Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / Episode 413–Managing an MBA & Major League Baseball: Sam Fuld on Wharton, Leadership & the Phillies

Transcript

Episode 413–Managing an MBA & Major League Baseball: Sam Fuld on Wharton, Leadership & the Phillies · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm your host, Graham Richmond and this special episode is one that I've been looking forward to recording for quite some time. It's an episode about the NBA and the world of sports, specifically my favorite sport, baseball. I'm absolutely thrilled to be welcoming welcoming the Philadelphia Phillies general manager and current Wharton Emba student Sam Fuld to the show. Some of you may know who Sam is, but in case you don't, here's a really quick bio. Sam's a former professional baseball outfielder and a current executive in the sport. He played college baseball at Stanford where he was a two time all American and set the school record for career runs scored. Fuld enjoyed an eight season Major league baseball career with teams including the Cubs, the Rays, Minnesota Twins and Oakland Athletics before transitioning to a front office role and becoming the general manager of the Philadelphia Phillies in 2020. So, as you can tell, I'm pretty excited about this conversation and think we should get on with it. So let's welcome Sam to the show. Hey, Sam, thanks for making some time.
• 1:18
  Speaker B: Hey Graham, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
• 1:20
  Speaker A: So you're actually joining us from Clearwater, Florida. So what's the weather like there? It has to be better than it is up in the Philadelphia area right now.
• 1:27
  Speaker B: First of all, I appreciate it. You made a good attempt at clear water and not clear water. So I appreciate that your Philly ties are popping up here immediately.
• 1:37
  Speaker A: I always get. People always give me crap for saying clear. You know, water. Can I have a glass of water? Yeah. But anyway. Yeah, so I presume it's nicer than.
• 1:45
  Speaker B: It's pretty. Pretty nice. I have to admit, I'm flying home to Philly tonight and excited to see my family. Not excited to see 30 degrees and snow and rain on the ground.
• 1:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally get that. So, Sam, as you know, when I first heard that you were heading to Wharton, I thought it would be amazing to have you on the show. Just help our listeners better understand the role that an MBA can play in a field like sports or entertainment. It's kind of an area that applicants that we talk to are increasingly interested in. And admittedly, I kind of had another motive as well. As regular listeners to the show know I'm a bit of a baseball fanatic and I love the Phillies. So I just thought this would be such a great opportunity. So let's just dive into the questions I have for you. The first one is I kind of gave, you know, the. The standard bio on you regarding you know, all the things you've done. But I just wonder if you might share a little bit about your background in your own words and maybe fill in any important blanks. And finally, like, if you're willing to divulge which team you used to root for when you were growing up in New Hampshire as a kid, I'd love to know that too.
• 2:47
  Speaker B: Sure, I can start with that one. Admittedly, I was a Red Sox fan. I really had no choice in the matter growing up right in the thick of Red Sox nation. So yeah, Red Sox fan and continue to be a Celtics fan. If I might admit that loosely, my kids are Sixers fans. But anyway, anyway, yeah, I will, Yeah, I grew up in a college town, Durham, New Hampshire. My dad was a college professor. So we were rooted in Durham, New Hampshire my whole life, my whole childhood. My parents are still there and yeah, I think obviously a lot to cover between then and now. But you know, I was certainly like in an educational family. Like my mom had taught earlier in her professional career and they met in grad school. And so education was a big part of my life growing up, but so was baseball. And those were sort of equally important in my life. Although I guess as a 8 year old, 10 year old, 18 year old, I think baseball felt more important than academics most of the time. But I also understood that top level, my goals were rooted in good educational experiences and good baseball experiences and pushing myself in both directions. I was certainly a young quant, more than a poet, just fell in love with really the intersection of math and baseball and from a really young age was sort of obsessed with the two. And you know, back then I'm aging myself but like, yeah, in the, in the 90s there were, there was no Moneyball. There were no real outlets for me to go other than reading box scores in the paper and you know, big like thick like baseball encyclopedia textbooks, handbooks, and so I would carry around these little like stat books. And that was really where my love for numbers blossomed and my love for baseball blossomed. So yeah, it's, it's sort of no surprise that I've sort of landed in a, in, in I guess a what is now a very data heavy industry. And it's no surprise that it's the baseball industry.
• 5:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's, yeah. And I also have to say like there's probably takes a fair amount of courage to play baseball in New Hampshire growing up because I mean, I played Little League and stuff in, in the Philadelphia area. Right. And it was already kind of pretty chilly in April to start hitting balls. But I mean, I'm gu guessing that up in New Hampshire your hands sting when you're hitting, when you connect with the ball.
