Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / MOHAMMED HIJAB: Allegations & Cults (ft. Mohamed Ali)

Transcript

MOHAMMED HIJAB: Allegations & Cults (ft. Mohamed Ali) · After Maghrib 🌙

• 0:00
  Salaam and welcome back to Aftermath, Bron, the sisters.
• 0:02
  Hope you're well, inshallah. Hope you've had a fantastic
• 0:05
  week. If you tuned into the podcast
• 0:07
  last week, you'll know that we talked about hijacked
• 0:09
  masculinity and toxic influences, the ways in which
• 0:12
  people have manipulated masculinity for their own
• 0:15
  purposes and their own gain. And that includes influencers
• 0:18
  online and throughout the week. We've seen a video in the last
• 0:22
  few days that includes the likes of a very certain and particular
• 0:26
  famous, well renowned online that were speaker or preacher
• 0:31
  who's allegedly abused his authority as a spiritual leader
• 0:35
  and as someone of knowledge. And that's kind of led us on to
• 0:38
  have this conversation today where we're going to be talking
• 0:41
  about abuse of authority, spiritual abuse and so on.
• 0:44
  So it's a fantastic conversation as always.
• 0:46
  I cannot do it by myself. I'm joined by my brother, my
• 0:50
  dear, respected Muhammad Ali. Abu Ammar, congratulations on
• 1:05
  the birth of your son. Thank you so much.
• 1:06
  May Allah bless him, protect him.
• 1:08
  I mean, how? How are you?
• 1:10
  How's it been? Bro, it's been crazy obviously
• 1:13
  like I was expecting you to like reach over and say Salaam to say
• 1:16
  the Ali, but obviously. I don't know who talking.
• 1:18
  About me, I've got. A bit.
• 1:20
  I have no idea who you're talking about.
• 1:22
  Yeah, man. Welcome to the Fatherhood club,
• 1:24
  man. It's nice to have a host with
• 1:25
  me. Everyone's father's here now,
• 1:27
  isn't it? I'm just we need to pray for Mr.
• 1:29
  By. Inshallah, man.
• 1:31
  Inshallah, yeah. Allah granted my noble wife
• 1:34
  Salaam Alaikum. Salaam, I was going to say we
• 1:37
  have a very special guest joining us today, said Ali.
• 1:40
  Rather with Salaam, Alaikum said welcome to after Magda.
• 1:43
  It's. A pleasure to be beside.
• 1:46
  Lovely to have you on the podcast.
• 1:48
  How long have you been engaging with our content and what is
• 1:52
  your views on Aftermarket? June 2022.
• 1:55
  Wow, he's he's. Right from the beginning.
• 1:57
  One of the early ones and I engage.
• 1:59
  Loyal, loyal supporter, yeah. 100% number one die hard fan
• 2:04
  Marshall it's a. Pleasure to have you an honour
• 2:07
  always. Inshallah.
• 2:08
  But you know what, as much as I love you, said Ali, my Co host
• 2:12
  is irreplaceable. I'm an Ali.
• 2:13
  Yeah. So, you know, we're we're very
• 2:15
  honoured to have you join us as a guest today.
• 2:19
  I can't do this. I can't do it no more.
• 2:21
  I'm sorry, bro. I'm sorry.
• 2:22
  How you there bro? Hamdullah, I'm good.
• 2:24
  How are you? I'm good, I'm good.
• 2:26
  Hamdullah, Hamdullah, I'm good. I'm happy that we now have a
• 2:31
  father beside us, welcomed to our club.
• 2:34
  Welcome to the club, yeah? Bro, I can't lie, if it was that
• 2:38
  special then I should have got the big man chair.
• 2:40
  But obviously I said Ali has obviously swiped for that today.
• 2:45
  She is. She is with the night, with the
• 2:48
  with the newborn night shifts. You need a comfortable place to
• 2:51
  sit and rest. It's true how often you getting
• 2:53
  up? I can't like on and off.
• 2:57
  It's different every day. It's just you don't you just I
• 3:01
  don't know what to expect every day.
• 3:03
  I guess in that some days it's really like no sleep at all, but
• 3:07
  then other days it's like it's OK, but because I'm on paternity
• 3:11
  leave it's OK anyway because I sleep through the day.
• 3:13
  No routine. It's no routine.
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  No routine. How many hours of sleep are you
• 3:18
  getting would you say on average?
• 3:19
  No, I'm, I'm actually sleeping enough, I think in terms of
• 3:22
  hours, but it's through the day. So it's really, yeah, yeah,
• 3:26
  yeah. It's messing up my whole
• 3:27
  routine. Sometimes I'll just be watching.
• 3:29
  Like the other day I was trying to watch a debate and I just
• 3:32
  fell asleep between between. On what?
• 3:37
  It was it was to do with it was to do it was an Islamic debate,
• 3:40
  basically a Shia, A Shia Shia debate.
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  And they were just discussing like duck lead and some other
• 3:47
  things like that. And yeah, I just fell asleep
• 3:50
  while I was watching it. So you.
• 3:51
  Fell asleep. Yeah, you know, I mean, I kind
• 3:54
  of like, it wasn't that interesting to me.
• 3:57
  So, yeah, I've been falling asleep here in there.
• 3:59
  But Hamdullah, man. You're good.
• 4:01
  You're here. It's.
• 4:01
  A crazy. It's an amazing experience.
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  We made it Shala Baraka and everything and you know.
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  And Shala protect him always guided towards Huck and Shala
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  and Shala. Alright guys, let's talk about
• 4:13
  this. So as I mentioned in the last
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  few days, we've seen a video come out that first came out
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  from a group of bloggers in the US who had been contacted by a
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  sister who raised the case allegedly against Muhammad
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  Hijab. OK, who of course we've
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  mentioned on the podcast in the past.
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  And he's someone of of great influence.
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  He's not just well known in the Islamic scene online, but also
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  in the Western scene. Now, of course, with his
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  appearances in Oxford Union on the Pierce Morgan Uncensored
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  show and other places as well, obviously his relationship
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  online with Andrew Tate, so on and so forth, he's developed an
• 4:52
  online personality. For those of us within this year
• 4:54
  community, we know that we're not his biggest fans and he's
• 4:57
  not ours. And that's because there's an
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  extensive history of debates and kind of dialogue between him,
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  whether you want to call it dialogue between himself and
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  different representatives of this year school of thought.
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  But we're not talking about that today.
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  And I don't think that that his polemical history with Shia has
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  has much of A role to play in this conversation, which is
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  talking about abuse of authority in in the space of spiritual
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  leaders specifically. Now, what I want to say as a
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  disclaimer, brothers and sisters, before we go any
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  further, is that all three of us are not experts in abuse of any
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  sort or none of us have studied this or are professionals in
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  this field beyond that as well. We would highly, highly
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  encourage anyone who's experiencing any form of abuse
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  to reach out to a professional who can support you and who can,
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  who can observe your situation and be able to be the best judge
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  of whether your situation needs to be escalated and whether it's
• 5:49
  it's something which you may need to contact authorities for.
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  So please make sure you do that and please do not take any sort
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  of abuse lightly. And inshallah we pray everyone
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  is doing well. Muhammad, where do you where
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  should we begin on this topic? I think the the topic of
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  spiritual abuse is quite, it's a wide topic.
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  So when we're speaking about specifically the video of
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  Muhammad Hijab, of course these are alleged statements.
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  There's been a like some sort of response and obviously there'll
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  be an investigation that goes on that will show us the complete
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  extent of what's like what's actually happened.
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  But when we look at this individual like in and of
• 6:27
  himself, there are videos of him and as you mentioned, he has a
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  relationship with Andrew Tate and other individuals that have
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  very strong views with regards to gender dynamics with regards
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  to women. And I think those relationships
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  already place a, a question mark there that when you see these
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  things happen or these things be him be accused of these things,
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  it, it doesn't come as a shock, right?
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  When you watch some of their videos Recently I saw a video
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  where he was speaking about marriage and someone he is
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  people that he's been marrying off and how easy marriage is.
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  Oh, this? Is the McDonald's one?
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  Yeah, exactly. And, and he was, he was laughing
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  in it. He was making light of the
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  situation, these kinds of like mannerisms in general towards
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  women. I think that's where all of
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  these things kind of stem from. And when we're talking about
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  Mohammed Hijab specifically, and when you look at the the wider
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  community as well, there's been many scandals.
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  This is not the first. This is not the first one at
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  all. Like you have that part fat.
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  I think he's like a Bosnian or something Sephardic.
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  I don't know if I'm saying it correctly, but he had the
• 7:41
  investigation done, done into him where he had a lot of like,
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  you know, he he had, I think sexual assault claims, many like
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  different claims that were made against him and investigated by
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  human appeal and he was found to be guilty.
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  So, you know, there were and there's been many others as.
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  Well, would like one individual. I think it was multiple
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  individuals and there was like there was mention of sexually
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  transmitted diseases and things like that, which is for a card
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  of the Quran, a famous card of the Quran.
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  Like it just doesn't. It doesn't even make sense.
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  As to how shouldn't make sense. How how those things are
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  happening. So I think it's a much wider
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  issue than just Muhammad Hijab. Of course, Muhammad Hijab is
• 8:23
  just one kind of piece of this whole picture.
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  Yeah, of course, of course. And it all comes back to this
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  spiritual abuse, that authority that he is perceived to have,
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  right? As somebody that is an online
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  that were a preacher and the sister mentioned in the video,
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  she said he's been praised by scholars internationally, right?
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  So in their minds, they feel like these guys, they, they,
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  they can't go wrong. They can't have a, an Islamic
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  way of acting. They can't be immoral because of
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  that authority that they have. And that's what they use I
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  guess, to manipulate. So this means that that they
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  have a level of trust and then they, they abuse this.
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  And I and I, and I think not just, if we just not just focus
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  on Muhammad Hijab's issue here. I think generally, generically,
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  like I've heard stories, I'm sure you guys have come across
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  things not just in the Muslim world.
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  It could be, you know, in the workplace, it could be, for
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  example, a manager and employee. It can be, for example, a
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  teacher and a student like these things affect every environment,
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  in fact. But what's sad is when it comes
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  to the Muslim community, because we hold ourselves to a very high
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  standard. And if we have, let's say,
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  people looking up to these individuals, be them Quran
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  teachers, be them mother of the teachers, be them speakers,
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  scholars, people from the Taoistine, that level of trust.
