Latest / Sales Leadership with Fexingo: Quota Carriers, Sales Managers, and Revenue Teams / How Top Sales Reps Win Deals with Third-Party Validators
Transcript
- Lucas: Luna, I want to talk about a closing lever that most sales reps either misuse or don't use at all. The third-party validator — specifically, the live reference conversation. Luna: You mean like, putting a customer on the phone with a prospect? That feels like a pretty old-school move. Lucas: It is old school, but the data says it's incredibly effective when done right. Gong looked at over 20,000 deals in 2025 and found that deals with a live reference call closed 33 percent faster and at a five percent higher average contract value. Luna: Wow. So the skeptics who think a reference call just adds friction are actually wrong. It accelerates the deal. Lucas: Exactly. But here's the catch — it only works if you use the right reference. Most sales teams make the mistake of sending their one super-fan customer who says 'everything is amazing' every single time. That sounds canned, and the prospect knows it. Luna: So what does a good third-party validator look like? Is it always a customer? Lucas: It can be, but it's often more powerful when it's not your customer at all. Think about it: an industry analyst, a partner who integrates with your product, or even a former competitor who now uses your tool. The key is that the validator has credibility independent of your company. Luna: I can see why that would land. A prospect might think, 'Of course your customer says you're great — they bought from you.' But an analyst has no skin in the game. Lucas: Right. And the research backs that up. A 2024 TrustRadius survey found that prospects trust third-party review sites and analysts more than they trust vendor-provided case studies by a margin of two to one. So the live reference call is basically bringing that third-party voice into the room. Luna: Okay, so let's say I'm a rep with a deal stuck in procurement. How do I actually set up a reference call that moves the needle? Lucas: First, you don't ask for a reference right at the beginning of the process. You build it into the evaluation phase — maybe after a demo, when the prospect has seen the product and has specific doubts. You say something like, 'I know you mentioned integration concerns. I have a customer who faced the same issue. Would you be open to a 15-minute chat with their IT lead?' Luna: So you're targeting a specific objection, not just doing a general 'hey, here's a happy customer.' Lucas: Exactly. It's not a case study read-aloud. It's a targeted conversation. I worked with a cybersecurity company last year where the sales team was losing deals because prospects were worried about how the product handled compliance audits. The company had a customer in financial services who had passed three audits using the tool. That one reference call closed deals that had been stalled for months. Luna: That's a great example. And the compliance officer on the other end is going to trust another compliance officer way more than a sales rep. Lucas: Precisely. The peer to peer dynamic is the whole point. Now, there's a risk here — if you bring in a reference who is poorly prepared, it can backfire. So you need to coach your references. Give them a few bullet points about what the prospect is worried about. Ask them to speak in specifics, not generalities. 'We cut our incident response time by 40 percent' is better than 'we've seen huge improvements.' Luna: And what about the prospect who asks the reference a question you don't want answered? Like 'what do you dislike about the product?' Lucas: That's actually the moment where a good reference can be most persuasive. If your reference says 'honestly, the reporting dashboard took us a while to get used to, but once we customized it, we loved it,' that's gold. It's authentic. The prospect knows they're not getting a perfect picture, and the honesty builds trust. Luna: So you're saying you should actually encourage your references to talk about a minor downside? Lucas: Yes, within reason. There's a concept called the 'pratfall effect' in social psychology — if a credible person admits a small flaw, they become more trustworthy. I've seen reps script the reference call so tightly that it sounds like a hostage video. That kills the whole purpose. Luna: Alright, so we've covered the 'when' and the 'how.' Is there ever a time you should NOT use a third-party validator? Lucas: Absolutely. If you're early in the relationship and the prospect hasn't seen a real demonstration of value yet, a reference call is premature. They might not even know what questions to ask. Also, if your product has a known weakness that the reference might highlight — like a feature gap — don't set yourself up. Luna: So it's a tool for accelerating deals that are already moving, not for resurrecting dead ones. Lucas: Right. One more thing — the timing of the call matters. Don't put the reference call at the end of the cycle as a final check the box. Put it in the middle, after the demo but before the proposal. That way, the validator's comments can shape the proposal itself. Luna: That's smart. It lets you incorporate their objections or concerns into your solution before you send a contract. Lucas: Exactly. And if the prospect hears from a peer that the implementation was smooth, they'll be less likely to ask for a bunch of professional services hours in the contract. That alone can improve your margin. Luna: Okay, I'm convinced. But I want to shift gears a little. What about using third-party validators that aren't customers at all — like analysts or even competitors? Lucas: That's a whole other layer. Analyst references are tricky because they usually charge for access, but if you have a Gartner or Forrester report that positions you well, you can use that as a third-party endorsement without a live call. I've seen reps share a one-page summary of an analyst report with key quotes highlighted. That's a lightweight validator. Luna: And competitors? How would that work? Are you saying you'd bring a competitor on a reference call? Lucas: No, no — not a direct competitor. I'm talking about a company in a related space that doesn't compete but validates your approach. For example, a sales enablement platform might have a partnership with a CRM company. The CRM company's VP of Sales could say, 'We use their tool internally and it's helped our team increase pipeline velocity by 20 percent.' That's a powerful cross-reference. Luna: Right, so it's a partner or an ecosystem player. I can see how that would work, especially if the prospect already uses the partner's product. Lucas: Exactly. Now, let's talk about measurement. How do you know if your reference calls are actually working? You need to track two things: call completion rate and post-call deal movement. If prospects are agreeing to the call but then not advancing, either the reference is weak or the timing is off. Luna: We've been talking about live calls, but what about recorded video testimonials? Do those count as third-party validators? Lucas: They're better than nothing, but they don't carry the same weight. A live call is interactive — the prospect can ask follow-ups. That real-time exchange creates a different level of conviction. A video is passive. The prospect can watch it and still have unanswered questions. Luna: Makes sense. So if you had to give one piece of advice to a sales leader listening, what would it be? Lucas: Build a formal reference program. Don't just rely on your customer success team to throw a name at you when a rep asks. Identify your best validator customers — those who are articulate, honest, and willing to take 15 minutes a quarter. Train them. Track which references close the most deals. And give them a small token of appreciation — not a commission, but maybe a gift card or a featured spot in a case study. Luna: You know, we've been talking about sales acceleration and deal cycles, and it reminds me of why we keep these conversations ad-free. We want to give sales leaders real, actionable advice without any hidden agenda. Lucas: It's a deliberate choice. These episodes take time to research and produce, and we believe the content should speak for itself. If you've found value in what we're doing — maybe a script like this has helped you close a deal or improve your team — you can support the show at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. Luna: That's the only way we keep it going without sponsors. And it's entirely optional — we're grateful just to have you listening. Lucas: Okay, back to validators. One last point I want to make: don't overlook internal validators. If you have a product manager or an engineer who can speak to a prospect about how a feature was built, that can be just as powerful as a customer reference. Luna: An engineer? That's interesting. Wouldn't they get too technical? Lucas: They might, but if you coach them to focus on the 'why' behind the design decisions — why the API is structured this way, why we chose this security protocol — it can be incredibly convincing. Prospects love hearing from the people who actually built the product. Luna: So the takeaway is: third-party validators aren't just customer references. They're any credible outsider who can vouch for your product or your approach. Lucas: Exactly. And the best sales teams treat them as a strategic asset, not an afterthought. Start small — pick one deal that's stuck, find the right validator, and see what happens. Luna: I'd love to hear from listeners who try this and see a difference. Until next time.