Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Murder of Tori Stafford

Transcript

The Murder of Tori Stafford · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, an eight year old girl
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: disappeared while walking home from school in Woodstock, Ontario, Canada.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Surveillance footage later showed her calmly walking with someone she
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: appeared to trust, but as the investigation got under way,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: things started to unravel in ways no one expected, and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: what followed would grip the country, change how cases like
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: this were handled and leave one family absolutely devastated. This
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: is the story of Tory Stafford.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: True crime podcast.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Warning.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: The following podcasts and material intended for your audience listener discretion. Easy, ez,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: the funk is over. Spring is here. It is have
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: a ry Well, okay, yeah, that's the thing because spring
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: officially is here. And then there's robins outside on the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: grass and snow. So that's my thing is anytime I
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: see a robin, it's officially spring.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: And they're just like so joyful they are. It's really
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: nice to see after a long, hard winter and they.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Just like hop around. It's just like they're vibing.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Honestly, yeah, they totally are.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: But I mean I don't want to like just start
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: talking about the weather. I mean, it's kind of a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: lame intro if we're just like, oh, the weather's nice.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Isn't that the birds are cool? But I do have
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to say the older I get, the more I enjoy
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: just watching birds. It's true.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Are okay, we did actually just order pickleball gear. We did,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: so we're gonna start bird watching and playing pickleball. I'm
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: not entirely sure what that means. Pickleball, though, I think is.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I think before it was more so a thought of,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: like for older people or whatever, but now I think
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: it's it's more like all ages. It's pretty popular, it is.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty popular retire sport too, because
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: it's low impact. But I mean, yeah, bird watching, pickleball,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I golf, you golf?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, I mean I think happening.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I think we're living a good retiree life already.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: We have a bedtime, we eat, we have a supper time, like.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Oh my word, yeah, And we have a lot of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: pepto bismol on hand just in case, you know, got
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to get that heart burned into gestion under control.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: That's a you thing. I do not like pepto.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I don't like it, but man, it works so good.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't enjoy taking that. I usually
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: just avoid it. I'll suffer instead.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: There's like three things you can do that are like
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the best in the world. So like, first and foremost,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you get a pizza, right, and then you'll get the heartburn,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: so then you down pepto bismol, and then after that
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you go over to our Patreon page and sign up
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: to our Patreon just like these amazing people did. This week.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: We have Jason Bledsoe, Ted adrianals Don Desire, Carter Adele Rose,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Sally Everhart Beck, and Sue. They all signed up and
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: they are enjoying one of the three best things you
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: can basically ever do.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. I actually thought you were gonna say, take
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: another pepto, so I was not even prepared for that
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: at all, Like you would need another one after you
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: consume pizza.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I see what you're saying. No, I'm just saying, like,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: don't you think like sitting back, having some pizza, drinking
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: some pepto to make sure you don't have heartburn, and
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: getting some exclusive contact is pretty dope.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sounds like a good night to me.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, I'm pretty proud of that setup.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: That was good.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: You did good, Thank you. It just kind of went
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: on the flys like ooh, I've got this and I
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: just rolled with it.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Pad on the back for my good job.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But that aside, Are you ready for the case today?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: No?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: But yes, no, but yes, okay, Well be prepared. This
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: does deal with a minor and abuse, so heads up
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely have heard this name, and I think
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: that the case may come back to me slightly. But
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: also it's unfortunate because there's a few type of cases
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: like this, so I might be getting a mixed up
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: with another one. So we'll have a listen and we'll
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: hear all about it.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Well, i'll tell you all about this one. And it
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: does start. It's a Canadian case, so it starts in Woodstock, Ontario. Now,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: if you're unfamiliar, it's a kind of place where like
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: not much is really supposed to happen. Like you can
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: think of places all around the world where it's like,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, everywhere, not much as supposed to happen, but
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: you can predict things to happen in certain places, larger cities,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: more crime ridden areas that sort of thing like you
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: can start to predict it, but here it just it
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't so much. The case Stock is situated about an
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: hour and a half outside Toronto. It's a quiet city
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: of roughly forty thousand people. There are residential streets, local schools.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: There's familiar faces all around. It's the kind of place
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: where kids walk home from school, where neighbors know each other,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: where routines are just safe. In two thousand and nine,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: one of those kids who was walking home from school
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: was eight year old Victoria Stafford or as she was
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: commonly known as Tory Now. Tory was born on July
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: fifteenth in the year two thousand two parents Tara MacDonald
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: and Rodney Stafford Now. While she was still very young,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: her parents had separated and Tory lived primarily with her
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: mother along with her older brother, Darren. Life at home
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't always stable though. There were financial struggles, frequent moves,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: and both parents had dealt with substance abuse issues. But
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: through it all, Tory remained exactly what you'd expect an
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: eight year old to be. She was energetic, she was outgoing,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and the kind of kid who would talk to anyone
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: without hesitation. Her family described her as as feisty and
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: full of personality, and also impossible to ignore. She loved animals,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: she didn't mind getting dirty, and she had a natural
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: curiosity that both made her endearing and, as it would
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: turn out, also vulnerable. But despite everything around her, she
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: was just a kid. She was going to school, she
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: was walking home and living a normal life. And on
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: the morning of Wednesday, April eighth, two thousand and nine,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it started like any other day for her. She was
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: going to school. She went to class at Oliver Stephens
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Public School, located on Fifth Avenue downtown Woodstock. Now, the
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: school sat just a short walk from her home, close
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: enough that walking back after the final bell was completely routine.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: It was just normal, and that afternoon, that was the plan.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Tory was supposed to walk home after school, and later
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: she would head over to her dad's place. Nothing complicated,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: nothing unusual, very typical. Now, her older brother, Darren, who
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: was eleven years old at the time, typically walked home
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: with her. However, that day things shifted slightly. Darren decided
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: to walk a couple of younger kids home first, something
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: that would only take a few minutes. The houses were close,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and he figured he'd be gone maybe ten minutes at
