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266 | Sustainable YM: Systems That Serve Discipleship | SMC Podcast · Student Ministry Conversations

• speaker-0: Hey and welcome back to the podcast. We are moving on into the week or into the week. Into the month of April. That's how my week has gone so far. And so with that, like, man, we are definitely going through the I like school is coming back. ⁓ most youth pastors are definitely feeling it. We have a hundred and fifty thousand different things to do. Some of us are involved in the school system, some of us are just trying to survive before school. Some of us have teachers as spouses. ⁓ All the mess. Just so you know, we we feel your pain. ⁓ David and I both have spouses that are teachers. We both have kids that are in school. We ⁓ I'm involved in the school district as a chaplain, as I've said many, many times before, and so literally we're recording this, and then I have to run off to the high school to be in all of these school conversations for getting back into the swing of things. Not to mention, we have our youth sixth grade welcomes tonight at my house. ⁓ which is a mess right now. So I have to throw in, you know, some ⁓ opportunity to clean my house at some point today. so I get it. I mean we we understand the fact of like man life is super super busy. ⁓ and in all reality, hopefully you spent part of your summer in rest and relaxation mode. But then the other half of it, hopefully you start if you've already started on the process of planning for this fall. ⁓ but Man, I we totally get the idea and the understanding that some of you might have not. And hopefully we can talk about some things that will help in that process for the next couple weeks. And so today our topic is the idea, well actually the month of August is going to be building a sustainable youth ministry. And first and foremost, Mark Iacanelli Building Sustainable or a Sustainable Youth Ministry is a must-have book. and it is an absolute gym when it comes to content about youth ministry. ⁓ and that book has been absolutely timeless. ⁓ and so I would definitely recommend you do Sustainable Youth Ministry ⁓ by I think it's Mark Iacanelli. It's either Mark Iacinelli or Mark DeVride. ⁓ I was wrong. Mark Iaccanelli does another book. ⁓ speaker-1: You said that and I was like, that doesn't sound right. The mark. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, Sustainable Youth Ministries, Mark DeVries. I'm sorry, Mark. but with that being said, like it is an absolute it's an absolute timeless book. ⁓ and it has been one that I continually go back to as far as looking in and seeing things and checking off and making sure that I'm still doing what I need to be doing. ⁓ and then how we're gonna start off the w ⁓ the month is with week one, we are talking about systems that serve discipleship. ⁓ and the the kind of the big idea behind this week is the idea that structure should support ministry. ⁓ it should not suffocate it. And I don't know about you, David, there have been times where I've built systems that I'm like, man, this is awesome. I absolutely love it. It helps so much. And then there are other times that I'm like white knuckling this system that is absolutely terrible and I will not let go of it even though it is causing me exhaustion. Yeah. speaker-1: And then and then I would say that in between you inherit systems that are doing that to you. And you can't change it because it's the tradition of the church and it takes a minor miracle to to that. I think that's where most of us are honestly where we're holding on to systems that we we maybe don't have the DNA or the speaker-0: That's like that's speaker-1: DNA's not the right word for that, but like we maybe we don't necessarily know how to sustain a system that you know predates us. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's a really, really good point. And I I think that's a huge aspect of it is you know, and that can almost be an entirely different episode on the like what do you do with the systems that are already in place when you walk into a ministry. I would say speaker-1: Definitely need to do an episode on that. speaker-0: Yeah, no, I I think that might work. And so with that, we all us fails like the the idea of systems, like systems are supposed to be there to help us. They're supposed to be there to make our job easier. They're supposed to be there to make our job better. ⁓ but man, sometimes it is an absolute chore to keep some of the systems going. So the thing is though is especially in the month of August, we have all kinds of different things going on. We have all kinds of different things happening. ⁓ And there's kind of this pressure to get organized. ⁓ We we kind of have an idea of how many students we have in our youth group. We have an idea of the growth. We have an idea of where we're going. Maybe not curriculum wise, but we have an idea in a direction of how our group is growing or how our group is shrinking Thinking ⁓ and so a lot of times August is that planning season. ⁓ and so calendars are filling up, programs are being mapped out, leaders are thinking, Man, how can we make this better than last year? ⁓ and I think that's the huge a aspect of ministry is that's what we ask is just this mindset of like, man, how can we make this better than it was? And often the answer that we default to, like we talked about, is this idea of, man, well, we need better systems. We need we need better things to put us more in focus to make these things happen. ⁓ and while that's all well and good, we are also kind of getting to the point to where