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The (X) Hamster Files - Squeeze (featuring Agent Morris) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:25
None. Agent Morris, how are you?
0:33
I'm back. You tried to get rid of me, but
0:35
I'm here again. I thought I left you filing in
0:38
the basement. I am appropriately like tunes
0:43
who you think is under lock and key but then escapes.
0:47
I can't help but notice, you know, behind you just sort of
0:49
right there, don't turn around, but some screws are coming out
0:53
of your wall in a very sinister fashion.
0:56
Oh no. Has the noise of a screw ever
1:01
been this disturbing? No, I like to think I watched
1:05
this first when I must have been, I don't know, 8 or 9 or
1:09
something like that whenever it was available on VHS in the UK.
1:12
That's the mad thing is this is clearly not suitable for
1:16
children. But it was.
1:17
So. Accessible.
1:19
I don't know. I didn't check what when the VHS
1:22
came out but I did check with my friend whose video it was and he
1:25
definitely had a it was Squeeze and Tombs on one video.
1:29
So this is the first X-Files episode I watched.
1:32
Devil. Yeah, yeah, you.
1:34
Were hooked. Jesus Christ.
1:36
Yeah, this is what I thought X-Files was.
1:39
It's half of X-Files, but not the other half.
1:42
Weren't you traumatized by this? I was absolutely sure.
1:45
I like I. I put this on 2 days ago and I
1:48
could feel the fear that I felt in the first scene way back in
1:53
the day. Like it's just in me that that
1:56
certain images and certain ideas in this first and second series
2:02
will chill me to the bone for the rest of my life.
2:05
Yeah, it was definitely too early to be watching it, but
2:07
it's also that kind of age where you're trying to push the
2:10
boundaries a little bit transgressive in terms of what
2:13
they show. But it's also still a mainstream
2:16
TV show, so it's nothing crazy. It is creepy more than it is
2:21
anything else. Basically, you're saying you was
2:23
being naughty. Yeah, you wasn't supposed to be
2:25
watching it, but you. Oh yeah, Mike's parents didn't
2:28
know what was going on. With me either, I'm afraid.
2:33
Well, look, we haven't actually said what we're here to talk
2:35
about. And that is the episode 3
2:38
squeeze written by James Wong. And oh good grief, hang on, cut
2:44
this bitch. Glen Morgan.
2:46
Glen Morgan and James Wong, who I don't know if this is their
2:52
first TVI know this is very early TV for them.
2:55
And then they go on to spectacular success with Final
2:58
Destination and Movies. So this is sort of like their
3:02
their little step up the ladder and their courageous sort of
3:06
rockets after The X-Files. I think you can tell that they
3:09
know what they're doing as a pair of writers in this.
3:13
And not to say it's all on the money, I'm sure we'll get into
3:17
that, but it's a very solid bit of work.
3:21
Solid as in. It feels like an episode of TV.
3:26
The imagery is what takes it above and beyond that there.
3:30
Some of it feels a little creaky now, I think it's fair to say
3:35
over 30 years later, that's just what happens.
3:38
But these guys know what they're doing as far as constructing an
3:42
episode of television. Can I ask you a question about
3:45
90s television because I have such a nostalgia for 90s TV,
3:49
Because I think this is where I think I said to you before I I
3:53
developed a lot of my sort of critical faculties are absorbing
3:57
loads of genre TV in the 90s. Like do you have a warm glow for
4:02
the 90s? I think I do I I sort of
4:06
question the extent to which I enjoy archive television.
4:10
Is that a good thing that I just?
4:12
It's my happy place to dig back into things I know I already
4:15
like, But then it's entertainment, so what's the
4:18
harm really? Hang on, that makes me want to
4:21
ask you. Do you actually watch a lot of
4:22
new things then, or do you tend to?
4:24
Just I struggle, I do struggle. I struggle with newer things.
4:29
Well, I don't get too deep psychologically into it, but
4:33
these days there's often two years between ATV show.
4:37
You might get 8 episodes. You could watch those in a
4:40
couple of days and then you're done.
4:43
So you don't really form the attachment.
4:45
I think we said this last time about the pilot is that these
4:48
things were on for half the year is that many episodes.
4:51
So you really do form that attachment with the characters.
4:54
So I think that's why people keep going back to those sitcoms
4:58
like The American Office and that kind of thing.
5:00
It's because they get that attachment to these characters.
5:03
And that's only really possible if you're doing this amount of
5:06
television. I, I think that's why I watched
5:09
so many different shows in the 90s, you know, is that so that
5:12
at some point of the year there was always something on every
5:14
week? Because if it was I was just
5:16
watching The X-Files, the other half of the year would be
5:18
absolutely agonizing where I had nothing to look forward to.
5:21
Yeah, that's fair. And I, you know, I just had to
5:24
devour TV at the time. Well, this is our first stand
5:28
alone monster of the week episode.
5:31
Now a little birdie, that was you by the way, told me in the
5:34
pilot episode, this is your favorite type of X file.
5:40
Yes, because it is one you can just stick on an episode and
5:44
find it purely enjoyable on its own terms, right?
5:47
That's the benefit of this format.
5:50
I think they get it right pretty much out of the gate in terms of
5:52
what they're trying to do with this as well.
5:56
What I found interesting is that this is getting into the realms
6:00
of like urban myths and that kind of thing, right?
6:04
But they don't, in the first instance, lean on anything
6:07
familiar like Bigfoot. Right from the beginning,
6:10
they're creating their own mythology.
6:12
Even with the alien stuff, a lot of that is borrowed, as far as
6:16
I'm aware, this kind of thing, what tombs is a stretchy man
6:22
quite in this form, has not existed before.
6:25
I mean, there's like Fantastic Four and that kind of thing, but
6:28
not as a as a figure of horror. So it feels like that's really
6:33
where they're taking their step forward in terms of becoming
6:36
their own thing. I think perhaps Inspector Gadget
6:38
had the ability as. Well, OK, well, first there was
6:41
Inspector Gadget and then Squeeze.
6:44
Yeah. Well, then Fantastic Four, then
6:46
squeeze. Yeah, Fantastic Four.
6:47
Yeah. And this is the first.
6:52
The second is the Jersey Devil, right, which I'm gonna just say
6:59
spoiler alert, it's a dog of an episode, all right.
7:02
And then the third one is Ghost in the Machine, which I quite
7:06
like, but I don't think is great.
7:08
And then the 4th 1 is ice, which I think is another absolute
7:11
banger. And interestingly enough, that's
7:14
when Morgan and one come back. So like I think, I think they
7:19
straight off the bat, they know how to do these, these monster
7:24
of the week episodes. This is their their sort of
7:27
field. This is their expertise.
7:29
It is. And where we said last time that
7:33
they were established, establishing the series as a
7:36
procedural, this is the real first one where you get a police
7:39
procedural. It operates entirely like a cop
7:43
show. They go through all the steps
7:45
that you would on a normal police show, except the person
7:49
who's committed these murders is a freakish mutant man.
7:53
The funniest thing was, you know, the bit where Scully's
7:55
doing the profiling, you know, and all of the men are around
7:58
the table were absolutely bewitched.
