Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / How Lil Ahenkan (aka Flex Mami) built her empire, Flex Factory, through deep conversations talking about sex, life and everything in between

Transcript

How Lil Ahenkan (aka Flex Mami) built her empire, Flex Factory, through deep conversations talking about sex, life and everything in between · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Lil Ahenken for Female Startup Club.
• 0:13
  Hey everyone, it's me, Dune, your host and hype girl. It has been a hot minute, but I am back in action after two weeks of not recording any episodes for the first time in 18 months. And holy frickin' moly. But I am so proud to be bringing you this episode. It is with a friend of mine who you have probably seen on the likes of Instagram doing her super cool things. Lil is Australia's favorite woman. Truly.
• 0:43
  It's a big call, I know, but she's definitely one of mine and I know a lot of folks who agree with me. My bet is she's about to become one of yours.
• 0:54
  She's a DJ, she's a podcaster, she's a best-selling author, she's a DIY guru, and she's a hilarious Instagrammer as well as entrepreneur. And a damn good one at that. So in this episode, let us take you behind the scenes into her story. But first, and if you haven't been blessed with her content on Instagram so far, just pop on over.
• 1:18
  Have a quick peek, have a lull, do some critical thinking, and then come back here to listen to how she's built her colorful world and business, Flex Factory.
• 1:31
  Now, while I've got you here, let me tell you about this other really cool thing because it's pretty special and I'm like really, really excited about it. And every single person listening here will either be interested in entering or I'm sure will know someone who will benefit from it. So as you know, in every episode at the very end, I ask our guests what they would do with a cheeky $1,000 to spend in the biz, no strings attached.
• 2:01
  And we get some great answers. But the thing is, I've had a secret agenda all along.
• 2:09
  My mission with Female Startup Club has always been to positively impact women in biz. And that could mean many different things, right? Like putting a smile on someone's face one day, giving a hit of inspo when you're having a shitty afternoon and you need to know you're not alone in this. It could be creating founder stories like this with insights and tactical learnings you can implement into your own business.
• 2:34
  And so I got to thinking about ways to generate some excitement around FSC and what would be useful truly to a small business owner like me and you. And it kind of hit me, money.
• 2:49
  Money helps. Imagine receiving $1,000 in cash with no strings attached to spend in your biz. So you probably know what I'm going to say next and you are right, but let me spell it out for you. We are kicking off a monthly cash giveaway of $1,000 to small business owners.
• 3:09
  This month we've partnered with our pals at Flowium. They're the best email marketing agency for e-commerce owners, and I also recommend checking them out. But with a huge thanks to them, we are able to kick this thing off and give away cash. I just can't tell you how excited I am. By the time you hear this, it'll already be alive. So to get amongst it, go to femalestartupclub.com forward slash one triple zero.
• 3:37
  hyphen cash, hyphen giveaway, or find the link in my bio, find it in FSC's bio, or find it in the show notes, whatever you need to do, but go to that URL and follow the prompts. And I want to give you a super hot tip.
• 3:52
  The more people you refer to Female Startup Club's email list, the more you exponentially increase your chances at winning. So get yourself a tea, coffee, wine, something, and your contact book of entrepreneurs and get referring. You deserve $1,000 of no-strings-attached money to spend in your business. Let's get into this episode. This is Lil for Female Startup Club.
• 4:22
  Lil, oh my God. Hi. Welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. I feel so at home. I feel like you're welcoming me to my own room. I am so excited for us. I feel like this potty has been a while in the making, i.e. me being like, when are you coming on the show? And me being like, I don't think I'm ready yet.
• 4:46
  Yeah, I know. What is that all about? I'm always like, you're ready. You're ready. You're ready. You're coming. Do you know what it is? I can tell you what that's about in a very concise way. I am somebody who's really, really hyper aware of giving as much value as I'm extracting.
• 5:03
  So I don't like to agree to things unless I can guarantee that I'm adding as much value as I think the experience is giving me. And so I just felt as though I wasn't as far in my business journey with enough, you know, actionable and replicable wins that I was like, I don't know if I'm ready to give anybody any insight that wasn't completely a fluke. But now I am.
• 5:25
  You know what you sound like, though? That sounds like the woman who's like, I'm not 100% prepared to apply for this role versus the guy who's like 60% there. 100%? Yeah, I'm going to apply for the role.
• 5:36
  You just did that. Literally. You were like, I need to be 100% there to get on the show. Even so, because I just respect people's time too much. And I also know what I expect from others. And I'm like, don't waste my time. Come here with something that I can use. Don't use this as an opportunity to circle jerk or for a little ego boost. But yeah, my ego is huge. So I think I just learned how to...
• 6:00
  What I just said was like learned bad behavior because old Lou had been like, get me on there. I've got something to say.
• 6:09
  Oh my gosh, well, I am so stoked that you're here. I'm so stoked to get into your story and how you've been building Flex Factory, which is obviously just so cool and you know how much I love it. You are a woman of many talents. So I want to talk about a few things before we get started. For those who don't know you, you are a podcaster, an author, a model, a reality TV star, a DIY homemaker. You are an entrepreneur. You're a woman.
• 6:37
  How would you actually describe yourself and what's your own personal elevator pitch when someone asks you what you do? It's funny because I switch out what I say I do depending on the context of the conversation or the situation I'm in.
• 6:56
  So if I'm in kind of like a creative space, I'll just stick with DJ and MTV presenter because it's enough context that that makes sense. But then if I'm in a more entrepreneurial space, I'll talk about the companies. If I'm meeting someone in, you know, a far older demographic, I'll just go with, you know, I run a business. It's obnoxious to go through the whole, the whole list of slashes and it doesn't, it just never goes well. It sounds like I'm gloating. It sounds like I'm.
