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From Portraits to Podcasts: The Inspiring Story of Taya Iv, E023 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to this online episode of the Mood Podcast, where I talked with Tyra Yves.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Tyra is a portrait photographer, podcast host, writer and 500px ambassador.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: She started taking photos at the age of 12, when she stumbled upon an impressive collection of self-portraits taken by different photographers, and has had a sharp rise in the industry based off her early success on social media and photography platforms a few years back.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: This journey has led her to podcasting, writing, language learning and a plethora of other interests, and we touched on all of these during our conversation Today.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: She hosts Sunshine and Rain, a podcast about talented people around the world, and a great big photography world, a photography podcast for beginners and professionals.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: We talked further about her passions in life, her tips on self-portraits and general photography advice, as well as her love for spirituality and finding purpose.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Tyra is a truly talented photographer, but now she has turned her attention to podcasting and other human interests.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: It's clear to see her talents and skillset have been transposed and I'm truly excited to see her growth in this arena.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: So here is Tyra Yves.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: We made it, we're live.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Welcome, tyra Yves.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Is that how I pronounce your name?
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, Well, my last name is Ibanova actually, but I shortened it because the privacy reasons.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: When I was a child, because I got into photography quite young and I don't know, I didn't feel good sharing my full name online, and so it kind of started out with Ivy.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: You can pronounce it any way you like.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Hello, interesting.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I didn't find.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Obviously I mean now it makes sense.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't find any fuller name.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: You know doing some research on you, but I'm happy with Tyra Yves.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: If you're happy with that, I'm happy with it.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: If that's how everyone knows you, then we'll go with that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'll go with you.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Well, let's start with that.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Let's start with how people know you and those that are watching that maybe don't know.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: You give them a little bit of an introduction about yourself and obviously, as you mentioned, you got into photography very early.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: So let's start with your history and who you are and why you're here today.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So I got into photography when I was 12 years old Now I'm 26 and the reason I got into it was back then I was really into drawing, I really wanted to become an illustrator and I at the time was looking for websites for inspiration just anime drawing references, stuff like that and I stumbled upon a website called DeviantArt.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but it's this artsy website.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: It's still alive today and I was looking for inspiration there.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden I stumbled upon this amazing collection of portraits, photographs of people, and I was so amazed by the quality of the pictures.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I was amazed by the colors and obviously, not being a photographer, I had no idea how they took those images, but it was just impressive.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: And then I was even more impressed when I realized that most of them were self-portraits.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: And that's how I initially got into self-portraits photography, because, as a shy kid who didn't really have a lot of friends in school, I wasn't comfortable with approaching people asking them to take their photo.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: So the idea of taking self-portraits was really interesting to me because it meant that I was in charge of everything.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: And so I started taking self-portraits using a very simple 3 megapixel smartphone camera that I had at the time and the results were not impressive, but I was so passionate about it.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I had this huge spark that I had never felt before about something and I knew it was something I wanted to pursue, and so that's how it all started.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: And then I started sharing my work on social media.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: So DeviantArt's Facebook started meaning a lot of photographers in different industries online and kind of started to grow my network unintentionally and started to share my story was quite personal for a while and, yeah, that's basically how it all started.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: So it's been a really amazing journey, and now I post a couple of podcasts.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: So one of them is Great Big Photography World, which is a photography podcast that you've been on, and the second one is when I started recently, just called Sunshine and Rain, and that focuses on talented people around the world, so interviews with lawyers, doctors, actors, basically anyone who has an interesting life, and yeah, I think I'm rambling a little bit, but that's a little bit me.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: It's a joy talking all fair about being on the other side of the microphone.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Right You've done.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, how many podcasts have you done?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Hundreds, right 100 and 17.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so you're very well versed in hosting.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: It's just weird, isn't it being the other side of the microphone and you feel like you're waffling and not quite, unless you're very experienced in being interviewed.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: It's always especially for someone maybe like yourself, who I'll get onto this in a minute but certainly a shy child Do you find that that is still kind of not awkward?
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: But do you still feel kind of uncomfortable with that, even if it's not a live or not a recorded podcast like this?
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Do you feel a little bit shy still with with camera in hand or when people are asking you questions about stuff?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think I feel as shy as I used to, and that's thanks to all the podcasting experience, because when I first got started around three and a half years ago, I was a wreck.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was so self-conscious about the way that I presented myself online, even though the podcast episodes were obviously about the guests, not about me.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Regardless, I was so scared of how I sounded my voice.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: We're our own worst critics, obviously, and thankfully, as you mentioned as well, being on the other side kind of helps you understand what it's like to be a guest, because for me, I have a lot of guest experience.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I know how they feel behind the scenes because I usually have conversations with them before I start recording, and so it's always interesting for me to see how they feel.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe everyone's nervous.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean I definitely feel nervous, of course, especially because it's videos.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: So, but not as before, like if we had this interview three years ago, I would have been stuttering a lot right now, shaking.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Well, you sound brilliant.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks for the introduction as well.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Why, I mean so many questions, that so many?
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Questions like why did you do this?
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Why are you doing this?
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: But why?
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Let's start with photography.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Why photography?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I know you've explained kind of how you got into it, but what is it about photography that you know gets you buzzing and gets you excited?
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And where does that passion come from?
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: And why do you think there is passion for photography?
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: That's a really interesting question, and for me, the reason I started was that I just simply felt that spark and I couldn't explain it at the time and it was just something that I wanted to pursue and get to know better and better.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: When you feel something like that in your life, obviously you want it to be in your life forever.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So I had that passion for a very long time definitely a decade at least and then it started to change with time.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: So at this point I can't say that I feel as passionate about photography as I used to, and I struggled with this for a long time, to be honest and I know that a lot of photographers have this issue as well, and maybe, matt, you felt this way as well just going through periods in your life where you don't necessarily feel as connected to photography as you would like to, and feeling ashamed of that, and so for me, the why initially was just a spark, just curiosity, and now the why is more so, just this desire to get to know photography deeper, and because I've taken so many photographs, I feel like I want to explore other areas of photography and the most important thing to me is to enjoy the process and to hopefully share photographs that inspire people to do something that they love as well.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: So, in your exploration of photography, what have you found?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: My exploration of photography, I found a lot of interesting things.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I think the best thing that I've discovered is the people.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I really love meeting new people and when I first started out as a 12 year old 12 year olds should not be on social media, just for the record.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Certainly not today.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: So I don't think it was a bad decision to join at that time, but now I would definitely not recommend it.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I met so many people just by sharing my life online.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: By being vulnerable as a child, you don't really have any boundaries, so you're just sure.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Whatever, I wasn't too open, but I definitely shared my day to day life and things that I was struggling with at the time, and I found that a lot of people could relate to me because maybe they were experiencing something similar in their lives, where they were also beginners in photography, and so that's one of the things that I've experienced that I really enjoyed.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Another thing is, when I struggled with the whole concept of not liking photography as much anymore, I realized that without photography I wouldn't have what I have right now, which is podcasting and this huge network of people that I know and all these other interests.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: So the way that I try to think about it is because of photography, and I have a bunch of other interests and a bunch of other passions and they are all intertwined.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: So there's no way that I can feel ashamed for not loving photography now, because right now I might not be as passionate about it, but because of it I have all these other things that I'm passionate about, so that has helped me kind of make peace with that.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: So do you practice photography much?
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Do you go out with a camera often, or is that kind of a backseat?
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: It's kind of taking a backseat, but I'm trying to get back into it and I'm trying to really understand why I don't want to take photographs as much anymore, and the main reason is obviously because I have a job.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I have all these other interests.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I also work in the photography industry not as a photographer, but podcasting, writing, managing the community so being exposed to photography all the time might not necessarily inspire me to take photographs in my free time.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's the main reason, though I think it's also like a big part of it for me has been social media and kind of grappling with the concept of comparison and thinking that my work is not necessarily as good as other people's work and worrying that what I put out there doesn't even matter.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Matt, have you ever experienced this yourself?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Just feeling like you're not as good as other people?
