Latest / The You Project / #1585 The Psychology Of Ageing - Harps & Tiff

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#1585 The Psychology Of Ageing - Harps & Tiff · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get a team. It's Jumbo, it's Fatty Harps, It's
0:03
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook. The box of the pugilistic thug, the
0:07
Speaker 1: one of the rapidly expanding profile. I was going to
0:11
Speaker 1: say ego, but I went profile. She's just a quite
0:17
Speaker 1: achieve it, just chipping away, just posting thirty photos of
0:20
Speaker 1: herself a day, just chipping away quietly in the back.
0:25
Speaker 2: Well, It's true.
0:26
Speaker 1: If I was in the shape you're in, I'd post
0:29
Speaker 1: like a motherfucker as well. I only post buttos of
0:32
Speaker 1: me in a dressing gown now and in a kubra.
0:36
Speaker 2: Juicing gown and in a kubra.
0:38
Speaker 1: That's there's a picture. Nobody needs.
0:41
Speaker 2: Hi tip, My heart's reporting in for Judy. How are you?
0:45
Speaker 1: Yeah? Look never better? Never better. I'm I've got a
0:48
Speaker 1: busy week. It's two eight Tuesday. Lots of work on
0:53
Speaker 1: this week, bit of interstate travel, bit of talking to
0:56
Speaker 1: humans about the human experience, and I wanted to talk today,
1:02
Speaker 1: though this won't be super long. I put up a
1:04
Speaker 1: post this morning which a few people have sent me.
1:07
Speaker 1: I've got quite a few comments on and a few
1:09
Speaker 1: people sent me messages about and I'm just fascinated with this,
1:15
Speaker 1: and some people will think, well, you're fascinated with this
1:17
Speaker 1: topic because you are old, And while that is true
1:21
Speaker 1: that I am old, that is not the reason I'm
1:23
Speaker 1: fascinated with it. I'm fascinated with this topic because I
1:27
Speaker 1: think it plays a it's going to say massive, Well,
1:31
Speaker 1: let's just go with significant role in the way that
1:35
Speaker 1: we age, the quality of our lifespan and health span,
1:41
Speaker 1: and some of the interesting good and bad conversations that
1:47
Speaker 1: had around the way that we age. And so this
1:53
Speaker 1: is probably going to be called something like the Psychology
1:55
Speaker 1: of aging this podcast. But so here's what he's what
2:00
Speaker 1: I writ Here's what I writ and this is on Instagram,
2:04
Speaker 1: Facebook and all that if you want to find it
2:06
Speaker 1: and you want to refer to it or showbody or
2:09
Speaker 1: show somebody it because it's broadly relevant the psychologist. So
2:12
Speaker 1: this is the whiteboard post part the Psychology of aging.
2:17
Speaker 1: There's what you're actually capable of doing, creating, learning, and becoming,
2:22
Speaker 1: and then there's the story of what you should at
2:25
Speaker 1: and shouldn't be doing at your age. One is an
2:28
Speaker 1: ocean of possibilities, one a self created prison, and here's
2:33
Speaker 1: the words around it. Of course, we need to navigate
2:36
Speaker 1: the inevitability of chronological aging. But the way that you
2:40
Speaker 1: and I age mentally, emotionally, and physically is a variable
2:44
Speaker 1: that we can manipulate via our choices, behaviors and atypical thinking.
2:50
Speaker 1: Eat well, move well, set goals, learn new things, have
2:54
Speaker 1: new experiences. Have a bigger purpose than you laugh at
2:58
Speaker 1: silly shit. Can control your controllables, do everything, and I
3:02
Speaker 1: mean everything in your capacity to optimize your potential for long,
3:07
Speaker 1: healthy and happy life. And before anyone asks. While we
3:11
Speaker 1: can't change our genetics that is the DNA sequence of
3:14
Speaker 1: our genes, we can influence genetic expression through various factors
3:19
Speaker 1: such as lifestyle, environment, diet, attitude, and behavior. These changes
3:23
Speaker 1: in gene expression can impact various aspects of our health,
3:27
Speaker 1: including a imne function, energy levels, health span over a
3:30
Speaker 1: longevity and more So, there's the practical reality of aging,
3:37
Speaker 1: which is like chronological inevitability, a chronological constant. That is, tomorrow,
3:43
Speaker 1: I'm going to be sixty years and two hundred and
3:46
Speaker 1: thirty seven, not two hundred and thirty six days, and
3:48
Speaker 1: the next day two hundred and thirty eight days or
3:51
Speaker 1: whatever the number is for me, and that number is
3:54
Speaker 1: never going down. The only thing that will happen is
3:57
Speaker 1: we'll stop going forward one day when I when I
4:00
Speaker 1: fucking bite the bullet, no pun intended, Sorry Donald, when
4:06
Speaker 1: I die, let's just go with that. But for the moment,
4:09
Speaker 1: hopefully in my day numbers, my chronology keeps kind of
4:12
Speaker 1: moving in that forward direction, and I keep getting chronologically
4:17
Speaker 1: chronologically older. But the way that we age, and the
4:21
Speaker 1: way that we talk about aging, and the way that
4:23
Speaker 1: we think about aging, and the way that we limit
4:29
Speaker 1: ourselves and others by virtue of the stories that we
4:33
Speaker 1: tell ourselves about what is normal in inverted commas, what
4:39
Speaker 1: is you know at your age? What is one of
4:42
Speaker 1: my least favorite terms in the world. Is age appropriate
4:47
Speaker 1: If you're talking about very young people, perhaps, But if
4:49
Speaker 1: you're talking about old people, to me, age appropriate is
4:54
Speaker 1: just another way of saying self limiting, or you know,
5:00
Speaker 1: it's some kind of barrier. Now. Of course, there is
5:04
Speaker 1: the practical reality that as we get older, of course,
5:07
Speaker 1: there are physiological limitations. But the rate at which those
5:13
Speaker 1: limitations come into existence, or the way they do, is
5:19
Speaker 1: to an extent, as I said in my whiteboard post, controllable,
5:24
Speaker 1: So I remember, and I'll shut up after this tiff
5:28
Speaker 1: and then you can jump in. But I remember when
5:30
Speaker 1: I started my PhD, there was more than a couple
5:32
Speaker 1: of people who said to me, because I started my
5:35
Speaker 1: PhD fifty six, how long will it take? I said,
5:38
Speaker 1: I don't know, four or five six, I don't know
5:41
Speaker 1: however long it takes maybe five years, which looks like
5:44
Speaker 1: it's going to be around five years. And a bunch
5:47
Speaker 1: of people said to me, when I say, a bunch
5:51
Speaker 1: somewhere between five and ten, people said, oh, so you're
5:56
Speaker 1: going to be like sixty one when you finish, and
6:00
Speaker 1: I went, yes, yes I will. And I said, but
6:04
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I'm going to be sixty one anyway.
