Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 250 ~ Landis & Ulis - Re-Evaluating The Shot Sequence

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Ep. 250 ~ Landis & Ulis - Re-Evaluating The Shot Sequence · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:06
You remember, like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, they actually devoted their show
0:13
what was it called the lines of the lines of Funch of Party? What
0:16
right show? Yeah? What an embarrassment. I mean, everything is going
0:26
to hail down here, inductors, don't who would take that back? Don't
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don't go, don't go yet? Stars. Oh sorry, sorry, I
1:30
was grooving to the music as I am so one to do the things.
1:38
I love it so much. I love it, I love it. Thank
1:42
you again, Roger and Shepherd and fire from the tunes. What's up to
1:47
everybody? This is your boy a big bad to Bobbie And this is the
1:53
Lone Thegoming Podcast. And this is Milestone episode number two hundred and fifth.
2:00
That's a quarter of a thousand, Wow, and only took almost ten years
2:06
to get here. Let's see if my math thing is mathing correctly. Let's
2:15
see thirty more years. I'll be eighty years old if I get to a
2:20
thousand episodes. Yeah, I don't know if that's gonna happen. So enjoy
2:24
enjoy them. Why you can't, folks, enjoy them? Why you can't?
2:30
All right, So on this episode we are going to get into the
2:36
claims of Paul landis, former Secret Service agent and protector of Jackie Kennedy,
2:44
much like Clint Hill was. That's who he was assigned to protect. We're
2:52
also going to be taking a look at the claims of author Eric Eulis.
2:58
He is a somewhat swing swinging Dick researcher into the dB Cooper Mystery, among
3:09
other things. He's been featured on Netflix and the History Channel. Very prominent
3:15
guy, but he's got some very controversial views on m kennedy assassination, shall
3:21
we say? But I promise we will get there eventually. But first we're
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gonna hear a word from our delicious, succulent, spicy, sweet, savory
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won't regret it. Thank me later, Peace, Thank you Bob, Thank
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you Bob. Yes, you two can help support the show by ordering some
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hot sauce, making your belly happy and making your boy the Triple be happy
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as well. Also make sure you're paying attention to the YouTube channel the Lone
5:40
Domain podcast. This is just a friendly heads up A. This is not
5:47
a spoiler alert. Spoiler alert ah. This is serious business. So changes
6:00
coming to the show in the very near future just for you, bigger,
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better, badder than ever. So make sure you are subscribed and you are
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hitting the bill and getting notified when things happen on the Onegoming podcast YouTube channel.
6:20
Trust me, you'll want to be paying attention. Also again, Lancer
6:30
Conference coming up. Let's see November seventeenth through the nineteenth this year to Lorenzo
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Hotel in Dallas, Texas. If you can't be there in person, you
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can check it out on Assassination Conference dot Com virtually into register, visit JFK
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Lancer Publications registration details and tip it hip it ticket options. Yes, there's
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only one tippe. There are no options on tippet. Again. I listened
7:11
to some of the speakers before, I'll listen more. Now you're looking at
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Larry Hancock, Jim Gook, now, Greg Doudna, Andrew Keiel, Johnny
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Cairns, Jeff Meek, Brenton Holland, Mike Swanson, Jannett Grodin, David
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Boylan, Bill Simpics, Alan Dale, and other other notables. Okay,
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so make sure you're paying attention some of the stuff that's going to be covered,
7:42
of course, as prayer Man twelve Persons of Interest, lost or missing
7:46
evidence and destroyed leads. There's gonna be a Walker shooting panel, Lansdale mong
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Goose, Lemnitzer, Northwood's connection to the assassination and how it may have informed
7:59
Lemna. There's future work. We're missing Church Committee testimony, the Martins,
8:05
I wonder who's doing now, destroyed evidence, and Redbird Airport leads. Okay,
8:13
so make sure you sign up, go purchase tickets at JFK Lanser Publications
8:18
dot com today. People, I'll wait till the last minute. Do not
8:24
wait until the last minute, all right. So before we get into the
8:31
show, I just wanted to thank all of you listeners out there and supporters
8:39
of the show for your dedication and your your your words of encouragement throughout the
8:48
years. Like I said, this is a big milestone show. This is
8:52
episode number two hundred and fifty of the Lonegoming podcast. Together with quick hits
8:56
that I do with my buddy Doug Campbell, I've done only three hundred podcasts
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about the DFK assassination in the past about and a half years. That's crazy
9:07
to me. That's crazy, and we're still just scratching the surface of things
9:13
that we can talk about. It's amazing to me that there is so much
9:18
information out there. It's it's crazy. And I wanted to share a personal
9:22
story with you before we get into the show, because don't normally often share
9:30
personal information because of course it's all goes out on the internet, folks,
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okay, And I don't want my personal privacy or my family to be bothered
9:39
in any way about anything that I say on this show. Were harassed because
9:45
some people who listen to the show, they listen because they hate me.
9:52
They hate what I have to say. They totally disagree with me, and
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you know, some people are just so I'm very hesitant to put out on
10:03
my personal business online, but I will say this, I've been fortunate enough
10:09
to work for a family owned small business for the past let's see twenty two
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years for that. I had jobs mostly in you know, for big corporations,
10:28
you know, where you're just a face, you're just a number,
10:31
you're just a name, and you're you know, you don't mean much to
10:37
them. You're expendable, you're replaceable. They don't really care. They say
10:43
they do, but they really don't. And like I said, I've had
10:50
the opportunity to work for a family owned small business, and I wouldn't trade
10:56
the experience for anything. I love where I am, and I love the
11:01
business, and I love the people that owned the business, and they treat
11:07
their employees very fairly, and they do care. They don't just say it,
11:11
they show you that they care. And I got a very well let
11:20
me preface it by saying this. So I was taking basically a management class
11:31
given to us by the owner of the company, the president of the company,
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and you know, basically outline the kind of management strategy that they that
11:39
they like to employ here. And it was a very informative class, very
11:46
well taught, very well led. And before one of the meetings, we
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normally have you know, like an ice breaker type of thing, and they
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asked everyone. They passed out, you know, little slips of paper and
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they asked everyone to write on there something about you that not too many people
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know about. Okay, so, you know, I'm looking around the table.
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There's like ten of us in the room. You know, I'm like,
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okay, well, what the hell, So I'm gonna write it down
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on here. I do a podcast. And I folded a piece of paper
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up and a threw it in the hat, and I think it was second
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or third when the pop out of there, right, So everybody's looking around
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the table and everybody else and saying, who do you think it is?
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Who do you think it was? Who do you think it is? Well,
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nobody got it right, nobody picked me, so I must be hiding
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it really well they were, so of course the question came up, well
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what is your podcast about? Okay? Well, then here's where my uh
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self awareness is turned up to the maximum. So you know, you say,
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okay, if I say this, am I gonna seem weird for caring
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about this so much? You know? So I tell him, well,
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I do a podcast all about the JFK assassination. And everybody's like, oh,
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you know, okay, all right, well, very very interested,
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very supported. You know, the owner of the company, the president of
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the company. You know, we're asking for links, how to listen,
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this and that, and you know, I'm mortified, not really, I
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know, I understand, but it's just, you know, I do say
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some things on this show that I would probably turn red, you know,
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in front of them, if if I said it in front of them.
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But I'm sure they understand that it is all, you know, part of
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the show. The show is informative, it shows entertaining, the show is
14:13
engaging. So I tell you all that to tell you this. So,
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you know, a couple of days ago, I get a phone call and
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it wasn't in my office at the time, but I got the voicemail and
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it's from the owner of the company. And he's a very big political guy,
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very up on you know, topical news and trends and all that.
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Very very very smart man. I respect him a lot and his advice.
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And he tells me he came across his news feed about the Paul Landis story.
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Okay, Now, the owner of this company is Is. Let's just
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say he's in his seventies, so he was alive during the time of the
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JFK assassination and he remembers it, of course, and he was probably in
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high school about the time the JFK was assassinated. So the topic is interesting
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to him as well because he's never believed the official story either. So,
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you know, as he told me, and he was excited to relay this
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this information to me, and I appreciated him forwarding it to me. And
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that's what we're gonna be talking a little bit about today, is the Paul
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Landis revelations, because you know, it's a big deal. If true,
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it changes everything. Okay, so let's start off the show and figure out
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and signed out what exactly Paul Landis said recently and what he is implying.
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And this is just a small, like five minute news clips of bear with
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me and I will be right back on the other side of this. Let's
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bring an author James Robinalt, who penned a Vanity Fair article spoke with Landis.
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Thank you so much for being with us. I had a chance to
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read your article. How significant is this new account if it is in fact
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true, Well, it is the biggest news since nineteen sixty four when the
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Warren Commission issued its report. This is brand new information. It was never
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shared until now. And Paul Landis, who's the secret service agent we're talking
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about. Jackie Kennedy's secret service agent was there that day. He was in
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the following car called Halfback, and he saw that the President's had explode.
