Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Joel Anderson on James Harden traded to Cavaliers, College Basketball in Crisis | 02.04

Transcript

Joel Anderson on James Harden traded to Cavaliers, College Basketball in Crisis | 02.04 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A wave original.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a hater. It is that time of week where we
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: have a guest join us. Check him out on Ring
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of Tailgate. Also check him out on the press box.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: And I hope he wasn't on camera. by the time that,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: like Joel Addison, has this become your thing now?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: This is my signature move.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: This wasn't always the case.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you, I keep what's happening here with
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: my good buddy, Joel. Look, we're going to talk about
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: James Harden. We're going to talk about a few other things, right?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: But one thing that I have noticed and I have
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to keep in mind, this bring your tailgates show, I
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: think is the first opportunity for, that you've truly had
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: to be not simply on camera, but to be an
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: on camera personality.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Okay. That's fair.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, you've done your stuff, you've done your
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: slow burn, you've done other things, but you've been there to,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: be a serious person doing serious things.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that your job isn't serious, but
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I'm saying the vibes of this, you're next to a dude.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: With a cowboy hat on. You understand what I'm saying?
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: And they have shared with the world what we have
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: always known here on The Right Time. which is that
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: you're a touch of a weirdo, right?
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: A touch, Joel.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Joel, you've spent the last week arguing with your coworker
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: about whose dad could beat the others up.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: My dad beat the brakes off his old man, but okay.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Dead dad, I'd like to point out.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: He brought that up, not me. Okay.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: All I'm saying is this. As you have become a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: person who is now a bit of an on-camera, out-front personality,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: you're figuring it out, and quite often part of figuring
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: it out is... going through gimmicks of sorts until you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: get to another space. And somehow you've decided that your
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: gimmick is that you're going to raise the roof in 2026.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: This is so disrespectful.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: What is disrespectful about it? You know it's exactly.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: What I'm telling you. You get a little bit of
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: touch of fame, and now you.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: I'm saying to.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Somebody who's been here, I know how it goes.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: Like, this is part of the process. And you're not
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: going to keep doing that shit forever. But for right now,
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: as you sift through things, right now, you are adhering
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: to your insistence. You no longer want to publicly be
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: identified as the best 10-year-old in America in 1988.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, no, I'm fine with that.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: I'm still good with it.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: No, now you want to be the inventor of raising
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: the roof.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: You're like little fucking Richard who showed up at every
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: award show to remind people that he the OG of
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: the OGs.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Are you bringing that up because B. called West Side
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Gun little Richard on Twitter today.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: Or something like that?
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: I had no idea that this happened.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: Oh, West Side Gun did not take it very well.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: What kind of Little Richard was he calling him?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, B-Dot was talking about how, you know,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the J. Cole, DJ Clue thing, and there's a couple,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: you know, the rappers are getting back into the mixtape vibe.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And he's like, I want to see more of that.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: And West Side Gun was like, well, basically, I've been
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: doing that. People hadn't given me my respect for it.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And so B-Dot was like, well, You sound like Little Richard.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: I want my credit. I want my credit.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, and West Side Gun was not able to appreciate
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the nuance of the statement? Or did he get the
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: nuance of the statement and still didn't like it?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: He said something to the effect, on my soul, when
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I see you in person, I'm going to hurt you.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, I got to say, I am assuming that it's
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: number one that I rolled out, given the fierceness of that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I have thoughts on West Side Gun that I guess
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I will not offer now.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't want to have a misunderstanding with him.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I saw West Side Gun once on a plane train
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and it was too late at night for
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: me to holler at him because I had no idea
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: if he knew who I was, and it was really
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: late at night.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: But Black Thought name-checked me on a West Side Gun song.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah!
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: It's Kabibbles.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: Is that right?
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: I'll say this, though. Here's my thing, though, before we
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: get to the other stuff.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: In terms of coming up with a concept, putting the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: art direction out, titling it, all of that stuff, that
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: man is an honest-to-God genius.
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Like in terms of taking a vision and applying it,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: like I could come up with some stuff and then
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: do it. I don't feel like I, I don't feel
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: like I had that ability to start with just an
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: entire escape. Like I've been better at it at different
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: times in my life, but I look at that stuff
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: he does and I'm like, wow, there's a mastermind behind this.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, West side gun.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And I guess the, the, what we're not talking about
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: is like how good of a rapper he is.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: But I think I, it, That's almost immaterial to me.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: He's still one of my favorite artists. I love listening
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: to West Side Gun. He's always in my top five.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Hey, Joe, let me explain something to you right fast
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: that you need to understand.
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Sometimes when we leave the thing unsaid, we don't say
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: that we're leaving it unsaid. We just do it.
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: Well, okay.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: You understand what I'm saying?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: In case West Side Gun sees this, that's something that
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: other people say. I think, I love West Side Gun music.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: He's always in my top five Spotify rap. One of
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: my favorite rappers.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Joe, Joe, I already did the work for.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: You, bro. Okay, all right.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: I just wanted, I wanted some clarity. I already did
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: the work for you. All you're doing is making it worse.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: No, I want some clarity.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: I don't think you are. Hey, check this out, right?
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: James Harden.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: And you know what?
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: I want to be fair to James Harden this time.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Cause I'm not sure that James Harden asked to be traded.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Okay. Right.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: What it sounds to me.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Like what happened for those of you who don't know,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: James Harden is now a Cleveland Cavalier. Um, and I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know what the clubs is hitting
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: on in Cleveland, but I guess he's about to find out.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: And something tells me it's not going to make them happy. Um,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: but anyway, James Harden.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Went to Cleveland for what dares Garland, the second round pick.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: I forget where the second round pick went.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: That don't really matter too much to me. Um, At first,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: it felt like a classic James Harden. Oh, you're not
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: going to pay me? Well, watch this. And then he
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: got traded. What it sounds more like it was the
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Clippers were like, hey, James, just letting you know, we're
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: not going to pay you. And they ain't even let
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: it get to the point. of of james acting bad
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: they were like we know where this goes all right
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: don't you worry partner we go we we gonna figure
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: something out for you like hey hey hey hey i
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: i know yeah we know what that means james we
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: know what that means and now james is going to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the cleveland cavaliers and this is my question because on
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: one hand it makes perfect sense for cleveland they got
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: they got a significant construction problem or roster construction problem
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: or at least they had where they had two little
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: guards and two talls, not bigs.
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: Right. Right?
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Well, James Harden is many things. He is not a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: small guard.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: No.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: He is a tank.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: Barrel-chested dude.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can put him next to Mitchell, and
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Mitchell can play off-guard, like in a way that Kyrie
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: can play off-guard when he was playing with LeBron. Like,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: if Harden decides, I'm just going to be the point guard,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: he can do that. The problem is, we know the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: last game of the season James Harden is going to
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: play terribly. Like five for 17 with eight turnovers. He's
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: going to be awful in the last game of the year.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: And you're going to lose that game, which means you're
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: not going to win a championship because we got 17
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: years of this with James Harden. And I'm amazed that like,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: do people, because he's such a good player, right? Like
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: it's not even, he's not my favorite player.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: He's Joel's favorite. But he's a very, he's an excellent player.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: And he has stayed good longer than any of us
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: expected that he would stay good. And in an era
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: where guys have been known to be in and out
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of lineups, he's played a lot of games at a
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: lot of points with a physically demanding style. He's in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: year 17. Why they think it ain't going to be
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the same as it's always been? Do they think it's
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: just mean?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Well, don't you think that's more of a referendum on
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: what they think Darius Garland is.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Going to be?
