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#HURDLEMOMENT: Your Biggest Skincare Questions Answered With Renee Rouleau · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Every day, that little damage that's doing damage to your DNA,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: that's doing damage to your collagen down the road. That's
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: why you're going to get wrinkles. So you know, the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: earlier you can hop on this, the better.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily Abody here bringing you another installment of
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Hurdle Moment from Hurdle Today. I am electrified. Wow exciting adjective.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I decided to go with their I'm amped to chat
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: with Renee at Rouleau. She is the founder and CEO
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: of Renee Rouleau Skincare. She's also an esthetician and a
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: skincare expert, so I can think of no one better
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: to be chatting with to get hold of your skincare
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: questions answered. I will be the first one to volunteer
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: this information. I am no skincare with. In fact, over
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: the last god year two years, I have been definitely
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: dabbling in a bunch of different products, but still haven't
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: landed on the goldilocks routine. So I'm really excited to
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: dive into a lot of really good information today with Renee.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: We cover everything from what should the basic to.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Be for someone who like me, may not have their
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: own perfect skincare routine We also talk about what those
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: small bumps might be on your forehead if you are
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: working out all.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: The time and you feel like they may not be
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: going away ever.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: We cover mask met and retinol in anti aging products
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: and if you should be using them, collagen and if
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: there's a place for it in your diet, And on
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the diet note, we talk about if there are certain
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: foods that we should be avoiding if we want clearer skin. Seriously,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I learned so so much recording this.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: That is the biggest understatement.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: In today's episode, Renee mentions the Renee Rolow Skincare blog.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I will make sure to link to that in today's
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: show notes and in the show notes today, I am
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: also putting a link to different organizations on Austin or
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: relief efforts. RENEE and the company is based out of Austin,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: as many of you are aware of. I'm sure Texas
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: recently experienced a winter storm that has left many without
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: power or water.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Many are going hungry.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: And do not have access to more food and water,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: healthcare workers included, so the community over there rallying together
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: to support those in need. RENEE has a great page
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: on the site on where you can learn more on
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: where you can donate or volunteer in the Austin area.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: As always, as you're listening today, make sure to tag
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: the podcast on social media at Fertile Podcast. I am
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: also over at Emily Abodi. With that, let's get to hurdling.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Today. I am talking to Renee Rollo.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: She is an esthetician, a CEO, OH and founder of
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Renee Ralow Skincare.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Hey, Renee, Hey, Emily.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Great to be here.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I am so amped and we have so much to cover,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: so I will waste no time before we get into
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the swing of things. Tell me a little bit about
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Renee Ralow Skincare. What do you guys offer?
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So I have a company that's based in Austin called
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Renee Reulau Skincare. We've been in business, coming up on
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: twenty five years this August, and we are one hundred
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: percent e commerce company selling direct to consumer. We ship
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: all over the world. I have my own skincare line.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I'm very hands on with product development. I've taken a
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: lot of cosmetic chemistry courses at UCLA and I've been
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: a practicing esthetician for over thirty years, so I have
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of skin knowledge. My line is based on
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: nine different skin types. I learned early on as an
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: esthetician working with clients that skins a little more complicated
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: than dry normal oily. There's a little more going on,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: you know, qan. You know adult acne or and you
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: know hyper pigmentation and post breakup mark simorization, and you
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: know dehydration and all sorts of things.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I have a confession. We'll have two confessions.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: The first confession is that I don't have a solid
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: skincare routine.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Okay, we'll talk about that in a second.
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  Speaker 2: The second confession is I have in my life purchased
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: one what I would say to be more pricey skincare
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: option or skincare solution.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: And that was the anti bump that you make.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, awesome. Yeah, that's a number one best seller.
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  Speaker 2: I was dealing with some cistic acne and one of
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: my girlfriends, who works at a lure, was like, this
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: is what you need, this is it, and so I
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: spent like, I think how much does that retail for?