• 5:38
  Speaker B: A lot of games in snow and just thick batting gloves. That's the key. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:46
  Speaker A: So it's really interesting that you talked about pushing yourself in both kind of the baseball domain and the academic domain because you would think that'd be sort of your academic career be concluded at this point. But you've made this decision. You're heading back, you're in business school now, getting an MBA and at a great school school, Wharton. So once again kind of pushing, pushing yourself. But before we get into the specifics of your application at business school and even the experience you've had so far at Wharton, I wonder if you could just tell our listeners a little bit about the difference between the role that you've been doing with the Phillies kind of front office general manager and the role that you are trying to move into post mba, which I think is president of business operations. Right. So what's the difference between those two?
• 6:31
  Speaker B: Sure. Very broadly, most if not all professional sports teams operate with two pretty distinct arms. You have the operations side that is dedicated to the on field product and in the case of baseball, just call it baseball operations and business operations is sort of everything else that doesn't directly relate to putting the best 26 players on your roster. And there's certainly overlap between the two at times. But my, my role to date as GM in baseball operations has really been focused on leveraging all the various resources we have in our, in our organization to just put together a World Series caliber team. You know, so that is, that touches scouting, pro scouting, amateur scouting, international scouting, that's player development. Our Minor league system, 165 minor league players, which believe it or not, is a smaller number than it used to be historically. But we're talking about six minor league teams and coaches and athletic trainers and strength and conditioning coaches and mental performance coaches and mental health resources. It's a really robust group of staff that all folds up into baseball operations. We've got analysts, you know, really like fast growing R D group. And so it's, you know, it's all said and done. We're talking about 300 plus baseball operations employees that are all sort of pulling in the same direction towards, you know, putting a World Series caliber team on the field. And, and you know, business operations is everything that is not that it is, you know, it is literal ballpark operations, you know, security, concessions, etcetera it is, it is ticket sales, it is corporate sponsorship, it is community relations, it's social media. So yeah, there, there are times when, like I said, there are times when those two intersect, but essentially I'll be migrating over to the business operations side and overseeing that group, but I will stay connected to the baseball side. That's always going to be my heart and soul. And I think longer term there could be an opportunity to have a leadership opportunity on both sides and stay really connected to the baseball side.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: Got it. So my understanding from a conversation we had before was that earning an MBA in your case was not something you'd been planning for many years. Years, but more related to these discussions you had with Philly's ownership as you contemplated this move into the business side of the team. And so I just wondered if you could tell us. I mean, this may be tricky because you kind of, you know, recently started the program, but are there things like, specific gaps that you're hoping to address by earning an mba? You know, when you think about running the business operations, like, are there things you're like, wow, it'd actually be good to take a course in this subject or are there certain things you're trying to fill?
• 9:43
  Speaker B: I think there's a lot of things I'm trying to fill. Being candid. I think, you know, without any real tangible business operations experience, I think I was going into this process eyes wide open and eager to learn just across like multiple spaces. And so I think the, my first term is a good example of it. I took an accounting class that I sort of butted heads with, but it was like, very valuable. I mean, it was like, frankly, very limited exposure to reading and understanding financial statements. And despite some of the challenges that I encountered in that class, I'm really glad I went through it because I can better speak the language and ultimately will better be able to ask questions and identify opportunities at a top level at least, and have conversations with your CFO that I think are meaningful and impactful. And you know, alongside my accounting class, I took a just a microeconomics class that I think gave me like a much obviously a broader based understanding of how certain strategies, certain approaches could help the Phillies at a top level. And then there's everything in between. There's the human and social capital class that I took that I think could relate to any industry that you're in, but I found like, wildly valuable. So I guess the short answer is that there are a number of gaps and I. And just given that I've never, I think you walk away with a. Really what I expect to walk away with. And I could walk away today, you know, nine or ten months in, and feel much more comfortable just sort of understanding how a business operates at a very top level.
• 11:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, I have, you know, I went to Wharton many years ago and I had that same experience. Both the butting heads with accounting, but also the understanding that it was really valuable is kind of the language of finance and, you know, just, yeah, really useful. And I agree with you. So many areas that you can learn across the curriculum. I guess I do want to ask you. A lot of our listeners are in the process of applying to business school and many of them want to go to Wharton, but they also want to go to other top schools and things. But I just wonder, do you have any advice about the application process? And I know we were talking before we came on air about how you were a bit late in the game to applying and stuff, but any thoughts about the process or any advice for somebody who's got to apply to a business degree?