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You can see him in the film and in all the photographs in the car
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right behind the limbusine. They then sped to Parkland Hospital with the President mortally
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wounded. And when they got there, Paul jumped out of half back and
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with fellow agent Clint Hill, tried to get Missus Kennedy to let go of
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the President, who she cradled in her lap. She would not do so
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for quite a while. Finally Clint took his coat off and put it over
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the President's head and she agreed to get up. When she stood up,
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he saw two bullet fragments on the actual seat itself and then up on the
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ledge right behind where Kennedy's back would have hit the ledge when he was hit
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with the final shot. Was this intact Christine bullet that he picked up and
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took with him into the hospital. Once he was in the hospital, he
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left it on Kennedy's stretcher. He and Missus Kennedy were in Trauma Room one
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for about a minute and he left it on the stretcher, and knowing Kennedy
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was mortally wounded and dead and wanted the bullet to be with his body at
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the time of the autopsy. So it's hugely significant because it completely undercuts the
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Warren Commission single bullet theory. It truly does. James, I mean,
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at the heart of this account, this largely intact bullet that how did it
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wind up on the ledge of that back seat. Yeah. I mean,
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as I wrote in Vanity Fair, we're never going to know for sure,
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but what seems to have happened is Kenny was shot right back here in his
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upper shoulder, not in his neck as the Warren Commission said, but upper
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shoulder. And it appears the bullet was undercharged, which happened with these World
18:34
War two vintage bullets that were being used, so it was sticking out of
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his back. The final shot pushes him back violently against the chair that he's
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sitting in the back seat, and it either dislodged at that point on its
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own, or you can see in this film you're showing there's a bruder film.
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Missus Kennedy has her arms around him and literally brushes the area where that
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bullet would have been sticking out, and it may have gotten put into her
19:04
clothing, because as you know, she then turned and tried to grab a
19:08
piece of his skull that had been blasted onto the back of the car,
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and she stretches way out over before Clint Hill saves her and puts her back
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in right where she stretched over. If it was in her clothing, is
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where Paul found the bullet. So one of those two ways, I think
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is how it got there. I mean, James, this is so fascinating
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all of these decades later, you know, Americans, you know, people
19:32
around the world I think are so fascinating about this. But let's talk about
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motivation. Why do you think Paul Landis is choosing to come forward at this
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point? He is eighty eight years old. I know you said, you
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know, he's very physically active. He certainly has his wits about him.
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But how confident should we feel about his ability to remember after so much time.
19:48
I mean, it's hard for all of us. It can be hard
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to remember what we did last week. I know, you know, I
19:53
was very skeptical when I read the book, and I've spent about fifteen sessions
19:59
with him working through all of this, and I can tell you his memory
20:02
is better than mine. I wish I had as good a memory as he
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does. But you know, if you say to anybody my age or older,
20:08
where were you on the day Kennedy was assassinate, it didn't know exactly
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where they were and who they were with and what happened. It's an indelible
20:15
memory. Same with nine to eleven today, you ask people of the younger
20:18
generation where were they on nine to eleven? They all remember that. Do
20:22
you remember the day before? No? Do you remember the day after?
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No? But that day you do remember. So it's a very indelible memory
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for him. And you know he's coming forward now because ten years ago he
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read a book for the first time about the assassination and saw that they had
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this central fact wrong that they they said they found the bullet on Conley's Governor
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Conley Stretcher, and Paul was like, no, I brought that bullet in
20:48
and left it on JFK. Stretchers. So they had this fundamental fact wrong.
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And he began to ask people about it and then decided to write his
20:55
book. But it's taken a period of time because he's not a writer,
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you know, to get this all together. So you know, this calls
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into question again the whole lone gunman theory. Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald
21:07
did act alone? Especially if this information from land Is is true. But
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here's the problem. If if it's stuck in Kennedy's back and did not transit
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and then hit Governor Conley. You can see on this a Brooder film that
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Kennedy is reacting to being shot as he comes out from behind that sign,
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and a second later Conley reacts it is not enough time for Lee Harvey Oswald
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to do his bullet action, which takes at least two point three seconds to
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you know, turn it and aim and fire. So a second is too
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simple. It means Oswald couldn't have hit Kennedy with the first bullet and then
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Conley with the second bullet. So if that's true and it really did stick
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in his back and there was a second bullet, it really raises exponentially the
21:55
possibility there was a second shooter. And if that's true, there may have
21:57
been multiple shooters. So really ages everything. Well, thank you for watching.
22:02
Go to Newstation now dot com to find newstation on your television provider,
22:06
and don't forget to click the red subscribe button below to get more of news
22:10
stations fact driven, unbiased coverage. Thanks lady. All right, so there
22:19
you have the Paul Land this version of events, and you have the purpuers,
22:26
the maysayers, the lone nuts supporters coming out of the woodwork and saying,
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well, this is not what Paul Lander said sixty years ago. Why
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is he just coming down now with this. He just did an interview twelve
22:48
years ago. Didn't mention it. The guy just told you, okay,
22:56
ten years ago he was given a book. There's Ayah Thompson's book Six Seconds
23:03
in Dallas, and they finally read it. You have to understand, folks,
23:12
the entire Paul Landish story. Now, mind you, the Warrant Commission
23:17
never talked to this guy. By the way, he's fifteen feet away from
23:22
Kennedy and never never talked to this guy. You're assigned to protect Maclyn Kennedy.
23:34
You're part of the Secret Service. You are in the follow up car
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and the president of the United States head explodes in front of you and a
23:47
hail of bullets. There's not even enough time for this guy to react like
23:52
Glynn Hill did and get off and run. Everyone acts different, you know,
24:03
in that moment where you realize something is going horribly wrong and you're not
24:11
one hundred percent sure of what to do. Hesitation is a very, very
24:18
bad thing, and you have to understand that. Back in the early sixties
24:22
like this, sure, you know, the Secret Service agents were trained to
24:27
protect and give their life to protect the lives of the president and his family
24:34
and all of that stuff, But they weren't rigorously training two act without thought,
24:47
muscle memory. You know, you have to be familiar with that situation,
24:53
and I don't I couldn't tell you if they trained exactly for a situation
24:56
like this, and what exactly to do in a situation like this? What
25:00
do you do? There is no time to think. You just must react.
25:07
And out of all of the Secret Service people in that in and on
25:11
that car, Clinton Hill is the only one that did anything correctly. You
25:19
know, even the two driving the limo hit the brakes when they should have
25:27
hit the gas. So, you know, I believe Land has had only
25:38
been a Secret Service agent for two years at the time that Kennedy was assassinated,
25:47
and he was a young fellow in his twenties, mid twenties. And
25:49
you see this. You're in the follow up car and he's talking about driving
25:55
in to a mist of brain matter in blood and ducking and still getting stuff
26:03
on you seeing the aftermath in the limousine, and it haunted him, haunted
26:11
him. He said it played in his head like a movie for years.
26:18
He didn't pay any attention. We had. I think it wasn't but a
26:23
year or two after the Kennedy assassination that he quit the Secret Service because he
26:27
couldn't put something properly anymore. I mean, it does. It takes a
26:33
toll on you, you know, to have that replay in your head,
26:36
you know, while you're trying to go to sleep every night, to always
26:41
constantly be looking over your shoulder and expecting the worst or fearing the worst that
26:45
can happen, and facing your own mortality and all this takes a toll on
26:52
somebody. So, like I said, the More Commission never interviewed this guy.
26:57
Okay, they didn't really talk about the Kennedy assassination a lot in the
27:04
Secret Service because it was a very troubling situation, not only personally for a
27:14
lot of the agents, but for the agency itself. It was a failure
27:22
for them. So when something like that happens, you really don't want to
27:27
dwell on it. You want to move forward and ensure that it never happens
27:32
either. The the trauma you know in PTSD that that that's something like that
27:48
would have trigger in somebody. Like I said, this guy didn't read the
27:51
warning report, He wasn't interviewed. He didn't want to think about it.
27:53
He didn't read any books about it, and he ever watched any movies about
27:56
it. It was just all he could do to put it out of his
28:00
mind for all these years until somebody decided to give him six seconds in Dallas,
28:08
and he read it and he realized that they had gotten one big important
28:15
fact wrong. And that's the fact that the bullet CE three ninety nine,
28:22
the Near Christine quote unquote magic bullet, they said, had been found on
28:27
Connolly stretcher. But he distinctly remembers putting it with the President's body so that
28:34
it would be found during his autopsy. And at some point it must have
28:40
rode off the President's stretcher and onto Connelly stretcher. So, like I said,
28:48
if true, it changes everything. It changes the shot sequence or possibly
28:56
could you know, like I said, the the the lone nutters. You
29:08
know, I want to poopooh this guy. And I don't hold it against
29:14
him. But what did he say exactly? You know? So in nineteen
29:22
sixty three he had to do Secret Service reports for the Treasury Department, and
29:29
on November the twenty seventh, nineteen sixty three, he wrote his report and
29:36
submitted it to the Secret Service, and he says, you know, at
29:41
this moment, I heard what sounded like a report of a high powered rifle
29:45
behind me. My first glance was at the President. Because my eyes were
29:49
almost straight ahead at that time, I did not realize that the President had
29:53
been shot into the point. I saw him moving and thought he was turning
29:57
in the direction of the sound. I immediately returned my gaze to the building
30:03
which I had observed there, and a quick glance saw nothing, and dropped
30:07
my eyes to the crowd at the intersection, scanning it quickly from right to
30:10
left. I saw nothing out of the ordinary and thought that the sound may
30:15
have been a firecracker, but I couldn't see any smoke. In fact,
30:18
I think I recall Special Agent Jack Ready saying, what is it a firecracker?
