Latest / The Authority Podcast — Expert Insights and Fresh Ideas for Education Leaders / You're a Teacher Now! What's Next? with Alex Kajitani and Tom Hierck
Transcript
- Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome in everyone. You are listening to the Authority Podcast here on the Be Podcast Network. Thanks as always for being with us, talking about a great topic today, an evergreen topic and one that has a sense of urgency really all the time but it has the unique dynamics that are happening at a given point in time as far as new teachers, their introduction to the profession, and how we set them up for success. My guests today are Alex Kajitani and Tom Hierck. Alex is the 2009 California Teacher of the Year and was top four finalist for National Teacher of the Year. He is a highly sought after education speaker known around the world as the Rappin Mathematician. [00:01:00] He has a popular TED Talk and he was also honored at the White House. Tom was recently named one of the world's top 10 global gurus for education and his belief that every student is a success story waiting to be told. Has led him to work with teachers and administrators across the globe to create positive school cultures and build effective relationships that facilitate learning for all students. And as I'm reading that this is literally true, Tom is just, coming back from the Arctic Circle. So when I say across the globe, I think sometimes maybe we exaggerate that a little bit, but this is a truly the case for Tom. Tom and Alex are co authors of a book called you're a teacher. Now what's next. That is what we're talking about today. Tom and Alex, welcome to the show. Alex Kajitani: Thanks for having us. Tom Hierck: And what a great opportunity to be with you and your audience. Thank you very much. Ross Romano: Yeah, let's jump right into this. It's a important topic is, I mean, I don't have to tell you guys wrote the book on it. But but certainly [00:02:00] one. That deserves a lot of attention and attention from everybody inside schools, but let's start with those teachers, they enter the profession, they say, what have I gotten myself into here? Right? The question that comes up again and again with respect to that question, and especially all of the factors Today, 2025, what's happening in schools and classrooms and what the profession looks like why is this the book for right now? What are the important things to address with respect to, how do we basically get teachers through that part of the question, right, to the next step? The next stage where they really feel like they're getting into their profession. Alex, let's start with you. And then Tom, you'll you'll have, I'm sure plenty of thoughts as well. Alex Kajitani: Yeah. Thanks. I think that's a great question really as you say what have I gotten myself into? And that's really where this book begins Tom and [00:03:00] I both independently were working with new teachers for Tom across the world, me across the country. And we were noticing that the same questions kept coming up. You know, from new teachers. Hey, how do I build relationships with students or how do I manage my classroom? You know, how do I even take care of myself? And so as we began talking, we really wanted to create a resource that answer these questions, but did so that. In a way that just felt like you were having a cup of coffee with a colleague, right? As opposed to a thick academic textbook kind of thing. And so we really took the questions that new teachers were asking us and sought some simple implementable answers. So that's one of the things that I'm really excited about with this book. But then the other one was, it's really an acknowledgement that not every teacher is now coming to teaching through this traditional credential program. They're not doing four years of college and then Teaching teaching credential, which [00:04:00] includes student teaching and maybe, but some teachers, they're just going, they're getting the job and the district is saying, don't worry about it. We'll train you along the way. And so this was really something that a principal can just hand to a new teacher. Hey, you're hired. We're so glad you're here. We are going to train you along the way, but here's where you can just get started. Tom Hierck: Ross you're very accurate in terms of the challenges and we'd like to think it's more unique now. Look it's always been a challenge to get into education, to become an educator. Things that we would all say matter the most once you get to that first class are hardly ever covered in any teacher training programs, right? We we end up learning about how to make a 17 part lesson plan. That you will never, ever use once you get your own classroom. I mean, I still have mine laminated. They're they're in great shape. As we traveled around, we kept hearing the same questions. What is it about? How do I? And some very basic sorts of things around the [00:05:00] organizational structure, the managing of kids with challenging dispositions, the the preparing for, how do I know? And the questions kept being the same regardless of where we were. So, now add that factor of, I believe, based on our experiences, we're in a teacher shortage crunch. I mean, it is definitely a seller's market right now. If you're a teacher, you can pretty much call your shot. As a result, we are starting to see that more and more places are having bigger struggles getting qualified people in. And to the point Alex just made, they're saying, look, you got a degree in something? You got a skill set in something? Come on board. We'll help get you there. But Help get you there in what way, right? And so there really wasn't much in the way of any resources that helped to address, as I said, some of the foundational questions. So our hope was to create this with a very sort of positive feel to what's awesome about this profession and what might be some of the bumps. [00:06:00] How can we help you through those? (ad here) Ross Romano: To fast forward that career path a little bit, but to jump off of one of the