we are hurting ourselves. and so we need the like I said, the an the default is we need better systems, but often the tension behind that is some systems create clarity and some systems create absolute exhaustion. Yeah. And so the question isn't do we need systems or we need better systems? The question is are our systems actually serving discipleship? Yeah. And so I I th I think especially like w ⁓ going into kind of your topic and maybe we just address it for this episode too, ⁓ is like you said, I a large majority of us are jumping into ministries or have been in ministries for a long time, ⁓ that already have these things in place that either you have to last long enough in the church to be able to change it, or you have to just bite the bullet and change it and take the flak for it. And so a lot of these a lot of these changes can cause a lot of strife and a lot of hurt in the church. ⁓ and most leaders don't start with bad intentions. Sometimes we just see the idea that systems can go wrong. ⁓ but over time we can also see that systems are overcomplicated, they're rigid. They're focused on efficiency over people. And ⁓ the idea behind it is sometimes we get so organized that we accidentally make it harder to connect with students. And so that's the danger when systems become the focus, people become secondary. And I think a lot of time when we adopt these new or we adopt these ⁓ systems that are already in place, sometimes we get so hyper focused on the fact that we have to keep this system alive that we become more focused on that than the students that we're actually serving with. And so I would say good rule of thumb is Outside of the absolute core critical systems that you ha need to be using, which I don't know about you, David, off the top of my head, I can think of two. And I don't know if I'd consider both of them actual systems. But when you're jumping into a youth ministry, I think there's two things that you're required to do. ⁓ that is first and foremost, like Track mech track metrics. Ke take attendance. And it's not for to see like how big your Wednesday night is or how big your Sunday night is. It's so you can develop and begin strategizing ways to have kids and keep cats. For sure. You pay attention when kids miss. You you have an idea of who's coming, who's not, you have an idea of who needs to be ⁓ reached out to. Like that is hands down, I think, the most important. but that is one that can go from really really simple to super overcomplicated if you allow it really fast. The second one I would say and I don't know if this one classifies as a system, but the other one is a parent email or parent communication of some kind. And so outside of those two, I can't think of anything that's absolutely like you must have this. Can you speaker-1: I mean, no, not necessarily. I think outside of I if I were to add a third, ⁓ and it's not a must-have, but I I think it makes a huge difference, is some kind of celebratory ⁓ system. ⁓ where you that's where you I mean, at the end of the day, students especially are focused on what can I get out of this? And at the end of the day, like we want them to understand that the the win is growing in your relationship with with Jesus. Like we've talked about speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. speaker-1: A lot on the podcast, we win when someone takes a step. ⁓ we've certainly adopted that. Brent has adopted that. and so having some kind of c ⁓ celebratory metric, and and Brent and I both have kind of a a a ping pong ball wall thing, ⁓ where people can physically see ⁓ what we're doing, whether that's ⁓ somebody coming to church, someone being invited to church, someone getting baptized or accepting Jesus for the first time, and then having like milestones where you you see the impact that your church is making, that your youth group is making, and then celebrate those. There's a lot of other ways to celebrate too, but I think having some kind of way of saying, Man, even if it's just as simple as we had a really, really good small group this week or, you know, Wednesday night just went really, really well and ⁓ I just, you know, whatever. Let's go get ice cream. Let's you know, whatever. ⁓ little things like that can make a huge difference because the students see that you see them and they also see that you see them when they're trying, when they're putting an effort in. Yeah. ⁓ because some students really do put a huge effort into youth ministry and that should be celebrated too. speaker-0: Well and then also the other aspect of that and maybe maybe I I I put an addendum on one of mine is parent and volunteer communication. ⁓ and so I I think part of that celebratory service and that celebratory fact is like you have to you the leaders need to know what they're doing, they need to know how they celebrate wins, ⁓ and you have to articulate that. So though I think those three are really the core ideas ⁓ behind what makes a youth ministry float. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: There are th tons of other systems that you can throw in. ⁓ however, those three I think are the ones that are like the bare necessities. ⁓ and so like when you move into these systems that are kinda going out, maybe you start with these three and you say, First off, do I have it? Like, because I've seen a ton of youth ministries that don't have any parent communication whatsoever. They just talk to the students, and it's like that's great, but who outside of high school, kids that can drive, takes their kids to youth? If you are not communicating with the parents, then you are missing out on an opportunity for kids to be there. But then also the second half of it is it's your job as a youth pastor to equip the parents, not the students. I say that with a tongue-in-cheek kind of preface because we have to understand our place. And at the end of the day, the parents will be the ultimate disciplers of their kids. And so our job should be I mean, I I'm man, David, I I think at least fifty fifty. We should be equipping and communicating with parents. That should be half of our job. So like when we see parents at church, we stop and talk to them. When we see opportunities to communicate wins, we send that out to parents. When we see opportunities to provide equipping things like resources and stuff like that, we do it. Like we have to have the idea that it is not just youth ministry, it's youth and parent ministry. Because we have to step in alongside students, parents that are trying to, you know, parent kids. And as you and me are well aware, David, parenting is hard. There's really not a one size fits all book for this. ⁓ And so like every single parent's going through it, because all kids are different. And so we need to come alongside parents that are trying to do discipleship and lead well at home. And we need to be celebrating their wins and giving them resources and giving them opportunities to thrive. And then this kind of also steps into the mindset of that multi-generational discipleship as we are actually equipping and encouraging the parents just as much as we are the students. And so I think that's a huge aspect of it. ⁓ but sometimes, like I said, we can get so focused on the system that we begin to lose track of the parents, we begin to lose track of the kids, ⁓ just because we want the systems to work, or I don't know about you, how many times has something gone wrong, like technology didn't work, or ⁓ you can't find your sermon, or a kid was supposed to teach and they didn't prepare in time, or ⁓ kids forget to bring their worship instruments or something to that nature and you become so one sided that that's the only issue that you have and that's the only issue that you need to address and fix that you lose track of everything else going on in your ministry. I know I do that a lot. ⁓ and it's something I'm trying to work on. But sometimes like we we get so focused and so so much into kind of like a fix-it mode that like we sometimes just absolutely miss out on the kids that are there. And so that's the danger. When systems become the focus, people become secondary and discipleship suffers. And so I mean what did healthy systems do? Like I said, those three core ones hopefully don't control your ministry. They support it. You are supporting students by tracking their attendance. So you can tell which ones are here and which ones aren't, which ones might need you to reach out to them and say, Hey, like, man, we we see you not being here. Like we want we want to like acknowledge the fact that like you are missed. ⁓ and like that's huge for students, especially in the realm of like nobody cares about me. who am I, like where do I belong? Like that sense of belonging comes from that too. And so that is a huge one. Secondly, if you're communicating with parents, you're showing them that they are a valuable part of this process. And some parents, and this this is wild to me still, but I've been in youth ministry long enough that it it's wild. ⁓ some parents still feel like it's the church's job to disciple their kids. speaker-1: I would say the majority. speaker-0: I I do see a shift, I will say. ⁓ and it and it might just be my church. Sure. ⁓ I have a lot of I have a lot of parents that actually come in and actually recommend things to me. And it's not it's not like the toxic negative it's like, hey, we found this curriculum when we were doing our Bible study at home. This would be really, really cool. Or hey, like have you watched this series on right now media? I think this would be great for the high school or stuff like that. I do have a little bit of stuff like that. Like yeah. I have a lot of I have a lot of parents that and I I guess More a maybe a better way to say it. I have a lot of parents that are discipling at home. and they see the value of bringing discipleship and bringing Jesus into their homes more than just leaving Jesus at church. And so with that, like I have I have families in my group right now that do weekly Bible studies. I have families right now that do worship at home. Which is super cool. Like they have music well either their parents are musical or they have musical kids and they do worship in their house. ⁓ we have parents that study the Bible with their kids. We have parents that take their kids to conferences and go take ⁓ to all which by the way, ⁓ just also side note of like if you have parents that are willing to take their kids to Christian music Concerts and stuff like that, that's still a form of discipleship because you are teaching your kid that what they want to go do is worth the parents' time. ⁓ which is huge. So, like all the parents that are like taking kids and spending money to go to like see Forrest Frank and stuff like that. It's like that's awesome. Cause the kids absolutely are being fueled by that for the fact that like their parents see that as something worthy of attending. ⁓ like The fur I'll never forget the first concert that my dad took me to that was a Christian music concert. It was audio adrenaline, which dates me a little bit, but it's fine. ⁓ but like audio adrenaline came and my dad was like, Hey, let's go. And I was like, Man, that's awesome. I love audio adrenaline. ⁓ and like me and my dad got to go do this and like it was a super cool moment, but it was also this moment of like, man, I don't have to meet my dad's interests. My dad found an interest of mine. Which was cool. ⁓ and so like we have to work towards those things too. And so healthy systems are huge. You have your parents, you have your tracking or your metrics, your attendance, ⁓ that does the follow up and the the ⁓ like who's being noticed, who's being seen, who's being left out. ⁓ and then the just the dynamics of like all all of ⁓ ⁓ David, I just had a brain for it. Which one did you say? 