• 12:05
  Speaker B: Sure, yeah. I mean, my situation was perhaps a bit unique in that it was rushed, accelerated, and was not firmly on my radar. And I don't, I suppose I don't hold that against myself, but I think if I were to give any advice, it's to not only give yourself time to work through the process, but give those who you're going to lean on as resources time. You know, I felt a little bit guilty of sort of asking a couple people in the Phillies organization, my boss, to write letters of recommendation in a really abbreviated period of time. So on the flip side of, you know, I recently had a former player of ours in the Phillies who's applying to business school, and he gave me like four weeks to write a letter of recommendation. And I really appreciated that. So I think, you know, it's a, it's a simple message, but I think like, yeah, and certainly your everybody's own individual circumstances will dictate your respective timelines, but to the extent that you can work through it, and it's a, obviously it's a, you know, it's a daunting prospect. That's why your resource exists, Graham. But I think it's, you know, I think there's no, and this is the way my mind typically works, but I, I do try to ingest as much information as possible when making these sorts of decisions, and I guess this one flies in the face of that approach, but it was circumstantial and it was like, well, I've got A great opportunity here in my backyard. It's 20, 25 minutes from my house. It's literally on the way to the ballpark. So the geography certainly worked in my favor. But yeah, so it was a sort of a slam dunk to give it a run.
• 13:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think we do talk a lot on the show about recommenders are this sort of wild card because you control, stay up all night and write your Wharton essay or whatever you're working on as part of your piece of the application. But when it comes to the recommenders, you got to ask them A, and then B, you kind of need to manage them and you want to give them that extra time. So, yeah, having the four weeks that you got is probably better than whatever you were given. I don't know if it was Dave Dombrowski, whoever was writing your letter. That's who it was. All right, so on a related note, understanding that the NBA came on the radar a bit late, you know, did you still have any chance to, like, you talk to anybody? Did you know anybody who had an mba? Any, you know, any. Anybody in your network? I mean, I assume, you know, you went to Stanford, so there might be people, you know, who like, went off to get a, a top MBA or, you know, are there any, you know, did you talk to any Wharton grads or even current students as you were going through this?
• 14:41
  Speaker B: I did, yeah. I think it was funny as I look back at all my Stanford baseball teammates, just how many did go and get an NBA whenever they were done playing, whether that was, you know, soon after college. But even a classmate of mine, former roommate of mine, Carlos Quetton, who played in the big leagues for 10, 10 ish years and had like a very successful career, you know, decided to go back and get his NBA out in, out on the west coast. And like, it was a really cool conversation because it's something that you hear as a friend. You're like, oh, that sounds hard. And it was, again, it was not on my radar. And you heard sort of casually that they're back in school and Sounds daunting when you hear it. But it was cool to have the conversation with him and other former Stanford teammates, you know, friends just in my friends network that, you know, have gone through the process, whether it's full time or executive program. Really neat to be able to lean on them and suddenly just get like an influx of information related to the, to the program that really put me at ease, you know, as I was going through the process, however rushed it may have Been. It was really neat to just have a feel for what lay in front of me, given that sort of flooding of knowledge and experience that I got from my friends.
• 16:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So now you've been in the program for a little while and I just wondered if you'd be willing to share maybe an anecdote from a class that you've taken at Wharton or even just something that you learned in your coursework that has resonated with your work life. And I know you kind of alluded to a little bit of that earlier when we were talking more broad brushstrokes, but is there anything in particular that kind of jumps to mind a class that you go into the office and you're like, oh, I could look at this problem at work this way or something that really struck you?
• 16:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot. It's hard to really pinpoint one. I mean, I touched on the sort of human and social capital module that I took within, within a management class that I think really hit home with me and at least confirmed a lot of the things that we have done on our own. And perhaps I feel like the, maybe not specifically the Wharton business school approach has permeated the game, but like the business school approach to performance management, performance development. I think it's neat to see that sort of collide naturally like that through an actual class that I took. I don't know, I think like the one. I mean, there's so many that stand out. I had a professor in my first term who taught like a globalization class, who I think is pretty well known for actually stepping outside the scope of the curriculum and providing wisdom towards the end of a class and with some sort of like big life lessons. It was really neat. Like, I just, I don't know that that will sit with me for the, those little five minute end of class moments will, will really resonate with me, I think for, for as long as I can, as long as I'm alive. Like there, there was one lesson that he taught, like a very simple anecdote about like tying your shoelace and relearning, like told our whole class that, you know, you're probably tying your shoelace the wrong way and here's how. And so it's like half of our heads exploded. Like, there's no way. We've been doing this the right way our whole lives. You can't tell me this. And I think in reality they're like, okay, there is this better way. And the key is to like one, open your Minds to doing things a little bit differently. Even if it is like rewiring your brain to learn to do something in a different way. And then like, yeah, don't just learn how to do this today and forget about it. The key is to learn a new trick, learn a new strategy, learn a new mindset and stick with it and to continue to do that. So I can't say that I've learned how to tie my shoe in a new way and continue with it, But I think the broader point really landed with me and like, I think just about everybody else sitting in the classroom that day.