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: most before coming back to meet Tory and walking home
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: with her. It was a very small decision that no
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: one would ever think twice about. But when Darren returned
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: to the school, Tory was gone. At first, Darren just
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: assumed that she must have decided not to wait for him,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: that she had already started walking home in her own
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: After all, it was only just a couple of blocks,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and she knew the way herself, so Darren started walking
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: home too. When he got home, he expected to see
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Tory already there, but when he stepped inside the house,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: there was no sign of her. He thought, maybe she
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: could have stopped to talk to someone, a friend who
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: was also walking home, or who knows, or even just
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: taking her times literally smelling the flowers right, But still
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: something didn't sit right. Darren told his mom what had happened,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: That he had gone back to school to look for
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: her and she wasn't there, that she hadn't been waiting
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: like she was supposed to. So as soon as Tara
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: realized that Tory wasn't home, she started calling around, reaching
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: out to friends and classmates to see if anyone had
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: seen her or if she had walked home with anyone else.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Now each call came back the same. No one had
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: seen Tory and no one knew where she was. As
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: more time passed, that uneasy feeling in the pit of
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: her stomach started to grow into something much more that
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: she could not shake off. So, with this sense of
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: dread hanging over them, Tory's grandmother, who lived with the family,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: began searching on foot, checking the nearby streets and usual
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: routes that Tory would have taken. Meanwhile, Tara and Darren
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: got into a car and started driving around the neighborhood,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: slowly making their way through, of course, familiar areas. They're
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: scanning sidewalks or parks and corners where a child might
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: have stopped. They were looking for anything, a glimpse of her,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: someone who had seen her, a small clue that would
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: explain where she'd gone. But there was nothing, no sightings,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: no answers, and no indication of where she might be.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: By the early evening, the situation shifted, and at six
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: four pm police were finally contacted. Now the call was
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: made by Tory's grandmother, and while the delay in the
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: call occurring was an extreme, it was enough to be noted,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: especially in a case involving a missing child. But in
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: that moment, the only thing that mattered was Tory and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that she was gone, And once a missing person's report
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: was made, the response from police was immediate. Now, cases
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: involving children are of course treated with urgency, and from
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the beginning, investigators knew that time was going to be
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a very critical factor here. Officers soon arrived at the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: home and began gathering all the information they could about
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Tory's last known movements, and they worked to establish a
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: clear timeline. That afternoon, they knew Toy had been last
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: seen leaving the school, and without witnesses or evidence suggesting otherwise,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: investigators had to consider basically every possibility, from a child
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: simply wandering off to things that were far more serious.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: But even in those early hours, the lack of information
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: was troubling. There were no leads, there were no directions
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: to follow nothing, and as words spread, the search quickly
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: expanded beyond just the police. Soon members of the community
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: began stepping in two volunteering time to help look for Tory.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Search teams moved through neighborhoods, fields, nearby wooded areas. They
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: even brought in additional resources, including canine units, aerial support,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and organized ground searches, covering much of the area as
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: they possibly could. It even grew into one of the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: largest search efforts the region had ever seen, with people
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: determined to find any sign of the eight year old
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: who had seemingly vanished without a trace. But despite the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: scale of the effort, nothing was found. No clothing, no backpack,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: no indication of where she'd gone after leaving the school grounds. Nothing.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It was as if she just simply vanished.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: What a terrible feeling. I'm thinking that the mom probably
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: just thought that she got an invite or something from
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: a friend at school and was like at a friend's
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: house or something.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is possibility, as I guess she's.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Phoning probably all these places and everyone has the same answer.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: You're just like, your heart is just sinking. And then
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I also feel so bad for her brother because he
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: probably I can only imagine how upsetting this is for
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: an eleven year old that was supposed to walk his
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: sister home, right, and she should have waited, And oh,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's already so sad.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: It would be a gut punch for absolutely everyone in
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: my opinion, Yeah, Now, one of the early points of frustration,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: both for the family and the public, was the fact
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: that an AMBER alert was not issued. Now, at the time,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: the system operated under very strict criteria, and investigators needed
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: confirmation that a child had been abducted, that they were
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: in immediate danger, even or that there was enough descriptive
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: information to justify a widespread alert. Now, in Torre's case,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: those conditions hadn't yet been met. There was no confirmation
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of an abduction, no suspect, and no clear description to share,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and so because of that, no Amber alert was issued.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: That's interesting, yeah.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Now, soon the hours turned into days, the search just
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: kept continuing, but the reality of the situation was becoming
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: harder and harder to ignore. A child had disappeared in
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: the middle of the afternoon in a quiet community, within
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: walking distance of home and school, and despite every single
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: effort to find her, there was still no evidence explaining
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: what had happened. And with each passing day, the case
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: began to draw wider and wider attention. Local coverage quickly
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: turned into provincial and then into national news, with cameras
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: set up outside the family's home and reporters following every
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: single development and With the attention also came speculation. In
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: many cases like this, when there is no clear answers,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: people often begin to look for answers, and with that
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: comes someone to blame, so very quickly that focus began
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: to shift towards Tory's mother, Tara McDonald. Her media appearances
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: were under a proverbial magnifying glass, and they were analyzed
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: extremely closely, and for some viewers, her reactions didn't match
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: what they would expect to see from a parent in
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that situation. People saw how she wasn't openly crying in
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: front of cameras, She didn't always show visible emotion during
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: these interviews, and for some that was enough to raise
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: some suspicion. Now, Tara eventually addressed those perceptions directly, explaining
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: that she simply wasn't someone who could break down in
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: front of strangers, especially not with cameras pointed in her face.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Gosh, that doesn't seem fair.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, it does not, but I do. Also, on
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the same hand, understand you know, speculation coming.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Up from that, I guess, but everybody is so different,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: which is true, you have no idea, And also people
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: may think they know how they're going to act in