'Cause I said parent and I said metrics. What'd you say? Celebrating, sorry. It is a really, really ⁓ my my brain is not awake yet. ⁓ and so with that, like celebrations too, like ⁓ And I I think more importantly than anything else of like, you know, the the actual physical act of celebration is cool. But it's more of the articulation and clarifying what is a win. Cause I I think a lot of times we walk into church and we have the Almost I don't even know if I can call it this. We have the bad sermon mentality of like if people don't respond by like this miraculous saving grace and they come to Jesus or we like have a person that spontaneously wants to get baptized at the end of the service and we do it right then, we feel like failures. ⁓ and that's not the case. speaker-1: Right. And so often we don't know. You know, people can absolutely love it and then just never communicate it. You know, there are times and it's funny how how God works in those times when we're at the most discouraged that all of a sudden a student will say something or a parent will come in and say, Like, You've no idea how much my daughter loves you or my son loves you and is grateful. Yeah. You know, and you get that just a little bit of encouragement, or somebody'll put a sticky note on your on your desk and I have literally boxes full. of sticky I keep all of them. I'm sentimental like that. But ⁓ I just speaker-0: It's it's not a sentimental thing. If you are listening to this, keep those no speaker-1: Because there will come a time, and I if you've been in youth ministry for any amount of time, I don't even care if you're in your first year, there are times where you feel very, very discouraged. And sometimes you need to open up those boxes and go, I am making a difference. Not for your own ego, but to to remind you, you know, the Bible's chocked full of Ebenezer moments where he said, Write this down, create this altar, you know, ⁓ you know, and remind remind yourself what you have been through. Look back and see what God has done and the faithfulness. And so I think you absolutely have to have those things. And maybe, maybe that's a personal system for us. You know, we have systems and metrics in place for youth ministry, but we we also have to take care of our own spiritual health. We can't expect anybody else to do it. And so maybe you know, a system for me is in those moments when I'm discouraged, I do two things. I pull out the box of encouragement. Now, some of them just live on my desk. But ⁓ I'll pull that out and then the other thing I do exactly. I've got mine are actually right there. I don't know if you can see ⁓ no, they're on the other side of that. Actually, no. Yeah. That one. I can't point right. ⁓ there we go. That one, I can't point. Anyway, it's over that pop there. ⁓ that's from Nick, the former youth pastor here, is a good buddy of mine. And then beside that I have a whole box of thank you notes. One of them was from Brent from The summer and ⁓ means a lot to me. He said, I love you twice in a note. I don't think we've ever anyway. It was a beautiful thing, and it's reminders like that that help you keep going and to understand that like you matter and you're making an impact. And so often we think that we're not, and ⁓ and then the other side of that is accountability, you know, having that person who can not only reminds you of who you are and and your calling and all of that, but also aren't afraid to tell you that maybe you're feeling this way because you're doing a couple of things wrong. You also need that person who's not just gonna tickle your ear, so to speak. speaker-0: So let's let's tangent there for a second because I feel like that's awesome. We talked about the idea of like, you know, ministry systems, but you as a youth pastor need systems too. And I would say once again, the the thankful or the celebratory where you have those notes that people write, ⁓ those are absolutely ⁓ be I mean they're Beyond value. Like it it just like the moments that they come into play are super super huge. ⁓ secondly, if you ever and this one was hard for me for a long time. ⁓ because when I receive verbal confident ⁓ compliments, and David knows this all too well, because he gives them all the time because he's that kind of guy. ⁓ when I receive verbal confidence compliments speaker-1: He can't say compliments because he doesn't like speaker-0: I know. ⁓ when I when I receive verbal compliments, there we go. one of the things that I always do is I immediately try and shift it off to other people. And I'm like, ⁓ well, you know, I mean I I I was here but I played a small part. Like it's really this person, this person, this person, this person. ⁓ and I had a lady stop me in my church ⁓ like when I started as the worship pastor, probably six months in, she was like, You're doing a fantastic job at leading worship. She was like, Thank you so much for being willing. Thank you so much for the effort and the intention that you've put into it. I've really, really loved worship since you started. And I