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  Do we blindly trust these people or is or or or should we not?
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  Yeah, I mean, but, but, but what, what concerns me is that
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  normally is the people who are victimised in this, it's
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  normally people who have already been victims or something else.
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  So either they've left like a toxic marriage or they've had
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  the very disastrous divorce and they've gone through so much
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  XYZ. They've probably faced an
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  abusive relationship with their first husband and now they're
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  looking to have give a relationship another chance with
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  someone who they look up to and then they manipulate them,
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  mislead them, emotionally abuse them.
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  But what shocks me the most Muhammad, and we spoke about
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  this a bit early on, is that they intentionally lie to them.
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  This is something I don't understand.
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  Like which, which and when he was like hadith and religion to
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  back this false promises. Like where does this stem?
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  From yeah, this is, I think this is the the craziest part about
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  this whole thing. Like when they talk about and
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  looking into the kind of dynamics of, of marriage, I
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  think this is where as followers of the School of Alberta Alayhi
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  Salaam, we have a lot to be proud of and we have a lot to
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  look towards when we're looking at Alberta Alayhi Salaam and
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  their teachings, the way that they just the way they protect
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  women. It's not it's not the case in
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  the opposing schools. So for example, this particular
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  case where the sister, she mentioned that false promises
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  were made to her and that when after the marriage, when she
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  brought this up, the Ulamat said to her, he hasn't done anything
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  wrong right Now, whether that happened or it didn't happen and
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  whether it's that is that principle principally exists in
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  in Sunni fek whereby there's actually even a a stiffed up
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  that was asked by Ibn Baz. Yeah, it was asked to Ibn Baz.
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  And Ibn Baz was one of the greatest scholars, like of like
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  the Salafi, Salafi Olamat, right?
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  He's like considered like one of the highest.
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  Like when you talk about the biggest scholars in the Salafi
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  movement, you're talking about Ibn Baz, Ibn Femin Al Albani.
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  He's like on that level. So Ibn Bazi was asked by a guy,
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  He said, I'm a Syrian worker, I'm going to Saudi.
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  I want to work there for a few months, right?
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  And my wife isn't here. So I'm looking to marry somebody
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  for the period that I'm here, but I'm going to divorce her
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  once I leave Saudi and go back to my hometown.
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  So can I do this or not? Even Baz said yes, you can do
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  that. But the only way it's allowed is
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  if you don't tell the woman that you're going to divorce her.
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  He said why, why? Why can you not tell her?
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  Because if you tell her that I'm going to divorce you in six
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  months, then that's muta, and muta is Haram.
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  So the only way in fact, to do it would be to lie to her, to
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  deceive her. And on top of that, Ibn Baz said
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  in the fatwa, he said, and this is what the majority of the
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  ulema of Ali Sunnah believe in. So even though like you know to
• 12:55
  nowadays when these topics are brought up, Monsieur marriage
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  with intention of divorce, they will bring 1 fatwa of one
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  scholar that said, oh, it's not allowed, perhaps Albani, for
• 13:08
  example, he said it's not allowed.
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  And that's the that's the fatwa that they will die on.
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  But Eben Baz is saying the majority of Al Sunnah ulama,
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  this is what they believed in. Whereas in Shiism and they speak
• 13:20
  about Muta again and again. You guys, you muta, you Shi are
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  you sons of Muta, you daughters of everything like muta muta.
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  But in Muta, at the very least, there's no deceit involved.
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  It's. Honesty.
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  There's no like I'm going to mess around with it's.
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  Transparent. It's transparent at the very at
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  the end of the day, there's a contract.
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  Yeah, there are conditions. Yeah.
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  And the woman knows of the conditions.
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  It's the same way the man knows about the conditions.
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  So at least in in six months or however long that is, she's
• 13:50
  aware of the situations. But here you can literally ruin
• 13:54
  someone's life completely and you'll go to the scholar, the
• 13:58
  woman will go to the scholar and you'll tell her, what can I do?
• 14:01
  Well, it's allowed. It's in the in the fit it's
• 14:03
  allowed. And this is called Monsieur
• 14:05
  Marriage. Yeah, Monsieur, I think is is.
• 14:07
  Or. Monsieur is a bit different in
• 14:10
  that this is marriage without with the intention of divorce.
• 14:13
  Yeah, what we've just spoken about, Monsieur is like a
• 14:16
  different kind of topic. So, Monsieur, is the idea that a
• 14:20
  man can marry a woman where the woman basically concedes some of
• 14:26
  her rights? Yeah.
• 14:28
  So they take this back to an idea that they believe that
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  basically Rasulullah, in his time he married, he married a
• 14:38
  number of widowed women, right. And one of them being, say, the
• 14:42
  soda and say the soda was quite elderly in age.
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  And the other wives of Rasulullah would always be kind
• 14:48
  of like kicking up a fuss about the time that he he spends with
• 14:51
  each of the wives. And the report says historically
• 14:55
  that say the soldier, because she was elderly in age, she
• 14:58
  said, you know what, like, I'm not too fussed about this
• 15:01
  anyway. Yeah.
• 15:02
  So she gave up her Knights with Rasulullah and she said you can
• 15:05
  distribute it amongst other wives.
• 15:07
  So based on this, some of their scholars, they drew this
• 15:11
  principle that you can marry somebody with them conceding
• 15:16
  their rights, basically. And so for example, in Saudi, it
• 15:20
  happens regularly now whereby there's a woman that she's been
• 15:23
  married and then she's divorced and then no one wants to marry
• 15:26
  her like permanently anymore. So this is how they do it.
• 15:30
  There'll be the, a guy will come, he'll do Messiah with her.
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  He won't pay for her maintenance.
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  He won't pay for any of the other.
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  Like, you know, the rights he's not obliged to.
• 15:38
  He's not obliged to. According to that.
• 15:40
  According to that contract, and he'll come and he'll enjoy
• 15:43
  relations basically with her, but he's not responsible for her
• 15:47
  basically. And with the deceit thing, so
• 15:51
  for example, they mentioned obviously that he deceived her
• 15:55
  in trying to act as if he was going to and then he didn't.
• 15:59
  That also allowed according to some scholars, so that Monsieur
• 16:03
  is involved in the conversation, but obviously like from a
• 16:06
  different angle. But the marriage with intention
• 16:08
  of divorce also, that's like a major thing and they've used it
• 16:12
  so many times and all they might allow it and it ruins people's
• 16:15
  lives. Yeah, no, I think there's,
• 16:20
  there's a few things that come to mind.
• 16:22
  Firstly, I think there's, there's a massive issue with the
• 16:23
  reverence. So for example, revering figures
• 16:27
  of authority. And look, this happens amongst
• 16:31
  men and women. So, for example, as human
• 16:33
  beings, we have a tendency to look up to people who we
• 16:36
  consider to be high in knowledge, high in eloquence,
• 16:39
  high in, you know, precision of, of an accuracy of, of
• 16:43
  information or whatever it is. So the same thing goes with with
• 16:48
  sisters who look up to men typically, because men typically
• 16:51
  tend to be in these positions. And obviously men may look up to
• 16:54
  sisters who they think are, you know, superior in certain
• 16:58
  qualities as well. But with the reference that then
• 17:00
  leads on to abuse, there's an issue on on mainly on the abuser
• 17:06
  when it comes to egoism. So for example, they'll have a
• 17:08
  level, a Lego like an egotistical core, a narcissistic
• 17:13
  core where they think it's OK for me to manipulate people
• 17:15
  because I can manipulate the knowledge I have and they'll
• 17:18
  believe it. So for example, Allah says the
• 17:20
  holy of Quran, he addresses this directly and harshly in sort of
• 17:25
  the Bakra I #44 where Bismillah Rahman Rahim, he says how can
• 17:29
  you tell people to do what is right and forget to do it
• 17:32
  yourselves even though you recite the scripture?
• 17:34
  Have you no sense so allies speaking harshly to Tamil?
• 17:38
  Knowledge, Tamarone and Asabel Berry Watson, so on and.
• 17:44
  Yes, yeah, a fella is the last. Have you no sense?
• 17:49
  So it's a very, very, very like direct and harsh criticism of
• 17:53
  people who in this verse recite the Quran.
• 17:55
  And as as far as I understand, it's not just recitation the
• 17:58
  Quran, but understanding and the consumption of the Quran as part
• 18:01
  of yourselves. And then obviously manipulation
• 18:03
  of people who look up to you and people who you are interacting
• 18:06
  with. And according to this verse,
• 18:08
  telling people to do what is right you're doing.
• 18:10
  I'm going to build Maroof to people who are looking for
• 18:14
  knowledge, but they're manipulating that knowledge.
• 18:16
  But reverence is the key issue here.
• 18:17
  So, for example, people revering people to such a degree where
• 18:21
  you see them as flawless, as infallibles, as faultless, as
• 18:25
  being incapable of doing any harm.
• 18:27
  We should always be taking a pinch of salt with anyone.
• 18:30
  And like you said, said Ali, not just obviously people in
• 18:33
  positions of religious authority, but people in
• 18:35
  positions of any authority. That includes like people, like
• 18:39
  you said, people in your workplace, people in, in, in
• 18:42
  other institutions, education or whatever it might be.
• 18:45
  Obviously, we've seen this issue time and time again in the
• 18:47
  Catholic circles, OK? And that's obviously a huge,
• 18:50
  huge. That's a good example to give.
• 18:52
  The fact we're in the UK, Yeah, if you think of it, parents
• 18:55
  trust their kids to go to church and what, what not.
• 18:59
  And then years down the line to find out they were abused, for
• 19:01
  example, like this at all today is shocking.
• 19:05
  Like if I hear the radio, I still see the news today.
• 19:07
  Parents come out and say our kids just opened up to us when
• 19:12
  they were young and now they're 40 or 50 and they've been
• 19:15
  suffering from this trauma and they can't speak to no one.