• 7:25
  I don't know. It's not received as intended as well. I think when I go through everything I do, it sounds as though I do a lot of things poorly. When in reality, I am very good at all the things I do. I just don't think it comes across well when I elevate a picture.
• 7:40
  So I try not to. I'm like, what is the context? What's the elevator pitch for today then? It's all of those things. I'm going to go through every single list. Hi, my name is Lil, also known as Flex. I do all of these great things. Like I'm a DJ and a TV presenter. I own two companies. I'm a podcast. I'm a bestselling author. I'm a very good marketer.
• 8:03
  Oh, my God. You are. That's exactly what you are. You're a great marketer. Holy gosh. You know, when I was reading about you, I was thinking to myself, and I've been thinking about this a lot recently because I've been working on the intro for my book that's coming out. Yay. Side note. Yay. But I was thinking about, like,
• 8:23
  why people are the way that they are and like what it is about you in terms of childhood or the way that your parents have raised you or moments in your life that have shaped you to be the way that you are. And I was thinking, why are you the way that you are? Why are you so ambitious and sparkly and driven and, you know, all these amazing things? What do you think it is about you?
• 8:48
  Multi-pronged. The most obvious one that comes to mind is growing up in a single parent household and being made aware quite early on the value of money, how I wasn't going to do certain things because I didn't have any, the kind of opportunities I wasn't going to be able to take full advantage of because of my environment or how I was raised or the resources we had or
• 9:10
  that we didn't benefit from nepotism. I just think it was a bit too real for me early on. And I think that in contrast to the fact that my family really instilled a lot of
• 9:22
  ego in me. They would call me princess and boss and really, I just felt a lot of respect in my household. I felt really special. I felt like I was one of a kind. My family always went out of their way to make me feel validated and appreciated. And I mean, in some extreme ways, in some simple ways, like I remember when my mom, I was complaining about my teeth. For those who can't see me, I have a huge gap in my front tooth, which I love now, but I obviously hated when I was
• 9:52
  a child and a teenager and I would complain all the time to my mom and she'd be like no it's so pretty don't you know that in Africa it's a sign of wealth and in Ghana people would die for that and I'd be like yeah okay whatever and so one day she came home from the dentist and she got a gap shaved in front of her teeth and I'd be like why would you do that oh
• 10:11
  And she was like, it wasn't even about you. Like, I just think it's pretty and you didn't believe me. That's not where I was expecting this to go. Wow. Imagine being raised in that environment where it's one thing for your mom to be like, you know, you are special. You are great. I really like and respect you.
• 10:27
  And then to show you that way in a very tangible way that cannot be argued with. It's just like, of course I feel this way. My mom used to say things like, if you go to school and people bully you, number one, they're jealous. Number two, you tell them that you're my daughter. As if that means anything to a bully. But I believed her because she believed her.
• 10:48
  Oh my God, that's amazing. So the combination of those things kind of gave me this, this approach to life that makes me feel quite invincible, but also quite entitled to living the life I want to. And as someone who grew up quite imaginative, I think the depth of where I thought I could go was always quite far. I just don't ever think I had the skills or the resources to back up what I knew so well. So all those things made me who I am, gave me the gumption of,
• 11:18
  The gumption, great word. My mum was a single mum and I was raised by her. And I just think there's so much like it's just so special to have like this parent that really is like your, I don't know, I guess you do feel...
• 11:34
  You get it channeled from one source and it's really bloody good. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So this is a show about business. Let's start moving towards the story. How does this get started? When did Flex Factory become an idea in your head? Can you paint the picture of what was happening in your life, what your presence looked like online at that point and how it started?
• 12:02
  Yes. So this was about three years ago, 2018, 2017 ish. And at this time in my career, I was definitely still a full time DJ. I was touring. I was playing festivals and parties. And at that point, I was still an MTV presenter.
• 12:18
  And I guess I was in this weird limbo where I just assumed that my audience would be bigger. I probably only had about 40,000 followers or something. I assumed my audience would be bigger because of the kind of opportunities that I was getting and the way that I was able to make a lot of money and be in esteemed places. And so I was thinking about how...
• 12:43
  this, a career, whatever it is, just couldn't last forever. And I really wanted to transition into something a little bit more sustainable in the sense of like, can this withstand hype and trend? And so at the time, I remember I was having this thought that because influencing had become a bit of a thing, everybody on the internet with a bit of a profile who created content was being regarded as an influencer.
• 13:09
  And I really wanted to create some differentiation between me and traditional influencers because I was not one. At the time, you have to remember, it was big on bikinis, flat lays, what I eat in a day, inspirational quotes. And for me, I don't like to compete where I don't compare. And there was a very specific look for an influencer that I didn't have. And so I was like, I need to make my own lane. I need to do something completely different. So I'm not being measured against people that I cannot compete with.
• 13:37
  So at the time, and I've always been the type of person who likes to have big conversations. I like to ask people hypothetical questions. I'm really interested in the way that people think, how they rationalize, how they justify and what's informing them to do so.
• 13:51
  And at that point in time, Instagram had just released a question function. And in my head, I thought this is a really easy way to get some quick engagement on my story. And I didn't have to worry about doing tutorials and outfit of the days and things like that. And so I would ask a question every day and I would share the responses I got and it would start this huge dialogue. And it was so cool to me because I noticed what I had that my other peers didn't have was an audience that humanized them.
• 14:20
  I wasn't just a body and entertainment. I was a person with thoughts and I was a facilitator of something far bigger than this discussion. I was like helping people build their understanding of the world. And it was also very exciting to me. And it became my signature. And so basically because I was a DJ, there was an expectation that I'd do merch work.
• 14:41
  And in my head, I was like, I don't want to sell a t-shirt and a hoodie. It's just not that exciting to me. And so I remember I was talking to my soulmate, best friend, who is now my business partner. And she had given me this idea of like, you know, why don't you do something with the questions? Yeah.
