Latest / Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert / You Don't Have To Be Ready

Transcript

You Don't Have To Be Ready · Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, besties, we're back with okay, we were already having this great conversation.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Katrina Owens.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Katrina, uh, my my listening audience I call my besties because I started a journal when I was very lonely as an entrepreneur and started writing into my journal, calling that hey besties, because I hated journal writing.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: And so now I call my listeners my besties.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: This is just my besties.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's that kind of conversation.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, besties, you guys are gonna love Katrina Owens.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: For those of you that aren't familiar with her, you're gonna love this episode and you're just gonna be all up in her biz after.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Katrina, to the Founder Podcast.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, and really cute about the journaling to the besties.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know about you, but you know, everybody's always, oh, you need to journal.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: And I always used to get myself stuck in this dear diary kind of journaling.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Like dear diary.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: Today I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: I was like, why am I just recapping my day?
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's like if you were to look through my parents' house, stacks of diaries.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: They have like the little locks on them.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Locks on them, yeah.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: You can access them.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, how do I make a more deeper version of this?
1:15
SPEAKER_00: I need to be connected to the process.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I started just being like, hey, bestie, like I was having a conversation with my besties.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: So for those of you that don't, for anybody that doesn't know you, could Katrina, do you want to just give us a little bit of um an in uh insight into who you are and kind of the work that you do and the things that you're passionate about?
1:33
SPEAKER_00: And anything else you think is important.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like in kind of evolution.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: So I'm always testing like new, like, let me see how I introduce myself today.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm a personal branding and public relations consultant by trade.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: So I work predominantly with female entrepreneurs who want to speak on more stages, uh, you know, go on more podcasts, be featured in the media, really just treat the work that they do like they're a they're a big deal because they are.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: And in tandem with that, I host an event out here in the Vancouver area called Big Brand Energy Live once per year, which is the room where anything is possible.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: And I host a podcast called Fame Ready, which is under the same intention.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Like everything that I create is really about possibility.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of me in a nutshell.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a whole bunch of things.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: I just see where the world takes me at this point.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and it, you know, I will just vouch for I'm new to your world, I'm new to you.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: I met you at another event in the East, Eastern Canada at High Vibe Women.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: And new instantly, and I think Christina even came up to me after kind of tapped me on the shoulder.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: She's like, You need to get to know this woman.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, if anybody has been in a room with you or around you, your your your aura, if you will, your energy is just there's just a beautiful energy and receiving energy.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: So I got to know you a little bit and I attended your BBE, as we call it.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of a last minute, it was a last minute ad on my circuit.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: But I uh I'm always looking, especially in Western Canada, to get more connected.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Eastern Canada seems to be really easy to connect to.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's just a volume thing because of population.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: But I was at the BBE and it was a room of possibility, like the conversations, the keynotes, the speakers, the energy.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's not just like it wasn't it wasn't like a how-to workshop.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like going to a workshop, but the takeaways and tangibles were created such possibility.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I'm in behind on that.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: One of the things I really like that you did, and I think anybody that hosts events should do this.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: You created that group chat on Instagram.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what a fucking brilliant gold mine.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: No, that group chat's out of control.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a little bit quiet this week.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: I think people are on vacation, but I couldn't believe people were still talking that thing two weeks later.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, we're still here.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Like, because it's created, and so I think I don't know uh how strategic it was on your part part, but what I see from behind the scenes is the community it's creating, the connection, helping people stay in that possibility after the event, right?
4:13
SPEAKER_00: Which is always the thing, right?
4:14
SPEAKER_00: We go home all rah, rah and ready.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh and also from um from the strategic point from you, you can see the language, you can see the conversation, you can see where the I don't want to say the pain points are, but the the conflict areas or the the friction points, right?
4:31
SPEAKER_00: And how better to support.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was brilliant for anybody that runs events.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: I actually think um Nicole and Kayla were like, we're gonna do that for our event.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's great for anyone.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I would never say it was my novel idea because I have been in other event-related group chats.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: For me, you know what?