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's like forty six. Maybe I went for it.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, I trust you, I'm
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: going to do it. And she was right. She was
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: so right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's our number one best selling product for a reason.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: The person that's like me that, here's the sentence, I
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: don't really have much of a substantial skincare routine.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Talk to me about basics.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: If someone can identify that way, where do they even begin.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: So let's look at it from like kind of a
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: skin tip standpoint, and then we'll kind of talk about products.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: But the first thing is you have to stop the
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: UV damage. So what we know about, you know, keeping
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: skin healthy and youthful and glowing and all the things
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: that people want is the number one enemy is UV light.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: It is not it's not smoking, it's not genetics, it's
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: not even passage of time. It is UV light seeing
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: the skin. So UV light certainly is sunlight, but it's
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: also daylight. So right now it's winter and where a
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: lot of people live, it's cloudy, but it's still light outside,
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  Speaker 1: and that is still you won't get a you know,
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  Speaker 1: you can't get a sunburn necessarily on a cold winter day,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: but you still get the UVA rays. And those are
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: actually the ones that are responsible for aging more so
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: than the UV B rays. Those are what give you know,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the skin color like a sunburn or a sun tan
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: so the most. So let's just pretend you never even
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: wash your face, didn't even ever do anything. The biggest
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: impact you're going to have on your skin is wearing
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: sun protection. So the mistake that people make though is,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you know, first of all, not wearing sunscreen in the winter.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: So obviously I've cleared that up. You've got to do that.
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  Speaker 1: You also get UV rays inside your home or inside
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: you know, a car or subway or whatever. Anytime you
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: or your skin seas daylight, that's what you need to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: kind of stop. So the key is about proper sun
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: application from sun up to sundown. So let's just say,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you know, you wake up in the morning and you're like,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go outside for a while. I'm gonna
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: go downstairs get coffee and you know whatever whatever I mean,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: even at you know, seven in the morning, if you
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: have daylight coming in your windows, that's going to add
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: up over the course of a lifetime. So literally, the
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: first thing I do when I get up in the
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: morning is I get up, use the restroom, and I
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: will dust on a powder onto my face, like a
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: mineral powder, and I'll dust that on my face. This
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: is before I wash my teeth, you know, wash my
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: face before I brush my teeth, before I do shower,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: before I do anything. Literally, it's the first thing I
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: do when I get up in the morning. That way,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: when I go downstairs, you know, have a lazy morning,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: don't feel like showering at whatever. My skin is protected.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I also live in a house that's almost a super
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: modern house and it's almost all glass, so it's especially
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: important because I get lots of light in my house.
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  Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's you know, that's a good thing
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  Speaker 1: to think about. Also, you don't want to wash your
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  Speaker 1: face at night and take your sunscreen off until it's
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  Speaker 1: dark out, which most people don't, but still that's something good.
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  Speaker 1: But proper sunscreen application means find when you like that's
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: not too greasy, not too heavy, that's agreeable with your skin,
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  Speaker 1: that you like wearing. You have to apply it generously.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: A lot of people think it's about the number, like,
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  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's an SPF one hundred or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter because if you use it sparingly, you're
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  Speaker 1: just not going to get the proper sun protection. Plus
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: one hundred isn't protecting you twice of an SBF fifty
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: like people think anyway, So you need to apply it generously.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: You can't, you know, a little dab won't do you.
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  Speaker 1: And you also need to be wearing makeup every single day.
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  Speaker 1: And let me explain again, because UV light year round
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: is you know, the biggest enemy of the skin. We
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: want to protect the skin from the UV light. So
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: people where they'll put on a moisturizer sunscreen hopefully apply
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  Speaker 1: it generously. But it degrades during the day because your
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: skin has oil secretion and things like that. Certainly, if
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  Speaker 1: you're outside in the direct sunlight, it's going to wear
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: off more quickly. But makeup in the form of a
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  Speaker 1: liquid makeup, of foundation, maybe a powder, they all have
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  Speaker 1: sun protective qualities in it. Even if it doesn't say it,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have sunscreen in it. So like powder, I
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: just use some cheapy one from Revlong first thing in
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the morning. It has titanium dioxide in it and iron oxides,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: which are sunscreen ingredients. The brand just chose not to
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: have it FDA approved as a sunscreen and they don't
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: market it that way. They market it just as a
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: setting powder or whatever. But it gives you V protection.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: So something like that put on over sunscreen is an
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: insurance policy to ensure you're keeping that UV light off
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the skin. Foundation makeup again, you know, if it has
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: if it says it has sunscreen in it, great, Even
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: if it doesn't say it has sunscreen in it, it
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: still does have sunscreen in it. And wearing some liquid
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: foundation makeup again is also an insurance policy to make
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: sure that your skin is stained protected from UV light.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And also new research is showing that may because the
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: iron oxides it has is preventing against blue light damage
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: as well, which we hear a lot about. So yeah,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: so my best tip is for people to really wrap
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: their head around how can I stop the damage? Because
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: every day that little damage that's doing damage to your DNA,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: that's doing damage to your collagen down the road, that's
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: why you're going to get wrinkles. So you know, the
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: earlier you can hop on this the better.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So interesting, and you mentioned moisturizer with SPF in it.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: I was talking to an expert recently and they reiterated
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: the importance of not only using that moisturizer with the SBF,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: but then using a separate SBF.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Would you agree with that?