• 14:58
  And I was like, like what? And she's like, I don't know, like a PDF, like a PDF merch. And I was like, no, if I'm going to do merch, I want it to be exciting. Like I'd rather it be, I don't know, like a card game. And she's like, how are you going to make a card game? I was like, I don't know. But I would rather do that than sell a T-shirt. And so I messaged a good friend of mine, Bianca, and I asked her if she would illustrate a random card game for me. And I took the questions that I had asked her
• 15:26
  previously and I, you know, made a few more. And she was like, yeah, absolutely. This is like a fun activity. And so we printed a hundred of this card game at a local printer. And it was the most tedious process ever because we would get the cards sent to us in a stack of the same question. And so we would have to like collate all 50 of the questions ourselves and then package them. It was just not fun. But once I got the cards, I was like, wait, how do I sell them?
• 15:55
  So we made this random big cartel and I hadn't even considered, you know, even shipping them out. But Grace was like, I will help you. Like, this is fun. I will help you do this. We spend every day together anyway. Why not? And so we had put the cart in a big cartel and they had sold out in like 10 minutes. Like real, like it was instant. Everyone's like, I love these questions. I love these cart games. Wait, what's big cartel? You don't know what big cartel is? What's that? What do you mean? Oh, big cartel is like Shopify, but not as good.
• 16:26
  Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. It's another place to sell stuff. It's like Squarespace, like Wix, but it's, I think it was free. That's why I used it. And so we had just put the games up. I think we were selling them for $10 or something at that time. It wasn't even to make a profit. It was like an exercise to see if I could, because what I was doing was asking for a bit much. I wasn't just the transaction of selling a t-shirt. It's like, well, that has function. It has a purpose. It
• 16:55
  as more than an aesthetic item. But with the cards, I was thinking, who am I to ask somebody to spend their money on questions on cardboard? Me, apparently, because it sold out instantly. And so Grace and I would sit on my couch and we would put the cards in a little foil box
• 17:12
  this cute foil seal packet. And then we would buy envelopes and put stamps on the envelope. It was just the worst. And I, and Grace had asked me, you know, are you going to sell them again? And I was like, no, no, I'm a DJ. I'm meant to be touring the world. I'm not going to sit here on my couch and put cards into an envelope and then put a stamp on it and then go to the post office and deal with posted issues. I don't want to do that. And she was kind of like, I think you should try. Like, I think you should just do it one more time and see if people like it.
• 17:42
  And I was like, no, I'm not doing it. I can't be bothered. But then what ended up happening is that a bunch of my audience who had missed out was like, well, when's the next drop? And I was like, there is no drop. And it went from really excited, like, where's next drop? To vicious. This is so selfish. Why wouldn't you release more? So many of your fans want these cards. I was like, okay.
• 18:04
  Okay. Rude. So then again, we go and print some more cards. And if you can imagine, listen to the people, listen to the people. If you can imagine with an order quantity so low, it was so expensive to produce these cards. We weren't making a profit. We were spending more money. It was like free shipping as well. So we were spending money and producing them, shipping them, not making a profit. It was so tedious because I wasn't using my business acumen for this. This felt like
• 18:31
  Almost like a exercise in validation. Do I really have as strong of a connection with my audience as I think I do? And I did. And that was enough for me. I didn't need anything else from that interaction. So we ordered some more cards. I think this time it was about 200. They sold out in a day. Great. Ordered about 500 more. Again, they sold out in about maybe three or four days. And then it became clear that this was a thing that was happening.
• 18:55
  And with every drop, I had convinced myself that I wasn't going to do this thing because it just didn't feel right. I was on a path. I'm like, I am an entertainer. I am a DJ. I'm a TV presenter. I don't sell cards. What is that? I'm not a card saleswoman. And I just didn't feel like...
• 19:14
  I guess for so much of what I had done previously, it felt like it had so much intention or that I had a almost like laser focus. I had willed it to be true because I wanted it so badly. This was such a random thing that it had felt like such a throwaway exercise that I wasn't ready to put any effort into it. And so Grace was really the one who was like, I will I'll handle it. Like pay me an hourly wage and I will pack it. I will deal with custom service. I will do all the things you don't want to do because I really think this could be something.
• 19:44
  And so we did that for about she was your hype girl. Honestly, she really was. And to me, I think my perspective with that was I I don't struggle with not feeling capable. I feel so capable. My only issue is that I want to do everything and I know I can. So with this, I was like, I've already got the validation from it. I know what it can be done. Let me pause, think about something I actually want to do and then I'll do it.
• 20:09
  And she was like, I think this is what you actually want to do. And she said, I don't think you like the fact that you didn't work very hard for it. I think you're fighting against this fact that it was simple and easy. And it's true because my therapist would say the same thing. You like the struggle. You like to break your back a little bit so everyone can see how hard you worked and that you suffered for it. And this just felt too easy.
• 20:34
  So that's how it began. It began as merch. And then and then it transitioned from, well, how do we turn this from merch to a real business? And the challenges I didn't consider is that when making it as merch, there was no consideration behind. Well, what are these? What is a conversation card game to somebody who has no idea what that is? I don't know.
• 20:54
  My face was on the packet because it was merch for me. Now that it was reaching different audiences, what is the relevance of my face on this packet? Get my face off this packet. And then also the name. I think I have one right here actually of your original ones. See, like it makes sense as merch, but it's like, this is a game that asks you to, you know, dig deep and unpack what you think. Yeah.
• 21:19
  like move this space and then we were thinking okay well is this just the one card game people were requesting more questions and I was like I don't have any more that was not the plan you've worked through all the questions already damn I don't have any more questions and so all this consideration well do we make more games are we just selling card games what else will we do do we need a better website it's kind of like you have to think about
• 21:44
  the business plan of like, okay, what does this actually look like if we're going to take this seriously now and actually do this in a real way? Exactly. And the shortcut with having an established audience is that you don't have to think about your USP or even the digital marketing funnel, because it was all there on Instagram. I had my audience, we had awareness, exposure, consideration, conversion all in one place, and they were gagging for it. So suddenly when it was reaching a new audience, I had to consider...