• 18:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like there are examples abound of that sort of thing where, you know, if you think about artificial intelligence, the way that technology and different things are constantly transforming, I mean, even look at baseball, right? You have sort of this era until Moneyball where it's sort of scouting and, you know, player feel kind of stuff. And then things completely change. Right. So there's. Yeah, always good to have an open mind to how you can do things. What about your classmates? I mean, we always hear about how amazing the students are at a place like Wharton or any top school. But I just wondered, is there anything that you've picked up from a classmate? I'm guessing they're all bringing their own sets of really interesting experiences into the classroom from different fields, no doubt.
• 19:37
  Speaker B: I've learned a ton. As valuable as the classroom setting has been, I think the conversations in between classes or at lunch or dinner with my learning team and with everybody else in the cohort, those are equally as valuable. And that was really something that I was looking forward to entering the program. And I knew how diverse the set of experiences and industries which all my classmates work in was really spectacular and somewhat, I think, special about Wharton. Like a very broad array of backgrounds to lean on and learn from. So again, same thing. Tough to pick one. I was in a sports management class, like a block week, you know, four day, half credit class that was really neat. I mean, it was, despite being sports oriented, was largely novel for me. And we had a TA who was just like a year ahead of us and was in the sports industry. You know, interestingly, I think I'm the only one who's actually in the sports industry out of the 120 or so classmates that I have in Philly. So it's neat to connect with somebody who's actually had a background in sports. And he was until recently, like in the agency side of sports and represented not baseball players, but sort of Olympic caliber athletes. And it was just really neat to connect with him and hear about his experiences. And we've since stayed in touch despite, you know, him being across the country and a year apart. And, you know, he's sort of been in various roles throughout the industry of agency and within sports and the intersection of private equity and how they're sort of impacting the game or impacting sports at large. So it's been really neat to have a relationship with him and get to learn from a lot of his sort of experiences that haven't necessarily collided with the world of baseball just yet.
• 21:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I guess the caliber of students and faculty and TAs, et cetera, is always really high. And you just. Yeah, there's a lot to learn from everyone. I did want to ask you, you know, we were talking earlier about the role that you're going to take on after you finish the MBA on the business side. And, you know, I'd read an interview with you where you talked about, you know, still being really passionate about putting the best 26 players on the field to win a World Series, which, you know, you underlined just earlier in our conversation too. But I guess I'm kind of curious to understand how these two areas are related. And the example that came to my mind was if the business operations are thriving, doesn't that provide, you know, more capital to get and maintain great players or even. And I don't know if you, if you know, these numbers are allowed to share, but I'm kind of wondering, you know, if you sell like a ton of Bryce Harper jerseys, does that move the meter in terms of giving you fuel to be able to do other things on the field with the players? I mean, I presume it does, but I just don't have a real sense as a fan of like, how, how much this stuff really swings things.
• 22:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great, great question. Great observation. I think every situation is different. Every market is different. So I think we're fortunate here in Philly to. I think we have an elastic market, right. Like, we do well on the field, our business will be good. And so there's. And then vice versa, as you point out, like, if our. Are strategic about generating revenue at a high level, and that certainly affects our flexibility in payroll and paying players and paying other investments throughout baseball operations, R&D, etc. So there is a real impact and there's real synergy between the two. Like, frankly, you know, the Dodgers are getting a lot of attention right now. Yes, as we know, if you're if you're any kind of baseball fan. And yes, they have a very high payroll this year, but that is not disconnected from what they've done on the business side. And the, the amount of revenue they've been able to generate, some of it is tapping into the Asian markets with a lot of their high profile, successful Japanese players, Ohtani, Yamamoto, Sasaki. Now they've really leveraged that opportunity. And I think while many have this sort of narrative that they are digging deep into their pockets for this almost $400 million payroll, I think it is largely a product of the really strong strategies that they've employed on the business side. So yes, I think it's really cool to think about it that way. While we might not be on the business side directly, we're not trading with other GMs the way that I have in the past. When it comes to roster management, you are definitely impacting the quality of play on the field. So that, that's a pretty cool thing to rally around.
• 25:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. It's funny just talking about the Dodgers. I live in Paris, as we talked about that before, I live in France and there aren't as many baseball caps and jerseys floating around when you walk the streets of Paris. But I've seen more Dodger stuff over the last couple of years. It used to be only Yankees hats that you would see anywhere internationally and now the Dodgers stuff is in a lot of places. But I will say my kids observed recently that they think they're seeing a lot more Phillies hats even in Paris, which you know, I think goes to the brand. I mean the Phils did come and play in Europe last year with that London series. But also the Phillies have been good for several years and that always helps, right, to get, to get, get the word out.