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: a situation like this, but it could be totally opposite.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: They have no idea.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Exactly, so it's hard to say and unless you know
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: you're in that position now. Tara, though, she described how
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: she was experiencing intense grief, but she was experiencing it
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and letting it out privately, away from the public eye.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: But by that point, the public's narrative had already started
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to take shape, and it was isn't easily undone now.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: The fact that she wasn't the one who called in
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the missing report for her daughter either, it was her grandmother.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: It was another layer to this now. At that same time,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: tensions between Tara and her ex husband Rodney began to
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: surface publicly too. The two had been separated for years,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and the stress of the situation only made those fractures
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: more visible to everyone. During interviews, disagreements between them played
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: out in real time, sometimes even escalating into full on
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: arguments in front of reporters. In one exchange, Rodney suggested
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: that keeping Tory's name in the media, regardless of the tone,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: was important to keep the search alive. Tara, however, pushed back,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: frustrated by the attention being directed at her instead of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: her missing daughter. She wasn't happy. Now to viewers, those
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: moments only added fuel to the speculation they had already begun.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: But online and within the community, rumors were just spreading.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Some people questioned Tara's behavior, others pointed to her past ruggles,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and before long, the whole conversation around the case had
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: begun to split into two different directions. On one side
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: was the active investigation, where police were working through leads,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: but on the other was the public narrative, where assumptions
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: were being made without any sort of evidence to back
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: them up. But what mattered the most at this time
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: was still finding Tory, and as the investigation continued, police
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: began reviewing surveillance footage from the surrounding area of Oliver
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Stephens Public School. With no witnesses and no physical evidence
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to guide them, video became one of the few ways
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: to try and reconstruct what had happened in those critical moments,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and it was there that investigators found the first real
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: break in the case. On the footage, they found Tory
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: standing there outside the school, and she could be seen
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: walking away from that school grounds alongside an unknown individual. Now,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the image quality wasn't perfect, but it was clear enough
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: to establish a few key details. The person appeared to
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: be an adult woman wearing a light colored possibly white coat,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: And more importantly, Tory wasn't struggling, She wasn't being pulled
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: or forced. She was walking calmly beside this person as
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: if nothing was wrong. Now, that immediate detail changed a
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: lot of this case, because up until that point there
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: had been no confirmation of what had happened, whether Tory
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: had wandered off being approached or taken like anything. But
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: this footage it suggested that Tory appear to be going
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: willingly with whoever.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: This was, almost like she may have known them too.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Possibly Okay, so yes, it raises a lot of critical
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: and uncomfortable questions. Would she have known this person? Who
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: if she didn't know them, could approach an eight year
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: old like this, let alone just approach child but in
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: broad daylight outsider school.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: But honestly, that kind of just the scenario seems safe, right, Like,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: you don't think an eight year old would necessarily question
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: an adult in their school, maybe offering help or whatever.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, so, most likely it points towards familiarity, because
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: even if it is an adult approaching a child like that,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and the child's going to just believe an adult. You
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: can might argue that, but what kind of adult would
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: approach a child in a public place like this in
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: broad daylight? Most likely someone who's familiar. Now, children are
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: often taught to be cautious around strangers, but they're also
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: far more likely to trust someone who feels safe exactly
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about, someone who speaks calmly, someone who
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: peers non threatening, even if they are in fact a stranger. Now,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: the person in this video hadn't need needed to use force,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: which suggested that whatever was said, or however the interaction began,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: was enough to gain tory trust, and that realization narrowed
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the possibilities significantly. Police released details of the footage to
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the public, along with descriptions of the individual they were
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: looking for, a woman, average build, brown hair, and wearing
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: a white jacket. For the first time since Tory's disappearance,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: there was something concrete to work with In the following
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: days after the surveillance footage was released, it was circulated
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: widely across news broadcasts, online platforms, and throughout the community,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: and investigators were hoping that someone somewhere would recognize the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: woman seen walking away with Tory. Now, interestingly enough, the
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: tip they did eventually receive didn't come from a stranger,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: but it came from withinside the case itself. It was
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: on April twelfth, just four days after Tory's disappearance, that Terra,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Tory's mother, contacted police with a possible identification. Tara told
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: police that after repeatedly watching the footage, she believed she
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: recognized the woman in the video as eighteen year old
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Terry Lynne mcclintick. Now, I'll just for the record be
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: calling her Terry.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Kay. The mom was probably obsessing over this footage, hey,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: like repeatedly watching it, like I gotta figure out who
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: this is. I want to figure it out.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's very likely what was going on. Now, Tara
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: said she had crossed paths with Terry before. It's gonna
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: get a little on the complicated side because we have Tara,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: who's Tory's mother, and then also Terry, who's this suspected individual. Now,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: the two weren't close, but they had been in the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: same circles at times, with their connections tied loosely through
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: prior interactions involving drug use. It wasn't a strong relationship
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: that Tara had with Terry, but it was enough that
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: she felt confident in what she was seeing. For investigators,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: this identification was a significant development, and now with a name,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: they were able to move rather quickly. When officers looked
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: into Terry, they discovered she had an outstanding unrelated warrant,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: which was very lucky for them because it gave them
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: legal reason to bring her into custody. So while they
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: continued to investigate her for possible connections in Tory's disappearance,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: they basically had her in cuffs. They just arrested her
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: and that was that now. As they began to question
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: and speak with her regarding Tory's disappearance, well, Terry just
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: denied any involvement, but police weren't relying solely on what
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: she was saying. Instead, they did their due diligence and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: they began focusing on what she was doing. Now. Because
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: she was being held in custody, every interaction she had
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: could be monitored, and investigators tracked her phone calls, paid
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: close attention to who was visiting her, and started mapping
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: out the people in her life. It was a quieter
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: phase of the investigation, less visible to the public. But
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: it was far more focused, and it didn't take long
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: for one particular name to stand out. It seemed Terry