• 22:13
  Well, is there even an interest outside of people who like me and like what I speak about and what I do? And how can I convince or convey what this actually is to someone who doesn't even know that they need it? Like, it's not comparable. It's not. It's a very low awareness product. And so the transition into merch to business was so confusing because everything...
• 22:34
  I guess I went from using this product as a way to validate this relationship with my audience versus using my skills to validate this product. And that was two different things. One was like, does my audience like me or is this product good? Right. And so how did you like take that transition? Yeah.
• 22:56
  The first thing I had to do was objective thinking, which is really hard to do when you commodify yourself, because up until that point in business, the only thinking that I had to do in regards to my business was whether I liked it, whether it reflected me, whether I felt comfortable with it. Suddenly having to step away from me as the business and say, what is the relevance? How do I sell this to a person? And it wasn't that difficult. I think what I just struggle with now is the fact that very few people think intentionally intentionally.
• 23:23
  Period. So asking someone to think intentionally about the conversations they're having, why they're having them, what they think feels like work. It feels hard. It doesn't feel simple or carefree. And that's not the energy I wanted. Also, I think the fact that I called it a game, people are under the impression that there should be a winner and a loser. And I was like, oh, no.
• 23:45
  It's just you play. That's an interesting insight. All of these small things that I'm still dealing with now because I'm like, wait, that's a good thing to think about. So the main thing I did was, well, the first thing I had to do was create an actual business structure around the product. The product couldn't just exist on its own. So we moved the Reflex game. That's what it was called, Reflex, because you answer on Reflex. And then we moved it to a website called Flex Factory in which we could talk about our values, which is creating...
• 24:14
  connection through conversation and then suddenly became like a bigger picture thing. And that was really cool until people were like, can we have more cards and more questions? And suddenly we had to think about the money aspect. Like, what does this actually cost us to produce this game in a way that's not just like just gnawing at our bottom line? And that was really hard to do because we wanted to produce the game locally. We didn't want to produce it overseas only because it was just another thing to explain to a customer.
• 24:41
  Not only are we explaining what the game is, why you need it, where to play it, now we've got to explain why we didn't make it locally. No, we'll make it locally, which made it very expensive. It still is expensive, but that's fine. The second thing we had to figure out was how do we separate this from me as a brand personally, which you can never really do. I think any brand I even wear on a daily basis is now unduly tied to me. So the goal there was just introducing more faces, more voices, more conversation topics.
• 25:10
  And the third thing is how do we even know if this product is viable? You know, like it's one thing to keep selling to my audience, but like, is it of interest outside of the audience? And so we spent a lot of the first year. Right. And when you have to pay to acquire, does it make sense? Exactly. So the first year we didn't do any paid digital marketing. We really relied on organic marketing.
• 25:32
  And I feel as though, because at that time in particular, my career was still on the up and up. It was very easy to use my preexisting media opportunities as a new way to talk about the product. So if I'd be talking to Vogue, I'd be like, what are you working on? Well, funny you ask. I've got this whole conversation card game. It's blah, blah, blah. Then I would use that information and clip it, put it on Instagram. And that would become also a tool for credibility. And that was an awesome thing to do. So the first year was just like,
• 26:01
  trying to find a way to leverage all the current PR and marketing I had coming in or the current PR and marketing I had access to and just shifting the conversation to reflex. And what I found easy was that like I had already spent the last year playing the game to my audience just without the physical cards. So I just needed to keep on doing that and keep encouraging them to share to their audiences and,
• 26:23
  And they did because I think what I recognized with the conversations I was starting, people love this idea of being able to observe and not participate. And so they would share the question cards to their friends, get answers. Where did you get this from? How can I play it? Who's this girl? Why is she making the game? And so it just became this circular marketing exercise. The more I just maintained my profile, the more I talked about the game, the greater audience share we'd have just by existing.
• 26:50
  And so in the first year, I know we should be talk numbers. So in the first year we made about 800,000. Well, we didn't make we did $800,000 worth of sales. And to us, that was like, whoa, that's so crazy, because this is meant to be just a throwaway activity. And it was then we were kind of like, so what is crazy, by the way?
• 27:10
  Yeah. Well, so what is, what are we doing? What is this? Like, how are we scaling it? Are we not scaling it? Are we selling card games now? Year two, we fucked it. That's when we really fucked it. So we were still at this point where we were kind of like, we want to live life, Grace and I. We were like, we're still living life. We've still got other priorities. Yeah.
• 27:33
  Where like, you know, Grace was working at a startup and then she quit. And then that was meant to be her eat, pray, love year of just doing things she liked. And then now we're doing another job. And I guess we were kind of, it felt good. But like, yeah, we've done it. We've, we're selling the game. Like, so once we sell it, let's just take a bit of a break. And so we did. And we didn't do anything for the business for like, I don't know, four months. Good time just went.
• 27:57
  And then we had this proactive meeting and we said, how are we going to run this business in a way that actually works for us? Because clearly we're both having hesitations with doing what's required. And so we said, let's work with a 3PL. Let's work with an external warehousing company. Let's get them to dispatch all our products. And then we can just, you know, do what we do best, which is market the product. And so long story short, I,
• 28:24
  Somewhere between producing the game and working with this 3PL, I started making these, like, I call them rap t-shirts. And essentially they're these like vintage t-shirts with these obnoxious, like prints of like celebrities and rappers. And they were super cool. And so people were like, can we buy these t-shirts? And before I considered the legal implications of selling those t-shirts that I didn't have copyrighted access to...