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: That they say, well, because on its face, it is
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: kind of ridiculous. You're trading a 36-year-old, 17 years in
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: the league, for a 26-year-old who's, you know, I mean,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: he's borderline all-star and presumably still has plenty of good
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: years in front of him.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: But, I mean, Darius Garland has been hurt.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: And I wonder if they look at him and they say, well, look,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: we know that we've capped out on what we can
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: get out of Darius Garland. Maybe James Harden has taken
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: these lessons and these failures in the past and we'll
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: get something different. And they're like, look, Donovan Mitchell is
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: a great big game player. We've got two defenders and
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. So we don't even have
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: to worry about if he plays defense. So like maybe
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: his deficiencies won't matter as much here because we got
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: something for that.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I think Darren's problem is that he's six foot one.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: And Donovan Mitchell is six foot two.
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: You couldn't keep doing that, right?
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's been an all-star, right? Right.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know if necessarily the Cavs are down on
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: him intrinsically.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Right, or just the fact that he does not fit
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: with the guys that they have. So I think that's
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: a fair question that you ask. I don't think it's
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: so much an indictment there.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: I just look at it.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And this is the thing where it gets interesting, because
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: you're right, Donovan Mitchell, pretty good big-game player, right?
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: But James still going to find a way, man. Like,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you can't even have him around. You can't even, like,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: you can't even let him come to the stadium.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, you can stagger the minutes.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: You can give no no no no no no you're
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: not hearing me you can't let james on the you
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: can't stagger the james and donovan minutes.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: When you do this because you need you you need
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: to diminish any possibility that james gets the ball in
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: those games.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: James Harden has been terrible in some very notable spots,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: but he's not always terrible.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: In the playoffs.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: Just the last game of the year.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: Hey, look. I mean, right. You don't... The thing is.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Because.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: He had a good Game 7 against Oklahoma City that
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: one time.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: Well, yes, but I say, because I want to say something.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: You're right. He has some big playoff performances.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Like, when he fell apart at the end of that
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: series with the Sixers against the Celtics, they had two
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: games in that series that he won by himself.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Like, jump on my back, got it done.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: That Game 7 against Oklahoma City, which, because it was
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: the bubble, nobody's going to remember it, that was a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: fascinating series.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Because remember... They had just traded Chris.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: That was the year after they had traded Chris Paul.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: And Chris Paul and James, dude. Not like each other.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: They don't back each other at all.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And it was looking like another James Harden series. And
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: as I recall, the last play of that game seven
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: was James Harden reaching up, blocking that shot. And I
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: have never seen James Harden look that emotional on a
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: basketball court.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: Like, he made the play on defense.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: A defensive play. Right.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: He made the play to win the series.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: So, it's part of what the thing is about him
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: is like why I don't get into like is he
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: a hall of famer of course when you start talking
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: about him in the upper echelon of two guards where
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: it gets tricky is the knowledge that the last game
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of the season he's gonna be terrible.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Well you know does that make him little Carl Malone
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: right I mean because Carl Malone was definitely a guy
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: that came up short in big moments, right? Never won
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: a championship, but was like dependable, put up lots of numbers, carried,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: you know, played far longer than you would expect somebody
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: that played, you know, that sort of ball.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: The most durable player, the two most durable players in
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: the history of the NBA.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Those two dirty motherfuckers, John Stockton and Carl Malone. Yeah.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And don't you, I mean, I just like, is it
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: bad to be remembered?
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Is sort of Karl Malone. I mean, well, hold on.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Did you just add, did you, hold on, hold on.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I'm not talking about Summerfield, Louisiana.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I wish somebody else was in the house so I
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: could call him over and be like, hey, Joe just
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: answered this bad.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: To be called Lil Karl Malone. Not Summerfield, excluding the Summerfield,
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: Louisiana of it all.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: How about the 18 Willa of it all? How about the, like,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: everything other than the box score.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the little Mexican girls.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Everything other than the box score.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: We keeping it to the box score.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: We keeping it to the box score and like what
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: you expected them in a big game.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: And if you keep it to.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Just that part of it, then I think that's not
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: necessarily the worst thing.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: A legacy to have. And I saw James Harden.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: It ain't the best one.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: It's not. It's not.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: But I saw James Harden talk about this, and he
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: was like, well, look, I had some bad luck. He's like,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: my peak came during those great Steph Curry teams, those
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: great Steph Curry Warriors teams.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: Didn't win during then. Which is true, right? Is that
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: not true?
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: It is true.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: They were the only team that had a legit shot
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: at beating them.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: That is not the explanatory variable for why it went
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: bad for James Harden. Because let's say in, was it 2018? Yes,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: it was 2018. I was on the way to Barbados.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: It was 2018. That's how I remember the year.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: Okay. Okay. Yeah.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I was at the airport on the way. No, I
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: was at the airport on the way to Barbados. The
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: game that Chris Paul, um, hurt his hamstring.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: It was game six. He hurt his hamstring.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Um, And so that was 2018. All they would have
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: done is gone and played in the finals against LeBron
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: and put up three terrible games.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Come on, Wayne.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. It wouldn't have mattered who was around.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: The circumstances seemed to be the problem, not the opponent.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to think about that time because
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the Rockets were really the only team that gave that
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: healthy Warriors team a run. Right, like they were the
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: only team that ever really had them on the ropes.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I guess it was only one game
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: with the 2017 Spurs where they were.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: Up by 25. Yeah, who's to say? Right, yeah, the foot.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're right. You're right. The Rockets did their best.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: They did their best. You are correct.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: They went for it and came up short because Chris
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Paul's hamstring didn't couldn't hold up, and they fell apart
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: in game seven.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Because, I mean, one thing we know, it's not like
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: you could ever lose with Chris Paul on your team.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, I just think a lot of this,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: because I don't like to... I mean, winning championships are
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: so hard. And so, like, when people do it, I
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: elevate people who win championships, but I don't really demerit
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: people who don't win, because knowing that it requires so much,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: so many things to go right for you to win
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: a championship.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: So let me throw something at you, because I... I
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: agree with that. I do think we undersell how hard
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: it is to win one. However, what do you say
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: about not playing for one? Okay.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And to be clear, Harden is a weird case because
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Harden has been to an NBA finals, but it was
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: as the sixth man on those teams, right? Howard Bryant
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: makes this point about basically every sport. Just about everybody
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that's one of them dudes has, forget about winning one.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Plays for one, right?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: So as much as I love Dominique Wilkins, didn't even
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: get past the second round. And you could talk about
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: everybody else that was around, but at some point it
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: was not you, right?
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Like you were.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Not the guy, and especially in basketball, which is typically
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: a best man wins sport, but you go through it.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Even Chris Paul, we could talk about him.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Chris Paul was the best player on a team that
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: played for a championship.
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: Right. Should have won, too.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just about all of them are.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Or you get guys that it was never, like, James
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Worthy never had the opportunity, for example. But James Worthy
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: ain't in the conversations.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's a different wing of the Hall of Fame. Right.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Even when we thought Dirk Nowitzki was soft, Dirk Nowitzki
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: had played for a championship.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Luka Doncic, for all our criticisms of him, Has played
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: for a championship. Like, it's going to be interesting with
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: guys like Anthony Edwards when it comes down to it.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Are you going to have, especially now as it's a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: little more random and weird about who gets there, but we're.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Going to ask about him.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Have you played for Giannis, whose one ring is taking
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: him a long way, but he got there.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: He played for one. You know, we can go up
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: and down the line.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: It's hard to name guys in truth who haven't played
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: for one.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Patrick, you ain't played for one.
