Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Texas mom missing, but cops think young daughter witnessed her murder

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Texas mom missing, but cops think young daughter witnessed her murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sheriff Javier or Salazar says
0:13
Speaker 1: Andre McDonald, a major in the Air Force, refused to
0:16
Speaker 1: help investigators find his wife. Investigators say they found blood
0:20
Speaker 1: and hair on a light switch and a burned pile
0:22
Speaker 1: in the backyard at the couple's far Northside home. Investigators
0:26
Speaker 1: found disturbing items at the home, including an axe, a shovel,
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Speaker 1: and gasoline. Quite frankly, there may be a body out
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Speaker 1: laying in the woods that again, we would help us
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Speaker 1: bring closure to this case. And the one little girl
0:40
Speaker 1: that I feel that we owe answers to and I'm
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Speaker 1: not going to rest until we find her and until
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Speaker 1: we get her back to her family. Where is Andrene McDonald?
0:48
Speaker 1: Imancy Grace, This as Crime Stories, Thank you for being
0:52
Speaker 1: with us with me an all star panel. Atlanta criminal lawyer,
0:56
Speaker 1: former prosecutor now renowned defense attorney Darryl Cohen for ensic psychiatrist,
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Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober Vincent Hill, private investigator, author of playbook
1:05
Speaker 1: to a Murder, Joining me right now. Syndicated talks show
1:09
Speaker 1: host Dave matt Okay, I want to start at the
1:12
Speaker 1: beginning where every investigation starts. When did we last see
1:16
Speaker 1: on dream McDonald Wait a minute, IM gonna start before that.
1:18
Speaker 1: Tell me about her. I was reading an article about her,
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Speaker 1: Dave mac that was in a ladies magazine or a
1:26
Speaker 1: Ladies column before she ever went missing. What can you
1:30
Speaker 1: tell me about her? On dream? At was a graduated
1:34
Speaker 1: from the University of Texas at San Antonio, graduated with
1:36
Speaker 1: honors Bachelor of Science and Finance. She also is a
1:39
Speaker 1: certified dementia practitioner and a certified Assistant Living Manager. But
1:44
Speaker 1: you're going so fast. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Okay,
1:47
Speaker 1: hold on, did you say she graduated with honors from
1:51
Speaker 1: the University of Texas. Is that what you said, ma'am? Okay, wow,
1:55
Speaker 1: because that's an awesome school. And after she graduates with
1:59
Speaker 1: honors from University Texas, what happens then? Well, you know,
2:02
Speaker 1: she actually big type of personality. According to all of
2:05
Speaker 1: her friends, she's a go getter, and she actually was
2:09
Speaker 1: certified in dementia as a practitioner and a certified Assistant
2:13
Speaker 1: Living manager. And with those skills she opened up her
2:15
Speaker 1: own business and within a very short period of time, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: she was winning awards. She won the Service Excellence Award
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Speaker 1: for the Starlight homes that she owned and was well
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Speaker 1: liked by her employees. People loved her. She even opened
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Speaker 1: up a second assisted living home. She was just going
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Speaker 1: gangbusters with this business. I'm reading about her and something
2:37
Speaker 1: called San Antonio Woman Connected. This is something Alan Duke
2:42
Speaker 1: sent me. Has got his gorgeous picture of her standing there.
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Speaker 1: It looks like a business outfit of some sort that
2:48
Speaker 1: says award winners, and she's standing by it. So she
2:51
Speaker 1: must have won some sort of award. Business named Starlight
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Speaker 1: Homes Assisted Living. She's the owner and it says on
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Speaker 1: Dream McDonald owner operator Starlight Holmes Assisted Living, two facilities
3:04
Speaker 1: providing personal care services for the elderly in the San
3:08
Speaker 1: Antonio region. She is a wife and a mother. Tell
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Speaker 1: me about her being a wife and a mother. Dave
3:13
Speaker 1: matt Well. She and her husband Andre been married for
3:17
Speaker 1: several years. They have a six year old daughter. She
3:20
Speaker 1: is she has autism and is fairly nonverbal, but she
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Speaker 1: actually can speak and can indicate and that means something
3:29
Speaker 1: in this investigation, actually, but they've talked about it a
3:32
Speaker 1: lot about how the daughter is fairly nonverbal. So she's
3:38
Speaker 1: got children. She's married, a long time marriage and one
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Speaker 1: of the girls. One of her children autistic. You know
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Speaker 1: I'm reading a little bit more here. She earned a
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Speaker 1: Bachelor's of Science in finance with honors magna kum woud. Wow, okay,
3:53
Speaker 1: she's no idiot. She was at the top one hundred
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Speaker 1: business students. She's a certified Tominisia practitioner. Told me that,
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Speaker 1: a certified assisted living manager. Wow, okay, you know what.
4:05
Speaker 1: I'm going to go straight to doctor Daniel Bober before
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Speaker 1: I go one more inch. Men, don't get angry, Jackie.
4:12
Speaker 1: You're with me here in the studio. Alan you confume
4:14
Speaker 1: out in your posh penthouse pad in La. Have you
4:18
Speaker 1: ever noticed doctor Daniel Bober and try to take your
4:21
Speaker 1: man nest out of this? Have you ever noticed when
4:24
Speaker 1: the woman is really successful and she's smart and she's awesome,
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Speaker 1: the husband gets jealous. That's one thing I love about David.
