Latest / WriterCon / Writing for Children with Mark McCraw

Transcript

Writing for Children with Mark McCraw · WriterCon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to quote Roy C. Bennett that says,
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: never stop dreaming, never stop believing, never give up, never
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: stop trying, and never stop learning.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Do
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: you have a desire to write? Every successful writer started
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: with their first book. All it takes is determination and knowledge,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and writer Con can provide that knowledge. Your hosts are
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: number one national best selling writer William Bernhardt, author of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: more than sixty books, including The Superman Wars, and Laura Bernhardt,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Award winning author of the Wantlan File series and Shadow
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of the taj Wo.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: We thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey there, writers, thanks for
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: joining us. This is our first February episode of the
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: new year. So it's tempting to talk about Valentine's Day,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: but you know, we already talked about Christmas gifts and
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: what to gain of your writer friends, so I'm going
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: to skip that instead talk about the much more down
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: and dirty topic of the Anthropic lawsuit, which we've covered
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: over and over again on this show. This is a
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: company that allegedly downloaded books from inappropriate sources and then
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: scan them to train their AI, and they're supposed to
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: be paying a huge settlement to writers someday, but the
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: deadlines have been extended. So listeners, if you've written a
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: book that might have been scanned, there are websites you
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: can go to to check it out, and if your
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: book is on the list, you should file a claim
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: while you still have time. I've done it twenty seven
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: times now, and you can all do. I hope it
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: eventually comes to something. Laura, did any of your books
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: turn up on the.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: List, every one of them all seven?
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Yep?
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Did you file a claim?
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: I did, but later we talked about how you had
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: to have officially sent in money and filed your copyright
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: claim with it. And I am irritated by that because
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: I think, I mean, the copyright exists regardless, and so
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I think to everybody who was wronged by this AI training, the.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Two wrinkles that have come out. I don't recall if
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: we discussed this in a news item, but first you
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: have to have filed, for you know, with the US
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Copyright Office, which almost nobody who's self published does, even
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: some small publishers don't mess with that anymore, and set
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: but on the other hand, if you had a traditional publisher,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: then you're probably going to have to share the booty
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: with them. And then there's also legal fees and other
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: things that'll take a cut. Jesse, is this just making
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: you glad you never wrote a book?
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Well, listen, and every industry is having their fights with AI.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I am. I'm fighting also for the fact of like,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: it hasn't happened to me yet, but I you know,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: in groups I'm in, they've talked about how people have
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: just decided to like use AI to add their podcast
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: and stop paying their editors. And I'm like, good luck
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to those people, but like, you know, they're coming for everybody.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm happy I don't have to fill up
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: paperwork to fix a wrong that was done against me
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: without my consent.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Right right, all right. Our interview today is with Mark McCraw.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Mark is the former Air Force veteran and the author
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: of twelve twelve children's books wonderful books, including Did You
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Come Home for Lunch? And A Bunch More. We're going
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: to talk to them about that and much more. But first,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: the news news item number one, Substack is coming to television. Substack,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: as some of you probably know, is a home and
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: distributor for news letters, including I might add the extraordinarily
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Wonderful writer Con newsletter, which is free go to web
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: substack you can sign up for at anytime. But that's
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: not what this news story is supposed to be about.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: They're branching out into television. They've got a new substack
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: app which you can download, just like you might download
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: the Netflix app or YouTube, which is what I think
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: they're really going for. It works with Apple TV, it
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: works with Google Google TV, and now they're trying to
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: get people to submit thought provoking videos and live screen
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: live streams, things that sort of belong on TV, and
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: let's face it, things that are all over the place
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: with at YouTube, which is now huge. More people watch
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: YouTube then watch network television, right, I mean, and so
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: it's makes sense that they would try and get a
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: piece of that action. I don't know if it's possible
