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The Problem with Dating Apps · Sex Advice for Seniors Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Suzanne and you are listening to Sex Advice for Seniors.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And today I'm with someone who isn't,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: you're not quite a senior,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: but I just couldn't resist taking advantage of the opportunity to talk to you.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: to talk to a fascinating woman that I met about six months ago when I was visiting
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Las Palmas in the Grand Canaries.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm here again just for a week.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a whole story in itself that I'm not going to go into.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I'm here with Mo and who runs... Is it okay to say that you run a co-workspace?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Here, a new co-workspace in Las Palmas.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's 48.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 63.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we are both...
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: in the dating world, in the dating world.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we were both talking about the fact that the world of online dating now,
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's no secret,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: has become a big bloody challenge.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, welcome to our little corner of the universe.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: How's things going for you then in that online dating world?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me, first of all.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'm not that senior, but I can tell you stories you will not believe.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Online dating world.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: You remember when we met for the first time that I told you that I'm over it?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you did.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: It sucks.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: The point is nature has its calling and I'm not talking about the loo, I'm talking about the rest.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm finally back on one of those dating platforms and I regret it so much, but still I'm there.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, let's talk.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my...
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: My desire to meet someone combined with what I see is the problem with dating apps
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: has led me to take a different route than most,
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: which most people think I'm nuts,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: but essentially
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've been chucked off quite a few of these dating apps.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know why, to be honest.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was trying to promote a singing gig or something I did.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway,
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I decided what I was going to do was actually just ignore this sort of dating
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: aspect and just go for this sex aspect.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, mostly I have my emotional needs met by my best friend who happens to be male.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of my requirements for a relationship are kind of being met by a guy who
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: my friends call my platonic marriage partner,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've wanted to have sex.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I go on these really old swinging sites that, I mean, they're so old.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't been updated since like 1996.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: They've got the worst interface.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really do, they don't do swiping.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's none of that stuff.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: do you remember back in the old days of dating,
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: you had to read profiles because there was no swiping situation,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And for me,
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: the swiping is problematic because it's so quick and you don't really get the
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: flavor of the person.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, for me, where the problem really starts.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: swiping,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: in a picture you see,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: hopefully at least,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: the best moment of a person willing to share with the outside world.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: So they try to look good and some try too hard.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's even worse.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about filters, shouldn't we?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course, filters.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So if you think women are using those filters to learn, you are so wrong.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: I see pictures of men where I say,
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: okay,
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: guy,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: there where the blur is was supposed to be a nose,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm certain.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it isn't fun.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's really not fun to see these faces because if you do not age well,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: okay,
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: this happens,
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: but reality will tell anyway when you meet finally.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: But this is the next point.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: To get to meet someone is already a challenge.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there are definitely people who are already in relationships who are just using
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: these platforms to create some sort of a connection with a person and literally all
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: they want to do is text.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm very familiar with that.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also familiar with just saying to people after one or two exchanges, that's it for me.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't I won't because I can I firstly you get the dopamine hit, right?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: When you see someone who's attractive, whether or not they really look like that is one thing.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But then, of course, they respond to you.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: You get that little dopamine hit.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, this could be good.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So then you're going back and forth like a tennis match.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, you just start getting addicted to this response pattern, which for me is like...
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: really not healthy because once I get into a situation where I'm waiting for these
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: texts to come through,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know that that's not good for me.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: because you're relying on it and put your effort into this instead of into the
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: right person in a real world.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, no.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: What bothers me the most, honestly, is that guys...
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: if they are guys, I'm certain, text you.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And assuming by pictures they see, consider to text you in a specific way.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I switched pictures to look less needy.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: I would say it like this.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: What does a needy picture look like?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: I can't describe a needy picture.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, people thought I must be needy because since I took this picture off, I haven't received
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: at least this bottom line, uh, low level anymore.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe, um, well, I had a bikini picture.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we're talking the cleavage picture.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: But it was, it was a nice one.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: It was a nice one.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't revealing or something.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was just a nice bikini picture.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: because then we have the next point buying the cat in the sack as the German saying
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: means I do not buy anything I haven't seen before.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: So, um,
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Stating in my profile, please do not lie about your age.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: Please be single.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: And also, please only use recent pictures not older than half a year.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: So do I. And in the end, I'm 48.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: I look a bit younger, at least everybody tells me.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if they want to be nice.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: But in the end...
