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The Science of Reading in Action: Ohio's Blueprint for Literacy Success · At the Table

• 0:09
  Dr. Lolli: Welcome to At the Table, a podcast by the Ohio Leadership Advisory Council.
• 0:13
  Dr. Lolli: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:15
  Dr. Lolli: Elizabeth Lolli, Director of OLAC.
• 0:17
  Dr. Lolli: This is the space where Ohio education leaders come together to explore timely and relevant topics, shaping leadership, learning, and school improvement across the state.
• 0:27
  Dr. Lolli: Whether you're a superintendent, principal, coach, or classroom teacher, there's a seat for you here.
• 0:33
  Dr. Lolli: Let's get started Today, our guest is Dr.
• 0:37
  Dr. Lolli: Shireen Tambarajah, and she is an administrator for the Office of Literacy and Achievement at the Ohio Department of Education Workforce.
• 0:46
  Dr. Lolli: Thank you so much for being with us today.
• 0:48
  Dr. Tambraia: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:49
  Dr. Lolli: We really appreciate your, taking the time to be here.
• 0:52
  Dr. Lolli: Um, can you talk a little bit about your career path and the experiences that led you to, um, work at the department?
• 1:00
  Dr. Tambraia: Sure, yeah.
• 1:00
  Dr. Tambraia: So, um, I received my doctorate in speech and hearing sciences at The Ohio State University, and I stayed on there for about 10 years.
• 1:10
  Dr. Tambraia: I stayed on as a post-doc and then a research associate.
• 1:14
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and I was really involved with a lot of studies that looked at literacy interventions for students and young children who had speech and language difficulties.
• 1:23
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and it...
• 1:24
  Dr. Tambraia: I love that work, um, it's, it's what I'm meant to do.
• 1:27
  Dr. Tambraia: Uh, but I started to get a little, I guess, frustrated is the word, um, with just how long research takes to happen.
• 1:35
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so, you know, it takes three years to get a grant, another four years to run a grant, and then a few more years to publish the findings.
• 1:43
  Dr. Tambraia: And so I started feeling like I'm doing all this work, and I don't know how it's actually impacting students.
• 1:51
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so when an opportunity came up at the department to serve as the state's dyslexia administrator, I thought,"Okay, well, this is very different.
• 2:00
  Dr. Tambraia: Policy is a very different world than research, but I'm gonna give it a try and, um, and see what happens." And so I spent about a year and a half as dyslexia administrator, realized there's a lot of data that we collect at the state, a lot of literacy data, um, and so my brain just started spinning of like,"Oh my gosh, there's so much that we can do here with, with the information that we collect at the state level that can have a much more direct impact for students and educators." Um, and so I've now been at the department for almost five years, October will be five years, job hopped a little bit from dyslexia administrator to a researcher and now to administrator, where I really...
• 2:38
  Dr. Tambraia: I get to oversee the larger vision of what happens with literacy in the state of Ohio.
• 2:43
  Dr. Tambraia: So it's, it's a dream job.
• 2:45
  Dr. Lolli: You know, literacy's always been a passion of mine, and, um, in my career, I, I work to support, uh, literacy in every classroom, making sure that our students receive what they needed to receive.
• 2:56
  Dr. Lolli: So I'm really excited about Ohio's emphasis on it.
• 3:00
  Dr. Lolli: What first sparked your passion for this work?
• 3:04
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so I've, I've always been interested in language.
• 3:07
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, I've always been interested in education, um, but it really, it was- You know, just this idea that humans have this very complex way of communicating with each other, and language can be so beautiful and diverse.
• 3:21
  Dr. Tambraia: And so I was...
• 3:22
  Dr. Tambraia: When I was in school, I really wanted to explore, um, uh, a topic that I could learn more about language.
• 3:30
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so I, I actually started out in linguistics.
• 3:33
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, I started my doctorates in, in linguistics, but learned very quickly that it's, it's not the mechanics of language that is interesting to me, but the acquisition of it, um and why, why some students and kids have trouble ac- you know, with those early years of acquiring language.
