Latest / Sports Avenue Twisted Podcast / Episode 48 - feat. Kevin Niebly - The State of the Washington Nationals

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Episode 48 - feat. Kevin Niebly - The State of the Washington Nationals · Sports Avenue Twisted Podcast

0:26
Welcome to another edition of the Sports Ave.
0:28
Twisted podcast. We have a guest in here who's
0:31
part of talking nuts and it's such an interesting time for for
0:36
the nationals. What's going on today in
0:38
baseball? Kevin Nibley, welcome to the
0:41
show. Just let the world know what you
0:43
do and everything else. Yeah, thanks a lot guys for
0:46
having me. I appreciate it.
0:47
Yeah, I basically, I'm a commenter and I do the podcast
0:53
whenever someone wants to discuss something with a
0:56
representative, Talk Nats. Visit oursiteitstalknats.com.
1:01
It's one of the best baseball blogs on the Internet.
1:05
It gets really, really in depth, goes way more, you know, into
1:09
prospects, into amateurs than the Washington Post.
1:14
And it's also just a great community of Nats fans.
1:18
You know, a lot of us meet up at the stadium and, you know, have
1:22
have made friends kind of for life with that.
1:24
So it's it's one of the best baseball blogs on the Internet.
1:27
And I, you know, please check it out.
1:29
It's talknets.com and on X at talk Nets.
1:33
And then I'm on X at K under score Nibley.
1:36
And you know, thanks for having me guys.
1:38
I appreciate it. That's awesome man.
1:40
Thanks for joining us. It's it's you guys have a fast,
1:45
passionate fan base and we're excited to, you know, talk about
1:49
what's going on with the nationals because it's such a
1:52
such an intriguing situation and such a talented team, very young
1:58
team. So we're excited, man.
2:00
We're excited to have you and we're excited to talk Nats.
2:03
Let's go man all. Right, let's do it.
2:06
First question I want to ask you is we saw the breaking news that
2:11
happened over the weekend and that's manager Dave Martinez and
2:16
the GM Mike Rizzo, who's been with that organization since
2:20
2006. And now that he's no longer with
2:25
with the organization, what were your initial thoughts about that
2:29
both of the firings? Yeah, I was, you know, excuse
2:33
me, the Davy, you know, you could see coming.
2:37
The team had an 11 game losing streak, you know, with the
2:41
Rockies and the Marlins in there and, and the team just looked
2:44
pretty uninspired. Davey himself looks asleep in
2:48
the dugout. A couple times the camera caught
2:50
him almost dozing off, you know, and he just looked defeated and
2:54
and really bad body language when he would come out for
2:56
pitching changes, things like that.
2:58
So Davey, I think a lot of us saw that coming.
3:00
I, you know, a lot of us probably thought that was going
3:03
to be more end of the season. They might let him ride out the
3:06
season out of respect for, you know, him being a World Series
3:09
manager. But the Rizzo was the shock.
3:12
I mean, I don't think many Nats fans thought they would fire
3:16
Mike Rizzo at GM Rizzo, You know, I've made this joke
3:20
before, but it's, you know, in a town full of political
3:22
employments and, you know, senators who've been senators
3:25
for 30-40 years, You know, Rizzo just seemed like he was on that
3:28
track, like he would be the GM for life here in Washington.
3:31
So you know, him getting fired was a huge shock.
3:36
Nationals the in replace of those two they they promoted
3:41
Mike Debartolo to to interim GM and infielder former infielder
3:49
Miguel Cairo is the manager now. So Debartolo looks like he's
3:54
saying all the right things and and impressing the media and
3:58
he's been there since 2012. So what are your thoughts on
4:01
those two hirings? Do you see Debartolo being given
4:06
that job long term or do you think that they're going to go
4:10
outside the organization, do a full blown search for him?
4:13
And what do you think about Miguel Cairo as the interim
4:17
manager? Yeah, no, yeah.
4:20
To Bartolo, it's interesting. He's been Rizzo's assistant, I
4:24
want to say, since 20/11/2012. So he definitely knows the
4:29
organization. He's comfortable with the
4:31
learner ownership group. I don't know if they're going to
4:35
give him the job full out, but he's definitely talking like
4:38
they are. He's, you know, already made
4:41
some moves, you know, some roster moves, signing a couple.
4:45
I think Luis Garcia not not or you know, the one from Houston,
4:50
but the the bullpen guy, he's kind of been around the majors.
4:54
He's already made a few roster moves.
4:55
They, they also gave him the job a week before the draft, which
4:59
is interesting and, and you know, a couple weeks before the
5:01
trade deadline. So maybe it will be his job.
5:04
It's, it's interesting to me that that you make a change at
5:07
general manager at such an important time in the
5:09
organization where you have, you know, one of one the first
5:14
overall pick. And then also, you know, the
5:16
trade deadline in a couple weeks where really you could do a lot
5:19
of big things like potentially trade Mackenzie Gore, maybe
5:22
trade Luis Garcia or second baseman.
5:25
So, you know, in terms of the GM spot, I think it's really wide
5:29
open and and the Barlow does seem, at least with the
5:32
interviews he's given, like he's moving forward, like it's his
5:35
job and it's his job, you know, in the future to build the team.
5:39
Cairo, I would think it's just kind of a seat warmer.
5:42
I I think he's just here to finish the season out.
5:45
He's it was an awkward situation.
5:47
He's actually really close with Davey Martinez.
5:50
And when they they offered him the interim manager job, he had
5:53
to actually think about it for a night and talk to Davey to make
5:57
sure he had his blessings. So, and I believe the bardo even
6:01
said in an interview that they just didn't want to shock the
6:04
players and change everything all at once.
6:06
So they, you know, they didn't want to fire the whole coaching
6:08
staff and do anything too crazy. So I would say Kyra's probably
6:12
just here to the end of the season and they would do a
6:14
managerial search, you know, in the offseason.
6:17
But in terms of GMIII don't know.
6:20
I I think it'll be really telling what kind of a deadline
6:24
the Nets have. Like if, if the Nets just have a
6:27
predictable deadline, like maybe they trade Kyle Finnegan or
6:31
maybe they move Nate low or something, you know, expected
6:33
moves like that, then potentially they might be going
6:37
outside for AGM. But I would say if the deadline,
6:39
if they do something big like trade Mackenzie Gore, trade Luis
6:43
Garcia, I would think at that point, then it probably is the
6:45
Bartolos job because, because those are big franchise moves
6:48
that you wouldn't just let someone who's filling in, you
6:51
know, do So I, I, I think we'll learn a lot in the next month in
6:54
terms of how much power the Bartolo has.
6:58
So quick question here, is that with Miguel Cairo, I don't think
7:03
he has any experience as a manager at all, right.
7:05
So he's in terms of this, is he? Did he did a a brief I think?
7:09
With the White Sox. Yeah, you heard now when Tony
7:12
Larussa got. Larussa Yeah, yeah, that's yeah,
7:14
I think he came. In for like a month or so.
7:16
So I I think his career, his record with the White Sox was
7:18
like 18 and 16, something like that.
7:21
But other than that one little month or so, yeah, no, I don't
7:24
think he's ever managed. Because there's guys like
7:26
Brandon Hyde, who's you think that will get a job immediately
7:30
and he just just got fired from Baltimore.
7:33
As you can see that he was clearly not the pro.
7:35
I could see that or, or blood black.
7:38
But the problem with blood black is like the way baseball is
7:40
going, like he like his managerial skills doesn't fit
7:43
his style. Today's baseball.
7:45
So I'm curious about that. So with that being said, the
7:48
next question I want to ask you is how do you assess the season?
7:52
Because you know, there was a lot of, you know, initial
7:55
thoughts heading into the season that this team would finally
7:58
take the next step because they've been going through a
8:00
rebuild for the last few years. And we'll talk about a lot of
8:04
other stuff later on. But like, when you looked at the
8:07
season, you look at the way it's built with some young talented
8:10
players right now, like and getting a guy like Nate Lowe in
8:14
the offseason thinking that he was a veteran bat that would
8:17
help lineup. But we know that the pitching
8:20
still an issue. But what were your thoughts
8:22
heading to the season and why has it been a disappointment so
8:25
far that led to those fires? Yeah, no, it's it's been a
8:29
really disappointing season for Nats fans.