• 19:17
  And do you know what it is a lot, sorry, say, but I was just
• 19:19
  going to add something you something you said earlier,
• 19:21
  which I agreed with is that a lot of these times the victims
• 19:24
  of abuse have been mistreated sometimes, not all times,
• 19:29
  because obviously everyone who goes through that has had a
• 19:31
  first instance. But in many cases, people who
• 19:34
  are more vulnerable to forms of abuse have experienced something
• 19:36
  in the past, either childhood trauma or past relationship or
• 19:39
  something of those forms, right. In those cases, when they open
• 19:43
  up to a personal knowledge, let's say a scholar or someone
• 19:46
  in this case, like a YouTube preacher, whether or whether or
• 19:48
  not it's true, there's two sides to every story.
• 19:50
  But let's say any preacher, someone with a.
• 19:53
  Position of authority, right? So when they open up to these
• 19:55
  people, they're opening up, they usually exposing personal
• 19:58
  details, they're usually experiencing stories, they're
• 20:00
  usually experiencing dates, times.
• 20:02
  They're, they're exposing their emotional flaws as well.
• 20:06
  And they're, they're trusting their deepest and most intimate
• 20:10
  secrets with someone. And assuming that these people
• 20:14
  are, are, are in many cases like a brick wall, I can talk to them
• 20:18
  like a brick wall and they won't reflect or consume what I'm
• 20:21
  saying. And they they will, will be non
• 20:23
  judgmental about what I'm telling them.
• 20:25
  That's not always the case. She saw what I'm saying.
• 20:27
  So even when this information is shared with people, in my humble
• 20:31
  opinion, it should be shared with a level like there should
• 20:34
  be a veil in what you're saying to people of positions of
• 20:37
  authority. In any case, even for those who
• 20:39
  are going through messy divorces, people who have been
• 20:42
  abused. We've talked a few months ago
• 20:44
  about narcissism would say what the fuck?
• 20:45
  Because we, he talked about very, very like specific
• 20:48
  examples and sometimes like really heinous crimes that
• 20:52
  people have committed in positions of authority, even
• 20:54
  people of family, you know? And in those cases, when you're
• 20:57
  speaking to a scholar, trust the scholar, do your research, do
• 21:00
  your background research, maybe gain a few credible sources and
• 21:03
  references about the scholar themselves before you engage
• 21:06
  with the scholar. When you speak to the scholar,
• 21:08
  drip freed information, see how they react, and then obviously
• 21:11
  position yourselves accordingly to how the scholar responds to
• 21:15
  you. And also I think what's really
• 21:18
  sad is that in communities that we are in, so for example, the
• 21:22
  South Asian community, whether that be Shia or Sunni community,
• 21:25
  right? When you look at, for example,
• 21:28
  the Madrasah in, in Bradford, in Luton, and in these places where
• 21:33
  there's a large, basically a large quantity of South Asian
• 21:37
  Muslims, you always hear these stories about abuse in the Quran
• 21:41
  of Quran, madrasahs and all of that.
• 21:43
  And they're in such a high number and so many people don't
• 21:47
  speak out based on the fact that even when they tell people in
• 21:51
  their household, they tell their mother.
• 21:53
  For example, this happened to me at Mother's side.
• 21:56
  They won't believe. What will the mother tell them?
• 21:58
  The mother will tell them. Don't tell anyone.
• 22:00
  You know why I don't tell anyone?
• 22:01
  Because it's a shame for you. Yes, it's a shame for you.
• 22:05
  It's a shame for our family. If you say that this happened to
• 22:09
  you, no one's going to marry you.
• 22:11
  Everyone's going to shame you. You're causing fitna by speaking
• 22:15
  against this person of authority.
• 22:18
  I think that whole like, you know, there's a, there's a
• 22:21
  barrier there between like, you know, the, the, the lay people
• 22:26
  and the people of authority where even like with regards to
• 22:30
  their reputation is so important, their reputation that
• 22:34
  you are expected to just live with the harm that has been has
• 22:38
  been done with you in some of these communities.
• 22:40
  But why do you think that? Why?
• 22:41
  Like what? What do you, what gets it to
• 22:44
  that level? Do you know what I'm saying?
• 22:45
  Because I mean you mentioned like specific madrasas.
• 22:49
  I think, I think there's sun Amia like in in some extent,
• 22:52
  like to some extent there is like a kind of like is sun Amia
• 22:56
  is like idolatry, right? When you take individuals to be
• 23:00
  an ultimate authority, right? Like for example, we read in in
• 23:07
  Zarjammer, we say to the Ahil Bates I disassociate from every
• 23:14
  walidja tinduna com any individual as a authority, a
• 23:18
  complete authority other than you, Ariel Bates I disassociate
• 23:22
  myself from them. I don't consider anybody to be a
• 23:25
  complete authority. I think in our kind of South
• 23:28
  Asian communities as well, there has always kind of been a level
• 23:32
  of Sanam. Yeah, 100.
• 23:33
  Percent right there is that level of, you know, it's you're,
• 23:37
  you're brought up being taught so that these people in in
• 23:42
  positions of authority, whether Shia or Sunni, right, That
• 23:45
  that's the kind of like the culture that you're brought up
• 23:49
  with that and it's not a bad culture in, in entirety.
• 23:52
  Of course, there has to be a level of respect for the people
• 23:55
  in, in, in places of authority. You have to have respect for
• 23:58
  the, the service that they give to the religion and all of those
• 24:01
  things. But that I think that culture
• 24:04
  also contributes to, yeah, feeling like they they will feel
• 24:08
  ashamed or guilty themselves, like as if this must be my fault
• 24:12
  because this individual obviously can't do anything
• 24:14
  wrong. Yeah, right.
• 24:16
  And I think that's a a big problem that like we're still
• 24:20
  kind of getting to the solution for.
• 24:22
  Because being diaspora and being first generation in many cases
• 24:26
  means that old culture kind of mentality, exactly that culture
• 24:30
  kind of spills over as well. And.
• 24:32
  It's a supremacy thing as well, like in a superiority thing.
• 24:35
  Because you think you give in to these, these like, mentalities
• 24:38
  very easily. And a lot of elder generations
• 24:42
  have that like submissive mentality to anyone that they
• 24:44
  deem has positional authority. Exactly.
• 24:46
  That positional authority is not earned and that, you know, it's
• 24:49
  not something that they've earned on merit.
• 24:51
  And, you know, people, people are used to that.
• 24:54
  And to be very honest, you still see that in parts and of, of
• 24:56
  South Asia as well. Yeah, 1. 100% And on top of
• 24:59
  that, even if you go to look at the problems that were caused in
• 25:02
  places like Bradford, there was an individual, he asked him,
• 25:06
  Imam asked him. He was, he was called, he used
• 25:08
  to debate that one man and about more than things.
• 25:11
  This guy he had no, no, not Khadi asked him, that guy's a
• 25:15
  different guy. This guy's he's called, Imam
• 25:16
  asked him, he's a Bradford guy. And he had a scandal as well.
• 25:19
  He he abused some child or something like that.
• 25:23
  But the the worst part is when they want to even like deal with
• 25:27
  the issue, the way that they deal with it is they bring like
• 25:30
  the elder scholars. Yeah.
• 25:32
  And they all kind of sit in a meeting and then they punish the
• 25:35
  guy and they tell him, OK, now you have to take off your like
• 25:38
  the equivalent of your imam or whatever and you can't come to
• 25:41
  the mosque for this long and you can't give kotoba for this long
• 25:44
  or whatever. But even the correct authorities
• 25:47
  are not gone to like they don't even contact the police.
• 25:49
  They just want to sort it out between them.
• 25:51
  Internal. Between themselves.
• 25:53
  So you see, like all of these cultures, I think they, the, the
• 25:56
  culture, I think is, is what is what really contributes more to,
• 26:00
  to abuse. And that's why like it, there
• 26:02
  needs to be some sort of systems that are transparent and like
• 26:06
  you said, behind the veil to be able to kind of go through these
• 26:09
  things. Obviously human appeal did that
• 26:11
  investigation, a detailed investigation into the
• 26:13
  individual we mentioned earlier, the Paret Paret Fatih, and
• 26:17
  they've done an amazing investigation.
• 26:19
  Like you can see the level of detail there.
• 26:21
  And independent organisations like that in every community
• 26:24
  are, are necessary, you know, so that so that people can get
• 26:27
  their justice, have some somebody to speak to and are not
• 26:30
  afraid of their reputation being harmed.
• 26:34
  Because at the end of the day, unfortunately that is that's
• 26:37
  just how it is. Like, you know, societies are
• 26:39
  like that. So yeah, there definitely needs
• 26:41
  to be these systems in place. Well, there has to be systems
• 26:44
  and I think sometimes I may be wrong in saying this, but I
• 26:47
  think sometimes the people who fall trap to this become victims
• 26:51
  to this. I think that because they try to
• 26:56
  keep things in secret, things private, I, I think they allow
• 26:58
  themselves to be taken advantage of.
• 27:01
  By the way, because for example, let's say, let's this is given a
• 27:04
  scenario, Let's say there's a sister, she's on the topic of
• 27:11
  marriage. She's just had a divorce, what
• 27:13
  not maybe her husband's still abusive or maybe her husband,
• 27:16
  for example, denying her Nafaka, for example, whoever is.
• 27:19
  So she'll go to who she'll speak to someone an authority, someone
• 27:22
  who represents her faith, someone who can become a
• 27:25
  mediator between to do whatever is right.
• 27:27
  So she'll speak to this person and this person speaks back to
• 27:30
  her advice, guidance, back and forth.
• 27:33
  Sometimes this back and forth could be months, it could be
• 27:36
  weeks. 99% of the time is just him and her.
• 27:40
  There is no one else involved by so higher.
• 27:43
  So sometimes I feel like that opens a door or something.
• 27:47
  And of course on both ends. By the way, I don't think for
• 27:50
  example the the male in the scenario purposely wants to
• 27:53
  abuse, but I think he's human as well.
• 27:56
  At the end of the day, Shaitaan is there bro.
• 27:59
  It can affect anyone. And my point is, I don't think
• 28:01
  they purposely do this, but they're in a situation where,
• 28:05
  for example, they may have feelings for someone and they
• 28:09
  want to get close to someone and then they change their mind
• 28:12
  later. She becomes a victim and he
• 28:14
  becomes, you know. Can I just, can I just add like
• 28:18
  2 caveats here? Yeah, but the first one is I
• 28:21
  don't think as in the mass majority of of scholars we'd
• 28:25
  want to believe and I'm sure are.