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: I am quite open about my age.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't use filters and I don't hide my so-called flaws,
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: which are no flaws in my opinion,
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: because they talk about my life and my body is my body.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: But it led to people saying stuff like, hey, hello.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: na, what are you looking for?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, it was in German, so na, is introduced in Germany.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to be creative and was typing something like,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking for,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you know Kinder Schokolade.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Surprise eggs.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: So we have had a very old commercial where you had three things coming.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: So something exciting, something to play with, and chocolate.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Three things at one.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this commercial.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know what it was in English, but in German it was quite famous.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I tried this thing, being creative.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, and whilst I was texting it, he just wrote, a new dick to ride, baby.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, okay, fuck you.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, God.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry for swearing, but honestly, this level.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: In reality, nobody would use that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you do not go to a stranger and say...
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Are you looking for an addict to write, baby?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: You don't do that.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I get that on my Facebook page as well.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always surprised that when men are...
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Leaving me comments that are just, you know, they're just crude, right?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're just really crude.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think, I don't know what your expectation is.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas, you know, like on the flip side, right?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: A swinging site, where you go on a swinging site to have sex, like you expect...
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: to talk about sexual things, okay?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's why you're there.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're there to talk about sexual things.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Generally,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: when you're talking about sexual things,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: you might talk about the kind of fantasies that you have,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: what you're interested in,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: and inevitably there's a dick pic because that is also partly why you're there.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: is to go, nice dick, not nice dick.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the thing is that the dick pic is usually the only pic on those sites.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have to ask for the face pic,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: which cracks me up because I just think to myself,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what woman,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: except if you're in like a glory hole,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: is just there to just like be with a dick on its own.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like the dick needs to come with somebody.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So as much as I like and appreciate a man's penis and I can look at it and go,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: that is an attractive penis.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Of course,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: penises can be photographed in all sorts of angles I've discovered,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: which make them appear much larger than they actually are.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Why a penis picture without something to compare to?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you do this?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: It could be a micropenis, which is not a shame, but then you have to be fair and honest.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Although you do get...
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would say generally on these sites,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: the level of honesty is much higher because the reason why you're there is different.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are on a dating site and seeking a relationship,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: which is a very complex thing in my,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: in my view,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of stuff that goes into a relationship.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: You, you,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You may have a tendency to lie about all sorts of stuff that you don't want the
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: other person to find out till much later.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you meet somebody for sex and they rock up, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they say, look, I really like oral sex.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I really like oral sex and I really I don't live too far from you and I'm free.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm only really available on weekends because I've got a job where I where I'm
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: traveling a lot or whatever.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, I'm married, but I don't ever have sex with my partner.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just looking for somebody for that and everything.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can make a judgment at that point and you can just say,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: that works for me or that doesn't work for me.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: if that person,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: which has happened to me a number of times,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: turns up,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: they're generally looking like their picture.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the picture is always a little bit sketchy, but generally they look like their picture.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not, you know, it's sex, so...
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: If they are five years older, whatever, I'm not overly bothered, too bothered about that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they turn up and we sit down and we have a drink to start with and we have a
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: laugh and it's all,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: it's just kind of fun.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think, okay, right, let's have sex.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I go and have sex with them.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's really fun too.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Then generally I'm in a place where I'm like, I'd like to see you again.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they feel that,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: too,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: because they just gotten exactly what they came for,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: which is somebody nice,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: somebody fun and somebody had with whom they had sex.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, at that point, you may discover that, yeah, you you might have deeper feelings for that person.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: That has had definitely happened to me.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I know many circumstances where actually people have gotten together from
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: swinging sites,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: loads of circumstances,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: because it's honesty.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's more honesty.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I always say to people, those dating sites are just, I don't even know how you deal with them.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're just so full of non-honest shit.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: um i get asked a lot of stuff which is fair i um you can't see me mostly at least
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: uh i'm a mixed person i'm a german caribbean mix i have an undercut i have a lot of
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: tattoos i wear piercings um but i'm also in a business where um
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: People are very judgmental.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a business consultant in my main job for international companies.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: So what happens is revealing a lot of tattoos, wearing piercings is, is it in English stigmatizing?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: So then I look a bit younger than I am supposed to with my age or within my age range.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens in the end is I'm sort of a trophy.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: or fetishized,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would say as well,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: which I get as an older woman,
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: like lots of young men who just have a fantasy about being with an older woman.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: with you,
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: there's probably some aspect of fetishization around the way you look,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: which is putting you on some sort of different level of
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: I have no problem with fetish at all when I want fetish.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: But then I am using a platform.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: I look fantastic in latex.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: I have no trouble wearing it.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then I am presenting me on this land.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: But what happens automatically that people assume without this on official dating
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: platforms where I do not state anything like this,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: that they can lick my boobs,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: that I will...