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: to compete with Apple TV. I suppose with YouTube, I mean,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: I suppose ultimately, it just depends on how good the
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: content is. I don't know, Jesse, Uh, I mean, it
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: sounds to me anyway like they're trying to create a
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: YouTube alternative. You think it's going to happen.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I think there is a a niche need for something
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: that is a little more curated than YouTube is, because
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: YouTube is everything it is. You know, I'm trying to
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: search for one thing and I end up getting distracted
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: by a video and hope that's true.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: It's worse. It's like crack television. Yeah, you watch one
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: and you can't stop.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, there's a reason why I don't open the TikTok
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: app on my phone, like I just I have things
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: to do. I do think that this sort of goes
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: along with like Netflix getting into like video podcasts, where
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I'm like, these these things they're not TV shows and
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: they're specifically designed to not be TV shows. Yeah, we're
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: going to present them as TV shows now, which I
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: feel like there is a correction that's going to need
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: to be done of people's either expectations or how they're marketed.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: But I do think there is a uh, there's a
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: place for something, you know, especially with like Vimeo going bankrupt,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: there is a place for more curated video content.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, and my curated you mean like somebody's
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: in charge of making sure it's all decent.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, like so is the one who's yes, I mean,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I imagine there's some sort of approval process where not just
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: every or even if anyone can post theming to subsect TV.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: When you go to the subsect TV app, I imagine
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: they're going to be some sort of you know, algorithmic
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: thing of using your own substack information to then show
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: you what subsect TV thinks you want to watch.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Right, Laura, we watch YouTube videos sometimes not too often,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: but when there's a gap between watching Jeopardy and eating dinner,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: sometimes all pull up YouTube. You think you'd ever watch
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: this substack TV stuff?
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: I maybe probably depends on what they've got. I think
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: I'm too old to be part of their target audience.
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: I don't watch a whole lot of YouTube Eire, but
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: we do know people who watch YouTube instead of watching TV.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: Like you talk the younger generation about watching TV, or
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: talk to them about cable or how we used to
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: watch shows, and they just kind of glaze over and
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: look at you. Likely because YouTube has kind of stepped
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: in and taken that place. So it depends. It depends
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: on what they have there. I mean, you could have
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: predicted that YouTube would take off like that, and now
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: we've got people with millions and millions of followers even
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: creating and distributing their own movie because of the success
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: that they've had there.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: So this is a reference to Iron Lung, which came
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: from a Google movie maker who's gotten his movie in
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: theaters right yep, which he sall last night for your birthday.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: Totally my idea. Yeah, so it could take off. Who knows,
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: And it depends on what's there. And I mean, I've
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: really recently gotten into crime podcasts and I hadn't really
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: been listening to that much.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: So anything's possible.
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: News story number two. This has to do with Scandinavian authors,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: but for once, it's not about depressing mystery stories. It's
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Scandinavia is also giving us auto fiction. Let me explain
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: what that is in recent years, books that are primarily
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: autobiographical but also include fictional elements, not unlike what in
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: America we might call creative nonfiction, but it's become a
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: distinct and popular genre in Scandinavia. It's an area that
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: kind of crosses borders. In Norway and Sweden, apparently it
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: is called reality literature or sometimes witness literature, but in
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Denmark it's called auto fiction. So if any of this
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: has something in common. It's the idea of trying to
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: use both nonfiction and fiction to get closer to the truth.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Some of it based on fact and some of it
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: based on feelings. So they're not exactly memoirs, but they
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: are very popular in Navia. And you know, I've been
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: working on a nonfiction book. And if there's anything I
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: can tell you, it's the memory is fallible. But I
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: don't fill in the gaps with my imagination, you know,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I dig harder and find out what's really happening. But
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: these authors are coming up with something that they say
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: is just as truthful as fact, and yet it tells
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: a version of the truth. Laura, you're overdue for writing
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: a memoir. You think you might try something.
