Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Luke Sims-Jenkins about his choice of Earthshock (2/4)

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Talks to Luke Sims-Jenkins about his choice of Earthshock (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
0:37
Hello everyone, and welcome back to a Hamster with a Blunt Pen
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Knife, the Doctor Who Commentary podcast.
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Wow, I did that without stuffing it up at all.
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Wow. Today we're going to do Part 2
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of Earth Shock. I'm Luke Sims Jenkins and I'm
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your Co host with Mr. Joe Ford. Say hello, Mr. Joe Ford.
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I thought I was on the Mar and Chess club.
1:00
What's happening? Yes, we're going to be talking
1:04
some Peter Davidson. See, I've been on other podcasts
1:07
since I started the Mar and Chess Club, and almost all the
1:10
time it's been a different era of the show.
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And then you message me like Luke.
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You want to watch Earth Shock? Yes, must be so.
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Refreshing for you to watch something with Peter Davidson in
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it, you know? Wow.
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We had a wonderful time with episode 1 though, didn't we?
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I mean, what a cracker of an opener.
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It's great. It's it's fast-paced.
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The Tata scenes do does have arguing, but it also has like a
1:39
purpose. It has like a smoothing out with
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Nessa and Tegan kind of softening like the the other two
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then. And so that's like a, you know,
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a nice bit of kind of foreshadowing there.
1:51
All right, so Adric's going to leave.
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You don't know how yet. It's going to be it's going to
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go out with a bang. We know that.
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So yeah, it it and it and it goes up.
2:02
It's got got creepy tunnels. What wobbling rocks?
2:07
Androids, smoking corpses, desiccated hands and Cybermen.
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Destroy them but once. What's unusual is there is very
2:18
little world building in that first night.
2:21
Doctor Who usually will get straight down to the world
2:23
building, usually with a couple of sets and a lot of words,
2:27
right. Think of something like Rebus
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Operation. Think of something like Snake
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Dance. You know the world building
2:32
starts from the first scene. Whereas Earth Shock is, it's an
2:36
action movie. It just it's suspense, it's
2:40
pace, it's, you know, constantly moving.
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Now we do get a bit of well building later on to create the
2:47
the drama of the scenario, this great conference against the
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cyber race and all of that. But kind of that's just word
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peril with like really the important thing is, is the
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action in this. Yeah, I think a new series
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episode would at least kind of cut to some kind of preparations
3:08
being made. He's he's a draconian aide
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talking to the Prince of Draconia or something.
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Here's another room with Alpha Centauri or something like that,
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you know, things like that. And, you know, just to kind of
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make us care. Yeah.
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We don't even know, like. All right.
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So he's there to protect Earth, you know, Lieutenant Scott and
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and and he's cronies, but like Lieutenant of what?
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Like Earth military like what? What branch of it?
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Like who's you seen her officer like you might get a line.
3:43
Another story like General Georgeson sent us here to
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investigate what happened to you, archaeologist.
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Professor Kyle. I mean, where's she from?
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What institute? Why is she ticking up dinosaur
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bones? We don't know.
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I don't know if she even knows anything about dinosaurs because
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she never gets to prove that she knows anything about dinosaurs.
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But, and it is a big but, I don't care for this story.
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I am so happy that the story is so focused on the moment rather
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than the sort of the extraneous details.
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And that's why it's so gripping, because you're there in the
4:28
moment. You're running through those
4:30
caves, you know, being attacked by.
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You're there as that bomb is about to go off.
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You're there as those silos burst open and the Cybermen come
4:38
out. It delivers so much incident.
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It just doesn't matter, I don't think for once.
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Yeah, no, I agree is it's always a really fun kind of crazy place
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to this that I really like and I think say we keeps it up at
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least with resurrection of the Daleks.
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Absolutely for sure. I think in a way he does it with
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Revelation finally had you know more colon and and Nicola in the
5:05
action then I think it would have kind of mixed better.
5:07
I still love it, but you know that there is that criticism.
5:10
But yeah, say what you want about his stories, they're
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pacey. They're all pacey.
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Pulsive. Yeah.
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And like, there are plow holes in this.
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Like, I was thinking about it. Yeah, That really makes sense,
5:20
actually. Why are they doing that?
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Is that like. But like, that's me thinking
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about it afterwards, when I'm watching it, I'm never thinking
5:27
about that shit because, you know, I'm that guard that's
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trying to get into the TARDIS, and suddenly the side man leaps
5:34
out of nowhere and grabs her around the face and she screams
5:37
her head off and dies. You know?
