Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / Curiosity Over Fear: Anna Gibson On Her Journey To The 2026 Winter Olympics, Life As A Multisport Athlete & Joy As A Renewable Resource

Transcript

Curiosity Over Fear: Anna Gibson On Her Journey To The 2026 Winter Olympics, Life As A Multisport Athlete & Joy As A Renewable Resource · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: You can simultaneously prepare for things you don't know when
0:02
Speaker 1: they're going to happen. If you believe that you can
0:04
Speaker 1: do something, you can and you will.
0:20
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, Emily a body here.
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Speaker 3: You are listening to another episode of Hurdle, a podcast
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Speaker 3: featuring the mindset, secrets, and true stories of the most
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Speaker 3: inspiring women in sports and wellness, empowering you to live
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Speaker 3: a healthier, happier, more motivated life and of course, conquer
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Speaker 3: your own hurdles.
0:37
Speaker 2: In today's episode.
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Speaker 3: I'm thrilled to sit down with a powerhouse athlete who
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Speaker 3: is truly redefined what it means to be well rounded.
0:45
Speaker 2: Anna Gibson is not only.
0:47
Speaker 3: A professional runner for Brooks, she's also a newly crowned
0:51
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six Winter Olympian in ski mountaineering, or schemo
0:57
Speaker 3: as it is affectionately known in the mountains. Anna's journey
1:00
Speaker 3: is nothing short of incredible. Growing up in Jackson Hole, Wyoming,
1:05
Speaker 3: she was practically raised on skis, but it wasn't until
1:08
Speaker 3: she was already a seasoned professional runner that she decided
1:12
Speaker 3: to take on the world of competitive schemo only seven
1:15
Speaker 3: months before her Olympic debut.
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Speaker 2: Now to reiterate.
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Speaker 3: Anna is also a professional runner for Brooks and there
1:23
Speaker 3: she also leads an unconventional path, running both on the
1:28
Speaker 3: trails and on the track back. In twenty twenty four,
1:31
Speaker 3: she won a vertical race called the Broken Arrow, which
1:36
Speaker 3: includes one thousand feet of elevation gain over a three
1:40
Speaker 3: mile course, just six days before competing at the Olympic
1:45
Speaker 3: Trials in the fifteen hundred meter. In other words, Anna
1:50
Speaker 3: is something else, a testament that when you lean into
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Speaker 3: curiosity and joy, the sky is a limit. In our chat,
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Speaker 3: we dive into the what if I succeed up mindset.
2:01
Speaker 3: How reframing failure followed Anna to embrace new challenges with
2:05
Speaker 3: zero fear, the power of being a beginner, Why accepting
2:09
Speaker 3: she had room to grow was her greatest competitive advantage,
2:12
Speaker 3: and her Plan B philosophy, how having multiple passions and
2:17
Speaker 3: pursuits actually fuels her to focus in each one. Make
2:21
Speaker 3: sure you're following along with Hurdle over on social It's
2:24
Speaker 3: over at Hurdle Podcasts. You can also check out Iheartwoman's
2:27
Speaker 3: Sports over at Iheartwomen's Sports and me over at Emily Abadi.
2:31
Speaker 3: Listen to Hurdle with Emily Abadi on the iHeartRadio, app
2:34
Speaker 3: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
2:38
Speaker 2: And with that, let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling. Today.
2:49
Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Anna Gibson. She is a
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Speaker 3: professional runner for Brooks. She's also a newly crowned Olympian
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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six in Milan in the schemo on a Gibson.
3:03
Speaker 2: How are we doing today?
3:05
Speaker 1: I'm doing super well.
3:06
Speaker 3: Some people new to you might think, how in the
3:10
Speaker 3: world does a professional runner get to become also a
3:15
Speaker 3: Winter Olympian. I know this isn't a concise answer, but
3:19
Speaker 3: let's start with how are you feeling in the wake
3:22
Speaker 3: of your regional accomplishments.
3:24
Speaker 1: Gosh, I mean, it's been kind of crazy coming back
3:27
Speaker 1: to just regular life and kind of entering into my
3:30
Speaker 1: off season and the Olympics as the last race that
3:32
Speaker 1: I'm going to do for a little while, and so
3:35
Speaker 1: I've just been trying to get everything back to the
3:37
Speaker 1: status quo, back to normal, catch up with family and
3:40
Speaker 1: friends back home, and yeah, it's been a really fun
3:42
Speaker 1: experience coming back and just feeling the excitement that getting
3:45
Speaker 1: to watch the race brought all the people in my life.
3:48
Speaker 3: Which is so funny because back home now, but shortly
3:51
Speaker 3: after your time in Italy you went to the polar
3:55
Speaker 3: opposite and did some running in Hawaii.
3:58
Speaker 2: Is that right?
3:59
Speaker 1: Yes? I had our annual Brooks team camp, so I
4:02
Speaker 1: met up with other Brooks trail runners in Hawaii and
4:05
Speaker 1: that was super fun. We got to go run around
4:07
Speaker 1: on Haliakala and all over the trails on Maui and
4:11
Speaker 1: went whale watching and it was just some really good
4:13
Speaker 1: quality time together as a team.
4:15
Speaker 3: Oh wow, it sounds like a dream, and Italy also
4:19
Speaker 3: sounds like a dream. It's not a bad life that
4:21
Speaker 3: you're living on a For those that aren't familiar with
4:25
Speaker 3: ski mountaineering, let's give them a quick synopsis of what
4:29
Speaker 3: we're dealing with here.
4:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. So ski mountaineering is basically backcountry skiing, but fast
4:35
Speaker 1: and in a short, contained course. And so the Olympic
4:39
Speaker 1: disciplines were an individual sprint where you went up and
4:43
Speaker 1: then down a course that was a handful of minutes long,
4:46
Speaker 1: and if you made it all the way through to
4:47
Speaker 1: the final, you'd race three times. And then there was
4:50
Speaker 1: also a mixed relay, which was a partner race with
4:52
Speaker 1: a man and a woman from each nation. There are
4:54
Speaker 1: twelve countries represented, and that was a little bit longer.
4:57
Speaker 1: So she went around two times and then tagged your partner.
5:00
Speaker 1: They went, and then you'd go again, and then they
5:02
Speaker 1: would go again, and so sort of this like back
5:04
Speaker 1: and forth relay race and ski mountineering as a whole.
5:06
Speaker 1: Like they wanted to showcase all the different disciplines of movement.
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Speaker 1: So there was skinning uphill where you put like skins
5:13
Speaker 1: which are like sticky fabric on the bottom of your
5:15
Speaker 1: skis and you skin up. There's a boot pack section
5:18
Speaker 1: where you take your skis off and you put them
5:19
Speaker 1: on a backpack and then run up the stairs and
5:22
Speaker 1: then a descent down through gates as if it's like
5:24
Speaker 1: a GS race in alpine racing.
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Speaker 3: I was laughing earlier as I was rewatching this competition
5:33
Speaker 3: because in my eyes, ski mountaineering really resembles what in
5:40
Speaker 3: track and field is often a very hilarious event, and
5:46
Speaker 3: that is the steeple chase. I think that Schemo is
5:50
Speaker 3: the steeplechase of the Winter Olympics.
5:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean definitely a little bit. It's like doing
5:55
Speaker 1: a really really hard physical effort where you're like, you know,
5:58
Speaker 1: really using your erobe system while also trying to do
6:02
Speaker 1: some type of agility experience. Like it's it's sort of
6:06
Speaker 1: similar to biathlon too, if people are familiar with like
6:08
Speaker 1: Nordic biathlon, it's a little bit similar. Like they're obviously
6:11
Speaker 1: shooting guns at targets, and like we're going through transitions
6:15
Speaker 1: taking skins off and putting them back on, and putting
6:17
Speaker 1: our skis on a backpack and putting them back on.
6:19
Speaker 1: So it's different, but there's this like element of a
6:21
Speaker 1: hard physical effort with like also needing to focus and
6:24
Speaker 1: do a skill that requires actually a fair amount of dexterity.
6:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I was watching you run, there's an official
6:31
Speaker 3: term for this that I don't have at the tip
6:33
Speaker 3: of my tongue right now, but when you're running up
6:35
Speaker 3: the stairs in your ski boots, I'm just thinking about
6:38
Speaker 3: how hard that is simply walking and baffled by the
6:43
Speaker 3: agility that you demonstrain.
6:46
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if I personally demonstrated that much agility,
6:48
Speaker 1: because I felt times on those stairs and the Olympics,
6:52
Speaker 1: but yeah, it is definitely hard, and it's kind of
6:55
Speaker 1: like just this deep grind where it hurts pretty badly.
6:59
Speaker 1: Your legs are going super and you're just like trying
7:01
Speaker 1: to get to the top of the staircase as fast
7:03
Speaker 1: as you can.
7:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:05
Speaker 3: Well, we'll talk about the whole legs going super lactic
7:08
Speaker 3: thing and the amount of recovery time you have during
7:10
Speaker 3: this event, and just a little bit. But first and foremost,
7:13
Speaker 3: I want to lead us off here chatting a little
7:15
Speaker 3: bit about the fact that you didn't really get into
7:18
Speaker 3: ski mountaineering until seven months before you competed in ski
7:22
Speaker 3: mountaineering at the Olympics. Some might think that's crazy, but
7:26
Speaker 3: considering how you grew up, it's not all that insane.