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: Like this.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: If I thought anyone wanted to read about my life.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: My life is actually good, a.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Little bit like a reader Jesse. See if you.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: Hear about all the messeness that came along the way,
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: it does kind of sound like a soap opera, but.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: A version of the truth.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: I think if I was writing a memoir, I would
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: just write what happened, like a fictionalized version of Hmmm.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand how this is different from just
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: like nonfiction, because again even nonfiction, like it's still someone's
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: perspective on the research they've done, Like nothing is one
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: hundred percent the truth, right right, Well.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: You're saying where you're you may remember things differently than
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: what someone else did.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I remember, I assumed someone's memoir is one hundred percent accurate.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but to intentionally right. So then as everyone's reading it,
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: they have to wonder, now, is this the real part
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: or is this the part where she made some stuff
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: up just make it spicy.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Idea is to get away from just here are the facts,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Here are the historical documents, here are the eyewitnesses, and
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: imagine things to try and get at a deeper truth.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Or I don't think in this time of uh, you know,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: differing news sources and the inability to tell real from
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: AI that we need another category.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: That's con.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Be heartfelt news or something like that.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: Heartfelta was I true?
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Listen, Skinnavians do know how to be happy, so maybe
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: they're onto something here. They do always, so I'm not true,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong more confusion.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we should try reading I need to try reading one.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: That's the example.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: You need to read one and better understand it and
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: then I'll know mm hmm.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Well, Jesse, what about you know, let's
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: assume it's somebody whose memoir you'd be interested in. Yes,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Brandon Sanderson, who's speaking of Apple TV, as you and
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: I talked about earlier, he's just made this killer deal
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: with Apple TV in which he's going to write, he's
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: gonna direct, he's going to produced, he's going to be
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: all over the adaptations of his show, which is very promising,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: but not really my question. My question was, let's say
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: he wrote this auto fiction, which is sort of a
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: blend of what really happened what didn't?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Would you?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Would you read it?
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I think this is just one of
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: those things where it needs to be made clear to
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: us the reader what it is. Yeah, and if it's not,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: if it's not just one hundred percent memoir, we just
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: need to know.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: So well, that was what was the guy's name, James Frey,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: who got into trouble for passing off something that purported
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: to be a non fiction or memoir and turned out
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: to be mostly invented.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Auto fiction was first autofiction writer.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know if there was enough heart in it,
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: but it was definitely not true, although he still made
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: a fortune off.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Who's going to judge that? Who's the heart monitor at.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: All?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Right, let's move on to Kraft Corner, which this time
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: is coming to us from our friend of the podcast,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: J D. Kaine. You may remember, if you've been listening
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: to the podcast a while, that we share in an
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: episode of the podcast she does with her friends called
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Unfreaking Believable. She's also the author of seven books, including
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: the Manifest Destiny fantasy series, which she co writes with
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: another frequent contributor to Kraft Corner, Betsy Kulikowski. The second book,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: just recently released is called The Night Doctor's Blade, and
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: appropriately enough, she'll be talking to you about how to
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: scare your readers. Take it away, JD.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Cain Craft Corner.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: Thanks Bill.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: I'm JB. Kin. I'm a multi genre author and co
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: host of the Unfreaking Believable podcast with Betsy Koulikowski and
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Jenny Samarred Labranch, and I've written a variety of short
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: stories and novels that explore fear in a lot of
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: different ways, from Gothic folk horror to paranormal to horror comedy. Today,
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: I want to talk to you a little bit about
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: how horror works and how you can use some of
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: those same tools to scare your readers. We all love
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: a scary story. Horror has been around forever. It's one
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: of the best selling genres in books, in film, one
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: of the easiest kinds of screenplays to sell, and one
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: of the most universal forms of storytelling we have. But
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: here's the thing. Horror isn't just about monsters or blood
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: or jump scares, and it's core. Horror works because it
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: taps into fears we already carry with us. The most
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: effective horror stories are built on primordial fears, the kinds
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: of fears humans have had since long before we've had
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: the language for them. Fear of death, fear of darkness,
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: fear of predators, fear of isolation, fear of losing control
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: of our bodies, our minds, our choices. When you're writing horror,
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: you don't have to invent a new fear. You just
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: have to aim the story at the one your reader
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: already understands on a gut level. Horror works on different levels.