• 3:49
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so that's kind of what brought me to it.
• 3:51
  Dr. Tambraia: And then when I was doing my doctorate, I was actually funded through a literacy training grant through the Institute of Education Sciences.
• 3:58
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so it was just baked into what I did, that everything I did was to advocate in the field of speech-language pathology for advancing literacy for students who were struggling
• 4:10
  Dr. Lolli: What, what are the trends or improvements that you're seeing across Ohio because of this literacy focus?
• 4:16
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so I think we're seeing a lot, especially in the last few years.
• 4:19
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, I think one of the biggest, one of the biggest cha- changes and trends that we're seeing is around the use of high-quality instructional materials, uh, both for core instruction and for intervention.
• 4:31
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so at the department, we, we ran a survey, I think in 2022, and looked at what materials were being used across the state, and the just huge uptake and increase in using high-quality materials.
• 4:48
  Dr. Tambraia: Of course, it is in, in law, so there's a little bit of teeth for people to be able to do that, but just to see that that's being used, um, and so quickly, I think is one, one of the most exciting trends that we're seeing.
• 4:59
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, the other big thing that we've seen is the uptake in our state-developed signs of reading professional learning.
• 5:05
  Dr. Tambraia: Uh, we have a lot of different pathways that serve educators, uh, across grades and for administrators as well.
• 5:12
  Dr. Tambraia: Uh, and we've had over a hundred and sixteen thousand, um, completion certificates for those trainings, which is, is really, I think, tremendous.
• 5:23
  Dr. Lolli: You know, every school district hasn't probably jumped on board with the science of reading or, or with this entire literacy initiative, even with the high-quality materials.
• 5:34
  Dr. Lolli: So what supports are the state, uh, providing for those school districts, um, that are a little slow on the uptake or having some difficulty getting it implemented in their districts?
• 5:47
  Dr. Tambraia: Yeah.
• 5:47
  Dr. Tambraia: So we, um, we try to do as much communication and outreach as possible.
• 5:52
  Dr. Tambraia: So our team, uh, throughout the school year does monthly what we call Read Ohio Policy Hours, and, uh, it's really just a time for anyone in the education community to come and join a webinar, ask questions, talk to our department leaders about both policy, but also implementation, and get some ideas for how to, to better support their practice.
• 6:16
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so that is...
• 6:17
  Dr. Tambraia: We-- I think we have usually over five hundred people register for those policy hours, so, um, to me, that's good.
• 6:23
  Dr. Tambraia: That means that people understand, like, there is a need, and there's, there's things that they, um, can come and ask questions about, and so we feel really good that we've got those open lines.
• 6:32
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and then, of course, we do develop a lot of different types of resources, guidance documents.
• 6:38
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, we try to embed as many scenarios and try to, try, try to anticipate challenges that districts might be having and provide, um, ways and, and, um, ideas for what they could do to overcome some of the challenges that they might be facing.
• 6:57
  Dr. Lolli: You know, s- some educators believe that the science of reading is new.
• 7:01
  Dr. Lolli: It's a new initiative, you know, it's something that just rolled out.
• 7:05
  Dr. Lolli: Whenever We know that it's been around, and it's been in the research for decades.
• 7:09
  Dr. Tambraia: Yep.
• 7:09
  Dr. Lolli: Whenever we think about that, why is it so important that people understand that this research base has been there, and that we are focusing on what the research has been telling us for decades?
• 7:22
  Dr. Lolli: Why is that important?
• 7:23
  Dr. Tambraia: Well, I think, I mean, part of why it's important is because a lot of people who might feel somewhat, um, unsure about whether they should be following these practices or not think that there's a bit of a pendulum swing, that this is kind of the fad for right now, and science of reading is a, is just a term, um, that doesn't really have a lot of weight behind it.
• 7:45
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, but I think what we try to embed in all of our documents as well is that everything around the science of reading really is, it's research-based, but it's also evidence-based.
