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David Keck: Surviving A Hate Crime · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hello, my name is David Keck and on October 23rd of 2014, I was a victim of a hate crime.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Some friends had called me and wanted to go to our favorite place it's kind of like our chairs.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: It's a karaoke bar and I decided to join them.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I walked in and I guess a stranger saw me and he didn't like me.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: He didn't like the way I talked, he didn't like the way I walked, the way I dressed.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe he didn't like the songs I sang, but somehow a complete stranger could watch me and actually go out of his way to talk to me, while the whole time he's planning my death.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I was at the table with my friends and I excused myself to the restroom.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: That's when my attacker came up and started talking to me.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: He showed interest in something I was wearing that I had actually designed, so I gave him a business card and continued to the bathroom alone.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: After leaving the bathroom, I joined my friends.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: We finished our drinks, paid our tab and we left together.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Surveillance cameras show all of this and it also shows my attacker leaving three minutes later.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: There are no cameras outside the door, so there's no footage of what happened from there.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: My friends do state that they've seen me drive out of the parking lot by myself.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: The next thing I remember I woke up in the hospital.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I couldn't even open my eyes.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Everything hurt.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Several years ago I was in a horrible car accident that actually killed three people in my family.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: My brother and I barely survived this car accident.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: My mother and I barely survived this car accident.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: My mother and my grandmother stated that when I woke up at the hospital after my attack, I was asking for my brother, afraid that he was hurt.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I thought we were in that car accident.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I was reliving those moments.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Little did I know I was a victim of another tragedy.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: A girlfriend came to see me and she sat by the bed and she said that I just kept saying over and over that I was only trying to help him.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So there came a point that the nurses had to ask everyone to leave the room.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I was going to have to have a rape test.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Would she believe the nurses didn't fully seal the door?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Would she believe the nurses didn't fully seal the door?
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: And another friend walked in seeing me, fully exposed, going through the rape test.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Because of him, because of a stranger.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I keep getting violated, I keep getting embarrassed, I keep getting questions asked I don't know the answers to.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I keep getting questions asked I don't know the answers to.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I have to be told that someone, as well as foreign objects, have been inside me.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: My story, which was written based off of the rapist's confession, was now being told on the news.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: The news anchor stated that I came on to my attacker sexually and that is what led him to beat me.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe how much of the story was wrong, but because it was on the news, the public believed it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: They blamed me.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I was told I should be the one going to jail simply because I went to a straight bar.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I started receiving death threats.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: People were saying they wanted to finish the job.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I was accused of doing drugs, even though there was a drug test done in the ER and it came back negative.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I started to blame myself.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe they were right, maybe I deserved everything that was happening to me.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I received a call from the girlfriend of my attacker.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: She told me that he actually used my phone, standing over my body, and called her confessing to what he had done.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: She said he told her how I was flopping like a fish out of water and he stood over me talking on the phone, on my phone until he thought I was dead.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Months after staying with my family and attempting to recover, I decided I wanted to go back to my apartment.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I wanted to live alone.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I wanted to try to find me again.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I walked in and there was blood everywhere my handprints straight down the hall where he dragged me from room to room.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Blood was splattered on the cabinets and the walls where he was kicking and stomping my head.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I cleaned up the blood the best I could.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I then went and hid knives under every couch cushion, every drawer, beside every door.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I then went into my bedroom.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I wanted to lay down.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: There was blood on every blanket and pillow on my bed.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: The blood had soaked through the blankets, through the mattress.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I had no choice but to lay down and sleep in the aftermath of my rape so I could wake up tomorrow and face another day of discrimination.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: His story gets told on the news and it's Blaming me.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: He can walk without a walker and I can't.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: He knows every detail Of what happened to me and I don't.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I get to deal with his actions daily.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I get blamed for being raped and being victimized and I get to live with his fingerprints all over me and all over my home.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Someone asked me what I would want to happen to him.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Someone asked me if I would want to happen to him.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Someone asked me if I would want him dead, and honestly, no, I don't want him physically dead, I just want him to feel like me.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I want him to feel dead like me.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: My name is David Keck and I am the host of Surviving Podcast, and this is my story 82% of all juvenile victims are female.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: 90% of adult rape victims are female.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Females ages 16 to 19 are four times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Researchers have found that at least one in six men have experienced sexual abuse or assault, whether in childhood or as adults, and this is probably a low estimate, since society doesn't want to accept the fact that women are sexually abused, let alone a man.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Some people even believe that men cannot be raped, one thing that I've always wondered that we've never discussed how you actually found out about it.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I remember bits and pieces and it was probably our friend Lisa, and just speaking with her she was worried about you and she said that she hadn't heard from you.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: You guys had some plans and when we found out, they found you and you were in the hospital.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: I remember that there wasn't a moment, and because you were in such bad condition from the moment that I heard about it, that it felt like I needed to go ahead and get to the hospital right then.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: One thing that my therapist has always said is, when people first go through a tragedy, that the statements that they make is usually the truth.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Their memories haven't left them yet, they've not blocked anything yet, and you said that all I kept saying to you was I was just trying to help.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: You were just trying to help.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: That is all you said, and I was there when you came to.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You had really regained any kind of consciousness at the point when I had gotten there and I was one of the very few people who was in the room when you did wake up.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: And when you did, those were the first words out of your mouth were I was just trying to help.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And you kept repeating it Like that was the only thing that you would say.