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: God.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: give them the doggy treatment and everything where i say guys honestly um therefore
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: you need a special service and this has a price usually for people because they
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: provide a service that is not common yeah i consider that you might need this
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: service but i'm not providing it yeah so
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: People have needs and no matter what age and assuming throwing things out to people
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: is on dating platforms something that annoys me a lot.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: And this is why I do not like texting.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is why I prefer getting into communication directly personally because the wipe is missing.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Swiping someone from the left to the right is something that is sort of a game.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's one of the key problems now with all of the dating apps is that
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: they've tried to gamify the whole thing and it's not a game.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing is people like yourself
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: everyone that does this, you're investing a certain amount of hope in it, right?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: So from the very first interaction, there is an emotional response, which is, I am hopeful.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want, you know, I'm here to genuinely meet someone.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this constant hope, disappointment,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hope,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: disappointment,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: hope,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: disappointment,
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: to the point where you think,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I can't deal with the disappointment anymore.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like on a roller coaster here with feeling like potentially this person has some
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: It could be interesting.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: they're 10 years older than they really said they were,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: or their picture is old,
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: or they're married,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: or they're this.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the level of deception now has become so commonplace.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that people are just choosing to just remove themselves from this whole ecosystem.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're like, fuck this.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a person.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have feelings.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have needs.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have wants.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this is not delivering anything to me that's fulfilling any of my needs or any of my wants.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just leading to ultimately a huge amount of disappointment,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: which frankly is like not really the emotion that you want to be carrying around
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: with you.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, seeing a picture...
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: doesn't tell you anything about a person.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: A person is so much more complex and I like to hear the voice.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: I like to see the movement.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: I like to... Well, there can be a sentence or a slight...
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Send the person just waving over that attracts me intelligence.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can write with chat GPT and you can detect it quite quickly.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: But speaking and being capable of following different sentences and flaws you think
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: in the same directions is so much more attractive.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you cannot do this on a dating app.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: You only can hope that you meet someone that suits optically your needs and you as well.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: And suits in this way because dating apps are crap.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: They bring you in the mood to consider that you are not good enough.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Only good looking people get a chance because no one is looking behind the picture.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if someone does, then you still cannot be certain this is a real person.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the other thing.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just getting worse and worse with AI now.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And AI is a good thing because in this way to say no to this.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: I was chatting to so many bots, you have no clue.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Good looking guys, but I could see in the background, okay, China has made a mistake.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I'm certain we do not have those pitufes in Espanol, in English, I'm not sure.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Where you plug in your... Oh, the sockets.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Socket, thank you.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is the word.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Socket.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: looks different yes oh my god it's not a european socket you are not here located
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: and if you have this socket in several pictures i can tell that you are not here
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: you are lying yeah trust me so um oh you're too good looking because you look like
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: from a catalogue so just take the picture i give you this advice and run it through
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: google
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the thing I was going to say.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always for like practical solutions to problems because that's my nature is like,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: like you,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a problem solver,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So two problem solvers together, I always think, okay, this is like a massive problem.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Millions of people are wandering around the earth,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: lonely,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: wanting companionship,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: wanting to find friends.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: some connection.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: These apps are not delivering for anybody or certainly for a very small percentage
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: of the people that use them.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, there's built-in algorithms, right, and built-in things to try and get you to go back.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So as we know,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: If if you go on a date and you have a nice time and then you you go back on the app
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: because you want to read what they say,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: because,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've done that.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was with a guy I did meet on Tinder for quite a number of years.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I went back on the app after we'd gone on our first date because I was like,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: that went really well.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I really like that guy.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we really hit it off.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I saw that he.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: he was on as well, or he, you know, it just, so of course then I thought, oh, maybe he didn't like that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe he's, maybe he's back on again, swiping again to see who else is out there.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not healthy.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I just like all of this.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: When were they last seen?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I need to know that?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to know that.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: that's just building in this,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: this feeling of low self-esteem,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: maybe I wasn't good enough.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's why they're back on again.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: They were last seen six hours ago.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: What were they doing?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all of that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a bunch of stuff that doesn't work.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we've gotten...