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: So great question. So you want to think of the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: skin if you think of like a sponge. So think
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: about the sponge that you know you wash the dishes
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: with when it's dry and you add water to it,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the sponge will fill up. But eventually, if you have
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: water from your sin, keep pouring on it, it just overflows, right,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So I like to look at the skin the same way.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: The skin can only absorb so much. So that's why
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: also when people get into like layering products, you know
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: nine steps products, serum after serum after serum. Again, your
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: skin can only absorb so much. So knowing your skin
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: acts like a sponge, you don't want to give it
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: too much because then nothing's going to kind of work
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: after a while. So I recommend a moisturizer with a
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: sunscreen in it, because if you put on a moisturizer first,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: that moisturizer non sunscreen is coating your skin cells. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: then if you put on a sunscreen, Granted it depends
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: on the type of sunscreen, they act kind of all
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: work differently, but depending on the sunscreen, you know, it
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: may not it may not properly cote all the cells
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: properly because you've already put a barrier underneath it. So
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: that's why I like a two in one.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Interesting, So you mentioned something that is one of the
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: most post popular questions that was coming in from the
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: listeners layering, especially when it comes to that ever popular
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: insta friendly nighttime skincare routine. Talk to me about the
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: quote unquote right way to go about putting things on
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: in the evening, like the what goes first, what goes second,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: and you know how many steps there should be, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: we're talking again for that like entry level skincare human.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, So the general rule after you wash your face
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: is you want to go thinnest to thickest. So if
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: you think about the consistency of products, that's the order
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: you want to go in. So in a perfect world,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: this is what somebody would do. They would wash their face.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You know, cleansing is obviously super important. Ideally they would
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: use a water based alcohol free toner. So that's obviously
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: very thin. It's the consistency of water. The benefit of
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: toner is wipes off any cleanser residue to really make
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: sure you're getting the skin clean, getting makeup off. It
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: removes impure tap water, so salts, chlorines, and minerals that
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: can dehydrate the skin. When you think about a glass
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: shower door, that little white film that gets left on
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: your door, on your glass shower doors, that's like the crud.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: You don't want that on your skin. They also, damp
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: skin is ten times more permeable, so after you apply, oh,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and you also want to leave it damp on the skin.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: So when you put on your next product, which ideally
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: is a serum, and we'll talk a little bit more
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: about that in a second, when you put a serum
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: on and you seal it on damp skin, it's ten
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: times more permeable. So that may have an opportunity to
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: increase permeability of those active ingredients, so it might make
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: your serum last longer or work better, I should say.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And then also when you put on a serum and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: then subsequently a moisturizer, when the skin is damp from
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the toner, it's like giving your skin a drink of moisture,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: so you get really hydrated. So so uh so tone or
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: ideally is important. And then next is to use one serum.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So there's this whole thing going on right now about layering,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and the problem with layering products is, let's just say
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: you put on one serum that has one active ingredient,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: and then you layer on another serum because you're like, oh,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I want to try that ingredient, and then lay on
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: another serum. First of all, it's diluting all of those serums.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And because again your skin can act, you know, can
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: only absorb so much. So the first one is doing
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: all the heavy lifting. But then by the second one,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the third one, or some people do even four. It's
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: diluting all of them. They can absorb if you mix
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: them together, which some people do. If you mix two
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: serums together, you're getting fifty percent efficacy from each of
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: them because now you've diluted them. So I really believe
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: in using one serum and you have you know, maybe
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: that has a hero ingredient and that is your focus
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: for the night, and then maybe the next night use
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: a different serum that has a different focus, and the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: next night a different serum with a different focus. That way,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like eating a diet, right. You don't
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: want to be eating the same thing all the time.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: You want to you know, get a variety of different
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: nutrients and so but you want them at one hundred percent.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: So that's why you use one serum with one focus
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: and then change it up at night with different focuses.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm assuming in this process obviously consult with someone
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: who can best advise you as to what serums would
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: be best for your skin.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Consult with someone or if you go to rene reload
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: dot com and take the skin type quiz once, once
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: your skin type is identified, it's going to tell you
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: now we do. We do offer virtual skin consultation. So
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: for people who do want expert advice and more personal
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: advice from one of our in house estheticians, they can
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Got it? Okay, So then you go from the serum
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: to right your.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Last step, which is your last step, and you know
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you always want to use a moisturizer for your skin type.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: The problem that I see some people make is, let's
