Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Killer Under Their Noses? Shock as Local Pharmatech Charged in Delphi Double Murders

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Killer Under Their Noses? Shock as Local Pharmatech Charged in Delphi Double Murders · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Legal eagles across the world
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: thought it would never happen, but in the last days,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: finally arrest in the case of the Delphi double murders
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of Abbey and Libby, two precious girls now angels. But
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: who would have predicted that? All the while the killer
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: was right under everybody's knows, literally in the center of town.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I see, Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Serious one eleven. First of all, take a listen to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: our friends at w THR. We know Richard Alan worked
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: as a licensed pharmacy tech at this CVS here in Delphi,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: but many continue to ask and wonder how a man
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: now charged with two counts of murder managed to stay
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: under the radar in a town of about three thousand people.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Those who live in Delphi are still trying to cope
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: with news that Richard Allen is the man police say
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: murdered Abby Williams and Libby German. I mean the da
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: after Halloween, but it's a little eerie and tense in
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: downtown Delphi on the Square, businesses like the Office Tavern
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: put up a new sign on their door reading no
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: media allowed. They weren't the only ones. Country Hair also
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: had a sign off camera. One business owner to thirteen News,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the community is still in shock, even the girl's families
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: grappling with the reality that their girls and murderer, brutal murderer. Remember,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: according to one released Affi David, there were copious amounts
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: of blood at the same mini, speculating these two little girls,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Libyan Abbey had their throats slit. We don't know that yet,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: but that is the conjecture of experts. They are grappling
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: with the reality that the killer was right under their nose.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Take a listen Fox fifty nine. They were also facing
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: a harsh reality that Richard Allen was living amongst them
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the whole time. I don't know the gentleman personally at all,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: you know, so I probably seen him, but you know,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: it's a small county, you know, but definitely don't. I
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: don't know any One of the most chilling revelations was
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: that Becky said Alan, who worked at a local CBS,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: had printed off pictures for the girls's funeral, leaving the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: family to wonder how did nobody know? When the family
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: says we didn't know him that's like you don't know
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: your maleman. You don't know the guy at McDonald's that
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: gives you a large coffee with two creams in it
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  Speaker 1: every morning. You don't know the neighbor three doors down,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: but you do. Again, thank you for being with us
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: as we are struggling with the reality that a double killer,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: according to police, was right there saying good morning, How
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: can I help you every single day to practicularly everybody
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: in town. To Cheryl McCallum joining me, founder director of
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl, isn't the CVS right
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: in the middle oftown, right in the middle of town.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: If you take the CBS and make it the center
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: of a wheel with spokes, you get to the high school,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: you get to the middle school, you get to the bridge.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Everywhere is centered from downtown. Well, you know, I know
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: our pharmacists because the twins are so sick when they
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: were little. We were in there all the time and
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: owe them their families through pictures everybody that works there.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: You get to know your pharmacists, and this local pharmacy
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: tech seemingly dealt with everybody in town. Joining me right now.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Max Lewis with Fox fifty nine you can find him
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: on Insta at Max Lewis TV Max. Thank you for
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: being with us. I guess the town is stunned right
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: now because this has been going on over five years
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: and every day, I mean, for Pete's sake. And one
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: picture he's had a bar who was it, J and
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: HC and S barn grill. He's sitting right there living
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: it up, and right behind him on the wall is
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: his composite. Yeah. I mean people were just when we
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: heard about it, we saw this picture, we saw who
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: he was. People were stunned. Five and a half years,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: they've been investigating this and this guy has been living
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: amongst them the whole time. He's been filling their prescriptions.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: They're printing off photos format at CBS, and nobody saw anything.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's sort of what the family was saying
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: there and what a whole lot of people have told
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: me is really nobody saw this guy. Nobody looked at
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: the discussion thought maybe it was him or anything like that.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was just sort of really shocking. We