8:32
If you had told me at the beginning of the year, you know,
8:35
that James Wood would essentially be a superstar.
8:38
Like he's basically replaced Juan Soto.
8:40
He has a 950 OPS and I wanted, I know he hit a home run last
8:44
night that was either 23 or 24. He's he's basically on pace for
8:47
40 homers and and he's a superstar.
8:50
Essentially. He's he's one of the best
8:52
sitting outfielders in the league, you know, under Otani or
8:55
Judge. I mean, if if you told me that,
8:57
I would have been really excited if you told me CJ Abrams, you
9:01
know, was OPS ING 8 to 850 at shortstop.
9:05
And and if you told me Mackenzie Gore, you know, was close, You
9:10
know, depending when you look is either leading a league in
9:12
strikeouts or or right, you know, they are in second or
9:15
third and it's going to be an All Star, you know, and
9:18
basically a real legit one or two in a rotation.
9:21
I I would have thought the Nats would be 500 at, you know, and
9:25
if not threatening a wild card, at least playing some meaningful
9:28
baseball pass the All Star break.
9:30
But for whatever reason, and I think the reason this is maybe
9:34
where it comes down to Rizzo is, you know, all the supplementary
9:38
talent that they got, you know, around Wood Gore and and and
9:43
Abrams, you know, it's been very disappointing.
9:46
You know, the Josh Bell signing really hasn't worked out beyond
9:50
got hurt and really hasn't done much.
9:54
You know, they signed Lucas Sims and Colin Pokey in the bullpen
9:57
and they both got DFA Ed within the first month or two.
10:01
You know, and then Kaybe Ruiz just for whatever reason, just
10:04
hasn't gotten it and, and you know, he's hurt now.
10:07
But they always, you know, they were, they played them.
10:09
They play them almost every game and burn them out.
10:11
And I don't think he's hit a home run since the opening
10:14
series against Philadelphia. And yeah, the rest of the team,
10:18
other than these three young stars and Gore Wood and Abrams,
10:21
you know, it's been really disappointing.
10:22
And and that's why the Nats haven't been very good this
10:25
year. And I think that's why, you
10:27
know, both the Rizzo and Martinez got fired.
10:31
You mentioned James Wood. I mean, this guy is
10:35
unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, like superstar like
10:39
like you mentioned. And I mean 287 average, 24 home
10:43
run, 69 RBI S, 12 stolen bases with the 939 OPS before the All
10:50
Star break. This is and this is essentially
10:54
his rookie season. I mean, he only, I mean, crazy,
10:56
right? Yeah.
10:57
Right. It's just it's it's insane.
10:59
Like I was talking with a friend of mine the other day and Rocky
11:02
and I'm like this guy, I believe he has multiple MVPS in him one
11:06
day like he's that good and just just elaborate on a man.
11:11
The floor is yours. Prop up your guy, man.
11:14
Prop them up as much as you want.
11:16
Go for it. Yeah, no, I, I, I say this, I,
11:19
I, you know, I'm originally from DC.
11:21
I lived, but I did live in New York and, and Queens
11:24
specifically for a long time. I have a lot of Mets friends,
11:27
his friends. And, and I would say this is how
11:29
good James Wood is, is literally if the New York Mets called you
11:32
tonight and they're like, hey, we want to trade you one soda
11:35
straight up for James Wood, you would say no.
11:37
I mean, you wouldn't even you would hang up the phone.
11:39
You would basically would say, well, maybe you have to eat half
11:43
the money in a deal or you have to start throwing in prospects.
11:45
On top of that. There there need to be a lot of
11:48
kickers to even consider trading, you know, Wood for
11:53
Soto. And and that's that's the truth.
11:55
And and that's how good James Wood is, is, you know, he's just
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one of five players in that deal, but he's already replaced
12:01
the guy you traded and you know, and you still have these other
12:04
guys that you got in that package.
12:07
But no, he's great. I mean, I I think he profiles a
12:10
little bit more like an errand judge to me than Soto.
12:14
He his power tool is, is crazy. The way he hits.
12:19
He hits, you know, if you look at his straight Shard on his
12:22
home runs, a lot of them are opposite field.
12:24
I think probably more opposite field than pull by a lot, you
12:29
know, and that's crazy that he has the ability to hit it the
12:34
other way out. I, I was actually in Miami early
12:37
in the season for our series there and I, he hit one out the
12:41
opposite field and I think they had the roof open down there and
12:45
it the Miami people, like the announcers and all the people
12:48
around the Marlins. I don't think anyone's like ever
12:50
hit a home run oppo to the spot. He hit it and they were just
12:54
blown away on like a line drive. So now his power tool, his power
12:58
tool's the best I've ever seen for anyone who's ever played for
13:00
the Nats. I'll I'll put it that way.
13:02
So let me ask you this. When that trade went down for
13:06
Juan Soto a few years back, what were your initial thoughts when
13:10
you trade him? Because I know like Juan Soto
13:12
was that franchise player for you guys at the time.
13:16
And just just what were your initial thoughts when you when
13:19
you saw the deal go down and and you saw the players involved?
13:23
Yeah. You know, at the time I I
13:25
thought it was the right move only because they did offer him
13:30
an extension that it was leaked in the Washington Post a month
13:35
or so before. You know where at the time I
13:37
think they offered him around 440 or $450 million.
13:42
And and at that, I know now with like Otani and all these people
13:45
getting 700 or what, you know, Sodo getting these crazy deals
13:48
that seems cheap. But at the time, I think that
13:51
was the biggest contract in baseball and well, I think Trout
13:55
was at like 429. So, so before they trade them,
13:58
they did offer him a huge contract and and he turned it
14:01
down and he didn't make a counter offer.
14:04
So that that I think told the franchise the fact that he
14:07
didn't counter, you know, you're going to lose them.
14:10
And, and sadly, this franchise, since the World Series, you
14:13
know, we've lost a lot of really good young players.
14:15
You know, we've lost Harper, we've lost Turner, we've lost
14:18
Rendon, you know, and so I, I, I do think the franchise and the
14:26
fans were just sick of watching these guys walk away.
14:30
So at least when it was time to trade Soto and the fact that he
14:33
turned that deal down, I think it made sense.
14:35
And we weren't even anywhere close to competitive at the
14:37
time. And 2022, I think we won like 55
14:41
games or 57 games, something like that.
14:44
So it made sense to get what you could for him.
14:46
And and yeah, no, I mean, and the players they got back, you
14:50
know what you're seeing now, you know, three of them in in 4
14:54
Abrams and and and wood or or All Star level or or superstar
14:59
level and wood and, you know, and I think Robert Hassle, he
15:02
had a an injury that's kind of kept him from really making an
15:07
impact yet in the majors. But I think he's you know, at
15:10
the end of the day, I think he'll be a solid corner
15:12
outfielder and and Susanna the pitcher, you know, if nothing
15:16
else, I think he he profiles as like a really good back end, you
15:21
know, closer of the future PC throws like 102 or something.
15:25
So, you know, I think it was a good trade, but it was it was
15:28
tough. I do think, you know, being a
15:30
Nats fan is, is been kind of an interesting experience in the
15:33
sense that that 2019 run was so unexpected and so amazing and
15:38
everyone was so happy with it. But but since it's kind of
15:41
definitely been like a purgatory of sorts where, you know, you
15:45
didn't even really get to celebrate that World Series
15:47
because there was COVID the next year and barely a season and you
15:51
couldn't even go. And then, you know, you couldn't
15:53
even really go till 2021 in Washington to see a baseball
15:57
game. So you didn't even like get to
15:58
celebrate winning in 2019. And then slowly all of the stars
16:03
from that team have left and gone to other teams and other
16:06
teams in your division, which is like extra rough.
16:08
So yeah, it's been tough. I mean, but, but I do think
16:11
that's Soto trade was a good trade and and at that time the
16:15
organization needed a total reboot and and they definitely
16:18
got a lot of players back that have helped that.
16:20
So I think it was a good move for them.
16:24
It was a great move in my opinion.