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And just seeing you lie there, I mean your eyes were swollen, your face was swollen, you were black and blue and the trauma that was just apparent, not to mention all of the stuff that we find out later, of course, that you didn't know happened, that we'll talk later about.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: But it was very traumatic seeing this and feeling because I've always been a protector, and feeling like I didn't have any control of the situation and not being able to protect you.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: It just broke my heart.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: And I guess too that no one knew what happened, Like my family told me that when they were contacted they were told oh, your son's been beat up, so they just thought maybe I had been mugged, that someone just took my wallet from a parking lot and hit me one time and I called the cops and they had me go get evaluated.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: They didn't know what.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: They were walking in on right and were you in the room when because I know that one of the times I had woken up, brandon and I my brother Brandon we were in a car accident when I think I was 11 and he was nine and they killed three people in my family.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: And when I woke up I first thought my mother and my grandmother where my eyes wouldn't open, I couldn't see and I was not in my right mind at all.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I thought they were actually nurses.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that they were, who they were, and they said that I was asking for my brother because I thought we were in the hospital from that car accident.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Like my mind went all the way back to 20 something years ago.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: The original trauma yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I don't remember this either.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: A lot of the things I'll discuss are things that I know just from what people have shared with me.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: And so our friend, larry, told me that he actually had to go to a nurse and ask her to change my pillow because it was covered in blood where I was still bleeding, and they didn't want to touch it.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: They didn't want to do it, and I think that it goes with the stereotypes that go with homosexuals.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I wasn't getting any kind of care.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I was laying in my blood.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Larry actually had to change my pillowcase and change my pillow himself.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: And I think that may have come from when I got there.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: That was not the case.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: At least, if it were, I didn't pick up on it, because that's probably more of a train of thought that he might have versus one that I might have, because of the situation, where my train of thought at that moment was revenge, really, and because I'm a protector.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: And if there's one thing you're good at, right.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: So I just my main goal right then was to find out are you okay, are you going to be okay, are you going to recover from this and what can I do to help and fix the situation?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Because I'm also a fixer and there wasn't a lot at that moment that I saw that was wrong with the cleanliness or the sanitation of the room and I guess maybe I got there early where it hadn't been, because in all reality, lisa and I have known each other for so long.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: We probably didn't reach out to Larry for a little bit longer than we reached out to one another.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Because for her to call me, it's because if you weren't with her, you were with me and she knew backtracking a little bit, but she knew immediately something was wrong.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Because I don't stand people up, I always have my phone on me, I text, I call, someone always knows where I'm at and what I'm doing, especially if we have plans.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And we had plans and thank god we did, because that's part of what saved my life because it was like 18 hours, yeah, before my body was actually found and they said that some of the brain damage that I had, even though it was temporary, was because of lack of oxygen.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: So there's what if I delayed there?
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And there are even factors that we'll get into later that kept them from getting to me sooner.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: So those are things that I battle with.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: One of my biggest fears, even still today, even though my memory pretty much has fully recovered, other than during the trauma part, but, is when someone says hey, remember when I immediately freak out.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: The funny thing not that any of this is funny, but the funny thing about that is is that we joke about my memory too, because I do tend to black out a little and I don't remember things, and I think that, like you and I have discussed before, is part of how I cope with things and how that I may not remember everything, exactly the way that it happens, because I tend to block things out again that I can't control and I let it go because if I don't, then it consumes me.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So what I could do for you and what I can do for you is what I'm doing now and being here for you it wouldn't have happened any other way, like I said.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: And being here for you.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't have happened any other way, like I said.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: But being here for you from the minute that it happened, yeah, forever.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: We're family.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: We're family.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I remember the first time that I woke up after getting home.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I had to.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Obviously couldn't live in my apartment by myself.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I couldn't stand or walk by myself, so I stayed with my grandmother and the first time I woke up, in her bed, you had a chair pulled up right beside it.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: That was one of my first memories Going back a little bit to the hospital before I went home.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So at one point the nurses had everyone leave the room because I had to go through the rape test and I guess they didn't close the door all the way and Lisa Saint didn't know what was going on and just walked in and there I was fully exposed Another stranger between my legs doing whatever they have to do for a rape test.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: And that's one thing that has really stayed with me is I just keep getting embarrassed, I keep getting humiliated from what he did and different actions keep happening, like one time several months had passed and I had actually went to meet some friends at a restaurant for dinner and I had ordered a glass of wine and the manager, the server, went and got.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: The manager, walked up to the table and said I'm sorry, we saw the way you walked in here.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: We can't serve you.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I still had a limp, I'd had nothing to drink, I'd ordered a glass of wine with Mustang and they refused my service because I guess they didn't think I looked like I would have a disability.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And so it's all these little things just kept happening that just kept knocking me down.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: So any kind of progress I was making, when I would have to pat myself on the back because I got to stand up and pee for the first time, or when I pat myself on the back because I walked to the mailbox with a walker for the first time.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Then when I would go to Walmart or a restaurant to have a dinner and I get knocked back down and I just felt like he was always even.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Still to this day, I feel like he keeps winning.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I hope that, through this podcast and share experiences that, along with continuous therapy and everything that you need in order to get you there, is going to help so you can find some sort of not even really closure, because I don't think that's ever going to happen, because you're never, like you said, going to know the full story, and people are always going to have their opinions and their closed-minded thoughts and, hopefully, some open-minded thoughts and some amazing people that will support you through this.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I just think that you need to discuss it, just like all the victims do, and in the beginning, you weren't yourself yeah, because it consumed you so much, so much and all of your friends, even though we were all trying to support and be with you.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: It was our train of thought that getting you out back into the same life that you were in prior to this happening would be healing for you, and getting you back into those situations would probably make you come back to yourself a little quicker.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: But you kept talking about all of these things that happened.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: So tell me what it was that made it to the point that you felt like you needed to talk about it all the time.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what was about to come.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't know about the death threats, I didn't know that people would blame me and that I would be made fun of and put down, and so I had also mentioned how one of my fears is when people would say remember when?