8:00
I mean, you would be it's Gillian Anderson after all, even
8:03
in those frumpy clothes. And we're going to talk about
8:05
that in this episode. And but she's, I've must have
8:09
watched too many of these detective shows Now the, the,
8:13
the bio that she gives on tunes, it's so basic.
8:17
She goes, well, we must have daddy issues.
8:20
And you know, you probably go back to the scene of the crime.
8:23
And I'm like, I could think that up.
8:26
I haven't gone to Quantico, for God's sakes.
8:29
I have to think it was a more general audience they were
8:33
trying to approach those days. Softly, softly, you know.
8:37
I think as they go along though, they sort of realise the
8:41
audience is a bit more sophisticated than that and the
8:45
the procedural stuff, it gets a little more substantial.
8:49
Yeah, there's there's a mixture of the stuff that I found fun in
8:53
this, like the fingerprint. Let's just get into it.
8:56
The fingerprint bit just obviously like ropey graphics of
9:00
the time, that's just how it is. But in terms of moving the story
9:06
along, that works really, really well.
9:09
Then you've got the two kind of lengthy sequences either side
9:12
that where they're scrolling through microfiche.
9:15
Oh boy. And Scully typing and it just
9:20
feels like everything grinds to a halt, like we don't need that
9:23
long with people looking at screens.
9:25
I watched this with my alpha and I went, oh, there's a lot of
9:28
this in series 1. I don't know if you remember the
9:31
episode. Oh God, it's the one with the
9:33
salamander hand. Do you remember that one?
9:35
I don't. Oh, the fellow is a normal man,
9:37
but he's just got this tiny salamander hat.
9:39
And it's very comical. And there's a whole scene where
9:42
Scully's typing out, right. And Mark Snow realizes how
9:46
boring this is, and he starts bringing in this choir going.
9:52
And Scully sort of goes to the door.
9:53
And I half expect her to open the bloody door.
9:55
There's going to be a choir standing there.
9:57
Like, there's a lot of it. Well, they're sort of feeling
9:59
their way in, though, aren't they?
10:00
Like this is episode 3. Again, they are, they're easing
10:06
the audience in to it and they are doing the, they're trying to
10:11
show, I guess, that our characters are doing the, the
10:15
police work, the grunt work that requires a doing in order to get
10:20
this case over the line. It's not particularly thrilling
10:23
OK as a viewer in 2025, but I get why it's there.
10:28
I hadn't watched anything like this though when I first saw it,
10:31
so the sort of the procedural stuff I did really love.
10:34
And whilst we're in that, yeah, we'll save Tombs till second
10:37
because there's just so much to talk about with Tombs.
10:41
What did you think about the how they dealt with Molder's
10:44
reputation amongst the other cops in this man?
10:48
They all think he's a bloody joke.
10:51
It's, well, it's on the nose. I guess it needed to be said,
10:57
You know, it needs to be out there.
11:00
You get the first couple of episodes where we hear it from
11:03
shadowy top floor types in the FBI, and then they're off on a
11:09
field mission in the second one. Don't really get that same
11:13
interaction, I suppose. So it makes sense to me that
11:17
here in the third episode, you actually find out what it's like
11:20
interacting with normal, everyday FBI officers.
11:24
I don't think I realized until this episode that Molder just
11:28
does not hide at all his beliefs, his insane theories.
11:33
Like, so how he is with Scully, that's how he is with everybody,
11:36
and that's why everybody sees him coming and goes, Oh my God,
11:39
it's Spooky Molder for God's sakes.
11:42
Yeah, they do explain it, though.
11:43
I thought that was quite a neat bit of writing.
11:45
Is that he's. Well, Scully accosts him and
11:49
says why didn't you just, you know, player by why did you ask
11:51
that stupid lie detector question?
11:53
You knew how they'd react. I love that bit.
11:56
And he puts quite a convincing case over.
11:58
He's like, well, what's the point of hiding it basically.
12:02
Well, because Toombs knows that they're going to ask him all the
12:04
questions about killing somebody, but he doesn't know
12:07
they're going to ask him. Are you 100 years old?
12:09
That's where he's going to panic if he isn't telling the truth.
12:12
And what did you think about this fella Colton then?
12:16
So Scully's like they work together, right?
12:19
And or they went to the Academy together.
12:21
That's right. They went to Quantico, I think
12:23
it's called together again, on the nose, but as well played as
12:28
you could imagine a role like that being played.
12:30
He's perfectly cast. He's he's greasy.
12:34
He's kind of like a yuppie, I guess.
12:36
He does have a very awkward line where he says he lucked into the
12:40
trades and the bombing, which now you go, OK, just one of
12:45
those things. But I suppose it is, it's right
12:50
up front. It's a bit of a caricature to be
12:53
honest, Especially then when later when he calls off the the
12:57
stakeout and all that kind of stuff.
12:58
They don't. Know the bit with him and the
13:00
Scully where she's like, is this what it takes to get to the top
13:03
coating? He goes, yeah, all the way to
13:06
the top he goes, she goes. And I can't wait till till you
13:10
fall off and land on your ass. He's never seen again.
13:15
No, it's true. Yeah, it is actually.
13:18
Yeah, He doesn't even. He doesn't take part in the
13:21
climax, does he at all? I don't think so, no.
13:23
He disappears from the story. Yeah.
13:26
Yeah, I did like that, though, and I did like that within this
13:30
episode. Mold is wrong for the first time
13:34
in this episode. And that's really refreshing
13:36
because in the pilot and in Deep Throat, he's right on every
13:40
occasion. And Scully is always the one
13:42
looking like an idiot, whereas she does his profile saying that
13:45
Tombs is going to go back to old places to recapture the highway.
13:49
And he's like, yeah, yeah, ain't coming back as spitting out his
13:52
sunflower seeds. And then he walks.
13:54
I mean, I'm not sure why he's there.
13:56
Is he there just to tell her he's not coming back?
14:00
I think so, yeah. It's our first of many, many
14:03
scenes that take place in shadowy car parks, underground
14:07
car parks in the series. Which do you think uses shadowy
14:10
car parks more? Big Finish publicity pictures or
14:14
The X-Files? Well, Big Finish has been around
14:19
for a while now, so it's getting there.
14:21
Let's be honest. And yeah, so it was.
14:26
It was nice that you got something wrong, but it was also
14:27
nice that she's sticking up for him.
14:30
So she spent two episodes giving him a hard time and going, you
14:34
know, your theories are mad and all of this.
14:36
And suddenly she's on the defensive when Colson and all
14:39
the other big boys in the room are coming for Mulder and and
14:43
she looks after me. I quite like that because that's
14:45
a different dynamics of what we've seen before.
14:47
Yeah, I think it helps that Mulder is approaching this as a
14:51
proper investigation, too. He's using the tools that are
14:54
there. He's using the evidence of the
14:55
fingerprints and that kind of thing.
14:57
And Scully also gets used to skill as an agent.
15:01
Even she doesn't quite agree with his theories.
15:03
It means that she doesn't look like a fool for believing him.
15:07
She's done her own work, and she's made her own conclusions.
15:11
And yeah, she gets to be right about it.
15:14
There was one wonderful moment where I imagined Chris Carr
15:19
watching the rushes and going, oh, my God, we've captured
15:22
lightning in a bottle with Duchovny and Anderson, where he
15:26
goes, well, well, fine. You know, I'll go, I'll you go
15:29
off and do that and I'll do this.