16:25
So I mean that's that's what's holding up right now for that
16:30
for that organization. So I want to talk about two
16:33
players that you guys have. I mean they were drafted right?
16:37
One was Dylan Cruz who was drafted 2 years ago in Paul
16:41
Skins deal. I mean it would have been Paul
16:42
Skins and Dylan's Cruz. There were teammates in LSU.
16:45
Dylan. Dylan Cruz was off to an
16:47
underwhelming start and I know there was a lot of hype about
16:51
him being that other cornerstone player besides James Wood and
16:56
the fact that he's been injured. And I don't know what's going on
16:59
with them. Like talk about him.
17:00
And then there's another player that I want to talk about who
17:02
just recently got called up. That was Brady House, which I
17:06
was pretty high in him and he was off to a very slow start in
17:09
the minors when I when I followed him.
17:11
And now he looks like he's great starting to become a player.
17:15
So talk about those two players. What do you think about those
17:17
guys? Yeah, no, Cruz, you know, he's
17:21
an interesting, you know, it made sense to draft him where
17:24
they did with schemes off the board.
17:25
He, you know, is either going to be Cruz or Wyatt Langford, both,
17:30
you know, similar profiles. Put Cruz in college.
17:34
You know, I think it made sense that he had the edge at the time
17:37
of the draft, that Cruz is an interesting player.
17:39
And I think he'll be a great. You know, I don't think he's
17:42
going to be a superstar like James Wood, but I think he'll be
17:45
a really solid outfielder, you know, great defense.
17:49
I think he definitely his power was starting to to show up
17:53
before the injury he had He has an oblique injury and so he's
17:58
been out for a couple months and I I think they say he's swinging
18:01
a bat now. So hopefully he'll be back soon
18:03
enough. But those injuries are tricky
18:05
because you don't want to like rush him back and have him re
18:07
injure it, you know, but but I think Cruz profiles as you know,
18:12
plus outfielder. I think he's probably would be
18:15
better and right, but you know, very plus arm.
18:18
Even this season he's thrown out a few guys from right field.
18:22
You can put him in center if you had to and he could play it
18:25
pretty decently. He's not as good of a center
18:27
fielders Jacob Young defensively, but but you know,
18:30
if you want to kind of go more bat loaded outfield, you could
18:33
screws can play center And you know, I think when hopefully he
18:36
stays healthy. I think you know, his hit tool
18:40
in the majors in terms of his average hasn't quite been there
18:42
yet, but everything's else has been there.
18:46
You know, I think when he puts it all together, he profiles as
18:51
you know, like a 8 to 850 OPS kind of guy, like 2020, you
18:56
know, steal some bad, maybe 3030 in his prime, steal some bags,
19:00
hit a few homers. I I think he'll be good, maybe
19:04
not a superstar, but good. And and Brady House, he's come
19:08
up and yeah, his his slugging, his power hasn't quite been
19:12
there, but he's definitely been like the best defensive third
19:16
baseman we've had since Rendon. You know, we've had a lot of
19:19
bathroom baseman in the last few years.
19:21
So it's nice actually just have a guy there that when a ground
19:24
balls hit that way you're not, you know, waiting for an error
19:28
or holding your breath. He's he's hit for average.
19:31
He's he's figuring out the majors.
19:33
Yeah, he really has. He's had a few double S, but
19:35
he's yet to hit his first home run.
19:37
But you know, that's that is part of his game is slugging.
19:40
So hopefully you'll see him hit a few out of the park at some
19:44
point as he adjusts to some, you know, just to the majors.
19:47
And I do think he'll be a solid player, you know, to be
19:52
determined whether he'll be All Star level or anything like
19:56
that. But I think they're going to
19:58
probably give him an extended run.
20:00
So I would think third base is his for the rest of this year
20:03
and probably next year just to see what they have there.
20:07
So who would you say has been some of the pleasant surprises
20:11
that you're for the Nationals on both pitching and and and
20:16
offense? Like who are some some names
20:18
that you, you know, you look at and you're just like, you know,
20:21
you just having a pretty good year.
20:23
Yeah, it's unfortunately, it's really just, I mean, those stars
20:27
that I mentioned I, I don't think anyone expected would to
20:30
be quite as amazing as he has. And CJ's been really good.
20:35
You know, he, CJ had been up and down his first couple years in
20:40
terms like his plate discipline's been an issue at
20:43
times, but he's seems to have gotten better with that.
20:47
He's definitely, he's worked some longer at bats lately out
20:52
of the lead off spot. He's improved.
20:53
And then Mackenzie Gore has made a really big jump.
20:56
I guess I'd say Gore has made the biggest jump in terms of
21:00
going from a guy with, you know, strikeouts, you know, but but
21:06
going with a guy who who struck out a lot but also gave up a lot
21:08
of home runs, a lot of, you know, had eras in the mid fours
21:12
the last couple years. You know, Gore is definitely
21:16
made the biggest leap to where he looks like a full blown ace
21:19
or, you know, he's rounding into where I could see in a year or
21:21
two when he's really in his prime being, you know, a real,
21:25
real ace, you know. So those are the the three most
21:31
I, I guess like pleasant surprises in terms of these
21:35
young guys becoming stars, in terms of more off the radar
21:38
guys, sadly, we haven't had a ton.
21:40
I mean, I guess I would say in the bullpen, Cole Henry, he was
21:45
a starting pitching prospect. He didn't quite make it, but
21:48
he's been pretty useful out of the bullpen.
21:50
And then Brad Lord is another. He was originally a starting
21:53
pitching prospect, but then we're, I think we're using him
21:56
essentially as like a setup man to Finnegan and sometimes
22:00
Ferrer. So yeah, Lord is in terms of off
22:03
the radar, Brad Lord's been pretty good at the plate.
22:05
Unfortunately, you know, we really don't have, I mean, Luis,
22:09
Luis Garcia's kind of been Luis Garcia.
22:12
See, he swings at everything, doesn't walk a lot, but, you
22:15
know, he'll hit 27280, you know, poke a few out every once in a
22:20
while. But yeah, no, unfortunately at
22:22
the plate, we, and that's why the record isn't where it needs
22:26
to be, is, you know, we just really haven't had any
22:28
breakthrough guys that have come out of nowhere.
22:31
Yeah. What What about Ahmed Rosario?
22:34
Yeah, he seems to be having a little bit of a nice, I mean,
22:37
one year deal. Somebody, somebody that you
22:40
could move at the trade deadline that could probably help some
22:43
help a contender. No, that's a good point.
22:45
Yeah, he looks like he's having a decent year.
22:47
Every time I turn around I say, oh, he's had a home run.
22:50
You know I mean once in a while 5 right?
22:54
And, and that's another Davey Martinez thing.
22:56
I, I, it's, I'm, I'm glad you brought that up.
22:58
I think I forgot about him. Because they don't play, they
23:01
play them only they play them. You know they they don't.
23:04
Play very right. Yeah, yeah.
23:05
So it's like, so in my mind, I'm like, oh, well, this isn't some
23:08
guy that's really had a breakout.
23:09
But yeah, no, they, they play them every so often, mostly
23:12
against lefties. But yeah, no, he, he has had a
23:15
nice season. I, I, you know, I, I, it might
23:19
be nice to see them work him in more into ADH platoon because
23:23
Josh Bell is a righty. Josh Bell hasn't really even
23:25
been that great as a lefty this year.
23:27
But you know, Bell is a righty is, is usually not the best.
23:30
So yeah, no, Rosario is a, is a part time kind of utility guy.
23:36
Rosario has been really good at the play for sure.
23:38
In the field, not so much, but at the play, yeah, He's he's
23:42
good. And you are right.
23:43
Like, he will be a guy, he's not going to fetch, you know,
23:46
anything crazy, but he will be a guy that some team will take at
23:49
the deadline is bench death for sure.
23:53
Another name I want to bring up is Jake Irwin.
23:56
Irwin. So what do you think about him?
23:58
I know he was off to a slow start, but he's been pitching a
24:00
little bit better. Like is he an integral part of
24:03
this rotation moving forward or? It's that's hard.
24:07
Yeah. No, it's a good point.