said, Well, ⁓ you know, I'm I'm surrounded by such a good team. Like we have we have 20 plus people on our worship team that rotate. Like there's so many people. I was like, and I love the fact that like I am the least talented person on the worship thing. And she goes, Stop it. And she literally told me, she goes, stop it. speaker-1: Yes, sir. speaker-0: I'm complimenting you. Take it. Mm-hmm. And I was like, Yes, ma'am. And so but it it kinda shifted my understanding of like I I don't know, and I'm I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way, 'cause I I I've had conversations with David especially on this, is the idea of like when I when I receive compliments, especially when it's me leading a team, I feel guilty that I receive the compliments. and so with that, like but you gotta understand that like first off speaker-1: Same. speaker-0: Maybe that's God's way of encouraging you to keep on keeping on. So if you are shutting down other people that are being inspired by God to tell you that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, man, you are you are literally self destructing yourself. speaker-1: Absolutely. And but the other side of it too is like it sometimes takes a lot of courage for certain people to go out and compliment somebody. Like, let's be completely honest. When you think think about it this way, and and I don't I don't want to put ourselves higher than we deserve to be, but think about it this way. There are people who see us in in our position and they think very highly of us for whatever reason. ⁓ whether we agree with it or not, doesn't matter. They put us in Just like when we were students, there were youth pastors, there were bands, there were athletes, there are people that we look up to and we go, wow, those people are so cool. And I'll be completely honest with you, I I say this a lot, but like I think of people like Jimmy Needham. For me to go up to someone like Jimmy Needham and tell them all the things that he means to me would terrify me. And now we're we're not to that kind of stature, but at the same time for s for a little kid or you know, sometimes for a parent, yeah, they may be like second guessing themselves, like, I don't know. ⁓ if I should or you know, I don't wanna I here's the truth. I know they're busy, they probably don't have time to talk to me. And that's probably the realest statement that any of us. speaker-0: Celebrity mentality. speaker-1: Like they just think, ⁓ we're too busy. And so if they take the time out of their day to say something, just say thank you, you're going to rob them of the blessing of being because who knows? God could absolutely be like screaming at them to say it because we need it. Then the other side of it. This is somewhat tangent, but I I have realized this more and more in my life. The more I get complimented, if I get more than two compliments in a week, I start preparing my heart. And this might sound crazy, but I have noticed when anything good happens Satan immediately starts and it just seems like and it's not all I mean sometimes it's just the world being chaotic, but I think sometimes we give Satan too much credit. But I have noticed in times where there's a lot yeah, I know I could whole episode on that. I am so tired of people saying everything is spiritual warfare. Some of it is just life sucking. speaker-0: Satan made my McDonald's order late. speaker-1: Orth are human too. I mean it just blows my mind. Anyway, there's somebody in a circle who's like, Clan delete. We're done with this podcast. ⁓ but ⁓ the red okay. made me think of ⁓ that video, ⁓ what is it, Olen or Orlin? speaker-0: I am triggered. speaker-1: Does the Starbucks Red Cup rant? ⁓ and he was like, ⁓ the cups are red. I don't know if that's we're dating ourselves again here. ⁓ but anyway, all that to say, what was I saying? speaker-0: You're robbing them of speaker-1: Robbing them the opportunity to be a blessing and and that's that's such an important key part of it. There are times though, ⁓ obviously when you are being blessed in that way that yeah, you know, Proverbs 423, above all else, guard your heart. There may be some pretty tough days coming and God may be, you know, fill in your cup before you go through a really tough week or season or whatever. And so I do always try to remind myself in those moments, hold on to those because again the celebration. I may have a really tough week ahead. I may have a tough road ahead. ⁓ And I might need to really cling on to this. And so when you get that, be in the moment. Don't, don't just push it away. Say thank you so much. And then write it down. You know, if somebody comes up to you verbally, like like what Brent did, write it down in a journal. Hey, today, you know, so and so said this really nice thing, and it meant a lot to me. And write down what you're feeling. You might need it next week. Who knows? speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. I yeah, it's it's a it's a really, really important thing to have. And then also you you never know, like David said, when you need it. Yeah. and man, some of them will catch you so far in right field, ⁓ that you're like, I didn't even think you paid attention, let alone like Yeah. speaker-1: Or I thought you didn't like me at all. speaker-0: I get that old. I had a well I and the thing is is there's always one that goes back and that kinda comes back to me. One of my first youth students ⁓ in my my first youth stint was two and a half years in a small town of like twelve hundred people. and I literally had a student well she was in junior high, early high school when I left. I had a