• 28:28
  Yeah, 99. Percent are doing pious, pious
• 28:32
  individuals. But of course there have been
• 28:34
  cases within the Shiite community and outside the Shiite
• 28:37
  community where we have seen things across the world over the
• 28:40
  course of time, right? That's the first thing.
• 28:43
  The second thing I'd want to say is, is that a majority of cases
• 28:46
  are are where abusers are male. But obviously that's because in
• 28:51
  majority of cases, people in positions of leadership are
• 28:54
  male. There are cases where people are
• 28:56
  in positions of leadership are female and have done the same.
• 29:00
  And I know a personal experience of someone I know in our
• 29:04
  community who, who was a younger man at the time and he had a
• 29:09
  elder sister who try to teach him and mentor him.
• 29:13
  And I know this like, and unfortunately he nearly got
• 29:18
  caught into something really toxic and messed up because she
• 29:22
  tried to manipulate him. Yeah, right.
• 29:24
  I know the story myself. I've heard it.
• 29:26
  I've seen it first hand. Well, at least from from what
• 29:29
  I've been told. And it's just disgusting, bro.
• 29:33
  And there's, there's a couple other things.
• 29:35
  Yeah. I want to mention a hadith which
• 29:36
  I found from from Mamasada Khali Salaam al Kabul kafi where he
• 29:42
  says do not trust the one who seeks leadership with your
• 29:45
  religion or your women. That is such a deep powerful
• 29:50
  statement. Do not trust those who seek
• 29:54
  leadership with your religion or your women right now.
• 29:59
  This is obviously I don't think the Imam is saying have no trust
• 30:02
  in someone who has leadership and religion.
• 30:03
  Don't blindly trust. But don't blindly trust.
• 30:06
  And of course, we have a school of thought which teaches us not
• 30:09
  to blindly trust anyone who's not infallible, right?
• 30:12
  And in such a way, we have to understand that there is no,
• 30:15
  there's no authority in, in the dunya, which we believe is not
• 30:21
  Hajat Allah. And we who we believe is not
• 30:24
  the, the representative of Allah on the earth, right?
• 30:27
  And that of course, in this day and age is only, there's only
• 30:30
  one person that's the Imam of our time, Saheb Allah Azzaman al
• 30:33
  Jalaat al Afar al Sharif. And we believe that he's the
• 30:36
  only one who we have complete and undisputed undivided trust
• 30:39
  in, in the authority and leadership in all cases.
• 30:42
  But of course, even the the greatest leaders of our
• 30:45
  community, we may trust in many cases even with our lives, but
• 30:50
  you must always be smart in the way you talk about these things.
• 30:53
  Yeah. 100% I think also another hadith of Imam sadaq al Salaam
• 30:57
  that also isn't the exact same thing but I think it kind of
• 31:01
  explains this narration further as well.
• 31:03
  Is a narration that is narrated from him by Abu Abu Hamza
• 31:07
  Fomali. Or it might have been from Imam
• 31:09
  Sajjad, I think when we're talking about Abu Hamza.
• 31:12
  But the Imam says iyakawal reassa matala bahadon illa
• 31:20
  halak. Yeah.
• 31:21
  He says that beware of seeking leadership.
• 31:24
  Yeah. No one ever sought leadership
• 31:27
  except that they were destroyed. And the the companion responded
• 31:30
  to Mum Sajad, He said, what do you mean by that?
• 31:33
  Because there's none from us that except that we like to be
• 31:36
  asked questions and we like for people to follow us in our
• 31:39
  knowledge. And he said also everything that
• 31:42
  I know, half of what I know I've learned from other people.
• 31:45
  So what do you mean by that? And the Imam said to him, he
• 31:49
  says, lesa, lesa, hate to try that.
• 31:51
  It's not how you've thought it. He says iyak and tonsuba, rajul
• 31:54
  and dunal, hodja fatusad de ku hoofi kulimakal.
• 31:58
  He says what I'm what I'm trying to warn you of is not of taking
• 32:03
  knowledge from people or following people or even
• 32:05
  answering people's questions. What I'm warning you from is to
• 32:10
  choose an individual and to place him in the position of the
• 32:13
  Imam such that you think that everything he says is.
• 32:17
  True. And it can't be questions.
• 32:19
  It can't be. Exactly.
• 32:20
  So obviously this doesn't negate our following of scholars.
• 32:24
  We are we are ordered by the albeit aim Salaam to follow the
• 32:28
  scholars, the people in authority in other narrations
• 32:32
  with regards to takhleed, with regards to taking our religion
• 32:35
  from individuals. The imams have given criteria of
• 32:38
  the people that we need to take our religion from, but also
• 32:42
  having that caveat of this isn't complete and absolute authority
• 32:46
  like the authority of the infallibles.
• 32:49
  But at the same time, you have to have a lot of respect for
• 32:53
  these scholars and make sure that you you go towards them to
• 32:56
  get your your knowledge. Let me ask a question and I'm
• 32:58
  going to direct this. You said yeah, you know, when we
• 33:00
  talk about spiritual abuse and especially in the sense of
• 33:03
  scholars, do you think that goes and extends beyond the
• 33:06
  interactions that they have with people off the member?
• 33:08
  So for example, on the member, when a scholar is is teaching
• 33:12
  yeah, and preaching, and then there is a knowledge in their
• 33:16
  mind that the audience will more or less believe what I'm saying
• 33:18
  without criticism, right. Or without critical analysis at
• 33:22
  the bare minimum. So scholar may be explaining a
• 33:24
  concept and teaching concept without with the expectation
• 33:28
  that most people believe what he's saying it.
• 33:30
  Do you feel that it is a form of abuse to manipulate people by
• 33:35
  conditioning them with a level of information that they believe
• 33:38
  people will not question? So for example, a scholar who
• 33:42
  abuses people by distorted information or white lies in the
• 33:46
  way they're teaching or preaching something, is that a
• 33:49
  form of abuse as well? I don't think it's just a form
• 33:52
  of abuse if they if they're doing this.
• 33:53
  Spiritual abuse. So for example, if I know
• 33:56
  something is hack, yeah, as a scholar, let's say I've studied
• 33:59
  something, I've researched. I know the full truth, but I
• 34:01
  believe maybe that people won't understand the full picture, or
• 34:05
  maybe I can slightly twist it to my own gain.
• 34:08
  Or maybe I don't personally agree with what I know to be the
• 34:10
  truth, so I'm slightly going to manipulate it such that I
• 34:13
  believe people will accept a more digestible form of
• 34:16
  information. Is that a form of abuse?
• 34:18
  Spiritual abuse. Yeah, or whatever sort of abuse
• 34:21
  you want to call it. I don't know if it can fall
• 34:23
  under the category of abuse, but there's definitely manipulation
• 34:26
  there. There's definitely a whole hack
• 34:28
  there. There is deceit.
• 34:30
  So some people do this, but if it were to happen.
• 34:33
  I think people do do this, but I think.
• 34:35
  I'm gonna disagree. I don't think there's anything
• 34:37
  wrong with that. You don't think that this?
• 34:39
  Yeah, I don't know. I'm not saying.
• 34:40
  Let's think like if somebody doesn't present the full truth.
• 34:43
  Look, if you're holding. I get that.
• 34:45
  You're holding back, you're playing the game.
• 34:47
  I don't think there's a problem. No, no, I agree with that.
• 34:49
  You're purposely manipulating a point.
• 34:51
  If you're. Sway someone's viewpoint or
• 34:54
  something? We live in such, We live in such
• 34:56
  a polarizing community where you have scholars and I'm again like
• 35:01
  caveating again, but I'm saying like you'll have scholars who
• 35:04
  have such polarizing opinions that sometimes they will play
• 35:07
  cards. By the way, this is not just
• 35:08
  scholars. Ahmed, this is not just
• 35:10
  scholars, kids. Yeah, yeah, anyone, Yeah, any,
• 35:12
  anyone who's imparting information of any sort could be
• 35:15
  through social media. Could be the speakers corner
• 35:17
  anyone? Yeah.
• 35:18
  Yeah, yeah. But the reason why I say
• 35:20
  scholars is just as a general sense of people who's imparting.
• 35:23
  I think obviously there's there's a hadith from the Imams,
• 35:25
  Adam Salaam where they say, you know, Kalimu Nas Allahadir
• 35:28
  Holihim, right? Speak to people on the the level
• 35:30
  of the level. And.
• 35:31
  There may be a lot of knowledge that.
• 35:34
  Yeah, so you. You shouldn't you, you or you
• 35:37
  can even present half truths within them.
• 35:39
  And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
• 35:41
  Like, you know, there's even a way out where the imams say
• 35:45
  don't speak to people about that which they don't understand.
• 35:49
  He says, do you wish for Allah and the messenger to be belied?
• 35:52
  Do you want that person to sit there and just be like, you know
• 35:55
  what? That doesn't even make sense.
• 35:57
  What Rasulullah has said there doesn't make sense.
• 36:01
  You would have been the reason for that individual saying a
• 36:05
  statement of cover by saying what Rasulullah said didn't make
• 36:10
  sense. So, you know, there is that
• 36:11
  level of responsibility for the scholar or the speaker on the on
• 36:15
  the member. And I think to be fair, like in
• 36:18
  the time that we live in, I think every speaker knows that
• 36:21
  they will be questioned and criticized.
• 36:23
  I think, you know, back in the day, yeah, I think any speaker
• 36:26
  could have gone on to the member and, you know, said anything and
• 36:29
  people would believe it. But like, even myself now, yeah,
• 36:31
  I've given some magilis in, in, in a, in a center.
• 36:36
  There's a specific individual in that centre and he sits at the
• 36:39
  back. He's a elderly uncle, right?
• 36:41
  He's quite an old man. Every time I finish my lecture I
• 36:45
  calm down and he's got 10 questions for good, good for 10
• 36:48
  criticisms, and that he's my favorite.
• 36:50
  Person, is that my head? Nice half 20.
• 36:52
  He's, he's my favorite. He's my favorite attendee in
• 36:55
  that because I know he's listening every word I said.
• 36:58
  Yeah. And he's got criticism and he's
• 37:00
  got questions. And it helps me to think, yeah,
• 37:03
  and it helps me to come up. Yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna
• 37:05
  play doves. I actually agree with the fact
• 37:08
  that you can't give the truth to all people, especially when
• 37:11
  you've got knowledge to everyone in the crowd, has varying levels
• 37:14
  of Islamic education and obviously are at different
• 37:16
  stages of their journey. If you have children, you have
• 37:18
  elderly and everyone in between. And I do get that.
