Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #011- "I Knew I Was Going to Die"

Transcript

#011- "I Knew I Was Going to Die" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

0:24
SPEAKER_01: All right, guys, we're back.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Blue Grip Podcast.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Tom Rowan.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: We've got a uh really special guest on the day, a good friend of mine in the East Texas area, and one of our board of directors.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: I just want to throw it out there real quick.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Apparently, a couple weeks ago, I threw out some names of a meeting at dinner, and I did not include this individual who was uh part of the hiring of me with this organization.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm gonna you know fall on the sword and and and say I didn't mention his name.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: So Ken Gardner was a very much an integral part of me getting hired with TMPA, and uh sincerely I I really do appreciate it.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: We've been we've been good friends ever since, and and uh I respect and and love the hell out of you.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: So was that enough makeup?
1:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, no, no, not really.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh I didn't think so.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: I had to call it to his attention, but but uh I mean a lot to him, but he forgot about me.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: So that's okay.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: That's all right.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: My bad.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
1:23
SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Ken Gardner, Tyler P.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: D.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh how long have you been on the board?
1:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh since 2014.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
1:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: Started at a region nine director, which is Tyler, East Texas area.
1:38
SPEAKER_03: And that was in 2014.
1:40
SPEAKER_03: That was an interesting story how I got on too.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we'll have a round two, episode two of Ken Gardner.
1:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, we're uh we're gonna talk about some some interesting, well, an interesting incident that that took place with you, uh life or death situation back some years ago.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: But uh as we do with every episode, you know, if you want to dive off into who Ken Gardner is and where you grew up and and uh talk about that and kind of stroll into how you got into law enforcement.
2:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, uh yeah, my name is Kenneth Gardner.
2:13
SPEAKER_03: Everybody calls me Ken and other things uh over the years.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: But uh uh I grew up in East Texas in Tyler, actually.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh we moved there in 1975.
2:28
SPEAKER_03: It's a good name.
2:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, of course it is.
2:31
SPEAKER_03: But uh my my my father was a Baptist preacher, and he was sent to Tyler to start a church, and that's how we ended up in Tyler.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Where were you born?
2:42
SPEAKER_03: In Longview.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: In Longview.
2:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we actually lived in Longview.
2:45
SPEAKER_03: My brothers, I'm the youngest of six, so uh they were born different places in uh Mount Pleasant, Houston, different places where my dad was preaching at the time.
2:58
SPEAKER_03: And we uh I was born in Longview, and then we moved to Tyler, where he started the church in 1975.
3:06
SPEAKER_03: And been there ever since.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: And I told you I'm the youngest of six.
3:11
SPEAKER_03: Now there's uh there's five boys and one girl in our family.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: And being the youngest of six, I got away with everything.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean everything.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: Curfews.
3:23
SPEAKER_03: By the time they got to me, they were so tired they didn't care.
3:26
SPEAKER_03: I figure with all those boys, I figured the girl probably got away with everything.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good one.
3:29
SPEAKER_03: No, she was number one.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh shoot, she was number two in line.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: She was the second one.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: And uh, so yeah, I got away with everything.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So Grippy Tyler went to high school?
3:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, went to went to high school in Tyler, went to Robert D.
3:44
SPEAKER_03: Lee and Tyler.
3:45
SPEAKER_03: All six of us graduated from Robert D.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: Lee within the 10-year period from 81 to 91.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: That poor school.
3:53
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you aren't kidding.
3:55
SPEAKER_03: You aren't kidding.
3:57
SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, we went uh we all went through uh through school there in Tyler, graduated, and every one of us are still in the area.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: And grown up kids of a Baptist preacher, five boys, I'm sure there's no mischief, no uh you were all just tame as could be.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, I thought so.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: I was probably I was probably the worst one to be honest with you.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: I guess because I got away with everything.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:27
SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, we had a we had a lot of good time.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: Didn't have a lot of money though.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, we mom was an accountant later on, my dad was a pastor.
4:37
SPEAKER_03: So we didn't have a lot of money, didn't know it though.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it really didn't matter.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: We had a good time.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
4:43
SPEAKER_03: Had a good time, had a good time.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Money can't replace the the value of the family that you guys have and how close.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And the I mean, you guys are like old school tight family.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: Still are today.
4:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we talk every day.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: That's cool.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh every day.
5:02
SPEAKER_03: So, and it doesn't hurt that most of us work together.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Go go in, dive off in that if you want to, but really uh, you know, y'all are all the same profession.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: So so you graduated high school, all of you graduated, Robert E.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Lee.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: What began?
5:17
SPEAKER_00: When did you know you may want to be a cop or who of all the brothers, and you can kind of dive into how you all got into the career and kind of lay that all that out?
5:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'd uh I always I guess since high school, probably my sophomore junior year, I actually wanted to be a DPS trooper.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: Then I found out all they do is write tickets and work accidents for the most part.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: That's the big part of their the job.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: I know they do a lot of other stuff.
5:43
SPEAKER_03: Right.
5:43
SPEAKER_03: They have CID, they do their own investigations.
5:46
SPEAKER_03: So I don't want any DPS troopers out there mad at me.
5:50
SPEAKER_03: But so my my oldest brother, Wendell, he was a registered nurse, actually.
5:56
SPEAKER_03: He was a registered nurse for 10 years.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, he did that for 10 years.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: And so he wasn't the first one.
6:04
SPEAKER_03: Everybody thinks my oldest brother was the first one in law enforcement.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: He wasn't.
6:07
SPEAKER_03: Our first cousin, uh, Kevin Lunsford, was the was the uh chief in Huntsville, Texas.
6:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: He just retired.
6:14
SPEAKER_03: I think he did close to 40 years.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he was there a long, long time.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh I know they all loved him down there, but he just retired.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: Actually, I was at the conference this year, and I wasn't able to make it to his retirement.
6:26
SPEAKER_03: So that's when he re that's when he retired.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: So he was in, he was the worked for Huntsville Police Department, had another cousin, Steve Gardner.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: He worked for Walker County, and then went to work for uh, he ended up retiring from the TDCJ.
6:43
SPEAKER_03: Uh so he was also in law enforcement.
6:47
SPEAKER_03: So we were thinking about it early on, and then uh I went to TJC, started going to Tyler Junior College, so a little shout out to them because it was it was a good college, it still is.
7:00
SPEAKER_03: All my kids have gone.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: I'm kidding.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know you are, but uh so anyway, uh Clint was the first one to actually get in.
7:11
SPEAKER_03: He's he went to work at the Smith County Sheriff's Department in this probably July of '92.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: And then I followed him in uh October of ninety-two.
7:24
SPEAKER_03: We started working in the jail.
7:25
SPEAKER_03: I was 19 years old.
7:27
SPEAKER_03: You know, so once uh I went ahead through I was going to TJC, got my got my associate's degree, so I thought, well, I'm gonna challenge the test.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: Because you could back then.
7:38
SPEAKER_03: So I was 20 years old, didn't know anything, except for what I learned in school.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: So I took the test, somehow I passed it.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean, I didn't know that.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Never went to a police academy.
7:50
SPEAKER_03: No kidding.
7:51
SPEAKER_03: Never did.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's caused a few problems over the years, just kind of uh yeah, just when they asked me about it.
8:02
SPEAKER_03: So I I took the test, I passed the T close test at the time.
8:08
SPEAKER_03: Uh so but I had to wait until I turned 21 to get my peace officer license.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: So that was in uh in August of '94.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: Right after I turned 21, I got my peace officer license.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: And uh so Clint was still uh at the sheriff's department.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: He was going to like nighttime academy and working.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know how he pulled that off.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:31
SPEAKER_03: He also got his peace officer license that way through the sheriff's office.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: And then how who decided to apply to TPD or was that a well it started out with Clint.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: He he applied, he went to the Tyler Police Department in I think it was January or no February.
8:52
SPEAKER_03: I believe it was February of ninety-five.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:55
SPEAKER_03: And then I followed him in December of ninety-six.
8:59
SPEAKER_03: So I've been at the Tyler Police Department for just had my 26th year this last December.
9:05
SPEAKER_03: So uh after I went, I know y'all are gonna, I know what the joke's fixing to be before you say it, and anybody watching or listening's gonna say it too.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: My brother Daryl came to the Tyler Police Department.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: And my other brother Daryl.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: That's what I was waiting on.