• 28:47
  I didn't have the IP of, we were selling so many of these bloody t-shirts and it was just like, we were making bank. And then, so the person who sold us the t-shirts had been on our website and said, Hey, we noticed that you sell other products. Do you want us to manage the shipping of these other products for you? Cause they were looking for extra business and we were looking for ease. So we said, Hey, that's a great idea. You can also ship out our cards for us. Kill two birds with one stone. It'll be fantastic.
• 29:18
  Now, I will say I didn't like the vibe of this 3PL, but that didn't seem like a good enough reason to not accept the help when the help was given, I guess. And so we moved all of our products, tens of thousands of dollars worth of stock to this random warehouse in Melbourne that we had never seen before. We didn't vet it. We didn't check it. We didn't do anything. We're just like, how bad could it be? You know, it'll be fine.
• 29:41
  So the first couple of months, it was fine. Of course, there were growing pains with communication, growing pains with just like having to manage the business with external people. Grace and I, best friends, soulmates, we were also next door neighbours. So a lot of the business was run in like an ad hoc way. But like working with these people, we were like, oh, fuck, we need to communicate what our standards are for shipping and, you know, what our customer service standards are and how long until...
• 30:10
  order processing to dispatch and all of these things. And suddenly we were having to manage people, which we just didn't consider. We thought it'd be like, all good. And so issue number one is that the cost, what they were charging to ship out our order was just like, it just kept getting higher and higher.
• 30:29
  First, it was something like $6 to ship out an order. Then 50 cents if you want to add a sticker. Another 50 cents if you want to add a comp card. If you want to send it on weekends, it's going to be this price. If you want it dispatched within 24 hours, it's going to be this price. And before you know it, the cost of shipping out the product was equal to the cost of making the product. And we're like, wait a second.
• 30:48
  And then the actual cost of like, we were offering free shipping as well. Just all these things we couldn't afford to do because we weren't running the business in a smart way. We were just playing around. We had money to burn. Oh, so we thought. So that was strike number one. You know, it just like they couldn't give us a reasonable and consistent rate for what it would actually cost us. And then it turned to if you do between zero to 200 orders a day, it'll cost you this much.
• 31:15
  If you do between 200 daughters do this and short, fine. But the reason why we started working with them was because it was going to be relaxed and ad hoc. And it just didn't turn out that way. Second strike was that they just had no care with like storing out things and packing out things. So they wouldn't do a stock take. They wouldn't show us the condition in which our,
• 31:34
  our product was being stored. It would arrive to customers crushed. They weren't using the pretty packaging. We had spent, you know, $6 per box making. They just were really flippant. And that was really frustrating because as you can imagine, a lot of our audience were fans of mine who were buying from me because they wanted the flair and the attention to detail and the creativity and they wanted that experience extended to the customer journey and they weren't getting that.
• 32:00
  And we didn't know until months later when we were kind of like, wait, what's going on here? Like, why am I seeing somebody open up a package in a random plain white satchel? This is not the vibe. We have red and white checkered pizza boxes that the cards go in. Where are they? Oh, we don't know what those are. Maybe we've sold out of them. Order some more stock. But what do you mean?
• 32:21
  Anyway, so that was terrible. And then the third strike with them is that they kept over promising and under delivering. So like we'll ship out your orders in this time. Didn't do it. If we make any mistakes, we'll handle that cost. Didn't do it. Anyway, that was terrible. But then Grace and I were still in that weird period of being like, well, if they have all our stock, so probably like.
• 32:43
  I don't know, maybe like 10 to 15,000 units of the game. They had everything we sold. And at this point we also had homewares and we had all this other stuff that was just with them. So even the cost to get the stuff back to Sydney to stock it where our homes may be. So suddenly we had to make a decision. Are we running this business or do we just happen to have a business? And so we decided, fine, we'll run the business properly. So we ended up getting a space for it.
• 33:10
  We decided to actually have defined roles in the business, budgeting, accounting, cost cutting, expenses, proper operations role, which we assumed would be far harder than, you know, the half-assing we were doing. It wasn't. It really wasn't. So, yeah, it just was a lot. I felt like it just, everything snowballed. I went from wanting to make merch and now I was running a business. And I don't think I realized how poorly we were running the business because of the sales that we were making.
• 33:39
  So I was like, what do you mean? There's a million dollar business. But in reality, it's like, well, your customers aren't getting a million dollar experience, babe. It's not feeling premium. It's not feeling fun. So it's nice to be working on the business every day, chipping away at it, doing it intentionally because it makes the biggest difference. Like, yeah.
• 34:01
  I'm just like, wow, I really do have the source. Like I have the capacity to run a really great business that's like intentional and, and fits a purpose. I just need to put my head down. I have a few questions. The first and foremost important is, did you get sued from creating those t-shirts?
• 34:21
  Oh, thank God. We definitely stopped before that would happen. Yeah, we were kind of like, because we were thinking about it. And the reason why we were like, this will be fine is because we have, we're looking at this brand called Culture Kings and they're like an Australian retailer. And we're like, there is no way they have creative licenses to be selling all of these t-shirts with celebrities emblazoned all over them. Like there's no way they have, like there must be some kind of loophole.
• 34:49
  Anyway, it would literally keep me up at night making these T-shirts. I'm like, I don't. I think because also it's like I am a public seeker. So it's like they know who made these T-shirts. This wasn't incognito. This wasn't behind the scenes. And it all just went back to doing things intentionally. And, like, the moment we got a lawyer, I was like, mm-hmm.
• 35:09
  we can afford to run this business properly. And this is not, this is not proper. And I think for us, like it all came back down to the fact that what is the objective with this? This is not where the connections that we're facilitating, where the conversations are facilitating. This is just a moneymaker and it's soulless and it's illegal.
• 35:29
  And even now, like every other week, Culture Kings is getting sued by someone. They just got sued by Mike Tyson because they keep making these celebrity T-shirts and not getting permission. And look, I don't have Culture Kings money to be sued and come out unscathed. So it was a very rookie idea, but I was also young.