24:08
And it's hard to say. I mean, last year he was great
24:11
in the first half. He looked like an All Star in
24:13
the first half. And then he had AI think he hit
24:15
a wall and he had a really bad second-half.
24:17
And this year's been up and down.
24:20
And then again, not to to rag on Davey Martinez, but part of his
24:25
inflated ERA, too. Is there been a few times this
24:27
year he's had a really bad start, you know, a bad first
24:30
inning or two and Davey's left him in to to to wear it, you
24:34
know, for six or seven innings, give up eight runs.
24:36
You know, he's had a bunch of starts like that.
24:38
So maybe if you take a few of those starts away, he's had a
24:41
better season than than it looks on paper.
24:44
You know, I don't know, him and Parker are, are both interesting
24:47
where last year at points they look like real building blocks,
24:51
you know, if not top of the rotation guys, they look like
24:53
really solid, like 4 or fives like we used to have.
24:56
And in Annabel Sanchez or Tanner Roark, they look like they could
25:00
fill the back of the rotation and, and be solid and, and then
25:04
but they've been really hit or miss this year.
25:05
Both of those guys where, you know, one start, yeah, they'll
25:08
come out and look good and then the next start they'll get
25:10
bombed for six runs in the first two innings and, you know, and,
25:14
and you lose, right. So I, you know, with Irvin, I
25:16
don't, I, I, I think if this team wants to compete and if
25:19
ownership gets a little more serious about spending and, and
25:23
supplementing the rotation they have, I think, you know, urban
25:27
profiles more as a four or five to me, you know, for a good
25:30
team, I'm not sure if he's ever going to develop into front or
25:35
mid rotation. You know, I'm not sure he's
25:37
going to ever develop into a top three rotation guy.
25:40
What do you what do you think about Michael Soroka?
25:42
He's been kind of up and down too.
25:44
But lately it's, it feels like he's, he's putting together
25:48
some, some decent starts. I mean, he's got a 1.14 whip,
25:52
which ain't too, that might be the best he's done in like 3 or
25:57
4 years. So I mean, because of his health
25:59
concerns, right? But he's another guy too, right?
26:03
This is, again, I feel bad at every question I'm answering
26:06
with like a management issue. But this is another thing with a
26:10
Soroka. If you look at him the first two
26:12
times through the Order, he's great.
26:15
And there are a lot of games where, you know, through 5, four
26:19
or five, he's given up no runs or one run and he's pitched
26:22
really great. And then there are a lot of
26:24
games where in the 5th or 6th inning he gets blown up, you
26:28
know, for four or five runs. So yeah, he's he's been really
26:33
good two times through the order and and maybe if they had a
26:39
manager, you know, he'd be a good guy.
26:40
The Nats don't really do openers, but if, you know, I
26:44
don't know if Cairo might have a different philosophy.
26:47
He'd be an interesting guy to do an opener in front of and, you
26:50
know, have some guy pitch for an inning or two, then throw Soroka
26:53
for four or five. And then, you know, maybe you're
26:55
in the 7th or 8th, you know, and you've only given up one or two
26:58
runs. Yeah, he's really good at the
27:00
start, but then usually has problems the third time through.
27:04
But he is a guy they might be able to move him again.
27:07
I don't think he's going to fetch a lot, but I think he's a
27:09
guy like Rosario. He'll probably get something for
27:11
him at this deadline and there will be a contender who can see
27:16
the value of a guy you can throw for.
27:18
Because sometimes in the playoffs, you need a guy you're
27:20
pulling your starter in the early if you're down three runs
27:24
and you need a guy who can go 3 or 4 in the middle of the game.
27:27
And I think Soroka could fit that profile because you know,
27:29
when he was on the, I want to say he's the White Sox last year
27:32
and they they put him in a bullpen and he was great.
27:34
I think he'd make a great long reliever for a contender.
27:39
So the next question I'm going to ask you is, so we look at
27:43
this organization right now, you can mention any player at this
27:47
point, but who, who fits into this team long term?
27:53
Like who's the who's the guys doubt fit into their long term
27:57
plans in your mind? Yeah, it's a it's a great
28:01
question and and it's interesting where we are in this
28:04
rebuild. You know, we only have gore for
28:07
two more years, which is kind of crazy.
28:10
So sadly, I'd say I'm not gore to me almost seems like someone
28:13
you might try to flip. I would obviously would be the
28:17
guy, you know, regard, I know he's Boris is his agent and you
28:21
know, I don't know if the way he's playing it looks like he's
28:24
going to be on track for, you know, a 700 million.
28:26
Yeah, he looks like he's going to have it.
28:29
He's going to be top of the market, resetting the market
28:31
kind of free agent. But he said, but we do have him
28:34
for five more years. So I, I, I do think Wood would
28:37
be the guy that we keep. And I, I do think, you know, if
28:40
ownership does get serious, Wood also is he's local.
28:45
His family's from Rockville, MD. His mom, you know, lives here,
28:48
goes to all the games. She, she tweets, you know, she's
28:51
a figure on social media. Wood would be the guy.
28:54
I would just, if I was ownership, I would offer him a,
28:57
maybe not a blank check, but I would, I would offer him like a
28:59
crazy extension that starts with a four or five, like tonight,
29:03
you know, if they're serious about that.
29:06
Short of that, yeah. I don't know, CJ, we have for
29:09
three more years. I think he'd be a good guy to
29:12
try to extend because he is not represented by Boris.
29:16
Ultimately, I think he'd be better as a second baseman than
29:19
a shortstop. But he'd be the fans like him.
29:21
He'd be someone to keep and on the pitch, on the pitching side,
29:25
unfortunately, I'm not sure we really have that.
29:27
I mean, Gore is also a Boris guy.
29:28
I doubt we we keep him, sadly. You know, we have some young
29:34
guys, Travis Sikora, who looks like an ace in waiting, who
29:38
hopefully will be up second-half next year.
29:42
But yeah, no, unfortunately the Nats are.
29:45
And I think that's maybe that's the reason why or probably is
29:47
the reason why Mike Rizzo got fired is, you know, it's a great
29:51
question and I can't really answer it because it's like the
29:53
good players we do have, it's it's hard to know how long we
29:56
can keep them. And we really don't have a lot
29:59
of mid level players at the moment.
30:03
You know, hopefully maybe Dylan Cruz or Robert Hassle or some of
30:06
those guys come up and become that.
30:08
But we don't really have, you know, a ton of guys to hang our
30:11
hat on that we're like, oh, they're here for the next 7-8
30:14
years and they're going to we're going to build a team around
30:16
them that's, you know, other than Wood.
30:18
But but again, Wood might be hard to keep the way he's
30:21
playing for sure. Kay Ruiz and and Riley Adams are
30:27
are the bad have been the backstop duo and that they're
30:31
they're here long term. I believe Ruiz just signed an 8
30:34
year extension, but what are your thoughts on Caleb Lomovita?
30:39
Is he the future catcher? Is he going to be part of this
30:43
part of their plans long term? I hope so, yeah.
30:46
The Ruiz extension has been definitely did not work out the
30:52
way they wanted it seems like. I believe he signed that deal 2
30:56
off seasons ago. So I think we have him for six
30:59
more years. But it's, you know, it's he's
31:02
gotten worse each year since he's extended.
31:06
And and this year in particular, you know, yeah, he had two home
31:10
runs the first weekend against the Phillies and that he hasn't
31:14
hit another home run since. And he was hitting for average
31:17
earlier in a season. But then even that's kind of
31:19
gone away. And, and, and before he's on the
31:22
the aisle now. But before that happened, they
31:24
were batting a mate and like Nats fans would refer to it as
31:27
the pitcher spot. He was that bad.
31:30
So yeah, I didn't, I'm not sure what's going on with the Ruiz.
31:32
They they have played him so much.
31:35
They play when he is healthy. They play him like, you know, 5
31:38
out of six games or even more sometimes, which I don't really
31:41
understand. It seems to wear him out and
31:44
it's they've done that the last few years.
31:46
So yeah, I hope Lomavita could come up.
31:48
If nothing else, you know, Ruiz probably will be here for a
31:50
while. And I think Ruiz would be more
31:52
than mine is a backup guy or a timeshare guy.