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: don't know how police got to him at this point
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: because all those documents are sealed, but yeah, stunning. Yeah,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I've got more on that Max Lewis and the search
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: warrant that was executed on his home a few days
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: before his arrest. I'm going to get into that, but
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: right now, the shot factor, and I'll tell you what
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I think. And this is from having handle cases where
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the killer was right there in the community the whole time. Yeah,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: we all looked at the possibility it was a transient,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: but Cheryl mccollumb, you and I agreed on day one
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: this was no transient. Right day one, Q and I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: said it, and we never wavered from it. We even
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: said he would be within five miles and there Dance,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I got to Delfy and we saw where the bridge was.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I mean that to me, I was like, he's even
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: closer than I think. And remember the guy the catfisher
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: was kea conclined gosh I'm not known now know their
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: names by heart. Keegan Klein was a curve, pasty looking dude,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: middle age. I think he is anyway. Using a screenshot
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Anthony shots of adjustin Bieber looked alone trying to lure
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: young girls. And he was talking to them just a
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: day or two before and maybe the day of. But
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: he lives like thirty sixty miles away and you and
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  Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, that's tempting, it's really tempting. But the
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  Speaker 1: distance didn't fit to us, because who would know to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: go to that dirt road, to that particular trail, to
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  Speaker 1: that trestle bridge, and then down to a bottleneck take
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  Speaker 1: forced the girls down to where they really couldn't get
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  Speaker 1: away and murder them, and I think rape them first
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: had to be a local. It had to be a
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: local with intimate knowledge. Because even where they crossed the creek,
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  Speaker 1: that's where the creek was shallow. Other parts of it
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  Speaker 1: are waist deep. This person knew. Hold on, wait a minute,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to drink him. What you're saying. Parts of
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the creek shallow, other part's waist deep. And that factored
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: into it. It absolutely did. Why are you saying that?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Because again, this person would have to know that. If
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: you and I just were visiting that area, we wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: know where to cross that creek. And again, waist high
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: chess high in some places if it's been raining. But
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: he knew right word across where it was less than
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  Speaker 1: ankle deep. And Max Lewis Fox fifty nine joining us,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: He's been all over this, Max Lewis, The thing is,
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  Speaker 1: the killer wouldn't know and you've been to that Chelsea
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  Speaker 1: Bridge a million times. The killer would have to know
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: that there were other people that were in that I'm
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: going to call it a park, it's more like a
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  Speaker 1: hiking area, and where he killed them. Other people would
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: not be able to see what was going on, even
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: though they could be walking around in the hiking area. Yeah,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, this is a very well traveled area,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: so I mean, it's hard to believe that nobody would
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: have seen them. That maybe where the sort of you
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: remember that chilling audio recording that down the hill. You know,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: we don't necessarily know, you know, if he is the
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: bridge guy per se. You know, that's still they're holding
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: everything close to the best at this point. Okay, wait
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: wait wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop the train, Max Lewis.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Let's follow that theory to its logical conclusion, and that
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: would be that there were two killers, that one guy
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: lured them down, the so called bridge guy, and then
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Richard Alan raped and murdered them. I find that hard
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  Speaker 1: to believe. My mind is still open, But is that
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  Speaker 1: what you're suggesting? Well, that seems to be somewhat of
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: the indication that we are getting at this point because
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: who read it. No, No, we're getting that from the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: way they're handling this. They steal those documents, they say,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: this investigation is ongoing. What more than they need? If
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: they have their guys, they've made it the rest. They
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: found a probable concept for David. What more do they need?
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Why are you shaking your head? Yes? I believe jump
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: jump the reason it's own. First of all, Jackie Howard,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I do not want you on my jury ever. Forget it.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: You just fall for anything. Anybody says, yeah, yeah, she's
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: shaking her head, yes to everything. Max Lewis says Cheryl McCollum.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Straightened out. Woman. There's a great possibility there are additional victims.