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: had a frequent visitor, a man named Michael Rafferty. Now
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Michael repeated his visits and his connection to Terry were
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: enough to raise eyebrows, but still this connection alone didn't
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: prove anything. Terry described him as her boyfriend, though Michael
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: himself would later downplay that, suggesting they weren't particularly serious. Still,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the frequency of those visits was enough to put him
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: on investigator's radar. When police spoke with him, Michael came
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: across as calm and cooperative. He answered questions, denied recognizing
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the person in the surveillance footage, and maintained he had
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: no involvement in what happened to Tory. There seemed to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: be nothing overtly alarming about him, and that was that.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: But as investigators looked deeper into his background, a different
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: picture started to form. Now, Michael was twenty eight years
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: old at the time, and he'd been living in Woodstock
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: with his mother. He didn't have a significant criminal history
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: or anything, which initially made him seem less likely to
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: be involved in something serious like this. However, people who
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: knew him described him as having a pattern of behavior
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: that raised some concerns. Apparently, he had a history of
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: manipulating those around him, particularly in relationships. He moved from
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: one partner to another, often deceiving them, and was known
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: to present different versions of himself depending on the situation.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: He worked inconsistently, at times, claiming to run his own
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: business or take on temporary jobs, but much of his
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: life appeared unstable. Financial struggles were common, and there were
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: indications that he relied heavily on others, including his mother,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: for support. Now, of course, none of these details directly
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: connected him to Torrey's disappearance or anything, but combined with
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: the association to Terry, there were enough factors to keep
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: him firmly in focus as a person of interest, at
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the very least right now, some time had gone by,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and for weeks investigators had been working with fragments, you know, footage, timelines,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: small connections, but no clear account of what had actually
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: happened to Tory. But that all changed in May of
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. See after being held in custody
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and questioned repeatedly, Terry asked to speak with the investigation team,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and this time, her story was different. This time, she
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: decided she was going to tell the truth. According to Terry,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: what had happened on April eighth hadn't been spontaneous. She
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: told police that earlier that day, she and Michael had
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a conversation about kidnapping a young girl. Well, now, it
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't framed as a serious plan at first, more like
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: a very disturbing joke, kind of turned into a challenge.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Michael questioned whether she would actually go through with something
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: like that, push her and testing her right and for
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: reasons that are extremely difficult to fully understand, if not impossible,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: she decided to prove that she would in fact do it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: What the shit? That even just seems like an odd
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: conversation to have with someone you're in a relationship with.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Really, definitely, but what a little too much? One thing
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: you have to remember is how Michael manipulates those around him.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is not a diagnosis. This is my
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: personal opinion, so it's not fact. But I personally believe
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Michael is a psychopath.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Well, and there's a big age difference between the two
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: of them, right, yes, ten years or something.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Well, she is eighteen and he was twenty twenty eight. Yeah,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: there you go.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: So right, there's kind of a bit of a I mean,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: she's legal, but it's it's still like borderline.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: You know what, If your argument is she's legal, she's
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: too fucking young for you, I don't know.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I think it's just saying that at those two ages,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I think that's a bit. Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, they're consenting adults. They can do what they want.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: But if your argument is, well, she's legal, I'm sorry
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: you lost me.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: That's really fair.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, so with her deciding she was going to
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: prove that she would do this later that afternoon, and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Terry went to Oliver Stephens Public School and she waited.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: She didn't target Tory specifically at first. Instead, she just
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: waited for an opportunity for a child she could approach
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: without drawing attention, and when Tory came out of the school,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: sitting there alone, Terry approached her and she started a conversation. Reportedly,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: she mentioned puppies to gain the interest of her.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Terry then led Toy away from the school towards the
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: waiting vehicle, where Michael was inside, and once they reached
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the car, Tory was forced inside and the two of
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: them sped away from the scene.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: What the shit this is? There's just like, absolutely no
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: reason to this. This makes no sense.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I agree there is no reason, but you can clearly
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: see trust me, that someone had a reason.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Well, she's trying to prove a point to him, but that's.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: But again, he's a very manipulative individual. Yes, so he
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: has an agenda.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Now, as they left Woodstock, Michael reportedly turned on the radio,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: listening for any mention of Tory's disappearance, checking to see
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: if an alert had been issued, but as we know,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: no Amber alert had been issued. They made stops along
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: the way, including a gas station in a home depot,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: where Terry went inside while Michael remained in the vehicle
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: with Tory. According to Terry's statements, she purchased items inside
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: at his direction, including a claw hammer and garbage bags,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: before returning to the car Geez. From there, they drove
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to a remote rural area, far away from where anyone
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: would be and where there would be no interruptions, and
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: it was at that location that Tory was attacked. Now
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Terry told investigators that she turned away at many times
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: as this was occurring, claiming she didn't want to see
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: what was happening, but she also admitted that she was
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: in fact present as it occurred. She described hearing Tory screaming,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: seeing some parts of the assault, and knowing that she
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: was being seriously harmed. In later accounts, she acknowledged that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Tory had been struck multiple times with the hammer and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: that the attack did not happen instantly. According to what
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: was later presented in court, the injuries were extensive. There
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: were multiple blows to the head, along with additional trauma
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: to the body as well. The pathologists would later testify
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that the injuries were severe and that death would not
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: have been immediate, meaning Tory endured what was happening for
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: an extended period.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: That she suffered and it took this lady this long
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: to confess this shit. That's freakin' unreal.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can tell that she's a bit of
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: a sicko too. Now, there were also later allegations that
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Tory had been raped during this attack as well, So
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: there was in fact a sexual assault at least during
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: end or prior I guess even post. I'm not certain,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: so I won't throw that out of the window, but
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: there was sexual assault incorporated in.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: This attack, what a nasty, nasty man.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Now. Terry's versions of events did shift a bit at times,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: particularly when it came to who was responsible for specific actions,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: but the overall reality did not change. By the end