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I'm Professor Kyle reaching for the console door, being shot to
5:42
death. You know, like when those things
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are happening, who gives a fuck about plot logic and things like
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that. I think resurrection,
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resurrection is Hanford by the fact that I mean scene to scene,
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it is still really gripping. But it is Hanford by the fact
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that there are so many plots in that, like which one am I in
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now? Whereas in this, there's just
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one plot, right? It's we need to figure out who's
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murdered the people, which leads us to the bomb, which leads us
6:13
to the freighter and the freighter then is heading to
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Earth. It's it's very linear.
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Whereas resurrection, it's just juggling so much.
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You're like, hang on, where are we on earth?
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Who are those duplicates? Well, God, you know, this is
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simple. And I think if you're going to
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do an action movie, keep it simple.
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No, I agree. I think a lot of a lot of the
6:37
plot holes and stuff I can overlook because I just like how
6:42
this story is paced. I like how it looks and it
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doesn't matter that this holes in the story.
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I believe, I believe Dave Owen is like I believe Janet.
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I believe Scott, you know, I believe the wonderful lady from
7:03
other shows that I don't know who didn't know what she was
7:05
making. What is it?
7:06
Barrel Reed? Seems to me she just looked like
7:08
an old lady. I would say at the shops that
7:10
had like old lady hair, but she was a captain and I was like,
7:13
all right, that's kind of cool. Yeah.
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My Nana could have whipped people into shape if she, if she
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I was a captain of a ship, every fucking walking stick and she'd
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wax. People listen to her.
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So I I believed her. I still do to this day, even
7:27
though everyone's mentioning all this kind of stuff.
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So. My nanny, Steptoe Luke, right,
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she had a best friend called Sissy, OK?
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And she was this madly eccentric old dear, right?
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With bleached ginger hair like crazy, like Bill Reed in this,
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that sort of crazy ginger. And she had a little budgerigar
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that she used to teach to swear she'd be there going.
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And they are many like 6 years old.
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So it's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard to see this
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crazy old woman going say shit Penny say shit Penny every time.
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Every time I say Beryl reading this I think of Sissy and she
8:11
was a piss head as well. And forgive me but the way Beryl
8:14
Willie says some of the lies Position your men on the
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walkway, Mr. Ringwade. I mean she sounds drunk.
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She reminds me so much of Sissy honestly.
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She wants a bonus. She's fucking drank the bonus, I
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think. Like she's definitely one of
8:26
those of those era of all right, we go to the pub after we shoot,
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right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Steven Moffett says it in the documentary, right?
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He says if I can get a famous celebrity in a small role in one
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of my Doctor Who stories, that is going to get me a headline
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or, or just some attention from the right people that are going
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to watch it on Saturday, you bet I'm going to do it.
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It's that he totally endorses J&T's decision.
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And I don't think, I really don't think J&T makes a bad move
9:00
with his stunt casting. Like I think all of them, even
9:04
if it's not the person that you would imagine in that role,
9:07
there's something interesting about the choice.
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I think it can pan out in ways you don't expect.
9:15
Like I think was Rouse, like Hindle, a bit of stunt casting
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at the time? Well, he wasn't known for doing
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the kind of thing that he has to do in Kinder.
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Things like that you've got. The the older guy, but he was
9:29
more than yeah, awesome because he was the movie actor I.
9:32
Think he was like an Oscar winner or nominated or?
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Something like that. And obviously nearest Hughes,
9:37
you know, ex live bird. And one of my favorite roles of
9:42
the era was like is Peter Wingard in Planet Fire as well.
9:45
So that's even amazing. Cooler because like he'd been in
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the dog house for a while. And J&T is like, I don't care
9:51
about that. He's a great actor.
9:52
We're going to put him in Doctor Who and he was.
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It's amazing. So.
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My single favorite bit of stunt casting from JNT is Brian
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Blessed. I just think that was the best
10:02
he ever did. That scene.
10:05
Well, what is that love? It's.
10:09
Just amazing. It was, It's never a surprise to
10:12
me that a lot of these actors did Doctor Who because I feel
10:15
like it gave them an opportunity.
10:18
I mean, I know Brian Blessed had lots of opportunities to play
10:21
crazy roles, but even still, Doctor Who has always been that
10:25
opportunity to do something different.
10:26
How many times was Belle Reed given the opportunity to play a
10:30
freighter Captain Who treats her, He turns out to be a
10:35
traitor, but treats her employees like shit just for a
10:38
bonus. You know, like she never, she'd
10:40
never get to play like a character like that again.
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So. Ringway right, is so like the
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whipped gay subordinate, isn't it?
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I mean, that's exactly what he is.
10:51
Oh, mum is going. I think that relationship is
10:58
great. She is just horrible to.
11:03
See, I really like Burger as well because burger should like
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he looks the he looks the burgers have to say like wow
11:11
what a bitch. And Berg's just like harden the
11:13
fuck up. Will you like doesn't she say at
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1:00? Point.
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Try not to be so earnest or something.
11:19
You know, you're far too easy to mock.
