Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #221 Jason Flom with Anthony Sims

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#221 Jason Flom with Anthony Sims · Wrongful Conviction

0:03
Speaker 1: On eighteenth, nineteen ninety eight, a woman named Rachel claims
0:06
Speaker 1: to have seen her neighbors Julius Graves and Charlie Winbush talking.
0:10
Speaker 1: Charleik was telling her fiance Graves about how a man
0:13
Speaker 1: named Lee run Chen, who worked at the Chinese restaurant
0:16
Speaker 1: up the block Mister Hinks, had touched her inappropriately. Graves
0:20
Speaker 1: replied that he would scare him. Later that day, Julius Graves,
0:25
Speaker 1: his fiance's cousin, and another younger friend had a few
0:28
Speaker 1: drinks with Graves's friend, Anthony Simms as they listened to
0:31
Speaker 1: music by Anthony's car. As the evening wrapped up, Graves
0:35
Speaker 1: asked Anthony to drive him down the block to mister Hinks.
0:39
Speaker 1: Oblivious to any issue with Chen, Anthony agreed. They went
0:42
Speaker 1: into the restaurant, when it is believed that Graves shot
0:45
Speaker 1: and killed Lee run Chen. In shock, Anthony fled alone
0:50
Speaker 1: while Graves and the two younger guys returned to Graves's apartment,
0:53
Speaker 1: wiped the gun clean, figured out where to stash it,
0:56
Speaker 1: and began to conjure up a story to deflect blame
0:58
Speaker 1: from Graves and on Anthony Simms. With Graves at a
1:02
Speaker 1: number of his friends and family supporting this phony narrative,
1:06
Speaker 1: investigators set their sights on Anthony. Only one witness came
1:10
Speaker 1: forward independently who was neither coerced nor friends and family
1:14
Speaker 1: of Julius Graves, Graves's neighbor Rachel, who was on the
1:18
Speaker 1: phone outside of mister Hins during the shooting and saw
1:21
Speaker 1: Graves running from the restaurant with a soft off shotgun
1:24
Speaker 1: in his hand. Yet her statement was ignored by investigators
1:28
Speaker 1: and hidden from the defense, and as a result, Anthony
1:32
Speaker 1: Simms continues to serve twenty five years to life. This
1:37
Speaker 1: is wrongful conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to wrongful
1:54
Speaker 1: conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me and today if you
1:57
Speaker 1: hear my voice, sounds sort of down. I mean, this
1:59
Speaker 1: is one of the most troubling wrongful conviction cases that
2:03
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in twenty eight years of doing this work,
2:07
Speaker 1: which is almost as long as Anthony Simms has been
2:10
Speaker 1: locked up for a crime he obviously didn't commit. First
2:15
Speaker 1: of all, I want to introduce the two attorneys who
2:18
Speaker 1: are so devoted to this case and to this man,
2:21
Speaker 1: Jonathan Hiles and Thomas Hoffman. Thank you both for being here.
2:25
Speaker 2: Thank you.
2:25
Speaker 3: Thank you for doing.
2:26
Speaker 1: This Jason, and now of course saving the best for last.
2:30
Speaker 1: And I'm just so sorry that you're here under these circumstances.
2:34
Speaker 1: But I'm honestly honored that you're here with us today
2:37
Speaker 1: on the podcast. So Anthony Simms, welcome to Rawful Conviction.
2:42
Speaker 1: And Anthony, of course, is now a forty five year
2:46
Speaker 1: old man, twenty four years into a twenty five to
2:48
Speaker 1: life sentence for a murder he didn't commit. Now, this
2:52
Speaker 1: began back in nineteen ninety eight, but I want to
2:56
Speaker 1: go back even further than that. Anthony, where did you
2:59
Speaker 1: grow up and what was your childhood like? Was it
3:02
Speaker 1: a happy childhood?
3:04
Speaker 2: Yes? I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, and I
3:07
Speaker 2: grow with a mother, father and my two older brothers,
3:10
Speaker 2: and we had was a very happy, loving family. We
3:13
Speaker 2: would do a lot of fun activity together, go on vacations.
3:16
Speaker 2: I remember every Sunday with family Day. Whatever thing we
3:19
Speaker 2: needed to do we had to do together as a family.
3:22
Speaker 1: And leading up to when this awful crime occurred, you
3:25
Speaker 1: had kids a Beyonce at that time. What was life
3:29
Speaker 1: like for you?
3:30
Speaker 2: I lived with that thought was a normal life. I
3:32
Speaker 2: worked for Bell Atlantic Telephone Company, and I was a
3:35
Speaker 2: field technician. I instill a phone lines and provided doubts
3:39
Speaker 2: on the customers. I live with my fiance Keisha and
3:41
Speaker 2: my two sons at the town and we would do
3:45
Speaker 2: a lot of family things together as a told of
3:47
Speaker 2: every family oriented, so we would go out to movies, parks, breakfast,
3:54
Speaker 2: ride everything. We would just do as much as we
3:56
Speaker 2: can possibly.
3:57
Speaker 1: So this brings us to May eighteenth, nineteen eighty, when you, Anthony,
4:01
Speaker 1: witnessed a terrible crime. There was a Chinese restaurant, Mister Hings,
4:05
Speaker 1: which was down the block from where your former friend
4:08
Speaker 1: Julius Grace lived, and around ten o'clock that night, a
4:12
Speaker 1: man named Lee Runschen, who worked at Mister Hings, was
4:15
Speaker 1: shot and killed. But earlier that day, before any of
4:18
Speaker 1: that happened, you thought you were just going to swing
4:21
Speaker 1: by Graves's apartment to show him this new car you
4:24
Speaker 1: bought your fiance Keisha.
4:26
Speaker 2: So this day I decided to Baja Kong. And Julius
4:29
Speaker 2: Graves was at that time my best friend, and of
4:32
Speaker 2: course because I bought the car, was happy. I wanted
4:36
Speaker 2: to show him the car, and I bought my wife
4:37
Speaker 2: to a process. So I drove to his house at
4:40
Speaker 2: that time. So during that time, he asked me to
4:43
Speaker 2: drive him to the liquor store. I drove him to
4:45
Speaker 2: the liquor store. I went to the regular store and
4:47
Speaker 2: bought some beer. We was talking. I was letting the
4:49
Speaker 2: music play from my car radio, and then his two
4:54
Speaker 2: friends came over, his fiance's cousin Derek and then later
4:58
Speaker 2: on his friend Louis, and they was listening to music
5:01
Speaker 2: with us. And I want to say, like around ten o'clock,
5:05
Speaker 2: it was getting late. I wanted to go home show
5:08
Speaker 2: my wife the cause and I wanted to be home
5:10
Speaker 2: with my sons. So during that time, Julius asked me
5:14
Speaker 2: to drive him to the Chinese restaurant. So I thought
5:16
Speaker 2: this is a weird request because he lived down around
5:20
Speaker 2: a corner from the restaurant, and I thought he could
5:22
Speaker 2: have just walked to the restaurant. So I said, I listen,
5:25
Speaker 2: I was drinking a couple of beers. Let me go
5:27
Speaker 2: to the door to buy some breastmans, because I don't
5:29
Speaker 2: like driving around like that. I remember, right before I
5:32
Speaker 2: decided to go to the store that did the rest
5:34
Speaker 2: means whatever? I remember Julius saying, listen, and I'm going
5:36
Speaker 2: to the house. I'm going to go check with Charlie,
5:38
Speaker 2: which is his girlfriend at the time, to see if
5:41
Speaker 2: she wanted anything from the store as well. So I said,
5:43
Speaker 2: all right, so I can only assume him that's the
5:45
Speaker 2: time that he got the weapon. And when I got
5:48
Speaker 2: back to my car, Julius was sitting in my passenger
5:50
Speaker 2: seat and his two little friends were sitting in the back.