9:22
SPEAKER_03: It happens every time.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: Every time.
9:25
SPEAKER_03: He came to the Tyler Police Department in January of 97.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: So he was a month after me.
9:31
SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
9:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh Wendell was still nurse.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: Wendell was still working as a nurse.
9:35
SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't long after that, my brother Vic Gardner.
9:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I'm not sure what year he started, I think it was in '97.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: He was uh went to work as a dispatcher for the Tyler Police Department.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: So at that point there were four of us at Tyler PD.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: Three of us were on patrol, and Vic was a dispatcher.
9:56
SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
9:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:57
SPEAKER_03: Well, it wasn't until 98, I think it was, when Wendell came on, because he just retired with almost 25 years.
10:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like 24 years and nine months or something.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: And he retired a few months ago.
10:11
SPEAKER_03: But he came on and he was the last one.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: So five boys and a girl, and five all five boys were in law enforcement.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: Yes, we were all working for the Tyler Police Department.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: One was in dispatch and the four uh four of us were on patrol.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean this to be sarcastic, but does the does Tyler Police Department still have the is there any nepotism policies now?
10:32
SPEAKER_03: No.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Because that's not really I would say for majority of because Tyler PD's a pretty big for our listeners or watchers out there.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Um the Tyler P, I mean it's a that's a big agency.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: It's and it's a respectable agency in the in the East Texas area, so I'm kind of shocked that they don't have an nepotism.
10:48
SPEAKER_03: Um Yeah, we had a they uh when we went to work there, I think there were some husbands and wives that were working there.
11:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh we have what 200 officers, I think.
11:03
SPEAKER_03: Uh right around that.
11:04
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what the official maybe a little more than 200 now.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: So uh really hasn't caused any, you know, any problem as far as uh supervising, you know, we couldn't work for our brother, but yeah, as far as working with, we've ridden on patrol together quite a few times.
11:21
SPEAKER_03: That is cool.
11:21
SPEAKER_03: That is fun.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: That's probably one of the that's probably one of the funnest times is when you could just get out in a patrol car and go with your brother.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: That and also, if anybody ever wanted to complain, I just say Gardner.
11:35
SPEAKER_03: That's a good point.
11:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they say, well, what's your name?
11:38
SPEAKER_03: I said Gardner.
11:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: And then they have fun with that.
11:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:42
SPEAKER_03: And then once they, if if they wanted to complain, which I didn't, you know, I didn't get hardly any complaints over the years, uh, then they just have to figure it out in the office, figure out which gardener it was.
11:54
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: So I know currently you're assigned um in a fairly specialized unit.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: You if you want to share where your current role is.
12:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm assigned to a task force with the FBI.
12:07
SPEAKER_03: And uh I've been doing that.
12:08
SPEAKER_03: I've been over there a little over a year.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: TFO.
12:11
SPEAKER_03: TFO, yeah.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
12:15
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
12:15
SPEAKER_03: I know.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: All you TFO guys out there, I was one of you.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: I know you were.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: And Ken Gardner is one of you.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: He likes a special elite group.
12:25
SPEAKER_03: But you know, before before I even, you know, I was even asked to do that, I I've got to, I've been, I've had the opportunity to do a lot of stuff at the PD.
12:34
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's what I was going to get to.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: So you were pretty fortunate.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Started out patrol.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I know you were a bicyclist for a long time.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: And then most of the time I've known you, you were an extremely experienced, respected capers detective, homicide detective.
12:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'd uh I worked patrol and uh always wanted to be on the bicycle team.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: I know everybody laughs at that.
12:54
SPEAKER_03: When I tell them the bike team, they say, Oh, well, what kind of motorcycles y'all y'all ride?
12:58
SPEAKER_03: And I said, I don't know what they ride, but we ride a bicycle.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we ride trek bicycles.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: So uh that was in '99, I put in and uh I'd been on patrol for a few years, but I always wanted to ride on the bicycle patrol.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh those guys were always uh self-initiated stuff.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: Uh I wouldn't say aggressive, but self-initiated that didn't answer calls.
13:24
SPEAKER_03: If anytime they needed something, if they had somebody that needed to be found or anybody that needed to be tracked down for CID, they'd call us.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: They say, hey, can y'all go locate these people for us?
13:35
SPEAKER_03: And that's what we would do.
13:36
SPEAKER_03: So that was a I did that for 10 years.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: In bike bike unit at Tyler, is that pretty much full-time on bike?
13:45
SPEAKER_00: So five days a week you're on a bicycle, or is it just two days a week you're in a car and three days a week you're on a bike?
13:51
SPEAKER_03: No, back then, uh back then when I was on it, it was a full-time unit.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you just stay a lean, mean fighting machine.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: I still do, Clint.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, no, no.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Super sexy now.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Very good.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you walked right into that one.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't get don't watch yourself.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: No, I still ten years on a bicycle every day.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:10
SPEAKER_03: That was the good thing about it.
14:11
SPEAKER_03: We'd come in and they'd uh we'd we of course we had our own bikes, we had our own equipment.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we just we'd hit the street.
14:19
SPEAKER_03: We would leave the office on a bicycle, and uh, you know, we would uh the people in the community loved us because uh, you know, sometimes uh most of the times we worked in a high crime area, and the good people in that area, they loved having us there.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's engaged, you're not stuck in a car with the window rolled up.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean you're you're accessible and personable.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: Talk to all the you know, all the good people in the neighborhood that liked to see us.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: So we'd stop, we'd wave, we'd talk.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but they knew that uh everybody knew that when the bikes were coming out that the bad guys knew that the word traveled fast.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: Hey, yeah, the bad guys are out.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it was a full-time unit, and there were six of us assigned to it with a sergeant.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: How many miles do you think you'd ride on an average week?
15:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I don't know.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: We could there it would be nothing to ride, you know, 15, 20 miles a day.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Golly, that's awesome.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:12
SPEAKER_03: So it was it was a blast.
15:13
SPEAKER_03: It was probably uh looking back on it, that was probably the funnest unit I ever served, you know, worked on.
15:21
SPEAKER_03: But uh I did that for 10 years, and some during that time they also had us uh as a field training officer, we trained some of the new officers coming in, so we did that.
15:33
SPEAKER_03: Um then eventually I went over and started in CID, and I did that.
15:39
SPEAKER_03: I went back in like the summer of 08 and kind of did a rotation type thing.
15:44
SPEAKER_03: I did some juvenile crimes and then some uh financial crimes, which I learned real quick.
15:51
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't cut out for financial crimes.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, I agree.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: Hunter Tempest.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: It takes a dedicated special person with a desire to do that.
15:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
15:59
SPEAKER_03: So we did that, and then uh in uh then in May of 09 is when I went back to our major crimes or our crimes against persons unit, and uh I stayed there until uh November of 2021.
16:13
SPEAKER_03: And that's when I the transfer opened, yeah.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: So so the bike unit, so obviously CID would be involved more specifically, probably your CID property crime guys, uh, and your narcs.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Would they just say, okay, guys, can you kind of expand upon what the operational I guess mission would be uh of kind of the target areas and and kind of what you would do throughout that process?
16:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
16:40
SPEAKER_03: The uh our bike team, we we did a lot of street level narcotics.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's pretty much what we did.
16:48
SPEAKER_03: Bikes were when they were brand new, like in the mid-90s when they brought them to Tyler, um, when our bike unit started, it was so new, and crack cocaine was crazy, as as you know.
17:01
SPEAKER_03: Crack cocaine was everywhere, and and uh you could sneak up on somebody on a bicycle, they couldn't hear you, they couldn't see you before it's too late, and then before you know it, they're just h holding it in their hand.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: So we would do street level narcotics, and you know, if uh if we wanted to, as everybody knows, in in law enforcement, you take them, and those that want to do a little work, work their case, or whatever they want to do, we'll turn them over to Vice and let them deal with them.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh either that or take them to jail.
17:31
SPEAKER_03: But then on other times, they would have uh certain areas having a lot of burglaries, a lot of auto burglaries.
17:38
SPEAKER_03: Can't see us.
17:39
SPEAKER_03: We could hide, we could sneak up.
17:42
SPEAKER_03: And uh we did that quite often as well.
17:44
SPEAKER_03: But it's funny.
17:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm telling you, it was probably the so far.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: I loved CID.