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And you know what? People like that, they need that
11:24
advice. I know many of people that take
11:27
themselves far too soon. I mean, there was a great line
11:30
in Canberra Obscura I was written the other day where the
11:32
doctor went oh, don't mind Sabbath.
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You know, it's very hard when you when you take yourself that
11:39
seriously and nobody else does. That's exactly the ring way.
11:44
Yes. Well, look, I mean, we've got
11:47
CSI bomb squads to watch. We've got Simon men bursting
11:53
outside, we've got Beryl Reed to see.
11:55
I mean, Are you ready for this excitement?
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I'm. I'm yes.
12:00
Hell yes. I'm ready.
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Excellent. Excellent.
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Well, shall I count us in? Absolutely.
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OK, Well, I'm ready in 321. Excellent.
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Off we go. I'm going to start doing my
12:18
countdowns now as 12345 like Ambrolin snake dance.
12:27
The sixth phase of delusion is the where is owned.
12:30
You know, that's probably the my dear.
12:36
I love that star field and someone, at least I don't think
12:39
you'll say it so I will say this is the greatest theme tune of
12:44
Doctor Who and. All that's a toughie.
12:48
I mean, I'm not sure I can even call it.
12:50
For me, it's hard. No one, McCoy.
12:52
But I can see why. I can see why.
12:56
Yeah, Kev Mcculloch's my second favorite as well as well.
12:59
I like how different both of those are to.
13:02
Oh, Jay and Teasler, he said. Go back a bit.
13:04
I want to see those smoking clothes again at the start of
13:06
the episode. That's a great show.
13:09
They're just like there and there's loads of smoke coming
13:12
off them. That's really cool, so.
13:15
What do those hand explosions do then?
13:19
They must liquefy you or something.
13:23
What are the hands made out of that they don't they don't melt?
13:29
Androids are made of a durable material.
13:31
We call it Cyberanium. That's what would happen if the
13:37
Terry Nation had created the Cyberman.
13:40
This is the single best POV shot I think in all of Doctor Who.
13:45
Because. But it's just the way it sort of
13:50
goes around as well, you know, like, they're sort of like
13:52
trying to focus in. Oh, don't you love those?
13:56
The fact that you can see the silver jaws in the Cybermen,
14:00
Yeah. I look I don't mind the like
14:05
moon based versions that they're fine, they look kind of cool,
14:08
but I like it when you can see some of the real person
14:12
underneath 10th part. It's a great example like even
14:15
the even the ones from the invasion, you might not be able
14:19
to see their faces, but their their arms and legs felt like
14:22
their real arms and legs, you know, like it's skin tight.
14:25
You know, I'm I'm going to throw a massive compliment at Davison
14:29
to the detriment of Tom Baker here.
14:32
But one thing Davidson does so well is brings a sense of energy
14:37
and urgency, right? He knows when he's got our talk
14:41
fast and, like, make it look like the situation is life and
14:46
death. Yeah.
14:46
Tom Baker, go look at season 18. I mean, he wanders around most.
14:50
I'd love season 18, don't get me wrong.
14:51
But he wanders around most of those stories absolutely
14:54
confident and a bit bored. You know, like, there's no,
14:57
there's no real moment. Think of moments like this in 18
15:00
where the doctor's sort of desperate and and really, you
15:03
know, like, like everyone take this seriously.
15:05
We're all going to die. That's I'm just thinking of like
15:10
the doctor and the leisure. I'm just kind of casually
15:12
strolling, stroll past all these guards.
15:16
Just he just walks through those cloisters like, oh, how jolly,
15:20
you know? Whereas watch Davidson in a
15:23
minute when he's at the bomb with Adric.
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I mean, that could have come from fucking CSI.
15:28
It's so pasty the way he does it.
15:30
He's calling out for the tools and he's doing stuff in the bomb
15:34
and he's explaining the plot. You know, it's so fast.
15:38
See, that's the other thing, like a lot of people will sort
15:42
of labour it at Davison. Oh, he's he's kind of wet and
15:45
all this kind of stuff. And like, then I watch like I
15:47
watch Earth shock and he's fully the forefront of most of the
15:52
action is from the moment he gets out of the TARDIS and
15:58
including in the TARDIS at the end where there is so many have
16:01
encroached the safe space of the TARDIS.
16:03
So he's a big part of all of it. And when you think about it, if
16:08
he. Hasn't.
16:09
If he didn't land here, the Simon would have been
16:11
successful. So it's not one of those stories
16:14
where, well, if the Doctor hadn't landed, the same things
16:16
would have happened. There's far less than those some
16:19
people will let you believe. Actually, there's only a
16:21
handful. But even when he's not diffusing
16:24
bombs, even when he's not running around the freighter
16:26
like a lunatic, Yeah. And even when he's still,
16:29
there's a wonderful shot I can always remember where
16:32
something's happening on the bridge or Briggs's, you know,
16:35
Briggs's bridge with the sideman.