5:55
Speaker 2: They know that I didn't expect him to be in
5:56
Speaker 2: a car because they looked at me with this look like,
5:59
Speaker 2: all right, but we're just going to go to this
6:01
Speaker 2: restaurant with you. So I didn't think nothing. I very
6:03
Speaker 2: I got in the car and I drove to the
6:04
Speaker 2: Chinese restaurant. When I got out the car, I looked
6:08
Speaker 2: back and I noticed they were still sitting in the car.
6:10
Speaker 2: So I was like, all right, come on, because I'm
6:12
Speaker 2: not driving your home from here. I'm going straight home
6:14
Speaker 2: because it was getting late, so I decided to proceed
6:16
Speaker 2: to the Chinese restaurant. When I got inside of the restaurant,
6:19
Speaker 2: I started looking around for the menus and stuff to
6:22
Speaker 2: see what I was going to purchase for my wife.
6:25
Speaker 2: The next thing I know, I saw Julius come in
6:26
Speaker 2: the store. With like a weird expression on his face,
6:30
Speaker 2: and almost immediately he reached him his fans and pulled
6:32
Speaker 2: out a soda sod gun and I remember thinking, like,
6:36
Speaker 2: what the hell was going on? And where did he
6:38
Speaker 2: even get that gun from? I asked, hm, I said,
6:40
Speaker 2: what the hell are you doing? Are you crazy, Julius
6:43
Speaker 2: sex He said no, approached the counter, pointed the gun
6:46
Speaker 2: at one of the workers and pulled the trigger. And
6:49
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. I fell to blood rush for
6:52
Speaker 2: my body. I was like shocked, and all I remember
6:57
Speaker 2: at that time just running out the store getting in
6:59
Speaker 2: my car. Julius jumped in in too it, and I
7:02
Speaker 2: said get out. I kicked everybody. I said, everybody get
7:05
Speaker 2: out of my car. And I drove home and told
7:08
Speaker 2: Keisha I happened. That was the worst night of my life.
7:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be the worst night of almost anyone's
7:16
Speaker 1: life to witness something like that.
7:17
Speaker 2: That night when I when I went home, I said,
7:20
Speaker 2: I can't believe it. I mean, I got home, I
7:23
Speaker 2: got on the phone and I called them and I said,
7:25
Speaker 2: what the hell is wrong with you? Probably cursed him,
7:28
Speaker 2: I said some other things to him that Basically, I
7:30
Speaker 2: want to know why did he put me in that situation?
7:32
Speaker 2: Why did he allow me to walk into that? Why
7:35
Speaker 2: didn't he tell me what was going on? Maybe he
7:37
Speaker 2: thought I would talk him out of it. I don't know,
7:39
Speaker 2: but he just kept apologizing. And that's when he told
7:43
Speaker 2: me that you know the person that he signed out.
7:45
Speaker 2: I can't believe it. And I said, Julius, don't ever
7:47
Speaker 2: call me again. I don't want to hear from you
7:49
Speaker 2: no more. I just wanted to try to separate my cellphone.
7:53
Speaker 4: So it turns out that Julius Graves had a motive,
7:58
Speaker 4: and that is that Graves was upset that mister Chen,
8:02
Speaker 4: who worked at the Chinese restaurant, had reportedly touched the
8:06
Speaker 4: hand of Graves's fiance Sharleek earlier in the day of
8:11
Speaker 4: the murder, that he had touched her hand inappropriately. She
8:15
Speaker 4: was upset about this, she told Graves, and Graves said
8:19
Speaker 4: that he would go to the restaurant and scare the victim.
8:23
Speaker 4: We know he did a lot more than that, but
8:25
Speaker 4: that appears to have been the motive that we didn't
8:28
Speaker 4: find out until many years later. Now, what was known
8:31
Speaker 4: at the time is that after the murder, after Anthony
8:35
Speaker 4: got Graves and his two friends, Derek Dollop and Louis Cologne,
8:38
Speaker 4: to leave the car. It is undisputed that Graves took
8:42
Speaker 4: the shotgun used in the murder, went back to the
8:45
Speaker 4: apartment where he was staying, feverishly wiped off the shotgun
8:49
Speaker 4: to get his fingerprints off of it, and then gave
8:52
Speaker 4: the gun to his friend Louis Cologne to hide from police.
8:56
Speaker 4: And Louis, by the way, was only fourteen years old
8:59
Speaker 4: at the time. Graves's excuse for doing this is that
9:03
Speaker 4: he wasn't thinking. That was his only justification for the
9:08
Speaker 4: fact that he took the murder weapon, wiped it off
9:10
Speaker 4: his fingerprints, and tried to hide it from police. Now, Furthermore,
9:14
Speaker 4: this murder weapon, the sawed off shotgun, had previously been
9:18
Speaker 4: kept in a lock box in the apartment where Graves
9:21
Speaker 4: was staying, and Graves and his friend Derek Dollop, who
9:26
Speaker 4: was also his fiance's cousin, admitted even that they knew
9:30
Speaker 4: the shotgun was kept there and had seen it there before.
9:33
Speaker 4: So all the evidence suggested that the shotgun belonged to Graves,
9:38
Speaker 4: and it is undisputed he had handled it right after
9:41
Speaker 4: the murder.
9:42
Speaker 1: Occurred, right and the physical evidence was seen later proved
9:46
Speaker 1: that this sawed off shotgun from Graves' apartment was used
9:49
Speaker 1: in the murder. So this is where we start seeing
9:52
Speaker 1: a narrative being formed from the Graves camp to try
9:56
Speaker 1: to deflect responsibility for this murder away from Graves and
9:59
Speaker 1: toward Anthony. And initially it will seem like a lot
10:03
Speaker 1: of witnesses came forward to support what was really just
10:07
Speaker 1: coming straight from Graves's imagination and what later became the
10:10
Speaker 1: prosecution's narrative. But it will become clear as we move
10:13
Speaker 1: along here that none of these witnesses were to be believed.