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  Speaker 1: So they are going to connect every dot they possibly can.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: This investigation does not end and are rest in a
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: great world. This is where it starts. Yeah, you know,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you really think I'm not picking on you, Max Lewis,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you're the messenger, Okay, but do you really think this
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: guy went from zero to one twenty mph in one day?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Because I don't even when a sports car it takes
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: a minute to heat up. So I'm not buying it.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I think what Cheryl McCollum just said is right. I
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: think a law enforcement are looking for other young girl victims,
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  Speaker 1: were they sex assaulted, where they threatened it they feel threatened,
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  Speaker 1: and for people that may have helped him cover up
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: this crime. Back to who is this guy? Take a
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: listen now to this. Before moving to Delphi, he lived
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: in this home with his wife and daughter. According to neighbors,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: David Yoder lived across the street but has known Allen
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: since he was born and grew up with his dad. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean I would have never thought living across the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: road from him, he reserved anything. That's why we're setting
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: my kids to if it had been any trouble. But
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: after hearing Allen was arrested in charge with killing Abby
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Williams and Libby German, he's now questioning if he really
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: knew him. It's just hard to believe. He heck of
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a nice guy, always has been. Hey him, a nice guy,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: always has been. Well, you know what they said that
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: about Joseph DeAngelo, the Golden State killer, that he had
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: even been a cop. I believe it was in Oxford, California.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: They said the same thing about the dog catcher, which
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: makes me suspicious at the get go. Who wants to
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: catch dogs and put him to death? Not me? Bt
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: K by torture kill. Dennis Raider, deacon at the church, freak, complete,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: total freak. After he would murder people in his community
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: on his dog catching route, he would then redress them
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  Speaker 1: and put makeup on them and pose them. Let that
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  Speaker 1: sink in. Everybody thought he was a nice, upstanding guy too.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And of course I was going to go out on
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a limb Scott Peterson. And yes, I know there is
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: a cable TV entertainment program suggesting the Scott Peterson is innocent.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: He's not. He's guilty. He murdered Lacy and Connor. And
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: you can throw all the hate at me you want to,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: but that is the truth. I was in the trial,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: were you bet? You weren't. If you believe everything somebody
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: is paid to create to convince you to get ratings,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you're barking up the wrong tree. So I'm gonna throw
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Scott Peterson in there too. Good looking cause degree, great job,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: beautiful home, beautiful wife. Yeah, he's a killer. Time Stories
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Greece with me right now, David Yoder, you
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: just heard him speaking to our friend Max Lewis, Fox
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: fifty nine, who's really may have broken so many aspects
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: of this case Fox fifty nine. David Yoder grew up
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: with Richard Allen as a child and was his neighbor
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  Speaker 1: for years and years. And you just heard him say
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to Max, if my children are in trouble, I tell
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: him to run over there. That's how much he trust's
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: trust did Richard Allen? David yoders, thank you for being
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: with us. Okay, tell me, David Yoder, don't leave anything out.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: What do you recall growing up with Richard Allen. I
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: grew up with a little girl named Joy Jones. Connie
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Joy Jones lived across the street. They had four children.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: One was the same may each of us. And it
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: was wonderful. Still friends after all that time, She says.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: The first time she met me, I came to her
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: door ununnounced or uninvited. They opened the door and I said, math,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: please have a cookie. That's how that friendship started. Tell
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: me about Richard Allen, Well, he was a good kid
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: growing up. I mean, never in any trouble. Um. They
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: were a good family. Is dad is a friend of mine?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: H he uh there's just good people, all around, good people.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: They're very smart people. Of his grandpa was a principal
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of my grade school and a teacher. Uh, there's just
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: a good family, all around, good family. And it's just
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: shocked to think it Rec could do something like this.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: If he did it, if he didn't do it. I mean,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: he's still innocent until proven guilty. I don't know what
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: kind of aven say got on him, and but it's
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: just it's just a shock. Like I said, I would
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: have sent my kids over there to a safe house,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: over to him if I had to to, you know,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to go there if there was any problems and I
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: w wasn't home or showing well. I feel the same
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: way about Connie Joy Jones. If somebody told me Connie
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Joy Jones aka Joy Jones h committed a double murder
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: much less on children, I'd say no way. I'd go
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: to court and go under oath and talk about what
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a great person she was and is and has been
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: alone with my children, and I would have her be
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: alone with them again. I know what you're saying, Uh,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: what is his character? You keep saying a good guy?