15:30
And then she sort of goes, oh, I don't know, my dear.
15:34
And she follows him out of the room in a really cute way.
15:36
And I was like, my God, that that chemistry is there already.
15:40
It is. And I think what's nice about
15:42
this episode, as well as sort of setting it in the real world as
15:46
it were, of for FBI investigation.
15:48
Eating mutants, yeah. Yeah, everyday stuff is that we
15:54
get an outside perspective of their relationship, which I
15:57
don't think we really had in the first couple of episodes.
16:00
That was about setting them up. And here we see what that looks
16:05
like to her contemporaries. And so you get, I suppose,
16:11
someone to compete with, compete for her affections, at least
16:16
philosophically speaking, someone from a more traditional
16:19
background. I wouldn't call him a handsome
16:22
man, but definitely. Not no.
16:25
No, but certainly a potential male partner in the professional
16:31
sense. And so that's an interesting
16:33
dynamic. They don't go too far into it.
16:35
I think it's probably too early to do the whole, you know,
16:38
romantic affection thing, but I think it's an it's a neat little
16:42
aspect of the episode that's running underneath.
16:45
Do you know what the most unsexy thing is about men?
16:48
Yeah. A particular type of men that
16:50
are hugely ambitious like Colson is.
16:53
Yeah. But just don't have the ability
16:55
to to reach those ambitions. But they still talk the talk
16:58
anyway. And you're like oh please.
17:01
And yet Mold don't even need to he.
17:02
Just feels like we we can't move with that type of man in 2025,
17:06
can we? I don't think that that sort of
17:08
man would be on TV in 2025. But yeah, moldy in comparison.
17:12
He's just so he he walks into the room and he just starts
17:15
moving evidence about and doing his own investigation and he's
17:19
immediately on all the right details.
17:20
You know, I think that contrast is quite good as well between
17:23
the two blokes. There is one larger plot beat
17:28
that get that crosses over the weird creepy vibe of Colton and
17:32
Mulder and that's when he grabs her necklace and it ties into
17:38
the trophy bit at the end right where he sees her necklace in
17:41
tombs as den. But it's such a weird bit in the
17:44
episode where they've just come out the lie detector bit and
17:48
she's about to turn away and his way of grabbing her is by
17:52
grabbing her necklace which just feels like like it crosses a a
17:58
boundary. That is weird, and I know why
18:00
they do it for plot reasons, but it doesn't feel like that is
18:04
Mulder. And I guess that's, you know, an
18:09
early series bit of awkwardness that you're going to get, but it
18:12
just doesn't land. I mean, in two episodes time
18:16
he's trying to have it off of the Jersey Devil.
18:18
Like I think they're still working their way into.
18:20
The they certainly are still working way into it.
18:22
Like, do you remember in Series 2 when his girlfriend Kristen
18:25
What'serface comes in as a vampire?
18:28
Scully's off, abducted, and he's doing all sorts of this vampire.
18:32
What is going on in these early episodes?
18:35
They find their way, they do. Find their way.
18:38
Well, look, let's talk about Tombs, all right?
18:39
That's why we're here. Really.
18:42
Now, I've got a big, big question for you here.
18:45
I'm going to give you several possibilities, and I want you to
18:48
break down each one of them for me and tell me which one you
18:52
think is why Tombs is such a successful grotesque.
18:57
Yeah, he's our first sort of mutant.
19:00
He's certainly not our last, but he's our first and probably the
19:03
most remembered of all of them, certainly one of a very few that
19:07
gets equal. So is it because of Doug
19:12
Hutchinson's boyish good looks? Yeah.
19:15
So that's sort of juxtaposition of the innocence of Doug
19:19
Hutchinson and the horror of what he's doing.
19:23
Is it because he's got a really sinister MO, tears out people's
19:28
livers and then makes a horrible cocoon out of bile to live in?
19:35
Is it because he needs, it's like an instinctive need what
19:38
he's doing rather than something that he wants to do?
19:41
Like, you know, when it's like serial killer stories and they
19:44
want to do it? I, I don't find that very scary
19:47
when it's like a need like this, like a barrage that's really
19:50
interesting. Or is it the incredibly
19:53
insidious ways he enters people's homes?
19:59
I mean the bit where he kind of bursts out of the wall.
20:03
In Scully's house, that's that. That is quite something.
20:08
That's quite a good effect, isn't it?
20:10
Like it's clever because obviously they've shown the tiny
20:13
hole and then they move the camera around so you can't see
20:16
the hole anymore. So they've obviously got a big
20:18
hole at that point and he just comes like flying through.
20:22
Yeah, they really save it for that moment as well.
20:24
And I think it delivers. Other times perhaps don't, but
20:27
that that moment delivers. I hadn't considered the Doug
20:32
Hutchison was had boyish good looks.
20:35
I'll be honest, I've. Sweet looking when you when he
20:39
comes out, he first comes out of the the ducting and he sort of
20:43
looks up and he he looks really sweet.
20:46
I don't think he looks. Sort of thing of a lost little
20:48
boy about him, I suppose. But I, I just think the
20:52
performance is so complete that I, I've never really thought of
20:59
him as I never got the innocent vibe.
21:02
I don't think you're ever supposed to get the vibe that
21:04
he's innocent. They show you in like the second
21:06
shot of the episode that he's the person.
21:08
So we know who it is. But it is a fantastic
21:13
performance. How do you do that though
21:17
without dialogue? Like he's got 5 lines in the
21:21
whole thing so it's all done with body language looks you
21:25
know? It is such a brilliant physical
21:29
performance. It's just the emotionless thing
21:33
you think would be easy. But I don't think that many
21:37
people have have done it quite as well as he has, certainly not
21:40
in The X-Files. But then it is the juxtaposition
21:43
between that and this kind of frothing, rabid nature he's got
21:49
when he's in the in the attack mode, it's so on and off, like a
21:52
light switch. That's a really frightening part
21:56
about it. I suppose that ties into the
21:58
like the biological imperative aspect that you're talking
22:01
about, that he's not in control of it, it's just something that
22:07
happens to him and he has to do it.
22:09
He, there's no thought there, it feels like.
22:13
And yet it's so thought through in terms of what he's doing in
22:19
his movements and how he goes about it.
22:22
There is the cerebral thing as well.
22:24
I think there's three immense like so successful 3 suspense
22:31
sequences in this obviously their pre title sequence in the
22:34
man's office with the screws coming out of the wall.
22:38
There's the sequence in the middle.
22:40
So they stagger this brilliantly.
22:42
There's the sequence in the middle in the man's house where
22:44
he breaks his back and goes down the chimney through the fire.
22:50
And then obviously the attack on Scully in her apartment at the
22:53
end. And this is the first time is
22:54
what we've seen actual physical violence like that towards one
22:59
of the regulars. It's certainly not the laugh.
23:01
There's a lot of this coming up later on.
23:06
Yeah. Like, so I think it is hard to
23:10
get those sort of set pieces right.
23:13
But I think they've got a great director here who really builds
23:17
the suspense well, you know, and, and, and leaves you
23:20
thinking, well, where the hell is he coming from?