10:16
Speaker 1: They should have been believed for two reasons. One, it's
10:19
Speaker 1: discovered later that these eyewitness accounts are initially riddled with
10:24
Speaker 1: glaring inconsistencies and contradictions that were then changed to fit
10:28
Speaker 1: a cohesive narrative in time for trial, which is just
10:32
Speaker 1: not typical what a group of people are telling the
10:34
Speaker 1: truths obviously right. And two, most of the witnesses are
10:38
Speaker 1: friends and family of Graves. There are only two witnesses,
10:41
Speaker 1: two who are not Graves's friends or family, one of
10:44
Speaker 1: whom was coerced by police into an ambiguous statement that
10:48
Speaker 1: nonetheless helped the prosecution's case at the time of trial,
10:51
Speaker 1: and the other is the only independent witness who bravely
10:54
Speaker 1: came forward to tell the truth about Graves's motive and
10:57
Speaker 1: having seen him running from the restaurant with a gun. However,
11:01
Speaker 1: none of this info about these two witnesses was known
11:04
Speaker 1: to the defensive trial, but we'll get to that later. Now,
11:07
Speaker 1: Right now, let's focus on the dubious narrative coming from
11:11
Speaker 1: the Graves camp. So, the day after the murder, Sharleek's brother,
11:15
Speaker 1: William Robertson told police a second hand story from Sharleek
11:20
Speaker 1: that Sharleek had said that Anthony had come by earlier
11:23
Speaker 1: the day of the murder and taken the shotgun out
11:25
Speaker 1: of the apartment. Then comes the narrative from Graves about
11:28
Speaker 1: the night of the murder. Okay, ready, So, according to Graves,
11:32
Speaker 1: Anthony dropped by the apartment around six pm and they
11:35
Speaker 1: had a few drinks. Anthony allegedly showed Graves a shotgun
11:39
Speaker 1: that he had in his trunk, a shotgun that Graves
11:41
Speaker 1: should have recognized as the one from his apartment, as
11:44
Speaker 1: Jonathan just said that Graves had admitted. Now, at some
11:48
Speaker 1: point Anthony and Graves are joined by Sharleek's cousin Derek
11:52
Speaker 1: Dallup and another younger friend, Luis Cologne. According to Graves,
11:57
Speaker 1: Anthony had a previous altercation with the victim, Lee run Chen,
12:01
Speaker 1: who worked at the Chinese restaurant down the block, Mister Hings.
12:05
Speaker 1: The reason behind this disagreement and the timing changed between
12:09
Speaker 1: initial interviews and trial. In this farcical version of events,
12:14
Speaker 1: Anthony allegedly had refused to pay for something at Mister
12:17
Speaker 1: Hings because it was either something he hadn't ordered, or
12:20
Speaker 1: some chicken was undercooked, or it didn't look right. You know,
12:24
Speaker 1: lying is tricky that way, right, It gets hard to
12:27
Speaker 1: keep track of your own bullshit. Anyway, At the time
12:31
Speaker 1: of this alleged problem and refusal of payment, Lee run
12:34
Speaker 1: Chen allegedly pulled a gun on Anthony, to which Anthony
12:38
Speaker 1: allegedly responded that he would get Chen for this. So
12:42
Speaker 1: this patently ridiculous and poorly written story is what established
12:47
Speaker 1: Anthony's alleged motive to murder Lee run Chen. According to Graves,
12:52
Speaker 1: that night in the lead up to the murder, Anthony
12:55
Speaker 1: brought up this two to three week old and then
12:57
Speaker 1: later four to five month old several times and was
13:02
Speaker 1: getting heated up about it before they headed to mister Hings,
13:05
Speaker 1: where Anthony was the one who allegedly shot Lee run Chen,
13:09
Speaker 1: not Graves, whose fiance had complained to him about Chen's
13:13
Speaker 1: inappropriate touching earlier that day. So this just super believable
13:18
Speaker 1: narrative is what became the prosecution's theory.
13:21
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to say at this point,
13:23
Speaker 2: but it just feels liberated to hear you retell that
13:27
Speaker 2: story because it sounded crazy to me, and from you
13:30
Speaker 2: saying how craze it sounds to you, that means a
13:32
Speaker 2: lot because I've always believed down the line that the
13:35
Speaker 2: truth was going to come out and the truth was
13:37
Speaker 2: going to set me free. I didn't know that it
13:39
Speaker 2: would be in prison twenty three years before this truth came.
13:42
Speaker 1: Out, and it's going to be out there now finally
13:45
Speaker 1: for everyone to hear, to shine a much needed light
13:48
Speaker 1: on this terrible and tragic injustice. There are a lot
13:52
Speaker 1: of good people working on your behalf right now, not
13:55
Speaker 1: least of which, of course, are your lawyers and Jonathan.
13:58
Speaker 1: There's even more than about Graves's ridiculous narrative.
14:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the chronology of how the investigation unfolded,
14:07
Speaker 4: which Jason, you've sort of given that it was Graves
14:11
Speaker 4: trying to divert attention from himself, his friends, and his family,
14:15
Speaker 4: and that's why the murder got pinned on Anthony, because
14:18
Speaker 4: the case against Graves was so overwhelming that there had
14:22
Speaker 4: to be a scapegoat, and the story against Anthony was
14:26
Speaker 4: not only ridiculous, but as he alluded to, it was
14:30
Speaker 4: so inconsistent. Graves first actually told police Anthony and Graves's
14:36
Speaker 4: other two friends had gone to the Chinese restaurant earlier
14:39
Speaker 4: on that evening and then come back and Anthony was
14:42
Speaker 4: heated about an argument with the victim. But Graves's two
14:46
Speaker 4: friends never said they went to the Chinese restaurant. It
14:49
Speaker 4: was just made up. So Graves had to change his
14:51
Speaker 4: story and say that he had witnessed an argument between
14:54
Speaker 4: Anthony and the victim months earlier over a food order,
14:58
Speaker 4: and that Anthony was still fuming about this months later
15:02
Speaker 4: on the night of the murder. Again, Graves's friends right,
15:05
Speaker 4: who were trying to back him up. They never said
15:08
Speaker 4: that Anthony had any beef with a victim or was
15:10
Speaker 4: fuming about it in the car that evening. So the
15:13
Speaker 4: story never really made sense, But what was important to
15:17
Speaker 4: police and prosecutors, unfortunately, was clearing the case. And once
15:22
Speaker 4: they had Graves and his two friends who were willing
15:26
Speaker 4: to point the finger at Anthony as a scapegoat, the
15:30
Speaker 4: train had left the station.
15:32
Speaker 1: Okay, so they've got their site set on you, Anthony.
15:34
Speaker 1: And initially they show up at your job, but you
15:37
Speaker 1: were out that day. This tipped you off though that
15:39
Speaker 1: they were at least looking to talk to you, and
15:41
Speaker 1: eventually you went involuntarily. I mean, you were an innocent man.
15:45
Speaker 1: So did you think, well, I'll just go in there,
15:48
Speaker 1: clear this up and head on home.
15:50
Speaker 2: I did, And a big key as we left out
15:53
Speaker 2: was there was a camera inside of that restaurant, so
15:56
Speaker 2: I thought, regardless that somebody would at one point in
15:59
Speaker 2: Tom reviewed it, and then I had nothing to worry
16:02
Speaker 2: about the tape with clear everything up for me. So yes,
16:05
Speaker 2: I drove myself to the precinct. And that's why it's
16:08
Speaker 2: been ever since knocked away.
16:10
Speaker 1: You never walked out of there again, never walked out.
16:13
Speaker 1: Now what happened with the videotape from the Chinese restaurant?
16:18
Speaker 2: They said that the tape wasn't recording.
16:21
Speaker 1: Do you believe that?
16:22
Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't know what to believe anymore.
16:24
Speaker 2: I used to have a lot of faith in the
16:26
Speaker 2: condicial system, but from being a cross rated myself and
16:30
Speaker 2: listening to some of the other Harves stories from people
16:32
Speaker 2: in here with me, I don't know what to believe now.
16:49
Speaker 4: They had their man, and any other evidence that existed
16:54
Speaker 4: then were emerged later that suggested Anthony was innocent or
16:59
Speaker 4: that Graves was guilty was just an inconvenience to the
17:03
Speaker 4: prosecution's case, and so it was not disclosed to the defense.
17:08
Speaker 1: And of course listeners of this show will know that
17:10
Speaker 1: when the authorities withhold exculpatory evidence, it's called a Brady violation.
