Latest / Flyer Magazine / How to Fly a Vulcan - The FLYER Show - 11th December

Transcript

How to Fly a Vulcan - The FLYER Show - 11th December · Flyer Magazine

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Good evening, hello and welcome to the Flyer Show.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm MX, I'm Anna Belka, and I'm Dave Corderwick.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_04: And uh what a week it is uh for us, because we've got an amazing guest.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's Bill Perrins, uh, who will be telling us how to fly the remarkable Vulcan bomber.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Bill has had an amazing career flying Vulcans operationally for the RMF, uh, as well as later in life, uh obviously on the display scene.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Bill also survived amid a collision in the tornado, has flown for a number of airlines, and has displayed a whole array of warbirds.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_04: So we're really looking forward to that.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, plus, we've got news and we'll be finding out what Delta Winged aircraft the team have in their fantasy hangars.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm looking forward to going head to head uh with you guys on that.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_04: But first uh we need to check out our Sky Demon top tip, and uh we couldn't do what we do without the support of Sky Demon, so thank you, Sky Demon.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_04: And uh this week's top tip is all about airspace above, and it's from Rob.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, I'm Rob from Sky Demon, and here's another top tip.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: One of the optional columns that can be enabled in your pilot log from the settings screen is Airspace Above.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: You'll see it here in the pilot's log as AA next to the minimum safe altitude column.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: This column is designed to tell you how much margin you have for climbing on each leg based on the lowest airspace above your planned level.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: In this simple route, I have all my legs planned at 1700 feet underneath Solent CTA.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Here in the virtual radar, we see my first leg practically has no ceiling.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Second and third legs I must stay below 2000 feet, and for the fourth leg, I must stay below 3,500.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: We can see these values clearly laid out in the pilot's log here in the airspace above column.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: If you plan to fly through some airspace, then airspace above will look for the next airspace above, just like it sounds.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: For example, if I raise the planned level of my fourth leg up to around 4,000 feet, we're now climbing up into the Solent CTA, and the new airspace above that is Portsmouth CTA, which starts at flight level 5-5.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Checking the pilot's log again shows the airspace above column has been updated accordingly.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: The column will be highlighted in red as a warning.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: For more information, check out our website www.skydeemon.ero.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: So airspace above.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: I mean it looks like a good way to avoid an infringement.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_06: Especially around Solent Airspace.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because that is chocolate block with airspace around there, isn't it?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I is it me or is Rob's boy's voice getting even deeper?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good voice, isn't it?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: It is.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_06: I think you must be doing a country and western uh singer impersonation.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_06: Do you think?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, shall we um see what the weather has in store for us this weekend and whether we'll be able to try out this airspace avoidance thing?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_04: I do yeah, let's see what Simon has to say.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Even all, hope you are well this evening.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have not got too bad a weekend ahead of us.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a look.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh the forecast for Friday.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can see here this line of rain.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is the remnants of an old front that's bringing some rain, some cloud across northern England, across parts of central southern England as we go through the course of Friday morning.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Could still get some moderate bursts tied up in that, so do be aware of it.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: But notice how during the course of the morning and into the afternoon, it slips eastwards, eventually getting into East Ang during the southeast during the afternoon.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So quite a murky end to the day there.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um some showers getting into the far west of Scotland.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: One or two of these are probably going to be turning out to be fairly heavy.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: But other areas actually not faring too bad.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So sort of southern Scotland, northwest England, Ireland, northern and western parts of Wales.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Probably with the afternoon, yes, it's a little bit murky through parts of northern England, the Midlands and Southern England, but it does become more fliable.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Based it's two to four thousand feet tops at about 10,000 feet, but certainly misty, murky and damp across East Angia and the southeast.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Saturday morning starts okay across many central and southern areas, perhaps some morning mispatches.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: They will clear away, and then it's a fine start to the day.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Rainbow getting into western Scotland, much of Ireland by the time we're getting towards midday, the wind's increasing as well.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Some outbreaks of rain by then into northwest England, and then through the afternoon, that rain wanting to spill east, but it's becoming quite heavy, as you can see there, across much of Scotland, apart from the far northeast, much of northwestern England, northern and western parts of Wales and Ireland, and bases less than a thousand feet, tops 15,000 feet.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Very windy as well, southwesterly gales, gust of 50 knots quite easily.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Gusting up to 40 or 50 knots across northeast England, too.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So non-verifiable there, despite there not being the rain, and probably breezer in the Midlands and southern England, but I think certainly these areas are going to be faring better, generally verifiable bases around 3 to 4,000 feet.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: The rain then goes eastwards overnight into Sunday, and for Sunday itself, we get more rain getting into Scotland, into northwest England, into Wales and into South West England as the morning turns into the afternoon.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: It then slows down, affecting much of Northern England, Wales, the Midlands, South West England for the afternoon.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Although, notice the far southeast probably is faring better, and it becomes brighter in Scotland and Ireland with the winds decreasing.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, the winds decrease everywhere as we get through the afternoon.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to select your time of flying very carefully into this weekend.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're getting ready for Christmas, it's not that far away, is it?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've announced my next aviation weather school online, my part one course, finished the last one of 2025 this week.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think uh many of you went away, uh having enjoyed that course.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the feedback's been excellent, so thank you for that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if you haven't been to weather school yet, this is your chance.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: On the consecutive Tuesday evenings of the 27th of January and the 3rd of February, between 6 30 pm and 9 pm, I will take you through the wondrous and mysterious world of weather.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll show you how you can predict weather windows five days in advance, I'll show you how you can more safely and more often, and build your confidence in finally understanding weather.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter whatever your experience of flying is from pre-PPL right the way through to commercial, I guarantee you will learn a heck of a lot on this course.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's well worth the money.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can book your place now by uh using the QR code there or going to weatherschool.co.uk.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, my weather books are available at weatherschool.co.uk as well.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Again, perfect gifts.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll leave you with that for now.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you do.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for watching.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great, have a safe weekend.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next week.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_06: Well, just uh reminder that uh Simon has all sorts of Christmas gifts available um from Weather School.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_06: So you go to his website, there's a link on the uh flyer website, go to weather school and uh you can buy someone a Christmas present to do with weather.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_06: Can you give the gift of the weather wizard?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Could I have a Simon for Christmas?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: That would be amazing.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: Do you get to dress him up in what shirt you wore?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's just gone pear-shaped straight away.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: Let's move on.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: Let's get on with the news.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Who's first?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: You are.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm first.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and this is um the news.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it was uh uh the news that uh 3D printed part in a British home bill uh caused an accident at Gloucester airport earlier this year.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um quite interestingly, this this accident, um uh no, it wasn't a fatality, uh, and the aircraft ended up uh resting in the uh instrument landing system at uh at Gloucester, um, so on the airfield.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: But um there's been quite a lot of interest around the world um on this because a lot of people are amazed that that somehow a 3D printed part, which was made from low temperature multi-plastic, ended up in an engine bay.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh it was uh the aircraft was a COSI Mark IV and had been modified, and that modification process had been documented by the LAA and approved.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: However, one part uh for on the intake wasn't disclosed, and that was this part that the um that uh was uh claimed to be purchased from uh um an air show overseas, uh ended up in the airplane, and um the owner pilot was making an approach to to Gloucester, uh put the power on, and um and no throttle response, and the actual intake had collapsed.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: There's a a photo in the AIB report that's quite surprising.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um I yeah, quite quite a surprise that one.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_06: Quite a surprise.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_06: We should say this was in an AIIB report which came out last week.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um so definitely worth worth reading.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um but yeah, very surprising how that's uh I've seen that in a number of um overseas news stories.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_06: So it's well I guess 3D printing is uh it's kind of like the future in many respects.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_06: Clearly the material choice.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: Material choice is important.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: I mean there's lots of people, there's lots of big manufacturers using 3D printing uh in uh in jet engines, but that's um that's like sintered metals and things like that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_06: I guess with a uh a an awkward to manufacture part, like a like an airbox, for instance, um then it's and 3D printing is the obvious choice.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's a it's a great choice, but you do need the right materials, or you 3D print and use that to make make the mould that you m you use other materials to fashion something.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_06: So it's the LAA having a bit of soul search over this?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: I I well no, because essentially the LAA is they they from reading the report they acted in good faith.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: They approved everything that was presented to themselves, uh to them in the mod application.