4:47
SPEAKER_01: I'll just spill a little bit of strategy because that group chat actually existed.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: The very first BBE I ever did was a much smaller version last October.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Really hyper local.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: It was like 60 women.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I think the furthest that people came were maybe a couple from the island and maybe one or two people from the Okanagan.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't really like as a big thing like it was this past June, but I had created that group chat because I wanted people to understand the event a little bit more.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh and at the time before this October event, I basically dumped like everybody I knew into the group chat, people that I had invited but hadn't bought a ticket yet, all of the things because I was like, I need a place where I can just explain what this is for people that maybe are like on the fence, and then obviously that worked as a strategy to like kind of show people, hey, like this is the kind of conversation that happens.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: This is like, you know, what you can kind of expect from me.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: And then now it just continues to live on.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's outside yourself.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: So what would you say?
5:51
SPEAKER_00: So let's dive in.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: I I'd like to learn a little bit more about you, but I also think from my listeners' point of view, uh, I've had this summer lineup, it's not it, it sounds like it's looking like it's really focusing on branding, marketing.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've had like a founder of a CPG brand who changed from you know product building to storytelling and had a significant change, right?
6:14
SPEAKER_00: When they when they focused on the story of the founder, right?
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Again, that visibility piece.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: So this ties in.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: And then I just had a marketing, a CPG marketing expert uh that I just interviewed, she'll be on.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like it's all kind of stacking up.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: So a little bit of learning and uh lessons for the listeners, but what would you say is the biggest fallacy around PR and personal branding and public relations?
6:38
SPEAKER_00: What do what do women think about that?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: What do people think about it?
6:41
SPEAKER_00: And what would you say, what would you say to that?
6:46
SPEAKER_01: I am like a cliche when I say this, and like I'm cringing before I even say it out loud, which is the like you you're never going to be ready to do it.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: And so there's two different things where I see this come up because in personal branding, it comes up because people don't feel confident enough to like build out a personal brand.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: And I guess the same actually translates over into public relations too, because people are like, I'm not ready to, you know, be interviewed by the media or pitch to TV, like I'm just not ready.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: And all of those things just come from confidence because the way that we grow our personal brand or our business is by doing, and we build that confidence by experiencing ourselves actually doing the thing that scares us.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: And so when it comes to personal branding and PR specifically, it's like these are things that people are like, oh, I gotta like, you know, I need to know what my positioning is before I experiment.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, no, you're gonna figure that out as you do it.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't just start my business and say, I'm Katrina, I'm a personal branding and public relations expert.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: I figured that out by having conversation, by pitching, by seeing what I liked to talk about.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: And I actually think that's what holds most people back is that they don't let themselves experiment with that stuff in public because they think they have to figure it out before they do it.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: That whole piece, they don't like to experiment in public.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Right?
8:05
SPEAKER_00: But you don't scary.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't get the feedback.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: When what one of the things I said mentioned to you before we press record, you live by this rule.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: You don't just teach people or encourage people so that you get clients.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: This is literally how you live.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about the journey that we talked about with singing.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it has been so I just for the listeners, I am not like a seasoned singer by any means.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Last October, the last big brand energy event, actually, I decided that I wanted to learn how to sing.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: My partner is an extremely talented man.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: He is an actor, he can sing, he can play instruments, he can do all the things.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: And I had asked him, like, hey babe, do you think anybody can learn how to sing?
8:49
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Yeah, I think anyone has like a singing voice, they just need to train it and and and figure, figure out what that is for them.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna figure that out.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: So I started taking vocal lessons last October and take them every single week, actually.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I have it Friday evening, so I'll be there in a few hours.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: And I started learning to sing.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: And when I started, I was terrified about singing out loud.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Even like singing in front of my vocal coach for the very first time.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember him asking me, like, what do you think is your like block when it comes to learning to sing?
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, the fact that I'm gonna have to do it in in front of you.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sing it out loud.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: And through that process, I obviously, you know, I've been going to my vocal coach for almost a year at this point, about nine months, I suppose.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: And in that process, I started to build my confidence.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, I need to show people what this process looks like because I know the internet world is so polished and perfect.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: And we tend to, from a personal brand perspective, especially curate what people see about us or how they experience us.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, one day I'm I know I will like perform and be really confident in my singing, and it will be a thing.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: I know that because it's a dream of mine, and I just have the confidence to achieve it.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: But I want people to know where I started because if they know where I started, which is off key, embarrassed, like cringing at myself, then it will just show them that that's where you can start.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be the like you don't start as done, right?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you start like in the like in the ick.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: In the ick.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: You really do.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: And I love I love this about you.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: I like I said, I'm fairly new to you and your uh your world on socials and things like that.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: But I did watch some because you record it and you put it on socials.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: You're like, look, and I think that's the thing about it, and that's that's really the heart of this podcast.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: It's like helping people understand that in order to get to the mountaintop, there's this whole trek, whatever it is.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a whole trek in between, and some of it we have to do out loud.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: We have to do it out loud in front of people.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: And let me ask you this just on a side note with the singing in front, was it more terrifying singing in front of one person than maybe a group where you can remain more anonymous?