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? What? He never once
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: shot lifted. He never sped, He never check a pack
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: of gun from the store. Nothing. He only spoke. It
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: was real nice, cordial, never disrespected me. I mean, I'm
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: older than he is. Several years he was. He was
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: better friends with his dad than him. But I were
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: growing up. How much older are you, Dan, Richard Allen?
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I'm sixty eight and Alan is fifty right, Okay, eighteen
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: years so somewhere in the um. When you say a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: good guy. How did he do in school? Did he
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: play a sport? Not so much an athlete? Now? What
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: did he do? I don't know, just went to school.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I wasn't with him in school. His dad I was.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Is that who we're talking about now? I'm talking about
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Richard Allen. I'm not as interested in his parents. Richard.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I was out of school in Richard went to school.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was eighteen years older than he was.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: He's young enough to be my kid, and never a
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: bit of trouble when he was growing up that I knew.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Does he have brothers and sisters? He got one sister.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Where does she live? I don't know. I lost track
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: of her a long time ago. I mean, and I
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: have rich two he uh moved away from here. I
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: just kind of lost track of him talking about Richard Allen,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Neighbors that actually grew up with him, saw him grow
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: up as a child, like David Yoder, or having a
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: hard time taking in that he is now charged with
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: double murder. David Yoder, what did you think when you
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: learned that cops have arrested Richard Allen for the murders
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of Abby and Libby? First started once is no way,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: no way, But then you know, if it's true, then
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: then he deserves the penalty that goes along with it.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I hope, I hope they catch whoever did it. If
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: it isn't him. If it is him, then then he
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: deserves everything he gets. David Yoder says he is absolutely
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: shocked that a boy he knew his entire childhood, all
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the way through growing up and moving away as an adult,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: is possible for such a gruesome sex attack we believe,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and double murder we believe by knife. I don't know,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I'll have to ask a shrink Karen Stark about this,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: but the thought of putting a knife to a little
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: girl's throat is just it's it's repulsive. I don't even
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: want to think about it. But a little digging does
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: reveal a tiny lip. Take a listen to our friend
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Max at Fox fifty nine. Alan has no criminal history,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: but Carroll County Dispatch records show he had one encounter
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: with police in twenty fifteen. The sheriff said it was
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: a domestic issue where Alan was supposedly drunk and his
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: wife took him too a Loffyett hospital. No law enforcement
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: action was taken, but deputies were sent to his Delphi
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: home to quote, keep the peace, okay, Max, a little.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: So far, the cops haven't come to our home to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: keep the peace, and nobody's been carted off to the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: emergency room. Drunk is a skunk, So what do we
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: know about what happened? But we're providing a whole lot
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: of clarification about that. You know, it sounds like there
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: was you know, as I said, there there was a
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: domestic situation. When I asked the shareff, who's the domestic
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: station situation between he wouldn't tell me. So, you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: I am a little suspect of this, but you know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: that was But it's also the only other thing I
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: ever found of him. I mean, you saw, I went
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: to his hometown, looked through his criminal background. That's the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: only thing we found about him, and it did happen
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: at three o'clock in the morning. So you know, I'll
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: leave that for you guys to decide what you want
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: to think about that, and I certainly will I certainly
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: will do. I say that, who is up causing a
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: ruck us drunk as a skunk at three a m.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: That's not good to Fran Longwell, former Deputy States Attorney
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: and Calvert County former Assistant States Attorney Prince George's specializing
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and homicide and other related crimes. Fran thank you for
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: being with us. What do you make of this prior arrest?