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: Sometimes it is a jump scare, fast loud shocking. Sometimes
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: it's a slow burn that creeps under the reader's skin
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: and stays there. Sometimes it's just pure atmosphere, that feeling
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: that something is wrong, even if you can't quite tell why,
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: and pacing is everything. Short sentences speed up the heart rate.
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: Longer ones let dread seep in, and one of the
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: most powerful tricks in horror make the safe unsafe a home,
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: a school, a familiar street. When those places turn hostile,
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: the reader loses their sense of security, right along with
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: their characters. Here's the secret most new writers miss. Horror
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: only works if we care about the characters. We're not
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: scared because something bad happens. We're scared because something bad
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: happens to someone we've connected with. If your reader doesn't
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: care who's in danger, then the monster doesn't matter. Let's
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: talk tropes. Horror tropes exist for a reason. The abandoned place,
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: the cursed object, the feeling of being watched, the monster
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: that won't stay dead. I'll be right back. These aren't
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: cliches if you understand why they work. Tropes are shortcuts
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: into fear. They tap into the expectations your reader already has.
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: Your job isn't to avoid them, it's to twist them
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: just enough to surprise us. Writing horror isn't just about
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: shocking your audience. It's about understanding fear, where it comes from,
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: how it builds, and how it lingers. If you can
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: tap into something primal, control your pacing, make the familiar dangerous,
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: and ground it all in characters that we care about,
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: you won't just scare your readers. You'll haunt them, and honestly,
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: that's kind of the goal.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Back to you, Bill, Thank you JD. Cain. And remember
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: she's the author of the Manifest Destiny series, the most
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: recent volume of which is The Night Doctor's Blade. All right,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: now let's talk to Mark McCraw. Welcome to the podcast.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Right, thank you so much, thank you for having.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Me, Thank you for being here. Okay, traditional first question,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: if you could offer writers one piece of advice, what
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: would it be.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to quote Roy C. Bennett that says,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: never stop dreaming, never stop believing, never give up, never
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: stop trying, and never stop learning.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: That pretty much covers it all.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: That's really good advice, although maybe some days it's harder
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: to get yourself to keep believing.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: But yes, absolutely, yeah, the imposter syndrome gets you all
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, it's sure done. Well, tell us how
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: you got started writing.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I started writing in twenty twenty. I actually had been
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: fifteen years prior to that. I was a teacher's aide
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: and I had seen a lot of authors come into
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the school, and I started asking questions, and you know,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: went on with life and did other jobs. Liked in
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: corrections and into education and things like that. And I
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: was a pastor for a while and just done a
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: lot of different kind of jobs and nonprofit and I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: started thinking, you know, I have all these stories that
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I've had with my children, with my grandchildren being in
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: the military. I was I'm an Air Force veteran, Air
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Force Reserve veteran, and I said, you know, I just
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: got these stories. Why don't I start writing? So I
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: started in the beginning of twenty twenty with Did You
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Come Home for Lunch? Which is a military dependent story
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: about a boy and her boy's father goes on temporary
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: duty and when he comes home, the little boy says,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: did you come home for lunch? And he'd been gone
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: for like two weeks. You know, the little boy was
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: only three years old. So that's kind of how that
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: started out. I wanted to write in my niche of
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: military dependence and started writing a couple of those, and
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: then went on to use my elementary experience, my children
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: and grandchildren's experiences, and just started writing theme related books,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: which has been very helpful for the schools and daycares
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: because the principles and daycare directors can ask me for
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: the themes and I can provide those to him.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: Fascinating. So when you started talking about all of your
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: work experience, I thought, this sounds like really heavy material.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: I'm curious why you were more drawn to the children's
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: books than maybe writing for adults. I think you've started
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: touching on that, but could you maybe expand on that
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: a little bit.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Sure. Absolutely, I've been dealing with children ever since I
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: was thirteen, through summer camps and counselors and things of
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: that nature. So because not only was I an education
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I was an elementary school teacher, but I also taught
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: migrant head start. I've worked with infants all the way
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: up to college students, but I preferred to write for
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: the kindergarten to fifth grade. That was my prime, prime
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: area that I wanted to have some books out on.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: And I've written twelve books and now I'm in my
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: fourth anthology, So I'm really excited about that. And I'm
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: working on a book thirteen with another author out of more,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Oklahoma who actually as we're working on a bullying book
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and we're both we both have been former second grade teachers.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: That's amazing. Congratulations, thank you, thank you, sev So for you,
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: what comes first? Do you write the script first or
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: the story portion of your book and then someone else
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: illustrates for you or how do you go about that?