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it's yeah, so you have to you have to wonder how this part ended up.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I I heard that the uh LAA inspectors have been asked to check aircraft under their care.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think yeah, there's it does raise an increasing awareness of 3D printed parts in aeroplanes.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's with the advent of 3D printers for any you know, for anyone's workshop now, the making complex shapes is is within our grasp.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: But just you just need to be careful about what materials.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: So um, yeah, but yeah, there's a real interesting report.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's uh there's a story on our website if you want to follow that up.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_06: That's right.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_06: So I've got the next story, and it's a quite a it's quite an in-depth story, so I may have to look at my notes every now and again.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_06: Hold on to your hat.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_06: Scottish Aero Club has compiled a briefing paper for the club members to help them understand what's happening with the airspace modernisation around Edinburgh Airport.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Edinburgh Airport was proposing to transition to what's called performance-based navigation.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_06: I'll come back and explain it in a second.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_06: But the club believes that this will create pipelining of airline traffic flows, uh, which will create a significant safety and operational hazard for general aviation aircraft.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, it's important to say the club does recognise the benefits of performance-based navigation, known as PBN, uh, because it uses satellite and other technologies to define flight paths based on accuracy, integrity, and performance requirements.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_06: So it involves less ATC, but uh it's a more efficient system.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_06: So there's all sorts of benefits: flight times, lower fuel consumption, lower emissions, less noise pollution, and it's apparently the most important thing for these guys increased airspace capacity.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_06: All worthwhile things.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_06: But the club says the current plan, the current the current circular controlled zone, the CTR, will change to a rectangular one and it would extend controlled airspace over well-used sites uh routes used by GA aircraft.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_06: There's one in particular, you know, it's a there Scottish Aero Club is based in Perth, which is north of Edinburgh.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_06: When they want to go south, they have to go somehow get through this chunk of airspace.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_06: Up till now, they've been going over the first or fourth from a place called Earl's Ferry to North Berwick.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_06: That's an established GA route.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_06: Um and they fly across at about 5,000 feet, which gives them uh plenty of if it should have should they have engine failure over water, they can glide clear, they can glide to land.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_06: Uh but the this new plan would restrict them to a lower height, 3,500, which I feel is not really enough.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_06: And also it will curtail their what you might call emergency escape routes with should the weather suddenly come in.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: And we're talking northeast of Scotland here, so uh the chances of bad weather is highly likely.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yep.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_06: So the the club has uh in fact they've come up with this.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_06: If we show it on the screen about now, they've come up with this heat map which is based on one member, yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_06: Uh his flying, and you can see how he starts off at um starts off and returns to Perth, comes down the uh the east side of of Edinburgh over this ferry route, this is from Earl's Ferry to uh North Berwick, and it's really used a lot, it's just one guy, you know.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_06: And so the uh the club is uh asking its members to respond to the consultation, which ends on the 26th of January, and they produce their heat maps from uh from Sky Demon.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, they produce a heat map showing their routes to to prove that this route is is important to them.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps Sky Demon could help here by giving a uh consolidated heat map.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: They probably could.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: And I it seems that uh Scottish Aero Club are pretty clued up about this, so perhaps they've made that approach already.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: Is there anything that we can do um to support their um their or fly backwards and forwards along that route multiple times?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I think it's not just Scottish Aero Club who can respond to the consultation.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, if you regularly fly up to uh to Scotland, particularly using that east coast route, then uh your heat maps may well show that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_06: And it may well be a route that you prefer to use.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um and fund fundamentally, evidence is always it's you can come up with uh with an emotional response, but actually fundamentally evidence every time.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_06: That's right.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but of course, we're uh this what's known as the airspace modernisation process.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_06: It's starting in Scotland, but it's gonna affect lots of other places.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_06: And I should imagine performance-based navigation is going to be used elsewhere as well.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_06: I mean it makes sense.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_06: Less fuel burn, less emissions.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but that but that should go on and should address all the needs of all the airspace user users universally.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 15:04
  unknown: Okay.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um so uh there's some news uh in the in the world of British Women Pilots Association.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: Apparently they've got a new chair.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: Annabelle, do you know anything about that?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: I might know a little bit, yes.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: Fill us in, because congratulations, you are the new chair of BWPA.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am, yes.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: What's I mean, you must be you must be going my agenda, is this?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously it's very early days.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: This happened on Sunday, so not even a week into the role.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, I have a few things that I'd like to focus on in the coming year.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So one of them is the members, because of course it's a member-based organization.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: We've got 500 members of the BWPA, not just in the UK, and we've got some around Europe, and I think we have one in Australia as well.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I want to make sure that they feel welcomed and it's inclusive and they get value for money out of their membership fee.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm also looking at what we do for our volunteers.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're entirely volunteer-led and run.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so all of the hours of work that we put in, we just do because we think that the the association is really important.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um you've you've just had um you've just had a big year of celebrating your 70th birthday as well, haven't you?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: We we have, yes, which has been fantastic.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a we have a lot of regional groups and they've been putting on events around the country with sort of picnics and parties and lunches.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of cake consumed.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: What a great combination.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um and then the third thing that I want to focus on over the next sort of year or so is partnerships.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I've already spoken to Simon at the LAA and I've had a chat with Air Ability, but um, yeah, I think there's there's a limited number of pilots, obviously.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're all pulling from um the same pool, we're all trying to do similar things.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really keen to try to tie the BWPA into other associations.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'd be really glad to hear from anybody that's interested in working together.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_04: You heard it here, and I guess people can get hold of you wearing your BWPA hat via the BWPA website.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, they can, or they can email me chairwoman at bwpa.co.uk.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, that's that's just I've got a couple of questions on that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_06: Why should everybody join join the BWPA?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_06: I mean if just a pilot.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_06: Why do you have to join the why does a woman pilot have to join the B BWPA?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well they don't have to, obviously, but a lot of women in aviation still do face a lot of challenges and discrimination.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've experienced myself uh three incidents just in the last year.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what the BWPA provides is a safe space where there's other women who have experienced similar things.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really nice way just to share those experiences and also to get some support for um one of the things that we find is that our members really enjoy is we have regional WhatsApp groups, which um because we can have very open discussions there about what we've experienced and um give each other support in that way.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's also other benefits, of course, so our annual scholarship scheme, uh which uh yes will be announcing our winners before Christmas from this year's scholarships.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: You have a lot of scholarships.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this year I think we had around 37ish.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, give or take.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so great.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_06: There we go.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_06: And I understand you don't have to be a woman to join the BWPA.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_06: You're accepting male members.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's my favourite phrase, that.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of male members.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks, DC.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: Just for that, you can have the next news story.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: I have gotten it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody that supports women in aviation can join the BWPA.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_06: So Gloucester Airport.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um, there are you know we all know that the Gloucester Airport saga has been going on for a while.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_06: The sale to uh an outside group known as uh Horizon Aero Group, uh, aviation group um has been going on.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_06: There's been due diligence uh for their potential purchase of the airport that was supposed to end on the 28th November, but it hasn't.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_06: It's still going on apparently.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_06: And last week, uh a local business website called Punchline uh published an article saying the investor behind the uh purchaser, the potential purchaser, yeah, has backed out.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_06: Oh and um or is in doubt anyway.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_06: Um the everyone's gone stum at the moment.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's not a surprise, isn't it?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_06: No, no, because I've been in touch with uh I've been in touch with both the sellers, Gloucestershire City Council and Cheltenham Town, Cheltenham Borough Council.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_06: They're both saying the due diligence process is still undergoing whatever due diligence.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I also sent an off an email off to Horizon.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um nothing.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_06: In Horizon's defence, they've always said they're not going to be interviewed until they've actually completed the uh the purchase.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_06: But no, so 30 million pounds is is what is at stake, which is particularly important to Gloucester City Council because they've just asked the government for a bailout of about 12 and a half billion uh to avoid bankruptcy.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_06: So there's a lot of pressure on the people involved.