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I like the podcaste 10, podcaste 10, podcaste All every day.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: You know I haven't risen to the heights of a lot of photography out there in terms of the kind of orthodox definition of success successful photographer.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I have my own definitions and I'm going to ask you that later.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: But I have imposter syndrome daily and I understand especially what you mean with social media and again we'll talk more in depth about social media, I think, a bit later.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: But it has its pros and its cons and I think, as long as you understand what you're going to use that specific platform for, I think it's very difficult to kind of stray with that.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: But it's very easy, especially when I first started in the social media arena with putting my photos out there.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: That's a very vulnerable thing to do.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: It's very different to putting your personal stuff out there because it's something that anyone feels like they can critique and they should critique it, but it's something that you've made and that you want.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: That almost you want more approval for it than posting something about yourself.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: It's very easy to kind of fall foul to that.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But also you just have to open the likes of Instagram and the explore page.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: If you follow a load of photographers like I do.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: 90% of the images you'll see you will think are better than your own.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: If you understand that, it can be an inspiration.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: If you think about it like, okay, these people are inspiring me to get better, or these types of images don't matter to me because it's not my style or whatever you put your own narrative on it, I think that can help.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: But I totally understand, definitely empathize with you on that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: It's very, very easy to look across the picket fence and see a grass that's greener kind of thing.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: It makes sense.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I just want to say though, without food in the background, you cannot have imposter syndrome.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: It's incredible.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Pure luck, she made the photo and I got really lucky with the green, because that wasn't deliberate either.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: It wasn't deliberate.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: It was one of those moments.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I spotted it.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: She was playing with it and she just happened to have that one, so I asked her for a photo and it just worked out.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Anyway, back to you when you were 12, you've been doing this for 14 years.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: What was the point where you realized okay, I've got something here, or I'm good at this, or I want to take this a little bit more seriously?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It was when the people that I followed started to notice my work.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: When I initially started out, I was obsessed with a specific group of photographers who mainly specialize in self-portrait photography.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I was a shy kid in person, but online I was very open because I didn't feel awkward.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I felt like I could just talk with anyone that I wanted.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: It was nice that I had access to all these people.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: On DeviantArt, specifically, you could send messages to people privately.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Those photographers were not super famous, but they were popular.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: They were approachable, I'd say.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: I reached out to many of them and one of them was actually kind enough to mentor me for a while.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: You were saying about your group of photographers who started to notice your work.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, there was one photographer who mentored me and then she started to see progress and that was the most motivating thing for me because I admired her so much.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: You know what it's like when you like someone and they like your work.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: There's just that feeling.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: It's very rewarding.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I started to meet a lot of other people and they started to give compliments to me or just pay attention to me.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: That made me feel like I was getting somewhere with my work.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Was that mainly Facebook, or was that 500px?
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Or was that another platform?
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: So mainly DeviantArt back then, and then I moved on to Facebook.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: On Facebook, definitely back then it was very popular.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: It was what Instagram and TikTok are today maybe.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Speaking of 500px, you are a 500px ambassador, is that correct?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about that title, that experience, how you got it and the whole kind of 500px world.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: That's a really interesting story because I joined 500px like I would on each photography platform Flickr, everything else.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I was just curious about it.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I shared some photos there, but I wasn't getting much attention and I just didn't feel like I wanted to continue sharing my photos.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: One of my photographer friends going back to the whole network, mike Monheng he is a very experienced and amazing portrait photographer he asked or he didn't ask he featured me on 500px.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: He happened to be one of their editors at the time.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Because of that feature, I got a lot of attention very suddenly.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I just woke up one day.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I had a bunch of emails from 500px So-and-so liked your photo, so-and-so commented on your photo.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: That was a huge boost of motivation.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Obviously, social media validation is not my main source of inspiration.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: It's not real, but it's kind of real.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I kind of sound superficial now, but it was really nice to get attention from this huge photography platform.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I started posting more there and then they connected with me and asked me if I wanted to be one of their two follow photographers.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: So when someone signs up, there's a bunch of suggestions.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: They basically wanted me to be one of the suggestions.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Because of that, I got a ton of followers within a year so 200,000 in a year just based on these new signups.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And that did not affect Instagram, that didn't affect Facebook, so it was just solely exclusively on 500px and of course, I started to pay more attention to the platform because of that.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: But then I saw that they had an ambassador program and so I reached out to them and back then they had a different team and they rejected it and they said that it was because I didn't have enough Instagram followers.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And that was a really interesting realization.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And it's not that I have anything against the whole ambassador program concept, because I understand that the point is for both sides to help each other as much as possible, and so promotion is a big part of it, and I was a little bit discouraged but I understood.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: But then the team changed within six months, I think, and one of their members, stephanie.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: She reached out to me and she said well, we want to renew our ambassador program when we want more female photographers on the team.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Would you like to be our ambassador?
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And so, just because of this shift, I was able to join their program kind of unconventionally, and so that was interesting.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: It was nice to be invited, and the whole experience has been incredible as well, hosting contests and reaching out to different people.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an amazing community, I would say.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I really want to give other platforms like that my attention, but it's maybe you resonate with us and there's a question in here somewhere, but it's difficult to spread your wings as far as how many platforms are there?
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: There's the social media platforms and there's photography platforms and then there's community platforms and it's just a maze of.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: There are very, very few people that have big and engaged followings across three or four or five of the bigger platforms.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Right, it's very difficult to have that presence everywhere.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah, yeah, so Deviantart was a big thing and then it faded, let's say.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And then I moved on to Facebook and then Flickr.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: That was great for me.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I can't say I was super popular in Flickr, but we definitely have this familial feeling, like a family.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Everybody got along really well.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting as well.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Matt, can you relate to this?
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Every platform has a certain sort of atmosphere, even if it's the same people on that platform, so Instagram has a specific vibe to it.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I don't like that word, but I'm just going to use it.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Flickr has its own feeling.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: 500px has its own atmosphere as well, so that's been interesting to explore.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know I couldn't comment really on 500px because I just haven't put the time in, but what would you say is their vibe and their?
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: What does the atmosphere feel with 500px without stamping on their popularity, I guess?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Can you elaborate on that?
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's fine RT verified RT because my feed is filled with these high quality photographs and it might have something to do with the way that they work on the website.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Technically speaking, the images are displayed very largely and you can upload high quality images and it looks good.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's compressed, so to me it feels like going into a gallery or a museum and looking at different photographers' pictures.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: So what about the go-to of many photographers these days?
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Well, photographers these days, which is Instagram, right?
