Latest / Come Back to Love: / Come Back To Love June 18 2026 Unhitched The Essential Divorce Guide for Women

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Come Back To Love June 18 2026 Unhitched The Essential Divorce Guide for Women · Come Back to Love:

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to come Back to Love with your host Robin Vogel.
0:05
Speaker 1: Each week at this same time, come Back to Love
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Speaker 1: covers an endless array of topics related to relationships, love
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Speaker 1: and intimacy, along with all the reasons you may be
0:15
Speaker 1: keeping love at a distance. Can a shattered heart be
0:18
Speaker 1: your doorway to your greatest love story? Robin will give
0:21
Speaker 1: you practical tools that can be used to heal the
0:23
Speaker 1: past and help you to safely love again. And now
0:27
Speaker 1: today's come Back to Love.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody. This is come Back to Love and I
0:34
Speaker 2: am here with dear colleague Unametz. I'm Robin Vogel, I'm
0:37
Speaker 2: the founder of come Back to Love, and I am
0:40
Speaker 2: so happy to be here talking about all the topics
0:42
Speaker 2: related to relationship, connection, communication, love and the things that
0:46
Speaker 2: get in the way. And my special guests always have
0:49
Speaker 2: just amazing things to contribute to this conversation that helps
0:52
Speaker 2: all of us heal our hearts and come back to
0:55
Speaker 2: love and contribute to the world in a really positive way.
0:58
Speaker 2: And we were just even talking right before we began
1:00
Speaker 2: about you know a little bit about the state of
1:02
Speaker 2: the world and how women are speaking about about it
1:04
Speaker 2: and how supportive that can be so a great tie
1:08
Speaker 2: in to you and your work as somebody who's been
1:11
Speaker 2: leading divorce support groups for many years. You can tell
1:13
Speaker 2: us how long, and that is how I know, my
1:17
Speaker 2: guest today. I've referred many many clients to your groups
1:21
Speaker 2: and your work because a lot of the people that
1:23
Speaker 2: come to see me have either going through divorce or
1:25
Speaker 2: thinking about divorce or make a decision to choose that
1:29
Speaker 2: as a direction, and your work has been so so
1:31
Speaker 2: supportive of them over like I said, many many years.
1:34
Speaker 2: So I'm really happy that you finally published your book.
1:37
Speaker 2: And I say finally because it's been a while. I
1:40
Speaker 2: know probably it's been brewing, brewing, brewing. You can tell
1:43
Speaker 2: us more about that, but I have it sitting right here,
1:46
Speaker 2: and I'm really I was so excited, honestly when I
1:49
Speaker 2: saw that you were publishing a book that, as you know,
1:51
Speaker 2: I came to one of your live book readings and
1:54
Speaker 2: have been sharing it. So I'm just going to show
1:56
Speaker 2: it right now or yes, the Essential Divorce Guide for Women.
2:00
Speaker 2: So what would you like to add to my introduction
2:02
Speaker 2: of you and your work.
2:04
Speaker 3: Well, first, I just want to say thank you so
2:06
Speaker 3: much for having me on and I have tremendous, tremendous
2:09
Speaker 3: respect for your work as well, and over the years
2:14
Speaker 3: our paths have crossed, and hopefully they'll cross some more
2:17
Speaker 3: in the coming months and years. So yeah, just to
2:21
Speaker 3: say that I have been a therapist for thirty years
2:23
Speaker 3: here right outside of Boston like you, and early on
2:27
Speaker 3: in my training, I was also trained in group therapy,
2:30
Speaker 3: and so I've always run groups.
2:32
Speaker 4: I started out running groups.
2:34
Speaker 3: For children, and then adolescents and then adults, and then
2:37
Speaker 3: about fifteen years ago, I started running these divorced support groups.
2:41
Speaker 3: And I have three weekly groups that have met pretty
2:44
Speaker 3: much every single week except when I'm on vacation for
2:47
Speaker 3: fifteen years. So I've literally seen hundreds of women through
2:50
Speaker 3: the process. And then I decided I had just too
2:55
Speaker 3: much information that was too important, kind of jangling around
2:58
Speaker 3: in my head, and I had to get it down
3:00
Speaker 3: on paper and share it with the rest of the world.
3:02
Speaker 4: So that's how that book was born.
3:05
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for saying that you must have had
3:08
Speaker 2: and have so much information, because that is quite a
3:10
Speaker 2: commitment to have those groups running so consistently. Like that's
3:15
Speaker 2: I hardly ever hear that, and you probably hardly ever
3:17
Speaker 2: did too, you know, people actually running something for six
3:19
Speaker 2: months or eight weeks or twelve weeks, you know.
3:22
Speaker 4: You till these are ongoing. Yeah, week after week after week.
3:24
Speaker 3: I mean even two of them are at the exact
3:26
Speaker 3: same time they were fifteen years ago. One of them
3:29
Speaker 3: was on a Friday, and I finally moved it to
3:30
Speaker 3: Wednesday a couple of years ago. But you know, there
3:33
Speaker 3: the other ones are even at the same time.