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um and you've got the next news story too.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, getting punished for this, aren't you?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_06: So um, what makes a great flying club?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, whatever it is, Limerick Flying Club in Ireland uh has it in space, and last week they won a top award as Aviation Company of the Year in Ireland's annual uh aviation industry awards.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, well done then.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, the club's based at uh Coonar Aerodrome, I think that's how you say it, two miles west of the city.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_06: They also won the General and Sport Aviation Award.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, you might think a club in the west coast of Ireland um would be a bit of a hill with the operation.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_04: A bit like what like some kind of father to something nice and generally easy guy.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_06: But no, the judges, viewers.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_06: The judges noted the club's data-driven performance monitoring.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_06: Wow! Wow, commitment to innovation and strong governance.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_06: They've got three new technology technology training on.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_06: They highlight judges highlighted how it's sustained investment in skills, community partnerships, and the promotion of best practice uh has reinforced its influence within Ireland's aviation ecosystem.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, this is a club that's doing doing everything right.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_06: Incredible.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's really good to hear because you know people often have a bit of a down.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, oh you know, flying clubs, not making enough effort.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: But we can't talk about Limerick Flying Club without having Well, we can, but I fear that you've written some kind of limerick.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a bit worried about what might rhyme with Limerick.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um There was a young pilot called Dick who learned how to fly at Limerick.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_06: He was airborne one day, early in May, when he spun, felt sick, and landed very quick.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: That didn't go where I thought it might.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, that was Thank goodness.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was still awful.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_04: But no, yes.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_04: Animal, fixes.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: Fixes with good news.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: The Robert Wilderberg 2026 calendar has arrived.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get one of these from the Goodwood Aerodrome Front Desk for the bargain price of£12.50.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: All proceeds from the calendar as usual go towards directly supporting the Robert Wildeberg Scholarship.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: As always, though, stock is limited.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So of course, if you want to grab some for Christmas presents, get yourself down to Goodwood quicker fast.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: Can you get them online as well, or is it a turn up at Goodwood only job?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it is a turn-up at Goodwood only.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: But that's good because it's fun to go to Goodwood and there's a lovely team there.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, and there's really good food if you can afford it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: There we go.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: $12.50, right?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: And that's yeah, that's money.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's a fantastic scholarship.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_04: Great cause.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, buy a Goodwood calendar.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or two.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: Or two or three.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: We should get one for the wall here.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Get one for me.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like one.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, uh, so joining us this week is our fabulous guest, uh Bill Perrins.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: Bill, thanks for coming along to the Flyer Studio.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, what do you think?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's pretty good, pretty rustic.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's very professional, and I'm glad to be here.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Well, brilliant.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for coming along.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_04: Bill uh has got a book coming out in spring.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Uh From Vulcan to Spitfire and back.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh because Bill is one of the one of one of a small group of people who has flown the Avro Vulcan, and we're gonna get into a lot of that a little bit later.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: But Bill, how did it all get started for you?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was a little boy and I liked aeroplanes.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Where I was born in Belfast, the place was buzzing with uh naval airplanes from the local naval air yard at Sydenham.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I my father flew air cadets with the air experience flight at RAF Aldergrove, which is now Belfast main airport.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was kind of gonna go that way.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time, Belfast was a bit of a dodgy place.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought, well, I'll get away from that and I'll aim at aviation.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: I put all of my effort into becoming a pilot.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was very fortunate I was granted an air cadet flying scholarship, did the bulk of a PPL on that, finished my PPL privately by paying my own way, working in a bakery, getting covered in flour and uh the like.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then I uh finished that, applied to join the Air Force, was very lucky, was accepted, went into the Air Force, learnt to fly courtesy of Her Majesty the Queen, and that's how I got going.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and and so you get into the Air Force, uh, and what what did you get your hands on?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: Various airplanes started unofficially on the Bulldog.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: The Navy decided to pre-teach us on the Bulldog, did that for a few hours, and then onto the Jet Provost Mark III, a military jet, fantastic.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then uh finished the wings course on that, was very privileged and got my wings awarded by Sir Douglas Bader.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: I could go into that at uh yeah, we were told we could invite VIP.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: So uh aim high.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: We did, and my I wanted to get Agnetha Folskog, the blonde lady from ABBA, so that was vetoed.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: And uh then somebody suggested Sir Douglas Bader.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: So we wrote to him at Shell and said, uh, please come and give us our wings.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I penned a little note at the end of it and said, if you can't make it, we'll ask Kenneth Moore instead, uh, who portrayed him in the famous black and white film Reach for the Sky.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, Sir Douglas came, presented the wings.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: We all puffed our chests out.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: That made us all feel really good about aviation and about the RAF.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: So we progressed onto the Jet Provice Mark V, which was a more powerful version, and then hop across to Northwest Wales to fly the Hawk, and we were on the first proper hawk course.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Tearing around at low level in that was fantastic.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: It went a lot quicker, therefore, it was a lot easier to get lost a lot further away and a lot quicker.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Finished that course down to RAF Brody in Southwest Wales, where we learned how to sort of master weaponry, dropping bombs, shooting rockets, firing guns, air-to-air combat, which was the best bit for me.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then I got posted onto the F4 Phantom.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: I fell off that course because I didn't make the grade on that.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: I was the first person to come through training on a non-sweatwing airplane prior to the Phantom.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's an excuse, but I probably wouldn't have hacked it anyway.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so I went off to fly the Vulcan for a few years, which was very, very interesting.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went off to become an instructor on uh jet provosts at Linton Ono's in Yorkshire.
• 26:43
  unknown: Okay.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh ultimately I wanted to have another crack at the fast jet system.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was lucky enough to get to fly the Tornado F3 for a number of years, based at RAF Leaming, still in North Yorkshire.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I think having read the book, you actually survived a mid-air collision, didn't you?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: In a tornado.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: I did.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: It was a little bit scary, but all of those involved, we got all professional at the last second and managed to save the day without jumping out of the airplane.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the airplane I was flying, we were lucky we managed to get into Newcastle Airport.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: And after thinking, oh my goodness, have we wiped two other people out with a collision?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, suddenly the other airplane turned up.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: So we all survived the day.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: And you got told, got you turned up at Newcastle and got told off for parking your jet in the wrong spot, didn't you?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Apparently we should have known that a particularly very important British Airways flight was going to park where I had decided to park.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I got a bit of a wigging from air traffic and sent off to the Naughty Step to uh shut down the airplane and then uh breathe a sigh of relief.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Went back to base, had a few beers, there was a board of inquiry.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm happy to take most of the rap for that accident.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: It shouldn't have happened.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a lot and I think about that every day because every day is a bonus after you've had a big incident like that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because that's for a lot of people, mid-air collision is a one-time only deal, isn't it?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there was no Hollywood music in the background, um, but it just happened.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it happened in an instant.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't see the other airplane.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: We were flying uh head to head, beak to beak, at a closing speed of about 900 knots.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: There was a big bang.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: The bloke in the back of my airplane said, What was that?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: I told him the truth, and we just got on with the job um of ensuring could the airplane fly.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: Miraculously it did.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we took it down.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen the photos that say that your bet your the belly of your airplane kind of got ripped open, didn't it?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: It did.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: The fin of the other airplane went under my bottom effectively, and had it gone a little bit an inch or so further into the body of the airframe, would have hit the liquid oxygen pot, and everything would have gone bang.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: So somebody was looking after me, and I'm very happy they were.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and what's not in the book actually is what happened to the people involved.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is everyone did everyone continue to fly or did yeah, yeah, which is really good?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think if I'd been through something like that, I might have questioned my choices.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you survived.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think everybody goes off to a quiet corner and reflects on these things.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: I know I did and still do, and I'm very happy that uh the way things turned out.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I have a huge degree of sympathy who have for people who have an incident in the air and kind of get put off flying a little bit.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was lucky, I I still like flying.