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Speaker 1: He when I do well, he's thrilled. My dad was
4:36
Speaker 1: like that when my mom did well at work. He
4:39
Speaker 1: was so happy. Never, you know, thought anything about it.
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Speaker 1: Why are men still stuck in that rut, doctor Daniel Bober?
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Speaker 1: They should be happy when the woman does well well.
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Speaker 1: I think it's certainly a gender differential reaction. I think
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Speaker 1: that you know, society, I don't know what you just said, or,
4:56
Speaker 1: as I like to quote Batman, I hate everything you
4:58
Speaker 1: just said. A gender differential. What now you need to
5:02
Speaker 1: listen to this, Daryl Cohen, Go ahead, bober so to
5:06
Speaker 1: use simpler words. Basically, you know, as men are supposed
5:10
Speaker 1: to take on certain roles in society, and so when
5:13
Speaker 1: women are more successful than men, men don't feel as macho.
5:16
Speaker 1: They don't feel like good providers that they're not, you know,
5:21
Speaker 1: being aggressive enough for dumb so when they're not, they
5:24
Speaker 1: often to feel insecure. Hold on, let me go to
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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen on this. Daryl, I heard doctor Daniel bober say,
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Speaker 1: let me put it in simple terms. Translation, Nancy, you're
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Speaker 1: an idiot. You know what. I accept that, doctor Daniel Bober.
5:35
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with that because I have
5:37
Speaker 1: had medical examiners and doctors talk down to me my
5:41
Speaker 1: whole life, and guess what, they're right. I don't know
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Speaker 1: what they're talking about, Daryl Cohen. The reality is when
5:49
Speaker 1: you put a witness on the stand, like someone like
5:51
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober a forensic psychiatrists, you have to tell
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Speaker 1: them ahead of time. They have to dummy down because
5:58
Speaker 1: we didn't go to medical school. We didn't get an
6:02
Speaker 1: extra degree in psychiatry. So when they throw out terms,
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Speaker 1: this is a trial tactic. Some lawyers are really impressed
6:09
Speaker 1: and love to throw around Latin terms and medical terms. Juries.
6:13
Speaker 1: Don't understand it. I mean, it's like shooting yourself in
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Speaker 1: the foot, Daryl Cohen. It's almost as if when I
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Speaker 1: put a witness understand like that, I'd want that witness
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Speaker 1: to dumb it down. But I look up to the
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Speaker 1: witness and make the jury think that I am so
6:26
Speaker 1: impressed with the simplicity of the witness, and that gives
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Speaker 1: the jury some authority to know they really know what's
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Speaker 1: going on, as opposed if they do yeah, yeah, And
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Speaker 1: it's like this, I would have to write. I remember
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Speaker 1: going to the medical examin I'm sure they all shuddered
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Speaker 1: when they saw him, like beat up Honda pulling up
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Speaker 1: with a smoke coming out from under the hood. Because
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Speaker 1: it would take me forever, Daryl, and I'd have I'd
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Speaker 1: book brief it. In other words, i'd have the medical
6:56
Speaker 1: examer's autopsy report. There would be scribbling writing all the
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Speaker 1: way down both columns where they would interpret all of
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Speaker 1: their terms, and I'd have to write it down so
7:05
Speaker 1: when I got in front of the jury, I could
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Speaker 1: explain it. So, doctor Bober, no offense, but please dummy
7:12
Speaker 1: down for me. Is that going to exist forever? Or
7:15
Speaker 1: are men ever going to get over it? First of all,
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Speaker 1: I would never ever dream of talking down to you.
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Speaker 1: But second of all, I think that I am. I
7:24
Speaker 1: think I think there are some men that are just
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Speaker 1: very insecure. They don't feel confident within themselves, and so
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Speaker 1: a lot of them have to bring down their women
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Speaker 1: there with to feel like they're you know, superior, and
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Speaker 1: it comes from an internal lack of you know self
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Speaker 1: concept insecurity. Not to say that this particular husband was insecure,
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Speaker 1: I'm just noting how how successful and smart she is. Okay,
7:47
Speaker 1: Dave Max, syndicated talk show host, I'm so far afield
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Speaker 1: right now. But this is the thing, Dave, Matt and
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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, I think you can identify with this. When
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Speaker 1: I would go out to prepare a case and i'd
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Speaker 1: go to a witness's home, I'd like to sit down
8:01
Speaker 1: with a witness on their sofa. I remember one lady,
8:05
Speaker 1: miss Leola. Her home was gorgeous. Everything was completely white,
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Speaker 1: and she had everything covered in that real hard plastic
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Speaker 1: and I would sit down on the plastic every time,
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Speaker 1: and she would bring me a cup of coffee or
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Speaker 1: tea or whatever and very carefully translation, do not spill
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Speaker 1: this on my white upholstery. But do you know she
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Speaker 1: became one of my very, very best friends. Her son
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Speaker 1: was killed in a murtyr over a ten dollar debt.
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Speaker 1: And to just sit down and talk to the witness,
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Speaker 1: hear them, hear what they have to say, all the background,
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Speaker 1: because the devil is in the details, Dave mac The
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Speaker 1: devil is in the details. Now you're telling me about
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Speaker 1: her success. She has children, he told me about one
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Speaker 1: that's autistic. That takes a lot of love. Okay, did
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Speaker 1: she have any other children? Any? Okay? So one child?