3:35
Speaker 5: Wow.
3:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, give us something three day weekend maybe, yeah. Yeah,
3:39
Speaker 2: So tell us, tell us what you've been seeing. Like,
3:42
Speaker 2: I feel like you've got this secret, you know, treasure
3:45
Speaker 2: trove of information that so few people have access to.
3:48
Speaker 2: I mean, even though I've been working with couples for
3:49
Speaker 2: so long, you know, I have not you know, haven't
3:53
Speaker 2: been focused on divorce per se. And you have seen
3:55
Speaker 2: and learned so much over the years. What would you say?
3:57
Speaker 2: Is what you say? I guess are some of the
3:59
Speaker 2: common themes that you see people coming in there struggling with.
4:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so good that we're talking about this because
4:06
Speaker 3: I think so often, and my groups are for women,
4:09
Speaker 3: so so often women feel so isolated, and they often
4:13
Speaker 3: come to me and say, how is possible that half
4:15
Speaker 3: of marriages and in divorce, and I don't know anyone
4:17
Speaker 3: going through one, you know, And so I think the
4:21
Speaker 3: groups are such an important way of being able to
4:23
Speaker 3: connect and for women to really talk about what the
4:27
Speaker 3: emotional journey of divorce.
4:30
Speaker 4: And I think one of the.
4:31
Speaker 3: Things that I'm seeing is just the way that there
4:35
Speaker 3: can be such nuance in divorce in terms of feelings,
4:38
Speaker 3: in a way that I think oftentimes other women who
4:41
Speaker 3: are going through it can really understand, and sometimes people
4:44
Speaker 3: who aren't going through it or haven't gone through it
4:46
Speaker 3: can't really understand. I just think there's such a huge
4:50
Speaker 3: number of feelings people feel as they're going through it,
4:53
Speaker 3: and sometimes those feelings might be seemingly two opposite feelings,
4:58
Speaker 3: and yet people might be feeling them at the same time.
5:00
Speaker 3: And so it's so useful to have a group of
5:02
Speaker 3: people where you can come in and say, like, I'm
5:04
Speaker 3: so angry right now at my ex and I also
5:08
Speaker 3: miss them, you know, to have that kind of complexity
5:13
Speaker 3: and have other people say like, yeah, I get it,
5:15
Speaker 3: I totally get that I was feeling that way too
5:17
Speaker 3: last week, or you know, I can relate. I can relate.
5:21
Speaker 3: So I think that's one thing I'm seeing. I'm also
5:23
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of evolution. You know, I think people
5:26
Speaker 3: you know, divorce is not static. You know, people start
5:30
Speaker 3: and it's heartbreaking and it's stressful and it's hard in
5:33
Speaker 3: the beginning and sometimes in the middle too. But then
5:37
Speaker 3: there's like an evolution that happens with so many people
5:40
Speaker 3: where there's an opportunity for some real growth and healing
5:44
Speaker 3: that comes. And it's hard to know that in the
5:46
Speaker 3: beginning stages, right, it's hard to feel like you can
5:48
Speaker 3: see anywhere outside of your own like really stressful corner, right,
5:53
Speaker 3: your heartbreaking corner. But then you know, eventually you can
5:55
Speaker 3: kind of turn around and see like, oh wait, there's
5:58
Speaker 3: there's life after divorce. There could even be joy or
6:02
Speaker 3: pleasure or meaning or purpose too. So I see a
6:06
Speaker 3: lot of that happening and a lot of empowerment. A
6:10
Speaker 3: lot of women who feel really disempowered. People often give
6:13
Speaker 3: the word small. They feel small in their marriages, and
6:17
Speaker 3: they get bigger and more stronger and more empowered through
6:21
Speaker 3: the process of divorce.
6:23
Speaker 4: Interesting.
6:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, two really rich topics, right. The first one brings
6:27
Speaker 2: me back to my own divorce, which was in two
6:29
Speaker 2: thousand and five and what it felt like. Yeah, and
6:33
Speaker 2: how so very painful and devastating. It was, even though
6:38
Speaker 2: it's what I wanted.
6:40
Speaker 4: Yep.
6:40
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe my pushing us in that direction or inviting
6:45
Speaker 2: us in that direction, weller, I knew we had grown
6:48
Speaker 2: really grown apart, because when we met, I wasn't myself yet.
6:51
Speaker 2: You know, when I start to become myself in my thirties,
6:54
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I mean even my ex husband would
6:57
Speaker 2: say sometimes like he didn't know who was going to
6:59
Speaker 2: walk in the door because I was growing so much
7:02
Speaker 2: and changing that he'd have, you know, a vision or
7:03
Speaker 2: expectation of course of who I am in the world
7:05
Speaker 2: and who I was, and I'd come in with something
7:07
Speaker 2: else and he would be sort of shocked and have
7:09
Speaker 2: to adjust. And so, you know, it felt like it
7:13
Speaker 2: was the right decision, and I you know, I think
7:15
Speaker 2: he would absolutely agree, but it was still.