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think that, I mean, because
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: the thing is, what are we arguing about James Harden?
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Because I don't think anybody is saying that he is
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: top of the line, you know, top 20 NBA player
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: of all time.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: But he has a statistical profile that would make you
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: say that he should be in that discussion.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And let's say that they had gone to the finals
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: in 2018. which I don't think was necessarily his fault,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: but he's also not the reason they went. But if
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: he had won in 2018, what would we say about
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: James Harden?
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: Man, yeah, I mean, is he there?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think you would put him with D-Wade, but
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, right now, we're saying, what, is he the fifth,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: sixth best two-guard all-time?
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, so we're saying all-time two-guards.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to try to do this off
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: top of head, because two-guard is a weird position. There
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: haven't really been that many great two-guards.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Michael Jordan.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Kobe.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Kobe Bryant.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: And in no particular order right now, just so people.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Don't start arguing about it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: D-Wade, Jerry West.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: D-Wade, Jerry West, Clyde Drexler. And James Harden is not
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: as good as Clyde Drexler.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Wow. Really?
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Clyde Drexler played for it twice before he got to
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: the Rockets.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Look, bro.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: Clyde Drexler was the best player ever. All two teams
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: that went to the finals. Why wouldn't it be Clyde Drexler?
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Those were really good ensemble casts.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: That he played with for Portland. Fine, but the second
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: best player on that team is Terry Porter.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Like, why would you not? Duckworth, Jerome, Percy. Yeah, I mean,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: did you just say Kevin Duckworth? No, he was an all-star.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: Kevin Duckworth made a couple all-stars.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: You know why he was an all-star? Why? Because he
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: played with Clyde Drexler.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: Those were some really good teams, man. You ever play
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: with them on NBA Live?
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: That's fine.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: It's fine.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: But James Harden is not Clyde Drexler.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: Man, I don't... That's a tough one, bro. I.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I can't... Clyde Drexler, by the way, who also has
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: a ring.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Who has a ring?
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Clyde Drexler has everything James Harden doesn't have.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: Man, that's a tough one. I'm not saying that I wholly.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Disagree, but that kind of shocked me that you threw
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Clyde Drexler over there, just like that.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: Like, I feel that's a... That's more of an argument
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: than I would.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I've never seen Clyde Drexler be the reason his team
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: could not go to the NBA finals.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, people see the thing is, is like everything
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: gets washed over because remember that year, the year that
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Michael Jordan got to play the Lakers in his first
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: NBA finals. That was a year that Clyde Drexler was
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: supposed to have gone to the finals, but he played
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: poorly in the Western Conference finals against the Lakers.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: And they lost. And then like, Michael Jordan. And Michael Jordan. Yeah.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: That's fair.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: That's fair. And so there were things, there were things
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: that like, you know, in the way that Michael Jordan regarded.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Him, he's like. him. Just tell me about it. That's
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: the way Michael Jordan regarded everybody.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: But just tell me about the time. Just tell me
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: about the time that James Harden got done. Let me
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: ask you this, because this is where it gets interesting.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: You would say that James Harden is a better player
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: than Tracy McGrady. He had a better career for sure.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: That never getting out of the first round thing is
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a huge demerit for Tracy McGrady. But Tracy McGrady at
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: his coldest. It's almost unfair to anybody to try to
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: compare them to what it looked like when Tracy McGrady
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: played basketball. But there's no way I can say Tracy
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: McGrady was a better player than James Harden when Tracy
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: McGrady never got out of the first round of playoffs.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Man, you know, and I, so I covered Tracy McGrady
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: when he was with the, when he first got to
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the Rockets. And I mean, they saddled him with some
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: of the worst rosters.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: They did.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, bro, he had Clarence Witherspoon out there, Bobby Sura. Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: The magic was, it was the same deal.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So that's what, that was one of the first times
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: that I was like, sometimes it may not really matter
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: how good you are.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: You know, when you got to like when you got
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: when you got to overcome like the deficiencies of your
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: teammates and no disrespect to those guys. But it was
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: like Tracy McGrady was not playing with like a loaded deck.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask this question also about two guards,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: because as we've been talking, I've been going through and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: off the top of my head. I've not been able
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to think of another person necessarily throw in there. But
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: here's a fun question. And it's because we don't actually like.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: treat this man like a serious basketball player. We know
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: he's a serious basketball player, but when we have these discussions,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: we don't treat him as a serious basketball player.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Is Allen Iverson a two-guard?
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: Oh, man, that's a good question.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: Because I think clearly he is. When they went to
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: the finals.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: Eric Snowman was the point guard.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: When he went to the finals, they went to the finals,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: he was the two-guard.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: He was the two-guard.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Would you say that James Harden is better than Allen Iverson?
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: Oh, man. I don't know. I don't think so.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, let me ask you another one.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: God damn.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: How much better, because I think most of us would
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: say he was better, but I still ask, how much better.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Is James Harden than Ray Allen?
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Well, I would.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Like, Ray Allen's a tough one to evaluate in these discussions.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: By the time he became championship guy, he wasn't the
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: player that he had been earlier in his career.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: But he was a hell of a player earlier in
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: his career.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And then he became the best three-point shooter of all
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: time until Steph took the crown from him, right?
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, nobody ever won anything. I
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: guess they got one game away from the finals in 2001, but.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Nobody really won anything. Yeah, nobody really won anything, but
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Ray Allen is their best player.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Man, the two-guard thing is kind of weird because I don't.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I don't want to have to pit Allen Iverson versus
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: James Harden. It just seems too hard.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: To think about.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: But historically, the league has had a lot of great ones,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of great threes, a lot of great fives.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: The four became a thing from the 90s on.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Your whole list of greatest power forwards, the earliest real
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: candidate that people will have is Carl Malone. It was
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a different position back in the day. That was not
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a position for people who were good at basketball.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: You're Kermit Washington.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: You know what it was?
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: It was the fullback of basketball. Sure, there are fullbacks
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: that can run. Sure, there's fullbacks that can catch. Jim
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Brown was a fullback. They're there, but that's not... There
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't a high salary cap allocation.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not a lot of fours. And also, just as
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: an aside, do you count Tim Duncan as a four?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Because I kind of think of him as a five,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: even though he wants to be a four.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, so the thing was, he was a four
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: until David Robinson retired. And then he was a five.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: And all the Tim Duncan early career stuff becomes interesting
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: and muddy because they gave him the minutes, they made
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: him that guy but you go look at the advanced
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: numbers on that first championship team or even the regular
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: numbers when you prorate it out for minutes it is
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: clear who the best player on that team still was
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: and it was david robinson damn um okay yeah you
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: go look at some of those numbers man robinson they
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: cut like i think they put them in a position
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: to be good in like more concentrated stretches yeah but
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: it did great. I mean, David Robinson, talk about a
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: guy that had some terrible rosters.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: That's the guy that was so cold that like, that's
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the one of those that I'm like, he would still
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: be everything if he played today and he just had
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: that one series against dream.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: It's just really, we'll never let him slide for it.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it really impacted the way we thought about it.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: He's such a great dude. He was such a great player, man. Like,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, he, he even looked, he would look great
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: in basketball today.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: Like, yeah.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: And he kind of don't, you know, Is it crazy
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: to say he kind of was like a Wimby-esque figure?
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to say that because he's not eight
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: feet tall, right?