17:14
Speaker 1: Brady violations are illegal, but as our listeners also know,
17:18
Speaker 1: Brady violations rarely seemed to bring any actual ramifications for
17:23
Speaker 1: the people who commit them, so it just keeps fucking
17:26
Speaker 1: happening in case after case, And in this case, I
17:29
Speaker 1: believe the worst Brady violation, the worst one among so many,
17:32
Speaker 1: is the sole independent witness who came forward in this
17:35
Speaker 1: case that I alluded to earlier, whose statement was hidden
17:38
Speaker 1: from the defense. Will refer to her only as Rachel.
17:42
Speaker 4: So Rachel was right outside the Chinese restaurant where the
17:46
Speaker 4: murder occurred, talking on a pay phone. This was an
17:49
Speaker 4: undisputed fact, and police spoke to her, and initially she
17:54
Speaker 4: said that she had heard the shot and seen people
17:58
Speaker 4: running from the Chinese restaurant, but she didn't have her
18:01
Speaker 4: contacts in and so she couldn't identify who those people were.
18:05
Speaker 2: That was what she said.
18:07
Speaker 4: Now, this was not a neighborhood where it was easy
18:11
Speaker 4: to report to police who you had seen involved in
18:14
Speaker 4: a murder, much less if that person was your neighbor.
18:17
Speaker 4: And actually Rachel, who was seventeen at the time, she
18:20
Speaker 4: was neighbors with Julius Graves. Now, a couple of weeks
18:24
Speaker 4: went by and Rachel had kept this information to herself,
18:29
Speaker 4: but her conscience was gnawing away at her. She learned
18:33
Speaker 4: that Anthony had been wrongfully arrested for the crime, and
18:37
Speaker 4: she actually received a call from Anthony's wife at the time, Keisha,
18:43
Speaker 4: who said to Rachel, I hear you were present at
18:46
Speaker 4: the scene and that you may have seen something. Please
18:49
Speaker 4: just talk to police, tell them what you saw, whatever
18:52
Speaker 4: you saw, Please just tell them the truth. Now, at
18:55
Speaker 4: around the same time, Rachel actually had an exchange with
19:00
Speaker 4: Graves and his fiance outside of their brownstone. During that exchange,
19:05
Speaker 4: there was an argument and Rachel said, you know, I
19:09
Speaker 4: know what you did. I saw what you did, and
19:12
Speaker 4: what had she seen? In truth, she had seen Julius Graves,
19:16
Speaker 4: her neighbor, running from the Chinese restaurant with a shotgun
19:20
Speaker 4: right after the shot was fired, so she knew that
19:23
Speaker 4: he had run off with a weapon and was likely
19:26
Speaker 4: the killer. And she said, I know what you did,
19:28
Speaker 4: and you're trying to put it on somebody else. And
19:31
Speaker 4: Graves said, you talk too much, and if you keep talking,
19:35
Speaker 4: I'm going to shut you up. And Rachel was terrified,
19:41
Speaker 4: but she was also angry at what was happening and
19:45
Speaker 4: at the injustice and also at the way Graves was
19:48
Speaker 4: talking to her, and so she called police. Spoke to
19:52
Speaker 4: a detective and she said, I saw Julius Graves running
19:56
Speaker 4: from the Chinese restaurant with a big, long gun. I
19:59
Speaker 4: know it was him. He's my neighbor. And the detective said,
20:04
Speaker 4: we already have another guy. It was the taller guy.
20:07
Speaker 4: Anthony is six', Three graves is five to. Nine rachel, said,
20:10
Speaker 4: NO i, know they look completely. DIFFERENT i know that
20:14
Speaker 4: it Was graves who was running with a, shotgun and
20:16
Speaker 4: the detective basically, said, well thank you for your time
20:19
Speaker 4: and hung up the. Phone they had already Arrested anthony
20:23
Speaker 4: and decided he was the guy they were going to
20:25
Speaker 4: pin the murder.
20:26
Speaker 3: On Shaw leek had anticipated That rachel could go to the.
20:30
Speaker 3: Police so Shaw leek reports That rachel said That graves
20:35
Speaker 3: had committed the murder and she spun that as. Harassment
20:39
Speaker 3: that was a written. Report they had that. Report but
20:43
Speaker 3: IF i can complete that, incredibly even Though rachel lived
20:47
Speaker 3: next door To, charlie they did not Question rachel at
20:52
Speaker 3: all about that police. Report they didn't go up knock
20:57
Speaker 3: on the door and say is this?
20:58
Speaker 1: True have to go across the country to interview, somebody
21:02
Speaker 1: or across the, state right to go across the, street
21:06
Speaker 1: across the street somebody who actually had begged to be,
21:10
Speaker 1: interviewed right, who even though she had been threatened by
21:14
Speaker 1: a really dangerous, guy was, like, No i'm going to
21:17
Speaker 1: do the right thing as someone we could be proud,
21:19
Speaker 1: of you know that comes forward in a situation like.
21:23
Speaker 1: This but instead she just got shut down by those
21:26
Speaker 1: who are supposed to protect, us which Left graves out
21:30
Speaker 1: on the streets to potentially commit more violent, crimes While
21:33
Speaker 1: anthony was stripped of his freedom and civil. Rights so
21:36
Speaker 1: back to this. Investigation if you want to call it,
21:39
Speaker 1: that the grandmother Of graves's, children you, know Char leak's
21:42
Speaker 1: mom signs on to parrot some of the. Narrative this
21:46
Speaker 1: Is Dorothy, bolding whose story changed from her initial interview
21:50
Speaker 1: when she didn't Mention Anthony graves or even having been
21:54
Speaker 1: at Mister hings at. All this interview critical information here
22:00
Speaker 1: hidden from the, defense and by the time the grand
22:02
Speaker 1: jury and the trial roll, around she's changed her, story
22:06
Speaker 1: now claiming to be able to Implicate anthony in the.
22:09
Speaker 1: Murder but still the investigators needed to get someone outside
22:14
Speaker 1: Of graves's inner circle in order to strengthen the. Case
22:17
Speaker 1: and AS i alluded to, earlier this is the only
22:20
Speaker 1: other witness Besides rachel who was not directly related To.
22:23
Speaker 1: Graves she was a single mom who certainly appears to
22:27
Speaker 1: have been coerced into giving an ambiguous statement that helped
22:31
Speaker 1: the prosecution's case a, trial and will refer to this
22:34
Speaker 1: witness As.