• 25:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. And yeah, we, I don't know, we just signed the only German born player in the major leagues to a one year deal, Max Kepler. So maybe it's, maybe all of Europe can rally around Max.
• 25:55
  Speaker A: There you go.
• 25:56
  Speaker B: This year.
• 25:57
  Speaker A: That would be great. So one thing I wanted to ask you about as well is this whole, you know, we talked a little bit like this sort of pre money ball, post moneyball stuff. And I don't know, I feel like I've seen these articles over the years. It's like how the Ivy League took over baseball, front offices or you know, all this stuff about saber metrics, statistics and almost this like move away from scouting and towards these sort of metrics. But I feel like you're in this really interesting position right you have gone to some of the best graduate and undergraduate institutions on the planet. Hanford, Wharton, and you know, and yet you were also a ball player. And so I just wonder like, you know, how do you juggle those two worlds and you know, is it does it probably gives you sort of almost like a superpower to have been on both sides here. But. But what's your take?
• 26:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's really, it's really neat. I mean, I'm fortunate to have been able to experience those educational opportunities and I think I'm certainly fortunate to like, say that I played a day of professional baseball, let alone, you know, have like a, whatever the 13 years that I was able to play professionally like that. I pinch myself a lot thinking about that.
• 27:06
  Speaker A: So I.
• 27:07
  Speaker B: And it's. Yeah, certainly there's been a paradigm shift in the way that major league front offices are operated. There's. It's just highly competitive and like, there's a lot of really impressive people throughout, throughout major league front offices. Makes sense. You know, it's a billion, multi billion dollar industry and everybody's laser focused on making the best decisions they can to try to win a world championship and also, you know, help the franchise appreciate in value. And so, you know, I think sometimes I think about how long it took to really make that change in the industry and, and why it took a book about the Oakland A's to really shift things. But it's also a game rooted in tradition, so it can be slow moving at times. But yes, I think I am, you know, fortunate to sort of be, like I said earlier, be comfortable quantitatively be comfortable sort of speaking the language and understanding how to evaluate players and understand how to evaluate ways to develop players through a quantitative lens and to be able to speak that language and also be able to speak the language of a former player and like, have the sort of experiential empathy to know what it's like to be sitting in a manager's office being told that you're being sent down to AAA or being told that you're gonna, you're traded and you are on a flight the next day to. And you can, you and your family can just hang with them and just do whatever you need to do. Like just, you know, having these abrupt changes in your life can be really like impactful in either direction, good or bad. And just knowing that, that like, nobody's forgetting that our players are human beings. But I think the amount of stress, the amount of like, I don't know, just the amount of emotional toll that I think playing the game takes, especially at the highest level with a lot of pressure. I think it's helpful to have had that experience and to just be able to relate to players and have conversations not just about how data and technology can help them improve, but just what it's like to be a dad or a husband and playing in a really high pressure packed environment on a nightly basis. Those kinds of conversations are equally as important.
• 29:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I guess one thing I've been thinking about is how, I guess it's sort of an analogy here between. People always talk about the MBA admissions process. There's a lot of debate online about how, oh, it's a science if you have the numbers, you get into business school and other people say, no, no, there's some art to it. It's like, what, what type of experience have you had? What's your personal story? Like, what are you going to bring into the classroom? And obviously it's both. Right. And, and so I think, I mean this, what I'm hearing from you is that it's really both and you have this nice ability, I think, to be able to, you know, you can, as you say, you can talk to a player about what it's been like to be sent down or whatever, and, but also you've got the quantitative chops to look at the numbers and, and figure things out. So yeah, I, I, I definitely, I don't like it when I hear these, read these articles about how it's like, oh, you're either a Moneyball person or you're a scout person. To me you kind of have to be both. Right? So it's, I do have another question for you, which is why the Phillies? So you know, I mentioned like, you played for the Cubs, the Rays, the A's and the Twins, right. But you've been with the Phillies front office since 2017 and I know you've had opportunities otherwise in other places too, or at least I feel like I heard your name, you know, come up for like, you know, other roles. And so what's like kept you with the Phillies and how'd you end up at the Philly with the Phillies in the first place?