things you just said for those teachers who are not necessarily. Totally mid career, but a little bit into their career. They have a little experience and they certainly have acclimated, I guess, to, to their expectations of what the workplace culture is, what it's like in their school. Maybe they're still in the first school they've been in, right? And I think that's an important point about that. Teachers can and should call their shots. You said they should use to their advantage the fact that they have an in demand and an in need skill set to advocate for push forward, like ensure that they are getting what they should be getting out of their workplace. Right. And understanding that. Let me make the best difference. I can where I am. But if I'm in an environment that for whatever reason [00:07:00] is not making that happen, I can look around and see what other opportunities are there, what other schools are in my district. And it's sort of a separate topic here, but I think it's something that the perception and reality has diverged a lot. Like, I've seen it a lot being in working in education, but not being in schools and doing a lot of work and writing white papers and things on the teacher shortage, right? And retention and what a lot of districts are trying to do and how many resources they're putting into it and understanding that for them, they're like desperate to get teachers to come. But then a lot of those teachers are working in a school where they feel like. Almost trapped there because the leadership isn't strong or the culture's not working out and not having the perspective to say, you know what? don't have my, I don't have an either or option of staying in the profession or leave the profession. There are other ways to [00:08:00] continue doing what I love and potentially, if it really comes down to it, go to a different. School and it doesn't mean that I have to move into administration if I don't want to or anything like that Like I can teach and there are opportunities there So I feel like it's important at least to bring that perspective into it too because that's a lot of this You know some of these issues unresolved will trail teachers for years until they either decide. I just can't do this anymore or whatever happens if the school and the teacher and their colleagues aren't able to navigate through some of these new teacher problems. Alex Kajitani: Well, if you know, it's an interesting, it's an interesting sort of point that you bring up Ross because my first job as a teacher was in a very collaborative school that teachers totally supported each other and they helped each other and they checked in on each other and I really was. You know, it felt like we were in it together. Well a few years later we moved and so I had to switch school districts I landed [00:09:00] in another school Which absolutely was not a collaborative culture the teachers kept to themselves They kind of you know, sort of withheld resources from each other and had that been my first school I would have been like i'm out of here, right? And but I probably would have thought Not, I wouldn't have known, you know what, every school is different and I just need to find the right school. I would have thought, oh, this is the way this profession is. And having that experience allowed me to go, oh, you know what? This school is different. But so I need to make, I need from my next school to make sure that I get back to one of those really collaborative cultures. I think another thing that happens with new teachers is they think during their teacher training or whatever, they get an idea. Okay. I want to be a high school teacher, right? And then they go and teach high school and it's not what they expected. And they're they're not being successful when really they actually should have been an elementary school teacher, or maybe it's reversed. Right. But they just think, Oh. Teaching's [00:10:00] not for me when if they had just gone and tried middle school or an elementary school teacher actually Should have been a high school teacher. It's about finding that right place and so, you know while we don't specifically address that in this book I think it's something that often goes unsaid with new teachers is That just because something isn't right doesn't mean all of it's not right It just means that we've got to find you the right seat on the bus Tom Hierck: And also, to your point, Ross you know, I think we end up in this profession thinking that there is some accelerated pathway that if you've been a teacher for 10 years and you've been a successful teacher, then you must become an assistant principal and then a principal. And I can tell you in various leadership roles, I've benefited immensely from having teachers who were going to be great teacher leaders and they needed a chance to move around and do some other things. Right? And so we need to recognize that in this profession. There isn't this hierarchy model. It really is about finding the right fit. [00:11:00] And we ought to celebrate that. You know, one of the neat bits of collateral advantage we've seen from this book that we had not anticipated because we wrote it for one audience, is we've had way more veteran teachers say, Oops, I kept the book. I know I was supposed to mentor this teacher. But there's stuff in here that is a good reminder for me, a rekindling of my passion. So could you please send another copy? Right, because this one's mine now. And so all of a sudden the audience has been broadened around that and so again that notion of there are pieces here that look when you entered the career, you were thinking this is going to be the awesome part. Right, and so how do we get back to that passion, that burning desire you had to be that difference maker? Ross Romano: Yeah. I think that's all very true. I mean, one of the people that I spoke with a couple of years ago now, but the issue persists, but I was working on a white paper, a paper about the teacher shortage and specifically the part of why. Schools of [00:12:00] education are You know, enrolling and