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: But I don't even, I mean, pick your guy. Seven
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: feet tall, could face the basket, could shoot. Like he
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: would have more range in today's game, just like Olajuwon
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: would have more range in today's game because that would
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: be the game.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: Take one or two more steps out.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you would tell that person, to do that, and Robinson, see,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the thing is, Robinson was, like, so much bigger than
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Olajuwon and strong as shit. Like, that's why those clips
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: of Shaq just abusing David Robinson, also bad for the reputation,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: but he was doing it to everybody else.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, man.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Look, so I watched that 95 finals when the Rockets
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: swept the Magic, and I remember thinking, I was like, man,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Akeem can't do shit with Shaq.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: I was like, Akeem did get his numbers off. He
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: was MVP of that series.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Shaq has respect for Akeem that he really doesn't have
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: for anybody else that kind of counts as his peers.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: But watching those games, and Dream said it later. He's like,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: I can't do nothing with this guy.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: They didn't do that much guarding of each other. Because
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: here was the issue for Olajuwon. When those dudes that
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: were just like way bigger than him, Olajuwon would take
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: that step back and then he'd get off the ground
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: so fast that he, here we go, pitching a little
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: finger roll, pitch whatever.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, throw it out.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: That's not working with Shaq. Because he's not putting that
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: thing up in the air.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: Oh, he's not fading away from the basket.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right. Right, he's not.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: No, no, no.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Especially at that point, that year three Shaq, touch was
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: not really in the arsenal.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Nah.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Dream looks so much smaller compared to him when you
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: see those videos of them lined up against each other.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: He's smaller than all of them. We greatly underestimate how
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: not big. He and Dwight Howard, those are the two
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: where people don't quite understand. Moses Malone is also on
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that list too. Moses Malone is a listed 6'10. Have
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: you ever watched a Moses Malone video on YouTube?
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: Sometimes. Not very often, but what happens?
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: It's the most boring thing that the internet has to offer.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Oh, is it a lot of me bounds?
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Look, man, I can't imagine what it was like for
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: an old Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, like an early, mid-30s Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to be.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Like, Here we go against Moses Malone, who.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Played like an old man from 17 on, just relentless.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: And it is a lot of me-bounds. He's doing those.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: But imagine that as a whole strategy, there's nothing you
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: can do about it.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: A grown man is out here, and he's not going
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: to stop.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: He's a grown man, but he's 23. He has boundless energy. Yeah, man.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Another guy that's kind of lost the time, man. People
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: don't talk about him. But, I mean, again, Moses Malone's
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: peak was what? 40, 45 years ago.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: So it makes sense.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Moses Malone. And it's funny.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Moses Malone's peak is really like 79 to 83.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Like in that stretch, you'd say really probably from 81
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to 83. He has an argument for 83. He was
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: definitely the best player in the NBA.
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Best player in the world. And just by you, he
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: wasn't no parts of that.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Just, just, just, just, That Sixers team, too, one of
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: the underrated champions of all time.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, that was an all-time great team. All-time great.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: It's like, I don't even know if Moses Malone needed
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a basketball to practice.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: He was with the Izzo Drills.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, he has the most free throw
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: attempts of anybody in NBA history.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: Is that right?
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: That tells you.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: That tells you everything. If somebody passed him, it was
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Karl Malone, right? It's everything you need to know.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: Oh, wow.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: A lot more basketball than I thought.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Coming up next, I got a sneaky suspicion that I
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: don't talk about these dudes going back, like these grown
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: men going back to.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Play college basketball. And I just, okay.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: We'll be back.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Listeners, think back to a first date where you were
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: really interested in someone. You probably asked them important questions like,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: what are you looking for? Well, the same goes if
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you're hiring. You definitely want to address key questions first
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to see if someone could be right for your role.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: That's why you need ZipRecruiter. When you post your job,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: ZipRecruiter suggests screening questions to help you hone in on
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: top candidates faster. And today, you can try it for
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Bomani. ZipRecruiter's matching technology immediately finds
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: qualified candidates that check all your boxes. ZipRecruiter recommends screening
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: questions you can easily add to get the highest quality applicants.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Ask key questions and hire faster with ZipRecruiter. Four out
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: candidate within the first day. Try it for free at
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: ZipRecruiter.com slash Bomani. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Bomani. Meet your match
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: on ZipRecruiter. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: We get it. February is full of.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Flowers, candy, stuffed animals, and of course, lots of talk
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: about relationships and dating. And no matter where you are,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: whether you're married or dating or single or just focusing
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: on you, you're right on time. Therapy can help you
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: find your way and see more clearly where you want
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: to be. An imperfect love life is common, and a
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: little work in therapy can lead to significant progress. Whether
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: it's for individuals or couples, therapy is an opportunity to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: identify what's getting in the way and help remove any blockers.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: identify your needs and preferences, and our 12-plus years of
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: experience in industry-leading match fulfillment rate means we typically get
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: it right the first time. If you aren't happy with
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: your match, switch to a different therapist at any time
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: from our tailored recs. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: million people globally. And it works, with an average of
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: over 1.7 million client reviews. Sign up and receive 10%
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: off at BetterHelp.com slash Bomani. That's BetterHelp.com slash Bomani. It's
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: the last call for football on FanDuel. One final Sunday.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: One last kickoff, the final chance to place your bets
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: before the NFL season.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Closes its tab.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: This is Super Bowl 60, and FanDuel is making sure
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: you're in on it. If you're a new customer, bet
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: $ 5 and get $ 200 in bonus bets if you win.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: So whether you're backing the favorite or riding with the underdog.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Make it count. Because after the Super Bowl, the season's over.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: And football is officially done. Last call for football on FanDuel,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 60. Visit FanDuel.com
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: slash Beaumonti to get started.
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: in D.C., Kansas, Wyoming. Opt-in requirement. Awards are non-withdrawable. Restrictions apply,
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements, and max wager amount.
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: See terms at sportsduel.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: rg-help for. com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: in Connecticut. Visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-8000. 5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: We are back on with Joel Anderson. And so we
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: just had this thing.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: For those of you who've been paying attention or haven't
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: been paying attention rather. College basketball has a problem now,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: which is now that guys are getting paid to play
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: college basketball, it's very difficult to make the argument that
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: someone having been paid to play basketball is a disqualifying
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: factor as to why or why not they should be
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: able to play college basketball. And so we have seen
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: guys who have played in Europe or played in the
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: G League who are now coming back and finding spots
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: on college basketball rosters.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: And now it's gone to the point where we got
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: a dude who has actually played in the NBA, who
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: is coming back to play college basketball.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: Wait, Amari?
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: What was that?
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Amari Bailey? Is that the one you're talking about?
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: I don't remember his name.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: The details weren't important to me. He has played in
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: the NBA before. did enough for what I needed here. Okay.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Now Joel says he loves it. And I'm just curious
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: what there is to love about it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Well, hold on, hold on.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Other than the fact that it makes people upset who
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: happened to be people that Joel doesn't like.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: How did you know that that was a part of it?
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Because I know you.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: That and number two, I just don't think there's anything
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: to love here.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Like, what is there to love?