6:08
Speaker 1: Like let's hope I make it, but let's assume that
6:10
Speaker 1: I'm still alive in five years. Then I'm going to
6:14
Speaker 1: be sixty one with a PhD or sixty one without
6:16
Speaker 1: a PhD. So if that's my choice, I'm choosing the PhD.
6:21
Speaker 1: Thanks very much, you know. But if I was starting
6:24
Speaker 1: that PhD at twenty six, nobody would talk about my age,
6:28
Speaker 1: or thirty six, nobody would talk about my age. Nobody
6:32
Speaker 1: would go, oh, hang on right, And if for example,
6:37
Speaker 1: I had some significant I mean with this with respects,
6:41
Speaker 1: say intellectual disability or some extreme limiting factor that meant
6:46
Speaker 1: it was very, very, very difficult or almost impossible for
6:50
Speaker 1: me to then I would understand that. But most people's
6:54
Speaker 1: curiosity was just around. But you'll be so old, you know,
7:00
Speaker 1: and that, and I understand that, by the way. I'm
7:02
Speaker 1: not one bit offended by that at all. What I
7:05
Speaker 1: am is I'm curious. I'm curious that we have these stories.
7:09
Speaker 1: I know I said it shut up, but I will
7:11
Speaker 1: I'm curious that we have I'm very aware of that
7:13
Speaker 1: because I'm doing it. P Hdan awareness, did you know?
7:16
Speaker 1: But I'm very cognizant that we all have these stories.
7:22
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying there that I don't understand them.
7:26
Speaker 1: I'm just leaning into it and saying are these stories
7:30
Speaker 1: helpful or hurtful? Like when we go, oh, well, you're
7:34
Speaker 1: this age, therefore you probably should be thinking about these things.
7:38
Speaker 1: I looked at a guy this morning, Tiff, and he
7:42
Speaker 1: came through on my feed on Insta, and he's eighty
7:47
Speaker 1: three and he bench presses three hundred and sixty pounds,
7:51
Speaker 1: which is about what one hundred and seventy or seventy
7:53
Speaker 1: five k's. But my dad so he's two years younger
7:57
Speaker 1: than my dad. Yeah, and he's a fucking mom and
8:00
Speaker 1: he's just this big, strong Now, a lot of people
8:04
Speaker 1: would think, oh, that's that's too much like the dude.
8:08
Speaker 1: I looked at the dude. You know, I don't have
8:10
Speaker 1: a crystal ball. But while he's eighty three and he's
8:12
Speaker 1: doing it right. So he's outlived the average Australian male
8:16
Speaker 1: by three years already, So very strong, very functional and
8:21
Speaker 1: not following the script, you know, and I just think
8:25
Speaker 1: that it's really I mean, you're still young. But as
8:29
Speaker 1: we spoke the other day, we're talking about, you know,
8:31
Speaker 1: between now and death. You and I did a podcast,
8:34
Speaker 1: but just the stories that we tell ourselves, and you know,
8:37
Speaker 1: we don't want to be unrealistic and we don't want
8:40
Speaker 1: to be reckless. But at the same time, from an
8:45
Speaker 1: experiential perspective, like how we age, is one really up
8:53
Speaker 1: to us to a point, like we can manipulate food
8:57
Speaker 1: and exercise and attitude and sleep and to an extent,
9:00
Speaker 1: stress and cortisol and all of those things. We can
9:03
Speaker 1: at least work on those things. Lifestyle behaviors, habits, you know, situation, circumstance, environments,
9:10
Speaker 1: work life balance, a work life relationship. All of those
9:14
Speaker 1: things we can at least influence, if not completely control.
9:21
Speaker 1: All right, I'll be quiet now.
9:23
Speaker 3: The thing that's more powerful than the things we're controlling, though,
9:26
Speaker 3: is the story that we develop behind the control. So
9:30
Speaker 3: when people talk about someone who's young and fit and
9:34
Speaker 3: they just they collapsed and had a heart attack and
9:36
Speaker 3: their life and they were only whatever, and they ran
9:39
Speaker 3: marathons and they were they never ate junk and they
9:43
Speaker 3: never drank, and we list all of these these material
9:47
Speaker 3: reasons why they're fit and healthy, but we don't think
9:50
Speaker 3: about what's driving them to run every day while you know,
9:53
Speaker 3: how much are they stressing and obsessing over all of
9:57
Speaker 3: those other things to control their health outcome and what
10:02
Speaker 3: what neurochemistry is getting pumped into their mind as they're
10:05
Speaker 3: stressed about it.
10:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also one hundred percent like the external appearance
10:10
Speaker 1: of fitness and function doesn't always accurately reflect the underlying stuff,
10:16
Speaker 1: which is what you're kind of saying. And you know,
10:19
Speaker 1: when we just extrapolate all that psychology across the lifespan.
10:22
Speaker 1: And I've told this story of probably three times, but
10:26
Speaker 1: I'll tell it once again quickly. I remember backing out
10:28
Speaker 1: of my driveway which is onto a main street, and
10:31
Speaker 1: I can't see and I nearly, very nearly backed into
10:35
Speaker 1: a bloke on a skateboard. Do you remember that, right?
10:38
Speaker 2: Yeah?
10:39
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I felt terrible and anyway, it was fine.
10:42
Speaker 1: It was a near miss. He stopped, he picked up
10:43
Speaker 1: his skateboard. I got out and I went round and
10:45
Speaker 1: say sorry, I nearly killed you. And to my complete
10:50
Speaker 1: fucking surprise, I was about fifty then, so ten years ago,
10:53
Speaker 1: and he was in his sixties, and he was fucking
10:57
Speaker 1: scorching along the footpath like a Tino, and I was
11:02
Speaker 1: fascinated with him, and you know, I just spoke to him.
11:06
Speaker 1: I said, how long have you been skateboarding? He said,
11:09
Speaker 1: basically since they got to Australia, So he'd been skateboarding
11:13
Speaker 1: since he was ten or twelve years old, you know,
11:16
Speaker 1: since the seventies, had never stopped, and you know, he
11:21
Speaker 1: had a car, he said, but when I've got to
11:22
Speaker 1: go anywhere that's just within a few k's I skate.
11:26
Speaker 1: It's like it's not and he doesn't do it because
11:28
Speaker 1: it's trendy or it's hip, or but to look at
11:32
Speaker 1: this motherfucker move I'm like, oh, yeah, like this guy
11:36
Speaker 1: has not stopped right. And I looked at him anyway,
11:39
Speaker 1: we said goodbye, and he headed off, you know, in
11:41
Speaker 1: the other direction. And I watched him get on his
11:43
Speaker 1: board and he stood on his board, he jumped on
11:46
Speaker 1: his board, and he pushed off down the road like literally,
11:51
Speaker 1: like from the back, you would think it was an
11:52
Speaker 1: athletic twenty five or thirty year old, like the way
11:55
Speaker 1: that he moved. And I'm like, well, he moves like
11:58
Speaker 1: that because he's just always done it, you know, like
12:02
Speaker 1: there's nothing somebody else would say, what the fuck are
12:06
Speaker 1: you doing? You're in your sixties, your bone density is low,
12:09
Speaker 1: this yere pretty. Oh you're just you're putting yourself at
12:12
Speaker 1: risk of injury. And like this guy and yeah, like
12:16
Speaker 1: I said, he wasn't able to prove anything. He wasn't
12:19
Speaker 1: on a mission. He didn't think he was a big deal.
12:22
Speaker 1: He was like, well why wouldn't I This is convenient,
12:25
Speaker 1: Like it's just it's it's way better than walking. I
12:28
Speaker 1: get everywhere four times quicker, and it's fun and he
12:31
Speaker 1: loves it. And yeah, I just think that that for me,
12:35
Speaker 1: that that kind of just turned on a light bulb
12:38
Speaker 1: in my head because even I was surprised, and I'm
12:41
Speaker 1: the optimist in this, I'm like, for a moment, I'm like, fuck,
12:45
Speaker 1: how old you? When I saw him, and even I'm like, well,
12:49
Speaker 1: even though I didn't think it was inappropriate, I thought
12:51
Speaker 1: it's unusual, and what a pity that it's unusual.
12:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon our environment, and who's around us plays
12:59
Speaker 3: a mass part. If I go back to Tazzy, all
13:02
Speaker 3: my Tazzy friends have grown up kids, a fit pretty
13:07
Speaker 3: grown up kids now. But the friends that I hang
13:09
Speaker 3: around here. I had always had this theory based on
13:12
Speaker 3: my first boss, who when I left Tazzy, she was
13:15
Speaker 3: sixty three, and I was like, well, you're not leaving
13:18
Speaker 3: this business anytime soon, and there's no room for any
13:21
Speaker 3: progression until you do. And she's still working full time
13:24
Speaker 3: now at eighty three. Because she was always around young girls.
13:28
Speaker 3: She would always had this team of young girls.
13:30
Speaker 2: And she was like a kid.
13:33
Speaker 3: So I spent so much time saying that along the
13:36
Speaker 3: way going you hang out with young people. And then
13:38
Speaker 3: I looked around my tribe lately and they're all sixty
13:43
Speaker 3: year olds, and I go, hang on, I'm doing the opposite,
13:47
Speaker 3: but they're sixty year olds that think, behave and have
13:49
Speaker 3: fun like they're twenty My PT group swim well, that
13:55
Speaker 3: got me in the cold water this week. Charlie and
13:58
Speaker 3: his wife Jane, and they're all then they're sick is
14:00
Speaker 3: and above and it's a lot. And I call them
14:02
Speaker 3: my kindergartens. It's like a pack of kindergarten kids. And
14:07
Speaker 3: that is contagious and we have to be careful of it.
14:09
Speaker 3: And I think workplaces and the places where we're spending
14:13
Speaker 3: the most of our time with the people that we
14:15
Speaker 3: may not necessarily be choosing, that's who's influencing our mindset
14:20
Speaker 3: around this stuff.
14:22
Speaker 1: I think it's really I mean, you know, we need
14:24
Speaker 1: to be intelligent and we're not talking like I said,
14:27
Speaker 1: we're not talking about being reckless or silly. But you know,
14:31
Speaker 1: somebody sent me a video the other day and it
14:35
Speaker 1: had this side by side. I feel bad saying this,
14:39
Speaker 1: but it's just true. So I'm just going to fuck it.