16:37
And then the camera pans over to a console and down, and you've
16:41
got Adric and the doctor leaning against it, and he's got his
16:45
hands up like this. And you can just see his brain
16:48
going, you know, even when he's not moving, his brains going 10
16:52
to the dozen. You know exactly the shot I
16:55
mean, don't you? Yeah, he's got very fast acting
16:59
like he's the one doctor that I can imagine can because he does
17:03
it in snake dance because like he seems like such an impatient
17:06
Dr. all the time and very frustrated.
17:08
So it amazes me that he can like do intense stinky brain and also
17:12
get into a Zen meditative state with a crystal in no time at all
17:16
those he lives in the moment. This guy.
17:18
Slow motion exploding Android heads were the coolest thing I'd
17:22
ever seen when I first saw this. That was the right move.
17:26
It was a cool explosion. Slow it down, milk it.
17:30
Doctor Who doesn't get to milk like that.
17:32
Cool stuff like that, as as much as I'd like to admit it does.
17:36
You know, I've just realized. I think, I think I know.
17:39
I mean, I don't think Matthew Warehouse was a particularly
17:43
adept actor at this point, right?
17:45
I think there are absolute flaws in his performance.
17:48
But, you know, he can deliver a scene sometimes when he's with a
17:51
good enough actor. He's a really awkward physical
17:54
actor. I think that's his problem.
17:55
Did you see him sort of crawling over those rocks?
17:58
He looks so awkward. Yeah.
18:02
Yeah. Did.
18:04
He not do like kind of dance or movement or something like that.
18:08
Somebody like Sarah acting school too, where they kind of
18:11
make you walk in it like a long an army trench or something.
18:14
You might be in a cop show one day.
18:16
Do this. Sarah Sutton is so composed in
18:19
comparison. And you know, I mean, I think
18:22
Sarah Sutton has flaws as an actor as well.
18:24
I do think she's rather wonderful, but she wasn't really
18:28
given the opportunity. She could have done.
18:30
But look at look at her, she's pushed on a rock now.
18:32
She's very comfortable. See I know there's not a lot to
18:36
say about Nyssa as a whole in this, but I would just like to
18:40
say how many companions get to do cool tarts things like be
18:46
trusted to pilot it from here to there or she.
18:50
Blows up that Android. She knocks out the fosters.
18:54
I mean she takes out about 15 Time Lords.
18:56
An arc of Infinity. She's a cool bitch.
18:59
Oh yeah, I definitely wouldn't mess with it.
19:05
I like. Weapon in Iran.
19:06
Jesus. I like Davidson's hot acting
19:09
before as well. Like getting towards it?
19:12
Yeah, well, I mean, like, you got to do that stuff in Doctor
19:16
Who, don't you? Oh, I love the washout effect
19:18
there as well, when the bomb's exposed.
19:22
I just think it's. Like the bomb, can't believe it
19:25
got discovered. He knows how to capture the
19:28
moment, doesn't he? Peter Greenwich?
19:31
Like in a way that a lot of directors in the 80s, they,
19:34
they, they can't always get the moments of drama in the way that
19:38
you should. I know Peter Groom made wanted
19:40
to direct his baby which was time flight but I'm really glad
19:44
he didn't. Oh, I don't know.
19:46
I think I would have liked to have seen that.
19:49
I mean, you. It wouldn't have been as absurd
19:52
as it as it turns out to be. Oh, Crispin's boys.
19:55
Why couldn't you have stayed on? Now, I I don't wish to alarm
20:02
you, Luke, but. I must inform you, because we
20:06
are going to see lots of long shots of them, that the cyber
20:10
bums and cyber crotches are so beautiful in this story that
20:16
when they're marching about we'll be a bit hot and bothered.
20:19
OK, just to warn you. That's that's that's OK.
20:25
Why do we have to watch a season 19 story then?
20:27
We could have gone to season 21 with the leather mini skirt but.
20:32
Excuse me. Look, you've got beautiful Janet
20:34
Field in here. Sarah Sutton, Professor Kyle,
20:36
you're not exactly shortchanged. If you like that, then you've
20:39
got Barrel Reed. I, like Jenna, must feel the
20:45
relief of being able to get changed in this episode.
20:48
Instead it's like one of those military garbage bags are all
20:51
wearing so. But at least it's some.
20:55
Do you see this? It's cut, cut, cut.
20:57
Sideman, console bomb. The Doctor and the TARDIS
21:00
sideman console bomb. I mean, there was about 8 cuts
21:04
there and that's not how Doctor Who was shot at this point.
21:09
So when you when you think about the Cybermen, they're supposed
21:12
to be these cold kind of calculating monsters.