30:23
I said, I don't know. I don't see any smoke. All
30:27
during this time I was scanning the crowd and returning my gaze to the President's
30:30
car. By the end, I think I had my gun out, but
30:36
I do not recall exactly when it was drawn. I then thought that maybe
30:41
one of the cars in the motorcade it had a blowout that it echoed off
30:45
the buildings. I looked at the front right tire of the President's car and
30:48
saw it was okay, and glanced to see the rear right tire, but
30:53
did not as the follow up car was too close. In fact, from
30:57
my position on the running board of the follow up car, I couldnot see
31:02
the rear bumper over the President's car. I glanced back towards the President and
31:07
he still appeared upright in his seat, leaning slightly towards Missus Kennedy. It
31:12
was at that moment I heard a second report and saw the President's head split
31:17
open and pieces of flesh and blood flying through the air. I also remember
31:22
a special Agent, Clinton Hill, tempting to climb onto the back of the
31:26
car at the time the second shot was fired, I would guess at the
31:30
time between the first and second shot was approximately four or five seconds. My
31:36
reaction at this time was that the shot came from somewhere towards the front,
31:40
but I did not see anyone on the overpass, and I looked along the
31:44
right hand side of the road. By this time, we were almost at
31:47
the overpass, and the only person I recall seeing was a Negro male in
31:52
light green slacks and a beige colored shirt running across a grassy section towards some
31:57
concrete steps what appeared to be a low stone wall. He was in a
32:02
bent over position, and I did not notice anything in his hands. By
32:08
now, the President's car and the follow up car, we're traveling at a
32:12
high rate of speed. We passed under the overpass. I was looking back
32:15
and saw a motorcycle. Police been stopping approximately where I saw the man running.
32:21
I do not recall hearing a third shot. Paul Landis Junior nineteen November
32:28
twenty seventh, nineteen sixty three. So he says he remembers hearing two shots
32:34
and says, I don't recall hearing a third shot, and then for some
32:42
reason, three days later, on November thirtieth, nineteen sixty three, he
32:47
wrote another report for the Secret Service. There is a lot more detailed and
32:54
includes everything that he did that day, from love Field to the motorcade and
33:02
all that he says. Uh, just before we reached the heart of downtown
33:10
Dallas, I remember noticing some new looking, very high, multi storied skyscrapers,
33:16
and I remarked to Jack Ready that there were even people way up on
33:21
the roof of one. I think the motorcade made a right turn on the
33:23
main Street, as that is the only street sign I saw and remembered.
33:28
I remember thinking to myself that every town I know of has a main street,
33:32
and then they're talking about traveling down main street and okay, well,
33:42
we reached the end of main Street. We turned right and approached a gradual
33:45
left turn. As we approached the intersection, and while we were turning left,
33:51
the crowds seemed to thin and almost disappear around the turn. Excuse me.
33:57
I then made a quick surveillance of a building which was to beat on
34:00
the President's right once the left turn was completed. It appeared to be the
34:06
last one in sight. It was a modernistic type building, approximately eight stories
34:10
high, and it had a large glass windows. I also seemed to recollect
34:16
warrings, handeling, or sighting. None of the windows were open, and
34:21
I did not see anyone standing by them. I surmised that the building was
34:24
closed or that all its employees were out on the corner. As the President's
34:30
car continued around the corner, I continued to survey the crowd. I continued
34:34
to look at him to an overpass over the route we were traveling. As
34:38
approximately took point, I would say the President's car and the follow up car
34:44
I just completed their turns and both were straightening out. At this moment,
34:47
I heard what sounded like the report of a high powered rifle from behind me
34:52
over my right shoulder. When I heard the sound, there was no question
34:55
in my mind what it was. My first glance was that the president,
35:00
as I was practically looking at his direction anyway that saw him moving in a
35:05
manner which I thought was to look in the direction of the sound. I
35:08
did not realize that President Kennedy had been shot at this point. I immediately
35:14
returned my gaze over my right shoulder toward the modernistic building I had observed before.
35:19
With a quick glance, I saw nothing and immediately started scanning the crowd
35:23
right to left. I observed nothing unusual and began to think that the sound
35:29
had been that of a firecracker, but I hadn't seen smoke all this time.
35:34
I continued to scan the crowd, returned my gaze towards the President's car,
35:38
and he talks about the tires, again checking them out. I also
35:44
thought of trying to run and jump on the President's car, but did not
35:45
think I could make it because of the speed which we were traveling. I
35:50
decided I had better stay and where I was, so that I would at
35:52
least be near the first lady to whom I was assigned. I think that
35:58
it was this point that I thought fat or fat or faster. I think
36:00
we did. We can knock it out of the area soon enough. However,
36:06
I don't have any idea as to how fast we were moving. I
36:09
had drawn my gun, but I'm not sure exactly when I did this.
36:14
I did leave my super boat unbuttoned all during the motorcade, thinking as the
36:19
time, thinking at the time that I could get to my gun faster this
36:22
way if need be. At glanced towards the President and it still he still
36:29
appeared to be fairly upright in his seat. I think Missus Kennedy had her
36:34
right arm around the President's shoulders at this time, remember what he said about
36:38
possibly her arm may have brushed the bullet out of his back and on to
36:45
the little ledge. It was at this moment I heard a second report,
36:54
and it appeared the President's head split open with a muffled sound. Best described
37:00
the sound as I heard it as the sound you would get by shooting a
37:02
high powered bullet. Into a five gallon can of water and shooting into a
37:08
melon or shooting into a melon. I saw pieces of flesh and blood flying
37:14
through the air, and the President slumped out of sight towards Missus Kennedy.
37:20
The time lapsed between the first and second report must have been about four or
37:22
five seconds. My immediate thought was that the president and not possibly could not
37:28
possibly be alive after being hit like that. I still was not certain from
37:32
which direction the second shot came, but my reaction at this time was that
37:37
the shot had come from somewhere towards the front right hand side of the road.
37:42
I wonder why they didn't call this guy for the Warren Commission. I
37:45
did not notice anyone on the overpass, and I scanned the area to be
37:51
to the right, then below the overpass, where the terrains sloped towards the
37:55
road on which we were traveling. He talks about seeing the Negro man again,
38:01
and he was looking back towards the follow up car, shaking his head
38:09
back and forth and gave a thumbs down signed with his hand. Asked if
38:17
anyone got the exact time the shooting, and someone said about twelve thirty pm.
38:22
And someone told me to get inside the car and pull me by the
38:25
arm. My sunglasses fell off especial Agent Bennett handed them to me. By
38:30
now we were in an expressway and a few people were standing in spots along
38:35
the way waving as we went by. Sometime around twelve thirty seven, we
38:39
arrived at Parkland Hospital. I immediately ran to the left were side of the
38:43
President's car, reached over and tried to help Missus Kennedy by taking hold of
38:47
her shoulders. She did not want to let go of the President, who's
38:52
head she held in her lap and she was bending over. She said something
38:57
like no, I want to stay with him, and then Agent Hill,
39:00
on the meantime cover up his head with his jacket. I remember mister Powers,
39:07
mister Dave Powers, leaning into the car and saying, oh no,
39:09
mister President, mister President. By this time someone was lifting the President's body
39:15
out of the right side of the car. Agent Hill helped Missus Kennedy out
39:20
of the car and I followed. Missus Kennedy's person hat and a cigarette lighter
39:23
were on the back seat. I picked these three items up as I walked
39:28
through. As I walked through the car and followed Missus Kennedy into the hospital.
39:35
The president's body was taken directly to an emergency room, and I think
39:38
I remember Missus Kennedy following the people in, but coming out almost immediately.
39:44
The door to the emergency room was closed, and I stayed by Missus Kennedy's
39:46
side. Someone in the meantime had brought a chair from Missus Kennedy to sit
39:52
in, and she just sat outside of the emergency room. There were several
39:57
people middling around, and with the help of a nurse, we cleared unauthorized
40:00
personnel out of the immediate area. Someone came out of the room that the
40:05
President was in and asked if anyone knew his blood tight. Kellerman and the
40:08
Hill immediately reached for their wallets, and Kellerman gave the man the information first.
40:15
At one point, someone else came out of the room and said that
40:20
he was still breathing. Missus Kennedy stood up and said, do you mean
40:22
he may live? No one answered. Most of the time while in the
40:28
hospital, I stayed right next to Missus Kennedy. Twice I believe she went
40:32
into the room where the President was However, I remained outside by the door.