14:42
Speaker 1: But it had Joe Biden right on the stage, and
14:47
Speaker 1: you know, and like with complete respect, I think when
14:53
Speaker 1: you know, it's not a revelation to say there's like
14:55
Speaker 1: there's some real cognitive decline and physiological decline and full
15:00
Speaker 1: respect for him and all of that, but you know,
15:03
Speaker 1: there's stuff going on there. And then in the parallel
15:09
Speaker 1: video was Mick Jagger, right from a concert like two
15:14
Speaker 1: weeks ago, fucking sprinting across this stage like forty meters
15:19
Speaker 1: to one side, rocking out, then sprinting, I mean sprinting right,
15:23
Speaker 1: and then dancing and rocking on. And I looked up
15:27
Speaker 1: how old he is just before we went live on
15:29
Speaker 1: the twenty six of this month, which is ten days
15:33
Speaker 1: as we record, he's eighty one eighty one, So he's
15:38
Speaker 1: running round and I mean, again, you know, you would
15:43
Speaker 1: think that that's not possible, but and this is the
15:49
Speaker 1: whole of course, there's a physiological limit, and there's a
15:52
Speaker 1: physiological kind of reality, of course, But I don't think
15:57
Speaker 1: virtually any of us are anywhere near our threshold, you know,
16:02
Speaker 1: Like I know that, and I'm not the role model
16:07
Speaker 1: or the high watermark for anything. But you know, our
16:11
Speaker 1: brain is a physical organ, right, just like you're living,
16:14
Speaker 1: your heart, your kidneys, all physical organs. Your brain. Your
16:17
Speaker 1: brain is not your mind, right, your mind is not.
16:21
Speaker 1: But your brain is a physiological organ. It's organic. And
16:26
Speaker 1: how well it works, how well your brain works has
16:30
Speaker 1: got a bit to do with genetics. We don't know exactly.
16:33
Speaker 1: Everybody goes, oh it's fifteen percent. We really don't fucking know.
16:36
Speaker 1: But my guess is that it's a bit somewhere around
16:39
Speaker 1: twenty percent. That's my guess. But I'm we don't know,
16:42
Speaker 1: but I reckon it's about eighty percent about behavior and
16:45
Speaker 1: lifestyle and choices and nutrition and sleep and thinking and stories.
16:51
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm sixty one this year. I'm sixty
16:56
Speaker 1: one at the end of September. September twenty eight. Put
16:58
Speaker 1: in your diary. Don't get any trouble tip just something
17:00
Speaker 1: big and expensive. But did you just write that down?
17:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it Joready and McColl that's hilarious.
17:11
Speaker 1: But I'm pretty sure that from a physiological point of
17:15
Speaker 1: view that I'm definitely from a cognitive point of view,
17:18
Speaker 1: I'm as good as I was when I was forty.
17:21
Speaker 1: I definitely have more knowledge. I would say I have
17:24
Speaker 1: more understanding. I'd say I have more patience. I'm not
17:28
Speaker 1: smarter in inverted commas, but I know more. And my
17:32
Speaker 1: ability to function and operate and navigate life, and my
17:35
Speaker 1: recall and my creativity and my problem solving and my attention.
17:40
Speaker 1: You know, maybe I'm delusional. I don't think I am,
17:42
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure they're is good or better than
17:45
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Now that shouldn't happen, or that doesn't
17:48
Speaker 1: typically happen, I should say. But what we can do
17:53
Speaker 1: is we can either wind back the clock, a metaphoric clock,
18:00
Speaker 1: doing all of the things that improve cognitive function, that
18:04
Speaker 1: improved physiology, that improve immune system function, strength and power
18:09
Speaker 1: and speed and balance and agility and range of movement
18:13
Speaker 1: and flexibility, all of these things that at any age
18:18
Speaker 1: we can manipulate. My dad at eighty five, as everyone
18:21
Speaker 1: knows because I've been banging on about him. You know,
18:24
Speaker 1: he's gone from four months ago not working out at all.
18:27
Speaker 1: So now he's working out three days a week, and like,
18:32
Speaker 1: honestly almost by the week. I can see improvement in
18:35
Speaker 1: this eighty five year old body. Now he can three
18:38
Speaker 1: months later, he can do stuff now that three months
18:42
Speaker 1: earlier he couldn't do. So from a functional perspective, he
18:46
Speaker 1: is lowering his biological age at the chronological age of
18:51
Speaker 1: eighty five. And another thing that's worth mentioning here, And
18:55
Speaker 1: I want your thoughts on this is the high regard,
19:06
Speaker 1: the ridiculous high regard that we hold in our culture,
19:09
Speaker 1: that we hold retirement like it's some something to celebrate
19:15
Speaker 1: and to look forward to. When we turned down the
19:20
Speaker 1: emotion and we get away from the story of how
19:23
Speaker 1: amazing retirement will be, the reality, the psychological, emotional, sociological,
19:30
Speaker 1: physiological reality of retirement for many people is catastrophic and
19:37
Speaker 1: what we see with many people. So think about this,
19:41
Speaker 1: you know, Friday, and this is my dad's story. My
19:46
Speaker 1: dad was running a multimillion dollar shopping center on a Friday.
19:50
Speaker 1: He had purpose, He had lots of connection, He had responsibility.