22:35
Speaker 4: Shalima Now, shalima as we have since, learned she initially
22:40
Speaker 4: told police that, she when visiting her friend's apartment across
22:44
Speaker 4: the street from the, murder had heard this loud, bang
22:47
Speaker 4: had looked out the window across the street from a
22:50
Speaker 4: second floor on a dark, night and had seen a
22:54
Speaker 4: couple of men ran out of The chinese, restaurant but
22:57
Speaker 4: she couldn't describe them at. All it seemed that one
23:00
Speaker 4: of them appeared to be holding a long, gun but
23:02
Speaker 4: she couldn't make any sort of description because it was
23:06
Speaker 4: dark and it was a very fleeting. Observation and they, said,
23:09
Speaker 4: well let's take you in and see if we can
23:12
Speaker 4: refresh your. Memory they took her, in they separated her
23:15
Speaker 4: from her young, child and they interrogated her for hours
23:20
Speaker 4: and intimidated her and wouldn't tell her where her child,
23:24
Speaker 4: was which she kept, Asking and then eventually they emerged
23:28
Speaker 4: with a report saying that she identified the taller man
23:32
Speaker 4: as being the one holding the, gun which was something
23:35
Speaker 4: that was clearly fed to her because she told police
23:38
Speaker 4: that she couldn't describe the men she had, seen including
23:42
Speaker 4: the person who was running with the. Gun we first
23:44
Speaker 4: learned that in the past. Year shalima, SAID i don't
23:48
Speaker 4: know HOW i could have testified THAT i saw the
23:51
Speaker 4: taller man running with the. SHOTGUN i couldn't have made a,
23:54
Speaker 4: description and that's WHAT i told, Detectives and their response
23:59
Speaker 4: was to take me in for basically a full day of,
24:03
Speaker 4: interrogation separated from my, child until they had pressured her
24:08
Speaker 4: to give them what they. Wanted and so the prosecution
24:12
Speaker 4: really leaned on her with this made up story that
24:15
Speaker 4: they sort of force fed her because she was the
24:18
Speaker 4: only witness who wasn't totally biased in favor Of.
24:22
Speaker 1: Graves, right so now they finally had someone as shaky
24:25
Speaker 1: as this idea was to corroborate what The graves camp was.
24:28
Speaker 1: Saying So july, second nineteen ninety, eight they charged, You,
24:32
Speaker 1: anthony with two counts of murder in the second degree
24:35
Speaker 1: intentional and depraved, indifference and one count of criminal possession
24:38
Speaker 1: of a weapon in the fourth, degree a weapon that
24:41
Speaker 1: you had never even held in your, Hand and before
24:44
Speaker 1: trial even began In april nineteen ninety, Nine graves attempted to.
24:49
Speaker 4: Disappear graves didn't want to. Testify he wanted to get
24:54
Speaker 4: himself off of the, hook but even he perhaps had
24:57
Speaker 4: some pangs of conscience about falsely implicating someone who had
25:02
Speaker 4: formerly been his, friend and so he went underground before
25:07
Speaker 4: the trials, started and he was on probation at the,
25:10
Speaker 4: time actually on a weapons possession, charge and he hadn't
25:14
Speaker 4: been reporting to his probation officer for three, years and
25:18
Speaker 4: so The District attorney's office actually initiated proceedings to Revoke
25:23
Speaker 4: graves's probation so that he would be remanded to prison,
25:27
Speaker 4: Potentially and in the, Meantime graves went into hiding because
25:31
Speaker 4: he didn't want to participate in the prosecution's, case which,
25:35
Speaker 4: was as you, Said, jason a made up case that
25:39
Speaker 4: was based On graves's own.
25:40
Speaker 1: Lives this one's really. MYSTIFYING i, mean you have a
25:43
Speaker 1: guy who has a propensity to, violence who knows his
25:46
Speaker 1: way around with, weapons who was a possession of the,
25:48
Speaker 1: gun who had a previous weapons, violation and it's, like,
25:51
Speaker 1: yeah now we're just going to ignore.
25:53
Speaker 3: That julius was asked, directly have you reported to your
25:58
Speaker 3: probation officer often and? Regularly he answered yes when he
26:02
Speaker 3: hadn't reported for three, years and that why was not,
26:06
Speaker 3: Corrected and clearly the credibility Of graves was. Critical we
26:11
Speaker 3: did not know that he had not reported till last.
26:14
Speaker 1: Year So at, trial the state Presented shalima along With
26:18
Speaker 1: graves's cadre of liars Right graves, himself of, course and
26:23
Speaker 1: this fiance's Cousin Derek, dallap his Friend Louis, cologne and
26:27
Speaker 1: the grandmother Of graves's two, Children Dorothy. Bolding Now bolding's
26:32
Speaker 1: story changed. Twice in her initial, interview she didn't mention Seeing,
26:36
Speaker 1: Graves anthony or even having been At Mister, Hings and
26:41
Speaker 1: then at the grand jury she testified that while drinking
26:44
Speaker 1: outside Of Mister hings she Saw anthony enter with a
26:48
Speaker 1: long gun and heard a shot fired Before graves entered the.
26:52
Speaker 1: Restaurant then at, TRIAL i don't, know maybe she had
26:55
Speaker 1: some pangs of conscience either, way, though she testified that
26:59
Speaker 1: Shew anthony go, in followed By, graves then heard a
27:04
Speaker 1: gunshot but never saw a.
27:06
Speaker 4: Gun Miss bolding for initial report would have really discredit
27:10
Speaker 4: her as a prosecution witness was not. Disclosed also not
27:14
Speaker 4: disclosed or bias given her relation To Julius.
27:17
Speaker 1: Graves, okay so now There's. Shalima she also testified against, You.
27:22
Speaker 1: Anthony she said that on the night of the, shooting
27:24
Speaker 1: she was visiting a friend who lived on the second
27:27
Speaker 1: floor in an apartment across the street from Mister. Hings
27:30
Speaker 1: she said that she heard a gunshot and looked out
27:33
Speaker 1: the window to see two black men running from the,
27:35
Speaker 1: restaurant and that, quote the taller guy had a.
27:39
Speaker 4: Gun this was helpful for the prosecution Because anthony was
27:44
Speaker 4: taller Than. Graves, Now salima did not Identify. Anthony the
27:48
Speaker 4: prosecutor tried to get her to Identify. Anthony you, know
27:52
Speaker 4: look around the. Courtroom is the person you saw running
27:55
Speaker 4: with the gun? Here she, SAID i don't, KNOW i can't.
27:58
Speaker 4: Say and also she testified that of the two men
28:01
Speaker 4: she saw, running it was the person who was running,
28:04
Speaker 4: second who was behind who was running with the. Shotgun
28:07
Speaker 4: graves testified that he was running, second that he was Behind.
28:12
Speaker 4: Anthony so actually her testimony was very, ambiguous but it
28:17
Speaker 4: was really the only thing the prosecution had that came
28:21
Speaker 4: outside Of graves's inner. Circle and as a, result the
28:24
Speaker 4: failure to disclose What shalima had told detectives from the
28:29
Speaker 4: beginning that she couldn't describe anything was a very Damaging
28:32
Speaker 4: brady violation For anthony's.
28:34
Speaker 1: Defense was there any real defense mounted in your, Case? Anthony, On, no.
28:44
Speaker 2: We didn't even call any witnesses on, behalf although as
28:46
Speaker 2: my lawyer cannot, Testify and he, said, no what rightful
28:51
Speaker 2: person would just sit there and listen to people say
28:53
Speaker 2: certain things about him and not defend, Himself like he
28:57
Speaker 2: was really confident that there was no need for them
29:01
Speaker 2: because the case was a weak case and they eventually
29:05
Speaker 2: be able to, say you, Know julia did or, whatever
29:07
Speaker 2: and that was. That SO i didn't really have a.
29:10
Speaker 1: Defense so after hearing From graves's network of liars And
29:14
Speaker 1: shalema's ambiguous, testimony and then importantly the absence Of, rachel
29:19
Speaker 1: did you still hold out any hope at all that
29:22
Speaker 1: you'd be?