11:17
SPEAKER_00: Did it feel more intimate singing just in front of one person?
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Find out there is a like I've never sang in front of an audience before, but I've spoken in front of an audience, and I will say, like, yeah, you know, I find it harder if I'm practicing a keynote talk, like I'll practice in my bedroom like every day to memorize that.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: And if I know my partner's home, like I can't do it.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: But like I can easily just get on a stage in front of a hundred strangers and just do the thing and deliver it.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm guessing it's will be the same for singing when I have when I have the opportunity to be in front of an audience because yeah, as soon as you're just like it's really it's hard.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny because I gave my first keynote speech this past spring, and it was my first 45 minutes.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: I've done small workshops, I've done, you know, a bunch of different small panels, all that kind of stuff.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: I do my podcast, I'll talk anywhere, I'll talk anywhere on anything, but I a very like intentional, organized 45 minutes, like they gave me a big space and putting together a structure and a flow that's strategic enough to where you're bringing not strategic to sell, but strategic so that your audience is going somewhere on a journey, you're closing the loops, you're taking them along, all that kind of stuff.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: And as I and I same thing, you don't want to be you don't want to be looking at notes, you don't want slides, but you don't also want to have it so memorized that it's a script.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Totally need to figure out the flow of it, right?
12:41
SPEAKER_00: And so as I was practicing that, the first time I said to my husband's like, okay, well, do it in front of him, do it for me.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, no, that's fine.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: And so the first time I did it for like in front of him, we were actually walking and I was doing it side by side so that I didn't have to like look at him.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And then when my speaker coach came, it was like three days before I was leaving, and she came to do like a deep two-hour session or whatever.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, All right, give it to me, deliver it to me right here, right now.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: The way and I was like, uh no, it's too awkward, and she said, uh-uh-uh, give it to me right here, right now.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: And it was the first little bit felt really awkward, really like it felt really intimate, and I was like, This would be better if I had the hundred strangers.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it helped to get over that little bit of awkwardness.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: So I encourage people to, yeah, go go a little public with it, make it yeah, it really takes like, and you know what's funny?
13:38
SPEAKER_01: I so have no ego when it comes to singing.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know that it doesn't sound amazing.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And so when I started posting that, I think just having the awareness where I'm like, you know, if someone were to say, and I know I have such a great community, like, unless something goes really viral, I would be shocked if someone like left a mean comment, just because that doesn't really happen to me.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it happens at some point to me in the future.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: But and so my fear actually was never even like, are people gonna think I'm bad?
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm the fear was actually like, are people gonna find this interesting?
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, am I gonna post this and people are gonna be like, we don't care about this?
14:14
SPEAKER_00: And so, what we what would you say to those that are starting to experiment?
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, personal branding is so like it, I mean, you've known this, it's so important.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: But I think now with such dem marketing, AI-driven marketing, the personal brand piece has way more weight and relevance.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: I'll just share a little bit.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, we're building a brand, we're building a national brand.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: And when I look at the so this last year we've had 2026 for me as a co-founder, my word was visibility.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: I knew I was gonna be creating visibility for the brand.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: So I and things happen.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: And when I look at just like the insights on socials and things like that, and my brand, personal brand over the last year.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: And you gotta remember, I don't, I'm not an online coach, I'm not selling coaching, right?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Like I will do consulting and things like that.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: But when I look at that and I look at our brand, the actual the brand itself, my personal work has elevated that immensely.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy to me.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: I've actually watched it happen.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: So talk to us a little bit about the importance of that for anybody.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny because to your point, that's actually how I started getting into personal branding.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: So I left my corporate job and had no online presence.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, I guess I have to start an Instagram.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: And so at the time, I was running a very traditional marketing and PR agency.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: And so this was about four, three and a half, four years ago.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to like make it like business content and not like business coach content, but like, here's a graphic that explains what marketing is.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, God, I hate creating this content.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just like boring and it's obviously not getting great engagement.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to grow literally a platform from zero.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: And as I brought more of my personality into it, and I was not comfortable showing up on camera back then, but as I started to like share more about not like my personal life, but just like my journey and like what I really wanted, I found that that was how I grew an actual community.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: And so today, in my programs and my events and all the things that I do, I often get people coming to me who want to build community.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: And I honestly believe that the only way that you do that, even if you're just like building an audience and it's more like one-way communication, you have to show more than just like what someone could look up on AI.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: And it's our personal emotions, feelings, stories, the things that AI can't experience that actually attracts someone to us and makes us memorable.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's like, I don't know, it's really interesting.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: We've gotten to this place where we got to be ourselves online.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: And what does that mean?