7:17
Speaker 3: So heartbreakingh oh my, Yes, yes, absolutely. And I think
7:23
Speaker 3: sometimes people who haven't gone through a divorce don't understand that,
7:26
Speaker 3: right They think, if you initiate, well, oh well, this
7:28
Speaker 3: is something you wanted, so why would you be upset
7:30
Speaker 3: about it?
7:30
Speaker 4: But it's all I think it's always heartbreaking.
7:33
Speaker 3: Nobody ever gets married thinking someday I'm going to get
7:35
Speaker 3: divorced exactly right, exactly.
7:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely yeah. I always say it's like and I
7:41
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know if I always say this,
7:43
Speaker 2: but I'm starting I've been saying this a little bit
7:44
Speaker 2: and I'm still sort of feeling into what I mean
7:47
Speaker 2: by it, but I feel like divorce is the best
7:49
Speaker 2: and the worst decision, yes, I have ever made in
7:52
Speaker 2: my life.
7:53
Speaker 5: Yep.
7:53
Speaker 4: Yeah.
7:54
Speaker 3: And people we say all the time in the group,
7:56
Speaker 3: it's you know, it's the worst club with the best members.
8:00
Speaker 4: Oh god, yes.
8:02
Speaker 2: I love that.
8:04
Speaker 4: Yeah.
8:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, only I had known about support groups. If that's
8:07
Speaker 2: all right, you know, right right, go through it by myself.
8:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. It's interesting what you say.
8:13
Speaker 3: And I just want to like also say, for our
8:15
Speaker 3: whole conversation, as we talk about women and men, you know,
8:18
Speaker 3: obviously there's a greater gender spectrum than women and men.
8:23
Speaker 3: I primarily work with women, and anything I say is
8:27
Speaker 3: not like all women do this and all men do that,
8:29
Speaker 3: but there is And I'm going to say this that
8:34
Speaker 3: I have heard this saying, which I thought was really
8:36
Speaker 3: interesting about women get married, hoping men will change and
8:41
Speaker 3: men get married hoping women won't change.
8:43
Speaker 1: Oh.
8:44
Speaker 3: I was just thinking about that with your husband saying, wait,
8:46
Speaker 3: wait you're changing your changing?
8:47
Speaker 4: Yes you know, yes.
8:49
Speaker 2: Yes, you know that's interesting and I want I don't
8:51
Speaker 2: say this from a place of judgment either, but one
8:55
Speaker 2: of the things that he said to me was and
8:57
Speaker 2: he didn't mean it in a really harsh so it's
9:00
Speaker 2: going to sound that way and I want to take
9:01
Speaker 2: that out. But he said, like, you tricked me. Yeah, yeah,
9:06
Speaker 2: like oh, like, of course unintentionally. You know, I presented
9:11
Speaker 2: myself as I was when I was twenty four years old,
9:14
Speaker 2: you know.
9:14
Speaker 4: And when I was forty, Yeah, you were different.
9:17
Speaker 2: I was a completely different person with some personality traits.
9:20
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I get it.
9:23
Speaker 5: I get it.
9:23
Speaker 2: I get the feeling traits. I get the feeling you know,
9:26
Speaker 2: deceived I thought, and just what you said, Yeah, of
9:28
Speaker 2: course we can't say it's two for all, you know,
9:30
Speaker 2: gender gender, but you know, yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely a
9:34
Speaker 2: piece there.
9:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of I think it's really kind of
9:37
Speaker 3: crazy that we expect that people who get married when
9:40
Speaker 3: they're in their twenties are going to stay married until
9:44
Speaker 3: death do us part? Like that's such a unrealistic expectation,
9:49
Speaker 3: because I mean, people change, and especially when you're in
9:52
Speaker 3: your twenties, you're barely formed, I.
9:55
Speaker 2: Know, barely being our brains aren't even solidified, right, right.
10:00
Speaker 3: So to expect that you're going to say the same
10:02
Speaker 3: and yourself is going to say the same, or you're
10:03
Speaker 3: both going to change, but you're going to change it exactly,
10:06
Speaker 3: you know, some compliment, completely complimentary way, you know, over
10:09
Speaker 3: the next seventy years.
10:10
Speaker 4: It's yeah, kind of insane. Yeah, but there still is this.
10:14
Speaker 3: We still have this, you know, societal expectation that it's
10:18
Speaker 3: till death to us part rather than until it's not
10:21
Speaker 3: working anymore for one or both of us. Yeah, even
10:24
Speaker 3: though we've really tried, you know, it's not like, oh
10:26
Speaker 3: it's not working last week, so we're getting out of here.