• 35:51
  Yeah. And I mean, you figured it out. So good one. Back to the cards though. So in the second year, you figured things out. You went through this huge rollercoaster journey of a, figuring out whether you wanted to do that, what kind of business you wanted to run and, you know, the whole 3PL thing. What happens in, is this year three now? Like, are we talking about year three or is this year four that we're up to today?
• 36:17
  Last year, 3PL thing was start of last year that we were like not doing this anymore. So this year is like year three, four.
• 36:27
  Three slash four. And what's the vibe now? The vibe now is well oiled machine. Everything, single thing is intentional. We don't make a decision unless it's backed up by the financials, backed up by a clear marketing strategy. It's informed by what our customers actually want and ask for, not what I think is cute. Yeah.
• 36:47
  We still run the business in quite an intuitive way. Like we're definitely out here doing tarot, checking for vibes, being like, do we trust this person's vibes? That still is still a big part of the way the business functions. But these days we're always like, are the numbers reflecting our effort? Are the numbers reflecting our decisions? If not, we're not doing it properly.
• 37:08
  And initially I thought that was a really stringent and restrictive way to run the business. I was like, how can I just be my full creative self if I have to think about numbers? But now I see what I like is like a really clear boundary or really clear, almost like restriction. So if I know I'm limited by the amount of money we have, limited by the amount of drops we do a year, then within that perimeter, I can make the best creative decisions, knowing exactly what we have, what we don't have, what we need, what we don't need, et cetera.
• 37:38
  Mm-hmm. And for you with all of that in mind, and like, you know, we talked earlier about you needing to grow outside of your audience and essentially scale the business, where is the growth coming from now? And what's critical for you guys to allocate budget towards when it's, if, and you know, things like paid social influences, content creation, Google ads, et cetera, what's kind of like driving that growth outside of your audience?
• 38:05
  organic social media marketing, just the content that we keep making that goes viral on TikTok, viral on Instagram Reels, that stuff is really driving it. And it pains me to say, because we were spending so much, not so much, but relatively a lot of money using a Facebook ads specialist. And again, people we trusted who we assumed had more
• 38:32
  insight than we did when in reality it's like I was preparing for iOS 14 before they were so I'm like hold on who that's a lot of money to be going to you so yeah I swear like the majority of I would say 80% of our sales comes from organic marketing TikTok Instagram gifting influencers we only recently started paid
• 38:55
  influencer marketing. And even then it's like, this isn't it. This is not working. This is not working for us. Let's just go back to what we know. We love email marketing. We love SMS marketing. But that's I would say that's been one of our biggest strategies. Like how do we build out internal lists and speak to our customers directly as many times as we need to for the message to get across?
• 39:17
  I think for a little while there, I was so preoccupied with like, well, how do we make the best content? So a random person likes us. It's like, no, I need my lead generation tools so I can speak to you in this organized environment. So you can get the message as intended when I want to tell it to you, as opposed to when the algorithm blesses me with your view.
• 39:35
  Totally, totally. 100%. And I also think it's like for you with your clear, you know, audience that is highly engaged, people want to hear directly from you a lot. I imagine like people, I imagine of like, Hey, how can I subscribe to more content? Absolutely. How can I hear from her on another channel? What's she doing over there or something that she's part of on another channel? Totally.
• 40:02
  Being where you are now, having gone through the ups and downs of this thing that was just a merch thing that turned into a business that turned into a bloody empire. What is your advice to other entrepreneurs who might not have it all figured out just yet?
• 40:19
  It's tricky because I feel as though I was given a huge shortcut, which wasn't necessarily a shortcut. I really worked for my audience and I built the audience as intended. But I think, you know, with the way that we're socialized to express our business wins and losses, people are...
• 40:35
  expecting a business experience probably isn't going to happen for them. Like the stats don't lie. Your business probably won't do very well. So the least you could do is start out being as intentional as possible. I think when people first start their businesses, they want to do it in a vacuum. They want to pretend that they won't be affected by...
• 40:52
  the external factors outside that also dictate whether or not this business will be a success. So they want to keep it hidden until launch. They don't want to tell anyone they don't want to let's know you need to be getting feedback and validating your ideas. Quick, smart. Like it's just so crazy to me how people can assume, especially when they're making products and they aren't their own target demographic. What do you know about product you're selling? Like, yeah, you've got some ideas, but you need to understand if there's even a need for this.
• 41:19
  I just feel like now more than ever, it's so expensive to reach your audience. Like, I don't think people understand how much it can cost you to reach someone, to just even look at your product, let alone buy it. That most, I don't want to say most, but a lot of the ideas that people have just aren't viable for more reasons than they can even consider. Yeah.
• 41:39
  Like the fact that you can't afford to actually profit of what you're doing or there's no market for all the markets to saturate it. Like if we see one more Australian making a common bikini brand from Bali, not using not not even creating for plus sizes, not even creating for smaller busts, bigger busts like.
• 41:58
  We don't need more stuff. So if you're going to do something, at least be solving a problem. At the very least, solve a problem. Make sure there's a need. And if you can't really prove to someone why there's a need for your product, then there probably isn't one. And you should bow out gracefully until a better idea comes to you. I think that...
• 42:18
  Though you should be mindful of how many of your ideas you share before you've even created the idea, I think that it is worthwhile going to those who have done it before and studying them. I just feel like it's an expertise for a reason. It's a skill for a reason. It's a skill for a reason.
• 42:36
  Not everybody is fit to run a business. Just because you're creative doesn't mean you can run a business. Just because you're good at financials doesn't mean you can run a business. And do you have the skills and capacity to hold your business down until you can afford to get assistance? More often than not, you don't.