17:51
SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: I did it for so long, uh, but just the guys you worked with on the bike team because you're with them eight hours a day.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: It's not like in a car where you go to a call and back somebody up, may go eat with them.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: You're with each other for eight, ten hours a day, five days a week.
18:11
SPEAKER_03: Whenever we would do, you know, sometimes our our shifts would change from time to time.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: But uh, we were together all the time.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: It was it was great.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: It's awesome.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, and on the CID part, one thing people think about is Tyler's a quiet little community and a lot of old oil money, and y'all are hopping in a capers unit working homicide and robbery.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: And every time I talk to you, I'm I'm working a robbery, I'll have to call you back, or I'm about to go interview a homicide suspect, and people don't realize Tyler's a hopping place to work capers.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, we have uh we have our share just like anybody else.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh I think uh statistically, I think uh it was fairly low or average for for a city our size.
18:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh but we had a lot of you know, we had some good leadership there that uh and it made it easy.
19:03
SPEAKER_03: Had a lot of good guys in CID.
19:05
SPEAKER_03: If we had something come out, anything major, we would jump on it.
19:09
SPEAKER_03: Uh but I guess for you know for the city our size, it would be average or maybe a little less than average, I would say.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, a lot of people think it's a quiet little East Texas, just a quiet little town.
19:20
SPEAKER_03: It is until something happens.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Every time I call you, man, I'll have to call you back.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm going into interrogation.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: I did do that a lot.
19:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh I did that.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or you're just trying to get off the phone with me.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: I would just tell you, Clint, I don't want to talk right now.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: He still does.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do from time to time.
19:37
SPEAKER_03: But no, we'd uh we would have our our stuff like everybody else.
19:42
SPEAKER_03: But Clint's right.
19:43
SPEAKER_03: I mean Tyler's no different than anybody else.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: Uh uh, but I think for the most part, uh we kept a handle on it pretty good.
19:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think, considering.
19:53
SPEAKER_03: And uh and everybody knew that.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: So And that's one thing too, uh I like you guys have always been an assertive department.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: When when there's an issue or a hot spot, y'all go handle business and people go to jail and y'all sew up the problems and and tie up the loose ends and don't put a band-aid on it.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's one thing I've always respect about the style of policing you guys have done there.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Is yeah, y'all if there's a problem, y'all are gonna go handle it.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
20:22
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
20:22
SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, you had the backing to do it too.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: And uh those that would stand behind you, yeah, as you'll see later on.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we were we were pretty fortunate.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: So you got transferred in 2000.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: When when did you start the bike unit?
20:37
SPEAKER_01: What year?
20:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh the the end of 99, first of 2000 is when I got on the bike.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: So 2003, you're you're pretty much you've got a lot of you got some experience as a bike cop.
20:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was in I was in pretty good shape.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Tyler.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm imagining.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm imagining that's why it looks 30, didn't we?
20:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you.
20:53
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Look amazing.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, and your wife agrees.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: She's smiling, acknowledging you still look 30.
21:01
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
21:01
SPEAKER_03: That's all I'm gonna say about that.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: So 2003, uh you you've been on the bike patrol for for several years.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Um it's a big year for you.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: What month, what what kind of let up, if you want to give kind of a background of of the the day of the uh this tragedy or this horrible incident.
21:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: It would we had uh it was like any other day for bikes.
21:28
SPEAKER_03: Uh we almost had our whole team there.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh there were there were five of us that were out on patrol that day.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: Uh my sergeant, he uh he had just had his his first child, so he was off on baby leave.
21:45
SPEAKER_03: So we came in and this was July 31st, 2003.
21:50
SPEAKER_03: And I think we all agreed it was a Thursday and I was getting ready to go on vacation.
21:55
SPEAKER_03: I was either leaving Friday or Saturday, I can't remember.
21:58
SPEAKER_03: And uh My wife had uh the three daughters at the time.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: And uh so they were I think they've gone over and were doing some shopping and visiting her sister who I think just had a just had a child too.
22:12
SPEAKER_03: So they went over to Longview.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: My wife and the kids were over there buying some things for vacation.
22:17
SPEAKER_03: So I said, We left out of the station.
22:19
SPEAKER_03: I said, All right, let's take it easy today.
22:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm going on vacation.
22:23
SPEAKER_03: Famous less words.
22:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: Let's not get into anything.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to work late.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to do anything.
22:28
SPEAKER_03: Let's just kind of if they need us, if we have any calls in the area, let's handle those.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: But let's just take it easy.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: And they all agreed.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: I think it's equivalent to hold my beer and watch this.
22:39
SPEAKER_03: Let me I said, let's just, let's just uh I just want to go on vacation.
22:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: That's all I wanted to do.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, we left out left out that day for and had that in mind, let's just kind of answer a few calls if we need to and and move on down the road.
22:58
SPEAKER_03: But uh the ones on uh the ones that I rode the bike on the bike team with, we were talking earlier about how close they were to me, not just at the police department.
23:09
SPEAKER_03: You know, I've known these guys, some of them like uh Philip Johnson, he was one of them.
23:14
SPEAKER_03: I've known him since fifth grade.
23:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, we've been friends since fifth grade.
23:19
SPEAKER_03: We rode by matter of fact, Philip, I was in his wedding, we grew up, went to middle school, went to high school, worked together, worked at the sheriff's office together.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: He went to the Marine Corps.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: Philip did while I went to work, and uh he comes back, of course, still friends like always, and get hired the same day at the Tyler Police Department.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was like getting hired on with another brother.
23:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
23:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he was our computer numbers, I mean our employee ID numbers are one digit off.
23:50
SPEAKER_03: He's ahead of me, and I joke with him.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: It's only because he got those freaking five points for his military on that civil service test.
23:59
SPEAKER_03: If it hadn't been for that, I'd have been in front of him.
24:01
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, he was in front of me.
24:03
SPEAKER_03: So Phillip was with me on the bikes that day.
24:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh, Billy Yates, and Philip is still at the Tyler Police Department.
24:09
SPEAKER_03: He was a canine, he did bikes, canine, uh, narcotics.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: He did everything, he's done a little bit, everything, and he's still there.
24:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh Billy Yates, he's uh I knew him before I came to work at the police department.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: He's now an assistant chief.
24:23
SPEAKER_03: That's cool.
24:24
SPEAKER_03: Uh he was there with us.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: Um uh Mike Saxon, he I met him in 1991 going to TJC.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: So the fall of '91.
24:35
SPEAKER_03: So known him for years.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: And um Josh Green, and that was the one when when I was talking to y'all before and others, he he retired about six years, almost six years ago, five and a half, almost six years ago.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: And he's now now in Colorado, northern Colorado, and he's a pastor.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: He was sent there to start a church.
24:58
SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, so we were all real close, and we worked together for, like I said, years and years, and then I knew him before that, and then we ended up working for another 10 years on bike patrol.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: So that day y'all just trying to take trying to take it easy?
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh probably stay close to the station.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Um how how did it unfold?
25:19
SPEAKER_01: What kind of walk us through the case?
25:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we had uh there was a there was a certain complex that uh we would patrol regularly.
25:27
SPEAKER_03: Like I said, the good people loved us.
25:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: The good people in the apartment complex wanted us there.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: And uh so they on the back side of this apartment complex is where a lot of them sold their crack cocaine and their drugs and whatnot.
25:42
SPEAKER_03: And our plan was to split up.
25:44
SPEAKER_03: We would do this all the time.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: We'd split up in two teams.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: It's almost like flushing them out.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: They'd see a group come this way, well, they take off the other way.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: The other group's coming in from the other side, so they stop them.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: That's it, push it up.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: Push them out.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, push them out.
26:03
SPEAKER_03: So that was the plan.
26:05
SPEAKER_03: So we split up.
26:06
SPEAKER_03: There was only five of us, so three went around, and uh I was with Mike Saxon.
26:11
SPEAKER_03: The other three went around on the other side.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: We come in the apartment complex, and I see this guy walking.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: Of course, I didn't recognize him.
26:21
SPEAKER_03: He had his back to me, and uh I hear the guys on the radio on the other side, and you can actually hear it on the the 911 or on the radio traffic, not the 911 call, but the radio traffic.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: And uh I heard Billy Yates say, hey, Ken, stop that red car.