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Speaker 1: You know that's a big stress on her. Rge right there,
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Speaker 1: just having children, period, would you agree, Jackie? Just any? Yeah? Okay,
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Speaker 1: she's yeah, she's crying. I wonder why. So that's enough stress,
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Speaker 1: much less trying to help an autistic child through the
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Speaker 1: world very difficult. So Dave Matt, can I move us
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Speaker 1: up to the day she goes missing? And I know
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Speaker 1: she's busy, she's running two facilities, she's got an autistic child,
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Speaker 1: she's got a husband. Now where do I go from there?
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Speaker 1: Her normal routine was to start at the gym at
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Speaker 1: five am. She didn't show up. Oh, dear Lord in Heaven,
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Speaker 1: I'm a failure. Okay, So did you say at the
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Speaker 1: gym at five am? Yes, ma'am. She had. She had
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Speaker 1: a regular routine, and it was so regular that when
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Speaker 1: she didn't show up at five am to work out
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Speaker 1: with her friends, they immediately started thinking, Hey, something's wrong.
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Speaker 1: When she didn't show up for work, that's when they knew,
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Speaker 1: we've got to go to the house. We've got to
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Speaker 1: find out what's going on. She wasn't answering her phone,
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Speaker 1: Andrea wasn't answering his phone. So these two friends and
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Speaker 1: they go to her house. The search for Andreine Nicole
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Speaker 1: McDonald hits close to home for so many san Antonians.
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Speaker 1: Melinda Panell is a former military police officer, a female entrepreneur,
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Speaker 1: and a mom. She's a local businesswoman. The fact that
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Speaker 1: she's a spouse of an Air Force major, the fact
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Speaker 1: that so many people friends and family that know and
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Speaker 1: love her have said what an amazing woman she is
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Speaker 1: just it inspired me to say, I need to do
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Speaker 1: my part. She was one of around five hundred people
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Speaker 1: who canvassed the post looking for signs of McDonald. The
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Speaker 1: Sheriff's office says McDonald has been missing since March first,
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Speaker 1: when she didn't make it to work and wasn't at
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Speaker 1: her home in far North Beer County. Family and friends
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Speaker 1: are holding out hope and even those who don't know
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Speaker 1: her say they're keeping the search top of mind. As
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Speaker 1: a fellow female, as a fellow Sanantonian to come out
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Speaker 1: and help to do my part. You're hearing our friends
10:55
Speaker 1: at k e n S five Eyewitness News. That was
10:58
Speaker 1: Eric Zuko report on missing on Dream McDonald a mom,
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Speaker 1: a business person, a wife, loyal to friends and family.
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Speaker 1: Still we don't know where on dream McDonald is the
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Speaker 1: tip line two one zero three three five six zero
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Speaker 1: seven zero repeat two one zero three three five six
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Speaker 1: zero seven zero to Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now renowned
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Speaker 1: Atlanta criminal defense attorney Daryl and listening to her friend
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Speaker 1: and it reminds me of the camaraderie and the friends
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Speaker 1: that I had within the District Attorney's office and especially
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Speaker 1: with my investigator Ernest, and when you go through so
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Speaker 1: much together and I've told this story before, Daryl. I
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Speaker 1: was out. I believe I was in the Red Oak
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Speaker 1: Housing project. I think that's where I was looking for
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Speaker 1: witnesses with Ernest. And it was bright, bright, early morning,
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Speaker 1: and you know all the dopers sleep till two or
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Speaker 1: three o'clock, so we knew we were going to find witnesses,
12:05
Speaker 1: all right, And that's who I was looking for, her doper.
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Speaker 1: And we knocked at the door and it was dark
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Speaker 1: on the inside. The door was open except for a
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Speaker 1: screen door, and I remember he saw it first. A
12:19
Speaker 1: the barrel of shotgun came out and he grabbed me
12:24
Speaker 1: by the shoulders and we both dove off of the
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Speaker 1: porch into the bushes. That's just one example of things
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Speaker 1: that happened that you really bond with people over the years.
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Speaker 1: And this woman, Andrew McDonald has all these friends out
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Speaker 1: looking for her. I'm really impressed with who she is, Darrell.
12:52
Speaker 1: I'm very impressed with who she is. And I'm afraid
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Speaker 1: to say who she was, but it seems to me
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Speaker 1: that she has just such great heights and all the
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Speaker 1: things that she did, because life for her was a
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Speaker 1: very good one with all the people that she dealt with,
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Speaker 1: so it's not a good thing that she's disappeared. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: especially her routine. And you know, I always refer to
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Speaker 1: the ad Non Sayed case Darrel when I'm talking about
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Speaker 1: quote routine evidence. Because the one day of all days
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Speaker 1: that his girlfriend who broke up with him, hate Lee,
13:27
Speaker 1: disappears is a day he did not follow his routine
13:31
Speaker 1: for years. Go to school, get out of school, go
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Speaker 1: straight to track practice. His dad would pick him up,
13:36
Speaker 1: same thing every day of his life. That day, suddenly
13:39
Speaker 1: he decides to go to the public library. It's out
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Speaker 1: of routine. He's a public library of crime. No, but
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Speaker 1: it's not the routine. Dave Matt, you were telling me
13:47
Speaker 1: about her not being at the workout club at five
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Speaker 1: a m. You know, I was proud of myself that
13:54
Speaker 1: I get up at five am. But I am not
13:55
Speaker 1: on a treadmail at five am. I'm dragging around trying
13:59
Speaker 1: to get the children's breakfast ready. So, Dave Matt, you
14:02
Speaker 1: left off with the friends get to the home. What
14:05
Speaker 1: happens When they get to her house. They aren't getting
14:08
Speaker 1: any answers on any of the phone. They go to
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Speaker 1: the front door, no answer, So they start going around
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Speaker 1: the house trying to find any way to her car.