• 7:57
  Dr. Tambraia: There is just mountains of data that's, that supports not only what we know about what are the prerequisites for reading, what are the skills that we know we need to teach children so that they are prepared as they advance through, um, through school to be good readers.
• 8:14
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, but we also have a ton of data on what is the best way to teach children how to read.
• 8:19
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and the findings from those studies have been just consistent over decades, as you just said.
• 8:25
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so, you know, I think, I think the more that we embed that research as part of what we do in terms of our guidance, um, that is really the best way that we can move that messaging forward.
• 8:38
  Dr. Lolli: Of the major components of science of reading, you know, we have phonemic awareness, we have phonics, we have vocabulary, fluency, comprehension.
• 8:46
  Dr. Lolli: In your work most recently, what's been the most challenging for educators to actually implement?
• 8:53
  Dr. Lolli: Which of those five, if any of those five?
• 8:57
  Dr. Tambraia: So I, I think it depends on the grade band.
• 9:01
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so what we find, especially in our data when we look at the types of interventions that are being provided to students who are struggling, uh, is that we...
• 9:13
  Dr. Tambraia: So for our younger students, where phonemic awareness and phonics instruction is really heavily emphasized, teachers in those grade bands have a br- they have a pretty good sense of how to do that.
• 9:26
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, but I think some of the comprehension strategies to embed within, um, instruction for younger students, that is a little bit more of a challenge for, for teachers of, of younger students.
• 9:37
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, but now what we're seeing, especially because reading improvement monitoring plans are following students until they become proficient readers, is that teachers who serve older students who are having difficulties reading, the struggle for them is really understanding phonics instruction and phonological awareness and how important that is.
• 9:54
  Dr. Tambraia: They need to Students need that before they can get to, um, the comprehension activities.
• 10:00
  Dr. Tambraia: So I, I think it varies just depending on the way that teachers are trained, that a lot of middle school teachers might not have ever had a heavy influence on some of those word, word recognition, um, instruction.
• 10:13
  Dr. Lolli: And if I'm a, if I'm a struggling teacher, or I- I'm a principal who has a struggling teacher, where can I go for support in helping people understand how to, to teach, um, phonemic awareness, or how to teach comprehension to early primary children, or how to actually teach phonics to a middle schooler who's not quite reading?
• 10:33
  Dr. Tambraia: Well, yeah, that's a great question.
• 10:35
  Dr. Tambraia: So there's a couple of things that we're doing now at the state.
• 10:37
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, one is that we are in the process of revising our standards, our English language arts standards, um, and within that, um, focusing on some of those earlier skills, those foundational skills, is part of the standards.
• 10:52
  Dr. Tambraia: So that is a really impressive change that we've been able to push through, um, because we know that it is so important.
• 10:57
  Dr. Tambraia: So that'll be one thing.
• 10:58
  Dr. Tambraia: There'll be a, there'll at least be an impetus for making sure that teachers of older students, um, have that focus.
• 11:06
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, we also, as I mentioned before, have our state-developed Science of Reading Pathways, um, and those are specific to teachers serving grade k- kindergarten through fifth grade, and then teachers, uh, sixth through 12th grade.
• 11:21
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so that is another area, um, where we can provide a lot of support around what instructions should look like.
• 11:28
  Dr. Tambraia: And then the other thing that we do specific around intervention strategies is we, we provide what we call, like, these RIMP intervention videos, and so they're on our website.
• 11:36
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and it's really just a demonstration of what it would look like to provide intervention in a specific area to a student who is struggling.
• 11:44
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so we, we try to push all of the, the resources that we, um, have developed over time, um, because we get a lot of good feedback on those as well.
• 11:53
  Dr. Lolli: What, what are you hearing or seeing in classrooms that's showing that the changes that we've made in literacy over the last few years is actually working?
• 12:02
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so yeah, that's a, that's a great question, too.
• 12:06
  Dr. Tambraia: So one of the, one of the best sources of actual classroom data that we have is through our Read Ohio coaching program.
• 12:12
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so right now we have 150 schools that are served by Read Ohio coaches.