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I usually I go with a title. I find a
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: catchy title, and then I build my story around that title,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: and basically I just start pre writing. When I get
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: these ideas, I text myself. It might be dialogue that
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I'll text myself throughout the year, maybe with children and grandchildren.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I try to dedicate. Not all my books are like that,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: but I try to dedicate each book to a child
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: or grandchild that I have. And I've got some two
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: new ones that two new babies coming this year, grand babies,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: so I got to get busy thinking about in the
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: future about writing some more books to dedicate to them.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: So I'll be looking for their characteristics and that kind
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: of thing, and that's how I do it. I put
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: them in folders, and I put them up on the
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: wall in a file folder holder, and I just moved
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: from book to book, and I just go back and
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: after pre written and do the normal writing process with
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: the you know, with the revising and the drafting and
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: all that, and that's how I do it.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: So what's your goal with these books? I mean, I
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: think you're making that clear and we shouldn't be surprised
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: given that you've well you've been in the Air Force,
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: but you've also been a teacher. Are you looking for
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: books to be instructive or educational something like that.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Well, my mantras are very simple. Literacy, learning and legacy.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Those are the three things that I focus on the most.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: In addition to I want to make a difference in
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: the lives of children. I've over the years, I've had
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of different children who have written cards and letters,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and oftentimes I'll go back and look in a book
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: that I have that with all these little things, and
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I start to think and wonder, how are they, what
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: are they? How are they today? You know? What are
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: they doing today? You know? And sometimes these are thirty
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: and forty years of different kinds of of materials that
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: they've provided to me, and I just enjoyed doing that.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I enjoy going into schools and daycares. I've read to
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: over a thousand students getting ready to do World Read
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: a Loud Day on February fourth to an elementary school
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: in Texas, and so I'm really excited about that. And
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I just enjoyed doing that and seeing the children's face
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: light up. And a lot of daycares they've never seen
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: an author, so and so it's kind of cute to
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: go in and talk to the little kids.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, that's gotta be fantastic. You were talking about
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: illustrators with Laura. Do you have any role in that?
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Have you selected your illustrators or how's that? How does
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: the pairing occur?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I don't do the illustrations or the formatting
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: or any of that. I have other people that do that.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I try to vet my illustrators. I find them.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I have one on that was on TikTok Art Fali
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: who's who wrote or helped illustrate Babbling Betty and she's
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: currently working on the bullying book right now for me.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: And uh, you know, my daughter has illustrated. I also
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: have had other illustrators I had a Ukrainian illustrator, Irish
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: davy Dinko, who's done three of my books. One of
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: them was It Happens and Nikolai Pickeolai was another one,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: and then there was another one that she did as well,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: so uh and as Amazing Alaskan Adventure. So she's done
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: three of my books as an illustrator, and uh, there's
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: so many scams out there. She's got to be very careful.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: So that's why I make sure I vet the illustrators.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, I'm glad to hear you're mindful of that.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: And honestly, I think that's that's very interesting. I think
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: in my mind I had just kind of assumed that
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: you had linked up with somebody and that you guys
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: were just working as a team now. But you're describing
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: having different illustrators for different projects. Is it a style
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: that you're looking for when you when you look for
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: an illustrator or how do you how do you decide
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: on that?