• 37:21
  I know you want to say a point, and we see this sometimes like
• 37:23
  we listen to certain speakers or on the map, the way they present
• 37:27
  their points, depending on where they are very, they'll give a
• 37:32
  different analysis, a different reading.
• 37:34
  Whether it's at. Least the same thing, but
• 37:36
  different depth of information. I mean, we've been to do that,
• 37:38
  yeah. We've been able to do that
• 37:40
  because we have a podcast. So we've been able to hear what
• 37:43
  someone says, a share or anyone, maybe critique them or play
• 37:47
  devil's advocate or further question and then get further
• 37:50
  explanation. And when they understand that
• 37:53
  maybe there's a desire for a deeper level of understanding,
• 37:56
  then they'll get to that deeper level.
• 37:57
  So I get that, and I get that Scholar has to play the game.
• 38:00
  Yeah. What I'm talking about
• 38:02
  specifically is intentionally twisting what you know to be
• 38:05
  hack. So literally twisting it or
• 38:08
  manipulating it to your own advantage, whether it's
• 38:10
  political game, whether it's affiliations to certain
• 38:12
  organizations or schools of thought or whatever it might be
• 38:16
  such that you then condition a group of people to have a
• 38:19
  certain mindset. Yeah, No, that I think is
• 38:22
  obviously now that I think the way you've positioned it there
• 38:25
  is like there are people that kind of they, they study like
• 38:29
  cult like mentalities, right. They figure out how what it
• 38:32
  takes to be able to control like a certain amount of people.
• 38:36
  So for example, there's that documentary on on on Netflix.
• 38:42
  It's called Wild, Wild Country, I think.
• 38:44
  Yeah. And it's about this individual
• 38:46
  who was in India. Osho, you guys ever heard of?
• 38:49
  Him. No, I haven't.
• 38:50
  No. OK, so this guy, he was like an
• 38:52
  Indian sage in India. Yeah.
• 38:55
  And he started this movement, a cult like movement.
• 38:58
  And he had, like, thousands and thousands of people following
• 39:02
  it. Yeah.
• 39:02
  White people, like, all sorts of backgrounds and their educated
• 39:06
  people as well. He got them to the point that he
• 39:09
  was able to move them all to a state in America, buy some land
• 39:13
  and build, like, a whole, like, area for themselves.
• 39:17
  They took over the elections. They've done all of those
• 39:20
  things. He was able to do that through
• 39:22
  basically taking some truths about corruption and things like
• 39:27
  that are happening and then just painting it a different way.
• 39:29
  And those people, they look at him as now like he's now like
• 39:33
  God to them. Because, you know, you mentioned
• 39:36
  this, I'm going to call these guys out that Ahmadi religion of
• 39:38
  peace. Yeah, I think they're called.
• 39:40
  100% classic Classic example. Of of a group?
• 39:43
  Have you heard of them saying? Tell him the.
• 39:45
  Guys with the hats. The guys with the beanie.
• 39:46
  Assassin's Creed, guys, The way, the way, the way the hoodie is,
• 39:52
  Yeah, it's like you can't see their eyes in it.
• 39:55
  Ohh no but like. Look, I like, I like the
• 39:57
  fashion. Do you know what is?
• 39:58
  Yeah, that. On social.
• 39:59
  They have been and. Look and you don't have anything
• 40:02
  they know as well. Do you know why?
• 40:03
  It's a manipulation of truth of some truths.
• 40:06
  So for example, they will use some a hadith from the school of
• 40:10
  the Yahoo beta Nahum Salaam though is versus the Holy Quran.
• 40:13
  They'll manipulate it to their advantage.
• 40:15
  They'll use certain certain hadiths which talk about proofs
• 40:18
  of the Imam, science of the Imam, all of these things and
• 40:21
  they'll say. Well, look, look, look.
• 40:23
  This guy, this guy here, he's the ambassador of the Imam.
• 40:26
  Now forget that he is the Mehdi. He's not just the Mehdi, he's
• 40:29
  the second Mehdi. For example, like, and and that
• 40:32
  is a clear distortion of what we know to be 100%.
• 40:35
  So for example, that's that's a good example of cut like
• 40:37
  mentalities and mentality, which is spreading like wildfire.
• 40:40
  And what I will say is to viewers out there, you will
• 40:42
  start whether you've seen them or not, you will eventually see
• 40:44
  them online. They comment on all of our
• 40:46
  videos. Yeah.
• 40:47
  And if you are listening, stop commenting.
• 40:49
  We will start to block you. OK?
• 40:51
  Because these guys. We might even do a reputation.
• 40:54
  Of the ones, why? Not and you can do a reputation.
• 40:56
  But when they say the media has a pit?
• 40:58
  The media is a pit. If you watch the TV channel and,
• 41:01
  you know, like the bottom thing like that moves.
• 41:03
  It's like, you know, like, yeah bro, the hadith, bro.
• 41:10
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Holy Quran talks about
• 41:14
  people who misuse the words and in the same way you can do that
• 41:17
  with hadith and if anything is easier with hadith because
• 41:20
  hadith you, there's way more hadith than the other.
• 41:23
  So the Holy Quran and obviously there's more books than just the
• 41:25
  one. And obviously there's different
• 41:27
  gratings of delil and all of these things.
• 41:29
  So how are people going to ever be able to tell what's what in
• 41:32
  it? So they will just manipulate
• 41:34
  masses and you see a lot of their followers are people who
• 41:36
  have suffered. You can tell by by observing
• 41:39
  their characteristics and their behaviours.
• 41:41
  People who have suffered forms of abuse and a lot of the time
• 41:43
  people who have been societal reject like rejects.
• 41:46
  Basically, people have been left out or like destitute from
• 41:49
  inclusion. Like what do you expect?
• 41:52
  So I know we've slightly swayed, but this does come back to the
• 41:55
  fact that people are yearning for a deeper meaning that it's
• 41:59
  yearning for like inclusion. They're yearning for justice.
• 42:02
  And they will look to people who who claim to have knowledge,
• 42:06
  whether that's someone who's a YouTube speaker or whether
• 42:09
  that's someone who claims to be like a messianical figure.
• 42:12
  The point being is that these people claim to have a level of
• 42:15
  deeper knowledge and understanding that you don't
• 42:17
  have. So if you want to get to the
• 42:18
  right place and you want to get to a place where you want to get
• 42:21
  to listen to me, do what I tell you.
• 42:22
  You see what I mean? This is, this is mentality in an
• 42:25
  ideology which has existed for thousands of years.
• 42:27
  Yeah, until now. So we're seeing it evolve.
• 42:32
  So whether it's in in relationships or whether it's on
• 42:34
  a on a cult like group global level, it's still there.
• 42:38
  May Allah protect us all. A lot of the time, these people
• 42:42
  who are in the midst of being conditioned for abuse don't even
• 42:45
  know it. You get me?
• 42:46
  So there are people out there who are being who are being like
• 42:50
  they're in the midst of that journey.
• 42:51
  You hear that video we talked about the beginning, the sister
• 42:54
  who allegedly claims that certain things had happened to
• 42:56
  her that she was abused over the course of four years, if I'm not
• 42:59
  mistaken, right in the in the course of those four years, she
• 43:02
  wouldn't have known if what she has said to be true is actually
• 43:05
  true. She wouldn't have known in that
• 43:07
  period. I have to caveat and that we
• 43:09
  should caveat for the although we're not Muhammad Hijab's
• 43:12
  biggest fans, like we said, but there there's a reputation of
• 43:16
  what she said up until as as of now, when we're recording and
• 43:20
  there's there seems to be like, you know, like another side to.
• 43:24
  This Listen, there's always two sides.
• 43:25
  Yeah, of course about the topic at large.
• 43:28
  Yeah, I think look, when you're when you're talking about the
• 43:30
  alleged case, I think that's not like, you know, obviously it's
• 43:33
  happened in the past week. So it's fresh and that's why
• 43:36
  we're it kind of ties into the topic of spiritual abuse and
• 43:39
  that's why we've brought up. But this is something that's
• 43:42
  happened, as we've mentioned, like across the board.
• 43:45
  And that's why we thought it was important to talk about even
• 43:47
  coming back to something that you said, like, you know,
• 43:50
  manipulating specific situations, like a situation of
• 43:53
  divorce, right? Even there are scandals with
• 43:56
  regards to this in the UK. There's the, the group Salafi
• 43:58
  Publications, there's pubs. Yeah, Shamsi, I've seen that.
• 44:03
  I've seen. What were they done?
• 44:04
  Abu Khadija and these individuals, they, they they've
• 44:07
  been doing divorces for individuals.
• 44:11
  They've been like reciting collar basically, yeah, without
• 44:13
  the credentials to be able to do so.
• 44:15
  And then after that marrying the woman, right.
• 44:18
  Even like some of their big scholars in like Saudi and stuff
• 44:21
  have been like probably gave you authority to to give a divorce.
• 44:24
  Say it just on this topic. Yeah, something that Muhammad
• 44:27
  Ali wrote on WhatsApp earlier, which I just want to make like a
• 44:31
  really important talking point. Red flags on how to spot a cult
• 44:37
  like leader. Red flags on how to spot a cult
• 44:40
  like leader. They demand secrecy.
• 44:43
  OK, So whatever we believe, you can't share it.
• 44:45
  OK, Keep it within our close circle.
• 44:47
  They isolate themselves from the wider share population.
• 44:50
  Yeah. If they want to know what we're
• 44:52
  on about, they don't need to know.
• 44:54
  Keep it within ourselves. They include and evolve
• 44:57
  themselves into their followers life.
• 44:59
  So, for example, things that people are doing within their
• 45:01
  within their personal life, like you said, with marriage, I've
• 45:04
  seen decision making. What Car shall I buy?
• 45:07
  They'll ask a spiritual leader. She saw what I mean to like
• 45:10
  degrees like that, which are personal decisions.
• 45:13
  They'll ask someone for their, you know, what their opinion is
• 45:16
  and and and get that sort. These are sorry, bro, skiing on
• 45:22
  the Alps. Yeah.
• 45:23
  I don't know what cults you're involved in.