• 12:19
  Dr. Tambraia: We're about to expand on that, um, as a part of the governor's recent directives to the department.
• 12:25
  Dr. Tambraia: And, um, and so within the Read Ohio coaching program, we've been able to see coaches working very directly one-on-one with teachers or in small groups with teachers, and we're seeing really great effects both for teacher practices, that they're able to use more, um, explicit instructional strategies in their classrooms.
• 12:45
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, but we also collect student-level data, and we're starting to see that that is also having an impact on student outcomes.
• 12:52
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so that is really exciting for us because we are, we are...
• 12:56
  Dr. Tambraia: You know, that's, that's really the only way that the department sometimes gets to get into, um, what's happening boots on the ground.
• 13:02
  Dr. Tambraia: And so that is, that's probably one of our, our most exciting adventures right now.
• 13:08
  Dr. Lolli: We know that building leaders are really key to making sure that we close the achievement gap, that we are using best instructional practices, that we're doing what we need to do for all students all the time.
• 13:21
  Dr. Tambraia: Yep.
• 13:22
  Dr. Lolli: What are the supports that are in place for, um, a principal, assistant principal, um, even a teacher leader- To help them understand literacy, what do I look for?
• 13:34
  Dr. Lolli: What should I see in the classroom?
• 13:37
  Dr. Lolli: What are those supports that are being provided?
• 13:39
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so right now we h- we have a couple of things.
• 13:41
  Dr. Tambraia: So, again, not to sound like a broken record, but our Science of Reading Pathways, we do have one that's specific for administrators, and, and that speaks exactly to what you're talking about.
• 13:52
  Dr. Tambraia: So it's really meant for building leaders to be able to understand what to look for, what supports teachers might need on a day-to-day basis, and how to provide that.
• 14:03
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, I think another thing that we have done at the state that is l- really lifting up the literacy work is the rollout of our new integrated multi-tiered system of supports framework, um, because that provides an excellent anchor for a lot of the work that we are already doing, and it, and it drives, I think most importantly, the role, uh, the critical role of data and de- in decision-making and using data, um, at all points along instruction.
• 14:30
  Dr. Tambraia: So it's not just to screen students, report it, and, and do whatever's next, but to really use data on a day-to-day basis for instruction.
• 14:38
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so I think one of the things that we're doing with that multi-tiered system of supports, the integrated MTSS, is, uh, to, to make it really usable and applicable for building leaders as well.
• 14:51
  Dr. Tambraia: And so th- there's a big role for them to play in that.
• 14:55
  Dr. Lolli: I know that the governor has created a new, uh, champion, um, program for, um, science of reading.
• 15:01
  Dr. Lolli: So it's- Yeah I believe it's called the Governor's, uh, Science of Reading Champion Program.
• 15:06
  Dr. Lolli: Yeah.
• 15:06
  Dr. Lolli: I think that's the correct title.
• 15:08
  Dr. Lolli: It is.
• 15:08
  Dr. Lolli: Um, can you tell me why that's important in this state, and can you tell me a little bit about what you've seen over the last few years whenever that, uh, since that program has been in place?
• 15:19
  Dr. Tambraia: Mm-hmm.
• 15:19
  Dr. Tambraia: Yeah, so we've done two rounds so far of, um, this application process.
• 15:24
  Dr. Tambraia: So it is an application process, and I think a lot of people don't always understand that.
• 15:28
  Dr. Tambraia: That we're, we are not going out and seeking these schools.
• 15:30
  Dr. Tambraia: We are asking them, um, to apply so that we can review their materials and recognize them for the work that they're doing.
• 15:38
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so, um, I think, I think that this initiative of the governor's is really important because it lifts up schools that maybe don't have the highest literacy proficiency ratings quite yet, but are doing the hard work.
• 15:56
  Dr. Tambraia: And it's really a celebration of implementation and practices and what schools are doing, and the processes that they have in place, and the ways that they support their educators.
• 16:07
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and so it's a very extensive application process.