23:23
Yeah, I will say I think that the first one that the pre
23:27
titles is excellent. It's probably one of the best
23:29
pre titles in all of X-Files, right.
23:31
It's you have the. Eyes in the manhole.
23:34
Yeah. That's so scary.
23:36
It's. Great.
23:38
The way the director uses the camera in that first sequence
23:42
where it kind of follows the businessman in and out of his
23:45
office and it's roaming down the corridor.
23:48
Even though that's not tunes, just that feeling of you being
23:53
like a voyeur watching this thing happen that adds so much
23:58
dread, the whole thing. And then?
24:01
He goes, Oh yeah, don't worry, I'll I'm in the office but I'll
24:04
be home soon. I'm so sorry you're just
24:06
thinking straight away. You're not getting home.
24:10
And then it does the thing where it plays with your expectations
24:14
a little bit. So you see the door crack, which
24:17
does feel really violent even though you're not seeing
24:19
anything. But then you see drips on the
24:22
floor. And of course, immediately you
24:23
think that's blood, hands up. And it's not blood, it's coffee.
24:28
But then the camera moves across the right and there's the blood.
24:32
They're so controlled about when it wants you to feel what.
24:36
And then it goes back up to the wall and the screws are being
24:38
tightened again. It's just a beautifully done.
24:41
Sequence Foley. Yeah, that the squeak of those
24:45
screws is embedded in my mind. It's an excellent piece of work.
24:50
I don't like the middle 1 then. I'm not so keen on the middle
24:53
one. Tell me why.
24:56
I like the absurdity of it. I think that's really funny in
25:00
that kind of black comedy way The X-Files does.
25:04
And they play it so straight where he's basically Santa Claus
25:07
going down the chimney, right? It's just crazy, but it it's
25:13
very funny and because of what you.
25:20
Beck is coming. It's creepy as well.
25:22
It's where you see tombs in the room and you know what's going
25:25
to happen. And then they cut to this weird
25:28
fake slow motion shot of him, like going to the guy who's on
25:33
the floor. Right.
25:34
Yeah. And it's such an odd choice,
25:36
it's. Just sort of behind him, isn't
25:38
he? Yeah, I don't, because you
25:40
already know what's going to happen the moment you see Tombs
25:42
behind him. Don't know why you need that
25:45
shot, but I'm. I'm always willing to give these
25:47
things to benefit the doubt, especially when you know that
25:49
they were filmed in eight days or something.
25:51
In these episodes, they were really quickly turned over.
25:56
It's just a couple of moments like.
25:57
That was was the the grossness of the bones cracking.
26:01
I like that. Really like the sound effects
26:03
again are so good. And you can sort of see his arm
26:06
going, you know, sort of then draping loose and then that
26:10
wonderful shot of his hands. Yeah.
26:15
Like that's a very, you know, a picture I see quite a lot when.
26:19
It's really only just a couple of shots in here that somewhat
26:22
break the illusion for me, but I will.
26:25
But I don't I, you know, that's unspoiler or anything like that
26:28
because the sequences at the in the pre titles and then in in
26:33
Scully's home at the end are so, so well done.
26:36
Do you think, do you think the threat elevates throughout the
26:41
episode? Like, I think it climaxes
26:42
brilliantly by putting Scully in danger.
26:45
Although, see, one issue I had was during that seat, a
26:49
wonderful sequence where they go into the cocoon, you know,
26:54
there's bile dripping everywhere, Absolutely
26:57
disgusting. And he takes Sculling's necklace
27:01
off, doesn't he? That sort of pulls it off,
27:03
though. I'll be like, no, like there's
27:06
someone above me clearly, but they don't seem to realise that.
27:09
That is, I think, maybe the weakest bit of the episode in
27:13
general for me. I pointed out earlier that in
27:16
order to facilitate that stuff with a necklace, Mulder has to
27:19
grab it, which just feels weird as a setup.
27:22
I mean, it's doing all this, Like I say, in terms of writing,
27:25
it's doing the things you're supposed to do is setting
27:27
something off up and then paying it off.
27:30
But also the stuff about tombs collecting trophies doesn't feel
27:34
quite right to me either in terms of his MO as a killer,
27:41
because we've been saying that what he's doing is like a
27:43
biological imperative. But the stuff about him
27:45
collecting trophies doesn't seem like it's.
27:47
Psychological imperative, isn't it?
27:50
Yeah, that's more like a standard serial killer, which
27:52
just doesn't quite feel quite right to me.
27:55
I I get it gets you to where you need to go in the store and it's
27:58
what helps Mulder realise what's happening.
28:03
You need stuff like this to move you along.
28:05
But I think, you know, when we said about having one foot in
28:09
the door of reality, yeah, I think they're still tiptoeing
28:13
that line and they don't want to leap too far.
28:16
And I mean, God, what's the most out there?
28:18
Series 1 episode. I'm trying to think so Even
28:21
space, even space with that crazy face heading towards that
28:24
man, that's all set in like Mission Control, isn't it?
28:27
I don't, I don't think they do anything too, too crazy that the
28:32
audience would go, Oh my word, what is this like science?
28:36
So. You think they want to link it
28:38
to more kind of recognizable serial killer traits?
28:41
Yeah, at this point, yes. Right, okay.
28:44
Well, I mean the series has been set up as a procedural like we
28:48
said. So it's as the audience adjusts
28:52
to that, I think then that they start experimenting.
28:55
That's when you get your first Darren Morgan in Humbug in
28:59
Series 2, You know, we'll sit inside the circus.
29:02
Oh, that's a great episode. What do you think of the
29:06
sequence after the fairly lengthy microfiche sequence
29:10
where they go and speak to that police officer?
29:14
I thought the dialogue was a bit ripe.
29:17
It's going, you know, I've seen the Kurds and all that fighting
29:22
and but there's something about tombs that the ultimate evil.
29:26
We was going, yeah, stuff like that.
29:27
It was a little bit pony that. Time.
29:30
I think they're overselling it a little bit when they start
29:33
bringing up like the German death camps.
29:35
I did think that. I did think that the actor was
29:38
quite good and I did like that. We go back to that actor when
29:42
Tombs is caught and he's just crying, like silently crying
29:46
because it's always like something has been solved that
29:49
has been left. Unsolved it has, although he's
29:53
conveniently also reading about the the Kurds on the on the
29:56
front of the newspaper as well and shaking his head sadly.
30:00
It's fine, It's just it just feels a little bit on the nose
30:06
perhaps now. I'm not sure if it's just a now
30:09
thing, if it was, if it felt like that at the time.
30:11
But again, it's just part of the the language of those types of
30:17
shows, right, That the current investigators would go and ask
30:21
an old cop of his experience. That's just a way of a
30:26
shorthand, I suppose, for the audience to get to where you
30:28
need to go. Yeah.
30:30
And like I say, not a bad performance or anything.
30:32
I'd already seen a number of films and things like that where
30:36
like you're dealing with the consequences of something that's
30:39
happened 20-30 years ago. So I've sort of used to that
30:42
premise, but I did like the idea of every 30 years going back as
30:47
far as what, 19-O2 or something like that.
30:49
Yeah. And then they mentioned 2023 as
30:53
being the the date in the distant future.