10:29
Speaker 2: But right, right, exactly, I just made a new decision,
10:32
Speaker 2: you know, So yeah, right, of course. And I love
10:35
Speaker 2: that reframes. It's so much more real and human. Yeah,
10:40
Speaker 2: and what if it were. I just want to bring
10:43
Speaker 2: this because this is something somebody said to me a
10:45
Speaker 2: long time ago, before I was divorced. I was with
10:47
Speaker 2: a woman. My kids were at the Waallldorf School, and
10:49
Speaker 2: we were doing this sweet little like after school program,
10:52
Speaker 2: and this woman I just adore, so gentle and loving,
10:55
Speaker 2: and I think I was asking her about her husband,
10:57
Speaker 2: not really knowing what I was asking, and she said
10:59
Speaker 2: something about how she got divorced, and she used the
11:02
Speaker 2: word we had How did she say it? We had
11:05
Speaker 2: a It was like the counter to our marriage failed.
11:09
Speaker 2: You know, we had a very That's what she said.
11:10
Speaker 2: We had a very successful marriage for ten years.
11:13
Speaker 3: Oh.
11:13
Speaker 2: Nice, love that And it was the first time I
11:15
Speaker 2: had heard that, and I was like, whoa. I mean,
11:17
Speaker 2: I was still living under I was in my early thirties,
11:19
Speaker 2: under the if your marriage doesn't stay together, it's a
11:21
Speaker 2: failed marriage and your failure and everybody's failed at something horrible.
11:27
Speaker 3: You know.
11:27
Speaker 2: I just love what she said because she was honoring
11:30
Speaker 2: the time they had together, which he deserved. And now
11:33
Speaker 2: you know, it's complete and onto something else.
11:37
Speaker 5: Yeah.
11:37
Speaker 3: I love thinking about the way that language influences culture
11:40
Speaker 3: and the way that culture influences language. And I really
11:44
Speaker 3: want us all to be getting away from work.
11:46
Speaker 4: I think we're doing better.
11:48
Speaker 3: Like we don't say it's a broken family anymore, you know, hardly, yes,
11:52
Speaker 3: but I think some people still do say, like the
11:54
Speaker 3: marriage failed, and I would I think we should start
11:57
Speaker 3: saying that we restructured the family.
12:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a restructuring of a family. Yeah, really failure, right, Yeah,
12:05
Speaker 2: and I wonder how that. I'm also it's we don't
12:07
Speaker 2: know each other well enough to know this about each other.
12:09
Speaker 2: But I am also a fan of the way language
12:11
Speaker 2: impacts culture and culture impacts language, And yeah, I wonder
12:16
Speaker 2: how that would impact and influence the whole energy around it,
12:21
Speaker 2: and especially for the children. Yes, you know, yes, like
12:23
Speaker 2: if there's only that expectation that the parents are going
12:26
Speaker 2: to stay together as long as it's uplifting and supportive
12:28
Speaker 2: and healthy for everybody, and otherwise it energetically and emotionally,
12:32
Speaker 2: spiritually might feel like a completion, and then it's a
12:36
Speaker 2: restructuring because that's you know, what literally would need to happen,
12:39
Speaker 2: or literally what happens. I wonder how that would impact
12:43
Speaker 2: the children. Who knows? But the language certainly does impact yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:49
Speaker 3: There. We're also trying to get away from the word
12:51
Speaker 3: custody and start using parenting time or parenting plan more
12:56
Speaker 3: because I think custody it has its roots in slavery,
13:00
Speaker 3: and it implies ownership and we don't.
13:02
Speaker 4: Own our children.
13:03
Speaker 3: They're not objects to be owned, right, so we're to
13:07
Speaker 3: really we're talking about parenting time.
13:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Oh that would be so great.
13:11
Speaker 2: I think you did something political recently. Do you want
13:14
Speaker 2: to talk about that? I caught what? Oh no, maybe
13:17
Speaker 2: you didn't. You just spoke about something political, kind of
13:21
Speaker 2: like you just did you know, Like, what would it
13:23
Speaker 2: take to bring that into the courts to read oh, yes,
13:27
Speaker 2: to redo the language, to have the custody language taken out, Yes,
13:30
Speaker 2: parenting time taken in. I mean yeah, there's in roads
13:34
Speaker 2: there that could be made.
13:35
Speaker 4: Yeah.
13:36
Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful. So what is your favorite part of the book?
13:42
Speaker 4: Oh?
13:42
Speaker 3: Wow, I know nobody's asked me about. Yeah, that's a
13:45
Speaker 3: great question. What's my favorite part?
13:51
Speaker 2: Let's show it again while you're thinking. Okay, here it
13:54
Speaker 2: is available on Amazon and all other other yes.
13:57
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, all other independent bookstores, or signed copies at
14:01
Speaker 3: Belma Books and Brookline Books with right now so people
14:04
Speaker 3: can go.
14:04
Speaker 2: There from Boston. Yep, you can go the yes, yes,
14:07
Speaker 2: I love yeah, go ahead, you tell me.