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, okay, let me just go back for
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: a second. I mean, a decade ago, people were complaining. Man,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: the one and dones. Nobody wants to be in college
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: basketball anymore. All the great players, they don't stay very
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: long and they leave. And then they created all these
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: other leagues, Overtime Elite, the G League Elite.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: There was all these other leagues.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: G League Ignite.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: G League Ignite, right, yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: LaMelo Ball went over to wherever because they did not
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: want to play college basketball. And people were like, man,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: nobody wants to play college basketball. And even you, you've
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: talked about the degradation of the quality of college basketball
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: over the course of our lifetimes. I fail to see
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: how it's a bad thing for college basketball to have
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: better college basketball players playing it.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: And so I'm with that.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: If they're going to get the kind of players that
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: had NBA talent or potential and they want to come
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: back and play, that makes the game more entertaining for
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: me to watch rather than the guys that they had
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: out there. And I think college basketball fans should be
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: grateful that now people want to play college basketball again.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, you sound like a white man. They should be grateful.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: They should be grateful.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: I'm talking to the white folks that they need to
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: be grateful.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: They need to be grateful that their beloved college basketball
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: has brothers who wants to come back and play for
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: them now. They were complaining about that forever. Oh, man,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: nobody wants to play. They just speed on through. We
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: can't even get attached to these guys. Well, now you
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: got good college basketball players and you can play.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: Hold on.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: You just gave away your own game at the end, right?
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Number one, I have to give you credit for this.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Your ability... to.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Construct the most realistic straw man possible.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Stop.
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: Before chopping him down to the ground is incredible, right?
• 35:41
  Speaker 7: The majority of that time was spent building that straw man.
• 35:46
  Speaker 7: And I understand, by the way, the inspiration behind the
• 35:50
  Speaker 7: straw man. So I'm not acting like you build a
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: straw man completely out of nothing, right? Like there's some
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: carbon in that, right?
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: There's some signs of life in it.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: But where why I feel like to a degree of
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: talking about a straw man, and I think that you're
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: not that big into college basketball, I think.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: And but this is why. And this is not a
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: not a you get to have no opinion sort of thing.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: But the reason the reason I bring that up and
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: what informs my thinking is the way that I viewed
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: college sports changed so much when I lived in North
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Carolina because I got to witness two things. what it
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: was like for people to watch seven win football and
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Like what, what the experience is of we're
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: always going to be a seven win football team.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And this is, you know, this is the space we're
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: just in juxtaposed against those same people having completely different
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: expectations about what basketball was, but also a place that
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: had a, and I'm talking right now specifically about Carolina,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: though Duke fits in this category. and NC State, which
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: has been the equivalent largely of seven-win basketball, seven-win football.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Just for basketball, right?
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: People, what they have said that they've wanted, I think,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: is not simply better college basketball players because that has
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: absolutely been.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: A part of it.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: What people have wanted was greater levels of continuity, right?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: So think about how many of our favorite college basketball
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: players or college basketball players that we reminisce about were
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: not going to be great pros. We enjoyed watching them
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: in part because of the time that was accumulated watching them.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: A great example.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Lawrence Moten, rest in peace, passed away very recently. People
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: our age very much so remember Lawrence Moten. We remember
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: the high socks. We remember all of those things. And
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: he was a very good college basketball player. But we
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: don't remember him because he was going to be a
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: great player in the NBA, right? Like, I was watching
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Get Up before we got in here, and the trivia
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: question was, other than Michael Jordan, who was the other number.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Three overall pick from North Carolina in basketball? And the
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: answer was Jerry Stackhouse.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And now, great, Stackhouse was only there for two years,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: but what Jerry Stackhouse was and what he seemed to
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: be as a college basketball player was bigger in part
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: because the brand of Carolina was bigger. And the truth was,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: it was about those two years. Like, when he came in,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: they were like, yo, he and Sheed and Touche come in, like, oh,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: he's going to be the next Jordan or whatever it is.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: It's not just about having good basketball players. There is
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: something to the idea, and I know you're rather cynical
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: about this justifiably, but... there is a certain idea around
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: college sports that is completely laid to waste. When a
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: dude goes to the NBA, it comes back. So like,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I thought it made sense. I had to come around
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: on it, but like the guy that had gone to
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: play G league ignite, but he never made it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: To the NBA. And then he comes back to college.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I think it was reasonable to say that G League Ignite,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: it's professional-ish, right? But that was not the same as
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: like going to the NBA. And even the guy that
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: was in the actual, I think it was one that
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: was in the actual G League. And then he decided
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: to come back and was within his window of eligibility.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: For his own sake. get your money, right?
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Because that's the real reason we in this for, right?
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: These cats ain't coming, like, this isn't exactly Rodney Dangerfield
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: coming back, right?
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Like, coming back to be on the diving team. They like,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: hey man, they out here cutting these checks.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: If they was cutting these kind of checks before, maybe
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I never would have left, so forth and so on.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: But a guy coming back in the middle of January
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: to just wind up on a team like as a ringer,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: like as a free agent, I don't think that improves
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: college basketball.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: I don't think.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't think improving college basketball is just as
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: simple as, like, your point was, I don't see how
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: having good basketball players is bad for college basketball.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: It's sort of. Like, dropping Luka Doncic off would not
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: make college basketball better. That's an extreme example, right? But
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: simply because the guy is better is not going to
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Like, I think it is cognitively dissonant when it's just like, hey,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: we just got somebody off the waiver wire the other day,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and then he just dropped in here, It may make
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: it better to watch. This is why I brought up
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: the not really being into college basketball. It may make
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: it better if you drop in to watch a basketball
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: game and now you have this better player.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: But for people who are most.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Dedicated, and I'm not as dedicated as I used to be,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: but like the people who follow from day one and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: you grow and you watch a team, you watch players
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: mature and like get to a senior night where you're like, yo,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I remember him way back when, or even through the
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: course of a season. A college basketball season is a building,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: developing season.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Sort of thing.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I find that to be what makes, if you're going
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: to get into college basketball, cause it's not cause of
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: the quality of the basketball. Um, but if you're going
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: to get into college basketball, those are the things that
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: you're into. And it just gets a little bit weird
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: when it's just like, Hey man, found this dude from Turkey.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: He said he could, he said he could come next week.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I get why people, um, embrace and, um,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I have reverence for that sort of mythology around college basketball.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: But it's not just mythology, though.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: But it's always been like, I mean, even the guys,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: like you said, Stackhouse was only really there for two years.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: It's very few dudes that are like Marcus Fizer, where
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: they're there for a whole four years. You know that
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: they've probably got a limited ceiling in the NBA, but
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: you can... they spent their four years there. You saw
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: them grow into become a productive player and they leave.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I think there's way more of those than you are
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: acknowledging there. I think the national champions over all these
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: years have typically been teams with those kinds of players.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's what, so that's the thing. I'm like,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: what does it, what enjoyment does it actually take away
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: from anybody that Alabama has a six foot 10 guy
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: coming off the bench who spent a little time in
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: the G league? I don't like, how does that actually
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: affect your enjoyment of the game?
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: I don't, It wouldn't affect mine.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: And I know you said that I'm not a college
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: basketball fan and I'm really, I'm not. I mean, I'll
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: watch the March Madness like the rest of y'all, but
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm a University of Houston fan, you know?
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: And so when University of Houston is good, I get
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: behind that.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, and this kind of shit is right up Houston's alley.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: Houston is all about, oh.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: That right.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: There's some way we can finagle this?
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hey, man, we can make that work.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: You want to come through? You know what I'm saying?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: We got to wrestle for the next three months.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I would want that. I guess the thing is, is
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: that I guess I'm just kind of tired of the
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: complaints about college.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Sports, man.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: So this is what I noticed about you, and I realize,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and it worries me when you talk about this.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: You're not arguing the points no more. You're just arguing
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: against the people.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, because I just think that, like, people have...