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: How the prior I think it shows in my opinion
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: that he does have some type of violent streak at him.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: But I kind of agree with you, Nancy that this
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: didn't start from zero to what happens to these little girls.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I'm just concerned we're going to find other victims, or
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: we're going to find other other kids that have been
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: abused by this guy. Yeah, why are you saying that,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Cheryl mccollumb. What leads you to that speculation? But by
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the way, I agree with you, Well, I mean again,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: broad Daylight two victims with other people around, a victim
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that clearly has a cell phone that is high risk.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: You're talking about somebody on the bridge that's, you know,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: eighty feet high in the air and has boards missing.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Everything he did was so risky. It tells me that
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: ain't his first rodeo. And I want to say one
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: more thing. When I was listening to the neighbors speak,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and I think people need to understand when you look
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: at a case like this and you're only thinking from
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: your vantage point, you can't possibly accept it or understand it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: But when you talked to criminologists like you and I, Nancy,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: we talked, probably their throats were slash, they were posed,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: they were staged. Things were probably done there, whether it's
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a carving or some sort of ritual, if you look
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: at it. If this was my case, one of the
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: first things I would do is go to CBS and
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: see if there's a camera in the girls restaurant. Well,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: that's funny you would say that, because after investigating a
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: case in chief, the very next thing I would do
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: is start looking for similar transactions. But you said it
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: so much more descriptively than I did. Because a crime
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: like this there has got to be some prior not
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: necessarily in the Scott Peterson type case, where that is
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: a domestic homicide, right, he hasn't had another wife to
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: kill in a case like this. However, these are not
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: his children, so although he does have a daughter near
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: their age, that tells me there are very likely other victims.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: And I agree with you three hundred percent. Now, what
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: do we know about A twelve plus hour search of
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: his home. Something in that home led them to ultimately
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: arrest the local pharmacists, the tech Richard Allen take a
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: listen our cut eighty three, our friends at crime Online
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: and first our friend Lindsay Stone Fox fifty nine. Richard
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Allen was not a stranger to this community. Information uncovered
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: by our rust the Quaid from sources with knowledge of
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the investigation found he even came forward in the early
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: days of the investigation as a witness from a mon
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: on high Bridge the day Abbey and Libby were killed
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: in February of twenty seventeen. Now, at the time any
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: inquiry did not reveal the need for further investigation. However,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: his name surfaced again recently. A search warrant was issued
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: at his house two weeks ago and revealed evidence reportedly
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: linking him to the deaths. He was arrested last Wednesday.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: His initial hearing Friday, ten days before the arrest of
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: murder suspect Richard Allen, police officers extensively searched the fifty
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: year old's home, Neighbors tell the New York Posts the
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: non uniformed officers were on the property for about twelve hours.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: During the search of the property, Allen chairs with his wife.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Officers were seen quote snooping a lot around the fire
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: pit and at the backyard. A neighbor describes quote lots
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: of flashlights, lots of pictures, lots of sifting unquote in
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: that area. The source says that it was odd for
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: them to be in that area, as the Allans were
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: never observed burning things. The neighbor also said when police
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: arrived at the property, no one suspected that there would
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: be a connection to the murders of Living and Abbey.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: What are they looking for? What were they looking for?