graduating so many fewer new teachers than in previous times. And 1 of the things that she said was that the profession has a marketing problem, right? We don't talk about it in ways that make it appealing. We don't talk about. Teachers as skilled professionals. If you are in one of those schools that happens to be, things aren't going that great. You're not hearing about, Oh, there's a lot of other good stuff happening out there. Oh, you know what? Maybe it's where I am. That's the issue, right? You're like you said, Alex, if you hadn't had the first school show you not every place is like this. In a way that none of the but there are other places out there. You wouldn't necessarily be getting that from the way the profession is discussed by the people in the profession, let alone. Public sentiment in the way that [00:13:00] schools and educators are spoken about. Right? So it is really important. I think another thing for educators to think about how what role they may want to play in being ambassadors for the profession and not being dishonest or inauthentic about their experience, but also thinking about this, you Makes a difference to new educators experience potential educators and letting them know what it can be and how they can give back to one another and support each other and not feel like maybe they felt when they started. You know, there's not a lot of entry level jobs where you get stuck in a room and say, you're in charge here. Figure it out. So it is it's a challenging thing. And if you're left in that room alone with the door closed and nobody's popping their head into. To say, how's it going? I've been there, right? It's not going to feel like you're so successful. Alex Kajitani: Yeah, it's funny [00:14:00] because while we have a marketing problem, the teaching profession also has the greatest marketing advantage of all time, which is that students spend 18 years of their lives essentially in our schools in front of teachers. I mean, if you could get anyone to use their, if any company could get Their their people, their customers to use their product for the first 18 years of their lives, pretty sure they'd continue on for the rest of their adult lives, at least thinking well of the product. And so we've got this advantage. I mean, I grew up thinking my teachers were so cool and I wanted to be just like them and some were better than others, but I thought teachers were the coolest people ever. Not everybody's had that experience. Right. And so not everybody wants to spend more time than they have to in a school, especially after they graduate. And so if we could somehow take this the fact that students are in school all day and turn it into them really thinking it's the coolest place ever, I think that would be a huge advantage [00:15:00] to really starting to beef up the pipelines that are starting to clear out with those, in those teacher ed programs. Tom Hierck: Yeah the sad reality is when does the school make a headline, right? It's hardly ever for the awesomeness that exists. I mean, every school I've ever been in is bursting at the seams with good news stories. But that's not sexy enough to grab the headlines of the local paper or the bigger papers, right? It's all the bad stuff that happens in a school that gets further than when there is some labor dispute because then it's, oh, there's those lazy teachers wanting to be paid more. They already get two months up that, that whole diatribe that exists, right? So, to your point, I think we do have some Challenges around marketing what this thing is all about this 14 year experience we call school where kids are exposed to the most talented group of individuals they will ever encounter in their lifetime, right? The talent level at a exists in schools. You're not going to find that anywhere else, and [00:16:00] yet we're pretty quiet about it. We're pretty humble about it, right? And so how do we start to address some of this? And part of it is, as I said, to go back to when you first come in, let's get you, let's get you excited. Let's get you ramped up, right? And some of the challenges that are authentic can be placed in a smaller package rather than them being overwhelming, right? Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those that importance of those early experiences, early experience as a new teachers and the students to your point, Alex, it's making me think of a podcast. I was just listening to a couple of days ago that they were. Talking about the Super Bowl commercials and how come it seems like they're all, these are all only geared toward younger people. How come they're not marketing to us? The the guys having the conversation we're probably in their fifties, sixties, and one says to the other, well, what deodorant do you use? So I use it when's the last time you changed it? When I. 20. Well, that's why, right? You've already made your decision, and you're [00:17:00] not persuadable. So, it's not because they don't value you, it's because they know that they're not going to get you. You already chose what you chose. They need to start young. It's the same thing with those kids, right? By the time they've been in school for 18 years, those new teachers, by the time they've been there for a few years, they've made up their mind about what it is you need to get them at the beginning. Alex Kajitani: Yeah. Well, I got to say also for a new teacher coming into the profession, one of my favorite parts of this book that we've, excuse me, put together is really this importance of taking care of yourself and really taking the time to do that. Not once you're burned out, not once you've had enough, not once you're questioning whether this was the right profession for you and why you joined in the first place, but let's really get this concept of self care and caring for ourselves. As professionals, as humans, as people who have lives outside of work into teachers heads at the beginning so that they can continue to be [00:18:00] happy, be healthy, and keep coming back week after week, year after year. And really, it is a profession