17:05
SPEAKER_00: So when you, yeah, so when you uh talk to entrepreneurs, what is what are the opportunities you think they're missing by not connecting with this part?
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I know and I I hate to say this about our gender, but I know women predominantly are like, I don't want to be on camera or on Instagram.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be people to think that they think that I'm better than them or that I'm, you know, I have to be perfect and have everything in order and you know, blah.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if men generally have that much depth of thought.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: They just have it's just like out of sight, out of mind.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it goes back to like so working with women, particularly on PR, that really comes into play because PR really is like in someone else's words, bragging.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: Like good PR is you taking something and like getting the media involved or talking about it in different places and really celebrating it.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: So this is something that I've gone through a lot because people are like, I don't want people to think that I'm like bragging.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is your life's work, you gotta get it out there.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: From the rooftops.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it it is interesting.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: I think it's all in how you approach it.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to personal branding, I actually think the personal brand is what offsets the like bragging part of PR.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Because if people know your journey, right?
18:24
SPEAKER_01: Like if people know where you came from, how you built this, the intention behind it, they're only going to celebrate you as you grow and expand and share more.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Like uh, someone had said to me after after BBE this last time, one of my clients was like, it is so amazing how like you have this community of cheerleaders, like people just cheering you on.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: And I did not set out to create that.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, I wasn't like, I'm gonna like create this community of people that cheer me on.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: That is the best possible outcome, but it was like I'm going to show others, you know, what's possible for them by doing it myself and sharing all of the ins and outs of it.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: And in turn, because people know all the sides, like they don't just know like the polished version, they know like the like hard parts too.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: It actually takes that edge off of like the bragging.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that like not everyone, it doesn't mean that everyone is thinks you're great, but it means that the people that really buy into your events, read your book, listen to your podcast, those are the people that are like, yeah, she's really just kept it real the entire time.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: So do you think that they're because right?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm involved in a lot of founder level um discussions with women that are getting, you know, they're building like crazy tech.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I and I just separate the uh the I define it a little bit different.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: These are more than solopreneurs or um lifestyle businesses.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm involved with a lot of founders who are building like, I don't know, tech stuff, and you know, they're like um and the one thing they struggle with is this founder led personal brand.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And so now a lot of them are looking at me, they're like, How do you how are you just like so visible?
20:14
SPEAKER_00: How are you just like you just talk on stories and this and that and blah blah blah?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: But here's the one thing I want to, because this this is a there's this whole pressure to when you're building something to show what it's like to build, but then there's this whole like, is there a is there a point where you can lose credibility if in the showing behind the scenes of what it's really taking to build whatever it is you're building?
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Is there is there like is there some guidelines around that or do we just like show all the that's such a good question because I I do actually see this.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: So like I there's like a couple different group, I would say groups of people that I work with, and one of them is someone who's a more established business owner who has a larger organization, and that becomes the question.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: They're like, well, like how much of this am I actually showing?
21:09
SPEAKER_01: And so there's it's all gray area, but what I try to use as like the golden rule is like, what is the thing that you really want to be known for?
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Because if something isn't necessarily in support of that, then I don't think you really need to share all of the like, you know, I the online world's gotten a bit weird with like the bank account screenshots and things like that.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Like you have a tough financial quarter, are you be like, hey guys, like I'm almost like bankrupt.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And then your community's like, ah, they're gonna rise to meet you or they're gonna panic and take off.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it always depends too, right?
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Because like depending on the type of business owner, you probably have multiple audiences.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you're someone who has investors or potential investors, like there are things you need to be careful about sharing.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean it's like don't share anything, but it's like, okay.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: What can we talk about within reason?