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Why are you not bothered about that?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: So Instagram, I was just a little backstory.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Facebook, I would say, was my most successful era.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I had a lot of attention.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I got a lot of attention on Facebook, not in terms of followers or friends, but just because of the amount of messages I received on a daily basis, people who really connected with me on a personal level.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: And then I didn't like how I felt being on social media every day, as a lot of people do, and I decided to take a break, and I didn't set a date, I just decided I would not post anything for a while on Facebook, and that lasted a year and I was at my peak on Facebook and I took that break.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: When I returned, my peak was long gone.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Nobody was that interested.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Facebook had changed by that time and I remember there was this one girl who had followed me at the time who later reached out to me on Instagram and she said well, do you regret not making good use of your popularity back then?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Because if you had, then maybe you would have been more popular and successful now.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: That was an interesting thing for me to think about, but I don't regret it because I prioritized my wellness first and to me this social media success isn't necessarily what I want to pursue, and I understand it's different because for me I'm a hobbyist, so if it's a full-time photographer it's a completely different situation.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I can't speak on behalf of someone like that, but definitely I can talk about my experiences as a hobbyist and someone who works in the photography industry, but not exclusively as a photographer, if that makes sense.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Which is almost ironic, because it was the attention you got on your first platform or two that kind of allowed you to explore photography a little bit more and to kind of then go back on it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know Facebook and Instagram are very different and I don't want to talk too much about it, but they're not good in many ways, especially for young people or people that are trying to just express themselves.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: I think it can be a very good tool as a business, like you mentioned, but it's interesting, certainly for you as a portrait photographer, trying to, I guess, get away from get away but kind of break down that shyness a little bit, and you were able to connect with people online and then kind of do a U-turn almost and just kind of steer away from that because you recognize that a deeper integration into those platforms is actually not that healthy, which it isn't.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing If you're on that more than 30 minutes a day.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: You're addicted and it's not very good for you, right?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: I think, in essence, the whole aspect of building communities in the photography world is really valuable, so I don't have anything bad to say about that.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: But certainly the opportunity to connect with people online often leads to addiction, as you said, often has these side effects.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: So I wouldn't blame photography, but definitely social media and how it's built.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of your viewers and watchers are familiar with the social dilemma and they know how social platforms work, so I mean it's inevitable part of the future of social media.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's a difficult conversation to have, but I know a lot of people struggle with it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it goes back to everything.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I think If you know what you're using it for and if you're purely using it for a business tool as part of your business strategy, then use it for that right.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: As long as you have a very clear target and clear usage of whatever that platform is, I don't see much for problem with it.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: But if you're just going to use it for pleasure as much as business or much as art, right, it can be very, very, very dangerous.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have friends that are just on it all the time, like hours and hours a day, whatever that's Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, whatever choose your social media platform but they can't be good and you can use as many excuses as you can think of, but it's just not good for you.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And, like you said, the social dilemma is just one documentary or one piece of evidence that kind of lays the proof to that.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, digress, Tell us some more exciting stuff.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Tell us about, kind of, what you're doing with photographycoursenet, what you're doing with your podcast.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Tell us I know you mentioned your podcast, but you co-founder of photographycoursenet.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: How are you involved with that and kind of what is it there for?
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm not the co-founder of the company, so it belongs to someone who purchased it a while ago and we have an amazing community of people.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: We have premium courses, some of which I've created as well.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: We have articles, so everything that you would need, essentially, if you want to become a better photographer.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: We have that.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: And then I started with the company three and a half years ago, so I joined as a writer initially, and then we moved on to podcasting pretty quickly because we were brainstorming and I just threw it out there, just podcasting.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't suggest myself as a host at all, I didn't even think I had the skills for that, but the CEO was kind enough to invite me to be the host and so I started out very nervously, as I mentioned earlier, and we've been growing from there.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: So podcast, and then we built a community online exclusively.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: We have a lot of interesting people in the group who are beginners and professionals, everyone in between.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: So it's a really interesting and diverse group and it's so fascinating to see their progress.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And one of my biggest projects for the community was the 52-week project, which I'm sure a lot of your viewers are familiar with as well.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: So essentially, you take a photo every single week for a year, and it's great for busy photographers because you don't need to dedicate time every single day, but you can still improve on a weekly basis, and so I started with that.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I started making videos for that every single week and I recently completed that, and so the members essentially just watch the videos and they submit their photos and they receive constructive criticism every week, and that's how it works.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Everyone's on a different part of the journey, so some people are on week one, some people are on week 26.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: And it's really interesting to see very motivating to connect with these photographers without an algorithm.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so do you have a module on that how to share your artwork?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Is there a course on what you do with the images?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: What do you guys advise?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: So for my black and white course, I created a mini course.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I think I briefly mentioned how to share your work, where at least I encourage the viewers to share their work wherever they can.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: But I try to be as open as possible.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I try not to recommend anything specific but because I work for photography, course on, of course I'm going to recommend the community.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I love doing the community.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: It is genuinely good.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I'll be very honest about that.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It's a very kind and open place and the people there really care about taking photographs and connecting with others, so I think it's just very cozy, to be honest.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: All levels, or mostly beginners, or All levels.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: We have people who are absolute beginners, who ask us the most basic questions that we're happy to answer, and then we also have people who will have a lot of experience.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: So it's nice that there's a mix, because you can find mentors, you can find people to mentor, so it's inspiring, I would say.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Speaking of inspiration, where do you draw?
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I mean even not in the photography world, just generally, whether it's your courses, your podcasts, photography or just home life.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Where do you draw inspiration from?
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: What is your kind of go-to person place, industry?
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Anything and everything I would say, and it's so random for me and I'm a very spontaneous person and I have a joke running joke in my family I'm a buffet girl, and what I mean by that is I grew up on a social network.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I grew up on a small island in Europe, so I grew up in Cyprus, and Cyprus is known for its incredible dishes and they love buffets and they have the.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Back then they had these really cheap 70 euro per person buffets.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: You could stay there for two hours and eat whatever you wanted, and there was a wide variety of dishes available, and so we were something.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Where did you live?
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Were you the Greek side or Turkish side?
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Greek side I know, so yeah.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: It's impressive that you know, impressive that most people don't.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I've been.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was fortunate enough to go there a couple of times.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: It's a fascinating island, just because of the mix of cultures, right.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible, I consider it my home, even though I'm not Greek, I'm not Cypriot, so it's kind of difficult to claim that I am.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: But having grown up there, I do feel that kind of longing for it because it's what I know, it's my childhood and so, yeah, we had these buffets.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: And then I realized growing up that I just love buffets in my life, like I like having a variety of things to pick from.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: As a photographer, as someone with different hobbies when it comes to anything and everything when it comes to travel, my day to day life, I like having variety, I don't like routine.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: So that's how I am.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So I draw inspiration everywhere.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Lately it's been a lot of cinematography, so I love watching Korean dramas, I love watching Turkish dramas and they do film really beautifully, so that gives me a lot of inspiration in terms of lighting and color.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Very interesting, very, very interesting.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I mean I draw a lot of inspiration from movies and cinematography as well, especially if they're shot very cinematically in terms of lighting, composition, just feel mood.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: The audio plays a big role in it.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Definitely I could watch good movies all day right, but Turkish dramas, it's interesting.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: There's a few Korean dramas I've watched, but I haven't watched any Turkish dramas.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: They're obviously pretty good.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: They're good.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, some people would say they're not good, maybe because they're so long and they usually have like 60 episodes per drama, 30, 50, 60, and then each episode is like two hours.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: So I was really into Turkish dramas for a while and then I started learning Korean and I got into Korean dramas because of my language exchange partners.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I mean Korean production, I mean a lot of incredible cinematography Squid Game, if you've seen that, just the story telling the acting.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I could watch them all day.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Honestly, yeah, I feel like I need to watch that again.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Actually, it's been quite a few years since I well, maybe three or four years since it.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Well, as soon as it came out, I guess I was doing the rounds, wasn't it?
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: It was very popular.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, what was the movie that won the Oscar?
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Basically, korean dramas have started the Paris Cinema Paris.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: So good, so so good.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: The writing in that is unbelievable.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, I can see that fascination.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: But maybe I'll have to check out some Turkish drums.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I kind of like the Scandic Noir murder.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: I miss it Also brilliantly.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: A lot of them brilliantly written, very kind of dark.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, maybe I'll have to check out some Turkish stuff.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, you may like, well maybe.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So your nickname is the buffet.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Buffet girl, yes, buffet girl.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: That's so funny.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: So what well I mean on that line?
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I guess what is your?