that if we do it correctly, really, we can take some time for ourselves to keep ourselves healthy and feeling good. Ross Romano: If you're talking to the new teacher, right? And then kind of the 4 big buckets here in the book and the big things that teachers have to be able to do to be you know, healthy and successful classroom management relationship building, effective instruction, self care to simplify it and. And not make it overwhelming all at once. Is there one of those that stands out as focus on this first, like make this the priority and then build to the next thing? Tom Hierck: Yeah it's interesting. We talked to a lot of emerging teachers, new teachers that are at starting or not yet started. Everyone we've ever talked to has the same objective in mind, right? Everybody gets into education to be a difference maker. [00:19:00] Nobody gets in there to be a chronicler of what is, they get into it to be a shifter of. Well I think Alex and I would agree that that it all begins with establishing those quality relationships, right? So, and so we spent a lot of time in the book trying to talk about how do you do that, right? Some of it's structural things, right? I know there's sometimes we have people that are loathe to say, well, I'm going to have a seating assignment in my class. All right. Well, I know you don't want to seem too restrictive, but how the heck you're going to know who Ross is. If every day Ross comes in, he picks a different seat. Like, it's just overwhelming for you, right? So we, we have some very simple strategy pieces, but I think everything foundationally begins with the relationship. Do those kids feel like the adult in front of the room gives a darn about us? You know, I mentioned earlier, I'm up here in the far north working. The biggest challenge for teachers coming up is these kids have seen a lot of adults come up and go. Because it is really hard to be in a place where it's minus [00:20:00] 40 and you get 24 hours of darkness. But I gotta tell you, if you come back for a second here The whole thing changes because kids believe that you believe in them, right? So, so I see it when I come up here in black and white, but it's the same in any location. If the kids believe the adult is interested, invested in them, sharing stuff, right? They're gonna go I've yet to meet a kid who's connected who disappoints, right? So I think foundationally the structure in the book is built off of that notion that relationships first and foremost Alex Kajitani: Yeah, and I would add to that. I think that's I totally agree with what Tom said. I think that is inextricably linked to and second only and only second inextricably linked, really, and coming in as a close second is really, I think that ability to manage our classroom effectively when You have a classroom that is not well managed. It becomes really hard to build those relationships with students. And if you are managing your classroom while [00:21:00] you are managing it along the way, you're able to build those relationships with students, right? We know standing at the door greeting students as they walk in is excellent classroom management. I personally call it the greatest classroom management strategy of all time. We also know that as the students walk in and say, hi, Every single day you're building those relationships. So I think the two go hand in hand, the better you're managing your classroom, the better and stronger relationships you're building and the stronger relationships you're building. Your classroom now becomes way easier to manage. (ad here) Ross Romano: Seems to me that. One, I guess, mindset or way of looking at these that would serve teachers well, and a little bit of it is being selective, right, is focusing on the strengths that come from the interconnectedness. Of these elements and not the weaknesses, right? Like, being able to focus on each of [00:22:00] them independently. And how do I get better at managing my classroom? And how do I focus on relationships and instruction and self care, et cetera? And not. Feel like one is you're struggling in one area, then everything is falling apart, but also looking at, okay, especially with respect to something like self care that can be a challenge for a lot of people because they feel like they haven't earned it yet, or I need to focus on these other things first and to say, look, if I can focus on this and get this right, it's going to make me in much better position to be able to move forward. Do these other things because I'm feeling good you know, and let me not have my sense of well being and self care be you know, negatively affected because I feel like I gave a bad lesson yesterday, or or there's a one kid that I'm struggling to develop a relationship with but I'm wondering if any of that is kind of making any sense as far as looking at. Okay. Okay. Yes, [00:23:00] eventually, once you have attained a certain level of mastery, you want to be really good at all of these things. That's not going to happen on day one. Getting good at one can make be the foundation for you to get better at the others. But just because you're struggling with one doesn't mean that you're just, you're bad, right? It just means you have areas for improvement. Alex Kajitani: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I think one of the sort of in the back of our mind issues while writing this book. And as we talk about this book is this question of. Can anyone learn to be an effective teacher? Right? Can anybody come in with the right training and essentially, maybe they're not the greatest of the great, or maybe they're not the most inspiring of all time, but could anybody come in and if trained properly learn to be an effective teacher? I think with this book, we certainly get them. And I really think that they could, [00:24:00] like I said, everyone can learn to bring their own personality and their own skill set. And maybe not everybody should be in education. I'm not saying that, but for those who have entered the profession, can we get them to the point where they can be an