14:16
Speaker 1: There was her car in the garage, yes, ma'am. Her
14:19
Speaker 1: Malibu is in the garage. And as the friends walked around,
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Speaker 1: they found a back door unlocked and let themselves in.
14:27
Speaker 1: That's when they immediately saw certain evidence that made them realize,
14:32
Speaker 1: we've got a bigger problem. That's actually at the same
14:35
Speaker 1: time they're opening the door to go in, they notice
14:37
Speaker 1: a fresh burn pile in the backyard and what appears
14:41
Speaker 1: to be maybe clothing that belonged to Andreane in this
14:45
Speaker 1: burn pile. That's when they call the police. Okay, wait
14:47
Speaker 1: a minute, They clothes belonged to her one, yes, ma'am.
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Speaker 1: And when the police showed up, they actually found a
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Speaker 1: whole lot more. The friends actually discovered blood and hair
15:00
Speaker 1: on light switch. They found what appeared to be blood
15:03
Speaker 1: in the bathroom. When police Kate were called and came out,
15:08
Speaker 1: they found even more evidence of other blood and the
15:12
Speaker 1: smell of bleach was very strong, so they suspected that
15:14
Speaker 1: it had been, you know, an attempt to clean this
15:16
Speaker 1: up as well. Hold on to Vincent Hill, private investigator
15:19
Speaker 1: and author of playbook to a Murder on Amazon, so
15:25
Speaker 1: now we know they get there. The first thing when
15:28
Speaker 1: they see her Chevy Malibu parked. That's way wrong because
15:32
Speaker 1: she would have called her friends to say I'm not
15:34
Speaker 1: going to make it today, or to at least text them.
15:37
Speaker 1: They get there and the back doors open. Also wrong,
15:40
Speaker 1: she always locked her doors. We know whatever happened to
15:45
Speaker 1: Drene happened that morning before she went to work out
15:50
Speaker 1: or to work. Now, if it could have happened in
15:53
Speaker 1: the early morning hours, it could have happened during the night.
15:57
Speaker 1: We don't know that yet. But Vincent Hill, the fact
16:01
Speaker 1: that they smell bleach, that says cover up, That says
16:08
Speaker 1: staging the scene, which she's really just changing the scene
16:12
Speaker 1: in any way. And I have long said and I
16:14
Speaker 1: want to hear what Daryl and doctor Bober have to
16:15
Speaker 1: say about this. If it's a random kidnap or a
16:19
Speaker 1: you know, you see a woman, You're like, Hey, I'm
16:21
Speaker 1: gonna rate Per. I'm going to kidnap Per. I'm going
16:23
Speaker 1: to steal her car or her valuables. You grab the
16:26
Speaker 1: woman and you leave here. Took the time to put
16:32
Speaker 1: out bleach, and even more so to do a burn
16:35
Speaker 1: pit in the backyard. What does that mean, Vincent Hilt,
16:39
Speaker 1: What it means to me is that it's not random.
16:42
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, Nancy, because if it was a simple
16:45
Speaker 1: home invasion, no one's taking that much time. They're getting in,
16:48
Speaker 1: they're getting out, they're doing what they gotta do. But
16:51
Speaker 1: here's what's more troubling. Nancy. David talked about her going
16:54
Speaker 1: to the gym. I've been trolling her Instagram account and
16:57
Speaker 1: she's literally deadlifting three hounds. She literally has her husband
17:02
Speaker 1: on her back in one of the photos, so she's
17:05
Speaker 1: very strong. So whatever happened, it wasn't easy. I assure you.
17:10
Speaker 1: There was a struggle going on inside that home, Nancy,
17:12
Speaker 1: and the fact that the neighbors found blood and clothing
17:15
Speaker 1: that were burned that belonged to her. Something horrible went
17:19
Speaker 1: on in that house. But it wasn't easy for whoever
17:21
Speaker 1: did it. Hey, Alan Duke, I want you to look
17:24
Speaker 1: at that article that you unearthed and you sent to me.
17:28
Speaker 1: Look at her hair. Look how well she's beautiful. She's
17:32
Speaker 1: got a million dollars smile that costs some money right there,
17:34
Speaker 1: teeth perfect, But look at her long hair. You know
17:39
Speaker 1: that hair took hours to make it look like that.
17:42
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I know from experience, not from my hair.
17:45
Speaker 1: But from my wife's hair. Yeah, you just take hers
17:47
Speaker 1: in a ponytail and go about your business. That's all
17:49
Speaker 1: I do. And look at that And when I think
17:51
Speaker 1: about that hair getting yanked out of her head and
17:54
Speaker 1: mixed with blood on a light switch. Do you see
17:58
Speaker 1: her picture, Alan, I'm looking at her. She's so beautiful.