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: just say they have acne and now they're using really
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: harsh products to dry out their skin. And now they're like,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: oh my god, my skin is so dry because I've
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: been using all these harsh things. They have to use
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: a heavy moisturizer, you know, and they end up using
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: one for like dry skin that's not their skin type.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And so sometimes people can get clogged and add more
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: problems to their breakouts if they're not using the right moisturizer.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: So the goal is if you have acne, you don't
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: have to dry out your skin, and I certainly have
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: great solutions for that on my line. But drying out
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: the skin is making the problem worse. Acne is a
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: skin disease of inflammation, and for you to overdry your
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: skin and make it uncomfortable and make it more inflamed
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: is not helping anything. Now, there's a time and a
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: place when you want to dry out the skin, for example,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: with like a drying spot treatment right on a very
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: specific blemish to dry out the infection. That makes sense,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: But you don't want to be wiping all these really
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: harsh drying things all over the face, especially on areas
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: where there's no breakouts present. And that's the problem using
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: all these harsh acne products as they're being put all
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: over the face and you don't need it all over
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the face. So yeah, using a moisturizer for your skin type.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: So that would be a good four step routine, literally,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you know, four products. I know it sounds like a lot,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: but if you time it, you know it's like two
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and a half minutes, super easy.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Should you be waiting a certain amount of time in
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: between applying each product.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So after you wash your face, you have a sixty
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: second window before moisture evaporation occurs. So you want to
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: after you wash your face, you want to get on
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: your next product immediately or at least within sixty seconds,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: so that's super quick transition. Then wipe the toner over
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the skin, leave a damp, apply your serum. Ideally you'll
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: wait like a minute before you put on your moisturizer.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: Got you, got you?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: And then I mean when I did start to implement
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: some sort of a routine that looked like this, although
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: again I'm still working on it here, but I noticed
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: and in my head was like, what are all these
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: influencers doing. I'm like walking out of the bathroom and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: it's like not like everything isn't quote unquote rubbed in,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: but like my face still needs like at least ten
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: minutes before I can like safely lay down on a pillow.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Is that wrong? Am I doing something wrong?
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Well? No, I mean the skin's wet right right, so
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: it's sticky and you know, depending on what kind of
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: products you used on it. So yeah, I mean you
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: want to let your skin dry, you don't want to
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: just you know, I mean, yeah, it will feel kind
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of gross to be sticking on a pillow.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I'm like, am I the only one that's dealing with that?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah? That's funny.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: The next question that came in the price range for
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: skincare products varies greatly. A lot of people their barrier
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: to entry into really working hard and committing to a
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: skincare routine is they're like, I don't know what I
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: should spend on money on, what I shouldn't spend money on.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Is there anything to say.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: For perhaps comparing some of the you know, brands you
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: might find in the in the drug store versus something
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: that you might find online or a more expensive company.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean in general, there's great drug store
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: products there, great expensive products, right, It's all over the board.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: There's also crappy drug store products and crappy expensive products.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So it's you know, there's no bias there. But the
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: key is about educating yourself. You want to be an
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: educated consumer, so when you purchase your product, you're educated
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: about it. And what I mean by that is, for example,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: case in point a cleanser. Okay, there's you know, you
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: want to the main thing with a cleanser is you
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: don't want it to be high lathering, high foaming. You
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: want a low foaming cleanser. You want to look at
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the bubbles. I realize when you're buying a product it's
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: hard to do this, but the general idea is the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: smaller the bubbles, the less drying it is. The larger
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the lather or larger the bubbles, the more drying it is.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: But the key to make sure you're not having a
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: drying cleanser because you never want to wash your face,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: and right out of the gate, you're dehydrating your skin
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: because now your products have to work even harder because
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you just stripped it right. So, but the key is
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to look for something called sulfate free. The word sulfate
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: free indicates that it doesn't use what's called sodium laurel
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: sulfate or sodium laures sulfate or ammonium laures sulfate or
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: ammonium laurel sulfate, and those are kind of the no
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: no ingredients. Those are surfactants that are just too drying.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: They're higher than the skin's pH they're going to just
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: you know, compromise the barrier and that's never a good thing.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And I always say, like, there's no like miracle product.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: It's about the skincare habits and the knowledge that you
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: have to really take care of your skin. And so
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I just highly encourage your listeners to sign up for
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: our emails because they're so so so good, they will
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: not disappoint.