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: So all I knew, and all I knew for sure and for the longest time, is I'm a victim.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: All I knew for sure is what had happened to me.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And you really didn't know that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And I didn't know that and that caused a lot of doubt and self-hate and blaming myself and questioning myself, when that should never happen for any victim.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: But that's what happened and where so many people were hearing the story from the news when they used the word allegedly, the newscaster that shared the story.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: She had contacted my family, wanted to come to the hospital and interview me and they were like he can't talk to anybody, he can't even talk to us.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: So she went to the police department and got the police report and that's what she based her story off of.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: My attacker told the police I tried to kill him because he sexually propositioned me.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: When I couldn't find out that never happened.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: But in his mind he thought that if he said that the good old boys from the South it would justify what he did and he would be fine.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: That's the story that gets released.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: That's where the death threat started coming in.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: That's where people wanted to finish the job because the gay guy went to a straight bar and tried to take a straight man home for sex.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: And let's talk about that straight bar thing for a moment.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: And let's talk about that straight bar thing for a moment, because what makes the difference between?
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Why do people think there are such things even today, Like why is that a label that we have to even put on anything?
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Because it's a bar and everyone, no matter what, should be welcome there?
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And I agree, but it's coming from two open-minded people, right?
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Of course, the ones that are saying it are the ones that either a have something to hide that they're embarrassed of, or they're ignorant we've made strides, but we're not there yet 100 and back to talking about it so much it was became a defense mechanism.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I felt that if I keep talking about it so much, it became a defense mechanism.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I felt that if I keep talking about it and each time a new person's around, if I bring it up, then A they can't make fun of me because I'm strong enough to bring it up myself and B I can set the record straight.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: It became a defense mechanism.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: It was the way that I could try to fix something that was completely out of my control, which was driving me insane.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I was humiliated all the time, like I would go to Walmart and this one lady and she meant nothing but love out of it.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Her motherly instinct kicked in when she seen me and she came up and she grabbed me and she hugged me.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: She's been following your story.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're doing well, but it was a stranger grabbing a victim of a hate crime, someone that went through some trauma.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: That was a huge trigger.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: But even with her, I wanted to say, just so you know, this is not what happened.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: This is the story was based on this.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: It was my way of trying to save face, because I was already embarrassed of the way that I was having to walk.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I was embarrassed of how skinny I got.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I was embarrassed of my memory, or lack thereof.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: So it was just a way of me trying to redeem myself.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: And fast forward to now, even though you still don't have all the answers and even though that you still feel embarrassed every day of specific things and different things that are happening.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: How do you feel that you have been able to get to the point where you can talk about it and where you can share this story?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I was in individual therapy for a year and from there I went to group therapy, where I'm in with several other men that are some sort of a survivor from sexual assault.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Most of them are victims of child molestation.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: But hearing their stories and being able to have that place where I can departmentalize where I share and when I share and when to release those emotions, has been healing within itself.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Emotions has been healing within itself, and I have just done a lot of reading and a lot of self loving and healing and trying to bring awareness within myself of what happened to me and what part I did play in it, and I finally came to the conclusion that you know and I said this actually for a long time but if this was going to happen to someone, at least it happened to someone like me.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: We know so many gay people that would have laid there and died because they didn't have, or they don't have, the family and friends that I had.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: That would not allow it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And if I can just change one thing, if I can just help one person, then that's what I want to do.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: So I've been wanting to do this for a while.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I don't want someone to push stop on this and feel down Like I want them.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I want to end it with some kind of positivity and someone know that there is hope, because we're all victims of this in one way or another.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: You're going to remember until the day that you die the way that you saw me and what I had to go through and worry if that's going to happen to your grandson or if that's going to happen to your daughter or if it's going to happen to another friend, like we're all victims of this.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: And we also look at it from a situation of what if I were to run into him today, like how am I going to react if I meet this man?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: How would I handle that?
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I know.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I know too, so I will always have a little bit of cash stashed away.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Good thing, because we'll need that money.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: We will need that money, you know, and it's like the courts wanted me to have some kind of piece of oh, there's a restraining order, but isn't there always just an unspoken restraining order?
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: If I don't invite you into my home, if I don't invite you into my body, or if I do invite you in and ask you to get out of my home or my body, and if you don't, then you're violated.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: And so it should be black and white, but for some reason it's very gray.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And so the courts want me to feel safe and secure that they have a piece of paper on file, and that's just not the way.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Doesn't do it for us.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: It's not ever, and when you're a victim of something and it happens this close to home, a piece of paper isn't going to make it right, right.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: We've had a lot of questions come in about my attack and how things have played out.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: So we thought that maybe we could take today and read the newspaper article that was released and a blog that we had found about it and even go over some of the comments, because I feel like doing that is going to answer a lot of the questions that's been coming in.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: But first, there were several news articles that were released during court battles.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: The lady that covered the story called me one day and told me that she had been notified by the judge that everything had to be taken down except for the very first story and I honestly, in the beginning, when this was first released, I thought it was neutral, but then, as comments started flowing in and the perspective that outsiders were taking, it really educated me on how people look at certain words.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: The word allegedly is spoken in there a couple of different times.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: It says allegedly, david sexually propositioned this straight guy.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: People aren't going to say, oh, it was alleged.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: They think oh, david hit on the straight guy.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: They forget the word alleged think oh David, hit on this straight guy.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: They forget the word alleged.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: You've made no secret of the fact that you are a gay man and the fact that he got in your car and willingly went with you and we don't even know that?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: No, we really don't, because that's the allegedly piece of speaking.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, somehow he ended up at your house.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Let's say, hypothetically, that this guy came to my house to have a couple beers and let's say I did hit on him.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Would he have taken it as far as he did if it was a woman that had hit on him that he wasn't as interested in?