7:29
Speaker 3: Tell me a little bit about your upbringing and why
7:32
Speaker 3: this was something that came natural to you.
7:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this has definitely been one of the
7:37
Speaker 1: most asked questions and just one of the most interesting
7:39
Speaker 1: things to kind of navigate because people from you know,
7:43
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, who know me as predominantly
7:45
Speaker 1: a runner, are like very shocked at this story that like,
7:48
Speaker 1: how could you possibly go to the Olympics for something
7:50
Speaker 1: that you just started doing. But people who've known me
7:54
Speaker 1: my whole life have seen this entire trajectory of me
7:57
Speaker 1: falling in love with skiing and that being the original sport.
8:00
Speaker 1: And I mean when I was a kid, I was
8:03
Speaker 1: like ten years old, I remember like asking my parents
8:06
Speaker 1: to go skin and ski the resort behind our house.
8:10
Speaker 1: I grew up in Wyoming at the base of Jacksonville
8:12
Speaker 1: Mountain Resort, and so we had this like epic world
8:15
Speaker 1: class terrain in our backyard and everyone around me was
8:18
Speaker 1: like a big ski bum and that was just kind
8:21
Speaker 1: of the culture that I was raised in. And so
8:23
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with skiing from a very young age,
8:26
Speaker 1: and I remember loving that feeling of just like having
8:28
Speaker 1: to go uphill and like use your body in order
8:32
Speaker 1: to like earn your turns back down, and so yeah,
8:35
Speaker 1: I remember that. I also remember being quite young, maybe
8:38
Speaker 1: like five or six years old, and my parents both
8:41
Speaker 1: competed in a local race that was held at Jackson
8:43
Speaker 1: Hole called the Rondonay Rally, and it was this epic
8:47
Speaker 1: mountain race where you would climb literally up the entirety
8:50
Speaker 1: of jacksonvill Mountain Resort, including like a boot pack and
8:53
Speaker 1: a ladder of Corbetts Kolar, which lots of resort skiers
8:56
Speaker 1: will be familiar with. So yeah, I like have been
9:00
Speaker 1: aware of this sport for a very long time and
9:02
Speaker 1: I just wasn't doing it in a competitive sense, and
9:04
Speaker 1: so over the last couple of years, I've been skiing
9:07
Speaker 1: a lot for training, and it just was a very
9:09
Speaker 1: natural transition for me to start kind of adding in
9:12
Speaker 1: that competition piece this year.
9:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard you talk about how there's something really
9:17
Speaker 3: special about the community in Wyoming, especially having left it
9:21
Speaker 3: for a bit and then come back. What do you
9:24
Speaker 3: think that coming up in Wyoming? Growing up in Wyoming
9:29
Speaker 3: gave to you, aside from this love for skiing and
9:33
Speaker 3: being outdoors.
9:34
Speaker 1: Gosh, I mean, I think that there's just this cultural
9:38
Speaker 1: thing here where everyone is just trying really hard at
9:41
Speaker 1: whatever they do. And there are a lot of people
9:43
Speaker 1: here who are super outdoorsy and who do all these
9:45
Speaker 1: crazy mountain activities like incredible skiers, incredible climbers, trail runners, cyclists,
9:51
Speaker 1: river people like you can do everything in Jackson, And
9:55
Speaker 1: I've watched people around me just like really embrace that
9:59
Speaker 1: feeling of just like trying hard, even if you're not
10:02
Speaker 1: elite or you're not professional, like everyone at their own
10:04
Speaker 1: level is like striving to be their best. And then
10:06
Speaker 1: I've kind of realized as I've gotten older that that's
10:08
Speaker 1: not just in the outdoor world. It's not just in
10:10
Speaker 1: sports that it's like really just a more comprehensive concept
10:15
Speaker 1: here that like, people try hard in their jobs, people
10:17
Speaker 1: try hard as parents, people try hard at like literally everything.
10:20
Speaker 1: And so I just think that like, yeah, being raised
10:23
Speaker 1: in a culture where like trying hard is cool and
10:25
Speaker 1: it's just what you do. I think that like has
10:28
Speaker 1: given me a lot of just motivation to try hard
10:30
Speaker 1: in my own ways.
10:32
Speaker 3: What's interesting is trying hard is one thing, but then
10:36
Speaker 3: responding to what happens when you try hard is another.
10:39
Speaker 3: Because sometimes you'll try hard and you'll accomplish your goal,
10:42
Speaker 3: and sometimes you'll try hard and you'll come up short.
10:45
Speaker 3: So how did that play out for you in your
10:48
Speaker 3: upbringing because you were certainly exposed to both.
10:52
Speaker 1: I was exposed to both, yeah, And I mean I
10:54
Speaker 1: think like a big period of my life where I
10:56
Speaker 1: look back and I'm like, oh, I was trying really hard,
10:58
Speaker 1: but it wasn't really working out. My years in the
11:01
Speaker 1: NC double A, like I ran track and cross country,
11:03
Speaker 1: I was never the star. Like I did have some success.
11:06
Speaker 1: I ran some fast times on the track, and I
11:09
Speaker 1: you know, got to race it nationals cross country A
11:12
Speaker 1: handful of times and yeah, like I did, I did well,
11:15
Speaker 1: but I was never the star and I never reached
11:19
Speaker 1: what I felt like was my potential. And so it
11:21
Speaker 1: was just like this constant thing of like, Okay, I
11:23
Speaker 1: just keep putting in the work because like I know,
11:24
Speaker 1: one day, like I just had this feeling deep down
11:26
Speaker 1: that it would all work out. And it's very gratifying
11:29
Speaker 1: to feel like, Okay, it actually did, Like I got
11:31
Speaker 1: through that time, and I still try just as hard now,
11:33
Speaker 1: but it's like showing a little bit more to the
11:35
Speaker 1: outside world that like, I've put in a lot of
11:38
Speaker 1: effort to get here, and so I think honestly, it's
11:40
Speaker 1: just like really a deep self belief that like you
11:43
Speaker 1: are capable of more than you have shown, and that
11:47
Speaker 1: you're you're trying hard and that like your time will come.
11:50
Speaker 3: And it sounds like that self belief has been something
11:52
Speaker 3: that's been modeled for you. You've had really good people
11:55
Speaker 3: to look up to who knew the power of really
11:58
Speaker 3: believing it and themselves. When you think now back to
12:04
Speaker 3: as you said, people are seeing it pay.
12:07
Speaker 2: Off, What does that look like for you? What are
12:10
Speaker 2: they seeing pay off?
12:13
Speaker 1: Gosh, I mean it looks like right now on like
12:16
Speaker 1: an everyday basis, just like feeling so embraced and so
12:20
Speaker 1: loved by this community and not just like the people
12:22
Speaker 1: in Jackson that I see every day, but like every
12:25
Speaker 1: everyone who's reached out to me since the Olympics or
12:27
Speaker 1: during the Olympics to like congratulate me. Like I've just
12:29
Speaker 1: had people from every part of my life just like
12:32
Speaker 1: be really excited about the whole experience and the story
12:35
Speaker 1: and watching it and being a part of it. And
12:38
Speaker 1: that part has been like really really gratifying. And I
12:40
Speaker 1: think there have been a number of people who've reached
12:42
Speaker 1: out to me where I'm like, oh, like this person
12:44
Speaker 1: saw me at some really low moments, Like they saw
12:46
Speaker 1: me through some really hard times when things were not
12:48
Speaker 1: working out, and like they're also feeling that feeling of
12:52
Speaker 1: gratification like Okay, like she did it as possible, Like
12:55
Speaker 1: you can get through those things.
12:57
Speaker 3: Right, And you're also now doing a bit of everything
13:02
Speaker 3: which you mentioned. I think that for some they try
13:06
Speaker 3: to do a lot of things and they fall into
13:08
Speaker 3: this trap of maybe not doing any of them.
13:11
Speaker 2: Well, you, on the other.
13:12
Speaker 3: Hand, are doing things that seem for many, myself included, unfathomable.
13:18
Speaker 3: When I read that you not only won the Broken
13:22
Speaker 3: Arrow just six days before the Olympic Trials, the last
13:26
Speaker 3: Olympic Trials, competing in the fifteen hundred.
13:29
Speaker 2: I was beside myself.