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: There's a cottage industry of just complaining about college sports. And, like,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: the players don't have any loyalty. Or the players, now
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: they're too old. We don't want them in here. Or
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: the players are too young, and I wish they would
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: stay long enough.
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: Like, it just.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: The guys that play college basketball, the labor force that
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: is involved, they can never do it right.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: It's always wrong. Whatever... Whatever, either.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: They're not staying long enough, they're staying too long, they're
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: all about money or whatever, all that kind of stuff.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: They didn't get better. The motivations are changing. I'm just like,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: why don't you all just enjoy basketball? I just like basketball.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this question. And I was talking
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: specifically about me. You don't think that I am arguing
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: that the players are doing something wrong here.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: I don't think you are.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, so there's a level of the argument that goes
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: beyond that.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Because I get you to a degree. I see you
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: give fervent.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Defenses online of AAU basketball that the people that I
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: trust in youth basketball would never dare entertain at this point.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: I think these systems are broken.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of these discussions are
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: about the systems and not necessarily putting the blame on
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the players. Like the transfer portal situation. The transfer portal
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: is out of control. They've got things that they are
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: going to need to figure out about how this works,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: because no matter what the reason is, no matter whose
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: fault it is, all these guys left standing with no
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: chairs when the music stops playing becomes its own issue.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Don't you think that that's the NCAA's fault, and that
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: is the administrators' and coaches' fault?
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, I agree.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: They can do something about that.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Right, but acting like it's not a problem... Ignoring the
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: problem in the name of defending the players, I think, is.
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: What is the problem?
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: To me, there are a couple of problems.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Number one, the advice economy around college football in particular
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: is underdeveloped and leaving players in incredibly vulnerable situations. To me,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: right now, the biggest problem that is not discussed enough
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: is the fact that a lot of these NIL contracts
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: are entirely one-sided. I think these players are like that's
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the thing that happened with this kid at Duke. Like
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: if you go look at the quarterback that's going to
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: go to Miami, if you go look at what that
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: contract was, he never had a chance in trying to
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: challenge that. Like it was very much so all the
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: power in that contract wound up going to Duke. That's
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: a huge problem. But that is also part of the
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: advice economy. that I think is being negative toward players.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I do think a lot of these guys are being
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: advised just to go try, because look, this is the
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: one chance to put them to get money in many cases.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And so somebody tell you, we think you can get
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: a little bit more money over here.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: You might be able to get a little bit more
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: money over there, but this thing is so unregulated that
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: I don't think you're necessarily winning by making these moves
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: in that way. Is it the NCAA's fault?
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, because at every turn, they beg somebody else to
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: solve their problem for them. But it doesn't change the
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: fact that within that construct, it's a lot of people
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: on a lot of sides making a lot of bad decisions.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Which is their God-given American right. But I would like
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: to find ways that they didn't have to make bad
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: decisions because they're not all getting fucked over by their
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: coaches and getting forced off of their scholarship.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: They're not all, but I think that that is an understatement.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: It's underreported and under told story of this, though.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: And I think that it is very much in the
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: interest of the power brokers in the sport to make
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: it seem like it's players chasing money rather than the Deons,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: the Kenny Dillinghams, the Kurt Cignetti's turning over there.
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: How do you think a team gets good?
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Like for one year to the next like they're turning
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: over these rosters like when Deion first did it at
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Colorado it was just sort of like wow they've got
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: like 80 different players this year how did they do
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: that and he was very clear about what he was
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: going to do it and how he was going to
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: do it right that is like kind of the expectation
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: when you bring in a new coach now that you're
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: just going to turn over a roster right so you're
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: putting a whole bunch of guys into the system right
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: now and I don't think I think that that is
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: happening a lot and more than people give credit for.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: I think that if the system was.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Such that college football players didn't have to compete for
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: their spot every year, every year, and my co-host Van
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Lathan said this on the show, if you are an
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: FBS player, every year you're competing for your spot against
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: everybody else in college football. There's no telling where your
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: competition is going to come from. If you were a
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: middling right guard in Vanderbilt, You have no idea if
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: they're going to buy somebody and come from Florida to
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: take your spot or maybe somebody from Murray State will
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: come up. There's a good prospect to take your spot.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Everybody is sort of on a one-year timeline. And so
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I just think that, like, yes, is it ideal? No.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: But I think that, like, there.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Is a way that these teams– and the NCAA could
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: change it and make it a more favorable situation for everybody,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: but they don't want to do that. And I think
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: there's an element of them liking this chaos because they're
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: hoping that Trump and the Congress are going to come
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: in and save them.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: That's always been the case, right?
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: But I also think two things can be true at once, right?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Which is, yes, there is definitely some roster turnover that
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: is taking place.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: And there are.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Also questions to be asked about And this also comes
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: up in the NFL with the discussion of guaranteed contracts,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: whether you could really have a properly functioning economy of
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: labor in that sport. Given certain levels of guarantees.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: So much so much change is so fast. The injury
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: risk is so much higher. And players like getting really
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: good out of nowhere. And what comes with that?
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Like this? It's it. It's not as.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Simple as we would all prefer for it to be,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: I think is the way that I would put that.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: But I do agree.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Like Dion came in and told everybody, there ain't going
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: to be no place for you here. We'll help you
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: cut up your tape and we'll help you send it out.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: But there's not. It ain't for you here. You're right.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: That part does happen. I don't think that part is
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: as under discussed as you think it is. I don't,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: but I don't, I think this is the feeling that
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I don't get the feeling that people are blaming players.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I get the feeling that people are blaming the adults
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: around these players.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: And I think that that's what all of us are doing.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: No matter the side, Whether the adults be coaches, whether
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: the adults be whoever the advisor happens to be, wherever
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: it comes from, I don't know how anybody can be
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: expected to get good advice. Because the game is so
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: big and so spread out. So the idea, when you
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: talk about if you're an FBS player, you're competing every
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: year for your spot. You're not just competing against the
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: FBS guys. Trinidad Chambliss is over there at some school
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: that you've never heard of.
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Like ready to get you.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: That's right. Yeah.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: And all the transferring to me, what is bad about
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: it is the losers wind up being the players, but
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: you're also right. If you're a quarterback, they looking at
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: another one. There's a, there's what you say. Also, I
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: wonder there is also to a degree, some chicken and
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: egg going on here.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Um, The coaches are looking because they can get better,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: but also at the same time, you also got to
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: look because there ain't no telling when this dude might
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: vamp on you.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, I mean, like, the Duke and the Darion
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Mensah situation is like a really good illustration of this.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: They're really mad, man. Miami came in and strong on
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: the Mate quarterback. They did that to Tulane the year before,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: and they going to do it to somebody else to
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: bring somebody else in to replace Darion Mensah, including recruiting
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: over a high school quarterback that I'm certain that they
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: recruited and said, hey, you don't get a chance, you
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: might get a chance to play. but they're going to
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: bring somebody else in. And so, yeah, that is the
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: chicken and egg part of it. And that's why I'm like,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: if the NCAA and all these coaches and everybody wanted
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: to change this, the dynamics here, they would do it.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: They could do it.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: I agree with that.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: It is within their power to do it and to
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: advocate for a better workforce system.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: But they don't want to do that.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. And I also say this one, though.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: They brought somebody in over me. I don't have no
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: sympathy for that one.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: All right, Doc, that's... That's the game, right?