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: of the statement, investigators were no longer trying to find
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: a missing child. They were building a case around a
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: deliberate and brutal killing of eight year old Tory. With
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Terry's confession on record, investigators now had something that they
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: had been missing from the beginning, a direct account that
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: connected the events of April eighth to a second person.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: That person was, of course, Michael. So shortly after Terry
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: spoke to police, Michael was arrested and formally charged in
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: connection with Tory's abduction and murder. Now from the onset,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Michael maintained that he had done nothing wrong. During questioning,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: he denied any involvement in Tory's disappearance, rejecting Terry's accounts
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and attempting to distance himself from these events and statements altogether.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Even as investigators laid out what they knew his connection
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: to Terry, the timeline, the details emerging from her confession,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: he remained steadfast in this position. He hadn't done anything.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: He wasn't responsible, and that was that. But by that
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: point the investigation had already begun corroborating key parts of
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Terry's statements. Her description of events aligned with what investigators
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: had been able to piece together independently, her presence near
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: the school, the timing of the abduction, the movements that followed.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Not to mention, Michael's vehicle had also been placed in
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: relevant areas, further support the version of events she'd already provided.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Each piece on its own may not have been enough,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: but together they formed a pattern that was becoming increasingly
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: difficult to dismiss. But one problem still stood out. Even
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: with Terry's confession, one of the most important pieces of
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the investigation was still missing. Tory still hadn't been found.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Terry had provided information about where the events had taken place,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and by her accounts, it wasn't exactly precise. The area
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: she described was rural, heavily wooded, and unfamiliar to investigators.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a clearly marked spot on a map or anything.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: It was an approximation of an area, and Michael.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Was probably driving, so she probably wasn't paying like a
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: ton of attention.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I guess possible yeah, so this made the search incredibly difficult.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Search teams were deployed to areas outside of Woodstock, focusing
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: on remote stretches of land that matched Terry's description. Officers
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: combed through fields, woods, back roads, they trying to match
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: her events to something tangible on the ground. The process
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: was slow and methodical, because it had to be. There
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: was no room for error. They needed to confirm everything.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Days passed without success, and despite having a confession of
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: a general location, they still couldn't find her. It wasn't
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: until June twentieth, two thousand and nine, more than a
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: month after Tory had disappeared, that investigators finally made a breakthrough.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Acting on a hunch while working through the information Terry provided,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: one officer focused on a specific area near Mount Forest. There,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: in a rural location, they found what they'd been searching for.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Tory's remains were discovered concealed beneath a pile of rocks.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: When investigators recovered her remains, she was still wearing the
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Hanna Montana T shirt she had gone to school in
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: that day day. The amount of time that had passed
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: was more than one hundred days, which meant that the
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: conditions of her remains made certain forensic determinations very difficult.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Despite that, though the examination still revealed critical details. The
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: autopsy confirmed that Tory had been a victim of a
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: violent and prolonged attack. There was evidence of multiple blunt
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: force injuries, including several impacts to the head consistent with
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: a claw hammer, the same type of tool that Terry
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: had been seen purchasing on surveillance footage the day that
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Tory disappeared, the very same one that she described in
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: her confession. Investigators also documented additional trauma to the body,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: injuries to her torso that may have contributed to her death,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: and while the exact sequence of events could not fully
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: be reconstructed, the findings made one thing extremely clear. This
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: was not quick, and this was not impulsive. It was sustained.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Now due to the dream decomposition and the prolonged exposure
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: to the elements, they were not able to determine if
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: she had in fact been raped. There was a lack
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: of DNA being present now. Items were also recovered from
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: the scene too, and added further confirmation to the timeline.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Investigators found personal belongings linked directly to Tory, including a
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: hair clip, plastic bottle, caps and a butterfly earring that
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: she had returned to her classroom earlier to retrieve that day.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: But with Tory's remains recovered and key elements of Terry's
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: confession supported by physical evidence, investigators were now at a
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: position to move forward formally with charges. It had all
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: starting as a missing person's case, but now had fully
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: transitioned into a homicide prosecution, and both suspects were now
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: facing the most serious charges available under Canadian law.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: This is just devastating. I like, the community itself very small,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: and I can't even imagine too, like the freakin' fat
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: like what this is doing to the family, Like, holy shit,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: it is just I don't know, it's just mind blowing
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: to think that someone could be that fricking evil to
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: do this for what really, Oh my.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Gosh, he's a disgusting sexual predator and then just goes
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: and murders her on top of it, Like, Okay, this
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: is the thing because he's like, oh, I dare you
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: go kidnap a girl? That means why because he wanted
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to sexually abuse and kill her. Wow, clearly there's underlying
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: motives here with a sick fuck.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And so and we're saying like, I can't even remember
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: the freaking girlfriend or whatever the hell's name, Terry, Terry,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: She are you thinking that she had no idea that
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: he was gonna end up doing this to that little girl?
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't know what she was thinking,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: but I don't think that she would have known he
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: was going to sexually assault and kill her.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: No, well, yeah, because I feel like to at eighteen
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: years old, I don't think her mind would necessarily have
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: gone there. She's just trying to impress this older man that.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: She likes, very impressionable.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: And being what I suspect is a psychopath, takes full
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: advantage of that, manipulates the shit out of her and goes, oh,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: you totally would not kidnap her for me, ha ha.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Like even look how long she kept quiet, Like clearly
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: he had some claws in her realty definitely.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Now. The thing is, though Terry's legal path it did
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: diverge early on. It was in April of twenty ten
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: that she pleaded guilty to first degree murder. Now by
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: doing so, she avoided a full trial, but the admission
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: also confirmed her role in the planning and execution of
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the crime, whether she intended it or not.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you wouldn't think that she would be at
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: first degree.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: She was there, she let it happen. She also kidnapped,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: she was on the footage.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but would she have been able to
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: stop him?