student write me a letter with a college graduation announcement saying how much I did in her life and like she wouldn't be who she was without me and all this stuff. And I was like, girl, you were in junior high. Like maybe early early high school when I had you and you write me a letter at the end of college and talk about my impact in your life? I mean w the I mean speaker-1: Yeah. By that point you think long forgotten. speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. And so it's just one of those things you never know. You never know the impact you have. You never know the opportunity. So especially when people stand up or speak out to have that ⁓ and show that you're valued, don't downplay it. ⁓ that is that is one of your personal systems that you need. ⁓ keep your celebrations. ⁓ and I'm not gonna say hold on to your critiques, but be mindful of them. ⁓ I think there are people that will come into your life that will give you solid, solid advice. Like David said, you have those people that aren't afraid to speak their mind and tell you that you're wrong or tell you that you did something stupid. Don't hold on to their critiques in a way that makes you feel like a failure, but be mindful of the critiques in a way that dis disciplines you to be a better youth master. Yeah, fuel not speaker-1: Use it as fuel. speaker-0: Fuel for yeah. Fuel for growth, not fuel for destruction. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So but that's a that's a huge one. Yeah, for sure. Secondly, as far as systems for you as a personal youth pastor, if you do not have a network of youth ministers that you talk to, you have to. You cannot do youth ministry alone. Nobody else in your church knows what you do to the full extent of what you do. You might have a pastor that 30 years ago they were a youth pastor and they feel like it's the same thing. It's not. And so you need to have youth ministry people that are in your corner that you can talk to about ministry. And sometimes it's locals. Sometimes you just find people that you are very, very okay to be open with. And typically you kind of flock around youth ministers. So I bet you probably have a friend that's in youth ministry, even if it's a friend you met at a conference. David is that guy, like, and with that being said, there's a couple others, but like have those people. That you're not afraid to let them speak. into you but also have those people that you know aren't afraid to let you speak to them and just vent. Yeah. super super important because those are the people that keep you from doing stupid things. ⁓ and so celebrations like so recognizing and celebrating success and being mindful of corrections, but then also networking, having people to communicate and talk to and build relationships with. ⁓ And then finally If I had to have a third one, I think the final and absolute system which David Pruitt is working on and still needs to get better at, ⁓ not not shouting you out. ⁓ speaker-1: I'm about to get I'm on the hot seat. ⁓ speaker-0: But it's everybody, man. It's there's so many people. ⁓ and it's not just David, but like I this is one of the things that I get on to David all the time for because we have that relationship. ⁓ but that I'm talking to you listening right now too. If you do not have a Sabbath, start it. speaker-1: See that X-ray thing he just did? Yeah, I get that a lot, y'all. Welcome to my world. speaker-0: So so with that being said, if you do not provide yourself opportunity to rest from and let me be specific, rest from ministra, then you are going to burn yourself out. And I probably will say within two to three years. And that's on the long end and all speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, it happens well. speaker-0: That's if you feel like you're doing great and you feel like nothing can slow you down. If you are not resting, then you have about two to three years before even the best youth ministry fails. speaker-1: Absolutely. speaker-0: So rest, celebrations, and networking. Those are your three personal systems that you cannot do ministry without. Or well you can do ministry without them, but you cannot do successful youth ministry that is has longevity without those three. speaker-1: So in wrapping up, because we've had a really good conversation. We skipped like I would say the majority of our notes, which is great. ⁓ I do wanna I wanna hit on I know this is crazy. I was looking for the on ramp and you took off. Like this is clearly your like Brent keeps us on track and I've been looking for that. ⁓ it's cool. This speaker-0: I was gonna come back to No, but I mean it was it was I think that I think that I think today was and I mean ⁓ I'll be honest for the people that are listening to this, a lot of times we go note by note, we go exactly on script. and today I I feel like it's Holy Spirit driven because there's somebody listening to this podcast that is like, Man, I I just like I can't seem to make ministry work and then I just said those three things and you're like, Well, I don't have that one. Yeah, I don't do that one. And I don't have that one. That's where you need to start. Yeah. You need to build the systems for yourself first. And there are people listening to this episode that need that right now. speaker-1: Absolutely. Especially on the personal side. I don't think there's enough of us talking about that. There's a million resources on sus you know, sustainable youth ministry, good practices, ⁓ seven practices of a highly effective ministry. There are so many books and resources, but how much do we talk about us personally making sure that