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been doing online dating on and off since 2001.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you back in 2000,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: back then there were so few people using online dating that we were freaks.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the good news about being freaks where we were all freaks together.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still friends with most of the people I met back then because there were so few
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: people on any of these.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: There was only, there was very few dating sites anyway.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Did you remember hot or not?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, of course.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was one of my first ones.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's really long time ago.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: But you got into communication online.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: You could go into a chat room.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: There was no mobile phone.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: You were on your computer and you could directly chat.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was some kind of exciting.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah, yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, it's sort of what you can do on the other platforms right now.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: But the swiping situation...
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: This causes so much damage to people.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like next, next.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you made a really good point is that Hot or Not was on desktop, right?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: We had to sit on our computers.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: We had to actually type real messages.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was quite difficult to move from one to the other.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was slow.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And all of that required quite a lot of commitment, right?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's no commitment required.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: But there was also the group chat where you had the opportunity to see what the
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: person was also texting to other people and you got to know something of the person,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: the style at least,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: how the person writes and things maybe,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: and to whom the person is also speaking.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: But in the end, it's not healthy.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: I would like to go out in the street sometimes, but nobody...
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I do it from time to time, being proactive and talk to someone.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Since I moved here to Gran Canaria, it's even less.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I come from Berlin.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And, well, I have the guts to go to a guy and say, hello, you know what?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: I like you.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Here in the supermarket, would you like to have a coffee?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: And most of them say yes, but they are already in a relationship or whatever.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: But I miss this.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: The interaction.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we do supermarket singles nights?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: I am the host of Las Palmas Single Group.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Who are you?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I am.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: The meeting is at 7.30 tonight,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: but it's off-season,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: so there are not too many people participating right now.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I do exactly this.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: I create real single meetups where real single gonna meet.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: I try to get people together again and do stuff together.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I noticed that the singles nights that exist are traditionally aimed at people under 35.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And once you get, you know, over 35, it becomes more difficult.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And once you get over 50, it's nearly impossible.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, one of the things people have asked me is, would I host a singles event?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've gotten so many people that just said,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: just,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: you've got all these followers now,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: just go and host a singles event.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I am actually currently looking for a venue to do that in because with a little
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: talk beforehand,
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: because I do think you're right.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: People want to
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: People want to meet people in real life.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: They just do.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: and everybody's looking at these dating apps as a shortcut,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: but the number of people that write to me and tell me that it's just not working
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: for them at all.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I always encourage them, like go on meetup, you know, like go and find a dance class.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's the worst for me, but yes, I try to.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: My friend loves bachata,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: so she meets people at bachata,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: and I've gone to some dance classes previously.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've not met anyone,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: they are places where people can meet and just real,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: try and find like real life events,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: things where you're sharing interests,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: because I think that these...