13:31
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a funny thing, Like I think
13:33
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like psychology that we could an
13:35
Speaker 1: now analyze with this for me, because I love to
13:39
Speaker 1: just give myself things that are like distracting, but in
13:43
Speaker 1: a good way where it's like I could have chosen
13:45
Speaker 1: to get really obsessed with the trials and I could
13:48
Speaker 1: have chosen to be like singularly focused on that, but
13:51
Speaker 1: I've learned that for me, like it's better if I'm
13:53
Speaker 1: just like, oh, it's just another race, Like I'm gonna
13:56
Speaker 1: take it seriously enough, there's no question about that, and
13:59
Speaker 1: so as if I can approach it like it's another
14:01
Speaker 1: day in the life and it's like something that I
14:02
Speaker 1: don't you know that like the rest of my future
14:06
Speaker 1: doesn't hinge upon the performance there, I tend to do
14:09
Speaker 1: better and so you know, there was no like physical
14:12
Speaker 1: downside of me racing the VK at Broken Arrow six
14:15
Speaker 1: days before the fifteen hundred. Like, honestly, that was a
14:17
Speaker 1: pretty great physiological stimulus, and so physically I was prepared,
14:22
Speaker 1: and so then I look at the mental side and
14:25
Speaker 1: like having that really exciting, super fun experience and like
14:28
Speaker 1: confidence boost going into one of the most you know,
14:31
Speaker 1: important races of my life that I care about a ton,
14:33
Speaker 1: This fifteen hundred at the trials, like that was a
14:35
Speaker 1: really good way actually for me to like come into
14:37
Speaker 1: it with this like feeling of just already being satisfied
14:41
Speaker 1: and knowing that life will go on no matter what happens.
14:43
Speaker 1: And then I ended up running really well.
14:45
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean that's remarkable and such an interesting
14:49
Speaker 3: way to frame the experience For those that aren't familiar
14:53
Speaker 3: what we're referencing here, broken arrow is climbing roughly one
14:57
Speaker 3: thousand meters over.
15:00
Speaker 2: Mile route, give or take. Yeah.
15:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just.
15:03
Speaker 3: A casual one thousand meter climb over three miles, going
15:06
Speaker 3: as fast as possible, shortly before racing just under a
15:11
Speaker 3: mile at your chance to become what would have been
15:15
Speaker 3: your first time Olympics.
15:17
Speaker 1: I think it's also like a good testament to just
15:19
Speaker 1: where I was at in my career, Like I was
15:21
Speaker 1: also at the point where that was my first ever
15:22
Speaker 1: Olympic Trials that I'd be racing at like the odds
15:25
Speaker 1: that I was one of the three that made the
15:28
Speaker 1: Olympic team was quite low. It was my first year
15:30
Speaker 1: out of college. I'd just gone pro. Like, there was
15:34
Speaker 1: no part of me that was like expecting that to
15:36
Speaker 1: be the outcome at all. Like I was going to
15:38
Speaker 1: be thrilled if I made it into the second round.
15:41
Speaker 1: And I did, and that was like a fantastic performance.
15:44
Speaker 1: And so maybe it would have been different if I
15:46
Speaker 1: was like a favorite for that race, like I would
15:48
Speaker 1: have approached it differently, I'm sure, But I was just
15:51
Speaker 1: in that part of my career where it just seemed
15:52
Speaker 1: like a good idea.
15:54
Speaker 2: It just seemed like a good idea. It's my first time.
15:56
Speaker 2: Why not.
15:56
Speaker 3: I've been approaching a lot of challenges lately, I think,
16:00
Speaker 3: and we know that it's human inclination to kind of
16:03
Speaker 3: think of the worst case scenario. But something I've been
16:06
Speaker 3: prompting myself to think lately, if what if it's better?
16:10
Speaker 3: Then I anticipate what if it goes better than I expect?
16:14
Speaker 3: And it sounds like that's a mindset that you can
16:17
Speaker 3: get on board with too.
16:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is funny. I actually like I made an
16:22
Speaker 1: Instagram post about this before the Olympics. How like the
16:25
Speaker 1: biggest thing that I had already learned in the experience
16:28
Speaker 1: of deciding to do Schemo this winter and pursue that
16:30
Speaker 1: path was just that, Yeah, like you always tend to
16:35
Speaker 1: think of things in the what if I fail and
16:38
Speaker 1: instead like trying to reframe it as what if I succeed,
16:41
Speaker 1: And like imagining what those two things look like and
16:44
Speaker 1: comparing them has been like a very useful skill for me.
16:47
Speaker 1: And so you know, I was thinking, what if I fail,
16:49
Speaker 1: It's like okay, what if Yeah, okay, you're gonna not
16:52
Speaker 1: make the Olympics after you just like decided to try
16:54
Speaker 1: like very recently. That's like not that big of a failure,
16:57
Speaker 1: and everyone is going to forget about it very soon
17:00
Speaker 1: and you will move on and you'll find other things
17:01
Speaker 1: to be passionate about. Like that's not that big of
17:04
Speaker 1: a negative. And then what if I succeed, Like what
17:06
Speaker 1: if we do go to the Olympics, and what if
17:08
Speaker 1: we go and we do incredible there? Like imagine all
17:11
Speaker 1: the things that would come with that, And it just
17:14
Speaker 1: like really put this decision into perspective that like, of
17:16
Speaker 1: course I'm going to try. Of course I'm going to
17:18
Speaker 1: try to go for that what if positive? Because it
17:22
Speaker 1: could be so incredible, And I mean I feel really
17:25
Speaker 1: fortunate now looking back on it, knowing that it went
17:28
Speaker 1: the positive direction and that it was like so so
17:32
Speaker 1: worth it, like one hundred times over.
17:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, and looking back, there was also a point in
17:37
Speaker 3: time where you did take a second to decide if.
17:41
Speaker 2: You were prepared willing to go for it.
17:44
Speaker 3: Talk to me about the decision to go all in
17:47
Speaker 3: and what was that turning point? How did you get
17:50
Speaker 3: your mindset to be at this what's the best that
17:53
Speaker 3: could happen place?
17:55
Speaker 1: This is a complicated question because it was a process
17:58
Speaker 1: for sure. Like I got approached by Cam Smith at
18:02
Speaker 1: Broken Arrow actually twenty twenty five, so just in June
18:06
Speaker 1: last year, and he was the one who brought the
18:08
Speaker 1: idea to do SCHEMO to me and said basically like
18:12
Speaker 1: we want you to try, we being the US chemo team.
18:16
Speaker 1: And I kind of like had this itch then that
18:18
Speaker 1: I just like had this curiosity and I wanted to
18:20
Speaker 1: figure out what it could lead to. And I could
18:23
Speaker 1: feel Cam's excitement and so at that point I was like, Okay, yeah,
18:26
Speaker 1: like I'll try. Sure, sounds great and I kind of
18:28
Speaker 1: like organized my summer and fall to make these camps
18:32
Speaker 1: work with the US chemo team and to be able
18:34
Speaker 1: to kind of integrate like the practice and the training
18:36
Speaker 1: that I needed into my already like crazy trail running schedule.
18:40
Speaker 1: And all that time I didn't really think about like
18:42
Speaker 1: the gravity of the situation that like, you know, we
18:45
Speaker 1: were actually trying to make the Olympics until it actually happened.
18:47
Speaker 1: And then we made the Olympics, and it was like
18:49
Speaker 1: this moment of like sheer insanity where it was like whoa,
18:52
Speaker 1: we just did that, Now what? And I had to
18:54
Speaker 1: like wrap my mind around the fact that like I
18:57
Speaker 1: was new and I don't know what I'm doing, and
18:59
Speaker 1: I'm going to race at the biggest race in the
19:01
Speaker 1: world on this massive stage, and like finding the confidence
19:06
Speaker 1: to do that has been one of the wildest journeys
19:08
Speaker 1: I've ever been on in my life. Like it has
19:11
Speaker 1: been crazy, and I like I still like don't even
19:15
Speaker 1: really know exactly like how I like came to terms
19:18
Speaker 1: with it and like came up with that, but it
19:20
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, it was some days were good, some
19:22
Speaker 1: days were bad, and I like doubted myself a lot,
19:25
Speaker 1: and it just like came together on that day, in
19:27
Speaker 1: that moment, and it was great.
19:46
Speaker 3: I want to dig into that because there are certainly
19:49
Speaker 3: so many takeaways that anyone listening to this can garner
19:53
Speaker 3: from that journey to harnessing the confidence that you knew
19:58
Speaker 3: was within you some where. How did you even begin
20:03
Speaker 3: to cultivate that positive conversation when thoughts of self doubt
20:10
Speaker 3: are inevitably flying.
20:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing was just
20:16
Speaker 1: trying to make sure that I was like doing everything
20:18
Speaker 1: that I could to prepare myself, because a lot of
20:21
Speaker 1: my self doubt was like really revolving around like physical
20:27
Speaker 1: parts of the race with Schemo. Like, I was not
20:30
Speaker 1: worried about my fitness because I have been training hard
20:33
Speaker 1: and applying myself for a very long time to like
20:36
Speaker 1: get to the fitness level that I'm at, and so
20:38
Speaker 1: like I was not worried about that transferring over into
20:41
Speaker 1: the Schemo world. I also am like a very competent
20:43
Speaker 1: downhill skier and I grew up ski racing, and so
20:46
Speaker 1: I was not particularly afraid of the descents at all.
20:48
Speaker 1: Like that was something I really actually was enjoying coming
20:51
Speaker 1: back to and like trying to push myself to go
20:53
Speaker 1: faster and you know, relearn how to race gates again
20:56
Speaker 1: like I was doing when I was ten. And I
20:59
Speaker 1: think like the part that was was a hang up
21:01
Speaker 1: for me was the transitions, which are these like very
21:04
Speaker 1: fine motor skills and like things that the athletes I
21:07
Speaker 1: was racing against, the Olympics have been practicing for years
21:11
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know a matter of seconds to
21:13
Speaker 1: like put your skins on, take your skins off, put
21:15
Speaker 1: your skis on your backpack, put them back on again.