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe not so much inspiration, but what are your goals and your motivators from you know where you are now and what you're working towards.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Because of the podcast, I realized that I love meeting people more, so even that I love taking photographs not to say that I don't like taking photos anymore at all but certainly this new spark in my life has shown me that there's more to life than just taking photographs for me, and so meeting people, it expands my worldview.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Of course, I'm sure you can relate to this.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Getting to know different people is very similar to reading a book You're in somebody else's head for a bit and you get to live their life in some way, at least for a few minutes, and that's always been very exciting to me, especially given the fact that I used to be quite shy and quite closed off.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: And then the podcast helped me open up, helped me become a bit more extroverted, and so that's been incredible for me and that's something I really want to explore more in the future.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: So my podcasts that I just recently started that's one of my goals to help it grow or to grow it, and to interview people in different industries not necessarily photographers get to know things from them and hopefully start something new based on that information.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: So it's different.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's great, it's a lovely story that you it's kind of photography and podcasting have helped you.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I guess come out of your shell a little bit more.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would never have thought, guess that you were a shy girl years ago.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: But that's not kind of a nice story, a nice outcome to have had with these wonderful skills and tools, I guess.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been great.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for the podcasting opportunity and so grateful to PhotographyCoursenet for believing in someone who didn't have initially any podcasting experience.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's been so nice.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: It's so exciting and so inspiring as well, because I'm sure you can relate to this as well, and the viewers too.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: When you see someone's work online, you have a specific idea of what they're like.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: You have these preconceived notions, which is normal.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: We're all prejudice people, unfortunately.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: But then when you get to know someone on a deeper level, you realize they have all these different sides to them that you wouldn't have even expected, some of which you may relate to, some of which you may not be able to relate to, and so together, that's what makes that human unique and often makes me think about the way that I live my life or my interests, or, at the very least, it gives me an opportunity to maybe explore something new in my life based on what they've said.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: So I think we mentioned this when you were on my podcast very selfish.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: We have these selfish intentions as podcast hosts to get as much from our guest as possible, but I think that's also a nice aspect of it.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: It's the constant learning from one another.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a bit of both, isn't it?
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: It's a nice byproduct for us to get something from it other than the tangible things you're trying to achieve with the podcast, and grow it, maybe monetize it, etc.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: But it's also nice to have learned something right.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: That's why I started it.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I know that's one reason why you wanted a podcast just to learn from other people.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, photographers is great and the kind of visual art industry is wonderful because you meet such a diverse amount of people.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: But I never really thought of it like that either.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to meet.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I just wanted an excuse to sit down and chat to someone for a couple hours, because I can't stand small chat.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not very good at it.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Usually I'd find it gets in the way of me wanting to do something else, and it's either that these days, or people sit in the same room on their phones.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So I love being able to have this constructive space and I think I mean maybe you can resonate with this as well.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I mean you've had many, many more guests and episodes, but so far, most I think nearly all of my guests have also come away from it having shared that joy and shared that experience or having maybe learned something about themselves more than anything about me or someone else.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: They often figure out how they've been in that environment or they've said something they didn't know, that realized that they felt, or I think that's always a nice little window into someone's soul.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I guess I don't know how often you feel like that about the people that you have on.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I completely agree.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: It's always interesting because I come up with the individual questions for each guest usually, and when I do that, I find that they think a little bit differently about themselves or, at the very least, they're challenged to appreciate themselves more, because the questions are not meant to bring anyone down, they're meant to lift them up, and so when you look at your work from a very positive point of view, sort of through someone else's lens no pun intended then you realize okay, my work is not as bad as I think, or somebody else appreciates what I'm doing, and I really like this feeling.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: So, as you said, it's a very uplifting experience and it's all about lifting people up.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Right, we're on these podcasts not to bring each other down, and that's very important, I think, to do.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think that always has to be a fluffy, happy, smiley experience either.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: It can be.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: It can often be a serious conversation or a kind of impactful discussion on a topic that you might not agree on, and that's fine as well.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I think we as society, or we as humans, don't do that enough without anger or hate getting involved, and then it's.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: You know it's difficult to talk to someone, but you know, if we were to pick specific top topics as photographers or podcasters, then not everyone's going to agree with your opinion on that, which is which is good.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: The more we can disagree in a constructive manner, the better.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: A it fuels conversation, but it may change your mind, it may plant a little seed in someone else's mind, and that can only be good and uplifting.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Right To your point is there's a lot of positivity that can come from that, as much as maybe a bit of conflict or maybe a bit of uncomfortable air in the room.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: But I think that's that's one kind of thing I really want to try and dig a little, dig a little kind of deeper into.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: But most of the time most of the people I've had, or anyway I've done about you it's just they usually open my eyes and I go oh yeah, you're right, I definitely get it.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: And a good point, say that all the time.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: That means that you as the hosts are able to put them in a comfortable position and also make them think differently, because, as you said, it's kind of difficult to be in that position where you feel uncomfortable, you don't necessarily agree with the hosts, I'd say, and you are not sure how to respond to them, how to keep up a good conversation.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: You know a diplomatic conversation, but if you're able to kind of make them feel comfortable enough to open up in that way and to trust that you are not going to attack them for their opinion, that's just a reflection of your skills as a host.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: So very well done.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: This is a quick message just to say thanks to the sponsor of this episode and you might have heard us talking about it already it's our friends over at photographycoursenet.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Photographycoursenet is the perfect resource for every kind of photographer.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: The website offers premium courses, a thriving online community, educational articles and much more.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: If you want to learn something new about photography every day, then join their bestselling 365 project.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: And if you're a busy person who kind of invest a lot of time in photography, then maybe join their 52 week project to take it a little bit more steady.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Furthermore, the community aspect of photographycoursenet is perfect for photographers who want to improve their skills, make new friends and learn something new about photography every day.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Photography doesn't have to be a lonely activity In their community.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: You will find an international group of photographers who will support you and provide you with invaluable constructive criticism and I'm proud to say I'm one of these ambassadors, so don't hesitate to come on over and say hi to me.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: There are so many options and resources over there.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: It's hard to ignore this community and education driven space where you feel safe, encouraged and inspired.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: So if you're looking for daily inspiration and knowledge that will boost your photography skills and an online photography group that will push you to do better every day.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Photographycoursenet is for you.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: In your 170 episodes or so, what are the big lessons that you've learned?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Both, maybe the mistakes that you made, especially early on, and, more now, the advice you might be able to give to other people that are wanting to do the same thing, or even other photographers just starting to get into photography.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: So back when I first started, the most important thing I learned was not to focus so much on myself, because I think I was so focused on how I sound.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: As I said earlier, how do I look?
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Our podcast is not a video podcast, but I just wanted people to think positively of me, and that's not the point.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: The point is for the guest to talk about their experience and to feel comfortable and to hopefully share something educational and inspiring that will help the listener.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: So once I got over that, it was just a matter of time and practice.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: When I got over that, I was able to start focusing really on the questions that I was asking, how the guest felt, how what they were trying to say and trying to read between the lines as well, which I think is important to do as a host, and so the advice I would give to people who want to maybe do something similar is to just be open and to overcome the insecurity by simply ignoring it.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Whatever insecurities you have, whatever imposter syndrome you have, I think it's important to just not let it be the loudest voice in your head and overwhelm it with another loud voice, such as your passion or curiosity or just simply a good conversation with somebody who understands, because I think it's also important to surround yourself with the right people, and If you surround yourself with people who bring you down or who don't understand you in a constructive way, who cannot give you constructive feedback, you're just not going to be motivated to pursue anything.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: And so I think just that is the advice I would get to surround yourself with good people, but to also not Constantly listen to that negative voice in your head.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: We all have that negative voice in our heads, so it's wrong.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Very, very good advice.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: As an educator, then how do you?
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, let me ask you this If we take photography on its own, do you think there's such a thing as a good and bad photo?