• 45:24
  Say what's the I'm joking. I get it.
• 45:28
  I cloaked that. Reference very very good.
• 45:30
  I understood it as well but like these.
• 45:32
  Are red flags another huge one in our community as well with
• 45:36
  regards to cults? Are people that are anti like
• 45:39
  institution, anti like scholarship, anti tackled, anti
• 45:44
  all forms of authority other than themselves?
• 45:46
  Yeah, I agree that that that's a big one.
• 45:49
  I think that's huge because that basically cuts you off from the
• 45:52
  rest of the community. When you've seen in in some of
• 45:54
  these cults that have existed, you'll see there'll be an
• 45:58
  individual in that cult and he'll be in that cult for so
• 46:01
  long and every other community has been spoken against.
• 46:04
  So guess what? Now when that individual has a
• 46:07
  fight within his cult, he's got nowhere to go.
• 46:11
  Now everybody else was deviant and I've had a fight with these
• 46:16
  guys. So now like it comes to the
• 46:19
  point where you have no even standing in Islam anymore
• 46:23
  because now you don't there's nobody that you consider to be a
• 46:27
  good Muslim. That's.
• 46:27
  What I mean by spiritual abuse by manipulating and distorting
• 46:30
  the truth, because you've seen this and we've seen like you and
• 46:33
  I, I know you and I both know people who have been in such
• 46:36
  cult like situations in the last 20 odd years and who have left
• 46:40
  those situations and come out of that and returned to Sadat and
• 46:44
  they've come back and basically said, well, yeah, this is
• 46:46
  messed. I had a friend of mine who's now
• 46:48
  Mashallah like a proper top top top island.
• 46:52
  He said he's like, bro, these guys were teaching me Ying and
• 46:54
  Yang and Chinese spirituality and all of these function and
• 46:58
  all of that. And he's saying that they were
• 46:59
  proceeding this over the hadith and and the knowledge of the
• 47:02
  other people name. Exactly.
• 47:04
  Like that's a huge red flag. That's.
• 47:07
  And this is what I'm allowed to say on the podcast.
• 47:10
  Do you know what I mean? Like, there's a lot.
• 47:11
  There's a lot here. Do you know what I'm saying?
• 47:13
  On top of that as well, even that hadith I mentioned about
• 47:15
  Abu Hamza, the the another, I think Sofiano Binaya is the
• 47:19
  alteration of that hadith and he says it's a it's a different
• 47:23
  kind of alternative. And the Imam says to Sadiq Khofi
• 47:26
  Khuli Makhal were Ted Onas Ile that when you call somebody,
• 47:33
  when you call people towards an individual, that's what he's
• 47:36
  warning him against, right? So for example, if somebody has
• 47:39
  fallen into a cult, if your first instinct is to call other
• 47:43
  people towards your leader, you're in a cult unless you're
• 47:48
  calling towards the Ali bait and saying come back towards the Ali
• 47:52
  bait, you're. In a bit, let me ask you a
• 47:54
  question. You're in a cult, bro.
• 47:55
  This is a question I got for you, Sir.
• 47:57
  Ali. Yeah, $1,000,000 question in
• 48:00
  your own words. I'm joking.
• 48:02
  But how do we spot the difference between those who are
• 48:04
  going to be calling towards the mission of the Holy Imam and
• 48:07
  those who are calling towards the the the what do you call it?
• 48:11
  Following some news, a cult leader.
• 48:12
  How do you spot the difference? Yeah, how do I spot the
• 48:15
  difference when I look at their leader to know if they're on
• 48:17
  hack or not? Yeah, I mean, normally something
• 48:19
  I've, I think I've realized when it comes to this cult things,
• 48:22
  one thing to look out and then something that Muhammad Ali
• 48:24
  actually mentioned very beautifully when he said, for
• 48:27
  example, everyone was wrong except for me.
• 48:30
  Like when you see that happening, that's a huge red.
• 48:33
  Flag 100%. Who are you, Thomaso?
• 48:36
  Who are you? Honestly?
• 48:38
  Like, let's be real. I mean, if we're not calling
• 48:41
  towards a little bit and this is the point you said, this should
• 48:43
  be the biggest red flag, the the hugest red flag.
• 48:46
  So if someone is come if if if let's say Inshallah, the Imam
• 48:49
  reappears Sharif and where and people are are doing that one to
• 48:55
  believe of this mission, right. So for example, Inshallah, let's
• 48:59
  say we have the honour and the privilege of being those who are
• 49:01
  calling towards people who are not Muslim, not Shia, towards
• 49:04
  the part of the Holy Imam. Yeah.
• 49:06
  What determining factors are there to spot?
• 49:11
  I'm not saying how do we spot the Imams, the Imam, but I'm
• 49:13
  saying what differs the message from someone who's calling
• 49:18
  towards a cult leader versus someone who's calling towards
• 49:20
  the, you know, the message of, of the the Imams Ali Muslim.
• 49:23
  Yeah. Any other use in Quran?
• 49:25
  Are they using the Hadith, the, the hadith or a little bit Ali
• 49:28
  Muslim? These are the, I think the, the
• 49:30
  Thaka lane. And if they're not following the
• 49:33
  father Thaka lane, there is 100% something wrong.
• 49:37
  And the, the problem is, I think similar to this Ahmadi cult,
• 49:41
  these, these guys you mentioned, like they can also manipulate
• 49:43
  sometimes Quran and manipulate Hadith.
• 49:46
  Where do you go? Sometimes we have friends,
• 49:48
  right? They they may tell us, you know,
• 49:50
  listen to this guy. Come watch this guy come with me
• 49:53
  to this meeting. Let's go XYZ, right?
• 49:58
  If we spot something. Now you're asking me, how can we
• 50:00
  spot this? But if we spot someone in that
• 50:02
  situation, what do we do? Yeah.
• 50:04
  Is there a duty of responsibility on us?
• 50:06
  That's a mad question. What do you think?
• 50:08
  Percent. I'd like to be honest.
• 50:10
  You know what, I think it's, it's really tough because when
• 50:12
  you say Quran and Hadith, at the end of the day, that is the the
• 50:15
  barometer. Yeah.
• 50:17
  And the Quran speaks about it, right?
• 50:19
  When it speaks about Banu, Israel and you know, the
• 50:21
  scholars and the people that they moved, you had a funeral,
• 50:24
  Kalima and more of it, right? They move the word from where
• 50:28
  how it's supposed to be, and it blames the people.
• 50:31
  Actually, it says to them for the trap.
• 50:33
  Yeah, it says, it says to them, you don't know your scripture
• 50:37
  and that's why you fell into this, into this, into this trap.
• 50:40
  So there is a basic kind of, you know, obligation on everybody to
• 50:44
  know a level of the Quran and Hadith to be able to kind of
• 50:48
  differentiate between like, you know, hack and but how do we
• 50:51
  say, I think, I think if you don't have that, how else are
• 50:54
  you going? To.
• 50:55
  That's the. Thing there's there's no other
• 50:56
  barometer. So how do we save someone that
• 50:58
  doesn't know? Well, you helped them.
• 51:00
  You helped them identify what is hack like as in and This is why
• 51:03
  I feel like media is so important.
• 51:05
  Yeah, was why everyone should subscribe because now, because
• 51:08
  on a level because like how you're going to reach masses.
• 51:11
  Yeah, ultimately the vision is to reach as many people with
• 51:15
  with a version or or like some version of the truth as
• 51:18
  possible. Closest.
• 51:19
  Version. Yeah, the closest version of the
• 51:21
  truth. And even if it's just like a
• 51:24
  mass number of people, but giving each of them a bit of the
• 51:26
  truth is better than like, you know, whatever, like giving them
• 51:30
  a, a few people a distorted version of the truth or whatever
• 51:33
  you do, you know what I mean? Like knowledge and full matter
• 51:35
  of what, who the Imam is, how to spot him, all of that, the
• 51:38
  scriptures as well. Those are important things for
• 51:41
  us to do. Do you get me?
• 51:42
  And that's why like that like and it makes sense the
• 51:46
  obligation falling on the people themselves.
• 51:48
  Otherwise you're screwed. Bro died the death of an
• 51:50
  ignorant. Yeah, 100% and Charlotte will
• 51:52
  will do more episodes in the future.
• 51:54
  Even for the show I've got coming up.
• 51:56
  We can do an episode on how to recognize Imam, the signs of the
• 52:01
  Imam. What makes him different in
• 52:02
  terms of like, because when when you say, you know, calling
• 52:05
  towards himself, obviously the Imam is going to do that, right?
• 52:08
  He's going to call towards himself, of course, of course,
• 52:10
  to the island, the son of Rasulullah and towards Allah.
• 52:14
  But at the end of the day, to the people, it's going to look
• 52:16
  like. That's exactly my point, yeah.
• 52:19
  It's going to look like a guy who's calling towards himself.
• 52:21
  He may be able to perform miracles which people will then
• 52:25
  deemed to be demonic or. Something stuff, it's like when
• 52:28
  you what have you seen that Netflix show The Messiah?
• 52:30
  Yeah, it's literally that. It's.
• 52:32
  Literally that. Do you remember that?
• 52:33
  And that's the whole thing is that that is trying to prepare
• 52:36
  people for a world where it comes to these.
• 52:38
  Demonic You know what my thoughts was on that drama
• 52:40
  series was that I felt like they tried to target us as the target
• 52:45
  audience. Yeah, because I I felt like they
• 52:48
  related so much things to. Why it was a hook?
• 52:50
  Because they had a Messiah called Matty.
• 52:53
  Right. Yeah.
• 52:54
  And they're like, yeah, the Shias will love this.
• 52:56
  But I was I was happy. Obviously he didn't reappear in
• 52:59
  like between the Rockin and the Mapambi or he reappeared
• 53:02
  somewhere in Syria. They they read some like dead
• 53:04
  report. Next report, it's about yeah,
• 53:09
  yeah, and all of that. Exactly.
• 53:12
  Show up, there was something I wanted to say.
• 53:14
  By the way, there was a point I was mentioning earlier where,
• 53:16
  for example, I said certain people on authority and the
• 53:21
  female they talk a long time can develop interference or
• 53:24
  relationships. I wanted to add something but
• 53:26
  the conversation moved. I just want to take it back
• 53:28
  there for a second. I was going to suggest something
• 53:31
  and the suggestion is don't keep it private.
