Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 516 - Why a Tech VP Used A Spreadsheet To Find Love? - Olapolala

Transcript

516 - Why a Tech VP Used A Spreadsheet To Find Love? - Olapolala · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, welcome to the Vietnamese podcast.
0:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Today I have a wonderful guest, Ola and Ola is a really multi hyphenate.
0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You've done so much in your life and you talk about so much.
0:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a very difficult thing for me to figure out how to approach this conversation because I know that.
0:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm aware that you are, you know, you talk very deeply about many different topics.
0:25
[SPEAKER_01]: your mother, your former tech person, you've been a director at a tech company, you have done so many different things in order to speak about all these things in such a concise manner.
0:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You do it in both Vietnamese and English.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So welcome to the Vietnamese podcast today.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel very honored to be amongst your very, very, very cool guests
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just excited to connect with you as a fellow Viet Kio.
0:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for having me.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You're very welcome.
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm surprised it's taken this long.
1:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hope that because we overlap on so many different issues and topics that I hope you come back regularly and you know talk about the ways that you see the world.
1:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I, wow, I feel even more honored that I was earlier.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much for that.
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I would love to do that.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Can we start by talking about how you got started with content creation?
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was actually writing a script about this today, because I'm going to start another new channel.
1:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about another time.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was working since I was 15.
1:46
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of very privileged childhood and my parents worked so hard like many of our Vietnamese parents do, you know, our immigrant Vietnamese parents, you know, doing everything to give us the lives that they didn't have.
2:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So I grew up not really blacking for anything, you know, materially it was, it was all given to me.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course with that came also a lot of pressure to perform and to be at the top of your game, 100% of the time.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure a lot of other Vietnamese kids feel this way where you know you have.
2:22
[SPEAKER_00]: sort of a set number of jobs you're supposed to do when you grow up and you kind of can choose just from those options and whatever it is, it better be making you a lot of money and and giving you a stable life, right?
2:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Because these are the things our parents, unfortunately, you know, through our our sad history of our country, they couldn't have.
2:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So in their minds, this is the way to happiness and this is the thing they want to impart
2:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I took that on very seriously, um, my parents divorced when I was a kid.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's such a long way to answer your question.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're here for it.
3:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so my parents divorced when I was very little and my mom, um,
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't have much but she gave me a lot of love instead and she so so I got like a really nice balance between my two parents of different things and and I always felt like I have to do really really well and excel very fast.
3:26
[SPEAKER_00]: so that I can take care of my mom because she sacrificed everything, right?
3:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So I felt that weight of obligation and duty towards her.
3:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I finished high school before I turned 17.
3:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So I finished a university before I was, what do I say?
3:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I finished high school before I was 17 and I went to university and I kind of was always on this super fast train, you know, the shinkansen, the bullet train, and Japan, like that, I was always on that ever since I was like yay high and I studied psychology and then I went to
4:05
[SPEAKER_00]: the UK and I studied like fashion marketing and I just kept going kept going and I had so many jobs like what you were saying like I've been in so many different industries and in every industry I was on I was like I need to figure out how I can get the next promotion I need to do better I need to push myself harder and before I realized I was a 30 year old that had been working for 15 years already
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: and I was about to get promoted to VP at the tech company that I was at and I was so burned out because while pandemic was happening and everyone had time to kind of slow down this the area of tech that I was in which is immersive and virtual and augmented reality that was the space that was like booming at that point.
4:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So
4:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just like, even on a faster train, right?
4:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, go, go, go.
4:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I met my husband that year.
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was the first person to ask me, are you happy?
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had never really had anyone ask me that to sit down and truly ponder.
5:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, I'm not happy what is happiness because we're so long in my head happiness was being a good daughter, happiness was being a good student, happiness was being a good worker, happiness was you know having the financial means to provide for my mom and so I never really thought about it and when he asked me, I felt like he pulled like this thread that like unraveled everything that I knew my life to me.
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was one of those moments where I am so grateful to him that he he he asked me and I realized I don't think I am happy.
5:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I've ever really explored What it means to be happy yet, and I don't think I've let myself tap into certain things like creativity And so that was the moment where I was like
6:05
[SPEAKER_00]: How can I get myself to a place where I can just experiment with stuff, and then figure out what makes me happy, but still
6:15
[SPEAKER_00]: like make money because I still need to take care of my mom and I don't want to be a burden to anybody else.
6:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do I do that?
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me four years because I'm very risk-averse to plan my exit and plan how I'm going to do that.
6:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I come from a marketing background.
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay, let's just give this social media thing a try and for all the bad sides of social media, there's the good side of, you know, how it democratizes income.
6:41
[SPEAKER_00]: There's ways to, you know,
6:45
[SPEAKER_00]: explore and be able to make money.
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay, let's, let's give it a go.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, and that is the 20 minute long answer to your question.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's fascinating because like so many of us, I think there are so different ways to get to content creation.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And we bring with it a bag of experiences from so many different, you know, jobs and professions that we,
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And you talked about ADHD at some point.
7:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You talked about depression.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You talked about dating, you know, the 46 guys that you had on dates with and tracked it.
7:28
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much that you offer.
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the 20 minute or whatever entry was an entry.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a six minute introduction.
7:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: who's counting.
7:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's not worthy to hear that journey before we understand who we're talking to today.
7:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking to somebody who's actually been through a lot of stuff and I think that it's worth diving into before we get started.
8:07
[SPEAKER_01]: was wondering in the beginning of my own journey to go into two different directions, both in Vietnamese and in English.
8:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And you have chosen to do both languages simultaneously.
8:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk about that?
8:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And because you seem to be
8:26
[SPEAKER_01]: the same person in both languages and oftentimes I find people become two different people in each language like you know separate people but you seem to be the same very precise person in both languages but what's the decision between um you know do the content in both languages?
8:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very kind of you to say that because I think there was a massive gap between who I was in
8:54
[SPEAKER_00]: because I think a lot of us will feel that that we grew up in a language that we were most exposed to.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So even if at home, my parents did speak Vietnamese to me, I, they were busy working.
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So the amount of time of exposure and immersion in Vietnamese versus what I got in school outside the gap was huge.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So I decided to learn Vietnamese when I was 10.
9:17
[SPEAKER_00]: My grandparents were still alive at that time and they had sent me like tapes
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you remember these books or if you ever used them, but they're like things weird.
9:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like number one on it.
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the most basic Vietnamese books that kids use in school.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So they used to send me this stuff and I would learn Vietnamese by myself.
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I
9:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Somehow felt like I could never get enough words.
9:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a really talkative person as you could tell from my six million show.
9:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I can't, ah, there's like a block inside me.
9:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And I speak five other languages.
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: in which I am able to do that.
9:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, what gives like, why can't I be an adult in Vietnamese?
10:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of got stuck in being like 11, 12.
10:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I was doing the content, I was consciously thinking, I really want to explore being Vietnamese more.
10:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I,
10:20
[SPEAKER_00]: was 30 and I wanted to consciously like live deeper into my Vietnameseness, like I was missing it, you know, and I wanted to like like bathe myself in the Vietnameseness of things, you know?
10:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was craving it so much.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought to myself, okay, why don't I do a test?
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love running tests.
10:43
[SPEAKER_00]: which if we keep talking you'll see more of um but i was like why don't i run a test i'll do some content in english i'll do some content in Vietnamese and i'll see where it takes me how i feel and like um and while i'm gonna do that i'm gonna force myself to get better in Vietnamese so i hired a Vietnamese teacher for myself and a Vietnamese teacher for my husband and i was like okay you learn Vietnamese because you have to do that as my husband and i'm gonna learn Vietnamese so i can
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: get better at Vietnamese, not particularly for the content, but for the growing up part.
11:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And the growing up part was such a motivator because I realized my parents were seeing me as a kid, which all parents do, but I was particularly when I speak to them in Vietnamese.
11:31
[SPEAKER_00]: they don't get to meet adult older.
11:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't, or what I really do for work.
11:36
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't really know however you're the world.
11:38
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't really understand what I think about specific, you know, subjects that just require a bit like more depth and vocabulary because all I could say was just very basic things.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so I got a teacher, my amazing teacher, if you guys are looking for Vietnamese teacher, I'm plugging her because she was so cool.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, for me and my kids too.
11:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to come down to you.
12:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and she we just did online lessons.
12:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I asked her specifically.
12:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't want normal Vietnamese lessons.
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to give me
12:12
[SPEAKER_00]: topics that adult Vietnamese people talk about.
12:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I don't care what it is.
12:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Like talk to me about trauma.
12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about psychology.
12:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about relationships.
12:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about changes and laws in Vietnam.
12:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like talk to me about anything.
12:27
[SPEAKER_00]: that will make my brain work, like an adult brain works, but in Vietnamese, I want that.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah, and then as I kept doing that, and I kept doing the content in Vietnamese, I saw the growth on TikTok was insane.
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, people were craving information that they didn't have access to, and I, I think I saw the biggest growth once I became pregnant.
12:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And the geek that I am, I was deeply researching being pregnant.
12:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, like we go through pregnancy because it's like one of the things that just naturally occurs in nature, right?
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And us women especially, it's like it's coded in everything, and I are like, entire distance.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But what do we really know about pregnancy?
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what we just take facts as they are?
13:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, what is the research behind every single thing that happens in
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I, my full-on OCDEDG just went crazy with pregnancy and the more I researched, the more I was like, oh my god, this is so interesting.
13:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to share this with other people.
13:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would talk about it.
13:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I ended up having to hire a person that would translate my scripts.
13:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would write them in English with my research and they would translate them into Vietnamese and this is the big secret is that I would get someone to just translate my thoughts, right, because I was like,
13:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not explaining anything to you guys like you guys will be explaining things to me.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like I need someone to know how to say the thing I'm saying in English.
13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that ended up being a way to learn more Vietnamese in itself.
14:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's been kind of like a journey of creation but more than anything like learning for me.
14:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And so much vocabulary that I could just absorb by having to read someone else's,
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: words and Vietnamese.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's my words, but translated, you know, like words, I lack.
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was, that was really fun.
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And all the moms, like pregnant moms, moms that had already given birth, they were like, I could tell they didn't have access to this information.
14:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was really nice to feel so useful and like have a community of people with that crave, you know, the same
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm listening to it, but just playing, I'm playing my own experience of consuming your content, though the Vietnamese content.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a lot more smooth than you're explaining it.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to believe.
14:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, it's so, it's been two years, right?
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been two years of seeing and improving a language, right?
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's why.
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That I think that definitely made a difference.
15:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's,
15:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know of you follow at this girl called Jessie Jean, but she Jessie Jean.
15:17
[SPEAKER_00]: She did just did this thing called the app challenge.
15:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, anyway, so she has this phrase that she uses is like reps over a research and I think that's basically what happened is that I kept doing it.
15:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I kept doing those videos and I was like, oh my god, my Vietnamese is really in privilege and my mom.
15:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the other day my mom was like, wow, you like are having a full conversation with me.
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm never going to forget that it reps over research because I'm all about research over reps because it's just laziness, right?
15:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just like researching because we're just lazy to do the reps, you know?
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We're procrastinating, but yeah, it's quite a perfectionism though.
16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is, right?
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's avoidant, right?
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just being the real work, the you got to get to the gym.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to write, you got to do the work.
16:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's a creator I just found Joseph when he had an interview with Rick Ruben.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: He wrote a book, um,
16:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically this idea that we are not who we think we are, and I forget the name of the book, you know, sorry, sorry.
16:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you please?
16:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
16:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
16:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he talks about, you know, when he goes into, you know, I think it's his fourth book, but when he goes into writing, he shuts down and filters out everything, and he just does the reps. You know, no more research.
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We're done.
16:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We've soaked in life.
16:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We've lived life.
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And here we are.
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just going to attack this exercise at hand.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just going to do the reps right now.
16:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's amazing, you know, yeah, I'll never forget this all that.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for bringing that up.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're absolutely amazing.
17:05
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not even my words, you know?
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just repeating someone else's words.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It's awesome because, yeah, you know, I just recently got really into painting and nice.
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah, there's like a, like a month or two ago, but I haven't painted.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just been researching.
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm gonna, uh, today's July 24th.
17:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm going to give you two weeks to pick something.
17:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want anyone else but I want to see a picture of it.
17:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Friday, two weeks from now.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, hold him accountable.
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: No research.
17:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Just put it on.
17:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a man.
17:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Two, you've got two weeks.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: That's more than enough time.
17:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything.
17:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And the beauty of research is this, especially when it comes to something that you don't know about like painting is something I've you know, I'm 50 and I've avoided that because my father and my brother were great artists so I've always avoided it like that's not my domain like speaking is my domain you know writing whatever I've always thought of myself that way but not a visual person so I now but now that I'm researching
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: painting, I've learned so much about process and about living and about, you know, these artists like have had these wonderful ways of seeing the world that I just was not privy to.
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And then now I'm going to museums a lot more with my children and it's just like, it's open up this beautiful.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, research is not bad either, but rather the rest.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I do think as I
18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Freaking love research like if I I research anything like anything in my life I'm I'm there like I'm reset if I am get interested in anything at all you know I'm going to be giving you a full-on like yeah, red sheet You know, I'm giving you a presentation on things like I I'm gonna document every but that's the problem It's that when you get bogged down in it too much and you don't produce and you're just sitting in your brain I think that's when when we lose
19:06
[SPEAKER_00]: the productivity, right?
19:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And we lose out on practice.
19:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you're just learning, then you're not really practicing, right?
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that stuff with me on her thing, I was like, okay, yeah, I need to just do it, just keep doing stuff.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, so I want to introduce to the audience, Ola and I are going to have a new podcast called reps and research, where we talk about, but
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, it's happening right now.
19:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You heard it here first.
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about spreadsheets because you brought that up right now.
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: 46 days.
19:42
[SPEAKER_00]: How much time do you have, Mom?
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of time.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I have three more podcasts, but today is like my podcast day.
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's usually Wednesdays, but I've been you know, I'm today's I've three more after this.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So Because I only only save one day to do all my podcasts once a week, you know, I'm in now, you know, phase where I could just do all in one day
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to talk about spreadsheet and dating 46 dates and your husband is number 43.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to know what gave you the idea of this spreadsheet and why was he 43 and then there's three more and how did that like how did that process all widow down to him and like I want to know about that and then the other side of this conversation is something I'm
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: fiercely fascinated about is the idea of dating Vietnamese, dating outside of Vietnamese.
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something I talk about all the time and I've gotten into some hot water talking about this.
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But dating happens to be my favorite topics in my life because...
20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Me too, because it's not about dating.
20:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about human psychology, right?
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about connection.
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about so much more than dating.
21:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like dating doesn't do it justice with it's right?
21:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the word dating takes away from what dating really is about.
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about human seeking belonging, right?
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what dating is.
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You're finding another person that will create
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Safe space for you to feel like you belong and they can belong to the problem with people like you and me with our third culture is like There's three cultures going on the Vietnamese, the Western and then the third culture and that is been the trickiest part of my life Not to air my laundry, but you really tricky thing to do.
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna air it out one day in a book, but For the moment that's the trickiest thing and I want to hear more about your journey
21:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so 46 dates.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was living in Mexico, and...
22:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I was living in Mexico and I went to Iceland for a trip.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was right before the pandemic.
22:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So as I was in Iceland, I get a call from my dad and he's like, epidemic is happening.
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get stuck in Iceland.
22:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You better leave right now.
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I flew back to Poland at the time to try and figure out, can I get back to Mexico?
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what's the deal?
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: What's happening in the world?
22:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got to got stuck in
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: in Poland and
22:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I was working remotely there and I was working on U.S. time while being in Poland.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had like all the time in the day to do stuff and I was so into my friends.
22:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, you should like, you should try online dating.
22:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everyone's doing that right now because there's nothing else to do.
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, but I'm still happy by myself.
22:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm so I finally got to a place where my life is just like, you know, like it's working, you know,
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: the job is working like I'm working out, I'm eating healthy, you know I have time to just like read and things were good like I like being with myself and and they were like yeah but you always wanted a family so like you know you're gonna be 30 and what are you gonna do about that?
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think hearing them say that to me, and not my parents were the pressures always been on.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my parents, by the time I was 29, they were like, no one's going to marry you.
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's too late, like, you don't do that.
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, what I was like, yeah, they gave up on me.
23:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was like, damn, yeah, if I want to do or seriously do, have a family, it is definitely that the biological clock is ticking.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And in my head, I was thinking 20, 2020, I wanted to move back to Europe anyway to be closer to my family, to spend more time with my parents, because I had left Europe since I was 21, so it's been like nearly 10 years.
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay, it's time to come back and the plan was to come back later in the year.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to come back in a way that I wanted to buy a house in Sicily and then learn the skills to fix things with my hands So like I wanted to learn plumbing and I wanted to learn like how to, you know, like put tiles on there on the On the walls like I wanted to learn like really useful human skills, you know, and I was like how do you fix like
24:29
[SPEAKER_00]: stuff when electricity goes bad.
24:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I wanted to go to Sicily and like become an apprentice to someone and be like, can I please learn these things and then I buy a one-year-old house and then learn to fix it up from scratch and then, you know, that was like an idea that I had and I was like, and I'm sure.
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: one day I'll be like towel shopping.
24:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And also like I don't know if you've ever seen tiles in Sicily, but they're so similar to Vietnamese tiles.
24:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They use those tiles like on their walls, but Vietnamese tiles that we use on floor.
25:02
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like, you know, it's so connected.
25:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's part of why I wanted to be there.
25:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, one day I'll be tall shopping and then I'll like reach out for it while and then someone else will reach out for the same tile and it's like my, you know, love it.
25:19
[SPEAKER_00]: My, um, uh, Nance Myers movie, right?
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get that and and all's well that ends well and but I was like, okay, I'm 30, the pandemics here.
25:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay, go on then.
25:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me try this out.
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna give it a go.
25:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna do this online dating thing because I had never done it before because I completely missed that boat.
25:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in a very serious relationship.
25:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I was engaged and then it literally just broke off before like while I was in Mexico basically.
25:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had a good time to just be by myself and clear things out.
26:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, do I wanna do this again?
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I had had a lot of really not great relationships, minus the one where I was in last, but I was like, there's been a pattern somewhere in my life where I was not dating the right person.
26:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I kept thinking,
26:25
[SPEAKER_00]: What is with that?
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I've done a lot of years in therapy.
26:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Why am I not able to find someone right for me?
26:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And anyway, the problem was me, because I didn't know how to find the right person.
26:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know how to say what I needed.
26:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
26:44
[SPEAKER_00]: When I did this online dating, I was like, okay, let's download Tinder because I didn't know.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even know other apps existed like, right?
26:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was new to this.
26:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it downloaded Tinder and I was like, this is a meat market.
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what am I doing here?
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so overwhelming.
27:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, it's scary out there.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And Kudos to anyone who does it.
27:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And it freaked me out.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It really freaked me out.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And...
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I was on it for an hour, just kind of like trying to process what the heck's going on.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I don't think this is for me.
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So I deleted the app.
27:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I deleted the app, I should caveat this.
27:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you're going to leave it in the podcast or not, but I should caveat this that like months before that just a few months, like a month or so before that I went on a mushroom trip, my first mushroom trip of my life.
27:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that.
27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know anything out.
27:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, and I went on a spiritual journey.
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like, oh, and partying.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It was from like, I did all set and set and thing.
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really wanted to find out a lot of things about myself and how my brain works and why my relationships in my life with everybody.