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I just decide on how they worked, the reviews, things
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: of that nature. I look into that through personal connections.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: My wife was part of a group that uh that
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I ran into an illustrator and started watching this illustrator,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and this illustrator was really good, had not really done
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: any children's books, and then began to do Babbling Betty
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: for me and opened up a lot of doors for
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: as far as illustrations and portfolios and things of that nature.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And then she went on to do other other other
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: illustrations and for other authors. So I was really excited
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: about that. Now there was one at the very beginning
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: that took nine months to go through Archery Publishing, and
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: I provided the illustration department the ideas that I wanted
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: to have in the book with a military peep person
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: and uh uh, the kind of the kind of way
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: that I wanted to do it. And I also put
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: myself in the book as as the military person. And
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I kind of wait and see when I read the book,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to see if the children realize that it's actually me
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: in the book, so you know that, like who in
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: the room is, who's in this room is in this book?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: And then they kind of look around and they're all
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: looking at each other, and I said, and then some
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: little one little boy go, it's you. You know. So
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: that's kind of kind of a neat thing, so fun.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: I love that. That's so neat it worked out so
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: well for you. How do you You're talking about going
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: to schools and reading, but how do you promote children's books?
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: It seems to me I've thought about writing children's books before,
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: but just seems like it would be so daunting to
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: break into that and then to connect with your audience
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: and promote and get them out there. And surely, surely
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: these babies in preschool and elementary school aren't on social media,
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: I hope it, which is a way a lot of
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: authors are connecting with their readers.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So how do you do that?
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: It's really about relationships and really being an advocate for yourself,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: calling the daycares, contacting them, or being referred to from
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: one daycare director to the other, or getting our reference
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: from one where you've done an event and then going
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: on and having it got a reference for the next event,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: and that kind of thing. So I do a lot
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: of promotions, and of course on social media, I have
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: worldwide distribution in over twenty two different countries, and so
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: it's just it's constantly making a dent in it every
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: day and just trying to be involved with writing groups
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: and things of that nature and getting myself out there
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: in events, especially because one of the things Simon and Schuster,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: editors and publishers and things of that nature said in
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: New York City in twenty twenty three when I was
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: there at in Times Square for a publishing conference. One
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: of the things says, they don't know who you are
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: until they know who you are.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: That's true, absolutely, Yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: It's really about you know, getting in there, you know,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: and being out in the public.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: Doing this for yourself. Well done, good job.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Do you.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: Do you find that it's harder to write for children
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: than for adults.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Have you?
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: Have you tried? I mean, I've thought about writing children's books,
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: but again I just I keep I think that it
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: would be harder.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: What do you think it can be hard? I mean,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: you've obviously got it to make sure that it's on
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: the readability. That's important, making sure that that's not too wordy,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: but in depending on the group of children that you're
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: dealing with. As you know, reading levels are very difficult
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: to determine sometimes. And when I say that, I mean
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: you can test a child and find out what readability
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: they're on, but you've got so many children that are
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: that are not on grade level, and then you've got
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: some that are on grade level, so you kind of
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: when you're trying to figure out a readability, it sometimes
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: can be very challenging because true because some are reading
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and more advanced and some are not reading advanced and
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: uh so uh and that's so that's always the challenge
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: is making it not too adult wordy and that kind
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: of thing, and trying to narrow it down with illustrations.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: And I'm a very visual person, even on chapter books.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I like to uh and I've got a few of
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: small chapter books that are not very lengthy at all,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: and I try to put throw some pictures in and
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: stuff like that because I'm very visual.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Wow, am I right in thinking? You've published twelve children's books?
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, twelve children's books, and the fourth anthology is getting
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: ready to go on to Amazon pretty soon. It's uh,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: flash fiction is actually what it's the one that I'm
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: in right now. It's just it's getting getting ready to
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: go to to the to get published.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: And okay, tough question. Which one's your favorite? Thank you?