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, bro, that's, I mean, anybody that's an athlete
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: and you, you know, like, cause they always talk, you know,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: and this, this is maybe just another straw man or whatever.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Like kids don't want to compete. Kids want participation ribbons.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: They don't want to fight. Look, bro, from the time
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: you start playing sports, you know, who's better than you.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: You know what you got to compete against. You know
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: that like, Hey man, somebody might be taking my spot.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Like you're, if you're in sport, you're always sort of
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: aware of that. And so, yeah, like I don't, It
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: does suck if a kid does, they bring somebody in
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: over you, but you know that like, if you don't
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: perform and this kid is better than me, you also
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: understand coach has.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: Got a plan.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: Well, hold on.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I do think, I think saying they don't want to
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: compete is a fair hypothesis to explore.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: But this is, here's what I'm saying. Is there anything, man?
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: You don't want to hear some of this, but some
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: of this is real.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: Go ahead, go ahead.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: But this is the part I do think that you
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: would agree with. And this is not something new. This
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: has gone on for a really long time. which is
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: all this maneuvering to find a place that you can
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: play right now, right? And this goes on in high schools. Hell,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: this goes on in middle schools. Like, oh, I'm not
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: the starter right now at this place. Okay, well, I'm
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: going to go somewhere else where they are going to
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: wind up making me the starter. Like, the game is
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: find the path of at least resistance in this. There's
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: something to that. Now, there's some schools where you go
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: look at the depth chart. Like, USC used to be
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: like this. It's going to be three five-star quarterbacks on
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: this depth chart, right? And if you are the number three,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: but you are a junior and the other two are sophomores, hey,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I get it. You might need to go somewhere else, right?
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: The days of DJ Shockley sitting behind David Green for
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: three years, right?
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: That's gold. T.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Martin. But I make the argument for a lot of
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: those guys and where I think they mess up and
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: they get it wrong, man.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: You only need one year of film, man.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Like this idea that you got to go somewhere else
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: in order to get this done.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: But yeah. How am I going to get my money though?
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: Well, we'll see. But now we'll see.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: That is where this, but see, that's where this is
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a black box situation, right? Is
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: what is the money that you're getting for not because look,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: if you, especially with quarterback, let's just talk about quarterback.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: If you talk about playing an NFL long game, then
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: that money's the money you need to be thinking about.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Right. So let's try this.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: An interesting case in the transfer world was when Jameson
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Williams left Ohio State and went to Alabama.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: You couldn't blame him, right? He was Ohio State's number
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: four receiver.
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: And he was a top 15 pick.
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: But if you was like that number three Ohio State receiver,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I know you're going to get your bag if you
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: just stick around here. I know it's going to work
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: out for you because I've seen what they've done for
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: these other cats.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: But do you know what changes the equation for that
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: number three receiver? And I'm not saying this is right
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: or wrong, whatever. Oh, man, my receiving coach ain't here
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: no more. My offensive coordinator has changed. I don't know
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: if I have a great relationship with the quarterback that's
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: going to be throwing me the ball this year.
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: Things are changing everywhere all around you.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: It's just like you're not necessarily making decisions just for yourself.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: You're looking at the situation around you and be like, well, shit,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: they're going to bring in two more five stars, Chris
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Henry Jr.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: Coming in. Somebody else is going to be calling plays
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: this year.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: So like some of that I could get, right?
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: But I would like to know how many of these
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: cats is rolling somewhere else for like another hundred grand.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: And I would say that in many cases, and it's
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: easy for me to say because I don't need that money.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: But that's not for that money that I need the money.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: It's not for the kid. You understand what I'm saying?
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: There appears to be a short-sightedness in some of the
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: decisions that are being made on all sides.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: I need all my bills paid right now. And my
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: mama might need all her bills paid right now. And
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: I may not be able to bank on waiting eight
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: years into the future where I can make my second contract.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: You have a finite amount of time. To take advantage
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: of all this stuff.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm telling you right now, but these boys
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: that we are talking about in large part, all of
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: them are leaving a place that has given them enough
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: money to pay those bills that you described to go
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: to another place. And some of these cats is going from,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: and of their own volition, some of them, not all,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: but some of them are going from being able to
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: pay their mama's bills to not being able to pay
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: their mama's bills on the basis of a bad decision.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: And so that's why I say this has become professional sports,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: but these are not pros. And the people advising them
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: by and large are not pros.
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: Man, I hear you on that.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: And I know that you come from a good place
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: with this because you've also had experience with these kids
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: on like a really intimate level.
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: Like you've worked with college kids at that level.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: But- Man, we just don't worry about tennis players, golf, 18-year-olds.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: Because they're already rich, Joe.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I just feel like it's kind of like patronizing to
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: spend all this time worrying.
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: About 18 and 19-year-olds.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: You asking me why I would worry more about the
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: boys that play football than I would worry about the
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: boys that play golf?
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: Okay. Let me ask you this question.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Do you really believe that coaches, like the college football coaches,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: have a better sense and are more invested in the
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: kid than the people that are around this kid and
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: have brought them up and have spent money for them
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: to do quarterback training, go to this camp, go to
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: this camp.
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, like.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: No, I don't, but I'm not arguing against the coaches.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I'm arguing against the point.
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: I mean, I guess.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Like I'm saying, the advice economy around this is shaky.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: Like... Think about it. There are guys in the NFL
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: who don't have good agents.
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: Okay. So who the hell you think is advising these kids?
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: That's a great point. But that is a problem of life.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily because the transfer portal has done this or anything.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: No, but we're here now.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: I think that on all sides of it, no matter
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: who we're talking about, If you stop arguing the side
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: and look at where we are, there's enough to go around.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: But I don't think it's as skeptical and cynical as
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: I am about the coaches and the administrators. That ain't
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: changing the fact that there's a lot that everybody got
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: to get right about this.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: If you're a coach or an administrator and you watch
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: the Beaumont Jones show or you watch the Ring of
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Tailgate show, here's what I want you to do. Advocate
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: for collective bargaining. That's what I want you to do.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Let's formalize this. Let's make this a more equitable and
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: stable system for everybody. You can do that instead of
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: getting on TV and complaining and hoping that your daddy
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Trump is going to come in and save you.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: So basically what you're saying, though, and this is the
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: biggest sticking point is make the players employees.
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, bro. I mean, they're getting paid now. I mean,
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: they are employees.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I understand you. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: but that's to put that in other terms. That is
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: what it is. But I'm gonna tell you this.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Though, collective bargaining for all of these children, you won't
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: talk about herding cats. Like this is- It's gonna be tough.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like pro football, for example, they can
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: barely get anything done because they basically have four different
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: classes of players.
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: Um, who are the, like, who are the members that
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: vote for this? Who do you decide?
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: How do you decide who's going to be in charge
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: of all of this? Like, I agree with you that
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: that is the best solution. I think that people who
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: say that undersell what it'll take to arrive at said solution.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: And all of this has happened.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Because instead of planning for this over the years, they
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: just kick the can, kick the can, kick the can.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: And now it's such an unwieldy mess that I don't
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: know how you wind up fixing it.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: This doesn't seem sustainable. I mean, this doesn't seem any easier.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So we might as well
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: start moving and advocating toward what is inevitable. Don't you
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: think that that is actually inevitable, what we're talking about,
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: that they're just going to formalize these working relationships and
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: make them employees? That's going to happen eventually. And every
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: day that they don't push for that, we're wasting time.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I have no idea when that day is
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: actually going to come. Because I don't know what it'll
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: take to arrive at that place. I mean, look, they
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: just got to a place where teaching assistants could unionize, right?