• 53:33
  Don't keep it secret. Danny, if you have a sibling,
• 53:37
  tell a sibling. If you have a good relationship
• 53:39
  with your parents, tell your tell your mother, tell your
• 53:41
  father. And I think also like those who
• 53:44
  are dealing with, let's say this counselling thing or mediating.
• 53:47
  And because This is why I feel the most things can go wrong is
• 53:53
  during this stage, right? Because there's someone who's
• 53:55
  vulnerable, someone who's looking up to these people in
• 53:59
  the time of difficulty is that that person should make it also,
• 54:03
  maybe with the second person sitting down.
• 54:04
  As well or. If you're talking over the
• 54:07
  phone, there's a third party there in the background.
• 54:10
  If you have certain rigorous things in place, it's
• 54:13
  impossible. To yeah.
• 54:16
  And this is where I think that credit goes to a lot of people
• 54:19
  in our. And we see it working exactly.
• 54:21
  Look at the The thing is when you go to somebody as well, you
• 54:24
  should go to somebody with a proven track record, track
• 54:27
  record, an official platform as well.
• 54:29
  So if we look for example, like may Allah bless him, Sheikh
• 54:32
  Mohammed Hilli, they ignore all these guys are doing incredible
• 54:35
  work and proven track record. And you know, sorted out so many
• 54:39
  people, can I just shout out, so just both of them in specific
• 54:43
  Shali Allah preserve them. They are incredible.
• 54:46
  You know, I had a friend of mine who's going through a specific
• 54:48
  issue, a family issue. Yeah, the guy goes.
• 54:50
  So many people. He goes, he goes, I'm going to
• 54:53
  say which specific share, but because I don't want to in case
• 54:57
  it's not true or whatever, but he goes this share told me that
• 55:00
  this present point in time, he's dealing with seven other
• 55:03
  identical cases to me. So he's like during the day,
• 55:07
  he's got his commitments as a resident island, he's got his
• 55:10
  family life, he's got children, he's taking his kids to school
• 55:13
  this he's got to be a husband. He has to earn an income.
• 55:15
  And beyond that, he's dealing with eight cases, including
• 55:17
  mine. And then that's just my case.
• 55:20
  And on top of that is fundraising charities thing.
• 55:22
  There's got planners, lectures, he's reading, learning,
• 55:25
  research. How do these scholars, Marshall,
• 55:27
  not get the time for it? And then within that you have
• 55:29
  like organizations within our communities which are doing
• 55:32
  things. I know within Stanmore, for
• 55:34
  example, there's a bereavement system, there's a mental health
• 55:36
  system, there's a maternity support system within our
• 55:39
  community in Northwest London. And then in other communities,
• 55:41
  you've, you have individuals or in the widest our community, you
• 55:44
  have individuals online and in person who are offering these
• 55:46
  sorts of services, counselling, marital services, like dealing
• 55:53
  with with with childhood trauma re parenting, which we're going
• 55:56
  to hopefully have an episode on soon.
• 55:58
  Like these are really important things which are general scope
• 56:02
  of knowledge on as a community is not great but is improving.
• 56:06
  And I think these are the conversations that are so
• 56:08
  important to have on after micro.
• 56:09
  Very good as well, because. After microbe like it, it
• 56:11
  tackles that like you know that that middle.
• 56:13
  Best channel on? YouTube 100% we're best on our
• 56:16
  journey to no no how many 6,000,006 million 6,000,000.
• 56:20
  How far? Like we're like, well, we're
• 56:21
  getting like we're getting 100,000.
• 56:23
  We get like 600 a month guys. There's like 52% of you who are
• 56:29
  watching the video, but I'm not subscribed.
• 56:31
  Why, why? Why?
• 56:34
  Brother? If you're this far into this
• 56:35
  podcast, smash it, bro. Smash the subscriber.
• 56:39
  Please watch out for watch out for more.
• 56:42
  We won't we won't start a cult or anything.
• 56:44
  You know what I'm saying? You could join our Instagram
• 56:46
  channels close thing with you know what I'm saying like, well,
• 56:49
  start using the yellow yellow moon emoji.
• 56:52
  That's it. That's how you spot us.
• 56:55
  The after mug, the mug, the beans.
• 56:59
  Like believers, but like. Whoa, I don't know what.
• 57:03
  You're talking about man, said Ali and other winners.
• 57:10
  Is a sick. Name is a sick name.
• 57:16
  What does that mean? That yeah, it's kind of mad.
• 57:23
  Never been there. Yeah, I've.
• 57:25
  Been there with the family. The other walls Now do you know
• 57:28
  when I like that clarification? Do you know when I need to find
• 57:31
  this? I need to find the list when
• 57:33
  said Ali started his his Instagram channel for his
• 57:36
  personal page. Like me, Yeah.
• 57:38
  Oh God. The shit of Ali.
• 57:41
  Yeah, the shit of Ali. I was like when we want the.
• 57:44
  Game. What to call it?
• 57:45
  I was like, I was like, you need to give yourselves.
• 57:50
  I was like, you need to give yourselves names, like for
• 57:53
  example, like you have believers, yeah, Justin Bieber
• 57:56
  or whatever that you know those ones.
• 57:58
  So I was like rather winners, rather wolves, rather we were
• 58:02
  Royals and then like the the Saint Ali 1.
• 58:05
  You know, St. Ali was like shit, I'm proud.
• 58:07
  So Alan vibes Ali vengers. There's like mad ones.
• 58:12
  This is. All Ali vengers.
• 58:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the Saint Ali all over
• 58:19
  it. Yeah.
• 58:20
  Yeah, yeah. Can I also add one more point?
• 58:23
  Last last. This is the one and I think it's
• 58:26
  very important I. Also want to add the point after
• 58:28
  him please. Very quickly.
• 58:29
  Please do you want? To go before me.
• 58:31
  Please go. Ahead.
• 58:33
  Actually, let me go and then you can end because it's, it's
• 58:36
  better to end on your point. I think what's also very, very
• 58:39
  important, I think here is, and we mentioned it at the
• 58:43
  beginning, our perception of women as well, right as as, as
• 58:48
  males. And you know, with the red pill
• 58:51
  movement, Andrew Tate. I think that's an also a very,
• 58:54
  very important part of this conversation.
• 58:57
  And to show you and Hamdulillah is a religion in which we have
• 59:03
  said the Fatima Sahara at the centre of our religion.
• 59:07
  And no matter how bad things get, like if there's a if
• 59:12
  there's a shitty and he wants to say something about women, even
• 59:17
  if he's, yeah, he thinks twice because of that one lady, right?
• 59:21
  So that I think is, is something that is, is very, very important
• 59:24
  as well to keep in mind as she are to study these, these women
• 59:28
  and these personalities and, and Shiism that we hold in high
• 59:31
  regard and that will protect us. I think when you look at other
• 59:34
  schools of Islam, they don't have an example like say the
• 59:38
  Fatima Zahra. I think even when I look back at
• 59:41
  my experiences, for example, I was in university, we did a
• 59:45
  Islam ISOT quiz. I put on the board who is say
• 59:49
  the Tennessee Ahil Jenna, and I've put four options and I put
• 59:52
  the four woman of paradise. And when we said at the end that
• 59:57
  the answer is say the Fatima Sahara, one of the brothers
• 1:00:00
  there, he's a, he's a Sunni brother.
• 1:00:01
  He's a knowledgeable brother. He reads a hadith and he says to
• 1:00:04
  me, where's your evidence for this?
• 1:00:06
  And I showed him a narration in Sahib Muslim and he was like,
• 1:00:10
  oh, I didn't know that. And the reason why they don't
• 1:00:13
  know it is because in their circles say the Fatim Zahra is
• 1:00:17
  never emphasized. Why?
• 1:00:19
  Why is she not emphasized? The more you emphasize Fatim
• 1:00:22
  Zahra? Imagine if every day the same
• 1:00:26
  way every every Friday the same way they say Rasulullah left the
• 1:00:29
  Quran in Sunnah. Rasulullah if the amount of
• 1:00:32
  times they mentioned it been Tamia.
• 1:00:33
  Imagine if every week the the the khatib stood up and he said
• 1:00:38
  Rasulullah said Fatima to Fatima to Mini.
• 1:00:43
  If they said that every week, what's the next question that's
• 1:00:47
  going to come in the minds of the listeners?
• 1:00:49
  What happened to? Her I just just to emphasize on
• 1:00:53
  this as well, I think you're very right.
• 1:00:56
  And sometimes I think it's just one question and I don't know if
• 1:01:00
  they purposely do this, but I feel like they they don't tell
• 1:01:02
  their congregation or their circles because hundreds and
• 1:01:06
  thousands of questions are going to come up. 100%.
• 1:01:08
  And they're all going to come to a conclusion.
• 1:01:11
  The solution is dangerous one. 100% And and I think this is
• 1:01:14
  what I think kind of separates us as well and Hamdulillah to to
• 1:01:19
  have that perspective, that that perspective about women that
• 1:01:23
  enables us to to kind of understand their role in
• 1:01:27
  society, the respect that they have and honour that they have.
• 1:01:30
  And I think that is very, very important to re emphasize as
• 1:01:33
  well for anybody that is listening, Sunni, Shia, whoever
• 1:01:36
  it is because that I think that perception is, is what leads to
• 1:01:41
  a lot of these like, you know, these manipulations and a lot of
• 1:01:45
  abuse that occurs especially against women because that is
• 1:01:48
  the kind of the purpose of the video that we were doing today.
• 1:01:50
  So I thought that was very important to mention as well.
• 1:01:53
  Amazing, thank you for mentioning State Department
• 1:01:56
  Zahra, because now Charlotte, it's the reason for those who
• 1:01:58
  probably are not from the school of Edelbates to go look into her
• 1:02:02
  life and speaking about her greatness.
• 1:02:04
  This great lady was attacked, this great lady was abused, this
• 1:02:09
  great lady, her rice were taken away.
• 1:02:12
  Look into it inshallah. But the point I want to mention
• 1:02:14
  is that, and I, and I think the majority of the issues are like
• 1:02:18
  this case, this alleged case against, for example, Muhammad
• 1:02:21
  Hijab. Why maybe people may speak and
• 1:02:24
  interact with these individuals. They got a beard, they mentioned
• 1:02:29
  verses from the Quran, They debate here and there, they have
• 1:02:32
  a social following, they have platforms, they have people
• 1:02:35
  listening to them. And I think the majority of
• 1:02:40
  sisters who fall trapped to these things, they reach out to
• 1:02:42
  these people, support Muhammad Hijab on one side.