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Well, she pled guilty, so she's probably going to be
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: facing a different crime.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Now, a conviction of first degree murder in Canada carries
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: an automatic life sentence, and Terry received that sentence with
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: no eligibility for parole for twenty five years. However, because
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: of the timing of her plea, she retained the ability
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: to apply under what is known as quote faint hope clause,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: which is a provision that at the time allowed some
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: offenders to seek a reduction in their parole in eligibility
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: after serving a portion of their sentence. So she may
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: get out sooner than twenty five years.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Why do we even have shit like this? Really, like,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Just okay, she pleaded guilty. She did
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: a freaking terrible thing. She was part of a terrible thing.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Life in prison, done done.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, But I guarantee you that's why
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: she pled guilty. Is for that faint hope clause. Okay,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: to try and get out a little earlier. Her lawyer
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: was probably like, listen, they got you on camera. You've
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: already confessed you're going away. If you plead guilty, you
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: might be able to get out sooner than twenty five years.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But if she had pleaded for like I don't know,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: or gotten something lesser too, right, like not first degree,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: it might have ended up being the same thing. I
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: don't know. Whatever. She sucks either way, oh she does now.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: When it comes to Michael, though, well, he chose a
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: very different path. Michael maintained his innocence and he did
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: not plead guilty. Instead, he elected to go to trial.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: H you know, I'm done hearing about this Michael piece
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: of shit guy. Fair enough, he's bothering me.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: He's a piece of shit. You nailed it right now.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's horrible, just disgusting piece of garbage that shouldn't
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: have even been born. Did I go too far?
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: It's not too fa You forgot douche Canoe.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, there we go.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a horrible, disgusting piece of shit who never should
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: have been born and is a douche canoe.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: The world would have been a better place without him
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: in it.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I agree, deaf Tory would still be here.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Well. Yeah.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Now, the charges against Michael included first degree murder, kidnapping,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and sexual assault, reflecting the full scope of what investigators
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: believed had taken place. So Michael's trial began in March
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: of twenty twelve, nearly three years after Tory had initially disappeared.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: By that point, much of the investigation in its groundwork
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: had already been complete, but the trial would bring those
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: details into the open in a way that hadn't happened yet.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: For the jury. This was the first time the full
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: sequence of events would be laid out step by step,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: supported by witness testimony, forensic findings, and Terry's account as well.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: One of the most significant components of that Crown's case
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: was Terry's confession and her testimony. Having already pleaded guilty,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: she took the stand and provided her version of what
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: had happened. However, her testimony produced some complications. While she
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: had previously implicated Michael, parts of her story had shifted
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: when she testified in court, including claims about who carried
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: out certain parts of the attack. Now this it created
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: an immediate point of tension at the trial, as the
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: defense seized on these inconsistencies in an attempt to cast
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: doubt on Michael's direct involvement and Terry's credibility. But despite
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: those changes, the prosecution's case did not rely solely on
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Terry's word. Investigators presented surveillance footage showing Terry purchasing items
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: on the day of the abduction, as well as evidence
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: placing Michael's vehicle in key locations tied to the timeline.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: These sequences of movements described in the investigation was supported
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: by these details, helping to establish that both individuals were
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: acting together through the events. Forensic evidence, of course, also
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: played a very important role. While the condition of Tory's
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: remains limited, some findings the injuries that could be documented
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: were consistent with the account that had been given during
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the investigation interview. Now the nature of those injuries supported
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: the argument that this was a planned and sustained act
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: rather than something spontaneous. But beyond the physical evidence, the
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: court also heard details about Michael's behavior and background that
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: had not been presented during the earlier stages of the case.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: This included information about his past relationships, patterns, of manipulation,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: which the Crown used, of course, to help establish motive
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: and character. Now, while not all this information had been
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: admissible during the investigation itself, it contributed to the broader
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: picture the prosecution was building for the jury. Still, no
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: matter what was brought up through the trial, Michael maintained
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: that he was not responsible. He also did not take
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the stand in his own defense, and his legal strategy
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: focused on challenging the reliability of Terry's testimony and the
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: conclusions drawn from the evidence. For the jury, the task
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to weigh all of this, the conflicting statements supporting evidence,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: and the overall timeline. It was all to determine whether
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Michael was involved or not, and it was a heavy task.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just hate this, Like it almost seems as
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: though he has a good defense, and why the hell
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: does he deserve a good defense?
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. But I mean, as
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: we know, I'm not going there, well, as we know
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: of defense lawyers there, they don't have.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: The best of well, because that just makes me angry
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: that someone who did something so terrible is like doing
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: well in court. Like, I don't know, I just don't like.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I don't like that well.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: After weeks of the testimony and deliberation, the jury reached
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: their decision. It was in May of twenty twelve. After
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: careful deliberation, the jury presented the verdict. Michael Rafferty was
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: found guilty on all charges, including first degree murder, kidnapping,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and sexual assault.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I was a little bit of a long pause there.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I was about to punch you.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Were you okay?
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: But that's good. There couldn't have been any other any
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: other outcome there, so at least the jury has this
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: little girl's back.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I agree. Did you notice how I kind of mouthed
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: an end there, like I was going to go not guilty?
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Did you see that?
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: No? Because I was staring you in the eyes, picturing.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Your fist connecting with my face. Is that what was
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: going on?
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Wow, wow, No, I've got evidence now, it's recorded now.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Michael was sentenced to life in prison with no possibility
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: of parole for twenty five years, the mandatory sentence for
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: first degree murder in Canada. It was the same sentence
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Terry had received two years earlier following her guilty plea. Well,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: the path to conviction had been different, one through admission,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: one through a trial The end result placed both offenders
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: under the same legal consequences. Now, for Torrey's family, the
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: verdict was a win, but in the process they still
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: lost so much, including their little girl.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how could you even consider this a win at all?