19:54
Speaker 1: He was using his brain all day every day. He
19:56
Speaker 1: was solving problems, he was being challenged, negotiating deals, he
20:01
Speaker 1: was having meaningful dialogues with interesting people. He was working
20:06
Speaker 1: forty to fifty hours a week. And then the following Monday,
20:10
Speaker 1: all of that was gone forever. All of that was
20:14
Speaker 1: gone forever. Now he had fifty years of that or
20:17
Speaker 1: a version of that, you know, meaning focus, per purpose,
20:22
Speaker 1: skill development, acquiring knowledge, understanding, resolving conflicts, solving problems, dealing
20:28
Speaker 1: with people and personalities, you know, navigating the career that
20:32
Speaker 1: we all have. And then boom, none of it. Him
20:35
Speaker 1: and Mary looking at each other, going, what do we
20:37
Speaker 1: do now? It's one o'clock. Now, that's fucking terrible for you.
20:43
Speaker 1: Now that's not to say we should all work to
20:45
Speaker 1: wear one hundred, but it is. It is to say
20:48
Speaker 1: that working or not, we need engagement, We need connection,
20:53
Speaker 1: We need to solve problems. We need to use our brain,
20:56
Speaker 1: we need cognitive stimulation, We need to be challenged, like
21:00
Speaker 1: because the moment that we stop using our body and brain,
21:04
Speaker 1: that shit goes into free fall.
21:07
Speaker 3: One hundred percent, My pop, who is one hundred.
21:09
Speaker 1: Now when you say that, I think you're fucking around
21:13
Speaker 1: because I always say I'm a hundred. But he actually
21:17
Speaker 1: is one hundred, isn't he? Yeah?
21:18
Speaker 2: And he looks so young, like he looks eighty and
21:23
Speaker 2: he he's now in a home.
21:27
Speaker 3: And when my nan went into that home, he moved
21:29
Speaker 3: on side into a self contained unit. But up until
21:32
Speaker 3: that point he lived in this enormous two story house
21:36
Speaker 3: with so he was out gardening and chopping wood all
21:39
Speaker 3: this he was playing golf, chopping wood, trimming the head
21:42
Speaker 3: these massive hedges around the property like he was because
21:46
Speaker 3: he was a farmer. He was a farmer and I
21:47
Speaker 3: think of that. I always think of why did my
21:50
Speaker 3: nan live to ninety five and my grandfather is one
21:53
Speaker 3: hundred and still going strong and he eats chocolates every day?
21:58
Speaker 3: And what are the traits and the lifestyle things, because
22:02
Speaker 3: they weren't you know, he played sport. But it's community
22:05
Speaker 3: and connection, it's personality, it's mindset, it's thoughts, and I
22:10
Speaker 3: just try and take so much about what I can
22:12
Speaker 3: observe from them and embody it.
22:16
Speaker 1: And you think about the mindset that goes with the
22:18
Speaker 1: way that he has aged. I bet he never got
22:21
Speaker 1: up and when Oh, I don't know if chopping wood
22:24
Speaker 1: is age appropriate? Right?
22:28
Speaker 3: Oh?
22:28
Speaker 1: Should I be doing this at my age? He's like, well,
22:30
Speaker 1: who the fuck else is going to do it? No
22:33
Speaker 1: one's here?
22:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well what else am I going to do? I'm
22:36
Speaker 2: going to sit on the couch? Yeah, what I'm I
22:37
Speaker 2: going to do?
22:38
Speaker 1: Yeah? Because like for better or worse, well for better,
22:42
Speaker 1: Fortunately for him, it doesn't appear that he had any
22:45
Speaker 1: dumb fucker in his ear going what's your dad's granddad's
22:49
Speaker 1: first name, Frank, Frank. I don't think you should be
22:52
Speaker 1: doing that, Frank, that's age inappropriate. What you should be
22:55
Speaker 1: on the couch. Let me get a fucking cushion. He'd
22:59
Speaker 1: be like, fuck your cushion, where's my axe? You know?
23:02
Speaker 1: And so much of what is consequential physiology, in other words,
23:07
Speaker 1: how well his body and brain worked. Not all of it,
23:11
Speaker 1: but a lot of it is just probably to do
23:14
Speaker 1: with one obviously, his lifestyle and behavior and how much
23:17
Speaker 1: he moved and how much he used his body and
23:20
Speaker 1: how well, but also the fact that he didn't have
23:24
Speaker 1: a story right, he didn't have an underlying psychology that
23:29
Speaker 1: said you shouldn't do this and what do you go on?
23:34
Speaker 2: No, I was going to say, what's your advice?
23:35
Speaker 3: Like people listening, it's easy when you're in the middle
23:38
Speaker 3: of an environment like we've landed in. I guess where
23:42
Speaker 3: you have developed this and can appreciate and have awareness
23:45
Speaker 3: and be in the middle of it and go yeah.
23:47
Speaker 2: I think like I think. I think I'm not.
23:52
Speaker 3: Boxed in by any idea of how old I am.
23:54
Speaker 3: What about people who are thinking, oh do it?
23:57
Speaker 1: Like?
23:57
Speaker 3: How do people become aware? Where would you suggest someone
24:00
Speaker 3: starts if they want to get aware of this?
24:04
Speaker 1: So I think we change our thinking. I think we
24:07
Speaker 1: change our thinking by our doing right, Like sitting on
24:11
Speaker 1: the couch going, oh, I need to change my attitude
24:15
Speaker 1: about aging. I need to change the way that I
24:17
Speaker 1: think about aging, my underlying psychology, my underlying stories about aging.