21:16
But when you look at a lot of stories before Earth shock, most
21:18
Cybermen stories, they'll either be more in the background or
21:23
they'll have like a human, more of a human kind of cipher, like
21:27
a Vaughn or something like that. I all right, sure, it might
21:32
might take some of the cyberness out of the Cybermen, but I think
21:35
it was a really I think it was a good touch when I say, well, it
21:39
was his choice to give them a bit more oomph, a bit more
21:41
personality. Yeah.
21:44
And I think, I think it works and I think.
21:46
I've given it to David Banks as well, who really gets to the
21:52
heart of the performance. And to me, you can always just
21:56
say, like, you can always just write it off with a line like
21:58
Uncle Terry and just say that it's a, it's like a parody of
22:02
human performance, you know? Man, what is wrong with these
22:06
people that say Oh well right, this race of people and these
22:09
are the rules. No, some of them will cybertise
22:12
slightly less than others and so they've still got human.
22:16
I mean, it's called revenge of the fucking Cybermen.
22:18
They were hardly emotionless in that story.
22:21
What do the Cybermen want? Revenge.
22:24
What? Why?
22:26
Oh yeah. Davidson is so good in this
22:30
scene. I mean, he's making that fucking
22:32
dreary prop look like the most dangerous thing we've ever
22:35
faced. It looks like just someone just
22:38
bolted on a few bits and bobs on a get old ghetto blaster from
22:41
the 80s which. The way he sort of, you know, he
22:43
gets burned by the coil when he comes away, look at his face.
22:47
He's like, shit, we are going to die any minute now.
22:51
Pass me the laser spanner Adric, and stop being a useless come.
22:55
Come on. That's right.
22:58
Now they've got the backup plan, which is then going to Earth.
23:01
Extreme close up as well. And look, he ain't afraid of
23:04
that camera, is he? You got that face.
23:08
You don't mind the close-ups? I like to think that, Davidson
23:11
said to Peter Graham. Come on, go a bit closer.
23:13
Come on, I can handle. It yeah, even on Blu-ray, like,
23:18
you know. Don't you always love the fact
23:20
that you have like this stupid cyber Lieutenant as well, you
23:23
know so. Oh yeah, it's like his first day
23:27
on the fucking job being the Lieutenant to the cyber leader.
23:30
He didn't download any of the freaking data packs and stuff
23:33
like hey, what's up bro? I'm your new cyber Lieutenant.
23:36
Like how do you like things run? What do you like as a commander?
23:40
Like. We had great fun with that one
23:42
with from the Five Doctors, didn't we?
23:43
Yeah. Oh, I found the ones from the
23:46
Tartars. The one from Attack of the
23:50
Cyberman is so useless. Oh.
23:54
My goodness, in my these particular caves.
23:58
Yeah, exactly. The Doctor, The Doctor had a
24:00
line there as well about remember we were asking about
24:03
how powerful the bomb was. It was a great line as well.
24:08
He goes just enough to make life deplorable for those who've
24:12
survived. So OK, it'll be a Big Bang.
24:17
Yeah, and then you'd get the Cybermen coming back to Earth to
24:21
kind of mop up survivors and kind of cyberize them, I guess.
24:25
Oh, you know what, Luke? I know that object.
24:32
That's right. And maybe you should get your
24:35
bio scanners work. Oh no, you don't have those.
24:39
There was a shot there that like, you just would never have
24:42
today, right? It was at the start of this
24:44
scene in the console room where everybody was lined up, so they
24:49
were all in shock because it's a massive group of people.
24:52
And then all of a sudden they all start moving about, you
24:56
know, and they've obviously got their marks on the floor and all
24:59
of that. You just don't shoot TV like
25:01
that anymore. No, you do not.
25:05
I do want to give props to Tegan because both in this and the
25:10
Visitation there is some very short distance TARDIS driving by
25:14
people and she doesn't get all fucked off that they could do
25:18
that they couldn't get it a bloody Heathrow in the 80s.
25:22
So dude, I know this is kind of fan wank and the this era will
25:28
kind of grow with a lot of this stuff.
25:30
But as a as a kid who hadn't seen lots of Doctor Who at this
25:35
point, stuff like this montage here with the previous meetings
25:40
with Assignment, the moment where you get a bit of history
25:44
with the Brigadier and stuff and Morden undead help.
25:48
The just the existence of the five Doctors itself.
25:51
You know, just those kinds of things were tangible, like
25:57
visible Nuggets of of old Doctor Who I could watch rather than,
26:02
you know, just old photos in a hanging book or, or and things
26:06
like that. So.
26:07
I think it's something you can do every now and again.
26:10
I wonder if by the time you get to like Resurrection of the
26:13
Daleks, when it's cycling through all the companions,
26:15
you're like, OK, we're doing this again.
26:17
This time. I mean, it hasn't been done
26:19
before. The Maudrin undead one.