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: The trial had required them to sit through the details
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: of what had happened to her, to hear conflicting accounts,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: and to relive the events that had already defined their
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: lives for years. The guilty verdict confirmed responsibility, but it
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: did not undo what had been lost. But, as is
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: so often in the case of situations like this, the
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: story did not end with the verdict. In the years
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: that followed, new developments would continue to surface, ones that
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: would once again bring the case back to the public
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: eye and force Tory's family to revisit everything they had
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: already endured. For example, following his conviction, Michael began the
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: process of appealing the verdict, which essentially meant that even
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: after the trial had concluded and sensing had been handed down,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: the case was not truly over.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Everyone is done with you at this point.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Michael appeals are often framed as procedural, focused on legal
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: arguments rather than the facts of the case itself. And
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: in Michael's situation, the appeal centered on claims at the
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: trial the judge that the trial had made errors in
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: instructing the jury, which the defense argued could have affected
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: the outcome of the case. It wasn't about re arguing
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: the entire case from the beginning, but it still required
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: a review of key elements and reopened a lot of
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: discussions around what had already been decided.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: That process took years, and it wasn't until twenty sixteen,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: four years after his conviction, that Michael's appeal was ultimately
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: dismissed and the court upheld the original verdict and sentence charge.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: For several years after the appeal was dismissed, the case
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: faded from national spotlight. Both offenders were serving their sentence
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: and it seemed that the legal process had run its course.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Changed in late twenty eighteen, news broke that Terry had
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: been transferred from a maximum security prison to an indigenous
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: healing lodge in Saskatchewan. Now, the move happened roughly eight
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: years into her sentence, and it immediately sparked a wave
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: of public reaction. Healing lodges are designed as lower security
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: facilities that focus on rehabilitation, cultural programming, and reintegration. They
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: do not operate in the same way as traditional prisons.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Many function as open campus type environments, even without the
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: same physical barriers or levels of restrictions. While they are
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: intended primarily for Indigenous offenders, individuals can be placed there
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: if they demonstrate a commitment to the programming and meet
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: certain classification criteria, but either way, that decision raised some
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: serious concerns. Her crime, the level of violence involved, and
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: her behavior while incarcerated, which included a prior assault on
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: another inmate, led many to question how she had been
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: deemed suitable for a transfer to a lower security environment.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: There was also public confusion surrounding her eligibility, particularly given
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: that she was not widely recognized as having Indigenous heritage.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Now Tory's family was blindsided by this news. Rodney Stafford,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Torrey's father, spoke out immediately, questioning not only the decision itself,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: but also the lack of communication beforehand. For him, it
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: felt like a step backwards, taking back accountability the things
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: that had been established through the trial and sentencing. He
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: described it as putting the public at risk and made
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: it clear that he believed Tory should remain in a
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: higher security facility.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I could understand her maybe getting transferred to
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: something like that after she had served way more time,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: almost when she was done her close to being done
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: her sentencing, right, but not after freaking eight years for
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: something that terrible.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: First degree murder and you're going there after eight years? Yeah, yeah,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: you have life in prison with minimum twenty five years,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: which you have a clause that may say you might
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: get less than twenty five years, but even still that
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: is bonkers. Now. The reaction quickly extended beyond just Tory's family,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: though too. The case reached national headlines, drawing response from politicians,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: community leaders and the public. Protests were organized, including demonstrations
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: on Parliament Hill, even with supporters calling for the decision
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: to be reversed. Even individuals connected to Terry herself expressed concern,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: with some questioning whether the move was appropriate given the
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: nature of her crime now. At the same time, officials
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: from Correctional Service Canada defended the transfer, stating that it
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: aligned with existing policies and legal obligation, including considerations around
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: rehabilitation and inmate rights. But within a week of the backlash,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: the government intervened. Terry was transferred back to the traditional
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: correctional facility, and additional guidelines were introduced to that were
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: basically placed for greater scrutiny on future transfers of this nature,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: including considerations of sentencing length, institutional behavior, and consultation with
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: affected communities, which makes way more sense to me once
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: you started introducing those now. While much of the public's
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: attention in twenty eighteen focused on Terry's transfer, new information
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: was also emerging about Michael and his behavior behind bars,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: details that painted a picture consistent with what investigators had
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: already suspected about him from the very beginning. According to
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: relatives who later came forward, Michael had maintained contact with
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: his family while incarcerated, particularly with his mother, Deborah Murphy. Now.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: In those communications, he allegedly claimed that he was in
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: danger inside prison walls and he needed financial support to
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: ensure his safety, and over time those requests escalated. His
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: mother began sending money, often in the form of checks
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and money orders, not directly to Michael, but to other
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: individuals connected to the prison system, including inmates and their associates.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: The justification, according to Michael, was that these payments were
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: necessary for protection, but As the situation unfolded, doubts began
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: to grow within the family. Records reviewed later suggested that
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the total amount sent reached into the tens of thousands
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: of dollars, with some estimates placing it between twenty and
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: thirty thousand. The payments were frequent, and in many cases
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: they were sent to people his mother did not know personally.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: For relatives, looking at that pattern, this was clearly manipulation.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Many family members believed that Michael had been exploiting his
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: mother's concern, using fear as a way to secure money
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: that ultimately went towards making his life in prison much
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: more comfortable. See within correctional facilities. Small items from the
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: canteen like food, personal goods, and other privileges can carry value,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: and informal exchanges between inmates can create a kind of
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: internal economy. According to the allegations, Michael was using those
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: payments to participate in that system, essentially buying himself things
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: that he could trade for favors or other things or
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: protection who knows a plethora of different things.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I I was just going to say, what a
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: terrible person. But we're already very aware of.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: This exactly, And so the impact on his mother with this, well,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: it was significant to say the least.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Well, he's taken all her money, he is.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: The financial strain grew over time. Yeah, it affected her
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: ability to maintain a stable life of her own. In fact, yees.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Family members later described how she struggled to keep up
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: with demands, at times borrowing money to continue sending funds
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: to him, and the situation became a massive source of
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: stress in her life that compounded over the years, and
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: in August of twenty eighteen, Deborah Murphy ultimately died of
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: a heart attack at the age of sixty.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Which honestly was probably mostly caused by knowing her son