• 42:52
  Also, figure out the actual skills you need to run your business properly, not the things you're just excited to do. I see that everybody's really focused on the aesthetic of their businesses. I want a really cute logo. I want my brand colors to be on point. But like you've really rushed on the sampling. You've like spent no time marketing. You're not building databases. You're not doing any strategic thinking. Everything's just like vibes and aesthetic, vibes and aesthetic, vibes and aesthetic.
• 43:21
  We'll send you broke. And the best thing you can do for yourself is back up those vibes and aesthetic with stats, facts. And if you don't have them, go get them. I hear people saying like, well, I don't, I don't have access to my target demographic to go survey them. We'll figure it out. You need to know how you're going to reach these people. If you're going, if you're clicking launch and don't even have an email database, you're not ready yet. You're not ready yet. Yeah.
• 43:48
  100%. I love it. The hard truths. I think like as well. And I want us all to win. So just be prepared. I think, yeah, 100%. We all need to win. I think the thing is, is that a lot of people forget that entrepreneurship is A, being good at sales and B, being a good problem solver because all the other stuff is like so easy to replicate, right? Everyone can have good vibes. Everyone can have a good aesthetic. Everyone can have something that looks pretty. Right.
• 44:16
  But if you can't figure out how you're going to sell something and find customers and solve the problems that come up and be able to keep going the next day, then you've lost.
• 44:27
  100%. And I talk to a lot of business owners and I'm thinking, would you even buy your own product? Like, do you even like it that much? Or are you just happy to have said that you made something and somebody else bought it? I just, objective thinking is really, really difficult. But I'm always asking like myself and my staff, like, please audit what you're doing. Please look at what you're doing with an objective lens.
• 44:49
  And be a bit critical. Like, do you even like what you're putting out? Are you happy with this product? What would you change if you could? And let's do that. I feel as though what I also found really helpful
• 44:59
  is like, instead of knowing what needs to be done, understand how it needs to be done. So everybody knows that like, you know, you need to have enough money to run a business. How does that work? Like understand each and every part. Too many business owners aren't doing their taxes. Figure it out, you know? Knowing how your product gets manufactured. Can you tell an audience without, you know, disclosing things that would make your product seem like it's not viable?
• 45:26
  How is your product going to benefit someone? Why does it exist? All of these questions are so fundamental. And people are like, yeah, but it's in pink. Don't you like it? That's it. That's it. Oh, no, the thing that also gets me is that even if you're a small business, consumers will still compare you to corporations.
• 45:46
  That's a fact. And so knowing that you need to, the standard needs to be so high and you will always be justifying. Like you won't as a small business owner be able to compete with Kmart prices, Big W prices, Walmart prices, but your customers will expect you to. So finding a way to constantly justify why you can exist and why someone will shop through you, pay the price that you're asking for is the hardest part of the job.
• 46:12
  Because you will get that every day. Well, Amazon has it for, well, Walmart has it for, okay. And I can get it tomorrow for free. Totally. And I think consumers now are really like, consumers want and expect such a high level of everything that it's just not good enough to have an average product.
• 46:34
  Always love to figure out at the end what the future is looking like for you, where the business is today, what fun things you want to shout about to everyone.
• 46:45
  Yes. I mean, the business now, I always say we just happen to sell conversation card games, but really it always goes back to creating connections through conversation. And I think that when it comes to the conversation landscape, we have the same problems and we've not had solutions. Why are people struggling to communicate how they feel, to date intentionally, to make friends? I want to be owning the spectrum of relationships.
• 47:11
  I think the dating apps that exist are slipping. There are no real ethical spaces to make friends and have those conversations. Why are we still struggling to have deep chats with people we care about? I think having the product gives me permission to start those conversations in a way that's accessible to as many people as possible. But it's going to get to the point where Flex Factory needs to go back to being lifestyle. How can we empower, educate people?
• 47:36
  and excite people about having the big chats without the crutch of the product itself. We shall see. Wow. Yeah, we shall see. Gosh. Oh, I love it all. I love it. Love it. Love it so much. I love what you're doing. It's such an impactful brand, but with this fun vibe that is vibey, you know, that's it. Your audience tells you so.
• 48:03
  We are up to the six quick questions. We might have covered some of it, but I always ask the questions nonetheless. So question number one is what's your why? Why are you doing what you're doing? In the most candid way possible, I'm sick of having conversations I don't care about.
• 48:21
  And I think that issue was only exacerbated by the fact that, you know, I do what I do and I interact with strangers on a daily basis and the quality of those conversations were just were not improving. So this was my solution, which I recognize is a greater issue on a far larger scale.
• 48:39
  And I just want us to remember, like, the only thing stopping you from getting what you want, improving your life, whatever, is a conversation. Like, the conversation is what needs to happen for anything to improve, anything to change. And so if people don't.
• 48:55
  affirm that skill, we're not going to be making any progress. And I think like something about communication, it gets touted as like the most important thing, yet people aren't proactively doing a lot about it to ensure that they are good communicators, that they are, you know,
• 49:10
  having the conversation they want to, expressing themselves in the way they want to, having their thoughts line up with their beliefs, line up with the words they speak. So that is the why. I'm like, let's pay attention, everyone. Let's do better. If we all pull our weight, if we all pick up the slack, then things improve. Totally. Language is so important. Words are actually very important. And...
• 49:36
  Yeah, it's a good one to be exploring. We all do need to pick up the slack and talk more and communicate more. I agree. Question number two, what has been the number one marketing moment that's made the business pop?
• 49:49
  Do you know what it is? And it sounds really self-absorbed, but honestly, me playing the game. I feel as though somehow, like you said earlier before we started recording, something about me playing the game is selling the product, is selling the business. But I didn't necessarily realize how much until I was doing it intentionally.
• 50:10
  You know, there are days where I can just pick up a game, start playing the game on my Instagram story. We could make $20,000, you know, and I don't often think about myself as a marketing channel because I'm like, well, surely everybody knows like they know me. They know if they're, if you're following me, you know, me, you know, the game, but I do often forget how people need proof of the experience. They want access to what the game can give them without taking a chance on their own dollar. Yeah.