we also have systems in place that help? So to wrap it all up, ⁓ remember to have good communication rhythms. that's with leader, parents, and students. I know I landed the planet. I'm so proud of myself today. ⁓ we literally swapped roles. That's great. have a good volunteer structure. We didn't go into that as much, but we have talked about it a ton on the podcast. There's lots of episodes. Maybe we'll put it in the show notes if you remember. just remembering ⁓ with the volunteer structure comes roles and expectations. ⁓ make sure that's clearly defined. ⁓ and then something we didn't talk about but I think is really important is having follow-up systems. ⁓ Brent kinda talked about it. speaker-0: We I think we kinda did with the metrics, and that's one of the reasons I brought that up is the mindset of like we know who's missing. speaker-1: But we actually have to follow up with that. I think so many times we see, ⁓ this person isn't isn't showing up and then we immediately answer the question by saying, Well, it is in the middle of baseball season and ag season and all these things that are going on in theater and they're doing lots of extra practices and stuff like that. And so we go, ⁓ okay. Well, they're busy. But did you text and say, Hey, how how are you how are you handling all of that? Are you doing okay with that? Do you you know, do I need like I've you even asked a question too, like, hey, do you need a Coke? Can I bring you a Coke? You know, something like that, like whatever it might be. Can I bring you a cup of coffee? Whatever, and and and just that little thing that helps them understand that you're still thinking about them, that you care, and that their absence is missed. You know, it sounds really simple, but those are the kind of things that they're gonna hold on to more than A sermon, and so making sure that we're actually following through ⁓ with things ⁓ is so so key, and then just you know, looking at our weekly flow, like what what is working consistently, what's not working consistently. ⁓ I I use a metric system called target three, which is a really positive way of looking at things, like ⁓ what are three things that went well? What are three things that didn't go so well? We don't say went badly because we can really get into a negative, like I'll tell you with target three. three the second one is always the one that gets the most attention when it should be number one. ⁓ so what went well or three things that went well. Sometimes it's only one and that's okay. What are three things that Could be improved. And then the third one, what are we gonna do about it? What are our our action plan to keep the good things rolling well and the things that need to be tweaked or improved to slightly go into that? Obviously, if something like detrimentally bad went went down, put your time and effort in fixing that. But with target three, it gives you an opportunity to say, Hey, these are some things that went well, these are some things that need need some tweaking, and here's what we're gonna do about it. ⁓ and it keeps it's a really good system personally and with your ministry. I target three myself all. the time. You know, ⁓ we just finished summer camp and so I targeted three. What are what are some things that I led well? What are some things that I didn't lead so well? What were some times where I kind of, you know, had those low moments and what did I do about it? Did I fix it in that in that put that time or did I did I internalize it and you know was I resting enough? That's one of my my personal target three things that I'm always working on. Did I rest enough this week? Did I take a Sabbath and if I didn't when when am I gonna take one? You know, stuff like that. It's it's it's things like that that really help us stay consistent ⁓ personally and in our ministry. and as we've said before, if a system doesn't support discipleship, it doesn't need to exist. Period. ⁓ there are core things that are very, very important. If it doesn't line up with your church mission statement or your personal mission statement, like your youth mission statement if you have one. then it's probably not pointing people to Jesus like we think. ⁓ and so it certainly might need to be tweaked for that. So if there's any I guess to close close this particular episode, ⁓ just remember this guys. You don't need more complexity this year. ⁓ you need clarity. It can be hard. There's so many and I know there's a lot of external pressures that we put on ourselves and pressures from leadership and our church and our parents and sometimes even our students. But strong ministries aren't built on perfect systems. They're built on systems that make space for people. It always has to be people first. Put your people out front. It's gonna work, I promise. just keep keep doing the things that are pushing people towards discipleship. and let go of the rest. And even if that means you have to have that hard conversation, I can tell you from personal experience and Brent knows, sometimes it it sucks to have the hard conversations. And there were there was a time where I was paralyzed by some of the systems that ⁓ I was dealing with. And instead of having the hard confrontational conversations, I kept hoping it would get better. And guess what? It never did. Years and years and years of killing myself and burning myself out because I was too afraid to have the hard conversation that needed to happen. And I'm telling you, it it will it will kill your ministry if you don't let it go. Or if you don't deal with it, sorry, if you just let it go. So remember that they these systems