• 20:42
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• 22:06
  Speaker 2: not regret it. People want to know about Masne. They
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: want to know what they're supposed to do. Talk to me, like,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: two things that you should do if you're dealing with Masne?
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: What are they?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So, I very much as a skincare educator, I've
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: always tried not to just be when someone says, oh,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I have a problem with this, and I go ooh,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: buy my product or use this product? Right. I hate
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: throwing products at people as an answer. So a lot
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: of times through my education, I'm always trying to find
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: tips and tricks and little lifestyle things that can help
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the greater good for their skin. But in this instance,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I am going to throw product people's way because the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: reality is is that when you have a mask on,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: there's more moisture, there's more bacteria. You know, you're creating
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: an environment in the skin where more bacteria is thriving
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: and for some reasons we don't even know. And so
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you have to reduce the microbial account on the surface
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: of the skin and within the pores to help that.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: So like there's just no like tip or trick, right,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: you have to adjust your skincare routine. And so, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: we have a product a cleanser called Rapid Response Detox Cleanser,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: which is great to wash at night, really concentrating in
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: your massy area. We also, you know, there's a mask
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: called Rapid Response Detals Mass that you can do at
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: night after cleansing for a minimum of five minutes and
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: it basically resets the skin. We also have a Rapid
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Response Detox toner that you can wipe over your face
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: a couple of times during the day, you know, under
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: your mask, just to you know, kind of reset all
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: of that. So yeah, that's really what kind of needs
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: to happen is you need to topically kind of you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: because it's not a diet thing, right, you know, a
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: lot of times, like if you're getting acting, we might
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: you know, dive into your diet, but this is something
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that is best addressed topically. You're not going to you know,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: eliminate certain foods and not get massy because it's not
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of what's occurring topically breathing and you know,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: suffocation and mask and that sort of thing. So but
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: as far as so those are really kind of the
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: best kind of things. But I would definitely say, like
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: go lighter on moisturizer in that area because when you're breathing,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of moisture there anywhere anyway from your breath,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: so you're kind of the integrity of the skin is
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: kind of staying hydrated, so you don't need a you know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: something heavy. So lighten up moisturizer. Yeah, wash your skin
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: really well at night. Ideally, you know, if your mask
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: me is kind of more chin area, you might wash
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: your whole face with your regular cleanser and then use
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: more of an antibacterial cleanser with a second cleanse just
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: along the chin and lower half of the face where
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you're getting it. So that's a nice way to kind
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: of treat that area without treating the whole face for
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: you know, for acne when there's no acne present on
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: your cheeks or forehead totally.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: And then you mentioned diet.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of us are seeing collagen supplements now marketed
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: toward hair, skin, and nails. Talk to me about if
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: that's something that should be in my diet. Is that
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: like does that make a difference for me?
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So there is no research showing that it's going to
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: make a difference. You know, Will it hurts you? No?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Do I take it?
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: No?