31:55
You know, the year we won the World Series, we had more or
31:59
less a 5050 timeshare between Jan Gomes and Kurt Suzuki and
32:03
that worked really well. So hopefully maybe we get to a
32:05
point where it's Llama Vida and and Ruiz and, and we do it that
32:09
way and keep them both fresh. So yeah, I hope so.
32:13
I but again, yeah, with these Nats prospects, it's hard to,
32:16
it's hard for me to say definitively it's going to work
32:17
because we've had a lot of guys with hype that kind of come up
32:20
and, you know, just haven't worked out.
32:22
So I'm not sure, but but yeah, hopefully he's part of the
32:25
picture moving forward. There's a specific prospect that
32:30
got drafted 3 years ago and his name is Elijah Green.
32:34
And I believe, yeah, we, we need to talk about that.
32:38
That's another reason my prison might have gotten fired.
32:40
Yeah. Yeah.
32:43
Yeah, I know we talked, Kevin. We talked off the air about this
32:46
and yeah, you know, I was pretty high on him being he has an
32:49
athletic brat background. I think his father was a
32:51
football player, right? So.
32:53
Yeah, he, his father, I think, was a tight end for the
32:56
Baltimore Ravens. Ravens at 1:00.
32:57
Point. Yeah, yeah.
32:59
So, so The thing is that I know looking at that 2022 draft
33:04
class, it hasn't been all that great if you look at the track
33:08
record, besides maybe Jackson, but beyond that it hasn't really
33:11
been much. But so overall, you look at it
33:14
this way, the question is what's the reason why he's been not the
33:19
player he should be? Because there was so much hype
33:22
about him being a top prospect, a lot of people thought that he
33:25
would be the future of this, of the solution or the solution of
33:29
his team, but it just never turned out that way.
33:32
How come? You know, his hit tool is really
33:35
bad. There's a lot of swing and miss
33:38
and you know, but but he was a very controversial pick if I
33:43
remember, because it it wasn't like it came out of nowhere.
33:47
I don't have the stats in front of me, so I apologize if I'm not
33:50
100% accurate, but I want to say is a high school senior at IMG,
33:55
his K rate was something like 40% or maybe even 50.
33:59
He had, he had a crazy high K rate against high school
34:03
pitching and, and, and for a lot of, you know, other franchises,
34:07
I think didn't even have them on their draft board because of
34:10
that, because it's like, you know, if you strike out 4050% of
34:13
time against high school arms, what you know, what's going to
34:15
happen against, you know, Major League arms, right?
34:19
And, and, and sadly that's, that's kind of what's happened
34:22
to his career where, you know, his K rate in the minors is
34:25
sometimes close to 50%. It's, it's, it's unplayable.
34:29
And, you know, if you look at, I don't have his page up in front
34:32
of me, but if, if you look at his stats, you know, he, he does
34:35
hit the ball out of the park when he makes contact, But the
34:37
problem is he doesn't make a lot of contact.
34:39
He strikes out a lot. And you know, he does have a,
34:42
you know, he's, he's one of those guys.
34:44
There's like a, you know, an 80 grade power tool, a 70 or 80
34:47
grade speed tool. You know, he has, he has all the
34:50
tools except he can't hit a baseball, you know, and, and
34:52
that's sort of been a problem with him.
34:55
He had the I from what I hear, they they've moved him down to
34:59
the Florida coast kind of instructional complex.
35:02
And I've heard Jason Worth who's who does have a small role with
35:06
the organization now when he's not, you know, racing her horses
35:10
in the Kentucky Derby or whatever.
35:11
It's actually like personally working with Elijah Green on his
35:14
swing and in some of these like Florida Coast League games or
35:18
whatever, Green's been better lately.
35:21
So you help me. You know, at the end of the day,
35:24
I mean, they draft him out of high school.
35:25
So I think the kids still like 2122.
35:28
He's not like that old yet. So like, you know, if someone
35:31
can work with him on his contact, maybe he, you know,
35:36
maybe he'll have some upside. It's like a Joey Gallo type, you
35:40
know who at some point in his career.
35:43
But sadly, it does kind of look like he's just not he.
35:46
He probably looks like a guy who's never going to make the
35:48
majors unless something dramatic changes with his contact tool.
35:55
The trade deadline coming up in about 3 weeks.
35:58
There are few names have been talked about, but a specific
36:01
name give us a but there's a specific name that could be on
36:05
the block as well. Speaking of of Mackenzie Gore,
36:12
what are your initial thoughts on that and and possibly if he
36:15
could be moved or not? Yeah, I mean, that's a tough one
36:20
because, you know, as a Nats fan, you were promised this
36:23
rebuild when they traded Soto and that, you know, we would
36:27
have this young group of of players that would ascend
36:30
together like they did, you know, during our first run from
36:33
2012 to 2019. And, you know, and Gore was a
36:38
big part of that. So.
36:39
So to trade him would be disappointing from is it from a
36:42
fan perspective. But, you know, from a business
36:45
perspective, I think if if you were the GM of the Nats and
36:48
you're looking at where the team is, you're also looking to that
36:52
they have two more years of control for him.
36:54
But, you know, a lot of people think that the 2027 season is
37:00
going to potentially be in jeopardy because they had, you
37:03
know, the, I think there's an article in New York Times
37:05
yesterday that Rob Manfred wants a salary cap.
37:08
And there's gonna, you know, there's potentially labor strife
37:10
in 27. So, you know, if you're the Nats
37:13
and it's like we have this guy for two more years, maybe only
37:16
one more year. If if there's problems with 27
37:20
season, it probably does make sense to trade him if but but
37:25
but I would say if you can get a haul, I mean, I you know, if
37:28
somehow there's a bidding war, you can get the Yankees in
37:31
there, the Dodgers, you know, teams like that Cubs, you can
37:34
really, you know, the Tigers too.
37:36
They. Have the Blue Jays the Blue Jays
37:39
looking for some fetching too. So if you could, I mean, because
37:41
he would be a great, he would be a big deadline ad and and he
37:44
wouldn't fetch what Juan Soto did when they trade him to the
37:47
Padres. But you could, you know, you,
37:49
you could fetch quite a bit for, you know, you would be talking,
37:53
I think, like two or three top 100 prospect type of trade.
37:56
You know, I mean, it would be like a big trade, right.
38:00
So I I do think where the Nats are, you have to think about
38:02
that. But then, you know, conversely,
38:05
it's a really tough sell for the fans, right?
38:07
It's like we fired the manager, we brought in a new GM and the
38:11
first thing we're going to do is tear it down some more.
38:13
That's that's a tough one. You know, I guess it, but I will
38:17
say if they do do something like that, I think that means that
38:20
that the Bartolo is is the guy like, you know, the guy like I
38:24
don't think they do something like that with a placeholder GM
38:27
for sure. So we'll see.
38:29
But it does make sense, sadly, to do that.
38:32
Well, also The thing is that Mackenzie Gore is represented by
38:35
Scott Boris, right? So and I think a guy like to
38:38
reach school, but it's going to be I think is he the same?
38:40
Is he in the same free aging class as Gore is or Gore is a
38:43
year after? It's a year after I think,
38:45
right. So, yeah, I think it's a year
38:46
after, but mentioned mentioned the other guys that's that
38:51
potentially could get traded like the bread of the Kyle
38:53
Finnegans and the Nate Lowe's perhaps a Josh Bell or anyone
38:58
any other guys that you could mention it who was going to be
39:01
traded this deadline? Of course, yeah, yeah.
39:03
No, I would think Finnegan would be very likely because because
39:07
they only have him, they signed him to a one year deal.
39:09
So they don't. He would be a true rental.
39:11
They only have him for, you know, the rest of the season.
39:13
And certainly if someone wants to give you anything for
39:17
Finnegan, you take it right because I don't think you really
39:19
need a close. Those are for the last, you
39:22
know, 60-70 games if if you're in last place.
39:25
So I would, I definitely think Finnegan will go.
39:29
If someone wants Josh Bell, I think you obviously move him.
39:32
He's again, A1 year deal. Same with Rosario, I think
39:36
someone will want Rosario. He's also one year deal.