• 29:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so after RAS?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: I was unemployed for a short while, which I really enjoyed.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was able to go to the unemployment office and ask for the money, and they said, you can't have that until you fill the form in with three career choices.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I put television game show host, newsreader, airline pilot.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: And they went, Well, we haven't got any of those.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I told you that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so they gave me the money.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: So after three or four months, I got it, it was lucky, uh, got a job with Monarch Airlines, which was a super outfit to work for.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Flew the 757 for a while, and then uh a bunch of us get got made redundant because there was a slight downturn.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Luckily, we were all placed into air tours, flying in 757 and 767.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then after a while, I realized I liked long haul more than short haul, because we did a bit of each in air tours.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: I applied to and was lucky enough to get a job with Virgin Atlantic Airways, uh, flying the Jumbo Classic, the Jumbo 200, and I loved that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: The company was great, the people were great, the airplanes were great, and it was a very relaxed but professional outfit.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_04: I know in the in the book you talked about the fact that you found you found the jumbo classic cockpit a bit more analog, was you seem to like that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I like clockwork gauges.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like to be faced with an enormous great big Star Wars tube with information all over it.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: It gives you information overload.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: Personally, I like old-fashioned instruments that do what they say on the front.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm guessing, so it uh so at at Virgin flying the jumbo jet on your resume, you've got Vulcan.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_04: That sets you up for a great phone call, doesn't it?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: I guess it does.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, in the background for a number of years, the Vulcan to the Sky organization had been uh busy getting the Vulcan X8558 ready for flight.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: They flew it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: After a couple of seasons, they decided they needed another pilot.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I got a phone call, um, and they said, well, you know, we kind of need another display pilot, and the criteria are it has to be somebody with uh Vulcan experience, somebody who's current flying four jet aircraft.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's me again, somebody who's current at display flying.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: I was lucky enough to be flying Spitfires and the like around.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it kind of I was worn of one, maybe.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Would you come up to Bruntingthorpe in Leicestershire for a quick chat?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I flew up there in a chipmunk, yeah, met the team, and I at the end of the day, the boss man said to me, he took me into his little office and said, Would you be interested in coming on board?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I I'll think about it, thank you very much.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I went away and I thought about it for a few days, and I was torn because I was having the time of my life flying big piston aircraft, uh, which is just a privilege and lovely.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: But then again, it was a privilege to be asked to display the Vulcan.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I weighed it all up and I said, Yep, I'm gonna do that, because I can't do everything.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Can't fly Spitfires, the Vulcan, and maintain a full-time roster flying Jumbo 400.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I know, but it was quite it was tricky as a balance to get everything sorted out.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: But Virgin Atlantic were tremendous, yeah, as Donald Trump would say, uh, giving me as much time off and the right time off to fly various aeroplanes.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was lucky.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: So you get back in the Vulcan.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_04: What's what's that like?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it like Do you remember everything?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's no, people often say to me, does it come flooding back?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: No, it didn't even come ebbing back.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: The only bit I recognized was the control column because I'd seen one several years before uh at a party.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody had stolen one and it was on their mantelpiece.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's the only bit I remember.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: But we went through quite a lot of training on all the technical systems, uh, had a go at the Vulcan up at Wellsbourne Mountford.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: The team there very kindly let us use their Vulcan to practice the checks and start it up and taxi around the airfield.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: So we did that, and then I was ready for my first flight in the spring.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I was sitting in the Vulcan, right hand seat, yeah, waiting to go, but we didn't have the right paperwork because the authorities hadn't progressed the permit to fly completely, and we had to fly with a permit to fly.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And the CAA correctly mandated that we were not allowed to fly with any unserviceability.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we waited and we had a cut-off time at five o'clock to get airborne in the Vulcan from Waddington and take it down to Yoveton for their air day the following day.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: At five to five, somebody came scurling across the pan toward the airplane and shoved the bit of paper into the cockpit.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: We were allowed to fly.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: So off we went.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that was strange.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I had always been flying with a lightweight headset in big airplanes or a helmet in fighter-type aircraft such as the Spitfire.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: So to fly with a helmet and an oxygen mask uh in this reasonably big airplane was quite a change and quite a driftback down memory lane.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: And the Vulcan cockpit, because it's a big airplane, but it looks like the Vulcan, it's look, it's like the reverse TARDIS.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's tiny, isn't it?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: It looks like it looks like a it looks like a black hole, to be honest.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: It it is.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh you climb into this thing up a little skimpy ladder that's bolted onto the escape slide into what I would call a coal hole downstairs for three in the military days, you'd two navigators and an air electronics operator sat pointing rearwards on this set of little chairs, staring at all manner of instruments, and then there'd be another step up for the two pilots to squeeze through a narrow gap.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was a bit tricky way back, but even more tricky for me these days, because I've expanded slightly or have the seats got closer together.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and we got into the airplane, sat down, strapped in, and got it going, which all seemed to work.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: The airplane, as ever, was presented to us by the engineering team as a perfect machine.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: So we got the thing going, taxied out onto the runway.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: This is going to happen for real.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: So onto the runway, grabbed the throttles, and we stand them up to 80%, which is approximately throttles vertical.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: That just ensures the engines are spooling up at a correct rate and that the brakes are holding because there's a lot of power there ready to jump the brakes.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: And this is and during the process of getting the airplane ready for display, they took a lot of weight out of it, too, didn't they?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: So they did.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: They removed a lot of the military equipment, and that was between four and five tons weight.