26:41
SPEAKER_03: Well, they had rolled up on a drug transaction, and uh they were leaned in the car making the deal, they see them, the car takes off.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: He wants me to stop the car.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: Well, I was already see this guy walking.
26:55
SPEAKER_03: So I ignored the red car, and uh Mike Saxon was behind me on his bike, so we're all on bikes.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: Well, in the meantime, I didn't know this at the time, but the other, I think it was uh Philip Johnson and Josh Green were contacting some guys that were at the car making the deal.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: And I think uh Billy kind of took off after the car just to kind of keep an eye on it.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, we didn't go after the car.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: I see, I see this guy walking, and he turns around and he sees me.
27:26
SPEAKER_03: Well, he's holding a beer can in his hand, so he throws his beer can down, and I holler at him, I said, you know, I identify myself, hey Tyler, please stop.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: Of course, I didn't know who he was at the time.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: And then uh we go into a courtyard.
27:42
SPEAKER_03: So you can imagine there's two long buildings this way and some shorter buildings this way.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: So it's a long, long courtyard area, buildings surrounding it.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: We walk into this little courtyard area, and he's not stopping.
27:58
SPEAKER_03: Because you know, I've been able to get off my bike.
28:01
SPEAKER_03: They you go through bike school to learn how to dismount, and you're still rolling, you know.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: It looks cool anyway.
28:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I came off that thing and uh I told him again, I said, Tyler, please stop.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, we've all been cops for a long time.
28:19
SPEAKER_03: You know when something's not right.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: So I stopped, he keeps walking, but his hands go into the front of his, you know, to his waist on the front side.
28:33
SPEAKER_03: So I stopped, I quit approaching him at that point, and I start backing up.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: Take a few steps back, and I remember having my gun on my hand.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: Now, what's crazy is I actually did pull my gun out, didn't even realize it once it was all over.
28:52
SPEAKER_03: And again, I mean uh I'll kind of follow up on that in a minute, but so anyway, he's walking, I said, Let me see your hands, as we always do.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: Because if we can see their hands, that's what's gonna kill us.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: Let me see your hands, and I start backing up.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: Well, I didn't know if Mike Saxon was with me or not.
29:11
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know if he took off after the car.
29:13
SPEAKER_03: I didn't see him, didn't hear him.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: This guy, he didn't say a word.
29:21
SPEAKER_03: He didn't say anything.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: He didn't he did nothing.
29:26
SPEAKER_03: All he did was turn to his left and I can see it like his dad.
29:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean it's this year will be 20 years.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Doesn't seem like it.
29:35
SPEAKER_03: He turned, didn't say a word.
29:37
SPEAKER_03: He fires a shot at me.
29:39
SPEAKER_03: The first shot missed me.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh my bike's laying there, it's on the ground.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: The first shot missed me.
29:47
SPEAKER_03: Now I'm pretty close to the corner of this building.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking if I can get to the corner of that building, at least I'll have some cover because I'm right out in the open.
29:54
SPEAKER_03: How many?
29:55
SPEAKER_03: How far away was he when he fired that shot?
29:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I don't know, three or four yards.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we were close.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: I was backing up.
30:06
SPEAKER_03: So you can imagine five year five yards on a football field.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's it was less than that.
30:11
SPEAKER_03: Or right at it.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we were close.
30:14
SPEAKER_03: Still not sure how he missed me, to be honest with you.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we were close.
30:18
SPEAKER_03: So he missed me that first shot, and I'm thinking if I can get to the corner of this building, I think I can get some cover and I can return some fire or something, because I had nothing.
30:28
SPEAKER_03: And it had was we're talking about seconds, seconds.
30:32
SPEAKER_03: So uh as soon as I turned to get to the corner, I felt something hit me like a sledgehammer.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was it was hard.
30:41
SPEAKER_03: And uh I fell to the ground right there by the corner of the building.
30:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, I look up to see where he is, and then I hear more gunfire behind me.
30:53
SPEAKER_03: Well, Mike Saxon actually came around and uh took the attention off of me, and the bad guy started shooting at him.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: So had he not been with me, who who knows what would have happened.
31:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:07
SPEAKER_03: Um uh so Saxon coming around the corner drew his gunfire.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Suspect fired more.
31:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he fired a couple couple rounds more at uh at uh Mike Saxon.
31:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh didn't hit him, uh, but he he came right there, he was right there at the corner, so he had some cover too.
31:25
SPEAKER_03: And uh so he takes off running, the bad guy takes off running down through this courtyard.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: And you can imagine, I mean, this is in the summer.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: Kids are out of school.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's packed.
31:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the the apartment complex itself is.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't remember ever seeing anybody in the complex in the uh courtyard there when we went in.
31:46
SPEAKER_03: So so anyway, he takes off running and uh I'm watching him, I'm looking at down at him, and he's shooting back.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: At the time I wasn't quite sure he was shooting me or Mike Sacks, and I figured all that out later on.
32:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but he definitely took the attention off of me because now he has to deal with a second one he didn't expect.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
32:08
SPEAKER_03: Came around that corner.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: So he takes off running, and um then I hear multiple gunshots on the other end of the complex, and I look down there and he's down, and I see the other officers.
32:22
SPEAKER_03: So I didn't know what was going on down on the other end.
32:24
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was kind of out of it.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't use my left arm.
32:27
SPEAKER_03: I tried, but when I was talking to you about pulling my gun, you know, as when we start, you you practice drawing your gun.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: You stand in there.
32:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure my wife thought I was crazy standing in the bathroom drawing my gun time and time again.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: Because you have the locks on them, you had the the thumb brake and then the rock forward.
32:48
unknown: Yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's the one I had at the time.
32:50
SPEAKER_03: So I'd stand there and practice, practice, practice, practice.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: But you had clothes on when you did this, because sometimes just as bicycle boots.
32:58
SPEAKER_03: Shoes.
33:01
SPEAKER_03: So uh, you know, you practice it and you don't realize it.
33:04
SPEAKER_03: I mean, and I would tell all the all the new guys, and they told me that when I started, you need to practice.
33:10
SPEAKER_03: Because when it happens, there's gonna be a lot going on.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Muscle memory.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: That's it.
33:15
SPEAKER_03: That's it.
33:15
SPEAKER_03: And sure enough, whenever I hit the ground and I realize it's all over, I had my gun in my hand.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: So I was able to where'd that come from?
33:24
SPEAKER_03: What's that?
33:24
SPEAKER_03: You're thinking, where'd that come from?
33:26
SPEAKER_03: I didn't even realize I had it.
33:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, from the time he fired that first shot to the time I landed by that building, I had my gun in my hand.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: And we're not talking far.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was pretty, pretty close because his was like pop, pop, and the second one got me.
33:41
SPEAKER_03: So I still wasn't quite sure what was going on on the other end.
33:46
SPEAKER_03: Now remember I grew up with a couple of these guys and have known the others for years and years.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: So uh I'm laying there and I I get to where I can't, I'm having trouble breathing.
33:56
SPEAKER_03: Well, they tell me that uh, you know, they the suspect was down at the time.
34:03
SPEAKER_03: Still didn't know who it was.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Didn't didn't really care at the time.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: You said you first shot you knew he missed, second shot you knew you got hit.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh absolutely.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Did you know how bad you were shot?
34:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh no, no.
34:16
SPEAKER_03: Actually I thought I just okay, I was shot in the arm because it hit me on the on the left arm as I turned.
34:23
SPEAKER_03: And uh I thought, okay, well, I knew it hit my arm because I couldn't use my left arm.
34:28
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I could not move it.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't, I couldn't get myself up off the ground, like lift myself up.
34:34
SPEAKER_03: So I knew that uh I knew that it had hit me.
34:38
SPEAKER_03: But I just think, okay, it hit my arm.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't as bad as I thought or expected.
34:42
SPEAKER_03: No, I'll be okay.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: Everything will be fine.
34:45
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm laying there, and of course I know that the suspect is down on the other end and the officers and coming up there to check on me.
34:53
SPEAKER_03: And I'm laying on my right side.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: Of course, I can't use my left arm.
34:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm starting to have trouble breathing.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: I said, I need something to drink.
35:01
SPEAKER_03: And I think I may have had a camelback on that day.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: So I started trying to drink the camelback, which I found out later I didn't need to be doing that.
35:09
SPEAKER_03: But uh I was having trouble breathing, I knew at that point.