30:56
I know that sounds like I. Haven't lost anyone close to
30:58
you, have you in 2023? OK, good God, some time in the
31:02
future, which is God I. Don't know, do you like live red
31:06
onions? I don't eat meat so I wouldn't
31:11
be able to enjoy it I'm afraid. You're not living for a ripe 100
31:15
years then, I'm afraid. Sorry.
31:19
Well, this episode is directed by Harry Longstreet.
31:23
Is that a name you recognise? It is not.
31:26
No, there's a reason for that. This is the only episode he
31:30
directs. They're doing a lot of one shot
31:32
directors in series one now. They do get Kim Manners, Doug
31:39
Nutter, people like that that come in eventually and do like,
31:42
you know, 50-60 episodes apiece. I think they're trying their
31:46
hand at the moment and having done the first 3, I've got to
31:50
say Carl has chosen like exemplary directors, I think.
31:56
I wonder, well, do you know if this director went on and did
31:59
lots of other similar types, just did one shots on a bunch of
32:04
TV and stuff like that because. I always said I'd never do this
32:07
sort of thing, but let's do it while I'm on the call.
32:09
Let's do it. Let's.
32:10
Have a really slow section of you on the computer, and perhaps
32:13
you can narrate it at the same time, of course.
32:16
Actually, you know, you could sing the Murder She Wrote theme
32:18
tune whilst I'm doing the investigation.
32:20
Sad to say, I I Can't Sing it. Do you not know it?
32:23
I don't know I'm. Little, little, little, little,
32:25
little. That sounds familiar.
32:27
I certainly couldn't sing it, but we said it in the pilot one.
32:34
As well as that he only did one episode right?
32:37
He only did the pilot I think. Yeah.
32:40
So certainly what Carter is trying to do is get the style
32:43
established before he can bring other more frequent directors in
32:47
to go Do it like this, please. And this episode does a great
32:51
job of that. Even though I complained about
32:53
like one or two sequences, the the overall feel of it is just
32:58
spot on. It feels X-Files.
33:01
Well, I can tell you now thanks to the invaluable resource that
33:05
is IMDb. He didn't direct a lot,
33:08
actually, he wrote some bits as well.
33:10
But he did 3 episodes of Alien Nation, 2 episodes of Fame Fame,
33:16
one episode of Hot Pursuit. I don't know what that is.
33:19
Sex, Love and Cold Hard Cash. Only 5.3 stars for that one, so
33:23
I'm assuming it wasn't a banger. So yeah, he didn't do a lot.
33:26
What? I mean, this is a well
33:28
remembered episode. If you're going to come in and
33:29
do one, I think he's done a great job here.
33:32
Yeah, this was I think, I don't know how you you remember it as
33:37
being. Was this like The X-Files
33:41
episodes you remember? Oh, for sure, in the first
33:45
series, this and ice, the one in the Antarctic base that that for
33:51
its intensity and the performances and that crazy
33:55
woman from Desperate Housewives trying to murder everyone at the
33:58
end, Felicity Huffman. But this just for the the
34:02
suspense sequences and the horror, but mostly for his eyes.
34:05
You know, he's always coming out of the, I mean, the pit at the
34:09
end where he's in the cell and the camera just lingers on him,
34:15
smiling ever so slightly, and then on that hole in the wall
34:19
and you. He's still in the prison though
34:21
in tombs, isn't he? I think so, yeah.
34:23
And that's, that's, I'm just going to complain very slightly.
34:26
Again, in that sequence, there's a weird they follow the prison
34:31
guard walking out and then they do a fade to white and then cut
34:35
to Tombs in his prison cell. It's just a little bit of
34:38
weirdness there. I I don't know why it's there.
34:42
Somebody made that decision. It's there now I'm complaining
34:45
about it 30 years later. Just a little bit of oddness.
34:48
But otherwise, that final shot is absolutely spot on.
34:51
I tell you what isn't spot on. Mulder's little monologue at the
34:55
end, wrapping up what we're supposed to feel about this
34:58
whole situation at the end of it, about this.
35:00
All these freak. Mutants.
35:02
Bars on their window. Yeah, he's talking about home
35:05
security. That's his wrapper.
35:07
He's like, we need better alarms.
35:10
No, he's saying people aren't safe at home.
35:13
You're going to be murdered whether you like it or not, no
35:15
matter what you do. Yeah, but.
35:17
That's if you happen to encounter a freaky stretch man
35:21
Otherwise, I think you know these alarms and bars are
35:23
probably quite a good idea. It just seemed like a slightly
35:27
odd conclusion to come to. What do you think about this man
35:30
who's over 100 years old, who can stretch his body, eats
35:33
livers, hibernates for 30 years? We need to improve home
35:37
security. That seems to be his conclusion.
35:40
So I could go straight into an advert, couldn't he?
35:42
Why not mine? Yes.
35:45
It's a good thing you and me have only done a couple of
35:47
podcasts. You know, if anyone else gave me
35:49
the opening stretchy man, I would have been there in a
35:53
heartbeat. All right?
35:54
Just let you. I am restraining myself, all
35:56
right? I.
35:57
Appreciate it. You're very welcome.
36:00
You know what scares you more? Yeah.
36:01
Of these two things. Is it being observed by somebody
36:05
unknowingly or a sinister presence in your home?
36:12
Because it this episode does both of those things superbly.
36:16
I would hate to think I'm being observed without my knowledge in
36:20
my own home. God.
36:22
That's horrible. The potential.
36:25
Do you know what I have to do? Right.
36:26
And this is the genuine truth? Yeah.
36:28
If there's a bang downstairs, I'm sent downstairs every time,
36:31
like a bloody Canary. Will you go and check it out and
36:35
see who it is while he's there with the bloody lamp, you know,
36:39
in his hands? Oh dear.
36:41
We do live where I am kind of right on the edge of open
36:46
countryside, which in some ways is the least likely place you're
36:50
going to find other people. But just what if there is
36:53
someone else out there is the creepy thing.
36:55
I always imagine it's houses like yours, you know, when
36:58
people are on the run from the law.
37:00
Oh, thanks very much. They come running across the
37:02
field straight towards you. I mean I do have another memory.
37:05
I'm going to memory lane now of being in my ex mother in law's
37:09
house and for whatever reason her husband had lost his key and
37:16
I was downstairs in the half dark making a cuppa and he was
37:20
just standing at the window looking in.
37:23
Didn't knock or anything. He's just looking in at me.
37:25
I'll drop the bloody clap and smashed it Ever.
37:27
I scare the life out of me. Yeah, it is.
37:30
They're they're praying on fears that we all have.
37:34
It is. I'm being slightly facetious
37:36
with the home security thing because it is, it is cutting
37:40
right to the heart of it, like you say.
37:41
It's it's pushing what The thing is that's coming into your house
37:46
to stretch you, man. But the idea of someone finding
37:50
a way into your home is is not nice.
37:56
So. The way you're saying it, the
37:58
stretchy man, Yeah, that sounds funny.
38:00
So why isn't it funny? Because it should be ridiculous.