40:37
A short time later, I still remember several people standing around, and
40:40
I asked the doctor for help in clearing the area. Proximately two PM,
40:45
the president's body was wheeled from the hospital in a coffin to an ambulance.
40:52
Special Agent Burger drove the ambulance. Kellerman and Stout were in the front seat.
40:58
Missus Kennedy. Admiral Berkeley in the Hill wrote in the rear of the
41:00
ambulance with the President's body. I wrote in the follow up car behind the
41:05
ambulance, which departed the hospital at two or four pm. Ten minutes later
41:09
later, arriving at love Field, they loaded the President's body on the Air
41:13
Force one and basically goes on to say that they finally arrived back at the
41:22
White House at four twenty four am. So nothing in there about the bullet,
41:34
you know. He says he grabbed her purse and cigarette lighter and stuff,
41:38
but he doesn't say talk about, you know, grabbing a bullet.
41:49
Yeah. In nineteen eighty eight, he gave an interview to the Columbus Dispatch,
41:55
and he said, arriving at the hospitals emergency enters, he remembers going
41:59
by there was its convertible and seeing the blood on the seat and then he
42:04
saw something else. I distinctly remember there was a bullet fragment on the seat,
42:09
which I picked up and handed to somebody. He doesn't remember whom,
42:14
but he does recall hesitating beforehand, wondering should I grab it or should I
42:17
leave it in the car. When Agent paul land has helped Missus Kennedy out
42:23
of the car, he saw a bullet fragment in the back where the top
42:28
would be secured. He picked it up and put it on the seat,
42:30
thinking if the car were moved it might excuse me, it might be blown
42:35
off. And then he saw a bloody Zippo lighter with the presidential seal on
42:38
it, and he picked it up and put it in his pocket. He
42:42
picked up her hat and her purse and brought them inside. It had taken
42:46
Paul land Is a long time to get over the trauma of what he'd seen,
42:50
and it wasn't until many years later that he was able to admit to
42:52
himself that what he thought he heard and what he thought he saw in the
42:55
chaos of those tragic moments had very simple explanation. He had said that one
43:00
of the shots he heard seemed to have come from somewhere towards the front.
43:05
But when he thought back with the rational mind, he believed it must have
43:07
been an echo. It wasn't a shot from the front. It was a
43:10
shot fired from behind, echoing off the overpaths directly ahead. And he had
43:16
seen a man running up the knoll, away from the street. And with
43:20
his rational mind he realized that if it had been a bystander and he heard
43:23
the barge of gun fire and had seemed the president's headache glowed, he would
43:27
have been running away too. It was a natural human reaction, not evidence
43:30
of a second shooter. He had made the statements five days after the assassination,
43:36
still traumatized, and at that time he believed their statements to be true.
43:40
He wished he had the presence of mind then that he had now he
43:45
realized the effect of his statements. But what could he do now? After
43:49
all these years, he too had been living in a tremendous guilt on grief
43:52
on so many levels. So you know, it's it's understandable. You know,
44:05
three days after the assassination, how much sleep do you think this guy
44:07
got? Starting on the morning in November twenty second, he was up the
44:15
entire day into the next day and they didn't even leave the White House still
44:20
four twenty four in the morning. And how much sleep do you think this
44:25
guy got before he put in his this three day report. You know,
44:29
he's probably still traumatized, still trying to process everything that happened, even even
44:35
five days after the assassination. On the much more detailed report. You know,
44:45
it's hard to say, and a lot of people forget that. You
44:51
know, I think it was, gosh, eight to ten years ago now,
44:58
a neighbor, a Secret Service agent, the guy who was driving the
45:01
follow up car, Sam Kinney, had come forward and said that Sam Kinney
45:09
had found the magic bullet in the back seat while they were washing the blood
45:21
out of it or something, and that they had taken it in and put
45:25
it on a stretcher or gave it to somebody to put it on a stretcher
45:30
or something to that effect. But maybe since it was second hand information coming
45:38
from Sam Kenny, who had passed away to his neighbor, you know,
45:45
who he had maybe been standing around the garage drinking a beer with one day,
45:49
and you know, he's retelling the story as you know, we we
45:55
did this, we did that. Maybe not I did this or I did
45:59
that. He could have been aware that Paul Landis had found the bullet you
46:07
know, on the back ledge of the seat of limousine and took it in
46:10
and put it on a stretcher. But maybe Sam Kenny didn't do it himself,
46:15
but maybe at some point he would have heard that land has did this,
46:27
so instead of naming him, he might have either said we did this,
46:31
or he might even he may have even taken credit for it and said,
46:36
you know, I did this. So it was not to put land
46:38
Is his name out there on blast who knows the actual truth about this,
46:43
but to me to put a bowl on all this it is perfect perfectly reasonable
46:47
to me, Land this is an explanation for not coming forward with this information
46:54
until now. And like I said, if true, if true, we
47:01
are going to be forced to reevaluate the entire shot sequence. You know,
47:12
did one really miss? Did one really miss? Or was tagged the victim
47:20
of a fragment? Not necessary? And entire bullet miss? Who knows?
47:34
Who knows? But this one magic bullet, definitely, if true, did
47:43
not make seven women's and two people. And with three shells being found on
47:49
the sixth floor, you have to only have three shots, and if you're
47:53
telling us that one missed, well, then that creates a whold on or
48:00
wounds that need some splaining for sure. So I'll just leave that there for
48:07
everybody to process and then take you in and you know, really evaluated for
48:15
yourself and take another look at things with this in mind. You know,
48:22
this could be one of the biggest revelations to come in the past sixty years.
48:28
Like I said, if it's true, well it changes everything messed up.
48:36
Moving over to somebody who has done just that, rethinking the shot sequence,
48:42
We're gonna look at the claims of researcher by the name of Eric Ulis.
48:46
Like I said, it's a very prominent researcher in certain areas. Is
48:51
the DV. Cooper mystery, the Gardener Museum heist in nineties, millions of
48:57
dollars and pains were stolen overnight by people in impersonating Lease. And now he's
49:05
dipping his toe, maybe his pink toe, into the jfk assassination. And
49:15
he's got some very controversial takes as you see. So according to his website,
49:22
he writes a little blurb there and it says, although the warrant Commission
49:30
report ultimately provided many answers concerning the assassination of JFK. A few people realized
49:36
that the report was unable to answer a few critical questions. Moreover, these
49:39
questions, if answered, could dramatically reshape what we know about the events of
49:44
that day. Among the many Warren Commission findings was a determination that a total
49:49
of three bullets were fired, all of them by Lee Harvey Oswald. Notably,
49:52
only two of these bullets or remnants of bullets were recovered. Therefore,
49:58
one bullet has never been found. Additionally, the Warrant Commission was never able
50:01
to determine which of Oswald's three shots missed. While this fact may seeming significant
50:07
in reality, determining which shot missed may be of enormous historical significance. Actually,
50:15
they did answer this question, Eric, and they said it was the
50:17
second shot that missed. Let's start by discussing the number of shots. In
50:24
fact, of the one hundred and seventy eight witnesses of the assassination indearly Plaza,
50:32
eighty one percent of them claimed they heard three shots, twelve percent claimed
50:37
they heard two shots, five percent claimed they heard four or more shots,
50:44
and two percent claimed they only heard one shot. Needless to say, this
50:51
witness testimony is compelling. Likewise, when Oswald's sniper's nest was discovered on the
50:55
sixth floor shortly after the assassination, three spent cartridges were laying on the floor,
51:01
strongly endorsing the notion that only three shots were fired, or precisely three
51:07
shots were fired. As the investigation started, evidence collected from the victims and
51:13
the presidential limousine indicated that two bullets were accounted for and that one remaining bullet
51:17
was still outstanding. This missing third bullet, which apparently completely missed the presidential
51:23
limousine and its occupants, has never been recovered. Therefore, the missing third
51:28
bullet is not only somewhat of a mystery, it presumably still resides somewhere around
51:31
Daily Plaza, yet to be discovered. Importantly, the Warrent Commission could not
51:38
determine which of the three shots fired by Lead Ervy Oswald was a shot and
51:43
missed, although most seemed to think that it was either the first or second.
51:46
In other words, most generally consider the kill shot to the President's need
51:50
to be the third and final shot. Here's where I think the evidence may
51:54
actually tell a different story. As I have exhaustively studied the warrant commissioner portes,
52:00
a Pruter film, witness testimony, and other materials related to the assassination,
52:06
I've come to the conclusion that the missing shot was likely the third shot,
52:09
meaning Oswald fired one more shot after the fatal kill shot. And here
52:15
are some reasons why. I have seen nothing in the Zapruter film that suggests
52:22
anyone reacted to anything before the shot that first struck the president in the back,
52:29
likely occurring as a Pruter frame two fifteen. Specifically, I'm referring to
52:35
Secret Service agents in the motorcade who were prompted to react once they've heard the
52:38
first shot. Generally speaking, the spectators and dealing plaza were very slow to
52:44
grasp and respond to what was unfolding, and therefore are unreliable in terms of
52:50
identifying individual shots via the Zupruter film. A lot of testimony from Secret Service
52:57
agents, Jackie Kennedy and other witnesses of pears to suggests that the first shot
53:00
correlates with the President being hit in the back and reaching for his neck.