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting question that's kind of controversial, be honest.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: I'll be very honest, because I'm not a professional photographer in the sense that I don't get paid for my work.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Sorry, that's my cat.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I've got it on my notes to ask you about your cats.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, sure, Thank you.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I think she'll appreciate that.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: But yeah, because I'm not a professional photographer, I Don't really worry too much about how other people's work is perceived or how my work is perceived on a professional level.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: And Doesn't mean I'm not insecure about my work not at all but in terms of how people perceive it, I don't worry about the quality.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: As an, I don't worry if people are gonna think, oh, this is fine art or not.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter to me.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: What matters to me and this took a while for me to understand is how I feel when I take care of this very selfish, yes, but it's always been a hobby and for me, hobbies are meant to maybe empower me or make me feel better, improve my wellness, things like that.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: And so if I take a photo that is technically perfect and people like it, but I don't connect with it emotionally, I don't care for it.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: That's my honest approach to that.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: So if I take a photo that maybe isn't technically perfect, if I took it into Intuitively and it's blurred or I don't know, there's just something imperfect about it, but I enjoy the shoot, that is a good filter in my eyes, and so that's how I think about it when it comes to other people's work as well.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: In the community, too, we have a lot of beginners and people who don't take, you know, technically perfect images, but I can sense that they love the shoot and they really enjoyed learning something new, and when I look at it through their eyes, I see that it's a good photograph.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: So that's my honest answer.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: I know that not everybody really agree with me, but I'm all about intuition when it comes to enjoying something, and Doesn't matter to me if something is, you know, perfect or not technically.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Interesting, very interesting answer.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: So your your definition essentially of a good.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: So, first of all, you do think there is such a thing as a good and bad photo.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Obviously it depends on the photographer again.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: So if the photographer thinks it's good and it's just a hobby for them, then all the power to them.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: It's a good photo.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Very interesting.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: So, in that frame of mind, then, the all the competitions and all the the 500 px's and the ambassadors and the curators I'm futile essentially not avoid.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, I have a different opinion on that.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: So if it's we're entering controversial territory here, if it's something that you do for yourself and I really want to emphasize that it's just a hobby, like it is for me, and I'm not trying to earn money from it for photography school, so I'm not trying to, you know we're on my network in a business way Then it's okay, like, whatever you think about your photo is or whatever you think about it, it's how you feel about it, how you feel about it, as long as you enjoy it.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: But if you are entering the territory of constructive criticism and contests, then there are other professionals involved and then I think it's very important to listen to their feedback and to adhere to their roles, because it's their territory essentially, it's not yours, and I think that there are different sides to it, different worlds.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, does that make sense?
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: And and you know I'm just being devil's advocate I agree with you and that's the beauty of the art form we have to remember.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: Photography, I Would say, can be an art form if it's done with artistic intent, right?
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Personally, I don't think the technical side of things should have much to do with a good photo or not.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: I think it has to have way more depth than that, right, and you know, monkey can learn how to do a technically good photo.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I have to maybe disagree with you on the first part in the the, by definition, there still has to be a difference between good and bad, whether that photographer has Enjoyed the shoot or not.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Right, you could, still, you could, yes, they like it.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's good.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: There's a difference between some something being objectively well, as objectively as art can get, but objectively good, and an individual subjectively liking it, and I think that often can be, can be blurred.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, I do agree with you.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I find it interesting, certainly from your side, as a as both, both a photographer and an educator who gives back and hopefully teaches a little bit, certainly with courses and do your videos and you provide, you are one that provides constructive criticism, like how you kind of walk that tightrope of a beginner who might have taken a very average photo in comparison to professionals, right, or semi-professional I mean, I don't know how you define professional either, that's a different.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: There's a different conversation.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: But how you go about translating to them that, because they're there, let's take a student on photography course on it, like they are there for a specific intention, they're there to learn and they're there for feedback in that learning process, right?
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: So surely then you have to be able to discern between an average image and a better one, right?
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Of course you know how do you?
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: It's so difficult, isn't it?
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Especially if you have that responsibility, a wonderful responsibility of of teaching and giving feedback.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: But it must be.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: You must have had times, have you, where you've gone?
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Well, how do I, how do I constructively critique this without saying it's bad?
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Is that, that's true, difficult for you sometimes?
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: It was difficult for me at the beginning, when the community was first created, because I wasn't too familiar with giving constructive criticism diplomatically.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: I've just never had to do it.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And so when we were in the middle of the and so when we first started, I was so scared of offending people that was my biggest fear.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I thought if I even if I start with the compliment and then I start to point out flaws in this image for example, you know, this is too blurred or the subject looks a bit Unflattering then they would leave the community.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I felt this huge responsibility.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: I wanted to represent the website well, but then the response was so positive and sometimes I would get people saying to me Can you please give me more feedback?
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: I need to improve, can you please be more honest in your feedback?
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: And that's when I realized, okay, people actually want this.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Nobody's going to get offended because they asked for this.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's different.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: Different when it's um, unsolicited advice, if you just yeah it's gallery.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, look this photo, I don't like it.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: You know, I think this subject looks weird or I think the colors are off.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Nobody appreciates that, even I don't.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: But when someone asks for constructive criticism, that's a completely different situation.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: So in those situations I've learned to just be honest, always start positively.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: There's always something nice to see in a photo, at least.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: At the very least, you appreciate the effort they put into the image.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: So you say I appreciate how much time it took to take this photo, I like this, this and this, but I don't think that you should have taken the photo this way, and this is what I would recommend.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: So always providing them with solutions, never just pointing something out.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: So that made my life easier, realizing that the people who are asking for the feedback, they, they, want that honesty.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: They're not going to get offended.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Very, very interesting.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's a difference between Thinking something and then, obviously, saying it without being asked.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's just, it's just rude, isn't it?
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: It's no one asked for your opinion.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Don't give it like, who are you to?
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: You know, just like you said, unsolicited the, the opinion of your, your own mind, but Interesting I, you know, I don't know the answer to.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I, going back to the original question, I'll ask you if there's Such a thing as a good and bad photo.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I still don't.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: I couldn't answer that.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think I could answer that.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I think Everyone would have a different answer, even the professionals, right?
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's got.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: If you look at a lot of the competition platforms, they all have their own criteria for what they want to see, right, in essence, it's their definition of what is a good photo and a bad photo.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: So, exactly, um, very, very interesting.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: What about podcasting?
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Do you?
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, do you find similar challenges when you're hosting a podcast in terms of, I don't know the, the flow of the conversation, or you know how to, how to keep the guest interested, or how to be honest without being offensive?
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Is that some another skill that you've kind of had to learn along the way.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Definitely, when I first started, my first few guests were just my friends.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: One of them was somebody somebody I grew up had Bronepless, so I was still so nervous Because I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable, didn't know how I sounded.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: My very first guest was one of my dear friends she I mean I was laughing throughout the whole episode because I was so nervous I'm not to redo it, because I was just, I don't know, just had got the giggles all of a sudden because I wasn't feeling very secure myself.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I kept apologizing for my actions.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: It's, I think it's always a learning process, and podcasting helped me realize that it's not necessarily an innate talent that you have.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: It might be, you know, you might have a talent for something, but it's not gonna grow right from the get-go.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: You have to invest time in.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: You have to be patient with it as well.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: If you're not patient with it, then you're gonna get frustrated and you're not gonna really make any progress.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: You might give up too quickly or too soon, and so for me, as I said earlier, took me a year to get over that fear, and then a new challenge presented itself the ability to make conversation flow well, which I know that you.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: You're very good at that, and it's something that I think a lot of podcast hosts Worry about, because you want the guests to never feel like there's, you can never want to create a room for awkward silence is basically right.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: That's the scariest thing.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Another thing for me is if a guest says that this is a question that they get asked a lot.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I hate when they say that because it means that I didn't put enough effort into the questions.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: So for me, it's.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: I really want to be a guest.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: So for me, it's.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: I really want them to feel like oh, this is a new experience for me.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, I've never thought about this this way, so that's a challenge for me as well.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: It's I'm constantly finding new challenges, and I think that's why I like podcasting so much, because Everyone is different and the guests are unpredictable, right?
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they're super shy, sometimes they're really confident, sometimes they give very short answers and then all the questions that I had they're done, so I have to come up with three questions.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: I Love that, though, like it's so challenging, but I love it because you never know what's going to happen on that particular day.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Well, we don't know what's going to happen for the rest of this podcast, but I'm sure it's going to be amazing.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Um, what do you have a favorite podcast?