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Certainly not Right.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: And people have even asked me maybe you shouldn't have hit on him, and of course evidence shows that I didn't.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: But my response to that is I'm a gay man.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not attracted to women.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I've had women hit on me, but not one time have I thought this woman should die, and there's been a time or two that I have felt uncomfortable to where I've excused myself.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I know when people rape people, sometimes it's not about the sex, it's about the control and empowerment.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: But somehow you were intrigued with something and it led you to raping me.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I've always wondered if the reason that he took it to the extreme that he did is it because he was raised to think that being gay is wrong.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: So I've always wondered is he gay?
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Did he hate me because I'm everything that he wishes he could be?
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I think, maybe to an extent I of course can't speak for him, but my opinion on anybody that brutally attacks somebody has to have a bigger reason.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And even call your baby mama.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: As standing over my body.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: This article.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: When we get to reading it, it tells that he thought he'd killed you.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: That is absolutely zero.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: There was no fear in it.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: He thought he had and claimed and said that he had, based on everything that we've heard from all the witnesses and everything.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: So that's why I think that, yeah, he probably had gay tendencies and he was probably mad at himself.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: There was probably some PTSD that kicked in.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: He was military.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: There's all kinds of things that he could have been angry about.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: One thing that I struggled with and fought with in therapy is if I would have had sex with him, because there was all these alleged stories of what if I did take him home and I had to play devil's advocate with myself.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Take him home, and I had to play devil's advocate with myself For the longest time.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I went into this self-hate part, this ugly, dark place, and thought all these people are right.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I got exactly what I deserved, because I have abandonment issues since I was a child.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: The reason I was out that night is some friends had called me because a couple of days before my boyfriend and I had broken up and of course, I go into that abandonment mode and my friends wanted to take me out to cheer me up.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I am a man that was in his young 30s and I can be promiscuous.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I don't see anything wrong with that, because it's always been two consensual adults.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: When it was asked if I potentially could have slept with him, the answer is yeah, and I could see myself having a couple of drinks and being a little emotional and feeling neglected and rejected and abandoned.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And I found someone that was giving me attention and taking him home.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Natural human reactions and tendencies after a breakup.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: However, if we got to my house and something was happening that he didn't want, he said stop, you always want to stop.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: A part of me wondered if maybe that did happen, if maybe he did come to my car Because he's not a bad looking guy what if he did come to my car and was like hey, I tried to talk to you inside.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: We talked for a little bit, but I wasn't able to actually introduce myself.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: What's up tonight?
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I was a bartender for a long time.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: It was nothing for us.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: We don't know strangers when you're bartenders.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: That's how we're friends, right?
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: So it was nothing for there to be bar guests around that closing and they end up going to a bar or over to our house with us to have an after hours gathering.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: And again, like I had mentioned in episode one, I didn't know hate existed.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I never had someone want me dead.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I've never been hit before, Not like this, and so a part of me even questioned playing devil's advocate, because I don't want to ever say that I didn't consider other realities of it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not that person that's going to be like oh, I know I wouldn't do this.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: And so I spent a lot of time thinking that maybe he did come to my house, maybe obviously there was sex involved.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: The rape test came back inconclusive because they said there was no ripping or tearing, but there was semen.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So it would be more of a consensual sex, unless you're knocked out cold, because then your body is loose.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So either I was knocked out cold, which he confessed to having me knocked out cold.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And which?
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: is also right, because you didn't consent.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: So I did go back and forth of what if I did start having sex with him.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: What if, after he freaked out of, are you going to my friends?
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: What does this mean?
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Does this mean I'm gay and the only way to keep a secret was to shut me up?
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I did play around with all those ideas.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I was never given anything in court to go one way or another with it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: What did help me in court and hearing him speak was I was able to stop completely blaming myself to an extent, but there's always going to be that victim mentality that does so.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I wanted to put that out there because that was one of the questions that a couple of people have asked and that has been a consistent question for the years that it has passed is could this have happened?