53:06
Of note, the number of people who actually witnessed the President being struck in
53:10
the back is appreciably lower than the one hundred and seventy eight people in Deali
53:15
Plaza who heard the shots. Needless to say, attempting to pin down the
53:20
first shot requires a witness to not only have heard a shot, but to
53:23
have also seen the president react to the shot. The kill shots the Pruder
53:29
frame three thirteen was approximately five point three five seconds after the president was hitting
53:34
the back. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that a second shot was squeezed
53:39
in between these two shots, because of the time required to shoot a bolt
53:44
action rifle, and because the majority of witnesses stated that the second and third
53:47
shots were bunched together relative to the first. Simply put, the five point
53:53
three five seconds between the back shot and kill shot did not have enough time
53:59
for a second shot spaced accordingly to have occurred. There is witness testimony that
54:05
indicates that the kill shot was the second shot. Secret Service agent Clinton Hill
54:09
stated he only heard two shots, with the second being the kill shot.
54:15
Jackie Kennedy stated she thought the first two shots hit the president. Back Then
54:20
head Bill Newman stated he only heard two shots, with the second shot being
54:24
the one that struck the president in the head. Likewise, Emmett Hudson states
54:30
he heard a third shot after he saw the president gets struck in the head.
54:35
Again, all of these witnesses actually witnessed the kill shot. Given that
54:39
the president was struck twice with one shot completely missing, it stands the reason
54:44
that completely missing the first shot when the presidential limousine was at its closest seems
54:49
unlikely. Additionally, missing the third and final shot after the president had been
54:53
struck and killed makes the most sense given that the limousine was at its furthest
54:58
point from Oswald, The limousine was speeding away, and the limousine was speeding
55:02
around a curve, and Oswald had very little time to accurately reacquire the target
55:07
after the second shot. Considering the timing of the shots as described by witnesses,
55:14
why is this important first off, to be in a position to establish
55:16
a third shot was a missing shot? Is of immense historical significance because it
55:22
answers one mystery, what was Oswald shooting at? Considering that the president and
55:29
governor had both already been struck and were lying down and out of Oswald's site
55:34
at this point, My research in the case of the third shot would have
55:37
taken place approximately three point seven seven seconds after the kill shot and other words
55:44
around the repruder frame three eighty two. Recall that the majority of witness described
55:51
the second and third shots as being closer together than the first two. In
55:55
my scenario, the first shot would have occurred in round frame two fifteen,
56:00
and then a second one at five point three five seconds later at frame three
56:04
thirteen killed shot, then three point seven seconds seconds after that at frame three
56:10
eighty two, a hastily fired third shot would have been fired but completely missed.
56:17
The Morning Commission investigated a man named James Tag, who was struck in
56:21
the face by a small piece of concrete that was apparently dislodged when one of
56:25
the bullets hit a curb near where Tag was standing in Dearly plaza. Moreover,
56:32
the location of the chip curb lines up in such a manner that suggests
56:37
a bullet responsible for the chip curb was fired at the very end of the
56:40
shooting sequence, thereby suggesting that this was the third shot and missing bullet,
56:45
and then it occurred after the kill shot. What does this mean? Upon
56:50
researching the approximate moment that the missing third shot would have been fired and Pondering
56:55
the previously asked question, what was Oswald shooting at a chilling possibility comes to
57:01
light. The answer to this question is revealed when one takes the look as
57:06
a PRUD frame three eighty two and is at this very moment that Jackie Kennedy
57:10
is climbing upon the trunk of the limousine to retrieve a piece of the President's
57:15
skull. Considering this, one must ask, could it be that the missing
57:20
third shot was intended for Jackie Kennedy? Indeed, I believe the evidence suggests
57:24
that this may be the case. Of course, given that Lee Harvey Oswald
57:30
himself was shot and killed two days later by jack Ruby, will never know.
57:34
That said, considering the evidence, it seems to both the President and
57:37
First Lady were targeted that day, but one survived. The follow up question
57:43
must be why would Oswald also target Jackie that day? In my mind,
57:47
we must consider that many of Oswald's thoughts and motivations appear a half baked and
57:52
iological. That said, perhaps he was attempting to impress the Castro regime in
57:57
Cuba, with whom he had very recently communicated, or the Soviets in the
58:01
hopes of being rewarded in some manner or being celebrated in the communist world as
58:07
a hero. Perhaps he considered a complete selling of the first couple is necessary
58:12
to make a point and ittabulish his communist credentials. Given the tragedy that day,
58:19
it's difficult to imagine there is a silver lining to be found anywhere.
58:23
Nevertheless, considering that Jackie may have been targeted to that tragedy could have been
58:29
even worse. Therefore, perhaps Oswald only completed half his mission that day.
58:37
Yeah, I'm not too sure about that. Eric not to read that,
58:49
and he says more information and new relevate, new revelations and updates will become
58:52
a crime con twenty twenty three, so pay attention. Yeah, okay,
58:58
we'll wait for that, I guess. But uh. Eric was recently on
59:04
a different podcast by the name of cross Base, and to hear him speak
59:13
the way that he speaks so confidently and very matter of fact ley as though
59:22
and you'll hear it, You'll hear it like you know. This is not
59:25
it for dispute, this is facts, this is this. He's very fitts
59:30
risque, if you will, in his assertions. And I'm want to play
59:35
you a little bit of it, just so you can hear what I'm talking
59:37
about. So here is Eric Eulis on the Cross Based podcast talking about this
59:45
very thing that we just read. So take it away, Fellas. So
59:54
tell us about this latest subject that you emailed us about. It's historical and
1:00:02
very close to your heart. Yeah, to tell us all about this story.
1:00:07
Yeah, this deals with the John F. Kennedy assassination. I'm a
1:00:13
very big fan of JFK. I've been a big fan for as long as
1:00:17
I can remember, and I've not only studied his life extensively, but I've
1:00:23
also spent some time looking at the assassination. And I'll say from the word
1:00:29
going here that I am absolutely convinced, and I think it's been proven well
1:00:36
beyond a reasonable doubt, that the assassination of John F. Kennedy did not
1:00:40
involve any kind of conspiracy. Rather, it was just as the Warren Commission
1:00:45
said, it was one lone crazy guy who took three shots at the president
1:00:52
and you know, ultimately hit his target. And there's red number one.
1:01:00
Folks keep digging, Eric, history has forever been changed because of it.
1:01:07
So you know, that's just kind of where I am with respect to that.
1:01:13
Now, having said that, there's one particular part related to the assassination
1:01:19
that I've always just found kind of fascinating, and that relates to which of
1:01:24
the three shots that were taken at John F. Kennedy missed. Because I'm
1:01:30
not sure if there are many people who know this, but again, there
1:01:34
were three shots taken at the president, and when the Warren Commission looked into
1:01:38
this, they recovered two of the bullets or parts thereof. The third bullet
1:01:45
is completely missing, So that's indicative of a shot that just completely missed.
1:01:49
The President completely missed, the limousine everything. Obviously, it was never recovered
1:01:55
and the Warrant Commission was never able to determine showed the three shots missed.
1:02:01
Was it the first shot, was it the second shot, or was it
1:02:05
the third shot. Now, several years later, there was the House Select
1:02:10
Committee on Assassinations that revisited the assassination and they issued a report in nineteen seventy
1:02:17
nine. Now, that committee actually came to the conclusion that it was the
1:02:24
first shot that missed and it was the second shot that hit Kennedy and the
1:02:31
back that caused his arms to kind of flail up. We've probably all seen
1:02:36
that footage in the famous as a Prouder film. And then it was the
1:02:39
third shot that hit the president in the head, and we all know what
1:02:43
happened after that now, and that is shall I say, that's pretty much
1:02:49
the prevailing wisdom as far as it goes. That is that the first shot
1:02:52
that missed, ironically, when the limousine was at its closest point to Lee
1:02:58
Harvey Oswald and the sniper Nest, well, in my mind, it just
1:03:02
didn't pass the smell test. There are some problems I had with that,
1:03:06
and I wasn't so certain, and through an extensive amount of research and investigation
1:03:13
on my part, I ultimately determined with one hundred percent confidence on my part
1:03:19
that it was actually the third I determined my part. I researched my part.
1:03:30
Hi mommy man, me me me me me, Hi damn narciss as
1:03:36
much shot that missed was the third. Lee Harvey Oswald took a third shot
1:03:40
when the limousine was actually racing away from the scene because the president had been
1:03:45
killed with the second shot, and it was at that point that the limousine
1:03:50
was actually at its furthest point from a Lee Harvey Oswald in the sniper's nest.