• 31:00
  Speaker B: You're giving me a great opportunity here to just tell you how much I love the Phillies, which is all true. But yeah, I appreciate this, this, this question. To answer the first question, why the Phillies? I, you know, I, in 2017 was, decided to retire, like was coming off of major shoulder surgery and was, you know, like 15 months into my rehab and still could, you know, Barely throw a ball 60ft and realized, okay, this is the end here, whether I like it or not. Which actually made the decision to retire pretty easy. And so I started connecting with teams that I had played for, had relationships with in the front office. And interestingly, the Phillies I had no connection with other than GM had mentioned to my agent the year prior when they were talking about potentially signing me, he said, oh, by the way, whenever Sam is done playing, have him give me a call. I would love to connect. So he sort of mentioned it as an aside, but I remembered that because I thought, well, in our world, geography is tough. There's only so many. If you're rooted in the east coast, there's only so many teams that you can work for for if you want to be connected to family and have resources around you of any capacity. So we were initially drawn by the geography. And then as I got to, I followed up on that offer to make a phone call and got to know the organization better. It did feel like a really neat opportunity to work for a really good owner and a good ownership group and work in what seemed to be a really good culture. And the Phillies at that point were sort of coming out of a rebuild where they were getting over the peak 2007 to 2011 wildly successful run and then a downswing with some plenty of failure there. And they were building back up. They're on the upswing of that rebuilding path and that was really exciting. And we were hiring a new manager, Gabe Kapler, who I history with, who was a really forward thinking, innovative guy. And it was all really exciting from a personal and professional standpoint. So I've maintained that feel, you know, seven years later. And I'm really fortunate. The culture is what it, what I thought it was going to be, just like a very outstanding group of people with, you know, a nice blend. I think oftentimes companies talk about being a family oriented company and I think that we have to be careful with that. Like, I think, you know, we, we may not love each other unconditionally like we do in a family. I think we, we care about people and what their lives are like away from the work environment. But I, I think there's also like a level of accountability that maybe just doesn't quite parallel with, with a family culture where like, you know what, there's an out, there's an expectation to perform and if you don't, you know, we may have to find other ways to solve those problems. And so, yeah, but that said, I think it's Like a nice blend of competitiveness with a real eye towards the lifestyle and wellness that I think is really important within organizations. And we've been through ups and downs and a lot has happened in those seven years. But I've always been drawn to just the level of comfort and the level of excitement I get coming to work every day. So I envisioned sort of staying here as long as I possibly could. And some of that is the stability that it affords our family. And we're formally entrenched in the suburbs of Philadelphia and love being part of the community.
• 34:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny, I think I heard, I want to say it was Ruben Amaro Jr. He was saying the other day on a podcast about how he's talked to players who were with the Phillies and laughed. And sometimes they'll come up to him and say, oh, it's not bad where I am. But the Phillies really treat players and their extended families really, really well. So that's definitely coming across with folks. One last thing, we do have some like, fun lightning round questions I want to ask you, but one last kind of serious question is what advice would you give to someone who is pursuing an MBA and is interested in kind of breaking into the business side of baseball or maybe any other sport, but they haven't worked in that world yet. So, I mean, we see this a lot like candidates coming through our website who they would love to get into this space because maybe they're interested in sports, it's their fans, whatever. But it's always seemed like there's a pretty big chasm from getting from an MBA into the world of professional sports. And so I just wonder if you have any thoughts about how one might engineer that.
• 35:53
  Speaker B: I think leveraging the network, I mean, it's just like, even though I say I'm the only one in the sports industry in my cohort, I think there are other classmates that have at least been in the sports arena, whether as an athlete themselves or as a professional. So I think it's really about taking advantage of those networks and being sort of assertive and making those connections. It's not hard to find people in the sports field that you may not know directly, but I think it's. I've struck up relationships in the last nine months, whether been on the receiving end of that sort of assertive type approach or being assertive myself and connecting with people that I think would be valuable relationships to have within the baseball industry or the sports industry or otherwise. I think it's like, like just, you know, have the confidence to reach out and know that you may not get a response all the time, but there's plenty of people in the sports world, whether it's on the business side or on the baseball operations side that I think you just have to be comfortable trying to connect with. And you'd be amazed at the kind of responses you might get. And if you just sort of shown it like showing that passion, I think is really important and it's hard to do with a LinkedIn message, but I think like, you know, the, the thing that we look for across organization is just like when people ultimately apply for positions, whether it's an internship level, full time, entry level, mid level roles, it's just like let your passion for what, what you do come through in that and whatever that looks like. Independent research, etc, I think like showing some evidence that you really care about what you're looking to get into, I think is, is a really neat thing to do and certainly catches our eyes.
• 37:46
  Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, that's great advice. All right. So as you know, I, I wanted to ask you like just some fun questions to kind of close things out here. We call these kind of lightning round questions. So kind of rapid fire. The first one, the first one is an MLB player that you looked up to while you were growing up.