29:22
Speaker 2: VINDICATED i did only because it was a time during
29:26
Speaker 2: the deliberations or the jury came back into the court
29:30
Speaker 2: room and they passed to note the sitting with, deadline
29:34
Speaker 2: and the jet, said, well, Listen i'm going to give
29:36
Speaker 2: you a brief allent. Charge it was almost like a
29:38
Speaker 2: kangaroo court because he was basically, saying, WELL i don't
29:42
Speaker 2: know what the problem. Is it's not like he's facing
29:43
Speaker 2: the death. Money go give me a. Verdict and they
29:46
Speaker 2: needed some, rebacks some courts and, stuff AND i looked
29:50
Speaker 2: at my lawyer at that, point AND i was. MAD i, said,
29:53
Speaker 2: well maybe IF i, testified maybe it would have been,
29:56
Speaker 2: Different maybe you wouldn't be at this, point but to
29:59
Speaker 2: answer a, question AND i was still, hopeful although hope
30:03
Speaker 2: was slipping away at that.
30:04
Speaker 1: Point but they came back and found you. Guilty what
30:08
Speaker 1: was that moment was that if you can just take
30:10
Speaker 1: us inside that courtroom and inside your mind and your.
30:13
Speaker 1: Soul at that, MOMENT.
30:18
Speaker 2: I was, shocked, CONFUSED i was, hurt, devastated. NAUSEOUS i,
30:25
Speaker 2: MEAN i was. ANGRY i remember trying to stand, up
30:28
Speaker 2: BUT i didn't have any feeling in my lady because
30:30
Speaker 2: it's so. Weak, ironically what was going through my mind
30:34
Speaker 2: at that point was my son's because they were so,
30:37
Speaker 2: young and every NIGHT i would tell them crazy bedtime,
30:40
Speaker 2: stories either one THAT i read from a book OR
30:43
Speaker 2: i used to make up some. Stories and he looked
30:45
Speaker 2: forward to going to sleep just ABOUT i could come
30:47
Speaker 2: in the room and telling them. Stories AND i said to,
30:50
Speaker 2: Myself i'm not going to be able to do that
30:52
Speaker 2: for a.
30:52
Speaker 5: While as you can.
31:11
Speaker 2: Imagine for the first couple of, YEARS i was very.
31:13
Speaker 2: BETTER i WAS i was, MAD i was, angry AND
31:19
Speaker 2: i was almost like a Walking, tommie so to. SPEAK i,
31:22
Speaker 2: MEAN i was always trying to do programs and stuff
31:27
Speaker 2: and trying to help myself and help other people as,
31:29
Speaker 2: well but INSIDE i was really messed. Up AND i
31:33
Speaker 2: remember going on the visit one day and my, son
31:37
Speaker 2: Little Anthony, junior WHICH i loved to die of both my,
31:39
Speaker 2: sons he was. Crying he just broke out one day
31:43
Speaker 2: crying on a visit and he, Said, daddy don't, Worry
31:46
Speaker 2: i'm Gonna i'm gonna Get julius to doing this to,
31:48
Speaker 2: you because he had known at that Point julias as
31:52
Speaker 2: his uncle because we were so. Close AND i looked
31:57
Speaker 2: at him AND i, said, No, anthony don't don't ever
32:00
Speaker 2: say that. AGAIN i, SAID i don't ever say. That,
32:02
Speaker 2: No AND i was basically letting them know that the
32:05
Speaker 2: law will mentally prevail and there to work it self.
32:07
Speaker 2: Out and in the same tids he looked at me
32:10
Speaker 2: and he, says, well And, dad and you got to
32:12
Speaker 2: promise me that you would never do anything to him
32:14
Speaker 2: Linger AND i, SAID i. WON'T i promise you. That
32:19
Speaker 2: and it was that point THAT i forgave you is
32:22
Speaker 2: AND i continue to live my life as a life
32:24
Speaker 2: giver for, them but also trying to help any and
32:28
Speaker 2: everybody out because in a sense helping me as. Well
32:31
Speaker 2: but that was my turning. Point that's WHEN i forgave
32:34
Speaker 2: him for doing what he.
32:34
Speaker 1: Did, wow sounds like you did a hell of a,
32:39
Speaker 1: job even in the brief time you have with your,
32:41
Speaker 1: sons raising them and teaching them.
32:43
Speaker 2: Right, unfortunately prison has a way to divis, families as
32:47
Speaker 2: you can only. Imagine so my son's, mother which is
32:51
Speaker 2: my wife at the, town her name is Also, keisher
32:54
Speaker 2: this PRISON vi became too much for her for, us
32:57
Speaker 2: and it felt LIKE i was holding her back from
32:59
Speaker 2: living her. Life so we both came to the agreement
33:02
Speaker 2: that we should just divorce and sipara so that she
33:05
Speaker 2: can live the life of the speak And god always
33:09
Speaker 2: has a way of making things. Happen but my wife,
33:13
Speaker 2: today which is also Named, keisha it is my junior
33:17
Speaker 2: high school. Girlfriend she was my cheerleader WHEN i was
33:20
Speaker 2: the captain of the basketball. Team So jesus started to
33:24
Speaker 2: write me and one thing turned into. Another all of
33:28
Speaker 2: the old films came back and we decided to try
33:31
Speaker 2: one more time and get. Married and that was probably
33:34
Speaker 2: the best decision of my.
33:36
Speaker 6: Life my name Is Keisha, simms AND i Am Anthony simms's,
33:40
Speaker 6: wife and it is it's the best decision that we've
33:45
Speaker 6: ever made That i've ever. Made anthony AND i, were you,
33:49
Speaker 6: know junior high school. Sweethearts you, know people in the
33:52
Speaker 6: situation always think that the people in, prison you, know
33:55
Speaker 6: they should be grateful that someone they's just type to
33:57
Speaker 6: commitment to them under these. Circumstances but for, Me anthony
34:01
Speaker 6: has brought just so much to my. Life he hasn't
34:04
Speaker 6: riched my life so. Much i've grown so much as
34:06
Speaker 6: a person because of. Him this situation in particular has
34:10
Speaker 6: made me, stronger and So i'm just grateful that he
34:15
Speaker 6: chose me to go on this journey with him and
34:17
Speaker 6: to fight for his.
34:18
Speaker 2: Innocence one, DAY i was reading the newspaper from a
34:22
Speaker 2: friend of mine Named Kevin. Jenkins he asked me to
34:24
Speaker 2: read this article because the articles involved the person that
34:27
Speaker 2: we both knew From greenhaviors AND Vnue. Cooper kevin suggested
34:31
Speaker 2: THAT i try to get in touch With Tom, hoffman
34:34
Speaker 2: the lawyer got this guy. Out SO i talked to
34:38
Speaker 2: my wife and she said that night it was all
34:40
Speaker 2: for her to sleep because she worked around a lot of.
34:42
Speaker 2: Lawyers she knew that she only had one shot at
34:44
Speaker 2: this and she was making a little bullet. Points she
34:47
Speaker 2: was rehearsing what she would saying because she knew that
34:49
Speaker 2: it was really important to Obtain Thomas. Houseman she. Said
34:53
Speaker 2: the first Thing tom wanted to know was was he,
34:54
Speaker 2: anything because he would not represent anybody who was not.
34:57
Speaker 2: Innocent and, keithas, oh yes he, is But i'm going
35:01
Speaker 2: to change some information so that you can see it for.
35:03
Speaker 6: Yourself at that, POINT i had all Of anthony's legal
35:08
Speaker 6: work because his son had kept all of his, documentation
35:12
Speaker 6: and he, said, well send me everything that you. Have
35:15
Speaker 6: So i'm working from. Home ALL i have is An
35:18
Speaker 6: adobe scanned app on my phone which can only scan
35:23
Speaker 6: one page at a. Time one Of anthony's transcripts is
35:27
Speaker 6: four hundred and some are. Pages that's just only one.