21:18
Speaker 1: And I had none of those skills at the very
21:20
Speaker 1: beginning of this, So like in July of twenty twenty five,
21:23
Speaker 1: I had none of them, and so I needed to
21:25
Speaker 1: figure out how to do them. And I basically just
21:26
Speaker 1: like made myself a schedule for like when I would practice,
21:30
Speaker 1: and I just practiced like in my yard or in
21:32
Speaker 1: my house, and then as soon as the snow flew,
21:35
Speaker 1: I was doing it outside. And just knowing that I
21:37
Speaker 1: was like giving everything that I could to be physically
21:41
Speaker 1: prepared gave me like a lot of kind of confidence
21:45
Speaker 1: to like overcome the doubt that I had around those things.
21:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were looking at what was happening around you
21:52
Speaker 3: and using it as evidence, and often times when our
21:57
Speaker 3: thoughts spiral, we allow that to overtake what it is
22:02
Speaker 3: that we know to be true. So looking at the
22:04
Speaker 3: evidence in front of you enabled and empowered you to say,
22:08
Speaker 3: I am practicing this, and I know with the tools
22:12
Speaker 3: in front of me that I will do the best
22:13
Speaker 3: I can with what I have.
22:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think like a big realization that
22:18
Speaker 1: I came to also was like, Okay, I'm maybe not
22:21
Speaker 1: the best at transitions, like that is definitely my weak point,
22:24
Speaker 1: but like I just got third place at Trail Running
22:27
Speaker 1: World Championships, Like I have fitness that some of these
22:30
Speaker 1: other athletes don't have that like they're working hard to get.
22:32
Speaker 1: And so it was just this like realization and awareness
22:36
Speaker 1: that like I was behind in one area, but that
22:38
Speaker 1: didn't mean that I was behind overall, and like, you know,
22:41
Speaker 1: we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and that like
22:43
Speaker 1: the reason that we go to these races and we
22:45
Speaker 1: push ourselves in race against other people is to like
22:49
Speaker 1: you know, figure out like where we all match up.
22:51
Speaker 1: Like that's the fun part. And so we don't know
22:54
Speaker 1: that going in, and so I just kind of like
22:56
Speaker 1: tried to get curious about like, Okay, well, how can
22:58
Speaker 1: I use my other strengths to like kind of overcome
23:01
Speaker 1: the weaknesses that I have.
23:03
Speaker 3: What I'm hearing you say is that you looked at
23:06
Speaker 3: your discomfort even when it felt challenging, as an opportunity.
23:13
Speaker 1: Totally, yes, And I think I like I reframed that
23:16
Speaker 1: at one point, you know, somewhere along the way, and like,
23:19
Speaker 1: at first it was terrifying to think about how unprepared
23:22
Speaker 1: I was, and then it got really fun and I
23:24
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'm actually just really curious, like how
23:26
Speaker 1: much can I improve by the time the Olympics come around,
23:29
Speaker 1: Like and knowing that I would be as good as
23:32
Speaker 1: I could have been at the Olympics because I had
23:34
Speaker 1: been training so hard and like working so hard in
23:36
Speaker 1: this like mental state, but also knowing that there's like
23:39
Speaker 1: still such a long journey, Like I have so much
23:41
Speaker 1: training I can still do to like become better at
23:44
Speaker 1: this sport. I have so much to learn and so
23:47
Speaker 1: much experience I still need to get. And I think
23:49
Speaker 1: that part is like genuinely just so exciting, like I
23:52
Speaker 1: get to go find that out if I like continue
23:54
Speaker 1: to try.
23:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I continue to try, which clearly you're doing.
23:58
Speaker 3: You also brought up a great point that you have
24:02
Speaker 3: this really special level of fitness because of the other
24:05
Speaker 3: training you're doing. There's no doubt that running is complementary
24:10
Speaker 3: to the endurance that schemo requires. But what else would
24:14
Speaker 3: you say about your background as a professional runner really
24:18
Speaker 3: lent itself to this windr Olympics experience.
24:22
Speaker 1: I like this question. I think a really big one
24:24
Speaker 1: that people maybe don't fully pick up on or would
24:28
Speaker 1: think about, is that there's a lot of tactics in
24:30
Speaker 1: schemo similar to tactics on the track. And I remember
24:34
Speaker 1: in my first mixed relay at the World Cup race
24:37
Speaker 1: in Solitude where Cam and I qualified the US for
24:40
Speaker 1: the Olympics. I like, in the first forty five seconds
24:44
Speaker 1: of that race, there is so much jostling because like
24:46
Speaker 1: twelve women go off the start line at the same time,
24:49
Speaker 1: and you're all elbowing each other because it becomes turney
24:51
Speaker 1: and there's like obstacles that you're going around, and so
24:53
Speaker 1: everyone is trying to be on the same line at
24:57
Speaker 1: the same time. And like there's a lot of tactics
24:59
Speaker 1: in figuring out where you want to be in the pack,
25:01
Speaker 1: and like are you going to go out hard? Are
25:03
Speaker 1: you going to you know, go out easier and save
25:06
Speaker 1: some for the end. And just like the positioning was
25:09
Speaker 1: something that I actually felt really comfortable with, and I
25:11
Speaker 1: think that that would have been like a moment of
25:12
Speaker 1: total panic if I had not racetrack, but instead I
25:15
Speaker 1: was like, oh, like I love this, like I do this.
25:18
Speaker 1: This is fun, you know, like I got all excited
25:19
Speaker 1: about just like kind of the elbowing and the tactics
25:22
Speaker 1: and like just the competitive element of the race. I
25:25
Speaker 1: think that, yeah, raising the fifteen hundred, which is like
25:28
Speaker 1: so tactical really translated for me.
25:32
Speaker 3: It's so interesting as well, because yes, tactical elbows flying
25:36
Speaker 3: in both, but in Schemo you have skis on. Like
25:41
Speaker 3: I'm just thinking about how different it is when all
25:43
Speaker 3: you have to do is navigate your body weight versus
25:45
Speaker 3: when you have to think about all the things that
25:47
Speaker 3: are flying around you in this other competition.
25:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts and also like
25:53
Speaker 1: things that can break other than your body, which is
25:56
Speaker 1: just like a lot to think about. You know, like
25:57
Speaker 1: you don't want someone to step on your pole because
26:00
Speaker 1: you might be in a place where you can't get
26:01
Speaker 1: a poll given to you and so like you don't
26:04
Speaker 1: want to break any equipment. It is all pretty fragile,
26:07
Speaker 1: and so, yeah, you're thinking about a lot of things
26:09
Speaker 1: when you're like jostling with people. But fortunately, I think
26:12
Speaker 1: like a lot of that came natural to me just
26:14
Speaker 1: from yeah, skiing my whole life, and yeah, doing lots
26:18
Speaker 1: of different types of ski racing over the years.
26:20
Speaker 3: What would you say is one piece of advice for
26:23
Speaker 3: the hurdlers, and that's what I call my listeners out
26:26
Speaker 3: there who feel like they have to put themselves in
26:29
Speaker 3: a box to be successful at one thing.
26:32
Speaker 1: I would say just that you have to sift through
26:36
Speaker 1: the people that you look up to, but that there
26:38
Speaker 1: are lots of people out there who are proof to
26:41
Speaker 1: you that you can be outside the box, that you
26:44
Speaker 1: can do all the things that you want to do,
26:46
Speaker 1: whether that's like being an athlete and something else, you know,
26:50
Speaker 1: starting a business, having a family, Like there are so
26:52
Speaker 1: many things that you could do simultaneous to your career,
26:57
Speaker 1: your athletic career, and there are people who are demonstr
27:00
Speaker 1: that all around you that I think, like can just
27:03
Speaker 1: be an inspiration.
27:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, so keep your eyes open and really be willing
27:08
Speaker 3: to have some grace with yourself along the way, is
27:12
Speaker 3: what I'm hearing.
27:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
27:14
Speaker 3: I also appreciate, as you echoed so beautifully before, this
27:18
Speaker 3: acceptance of being a beginner and maybe not being the
27:21
Speaker 3: best at everything, that you brought a little bit of
27:24
Speaker 3: that playful energy with you when you went to the games.
27:28
Speaker 3: Talk to me about how that played out in real life,
27:30
Speaker 3: bringing the play into the scheme of things, especially with
27:33
Speaker 3: your teammate.