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: If the Allens really didn't use the fire pit, then
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: what were they digging around for? Could have anything to
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: do with blood evidence and there will be blood evidence.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Martin my word, take a listen to our friends at WISH.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: This nine page request for a search warrant filed March
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: seventeenth of twenty seventeen. Now that's a little more than
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: a month after Libby German and Abby Williams were found
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: murdered in Delphi. This disturbing document, for the first time
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: gives us an investigator's description of the crime scene and
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: what the suspect may have taken with him. The document,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: written by an FBI agent, describes what investigators found when
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: they discovered the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: on February fourteenth. The agent writes, a large amount of
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: blood was lost by the victims at the crime scene.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Because of the nature of the victim's wounds, it is
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: nearly certain the perpetrator of the crime would have gotten
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: blood on his person or clothing. Straight out to Fox
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: fifty nines, Max Lewis, all of that together, let's make
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: sense of it. Number one, A twelve plus hour search
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: of Richard Allen's home. A few days later, they come
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: back in him. They're digging around a very unused fire
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: pit with disturbed earth near by. We know there's blood evidence,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: and also did you hear that that he actually came
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: forward as a witness in the early days of the investigation. Yeah, he, uh,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: from what we have heard from our sources, you know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: he you know, walked up and volunteered to police and said, hey,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I was up there. I didn't really see anything,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: but you know I can tell you, you know, whatever
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: you need to know or whatever. So you know, it's
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: that's sort of another amazing thing. And he was sort
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: of brushed off and not really given a whole lot
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: of thought to as far as the search goes on
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: his house. Yeah, they were. Neighbors told us they were
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: searching around there, digging in the backyard, digging in a
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: fire pit. Makes you wonder what was in that fire pit?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Was he trying to get rid of something? You know,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: what was going on back there? So many, so many
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: unanswered question about this, but it all doesn't look good.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I want to circle back to what you just said.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Tell me again. Max Lewis joining us from Fox fifty nine,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: who's been on the case from the very very beginning.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: You stayed at the in the initial days of the
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: investigation that Richard Allen went to police and said I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: was there and offered himself up as a witness. That's right,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: he was. You know, he said he was on the
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: trail that day. And I'm not exactly sure how the
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: encounter happened, if he was you know, if police came
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: upon him and started, you know, asking him, or if
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: he just walked up to them and said, hey, I
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: was here, didn't see anything. But you know, I can
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: help you with what you need to know. But we
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: do know that he was interviewed by police in the
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: days after Abby and Libby first disappeared and then were
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: found murdered. To Karen Start joining me renowned psychologists joining
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan at Karen starton dot com. That's
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Karen with the see Karen. He places himself at the
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: scene of the murder. Scott Peterson did that, idiot. He
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: places himself there claiming he's fishing on Christmas Eve in
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the cold and the rain, and then Lacy and Connor's
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: bodies turn up miraculously where he was fishing. And then
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: in the weeks that followed, he was tracked back and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: forth to San Francisco Bay looking out over the water.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I guess he was trying to see if their bodies
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: had washed up. But also it reminds me of Wayne Williams,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the Atlanta serial killer. He was always at the scene
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: of the crime before anybody else got there, under the
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: guise of being a stringer for TV stations. He was
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: always there, and I think trying to glean evidence from
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the police, trying to get information. Were they onto him.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: What do you make of him coming to the scene
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: in the days immediately following the I'm not the least surprised, Nancy,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: because yes, perhaps looking for evidence, But the truth is,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: when you're that kind of person, a psychopath capable of
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: doing this without empathy, you are, in many instances reliving
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: what happens. He's enjoying, believe it or not, every moment
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: of this very cunning and manipulative, sitting under posters with
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: his own sketch and back of him. And I want
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: to tell you something. You mentioned all those killers who
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: everyone keeps saying, you know, yeah, I never would have
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: expected it out him. And that's not surprising, because that's
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: part of this m is superficially charming, and they strike
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: observers as remarkably normal, but they're not normal. Just the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: fact that he did that. Think about it, he goes,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: he's the one that extensively committed this crime, and he's volunteering.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And I think that very often police forget to look
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: at a person like this. If they want to be there,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: they want to be a part of it. They're getting
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: it thrill out of reliving it and being a part
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of the process. I don't know if the name Rodney