35:30
Speaker 6: Transcript AND i did that for, days you, know trying
35:34
Speaker 6: to get all the information to. Him and he saw
35:37
Speaker 6: all of the, discrepancies you, know and all the violations
35:40
Speaker 6: and things that we had always. Seen tom knew That
35:45
Speaker 6: anthony was, innocent and it was just astounding evidence.
35:48
Speaker 5: To support that in the rest of.
35:51
Speaker 2: HISTORY i Got Tom hofford and hand can have doing
35:54
Speaker 2: my case For, bono And i've never had lawyer's work
35:58
Speaker 2: as hard as they.
35:59
Speaker 1: Were it's an amazing, STORY i, mean a tale Of
36:03
Speaker 1: tukeisha's which eventually resulted in these two, attorneys which of
36:08
Speaker 1: course brings us to the post conviction. Litigation and it
36:10
Speaker 1: looks like before you both got, involved there were some
36:13
Speaker 1: filing surrounding an inappropriate remark by the, prosecutor ineffective assistant,
36:19
Speaker 1: claims trial court, errors discriminatory jury, challenges all of which
36:24
Speaker 1: were serious points but ultimately. Failed there was some new,
36:28
Speaker 1: evidence a recantation of trial testimony From. Graves we know
36:32
Speaker 1: he was feeling remorseful for Throwing anthony under the, bus
36:35
Speaker 1: but he didn't want to come. Clean so THIS Affi
36:38
Speaker 1: david really is reflective of, that meaning he doesn't tell
36:42
Speaker 1: the whole. Truths he basically says That anthony went inside
36:45
Speaker 1: Mister hings and, He Julius, graves did. Not he continued
36:50
Speaker 1: that he didn't see who Shot chen and was coerced
36:53
Speaker 1: to testify that he had Seen anthony do. It so
36:57
Speaker 1: it takes the onus off Of, anthony but it's definitely
37:00
Speaker 1: not the exonerating evidence that one would hope for as
37:04
Speaker 1: or the other filings in.
37:05
Speaker 4: This, case everything that sort of happened in those initial
37:09
Speaker 4: post trial proceedings was sort of skirmishes around secondary, issues
37:14
Speaker 4: which unfortunately is often the best you can do for
37:17
Speaker 4: a convicted person until you get A Tom hoffman to
37:20
Speaker 4: fully reinvestigate the case like a.
37:23
Speaker 1: Detective right Without, tom we wouldn't know the context Around shalima's,
37:27
Speaker 1: testimony which is what passed for a corroborating witness For
37:30
Speaker 1: graves and his whole network of. LIARS i, mean it
37:33
Speaker 1: wasn't corroborating testimony at, all but misleading or even pointing
37:38
Speaker 1: To graves's. Guilt and then the Major brady violation in
37:41
Speaker 1: Hiding rachel for all of these. Years remember she Witnessed
37:45
Speaker 1: charlick And graves talking about the inappropriate touching which established
37:48
Speaker 1: the motive she Saw graves running from Mister hinges with the.
37:53
Speaker 1: Gun then when she Confronted charleick And, graves she was,
37:57
Speaker 1: threatened you talk too, much you Keep i'm gonna shut you,
38:01
Speaker 1: up was the, quote not to even mention of the
38:04
Speaker 1: previously unknown or ignored holes and shifts And graves's. Narrative and,
38:07
Speaker 1: finally we haven't even talked about this, yet but there
38:11
Speaker 1: was a cook at Mister hings who had a view
38:13
Speaker 1: of the shooter and described his complexion as quote not.
38:16
Speaker 1: Black this is consistent With graves's light brown, skin While
38:22
Speaker 1: anthony importantly has a dark. Complexion, So, tom what is
38:27
Speaker 1: being done with all of the e sculpatory evidence that you've.
38:29
Speaker 3: Compiled the four point forty was initially filed In, december
38:34
Speaker 3: and we Attached rachel's AffA David shalima's. Statement both of
38:39
Speaker 3: those statements were recorded from beginning to, end all all to.
38:42
Speaker 3: Goodbye we also found this documentation That graves had lied
38:48
Speaker 3: about reporting to his probation officer often and. Regularly we
38:52
Speaker 3: also found Additional brady, violations and as the case was,
38:57
Speaker 3: proceeding we then get even more documents From, foil including
39:02
Speaker 3: That graves on the day of his, testimony received, money
39:06
Speaker 3: received housing together with his, girlfriend his girlfriend's, brother and
39:11
Speaker 3: the brother's, girlfriend and then he eventually gets twenty five
39:16
Speaker 3: thousand dollars in. Benefits all this comes, out so we
39:20
Speaker 3: then amend our. Petition we also found out That cologne
39:24
Speaker 3: had told one of his friends that it was his
39:28
Speaker 3: friend who committed the. Shooting, well his friend Was Julius
39:33
Speaker 3: graves that was only recently, ascertained as with, others AND
39:38
Speaker 3: i should say look the current four forty eighty as
39:42
Speaker 3: in their, response they did not address any of our.
39:46
Speaker 3: Allegations Did Julius graves lie or did he not?
39:49
Speaker 5: Lie not?
39:50
Speaker 3: Addressed they said you could have a. Hearing, well the
39:54
Speaker 3: hearing's gonna take quite a, while And anthony should be home.
39:59
Speaker 3: Now his children are now twenty seven and twenty, eight
40:03
Speaker 3: his father recently suffered a. Stroke his eighty eight year
40:07
Speaker 3: old grandmother wants to see her grandson before she. Dies
40:11
Speaker 3: the evidence is. Overwhelming anthony should not have to wait any.
40:16
Speaker 3: Longer the resistance on undoing a wrongful conviction is.
40:21
Speaker 1: Youth, yeah, absolutely it is even under normal. Circumstances but
40:25
Speaker 1: here In brooklyn there's been an even more obstinate than
40:29
Speaker 1: usual obstacle in this. Case anthony brought his case to
40:32
Speaker 1: The Brooklyn Conviction Review unit in twenty, seventeen and one
40:35
Speaker 1: would think that the good folks there would take one
40:38
Speaker 1: look At graves's bullshit and do something about. It but
40:41
Speaker 1: the man tasked with running THE CiU In brooklyn since
40:44
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen Was Mark, hale who just so happens to
40:48
Speaker 1: be the man who Prosecuted anthony's. Case Hum but and
40:54
Speaker 1: this is a big, Butt Mark hale just retired at
40:58
Speaker 1: the beginning Of july twenty twenty. One so while this
41:00
Speaker 1: is good news For, anthony there's still plenty of ways
41:03
Speaker 1: that this might not work.
41:05
Speaker 3: Out so while we know that our case is, overwhelming
41:08
Speaker 3: there is no assurance that we're going to, prevail and
41:11
Speaker 3: that's why we need all of the help that we.
41:13
Speaker 4: Can we appreciate all of the listeners to the, podcasts
41:17
Speaker 4: and of Course, jason all of your, advocacy what you're
41:20
Speaker 4: doing and just giving us a. Platform we have a
41:22
Speaker 4: Website Free Anthony sims dot com and you can sign
41:26
Speaker 4: your name to the petition which calls On Brooklyn District
41:31
Speaker 4: Attorney Eric gonzalez to join our motion to Vacate anthony's
41:35
Speaker 4: wrongful conviction and to let him go home to his
41:38
Speaker 4: family where he. Belongs there's also a link where you
41:42
Speaker 4: can email The District attorney's, Office so please Visit Free
41:46
Speaker 4: Anthony sims dot com and we greatly appreciate all of your, help.