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: And absolutely it could have, but the one thing I can say is it would have been consensual, no matter what.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: He took it way too far.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Especially if you were the one with semen and you're on the bottom.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: That doesn't work that way.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: If you can't wreck somebody and put them on top.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: And you know what scares me with all this too, is again, when we're watching those True Come documentaries, it always talks about how they want to check under the nails, see if there's any skin where someone fought back.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: There was zero scratches on him, there were zero bruises on him he hit you.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: He had me knocked out in first hit yeah, had he not wrecked my car.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know to this day if, because I wouldn't have been able to pick him out of a lineup.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I can clue, and what if I didn't survive and my family in france to this day would still be wondering am I standing in line at walmart with this guy that killed my son behind me or my friend behind?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: That bothers me, that I couldn't even attempt to fight back, and that is one thing that I think of every day and that I struggle with every day.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Let's read the article.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Let's read the article.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: So this is regarding activists pushing for hate crime designation in brutal Knoxville beating.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: It was written by Sean Mandel, November 5th 2014.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: The Tennessee Equality Project is pushing law enforcement in Knoxville, Tennessee, to prosecute the brutal attack of a local gay man, David Keck, as a hate crime.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Keck was savagely beaten by the suspect after Keck allegedly made sexual advances towards Wilder.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: The report of the night's events is according to Wilder, who turned himself into police after beating Keck unconscious and stealing $100 in cash from him, along with his car.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Wvlt reports.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: According to witnesses, two men identified as Wilder and Keck left Bullfeathers Bar and headed to Keck's place at the Brennan Park Apartments off Cedar Bluff.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Wilder is quoted in a police report telling officers he had hit Keck several times after David came on to him sexually at the apartments.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: When police showed up, they found David Keck beaten unconscious and say Wilder told them he was afraid he'd killed Keck.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Keck is currently suffering from short-term memory loss due to the heinous attack.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Wilder does not currently face any hate crime charges, only aggravated robbery charges, a fact the Tennessee Equality Project is looking to change.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Thankfully, because Tennessee does have sexual orientation under hate crime law, the DA can ask for enhancement, which would be a stricter penalty as well.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: They put in quotations who said that and absolutely no disrespect here, because I can't pronounce her last name, but it said Gwen Shableek, maybe.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right Okay good.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: The Tennessee Equality Project Committee Chair for Anderson, knox and Blount Counties is who she is.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: The Knoxville Police Department says it's unlikely the District Attorney's Office will bring hate crime charges against Wilder.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Wilder is scheduled to be in court on Friday.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Heck shared the images above with WVLT because he wants to show us and tell his story.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: So I printed myself out a copy and I highlighted a few things this article, and it took me a little while, like we had discussed a little bit ago.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: It took me a little while to realize the damage of the wording, to the point I don't trust or believe anything you hear on the news anymore, even down to the small facts.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: First, which we've already mentioned.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: But it says, after keck allegedly made it sexual advances toward wilder we don't know if that's true, but that is based on his confession, which of course it wasn't mentioned in much heightened detail that this was based on the police report while I was still in the hospital fighting for my life.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Then it says, according to witnesses, two men identified, wilder and David Keck, left Bullfeather's Bar and headed to Keck's place at Bearden Park Apartments off Cedar Bluff.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: First, they tell the whole public where you live, which bothers the shit out of me.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Why is that necessary?
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And luckily I've never lived in Brendan Park Apartments.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, good.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Ever.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where they got that.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, the police report says Brendan Park Apartments.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: That's not where it happened.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: It's not where I've ever lived.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know where they even got that.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Okay good, because I can't keep up with it.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: You move a lot.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Every time it laces up but it says according to witnesses.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: When I asked Lauren who was the announcer of this article, she said that the witnesses they said was the Bullfeathers manager who gave them the surveillance cameras that showed that he left three minutes after me.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: It wasn't sure that we left together, but she was able to say that was some kind of witness.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: But there was truly nobody that ever said oh, we've seen them leave together.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So according to witnesses, it indicates that someone told them this right and the cameras show that me and two of my friends left together and they even said they see me drive off by myself right, which kind of throws the whole idea of.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: He came to my car and I was like, oh, let's get in and go together next line down.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: It says he hit Keck several times.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: It doesn't talk about that he was kicking my head into cabinets, that he was dragging my body down halls.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: It doesn't say that he took me from room to bed to couch.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: It says he hit me several times as if he just blackened my eye and bloodied my nose and I really wish this was a some kind of visual something so we could show the audience the pictures of and I have thought about that and I don't want to post the pictures just because of trigger warnings.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: That's one thing I hate about facebook is you see all kinds of things that you're not ready to see or that you want to see, and but if people do want to see the pictures, you can google it and see.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, if you do.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: If you do the title of this article, which is activists push for hate crime and brutal knoxville beating, or if you put david keck hate crime, knoxville, tennessee, these pictures will come up.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, if people do want to see that you don't want to see it, but you do because the right brain is.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I need to see the damage because you really need to see that.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: You don't want to see it, but you do because the brain is.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I need to see the damage because you really need to see the before and the after of how small David is, to begin with.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I weighed.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: The emergency room reports show that I weighed 143 pounds when I was brought in.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: And how tall are you and I'm 5'10".
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: So see.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And within three weeks I was down to 98 pounds because of the depression and all those other factors.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: So then it says, when he says that he was afraid, that he killed Keck, it doesn't.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: It says beaten unconscious.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: But what they don't explain and what they don't say is not only was I beaten unconscious but the cop said it took 18 hours to find my body.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: That's 18 hours of being unconscious I didn't just black out for five or 10 minutes it's 18 hours of lack of oxygen and laying in a puddle of blood.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: That lack of oxygen is the reason I did have those memory issues, because there was no oxygen to the brain.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: There still are memory issues and short term in here as well which is completely crazy because the things still exist and granted.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: traumatic experiences cause, you know, memory loss, sometimes because you block that.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: You protect yourself by blocking that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just that night that I had memory loss with.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: There were times that somebody would say something.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: My biggest fear was when someone would say hey, when?