• 36:15
  unknown: Wow.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Radar, bombing equipment, and two navigators.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: They were replaced by a little tiny GP.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: I heard navigators are really heavy.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, some of these we had an aircrew feeder we'd chomp our way through before going flying.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah, so there was a lot lighter, and we flew generally with very light fuel loads.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: So generally, it was a much lighter, much more sprightly airplane uh than I had encountered in military service.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, on to the runway.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just talk you through the takeoff.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we stand the brakes, stand the throttles up to 80% on the brakes.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, pause, pause, whoosh, full power, and you could feel the airplane nod as off it goes.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember thinking, my goodness, I don't remember it being quite as slippery as this.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, off it goes down the runway.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: Luckily, there was no major crosswind.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: So initially, one keeps straight using the wheel brakes, which are controlled by you have to put your thumb on a very fiddly little button at the base of the control column.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: Note it's a control column, not a steering wheel thing.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, the rudder came alive very quickly at about 60 knots.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then we keep straight, pointing down the runway, holding the control column forward to glue the airplane to the ground, and then at a nominal rotate speed of about 135 knots.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, sometimes in displays, we'd hold it on the ground a little bit more so the thing would spring into the air, into the air very rapidly.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, my first flight, we squeezed back, I squeezed back at about 135 knots, and the airplane did leap into the sky.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: Surprisingly sprightly for a big aeroplane.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Handles more like a small airplane.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_04: Really?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's people say fighter-like performance.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm never really sure what that means.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's what, 100 foot span?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just over 100 feet.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: 100 feet in all directions, 100 feet fore and aft, 100 feet across.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's a big tin triangle.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: So once in the air, uh to throttle back so we didn't expede the undercarriage, exceed the undercarriage limiting speed, and then point down to RAF Lynham and Wiltshire to practice a couple of circuits there.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: So we stayed below the cloud, which was probably uh legal.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: And we got down to Lynham where we did a couple of circuits just to get the hang of it, not actually touching down because it's not the longest runway in the world there.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then we set off down toward Uvalton in Somerset to pr to pre-position for their air day the following day.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: This was to be my first landing.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: No stress.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: No stress at all.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: No one's looking.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: No one's looking, but lots of people on the ground with cameras.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: I hadn't uh landed this airplane for 27 years.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: So the pressure was on.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Chap next to me gave me control halfway around the final turn.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't have an awful lot of fuel because we flew with light fuel loads, so we were light for displays.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: Also, it cost money to cart a load of fuel around the place.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: And there were several Hawker hunters in the circuit as well to position for the display.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: They were trying to get in.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: They were a bit sort of short of fuel.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we all had to kind of agree amongst ourselves who was going to go in first.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, the chap I was with gave me control halfway around the final turn.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I was cognizant that old-fashioned jet engines take a long time to spool up.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: So we set a high drag airbreak, which means you have to fly with a higher power setting to get a more instant response.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: I lined up on final approach, and I just thought at a two or three hundred feet, this ain't quite good enough.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: We may not be able to neatly arrive at the threshold of the runway.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I elected to go around full power.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was a good idea.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: It makes a heck of a noise.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um and if you look at YouTube, put in Yuvelton Vulcan display, go around, you will see us sheep directly underneath us.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: Some of them running away to the right, some of them running away to the left.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: Off we went, flew round the circuit, and then did a better approach to land.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I'd been one of those sheep.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, one of those sheep wasn't too happy because the Yeah, not that sheep.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: The story is one of those sheep had a slight heart attack or whatever sheep had.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_04: You're the only person to um to cause the death of a sheep with a Vulcan.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um they threatened to paint a sheep on the size of the fuselage.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: They were going to stencil a sheep on the side, as uh that will be uh a good epitaph.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: So we had a nice time uh flying the airplane that weekend.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I don't think I did the display because we we basically worked each other up to display standard.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was more of a servant on the first couple of flights, operating various things, like the undercarriage up and down and making sure that everything was tickety-boo.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_04: And what uh uh uh which other guys were you flying with?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we would fly with another pilot.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh on that occasion, it was with Martin Withers, the chief pilot.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: He's a great guy.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: They're all all nice people who like flying.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: And they're all aware that they're there to show the airplane off, not themselves.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Down the back of the airplane, we would generally have one air electronics operator, fancy name for a very technical engineer.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: Occasionally we would fly with uh a navigator down the back who would help during the weekend doing commentary and the like.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: But it was a a very nice professional bunch of people.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_04: So, in terms of flying the Vulcan, obviously you've you've you once you've got settled into it, was it something I mean, clearly something you really enjoyed?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it it was enjoyable.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: You had to keep your wits about you, because the thing had a lot of momentum.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and in in terms of maneuvering around an air display, we had a lot of limits, which we could quite easily bust in terms of engine fatigue, airframe fatigue.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: We were limited to 1.8 G.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: So to keep the airplane within a close uh proximity to the airfield, we had to keep the speed down, which meant flying at generally quite low powers.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Quite often we would have to sneak the power up a little bit, but put the air brake out so that we maintained a pretty instant throttle response.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a delicate balancing balancing act between speed, noise, because the public like the noise, who doesn't, and uh airframe and engine fatigue.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: I think people would be surprised at that, because it you always watch it you I I've watched a few Vulcan displays, and it just it just seems like it seems like a frenzy, but to hear you describe it as as like it's like a real gentle balancing act is quite a surprise.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh it it was quite rattly inside the airplane because we would do basically quite a lot of wingovers linked by a few straight and level fly paths and reasonably tight turns.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we would have to try to keep the speed low during the wingovers, which would I've got to use my little model here.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh would commence with trying to keep the speed back to about 160 knots, hopefully a little bit less than that.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: We would pitch up and then spiral round on the way up, keeping the speed at 160 knots or less, and then topping out at about 140 knots or less, and then let and that was quite dramatically, sometimes get up to about 135 degrees a bank.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: The airplane would have quite happily rolled, but no, we would commit to a nose down, and then as the nose comes through the horizon, put on a lot of power so that we.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Enough power to bottom out.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: So the airplane was flying quite slowly, and turning tight at 160 knots or less, the whole thing would be rattling and banging, and you'd think, my goodness, this is uh it's like being probably in the back of a recently filled bin lorry.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't see much out the front.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds terribly romantic.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: The airplane was um designed for two pilots, and then late on in the development, they said, sorry, it was designed for one pilot, right?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then they said, let's pump it up to two.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's quite a tight fit, tiny little windows.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: So while one air one uh pilot is flying, the other one's looking out the window to make sure we're going the right way, and we're not going to bust any crowd lines and the like.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_04: So in terms of um so in terms of flying the Vulcan, um, how does it compare to other aeroplanes you've flown?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's different.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh one has to use the rudder quite a lot.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's very, very powerful.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's very easy to overstress in terms of G.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um it just you just have to be quite careful at low level that you're you're not gonna bust any limits.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: In the air show arena, it's interesting because flying um a Spitfire or something, you know what you're gonna do next, and you just get on with it and make sure you're not gonna bust any limits.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: But with a big airplane with uh three or four people on board, you have to keep them briefed all the time what's coming up next, because they don't like sitting down the back of a big buffeting airplane, not entirely knowing what's going on in case something should go wrong and you have to abandon the airplane.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: So it's quite a bit of forethought in terms of positioning, uh, making sure you're not too far away from the crowd, making sure you're using the power correctly.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's very expensive every time we applied full power.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: We would cost out each airshow in terms of the number of full power applications we had per display.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: We knew we knew the crowd liked to hear the airplane at full power, uh, especially that Vulcan howl.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we worked out that the best howl was to start the power coming up when we were 90 degrees off the crowd.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: So if the camera is the crowd, at about this point, yeah, I'm gonna put the bank on, open up to full power, and then in a gentle descent, ideally, as the power bit, we'd produce a howl whilst pointing at the cloud crowd.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_04: I I love that you scientifically set out to find the best howl.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that that's what the airplane was uh was known for, largely was the noise, the noise uh and the vibration on the ground.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very aware that at a lot of air shows we set car alarms off going and poor dogs in cars would start doing uh sort of uh wolf-type noises.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: And the only time I've ever experienced that sort of noise and vibration was when I was fortunate enough to see a space shuttle launch once similar, the ground vibrates.