24:24
Speaker 1: I don't think for the most part that works. That
24:26
Speaker 1: may have a minor influence, but what really has an
24:29
Speaker 1: influence is when you go and do something, and then
24:34
Speaker 1: you progress and you evolve and you get stronger, or
24:36
Speaker 1: you go from being able to walk slow to walk medium,
24:40
Speaker 1: to walk fast and then a bit of jogging, and
24:42
Speaker 1: then you see some and you're like in your fifties,
24:44
Speaker 1: sixty seventies or beyond, and you start seeing improvement and
24:47
Speaker 1: function and so you've done something, and then all of
24:50
Speaker 1: a sudden, your thinking changes, your self belief, your expectation,
24:55
Speaker 1: changes your stories, your standards. You create a new normal,
25:01
Speaker 1: Like what was normal is now you look back on
25:03
Speaker 1: it and you're like, what the fuck was I thinking
25:05
Speaker 1: and doing? You know, it's it's I think the way
25:10
Speaker 1: that I think, primarily because I have a way of
25:15
Speaker 1: living and being and operating, and nothing in my head thinks, oh,
25:20
Speaker 1: like we're recording now at two thirty two, and you
25:23
Speaker 1: and the Crab and Chris and Odco and all these
25:27
Speaker 1: people that we know a meeting in fifty eight minutes
25:29
Speaker 1: to train at the gym, right, And I don't think, oh, geez,
25:33
Speaker 1: I'm good at sixty to go to the gym. What
25:35
Speaker 1: a fucking achievement for me? Just Chandy, look at me,
25:39
Speaker 1: at my age doing it like there's nothing in me
25:42
Speaker 1: that thinks it's a big deal or that it's an accomplishment.
25:45
Speaker 1: Because to me, it's cleaning my teeth. To me, it's
25:47
Speaker 1: putting on my socks. To me, it's getting out of bed.
25:50
Speaker 1: To me, it's fucking reading the newspaper. It's just a
25:53
Speaker 1: thing that I do. Right. But when your psychology is ah,
25:59
Speaker 1: and this is one of the other problems, is AH,
26:02
Speaker 1: I went for a walk. You know, I'm amazing. When
26:05
Speaker 1: you're telling yourself that you're amazing because you walked a
26:09
Speaker 1: kilometer or you ate a salad, it's going to be
26:11
Speaker 1: a fucking battle, you know. So we need to question
26:14
Speaker 1: one question all the self limiting bullshit and all the
26:18
Speaker 1: age based storytelling, self limiting fucking garbage that we tell
26:24
Speaker 1: ourselves and then go do. Now, the doing doesn't need
26:29
Speaker 1: to be joining a gym or becoming a crossfitter. The
26:31
Speaker 1: doing might be you might in your fifties or sixties
26:35
Speaker 1: going you know what, I'm going to go to university. Cool.
26:37
Speaker 1: I read an article the other day about a lady
26:40
Speaker 1: who went back. I think I spoke about this once recently,
26:45
Speaker 1: and she really trained as a nurse in her sixties
26:48
Speaker 1: and she just graduated. Now she's starting as an rin
26:52
Speaker 1: a registered nurse at seventy. She's seventy and she's just
26:56
Speaker 1: starting her nursing career and she looks like a fit, healthy,
27:01
Speaker 1: bright eyed fifty five year old, right, and she's fucking
27:04
Speaker 1: loving it. I'm like, so good for her now, apart
27:07
Speaker 1: from the good that she's going to do the world,
27:10
Speaker 1: because she's going to be so great with patients, right,
27:13
Speaker 1: because she's not you know, she's done a lot, she's
27:17
Speaker 1: seen the world, and clearly she's not driven by money
27:21
Speaker 1: or she would have done something because it's not like
27:24
Speaker 1: being a nurse's the high watermark for fucking income. Love
27:27
Speaker 1: you nurses, you know, Like, for me, what excites me
27:31
Speaker 1: is the benefit people are going to get from her,
27:33
Speaker 1: but also the benefit that she gets in not putting
27:36
Speaker 1: herself in some sign of kind of psychological or emotional
27:39
Speaker 1: box that says, oh this is inappropriate, or this is unlikely,
27:44
Speaker 1: or this is irresponsible, or this is reckless at your age?
27:47
Speaker 1: Like the problem. Yes, of course there is a reality
27:52
Speaker 1: of what the body and the brain can and can't do,
27:56
Speaker 1: but for most of us that is not the limitation.
28:00
Speaker 1: This is my point today, is like, what's the space
28:03
Speaker 1: between what your body can do and your story about
28:08
Speaker 1: what your body can do? You know, what's the reality
28:12
Speaker 1: of human potential? Your human potential? Take age off the table,
28:20
Speaker 1: rip the calendar off the wall, throw it in the bin,
28:23
Speaker 1: and just think about not what's possible at your age,
28:27
Speaker 1: but just what's possible for you. Imagine if imagine if
28:32
Speaker 1: we didn't record birth dates. Imagine if no one knew
28:35
Speaker 1: how anyone was. Imagine if you met a person and
28:38
Speaker 1: they didn't know if they were forty or sixty. Imagine
28:42
Speaker 1: if there was no record. You would just have to
28:45
Speaker 1: treat people based on who they are and how they are,
28:49
Speaker 1: because we couldn't judge them. But what we do is
28:52
Speaker 1: we like, for example, I did an interview the other
28:55
Speaker 1: day on ticket TV and there's no there's not a
28:59
Speaker 1: bad thing at all. I did it with Kate save
29:01
Speaker 1: right and Kate God bless Kate. She's great, and I
29:05
Speaker 1: understand why she did this, and I'm completely fine with it.
29:09
Speaker 1: But she put up a picture of me and her
29:11
Speaker 1: doing this thing, and she went, you know, Craig in
29:14
Speaker 1: great shape, bloody jacked and all this stuff into his sixties,
29:18
Speaker 1: right now, that's what we do. And I understand why
29:23
Speaker 1: she did that, not at all bothered by that, and
29:25
Speaker 1: it's kind of good pr and marketing. I get it.