35:12
SPEAKER_03: Then I started tasting blood.
35:15
SPEAKER_03: Well, once that happened, I knew it had gone in somewhere.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: Didn't know where, didn't know how much damage had been done.
35:25
SPEAKER_03: But, you know, anybody who's ever hunted knows when the blood starts coming out of their mouth, guess what?
35:32
SPEAKER_03: As if so I was laying there just to kind of see how bad it was.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: I spit, and I'm telling you, it's like it happened yesterday.
35:41
SPEAKER_03: We're talking about almost 20 years ago.
35:43
SPEAKER_03: I spit on the side of this brick building and it's just dark red blood.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, here we go.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: So, oh Billy Yates, uh, he comes running down there where I am.
35:58
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know how I did it.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh well, I th I I know how I did it, but I'm laying there and he leans down and he puts his knee on my arm.
36:06
SPEAKER_03: And he says, Ken, are you okay?
36:08
SPEAKER_03: What are you hit?
36:10
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yeah, I'm hit.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: I said, Can you get off my deck and arm?
36:14
SPEAKER_03: That hurts.
36:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:15
SPEAKER_03: And I just started laughing, and of course, he's he's freaking out.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: And he's, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
36:21
SPEAKER_03: Where you hit, you're gonna have to move your knee to see.
36:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you can't see it.
36:24
SPEAKER_03: It's a hole right there where your knee is.
36:28
SPEAKER_03: So uh so then Philip Johnson, who I grew up with, like I said earlier, knew him since fifth grade.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: He realizes me.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: And when you hear the the recording of that, you can hear it in his voice.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: And uh he comes running down there to where I'm at.
36:43
SPEAKER_03: He's the one from the fifth grade.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: You are almost like brothers.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: So it was Philip and Josh were the two on the other end that ended up having to stop the threat, or they would have been yeah, yeah, they had to stop him right there.
36:55
SPEAKER_03: And um, so Philip comes running down there to check on me because we've been friends forever, and of course, he's all uh upset uh what happened to me, and then he just had to stop this guy from doing it to hurting anybody else.
37:15
SPEAKER_03: So then they uh they start calling for an ambulance, and then people started coming.
37:21
SPEAKER_03: And people started coming, and people started coming, and there were folks everywhere.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: And uh my brother Clint, he was uh I don't even know if I I think I mentioned him earlier by name, but Clint, he uh he was working South Tyler that day, and my brother Vic was in dispatch.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
37:42
SPEAKER_03: So you can imagine Vic by the process of elimination, he knew how many officers were on bikes out there.
37:49
SPEAKER_03: And then I think even at some one, at one point I think they said Gardner has been hit or Gardner's down or something.
37:57
SPEAKER_03: So my brother's in dispatch, and he finds out okay, you know, Ken's been shot, they don't know what's going on.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: So Clint, I don't know how he made it from Southtown or where I was, but uh he was there before I left in an ambulance.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Time travel.
38:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, he was there quick.
38:16
SPEAKER_03: And I I don't know if I found out right then or not.
38:20
SPEAKER_03: And uh I don't know.
38:24
SPEAKER_03: But during the exchange of gunfire on the other end, in addition to everything else going on, I've been hit, you know, he shot at Mike Saxon, he's gotten a gun battle with the other two officers down on Josh Green and Philip Johnson.
38:41
SPEAKER_03: He's down.
38:44
SPEAKER_03: Then find out there's two civilians that have been hit.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
38:50
SPEAKER_03: On the other end.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
38:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a lot of people well, they do.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously back then it was it was well known, but uh yeah, the people I fatally No, no.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: In the the leg and the hand.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh by the suspect or by potentially the officer that was.
39:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I think uh an off uh a bullet actually passed through uh through him a portion of his body and then through the bug.
39:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh continued on.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: And there was somebody in the apartments right there.
39:27
SPEAKER_03: But uh but they were they were fine.
39:30
SPEAKER_03: They were they they survived.
39:31
SPEAKER_03: But you can imagine you got all of this going on now.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: You have people coming out of an apartment who have been hit.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:39
SPEAKER_03: Don't know what their status is.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's the challenge of a gunfight in an apartment complex in the summer when people aren't in school and aren't in work and trying to assess literally within a microseconds where I'm at, what is my backdrop, what is the threat, is that a gun for sure?
39:57
SPEAKER_00: And then trying to be aware of what else may be going on around you.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:02
SPEAKER_03: Too much process for the Sure it is.
40:04
SPEAKER_03: You can imagine those guys when they come out saying they've been hit, you know, the the civilians there, the citizens there in the the complex, and you don't know what what what has happened.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: So they're calling for additional ambulances, uh, you know, for me, for the bad guy, for the the people who were hit.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: Did any any of the the residents of the apartment complex they come try to help you at all, or or like could you tell they they were concerned?
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Because you know, the mis misconception of us and some of our members and viewers is that you know law enforcement uh there is a war on cops, just as you know uh Vice President Gimaldi said a couple weeks ago.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: But for the most part, the general public loves us, they love us being there.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh this anti-police rhetoric is just yeah, it's bullshit.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'll tell you yeah, you're you're absolutely right.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: But I'll tell you this in Tyler, we started years before others, I think, on community policing.
40:58
SPEAKER_03: And I'm telling you, the good people up there loved us.
41:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and when it came down to it, there were some people in the courtyard that witnessed the whole thing, and yes, they came out and told them exactly what happened.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: That the guy turned around and shot me, shot the officer.
41:15
SPEAKER_03: The officer was telling him to stop, let me see your hands.
41:18
SPEAKER_03: So they told him everything.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: So everything I said, they were able to back up, and and uh there's a lot of good folks.
41:26
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of good folks in this world.
41:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and there's a lot of good folks that want us.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And Tyler's a diverse community.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the African-American population in Tyler is is high, but y'all, the the relationship between the police department and the community, it's always it's always been a good strong relationship.
41:45
SPEAKER_03: Oh, absolutely.
41:45
SPEAKER_03: And it was and it was the same back then as it is right now.
41:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, and they they really they stepped up and and told exactly what happened and uh they were worried about me.
41:59
SPEAKER_03: Some of them were.
42:01
SPEAKER_03: Right.
42:01
SPEAKER_03: I hadn't gotten to that part, but yeah, the the good people were worried about me and and were concerned and uh they yeah, they just uh we had the support.
42:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah that's all I can say.
42:14
SPEAKER_03: So you were hit basically on the left tricep and it went into your back or yeah, it went in and it founding out later it it it hit my shoulder blade, that's why I couldn't use my left arm, broke my shoulder blade, and then it bounced uh it was a 38 revolver, and then it bounced down and broke a couple of ribs, went through my left lung and stuck in my back.
42:38
SPEAKER_03: And that's why I was spitting up blood.
42:41
SPEAKER_03: Uh didn't know at the time, but uh while I was having trouble breathing, tasting blood, spitting up blood.
42:49
SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, and the by uh the the uh bullet's still in my back right now.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: I still have it, still carry it with me.
42:58
SPEAKER_03: It was never removed.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: It was too close to my spine.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: They were afraid to uh try to remove it that it would you know paralyze me or something.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: So the doctor told me, I said, that's a no-brainer.
43:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, leave that thing in there.
43:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: You set off metal detectors at the airport?
43:14
SPEAKER_03: Not that I know of.
43:15
SPEAKER_03: There you go.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: That's good.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: So you're shot, land there.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh obviously the ambulance transports you at some point your wife's notified.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh how long what what was the road of recovery look like?
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, the outpour of support.
43:33
SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you what, I was gonna tell you this about being transported.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: My brother got there in time and he rode with me.
43:39
SPEAKER_03: But they blocked the people.
43:41
SPEAKER_03: Some people blocked the ambulance and would not let it out.
43:44
SPEAKER_03: Didn't want it me to get to the hospital.
43:47
SPEAKER_03: They were saying they hope I die, some of them.
43:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh not all of them.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's that there's a group, there's a small group that's gonna act like that, and they tried to block the ambulance.
43:57
SPEAKER_03: So then they excuse me, they finally got.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: Me to the and a funny story about that is we have a Beckham overpass.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: We have an overpass there in Tyler that I knew was shut down that that week for repairs.
44:11
SPEAKER_03: And why in my mind, I'm thinking, Boy, I hope they remember that bridge is shut down and we don't go that way.