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um so, in terms of um in terms of your time on the airplane, obviously it is, you know, it is an older piece of kit.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: Did you ever have any problems?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I did.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um the crew, the engineering crew always presented us with uh a perfectly serviceable airplane, as I said.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I could think of a couple of occasions.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: One en route to uh a coast uh an air show on the south coast somewhere from Doncaster, Finningley, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves Airport.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we were doing a practice over the recently disused RAF Cottysmore, and we had a hydraulic problem, which meant we needed to get the airplane on the ground.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: Ideally, landing into wind.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was a very, very windy day, so we elected to land at Coningsby, which had an into wind runway.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was a weekend.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: Conningsby were quite surprised when we chucked up and said, uh, hi, uh, we we'd like to come and land there, please, in our Vulcan.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, we arrived there, landed into wind, luckily came to a halt on the runway.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the hydraulics allowed us to bring the airplane gently to a halt uh using wheel brakes and aerodynamic braking, where we present a huge plan form to the wind to slow up and then lower the nose at 80 knots.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you got told off again.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we did, yeah, getting quite used to being told off.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_04: So you can't park there.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: Can't park there, can't park on my runway.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a chap came out and said, You're on my runway.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I am.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I think it's the Queen's runway.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think we both own this runway.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Right, we're going to drag this airplane off the runway using chains, because with this airfield's holding quick reaction alert, and we need the runway to launch the typhoons, which is fair enough.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and we had a chat, and it was I suggested that you know, can you maybe start the takeoff run on the typhoons should you need to launch them, you know, a little bit down the runway.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: And they sort of agreed, yeah, we can use the taxiway for that.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: But once they're airborne, we're going to drag your airplane off the runway using chains and tugs.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, I said, well, and it was going to be the end of that airframe.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: It would never be serviceable again.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we rang our engineers at uh Doncaster and they rushed down with the towing arm, towed us off the runway.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: The airplane was clear of the runway, so we no longer had that as a threat to our airplane's future.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm guessing you that the a tow bar for a Vulcan is not just uh chuck it in the car.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: No, and it looks like a huge big missile without a thing in the front that goes bang.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's a big, long, enormous green pole that looks like a jousting pole.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: And they attach it to the nose wheel and uh tug us around the airfield.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: So the airplane was broken for a couple of weeks, and then they, as they always did, the engineers managed to fix it and we were ready to rock again.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: But you had um reading the book, and I I'm not sure I grasped just how serious this was, but you had quite a serious problem.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're talking about the Scottish incident.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: Where we uh we were up in uh Ayr for the air show.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we'd just done a display at Port Rush, Northern Ireland, hopped across the Irish Sea, and then uh the chap in the other seat did a super display at uh Ayr near the golf course over the sea, and we then turned just to the north to land at Prestwick Airport.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: Everything was going hunky-dory.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: As I selected the undercarriage down, I heard the normal noises and flickering of lights.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then I noticed that the little red light that should have been green by this stage was staring at me from the undercarriage indicator, which meant that the two main wheels were down, but the undercarriage nose wheel leg was not locked down.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: It meant that it was either up, partly up, but it was definitely not locked down.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: Now we didn't have a huge amount of fuel because we like to fly at lightweights, and we had to make a decision.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if we have to abandon the airplane, well, the two pilots were quite lucky because we've got ejection seats and we can pop out the top and float merrily down to Earth.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: But on this particular flight, we had two air electronics operators in the back, one performing a check ride on the other.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: What a check ride this was to be.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: So we thought, well, if uh we can't get this undercarriage leg completely down, we may have to abandon the aircraft because it's not good to land with the nose wheel fully retracted or semi-retracted, because the airplane could fold up over itself on landing.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: So we uh tried everything we could to get the nose leg down by wiggling the airplane aggressively from side to side, uh, applying a little bit of G.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: And we did a fly through the airfield for air traffic to have a look, and they said, Well, we're not really sure.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: Luckily, on board, we have a periscope, so the electronics operator can use his submarine-style periscope, swiveling his hat around, having a look.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Is that down periscope?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: Down periscope.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, I should christen it the Perinscope.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh anyway, he looked out, and the undercarriage looked to be down to him because the periscope was in line fore and aft with the nose wheel leg.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: And we weren't entirely sure.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I made a quick radio call.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: Are there any military aircraft in the area can come up and have a look at us?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: And fortunately, there was a Battle of Britain Flight Memorial Spitfire uh doing his stuff at the air show.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: So he came and had a look at us, formated on us, and told us that the nose wheel leg was in fact not fully down.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we were in a bad place.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: If we decided to abandon, as I've already said, the two pilots would be okay.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: The air electronics operators would have had to slide out the bottom of the aircraft just ahead of the nose wheel leg, which may have been partly down or not partly down, and they'd have probably been splattered against the leg.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_03: So things were not looking good.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: We did have an option to ultimately blow the undercarriage down using air.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: That may have worked, but also it may not have worked, and left us in a predicament where there was no way we could get the undercarriage up to allow the rear occupants to jump out or fall out of the airplane.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: Then uh God was on our side or whatever is up there, and uh there was an enormous crashing and banging noise, uh, similar, I think, to the noise one may hear if you threw an enormous piano down the stairs in a huge building.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there was a rattle, a bit of banging, and then suddenly the red light stared at me and went green.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right, let's land.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: So the other chap did a lovely, smooth, tight final turn, a greaser of a landing, held the nose wheel up proudly until about 80 knots, then let it gently drop onto the runway, and we came to a halt by drifting off the runway onto a taxiway, which was at a suitable narrow tangent.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: We stopped, breathed a sigh of relief, parked up, went and said thank you to everybody who was involved, and then went to the hotel to sort of discuss what had happened.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that was that.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_03: The next day we flew the airplane back to base with the undercarriage locked down and sadly had to miss quite a few air shows.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: But that was that was you actually came quite close to throwing the aeroplane away, didn't you?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yep.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: And at that time, everybody's eyes were on vintage jets because it wasn't that long after the Shoreham tragedy.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we were very aware that the spotlight was on our community and we had to do things correctly.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: Luckily, everything worked out okay.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well that's I'm just I'm pleased that that that was the case.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um so um so finally, get us back on the ground.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: What's it so in the circuit and making a landing, what sort of numbers are you, what's the process?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you get yourself downwind with the undercarriage down and uh mid-drag air brake, which are big planks that stick out the top and the bottom of the wing.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: And when you say air brakes, I'm guessing on a Vulcan, they're like the size of a they're like the size of a small van, aren't they?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you effectively have a small park bench that pops out the bottom of the airplane and a bigger park bench at the top of each wing.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that allows us to slow up, get the undercarriage down, get in the realm of a higher power setting, so we've got more response, and then we just trundle downwind as per any airplane.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_03: Not particularly good view out the front.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're in the right-hand seat and you're doing a left-hand circuit, the chap in the left-hand seat would do your lookout for you effectively.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you would at the end of the downwind leg, um, as per any airplane, throttle back a little bit, slower the nose, set select an attitude that you're familiar with, and just get yourself round final.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: You need a lot of rudder work.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's quite often a lot of adverse ailer on your uh similar effect, and you'd have to sort of pedal your way around the final turn, line up with the runway, get stabilized by about 300 feet, good amount of power set, pointing straight down the runway, and then just drive it onto the ground with a slight check back.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, way back, we used to occasionally just deploy the big, huge brake chute in the air just before we touched down, so that you touch down, the brake chute would tug and the nose would drop and you'd come to a halt fairly quickly.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: We rarely used the brake chute because they reckon it cost 2,000 pounds every time we deployed it.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: You had to get a whole nation of people to pack the chute up again.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we would uh bring the airplane to within a uh a whisker of the of the ground and then check back a little bit.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: The ground effect, you would feel this enormous cushion of air under the airplane.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was nice and it was it could turn a terrible landing into quite a good landing, I found.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: That was my excuse.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we'd touch down and then gradually with both hands move the stick rearward and rearward, holding the nose off until you were feeling this is about it, at about 80 knots, and then you'd lower the nose gently and just nod the nose wheel onto the runway and gently bring the airplane to a halt.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_03: If you didn't use the brake chute or you didn't use aerodynamic braking, you still had wheel brakes.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, unlike most airplanes, we had three ways of stopping the airplane.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: What sort of speed on final?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh about 145 knots uh most of the way around final, dropping it off to about 135 just before you touch down.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a continuous turn, which I find easier.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it was more fun and it looked better.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_04: And did you ever, in terms of in in kind of getting to know the aeroplane, did you ever go out and fly any stalls or anything?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_04: What's its stall like?