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: You know, Like to me, I I focus on everything
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: on what where is my time and energy best spent
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and if I'm going to put take something orally, there
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: are other things that I think are better to take
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: orally and that are you know, more proven or whatever.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: So the research just isn't there to support it now.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Will the research come out later that shows it's the
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: miracle worker maybe, you know, but but right now there's
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: just not enough research showing that it's making a difference.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: A lot of us have heard just the concept that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: like dairy can cause break as. Is there anything like
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: kind of across the board that is really triggering for
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: you know, what's going on with their skin?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So great, great question. And the answer is just
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: like each skin type, you know, each skin is different,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: which is why I have nine skin types. You know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: everyone the source of everyone's breakout skin problems are very
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: unique to them. The million dollar question, and I'll get
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: back to the food thing as second, but the million
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: dollar question is why do I break out? Right? So
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the thing about mask me is we know the cause.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: It is from mask me, right, It's from wearing masks
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: because of all of a sudden you didn't have breakouts,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and now you're wearing a mask and the areas that
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: you're wearing a mask are getting breakouts. It's pretty safe
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to assume it's mask me. But for all other types
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: of breakouts, we don't know the source, right, and and
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: that's what makes it really challenging. And everyone is unique
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that way. Someone's source of their acne if they're able
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to determine it, you know, like they may find it,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: they may never find it. Sometimes we just think acne
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: is just you have bad luck, a case of bad luck,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: like you know, like genetics, whatever it may be. Sometimes
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it's bad luck. We'll never know the source. So in
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the case of diet, there are I can't tell you
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: how many times people have said to me, Renee, I
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: eat so well and so clean, yet I still get breakouts. Well,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: it's because diet does not have as much of an
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: effect as we think. I mean, if you could just
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: eat clean and get rid of your acne, I mean,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: it's not that simple. That doesn't happen. I also know
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: plenty of people who eat terribly and eat junk food
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and never get breakouts at all, right, and have great skin.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: So I think it sounds great. You know, people are
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: far more focused on nutrition these days and eating well
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: and aware of what they're putting into their body, which
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: is amazing and we should be that way. But the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: correlation between skin and diet, you just there isn't as
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: much as people would like to think. The one thing
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: that is as close to black and white as I
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: can see is dairy. Is consumption of dairy. If you
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: get chin and jawline breakout, typically morcistic, the hardsore notts
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: under the skin. And you are a consumer of dairy,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: even a small amount, not necessarily. You know, you're eating
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: buckets of ice cream every night or drinking gallons of milk,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: you may want to look at your dairy intake because
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I have literally cured for the past thirty years of
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: you know, of me being an esthetician. I've literally cured
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people's actne just by
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: having them completely omit or reduce their intake of dairy. Now.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: But here's the interesting thing. Someone will say, I've always
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: eaten dairy and I never had a problem. In the
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: past year I started breaking out. Your body also changes.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: You can also be reactive to dairy, and you can
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: also grow out of it being reactive. And that's what's
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the crazy thing is is that it's it's just not
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: you know, the body is always changing. I know plenty
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: of people that couldn't eat one bite of ice cream
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: without breaking out in systic acne, and now they can
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: enjoy ice cream, you know, ten years later without a problem.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: So that's why it's really hard. There's not it's hard
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: to have black and white, these hard set rules, like
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: just the body is a mystery and it's always changing
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: and we will never know why.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: All right, we're winding down here. Two more questions.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: The first question I recently per advice when I went
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: to see a dermatologist tried to experiment with retinol it
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: didn't go well.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: It did not go well for me.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: So some basic guidelines maybe if you could offer for
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: someone who's interested in using that, because I know that
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: when it comes to anti aging, this is one of
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the you know, the things that we hear is a
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: good thing to implement into the routine.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: So great question. I get this one a lot. Question.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Was this a prescription retinoid or was this a retinal
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: product that's available without a prescription.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Available without a prescription, but given to me via my dermatology.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so it was like a stronger non prescription Okay,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: definitely a product like that. You have to work in
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: slowly and monitor what the side effects are so that
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: you can monitor your routine. That's yeah. So I mean
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: that is expected, that is normal. That you know, what
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: you experienced is completely normal. I mean in theory, what
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: is doing is it's kind of injuring the skin and
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: causing you know, side effects and the skin shedding and
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And that's exactly what happened. So
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that's that's great. It worked, But it's all about managing that.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: But the general thing is is you have to use
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: it sparingly. The best way to use it as always
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: put a moisturizer on right afterward. Eventually you want to
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: wait a little bit before you put your moisturizer on
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: because you want it to activate retinal receptors in your skin,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and it will be diluted if you put a lotion
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: on right afterwards. So so you know, you do want
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: to work up to being able to wait, you know,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: ten minutes, twenty minutes before you put a moisturizer on.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: But using a gentle cleanser, you know, using it, you know,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: just starting you know, sparingly once a week, eventually work
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: out twice a week. You never want to get to
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the point where you're using a retinal or a prescription
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: retinoid every night. And the main reason is is because
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: just you know, you want to give your skin a
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: variety of different ingredients and you don't want to just
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: be hitting that one home. Your skin needs antioxidants, it
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: needs you know, peptides, other barrier repair ingredients, and so
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: you kind of want a variety. So at the very most,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I would say someone should use a retinal five nights
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: a week. I personally only use it three nights a week,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: so because I like to change it up, I like
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: to throw some acids in there, and but yeah, so,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: and then another thing is is you do when you're
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: using a retinol, You do want to use a gentle
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: exfoliating acid serum at least like once or twice a
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: week on the skin at night, because that will make
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: you know. When you have using a retinal, you get
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: dry skin. Dry skin acts as a barrier and so
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: when you're using good products on your skin, they can't
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: penetrate as well through this wall of dry skin. So
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: in order to enhance your retinol, if you use like
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the next night or when you're flaky or whatever, use
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: an exfoliating acid serum with let's just say lactic acid
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: or glycolic acid in it, and while you sleep at night,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: it's working to gently dissolve and digest those dry cells.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: So not only will it make your skin not look
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: as dry and flaky, but then when you use the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: retinal the next night, it penetrates deeper because you don't
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: have that wall of dead skin cells that it has
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: to try to attempt to break through. So using an
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: exfoliating acid will help manage the side effects of the dryness,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: and that's an important product to be alternating.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: With Okay, Now, literally we could talk for hours about
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: all of the questions that have come in, but I'm
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: gonna end us here because I know that we have
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of active individuals listening to the show. What
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: are we to do about some of those small bumps
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: that might come at the hairline from sweat and wearing
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: hats and perhaps even I mean, I guess on other
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: areas of the face as well, what do you do
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: about that?