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: But this collective bargaining we need to take, is it
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: on a school level? Is it on a national level? Like,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: when you envision it, because we saw what happened with Northwestern.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: tried to go down that road um like yeah this
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: is these games were never intended to be about this
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: much money that's like that's that's really fundamentally what it
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: comes down to is that the economies that have sprouted
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: up around this were never intended to be what they.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Are that's right i'm just the thing is i that
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: is true but now that it is i don't just
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: want the coaches and i don't just want the athletic
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: directors and all the little patronage jobs that the, that
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: the black at mostly black athletes never have access to.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: They don't hardly, very few of them get to go
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: on and be the assistant athletic director or the, this
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: person working in the athletic department or whatever. And so
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: like now that, that now that football has grown and
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: it has become this huge, uh, a billion dollar industry.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: I want them to get every dollar that they're owed
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: because I know that they're only going to be, they're
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: going to have to claw it out of the people's
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: hands and out of their banks.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: So that's what I want. I hope they get it too.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: I just need you.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much you, you a dominoes player.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: You know, so.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: So just say no.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: No, look, I'm going to just give me, give me,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: let me tell you a story.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: Just, just, just.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: I'm going to shout out my boy.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: And you know him because you work with him with
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: that Fudd record.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's a yes or no question, brother. I, I
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: don't play regularly.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: I've beaten people. Just five words.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: All money ain't good money.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: I want money, though. All money ain't good money.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: Let me figure out what part of the money is
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: going to be bad.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Look, everybody has the right to make bad decisions, right?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: I'd just be feeling like you'd be trying to defend
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: bad decisions just because you don't like the other people.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: I don't like the other people, but also let me
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: have the money and then we'll figure it out from there.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: I want the money first. It's better for me.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: To have the money than Lane Kiffin.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: But if you have to make a bad decision in
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: order to get the money and figure it out, the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: figure it out part needed to happen before the money sometimes.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: I just don't want the money. Yeah, I say this
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: to somebody who's broke. So maybe that's.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: My- I can't even lie. I wasn't going to say
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: it out loud.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm broke.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: But I was like, ah, yes.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: I'm talking to the broke person.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: I was about to say, I was so hardy. Ha, ha, ha.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: Listen to that broke Negro mentality.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, look, man, everybody can't go to Barbados.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's easy for me to, oh, man,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: in that Barbados trip, I'd scoff at that now. Yeah,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: it's easy for me to be looking at people being like, oh,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: money ain't good money, though.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: You're like, yeah, I bet it ain't.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: I bet it ain't. Well, give me some of your
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: bad money then, dog. How about that?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. $ 15, 000 would change my life. I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: would take.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: It right now. $ 15, 000 would change your month.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I would appreciate that month a lot.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you would.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: I know. I understand.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: I understand. Joel Addison.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Check him out on the ring of tailgate. Check him
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: out on the press box. Hopefully, by the time you
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: get around to checking him out, he will have stopped.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: I invented it. I can do it. You know what
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: I'm saying? It's a gimmick. I get it.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry I'm not as famous as Go Money. I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: ain't never had.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: An HBO show. I ain't never, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: I used to carry the big gold belt on national television, okay?
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you, it's game recognized game. It's not. I'm
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: just telling you that we need to get you something
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: a little bit stronger.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: You don't like to raise the roof?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: You don't like to raise the roof? Okay.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: It's not even just the raise.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: If you were doing the two-hand raise the roof, maybe
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: that would be one thing, but you got a whole wind-up.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: You do the Dante Culpepper, and then you raise the roof.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: There's a story behind that, because the two-hand one is
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: not the version that I founded, and it was perverted
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: when it went national.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: But on the south side of Houston, they know.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: Who is they? They.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: South side of Houston. Shout out Drumstick. Shout out Jamaica, Jamaica.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: Shout out Oasis.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: Shout out... Is it Chocolate Town? Chocolate Town's on the
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: north side.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: Chocolate Town's on the north side.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: North side, yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: You remember Bust Down?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: Bust Down.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: Bust Down, dude from New Orleans who had that song.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Nasty.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: I once saw him at Chocolate Town. I was 17
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: years old. I saw him at Chocolate Town. He was
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: opening for Slim Thug.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Who was also 17. I would like to point out.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: You had no business being in there, man.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: Like I said, Slim Thug was performing. He was also 17.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just, I mean, it was, that was, man,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: we didn't even say nothing about Michael 5,000 Watts, dog.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: Rest in peace. Rest in peace, Michael 5,000 Watts.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you, the importance of 5,000 watts and
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: that whole Swisher House thing was, that was legitimizing that
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Northside life in a way that really hadn't happened up
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: until that point, right?
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like there weren't rappers that was from the Northside, right? But, nah,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: having Swisher House, game change.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: I think it brought the city together in a way,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: Overall, Swisher House had better rappers.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: I'll give you that. I'll give you that. I'll give
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: you that. There we go.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: Shout out to Paul. Shout out to Hakeem. You know
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying?
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: Oh, damn.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: I completely forgot about this. And we're patching this into
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: the podcast. I don't even know where we're patching it in,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to ask everybody this until.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: I get bored with it.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Joel, what would be the funniest name to turn up
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: in the Epstein files?
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: I say Tim Tebow. Oh, wow.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: That's a really good one. That's a really good one.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: You know, it wouldn't be funny if... But I would
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: love to see him have to talk to Tom Brady.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: I would love to.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: See Tom Brady have to talk to Tom Brady.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: You're right. It wouldn't be funny. It would be, ooh.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Like, Tom.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: Hey, I tell you this. Oh, I forgot.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Epstein was the Democrat, because I was about to say,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit surprising Bill Belichick ain't turnt up
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of his homies in there.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: We could play this game for the rest of our lives.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Funny names to turn up in the Epstein file.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Look, man, I've been going through it just every now
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: and again. Like, oh, let me put that name in there.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: I got one. Lou Holtz. Ugh.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: Oh, man. Man, and you know what? That is his crew.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: That's his squad.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: That's his squad.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: Man, look, because he was on some America First thing
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: with folks.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: That man lost his job doing a commercial for Jesse Helms.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, he has died in the war for this shit, bro.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: And look, and the funny thing about this for people
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: that don't know, He lost his job at Arkansas.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: Arkansas.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: Arkansas. It was a different time. It was a different time.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Well, for one, they wanted to fire him anyway. I
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: think that's the important note. But also, don't forget, Lou Holtz, broad. Black-ass,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Prop 48-ass Tony Rice to win a national championship at
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Notre Dame and hired Charlie Strong as defensive coordinator in South.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: Carolina in 2001. I say all that to say it's
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: just a little weird out here in these football streets.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: People are complicated.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: It's weird in these streets.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: People are complicated.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: I got a homeboy that played for Holtz in the 90s.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: He's from Missouri City.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: He's a legend.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Jimmy.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: Jimmy Friday. That's right.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: And I hope I'm not talking out of school, Jimmy.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: But I think it's complicated, like how he feels.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: About Lou Holtz. Yep.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: But keep thinking. Next time, I'll ask you for another
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Epstein day. I'm going to start preparing people for this.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: I'll be ready for it. All right.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: on The Right Time. We do this four times a week.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Ryan Brumley handles everything behind the scenes.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you, sir.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Hit the voicemail line, 323-596-7767. Remember, follow The Right Time. Subscribe, like,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: a hater.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: And we'll talk to you guys in a couple of days.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: Take it easy.