39:39
So you definitely move him. Soroka, if anyone has any
39:42
interest in Soroka, I would move him called Dejong.
39:47
He he just has come back. He got hit in the face earlier
39:50
in the season and he was out for a while.
39:51
He he has just come back and they're working him into a
39:54
rotation. They've given Brady house third,
39:56
but Dejong's playing a bit. I he's another guy someone will
39:59
probably give you like a Lotto ticket.
40:01
I I could see them moving him. Andrew Chaffin like veteran
40:07
left-handed reliever. Someone might give you another
40:10
Lotto ticket for him. Well, yeah, we don't really
40:13
have, I, I think the guys we have that we're probably certain
40:16
to trade. Finnegan's the only guy I, I
40:18
don't even know if he'd bring back a top 100, but like, he,
40:22
he'd bring you back like something, right?
40:24
Like he probably has the most value of, of the guys we're
40:27
likely to trade in terms of more creative ideas of what they
40:33
could do. Luis Garcia, the second baseman,
40:39
I would definitely consider trading him.
40:41
He is under contract for a while.
40:43
But you know, I, I don't know how he really fits on the team.
40:48
His, his plate disciplines a little rough, his defense a
40:53
little rough, but he does hit the ball and he might, you know,
40:55
the Yankees to me seem like a team.
40:58
They, they have a need there at second base.
41:00
I, I think you know, the short porches up there in the Bronx
41:03
like I think Garcia might. And I think Garcia originally is
41:07
from New York. I, I think that could, could be
41:10
an interesting idea. If someone wants Luis Garcia, I
41:13
would certainly listen, because, you know, if, if I'm the GM of
41:17
the Nats, I, I probably do want to try to extend CJ.
41:20
And eventually I want to move CJ to second base and replace him
41:23
with a better defensive shortstop.
41:25
And I just don't see how Garcia fits with like a long term
41:28
vision, you know, of this franchise.
41:31
And and plus the Nats, do you have a lot of minor, you know,
41:34
they they might even draft Jacks or, or sorry, yeah, they they
41:36
might draft Holiday. You know, they have Nickerson,
41:41
they have like they have, they might draft Willits, who's
41:43
another They have a lot of middle infielders.
41:45
You know, they could potentially have Siever King.
41:47
There are a lot of middle infielders.
41:48
On that, they still have Siever King too.
41:50
Yeah, that. Could come up, yeah.
41:52
So Garcia, Garcia could see movie and if someone wants to
41:55
give you something of value and and then obviously the big one
41:59
would be gore. If you could get like a really,
42:01
you know, that would be like, yeah, you'd want two or three
42:04
top 100 prospects. You'd want a lot for him.
42:08
And, and ideally you'd want some kind of a bidding war.
42:10
So, so Gore and Garcia would be the two names that, you know,
42:15
it'll be interesting if they move them then yeah, they're
42:18
tearing it down to the studs and they might be clearing the deck
42:21
for a new GM to come in. If they keep them, then maybe
42:25
that means ownership will commit to spend a bit of money next
42:28
year and and try to at least have a, you know, with, with a
42:31
couple years we have of them try to do something like contend for
42:33
a wild card next year or something like that.
42:37
It's so funny you talk about the draft of who's going, because
42:40
the Nationals have the number one pick in this year's draft,
42:43
right? So they've been linked to about
42:47
a couple of names and we know it's the high end ones.
42:49
We talked talked about Ethan Holiday potentially going #1 and
42:54
his brother plays what, not too far away from where Washington
42:58
is at, right, with Jackson, his older brother.
43:00
So I mean, it would be, it'll be like a cross crosstown thing.
43:04
But there's another name that's been linked as well.
43:07
And he's also a Boris client. It's Kate Anderson.
43:10
But and he's projected to, I mean, to be one or two, if not
43:16
3. And if you had to go pick a
43:20
player this Sunday, and we're probably going to release this
43:23
next week, who would you pick as the number one pick in this
43:29
year's draft? Yeah, if it was me, I think I
43:33
would probably go with Holiday. I, I do think the fans, I, I
43:39
know that you shouldn't draft a player based on PR and all that,
43:42
but you know, with in terms of they just fired the manager and
43:47
the general manager, that one year old series and the fan base
43:50
is a little, you know, despondent, I guess, or, or, or
43:53
fed up with the way this season's gone.
43:56
I you know, I do think a name like Holiday might help, you
44:01
know, and, and I do think that this isn't a year, this isn't
44:05
Paul Skeens draft or Steven Strasburg or Bryce Harper draft
44:08
where there's a A1 of 1 and and, you know, everyone knows that.
44:13
And, and it's a no brainer. You know, this year, yeah,
44:16
they're like 6 or 7 guys who could go.
44:18
Number one. I've heard they've had Eli
44:21
Willits, a high, another high school shortstop in and maybe
44:24
for, for a private workout. And maybe the idea there would
44:27
be to under slot him at #1 and and then have more money like
44:32
like they did that last year with Seaver King so they could
44:34
get Dickerson later. You know, that might be the
44:37
plan. But I, I do think it's tough.
44:40
I, I know that probably the casual baseball fan here doesn't
44:44
really know any of these guys and probably won't care.
44:47
But I do think it's a tough sell to the to the more hardcore fans
44:51
and the, and the more hardcore fans are usually your season
44:54
ticket holders to to under slot a guy or to go to go kind of all
44:59
scripts. I I do think it probably has to
45:02
be holiday or Anderson, but it'll be interesting to me,
45:07
especially, you know, you wonder like with the new GM, whether
45:12
they keep going with these Boris guys and that's have a long
45:14
history with, with Boris and, and maybe, you know, they're
45:18
looking to move off that. I don't know.
45:20
You know, if it was me, I think I'd go holiday.
45:24
There'll be a spot for him somewhere, you know, to figure
45:26
out whether he's going to like, if house is great and you know,
45:31
and CJ, you know, if you have a house at 3rd and CJ, it's short,
45:35
you know, figure it out later. There's always a spot for a good
45:38
hitter and you can always trade guys.
45:39
But I think I take holiday I with Anderson or some or some of
45:45
the other pitching prospects. I, I do think there's something
45:47
to the idea that that Nats ownership is a little spooked on
45:51
on investing in arms after giving Strasburg that huge
45:55
extension and he has a career ending injury.
45:58
Like right away, you know, so you know, maybe they want to I,
46:02
I, I, I wouldn't be shocked if they, if they want to go bat.
46:05
And I think if you're going to go bat, then Holly holiday is,
46:08
is the the guy to pick. So there's a question that we
46:13
want to talk about. It's prospects, right?
46:15
You talked about a whole bunch of prospects already, right?
46:18
Yeah, we know that. I mean, you brought up Brady
46:22
House, of course, Dylan Cruz. I mean, there's some guy in the
46:25
minors that we're intrigued about and, you know, talk about
46:28
the philosophies that that there's word that Mike Rizzo
46:33
hasn't done well developing guys.
46:35
But I want to talk about a few things here.
46:38
Travis Sikore is probably the top prospect everywhere.
46:41
Alice Clemmy was a guy who was from the late Thomas Deal.
46:45
Johandra Morales was a draft pick, Seaver King you mentioned
46:48
about. And if there's anyone else talk
46:50
a bit about some of those prospects and where's where
46:53
things stand and could there be improvement now that Mike
46:57
Rizzo's gone and perhaps you got you guys have to re re
47:02
reconstruct the whole coaching staff?
47:05
Yeah, no, they they, it's, it's interesting, you know, Sakura
47:09
definitely is the guy that that we hope comes up and is a home
47:14
grown ace. You know, if we do end up
47:16
keeping Gore, you know, hopefully someone to pair with
47:19
Gore next year and then certainly, you know, in 2027.
47:25
So he's the most exciting guy. He just had a minor.
47:29
He got pulled from a start the in the last week.
47:33
I think he's going to be out for a couple weeks, but they say
47:35
it's not a big deal. We hope so.
47:38
But hopefully he stays on track and he's the next big guy to
47:41
come up past that. Yeah.
47:43
I mean, they have a lot of guys that, you know, like Seaver,
47:45
King and and Dickerson and, you know.
47:48
Yeah, Morales has been an interesting prospect.