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's a weird thing, I have to say.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_03: We we went up to a huge height where we would practice asymmetric flying, where we'd throttle back two engines and practice flying on two.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because if you're going to lose one engine, if one engine went bang, it would probably knacker the next engine too as well.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: So we would practice asymmetric and have a look at stalling, which was not a conventional stall.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: So you'd you'd raise the aircraft nose up until it felt like that.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: You felt as if your heels were resting on the horizon outside, throttle back, and then the airplane would rattle and bang, not comfortable, and it would sink like that through the sky.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: So the only real way to tell if you're going down or up was to look at the uh altimeter.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_03: If you're going down, the numbers would be unwinding rapidly.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: You could not tell by the visual attitude out the front.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: It would mush down whilst rattling and banging.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_04: What sort of sink rate?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: A lot.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_04: Off the scale.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was more than enough.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: So we learned from that.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to get into that situation.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: Luckily, the airplane had a huge amount of excess power at night weight.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: So if we ever got down to tricky situations, you could probably blast your way out of it.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_04: And you're uh I'm I I'm right in remembering that your last display was also your last Vulcan flight?
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh my last Vulcan flight was quite a complicated flight where we got airborne from Doncaster.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: It was to be a tour of the north of the country.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we flew up um the east coast via Sunderland, Newcastle, uh up into Scotland, off to the left, Edinburgh, down through the Lake District, and we had 14 different targets to fly over on that route.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: And they the Vulcan to the Sky organization published those targets, and uh at each turning point there were a lot of people.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was amazed at that.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: I thought there might be one or two people like waving a little flag, but no, there were lots and lots of people, very, very humbling.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: So the standout moment for me was we were coming heading north-south through the Lake District in the Windermere area, and we flew down between two huge hills past a place called Dunmail Rays, and in this distance, myself and the chap next to me, we could see all these flashes, and we just didn't know what it was.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: But what it was was a whole pile of enthusiasts, hundreds of them, taking photographs.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I have to say, that had a gave me a lump in my throat, and I thought people love this airplane, as we all did.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: So we flew through there, went uh low level over um the airfield in the in the Liverpool area where they built the airplane, went over a whole pile of other airfields, and then set off to Breton in uh Yorkshire, where we were to do a display in front of a small crowd, but mainly in front of a helicopter, which was off to one side with a whole pile of cameramen on board.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so we did an abbreviated display in poor light conditions, I must admit, at RAF Breeton, uh, and then set off 20 miles south to Doncaster, landed, got out of the airplane, covered in sweat, um, thought that was that, drove home and then went to work the next day.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: How I that must be must be amazing and an enormous come down.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we did, we could have continued for another two years, but the engineering organizations that uh effectively ran us, which was Rolls-Royce, Marshall's Aerospace, and BA systems, I think they all went into a huddle and went, do you know, old airplanes, it's getting a bit risky.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_03: Let's pull the plug on this.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I understand that.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we did have enough airframe and engine fatigue to continue for maybe two more years, but that was it.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_03: They wrapped it up probably at the right time, I think.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: But it was good to do.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_04: And occasionally there's there's talk, people go, oh, will it ever fly again?
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: Never say never.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's the way my mind works.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: Realistically, it probably will never fly again, but it's still there.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's a Vulcan, it's flyable.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: The engineers do a great job keeping it taken over.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, if the rules changed, and maybe with the advent of 3D printing, some bits that we don't have anymore could be put in the airplane.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, if you got a rich uh American came over and sponsored it, you never know.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um take it to America.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_04: That would be a great idea.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_04: That nearly happened.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: That was that was one of the options.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: Apparently, uh in the last season or two, the Russians wanted it to uh use in their development for the wing-in-ground effect aeroplanes.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it would scoot around over the Caspian Sea at not very high.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh also uh allegedly, I think it was Boeing wanted to use it for some development thing.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: Well they had a big uh blended blended wing, yeah.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_03: They did.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so there would have been uh a thing, you know, who who was going to fly it over across the Atlantic, I don't know.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_03: There'd have been lots of regulatory issues there.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_06: But you've got halfway and started to turn left.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh that sort of thing has crossed my mind in the past.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, we could have taken it to America and they would have written experimental on the side and it would probably still be flying today.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Bill, I think absolutely incredible to hear the story of Flying the Vulcan and from and some stories from your flying career.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you very much.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um I will remind people the fabulous I mean, isn't this such a glorious cover?
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a fantastic design, isn't it?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know, yeah.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah, obviously uh Vulcan from Vulcan to Spitfire and Back is out when is that out?
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: March the 30th.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it's available on Amazon.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_04: We'll put a link in the video description.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um and people and if if people want a sign copy, they could probably bump into you somewhere like Oaksey, can't they?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_04: You probably can.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_04: You're you're an active, you're still an active flyer, aren't you?
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_03: I am.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_03: I fly uh I'm in a syndicate around a chipmunks, my favourite airplane, always has been my favorite airplane, always will be.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: So uh may see some of your own chipmunk events, D Havilland events.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's it's big 80th birthday next year, isn't it?
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and uh I will be at that.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_03: So uh let's all get together at I bet you all have copies of the book.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we could probably arrange a flyer club get together reshining as well, couldn't we?
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's do that.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, thank you very much for bringing me along here.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: So flyer club news, free landings for December.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: You've still got a couple of weeks left to use that.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this month we have a massive month, actually.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pulled all the stops out for use of my Christmas present.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh,£73 worth of free landings, Carnarfon, uh, Tibbonham, Manchester Barton, Yatesbury, and 50% off at sundown.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um all of those, actually, I did some sums, use a spreadsheet, love a spreadsheet.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: That takes 2025 to a total of 607 pounds.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should ask actually.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: Flyer Club members, I'd love to know who's done the most.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: So who actually has saved the most money?
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: How much did you save?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um if you used, I mean, I was thinking about this, if you used all the Flyer Club landing vouchers, yes, uh, and you were like, well, I quite fancy uh like a snazzy headset, you will have saved enough money to go out and buy a headset.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh half a yeah, half a headset if you want to read it if actually one.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_04: It depends how snazzy you're feeling.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you will see how 2026 goes.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: You might be able to get the other half of the headset.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have already lined up for January.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Retford Gampston, there's a couple of others in the works as well.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, they'll get announced soon enough.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: Webinars.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of those.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, lots of webinars.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh DC's built a new page for those to make them a bit easier to find.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we have one coming up next Tuesday with Nigel Webb, which will be a bit of an update on airframe icing.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's yeah, Tuesday the 16th, usual time of seven.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um on catch up, of course, all of the all of the webinars.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think in total is about 30 over the last few years.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: Recent highlights are our very own Ed Hicks talking about his air-to-air photography secrets.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: We had Dr.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: Frank Vurton on lifestyle changes to keep you flying.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: We've got ones on piston engine icing.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Green is of course doing giving his forced landing advice.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is a golden one, that's good.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really good.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, lots of good stuff in the seminars, in the um in the webinars archive.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_04: So very good.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_04: It must be time for.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so fancy hanger this week, uh, in honor of the fact that we've uh we've had the fabulous Bill Perrens on talking about flying the Vulcan.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_04: It could only be um Vulcans for our fancy hanger, it could only be Delta Aircraft for our fancy hangers.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: And there's not the usual choices here.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think I'm right in saying who's gonna go first?
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's me.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you?
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is me.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_04: Government Annabelle, hit us up with your Delta Desire.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hit us up.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: Ed's trying to be young.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_04: I know it doesn't work.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have picked the R2175.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ruhr.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: I said to Ed earlier, how do I pronounce this?
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he told me, and I've gone with the opposite of what he said, because I thought that was safe.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's very rude.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_04: My pronunciation is always fantastic.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's that little aircraft that you can never say?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the British one called an Auster.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oster.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well done.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, played you.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the Ruhr, this is an adorable two-seat GA Delta with side-by-side seating, a composite structure, unfolding wings and tail.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like something out of the Jetsons.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: It does, isn't it?