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And like maybe it's not sharing like this is my entire financial chaos behind the scenes, but maybe it's like, okay, there's like one story that feels like it's not going to discredit me as a founder, but it's a challenge people could relate to.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: And like kind of pulling that one out and expanding on it a little bit.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: All our cards, like all the time.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, especially like from a financial perspective.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Business finances are complicated.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: And I've been open about my own journey in like leveraging debt to build my business.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: But like, I don't try to make that my like full storyline only because also not what I want people to remember me for.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so that's a really good point.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: It's just to keep that in mind.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to be known for?
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And that will help that will help you kind of carry your storyline through whatever it is you want to kind of.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: So what do you think is what do you think um people are missing out on or not understanding in terms of visibility?
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what?
23:06
SPEAKER_01: I think people miss out on like the really fun opportunities when they're not super visible.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Like I often get people wondering, I have this one client that comes to mind because she had so many incredible assets, like a podcast that had so many downloads, like so much opportunity.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm looking at her personality, I'm like, if I had the metrics that you had, I would be going to like red carpet events and like, you know, I would be like going, I'd be doing it up big time.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: But I think the world has shifted where when we stay in this like super polished, super aesthetic lane, like people are like, I want to keep it like really, really tight.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, the the extra visibility, sharing more and like knowing that like more people might like, you know, see this and disagree.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: We're scared of that.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: So we keep things pulled back a little bit, but those are the things that are actually going to open us up to like maybe larger brand opportunities, maybe bigger opportunities to speak on stage.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: There's this weird thing happening where um like influencer culture, all these influencers that have gained like hundreds of thousands of followers over the rise of Instagram, they're no longer seeing the same engagement that some of smaller personal brands and creators are receiving simply because they've lost like the human connection to the audience.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And I actually think when you lose that human connection, all of the really great visibility opportunities, like let's use like a really amazing speaking engagement for an example, like the person that's hiring that speaker for that engagement, they want to know that people are actively listening to them or um engaged with their story.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: And so if you're holding back on your visibility and not building that, you're gonna miss out on the really fun opportunities.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: I think of that like when, like I said earlier, it was like the fall of 2025.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, when you're kind of starting to think about what the next year is gonna bring.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: I knew in my gut for our brand for 2025, it was operations for 2026.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I knew it was visibility.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that looked like.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I don't know, PR.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh I had this thing come across my desk um where somebody sent me a link to apply, put in uh a pitch to apply to a pitch competition.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm building a franchise in the trades industry, right?
25:34
SPEAKER_00: So I this is very rare.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm a female in franchising, that's very um underrepresented, and then building trades.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And then in the door industry, which is also completely obscure.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, can you just obscure, obscure, obscure, right?
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Like all of it.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: And I get this, I get this message.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Here, you should you should throw your name in, do a pitch competition.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I had no idea what a pitch competition was.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: I read the rules, like you got give us a send us a 60-second video, cover you have to cover you know these things in the 60 seconds, and then we take the video and we uh audit it.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, all right, so I gave it a whirl.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea what it meant.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: I knew it meant.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, then you'd go to pitch on stage, like I followed, like I checked out what the opportunity was, but I had no idea, not even a clue.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: So I did it.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: I did it within 60 seconds, and which is I thought I thought that was the win, right?
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Because to be able to explain my business model, my uh scale and growth plan, blah, blah, blah, all that in 60 seconds.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And and so anyway, that was in October.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so then December I get a call.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: I have become I've still been selected as a semifinalist out of 150 applicants.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: I was, I always like, I felt like I'd won the lottery.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: I was like, what?