14:10
Speaker 3: I think what I really what I really like about
14:13
Speaker 3: the book, and what I really tried to do was
14:15
Speaker 3: to make the book readable because I know that women
14:18
Speaker 3: going through divorce have a hard time reading dense text,
14:21
Speaker 3: and I know that whenever stress goes up, cognition goes down,
14:25
Speaker 3: and so I was so I worked really hard. I
14:28
Speaker 3: had a wonderful writing coach, and we worked really hard
14:31
Speaker 3: together to really think about how to structure the book
14:34
Speaker 3: in such a way that it's kind of easier to read.
14:37
Speaker 3: Chunks of material interspersed with stories so that people don't
14:41
Speaker 3: feel alone, and then exercises so people can feel like
14:44
Speaker 3: they're really doing their own kind of learning and growth work.
14:48
Speaker 3: So I think that's what I like, is the variety
14:50
Speaker 3: and just the thoughtfulness that went into what it's like
14:53
Speaker 3: to try to read a book when you don't have
14:55
Speaker 3: much attention span left.
14:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's so validating, Glad you just said that,
15:00
Speaker 2: because of course, when we're under stress, we know what happens,
15:03
Speaker 2: you know, right right, Still, cortex is not on board
15:05
Speaker 2: as much and we can think straight, so we pick
15:08
Speaker 2: up and read a book is really challenging.
15:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, my goodness.
15:12
Speaker 2: I think I hope that gives so many of our
15:13
Speaker 2: listeners like validation and permission. Yes, yes, go that pressure
15:18
Speaker 2: of like you know, and self judgment, but I agree.
15:21
Speaker 3: And also it's it's recorded, so people could do an
15:23
Speaker 3: audiobook too if you feel like I mean, everybody has
15:26
Speaker 3: a different learning style and some people just prefer to listen,
15:29
Speaker 3: but at times like this it might be easier to
15:31
Speaker 3: listen to, or it might be a safety issue.
15:34
Speaker 4: People might not want to have it on their nightstand.
15:37
Speaker 2: Well that's true, yeah, yes, absolutely, because are you finding
15:40
Speaker 2: people are buying it before they initiate divorce, right because
15:43
Speaker 2: they're getting support, so they're hiding it somewhere.
15:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.
15:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if they have a joint audible account, then
15:49
Speaker 2: that doesn't either, right, Yeah, depending on what kind of
15:53
Speaker 2: situation they're in. If they're in a situation that might
15:55
Speaker 2: not be safe, like legitimately not safe, then they don't
15:58
Speaker 2: want to have a book right out. And hopefully the
16:01
Speaker 2: libraries are carrying it so people can go get the library.
16:04
Speaker 2: That's yeah. One of the things I really like about it,
16:07
Speaker 2: and I've been reading through different sections of it. You
16:10
Speaker 2: mentioned exercises, and I love that, like there's places where
16:12
Speaker 2: I can take my pen and like write identifying my feelings.
16:16
Speaker 2: And I do actually really like this section on feelings because,
16:20
Speaker 2: as you said, there can be opposing feelings and there
16:24
Speaker 2: often are posing feelings and you know, the world of ifs,
16:27
Speaker 2: we know there are parts that are so often polarized
16:30
Speaker 2: and having completely different feelings and agenda items, you know,
16:35
Speaker 2: and desires, and that is so confusing. Yeah, to be
16:39
Speaker 2: able to really sort it out is so helpful.
16:44
Speaker 5: Yeah.
16:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, I mean, I don't know. I
16:49
Speaker 2: have my own divorce. I work with people that stay
16:51
Speaker 2: together and sometimes get divorced. I know there are books
16:55
Speaker 2: out there, and maybe I have a little bias, but
16:58
Speaker 2: I feel like there's nothing out there like your book.
17:00
Speaker 4: Well that's why I wrote it.
17:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, That's why I had to, because I was like,
17:03
Speaker 3: this book doesn't exist, right, It isn't a book by
17:06
Speaker 3: a therapist for women about the emotional journey of divorce.
17:10
Speaker 4: Like that's crazy.
17:10
Speaker 2: It is crazy. I feel like everybody it's like a
17:13
Speaker 2: It's like I want to hug it and hold time
17:16
Speaker 2: and I'm not getting divorced right now. But that's the
17:18
Speaker 2: energy of the book. It's like it feels like a
17:20
Speaker 2: really nice comforting support and guidance that is so desperately
17:27
Speaker 2: needed in that moment of you know, not knowing what
17:30
Speaker 2: to do or going through the stress, you know, just
17:33
Speaker 2: the whole thing, and wow, like what antle gift?
17:37
Speaker 4: Right right?
17:37
Speaker 1: Yeah?
17:37
Speaker 5: Right.
17:38
Speaker 3: It's funny because I wrote it specifically for women who
17:41
Speaker 3: were thinking about divorce or going through or had been divorced.