effective classroom management. Manager, build relationships with students, understand both the science and the art of teaching. And I really think they can, or I really think they can be trained but it's tough. And it also, sometimes new teachers will enter with things that they it's just ends up being a lot harder than you thought it was going to be. There are certain assumptions that, that I had as a new teacher. One of those assumptions was that when I was going to talk, the students were going to listen. Right. There's a basic assumptions. I bet when I was that the students would raise their hand when they wanted to answer a question. And so part of really unpacking this wonderful beautiful thing called teaching is going, Oh, you know what? I thought this, it ends up being that. So I need to rethink it and come at it from another [00:25:00] direction. And then the next year we get a whole new set of students who come in and sort of blow up that game. And sometimes we have to it. Take what we've already learned and build on it and switch things up. And so it's that constant evolution of teaching that I love the most, but that I also hope that this book can encourage teachers to really grasp because they're really hammering the fundamentals that we lay out. Tom Hierck: Turns out not every kid loved chemistry as much as I did. Who knew? I thought the heavens would open up, the light would shine down upon them when they learned how to balance chemical equations, right? Well, maybe that was my experience, but it wasn't necessarily shared by every kid I taught. And so how do we have that moment of, equally, I think every educator's had that lesson that just everything flowed, right? You thought, okay, today's why I became a teacher. Then the next year you give that same lesson and it's crickets, right? Well, yeah, different context. So what we've tried to provide in this book is this this reality check. It's not always going to be that [00:26:00] way, right? You know, it, there, there's a reason why almost half teachers leave within the first five years of the profession, right? Now we're trying to address some of this by saying, look, there's some tools, there's some basic foundational aspects. And to your point, let's say you're good at this, but here's the growth area. Now, how do we grow? Part of it is a colleague to colleague thing. And I don't know that we've done enough of that, of leaning on each other. So when we talk about, gosh, we hope mentor teachers pick this book up and work with a new teacher. Because we want to build those collegial bonds as well. Because that veteran on your staff, curmudgeonly some days. probably has a ton of knowledge about some basic foundational pieces that if you tap them, you might be able to get through next week in a much better fashion than you did this week. Alex Kajitani: Would say that is actually if it all came down to one thing that this my single favorite the one My biggest and sort of [00:27:00] one single piece of advice that we give in the book to new teachers is to surround yourself With good people just like tom was talking about when we surround ourselves with good people it really we just have we have no choice, but to then become a good person right And sort of when we surround ourselves with teachers who are operating at a high level, we have no choice but to operate at a high level and be part of that conversation. And so things like that, things like really paying attention to who we're hanging out with, who we're going to for advice who we go to when we're struggling, I think is really the make or break piece of advice for new teachers. Ross Romano: Yeah, that's a great. Element of it, which is right. Well, as you described some of the things that are those challenges that they don't align to assumptions is all the things that are out of your control. And a lot of that is interpersonal dynamics. It's there's a lot of other people here. And no matter what I do, I can't make. Anybody else do [00:28:00] anything I can influence. I can inspire. I can motivate. I can seek out help. I can seek out colleagues. I can try to support my students in these ways and create an engaging environment. I can really put my best effort into developing relationships with students with their parents, et cetera. I can't make those people. Want a relationship with me, but I think it's worth stopping on that point to say that that's 1 of the pieces of 1 I think getting that understanding coming into it of who are the different people that I need to build relationships with. What are what's the purpose of those different relationships? And how do I do what's in my control to focus on that work on building that? How do I maybe let go of things that I can't control and focus on doing the best I can because there's every year it's different students, different parents. It turns over again. And again some years, everybody's good. Some [00:29:00] years. It's not so good. Just talk about some of the different relationships that teachers. Need to build that benefits the teacher, right? That also is part of the job and what they need to and how to go about that and put their own effort into it. And. Try to be successful in that Tom Hierck: And I don't want to steal your thunder Alex, because you got one real key one that I don't think a lot of people think about. So that's why I was pausing there. Alex Kajitani: yeah, well, I I think so to start with the students really on any given moment of any given day, right. The students are really dealing with poor relationships and in the classroom, right. They're [00:30:00] dealing with their relationship with themselves. They're dealing with their relationship with their friends and other students really hard to learn how to. Add fractions with unlike denominators. When you just got in a fight with your friend, there's their relationship with the content. You know, I've been a career math teacher. Some kids walk in loving math. Some kids walk out not loving math or and, And then, of course, there's the relationship with the adults in the building