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: al Kala rings a bell and Cheryl says, you're jumping in,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I'll throw this to you. He was the Dating Game killer,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Rodney al Kalla, and he was so charming, he managed handsome,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the works to some people, not me, but many people.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: He was so charming and personal that they put him
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: on the Dating Game remember that show. And he turned
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: out to be a cold bloody killer, cold bloody killer.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about people that ingratiate themselves in cases.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Vodiac did it. Oh, Vodiac couldn't take it and had
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: to write them letters. And let's talk about another thing
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: with Wayne Williams that is identical to this case. Wayne
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Williams also burned things, not in a fire pit, but
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: on his greal remember after police yea and at the game. Okay,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So these are people that the thrill that she mentioned
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: is absolutely correct, and that's another reason he hasn't maybe
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: had to repeat the crime yet because he's still living
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: this one. The family comes into CBS and he has
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: contact with him, you know, ask him, hey, do you
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: need anything. Maybe he goes to where Kelsey works. You know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Kelsey always said she worried about that, and that is
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a victim's sister had contact. But I'll tell you something else.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I guarantee that he went to the funeral or the viewing.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: And I guarantee he was a volunteer searcher, whether it
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: was official or not. I guarantee he was out there. Okay,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: I've got a pretty good idea what may have been
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: burned and that fire pit. Take a listen to our
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: friend to me Johnson WISHTV. Authorities also found that two
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: articles of clothing from one of the girls was missing
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: from the crime scene, while the rest of their clothing
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: was recovered. It also appeared the girl bodies were moved
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: and staged. The agent goes on to say, based upon
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: my training and experience, it is common for perpetrators of
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: this type of crime to take a souvenir or in
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: some fashion memorialize the crime scene. The agent also references
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the video on Libby's phone, confirming it was forty three
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: seconds long. Up until now, only a few seconds have
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: been made public, that the girls were followed by the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: suspect on the Monon Highbridge trail, and that there were
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: no visible signs of a struggle or fight. Okay, taking
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a souvenir. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Fran Longwell, joining US veteran trial lawyer expertise homicide. What
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: do you make of that, Fran, I think that's totally
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that's natural. I think a lot of them, a lot
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of serial killers, for sure, always seem to take some
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: kind of souvenir. We had a case years ago where
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: they were fighting bodies along the belt Way in areas
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: of pre s George's County, and years and years later
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that suspect was found. He was able to draw pictures
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: of each victim, what she looked like, and he had
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: some sulvenir reached one of those murders. I don't think
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: that's unusual. I think that's part of their excitement of
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the crime. What about it, Karen Stark, New York Psychologists
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: joining us today from Manhattan. What about taking souvenirs? It's
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: very common it's like, you know, all those scrapbooks I
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: have of the twins. I mean, I don't even know
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: how many. I've got birthday Chris and a Christmas, Thanksgiving birthday.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: It just goes on and on, a summer vacation for
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: every year they're fifteen, Karen, those are my souvenirs, But
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: their souvenirs are of the crime emtie. They want to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: relive it. That's the whole thing is that it's exciting
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: to them. So two pieces of clothing. I hate to
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: say this, but I have a feeling that will be underwear,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: because they like to do that, to take underwear, to
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: take some kind of token that they've been there, that
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: they do this, it gives them a really good sense
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: of themselves. They're powerful, they're above the law, and they
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: got away with it, and they're caught dead in the water.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. The evidence which suggests this, and rumors have abounded,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: but we're not going to know until we have the
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: release date of those warrants and probably will cause affidavits
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: in November. Later on in November, we think, but what
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: out the theory that the girls were redressed and that
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: somehow some of their clothing were interchanged by accident. Again,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: those of us in this business, redressing is something that occurs.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I mean's something that they ched bundy Ah after the
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: person was dead. He'd redressed them and do their hair
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: and makeup. He'd bathed their bodies in the bathtub at
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the house Israel keys did the same thing, makeup, hair,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: redressed them, posed them, raiding the girl's hair like yeah,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: oh gosh, yeah, that's part of their fantasy. They're acting
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: something out. So a lot of times we focus on
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the murder, but it is a sexually generated crime, there's
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: no question about it. And again his computers, when you
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: know the superintendent mentioned the lab so often, the electronic part,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the biology, the tool marks, the voice analysis, the hairs,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: the fiber, the blood, the blood, the tool marks which
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: is from a knife. But I also think Arthon is
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: going to be a money tree too. Doctor Todd M.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Barr now joining us speaking of blood. He is a
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: board certified and atomic clinical forensic pathologist joining us out