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So I'm so glad that you asked this. Blemishes have
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: infection and the ones, the ones that don't have infection
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: are the ones that just sit there and they're not red,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: they're not sore, and they hang out all the time.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: They could be there for months, right, they don't go
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: away where a regular blemish goes away, you know, five,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: seven days, two weeks, whatever, it's gone. So those are
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: called clog poors, close comodmes, and it's basically where you
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: have just some hardened oil that's blocking in the poor
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: and creating a raised bump. And the challenge, as I
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: know you know this, Emily, is the problem with raised
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: bumps is you can't cover them up, right if you
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: put foundation on, like they're still a bumpy right, so
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: it's like they're bumpy, they show all the time. So
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: generally the key is probably the best thing to do
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: at home is to start by using an exfoliating acid serum,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: something that has lactic and glycolic because that will kind
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: of that will kind of take away that hardened wall
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: of skin that's keeping that bump impacted. And then something
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: with salacilic acid that goes deeper into the poor and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: can kind of clear out the poor lining. So I
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: have a product called like Poor and Wrinkle Perfecting Serum.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I have one called BHA Clear Fraying Serum. If you're
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: using an exfoliating acid serum that's meant to kind of
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: clear pores over time, that can definitely help. Now you
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: also have to, you know, depending on how you do
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: or how some a product like that works, you may
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: have to get extractions and actually clean them out first
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and get rid of that debris that's blocked in the poor,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: and then an ffoliating acids here and will help keep
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: them clean and prevent them from coming back. So that
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: might mean going to see a professional and having them
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: just do a really deep poor cleansing and get all
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: that blockage out you need to find an esthetician that's
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: really good at extractions, because that for some people that
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: they're scared or that's not their area of expertise, or
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: you have to be very careful. But I do have
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: a blog post about how to do manual extractions at home.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: It involves using what's called a landset, which you can
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: get from a pharmacy, where you very gently pierce the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: skin to create a little bit of an opening so
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: things can pop out really easily. So, especially with a pandemic,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: you may have to do it at home, and I
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: give you good tips on how to do it.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Wow, you are a wealth of knowledge. I feel like
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: there was so much to digest here, but all such
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: helpful information. Renee again, reiterate to us the name of
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: your website, Where do we find you and how do
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: we follow you on Instagram?
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, so my website is Renee reload dot com or
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: if you just type into Google Renee Skincare you'll find it.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Because my last name has a lot of oowels in
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: it and hard to spell, but Renee relat dot com.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: But yeah, take the skin type quiz. Sign up for
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: our email so you get all of our latest blog posts. Yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: get educated about your skin. We ship all over the
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: world my personal instagram. If you want to learn about
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: me kind of personally, behind the scenes of a CEO
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: motorcycle rider girl who's just trying to live her best life,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: it's Renee Relo. And then if you want to learn
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: more about skin and our offerings and get skincare tips
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: and advice than our instagram, Renee Relau Skincare is what
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: you'll want to follow.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: For that amazing I am over at Emily a Body
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and at Hurdle Podcast. Another Hurdle Conquered. Catch you guys
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: next time.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: As