and on campus and so for those adults on campus, the relationships are similar right we've, as a teacher I've got my relationship with my students I've got my relationship with my colleagues but then often overlooked is the teachers relationship with the content. I was just in South Carolina working with elementary school teachers on how to effectively teach math. Elementary teachers have a much different relationship with mathematics than the middle school teachers, some of whom have degrees and advanced degrees in math, right? And so that's one that's [00:31:00] often overlooked as far as other people one of the things that is really beneficial is building that relationship with the schools. Custodian at some point something's going to break at some point. You're going to need some new chairs at some point Something's going to happen in that room and really being able to you know, have a relationship with that custodian is I think absolutely critical and then it's really just a matter I think of really looking at you know Who are my students interacting with and they're interacting with say the lunch people they're interacting with some of the noon supervisors Things like that and that's something that we often overlook as teachers because we're so busy but they are people who have deep insight into Our students and how they behave and how they interact and act they see them you know out on the lunch at the lunch tables or before and after school and things like that, but we in the book always recommend, you know got to build that relationship with the school custodian that one [00:32:00] is absolutely mission critical Tom Hierck: You know, and it gets back to again, we know this, we got kids coming to school and you know what? The adults, the educators, the team at the school are sometimes the best adults that they get to be around, right? And so it's not something that needs to be taken lightly. And I know, we're human sometimes a kid comes to school and pushes every button you have and discovers a new one you didn't even know existed. It's hard not to take that personally. But what we encourage is you got to take that professionally, right? Take a step back. Why am I seeing this? We've got kids who have experienced things that would buckle us to our knees as adults. And so you don't need to go it alone. You do need to build those collegial connections. You ought to be fascinated by the colleague that's having success with the kids you're struggling with. Not be jealous of, not try to undermine, not try to minimize what that teacher is doing because We've got this time to really [00:33:00] affect our job is about creating good adults. Not about creating good grade 3 kids or good grade 7 kids or good grade 10 kids. Right? We're trying to create good adults who can make valuable, viable contributions. The team becomes essential. Right? Teams will always overcome challenges that loose affiliations of individual talent never can. Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, and I was thinking about that it's important to both be effective at instruction and classroom management and also to feel effective at those things. And vice versa, it's important to feel effective and also be effective, right? It's like both need to be present and they need to kind of be in alignment with one another, right? It doesn't do us good to think we're really good if we're not. But thinking that those relationships with colleagues with. You know, administration, et cetera having open communication and getting mentorship and dialogue and feedback and support are [00:34:00] key to, especially when you're in those early years and you're building up your. Efficacy and sense of efficacy that relying on colleagues and being able to talk through things and get reinforcement is would be so important to both of those pieces to make sure that as a teacher is getting better at the job. They're also feeling that they're getting better. They're improving. And those things are moving in the right direction, Alex Kajitani: Well, I think it's a great misperception that or misconception that confidence comes before competence. Right? We spend a lot of time so we could, we're, we could always could possibly spend time building people up and telling them they're so awesome. And they're so great. And We know you can do this when actually, if we give them the actual skills to manage their classroom effectively, to know the difference between formative and summative assessment to really be able to plan and deliver engaging lessons, right? Then the teachers, especially new teachers, but really all teachers, [00:35:00] they build that competence. That's what leads to the confidence and you feeling good about yourself. I mean, you, somebody can tell you how awesome you are. All day long, but if you know that lesson didn't go well, you're walking out of there kind of bummed, right? But nothing is better than when you know that a lesson went really well And that's going to give you the confidence walking out to that parking lot back to your car Because you've now built the competence and so that's also something we need to be a little careful of I think especially with new teachers Because we're so scared that they're not going to want to come back and we're some sometimes, you know we need them so badly and so We spend a lot of time building them up and telling them how awesome they are. Just like we do with students sometimes when really most of our, more of our energy needs to go into helping them and getting them the skills to build that competence. And that's, what's going to get them confidently back as a year, two as a year three teacher. And I hope, hope, hope that that's what we've done with this book is just, they can open it up to any page and learn a [00:36:00] really cool way to start a lesson, a really cool way to. You know, be able to tell what students have learned a really easy to implement way to build procedures and routines in your classroom or how to design the wall, even what to hang on the walls. And so it's just once we get