really are ⁓ built to make space for people to disciple people. That's that's what we're here for. We're in the people business, not the structure business. So if I could leave you with anything, it's understand that your systems should make discipleship easier, not harder. speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Now man, I ⁓ I think that's I think that's where it is. I mean at the end of the day, like don't be afraid to cut something. If it doesn't support discipleship, don't do it. speaker-1: Closing words, Brent? speaker-0: ⁓ and like that is across the board, whether it's game ac game nights or activities that you do or anything else, fine tooth comb your ministry. ⁓ I always go back to something that Jerry Varner said on our podcast forever ago. He said, Show me your calendar and I'll show you your priority. Yeah. Cause he said, Not only is the calendar a like is it not only that does the counter the calendar show our ministry, but it also models what we see as priority. And so like it's just the mindset of like if if it doesn't benefit you, work to get rid of it. speaker-1: Actively, by the way. Actively work. And that might mean getting getting your friend Brent to look at your calendar and say, Hey, I don't think that's helping you. Or at least, you know, being willing to say, Hey, how is that helping you? Because having that person that I can bounce this idea off of and Brent can Brent knows me well enough and loves me well enough to say, Hey, I don't think that's helping you. I think you need to let that go. And has told me that before. ⁓ and that's super helpful. ⁓ you have to have that. And so we say it every Every podcast, but we literally mean it. If you don't have that person, please reach out to us. We will be more than happy to talk you through some of those things and and hopefully also help you find a community in your area. Because sometimes they don't really exist or you don't know where to look. And you know, we've got we've got several resources that can maybe help you ⁓ locate some things or help you have the conversations of how to build that. I had to build that when I got here. And so I at least at the very least can give you some ideas. ideas and pointers on how to build that if it doesn't exist. So ⁓ reach out to us. We'd love to. ⁓ hey, let us ⁓ can I pray over you guys? I'd love that we we did this. ⁓ not just because it was my idea, but ⁓ because I think it's so important ⁓ to ⁓ to pray ⁓ for you guys and to know that we are ⁓ spending time ⁓ praying for you guys we think about you guys a lot and whatever you're going through we're here so don't be afraid to reach out let's pray god we just thank Yeah. For this opportunity to ⁓ to go off script a little bit and to ⁓ to discuss ⁓ not just ministry structures, but Lord to really look at look inward at our own systems. God, I pray for that youth pastor who feels like they're just flailing right now, trying to figure out how to how to do it right, how to grow, how to do all the things with their own pressures and external pressures that that come in. God, I pray that you would maybe. Maybe ⁓ show them show them some opportunities where they can grow ⁓ in different areas and and maybe some different systems that are God if it's hindering their discipleship Lord help them to let it go and and I pray for grace for or from the parents and leadership of their churches and their area and even grace from themselves, Lord to let some things go because sometimes we even as youth pastors have some some quote unquote holy cows that we hold on to that we need to let go of too It's really easy to point out others others, but sometimes our systems can be holy cows too. And so Father, help us to let go of those things, to ⁓ to give those to you and to trust that you have a perfect plan and purpose, not just for our ministries, not just for our churches and our and our communities, but also for us. So Lord help us to If it takes like a target three type type thing ⁓ to help us be consistent with our flow, Lord, I pray that you would just reveal to us what works and what doesn't and help us just to be gracious enough to to cut out what needs to be cut out and to hold on to what needs to to be held on to. Father, I pray that this truly is a a time of encouragement for those who are listening. God that they would hear this and and maybe some things ⁓ resonated that that makes them feel really good about what they're doing and maybe some things that, you know, hurt a little bit. God, I pray that ⁓ you would just help them to to see that they were created on purpose with a purpose, God, ⁓ and and how important ⁓ ministry that they're doing is ⁓ God not to not to inflate our own egos but to understand that we're doing the father's work and what an incredible ⁓ and humbling ⁓ gift of a job that we have. And so Father, may you ⁓ just encourage whoever's listening ⁓ today to to lean into ⁓ your perfect will and your perfect plan for their lives. God we thank you we pray as we go into this fall season Lord that we would be refreshed God that you would move in us and ⁓ and Father that you would just ⁓ bless our ministries. God give us ⁓ fresh Creative vision. and God, I truly pray that this would be the best school year ever. Not not because we're trying to be better than we were last year, but because ⁓ you moved so mightily that we can't help but to celebrate all the incredible things that you've done in and through us this week, this ⁓ week, this month, this semester and year. God, we thank you so much for what you have done and what you are going to do. It's in your name we pray. speaker-0: Yeah.