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to put on the spot and you don't have to mention names, but there's got, there's got to be an episode where you've looked back on it.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was amazing.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: And, conversely, there must be an episode where you've you've looked back on more.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: That was Not good, that was difficult.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Don't mention any names, but you can maybe tell us the, the context, or the, the, the Kind of situation sure.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: So I'll preface this by saying that every guest has been loved.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: I'll be very honest, every guest.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: If you really get to know them, even if they're looking difficult to speak with at first, they're all lovely.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: However, the worst experience for me has been when Someone hasn't shown up.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Like well, someone doesn't show up, that's it Like I.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I feel, if they don't show up without an explanation, with an explanation if they don't have, if they don't reach out to me, there have been a couple of guests that reached out to us first and asked to be on the podcast.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: They didn't show up number one, number two, they didn't explain why they didn't show up, they just ghosted us.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: But they were, they were fine, nothing happened to them.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I see they were still posting.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: So that's been my worst experience.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: When someone, you make questions for someone and you make time for them.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: When they don't show up, yeah, and there's no explanation.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: When there's an explanation, no problem at all.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: But the best, I would say my favorite podcast episode Would be with a pilot who is a photographer as well, and he.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: What stood out to me the most was his humility.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: I reached out to him first because I really loved his work.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: The quality of his images is outstanding, takes really stunning landscape photos and with landscapes, I think.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Not being a landscape photographer myself, I think it's very difficult to Capture the essence and the soul of something that isn't a person.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: That's a huge challenge.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: I think he does that so well and he, despite all of his success, his intelligence, his sense of humor, he was very humble and he kept making fun of himself and I could sense that it was authentic.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: He wasn't just doing it for show, and that stood out to me the most, because I think it's very important to be proud of your work and to take pride in what you do, but if you have that humility, that's just going to make you more likeable and it's also going to give you the space to receive constructive criticism when necessary and to improve as a person.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: And yeah, for me personally, that was what stood out to me the most, just in terms of personality.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: I was so Impressed by that.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Not that other guests are proud, but he was especially humble.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: That's how it would feel.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I think those type of people stand out just generally right, and I always those types of people I come across are always successful in Whatever they're trying to do.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: And I don't mean successful in terms of they have all the money, they have all the Materials they have, they get the best photography jobs or whatever they just seen the happiest they they're.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: They're very kind of easygoing, but you know, they take their, their, their work, their passion extremely seriously and they they very kind of Good at what they do, because, well, one reason must be because of their humility, and that has to go a long way in every facet of life, right?
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Not just photography.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I mean, in my short time as podcast, I have to agree with you that the guests who we've had on that have been more humble, have been You're so enjoyable to be around.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: They're kind of infectious, aren't they?
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: They have this just yeah, it's just just joy about them and they show interest in you and other people and they're easy to, just easy to get on with.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Who has been your favorite guest so far?
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Actually, you know, when you're talking about the humility of a guest, I won't mention any names.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I had one guy on who's kind of a friend of mine.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't know him that well at the time, but knew him enough to just get a mate come on the podcast.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: It'd be great fun.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: We were in stitches.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: We just, you know, we didn't I don't think we had any beers or anything, we weren't drunk or we just sat here for like three hours just just laughing at everything it was.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: It was great.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: And he's he's kind of similar guy where he's just, you know, you give him credit, amazing artist.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: And he would just he would say thank you very much, because I don't like it when people go.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: I know it's not me, it's someone else, but they people who can easily accept, you know, credence and are able to deal with that.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: That's a form of humility.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: So thank you very much.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it because they know put a lot of work into that.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: But as soon as they kind of thank you for that, then it's just onto something oh yeah, well, we did this and I got lucky with this and you know I love this guy's work as well.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: I have a.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: You know I took a lot of inspiration from them and you know very, you know I didn't do it all myself, and so I think they, those types of artists, those are people just stand out and they'll always go a long way.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I believe in life.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that was definitely, definitely my favorite episode so far, I think just because I really loved so much.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: You know, just, I like it when people date themselves too seriously as well, so that helps.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: We've had a few guests on where it's been pretty dry and very, very serious and they take themselves very, very seriously.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, the conversation flowed okay, but so getting very kind of serious here, but it's all good.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I love, love having the variety as well.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: I don't want all and I'm sure you did the same Don't want to have the same, same type of guests all the time.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Right, you want to have that variety of people, so it makes it more interesting.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Exactly yeah, the more different.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go on.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, the more different, the better.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: I guess that's it yeah.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's the same in life, right?
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: The more different, the more different the people are, the more variety of people you can meet.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Then you're going to be a bit more rounded person, I guess.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: What about photographers?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I know you had your initial kind of group of idols, I guess when you were younger.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Is there anyone now that you still follow actively or you draw kind of a lot of inspiration from or you would say is your favorite photographer?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Right now it's Woody Lau, who is a very talented portrait photographer and his images are, you know, studio Ghibli films, so they're just the personification of Studio Ghibli films.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: There's just something magical in his work and it's very light and optimistic.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: And when you look at his work it's just joy.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: And so I think it's very difficult to express specific emotions through your work.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: Unless it's a very dramatic emotion, like if it's like depression or sadness, then you can use lighting to create that effect Not easily, but you know the technique that would be required for that.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to something like joy, sure you can use a lot of light, but how do you create that feeling?
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: How do you make sure that everybody looks at your work feels that way?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: And he just does that effortlessly.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: I think he has different subjects that he photographs in very bright blue environments you know bright blue skies, and it's just very possible to look at his work.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: It's just like watching a film, honestly.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: So his work really stands out to me.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: Would he allow LAU LAU?
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: yes, Not sure if I'm pronouncing his surname correctly, so apologies for that in advance, but I think it's allowed.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, I'll look him up.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: When you talk about technical stuff like lighting and, you know, talk to beginners a lot about trying to get emotion from people.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: I haven't talked about portraits specifically.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: What's Obviously, I haven't done your guys' courses on your site, but do you teach that much and, if so, what advice can you give to budding portrait photographers to go from a still image to kind of a three-dimensional emotional portrait?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: I have a self-portrait course, an indoor self-portrait course, on a budget, very niche, very specific course on the website that I started out with.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: That I was really passionate about because I think that shooting indoors without any kind of expensive equipment or lighting is possible as long as you have that passion and that curiosity.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: And so, in terms of lighting, your best friend is your window.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: If you're shooting indoors, it doesn't matter what kind of light there is outdoors, but if it's moody, it's sunny, you can experiment with different shadows.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: So if the light is harsh, I recommend experimenting with as many shadows as possible and creating those shadows with the help of any kind of patterns, basically lace, curtains, your own hair, hands.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: It's all very cliche.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: I think some people are afraid of doing that because others have done it so many times.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: But I think if you take photos of yourself or of someone else, it's another face and the image will still look different and you can add an element of your own that will make your work stand out.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Also depends on editing and everything else.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: But if the lighting is soft, then you can just take photographs with the subject's face to the side so that there are some shadows on the other side of their face and I think that will add depth.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: I think for me how I add depth to my portraits is with the help of shadows.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: I try to not use any kind of flat light, try not to face the window or the source of light directly.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I like to create shadows.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: It's like drawing right.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: When you draw you don't want to just draw without any shadows.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: If you add some highlights here, some shadows there, then the drawing will naturally pop right out of the paper, basically.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: So I think it's the same with photography.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I've always been very intuitive.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm not.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: I'm technical in the community because I have to be.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: And I'll be very honest.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: When it comes to aperture shutter speed, it took me, I think, seven years to really understand what it was.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: I never got into it.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: I'll be very honest.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: I never got into it.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: When I started out, my cameras didn't have manual mode or anything like that, so I wasn't familiar with the settings.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: But even when I did get a camera, that was better, I didn't care about that because I just wanted to take photos.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: So this might make me a bad photographer, but again, I'm all about as a hobby.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: It's all about enjoying the process.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: When I got into it professionally, like in the community.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's when I had to learn aperture.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: You have to when you write articles.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: You have to know what aperture means.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: You have to know what shutter speed is.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: So that's when I started doing research.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Took me a long time to master the whole aperture thing.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: What is this Like?