44:18
SPEAKER_03: Because then we're gonna have to go all the way around.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: Well, guess what?
44:21
SPEAKER_03: They didn't remember.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: They didn't remember.
44:24
SPEAKER_03: So we got to the bridge and I heard them say, the bridge is shut down, and I'm thinking, I could have told you that, and I should have told them that.
44:31
SPEAKER_03: So anyway, they got me to the hospital, and um yeah, I get there and couldn't still have trouble breathing, and they didn't have time to give me anything, so they had to put a chest tube in, and that was not fun.
44:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, I heard him felt him.
44:48
SPEAKER_03: He said, Okay, this is gonna hurt a little bit.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: I said, a little bit.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: He cut my side and put his finger in there and found my ribs in between my ribs and shoved that tube through my chest wall, and I thought I was coming off that table.
45:01
SPEAKER_03: Well, by this time, my brothers had already gotten to the hospital, you know, Wendell and the nurse that was the nurse.
45:08
SPEAKER_03: And he looked at Daryl and he says, If he's screaming, he's gonna be okay.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: That's exactly what he said.
45:15
SPEAKER_03: Brotherly love.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
45:17
SPEAKER_03: Somebody asked me if I wanted to call my wife.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: You're talking about how my family found out and all this.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: And I said, No, I'll be fine.
45:23
SPEAKER_03: I'll call her later.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: Well, I probably should have had him call her.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: She's still a little upset about that, or you're annoyed.
45:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, almost 20 years later.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: And she found out from your brother in dispatch.
45:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:39
SPEAKER_03: My uh Because they were shopping.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, her sister lives over in Lawnview, and her husband was uh uh Gregg County deputy at the time.
45:48
SPEAKER_03: He works Lawnview PD now, and he saw it on the news.
45:52
SPEAKER_03: That's how that's what I was gonna tell you.
45:54
SPEAKER_03: That's how they found out because the news had happened right before six o'clock.
45:57
SPEAKER_03: The news cameras got there before they showed them loading me up, and it was on the news at six o'clock.
46:04
SPEAKER_03: This happened a little before six.
46:05
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: So their dispatch, Greg County called Tyler P.
46:09
SPEAKER_03: D.
46:10
SPEAKER_03: E, and of course my brother was working in there, so they told him, yeah, who it was.
46:14
SPEAKER_03: And that's how my wife found out.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: Had the suspect had a pretty lengthy history or or or history of violence against law enforcement, or was he what was the he did have a lengthy history.
46:24
SPEAKER_03: Did he?
46:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just dealt with him about two weeks prior to this.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: You specifically?
46:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
46:28
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
46:29
SPEAKER_03: Did you know that was him when you when you guys engaged?
46:32
SPEAKER_03: No, he had a cap on backwards, so I couldn't see any, couldn't see his face, couldn't see anything.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know you've got to watch those people that wear a cap backwards.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: You know?
46:41
SPEAKER_03: You've got to in that case, I just remember that for some reason.
46:45
SPEAKER_03: It's crazy the things you remember, and yeah, you're right though.
46:48
SPEAKER_03: But uh but yeah, I didn't know who he was until until it was all over with, and they they told me, of course, I knew I knew him, I knew his brother.
46:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh but I never had any real problems with him, you know.
47:01
SPEAKER_03: I think it was just he was not going back to prison because he had a pocket full of cocaine and some some weed and two stolen guns.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: When you when you're shot laying there and when you're being transported and you thought at first, well, I was shot in the arm, that wasn't as bad as I would have expected.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: And then you start realizing it's worse.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: Did you start thinking, I guess this is I guess I'm done, this is bad, or did you think this sucks, I'm just shot pretty bad, I'll be fine, but I'm just kind of shot bad, or were you thinking I'm maybe I'm really, really bad?
47:34
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad you asked that.
47:35
SPEAKER_03: We hadn't even talked, we didn't even talk about this before.
47:37
SPEAKER_03: And for you to ask that question is is interesting because I was gonna tell you, I was laying in that ambulance and I was looking up.
47:44
SPEAKER_03: Now, you gotta remember, I was raised in church.
47:48
SPEAKER_03: You know, I didn't miss a Sunday school until I was 18.
47:52
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
47:54
SPEAKER_03: So anyway, you know, being a being a preacher's kid, I've heard the word preached my entire life.
48:01
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't until I was fifteen that I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: All those years of listening and then it sank in at 15.
48:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
48:15
SPEAKER_03: But that day, from that day on, I know where I'm going.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: That was your thought laying in the ambulance?
48:23
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
48:23
SPEAKER_03: Listen, I didn't want to leave my wife, my kids, none of that.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: But when I was laying in there and looking at that light, I knew I was fixing to die.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
48:37
SPEAKER_03: But it's crazy because I didn't cry.
48:40
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
48:40
SPEAKER_03: I didn't cry.
48:41
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't worried.
48:42
SPEAKER_03: You know, I had my wife and my three daughters and my mom and dad and all my brothers, but I wasn't worried about dying.
48:50
SPEAKER_03: I was worried about what they were gonna do.
48:53
SPEAKER_03: Because look, when I leave this world, I know where I'm going.
49:00
SPEAKER_03: And you can't explain that to anybody on what it's like on your deathbed and not have a worry in the world.
49:11
SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
49:12
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, it's funny you asked that question.
49:15
unknown: Yeah.
49:15
SPEAKER_03: Because Yeah.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, laying on your deathbeds, not the time to figure out where you may where your destination is.
49:20
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, you better get it right.
49:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
49:23
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, that's that's exactly what I was thinking.
49:27
SPEAKER_03: Until I got to the hospital and I looked up at the doctor and I said, Hey doc, am I gonna make it?
49:32
SPEAKER_03: And he he laughed and he said, Yeah, you're gonna make it.
49:34
SPEAKER_03: So I said, Okay, that's all I needed.
49:37
SPEAKER_03: That's good news.
49:38
SPEAKER_03: Appreciate that, sir.
49:39
SPEAKER_03: You could have shared it as soon as I rolled in.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: As my brothers are outside saying, Y'all he's fine, he's fine.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: Hang on, St.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: Peter, I'll be back later on.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but no, it's that is that is the truth as far as that goes.
49:50
SPEAKER_03: It is.
49:50
SPEAKER_03: That's and and that's the truth.
49:52
SPEAKER_03: And uh I've shared that.
49:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh I know my wife has been with me.
49:56
SPEAKER_03: I've shared that probably I've shared that testimony to thousands of people.
50:02
SPEAKER_03: Thousands.
50:02
SPEAKER_03: That's heavy.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: Over the years.
50:04
unknown: Yeah.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, I know you've always been a man, uh not only a man of integrity, but just a man of faith.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh and obviously your background with your family, but uh I think your entire family's a reflection of that.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think your entire family is a reflection of who your dad was and what he was about.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: And uh you've never been ashamed to say that.
50:25
SPEAKER_01: And I think that Christianity and faith-based and law enforcement, uh, I'm not gonna say that you know we as a profession are scared of it, but we don't do a good job of talking about it.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: And we don't do a good job of uh sharing, you know, uh these type of stories as far as faith-based and and and knowing where you're going.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: Um so man, if that from my heart to yours, I really appreciate that.
50:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, absolutely.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: There may be one that hears this.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
50:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you better figure it out because once you're shot laying on a gurney staring at a light is not the time to figure out where am I?
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Where am I headed?
51:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
51:07
SPEAKER_03: But that that and you're right, that is uh I think that is what has uh I guess I could say make it made it easy on me.
51:17
SPEAKER_03: I know we at some point we may talk about my recovery like you were talking about, and and dealing with it mentally.
51:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah never had an issue with it.
51:29
SPEAKER_03: Never had a sleepless night.
51:32
SPEAKER_03: And it's weird because I know y'all know this and we've talked about this.
51:36
SPEAKER_03: My brother Clint was shot in 1997, which is crazy in itself, to have two brothers shot at the same department.
51:44
SPEAKER_03: But when he was shot, that messed me up mentally.
51:48
unknown: Yeah.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh I guess because I wasn't there or whatever.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: I don't I can't explain it.
51:53
SPEAKER_03: I I I recorded it on uh VCR, all the news coverage, and I watched it over and over and over.
52:01
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep.