27:34
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, I mean we were there, it was obvious,
27:38
Speaker 1: like which other athletes there were enjoying themselves and which
27:41
Speaker 1: ones were not having the greatest time. I think I'm
27:45
Speaker 1: really proud to have left the Olympics feeling like Cam
27:49
Speaker 1: and I had the best time possible, Like it would
27:51
Speaker 1: not have been possible for us to have more fun
27:53
Speaker 1: than we had. And I'm really fortunate to have a
27:56
Speaker 1: teammate who was on board with like that being our
27:59
Speaker 1: race plan, just just like go out and enjoy it
28:01
Speaker 1: and have as much fun as we could. I think
28:04
Speaker 1: we were able to keep things really light because we
28:06
Speaker 1: both have some similar perspective, and for me, especially like
28:11
Speaker 1: I don't know, showing up to the games and knowing
28:13
Speaker 1: that like I had not even dreamt about that opportunity
28:17
Speaker 1: a year before, was like, Okay, I've already done it,
28:20
Speaker 1: Like there's literally nothing to lose, and so I just
28:23
Speaker 1: want to go out and I want to have the
28:24
Speaker 1: best time and I want to have a huge smile
28:26
Speaker 1: on my face and let people know that I'm like
28:29
Speaker 1: so happy to be here. And I think Cam, like,
28:32
Speaker 1: while he's been racing Schemo for the last ten years
28:34
Speaker 1: and is like way more integrated with this circuit than
28:36
Speaker 1: I am. I think he just brings like a very
28:39
Speaker 1: similar approach to the way that he competes all the time,
28:42
Speaker 1: Like he just is in it for the same reasons
28:44
Speaker 1: as me, which are like to enjoy yourself and to
28:47
Speaker 1: bring people along for the ride and connect with people
28:49
Speaker 1: along the way, and yeah, just have fun with it.
28:53
Speaker 2: Would you say that that's what makes you a good teammate.
28:56
Speaker 3: I mean, he could have chosen anyone, right, He's a
29:00
Speaker 3: veteran at this point, but he made the conscious decision
29:05
Speaker 3: to ask you to go at this the first time
29:08
Speaker 3: that Schemo has been in the Winter Olympics.
29:12
Speaker 1: I do I think it's a combination. I think it's
29:14
Speaker 1: like the fact that I show up and I'm generally
29:17
Speaker 1: racing with a huge smile on my face, and I'm
29:18
Speaker 1: not that intense in that environment. And then simultaneously the
29:22
Speaker 1: fact that I'm also extremely competitive, where like I don't
29:26
Speaker 1: budge when when it's time, like in the race, I'm
29:29
Speaker 1: extremely focused. And Caam has watched me compete a ton
29:32
Speaker 1: and he knows that about me, that like, I am
29:34
Speaker 1: going to give it everything that I have. And I
29:36
Speaker 1: think he knew that I would do that at the
29:39
Speaker 1: World Cup so that we could try and make it,
29:41
Speaker 1: and I knew like he knew I would do that
29:42
Speaker 1: at the Olympics too, and I will keep doing that
29:44
Speaker 1: anytime that we race together.
29:46
Speaker 3: Sometimes when you hear that that I am someone who
29:50
Speaker 3: both is a fierce competitor and also knows the importance
29:53
Speaker 3: of finding the joy, you hear that and you wonder
29:57
Speaker 3: if those two things can always exist.
30:01
Speaker 2: Do you believe that they can?
30:04
Speaker 1: I think that they can always exist. I mean I
30:06
Speaker 1: think that in our athletic journey as individuals, like there
30:10
Speaker 1: will always be moments where you feel less competitive than others,
30:13
Speaker 1: or moments where like you are having less fun than others,
30:16
Speaker 1: Like I'm not always on cloud none and super stoked
30:21
Speaker 1: on life and on my race and all of that,
30:24
Speaker 1: and I'm not always like just so focused and so
30:28
Speaker 1: locked in like it's it's a constant process. But I
30:31
Speaker 1: try to put myself in positions where like those two
30:33
Speaker 1: things can both be maxed out at the same time,
30:36
Speaker 1: because that's where like the magic happens for.
30:38
Speaker 2: Me, max out on effort and max out on joy.
30:41
Speaker 3: We talked earlier about the lactic building up in between
30:47
Speaker 3: your goes during the race. Let's talk a little bit
30:50
Speaker 3: about how you recover in the middle of your two effort.
30:54
Speaker 3: What does that look like in practice during a schemo race.
30:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I will say I'm still refining this because
31:02
Speaker 1: I have only done it a handful of times. What
31:05
Speaker 1: I did at the Olympics was that I took my
31:08
Speaker 1: skis off, and there's lots of things that kind of
31:10
Speaker 1: need to happen to like reset before you go again.
31:13
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, your skis come off, and we have
31:16
Speaker 1: a wax tech there who if there's like treatment that
31:19
Speaker 1: needs to be done on the skis, they'll do that
31:21
Speaker 1: and then also do treatment on the skins, and so yeah,
31:25
Speaker 1: sometimes they're like applying a little bit of wax, they're
31:26
Speaker 1: brushing stuff out, like making sure everything is good to go,
31:30
Speaker 1: and so there's a couple of minutes that are like
31:31
Speaker 1: put towards that, and then I like just put a
31:34
Speaker 1: coat on and I walked around and I tried not
31:36
Speaker 1: to pay attention too much to what was going on,
31:37
Speaker 1: but was like looking at them up there, like, oh
31:39
Speaker 1: my gosh, we're doing amazing. This is crazy. And then
31:42
Speaker 1: after the wax tech is done kind of doing their
31:45
Speaker 1: thing with our equipment, like we will refold all of
31:47
Speaker 1: our skins and put them back in the pouches that
31:51
Speaker 1: are on the front of the race suit, and so
31:52
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like, yeah, letting the heart rate
31:54
Speaker 1: come down. I take in a little bit of nutrition,
31:57
Speaker 1: So I like took some Morton drink mix in the middle,
32:00
Speaker 1: and then yeah, I just walk around and get ready
32:02
Speaker 1: for the next lap. Goes by really fast. It's wild minutes,
32:06
Speaker 1: but it feels like maybe three at the most.
32:09
Speaker 2: Out the most.
32:10
Speaker 3: And it's a through line here, because yes, we're talking
32:13
Speaker 3: about recovery in the middle of this super intense race.
32:16
Speaker 3: But then we also gave this example earlier about going
32:19
Speaker 3: from Broken Arrow to the Olympic Trials, so you've had
32:23
Speaker 3: to really learn a lot about the best way to
32:25
Speaker 3: recover your body because you are someone that likes to
32:30
Speaker 3: do it all.
32:33
Speaker 1: This is true. I've become an expert in recovery.
32:37
Speaker 3: When we then take that other example of the broken
32:41
Speaker 3: Arrow to the Olympic Trials, duo there, what did that
32:44
Speaker 3: time period look like for you?
32:45
Speaker 2: Those six days in between competition?
32:48
Speaker 1: Gosh, not much happened. I mean I did have to
32:51
Speaker 1: travel from California. I was in Tahoe for Broken Arrow,
32:54
Speaker 1: and I had to travel up to Eugene for the trials,
32:58
Speaker 1: and I took a over and Bend. Actually, I like
33:02
Speaker 1: spent two days in Bend and kind of just like
33:03
Speaker 1: let my nervous system calm down. That's somewhere I was
33:06
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time at that point and had
33:08
Speaker 1: like a comfortable place to stay, and it was just
33:10
Speaker 1: like some friends to go get coffee with and go
33:12
Speaker 1: for an easy run with, and just was like a
33:14
Speaker 1: very mellow place to kind of yeah, reset and check
33:18
Speaker 1: out from the racing world. And then I like check
33:19
Speaker 1: back in when I got to Eugene, and I was
33:21
Speaker 1: staying with a bunch of Brooks teammates there and so
33:24
Speaker 1: I just yeah, jumped straight from like Brooks Trail right
33:27
Speaker 1: into the Brooks Beasts, and it was like this very
33:29
Speaker 1: seamless experience. But honestly, like not much happened from a
33:34
Speaker 1: physical standpoint, Like I did a couple jogs here and there.
33:37
Speaker 1: I might have done like one super light workout just
33:39
Speaker 1: like a couple speeds and things. But yeah, it was
33:41
Speaker 1: more just about like kind of making sure that I
33:44
Speaker 1: had a chance to like decompress in between the two events.
33:47
Speaker 3: You bring up a really important point, which is the
33:51
Speaker 3: nervous system recovery. The mental recovery. Is this something that
33:54
Speaker 3: you've always had a handle on of how important it
33:58
Speaker 3: can be to your overall performance.
34:01
Speaker 1: It's something I've gotten a handle on, I think towards
34:04
Speaker 1: the end of my time in the ncable A, I
34:05
Speaker 1: was like picking up on this like other thing that
34:08
Speaker 1: was going on with my body in my mind that
34:10
Speaker 1: like it was not physical, that like I had these
34:14
Speaker 1: crazy lows like after really big highs, and that that
34:17
Speaker 1: was just something that like I needed to like give
34:18
Speaker 1: myself and I needed to schedule time for in order
34:21
Speaker 1: to like then get back to training faster and like
34:23
Speaker 1: be able to go up again. So I was sort
34:26
Speaker 1: of starting to pick up on it in college and
34:28
Speaker 1: then as I've been a professional. I think it's become
34:30
Speaker 1: really obvious because I put so much into these events
34:34
Speaker 1: that I'm competing at that like it's just like simply
34:37
Speaker 1: not sustainable, Like I can't put that much in and
34:40
Speaker 1: then think that I'm just going to come out the
34:41
Speaker 1: other side the exact same and just be able to
34:43
Speaker 1: keep pouring out of the cup that's half empty. And
34:46
Speaker 1: so I'm like, I'm honestly really proud of this journey.