• 38:03
  Speaker B: So admitted Red Sox fan as we know. And I think Wade Boggs was my, was my guy at an early age. Beautiful left handed swing, just hit the ball off the Green Monster. Seemed like every other at bat. He was really fun to watch. Nomar Garcia Parra was, you know, the next sort of wave of Red Sox players, was the guy that I really loved watching and had to another pinch me moment. When I was in the Cubs system, I was in the minor league and Nomar was a Cub, which many people may forget, but he was on a rehab assignment when I was in, you know, a ball and got to play with him for, for a day and it was, that was a pretty neat experience. That was, that was a nerve wracking game for me.
• 38:47
  Speaker A: All right, so what about once you're, you know, in the majors as a player, can you think of someone that was on a team with you that you really also kind of looked up to?
• 38:58
  Speaker B: Yeah. So when I got over it, I was traded from the Cubs to Tampa and weeks later, this was an off season trade. I think weeks later the Rays acquired both Johnny Damon and Manny Ramirez, two former Red Sox legends who were towards the tail end of their career. But I ended up playing with both of them. Manny unfortunately didn't last Very long with us that season, but played a full season with, with. With Johnny Damon. And those are two guys that I just, again, like, I was at the World series parade in 2004. I was, you know, still a Red Sox fan, like, a little interesting, but like, I had been drafted by the Cubs that year, but I still had enough Red Sox fan in me that I was like, you know what? I need to show up to this parade. It's too, too big of a moment. But yeah, so to play with those two guys and actually, like, appreciate them not just for, you know, what they were in a Red Sox uniform, but as a genuine, like, like good leaders and teammates, I think was really, really cool.
• 39:57
  Speaker A: Oh, wow. Yeah. I did not. I did not know that. That overlap. That's really great. And I obviously didn't know until we started recording today that you were. Grew up as a Red Sox fan. So. All right, what about a favorite Philly? And I know that's unfair because it's like asking you to sort of, you know, rate your. Maybe your employees kind of, but is there a Philly that you've. That you've always admired?
• 40:17
  Speaker B: This does feel like, who's your favorite child?
• 40:21
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 40:21
  Speaker B: Where I'm forced to give a non committal answer. So, I mean, I, I like anybody who helps us win that night. And I, I do like them all. I mean, it's really neat. Like, I. You do appreciate everybody for who they are and they're so. Baseball's cool. And that there's so many different backgrounds that these guys come from, you know, so it's. You learn to appreciate them for. For who they are and like, what kind of cultures they've grown up in. And so you've got guys from the Dominican in Venezuela and Puerto Rico. And now the Asian markets are. We're really tapping into. We have a. We have a Japanese player that we just signed about a month ago coming into camp with us. Not. Not of Roki Sasaki or Shohei Ohtani fame, but. But a, you know, a cool addition to our organization.
• 41:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 41:08
  Speaker B: So, you know, I think, yeah, I, I will say Phil Gosselin is. Was one of my favorites to root for when he was a Philly playing for us. He now works for us. So shout out to Phil. He was actually finishing up his degree while he was playing, so just to tie it back to education, it was pretty neat. He was like, literally, you know, hitting game winning doubles for the Phillies at night and then the next morning taking online classes, finishing up his degree from the University of Virginia. So he was, he was a neat one, an easy one to root for while he was in uniform. And now he works for us.
• 41:47
  Speaker A: All right, awesome. So, as some people know, Philadelphia has really amazing food. And I, you know, as a former Philadelphia who now lives overseas, when I get to Philly, I always am craving, you know, one of those great Philly sandwiches. So I'm going to give you a few sandwiches. I want you to just tell me which one you go for. So there's the kind of roast pork type sandwich that people like. Cheesesteaks, obviously. Chicken parm or an Italian hoagie. Any of those that you kind of go to.
• 42:15
  Speaker B: Cheesesteak. I mean, I can't do this. I can't do it too often. They don't work out enough to be able to justify that. But yeah. And Angelo's cheesesteak. So Angelo's in South Philly is like, it's good as it gets. It's become pretty well known. And if you are in the cheesesteak world in any capacity, and it's, it's as every, as good as it's cracked up to be. Pizza's really good there too. But, but the cheesesteak at Angelo's is tough to beat.
• 42:43
  Speaker A: Excellent. What about a favorite ballpark to see a game in? And let's exclude Citizens bank park. Cause you're there all the time.