• 16:10
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, we ask for a lot of documentation, so we're not just taking their word for it.
• 16:15
  Dr. Tambraia: We wanna, we wanna see all of the evidence behind what they are saying that they're doing.
• 16:20
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, and that is, that is what we're using to recognize these schools.
• 16:25
  Dr. Tambraia: Uh, so it's...
• 16:26
  Dr. Tambraia: I think, again, what I really like about it is that it, it recognizes schools for what, what they're doing right now and, and starting to see some progress for their students.
• 16:36
  Dr. Tambraia: And I think that's really important, to not just recognize the end goal, but the, the processes that are in place right now.
• 16:44
  Dr. Lolli: You know, I, I think about all the turnover that's happening in Ohio schools.
• 16:48
  Dr. Lolli: We have teachers that are leaving, going to other school districts, or teachers that are retiring.
• 16:53
  Dr. Lolli: We have administrators that are retiring at all levels.
• 16:57
  Dr. Lolli: Um, and we have this turnover that- Yeah occurs almost on a regular basis.
• 17:02
  Dr. Lolli: What do you suggest that a district do in order to make sure that their strong literacy program, the implementation that it's been in the past, and the strong results that they're getting, what do you suggest they do to make sure that they sustain that and to make sure that the students are being served?
• 17:21
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, so again, you know, I think that the, the integrated multi-tiered system of supports framework is going to be instrumental for helping schools to build sustainable systems within, whether, whether it's a community school or a district, um, because it really, again, is just about the way the data is used.
• 17:41
  Dr. Tambraia: And so the more documentation that schools and districts can, um, put into place, I think that that's really gonna make a big difference.
• 17:50
  Dr. Tambraia: I think also because we now have this, um, you know, list of high-quality instructional materials that must be used, there's more of an incentive to continue using those materials, um, and not, not to keep switching or to buy new things, um, but to really invest.
• 18:08
  Dr. Tambraia: They've already invested in it, now they've got it, and to really build their systems around how they're using those materials and the professional learning for teachers.
• 18:17
  Dr. Lolli: You know, I wanna thank you, first of all, for being with us, but I have one final question.
• 18:22
  Dr. Tambraia: Mm-hmm.
• 18:22
  Dr. Lolli: With all this work in literacy, what excites you most or gives you the most hope?
• 18:29
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, I think that what excites me most is that I, I feel like we're on the cus- we're on the cusp of a lot of change.
• 18:34
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, we've seen, you know, our student scores start to creep up a little bit in certain grade levels.
• 18:43
  Dr. Tambraia: Um, but I think that now that we've got really systems-level legislation in place, it's around materials, it's around learning, it's around, um, the multi-tiered system of supports.
• 18:56
  Dr. Tambraia: We've got much more structure and infrastructure in place, um, and I think we're gonna start to see the impact on our students and the educational system in the, in the next coming years.
• 19:08
  Dr. Tambraia: And so I'm, I'm excited for the data to be able to, to prove that I'm right about that.
• 19:13
  Dr. Lolli: Well, I wanna thank you for your time today.
• 19:14
  Dr. Lolli: I know the department is very busy.
• 19:17
  Dr. Lolli: Um, I know all of you are, are working, um, all the time to make sure that the new integrated MTSS is being rolled out appropriately and making sure that the literacy continues to be strong.
• 19:28
  Dr. Lolli: So I wanna thank you for taking the time to be with us today on the podcast.
• 19:31
  Dr. Tambraia: Thank you so much.
• 19:32
  Dr. Tambraia: I appreciate being here.
• 19:34
  Dr. Lolli: I'm Dr.
• 19:34
  Dr. Lolli: Elizabeth Lolli, and it's been a pleasure to have you with us.
• 19:38
  Dr. Lolli: If you found today's conversation valuable, be sure to subscribe and share with your colleagues.
• 19:43
  Dr. Lolli: For more leadership tools and professional learning resources, visit ohioleadership.org.
• 19:48
  Dr. Lolli: And until next time, keep leading with purpose.