34:49
Speaker 1: Like I think now I have this like very good
34:51
Speaker 1: handle on the fact that like depending on the intensity
34:55
Speaker 1: of the race experience and I'm not talking like the
34:57
Speaker 1: race itself, but like everything else outside of that, like
35:00
Speaker 1: the you know, the people that I interact with, and
35:03
Speaker 1: like the media exposure and all of that, like and
35:05
Speaker 1: how much I care about it, and like what happens
35:07
Speaker 1: to your hopes and dreams after you complete this thing
35:11
Speaker 1: depending on like the size of those things, Like the
35:13
Speaker 1: length of this period of like feeling a little bit
35:17
Speaker 1: off is longer. And so it's been actually like quite
35:20
Speaker 1: big after the Olympics, to be honest, like this has
35:22
Speaker 1: been a crazy time coming off of that high and
35:25
Speaker 1: just like yeah, figuring out like how to kind of
35:28
Speaker 1: like bring my nervous system back down and just like
35:30
Speaker 1: get back to like regular regular life. But that's honestly,
35:34
Speaker 1: like one of the parts that I really love about
35:36
Speaker 1: this whole journey of like doing sports. It's just exciting
35:39
Speaker 1: and you never know exactly what to expect and you
35:41
Speaker 1: always have to just be adapting to it.
35:43
Speaker 3: What has that looked like for you in practice, recognizing
35:47
Speaker 3: that yes, there are still things that need to happen,
35:50
Speaker 3: and you also need to take time to give back
35:53
Speaker 3: to yourself so that you can then come back and
35:56
Speaker 3: fill up your cup again.
35:58
Speaker 1: I think people in my life who like watch we
36:00
Speaker 1: go through this would have a better answer for you
36:01
Speaker 1: than I do. But it's lots of like getting really
36:04
Speaker 1: excited about things and I'm being like, oh wait, I'm
36:06
Speaker 1: really tired, and I don't really want to do that,
36:07
Speaker 1: and like it's just this like every day is different,
36:10
Speaker 1: Like I had this crazy energy sometimes and then other
36:12
Speaker 1: times I'm like I don't really care, I don't really
36:15
Speaker 1: want to do that, and so just like riding that
36:17
Speaker 1: out until it's like back at this like steady line
36:20
Speaker 1: where like okay, I'm good now, like I'm ready.
36:22
Speaker 3: You were talking about how in college there were some
36:25
Speaker 3: struggles that you had participating in the NC DOUBLEA, and
36:30
Speaker 3: some would go through those hardships and make the decision
36:34
Speaker 3: that they don't want to continue. What was it about
36:37
Speaker 3: running and sport altogether that encouraged you to persist on
36:42
Speaker 3: even when things weren't always going as you'd hoped.
36:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me was in
36:50
Speaker 1: those moments of like feeling really low and like being
36:52
Speaker 1: really frustrated with how running was going, or frustrated that
36:55
Speaker 1: I couldn't run because I was hurt. I just had
36:58
Speaker 1: this like awareness that well, it's bad right now because
37:03
Speaker 1: I can't run, and so like when I can run,
37:05
Speaker 1: it's going to be great again. And like it just
37:07
Speaker 1: felt like, well, stepping away from running isn't the answer,
37:10
Speaker 1: Like then I'm gonna have to go through all these
37:12
Speaker 1: other things, like giving up this sport that I'm obsessed
37:15
Speaker 1: with and that's so fun and brings me so much community,
37:17
Speaker 1: Like that's not the answer, because deciding to not do
37:21
Speaker 1: it just means that I'm gonna have other things that
37:23
Speaker 1: I have to overcome, Whereas like if I just stick
37:26
Speaker 1: with it, then eventually I will get back to that
37:28
Speaker 1: joy that I like miss so much, and so I'm
37:30
Speaker 1: going to keep taking that path, and then like the
37:32
Speaker 1: next time it happened, I'm like, yeah, like taking that
37:34
Speaker 1: path was so worth it last time, because look at
37:36
Speaker 1: all these things I did since then, And it just
37:38
Speaker 1: does this kind of snowball effect of just continually opting
37:42
Speaker 1: in because I just knew that there was like more
37:45
Speaker 1: for me with the sport, and I'm so glad that
37:49
Speaker 1: I did because it has turned into like incredible things
37:51
Speaker 1: that I could have never imagined as a college athlete.
38:11
Speaker 3: Talk to me about the path to becoming a professional,
38:13
Speaker 3: What did that look like for you?
38:16
Speaker 1: Oh gosh. I mean I would say it looked like
38:18
Speaker 1: it was never a given. And I think that that's
38:20
Speaker 1: something that college athletes need to hear, Like I think
38:23
Speaker 1: they hear stories where they think that they have to
38:26
Speaker 1: be the star in order to eventually be a professional,
38:30
Speaker 1: and that is just not how it really works for
38:33
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Like some people are stars. Some
38:36
Speaker 1: people it's just like easy and perfect and they know
38:38
Speaker 1: it's going to work out, and others like take the
38:41
Speaker 1: craziest paths to becoming professional athletes. And I would say
38:45
Speaker 1: mine was somewhere in the middle, Like I did sign
38:47
Speaker 1: a pro contract right after I raced to NC double
38:49
Speaker 1: A's my sixth year of being in the NC Double A.
38:52
Speaker 1: And so it worked out great. Thanks to Brooks for
38:55
Speaker 1: like connecting with me and believing in my dreams and
38:58
Speaker 1: just like being excited about me going in all these
39:00
Speaker 1: different directions with my athletic career. But I also like
39:03
Speaker 1: never knew that that was what was going to happen.
39:06
Speaker 1: Like I always had questioned like am I good enough?
39:09
Speaker 1: You know, like are my results enough to get a
39:12
Speaker 1: pro contract? And it was just like I was always
39:15
Speaker 1: trying to simultaneously prepare, like maybe it will happen, but
39:18
Speaker 1: also maybe I'm going to go work in like a
39:20
Speaker 1: law office doing environmental law, which is what I got
39:22
Speaker 1: a grad degree in. Like I was always trying to
39:24
Speaker 1: like balance it and make sure that I had options
39:26
Speaker 1: because I did not know that the running thing would
39:28
Speaker 1: ever come together for me.
39:30
Speaker 3: It's so interesting to think about the two schools of thought,
39:34
Speaker 3: which are a go all in and be relentless on
39:40
Speaker 3: what excites you and then be if you don't have
39:44
Speaker 3: a plan B, then you don't have a plan right,
39:46
Speaker 3: And you're someone who was able to be a bit
39:51
Speaker 3: relentless but mostly adopt if you don't have a plan,
39:55
Speaker 3: B you don't have a plan when you think about
39:58
Speaker 3: that mindset, when you think about your choice to be realistic,
40:04
Speaker 3: would you say that worked for you?
40:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it worked for me, and
40:09
Speaker 1: I guess I should also add like me deciding to
40:12
Speaker 1: put a lot of energy into school and like prepare
40:14
Speaker 1: myself for a potential other career was not just because
40:17
Speaker 1: I wanted to prepare myself and because I was worried
40:19
Speaker 1: that running would not work out. Like I also felt
40:21
Speaker 1: in that moment very passionate about that path and like
40:24
Speaker 1: where I was going with it, and honestly I still do.
40:27
Speaker 1: Like it's just this chapter that's like closed and it's
40:30
Speaker 1: on the bookshelf, but it will come back out at
40:32
Speaker 1: some point and I will probably like work in that
40:34
Speaker 1: space because I'm passionate about it. And so I kind
40:37
Speaker 1: of just was like I was leaning into the excitement
40:39
Speaker 1: and I felt like I was going all in and
40:41
Speaker 1: it just so happened that I was like simultaneously preparing
40:44
Speaker 1: myself for like very different career paths, and so it
40:48
Speaker 1: definitely worked out. I'm really glad that I like let
40:50
Speaker 1: myself just kind of like be a little confused and
40:53
Speaker 1: just be like okay, Like I guess I like these
40:54
Speaker 1: two things. We'll see which one happens, like the moment
40:57
Speaker 1: that I graduate and whichever one. You know. Like, honestly,
41:00
Speaker 1: if I if I had come out and I had
41:03
Speaker 1: finished my time in the NCAA and I had gone
41:05
Speaker 1: into like working in environmental policy in some way, like
41:09
Speaker 1: I'm sure I would still be running. I'm sure that
41:11
Speaker 1: I would still have found my way to being a
41:13
Speaker 1: professional athlete, Like it all would have worked out. And
41:16
Speaker 1: so I think that's just like, that's the message I
41:17
Speaker 1: want to convey, is that you can simultaneously prepare for
41:20
Speaker 1: things you don't know when they're going to happen. If
41:22
Speaker 1: you believe that you can do something, you can and
41:24
Speaker 1: you will.
41:25
Speaker 2: You can and you will. I love that. I love that.