• 42:49
  Speaker B: But yeah, I mean, I had the great fortune of like, you know, growing up an hour and change from Fenway. So it's hard for me not to say Fenway. And as a fan of the game and fan of the history of the game, it's hard for me not to appreciate Fenway. I also came up through the Cubs organization and got to play, you know, my very first major league game at Wrigley Field. And so I think those two are probably tied at the top for me. And they're just in it. They're in a class of their own. They're, they're, you know, hundred year old ballparks that like, nobody else comes close to matching that history and that tradition and the uniqueness of those parks. It's like, I just think, I think that's. They're two shrines that are just. We're lucky to have remaining in our game.
• 43:32
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. So it's funny, Clear Admit organized a fair for prospective MBA students last spring, and it was in Chicago. We had a big meeting there and we had, you know, like 20 of the top MBA programs in the world doing this fair. And I had to catch a flight the next day. And I just kind of last minute was like, oh, what am I going to do?
• 43:50
  Speaker B: I have.
• 43:50
  Speaker A: I had kind of like the whole day because it was a night flight back to Europe and I'm like, I wonder if the Cubs are at home. I've never been to a game at Wrigley. And so I look online and sure enough, they had a day game home. I went on like StubHub and I got a ticket. I mean, all of like 16 bucks, you know, and it was a good seat, too. But I, you know, last minute kind of thing. And I get there and Paul Skeens was pitching for the, for the Pirates, one of his early starts. And I think he struck out like the first seven or more players in a row to start that game. And then he ended up striking out a whole bunch before leaving because he was probably on a pitch count of some kind. But that was my first Wrigley experience. And I totally hear you. I mean, what a beautiful stadium. Just amazing. And Fenway, too, you can't. Yeah. In fact, Clear admits doing our the same fair again this year, and it's in Boston in May. And I already checked. I think the Sox are in town, so I'm going to try to get over to Fenway to see a game during that as well.
• 44:43
  Speaker B: But those are two I already checked. That seems like you've done. You may have. Yeah. It may be the other way around to schedule it around the home games. I don't blame you. Yeah, those are must see places, definitely.
• 44:54
  Speaker A: All right, last one. And this one's kind of, you know, right down the middle of the plate here. Best mascot in all of professional sports.
• 45:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's no offense to Wally or whatever the Red Sox mascot is. It's fanatic in a landslide. We're really fortunate to have him. He's a beaut. You know, the man behind the uniform is really such a cool guy, too. So it's like fun to see Clark Kent out of uniform. And he's a neat guy to hang out with and high energy and been doing this for a long time, too. So, you know, his, the energy and the commitment to being the best entertainer in professional sports on a nightly basis is pretty, pretty cool. But yeah, he's. He's as good as they come. And you know, my kids have now are now old enough not to be petrified by him, and now they love him and so that's extra neat. And yeah, I think, gosh, he's a world traveler these days. He's like, you know, as big a show as Bryce Harper is sometimes. So that's. And the love. The marriage between Bryce Harper and Fanatic is pretty.
• 46:07
  Speaker A: It's amazing.
• 46:08
  Speaker B: Pretty spectacular, too. Yeah.
• 46:09
  Speaker A: From a marketing standpoint, it's fantastic. And, yeah, I will say the Fnatic was kind of the gateway for my kids to get them to the park. Like, when we do go to the United States, like, I always. If the Phillies are playing, I try to get them to a game. And for a while it was like, oh, you know, you might see the Philly Fanatic. And they were. That was like, the draw for them. So we'd spend most of the time wandering around, you know, the stands or where the concessions are, looking for where he might be at any given moment so they could catch their glimpse. But, yeah, we went to London last year and saw the Phillies play the Mets, and he was there, too. So, yeah, no great mascot. I stand by that. Even though I'm completely biased as a Phillies fan. I just have never seen a mascot with that level of appeal and brand. From a business standpoint, I mean, there's nothing even close. I do appreciate, Sam, you like going through all these fun questions and all the serious stuff, too. And I will say in the couple of conversations we've had leading up to this, I really admire what you're doing in terms of juggling the emba. I mean, I know I went to Wharton and the executive MBA program is the same program, and you're getting the same degree, which means you're getting all that homework and all the work. I mean, it's really a lot. So I'm impressed that you're doing that while working, and I really appreciate you making time for this. I mean, this is you. Obviously, another thing on your list you gotta tick off. So it's really great that you're able to stop by the show and join us. I really appreciate it.
• 47:34
  Speaker B: No, I'm happy to do it. I appreciate you having me, Graham. It's definitely worth carving out some time for. I really appreciate what you do, and I know it's a really helpful resource for a lot of people. So I'm happy to help and maybe touch a slightly different topic for once and one that I know that you care about. So it's been cool to connect.
• 47:53
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right, well, really appreciate it. Thanks, everyone, for joining us today. Stay tuned for our regular weekly episodes, and please remember to rate and review. View the show wherever you listen.