26:22
It's a real, it's a brilliantly directed character moment as
26:26
well of him remembering all that stuff.
26:28
And you've got resurrection with the companion montage as well.
26:31
Apart from. That that's the one.
26:32
I'm just like that feels a bit throw away and like it doesn't
26:35
feel like a moment, you know? It's like, Oh well, the fans
26:39
like this stuff, let's do it again.
26:41
Let's put it in but the new. Series does it every now and
26:44
again, like that wonderful moment at the end of the 11th
26:46
hour. You know which cycles for all
26:48
the doctors and any steps through.
26:51
And I think the new series has shown more restraint in that
26:53
type of stuff then. You know what the best?
26:56
One is then maybe the niche markets that make a lot of
26:58
Doctor Who stuff. So yeah.
27:00
The best one is the Timeless Children, when she blasts the
27:03
Matrix with her whole life and you just see flashes of all of
27:08
Doctor Who. Oh my God.
27:10
Wonderful. Yeah, you heard me, everyone.
27:13
I said the Timeless Children. Now you're preaching to the
27:16
choir because I remember watching Jodie's era and
27:20
thinking this gives me Davison vibes.
27:25
Maybe not in terms of. Like a blonde, amiable Dr. Yeah,
27:31
maybe full of energy and bounce. Yeah, lots of companions.
27:35
A companion that stays for the entire era.
27:38
Yeah, yeah, and, and all that kind of stuff.
27:42
And I was never worried. I know, I know people would say
27:45
like Ryan didn't do anything this week.
27:47
This week, yes, didn't do anything this week.
27:49
And I heard on a podcast that might even be have been you on
27:54
untitled Star Trek project mentioned that hey, yeah, you
27:58
know, like next generation like no one complaints that Riker
28:02
didn't have any lines this week because it was a data centric
28:04
episode. You know what I mean?
28:06
There's like, there's twenty of these and like again.
28:11
They think Doctor Who's got rules.
28:12
They think it's got to be a certain way.
28:14
Everyone's got to have a massive cut of pie every week.
28:17
No, it's malleable. Yeah.
28:21
Did you see this We. We cut to the freighter, not to,
28:24
and they're sitting around smoking their cigarettes, aren't
28:28
they? So Ward loves them smoking
28:30
cigarettes. Dude, I was having this
28:33
conversation with Dylan Reece watching Resurrection and Alex
28:37
said I'd never noticed that Lady in the background smoking
28:40
before. Oh, she's wonderful.
28:42
And now all the instances of smoking are popping up into my
28:46
brain. And that that was not one that
28:49
was pointed out to me. I don't think Earth shock.
28:52
We've got the fellow who gets his neck sucked by the mutant.
28:56
He's having a sly fag in the warehouse.
29:00
Isn't there a a photo or or something somewhere of David
29:03
Banks or so a Cyberman of this era with their helmet on having
29:07
a smoke? But it's so is there anything
29:10
more Eric's award than cut into that freight?
29:13
And you've got two people sitting there smoking, being
29:15
really cynical about everything. I save joy in their lives.
29:22
I say this in a, in a, in a good way, I I reckon, because like,
29:26
hey, there's worse riders than Eric Saywood on bike seven, I
29:29
reckon, but Eric Saywood probably had at least a it's a
29:33
really, really solid upper mid tier Blake seven episode or two.
29:40
For sure. I mean, he would have written
29:42
the most exciting Blake Seven episode you've ever seen.
29:44
It would have been full of action.
29:46
Terry would have loved it like, that's for sure.
29:48
Yeah. Don't call me mom on the bridge.
29:54
7 hours I've been waiting it's so great he.
29:59
Was waiting 7 hours on set too if you watch the behind the
30:02
scenes that's taking so long and what the fuck is happening?
30:06
Now what? What a sensible television
30:11
producer would have done, would have hired in another very
30:14
capable, cynical actor, and all of these scenes would have been
30:18
so dull. You bring in barrel Reed and
30:21
suddenly the light bulbs on. It's wonderful.
30:26
Like even without knowing much about who, what her career is or
30:31
anything like that, I know she stands out in terms of like
30:35
everybody else I see in a standard Doctor Who story.
30:38
Like she pops, the girl read pops so it's great time she she
30:44
wasn't if it puts up bubble. The patrols, you're beginning to
30:48
bore me. I love, I love that line.
30:53
You're beginning to. Look at that.
30:58
Now they look down over at the silos and it cuts to a fantastic
31:02
model shot of the silos. That is a fantastic shot.
31:05
It even could have just been a nighttime shot of a dockyard or
31:08
something, you know, like. I may have been lauding the
31:11
lighting in those cave sets, but in a minute where the Doctor and
31:15
that are wandering around those silos, that is some serious
31:19
movie style light in there. I think in some ways that's what
31:27
kind of that's the the kind of vibe that J&T was tapping into
31:33
and that's why people's mileage may vary.