17:43
Speaker 3: And but there have been other people who have said, like,
17:46
Speaker 3: I hired this wonderful young man who to help me
17:49
Speaker 3: with my social media a while back, and he consulted
17:53
Speaker 3: to me, and he was like twenty nine years old
17:55
Speaker 3: or something, this like little straight boy with a with
17:57
Speaker 3: a girlfriend. And so he was like, you know, I
18:00
Speaker 3: going to help you with social media. I need to
18:01
Speaker 3: read your book. So I gave him the book and
18:02
Speaker 3: he was like, oh, this is really helpful. I learned
18:05
Speaker 3: a lot from this book. And I was like, oh,
18:07
Speaker 3: that's so nice, Like yeah, a little twenty nine year
18:11
Speaker 3: old man, yeah, you know, not yet married.
18:13
Speaker 4: But he was like, I feel like I really learned
18:15
Speaker 4: a lot. I was like, great, good, I can.
18:17
Speaker 2: Totally understand that. I imagine he learned about his feelings,
18:20
Speaker 2: about identifying feelings, about sharing the nuance of feelings, and
18:23
Speaker 2: other things too. But about relating, yes, you know that
18:26
Speaker 2: he's able to don't apply to his.
18:28
Speaker 4: Relationship, right right right?
18:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because there are things in there that are
18:33
Speaker 3: you know, that are could be divorced specific but don't
18:35
Speaker 3: have to be about feelings, about boundaries, about supporting your kids,
18:38
Speaker 3: about you know, lots of things identity.
18:41
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm glad you brought up kids.
18:44
Speaker 2: I'm curious if we could spend a little bit of
18:45
Speaker 2: time talking about It's always such a dilemma. I've worked
18:50
Speaker 2: with so many parents who want to separate and don't
18:52
Speaker 2: know how to manage it with their kids and when
18:54
Speaker 2: to tell them, how to tell them in different ages
18:56
Speaker 2: of the kids, and how to deal with that. And
18:59
Speaker 2: I wonder you had one couple that age range was
19:01
Speaker 2: like eighteen to eight, so it was like, oh, what
19:03
Speaker 2: you're going to tell your eighteen year old is completely
19:05
Speaker 2: different than what you're going to tell your eight year old,
19:07
Speaker 2: and even the timing right, right, timing, yes, with that
19:11
Speaker 2: age gap. So I'm curious, like, share your on this
19:14
Speaker 2: piece really.
19:14
Speaker 4: Oh yes, yeah, yeah.
19:17
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think sometimes people forget because
19:22
Speaker 3: divorce is so laiden with emotions. I think sometimes people
19:25
Speaker 3: forget that they have been parents already for a long time,
19:30
Speaker 3: and that they've helped their kids through transition after transition,
19:33
Speaker 3: after transition, right, So divorce is another transition. It's as
19:37
Speaker 3: we say, it's a restructuring of a family. And so
19:39
Speaker 3: I really want them to call upon and remember the
19:42
Speaker 3: strengths that and the foundation of kind of love and
19:45
Speaker 3: support that they have with their kids and how they
19:47
Speaker 3: help their kids through all you know, body training, you know,
19:51
Speaker 3: breastfeeding not breastfeeding, pody training, you know, kindergarten, all of
19:54
Speaker 3: those things, right, And then I give you know, I
19:57
Speaker 3: give some sample scripts in the book about exactly what
20:01
Speaker 3: to say, but I think really to also remind people
20:05
Speaker 3: that the first conversation when you tell your kids is
20:09
Speaker 3: not the last. Better not me, right, It's just the
20:11
Speaker 3: first of many. And you're going to have many conversations
20:14
Speaker 3: with your kids over many years at different developmental levels.
20:17
Speaker 3: And so really to keep that first conversation pretty sure
20:21
Speaker 3: that you're just giving the basic information. And then a
20:24
Speaker 3: couple of things you're saying about like I really I
20:28
Speaker 3: know you're going to have feelings about this. I really
20:30
Speaker 3: want to hear about all your feelings about it. You know,
20:32
Speaker 3: you can come to us at any time. Here's what's
20:34
Speaker 3: going to change in your life, Here's what's not going
20:37
Speaker 3: to change. I really caution people about promising things because
20:41
Speaker 3: they feel guilty or because that thing is true in
20:44
Speaker 3: the moment, like saying we're going to always celebrate holidays together.
20:47
Speaker 3: Please don't say that. Even if you know you're going
20:51
Speaker 3: to celebrate this holiday together, that might be true, but
20:54
Speaker 3: you don't know what's going to happen in the future.
20:56
Speaker 4: That's right now, that's right.
20:57
Speaker 3: So and reminding kids that it's not their fault. The
21:00
Speaker 3: thing that's that is never going to change is your
21:02
Speaker 3: love for them.
21:04
Speaker 2: Do you think that you know so take that in
21:06
Speaker 2: or do you have any experience with that. Do you
21:08
Speaker 2: feel like kids still think it's somewhat their faults or
21:12
Speaker 2: do you think they.