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: is a complete piece of garbage.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Well most of it. Yeah. A lot of family members
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: believe that the ongoing pressure, both emotional and financial, had
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: basically taken a toll on her.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: The stress.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And while I mean, while those claims that
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: the stress he caused her caused her to die, while
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: those claims cannot be proven, the perception among relatives was clear.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: They held him responsible for exploiting like her loyalty and well.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if she wasn't having money struggles and
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: didn't have a son, that was charged with something to
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: this extent, she probably could have lived many more happy
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: years likely.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: But when all said and done, as the years passed,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: the case of Tory Stafford left a long lasting mark
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: that extended far beyond the individual rules directly involved. What
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: happened in Woodstock in two thousand and nine didn't just
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: affect one family. It exposed gaps and systems. It changed
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: policies and reshaped how similar situations would be handled moving forward.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: One of the most immediate areas of focus was the
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: amber alert system in Ontario. At the time of Tory's disappearance,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: an Amber alert was not issued. Investigators initially believed that
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: the case did not meet that strict criteria that was required. Specifically,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: there was no confirmation of evidence of an abduction in
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: those early hours, and that decision drew a lot of
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: criticism in this case as it unfolded, particularly once it
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: became clear that Tory had in fact been taken shortly
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: after leaving school. In response, a formal review of the
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: system was launched. Law enforcement officials, including those directly involved
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: in the case, participated in discussions about how the criteria
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: were being applied and whether there were actually too restrictive.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: As a result of those conversations, changes were made to
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: broaden the guidelines. Police no longer needed definitive proof of
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: an abduction to issue an alert, only a reasonablelief that
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: a child was in danger. The goal was to remove
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: hesitation and for allowing a faster public notification in cases
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: where time is crucial. Beyond policy changes, the case also
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: had a profound effect on the community itself. Woodstock, described
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: by many as a quiet and close knit town, was
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: forced to confront something it had never experienced on this scale.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: The search efforts, the media attention, and the eventual outcome
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: shifted how people viewed safety in their own neighborhoods. What
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: had once felt like a place where children could walk
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: home from school without concern was suddenly seen through a
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: different lens. For Torrey's family, the impact was ongoing and
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: deeply personal. Rodney Stafford became an advocate for victim's rights,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: channeling his energy into pushing for changes within the justice system.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Through public appearances, protests, and outreach. He worked to support
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: other families navigating similar experiences and to highlight what he
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: saw as shortcomings in how offenders were managed after convictions.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Tara MacDonald's path, meanwhile, looked different. The years following the
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: case brought continued challenges for her, including struggles with addiction
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: and the lasting effects of the intense public scrutiny that
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: fell upon her. The attention that had once been focused
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: on finding her daughter had at times turned towards her,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: creating a level of pressure that didn't disappear once the
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: case was resolved. Over time, she sought treatment, she began
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: working towards rebuilding her life and eventually finding purpose and
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: helping others through roles such as supporting new mothers. But
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: she will never forget her daughter, and she found ways
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: to ensure that that will be the case. Items from
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Tory's life, clothing, and personal belongings were preserved and incorporated
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: into things like memory quilts, turning everyday objects into something
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: that she could be holding close. For her brother, Darren,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: the loss was deeply personal, and he largely kept out
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: of the spotlight. While much of the case played out publicly.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: He chose to live his life more privately, carrying his
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: own version of that experience without the same level of visibility.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: In the years since, both of her parents had spoken
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: out in different ways about who Tory might have become.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Like any child, her future was open ended, full of
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: possibilities that will never be realized. Rodney has often visited
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Tory's grave, and it became one of those few ways
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: he could still feel connected to his daughter, a place
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: where birthdays, holidays, and quiet moments of reflection all seemed
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: to gather. And it wasn't a replacement for her life,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: but it was something tangible instead in a situation where
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: so much had been taken away, and ultimately, by the
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: time the court proceedings had ended and the headlines were gone,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: what remained for Tory's family wasn't the investigation or the
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: legal process. It was the absence of her. Tory was
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: remembered as a child with a strong personality, someone who
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: was curious, energetic, and afraid to engage with the world
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: around her. She was the kind of kid who would
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: strike up conversations easily, who loved animals, who didn't mind
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: getting dirty, and who left an impression on people that
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: she met. Those traits became part of how people remembered
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: her afterwards, and while the story of what happened to
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: her has been told in many different ways, the most
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: important part has always been who she was before any
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: of it ever began. And that's the story of Tory Stafford.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Huh, the most unnecessary story, Hey, one of the most.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I can't get over adults targeting children. M h you
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: are the scum of scum if you do that in
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: my mind, and oh it disgusts me.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's yeah. I mean, just listening to all that,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: it's just hard to believe that it's real, like that
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: it's true that that actually happened to this poor little
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: eight year old girl, Like, are you freaking kidding me?
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: But it does, is the thing. It happens, and it
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: happens far too often. And yet I feel there needs
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: to be such heavier consequences placed on individuals who target children.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I've said this before. It's this common knowledge. You go
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: to a prison, prisoners talking, murderers are disgusted at you
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: if you target children, if you hurt children.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Well, honestly, yeah, even him getting twenty five years like
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: he would be getting out in his fifties, like it's
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: not enough time.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: I agree, it should just.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Be life and no chance of like getting out at all.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I agree. I also agree I personal opinion here, I
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: might get you know what, some pitch for coming at
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: me for this opinion. I may not though, if you
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: sexually assault a child, I think you should be getting
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: life and castrated. Yeah, period should be just automatic.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, how can anyone disagree when a little
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: eight year old got taken from this world? That's true,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: right in her whole life. She doesn't get to grow
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: up and get married and have a career and change
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: the world. Right, So that's fucked up it is.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Anyways, Hopefully you guys got through this one all right.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: It was a heavy one. If you want to give
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: us some insight your opinion on this, shoot us a message.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: We have links in our description of this podcast. We
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: got website, we got email, we got social media as
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: you name it. We appreciate you being here. Your support
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: helps us go so far. We get to do this
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: because of you, So thank you, thank you, and thank you.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm also thank you.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much and until next time, stay wicked
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: A bow, oh,