31:36
Now, if you like a lot of AD sci-fi or action movies, I do
31:42
into the video store all the time to rent just those kinds of
31:45
movies. Then watching this kind of
31:49
Doctor Who even with like this really, you know, kind of
31:52
dapper, polite, charming Dr. Doctor in the forefront.
31:56
It kind of fits that that vibe. All right, Sure, it doesn't have
32:00
terminated production values, but it's got dudes melting.
32:05
It's got killer cyber robots. It's it's got everything.
32:10
It's got the sci-fi though, right?
32:11
Yeah, this ain't my, you know, metal corridors with, you know,
32:16
shadows moving and military men and cynical people.
32:21
But it's Doctor Who, right? So you're right.
32:24
You put in the perfect English Gen. in the middle of this.
32:28
You put in Beryl Reed in the mad eccentric performance in the
32:31
middle of this, you, you make one of the robots.
32:35
It's, you know, overspoken, polite, you know, this is
32:40
excellent news, you know, and all of a sudden, all of that
32:44
sort of brutal, masculine sci-fi becomes so much more
32:48
interesting. Yeah, if it wasn't.
32:52
Doctor Who, I think this would be interminable, but because
32:56
it's Doctor Who and it has all of these wonderful flourishes,
33:00
it becomes so entertaining. I've said it on the book club
33:05
many a time, like Doctor Who will do genres that I just don't
33:13
give a shit about, like City of the Dead, which is like an urban
33:17
fantasy novel. It's set in the modern day of
33:21
when that book was published. I care about urban fantasy and
33:25
magic and stuff. I love that book.
33:27
That is a bad piece of that chaotic 8th Doctor into that
33:31
world. It's wonderful.
33:34
I like, I like fairy tale world and grim reality and like just
33:41
kind of romance aspects that we've been some of the books
33:45
that we've covered that I don't know, like.
33:48
Yeah, there's a little magic. This is a different angle, angle
33:52
of that for you, you. This is not your genre, but
33:55
because it's Doctor Who, it works, Yeah.
33:58
Well, I think on the other level that this works is it is just so
34:02
well executed. It's so well done and that
34:05
impresses me no end because they had no money.
34:08
They had fuck all money to make this.
34:10
It looks like it had four times the budget that it did.
34:13
It does make me think that had JNT been given a reasonable
34:18
budget for a science fiction show in the 80s, man.
34:21
Give him the talents of Wenchuang Budget, yeah?
34:23
Yeah, He, he would have spun absolute gold out of it.
34:26
He got that model shot in Trial of a Time Lord.
34:29
He that amazing Lanzarote footage in Planet of Fire, you
34:32
know, and he had no money. I think it's impressive.
34:36
It's so impressive. Like, people really come down
34:39
hard on this era. But like, the more I listen to
34:42
your podcast and the more I explore it myself, I just think
34:46
there's, there's, there's so much to be impressed by.
34:49
I've now it hasn't all been me, just I think gushing about me,
34:56
loving every aspect of it. I think it was also through an
34:58
episode with you that I did discover that when I have to put
35:01
my analytical brain on. All right, I do have to admit
35:04
there is one boring Davidson story and it's Arc of Infinity
35:09
even. That's what the ergo no.
35:11
And that's got it's a Colin Bacon like being awesome the
35:14
whole time. So and he just disappeared.
35:16
Pony up plot at the start. Come on now this thing is
35:19
happening. I like this.
35:23
Oh, it ended. Oh yeah.
35:25
Did you notice the shot right with the two corpses right in
35:29
the front? That sound effect of the two
35:32
guys going that's just stayed with me, not in terms of like my
35:37
nightmares or anything like that, but sometimes they're a
35:40
Doctor Who sounds you can just think of verse shot.
35:43
It sounds like a barbershop. I got killed by a Cyberman
35:50
barbershop quartet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:54
Oh, this is such a great story. Like I've been saying this a lot
35:57
about classic I like I'm I'm coming to this weird conclusion
36:01
loop that I'm sort of all of it is comfort TV for me now, all of
36:04
classic who, no matter what I'm watching.
36:07
But I think this is something quite special.
36:11
I think they got they did that unusual thing of getting the
36:15
right writer at the right time, the right director.
36:18
And that is where a lot of mid 80s Doctor Who falls down is
36:21
when it isn't the right director, the right musician,
36:25
all the right actors. I don't know.
36:27
There's there's just a bit of magic here, I think.
36:30
I think when you're going for it in terms of doing what you can
36:33
with production and also you stunt castings and all things
36:37
like that, it can go right, like earth shock and it can go wrong.