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: And you had even caught me looking at you sometimes and you would know to butt in because you would know that I might not and that was embarrassing to me and and the best thing about that is is because we do have such dry humor and we joke a lot.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: We always, even prior to any of this, I've got the worst memory in the whole entire world just because, and no trauma, no, yeah, and no trauma.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Mine is just mainly because I really don't care.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I just like to go out and have a good time the biggest things is I don't store times, dates, things.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: If you tell me, hey, we went to blah, blah, blah, I'll be like, oh yeah, I remember that, but it's not something that's off the top of my head like when we did this or anything.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: And sometimes, when you would look at me and be like, I'd be like what the hell are you looking at me for?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I don't remember it.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: The last thing this news article was a little short.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: The last thing that it says is keck shared the images above with wvlt because he wants to show and tell his story.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: When I was talking to the newscaster, I asked her where she got these pictures and what allowed her to make that comment, and she told me that when you share something on Facebook, it is public and that they can use it.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I never text or email these pictures to her.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: She took it off my Facebook page.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: And it's in quotes because he wants us to show and tell his story.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: There is a quote on my Facebook page that says I will be posting about my recovery and my attack as I recover and learn things, because I do want to share my part of the story, I do want my voice to be heard with this, but this was to my friends and my family that are on my Facebook page.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Granted, when this became public, I got a lot of friend requests and most people were supportive.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: And if I approved the message of friend requests and most people were supportive and if I approved the message, then fine, that was to you.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: But because it's on a public platform, she was able to use quotations, she was able to use those pictures and make it sound as if David gives all this permission and everything we're saying is correct and David approves.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: The last quote is me telling I want to share my story, as if every line and word and sentence above that is my story.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Like you said, when you were first reading this, you took it as a little neutral and, like I said, I did too.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: But then when?
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: So my attorney had to run my Facebook Messenger report because I was getting death threats and a bunch of negative comments In a week I had received and these are just estimated, rounding up numbers at this point.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: But I had received right at 2,000 messages in a week.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: 200-ish of them were negative.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: So in the outcome of 2000 versus 200, fine, 50 of them were death threats.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: You can talk negative shit to me all day long, but when you start saying let's find him, watch your back and start making those threats to where cops have to actually sit.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Because I obviously couldn't go back home, I had to.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I moved in with my grandmother for a bit.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: One of the thoughts that went through my head was what if someone breaks in and they hurt my grandmother?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I couldn't defend myself.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: What if my grandmother dies or gets hurt because of someone wanting to finish me?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: And which ended up leading me into going back to my apartment, probably before I should have, which lasted a few weeks, and then I had to leave again, but of course during this time I wasn't working.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: So I went back to her place and then it took no time for me to think what if someone tries to hurt her?
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: What if someone watches her drive out and wants to run her off the road?
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: And that might be taking things to extreme.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Of course people are going to be keyboard bullies, but the most extreme thing just happened to me.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: It was reality.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: So any bad thing now can happen in my mind and it's just.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: It came to where I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: This isn't over.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: There were a few detectives that would not answer my family's phone calls.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: There was a black detective.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: He was actually the one that found my body.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: He sat in my grandmother's living room with my mom and my grandmother holding their hand when he could have been home having his beer winding down from his day.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: He was done, he was off the clock, his job was done and he stayed with them.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: The next day my mom came in and she said what's detective so-and-so doing outside?
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: We had no idea he was there, but this is when the death threats were coming in pretty harshly and he didn't tell anybody.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: But he came and pulled his car in front of my grandmother's house and parked to monitor it and didn't even tell anybody.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: He didn't even pat on the back.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: It could have been his lunch break and not even been getting paid for it.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: But he was black and I feel like and not trying to make this a race thing, but I feel like because he knows how it feels to be discriminated against he understood and he told me.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: He was like David, no matter what you tell me, I will never believe that you took this guy home for sex.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Evidence does not show that.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I Googled me one day just because I was curious as to what would pop up, and a blog that a guy posted came up and he was very respectful in his blog and so I printed it out for you to read.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: But what I hate is, even though he was respectful, based on the information he was given from the news article.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: So do you care to read that to us?
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: So this is his blog.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: It says gay bashing in Tennessee.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I posted an article discussing the assault of David Keck on Facebook.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: It was soon shared by a close friend with the comment I've made a drunken pass at a straight guy before.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: This could have been me, and that's the brutal truth.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: It could have been him.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: It could have been me.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: In a time where gay marriage is now legal in over half the United States, it's easy to make the mistake that we're in the promised lands for the LGBTQ community and that the days of being physically attacked for being different are over.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: But the sad truth is that it isn't.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: The highlights from the article are Wilder is quoted in a police report telling officers he had hit Keck several times quotation marks after David came on to him sexually at the apartments.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: The attack was so brutal that Keck is suffering memory loss from the savage beating he took at the hands of Wilder.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Addition to beating up Keck, wilder took a hundred dollars in cash and his car.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Wilder told them he was afraid he'd killed Keck.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I got into martial arts because of getting gay bashed in high school and it's a pretty world-shattering experience, no matter how bad the physical damage, and it can leave you emotionally messed up even longer than the physical injuries.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: I didn't leave my house for a long time and I'm still afraid of being in crowded areas by myself and was incapable of public displays of affection without becoming a nervous wreck.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I'm lucky that my incidents have never been as close to as fatal as David's, and my thoughts and prayers are out to him in this difficult time.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Despite Tennessee having laws and regulations making targeting someone specifically because of their sexual orientation a hate crime, it's looking like the prosecution won't be seeking to bolster the charge and will be treating it as if it were any other crime.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I find this troubling because of Wilder's confession.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: If he hadn't said it was because Keck came on to him, then I'd be willing to hear an argument.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: But because even the attacker openly admits to their being a motive based on sexuality and that's what these laws are meant to punish and discourage they should be used.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: The only glimmer of light in this tragic story is that, because of the stealing of the car and cash by wilder, the charge is currently at aggravated robbery.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: I get that hate crime stuff is a touchy subject and a hot button issue, but so is beating someone near death because they make a drink pass at you.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: I've read a lot of comments online and forums, including the subreddit for Knoxville, that argue against it, so I want to make a case to others of the public.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Do you really think that the man would have beaten a woman near death and stolen her car if she made a pass at him and he wasn't interested?