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to be faster.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, people in the beginning, when they really want to fuck you, tell you anything you want to hear.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to look behind the facade, you need to be patient.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are really interested in dating someone for real and not just to get laid,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: then take your time.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because you can detect those people quite quick.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you are not willing to sleep with them directly after two days,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: they are off because it's too much effort.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: Then the hunting is over because they are too hungry and the prey isn't interesting anymore.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: And they know too much about the prey because the fantasy is something behind it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: So when the prey starts thinking and talking mostly.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And do you agree with the or do you subscribe to the belief that you'll only text
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: people for a certain amount of time and then you have to meet them face to face?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's for me, that's that's crucial.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm not going to do more than like two days of this without actually meeting them.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: I do not.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: have a date rule after two days or something but what i say is directly you know
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: what let's just meet i am a person that prefers reality over typing because yeah my
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: fantasy is very creative and i would like to get to know you yeah yeah you can not
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: succeed against my fantasy version of yourself
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that helps quite well.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone understands.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then they are also willing to date.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Or they already know that they are fake and then they don't want to.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then I am good because I didn't waste too much time.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Emotional energy goes wherever you go.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And look,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: the bottom line is,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: and I've spoken about it on podcasts before,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: is that there are still people scamming out there.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: There are still people trying to rip you off, get money off you.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: The guy that I did meet off Tinder went through a terrible... But
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: but rather predictable circumstance where he engaged with this woman.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: She was way too beautiful.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was a quirky looking guy.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't traditionally handsome, but he was quite quirky looking, really quite dry sensitive humor.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway, you know, a few years before me, he met some woman in brackets who,
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: online she's you know feeding his all his fantasies right exactly he's telling her
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: all his fantasies she's just acknowledging all of them oh yes oh yes oh yes oh yes
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: until the would you send me the money for this travel travel right and he was like
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: what and she went you know i'd really love to come and see you but i can't afford
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: it and la la la and then he realized he was being scammed
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: And this happens quite often.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: A friend of mine was running a TV show where they provided support for those really
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: loving partners to travel to them,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: on the other hand.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: So the TV program...
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: supported them to fly to Kenya,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: for example,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: or to Ghana,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: or wherever it was,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: or to Honolulu to meet their so-called big names.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this was a fake?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they could figure out themselves.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: It was called...
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: big true love question mark or something like that in german i can't translate it
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: yeah yeah it was a success show and a lot of people were shattered because they
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: really really believed into this law oh it's awful i mean it is awful especially
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know if you've been a bone for a long time and suddenly this too good to be
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: true person rocks up and you know
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: let's face it, a lot of older people, you know, we're talking people in their 60s, 70s and above.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: For them, this new world of online dating is so unfamiliar to them.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they're prime targets for a lot of these people because they're very susceptible.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: They are investing all this hope.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I see them all the time just telling me, oh, this beautiful, beautiful woman is...
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Look, let's get honest here about this.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's 25.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's 25.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: She lives in the Ukraine or Russia or wherever.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: She is in need.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: You do not think with your brain.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: So let's keep it just like this.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: On the other hand, ladies, please don't get this wrong.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: It works in the other direction as well.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: So there are a lot of guys who are hoping to move.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: get saved by a wealthy white person definitely i do not want to state any countries
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: nor anything but as a mixed person myself i have knowledge into both directions and
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: i can tell you it's happening everywhere and one other thing um it's not bad to be
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: classy
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely nothing wrong with having resistances.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely fine to be suspicious.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you can say this because you're not in need.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: You don't need this.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: You want it maybe, but you don't need it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think some people...
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: just get abused because they think it's the last chance.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: the bottom line is it's something that you,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: it's like the more hope you invest in it,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: the more likely you are to be disappointed.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go into it with a sense of fun,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: if you think I might meet someone,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: they might be somebody I really like and want to have a relationship with.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: It might just be someone who turns into a friend.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: They might be somebody that you just go out for a coffee with and think,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really ever want to see this person again.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: But whatever happens, you've gotten out of your home.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: You've met someone new.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: You've got some new story to share with your friends.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good story.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bad story.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tragic story, whatever story it is.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a story.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And all we can do is our life is a collection of stories.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I think anyway.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just one more story to add to the multitude of stories that you have going on in your life.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as you look at it like that, for me, the risk of being disappointed is very low.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we all want to save ourselves lots and lots of disappointment.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all I'll say on it because we usually do this for 30 minutes.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: I shut up at this point.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's been wonderful.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And don't give up on love.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't give up on love.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: It is out there for everybody.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It just might not be out there on Tinder.