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: My favorite? Oh? My favorite book is actually always it
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: always changes from me because I like them all. But
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Nikolai Pickolay, I saw that and it's a book. Yeah,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: go ahead, No.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: I just went prepping for the interview. I saw that.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: I thought that looked really interesting. You've got a co writer,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: or maybe that was just the artist name I saw
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: on it.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: That's actually a co writer. Nicolai Picklay is actually a
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: book that was written by a ten year old and
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: I both of us collaborated on the way we wanted
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: the illustrations, working on trying to get the ten year old,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: which was actually my grandson, and to actually learn how
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: to do a bio for the back and all of
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing. And he was actually on a podcast,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: but we only did it by audio and not by video,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: so it was and what's really exciting about Nicolai Picklay
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: is it was actually read on TikTok by a lady
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: by the name of Ursula, and she actually was in
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: a movie and so she actually my wife had sent
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: sent the book to her and she actually read it
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: with pickol ear rings on and everything and actually uh
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and actually read it on TikTok. So I was excited
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: about that, of course, and I'm having fun with it.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I've got pickle pins, I've got pickles, pickle stickers and
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: all kinds of pickles. You know.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good for you. All right, one last question, what
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: I mean you've mentioned your anthologies, but what else, what books?
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: What can we look forward to seeing from you in
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: the future.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, we're in the second part of
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: our revising of the illustration, so you can look forward
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: to a bullying book that's going to come out. And
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I actually had a principle when I did an event
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: on October thirty. First, I dressed up like a composition
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: notebook and had a big giant pencil and everything attached
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: to my composition notebook. And everybody's like, what are you?
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: And they like, I'm a composition notebook, I'm a writer
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff and uh. And it was exciting
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: that the kids got to see this. But but you know,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I've I'm it's really cool because it's opened up so
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: many doors. I'm in a vending machine right now with
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: an elementary school, which I donate some books to. Uh,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and so I'm excited about that. I'm a Kawanas member.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I do a lot with literacy with that that side
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: of the house. But you can look forward to some
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: really cool books. I've got some in the hopper. I'm
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: just want to get them out and uh, of course,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: as you know, it takes time to go through the
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: illustration process. So we've been going on for about four
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: or five months on illustrations, and so I'm looking at
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: it really excited to see it coming out. So from
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: one of the principles that I did the events, she said, Okay,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: when you got it, come come, let's do another event
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: with with us and you can talk to the kids
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: about bullying.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Oh fantastic way to go. Thank you, Well, this has
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: been a pleasure. Thank you Mark, thank you for being
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: on the podcast.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Just one parting thought in conclusion, this will probably be
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: the last time I'll get to mention the writer con
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: Cruise on this podcast anyway, because registration shut down sometime
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: in mid to late February. So if you're thinking about it,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: don't delay, go do it. We have such a good
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: time and you will also find it, I think, to
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: be a rewarding educational experience that advances your writing career.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: It's eight days. We fly out of Fort Lauderdale, beautiful scenery,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: plus three different writers on board to teach, plus an
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: agent who is willing to meet with everyone on board,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: chat or hear your pitches or whatever you want to do.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: For that matter, I'll sit and chat with everyone on
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: board even if we don't have an appointment. We all
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: dine together every evening, so it really is a unique opportunity.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: You've done every one of these, Laura. You enjoy the cruises,
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: don't you.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: This is We're going to all new destinations this time,
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: so even though we've done the cruises before, this is
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: going to be all new. And I am so excited
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: to see the places that we're going. I love to
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: see different parts of the world, and I am also
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: really excited to meet our group and see who we're
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: going to be working with. People have consistently been blown
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: away and just can't say enough about what a good
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: time they have on these cruises. We work hard, yes,
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: so calm ready to write and advance that work in progress,
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: but we play hard too. We have fun we had
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: Like you mentioned, we have our dinners together, so we
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: get to visit and chat and we just have a
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: good time.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Probably should have mentioned that we have all these classes
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: over twenty hours, but that's when the boat is at sea.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: We'll give you fake when the boat's in port. I
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: know you want to go on excursions and stuff, and
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: that's fine. But the rest of the time, well, I mean,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: we may be on board reading your work, but you
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: can go off the boat and go check it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: I need to put a cappy baron about that.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The dates are March seventh through the fifteenth. Check
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: out the writer Con website, which is just what it
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: sounds like w R I T E R C O
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: N dot com and find out more information. Get the
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: complete itinerary register, pick your room, everything you need to
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: do there. All right, until next time, writers, keep writing,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: All right, See you next time.