21:13
Speaker 3: Think it depends I think it depends on the kids,
21:15
Speaker 3: and it depends on how much kind of conflict they've
21:19
Speaker 3: been exposed to, and especially how much conflict they've been
21:21
Speaker 3: exposed to that has to do with parenting, because sometimes
21:24
Speaker 3: there's a lot of conflict about parenting, and sometimes there's
21:27
Speaker 3: a lot of conflict that's about totally other things. And
21:30
Speaker 3: so I think if there's a lot of conflict about
21:32
Speaker 3: parenting and the kids are exposed to that, then they
21:35
Speaker 3: can begin to think it's them even though even though
21:38
Speaker 3: we know it's not right right right, it's the adult's
21:42
Speaker 3: responsibility to manage their conflict.
21:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so important. I mean, some of the kids
21:48
Speaker 2: are so young, Like this family I talked about in
21:50
Speaker 2: my kids, we're really young, and it's so hard to share.
21:54
Speaker 2: Like you said, just a few words, what's going to change,
21:57
Speaker 2: what's not going to change? You know. We also we
21:59
Speaker 2: kept it really short. It was probably the worst conversation
22:02
Speaker 2: I've ever had to have in my.
22:03
Speaker 4: Life, absolutely, yep, and most painful.
22:06
Speaker 2: Most painful, and just so much confusion about what that
22:11
Speaker 2: actually means. I mean for young kids, you know, under
22:14
Speaker 2: you know, teenage years especially, like it doesn't even really compute,
22:18
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, wow, what what is what?
22:20
Speaker 5: You know?
22:21
Speaker 2: Right right right? So until they're kind of in the
22:23
Speaker 2: rhythm of whatever it is, the parents decide and even then.
22:25
Speaker 2: But yeah, but I really appreciate what you said about
22:28
Speaker 2: having keeping it short. It's and also continuing to have
22:32
Speaker 2: the conversation, like yes, continuing to have the conversation for
22:35
Speaker 2: however long into their adult years. You know, I still
22:37
Speaker 2: have conversations now with my almost thirty year old. Yeah,
22:40
Speaker 2: because there's still things to talk about. And there's things
22:42
Speaker 2: that I would never have said to a teenager that
22:45
Speaker 2: I can site now to adult an adult. Yes, yes,
22:49
Speaker 2: and that's that's huge. I mean, yeah, that's yeah. And
22:53
Speaker 2: there's a lot of relief. I've been a lot of
22:54
Speaker 2: relief in that for me also because able to kind
22:57
Speaker 2: of talk about it in more adult way.
23:00
Speaker 4: More nuanced.
23:00
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I share things you never have shared that
23:03
Speaker 2: kind of thing. Yeah, right, right, right, Yeah, what a's
23:06
Speaker 2: topic you have devoted your life to.
23:08
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
23:10
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful. I'm so so grateful that you're doing
23:12
Speaker 2: this work. I'm so always so happy when I'm referring
23:14
Speaker 2: somebody to your groups because I know they're going to
23:16
Speaker 2: get amazing support.
23:17
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah, there's such a pleasure
23:20
Speaker 4: to run.
23:20
Speaker 3: It's just so nice to see how much change people
23:23
Speaker 3: can make and how much connection people have with each other.
23:26
Speaker 3: And you know, I in the groups, I do ask
23:30
Speaker 3: the people not have outside relationships with each other while
23:33
Speaker 3: they're a member of the group, but when they leave
23:35
Speaker 3: the group, I suggest to them that they are welcome
23:38
Speaker 3: to stay in touch with other group members, and they
23:40
Speaker 3: oftentimes make lifelong friendships out of that group, Like they
23:44
Speaker 3: don't you know, text me or call me, you know,
23:47
Speaker 3: years later with the picture all of you all got together,
23:49
Speaker 3: and you know, it's so wonderful to see that.
23:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to say yes, like I would have
23:55
Speaker 2: loved that experience.
23:57
Speaker 4: Personally, right, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:02
Speaker 2: Honestly, my friends that were married, I mean they just
24:04
Speaker 2: had really no clue a lot of time they were
24:05
Speaker 2: doing their best to try to support me.
24:07
Speaker 3: But right, right, right, Yeah, it's like it's like the
24:10
Speaker 3: new moms groups. You know, I'm still friends with people
24:13
Speaker 3: from the new my new mom group that happened twenty
24:16
Speaker 3: years ago. Yeah, yeah, exactly, right, right, because that's a
24:20
Speaker 3: unique experience and people who aren't new moms don't get it, right,
24:24
Speaker 3: that's right, exactly.
24:25
Speaker 4: Yeah.
24:26
Speaker 2: Well, why don't you share with our listeners where they
24:28
Speaker 2: can find you and how to can I help you
24:31
Speaker 2: and if you're offering anything for other than your groups
24:34
Speaker 2: or you know, what would people want?
24:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, great.
24:37
Speaker 3: So the best way to contact me is through my website.
24:40
Speaker 3: It's UNA mets dot com O O N A N
24:42
Speaker 3: E t Z dot com and I have a lot
24:45
Speaker 3: of free resources on my website. There's a lot of
24:47
Speaker 3: podcasts there and articles and legal and financial resources as
24:51
Speaker 3: well as emotional resources too, So you can feel free
24:55
Speaker 3: to hang out on my website as long as you
24:57
Speaker 3: need to or want to. We do have have some
25:00
Speaker 3: events coming up. I'm not sure when this YouTube will
25:03
Speaker 3: be posted, but on February eleventh, I'll be at City
25:06
Speaker 3: Space with Scoatchey cool And who wrote Sucker Punch, and
25:11
Speaker 3: Nicole Grave Lipson who wrote Mothers and other characters, and
25:14
Speaker 3: Tciana Dearing who we love, and then let's see, I'll
25:19
Speaker 3: be in North Caro Durham, North Carolina next Friday night
25:22
Speaker 3: for an anti Valentine's Day event and then yeah, and
25:28
Speaker 3: then we'll be talking about the book some more on
25:30
Speaker 3: February twenty fourth through Fresh Start Registry and that's a
25:34
Speaker 3: free zoom event at eight pm. All these events are
25:37
Speaker 3: on my website, so people, if you want more, you
25:39
Speaker 3: can check it out. And there's events for therapists and
25:41
Speaker 3: events for regular people too.
25:46
Speaker 2: Good.
25:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, thank you so much.
25:51
Speaker 2: So to find you at unametts dot com and you
25:55
Speaker 2: can find the book on pitched.
25:57
Speaker 4: I have one more thing to say too.
25:59
Speaker 3: I also to just tell people that I also have
26:02
Speaker 3: developed a training program to teach people how to lead
26:05
Speaker 3: these groups. It's called the Beacon Group Fellowship. I got
26:08
Speaker 3: to the point where I had sixty people on a
26:10
Speaker 3: waiting list to get into my groups, and so I
26:12
Speaker 3: really needed to train some more therapists so that there
26:15
Speaker 3: are more options for people in my waitlist would be managed.
26:20
Speaker 3: So it's a weekend long training and then a weekly
26:23
Speaker 3: in person weekend training and then.
26:25
Speaker 4: On zoom the supervision after that. So that's all. All
26:29
Speaker 4: that information is also on my website.
26:30
Speaker 2: Oh that's beautiful. I'm really glad you added that. Yeah yeah, oh,
26:33
Speaker 2: thank god, thank god. Wow, sixty people on your waitlist?
26:36
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, so people come off the waitlist, so
26:40
Speaker 3: don't don't be sorry about it.
26:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it truly is amazing that with such
26:44
Speaker 2: a prevalent topic that your work is so unique here
26:49
Speaker 2: in Boston. And like I said, the book that you
26:52
Speaker 2: know hasn't been written before. I mean, it's really incredible.
26:55
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, it's all I can't see the
26:57
Speaker 2: forest of the trees or something like. It's one of
26:59
Speaker 2: those people we think is everywhere, but it's not right.
27:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:03
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here.
27:06
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you.
27:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome. I'm so happy to have this time
27:09
Speaker 2: with you and share about this really important topic so
27:12
Speaker 2: near and dear to my heart, that people get support
27:14
Speaker 2: when they're going through something so traumatic. And I'm just
27:18
Speaker 2: so grateful that you're doing well. Thank you, Yeah, thank you.
27:21
Speaker 2: So just shout out and love to our listeners and
27:24
Speaker 2: we'll see you again soon and wishing everybody a beautiful day.
27:29
Speaker 5: Hi, this is Robin Vogel, host of come Back to Love.
27:32
Speaker 5: If you are ready to heal the past and open
27:34
Speaker 5: your heart to love again, I want to talk with you.
27:36
Speaker 5: Book a free thirty minute private conversation with me at
27:39
Speaker 5: comebacktolove dot com. I'll meet you where you are and
27:42
Speaker 5: give you real tools you can use right now. Because
27:45
Speaker 5: love isn't just possible for you, it's waiting for you.
27:48
Speaker 5: Go to Comeback to Love dot com and book your
27:51
Speaker 5: free thirty minutes today and listen.
28:00
Speaker 1: Need to come Back to Love with Robin Vogel a
28:03
Speaker 1: transformative program that covers an endless array of topics related
28:06
Speaker 1: to relationships, love and intimacy, along with all the reasons
28:10
Speaker 1: you may be keeping love at a distance. Tune in
28:13
Speaker 1: each week as Robin gives you practical tools that can
28:15
Speaker 1: be used to heal the past and help you to
28:18
Speaker 1: safely love again. Join Robin again next week at the
28:21
Speaker 1: same time for come Back to Love.