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: These statutes to protect members of the LGBTQ community are toothless and token gestures if our representatives don't have the balls to stand up and use them.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: That's why earlier I had asked you the question do you think this would have went as far as it did if I was a woman?
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: That hit on him is because of the question this guy asked, and I wanted to ask it before the article was read.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I really appreciated how he went to bat for me, even through the Reddit comments, because people in Reddit was like, oh, this isn't about gay bashing.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: He didn't.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: This dude didn't have anything against gay people.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: He just had something against gay people hitting on him and violating him, and so there was always some kind of justification.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: I respect the wording of this article.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the guy and even him acknowledging that it could have been him.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I just hate that it's based on the untruth.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: The stuff that was in the article, which is what fired most people up to begin with.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Nobody at this point knew the truth.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: All they knew was Dennis Wilder's statement period.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Because you hadn't spoken to anyone, you didn't know what was happening.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Like me, like all of your other friends, somebody in this young man that wrote this blog, or whomever it was, it's stand up take a stand, no matter which side that you live on, as far as things go, as far as your sexuality.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Just because you're taking the side of an individual that's different than you, that chooses or is, or whatever the case may be, you don't have to make assumptions.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: You can just look at the facts and just be like you know what this is wrong, no matter which way it is.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: So I went through the comments and a lot of them were just repeats of each other, so I took some of the main ones for us to go over, and throughout the conversation that we've had tonight, we've pretty much touched some of these, but I wanted to bring it up with the words that these people were using, for the fact of this is how people really think, and they really think this is okay.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: This one says I know David and he was probably high on drugs and hit on this guy.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, heather, let's break this down.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: You obviously don't know, david, because first they did a drug test to see if I had been date raped.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: And at that time I wasn't on these prescriptions that I'm on now to maintain a mental, healthy, somewhat lifestyle.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I was on no prescriptions.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: There was zero that showed up in my bloodstream other than alcohol and I wasn't drunk.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I would not have gotten a DUI if I was pulled in.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: So then this next one says we know David.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Actually, what really hurt is they said we knew David, as if I was dead.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: We knew David and we knew eventually this would happen.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: So you know me well enough to know that eventually this is going to happen.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: And you couldn't come to me and say hey, david, we're worried about you.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I have a really good friend.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Jen felt like she wouldn't meet a good friend because she wasn't local.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: She couldn't just drop everything and come to me.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: So she was asking herself what can I do?
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: What can I do?
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And she's like you know what?
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: He's obviously not going to be able to work for a while.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he has medical insurance, because at the time I was a bartender and usually as a bartender you don't have medical benefits and bills are going to be stacking high until the state gets involved and the state pays.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: She thought I want to go, I want to set up a GoFundMe.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I had no idea about this Zero.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Several thousands of dollars were donated.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: She would text me and call me, talk to me every day and no idea that she was doing this for me.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: And then, finally, when I was up and trying to get back out on my own, she was like so this is what I've done.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: There's several thousands of dollars.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: This will help you stay on your feet.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: But I was in a good place.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: And then she did this, which was amazing, because you got to think I'm now on these prescriptions that are costing me $400 a month.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I'm now having to buy a new car because he's stolen right to my car, which is going to be $400 or $500 a month, and I'm not working, so my bills have increased at least $1,000.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: And I'm not decreased to zero.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: People were making donations.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: She closed it out and sent me the money, and someone made a comment that said David is trying to make profit on a GoFundMe from what happened to him, as if I would even think how can I make money from this?
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: And you didn't make any.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: You are still upside down from the situation, and anybody that is in that type of situation.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how it happened.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Hospital bills escalate and when you have zero income coming in, there's no profit.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: So again, please excuse the ignorance that comes across in these messages and what people don't realize is that every few months I had to meet with the state and provide them receipts of my doctor bills, my hospital bills, my medication bills, anything that had anything to do with this crime, which keeps bringing it up yeah and 100.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: And the last calculation that we did, which at this point has been a couple of years ago, because the state I had turned in fast tracking for this story.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: But I had turned in some receipts and the state had denied it, and it was my therapy receipts that the state had assigned me to.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: They set up this therapy.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't decide it on my own, they had denied it.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: I called the state and they said oh, you should be cured by now.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: That's not how rape works.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: That's not how this boat flows.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Attempted aggravated robbery works Right An attempted murder and a hate crime, even though that's not how they prosecuted it Right, that's not how any of robbery works An attempted murder and a hate crime even though that's not how they prosecuted it, but that's not how any of that works.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: So then, I didn't know this, I was not in the right state of mind, but I went to buy a car and they're like, baby, your credit.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: And if there's one thing I take pride in, it's that I pay my bills.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: I've always managed to live within my means.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: And if there's one thing I take pride in, it's that I pay my bills.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: I've always managed to live within my means.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: And then, and I was like, what do you mean my credit?