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you could, in theory, park this in your garage.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the requirement to limit the span and keep the loads within limits were what led to it being a delta in the first place.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: So this was designed in the early 70s by Rohr as a direct competitor to Cessna.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: Umly two flying prototypes were ever completed, and depending on which source you read, um, logged around 120 hours of flying time, which um it's not a huge amount, but it was enough to prove the concept works.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think Cessna was concerned?
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think at any time, you know, in the competitiveness department, they went, there's a guy who's challenging us with a um with a delta, and people like, don't care.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this was powered by a Lacoming derived engine uh that drove a ducted fan.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's not a lot of information around on this, but um generally sources are suggesting that produced around 150 horsepower at 4,400 RPM.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I couldn't find any credible performance data, but I did see one source mentioning a climb rate of 1,280 feet per minute.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_04: For something that goes on the road, I think the important question is: was it a good car?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really sexy car.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um compared with other GA aircraft of the time, it was a really clever design with a composite construction, shrouded propeller, futuristic lines, and foldy uppy wings and tail.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I love a foldy wing.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um sadly, uh Rurger onto financial difficulties with other projects.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the two was cancelled.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: Both prototypes were destroyed, which is such a waste.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a niche fan base online for this, and that has increased by one because I would love one of these in my hangar.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's a good choice.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_04: I like it.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_04: And that is, I always think the fancy hanger is all about do you do you have amazing airplanes where people walk in and it stops them in their tracks?
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_04: And that is one of those.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, like I said, proper Jetsons.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_04: Dave.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I was tempted by the Saab uh Vigan.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love a Saab.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_06: Because if you can have two one Delta wing, why not have two?
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_06: It's uh if you look at the profile of a Saab Wigan, it's got one set as a canard at the front and one as a main wing.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_06: And the reason it did this is so that it could use Sweden's system of 500 meter runways that um also known as motorways, as well.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Also known as motorways, yes.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_06: However, I decided it was too impractical.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_06: Um so I looked around and I discovered I remember that the Rogalo wing aircraft is a sort of delta wing.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_06: It is.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, um it's a self-inflated delta wing, in fact, developed by a chap called Francis, uh Francis Rogalo, an engineer at NASA.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_06: Um, it was considered to land the Gemini uh space capsule instead of parachutes because you could obviously control it.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because you could steer where it goes.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_06: For various reasons, it didn't happen.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_06: They went for parachutes, probably for simplicity reasons, but it did go into the world of hang gliding and microlites, flex wing microlites.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_06: And I would go for a PM quick R flexwing microlyte because it's the most high-performing flex wing microlight you can get.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_06: It's got a really um high-tech uh wing.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's a delta.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_06: It's a delta, yes, but it it's it's it's it's a smaller wing than most most, but it has also got you can adjust, self-adjust according to load.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_06: And uh so you can also also the aerodynamics as you fly.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_06: And it was used by uh the British team at the uh Dubai World Games a few years ago.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_06: And they were really successful, weren't they?
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_06: Well, one, two, three, four, five, uh one, two, three, four, six, and eight.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_06: They they walked away with the whole thing.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_06: Um to this advanced smaller advanced wing, but it's also powered by a hundred horsepower Rotex 912, which uh pushes it along at decent rates.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_04: Very good.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well that just leaves me.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_04: And as a home builder, there's only one true choice of Delta aircraft, and that's the Dyke Delta from the 1960s.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_04: I know it's a bit love it or hate it, but from a lot of angles, it does, it is quite a looker.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it's a four-seater.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_04: No, stop it.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_04: We're checking it.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_04: Is that a lead?
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_04: A four-seater wings can be folded so that you can tow it home for storage, and they hinge up to lie flat on top of the fuselage, one on top of the other.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_04: I know, yeah, it's like a dance.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um designer John Dyke said he was inspired by Alexander Lippish, um, who designed uh the LP6 glider and later the Convey L uh F102 Delta Dagger.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it explains the design then, doesn't it?
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_04: It does.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_04: Very delta-ish.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, for research into his proposed layout, Dyke actually made models and mounted them on the front of his car.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_04: So it's almost like it's like automotive uh delta jousting, maybe could have been in his neighborhood.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, so he drove around aerodynamically testing models on the front of the car, also flew some radio controlled aeroplanes.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um he created his JD1 Delta, uh, which flew in July 1962.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, that was all going great till he was welding on it in the garage at home.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_04: The garage.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_04: In the garage.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_04: In the garage.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um anyway, JD1 caught fire, turned into ash.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_04: From those ashes, he created the JD2, which is the dike delta that everyone knows and loves.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_04: There's always been one or two of them at EAA Oshkosh.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_04: And they are the they're they are a stop you in the tracks aeroplane, not because they're ugly, but because they are beautiful and intriguing.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Ed.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um cruise 150 knots, uh, range 760 nautical miles, approach speed is 90 knots, which is a bit hot, um, as it stalls at 60 knots.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, fun fact about the Delt Diter.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_04: Hello and it enables me to use the word interesting.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Pierre Robin actually liked the Delt Diter.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_04: Dyke Delta.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh liked the Dyke Delta and got the plans.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_04: And for a time it looked like Roban might actually make a Dyke Delta inspired light aeroplane.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_04: And they actually made a version, took it to the Paris Air show.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that airplane still exists today, an enthusiast owns it.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it wasn't intriguing enough for Roban to go, you know, these cranked wings, we're gonna get out of that um and go with Delta's.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_04: Delta was Delta was in the dustbin, so uh, but I still think Dyke Delta is um is a peach.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_06: There's a Belgian version of that sort of Delta.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_04: There is the Verhees Delta, um, and yeah, so that's been through a couple of iterations, and the latest version of that is a two-seater Howard with a Rotex 912.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and uh the designer of that has turned up at the LAA rally and has proceeded to camp in the aeroplane because the the huge wide cockpit also has like a camping area, which does seem to sit at a really inclined angle.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_04: But um must be a bit of a weird sleeping experience, but uh that's quite cool.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not I'm never convinced by the idea of sleeping in your aeroplane, though, because surely you wake up in the morning and everything is damp.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on your airplane.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got a Concorde.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, that's a bit that's a that's a big camping aeroplane.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's a delta?
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's a delta, yeah.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yes.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh if it wasn't allowed Concorde.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_04: No, we we specifically try to avoid all the obvious choices like Vulcan and Concorde.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um and even SR71.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he wouldn't let me have that either.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh no, we banned bandoze.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_04: If you've got a favourite delta, uh tell us about it in the comments.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then Ed will say it's not allowed.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_04: So that's she's Annabelle's very unfair every week.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_04: She says I changed the rules.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_04: Not true.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, or uh maybe you liked one of ours.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us in the comments.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_06: Events.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_06: Events?
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but are there any?
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_06: We've got to the end of flying.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_06: Well, it's Christmasy stuff around, lunches and stuff like that, um, and some Christmas fairs and things like that.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_06: But there are no flying events until New Year's Day, when there's at least three.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_06: Amazing.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_06: Bobmin, Slate, and North Reps.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_06: I can imagine North Reps.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_04: It'll be a challenge if you go, I'm gonna do all three of those, you'll need a fast aeroplane.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_04: In Concord.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_04: That'll do it.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yep.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_06: So, but um, but maybe there's some more come up, New Year's Day lines.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_06: That'd be great.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean the events calendar's been a bit slim, but actually there's things beginning to appear for 2026.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_04: So we're good.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_04: So that just leaves me uh to thank Annabelle and Dave for joining me on the show.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for turning up and thank Sky Demon for um supporting us.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_04: We obviously couldn't do it without them.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously the fantastic Bill parents for being coming on and being a brilliant guest.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I'm inspired.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go off and uh look on YouTube now for um videos of uh of Bill giving a uh a sheep a heart attack.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_04: And on that bombshell.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_04: Until next week.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks very much.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_04: Bye.
• 1:16:47
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• 1:16:51
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• 1:17:04
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