18:02
Speaker 1: In fact, when I found this page, this is a
18:04
Speaker 1: page that is published before she became a news story
18:08
Speaker 1: for vanishing, but it talks about how successful she is
18:12
Speaker 1: and what a tragedy if something happened to her because
18:15
Speaker 1: she was such a star in the San Antonio area. Well,
18:19
Speaker 1: you have a daughter, and you've been through your ups
18:21
Speaker 1: and downs with her as we all have, as we
18:23
Speaker 1: all have, and look how great she turned out. Alan,
18:26
Speaker 1: that's a testament to you and her mom. But was
18:29
Speaker 1: I'm really worried about this autistic child, who, as we learn,
18:33
Speaker 1: becomes a key piece of this investigation. Crime stories with
18:49
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, the investigator search for clues that can help
18:56
Speaker 1: them find a missing mother. She's been missing for a
18:58
Speaker 1: week and Bear County share investigators believe her husband, Andre
19:02
Speaker 1: McDonald played a role in her disappearance. Sheriff Javier Salazar
19:06
Speaker 1: says Andre McDonald, a major in the Air Force, refused
19:09
Speaker 1: to help investigators find to his wife. Investigators say they
19:12
Speaker 1: found blood and hair on a light switch and a
19:15
Speaker 1: burn pile in the backyard of the couple's Far Northside home.
19:18
Speaker 1: Investigators found disturbing items at the home, including an axe,
19:21
Speaker 1: a shovel, and gasolene. Quite frankly, there may be a
19:24
Speaker 1: body out laying in the woods that again, we would
19:28
Speaker 1: help us bring closure to this case and to one
19:31
Speaker 1: little girl that I feel that we owe answers to
19:33
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to rest until we find her
19:35
Speaker 1: and until we get her back to her family. Are
19:37
Speaker 1: is Andrea McDonald? It's really disturbing me. Dave Max indicated
19:41
Speaker 1: talks to host the husband isn't helping. He actually invokes
19:44
Speaker 1: the very first time that the police talked to him
19:47
Speaker 1: about his wife's disappearance. Interesting to all of this, Nancy,
19:51
Speaker 1: is that when police arrived the first time, they found
19:54
Speaker 1: a dream's purse, ID card, keys and other personal items
19:57
Speaker 1: in a burn pile. They then talked to Andre the
20:00
Speaker 1: first time about his wife's whereabouts, and he told them
20:02
Speaker 1: his wife was a Baptist emergency hospital. Okay, she's at
20:06
Speaker 1: the hospital, they call him, They're like, no, she's not.
20:09
Speaker 1: That's when he invoked. Is that I'm not talking anymore.
20:11
Speaker 1: I want an attorney. So when you say he invoked,
20:13
Speaker 1: he man, he invoked his right to remain silent, the
20:15
Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment protection. Yes, ma'am. Wow, And that's when they
20:19
Speaker 1: started following him. Let me go back to the crime scene,
20:22
Speaker 1: David mac and I refer to it as the crime
20:25
Speaker 1: scene because I'm convinced that's where Andrea McDonald was taken.
20:29
Speaker 1: Take me through all the evidence, for instance, what was
20:31
Speaker 1: in the garage, what was in the bathroom? Tell me everything? Okay, Well,
20:35
Speaker 1: when the police actually started doing a search of the home, okay,
20:39
Speaker 1: they immediately said they found blood evidence on a light
20:42
Speaker 1: switch with hairy In the master bedroom, they found what
20:45
Speaker 1: appeared to be a lot of blood and more hair.
20:48
Speaker 1: In the bathroom, they found once again more blood that
20:52
Speaker 1: did turn out to be human blood. They found what
20:55
Speaker 1: appeared to be well they could smell the bleach, so
20:58
Speaker 1: it appeared that there had been an attempt to clean
21:00
Speaker 1: up this scene. On top of that, there was a
21:03
Speaker 1: burn pile that was witnessed by the two friends who
21:06
Speaker 1: showed up early. One burn pile when the police arrived
21:09
Speaker 1: later that day, they found evidence of a second burn
21:12
Speaker 1: pile in the backyard, which is where they found a
21:15
Speaker 1: number of Audreen's personal effects in the burn pile. The
21:19
Speaker 1: police then found her Malibu in the garage, and they
21:24
Speaker 1: found other evidence around the home. They found what appeared
21:28
Speaker 1: to be some items that have been purchased recently, a shovel,
21:31
Speaker 1: an axe, a hatchet, large garbage bags, gloves, two five
21:36
Speaker 1: gallon gas cans. They also found a portable burn barrel.
21:42
Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor, Atlantic defense attorney Darryl Cohen,
21:48
Speaker 1: I'm thinking through all of this, I know the husband
21:51
Speaker 1: quit speaking immediately. The same thing happened was Scott Peterson,
21:56
Speaker 1: and they remember Mark Garigoes, his defense lawyer now presenting. R.
22:00
Speaker 1: Kelly said at the time, of course, he clammed up
22:04
Speaker 1: and didn't want to talk because he was the focus.
22:07
Speaker 1: He knew it that he was the target. It reminds
22:11
Speaker 1: me a lot of the John ban A Ramsey case
22:14
Speaker 1: as well, because whoever killed John Benet was not worried
22:19
Speaker 1: that they would be caught by the inhabitants of the home.
22:23
Speaker 1: They staged the scene. They took time to write a
22:28
Speaker 1: three page ransom note, and then another three page ransom note.