them competent, then I think we've the confidence issue almost takes care of itself. Ross Romano: what is so we've talked about the fact that a lot of veteran teachers. Respond to the book and want to keep their copy. Is there anything that stands out as like the most important things that veteran teachers should come to this book for and be thinking about reflecting on? I Tom Hierck: Yeah I think again, that notion of relationship building we've tried to give some strategies there. I think sometimes it's easy to drift into, well, you know what, I'm the adult, right? Every kid's got to want to have a relationship with me. You know, Alex talks about when he was a student, man, his teachers were there. Okay, well we've seen a shift in that, right? So what are you doing to authentically [00:37:00] build that? One of the activities we have in the book is called the DNA activity, right? Learning every kid's DNA, their dreams, their needs, and their abilities. Look, every kid has dreams. Our jobs in education are not to be the dream crushers, right? How do we help kids? Now, be authentic! Right? But I saw the commercial the other day where they had Muggsy Bogues meet Victor Wimbayana. And you got a 5'3 guy and a 7'6 guy, right? Well, guess what? Muggsy Bogues decided he wanted to be a basketball player. Now, at 5'3, can you imagine him going to his high school coach? Right? I'm saying I want to be a pro. Alright, our job's not to Needs are often times driven by stuff outside of us, but knowing a kid's needs, hey, you know what, sometimes I just need peace and quiet. Alright, maybe not every activity has to be group work. Their abilities, as unique as the kids themselves. We have to be willing to accept that we have kids in schools today that can do things that far exceed any of us adults. Right the technological [00:38:00] literacies alone, but other stuff, right? So do we take the time to learn every kid's DNA to shape our instruction then given that? I don't need teachers to become entertainers. I don't need to become TikTok teachers, but I need them to be willing to invest in authentic. And so even for our veteran teachers to go back and say, wow, so what am I doing? To build some things that are positive connections that let kids know that I know about them in a deeper way to me is one of the things we've seen and heard from our veteran colleagues. Ross Romano: I mean, my future should be tick tock teachers. What about administrators? I mean, the book is for teachers, but what is something that administrators principles should read here and really think about what they're doing about it going back to those. You know, conversations over the recent years about what are the factors that drive teachers from the profession, or at least from the school that they're in number 1 leadership, the leadership of my [00:39:00] school was poor. I had to get out of there and the number two relates them. We were just talking about, which was basically if I have lost confidence in my ability to be effective, maybe that's because I just don't think I'm good at the job. Or maybe that is because of the lack of resources, the challenges, everything that's happening in my school. It's not going to allow me to feel like I'm actually making a difference for my students. That's why I'm here. If I can't make a difference, why am I doing it? Right? But that's affected by leadership, right? Because leadership creates a lot of those conditions. So yeah what are the things even though they're not the core audience of the book they certainly influence the outcomes? Alex Kajitani: Yeah, well, I think it goes without saying that people don't quit jobs, right? They quit bosses. I mean, all of us have at some point probably left a job and chances are they didn't like the boss very much. And so I think that's something that's often sort of not talked about in all industries, but especially in the [00:40:00] teaching profession as well. And I mean, when it comes to really the success of a single class, right? Nothing is more important than that teacher in the classroom, but When it comes to the success of an entire school, I think nothing is more important than the relationship of the adults in the building. And so as a principal as a district level administrator, as somebody who is leading teachers, I think it's really an essential and critical part of the job to make sure that those people. Get along that those people interact and work effectively as well as collaboratively. And so I think one of the things that principals can really do is work on building those relationships with the teachers. I mean, we can say as you know, About we could talk about all the things that are so important to us and what we want in a job. But the truth is, as teachers like we want to know that our principles like us, we want to know that our principles think that we're doing a good job, and we want to hear it from time to time. And so a [00:41:00] principal can think we're doing a good job. But if they don't tell us as teachers, if we don't know that we're doing a new, a good job, then the job itself becomes really tough. And I think that's especially critical of new teachers. New teachers feel it deeply when they feel like their principal or their boss doesn't like them or doesn't think they're doing a good job. And they explode with confidence when they think that they are Tom. I know you've been a principal. What Well, Tom Hierck: and I just appreciate the the advert that Ross has done done for us here, because we do happen to have a book called, You're a Principal Now, What's Next? And that's going to be hot off the presses soon. So, yeah I think again, those reminders, right, of what you need to do. When we talk about building relationships we often have to sit down and talk with leadership and say, You never stop becoming a teacher, right? You just got bigger kids in your class at your next faculty meeting, that's your classroom. And the same needs that we see in a typical classroom, we, and I don't mean [00:42:00] that in a diminishing sense, but we also need to make