52:02
SPEAKER_03: And that's when my brother got shot in 1997, September of 97.
52:07
SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking, if this ever happens to me, I'm gonna be a basket case.
52:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:11
SPEAKER_03: It's complete opposite.
52:13
SPEAKER_03: I've never, I think about it every day, have for the last 20 years, but I've never lost any sleep over it.
52:19
SPEAKER_03: I've never, it's weird.
52:22
SPEAKER_03: And I'm I I often question myself, I said, Am I okay for not having any problems?
52:27
SPEAKER_03: Should I have problems?
52:28
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: But well, but I think the reality is that is that your your your base, your, your, your faith.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: We had a guy on a couple weeks ago, uh, Greg Stevens, retired garland, and he talked about he he he didn't he didn't get emotional after his incident.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: But for whatever reason, he worked, he was a traffic cop and worked an incident um of a uh fatality accident, didn't know the man, gets home and sits on the edge of the bed, and as as we all do, we just were discussing the incident with with his spouse, and he just said it came over me.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: He began to just sob and cry, and it was uncontrollable.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: And this went on for a couple minutes.
53:04
SPEAKER_00: Over a guy he didn't know, just a fatality accident.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: He went and he said he's uh blubbering on the side of the bed.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm I've it's happened to me, so I completely relate to what to what he you know what that happened, and and he doesn't he he's not I think he's more of a faith-based now, just based off our conversation.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you and and having that that that history of of um you know church and and then your relationship with your spouse, uh maybe maybe you do a better job at coping and and let letting that that release happen.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh just like our members or viewers that that you know maybe don't have that.
53:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe that's why you've reacted the way you did.
53:40
SPEAKER_03: I I that's the only explanation.
53:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:43
SPEAKER_03: That is the only explanation.
53:45
SPEAKER_03: And uh till this day, it's never bothered me.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Ever.
53:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and going through your brothers may have kind of prepared you to go through your own.
53:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's true.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that fitted your brothers.
53:58
SPEAKER_03: I never thought of it like that.
53:59
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't guess, but uh yeah, because you know, when I brought up my brother got shot, I was working day shift, he was on evenings.
54:06
SPEAKER_03: It was September 97, like I said, and I walk in the ER and he's laying there and blood's running down his chest.
54:13
SPEAKER_03: Uh his vest stopped it.
54:15
SPEAKER_03: He was shot in the chest, but his vest stopped it, and that bullet spinning burned him burned him pretty good and left, you know, it was bleeding.
54:22
SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, looking at that and and his partner at the time that he was with when that happened, who was also shot, uh, yeah, there was a lot going on that time.
54:32
SPEAKER_03: And here I am.
54:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
54:33
SPEAKER_03: I've been on for a year and a actually not even a full year when my brother got shot.
54:38
SPEAKER_03: So I'm brand new and got all this going on.
54:41
SPEAKER_03: But and then that's when I thought, man, I'm gonna be a basket case if I ever go through anything.
54:47
SPEAKER_03: And then it happens and it's like, what's wrong with me?
54:50
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm not affected.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: I it doesn't, it didn't bother me at the end.
54:54
SPEAKER_03: I did wake up one time to a gunshot, but I was still in the hospital when that happened, and that was it.
54:59
SPEAKER_03: I haven't since.
55:01
SPEAKER_03: Don't dream about it.
55:03
SPEAKER_03: Think about it every day, but don't dream about it, and have never never had any problems.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: Someone asked the golden question.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh-oh.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: Did you guys go on vacation the next day or did you wait?
55:13
SPEAKER_03: Well, Tyler, this is what happened.
55:17
SPEAKER_03: And it's it's funny, but I actually it's weird because I kept a sense of humor during this whole thing from the time him leaning on my on my arm to the time I was being wheeled from the ER to a CAT scan.
55:32
SPEAKER_03: I see a fellow officer on my way through.
55:35
SPEAKER_03: I won't name him.
55:37
SPEAKER_03: And he looks down at me and he says, Ken, you're gonna be all right.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: And I look up at him and I'm going, Lord, if if I were to die, please don't let that be the last person I see.
55:48
SPEAKER_03: Because he's not the best looking fella around.
55:50
SPEAKER_03: And I've and I just kind of said that to myself and laughed and went on.
55:54
SPEAKER_03: And by that time the medication was hitting, and and I didn't care what happened at that point.
55:59
SPEAKER_03: So so yeah, we I'm in the I'm in the hospital, and the doctor that that worked on me, he's he's coming in and checking on me, and he says, Well, you were supposed to be here for two weeks till we got you up covered.
56:12
SPEAKER_03: He said, But due to your excellent physical condition, there you go.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: You're gonna be out of here in a week.
56:20
SPEAKER_03: I said, Can you hold that until the rest of my buddies get up here?
56:25
SPEAKER_03: I said, they've got to hear this because they're not gonna believe it.
56:27
SPEAKER_03: Because I wasn't the fastest one on the bikes, I was the slowest one.
56:30
SPEAKER_03: And uh they would always outride me.
56:32
SPEAKER_03: So I said, wait till these guys get up here so they can hear this.
56:36
SPEAKER_03: They've got to hear that I'm in excellent physical condition.
56:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
56:39
SPEAKER_03: So, but anyway, I was in there for a week.
56:42
SPEAKER_03: I got sent home, went through physical therapy, uh, got my lung healed fairly quick.
56:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh, went back to work.
56:50
SPEAKER_03: That was in July 31st of 2003, January of 04.
56:56
SPEAKER_03: I went back to work light duty, still getting my arm.
57:00
SPEAKER_03: I'd never had to have surgery.
57:01
SPEAKER_03: That's that's another thing.
57:02
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
57:03
SPEAKER_03: My I'd never had anything.
57:05
SPEAKER_03: Um they were gonna have to go in and put some plates in my shoulder blade to piece it all back together.
57:11
SPEAKER_03: And uh when I went back for an x-ray, they said, can't explain it, but it's healed perfect.
57:17
SPEAKER_00: No way.
57:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
57:20
unknown: Wow.
57:23
SPEAKER_03: That's what I said.
57:24
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's what they thought, but listen, listen here.
57:27
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't, of course, I can't raise my left arm all the way up anymore, and y'all probably don't know that either, but I can't raise it up all the way, but I can raise it up far enough to continue doing what I'm doing.
57:38
SPEAKER_03: Right.
57:38
SPEAKER_03: So I was off and went back light duty in uh January of 04, and then in June of 04, eleven months later, I was back on the street.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: Remarkable story, man.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: So you said you handled it well considering how about your family?
58:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh I thought they did pretty good, and my wife held up pretty good, I think.
58:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh seemed to be anyway.
58:07
SPEAKER_03: But you know, I well might it's funny because I had uh I had a a daughter, my daughter Kinzie was three, and then my daughter Alison was like eight months old, and then Emily was twelve or thirteen.
58:20
SPEAKER_03: I can't remember how old Emily was.
58:22
SPEAKER_03: They were all around that age.
58:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
58:24
SPEAKER_03: And uh I think Kinzie had the best advice out of everybody.
58:30
SPEAKER_03: She said, Daddy, next time you shoot the bad guy first.
58:33
SPEAKER_03: I said, you know what?
58:35
SPEAKER_03: I said, That's some pretty good advice.
58:38
SPEAKER_00: She said, This isn't hard.
58:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
58:40
SPEAKER_03: You you know, three years old.
58:42
SPEAKER_03: And uh, so and then you know, my eight-month-old, they they really were good though.
58:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it fortunately they were young, so they don't really remember all of that.
58:51
SPEAKER_03: Uh Emily does, but the two little ones don't.
58:54
SPEAKER_03: And then the one person, the one human being on this earth that is glad I made it through.
59:01
SPEAKER_03: Out of everybody, not my wife, not my mom and dad, just my son Ryan.
59:08
SPEAKER_03: He wouldn't be here.
59:09
SPEAKER_03: He wasn't born yet.
59:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:11
SPEAKER_03: And he reminds me of that.
59:13
SPEAKER_03: So he's glad I made it or he wouldn't be with us.
59:16
SPEAKER_03: And now he's a senior in high school.
59:18
SPEAKER_00: So well, the big question is when it happened, your wife was shopping for you guys to have stuff at the beach.
59:24
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever get to wear the speedo that she bought you for the for the beach trip?