22:33
Speaker 1: There was a practice note. They took a lot of
22:36
Speaker 1: time hiding John Benee's body. And it's just interesting to
22:42
Speaker 1: me that someone would break into a home, commit a
22:45
Speaker 1: heinous crime and then feel very at ease in taking
22:50
Speaker 1: their time to cover up the crime. Daryl Cohen and see,
22:55
Speaker 1: it seems to me that we have to look at
22:57
Speaker 1: the possibility, albeit very slight, that she stayed something. But
23:01
Speaker 1: when you have no worries. We mentioned that she had
23:05
Speaker 1: a routine, so he knows the routine. He knows that
23:08
Speaker 1: no one is going to be at the house. Whoever
23:11
Speaker 1: did this, and I'm saying he whoever did this knew
23:14
Speaker 1: exactly how much time they had, which was just unlimited time,
23:20
Speaker 1: so there was no hurry, there was no oh my gosh,
23:22
Speaker 1: I've got to get this done. I am not worried
23:25
Speaker 1: about it. I have to methodically and meticulously take care
23:29
Speaker 1: of this scene to try to erase and eradicate anything
23:32
Speaker 1: that may be here that can incriminate me. So that
23:35
Speaker 1: is I see it as you do at this time.
23:38
Speaker 1: Unusual we see it together, but I think we see
23:41
Speaker 1: the same thing. Dude, This and he'll private investigator, author
23:43
Speaker 1: of playbook to a Murder. To me, the most valuable
23:48
Speaker 1: evidence is the blood evidence in the hair on the
23:50
Speaker 1: light switch, because if it turns out she is dead,
23:54
Speaker 1: which I agree, and I don't like it, but I
23:55
Speaker 1: think Adrene is dead. That shows me there was a
23:59
Speaker 1: great ruggle. That tells me that it was not an accident,
24:04
Speaker 1: That it was not owe an accidental overdose of painkiller
24:08
Speaker 1: or sleeping pills. Tells me there was a violent struggle
24:12
Speaker 1: in that home, a struggle that required Bleach to clean
24:15
Speaker 1: up the same Vincent Hill. Yeah, Nancy, it wasn't an accident.
24:19
Speaker 1: And keep in mind too, if there was blood in
24:21
Speaker 1: here on the light switch, it happened over a period
24:23
Speaker 1: of time and probably several spots of that house. So
24:26
Speaker 1: she was an agonizing pain while this was going on.
24:30
Speaker 1: She was probably trying to get away from the situation.
24:32
Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Daniel Bob or forensic psychiatrist.
24:36
Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated, not in a good way, a
24:40
Speaker 1: morbid fascination. When people have the wherewithal to clean up
24:46
Speaker 1: a murder or kidnap scene, I mean, what is going
24:50
Speaker 1: through their head? It reminds me of for instance, Chris Watts,
24:55
Speaker 1: after he murdered his wife, Shanan, who was pregnant with
24:59
Speaker 1: baby Nico, then murdered both of his children, then crammed
25:05
Speaker 1: their bodies into oil drums through a very small opening,
25:10
Speaker 1: like a nine inch opening. Imagine those little girls shoulders
25:13
Speaker 1: going through that opening. Burying his wife in a shallow grave.
25:18
Speaker 1: What does he do? Stop by a convenience store and
25:22
Speaker 1: get a biscuit, ham biscuit or something and a drink
25:26
Speaker 1: and kind of chats up the blonde cashier. It's like, Hey,
25:32
Speaker 1: no problem. I can't really relate to that, because I'm
25:37
Speaker 1: just thinking. I remember I just got in the twins
25:40
Speaker 1: back to New York, and they had bathed them and
25:43
Speaker 1: got them on their pj's, and I called my mom
25:46
Speaker 1: and she said that they wanted to put my dad
25:48
Speaker 1: on life support. And I remember that moment, I couldn't
25:52
Speaker 1: even think straight, and somehow got everybody dressed again and
25:58
Speaker 1: out on the sidewalk. Right now, it's like eleven o'clock
26:01
Speaker 1: at night. We're out on the sidewalk, and I'm just
26:05
Speaker 1: I can remember hearing it, but it didn't seem to
26:07
Speaker 1: be coming from me. Screaming for a taxi it was
26:13
Speaker 1: just a blur trying to get home to my dad.
26:18
Speaker 1: And how do you have the wherewithal at a time
26:22
Speaker 1: like that to go open up a bottle of bleach
26:25
Speaker 1: and mop the floor. Doctor Daniel Bober, I think Nancy
26:28
Speaker 1: at that point is pure self preservation. I think what's
26:31
Speaker 1: going through your mind is I have to do everything
26:33
Speaker 1: I can do to not get caught. I have to
26:35
Speaker 1: do everything I can to protect myself. This has to succeed,
26:38
Speaker 1: and I have to make sure to get every detail
26:40
Speaker 1: right because I need to get out of this and
26:41
Speaker 1: I don't want to get caught. I think that's literally
26:43
Speaker 1: what's going through his mind. The evidence consisted of a shovel,
26:46
Speaker 1: an axe, some heavy duty trash bags, some work gloves,
26:50
Speaker 1: and two five gallon containers of gasoline in a burn
26:55
Speaker 1: pit or burn pit or burn barrel. It led us
26:59
Speaker 1: to believe that these were implements that were going to
27:03
Speaker 1: be used in disposal money quite obviously to us, which
27:07
Speaker 1: which really tends to drive home the point to us
27:10
Speaker 1: that we believe that the Dendren McDonald is no longer living.
27:14
Speaker 1: You were hearing Javier Salazar from the Bear County Sheriff's
27:18
Speaker 1: Department talking to reporters, and he's talking about and Rane's husband,
27:25
Speaker 1: Andre Dave Mack. What happened When police were looking over
27:31
Speaker 1: the scene the first time they saw in his car
27:35
Speaker 1: under a in his vehicle, they found traces of blood.