26:56
SPEAKER_00: And then that led to three months later, I'm standing on a stage in front of 800 people sharing my vision of this business and this brand.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: I had videographers come and do a whole feature film, uh, three-minute documentary, if you could mini mech, a mini doc on me, all as a PR package for winning and winning this, winning the final round.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's first round, second round, and many of my listeners know this story.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And then I pitched it to 800 people in a gala, a very prestigious gala.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're familiar with the form.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you would be.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: It's probably yeah.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: I've never heard of this organization at all in my life.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: The so when I look at the PR and the visibility that came from a 60-second video that I had no clue what I was doing.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: And then I had to figure it out because they're like, okay, now you have a three-minute pitch you have to deliver with the slide deck, and you need to be able to answer three minutes worth of questions.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: The point is, when that there was a couple things when that visit like the visibility train that I went on was crazy, but also yeah, the the person I had to recalibrate to for that level of exposure, that was and I'm a pretty open person to begin with.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was like, oh, this is gonna like this is this brings a next level.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: So is that yeah, you know, do you you you see this a lot with women as they as or men or whoever you probably work mostly with women, but as they rise up into those opportunities, is kind of recalibrating your ability to be visible.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I feel that right now, just having hosted this big event, and like I mean, I am launching a book in a couple months, so it's like the opportunities are stacked on top of each other, and it's just like, ooh, okay, like it for me, it's knowing that you know the business is busier, the inbox is busier, but it does open you up to other people's opinions that aren't necessarily always going to be positive.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I think any good personal brand is a little bit divisive.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think, you know, you're if you're a good personal brand, if you're really like making waves with visibility, it's probably because there's some part of your story that makes people feel something.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: And usually, like if you make some people feel one way, you probably trigger other feelings in other people's.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, you know, I can only speak from my own experience at this point because I think I'm probably the one navigating it right now to be able to serve all of my clients a little bit better.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: But the thing that I actually was just doing before we jumped on here was I was ordering a second phone because I was like, I need to have like very, very clear like personal and business boundaries now.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna I have ordered this phone that I'm not gonna put any social media on.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm only giving the number to like my partner, my parents, and my best friends.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: And like when I am like on weekends, you know, turned off from the business, I'm actually going to like just use this personal phone and put the business phone in the office in a drawer because now I think as your visibility rises, to me, visibility is a job.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: You've got to like really put the boundaries in place around like, how am I relating to this?
30:21
SPEAKER_01: And like, if this is work, how do I not let it bleed into my own self-concept everywhere else?
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's really yeah, that's a really good thing.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because that's what I'm going, yeah.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: That's what we're I'm going through now.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Because after that, we also went to the Dragon's Den, right?
30:36
SPEAKER_00: So we went to Dragon's Den too.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: So that hasn't come out yet.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: I'll have a full-on crisis in the fall.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: I'll call you then.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, I can't wait.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Is all PR good PR?
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like they're gonna make us look like idiots.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh all PR is good PR.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: I actually believe that.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: I think any press is good press.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Like we can spin anything.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: So okay, good.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: I'll come back to you.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so okay.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see, this conversation is already going fast.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: So, what is what is one or two things that you would like to leave the audience with if for let's say for the beginner and let's say for the messy middle.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: So for the beginner, it's stop waiting to have it all figured out.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: You're never going to understand what your positioning is or what your pitch is before you do it.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: You've got to figure it out by doing it.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: And then for those in the messy middle, I sent this DM to someone earlier today.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: I said, the messy middle doesn't really end.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: That's what I messy middle is just like if we can just get comfortable in the chaos.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: I love this concept of someone had said this to me, and I wish I could give them credit because I can't remember where I heard it, but someone was like, you are the eye of the storm, and everything swirls around you.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: So if you can be really grounded in yourself and you know, your values and your integrity, and just let all of the extra things like swirl around you, like that's the best place to be.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I like that concept or like that visualization for like messy middle, because it's like you can be in the messy middle, but it doesn't have to be so like stressful and chaotic and a problem.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: It can literally just be like, okay, I'm here.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: This is growing a business, this is scaling, it's a lot, but like I'm okay.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna keep that.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm the eye of the song.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: I like that because that's where that's where it's like really quiet.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: It's really quiet in the eye, right?
32:27
SPEAKER_00: The messy happens all around it.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: So thanks for that.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Katrina, where can people find more of you and where can they start kind of consuming your uh well, following along on your lessons um and getting to know a little bit more in your world and getting themselves tickets to next year's BBE?
32:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you can find me at Katrina Owens PR.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of like the central hub for everything.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh Big Brand Energy Live has its own Instagram now at Big Brand Energy Live.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Tickets for 2027 are on sale.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: It'll be in Vancouver in June 2027, which is so exciting.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I have a book coming out uh this August called The Six Figure Personal Brand.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: It's all about it's a great one for the beginner.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: So if you're someone who is like, I don't know like where to start with all of this, this is the book for you.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: It's literally like my journey from leaving my corporate job, building a personal brand from scratch, and building a business off of it.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: So nice.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, this might uh well, we'll have to I'll pay, I'll have to watch and see when you're launching because this um episode might come out around the same time.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: So that'd be awesome.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time today.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I look forward to uh being more in your energy.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes, me too.