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: My family, et cetera, are shaped the way they are and what is there that I can do to improve them, et cetera.
28:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: my mind was very like in that state of problem solving, you know.
28:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I deleted the app, that was, that was my like reaction behavior.
28:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But the minute I deleted it, I was like, hold on.
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: This, this action is connected to some kind of fear and that fear is the fear of change.
28:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And if that fear of change is there, then it is up to me to challenge myself to it.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, God, David, why do I do mushrooms?
28:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, download it again.
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like, download it again, but I was like, okay, just apply your systematic thinking to dating, right?
28:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Create the method to the madness and set it up in a way
28:57
[SPEAKER_00]: like you can be less afraid, right?
29:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Like go step by step.
29:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So that like create a comfort zone within the discomfort zone that you'll be in.
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, and I love spreadsheets so much.
29:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just, I think they are a great way to organize anything and I think anything can have a system and systems are out there to help us if we're not.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You gotta stop right here.
29:22
[SPEAKER_01]: What are the columns?
29:26
[SPEAKER_01]: in the spreadsheet and what were the parameters of like, you know, you go on the date, did you change the parameters as you went through the system or was it a fixed parameter and you're like, all right, I'm going on 50 days or whatever and I'm going to keep to the pillars of my columns like how does this work?
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a map I'm asking for a friend, by the way,
29:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sure, I'm actually I'm not to have a workshop on this, so tell your friend.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm asking for a friend, by the way.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it was three months before my 30th birthday.
30:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like three months.
30:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give myself three months, and I'm a very intense person.
30:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I do something, I'm going to go full throttle.
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm going to, you know, I think it's ADHD, right?
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the obsessive, even ADHD.
30:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I'm going to smash the hell out of data.
30:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Adidas got to be much bitch.
30:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, how can I make dating the most Asian thing possible?
30:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Get us spreadsheet.
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay, what is it that I'm actually seeking?
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And the trip that I had on my mushrooms really helped me like clarify a lot of stuff in my head.
30:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I need a system that will help me balance out how emotional I am as a person.
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: like I feel a lot and I think just the way I grew up and I'm sure it has a lot to do with you know us not hearing I love you a lot as kids like I went the other way right like I empathize a lot with people and I I love things like I you know like I give all of my feelings to everything so I was like I think
31:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent 29 years of my life loving love so much and wanted to build my perfect nuclear family that I didn't have, that I forgot to figure out what is the love that I'm actually seeking?
31:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is the relationship that I actually want to have?
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay,
31:49
[SPEAKER_00]: How can I balance out all of this with this?
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, put this on the spreadsheet, right?
31:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, let's put down the core values, things that are non negotiables in my life, things that like are,
32:03
[SPEAKER_00]: liver die for, right?
32:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, what are things that I want in another person that match the things that I live by and I that I'm striving to live by?
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I was like, otherwise it doesn't work, right?
32:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Because once the chemistry fizzles, what's left, right, is to keep with that.
32:22
[SPEAKER_00]: don't really know each other or like, you know, try to build life that go with different directions.
32:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the fact that my parents divorced and that it affected me so much was like the fear factor driving that right like like I don't want to find somebody again and have it fall apart again.
32:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I find someone now we're getting married or I'm going to spend the rest of my life living alone being happy at totally cool.
32:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But at least I can say I
32:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so core values I had the columns where my core values and they had numerical values assigned to them, so like in terms of importance, so 1 to 10, 10 being the most important, so like kindness was 10 ambition was for even though you think oh wait why ambition for like don't you want someone who's ambitious yes, but for example, someone who's diligent and hardworking.
33:19
[SPEAKER_00]: that core value was an eight for me because just because your ambitious doesn't mean you're going to get anywhere right like you need the hard work you need to do it you need to put in consistency to actually achieve something so I'd rather have someone who's willing to put their heads down and do stuff rather than just be you know dreaming about something big so so I put all those core values in and then I created questions so I created
33:47
[SPEAKER_00]: over 140 questions was 146 questions that I used to collect my data.
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would go on an obviously like, I wasn't asking people like, oh, question number three, can you like explain your relationship to your mother for me?
34:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it wasn't like that it was more like,
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: a cheat sheet that I could use when I'm out there feeling things, you know, because it's hard to not feel things, you whether they're positive or negative, you're feeling things, right?
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: When you first meet people, so I want us to have a cheat sheet that would help me,
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: remember to ask things and to keep my head cool, right?
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And like to see, do we actually align on where we want to go in life and in love?
34:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is this just like, you know, we're feeling some kind of
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: attraction towards each other and then you know nothing will happen.
34:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So so that's how I was doing I would go and then if I would go to the bathroom or someone would go to the bathroom might be like taking little voice out of my like this is what he answered to this and then be like, oh, ask a follow-up question or like, oh, this is so I would put then a numerical value towards the answers as well to like try and assess if they are really meeting my core values and the most important thing is like
35:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not about judging other people, whether they're good or bad.
35:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, are they right for me?
35:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, yeah, those numbers, like it's not about judging it.
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, is it much for me, right?
35:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, are those numbers things that I'm looking for?
35:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I had.
35:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was so honest about it.
35:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so honest about doing this.
35:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I went on my first date, I already talked about it.
35:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, this is what I'm doing.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it sounds delusional and it sounds crazy.
35:34
[SPEAKER_00]: sitting here on this date, but this is what I need because I'm at a station my life with this is what I'm seeking.
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you are going through this, right, the first I feel that you do, you probably already know that this is not going to work out.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you still go through with the whole thing just so you can get the empirical data going?
35:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so, this system made it so easy today.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: In a way, once I became brave enough to actually fully be met.
36:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I, at the beginning, I was definitely a lot more like, oh, I feel bad about not going on another day.
36:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also tried to control the variable, so I tried to like bring the same alert to everybody.
36:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Because otherwise, it's like not scientific.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not really scientific.
36:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is, right?
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I need to be 100% me.
36:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Do the same.
36:30
[SPEAKER_00]: effort for everybody that I'm seeing because then it's up to them if they want to do the same effort for me.
36:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I don't bring the same level then I can't say that they're reacting to the same thing, right?
36:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Because my comment I'm not interested then it's of course they're going to mirror that.
36:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had to really force myself to be like come and
36:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you don't feel it with someone, right?
36:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you meet them and you're like, uh, but I was like, okay, just give them a chance to do this and try to see if they resonate on your frequency or not.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was dates, yeah, that I would go and I'd be like, this is not going to work and I would not go on the next date.
37:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And once I was brave enough to say no, like this really helped me with my people pleasing, it taught me to be like, no, next.
37:19
[SPEAKER_00]: and explain to someone like, this is what I'm after and I guarantee you there's someone out there that's way better for you because I already know this is not going to work and I'm not going to give you what you need so it was hard it was hard because learning to say no it's like and it's especially in those kind of situations where you're you know you're also vulnerable right emotionally it
37:44
[SPEAKER_00]: but it was really rewarding in a sense that once I stopped playing games because that's another thing that the system required was you don't play, you would deliver 100% of who you are authentically shamelessly and that's the only way to get the other person to deliver that from themselves.
38:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had two guys that I went on one date with and on the second date they would say to me, I really want you to meet my mum.
38:11
[SPEAKER_00]: first I was like what like what why do you like what would it like at the first guy I thought like what's wrong with this guy right?
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my second day But then I realized oh my god, it's because it's not that I'm special.
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing special about me It's that authenticity and vulnerability have become so rare now in dating where
38:32
[SPEAKER_00]: People wait a couple of days to respond to a message, you know, they like they don't ask what they want to ask They don't say what they want to say and then I think that's the thing they responded to it I realized that I was like This system might just work like this system might just make dating actually find me a husband, right?
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like so so that was that was a big turning point for me and I was like, wow, you know, this is men
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: took their, you know, they let go of their guard as well.
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And they let the guards down.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And they, they were just, you know, a human connecting to another human.
39:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And for guys to say, you know, I want you to meet my mother.
39:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very rare as well.
39:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they were ready clearly to be vulnerable with me.
39:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciated that so much.
39:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not go meet anyone's mother.
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's also really cool.
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this system in this way of thinking can be applied to so many different things in our life if we think about it, right?
39:33
[SPEAKER_01]: If we get allies.
39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But before we get to that, I do want to know where their second dates, their dates, fourth dates that you went through and was their new systems that yet to build for the second, third, fourth dates.
39:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I think the system kind of builds on itself.
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there was definitely some people that I went on more than one date with and the system builds on itself because you have so many questions to ask and the questions that I first started with they continue because to really get to know someone you kind of have to
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: ask over and over again right or like figure it out over and over again.
40:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they react in one situation in one way or they're answer one way and then you're still not clear like oh is that really how they live or is there more to it and also it's through observation.
40:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think I don't think I necessarily built a different system.
40:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I just
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: continued with that and also there was little things that I would do.
40:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm a mega node and geek and I love playing board games.
40:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was a couple of people that got to the board game stage where I organized board game nights with people in my life like friends or family and I would observe how they play those board games with me and the people in my life
40:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds really simple because it's just like you're just coming over to hang out, right?
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Because loads of people do that during dating.
41:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, it was really specific.
41:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I was like, games bring out a certain thing and all.
41:10
[SPEAKER_00]: right and it shows it shows who you truly are and I am so proud of myself that I did that because there was one guy that I nearly went for.
41:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I nearly gone for him and he was just before my husband and I did settlers of Katan at my house with my niece and my nephew and he would not give me wheat and he would not give me the wheat guys so I was like yeah I don't think
41:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He was quite he was really selfish in games like so selfish and I like yeah, you don't It could be nothing for other people, but I a one of my core values was generosity and the generosity to kind of like
41:58
[SPEAKER_00]: that kind of spreads throughout, right?
42:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in games is so easy to just be quite selfish, right?
42:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's a game.