27:39
Speaker 1: At that point, they decided to tail him because he
27:41
Speaker 1: wasn't talking. He had told them that his wife was
27:43
Speaker 1: at the hospital. So that's when they tail him. They
27:45
Speaker 1: tail him to the gun store, where something inside the
27:48
Speaker 1: gun store spooked him. He left his ID, he left
27:51
Speaker 1: the gun that he was purchasing. He did grab the ammunition.
27:55
Speaker 1: That's when they stopped. They said, okay, that's it. They
27:57
Speaker 1: saw a shovel in his car while they were taking him,
28:02
Speaker 1: they were going to take him for evaluation. They saw
28:05
Speaker 1: the shovel in his car and that's what prompted the
28:07
Speaker 1: second search warrant, but more specific search warrant for his
28:09
Speaker 1: house and car. It was at that time that they
28:12
Speaker 1: actually found he had tried to destroy two torn receipts okay,
28:16
Speaker 1: receipts showing that he just purchased the shovel, the axe,
28:20
Speaker 1: the hatchet, the gas cans, the gloves, the bags, all
28:24
Speaker 1: of that evidence that they have. He tried to destroy
28:27
Speaker 1: the receipts. So what they charged him with and rested
28:30
Speaker 1: him was for tampering with evidence because he tried to
28:33
Speaker 1: ruin the receipts to prove that he had just bought
28:36
Speaker 1: that stuff that morning. You know, Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor
28:40
Speaker 1: with me now defense attorney, Darryl Cohen, I just love receipts.
28:44
Speaker 1: You know what I love even more than receipts, video
28:47
Speaker 1: surveillance at Walmart and Target. I could just watch it
28:49
Speaker 1: all day long. I love it when the husband comes
28:52
Speaker 1: in and buys bleach and tarps and shovels and saws
28:57
Speaker 1: and axes and a portable earn pit. It's just it
29:02
Speaker 1: makes me so happy. But Daryl co and I know
29:05
Speaker 1: it's just burning you up, burning you up that they
29:10
Speaker 1: have arrested him on destroying a receipt and that's the
29:13
Speaker 1: only charge and he's gnashing his teeth and twisting his
29:17
Speaker 1: tail in jail on a receipt charge. Well, Nancy, you
29:20
Speaker 1: can't legislate intelligence. Here's a guy that you mentioned earlier
29:25
Speaker 1: was not very bright, and it seems to me that
29:28
Speaker 1: I never said that. I never said he wasn't bright.
29:31
Speaker 1: He was smart enough to marry on Drean McDonald, who
29:33
Speaker 1: owns two assistant facility living facilities taking care of an
29:37
Speaker 1: autistic child, gets up in a gym at five o'clock
29:39
Speaker 1: in the morning. Well he did something right, greedy, but
29:43
Speaker 1: not necessarily bright. And here's a guy who probably did
29:47
Speaker 1: this on the spur of the moment and then went
29:50
Speaker 1: through every machination he could to cover his butt. He
29:54
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. He was paddicked. He cleaned up,
29:57
Speaker 1: but he didn't clean up carefully. Everything he did shows
30:01
Speaker 1: in my view that he was scared to do as
30:04
Speaker 1: he did. This horrible this Keena's deed. He committed a
30:07
Speaker 1: murder and now he's got to protect himself. But what
30:10
Speaker 1: he went to protect him? There? See there sat That's
30:14
Speaker 1: why they have arrested him, because he destroyed a receipt.
30:19
Speaker 1: That's the only thing they've got him. All. Listen to
30:21
Speaker 1: the Bear County shore right now. He started for tempering
30:23
Speaker 1: with evidence again in trying to conceal the purchase of
30:28
Speaker 1: what we believe we're going to be in limits to
30:30
Speaker 1: dispose of the body. Has he said anything so unus
30:33
Speaker 1: He has not said much. When we originally came into
30:35
Speaker 1: contact with him on Friday, evening. He lawyered up pretty quick.
30:39
Speaker 1: He exerted his right to counsel, which he absolutely has,
30:44
Speaker 1: and but it made us a bit suspicious. Not the
30:48
Speaker 1: fact that he asserted his rights, the fact that he
30:50
Speaker 1: didn't seem to care very much at all of his
30:52
Speaker 1: wife was missing, and the fact that he just flat
30:54
Speaker 1: out and refused to help us with finding her. I
30:57
Speaker 1: think one of those heartbreaking aspects of this case is
31:00
Speaker 1: that at the center of this is a little girl.
31:02
Speaker 1: He's six years old, who, quite frankly speaking for all
31:07
Speaker 1: intensive purposes, just lost two parents. And this little girl
31:12
Speaker 1: is autistic, mostly nonverbal, and to us and I can't
31:15
Speaker 1: go too much into him, but to us, it's pretty
31:17
Speaker 1: evident that she saw something. She saw what happened to
31:20
Speaker 1: her mom. The reason the receipt is so important, guys,
31:23
Speaker 1: is this is the receipt for all of those items
31:25
Speaker 1: to shovel, the acts of gasoline, the trash bags. He's
31:29
Speaker 1: got the receipt, and he destroyed that receipt. That is
31:33
Speaker 1: the only reason he's behind bars. I don't know how
31:36
Speaker 1: long they can really keep him behind bars on a
31:38
Speaker 1: charge like that, but I just heard something very very important.
31:41
Speaker 1: Dave Max indicated talk show host about the autistic child.