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: of Ohio. He's featured in Thin Places, Essays from in
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Between and you can find him on Twitter at Todd
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Barr MA. That's from Medical Exam or doctor Barr. Thank
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: you for being with us and waiting for the build
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: up to the scientists, the medical examiners that ultimately sis
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: there are no eyewitnesses as of yet will make or
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: break this case. We learned there are copious amounts of
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: blood at the scene. How is that likely to have happened? Well, Nancy,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: it seems to me. I know that there's some speculation
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: that possibly the throats of the victims have been slashed,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: and you know, because the carrodi arteries are under such
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: high pressure, there would be a lot of um spatter
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: and disbursement of blood in the process. So you're absolutely
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a hundred percent correct that could be transfer of that
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: blood evidence not only onto the victim's clothing, but also
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: onto the perpetrator. So um, And my thought was, you know,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: maybe he even was burying the murder weapon that in
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: the fire pit area, possibly the clothing. Um. And I've
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: worked on several serial killer cases before, and they do
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: like to take a trophy from uh. You know, it's
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: been my experience that that that these articles that they
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: collect are basically like a trophy. And I have to
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: also think to myself that perhaps these people revisiting the
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: case trying to get involved in the case. There may
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: even be some some notoriety element, like they actually want
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: to be caught. Um So I think that, you know,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: with a twenty million dollar bond on this gentleman, there's
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: got to be some significant evidence that they found. I
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: know it's all sealed, but I'm very much concerned that
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: there are other victims at play here. Wow, that was
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of information, doctor Todd Barr. Still, I'm just
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: digesting everything that you just said. Got a question if
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: this is, as we believe, a stabbing death, which I
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: find very very unusual. I would have suspected a strangling
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: death or some sort of asphyxiation under these circumstances, But
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: due to the copious amounts of blood too, which have
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: been alluded in the documents, it leads me to think
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: that it is in fact a stabbing death. If there
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: are multiple stab wounds, such as in that Jodi Arias
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: case where Travis Alenxander was stabbed twenty nine plus times
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: and then shot, would you be able to match that
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: They're called tool markings, match the wounds up to a
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: particular knife, and if so, how depending on the type
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: of knife that may have been used, If it was
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: one that had a serrated edge. You could actually if
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: it if the tool actually got into the bone in
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the area that's that's where the tool marks are found
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: when the when the blade would pass over the bone,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: and if it's serrated, they can actually match up those
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: serrated edges almost identically to to show um, you know
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: that a specific tool was used. So if they do
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: have the murder weapon and they have evidence of serrations
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: on the bone, then that would very easily be matched up.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Dodger Toddbar you really need to do an audio book
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: on all the cases that you have worked, because just
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: hearing you explain it is very very intriguing, especially when
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: you're talking about matching up tool our keys. Guys, it
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: ain't over yet. It is far from over. Take a
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: listen to this. This is rather unusual, but it's not
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: going to be forever. This is very complex and just
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: since um what less than forty eight hours ago, we
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: have over two hundred new additional tips. So we've still
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: got some We've still got a lot of work to do,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: but I'm proud of where we are. Can you characterize
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: any of those tips if you could say, well, it's
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: kind of what we have gotten are like, WHOA, we've
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: gotten something. I mean, I know you can't talk specifics.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I'll say that, I'll say to you, to to everybody
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: watching this morning. Every one of those matter, every single
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: one of the matters. So if you think it's a
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: little bit unusual, but us tell us, let us figure
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: that out. And we're not always going to tell you
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: what we know until the time is right. We'll never
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: tell you what we think. While the investigation is ongoing
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: and tips pouring in, the harsh reality is setting into
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the girls families. Their quest has been to been to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: find the killer. Take a listen to our cut seventy eight.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I've always told people that when we were told that
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: they'd hear me yelling from the rooftops, and when they
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: told us, it was really just kind of like, oh,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: reality was much different than what I totally expected. I
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: got up the next morning and got my coffee and
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: got ready to post my today as the day and
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: realize that, well, I don't have to do this anymore.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: So I think that's when summer reality set in and
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, now, now what do I do? What is
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: my purpose? You're hearing Libby's grandma, our friend now Baky
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Patty speaking to our friends at chel N What now.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I advise everyone that now focus is on a true verdict.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice and falls. Goodbye friend,