38:03
This. That is the great thing about
38:06
The X-Files is that in most cases it's not knowing in that
38:12
way that what you'd get later in the night, it comes into a
38:15
little bit, obviously, you know, the Darren Morgan episodes and
38:18
so on. And it's not like they're
38:22
totally earnest about it either. But it's not just weed and type
38:26
stuff where everyone's just making, you know, snide comments
38:30
or witticisms and every little thing that happens, it gives you
38:34
the chance to be scared. It allows the audience to be
38:37
scared and that's because everyone's in on it.
38:40
No one's playing it silly, especially not Mark Snow.
38:43
I want to give a shout out to Mark Snow as always.
38:46
I think this is the best score, yeah, of the three I've done.
38:49
It's, you know, the pizzicato string thing is, is a go to,
38:53
it's a, it's a. Common.
38:54
Like clanking chains. Yeah.
38:58
I mean, a lot of people nick that after him.
39:01
I don't think I'd heard it. I.
39:02
Think it was kind of a common bit of scoring language, but it
39:07
works so well because it is like the sound of the hair on the
39:10
back of your neck going up, isn't it?
39:13
So it's like the sound of footsteps in your house.
39:17
It's all these things and it's it feels like the right bit of
39:22
score for Tombs as well. I thought the score at the end
39:27
of the episode that sort of didn't.
39:29
And then that other bit comes in.
39:31
Why do I? Why don't, I mean, I can't do
39:32
it. I'll pump it in maybe.
39:34
Sorry, Mark. Oh, we've just lost him, haven't
39:36
we? I'll pump it in.
39:37
Anyway. I thought that that bit of music
39:40
was great. And that was the bit where I was
39:41
like, Oh my God. OK, They might start to lose the
39:43
audience now. This is starting to look very
39:45
Twilight Zoney rather than rather than a procedural
39:48
detective show. I don't think there's any point
39:52
here where they where they push it too far.
39:55
I think that's that's the clever thing with grounding it in the
40:00
investigation. This on this episode is that you
40:05
need something to tether you to the real world and the conflict
40:09
with the normal officers, the way they approach the
40:13
investigation as a regular crime.
40:16
Really, that's what you need, A. Question because you're a man
40:20
who's created music. Like when I was younger, I had
40:24
no idea. I don't know.
40:25
This is naive. See, on my top, I had no idea
40:28
that all of this was electronic. Yeah, it synthesised music.
40:32
I just thought it was all instruments when I was younger
40:34
because I didn't know any better.
40:35
I can really hear it now that it is sympathised now.
40:39
Now everything is orchestral, mostly on TV.
40:42
Well, it's more that like the samples they use, that's what
40:45
they call them. Samples are more sophisticated.
40:49
Funnily enough, pizza carto strings are one of those sounds
40:52
that have aged quite well as far as like electronic reproductions
40:56
go, because it's a very short sound and you can just capture
41:00
that sound, put it in a keyboard and it pretty much sounds like
41:04
what it is. But you want to talk about a
41:06
stretchy fingerprint? Yeah, I think Mark Snow's music
41:09
for The X-Files. You hear the music, you know
41:13
it's The X-Files. Whatever episode you're you're
41:15
watching, you know, because there's always ambient music.
41:18
I don't think there's a point in The X-Files where there's no
41:20
music. It's rare, I think.
41:23
It it does, it does straddle a line.
41:25
I complain a lot about wallpaper scoring where it's just the sort
41:32
of paper over the the cracks of the drama, I suppose.
41:37
But then X-Files is a very music heavy episode.
41:40
It relies a lot on underscoring, and yeah, it's very much part of
41:47
the whole feel of the show. So here we go.
41:51
I'm wrong. I don't.
41:52
Did you ever watch Twin Peaks? Yeah.
41:55
Do you know who scored that one? Angelo Badlimenti, I believe, is
42:00
his name. I think there's a there's.
42:03
A roasted if I get that wrong. Passing resemblance between the
42:06
two scores, the scores for The X-Files and the score for Twin
42:09
Peaks. They they, they are both done on
42:13
with synth aren't they? They are, and in those days, if
42:16
you were using the same synthesizer, there was very
42:19
often a chance that you'd be using the same sound library as
42:22
well. That's still possible now, but
42:24
there's so much more out there. In those days, these things were
42:27
very expensive, so you'd kind of buy the sounds for what you need
42:32
is that string sound of the early 90s is very, you know,
42:36
widespread. But they're still distinctive
42:39
enough, even though they're using those samples right there.
42:41
I would absolutely be able to say, yeah, that's Twin Peaks.
42:44
That's The X-Files. Yeah, every.
42:46
You know Marks now has his own characteristics in his music.
42:50
I mean, he went, he did right up until the revival, didn't he?
42:54
Including the revival, Yeah. So there's never a do you do you
42:57
think, do you wish there'd been sort of some variety or that
43:03
sound odd? You know, I don't think so.
43:10
There are some shows where, well, actually Doctor Who's
43:13
really the only one that used to do it in that way, I think where
43:18
they'd have different composers for each episode.
43:23
I don't think it would work on The X-Files.
43:26
I mean, if they're going to bring it back now, again,
43:29
they're going to have to get someone else.
43:30
And then I guess we'll find out quite how much of A an
43:34
impression marks no leaves on it.
43:37
I can't remember when he when it came back for the revival,
43:39
whether he used synth or not, or whether he went to like, you
43:43
know, standard instruments that we use nowadays.
43:45
I imagine he he kept to the formula.
43:49
Just using better samples would be my guess.
43:51
So you can't tell quite as easily that they are, you know,
43:55
MIDI instruments. Sometimes I wonder if it's
43:57
nostalgia, right? Is that are are these things
44:00
just ingrained in my head? It's a bit like Doctor Who's
44:03
deaf to the Daleks. I understand that on every level
44:07
as a suspense score that is a complete dog.
44:09
But because I know those cues so well from being five years old,
44:13
I still think it's one of the best scores I've ever.
44:16
That was excitement when I was younger, but actually I think
44:19
this is good music. It's certainly effective music.
44:24
It's it does what good scoring is supposed to do.
44:28
It heightens the moments it's supposed to heighten.
44:31
It's not sticking out in any obvious way, in a way that you
44:37
notice negatively. I can't really think of a better
44:40
word than that. I've got two more questions for
44:43
you then before we give a score to Squeeze.
44:46
I can't even remember what we gave to Pilot now.
44:48
We were very favourable though. My first question is, is I was
44:51
going to bring this up how television ages, and I certainly
44:55
mean in terms of the fashions in this.
44:57
What the fuck is Scully wearing in this?
45:00
I mean, I don't think she's ever looked more mumsy than she does
45:03
in this. Is she wearing a cravat at one
45:06
point? I would prefer not to comment on
45:09
the looks of a woman. And the fashion choices?
45:11
Well then, what about Mother's baggy She.
45:13
She has looked better, I'll say that much.
45:16
She has looked better. I mean, I've been, I've been
45:19
suggesting we've been sort of choosing episodes for each other
45:21
to watch across the run of The X-Files, that as later seasons,
45:25
you know, we definitely hit the early 2000s, didn't we?
45:29
And suddenly everyone's very stylishly dressed.
45:34
Yeah, this feels, I would say even from the pilot, this feels
45:38
like a frumpier episode of television, to put it that way.
45:43
It feels a little more dull, really.