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: 1.8 means wide aperture, like I was very difficult for me to wrap my mind about that.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: But then, yeah, it's important, I think, also to understand manual mode.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: So don't do what I did, just go with it intuitively and understand right from the get go.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: If you do have a good camera and by good camera I mean the camera that has the settings for shutter speed and aperture and everything else Get to know what those basic settings are.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: Experiment with different settings and different kinds of lighting, even if you don't have professional equipment or lighting or what that means.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: So next year, window in front of your window, see what works for you, because everybody has their own style.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Some people do like that flat look and I think it looks really amazing in some people's portfolios.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: So it's really important to go with that.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's very important also to trust your intuition.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: So if you feel that a certain setting doesn't work for you even though it works for other photographers doesn't necessarily mean you need to also use that setting all the time.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: Try something different, break the rules if you want, and then also put a little bit of yourself into the photograph, and you can do that by taking risks or challenging yourself or leaving your comfort zone.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: So move your camera intentionally sometimes, or take a photograph if the lighting is really harsh and dramatic.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: It's not something that people usually do.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Try it, because it might help you develop your style.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: So I think having a balance between technical under technical knowledge and intuition those two together will help you create truly original photographs.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: The problem is you can't really learn intuition, I don't think.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: But I couldn't agree with you more.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: I think you can.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: The best, the only way you really find and I think what you're kind of talking about there is finding your style as a photographer.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: It's you know, if you're just going to stick to the rules all the time and do what other people do, you're just going to you know you're probably not going to be happy with a lot of the stuff you get.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Or if you are, you're just going to be another conventional photographer who kind of fits in with fits in with the rest.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you can.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Only I always say that to people as well learn, learn the basics first and then because I'm intuitive as well, I don't.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think some of it's you when you do it so often and you know the, the settings and the technical side of it.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: It's second nature anyway, but I don't really care.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: I don't give a shit about that at all.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I don't care really anything about.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: The main thing I usually care about is noise and not dragging the shutter too much, because my hands always shake and my cameras some of my cameras don't have been built stabilizers, so I always you know, I used to get the photos on my computer and then just be all blurry, which was, which is okay for some creative shots, but when I was doing like environmental portraits, like oh, I want a shot photo.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: So I think exactly what you said, kind of look, try and learn those basics, first learn what your camera can do and then only when you know the rules can you break them right.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: So figure out kind of the contemporary box and then shatter it.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Like you said, I think some of the best photos, some of the my most favorite portrait photos are of other peoples are all of those that have contrast, have really harsh lighting and, you know, really dramatic shadows and just a real complete kind of moody feel about it.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: I think that they just make amazing If you really want to add emotion, depth into photo, like like you said, like get some shadows in there, start playing with.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: There is no time of day.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: You can't shoot and try and do it all different times there and you'll get different results, and then you can kind of figure out where you fit in that right, where you're comfortable, what things you like about it.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: So I think it also just comes out of practice, right.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: The more you do, the more you'll get used to that.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: But interesting, what was your process like If I go?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I've seen a lot of your photos and for the audience, believe me, when Tyra knows what she's talking about, because her images are incredible, I promise I'm going to ask about your cat soon.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: But even your self portraits like they're awesome.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: What is your process like that If you I know you don't shoot as much anymore, but if you were to go out you know I'm going to have some intent today I'm going to go and shoot some self portraits.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: What was your process like?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: How do you go about doing it?
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: Crystal, thank you for the compliment.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: And second, for me it's the things that I rely on as a self portrait photographer, or a remote and a tripod, those are the most important tools you can have, obviously in addition to camera equipment.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: If you like, I did in the past use a 10 second timer.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: You're going to run back and forth Good exercise, of course, but frustrating if you're short on time or if you just don't want to do that.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: You don't have to run back and forth.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: There are so many cameras nowadays that have a Wi-Fi so you can download a camera connect app I've used yeah, it's called Camel Connect.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: For me it depends on your type of camera you're using, but you can connect that and see how you look on the screen.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Personally, I don't like that because it takes something away from the shoot for me, seeing how I look.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: I like the unpredictability of a self portrait shoot.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: It's a very different dynamic because it's just me with the camera and I don't want to see.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I don't have control over every process.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: I want to leave a little bit to just.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: If it's in focus, it's in focus.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: If it's not in focus, okay, let's try again.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: So I like that part of it.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: I like the challenge and so the process is simple.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: So first is finding some kind of inspiration, whether it's a quote.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of photographers find inspiration in quotes or a book or a movie or one of my surroundings.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: If I see a certain kind of light that I like, I'll just gravitate towards that naturally.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: And then I place my tripod and make sure to set the timer and then press shutter on the remote and it takes photo and I go back and forth.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: So the first 20, 30, 50 photos don't look good because I need to manually make adjustments if the light keeps changing.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: That's a completely different situation because you have to continuously go back and forth and change things.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: I will occasionally approach the camera and see how it looks, especially at the first few stages, because I want to make sure that the lighting is good, everything looks good.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: So I'll make adjustments to the shutter speed, aperture.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: I usually keep it quite wide, so I like using an aperture of 1.2, 1.8.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: I like the blur.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: I've always loved bokeh, so it's really important for me to have a wide aperture, but in some cases I will use a more narrow one.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: So that's the process.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: I don't feel comfortable in front of the camera all the time and sometimes I don't like the way that I look.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: I think that's something people have to understand if they're new to self-portrait photography.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: You're never going to reach that level of confidence where you're going to think, oh, this photo was good, oh, I look amazing, unless you're super confident I don't think many people are like that anyway but in most cases you're going to think I really look horrible here.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: Why do I look like this?
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: I took the time to make myself look good.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Why do I look decent and it's just normal.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: Human faces were not completely symmetrical and I think, especially in self-portrait photography, it's important to not develop body dysmorphia by looking at yourself from a triangle at the time, because it's very possible to develop that, especially when you start comparing yourself to other self-portrait photographers and you see, oh, I look a little bit crooked here.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: This person has a more symmetrical face than me, so it's important to view it as an artistic process.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: And another aspect to it, I think, for me at least, is to separate myself from the photograph as well, because I'm taking a photo of myself.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: It does feel very personal because it's me, but at the same time it's not really me.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: It's just a one thousandth of a second of me, in makeup, in the specific outfit, in the specific costume, in this lighting.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: I don't look like that all the time.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted to get into acting when I was younger.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Even though I was shy, I really loved theater classes.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: I loved acting classes in school, and so being in the spotlight always fascinated me, because I think it's interesting to be someone else in front of the camera, to be someone else in front of an audience, to portray someone who is not yourself.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: So when I take photos I separate myself from myself, which that makes sense.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily someone else, but I'm trying to depict a certain emotion, not very personal, so that, I think, might help people who feel insecure in front of the camera.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: It's not really you, it's a second of you.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: If anyone knows the camera is on them, it's very, very unlikely that that's the real them.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: There's only kind of true documentary photography where you kind of capture, and even then it's still a moment right, like you said, still however many thousands of a second.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: So what about your editing process?
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Is there much that goes into that?
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: Is that something you enjoy?
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: I really like it.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I think color correction is even more fascinating to me than actually taking photos, because that's where the magic happens, where you can make a photo look cinematic or you can change the mood in the picture possible.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: And so I use Lightroom, even though it's slow my computer now.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: It's a bit frustrating, but I love Lightroom, I love the presets, I love experimenting with different color styles.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: And then I go over to Photoshop once I've color corrected and I retouch.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: I don't retouch, I don't know frequency separation that well, it's too time consuming for me.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: So I will just remove a few pimples here or there and that's it kind of under eye circles, if I'm tired and if there's someone in the background I will move them, things like that.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: Have you used a Voto before you heard of a Voto?