sure that we are modeling what does it mean. You know, you want your teachers to get along with every kid and build positive relationships, even with the most challenging youth. Well, sometimes, adults have challenging behaviors as well. We may be more sophisticated in how we represent those behaviors, but oftentimes it's the same root cause. So, what are you doing? If you talk to a first year teacher, you know what you're going to get, right? They're going to give you the biggest smile, and they're going to say, everything is awesome! Now you need to be willing to come back and say, right, as a first year teacher, more than anything else, I wanted to be a second year teacher. So I wasn't going to rock the boat. Well, as a leader, you need to be able to pick through some of that and say, okay, what is really going on? Do we have regular meetings with our new folks? Or do we buy the notion that everything is awesome? Ross Romano: Yeah, it strikes me that at least based on my observations and and what my ears have [00:43:00] picked up on over the years that saying they say about the teacher student relationship, they don't care what you know until they've They know that you care, right? Certainly applies to the teacher principal relationship. And the teacher still might not care what you know, even after you've established that you care. But it's really important that you show that you care, that you're invested in their success, that you're supporting them. And then that can lead to Better dynamics around feedback and growth and development and all of that. But certainly for those that are in the trenches, like, they're. You know, they have a lot going on, right? They're not super interested in all the other things until they understand that there is some attunement to here's what's going on. Here's what you're going through. Here's I'm making myself available to support that, right? And try to help you in the ways that are effective for you. But, you know one can imagine that certainly for those teachers that are in the most chaotic part of that Just trying to [00:44:00] wrap their heads around. What is this job? How much of a difference that makes just those words like you said of saying Pointing out the things that are going well pointing out the effort pointing out just the resilience that it takes to keep showing up you know, in difficult circumstances. Alex Kajitani: yeah, for sure. Ross Romano: Awesome. Well, Tom just I think previewed one of these things, but I know there's a lot of other things you, you both have going on together and independently as well, and would love to give you a chance to talk about some of those before we close here. Alex, what are some of the things you are working on? Alex Kajitani: Yeah. Just you know, like I said, I, Tom and I both busy speaking across the country or Tom's case across the world, but love both of I absolutely love working with teachers, running professional developments, everything from Back to school convocations and inspirational keynotes and things like that are really digging deep. I've been doing a lot with connecting math and literacy and how we get students reading, writing, and speaking [00:45:00] in math class. And one of the things I'm also particularly excited about is along with this book Tom and I now have a book study that has been that's available. Tom, do you want to talk about the book study real quick before your own Tom Hierck: Yeah. So we've got a book study and you know, you can get in touch with either of us to get the link to that. It's being put on Skills Force has a platform where colleagues again can access the book study. They can use this in a mentor or mentee model approach looking at the various sections of the book. So we're excited about that. We're hoping again. That will augment what teachers are experiencing in their own districts. We'd love to see colleges pick it up and use it as part of the training there. As I alluded to earlier we've talked about you're a principal now. What's next? That's being crafted right now as we speak. And Alex and I are also crafting a book for veteran teachers, you mentioned veterans earlier and how the book tentatively is titled Finishing Strong, right? How do we maximize these brilliant educators who have [00:46:00] given their life's blood to the profession? And we want them to make sure that they are indeed finishing strong. So. You know, the best part of the work we do is the time with colleagues, right? This is year 41 for me as an educator. Every time I'm with a group of colleagues, man, there's so much learning that goes on and I appreciate the sharing and you know, the stuff that makes me a better educator. So that's what I have to look forward to as we continue on this journey. Ross Romano: Well, listeners, the book, you're a teacher. Now what's next is published by solution tree. You can find it there or wherever you get your books. We'll put the link below to make that easy for you. We'll also put the links to the websites. the social media, all the various places where you can find Alex and Tom and learn about their other books, learn about other things they're working on, anything that you've heard about here today that you want to follow up on, and they'll have to come back soon to talk about Europrincipal now, what's next, I'm sure that'll be relevant to a lot of you out there. So we certainly want to bring that to you as well. If you're [00:47:00] not already, the best way to make sure you catch that whenever it happens is subscribe to the authority. We have more interviews coming your way every week, talking about all the topics that matter to you and your job. You can also visit bpodcast.network to see about 40 plus other shows. If you like this show, there's certainly something there for you as well. So check that out. Alex and Tom, thanks again for being here. Alex Kajitani: what an honor and a pleasure. Thanks so much, everybody. Tom Hierck: Yeah. Thanks Russ. We really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you and your audience and wish everybody all the best.