41:28
Speaker 3: And it's not only talking about going toward environmental policy
41:35
Speaker 3: or running. Even within running, we have many choices, which
41:39
Speaker 3: isn't a conventional path either. Talk to me about your
41:42
Speaker 3: decision to simultaneously train both on the trails and on
41:46
Speaker 3: the track.
41:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's funny because this never really felt
41:50
Speaker 1: like a decision for me, Like it was just always
41:52
Speaker 1: what I wanted, and I just didn't know if it
41:53
Speaker 1: was possible like to fit that into like the outside factors,
41:57
Speaker 1: where like I had just always questioned if a brand
42:00
Speaker 1: and would support me in doing that. But to me,
42:03
Speaker 1: like running is just running, and it had always been
42:05
Speaker 1: that way. Like in high school, my track team would
42:08
Speaker 1: literally go run on trails to like do our warm up.
42:11
Speaker 1: We'd show up at the track, which was like right
42:13
Speaker 1: at the base of a mountain, do a track work out,
42:16
Speaker 1: and then like go back to the trails, or we'd
42:18
Speaker 1: like go mid season, we'd drive up to Granteetown National
42:21
Speaker 1: Park and we would like do this eight mile trail
42:23
Speaker 1: run around Jenny Lake, which is like stunning and where
42:27
Speaker 1: people go on vacation. And it was just like that
42:31
Speaker 1: was my experience always, like track and trail were one
42:34
Speaker 1: and the same, and I could train for both at
42:35
Speaker 1: the same time. And I just never saw any reason
42:38
Speaker 1: why that couldn't be true. And so I was just
42:41
Speaker 1: really grateful to like, yeah, connect with Brooks, which saw
42:44
Speaker 1: the same thing as me, and was like, Okay, why
42:46
Speaker 1: don't we try it? Why not?
42:48
Speaker 2: Why not? Why not me?
42:50
Speaker 3: It's so it's so cool, And again it's what you
42:53
Speaker 3: were exposed to right, So it's no wonder that you
42:56
Speaker 3: had this hope, this dream that you could do both,
42:59
Speaker 3: because it's what modeled for you from a really young
43:02
Speaker 3: age coming up in sport.
43:04
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah. I mean also just I think I have
43:08
Speaker 1: to give a big shout out to the people who
43:10
Speaker 1: like helped me see that, like you could do both,
43:13
Speaker 1: and you could do anything, and you don't have to choose,
43:15
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people who like try to
43:18
Speaker 1: preach that specialization is the answer, but there are also
43:21
Speaker 1: people out there who believe the things that I do,
43:24
Speaker 1: which like that definitely got modeled to me, and so
43:27
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for the people who kind of like
43:29
Speaker 1: illuminated that path.
43:31
Speaker 2: If you had to choose, could you.
43:35
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean I have kind of
43:38
Speaker 1: stepped away from the track a bit at this point,
43:40
Speaker 1: like I'm not sure if I'll come back to it
43:42
Speaker 1: or not. I'm kind of just like feeling right now
43:45
Speaker 1: very excited about trail and Schemo and other ski projects
43:49
Speaker 1: and racing my bike and all sorts of other things,
43:51
Speaker 1: and so Jack has kind of taken the back burner.
43:53
Speaker 1: But I don't think that you could pay me a
43:56
Speaker 1: million dollars to do one sport and just like, like
44:01
Speaker 1: I just I burn out so fast. I'd be over
44:03
Speaker 1: it so quick. And I think that just like it's
44:05
Speaker 1: really good for my mental state to just be constantly
44:08
Speaker 1: trying to learn new things and mixing it up.
44:11
Speaker 3: I love how she throws racing her bike into the mix, like,
44:14
Speaker 3: let's just add another modality.
44:16
Speaker 2: Why not? You know? I love it? I love it well.
44:20
Speaker 3: I mean, you've achieved this dream for so many yourself
44:24
Speaker 3: included of becoming an Olympian. So now that you've checked
44:28
Speaker 3: that box, how do you redefine success for your upcoming
44:33
Speaker 3: trail season?
44:35
Speaker 1: Wow? I mean I've been thinking a lot about the
44:38
Speaker 1: upcoming season and just trying to figure out exactly what
44:41
Speaker 1: I'm trying to gain from it and decide whether that's
44:45
Speaker 1: you know, more results, or decide whether that's places I
44:49
Speaker 1: want to go in the world or people I want
44:50
Speaker 1: to race against and race with, or if it's just
44:53
Speaker 1: like simply the experience of like doing it. And I think,
44:57
Speaker 1: you know, coming off with something like the Olympics and
44:59
Speaker 1: on off of just like the trail year that I
45:02
Speaker 1: had last year of just having like one breakthrough after
45:05
Speaker 1: the next, and like a lot of really high level
45:08
Speaker 1: performances that I did not expect for myself to happen,
45:11
Speaker 1: like all in succession. I think that I'm just like
45:14
Speaker 1: kind of in it for like the love of it
45:16
Speaker 1: this season, Like I just want to go to races
45:18
Speaker 1: that excite me and things that are really interesting, and
45:21
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of like, I don't know, taking maybe
45:25
Speaker 1: a little bit of a different path than most people
45:26
Speaker 1: would expect. But I'm really excited to do some races
45:29
Speaker 1: in the US. Like I haven't raced in the US
45:31
Speaker 1: that much because I've been competing on the Golden Trail
45:33
Speaker 1: World Series the last few years and been super committed
45:36
Speaker 1: to that, and I've spent a ton of time over
45:38
Speaker 1: in Europe, and I'm like really curious about going back
45:40
Speaker 1: to some of my favorite races, like the Rut or
45:43
Speaker 1: Pike's Peak. I'm going to do Broken Arrow for sure,
45:46
Speaker 1: but I just kind of want to, like, yeah, experience
45:49
Speaker 1: what we have to offer here in the States, and
45:51
Speaker 1: I'll go race in Europe probably a little bit as well.
45:54
Speaker 3: I really appreciate your affinity for curios I think that
46:02
Speaker 3: it's something that is easy to get lost, especially when
46:07
Speaker 3: we're being a bit complacent. But for you, it seems
46:10
Speaker 3: as though curiosity and joy truly are truly two of
46:16
Speaker 3: your guiding values.
46:18
Speaker 2: Would you agree?
46:19
Speaker 1: I think that's for sure true. I also just think that,
46:22
Speaker 1: like the guiding principles have to be things that are
46:24
Speaker 1: like renewable resources, and I think that curiosity and joy
46:28
Speaker 1: are two of those things. And so I think that
46:29
Speaker 1: they're like things that I've built my entire athletic career
46:32
Speaker 1: on where I'm like, one, I don't do things that
46:34
Speaker 1: I don't want to do, so that's joy, and two
46:38
Speaker 1: like I do whatever crazy ideas come into my head
46:40
Speaker 1: obviously within reason, and I have a coach and I
46:42
Speaker 1: have people who like weigh in and tell me that's
46:45
Speaker 1: insane or that's a good one. But I yeah, I
46:48
Speaker 1: do think that curiosity is like a really big part
46:50
Speaker 1: of it for me, and it's never going to end.
46:52
Speaker 1: Like everything I accomplish is going to make me curious
46:54
Speaker 1: about like what more, like what else? You know, what
46:57
Speaker 1: other different direction can I take to like try out?
47:01
Speaker 3: It's interesting because I guess overarching, you don't do things
47:04
Speaker 3: that you don't want to do, but there are going
47:05
Speaker 3: to be things that you don't want to do that
47:07
Speaker 3: are a part of your training now.
47:10
Speaker 1: Honestly, no, like I don't. I just don't train like that.
47:13
Speaker 1: Like if there's something that I don't well, I don't know,
47:16
Speaker 1: I should say, like my coach and I my I'm
47:18
Speaker 1: coach by David Roche, and he has very very similar
47:22
Speaker 1: principles as me, and so he never gives me training
47:25
Speaker 1: I don't want to do. It's always things I want
47:27
Speaker 1: to do, Like I don't run more than I want.
47:30
Speaker 1: I get to do all sorts of stuff like if
47:32
Speaker 1: something comes up and I'm like, oh, my friends are
47:34
Speaker 1: going to do this cool adventure and I want to
47:36
Speaker 1: be a part of it, Like I will just go
47:38
Speaker 1: do that, and it is always celebrated by him, like okay,
47:42
Speaker 1: And so I don't really feel like there's things in
47:44
Speaker 1: training that I don't want to do. I like don't
47:48
Speaker 1: do them.
47:49
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, And I also appreciate you bringing up
47:52
Speaker 3: David Roach because not only is he your coach for running,
47:54
Speaker 3: but you also worked with him for SCHEMO.
47:57
Speaker 1: I did, Yeah, which is honestly incredible because he's not
48:00
Speaker 1: a skier and so he is like coaching so far
48:03
Speaker 1: beyond his personal experience, and I mean that's also just
48:07
Speaker 1: a testament to like how much of a science man
48:10
Speaker 1: he is, Like he understands physiology and he understands me,
48:14
Speaker 1: and he's also like an incredible coach for the mind,
48:17
Speaker 1: where like a lot of what I've learned as a
48:18
Speaker 1: professional has been from him because he's just been like
48:21
Speaker 1: such a good mentor for me.