1:03:54
There was a quick third shot that was taken it and it's that shot
1:03:58
that missed, and ultimately the bullet was never recovered as far as that goes.
1:04:03
So I won't go too far down this path. I'll ask you,
1:04:05
I'll let you ask some questions. But that is historically significant in a couple
1:04:11
of areas, one of which is the fact that this actually rewrites our understanding
1:04:17
of history related to this significant historical event. I mean, we owe it
1:04:25
to ourselves and to future generations to understand to the best of our ability precisely
1:04:30
what happened. And being able to fix the mistake that the House Select Committee
1:04:35
made in nineteen seventy nine in establishing it was the first shot that missed.
1:04:41
And fixing that error and establishing it as the third shot is important for no
1:04:46
other reason than it was a historical event, obviously, and I think it's
1:04:53
important to establish to set the record straight. But so, Johnny, come
1:04:58
lately here rate the roles of the HCA. Okay, beyond that, there
1:05:04
are other things that entered the equation, if you will. There's other significance
1:05:12
around it being a third shot that missed it rather than being a first shot
1:05:16
that missed, and let me just kind of lay it out here. What
1:05:21
happened is the limousine turned made a sharp left turn onto Elm Street, and
1:05:30
it didn't travel very far down Elm Street. We're talking probably fifty feet something
1:05:35
like that, and Lee Harvey Oswald took his first shot at the president,
1:05:42
and indeed he hit the president with the very first shot. Now this is
1:05:46
the very famous magic bullet shot. So called magic bullet shot because this is
1:05:53
the shot, and this has been proven scientifically. This isn't theory anymore.
1:05:58
This is fact. It's been proven that that bullet entered the president kind of
1:06:03
blow. This is not scientific theory, folks, this is fact. Pay
1:06:10
attention, very fitz Er, ask Gary Eric Fitzer, everybody is right shoulder.
1:06:19
And then it came out of the President just below his throat, and
1:06:25
then it continued straight into Governor Connolly's back, broke some ribs and did some
1:06:30
damage and ended up ultimately being lodged in Governor Connolly's leg. And it's this
1:06:38
bullet that was lodged in Governor Colley's leg that fell out of the wound at
1:06:43
Parkland Hospital and was later found on the stretcher there in the hospital. Again,
1:06:46
the so called magic bullet's been very controversial, but this has been proven
1:06:51
beyond a shadow with doubt that that's precisely what happened, proven beyond the shadow
1:06:58
of doubt that that's precisely what happened. This is why I wanted to play
1:07:03
the audio, folks, because it doesn't come across and written form. H
1:07:10
just just the audacity of this guy. All right, keep me keep digging
1:07:15
there, keep digging that whole. But it was the second shot that was
1:07:19
taken five point three five seconds later that hit the president in the head,
1:07:26
and this is depicted on the very famous Zapruterer frame three thirteen. And then
1:07:33
it was about two and a half seconds later, approximately Zeppruter frame three to
1:07:39
sixty, that there was a third and final shot taken that completely missed.
1:07:44
And it would have been that third shot that didn't hit anything, and of
1:07:49
course was never recovered. And just in your opinion and even in your research,
1:07:56
how common is it for and I know people are thinking this, but
1:07:59
really a bullet fell out of somebody. How common is that? Well,
1:08:01
it depends upon this situation, and it's very important to understand what's happening here,
1:08:08
And again, this has all been proven. The bullet, you know,
1:08:13
entered again, this has all been proven. For those in the back,
1:08:18
this has all been proven. Listen to what I'm saying. Kennedy traveling
1:08:26
quite fast, I want to I want to say. I say, it's
1:08:28
somewhere around I think twelve hundred feet per second something in that neighborhood. And
1:08:33
as the travel through his body, it slowed down a little bit and then
1:08:38
it was back, you know, in open air, and then hit Governor
1:08:42
Connolly. And when it hit the Governor Connolly, the bullet was actually tumbling,
1:08:46
was slightly tumbling, and that you can be you can see that in
1:08:50
the shape of Governor Collin's wound that is in his back. And then the
1:08:56
bullet hit some ribs, broke some ribs, ricochette ended up hitting his wrist
1:09:00
and then actually exiting near his wrist and dislodging in his knee. And the
1:09:04
entire time that this is happening, it stands to reason that the bullet is
1:09:10
losing velocity. So by the time the bullet actually leaves his wrist and enters
1:09:15
his leg, it's traveling out about four hundred feet per second, and this
1:09:20
is according to analysis, so it's fast enough to actually lodge within the flesh
1:09:26
of his leg, but it's certainly not going to go into the center of
1:09:30
his leg or go completely through the guy. So what you have here is
1:09:36
you have the bullet is again once again within his leg, but it's just
1:09:43
within the leg the flesh. You know, through all of everything that happened
1:09:48
up from that point, leading up to Parkland Hospital and being on a stretcher
1:09:54
and everything else, the bullet just kind of was plopped out, you know,
1:10:00
you know this basically the flesh kind of just pulopped it out and it
1:10:03
was just laying there on the stretcher and it was recovered there. So that's
1:10:09
what happened. That's what happened, and it's important to understand that, you
1:10:14
know, a lot of this stuff would be very difficult to analyze improved back
1:10:17
in nineteen sixty three at the time of the assassination, but it was actually
1:10:23
nineteen ninety one there was a company called Failure Analytics that applied then the state
1:10:30
of the art technology related to all the stuff that proved unequivocally what had happened,
1:10:34
and indeed they've actually replicated that shot. It's very easy to replicate.
1:10:40
Now when you situate President Kenny relative to Governor Conley and you know, pull
1:10:47
the trigger, they've been able to replicate. They've essentially been able to replicate
1:10:51
that shot. So again, this is fact. This is a conjecture.
1:10:55
This is fact. So well, what the heck does Oliver Stone have to
1:10:58
say about that? Then? Does it matter what an Overstone has to say
1:11:03
about that? Because this, again is not conjecture, it's a proven fact.
1:11:08
Folks, listen to what I'm saying. It probably doesn't make for a
1:11:14
very sexy Hollywood story. So therefore that you know, that's not gonna work.
1:11:17
We're gonna have to come up with guys jumping out of man holes and
1:11:20
grassy knolls, shooters and everything else, even though there is absolutely zero to
1:11:26
back it up, zero evidence to back it up. Okay, so in
1:11:29
that movie, JFK, that's what we're Yeah, absolutely zero evidence, Eric,
1:11:33
Sure, right, Wait, it's it's sometimes the universe has a way
1:11:41
of kicking you in the nuts when it comes to relevant timing of your relevations.
1:11:46
Revelations, Paul land Is couldn't have come out at a better time,
1:11:51
you idiot, referring to that they haul. They talk about the magic bullet,
1:11:58
so that that bullet did go through quite a quite a bit of I
1:12:02
don't know of a journey I guess to end up on that stretcher. Not
1:12:08
exactly magical. But but tell me about the third shot? So that was
1:12:12
never found? How is that possible? Well, because it again, the
1:12:17
reason one of the bullets was never found is because it just completely missed the
1:12:21
limousine and the President and everything. And you know, I think what happened
1:12:26
is it hit basically the street and it just disseminated. It just kind of
1:12:31
almost evaporated. And what actually happened with the third bullet here is that when
1:12:39
the third shot was taken, Yeah, because that's what bullets do when they
1:12:43
hit the street, they evaporate. Anybody else, remember that three finger says
1:12:50
hold on to the grass, three fingers, and by Oswald after the President
1:12:59
was already dead and leaning over to the left, and Governor Connley is also
1:13:04
leading to his left, and Governor Connelly's wife, who is sitting directly next
1:13:10
to Governor Connelly's actually kind of laying on top of him. Again just for
1:13:14
clarity purposes, the Governor and his wife were sitting in front of Jackie Kennedy
1:13:19
and the President. The governor and his wife were sitting on sort of on
1:13:25
jump seats basically in the limousine. So these jump seats actually were a little
1:13:30
bit lower than the bench seat that the President and the first lady were sitting
1:13:34
on right behind him, immediately behind him. And in the case of Governor
1:13:39
Connley, he was actually about six inches to the left of the President.
1:13:43
In other words, Governor Connley wasn't situated precisely in front of the President.