• 50:37
  And I'll quite happily do that. I mean, I don't need anything to prompt me to have a big chat. And so happening to use our products was such an easy way to generate income. But also, you know, my big priorities is making sure there's a clear separation between the business and me so the business can thrive without me being the face, the name, the whatever. And so I only use that every now and then, you know, when I'm feeling frisky. But it works. It definitely works. Yeah, gosh, that is a constant battle to figure out, like,
• 51:07
  how you can step away from it and still get it to thrive. I've heard this a lot on the show for people who have, you know, an audience and are deep in it. Question number three is where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you reading or listening to or subscribing to that we should know about?
• 51:27
  This one's an obvious one, but there's two. The first is there's this newsletter called The Growth Newsletter by Julian Shapiro. I don't think he's related to Ben Shapiro. I hope not. But anyway, basically, they say that we pack every issue of this newsletter with the most actionable, highest leverage growth tactics that we come across each week.
• 51:51
  And so like in an average email, though, it's like, I can't explain how good it is. They'll basically give you all these really like, as I said, actionable, easy, insightful tips on how to grow and market. But they put case studies and results and links to other resources and
• 52:09
  And they're fresh tips. It's not like build an email newsletter. Um, okay. It's like, here's a new way how to segment newsletters or like a Klaviyo update or something. It's just like, and it's fun to get it all there in like a bite-sized chunk. I love it so much. So please go subscribe. It's free.
• 52:26
  And I love the Shopify blog. I think it's very underrated. I get so much information from there. I used to listen to podcasts a lot, but because we've been in lockdown, podcasting is my driving thing and can't drive anywhere. So I've just been reading the blog and I'm like, hold on. There's some really great case studies here of businesses and brands who are using the platform and all the unique ways they are using it to get the best results. So if you don't read the Shopify blog, you should.
• 52:54
  Yeah, I've never read it. I am subscribed to the growth newsletter and I haven't read it in a long time. So I'm going to open that bad boy up and get into it after this call. Thank you. Question number four is how do you win the day? What are your AM and PM rituals and habits that keep you feeling happy and successful and motivated and productive? This question always gets me because
• 53:19
  I just feel like three days to me is one day. Like everything just blurs together. I go to sleep at 7am. I wake up at midday. I'm just doing stuff and vibing. But the only way I can properly win the day is if I action off one priority from every business I have.
• 53:39
  Right. So it means that everything kind of gets care and I don't feel like I'm neglecting everything, but I don't put pressure on myself to have a game changing moment every day. And I also know there's not enough hours in the day for me to resource everything equally. So allowing myself to create these just small priorities like, you know, have you done that report yet? Have you pitched something you've just let somebody? Yeah. Good. Great. Whatever else you do is enough.
• 54:04
  Yeah, that like one action that moves it forward. Absolutely. Question number five is if you were given $1,000 of no strings attached money, where would you spend it in the biz?
• 54:17
  You know, I've been thinking about this question for years. When you first asked me this question a couple of years ago, we were sitting at Hacienda in Circular Quay. I don't even know what I said now, but I think that, I mean, $1,000 isn't a lot of money, but I just think that I would add it to my balance for SMS marketing. It's just going so well for us that I'm like, I can keep using free organic marketing to drive traffic to the website, use lead generation tools like free wallpapers, free calendars, free eBooks,
• 54:46
  And then just keep abandoned cart remarketing to them. Like we have a 16 times ROI on SMS marketing. Facebook ads could never, it could never literally. I was like, hold on. I'm telling everyone I know. I'm like, get on SMS bump, put on your abandoned cart slow and let's get paid.
• 55:07
  Holy moly. Is that the tool SMS bump or is that like a term? It's a tool and we link ours with Klaviyo and it's super cheap. It's like between 30 cents and 70 cents to send in a text. And it's good for us because we have a very like low ticket item. So Facebook ads for us were always so touchy because some months we were getting like a two times ROI. I was like, this is just not worth it. I'm like, take it down, delete it. I don't need it. So with this, you know, 17 times,
• 55:37
  I said, hold on, hold on. There's a strategy here. So yeah, everyone needs to get on it ASAP. That's crazy. Yeah. So imagine what a thousand bucks can do for us, where that can take us. That can take you far, girlfriend. Question number six, last question. How do you deal with failure? What is your mindset and approach when things don't go to plan? Yeah.
• 56:04
  I get very excited by failure. And I think it's definitely like my exposure therapy tool when it comes to running the business. There is so much I don't know. And I can attribute so much of our growth to doing something poorly and having to put systems and structures in place to not have that ever happen again.
• 56:22
  And that's any anywhere from like the deal with the 3PL or, you know, not being mindful of our taxes. And, you know, even small things like when it came to end of financial year and we had all this stock sitting there that we had to pay taxes on. We didn't know we were like, what is this? We haven't sold it. So why are we paying taxes on it? Well, that's a thing to know. But I get hyped because I'm kind of like, well, this is something that goes wrong. It's just another thing that I can remind myself to be more mindful of. So, yeah, I feel good about it.
• 56:49
  But I think also because it goes in the learning bank, a hundred percent. I just don't think that I've had much experience with failure when it comes to business that I feel like, Ooh, this is like, um, a rite of passage. Like let's something needs to go wrong. I'm happy for it to happen. I feel like a real business owner. There's the challenge. There it is. Oh my gosh.
• 57:15
  I have loved this. Obviously you are the best. I love you. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for sharing. We are the best. I'm so excited for you and all the things and can't wait to see what you're doing next. Thanks babe. I love us. This was so much fun. I wish we could speak to everybody in real time, but you know, one day.
• 57:46
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 58:10
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 58:33
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 58:50
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 59:14
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 59:37
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.