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: And they show me my credit, and I was dumbfounded.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: The state said for victims' compensation, we're going to pay for the emergency room visit and nothing after.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: But they were the ones that were having me go to all these doctors and because of my attack, to this day I'm still seeing these doctors and having to pay for.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm still seeing these doctors and having to pay for.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: So the last meeting, which was about three years ago, that we had, where I was having to turn in all the receipts of what everything cost me, it was $34,000 that I had spent out of pocket.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: The next comment says David should be the one in jail.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: That's all they said.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: What exactly did you say?
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Then the next comment says I would have done the same thing to this gay guy.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Did these people use their names?
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, no, not one name.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: So then someone says they responded to the one that said I would have done the same thing to this gay guy.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Someone responded to that and said someone just needs to finish the job.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: So then that's what triggered the death threat, some people saying, oh will.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: So then there's one that says you're right, david should be in jail for putting the straight guy in this position the position where he was on top of you then someone says the only people supporting david are middle-aged women you gotta have your hags.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: honey, honey, honey.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: What would you do without it?
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like what the but fine, but I was like are you how Fine?
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how to wrap my mind around that one.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: So it says then someone says let me see this gay guy out.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Walter was only beginning of what's coming for him.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Then someone says oh, and I can't wait to converse about this one.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: This one's probably my favorite because you've known me, you've been out with me.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: This one says this is what David gets because he always makes fun of everyone at bars.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: My friend and I were in a gay bar a few weeks ago and David was making fun of everyone that walked in because he thinks he's better than everyone.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: He puts down their clothes and wouldn't even let a lady sit next to him, refused to allow her to sit next to him in the empty chair because it would make him look bad.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Never happened.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: My friends and I throw each other under the bus to each other, but we're still never.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Oh you're fat, oh you're ugly, oh you're this, oh you're that.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: It's always superficial stuff.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: I would never.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: I make jokes.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: I put down my friends to their face in a jokingly manner because they will do the same to me.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: But name one time that we've ever been anywhere and I have said oh, you're too ugly to sit next to me.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: No, as a matter of fact, we probably.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: This is the joke that we made which anybody hearing us that whole?
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit next to me or something to that effect.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: We say stuff that's cliche that you hear all the time that we repeat that is just being silly and out drinking and having a good time.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: But never to or about a stranger.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: No, I don't even know.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: The strangers are around.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: And even if they were 99.9% of the time, we're going to say it to them and it's not out of being mean, it's being silly Trying to become friends and break ice, not to be ugly Anybody that takes offense to it, but this just Is 100% one of those people we really don't like, that we probably didn't say anything to and we didn't include in our camaraderie.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: And Heather, you know me, you know that I do not think that I'm anything that I'm not.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: So this one says David better watch his back while Wilder's buddies are going to find him.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: This one says if anyone wants to confront David, I know where he lives.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: But confront you about what.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: What is what kills me about all of this?
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Again, like you said, and I really honestly still don't think it's the article that read this way honestly still don't think it's the article that read this way.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: It's how people took it, and if half of these idiots obviously can't even speak the truth, much less read it.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: It just goes to show what kind of caliber of people are out there.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Two more and then we'll be done.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: But this one says news articles state that courtrooms are planned to be packed with activists and LBGTQ members supporting Keck.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: We should all go and stand up for Wilder.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: And then the last one says honestly I know David and he will never learn his lesson until he's finally killed.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Wow, and this is Heather.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: By the way, if any of you guys would like to make yourself known and would like to confront me, I'll be more than happy to take your comments and give you my address.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: But that last comment is the one that I saved it for last for a reason because I get choked up.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: What lesson do I have to learn?
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: What do I do?
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: What have I done?
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: That is so bad, heather?
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: It was like a horror flick.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that my apartment was not cleaned up.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: The state is supposed to have someone come in and clean up the crime scene once it's done, and they never did.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: They failed me yet again.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: So I decide that I'm going home, that I want to live by myself and get back to being a big boy.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: I walk in and blood everywhere and you can see the indentions and the pictures, even where he was kicking my head and the blood splattering up the wall.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: You can see my claw marks down the hallway, and I had, of course, no regulation, had no idea what was about to come, but I cleaned it up.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: I got down on my hands and knees in that floor and scrubbed the blood.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: That, at this point, was probably three or four months old and I've been scrubbed and was whopping walls and I was exhausted.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: I was ready to go to bed.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I went to my bedroom, turned on the light and my blankets were covered in blood.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: There's a blanket that I still have that my great-grandmother made and it was passed down to me and it's made of all of our ties and baby clothes and baby blankets, and so it's been passed down and it's covered in blood.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I was not expecting this.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: My blood went through three blankets to the mattress.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: That's how hard he was hurting me.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: I had talked in therapy how I felt like I became famous in a small town.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I felt like everyone knew what they thought was my story.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Everyone was creating the story for me and I hated it.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: When someone says, david, better watch his back, they speak as if they know me and that's what scared me.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't like reading the ones where they called me by name.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: I felt like they were arm's reach.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I felt like they were arms reach.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was with these people every day and didn't even know it and they were just waiting.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: And of course, that's not true.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: But that's how a victim's mind is going to think.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Because your name was plastered everywhere.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: So even if they don't know you and know who you are, they're going to use your name because they know that makes them sound like Billy Badass.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: But those same people refuse to use their own name.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Right, I was really excited about this episode.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: I've not cried through any of them.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: This one took a toll on me.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: It was a little harder than I thought and I think it's because I talk about my story often but I don't read verbatim news articles and comments.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: But I thought this was the best way to answer people's questions and