48:23
Speaker 3: Some people would hear that he coached you for the
48:26
Speaker 3: Olympics and think that that's absolutely ludicrous. Where did your
48:30
Speaker 3: faith come from in this decision?
48:34
Speaker 1: Definitely just in the fact that, like I could have
48:36
Speaker 1: gone and found a coach who knows more about SCHEMO
48:39
Speaker 1: specific training, but they would not know me, and that
48:42
Speaker 1: like knowing me and like exactly how I work and
48:45
Speaker 1: exactly the year that I've already had that the Olympics
48:48
Speaker 1: was getting like stacked on top of was really really important.
48:52
Speaker 1: And also like that I just take this like long
48:54
Speaker 1: game view where I'm like, yes, i was training for
48:57
Speaker 1: the Olympics, Yes I was training for SCHEMO, but I'm
49:00
Speaker 1: also just training for my life, Like I'm also just
49:02
Speaker 1: training to be a better athlete, and like David has
49:04
Speaker 1: the whole picture, whereas somebody else would only have this
49:08
Speaker 1: like tiny little snapshot of a handful of months, and
49:11
Speaker 1: I just don't think that there's any way in which
49:14
Speaker 1: that would have been the answer for me.
49:16
Speaker 3: When you say be a better athlete, what do you
49:21
Speaker 3: consider to be encompassing of better? And by that, I
49:25
Speaker 3: mean what would you say are your goals in becoming
49:32
Speaker 3: your best self?
49:33
Speaker 2: What does your best self look like?
49:35
Speaker 1: Anna, Oh, that is a massive and terrifying question. I
49:40
Speaker 1: think I want to be a very well rounded athlete,
49:44
Speaker 1: and I want to be a well rounded person, and
49:46
Speaker 1: I think that probably comes through in, you know, the
49:50
Speaker 1: exploration that I've done of different disciplines and types of
49:53
Speaker 1: racing and sports and all of that. But like, being
49:55
Speaker 1: a better athlete to me does not just mean winning
49:59
Speaker 1: the big trail races in the world. It means like
50:02
Speaker 1: also being able to race my bike and like hold
50:06
Speaker 1: my own in a professional women's gravel field. It means
50:09
Speaker 1: going to the Olympics and competing for the US and
50:12
Speaker 1: figuring out how to do schemo better. It means like,
50:15
Speaker 1: I don't know, going to Jackson Hole Mountain Resort with
50:18
Speaker 1: my friends on a Saturday, and like just becoming a
50:21
Speaker 1: better skier and like working on my skills and just
50:24
Speaker 1: you know, following my friends around who are all crazy
50:26
Speaker 1: athletes themselves and just like learning things from them. Yeah,
50:30
Speaker 1: I just I want to be like well rounded, and
50:33
Speaker 1: so I don't think that it comes from any particular
50:36
Speaker 1: performance outcome. It's really just like a feeling in my
50:40
Speaker 1: body of like gaining competence in every category that I'm
50:44
Speaker 1: able to.
50:45
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.
50:46
Speaker 3: You came in fourth in the mixed relay in Milan.
50:53
Speaker 3: With that said, I recently chatted with Caroline Mark. She
50:57
Speaker 3: got the gold in Paris during the Olympics in surfing,
51:02
Speaker 3: and she previous to that, in the first Olympics where
51:06
Speaker 3: surfing was a part, came in fourth herself. Her takeaway
51:10
Speaker 3: from that experience was that coming in fourth is arguably
51:16
Speaker 3: the most difficult mental position to come in co sign
51:21
Speaker 3: what do you think.
51:23
Speaker 1: I appreciate the perspective and also hearing that, because yes,
51:27
Speaker 1: it is difficult, But I also think that I am
51:31
Speaker 1: definitely like the happiest fourth place finisher at the Olympics
51:34
Speaker 1: that there ever was, because I would never have imagined
51:38
Speaker 1: that that would be the outcome from this schemo journey
51:42
Speaker 1: and I am like so thrilled with being fourth place.
51:45
Speaker 1: Like there is I think we see this massive gap
51:49
Speaker 1: between third and fourth because one is a metal, one
51:51
Speaker 1: is a podium, one is not. But ultimately it's like
51:54
Speaker 1: the same gap as between first and second, which everyone
51:57
Speaker 1: celebrates equally, I mean, maybe not quite equally. Let's say
52:01
Speaker 1: second and third. Like it's it's just a gap, you know,
52:03
Speaker 1: It's just the same as like any other position. And
52:06
Speaker 1: I'm like so thrilled with fourth. We like way outperformed
52:09
Speaker 1: what anyone expected of us, including ourselves, and so I
52:12
Speaker 1: am like so so thrilled with it. And I think
52:14
Speaker 1: that like it's just showed me that, like the sky
52:17
Speaker 1: is the limit, Like wow, I hope I come back
52:18
Speaker 1: and do what she did, Like I want to work
52:20
Speaker 1: hard for that.
52:21
Speaker 2: I want to work hard for that.
52:22
Speaker 3: I love that now someone comes to perhaps your social
52:26
Speaker 3: media page, they see an athlete both on the track
52:30
Speaker 3: and the trails, as well as on the meltin. But
52:34
Speaker 3: when you look in the mirror on a what is
52:37
Speaker 3: it that you see looking back at you?
52:40
Speaker 1: I mean, I just see a person. And I think
52:42
Speaker 1: that's like a realization that I kind of went through
52:43
Speaker 1: with this whole Olympic experience that, like everyone at the Olympics,
52:47
Speaker 1: like from the outside, they look like celebrities, they look
52:51
Speaker 1: like the most insane athletes you've ever seen. They look
52:53
Speaker 1: like someone who's so different from you, And then when
52:56
Speaker 1: you're there, you're like, oh wait, I'm just a person
53:00
Speaker 1: and I'm here and I'm doing this really cool thing
53:02
Speaker 1: that's super fun and incredible, and like realizing that everyone
53:05
Speaker 1: else is just the same as you, like that was
53:08
Speaker 1: just really cool for me. And so yeah, I mean,
53:10
Speaker 1: I don't see myself any differently after the Olympics as
53:13
Speaker 1: I did before. Like, I'm just I'm just on I'm
53:15
Speaker 1: just still me. I'm just doing what I love to do.
53:19
Speaker 3: Just doing what I love to do, lacing up my sneakers,
53:22
Speaker 3: throwing on some ski boots and calling it a.
53:23
Speaker 1: Day, exactly simple.
53:26
Speaker 3: I actually also really appreciate and I want to just
53:29
Speaker 3: hop on this before I let you go today, the
53:32
Speaker 3: mental side of things that it seems that you've really
53:35
Speaker 3: dialed in on over the last few years. What is
53:39
Speaker 3: it now that you have come to appreciate about your
53:42
Speaker 3: mental game that maybe you didn't have a firm grasp
53:45
Speaker 3: on when you first started.
53:48
Speaker 1: I think maybe just like my awareness of all of
53:52
Speaker 1: these things, like I feel like I was just fumbling
53:55
Speaker 1: through the motions, just like not really aware of what
54:00
Speaker 1: exactly my self belief was, or like where exactly I
54:04
Speaker 1: was confident or where I was like not as confident.
54:08
Speaker 1: And now I'm just like so aware of these things,
54:10
Speaker 1: Like I feel like I have like conversations about them
54:14
Speaker 1: inside my own head where I'm just like I know
54:16
Speaker 1: how to coach myself really well. I know how to
54:18
Speaker 1: kind of like talk myself through the things that get
54:20
Speaker 1: hard because I've seen them happen before, and I just
54:23
Speaker 1: have like learned my own mental landscape and I have
54:25
Speaker 1: like a map where it's like things might go wrong,
54:27
Speaker 1: but I can always get back to where I need
54:29
Speaker 1: to be.
54:30
Speaker 3: The last question for you today, right now, you have
54:33
Speaker 3: an opportunity to offer yourself a piece of advice. Let's
54:36
Speaker 3: go back to that difficult time you had in the NCAA,
54:40
Speaker 3: thinking about is this is as good as this is
54:43
Speaker 3: going to be and going through those moments of injury
54:46
Speaker 3: and set back. Knowing what you know now, Anna, what
54:50
Speaker 3: advice would you give to your younger self going through
54:52
Speaker 3: that Hurtle moment.
54:54
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we talked about this a little
54:55
Speaker 1: bit already, but I would just boil it down to
54:59
Speaker 1: you know that your moment will come, and that's it
55:03
Speaker 1: because you just do it. Sometimes you just know and
55:06
Speaker 1: it will come.
55:08
Speaker 3: And it will come, and when it comes, you'll be
55:10
Speaker 3: ready for it. I love that.
55:12
Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for your time today, Anna. For
55:14
Speaker 2: those that.
55:14
Speaker 3: Aren't following along with you just yet, give us your info.
55:19
Speaker 3: Where can we find you online?
55:22
Speaker 1: The best spot is probably just on Instagram, which is
55:25
Speaker 1: my name's Anna Gibson with an extra A on the
55:28
Speaker 1: end of Honor, an extra N on the end of Gibson.
55:31
Speaker 3: I'm over at Emily a Body and at Hurdle Podcasts.
55:35
Speaker 3: Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.