• 1:02:44
  But people similar in this field, even in the Shia
• 1:02:47
  community, don't reach out to these people.
• 1:02:50
  Reach out to the experts, reach out to the people of actual true
• 1:02:53
  knowledge, the professionals like the likes we gave Sheikh
• 1:02:58
  Muhammad Ali as an example. These are the people need to
• 1:03:00
  reach out to, not someone who gives dash on YouTube and you
• 1:03:04
  mention him and then you slide in their DMS and of course, bro,
• 1:03:09
  things will go sideways down the line.
• 1:03:11
  And and normally the sisters say, you know what, we just
• 1:03:15
  wanted advice. We always listen to them.
• 1:03:17
  I don't think they do it. They don't mean anything wrong,
• 1:03:20
  right? But that could trigger something
• 1:03:23
  unwanted, an outcome that's not desired by both sides.
• 1:03:27
  And we always have these stories like, so I don't want to mention
• 1:03:30
  things, but how much times do people reach out, for example,
• 1:03:33
  to aftermath read on things? Oh my God.
• 1:03:36
  We don't have answers. For yeah, daily daily daily.
• 1:03:39
  We try our best right to respond to as much as we.
• 1:03:42
  Can we in the last? We advise them where to go if we
• 1:03:46
  know the answers for it. But go to the right people.
• 1:03:48
  Ask the right people. Inshallah.
• 1:03:50
  Yeah, even. Even with.
• 1:03:51
  Us like we're middle men. Yeah, we're trying to take you
• 1:03:53
  towards the scholars, right? This is not the end of the
• 1:03:56
  journey. Like this is your journey like
• 1:04:00
  to start going towards the scholars and this is the middle
• 1:04:03
  ground. We're literally like, I'm
• 1:04:08
  looking at message requests and sometimes guys, I'm sorry, we
• 1:04:11
  ignore them because we don't know what to say.
• 1:04:13
  Like someone someone damned us asking about I'm going to read
• 1:04:20
  out in case they they're listening but just about the the
• 1:04:23
  rights that a husband and a wife has in the case of marital
• 1:04:26
  issue. Other people asks questions
• 1:04:28
  which we don't need to answer. Like what are our personal
• 1:04:32
  stances and beliefs on different governments and specific
• 1:04:35
  militias? Like that's not our place.
• 1:04:38
  Leave us alone bro. We're just out here trying to
• 1:04:41
  talk about flipping religion. What's the most question that
• 1:04:44
  you get asked personally? About what?
• 1:04:46
  Let's say for example. How the kids those.
• 1:04:49
  Ones no, no, no, no, no. What's the podcast?
• 1:04:53
  You're here, you're a Co host and after Maghrib you're part of
• 1:04:56
  after Maghrib. I'm sure so much that was well
• 1:04:57
  behind the scenes maybe gets the end.
• 1:04:59
  What is 1? One question that will come
• 1:05:01
  repetitive. As in, obviously I'll always get
• 1:05:03
  how's the podcast, how's the podcast and.
• 1:05:05
  Apart from the pod itself. You're smashing it.
• 1:05:07
  Or smashing. It No, no, no, I haven't.
• 1:05:08
  Apart from the podcast, you get any other questions?
• 1:05:12
  I get asked a lot about time management.
• 1:05:16
  Okay. If I'm honest, okay.
• 1:05:19
  I can't. Like I say, I think the same as
• 1:05:21
  well. I get a lot of the same.
• 1:05:23
  How do you do everything? Yeah.
• 1:05:25
  So day-to-day, running a business, family, fatherhoods,
• 1:05:31
  husband, like being all of these things, you're still a husband,
• 1:05:34
  you're still a dad, you're still a son, you're still a sibling,
• 1:05:36
  you're still a friend, you're still a colleague, you're still
• 1:05:38
  to hide them in some. Way and you're doing a podcast
• 1:05:40
  every. Week and on top of that you're
• 1:05:42
  doing something voluntarily like but Allah knows best like I'm
• 1:05:45
  far from far, far from the example which is to be set.
• 1:05:50
  Do you know what I mean? And.
• 1:05:51
  No, you're a great example. No, well, I'm not like there's
• 1:05:54
  examples of people and I always say Muhammad Ali Mashallah not
• 1:05:57
  even hold on. No, no, let me just say this guy
• 1:06:00
  speaks like 14 languages, Yeah. 15 Exaggeration.
• 1:06:05
  He's learning a language. Right now while doing courses
• 1:06:09
  right now while have he's just had a newborn baby, Yeah, he's
• 1:06:14
  studying at the same time, Yeah. He's making formula milk
• 1:06:18
  bottles. Yeah.
• 1:06:19
  And on top of that he still has time to play FIFA torments every
• 1:06:22
  final he's on place FIFA every day bro.
• 1:06:27
  And work full time. And you work full time and give
• 1:06:30
  lectures and. Come on bro.
• 1:06:33
  And you spend hours on your shirt, you spend hours debating.
• 1:06:36
  I don't know what's up. Honestly bro, I.
• 1:06:38
  Summoned waste. This guy, I haven't actually
• 1:06:41
  waste my time. You know what?
• 1:06:43
  Yeah. You know what?
• 1:06:44
  How often I put this guy in his place.
• 1:06:46
  This guy was like today in this place.
• 1:06:50
  Yeah, bro, come on. Yeah.
• 1:06:55
  You put him in this place. I was out of place.
• 1:06:57
  I'm like. I learned.
• 1:06:59
  I learned from you guys. I learned from you guys.
• 1:07:03
  Laura, would you have you man? Thank you so much, Bernardi El.
• 1:07:09
  Bernardi. El Bernardi.
• 1:07:12
  Guys, I love this combo. Yeah, it's good.
• 1:07:14
  It's good, it's good, it's good. Inshallah we'll join the Cult of
• 1:07:17
  the Rather Wolves. I'll.
• 1:07:19
  Be the first one, yeah. But yeah, guys, hope you've
• 1:07:22
  enjoyed the conversation and please forgive us if we've said
• 1:07:25
  anything out of place. And again, we just want to
• 1:07:26
  reiterate the fact that if you are going through something,
• 1:07:29
  make sure we reach out to people, reliable people and,
• 1:07:32
  and, and, and in some cases, maybe even more than one person
• 1:07:35
  who might have specific levels of knowledge to be able to guide
• 1:07:38
  you in the right direction as well.
• 1:07:40
  I want to thank my Co host, Muhammad Ali Habibi and our
• 1:07:43
  guest said Ali, I'm thank you. Have you ever said shallow?
• 1:07:47
  Hopefully see you at some point in the future.
• 1:07:49
  We'd love to do a part to. Charlotte next time.
• 1:07:51
  Charlotte. Let's put the date in the diary.
• 1:07:53
  Yeah, I think we need to make him a regular at some point,
• 1:07:55
  yeah. You know what?
• 1:07:57
  He would be a great host. Great hope can we go and look
• 1:08:01
  into this? Yeah, definitely.
• 1:08:03
  I'm enjoying this chair. I'm going to.
• 1:08:05
  Leave. I've sat there a couple Times
• 1:08:07
  Now and I've really enjoyed it. I.
• 1:08:08
  Had four more, so I forced myself to sit here.
• 1:08:10
  Yeah, yeah. And you've got the you've got
• 1:08:12
  the shelves behind you. Handler came in a good looks.
• 1:08:15
  Really good. Good week, new new look.
• 1:08:17
  By the way, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:19
  This is something much about that people always ask for When
• 1:08:25
  is the store going online? How soon?
• 1:08:28
  Soon. Yeah, sure.
• 1:08:31
  Say do. You say that bro.
• 1:08:32
  You're putting them on. The website is the.
• 1:08:34
  Merchandise is coming out. Bro, where's the merchandise?
• 1:08:36
  Roll again. Which in weeks?
• 1:08:38
  Brochure about this guys we're. Talking about it in the event
• 1:08:40
  there's. You know, if we are, if you guys
• 1:08:43
  are still listening, and just the last thing I want to say is
• 1:08:45
  support after mocking them. Yeah, please, please, please,
• 1:08:48
  please. Whatever you can.
• 1:08:49
  A few pounds a month goes a long way to sustaining our bills.
• 1:08:53
  We're a month behind the rent, I'm being told, which I didn't,
• 1:08:55
  which is not great, but there's an opportunity here to do a
• 1:08:58
  level of Hedmet, which you can do from afar, from the click of
• 1:09:01
  a button from Apple Pay on your phone or whatever it is.
• 1:09:05
  It just goes a long way. There are people, Subhanallah,
• 1:09:08
  yesterday I got forwarded a message about a sister who
• 1:09:11
  joined a certain charity from Melbourne, Australia, and if
• 1:09:16
  she's listening, I'll reward her.
• 1:09:18
  She said that I heard the charity and the work being done
• 1:09:21
  on the podcast and therefore I decided to join the charity and
• 1:09:25
  that charity forwarded that message to me and said thank
• 1:09:27
  you. So like there's work being done
• 1:09:29
  and there's hopefully a domino effect of, of, of service being
• 1:09:33
  done for the wider community. So yeah, guys support the work.
• 1:09:37
  Anything else you. Can become a partner by visiting
• 1:09:39
  after.com Forward. Slash.net, thank you very much.
• 1:09:43
  Ali. All right, Muhammad Ali.
• 1:09:45
  Thank you bro. Bro thank you so much for having
• 1:09:47
  me bro. And we'll see you soon.
• 1:09:48
  Leisure back on you soon after. I'll be back.
• 1:09:51
  I'll be back, bro. Yeah.
• 1:09:52
  Yeah, man. Watch out for me, Maharam.
• 1:09:54
  It's coming. Yeah, hopefully before in
• 1:09:56
  Charlotte as well. Charlotte, I'm still a while
• 1:09:57
  away. May a lot give you talk for you.
• 1:09:59
  It's like so the upcoming Yeah project and shovel.
• 1:10:03
  Chill. All right, guys, we will see you
• 1:10:06
  next week. Take care, Salaam alaikum.