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: But in games, you don't think people will see who you truly are.
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think in games, that's where your true self really comes from now.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Now for sure, for sure, I remember going on a trip and
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: it was with a bunch of guys and after the trip, a bunch of guys was like, you know, you turned off a lot of people.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just all guys.
42:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a shooting game.
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, with real, with real guns, and we're out in the middle of nowhere.
42:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, you turned off a lot of the guys that, um,
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: and I was so blown away when that person said, and he was being honest and truthful, and he said, the way you compete was a real nasty way.
42:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh my God, this is a few years ago, and I really learned from that.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I really think that person for telling me because they were older guys or much more, you know,
43:05
[SPEAKER_01]: on the social scale, a lot bigger in magnitudes than where I am in my station in life.
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were just like, yeah, and I was like thinking about it.
43:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my god, everything he said, Ola is what you're saying about the games.
43:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, they were able to see.
43:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just the only, you know, I was like 14 guys.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember home to guys, but
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say 10 or 12 guys.
43:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I was the only US Marine.
43:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I was only military person.
43:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a history of of shooting guns, but I'm not a gun.
43:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I've get I don't believe in guns because of my, you know, just my life and just approaching that day or that few times that we went out to shoot.
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I showed how insecure I was because
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I can't compete with them on the bank account or the what they've done and achieved, then I'm going to show them that that I can shoot and technically I can shoot because I was trained to shoot and I know how to breathe when I shoot.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't say any of that.
44:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just, you know, it was just a way I carried myself and people can read it and I learned a lot.
44:21
[SPEAKER_00]: to this thing telling me this now as well.
44:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for sharing that.
44:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That's such a like, yeah, I've never told anybody this.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've never told anybody this, but it was a really eye-opening and, you know, I really appreciate the person who did tell me, and it's, you know,
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I was not invited back to that thing, but so listening to you talk about this.
44:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're being watched at all times and there are these Instagram channels that are dedicated to like it's so funny.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how I stumbled into it, but it was because I was watching the art painting ones where I don't know how it introduced me to like things that
45:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
45:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Without wearing the Armani or the Versailles cheese ship.
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: These are small things that people can see that when they're in a super high class, they can pay attention.
45:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't have you, you have no control.
45:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You have no idea what they're looking at.
45:21
[SPEAKER_01]: When they're looking at you, trying to be trying to level up in their financial sort of like level, right?
45:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So the same thing happens, you know, in dating what you did with the games and then, you know, me being invited out to, you know, this, you know, week or retreat with these guys.
45:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's these subtle things that we don't know.
45:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we go on and continue living, we can begin to kind of like pull back, observe, grow and from these painful.
45:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And that brings me to this thing where I prepared like 30 questions for our interview, but I only got to dating with you, and I'm still not even done with it, with a dating thing.
46:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And it learned so much from your technical ability to kind of like see things, break them down systematically.
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But you are, you know, you've driven different clips
46:17
[SPEAKER_01]: with business ideas, mothering so many different relationship things, not just with dating, but like between interpersonal relationships.
46:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're gonna have to do this more regularly, although I wanna hear.
46:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, how do you announce it?
46:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Come in, what are you talking about?
46:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we have to do a stop series.
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: This is fascinating.
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the games is fascinating, okay, but let me finish up with the, I have so many questions about the games.
46:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So, how did you end up deciding about your husband?
46:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I really want to ask the idea, okay, so two questions.
46:58
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you end up with your deciding that this was the man for you?
47:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other question is, how much divinity means heritage or being a Vietnamese person play into the decision?
47:11
[SPEAKER_00]: huge.
47:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, let me answer the second question first because it was huge for me and I and I have a chart of like the nationalities that I dated because I was like, it won't be science if I don't give kind of like if I don't take a bigger sample of a data.
47:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you actually made a clip on dating Vietnamese men.
47:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, there's so much going on here.
47:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I mean, I had been dating Vietnamese men most of my life really.
47:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, dated Vietnamese men before a lot more than I dated at any other nation.
47:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the heritage was huge to me because
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we were talking about the three, three cultures, right?
47:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the stuff that we grew up with, like there's so much ambiguity growing up with so many different things that you kind of don't know who you truly are.
48:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
48:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so there's a lot of like to have along here to have along there and as I was growing up and I used to live in Vietnam like 60 for six years, like when I turned 21, I went to Vietnam by myself and I decided to stay so that period really let me kind of
48:27
[SPEAKER_00]: understand a little bit more about who I am.
48:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really liked being Vietnamese.
48:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I really I really appreciate being Vietnamese.
48:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And my side of the family on my mom's side is huge like my grandparents had so many kids.
48:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So we there's like a Vietnamese identity that that side of the family constantly kind of update and upgrade as the next generation moves forward.
48:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're
48:57
[SPEAKER_00]: um, edit our own way of the Vietnamese, but it was, it's constant.
49:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The, the, the, the fact that we are Vietnamese is constant and a lot of the kids in our family, even the younger generation speak Vietnamese and I think that was huge for me because I was like, I can't date someone that's not going to understand where it comes from.
49:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and the western side, I think is really easy.
49:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's easier because, you know, I'm in Europe, I'm dating in Europe, like people are going
49:26
[SPEAKER_00]: finding someone who's going to understand that being with family, going to family meals, or having to see your grandparents every week, or taking your parents to the doctors, even though you don't have to.
49:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You're little things that make us Vietnamese.
49:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They are so important to me.
49:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I moved back to Europe, because I was like, I've been
49:52
[SPEAKER_00]: way too far.
49:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to see my parents so little.
49:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I want more of that in my life now.
49:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really was seeking someone who would culturally understand that and who would be willing to learn Vietnamese if they didn't already speak it.
50:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So I definitely did Vietnamese people.
50:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I dated mixed Vietnamese people during that time.
50:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I realized that the Mediterranean culture, Latino and Mediterranean cultures are quite similar to the Vietnamese culture, and I dated a couple Italian guys, and my husband is Italian.
50:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only is it Italian, but it's actually Sicilian, and the Sicilian culture, which
50:36
[SPEAKER_00]: done.
50:38
[SPEAKER_00]: The Sicilian culture is so similar to Vietnamese when it comes to those like traditional values and he happened to be someone who also was born in a different place.
50:48
[SPEAKER_00]: His parents are mixed British Irish Sicilian and then he traveled the world so he's
50:57
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a musical director, well now he's a composer and producer as well, but he was a touring musician, so he had been touring since he was 17.
51:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So he understands that kind of, you know, shifting home.
51:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
51:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So he got that as well.
51:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we met, um, I have to say,
51:16
[SPEAKER_00]: you can plan for everything, you can research for everything, you can create systems for everything, and then the universe is gonna be like, yeah, okay, whatever, and they're gonna, you someone, and then you're gonna be like, oh, this shit, this like, this bitch, blown out of the water, I, the first date, first date with my, and also like listen to this, like how crazy, our first date we met was a 10 PM.
51:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And we went on a drive, and we went to Park in London, nighttime.
51:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have a daughter.
51:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give her that as an example of something not to do with this.
51:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty easy.
51:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why would you do that?
51:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also stalked him when you before that.
51:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I knew a lot about him before I went.
52:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's, but, um,
52:02
[SPEAKER_00]: When we met, I mean, to be honest, when we matched already, the conversation was constant like it was not like it was like two people that had already been married in like an alternate universe like two people that like it was
52:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy to talk about that.
52:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We're six years together right now, right?
52:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm 14 months plus part of it.
52:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We've just gone through one of the toughest periods of our lives.
52:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But I could not be more grateful that that's the person I decided to have a family with because that system that I had.
52:37
[SPEAKER_00]: is the reason why I had the easiest toughest time of my life.
52:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the reason why I'm able to do the work that I'm doing right now.
52:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all of those reasons.
52:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the importance of the right partner.
52:55
[SPEAKER_00]: like we don't think about it enough and how it dictates our lives goes.
53:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, when we met, I was like 10 out of 10 of everything because it was just working.
53:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm like, what?
53:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had to check myself because you asked me, why did I go on 46 days if this guy was 43?
53:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to check with myself.
53:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, is this chemistry?
53:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like messing with my brain?
53:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how is this guy scoring so high on all of this stuff?
53:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So I intentionally went on three more days.
53:24
[SPEAKER_00]: to make sure that this guy is actually, you know, meeting the stands out towards standards with the things that I was looking for, right?
53:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is this is, and yeah, and I think, I mean, we found the right match, we were compatible, and and as we've been living the last six years together, we, yeah, everything that we said on those dates,
53:51
[SPEAKER_00]: all this stuff we talked about, we've lived there.
53:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the most amazing thing to have because how often are we with partners that were disappointed with after?
54:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, ladies and gentlemen, if you likely you heard from all of the dating professionals, imagine all of the business
54:17
[SPEAKER_01]: where we were not deeper into, I think dating, we have to keep going because I think that this is so fascinating.
54:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, if anybody's following you online, Ola Polala, Ola P-O-L-A-L-A, and I'm curious now you got that name, but we're going to get into it next on the next, we have to do this very, again very soon because I still have so much
54:43
[SPEAKER_01]: about the dating system.
54:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, asking for a friend.
54:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we can begin to shift over into the other interesting things.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you and I definitely share this ADHD sort of, um,
54:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We go all and we go hard when we get really fascinated by subject.
55:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do want to thank you for coming on today.
55:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have so much more to discuss.
55:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.
55:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you so much.
55:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, and I also really enjoyed it.
55:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also enjoyed or deeply appreciate it.
55:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Your moments of vulnerability, because I think those are the moments I live for.
55:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I love connecting with people on that level.
55:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really truly, truly, deeply enjoyed it.
55:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll thank you so much.
55:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You're very welcome.
55:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And to more vulnerable moments in our future podcasts.
55:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please.
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
55:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
55:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
55:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
55:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.