47:51
There is a hole at first base, especially if they do trade Nate
47:55
Lowe and and maybe he could come up and, and fill that in.
47:59
But yeah, it is like I've said before, it is hard as a Nats fan
48:02
because we just really haven't, you know, and that is probably
48:05
why Mike Rizzo got fired. A lot of these prospects have
48:08
just kind of come up and, and fizzled out.
48:10
Like, you know, in the past we had, you know, Carter Kaboom was
48:13
was, you know, he's a top 20 prospect, right?
48:17
You know, the year, the year that we won the World Series, I
48:19
think he was the number 20 or 21 prospect in the majors.
48:23
And, you know, we didn't trade him for for that push and and we
48:26
kept him and he kind of fizzled out.
48:28
You know, Jackson Rutledge, who's now in our bullpen, was
48:30
the number one draft pick. Hey, Cavalli, I hope can become
48:34
something. He he looked pretty good in
48:36
spring training a couple years ago, but then he had TJ.
48:39
Some people think some people thought he was going to be
48:41
called up last Sunday, you know, but instead they went with yoga
48:46
Sara. But you know, Kabali would be a
48:49
guy that I I you know, I think he's pretty close to the majors
48:52
And and we hope that he could come up and be a mid rotation
48:56
guy that would definitely help the team.
49:00
You know, I'm trying to think who else?
49:02
Yeah, a lot of a lot of infield guys.
49:05
Definitely. Yeah.
49:07
King and Dickerson Morales. Morales, yeah. 1st and and I do
49:15
think hassle. I know he had a a cup of coffee
49:17
in the majors, but but he he they sent him back to Rochester
49:20
to work on some things and he's been killing at Rochester.
49:22
Hassle. I really an unknown thing about
49:25
him or something that people have probably forgotten.
49:27
He was actually, when the Juan Soto deal went down, he was the
49:32
the headliner. He, they had the prospect
49:34
rankers had Hassle above Gore. They had him above Wood.
49:39
You know, people really loved Robert Hassle.
49:40
And then he had a Hammett bone injury, which, you know, takes a
49:43
year or two to recover from that.
49:45
I think he's going to eventually come up and really be a solid
49:49
outfield. He's probably going to push
49:50
Jacob Young, you know, out of the line up.
49:54
And yeah, those are the guys that are close to the majors.
49:58
And then, you know, I think Suzanne is an interesting,
50:01
really interesting bullpen prospect.
50:04
They, they still have him starting, but I, I think with
50:07
his plus velocity, you know, ultimately he's going to profile
50:10
as a back end guy. And those are the guys that that
50:15
I'm, you know, that I think can make an impact somewhat soon.
50:18
And in terms of the overall philosophy, they did actually
50:21
make a lot of changes in the last couple years.
50:23
They they brought over some guys from the Orioles front office,
50:29
you know, to help the Orioles with their rebuild and, and kind
50:32
of gave them the reins. And, and I do think that, you
50:35
know, they've invested or they're trying to invest more in
50:37
player development. And then, you know, you don't
50:39
know if the Bartolo is going to be the GM, you know, just for
50:42
the rest of season or, or you know, if he's going to be the GM
50:45
moving forward. But he's really big on
50:48
analytics. Apparently Rizzo wasn't as big
50:51
on analytics, so it does seem like the organization does want
50:55
to move a little more into the cutting edge of of player
51:01
development through analytics. So we'll see if that that bears
51:05
any fruit. But yeah, I mean, started to be
51:07
vague, but yes. And as a Nats fan, it's, it's
51:09
hard to, it's hard for me to say like, Oh yeah, this, this
51:12
prospects going to come up and kill it because, you know, we
51:16
really haven't had too many home grown guys do that.
51:19
Pretty much the guys we've had do that.
51:20
We've gotten through trades like Wood, CJ, Trey Turner back in
51:24
the day. But it's been a while, it's
51:25
really been since like Anthony Rendon and you know, 20/12/2013
51:30
that we've just had a guy we drafted come up and kill it.
51:32
So it's, it's hard for me to, to really say definitively like, Oh
51:36
yeah, we have this guy for the miners we drafted who's going to
51:39
come up and be a star because it's, it's hard to know, you
51:41
know? Yeah, it's such a crap shoot,
51:44
the draft and everything else. Mark Lerner being the owner of
51:48
the Nationals, his his father Ted bought the franchise in O 6,
51:53
I believe. What are your thoughts on the on
51:56
the learners as the owners and going into the future assess the
52:01
job that they've done to this point?
52:04
Yeah, You know, it's interesting.
52:06
They get a really bad rap around town here.
52:08
Everyone says the learners are cheap.
52:10
And, you know, I, I think a lot of fans and a lot of local media
52:14
blame them for, you know, all these guys who've left like Soto
52:18
and Trey and, and, and all that. But you know, when the team was
52:22
contending in that last window we had when they, they did a
52:26
complete rebuild in 2910 and by 2012 they'd won 98 games.
52:31
And, and they were able to, they spent a lot, you know, from from
52:34
2012 to 2019, they finance routinely had a top five payroll
52:38
or top ten payroll. And and they did spend when it
52:41
was time, you know, to win. What's changed from then is, is
52:46
you know, Ted Lerner was was the father of the 90 year old kind
52:51
of patriarch of the family. And he passed away.
52:52
And then now it's his son Mark, who who I guess would be the
52:56
primary owner. But but one of the issues there
52:58
with ownership here is apparently there's a lot of
53:02
consensus that's needed. It's is Mark Lerner's like the
53:05
main guy, but then they're all these like brothers and sisters
53:08
in laws and all these people. And apparently when it's time to
53:10
make a decision, they have to all talk to each other.
53:13
And it's it's a big committee. And and maybe that's hamstrung
53:16
the team a little bit. But you know, the learners are
53:18
interesting. A couple years ago, they they
53:21
said the team was for sale. They leaked that they were
53:23
exploring a sale, but then they backed off that and say, no, we
53:27
want to keep the team. You know, I don't know, it's,
53:31
it's been hard with them lately because we don't really know if
53:34
they want to sell or if they want to keep it.
53:37
We don't really know if they're going to commit more money.
53:39
I mean, this this past offseason, they did give Rizzo
53:42
an extra $50,000,000 to sign guys with.
53:45
And, and unfortunately the guys he signed have not worked out.
53:49
But yeah, it's, it's definitely like a little we, we don't know
53:54
whether we don't know where they are in terms of do they actually
53:57
want to win again or are they just kind of holding this, this
54:01
team as an asset looking for a buyer to come in and, and and
54:04
that's sort of I think stalled out this rebuild a bit.
54:07
So let me ask you this because right now who are they committed
54:14
right now? I think it's keeper Ruiz right
54:15
now at the moment, right? I don't, I don't know if there's
54:18
anybody else that's committed. So that's it.
54:21
So we know that Scherzer's contract is still deferred to
54:25
20, but that doesn't reflect the payroll.
54:28
Yeah. And what's the, what's the
54:29
update with Strasburg's contract?
54:31
Like I'm I'm so confused, Like can you explain a little bit of
54:34
that? Yeah, yeah, no, the Strasburg
54:37
deal, OK, so I think I have to like pull out my fingers and
54:41
count the years, but so basically, OK, so in the
54:43
offseason after 2019, they they did resign him.
54:47
Everyone says the Nats don't resign guys.
54:49
Sadly, they did resign Strasburg.
54:51
They gave him seven years and I think it was right 200 and 40
54:55
million, something like roughly like that.
54:57
So, so if so, it'd be 20212222242526.
55:03
All right. Yeah.
55:04
So it would be next year. Next year is the last year of
55:07
Strasburg's contract. So yeah, it was it was a seven
55:11
years, $35 million a year a year contract at the time.
55:16
And unfortunately, he just, you know, his his arm, just he had
55:20
like TOS thing on his shoulder and then he tried to come back
55:24
in 2022. It didn't work out.
55:26
And he's basically been, you know, on the injured list.
55:30
And the thing that we don't know is he did retire last year.