1:13:46
He's he situated slightly to the left. But the third shot that missed,
1:13:51
which I think was a shot, you know, taken quite rapidly, I
1:13:56
believe that Dad hit the pavement. And we actually have a witness that saw
1:14:00
it hit, a guy named Roy Skelton who was on the Triple Underpass,
1:14:05
who was from a vantage point above the limousine as the limousine was approaching what's
1:14:14
called the Triple Underpass. So he saw this entire thing, and he Roy
1:14:18
Skelton, that's Red Skelton's little brother for those of you out there. He
1:14:23
didn't know that. He actually testifies that he saw the President get hit in
1:14:28
the head. And then he said there was a shot after that, after
1:14:31
the president was hitting the head and dead that he said he hurt and saw
1:14:36
because there was like a gravel that was tossed on the road, like he
1:14:41
could see a kind of kick up some gravel or duster or words to that
1:14:45
effect on the road there. So that so what happened is the bullet apparently
1:14:50
hit there and it was a full metal jacket bullet, so the casing was
1:14:59
dislodged did that point, and apparently the rest of the bullet, which was
1:15:03
led basically the core, the rest of that or a large fragment of it,
1:15:09
continued and essentially in a straight trajectory, ricocheting a straight trajectory, and
1:15:15
about fifty feet or so beyond that actually hit a curb, a concrete curve
1:15:20
that dislodged a piece, a small chunk of concrete, and that small chunk
1:15:28
of concrete actually hit a witness, a guy named James Tag, in the
1:15:33
cheek and it causes cheek to actually bleed. So and again. So and
1:15:39
it's well documented that James Tag was, you know, actually the only other
1:15:44
person outside of the President and Governor Connley that actually endured any kind of injuries
1:15:50
during the assassination by virtue of that small chip and importantly the curb that little
1:15:58
that concrete curb that was hit by the bullet that clipped off, a piece
1:16:01
of concrete that hit mister Tag that was sent in for announce They literally sought
1:16:09
out a portion of the curb there and analyze it, and it showed that
1:16:13
it had leaden antimony. There was leaden antimony that was smeared on. You
1:16:17
can kind of see the shape the direction that the bullet came from. And
1:16:21
of course, again leading antimony is what the interior of the bullet is made
1:16:27
of. There was no indication of copper, and the jacko was made of
1:16:31
copper, So that completely supports the whole thing of the bullet initially hitting near
1:16:38
the President's limousine on the sidewalk, or rather on the street or right near
1:16:42
there, and that copper metal jacket being discarded, and then the rest of
1:16:48
the bullet moving on. But ultimately the bullet was completely disintegrated, apparently,
1:16:53
and nothing was ever found. Could it be possible that someone had picked it
1:16:56
up? I think the only thing that could applause a plausibly and picked up
1:17:00
was the copper jacket, but even that, according to experts, would have
1:17:04
just basically would kind of evaporated, and certainly the lead antimony core hitting the
1:17:11
curb, which it did pretty hard to dislodge a piece evaporating bullets again,
1:17:16
evaporating bullets everywhere. That thing just vaporized. So I just I just don't
1:17:24
think they're you know, nowadays, with you know, the kind of sophisticated
1:17:28
technology we have now, we could probably run over some you know, metal
1:17:30
detector equipment and X ray machine and actually pick up very small fragments. But
1:17:35
you know, this is nineteen sixty three, and there was They're still trying
1:17:39
to figure out what happened and in what order and everything and and and by
1:17:44
the time they kind of started putting it all together, there was just nothing
1:17:46
to be found. There. Bullets, So the first one is the magic
1:17:50
bullet, the one that goes through Kennedy's shoulder, through his neck area,
1:17:56
chest area, and then travels through Connolly and ends up on the stretchers.
1:18:00
That's the first one. The second one is the one that hits JFK in
1:18:02
the head, and the third one is the one that hits the sidewalk.
1:18:06
Is there any information on the one that hit Kennedy in the head. Yes,
1:18:12
that fragment of that bullet was actually discovered. Fragments of the bullet were
1:18:16
discovered in the limousine because a part of it, a part of it actually
1:18:20
hit the windshield basically there's a chrome frame around the windshields, a part of
1:18:27
it hit that, and fragments of the bullet were actually found in the limousine
1:18:30
near the president's feet and so forth. So they recovered several fragments of that,
1:18:36
and obviously also recovered clearly the magic bullet. So I'm trying to think
1:18:43
off the top of my head what percentage of the kill shot bullet was recovered.
1:18:48
I can't remember. Obviously wasn't the entire bullet. There were some small
1:18:53
pieces, but it was a significant portion of that bullet. So so,
1:18:58
yes, those two bullets are accounted for. Okay, So then what would
1:19:02
it mean for history? You know, let me back up a little bit
1:19:06
here and talk a little bit about the witnesses and so forth. The witnesses
1:19:15
that I'm primarily interested in are the witnesses that were lining the street right by
1:19:20
the limousine that actually not only heard the shots but saw the president get assassinated.
1:19:28
Now, there are many other witnesses in daily plaza who heard the shots
1:19:32
but didn't see the president get assassinated. So again there's sort of like two
1:19:38
classes of witnesses here when looking When looking at the witnesses that both heard and
1:19:45
saw the president get shot, it is unanimous as far as I can tell,
1:19:49
that all of them said that the first shot hit the president in the
1:19:54
back, and they described the president's reaction to that shot is either stiffening up
1:20:00
or standing up or put it raising their arms words to that effect, which
1:20:05
we all recognize is you know, when he was holding his arms up and
1:20:11
everything. So they say the first shot, the first shot that they heard,
1:20:15
is what happened there. They also say that the second shot, there
1:20:18
was a second shot that hit the president and the head. And you know,
1:20:23
we're talking about witnesses that were twenty feet away that said his head,
1:20:28
his hair jumped, and his head exploded and matter when everywhere. So these
1:20:31
people are very credible. Now, some witnesses after that said they did not
1:20:38
hear a third shot. Well, I think that is easy to explain because
1:20:44
clearly they're in panic mode. You know, some of these witnesses are panicking
1:20:47
because they just saw the president's head get blown off. But there's also a
1:20:53
large number of witnesses that actually did hear a third shot, So that pretty
1:20:59
clearly indicates that. Now, one of the things I want to briefly touch
1:21:03
upon it, and I think this is critically important, is Governor John Conley
1:21:08
from Texas. He was riding directly in front of the president. The governor,
1:21:13
for many, many years after the assassination insisted that he was not hit
1:21:20
by the magic bullet, that he was not hit by the same shot that
1:21:24
hit the president that caused his arms to flail up, And the governor acknowledged,
1:21:30
you know, hey, the science doesn't show that, but I mean
1:21:33
in his mind, that's how he recalls it. Because this is what the
1:21:39
governor said. This is what the governor says he recalls taking place at the
1:21:43
time, and this is critically important in terms of establishing that Indeita was the
1:21:47
third shot that missed. The governor said that when the car, when the
1:21:51
limousine turned on to Elm Street. Shortly after the turn, he said that,
1:21:59
you know, the President and he were kind of looking off to the
1:22:00
right a little bit. The President was waiving that type of thing, and
1:22:05
he said that he heard a first shot. Again, the governor heard the
1:22:09
first shot, which he said he immediately recognized as a rifle shot. And
1:22:15
the governor said that he turned to his right, almost completely around to his
1:22:20
right to see what happened, because that's the direction the shot came from.
1:22:27
And he said that he, you know, while he turned almost completely around
1:22:31
to the right, he didn't actually get the president within view, so he
1:22:35
actually didn't catch eye of the president. And then the governor says he immediately
1:22:42
started to turn his head back around to the left because he was going to
1:22:46
then look over his left shoulder to see if he could see anything, and
1:22:50
it was about the point where the governor was facing forward yet again he said
1:22:57
that. The governor says that that's when he believes that he got shot.
1:23:02
And he says, the reason why is because it was at that moment that
1:23:05
he felt this sudden pop in his back, like somebody with a clenched fist.
1:23:12
And this is exactly how the governor describes. It's like a clenched fist
1:23:16
punching, punching him in the back. And he said, in fact,
1:23:20
the force was so strong that it actually thrust him forward a little bit,
1:23:26
pushed him forward, and when he was pushed forward, he could see that
1:23:30
on his shirt was blood, and he said he knew at that point that
1:23:36
he had been hit. So that's when the governor says that he was hit.
1:23:42
He says that shortly thereafter or immediately thereafter, his wife, who was
1:23:47
sitting to his left, pulled him over into her lap, and that she
1:23:55
also kind of laid on top of him. And he said, as he
1:23:59
was laid down there on the side there, this happened all very quickly.
1:24:02
He said, he heard a third shot and he heard it it impact.
1:24:09
He heard it impact something that he said was the president's head. So in
1:24:13
his mind, he's thinking, he heard the third shot, he heard it
1:24:15
impact the president's head, and therefore the president's dead. So that's what the
1:24:23
governor recalls hearing during the assassination. At no point was he actually looking at
1:24:30
the president while these shots are taking places. Is just from hearing. The
1:24:35
thing is that if you look at the Zapruder film, you can see that
1:24:40
what happens is the limousine for a moment goes behind a metal street sign,
1:24:47
and everything is okay up to the point when the limousine goes behind the metal
1:24:55
street sign. In other words, no one has been shot at that point,
1:24:58
and nobody's reacting to a shot a missed shot at that point. But
1:25:02
as the car is the limousine is directly out of sight behind this metal street
1:25:06
sign. Again, it approximately is a proud frame two fifteen. That's when
1:25:12
the president gets shot and that's when the governor gets shot. They're both hit
1:25:16
with the same bullet. So within a few frames after that, the limousine
1:25:21
re emerges from behind the metal sign, and you see the governor kind of
1:25:27
sort of looking straightforward, maybe slightly to his right, unaffected, not doing
1:25:32
anything momentarily. But you see the president lifting his arms up, and that's
1:25:38
a neurological reaction, his lifting his arms up, which indicates that his spine
1:25:43
was damaged. And then within a second or two of that, you do
1:25:47
see the governor completely turned to the right, exactly as he describes in his
1:25:55
memory. You see he completely turned the right and look almost directly behind him
1:26:00
in the direction of the president. So that's spot on. Then what you
1:26:05
have is you see the governor turning back around as he said, and just
1:26:11
about the point when the governor is facing forward the governor. That's when the
1:26:17
president gets shot in the head. It's when he takes the fatal head shot.