45:48
It doesn't feel stylish in the way that X-Files can, but I
45:54
don't mind that. It wasn't a hit at this point,
45:56
was it? You know, when they knew they
45:57
had a hit on their hands, the fashion budget went up, you
46:00
know? I assume so, yeah.
46:02
You wait, if I'm still, you know, if I'm still holding your
46:04
hand through this series 4, suddenly everybody is tailored,
46:09
you know, to the hill and look sexy as hell.
46:12
Well, we'll see. Well, my other question for you
46:14
is this, you know, James Morgan and Glenn Wong.
46:17
I got that round the wrong way. Glenn Morgan and James Wong.
46:20
Yes. So they began The X-Files with
46:24
Squeeze. Yeah.
46:25
And they left The X-Files on the controversial classic home.
46:33
So did they start or end in a better place?
46:39
Oh. God, I mean, I was using the
46:44
word transgressive earlier. I think that's what home is.
46:47
I mean, I don't know if they would have been allowed back
46:51
after that, but that almost seems like a, a middle finger to
46:54
the American censors, right? They're almost daring the TV
47:00
network not to show that because it's just unbelievable.
47:05
It is. I mean, until if horror is
47:07
supposed to horrify you, I think that's probably the best horror
47:10
they've ever put because it is absolutely horrific.
47:15
Yeah, it's, it's almost repellent.
47:17
And yeah, any sense of them tiptoeing for the general
47:21
audience has long since gone when they get to that.
47:25
So it's there's nothing tethering you to normality
47:28
there. They're ready for movies at that
47:30
point. I think they're they're sort of
47:31
done with with these one off scripts that they're doing for
47:35
The X-Files. But along the way they do do
47:38
like do you remember? I can't say it, so forgive me.
47:41
Do you remember Die Hand Die Verlitz, which is the one set in
47:45
the school with the the school headmistress that turns into a
47:50
Python? It's people whole.
47:53
I'm, I'm not so much a fan of that myself.
47:58
I don't know why it's snakes. I don't know.
48:02
I'm not sure that any of the sort of pseudo religious
48:06
religious X-Files episodes really did it for me.
48:11
Just. Make a note to put you down for
48:12
that. One thanks very much.
48:14
Well, you can't do all the classics.
48:16
No, that's fair enough. I think this is a sweet spot for
48:22
me in terms of, I don't know, maybe a human mutant is a strain
48:26
of X-Files I really like. But yeah, they did some great
48:32
stuff. And I think in a kind of low key
48:37
way, this is as important to The X-Files as the pilot is, right?
48:44
Because because they're they're not establishing ATV show, but
48:48
they are establishing like 50% of what the TV show is going to
48:52
be from this point onwards. You would be forgiven if you
48:56
thought before the 1st scene of Squeeze that this entire series
49:00
was going to be about alien abductions.
49:03
Right. And this was, as I say, my first
49:06
introduction to The X-Files. I hadn't seen the pilot or the
49:10
second episode, Deep Throat, so I didn't even know about the
49:13
aliens stuff. As far as I can, I was concerned
49:15
this is what The X-Files was and I was more than happy with that.
49:20
Can you imagine what I was like when I saw this one?
49:22
My first was that terrible werewolf 1 and that scared me.
49:25
The bejeebus out. This one, man, I had nightmares.
49:28
Those eyes, I just kept seeing them coming out of the dark of
49:31
me all the time. Those fucking yellow eyes.
49:34
I I asked this question to you last time, I think, but how did
49:37
you feel about the pacing of it? Because that's always the thing
49:39
that dates old TVI think for for a lot of people is they don't
49:44
find it fast enough. I think you're right.
49:47
I think the 1st 20 minutes kind of zooms by, actually.
49:51
You've got the first murder, the investigation starts, there's
49:54
tension between all the characters, the second murder
49:59
and then we're taking drama Mole or whatever, he said, looking at
50:03
pre Internet newspaper, clipping zip around, interviewing the
50:10
fella about the old murders. Then we're going to do the
50:13
stakeout and it's sort of 10 minutes where it just stops
50:17
moving and Tombs does nothing. Yeah, there is that.
50:23
But what I do think carries it over those slightly creaky
50:28
moments is there's kind of a like a hypnotic strangeness to
50:33
the entire thing because of the nature of the case.
50:36
Even when you're going through these standard police procedural
50:41
bits, it's always there in the back of your mind that what
50:44
we're investigating is extraordinary.
50:48
So that at least adds a fresh coat paint and keeps it
50:51
interesting. And yeah, it's a combination of
50:54
the music, the subject matter, the imagery, which I think is
50:58
perhaps still, after all this time, some of the best the
51:01
series ever did. So even at the moments where it
51:05
is creaky, that stuff keeps you ticking along.
51:08
When they came back for the sequel.
51:09
Interestingly, there's far more humour in the second episode.
51:14
You've got that whole sequence in the second episode with the
51:16
the toilet cleaner being pulled as Tunes comes up the loo.
51:22
And there's a couple of sequences that are quite funny.
51:25
The bit where Moulder goes to the courthouse and he's
51:28
embarrassed totally as he was talking about tombs eating
51:31
livers and everyone's like, oh, get him out of here, you know,
51:34
like, so they make it a lot. What?
51:37
You know he's killed by going under the escalator, isn't he?
51:39
Yeah, and they, well, that I'm pretty sure that is a death in
51:43
that's definitely a death in one of the Final Destination films.
51:48
So did Wong and Morgan write the second episode?
51:53
They write tunes as well. They.
51:54
Did, yeah. OK, so they've borrowed from
51:57
themselves, which I think is fine, but yeah, I suppose that
52:01
is quite a comical death in a way.
52:04
We're getting way ahead of ourselves.
52:05
We're spoiling the end of. Tunes.
52:07
It's. Fine.
52:09
And it might just be a matter that they're more comfortable in
52:11
their skin, or simply that they think they did the earnest,
52:16
scary thing in the first episodes.
52:18
Let's try and make something else of it in this one.
52:21
Like, you know, to continue this theme of spoiling all future
52:24
episodes, the first episode they do in the second series.
52:29
No, it's they do the they do the opener of the second series,
52:32
don't they? Little green men.
52:34
But then they do blood, which is the subliminal messages episode,
52:38
which is terrifying but very funny as well.
52:43
It walks a fine. I think you're right.
52:45
I think that there's not a lot in this that's very funny.
52:48
There's lines that I think they mean to be funny.
52:51
And I did write 1 down that made me cringe a lot when he goes.
52:55
So what is this the anti Waltons?
52:57
I was like. Oh yeah.
52:59
Or there was another one where he goes, what is it?
53:02
How quickly can I get this off this hand before betraying my
53:05
cool exterior? I like that line.
53:07
Oh, I do. You're very easily pleased,
53:10
aren't you? It's like that line.
53:12
I think that's that's perhaps my 8-9 year old self coming out.
53:16
I thought that was very funny. I like that whole sequence in
53:19
the den. It's kind of pleasingly gross in
53:21
a way that appeals to a young boy, I suppose.
53:27
But like when they eventually jumped over to Final
53:29
Destination, because I watched that fairly recently, bizarrely,
53:33
an unimpressed group of friends. I love that movie.
53:36
I think the premise is wonderful and.