55:34
Last year he decided to retire. And I we don't know if they made
55:40
a settlement or not. There was a whole public dispute
55:42
where for a while, you know, while he was still drawing a
55:46
check, there was this whole ugly thing where they were like,
55:49
well, you should come to spring training and mentor the young
55:53
pitchers. And he's like, I don't want to
55:55
come to spring training. And they're they've kind of had
55:57
a little bit of a feud in the media down here.
56:01
And ultimately they did end up coming to some kind of
56:04
agreement, but the terms of that weren't made public.
56:07
So I'm not sure actually whether he's getting whether his full
56:12
salary is being paid next year and on the books, but I think it
56:17
might be on the books. But if it is, then next year
56:20
would be the last year of it. So yeah, that that's the
56:24
situation with Strasbourg. OK, So the next question I want
56:28
to ask you is the whole debacle between the National and the
56:32
Orioles, Like they finally got into a settlement earlier this
56:35
year. Like what was that whole process
56:38
like with Mason? Because that TV deal like
56:42
reflected the whole process of the Angelo selling their
56:45
franchise, right? And they finally sold it to the
56:48
Rubinstein, which I which to me, in my opinion are not any
56:51
better, but I know Nationals fans probably get a kick out of
56:55
it. But but talk about that whole
56:58
process. What was the reasoning, how it
56:59
started like and how did they finally get into a settlement?
57:04
Yeah, no, that whole thing. So, yeah, the whole thing is
57:07
such a mess. But basically the way it started
57:11
was when the Expos wanted to move to DC, you know, the most
57:15
of the ownership, most of Major League Baseball wanted that to
57:19
happen. Obviously they weren't
57:20
succeeding in Montreal, sadly. It was a great, I used to go to
57:24
expose games, like I went to College in Boston, would drive
57:27
up to Montreal, go to expose games.
57:29
It was, it was really fun. But sadly that team didn't work
57:32
out there. No one went.
57:33
And you know, I remember they had a year where the expose were
57:36
splitting half their season, you know, between Montreal and
57:38
Puerto Rico and the whole thing was a mess.
57:40
So Major League Baseball and the other owners wanted to move them
57:43
to DC, but the one person who objected was Peter Angelos,
57:48
because he was saying that that would cut into his business,
57:51
which to be fair to him, is true.
57:53
I mean, a lot of Nats fans used to be OS fans or you know, I, I,
57:59
I, when I grew up, I rooted for the OS for a little bit.
58:02
I, I never lived in the city of Baltimore.
58:04
I didn't really care about Baltimore as a city.
58:07
You know, I'm from Washington originally, but you know, you
58:09
didn't have a team here. So you kind of cheered for the
58:11
Orioles, right? You know, But basically I in
58:16
order to get Angelos to agree to let the Expos move down here, he
58:22
had they, they gave him this crazy TV deal where it's
58:25
basically like, all right, they're going to move to DC, but
58:29
we're going to do a cable network that shows both of your
58:32
team's games. But you're going to the Orioles
58:36
will get like it started off at something crazy like, you know,
58:39
70 or 80% of that. And you know, the revenue.
58:43
So basically the Nats, you know, TV revenues subsidizing the
58:46
Orioles. And, and then it was supposed to
58:47
be an agreement where every year a certain percentage would start
58:51
moving to the Nats. So maybe it started 70, but but
58:54
you know, they'd be like, well, 10 years into it, it'll it'll
58:58
slowly inch to where it's a little more towards 5050.
59:01
And basically, you know, when it came time for the Nats to get
59:07
their payments, when it's time for the Orioles to be like, OK,
59:10
we made, you know, our $100 million from the cable network
59:14
and here's your share. The Orioles refused to pay.
59:17
So essentially, they've been in court.
59:21
They've been in federal court for years over this.
59:24
And, you know, and we're talking federal court, you know, for 15
59:28
years. Eventually, when the Rubensteins
59:30
got the team, they decided to settle.
59:33
So the way it stands right now, the the Nats still are on
59:36
Massen, but as of next year, they're free agents.
59:40
They can negotiate their own TV deals, and whatever they get
59:43
from the TV deal will be there, so they won't have to send a
59:46
knee to the Orioles. But yeah, the whole thing was a
59:48
complete mess. And that's basically where we
59:52
are. The last question I wanted to
59:57
ask you was about Theo Epstein and the and.
1:00:03
And the rumors that are going around that he's being
1:00:05
interviewed, what are your thoughts on that?
1:00:07
What do you know about that? Yeah, excuse me, Yeah, No, we
1:00:12
our site talk. Nats did put out a tweet
1:00:15
yesterday from a source that says that they had a meeting,
1:00:20
that Theo Epstein and the learners had a discussion.
1:00:24
I'm not the, it's, it was our head writer, Steve Mears who
1:00:28
reported that. He told me it's from a source.
1:00:31
He obviously won't tell me a source because he's a good
1:00:33
journalist, but but he, he reported that he stands by that.
1:00:36
So, yeah, According to him, they did have a conversation
1:00:40
yesterday. They, we did reach out to Theo
1:00:42
Epstein for comment. He did not comment, which makes
1:00:45
sense because I I believe he has an ownership stake in the Fenway
1:00:49
group and and, you know, it's it's something he's not going to
1:00:52
comment on. But.
1:00:54
Yeah, but past that, I can't really tell you anything more,
1:00:57
unfortunately. But yeah, like our website is
1:00:59
reporting that they had a conversation yesterday and one
1:01:02
can only imagine what that is. But you would think if nothing
1:01:06
else, maybe they were feeling each other out whether there
1:01:09
could be a fit there. And and definitely, you know, if
1:01:11
the learners do you want to get serious about owning the team
1:01:14
and show, you know, the fans in Washington, DC that that they
1:01:19
want to bring it back to where it used to be.
1:01:21
As, you know, an annual contender hiring a guy like Theo
1:01:24
Epstein would would really, you know, that that would that would
1:01:27
grab headlines and and that would get people excited.
1:01:29
So who knows, You know, maybe I don't know if there's a fit
1:01:32
there, but that'd be certainly an interesting move.
1:01:36
Kevin, we appreciate you being a guest here in this episode.
1:01:40
That was some great information and what a fascinating time to
1:01:45
be a Nationals fan right now, especially the way that things
1:01:47
are going. But yeah, Kevin, we where can we
1:01:50
find you in social media and every everywhere else you can
1:01:54
remind everyone once again. Yeah, thanks, Guy.
1:01:57
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
1:01:59
Yeah, I'm at K under score Nibley on X.
1:02:04
You follow me. I I do work for Talk Nats.
1:02:07
I also work in television, so I had a lot of tweets about
1:02:09
movies, TV shows, things like that.
1:02:12
And follow Talk Nats. It's just at Talk Nats on
1:02:16
xitstalknats.com. It's one of the better baseball
1:02:20
blogs in the country. And definitely if you're a Nats
1:02:22
fan, it's the best place to really go in depth on the team.
1:02:26
There's a whole article about the draft coming up.
1:02:28
You can it much better than anything I said.
1:02:30
I mean, you could you could read about all the prospects they
1:02:33
might pick, really in depth stuff.
1:02:35
And it's a great community. So yeah, thanks again for having
1:02:38
me guys. I appreciate it.
1:02:40
Yeah, this was awesome, man. It was a great conversation.
1:02:43
You gave great depth and insight into what's going on in the
1:02:46
Nationals, the farm system, the team going forward, not only now
1:02:50
but into the future. And like you, like Rocky said,
1:02:54
it's it's a crazy time to be a Nats fan.
1:02:57
Things can only get better from here and I'm sure they will.
1:03:00
So hopefully we can get you back down the road, maybe later on
1:03:06
this year or even in the offseason, you know, because I
1:03:10
think that you guys are definitely A-Team to watch in
1:03:12
the future for sure. Yeah, it's totally a pleasure.
1:03:14
Anytime you guys want me back, just let me know.
1:03:16
Happy to do it. And yeah, thanks, Rocky and Rob,
1:03:18
thanks for having me. Totally appreciate it.
1:03:21
We will place a description below where you can find Kevin
1:03:24
Nibley, but till next time, take care, be kind to each other.
1:03:28
Signing off the Sports Ave. Twisted podcast on Thursday,
1:03:32
July 10th, 2025.