29:27
Speaker 1: I would have done the same. But imagine if we
29:29
Speaker 1: lived in a world where we could only understand people
29:37
Speaker 1: or perceive and process and experience people just on how
29:41
Speaker 1: they show up. We didn't know anyone's age, because like
29:46
Speaker 1: it or not, all of us, including me. You know,
29:49
Speaker 1: if I know someone's eighty, I automatically will have even
29:52
Speaker 1: though I don't want to be judgmental, I'll all already
29:55
Speaker 1: have an expectation, I guess, right, And that's why so
29:59
Speaker 1: many peopleeople, I guess, are somewhat surprised of how functional
30:06
Speaker 1: and operational I am at a time when many people
30:09
Speaker 1: are really beginning to slide. And it's not because I'm
30:12
Speaker 1: genetically gifted or because I'm special, or better, because I'm
30:15
Speaker 1: not genetically gifted. I'm not special I'm not smarter, I'm
30:18
Speaker 1: not better. I just do things that create a certain outcome.
30:24
Speaker 1: But the other bit of the psychology of all of
30:26
Speaker 1: this is doing the things that create the outcome are uncomfortable,
30:31
Speaker 1: and as we've said one million times on this show,
30:33
Speaker 1: we don't like discomfort. So there's a certain acceptance that
30:37
Speaker 1: needs to happen with people if they want to optimize
30:42
Speaker 1: their genetic potential at any age, their health, their wellness,
30:46
Speaker 1: their performance, their nervous system, their endocrime system, their bone density,
30:50
Speaker 1: their muscular potential, their health span. There's a certain price
30:56
Speaker 1: that needs to be paid, and that is work and
30:58
Speaker 1: effort and courage.
31:00
Speaker 2: And you know that.
31:02
Speaker 1: Of course, a lot of people don't want to pay
31:04
Speaker 1: that price. And I get it, I get it.
31:08
Speaker 2: That's really that.
31:09
Speaker 3: That was really powerful what you said about not seeing
31:13
Speaker 3: people for age. And I think I myself fall into
31:18
Speaker 3: that a bit naturally, but as as a construct, I
31:21
Speaker 3: think that that is people should try that.
31:24
Speaker 2: Think about that.
31:26
Speaker 3: Even when someone mentions their age, I then it can shift,
31:29
Speaker 3: it can shift my I feel that shift. And that's
31:32
Speaker 3: not a conscious thing, that's not a deliberate idea. But yeah,
31:36
Speaker 3: we're driven by this stuff in our mind. That's so
31:39
Speaker 3: conditioned that we're not even aware of it, and it's dangerous.
31:42
Speaker 1: I was sitting with somebody the other day and not
31:47
Speaker 1: the other day, probably a couple of weeks ago, I
31:49
Speaker 1: from being honest and do I say this? Yere fuck it?
31:56
Speaker 1: But anyway, and they I pulled them up on and
31:59
Speaker 1: I do worse than this every day, right. But I
32:03
Speaker 1: was with this person and a lady walked into the
32:06
Speaker 1: Hamptons where we were having a chat. And this lady
32:12
Speaker 1: was wearing what the lady that I was talking to
32:16
Speaker 1: deemed to be inappropriate clothing for her age. And I'm like,
32:23
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, what's age appropriate clothing? And she goes
32:26
Speaker 1: not that and I'm like, how come? Like who can
32:30
Speaker 1: wear that? And then we had this whole philosophical discussion
32:34
Speaker 1: about okay, well what's the age? You know? And I said,
32:38
Speaker 1: what about what about Sonya Krueger? Have you seen Sonya Krueger?
32:42
Speaker 3: Yeah?
32:43
Speaker 1: I mean is she the most and I mean this
32:45
Speaker 1: with respect spectacular looking in terms of healthy, fit, vibrant.
32:50
Speaker 1: That lady is nearly sixty. Did you know that? No?
32:53
Speaker 2: I was about to say, how no, she's nearly sixty.
32:57
Speaker 1: I saw her the other night, I'm like, oh my god,
33:00
Speaker 1: how phenomenal. And I'm not talking about prettiness or Desira Bell.
33:06
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about she literally looks like a super fit,
33:10
Speaker 1: healthy forty year old, right, but she can wear whatever
33:14
Speaker 1: because she looks a certain way. But it's just, yeah,
33:19
Speaker 1: it's just that. And have I ever done that or
33:21
Speaker 1: a version of that? Of course I have. Am I
33:24
Speaker 1: embarrassed that I do? Yeah, of course, of course, But
33:26
Speaker 1: that whole kind of age just thinking, it's just something
33:32
Speaker 1: that I think we need to become because I think
33:34
Speaker 1: we all do it, myself included. I think I do
33:37
Speaker 1: it less now than I ever have done. But you know,
33:41
Speaker 1: I know because for me, I understand the potential negative
33:47
Speaker 1: consequences of negative thinking and negative storytelling around age that
33:55
Speaker 1: I think you know so much in our culture and
33:58
Speaker 1: all the medical shows, and we've got stuff at the
34:00
Speaker 1: moment with Chris Hemsworth which is called I Can Live
34:03
Speaker 1: Forever or something, and you know, the vast majority of
34:07
Speaker 1: everything that we talk about is really about the physiology
34:12
Speaker 1: and the biology, and we talk about food, and we
34:15
Speaker 1: talk about micros and macros and sleep and sets and
34:17
Speaker 1: reps and volume and heart rate and supplements and all
34:22
Speaker 1: of those things which are crucial. But the way that
34:26
Speaker 1: we think about aging and the way that we talk
34:29
Speaker 1: about aging and the stories that we have in our
34:32
Speaker 1: society about aging are a big part of the problem
34:36
Speaker 1: as well. But it pretty much goes, you know, unnoticed
34:41
Speaker 1: and unaddressed.
34:44
Speaker 3: So does this mean you're going to hop in the
34:46
Speaker 3: ocean and get uncomfortable with your almost sixty one year old,
34:51
Speaker 3: vibrant bod Now you're cold water swimming?