59:29
SPEAKER_03: Not until the following year.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
59:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: Did you still have it today?
59:33
SPEAKER_01: And you were still in in impeccable shape because a man of that quality does not deteriorate because of a gunshot wound.
59:41
SPEAKER_00: He brought his speedo with him today, in fact.
59:43
SPEAKER_03: He does.
59:43
SPEAKER_03: I actually put on about 20 plus pounds and I'd never been that big in my life.
59:47
SPEAKER_03: I sat up in my chair and ate and uh while I was recovering, of course.
59:52
SPEAKER_03: Right.
59:53
SPEAKER_03: But uh, yeah.
59:55
SPEAKER_01: Clint likes to ask this question what does the 22-year-old Ken Gardner tell the viewer, the watcher, listener out there, uh advice from you at that point.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, get your life right first.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be solid advice.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_00: Hard to have your professional life in order if you personal life.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_03: You can't, you can't, you can't, you know, make that decision early on accept Jesus Christ.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_03: Everything else will fall in place.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_03: You're gonna have ups and downs, you're gonna bump some roads, but whatever is meant for you, you're not gonna be alone.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's how I dealt with it.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_03: That's the only thing I can imagine without having any.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_03: So that's the first thing I would say.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh and it's coming up through your career, as y'all know.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_03: Y'all been doing it a long time.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_03: Treat people right.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_03: You know, our our relationship with the people in that community, we treat everybody good.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_03: And it showed that they supported us.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_03: We had no problems from the community anyway.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: You brought something today that is cool that I want you to share with me.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_03: This I was telling my wife when we came down here, I said, you know, I hadn't taken this thing out maybe three times I've taken this thing out of the box in 20 years.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_03: So we'll start thinking about everything and and going over everything.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_03: I was just gonna come show you guys because I thought it was pretty wild.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_03: So uh this is actually the gun that shot me.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_03: Or the gun that was used to shoot me.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_03: We know we know who shot me.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_03: But this is the gun that shot me.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_03: Uh it was stolen, it was a stolen gun.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_03: And it's still actually this is still the box from uh from the evidence.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_03: Once the case was disposed of years later, yeah.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_03: I get this.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_03: Still in the same box, still in the same wrapper.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_03: I hardly take it out.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_03: Stolen from there in Tyler?
1:02:20
SPEAKER_03: Yes, in the out in the county area.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_03: Still has the uh the DPS sticker on it from when it was tested.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_03: Um still has a a mark on the grip from one of the officers who had to return fire, unfortunately, uh while he was pointing the gun at them.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_03: And the uh, of course, all the evidence and autopsy proved that he was pointing the gun at the the other two officers when they had to stop him.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_03: And uh right here on the on the wooden grip, there's a there's a mark from a bullet.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_03: So this is the gun, this is the gun that was used to shoot me, and the bullet that came out of there is uh still in my back right now.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_00: And and for our non-law enforcement uh listeners, one thing that's amazing is so often we teach and we train and we talk about you're gonna shoot what you're looking at.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just natural, especially when you're snapshooting and you don't have time to get a sight picture and you're just point shooting.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: You you shoot at what you're looking at.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_00: If you point at something, you you point where your eyes are focused, and a notch in the gun from an officer returning gunfire to him, the officer was looking at the threat.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_00: He was staring at the threat so hard he shot the gun.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's it's crazy.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_03: And I believe that was probably the first shot because it stopped it and they didn't get shot.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: It struck the weapon you you you um described and then traveled up his arm.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of what stopped the threat.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it went through the web of his hand into his arm.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_03: The only way that angle could have happened is if it'd been pointed it at him.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: And uh and that that's the gun.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_03: And the our uh our local police association, the Tyler Patrolman's Association, reached out to uh the the owner of the gun.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if they bought it or if he gave it to them, but either way, yeah.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh they got it from him.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: I honestly could say that I've known a lot of members uh that have been shot or injured, and I you're the first one I've for you to have the gun that that didn't did that to you that day is it's pretty remarkable.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it wasn't his gun, so it was going to be returned to the owner because it was a stolen gun.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_03: And once it was, then he turned it over.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_03: That's cool.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_00: When it got presented to you the first time you see it, felt it, was that a was that weird, was that a weird moment?
1:04:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, it was a little bit, but I didn't re Again, the whole thing just hasn't hasn't bothered me.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_03: So seeing this, I'm thinking, well, that's cool to have.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, and that didn't do it, it was a bad guy.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_03: That's why I said this is the gun that shot me.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_03: Well, it's the gun that was used to shoot me, is what I should have said.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_03: And I think I corrected that.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, yeah, that's the uh that's the gun, and it's it's pretty wild.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_03: Um I still have a lot of this stuff from back then.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_03: I've got my uniform, I still have my uniform shirt.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_03: They cut it off of all things.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_03: I know.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_00: Firemen love to cut clothes off of the colours.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_00: They do, and it was the fireman.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: Especially cops cut our clothes off, yeah, and belts and everything else.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's uh that's what they did.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_03: And I still have that.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_03: I have uh all the articles.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_03: I have everything.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_03: I just haven't looked at it in years.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_03: Years and years.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, like my wife said, I don't know if she's ever even to be honest with you, I don't know if she's ever even seen this gun.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: Huh.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_03: We're 20 years into it.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_03: So uh maybe she has.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_01: But well, brother, I can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing your story.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a powerful story.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's uh it's one of resilience, and it's also about about Jesus and and your relationship with him and uh and your pride relationship.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: With them.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: And man, I I can't I just can't say enough about you.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_01: You're a great man.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_00: In the Gardner family, yeah is freaking golden.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you want to talk about all American, good people, nuclear, tight, close-knit family.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: It's like the McCoys and the Hatfields.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_00: If you you mess with one Gardener, you you didn't mess with one Gardener, you've messed with all of them, and you better strap up because they're coming.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: And I think I think the tightness of your family and your parents.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_00: Um unfortunately, a lot of America could learn a lot from the Gardner family.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_00: And we might not have some of the problems in this country if the terms of families were still as close, and and that was a priority to people as it used to be.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_00: And I've always respected that about your family and the tightness and the example you guys have set for others.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_03: And you're right.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh I think mom and dad did all right.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_01: Heck yeah, they did.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, man, we're gonna shoot some uh no punt intended.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna fire off some three three questions.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't I didn't mean to say shooting.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you something.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what Tyler.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_03: You never know what he's gonna say.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_01: You two are responsible for hiring me, so that y'all are the blame for the case.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: According to you, he wasn't there.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's okay, yeah.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_01: Damn, you got me on that one.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_01: All right, all right.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_01: Favorite cop movie or line from a cop movie, favorite cop card, and I've got faith, Ken Gardner.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_01: Do not let me down.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_01: And third, best drink of preference.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh I don't watch movies.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_03: Never have.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_03: I don't like to sit down and watch movies.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_03: So that one's out.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh the police car you said?
1:07:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh I did like the mid-90s caprices.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_03: My man.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_03: The uh the big fast caprices.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_03: Shamu, ugly ones, the blue.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you something.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_03: Those were those were good.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_03: Those things were.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_01: Moving on, and uh, your favorite drink?
1:08:07
SPEAKER_03: Don't really have one.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_03: I don't as y'all know I don't really drink a whole lot.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_03: So I don't.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_00: All right, I think fair enough, fair enough.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_03: But the caprice is probably okay.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_01: You're circling back here.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_01: You're trying to.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad we reiterated that.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_03: The Chevy Caprice.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_03: The Caprice.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, this about wraps it up.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_01: Clint, you got anything?
1:08:30
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_03: What was the card?
1:08:31
SPEAKER_03: It was the Chevy Caprice.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_01: Probably the late 90s.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_01: Hit the like button.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_01: Let us know how we're doing.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_01: If you need to get in contact with us, it's bluegrit at tmpa.org is our email.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: Again, that's blue grit at tmpa.org.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_01: Again, hit that subscribe button.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_01: And guys, if you would please download the uh podcast episodes because that's kind of how we measure uh our success on the uh the listen-only platform.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_01: So that's all I got.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_00: And we're we're open to sponsorships.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh um we wouldn't mind Chevy Caprix being the first sponsorship of the podcast.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_01: Be safe, guys.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: God bless you.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: And as always, but God bless Texas.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: That's a wrap.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_01: Cut it, snap.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_01: We're done.