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: No what is that Photo is a retouching software, and I say that with a bit of trepidation because I used to shoot more studio portraits than I do now.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: I used to do either pay to retouch if I didn't have time or did what you do, just spot remove, spot, heal, do small touches, touching up in Photoshop but tried a few softwares that were just not refined enough.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: They would overdo it, the subject would look porcelain, it would just be really fake.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: And then I got put onto this software called AVOTO and it's basically AI powered and it does an amazing job and you can really adjust the level of retouching.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: I mean you can retouch loads of things like hair I mean I just use it for skin but backgrounds, brightness of the eyes, a lot of things in the same software.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: And one thing I like about it it looks so natural, it's just and you can do it so subtly and it takes, you know, just a click of a button and I think it's like 30 bucks or something for the software just one off fee, I think, if I remember rightly.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: So I'd really recommend people who, you know, don't want to be at their computer for hours on end just retouching or learning these techniques, to maybe look at that Because it does a really good job and you just wouldn't be able to tell that it's essentially an AI powered software.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of changed my life with, because I used to spend so long just retouching stuff.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Speaking of AI, what is your kind of overall feeling of the way AI is going in photography world and how it might impact maybe less so the podcasting world, but certainly the people that you would interview on the photography podcast?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Do you know much about or have you kind of dived into the rabbit hole of AI and how it might affect photography?
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: I hear a lot from my guests who educate me, thankfully, again selfish.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: What are they saying?
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: I mean it's very interesting because I see two sides.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: I thought there would be a very specific opinion on it, but there are two sides.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: So the first side is very negative.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: So some guests are extremely against it.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: But they say that it's inevitable and that in the future, photography will no longer be something that exists as it does now and that AI will replace a lot of genres like fashion photography, product photography, so on and so forth.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: But then the other side says that sure, it will take over to a certain degree, but it will never replace the soul of photography.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: It will never be something that will.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: And I think that's something you've mentioned as well yourself on my podcast, where, if you take a photo, there's a way to do.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: If there could be a way to differentiate between an AI photo and human photo, that would be great and that's something that would potentially help people separate the two and not get too confused and avoid issues with authenticity.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: I myself haven't done much research on it.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: Again, I'm a hobbyist.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: Everyone's going to say I'm lazy, but I think there are still so many people who enjoy photography who will find creative ways to overcome this Maybe overcomes not the right word to use.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: I think AI can be used as a tool, as you mentioned yourself AI editing, ai writing even though I'm not AI writing because it's so much too much to put a plug in a diamond to but it can be a tool, it can be something that you use wisely to move forward, and that's as much as I can contribute to the conversation, because I'm not knowledgeable enough here.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone is.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: To be honest, it's such an opaque world right now and it's moving faster than we can even try and keep up with it.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: Certainly, the AI in photography yes, take Lightroom and Photoshop they're just talking about.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: They're using Update every month at this rate and they're hugely reliant on AI and always have been.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: People seem to forget that We've had AI around for many, many years.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: It's just in the last 12 months.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: It's become more open, essentially.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: So obviously, you had larger impact with some of the language models that have come out.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Certainly, with the likes of mid-journey and image generation platforms.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, I don't know any more about that than you do.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: Really, anyone who professes they do is maybe thinking too much of themselves or maybe, I don't know doesn't know the real truth, but we don't none of us know how this is going to impact photographers and photographers.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I agree with those that say there are certainly some parts of photography that are going to be, you know, obliterated, for one of a better word, because it's just, it's easy to see that certainly, the bigger kind of commercial needs for certain types of photo won't necessarily come from humans, because it costs more and takes longer.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, but I think I also agree with those that say the process driven photography is always going to be in demand and that kind of need for human soul and that real realness, the authenticity behind photos that will never disappear.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: It's just how we, I guess, how we govern that and how we regulate it and, like we talked about before, how photographers can retain ownership over certain things without being stolen or plagiarized, which has always been an issue.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: But it's going to be an even bigger issue, bigger issue in the future.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting, interesting.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think it has to be good or bad.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: I think, we as people have to immediately label something oh no, that's bad.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I think it's good.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe neither.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: It's just a new thing that we have to deal with.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's going to be an interesting watch, but keep doing what you're doing.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: I think the best will always rise to the top, whether they're photographers or image prompt engineers, or whatever you want to call them.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Tell me about.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: You know, we'll start wrapping up in a minute.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: There's a few kind of deeper questions that I'm going to ask you, and one from my previous guest which we'll get to in a minute, but I've been threatening to ask this question since the beginning.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: But tell me about your cats, because we see them in your photos and I love the photos of your cats.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: I'm an out big animal lover.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: We have three cats ourselves, so you know I've never been held to get a good photo of any of them.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: So tell me how you do it.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: What's the secret?
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: The secret is bribing.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: There's nothing more to it.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: She has a special treat that she loves, and I dangle it in front of her with one hand while taking a photo with the other hand.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: And then I'm like me, because her name is me, me, me, me, look, look, look.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: Good girl, you have to make that sound so it catches her attention.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: Bring the treat close enough to the lens without covering it, so that it makes it seem like she's looking straight into the lens, and then take as many photos as possible, hoping for the best.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: And yes, your hand does shake because you're trying so hard, so you use a fast shutter speed.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: That's the process.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: There's nothing more to it.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: Do you set up the position and like try and get it in the right light?
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course you have to manipulate the situation.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she doesn't mind where she's going to be given the treat, so I just I place her somewhere and then I make sure to get her attention and also shoot from different angles as well, and it helps a lot that she's naturally photogenic.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: I think animals in general they're just beautiful, doesn't matter the animal.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: You know that cats especially are very elegant, especially if it's darker, and then their eyes are so Disney like.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: It's just a beautiful combination, perfect.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: Every time I post a photo of her it's an easy catch because people, a lot of people like it.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: Photos always get popular, especially on Flickr.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: The algorithm loves my cat, not me, my cat.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: When I post a photo of myself and like 60 likes only my cat, I think it's 100, 1000, 12,000.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: So she's great.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: I can't comprehend.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: She's gorgeous.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Um, just want to move on to.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have a question here from Giovanna, who is one of my last guests and you know she wrote a question.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: I think we've kind of answered anyway, but I'm going to ask it.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: And her question was what brings you joy?
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: What brings me joy is do you mean in photography or just in general?
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: There is no, there's no addendum to this question, just that's it.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: What brings?
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: me joy is spending time with my family.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: To be fair, I, when I spend time with my family, when I get to know people, when I make new friends and I feel that strong connection, that's what brings me joy.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: And also, feeling connected to myself is important to me, and being connected spiritually is very important to me because I'm a Christian, I believe in God.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: So when I feel that I'm kind of doing something that fulfills my purpose as a human being, doesn't necessarily focus on my selfish intentions but does something for other people, that's when I feel like I'm in the right direction, going in the right direction.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: So it's a great question.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: What is your purpose?
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: My purpose is this is something that I think about a lot and I always come to the same conclusion is I want God's life to shine through me in whatever shape or form that might be, whether it's in photography, in another industry.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: I think that's why I'm so open to not to different things.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: That's why I try not to make a photographer my identity, to be wearing specific things my identity, because you know there are so many opportunities in life.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: You might be a photographer one day, podcast you're the next, might be both and you might be able to maybe help someone by being open minded in that way.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: That's definitely what I think the light certainly shines through with your work.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: It's wonderful stuff.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: It's been an enlightening conversation to have with you, so thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I can and you know we look forward to the next chat.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: It was such an honor to be on the podcast.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: You're a very comfortable post to speak with and I really appreciate what you're doing with the podcast.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: Well, thanks so much and best of luck with the Great Big Photography World podcast, which is just doing brilliantly, and it's for those who are watching this and don't know about it or haven't listened to it.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: I highly encourage you to A go and listen to that podcast and in many episodes you can and listen to Tyre's beautiful voice and obviously check out Tyre's website and Flickr account.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: Flickr account where would be the most kind of the best platform that you would want people to go and visit?
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Would it be your Flickr?
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: It would be my website.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: I have a website.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: I'll send you a link later, but I just I'll put all links up.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, awesome.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: Well, on that note also, best of luck with the new podcast.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: I look forward to listening to that and thank you once again for joining us.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: Hopefully we meet next time in person, but until then, take care and best of luck, thank you.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.