1:26:23
And this is the point. If you look very carefully at Governor Connolly,
1:26:28
you also see that it's actually at that moment, you know, moments
1:26:33
after the kill shot, that Governor Connolly does indeed get thrust forward. He
1:26:41
actually gets thrust forward just as he recalls, and then right after that gets
1:26:47
pulled to the side by his wife, just as he recalled. So what
1:26:53
we have here is a situation where the governor's recollection of events is act through
1:27:00
it. But because he wasn't actually witnessing it looking at the president at the
1:27:03
time that this all happened, he didn't quite understand. But what happened here
1:27:09
is when the president got hit with the first shot that caused his arms to
1:27:14
go up, that bullet also entered Governor Connley. Governor Connley just didn't realize
1:27:20
he had been shot. It just didn't register. So the governor thinks,
1:27:27
that doesn't realize he's been shot, and he's still trying to figure out,
1:27:30
you know, what the deal is with that rifle shot that he heard.
1:27:33
And then, of course, as the Governor's turning around and as the President
1:27:38
gets struck in the head. What happens, and you can see this clearly
1:27:43
on the Zapruder film, is the President lurches back. He kind of kicks
1:27:48
back and apparently kicks the back of Governor Connley's seat. There is we're literally
1:27:57
talking two inches of spaces between the President's knees and feet and the back of
1:28:03
Governor Connolly's jump seat that is directly in front of him. So it's clear
1:28:09
what happened is the President gets shot in the head. He's dead at that
1:28:13
moment, and he just flails back. His upper body flails back, and
1:28:16
his legs kicked forward, and indeed they kick Governor Connolly's chair and they kick
1:28:24
it hard enough for it actually pushes the governor forward. You can clearly see
1:28:28
this on the Zapruder film. The problem for Governor Connley is he equated that
1:28:33
kick to him being shot. He didn't realize, of course, that he
1:28:41
had actually been shot about five and a half seconds earlier. At the same
1:28:45
time the President gets shot, but got shot the first time, so of
1:28:48
course the governor has kicked forward. He notices he has blood all over his
1:28:54
shirt, which makes sense because at that point, he's been shot for five
1:28:57
and a half seconds, and his wife pulls him off to the side,
1:29:01
and this is clearly visible on the zapruder film, and it was on his
1:29:06
side when he heard the final shot. Now, when that final shot is
1:29:12
taken, it's clearly after the President's already been shot in the head. So
1:29:16
why this is all important and why this is I think really notable, is
1:29:23
because if you look at the time when that third shot would have been taken,
1:29:28
which was approximately two and a half seconds after the president's head shot the
1:29:32
kill shot. At that moment, Governor Conley is leading to the left and
1:29:39
his wife is leaning over him out of sight. The President has been shot
1:29:44
in the head and is leaning to the left, dead out of sight.
1:29:49
And there is only one person, one person that is still within a gun
1:29:56
shot sight of Lee Harvey Oswald, only one person that he could have been
1:30:01
shooting at, and that's Jackie Kennedy. In fact, it's at that exact
1:30:08
moment that Jackie Kennedy is actually climbing on the back of the trunk of the
1:30:13
car in a particularly high profile position, that that third and final misshot took
1:30:21
place. So what does appear to indicate the Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't just trying
1:30:27
to kill the president, he was also trying to kill the First Lady,
1:30:31
and that obviously is significant. Again, it completely rewrites our understanding of what
1:30:39
happened to Dally Plausa that day, and importantly it causes us to step back
1:30:45
for a moment and contemplate that as bad as November twenty second, nineteen sixty
1:30:53
three was with the assassination of the president, apparently it could have even been
1:30:58
worse. Apparently First Lady could have also been assassinated. I mean, that
1:31:02
would have been extraordinarily significant. If you think about the things that Jacqueline Kennedy
1:31:08
went on to do with the remainder of her life, and I mean just
1:31:11
the charitable work that she did and everything that came from her trauma that she
1:31:16
was able to overcome and do something better in the world. Yeah, that
1:31:23
would be an extraordinary loss. So I'm wondering this all happened really fast,
1:31:29
right, This all happened within the timeframe of a few seconds. So it's
1:31:32
three shots, and you have Lee Harvey Oswald, who, by the way,
1:31:36
I just want to remind people he was twenty four crazy, right,
1:31:42
twenty four years old. When you see the pictures of him, he looks
1:31:45
like he's forty. You know, he does not look like he's does not
1:31:47
look like he's twenty four. Even in the photos of him prior to the
1:31:50
assassination, you know, he looks like he aged at a much more accelerated
1:31:56
pace than typical. But anyway, what was preventing him from waiting for Vice
1:32:02
President Johnson's car to continue into the path where he could have assassinated him as
1:32:08
well, or made the attempt to assassinate him, or was he just taking
1:32:11
like, I know, I got at least three shots right here that I
1:32:13
can get off, so I might as well go for Jackie and not have
1:32:16
to wait. Well, what do you think was preventing him from furthering the
1:32:20
political damage by taking out the vice president as well? Well, there's a
1:32:25
couple of things. First of all, I think Lee Harvey Oswald, who
1:32:30
is a demonstrated just loser. I mean, he's a sort of fiable loser.
1:32:34
I mean, here's a guy who defects to the Soviet Union, then
1:32:39
he undefects from the Soviet Union, then he tries to redefect to the Soviet
1:32:43
Union, gets denied, then he decides he wants to defect to Cuba.
1:32:47
You know. So this guy was just a loose cannon. And very importantly,
1:32:53
several months before the president was assassinated in Dallas, there was a guy
1:32:59
named General Walker who was also almost assassinated, well known political figure in the
1:33:06
Dallas area. General Walker was sitting in his study one evening and a bullet
1:33:12
came through the glass and missed his head by it like one or two inches.
1:33:16
And that was a mystery. Nobody knew who took a shot at General
1:33:20
Walker. And you know what that was all about until the president was assassinated,
1:33:27
because later on Lee Harvey Oswald's wife told the FBI that that shot that
1:33:33
Lee Harvey Oswald actually tried to kill, he was the person that tried to
1:33:38
kill General Walker. So we have Oswald tried to kill somebody several months before.
1:33:44
That was a note before the president. Also, of course, when
1:33:47
Lee Harvey Oswald was escaping, he had killed Officer J. D. Tippet,
1:33:53
who attempted to pull him over and have a discussion with him. And
1:33:56
then when Lee Harvey Oswold was caught, you know a few minutes later in
1:34:00
Texas theater, he tried to kill another cop with with a with a handgun
1:34:04
that he had there before he was arrested. So Lee Harvey Oswold was just
1:34:09
a certified loser. And basically my take on Lee Harvey Oswold is he was
1:34:16
he was the consummate victim. In other words, you know, he had
1:34:20
a rough life and things weren't going well for him, and instead of taking
1:34:25
personal responsibility, he had to blame everybody else. His view on the world
1:34:30
in America specifically was, you know, America just doesn't realize the presence of
1:34:35
the genius that I am in this society, and you know, and it
1:34:41
was a matter of some angst for him, and so I think he was
1:34:45
just flailing out at society and more importantly, trying to make a name for
1:34:51
himself leave his mark on the Obviously, when the President, if he'd like
1:34:59
to catch more the entirety of his interview, head over the cross space and
1:35:04
uh search it out. I can't listen to any more of it. Him
1:35:10
and his Lee Harvey Oswald was a consummate losing. But anyway, that's it
1:35:15
for this week. Folks. Happy two fifty again at the Lone Guming seven
1:35:19
on the socials the Lone Guming podcast on YouTube. Make sure to like him,
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subscribe and share, Share Share This is your Boy three three. He
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was like hill everyone in the dark ground. She's a man on. Don't
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believe one that to tell you he be the be the light to tell you
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the bey be that you'll chac. Yet they the boy waiting on was so
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bad. The trump a rock and begun the trouper the thing I do with
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long if they got simple song, tell me one, let me tell you
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be lines a me tell you the bigging been that chill champiain the long way
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ah wait wait up way to grow my raining from man. They bought canning
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him nWay shut him head and he fell pay down and back date of his
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card one was on him head ever had any card on on down the n'
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chell you be, I be you the biggest that child yelling were alway,
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oh where alway I get up of the residents to that pod mhm