31:44
Speaker 1: You know, the police have stated that they believe that
31:47
Speaker 1: she witnessed what happened between her mother and father. Now,
31:50
Speaker 1: this is coming from one of those first witnesses who
31:53
Speaker 1: actually is a friend of the family. She was one
31:55
Speaker 1: of the people who went there to try to find
31:56
Speaker 1: on dream the morning she didn't show up to work
31:58
Speaker 1: out or at work. They said that when they talked
32:01
Speaker 1: to the little girl when they got her out of school,
32:03
Speaker 1: they asked her if she knew what happened, and one
32:06
Speaker 1: of the women actually taped her using a cell phone.
32:09
Speaker 1: And the little girl, who is she's on the spectrum
32:12
Speaker 1: of autism, is fairly non verbal, but she does speak Nancy.
32:16
Speaker 1: According to these witnesses. In that video, she said that
32:19
Speaker 1: daddy hurt mommy, and she made a choking noise like
32:23
Speaker 1: mommy was having trouble breathing, and she asked, did you
32:26
Speaker 1: get all the blood cleaned up? Those are the things
32:29
Speaker 1: that we know the police have, which is why they're
32:31
Speaker 1: saying they believe she saw everything. No, that just breaks
32:35
Speaker 1: my heart. Doctor boy, riv worked was so many children
32:39
Speaker 1: and a lot of times they don't explain things like
32:43
Speaker 1: most people can understand them. But once you can unlock
32:46
Speaker 1: their language and understand, look at their pictures, try to
32:49
Speaker 1: place their words with what you believe happened. It all
32:54
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense to say, Mommy couldn't breathe, did you clean?
32:59
Speaker 1: Did you get all the bloo? What up? I think
33:00
Speaker 1: that says it all, doctor Bober. Yes, I agree, Nancy,
33:03
Speaker 1: And that's probably even more so true with someone who
33:06
Speaker 1: is autistic and sees the world through a different lens
33:09
Speaker 1: than other kids. Do you know Vincent Hill, private eye,
33:12
Speaker 1: former cop, author of playbook to a Murderer on Amazon.
33:16
Speaker 1: I just feels a sense of sadness because I'm looking
33:19
Speaker 1: at the photos of them together. Here's one he made.
33:23
Speaker 1: It's called Happy Wife, Happy Life, and he's smiling and
33:29
Speaker 1: he's put hearts all over the picture. Here's one of them.
33:33
Speaker 1: I think she's sitting in his lap. They're smiling, and
33:37
Speaker 1: they have it all. They've got it all, Vincent, And
33:42
Speaker 1: I guess the social media paints a very different picture
33:44
Speaker 1: than what we know to be true. I mean, he filed.
33:47
Speaker 1: Jackie's telling me he filed for divorce in twenty seventeen,
33:50
Speaker 1: and then they got back together. Vincent, Yeah, Nancy, they
33:53
Speaker 1: did filet He did file for divorce in two seventeen,
33:56
Speaker 1: and I'm actually looking at a picture with them holding
33:58
Speaker 1: a key saying they at their first home in June
34:01
Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen. So, but the thing about domestic violing, Nancy,
34:06
Speaker 1: and you know this better than anyone, what looks really
34:08
Speaker 1: good on the outside can be hell on the inside.
34:11
Speaker 1: We don't know what was going on inside that home.
34:14
Speaker 1: And what's really troubling, Nancy, is I wonder why he
34:17
Speaker 1: purchased a gun after his wife went missing after this
34:20
Speaker 1: burn pit. Is there someone else that could have been
34:22
Speaker 1: a potential target? What was the point of the gun
34:25
Speaker 1: at this point, Nancy. That's that's very troubling, or maybe
34:28
Speaker 1: a witness, you know, Daryl. When I was prosecuting, I
34:33
Speaker 1: also volunteered at the batter Women's Center for nine and
34:36
Speaker 1: a half years and it was amazing to me. And
34:39
Speaker 1: I can't reveal any more than what I am, but
34:43
Speaker 1: the rich, educated people that were beating their wives, including
34:50
Speaker 1: major politicians in the city of Atlanta, whose wives would
34:55
Speaker 1: call in and we all knew who it was, We
34:57
Speaker 1: all knew what was happening, and we try and try
35:01
Speaker 1: and try, But I guess my question would be Darryl,
35:06
Speaker 1: can you prove a murder without a body. Oh, absolutely,
35:09
Speaker 1: we can prove a murder without a body. But I'll
35:11
Speaker 1: tell you why I think he purchased a gun. I
35:14
Speaker 1: think with the investigation is fully complete, you're going to
35:16
Speaker 1: find that she was either having an affair or he
35:19
Speaker 1: thought she was having an affair, and he's going after
35:22
Speaker 1: the guy that he believes that she was having an
35:24
Speaker 1: affair with. That's why I think, Daryl, Well, I don't
35:28
Speaker 1: know another way to say this, but is it all
35:30
Speaker 1: about sex? With you? We have not even a santilla,
35:34
Speaker 1: not even a shred, not even a spec of evidence
35:37
Speaker 1: to suggest she was having an affair. How about him
35:39
Speaker 1: having an affair? Put that in your wife and't smoke it.
35:42
Speaker 1: You know what cut his mind cuts mine? I don't
35:44
Speaker 1: even want to hear it. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing
35:47
Speaker 1: off before I hear Daryl Cohen say one more word
35:49
Speaker 1: about the victim. Goodbye quickly