34:55
Speaker 1: Now, It's funny you mentioned that because you and I
34:57
Speaker 1: spoke here state because you did it. And when you
34:59
Speaker 1: do something horrible, because you're a shit friend and a
35:01
Speaker 1: great friend, you also want your friends to suffer with you.
35:05
Speaker 1: I know this to be true about you. You're like, fuck,
35:08
Speaker 1: I did it. It was horrible. Oh on harps to
35:10
Speaker 1: go through the same pain. So firstly, fuck you in
35:13
Speaker 1: your ocean swimming. Secondly, last night last hates. So I'm running,
35:20
Speaker 1: you know, I'm fucking around with running right And by
35:22
Speaker 1: the way, like I really started running again. I ran
35:27
Speaker 1: a lot when I was a kid. I've run bits
35:29
Speaker 1: and pieces through my adult journey. But I'm really starting
35:33
Speaker 1: to run again. Not long, not far, but and I'm
35:37
Speaker 1: amazed that how quickly m and remember sixty. My fitness
35:42
Speaker 1: has improved. I'll probably run fifteen times now. And what
35:47
Speaker 1: I'm doing is I was doing every day short. Now
35:49
Speaker 1: I'm doing a bit longer. Two or three k's still
35:51
Speaker 1: not long, but long enough. But I run like you know,
35:55
Speaker 1: I run like I stole something, right, I run out
36:01
Speaker 1: the side gate like a crazy person. So last night
36:04
Speaker 1: was my running night, and I kept waiting for the
36:07
Speaker 1: rain to I like running in the rain, but it
36:09
Speaker 1: was fucking sideways rain. It was three degrees. I don't
36:15
Speaker 1: know what it was, but it felt like felt like
36:16
Speaker 1: zero degrees. It was sideways rain. It was windy, and
36:21
Speaker 1: I thought, if I run outside, everything that I wear
36:24
Speaker 1: is just going to be one I'm going to get
36:26
Speaker 1: hype thermia, and two I'm going to I'm going to
36:28
Speaker 1: everything's going to get soaked. So I went fuck it.
36:32
Speaker 1: And I've got you know that skinny red singlet that
36:35
Speaker 1: I trained in periodically, that it's about forty two years old, right,
36:38
Speaker 1: It's about as big as a postage stamp, and it's
36:40
Speaker 1: held together with fucking gaffer tape. So I put that
36:44
Speaker 1: motherfucker on, which covers my left nipple. And you know,
36:47
Speaker 1: four hairs around my belly button, nothing else, right, So
36:50
Speaker 1: I put that on and I went running and I
36:54
Speaker 1: ran for three k's which was or maybe just done.
36:58
Speaker 1: I was out for about quarter of an hour. Right,
37:01
Speaker 1: it was fucking freezing. I mean it was so cold,
37:05
Speaker 1: and also because and I was thinking of you, I
37:08
Speaker 1: was thinking, this is my ocean swim and the wind
37:11
Speaker 1: on top of that, and I'm sure it wasn't as
37:14
Speaker 1: painful or as cold as your ocean swim, but that
37:17
Speaker 1: was my little moment. But I got home yesterday and
37:20
Speaker 1: you know, when you're so cold, as you were talking
37:22
Speaker 1: about with your ocean swim, I was freezing, freezing, freezing.
37:25
Speaker 1: And then I got in the house downstairs upstairs as
37:28
Speaker 1: warm downstairs, not so warm downstairs, and like my whole
37:32
Speaker 1: body was tingling. My hands were like they were on fire.
37:37
Speaker 1: My whole body was tingling. And the room, even though
37:40
Speaker 1: the room wasn't downstairs wasn't warm, it felt real warm.
37:45
Speaker 1: And then I came upstairs. It felt like I'd just
37:47
Speaker 1: gone to fucking Darwin.
37:49
Speaker 3: Right, it was.
37:50
Speaker 1: I'm like, it was so hot, But what I loved
37:56
Speaker 1: was my body loved it. Yeah, my body fucking loved it.
38:04
Speaker 1: And I passed a few people who are out with
38:07
Speaker 1: dogs and umbrellas and seven raincoats who looked at me like,
38:10
Speaker 1: where the fuck did you escape from? You old silly motherfucker,
38:15
Speaker 1: go home, right, And I just I kind of, I'm
38:21
Speaker 1: not even lying. I did pass three people and they
38:23
Speaker 1: looked at me like I was unhinged, which I don't,
38:29
Speaker 1: and I will say they did move way out of
38:31
Speaker 1: the way. Nobody wanted to get close to me.
38:36
Speaker 2: Some criminal running up the road with his laps.
38:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, runlike you stele something exactly anyway, So everyone be encouraged.
38:47
Speaker 1: Be encouraged. Don't limit yourself, don't be crazy or reckless.
38:50
Speaker 1: But at the same time, don't live in fear, don't
38:53
Speaker 1: live in self limitation. Don't build an emotional, psychological, behavioral
38:58
Speaker 1: prison for yourself. Don't rationalize what you're not doing because
39:02
Speaker 1: you're too old. Don't do anything crazy to start, but
39:06
Speaker 1: just open the door. You might be surprised. Just fucking
39:09
Speaker 1: get the metaphoric wheels turning. You might surprise a few people,
39:13
Speaker 1: and most importantly, you might surprise yourself. Tiffany and Cook,
39:16
Speaker 1: as always for a woman in her you know you're
39:21
Speaker 1: in your fifth decade now, don't Yeah, you're in your
39:24
Speaker 1: fifth decade. You've been here for a minute.
39:26
Speaker 2: Too, been hanging out, I've been hanging out.
39:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. Forty two next birthday Yeah. OMG, Thanks Tiff, Thanks Harps.