41:51
Speaker 1: And i'm going to be signing and joining and you,
41:53
Speaker 1: KNOW i do believe In Eric. Gonzalez, eric if you're
41:58
Speaker 1: listening right, now we're counting on. You that's ALL i can.
42:01
Speaker 3: Say we believe That Da, gonzales once he understands this,
42:05
Speaker 3: case he's going to do the right.
42:07
Speaker 1: There amen to, that And i'll have the website linked
42:09
Speaker 1: in our episode. Bio, okay so now we come to
42:13
Speaker 1: the part of the show called closing, arguments WHERE i
42:16
Speaker 1: offer my sincere thanks to you, Guys Jonathan holes And
42:20
Speaker 1: Thomas hoffman for your passionate devotion to this case and
42:24
Speaker 1: just for being good. Humans and of course you, Know,
42:27
Speaker 1: anthony you're a hero to me and so many other,
42:31
Speaker 1: people just for your, spirit courage and your. Grace you,
42:35
Speaker 1: know it's really an honor to have you here. Today
42:37
Speaker 1: and so here's how this. Works i'm going to turn
42:40
Speaker 1: my microphone, off kick back in my, chair close my,
42:43
Speaker 1: eyes and each of you guys get the opportunity to
42:46
Speaker 1: share any final parting thoughts you. Have we call it closing.
42:50
Speaker 1: Arguments we'll start With Jonathan hiles that you could pass
42:53
Speaker 1: the mic To Thomas, hoffman and then we'll save the
42:55
Speaker 1: best for, last And, anthony you'll be with all due
42:58
Speaker 1: respect to, you, Guys, anthony he's going to be bad
43:01
Speaker 1: and clean, up so to. Speak, so without further Ado
43:04
Speaker 1: Jonathan hile's closing, Arguments.
43:06
Speaker 2: Thank, You.
43:07
Speaker 4: JASON i think it's important to look at the broader
43:11
Speaker 4: picture and how this injustice. Occurred and it's because the
43:14
Speaker 4: system did not value the life Of Anthony, simms and
43:19
Speaker 4: it also did not value the life Of lee Run.
43:22
Speaker 4: Chun and what we're fighting to do is to make
43:26
Speaker 4: sure that justice is served For anthony and also for the,
43:30
Speaker 4: victim for the truth to, emerge and every ounce of
43:34
Speaker 4: help we can get to ensure that happens is deeply
43:38
Speaker 4: appreciated because the truth has been clear from the, start
43:42
Speaker 4: and that truth is That Julius graves was the perpetrator
43:46
Speaker 4: of this awful, crime Not Anthony. Simms and it's time
43:50
Speaker 4: For anthony to go home and to be reunited with
43:53
Speaker 4: his family so that he can be with them and
43:55
Speaker 4: serve the community to which he has so much to.
43:58
Speaker 4: Contribute so thank you, Again, Jason.
44:01
Speaker 3: Thank you again for doing. THIS i believe you have
44:04
Speaker 3: had one hundred and forty five podcasts of people who
44:07
Speaker 3: were wontfully. CONVICTED i have listened to. Many while the facts,
44:11
Speaker 3: vary the stories are all the. SAME a horrific crime is,
44:15
Speaker 3: committed drawing wide media and public. Attention perpetrators need to
44:21
Speaker 3: be taken off the street and held to. Account, however
44:25
Speaker 3: the concern of the police and the prosecutors is not
44:28
Speaker 3: to find the actual, perpetrator but to give the public
44:31
Speaker 3: the perception that the case was. Solved it did not
44:34
Speaker 3: matter whether the right person was brought to justice as
44:37
Speaker 3: long as the conviction was secured and the public fear.
44:41
Speaker 3: Allayed As jonathan, said neither the victim nor the defendant's
44:46
Speaker 3: life is valued as long as the cases were so
44:50
Speaker 3: to the public is not, valued as the police did
44:53
Speaker 3: not care whether the actual perpetrator remained loose and posed
44:58
Speaker 3: the danger to the. Public also, common in order to
45:02
Speaker 3: win these, cases evidence pointing away from the defendant's culpability
45:07
Speaker 3: is ignored and not, investigated as such investigation could potentially
45:14
Speaker 3: exculpate the, accused and of Course rachel is an example of.
45:18
Speaker 3: That in this, case favorable evidence pointing away from defendant's
45:23
Speaker 3: guilt is disregarded, and in contravention of the prosecutor's constitutional,
45:28
Speaker 3: duty is hidden from the. Defender, meanwhile husband's, wives, mothers, fathers,
45:34
Speaker 3: sisters brothers and, sons and daughters are, destroyed all in
45:40
Speaker 3: the interest of winning at all. Courts people ask me
45:45
Speaker 3: why DO i do. THIS i Now i'm giving it.
45:48
Speaker 3: Away am A holocaust. SURVIVOR i was born in nineteen forty.
45:53
Speaker 3: Four basically my, family extensive family was wiped, out and
46:00
Speaker 3: That holocaust was caused by people remaining. Silent and that
46:06
Speaker 3: is WHY i call on our audience not to be.
46:09
Speaker 3: Silent go to that website to undo this horrific.
46:14
Speaker 5: Injustice, ANTHONY i want to say thank, You, Tom, Jonathan
46:21
Speaker 5: jason And, connor AND i really thank you for.
46:25
Speaker 2: This this has probably been one of the highlights of many.
46:28
Speaker 2: Years and now THAT i know That gonzalez is going
46:32
Speaker 2: to be looking at, THIS i want to talk directly to,
46:35
Speaker 2: you Mister, gonzales AND i want to ask that you
46:39
Speaker 2: please review this. Evidence if don't just discard my case
46:45
Speaker 2: like the rest of, them view it with an open,
46:49
Speaker 2: mind understand what's would. Happened and Although i'll never be
46:53
Speaker 2: able to get back over the year That i've been
46:54
Speaker 2: in here, unjust you can make this right by doing
46:57
Speaker 2: the right. Thing allow me to be the father and
47:01
Speaker 2: out there society THAT i KNOW i need to be
47:04
Speaker 2: with my sons and let me dismiss some time with
47:06
Speaker 2: my mother and father who got. Old you, know my
47:09
Speaker 2: father had a. Show my mother's walking around with kine
47:11
Speaker 2: as an about eleventh, Victim my grandmother who's eighty six years,
47:15
Speaker 2: old who lives for, me my, wife, family my family
47:20
Speaker 2: just in, general allow me to get some of my life, back.
47:25
Speaker 1: Do the right. Thing thank you for listening To Wrongful
47:37
Speaker 1: conviction With jason Flamm please support your local innocence projects
47:41
Speaker 1: and go to the link in our bio to see
47:43
Speaker 1: how you can. Help i'd like to thank our production
47:46
Speaker 1: Team Connor, Hall Jeff clyburn And Kevin. Warnis the music
47:50
Speaker 1: on the, show as, always is by three TIME oscar
47:53
Speaker 1: nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us On
47:56
Speaker 1: instagram At Wrongful conviction and On facebook at Wrong Conviction.
48:00
Speaker 1: Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flahm is a production Of
48:04
Speaker 1: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company number
48:07
Speaker 1: one