53:38
It's an excellent premise. Yeah, they executed really well
53:41
as well. I think they they've just got
53:45
the hook premise down pat at that point.
53:49
You know, they, they've, they, I think they've just got a ton of
53:51
ideas that they can pull off the tree and they can probably go
53:54
off and do 100 movies. I'm I don't ask the Google while
53:59
we're talking as well, but I definitely watched that recently
54:02
and Googled the story, realizing that they were the ones behind
54:06
it. And I just assumed, let's just
54:09
say it's fact now. That was like an X-Files idea
54:11
and they actually went no, that's that's a movie idea.
54:15
That is really I'm just saying that I don't I can't remember.
54:20
I'm just. Saying that, they probably had a
54:21
board right where they were going.
54:23
What if it's what they were doing?
54:24
Like 6 or 7 episodes a year? I think they must have seen the
54:27
value in the final destination idea.
54:29
You could have done that as an X-Files thing absolutely 100%,
54:33
but. I just remember in the first
54:35
year you basically had three main rioting teams.
54:40
You had Howard Gordon and Alex Ganser and they were the real
54:45
meat and potatoes sort of episodes.
54:46
Ghosts of the Machine like Jersey Devil, Morgan and Wong,
54:52
which was pretty much banger after banger.
54:55
And Chris Carter, who obviously did a bulk of the episodes.
54:59
And I think he's very reliable at this point as well.
55:02
He did one of the ones you love, Darkness Falls in Series 1.
55:06
I mean, that's absurd, right? That that's an absurd premise.
55:09
Again, a load of green fizzy dots that come out of trees and
55:14
turn people into massive webs. That is a you know, we're we're
55:18
saying that this is like the first human mutant, I guess
55:23
strain of X-Files story. The other ones you mentioned not
55:28
off the top of my head. I'm sure there are loads.
55:30
Well, one of the head. Yes, of course.
55:33
Brilliant. Or Leonard Betts.
55:36
Leonard Betts, Remember Leonard Betts.
55:38
Brilliant. Grows up a head.
55:39
Oh, what about Deep Roy when he used to go up people's asses
55:42
when I was on the Lou. Do you remember that?
55:45
That's a later episode. That's bad.
55:47
Bad LAR in Series 8. It was really horrible.
55:49
This fat man sits on the loo, right?
55:52
And he's got terrible indigestion.
55:55
You think something unpleasant is coming out of him, But no,
55:57
something unpleasant is going inside of him.
56:00
This is real all. Right, I'll make a note.
56:04
A series 8 paddler. They might really didn't pay
56:08
attention in those later ones. Didn't you?
56:10
No. They might have been running out
56:11
of ideas by then. But then the ones, the other
56:14
ones you mentioned, like Ghost the Machine, it's a tech horror,
56:18
technology horror thing. The other one, Jersey Devil,
56:22
they're trying to step more in the world of cryptozoology.
56:27
Bit more obvious kind of terrain, and that doesn't really
56:31
work very often for them, does it?
56:32
Until they come to Quagmire. Oh, Quagmire is wonderful.
56:37
Is that when the dog gets eating?
56:38
Well, I don't like that bad, but yes, it's very funny otherwise.
56:43
Yeah, and then they try something like space, don't
56:45
they? So they're sort of pushing
56:47
towards science fiction and they go, Oh no, we're never going to
56:50
do that again. And it's not for quite a while
56:52
anyway. Well, OK, come on, we're going
56:55
all around the houses now, talking about other.
56:57
We have. Sorry, we've been like 10
56:58
minutes away. Don't.
56:59
Care Grief. Let's give our rating then for
57:03
squeeze. Now remember it's from A plus to
57:06
F. I I feel like I gave the pilot B
57:10
plus. So I think we both did.
57:14
I'm actually going B on this. Oh.
57:17
Yeah, surprising. Yeah, the imagery is great, and
57:26
I think it's only that it feels that bit more dated, which is
57:35
not the episode's fault. It was made when it was made.
57:38
This is just how I feel about it now.
57:40
And those, those bits that do stand out as being creaky, a
57:46
word I've used a lot, bothered me a bit more, I suppose this
57:50
time. Not enough to make it a bad
57:52
episode or anything like that. And I think the most successful
57:55
sequence isn't it absolutely still work.
57:58
And they look right in line with what you'd see in TV now, which
58:04
is really impressive. But I think they do better
58:09
episodes as a whole going forward, which is not
58:13
surprising. Sony episode 3.
58:15
So yeah, I'm going to be. I'm going to do the thing I hate
58:18
people doing on podcasts and people do on my podcast all the
58:21
time, and that is listen to their nostalgic head over their
58:26
critical sense. Perfectly valid.
58:29
I know, but I want to be better than that, you know, 1000
58:32
episodes. I should be better at this.
58:35
I'm going to give this an A, an A+, not an A.
58:38
More on us. And I should tell you for why.
58:40
It's because my other half and I watched this the other day and
58:45
all of the pertinent moments. Yeah.
58:48
So the eyes coming out of the manhole cover, him jumping out
58:53
of Scully's wall, him cracking his bones down.
58:56
The we both, we kept grabbing each other's hands.
59:00
So I was like, yeah, this is having exactly.
59:02
Still works. It still works for me.
59:04
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think this is a it's it's an extremely
59:10
reliable piece of work. But sit in their stall for the
59:13
stand alone episodes. Yeah.
59:17
I think I think it's really impressive.
59:20
OK, so between us we've landed on B plus again.
59:23
Oh yeah, what are we doing next? Ghost in the Machine.
59:29
No, please God, no. What's next on the list?
59:32
I can't even remember I. Don't know, it might have been
59:33
Darkness Falls we mentioned. Oh.
59:36
No, I don't think it's that late, you know.
59:41
Well, thank you very much for this little trip down memory
59:44
lane 01. Last thing, I have to say this
59:47
because I'll kick myself if I don't, but I just have this
59:52
memory. I was so obsessed with the
59:54
sequence in Scully's apartment, yeah, that I re enacted that
1:00:00
over and over again in my bedroom because we had vents,
1:00:04
right? That blew out hot air.
1:00:05
Yeah, but I always was Scully. I wasn't tombs.
1:00:09
So don't be too scared. I wasn't the person attacking.
1:00:12
I was the person being attacked. I'm glad there wasn't a story
1:00:15
there about the fire service getting called out to rescue you
1:00:19
from a duct you'd find yourself in, but I'm.
1:00:23
Glad my mum didn't come in and wonder why I was attacking
1:00:27
myself out of the air vents. Like, yeah, it was a very
1:00:32
sheltered childhood, all right. It's fair enough.
1:00:35
I won't judge. You talk to people so much now,
1:00:37
OK? You'll have something to tell
1:00:38
Gillian Anderson when you meet her one day.
1:00:40
Oh. Fingers crossed.
1:00:41
Yeah, when she's the next doctor.
1:00:43
Wonderful. Well, thank you very much for
1:00:46
squeezing your way into this episode.
1:00:49
I see we did the thank. You very much.
1:00:51
I was going to say at the start, but I forgot.
1:00:54
Joan, I will see you next time for our next riveting episode
1:00:58
that neither one of us can remember.
1:01:01
See you then, whatever that is.