36:42
Like what is the date of time fight or something like that,
36:44
You know, and look, I, I love those stories, but and I when I
36:50
say I love them the same way I like the animal water menace.
36:53
You know, it's, it's fun and I'm just going to have a laugh and a
36:56
good time. And I never used to be able to
36:59
do that about Doctor Who for me, I I was I take Doctor Who
37:02
seriously kind of man. And then and then I don't know,
37:06
I mean, like then I kind of put it in my head like, what are my
37:10
go to stories to watch? If we're not talking David,
37:12
like, what's your favorite Tom Baker story?
37:14
And if like, you know, the Android Tatar is up there for
37:18
me. Like things like that.
37:21
You know, I love my serious stories, but I like I found all
37:24
right, that's not a good example of trashy doctor because that's
37:26
great. But I found that I kind of like
37:29
going back to like I I know Underworld and other stories.
37:34
I don't know why I have mileage for some of those, but I do.
37:37
Yeah, we'll see. I think.
37:42
I think that era should have just trusted its leading man
37:48
because columns, right? And he'll be approved right when
37:52
he goes to big. Sorry.
37:53
Like I've done this in the last few because there's overlap with
37:57
the Saywood era of of Davison and Colin just by doing Mar
38:03
chess club. I have, you know, watched a bit
38:08
more re watched a bit more 232223 than I used to, because
38:14
usually if I'm in a column mood, I'm going to be finished because
38:17
that's how he wanted to play it. And I don't know, but I, I love
38:23
this sports and all, and I, I kept that hat on and watched
38:28
Colin and it, it kind of worked for me.
38:32
You know what I mean? Does that sound weird?
38:35
Not at all. Not I mean, I, I do think I, I
38:38
think there are flaws in the Davison era.
38:42
I think there are moments where the money let's down.
38:45
I think there are moments where they've gone for safe directors
38:49
rather than really good directors, where the music isn't
38:53
as atmospheric as it could be, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
38:57
Now I would like as a financial exercise to hand somebody like
39:02
Dylan Reese, you know, producer of television.
39:04
Now I like to hand him the equivalent amount of money to
39:08
make one of these stories, to produce something science
39:13
fiction, exciting, pacey, with set pieces, with celebrity
39:19
actors. Yeah.
39:20
And I want to see what they would put on the screen.
39:23
And now with the same amount of money, I'm almost willing to bet
39:27
it would be worse production values on The Blair Witch
39:31
Project. I, I need to make a make a point
39:35
here as we get along in society, everyone's got this thing of we
39:40
need things to look as good as technology allows them to look.
39:46
I just think like I love this old game called Fallout 3.
39:50
And in 18 months I came out and Fallout New Vegas and they've
39:53
got the same kind of crappy graphics they've always had.
39:56
And I go back to those games because I don't care that they
39:58
look good. I care that it plays great and
40:00
the story's awesome. So I was always like that, like.
40:04
All right, I like my 10 episodes of Strange New Worlds every
40:08
season, but you know, they look beautiful.
40:13
But if you want to slash the budget in half and make it look
40:15
like T&G and give me 26 episodes, fuck yeah, let's go.
40:19
You know, like I don't, I don't need it to look like the best
40:22
thing I've ever seen in my life. I need it to be good.
40:27
And it's not always the same thing, if that you know, like.
40:30
Trouble is, I don't think you and I are representative of.
40:34
Of the audience they television, no one's watching our TV shows
40:37
because they're. No, they expect style over
40:40
sobicers. They expect to look rich.
40:42
But I was listening to Toby the other day talking about Marco
40:45
Polo, and it was a wonderful moment of his commentary where
40:49
he's talking about what is clearly a very fake backdrop
40:55
outside Kubla Khans Palace showing the rest of the fabulous
40:58
city, you know? And he goes, and if you're the
41:01
sort of person who who we'll ignore the fact that you've got
41:07
superb actors saying rich dialogue in a fascinating story
41:13
with beautiful sets and gorgeous costumes and wonderful music.
41:19
And if you can say, oh, well, that backdrop looks really fake
41:23
and that is enough to spoil it for you.
41:25
It goes, Well, it goes, I'm very happy for you, but I also don't
41:29
want to have a conversation with you.
41:30
And that's exactly how I feel. Yeah, you got to know what
41:34
you're you kind of involved with.
41:37
I feel like anyone watching classic Doctor Who now should
41:40
know, Like it's warts and all. That's that's how it is.
41:43
When you could say about a shock, you know, they've got
41:45
moon boots on and that those staircases clank, you know, and
41:49
clearly it's not metal that the sidemen are ripping out of in
41:53
the silos and all of that shit. But do you want to enjoy telly?
41:57
Like, do you want to enjoy what you're watching?
42:00
And you know, I'll say it again, this is pretty sophisticated
42:04
stuff. For the money that I had, it's
42:06
impressive.