Latest / Skin Anarchy / Steffanie Attenberg, Chief Brand Officer NewBeauty / SANDOW

Transcript

Steffanie Attenberg, Chief Brand Officer NewBeauty / SANDOW · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and today I have an amazing guest once again.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm super excited to introduce you guys to Stephanie Attenberg, who is the chief brand officer at New Beauty.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, welcome to the show, Stephanie.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so, so excited.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I am too.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, thank you for having me.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's such an honor.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you made the time.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to start off um by really talking about your career because I know you mentioned it's very, you know, it's very different than the guests I usually have on in terms of the editorial side.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: So can you get like give us like a you know, a tour through your past?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I have always loved magazines, like from when I was a kid.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think highlights was my first magazine, if if I'm not dating myself.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I love highlights.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kidding.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: My mom was always into magazines and had all the fashion magazines, and I just grew up loving print.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And first sort of I graduated college and I wasn't really certain what I was going to be doing.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Arizona State and I had a communication degree, and I was sort of finding my way like most people do when they graduate.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I actually got a second degree in elementary education and taught for a year, and quickly realized that uh that was not the career path for me.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have a child now, so I wouldn't say that I'm not a kid person, but I'm definitely not uh teacher material.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So kudos to everyone who is.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I don't think you can do it either.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And my brother at the time was a few years older, had been in media for several years, and he had introduced me to Conde to um American City Business Journals, where he worked.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in Phoenix, and he was like, You should go talk to the publisher there.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: You love media, like see if she has anything.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, this was so long ago, you could just call and get someone on the phone, you know, they didn't even have email.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I called her up and I went in for an interview, and um, it was a kind of like a series of of craziness to get the interview to even happen.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I had been in a car accident and broke my fingers.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I had this crazy cast on.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I lived by myself, and so I couldn't get dressed, I couldn't do buttons or zippers.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a friend come over.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a whole thing.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I showed up basically in a sundress because it was the only thing that I could put on.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was ridiculous.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I um I went in for this interview.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when I walked up to the front desk, I kind of apologized and I said, you know, could I please go freshen up?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm here to meet, you know, and I gave the woman's name and the whole thing.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, absolutely.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I hope she'll let me explain my outfit.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I had this whole conversation with the receptionist.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out that the receptionist was the publisher and was the woman that I was meeting with.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, wow, what a twist! She was amazing.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um I knew right away that I could learn from her, and I got very lucky because she was the best mentor I've had in my entire career.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was there for six years and I started on the sales side.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was American City Business Journals, the Phoenix Business Journal.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had never done, you know, true sales before.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she was explaining to me how the business works.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And all she kept saying it was because we're trusted and then because we are the most respected in Phoenix, and people will take your meetings and you just need to read the paper.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: It came out once a week and really understand the content.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And great content opens doors.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So me on the sales side, understanding the importance of content really, I think was a unique way to get trained.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I credit everything that's happened to me since to Joelle Hadley, who at the time was the publisher of the Phoenix Business Journal.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I love that.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love seeing like women who have uh women mentors, you know, it's just such a beautiful thing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, keep going.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So she was amazing.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I started off in um, they called it classified at the time.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's when the internet was just becoming a thing, and we sold these business card listings in the paper, and you know, it was like a six-month agreement or a year agreement, and business kept growing, and I just kept saying, like, I want to do more.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And can I please listen in?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to understand how the magazine is or the newspaper, excuse me, is put together.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does the content come to be and how do the editors get these meetings?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And she said that no other person on the business side had ever asked to really be on the edit side.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: So she let me attend.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had to promise to be quiet and sit in the back, but let me attend some of the editorial meetings to really understand how the paper was put together and you know the questions that the editors asked and how they decided what was and wasn't worthy of being in the paper.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this like aha moment of I really believe that the reason the not only I personally was very successful, but the company and the brand were successful was because the quality was so good.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So always being interested in the edit process, but being kind of the type of person who loves sales, it was a really great opportunity.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: I moved up the ranks, I was promoted a few times within my six years, and then I moved out to California and for Time Inc., also still on the business side.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was there and I worked for a division called Media Networks.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what I found was that was true sales.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I had no connection to the editors.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I it was multiple products.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we would sell sort of a bundle.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you were looking for a business audience, you could buy two or three business publications or a women's lifestyle network.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we bundle it.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was really interesting.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we served, I did well, but I didn't have that same kind of fire that I had when I was connected to the brand.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I stayed there uh for about five years and then decided that I wanted to relocate to Florida.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked with a phenomenal headhunter who introduced me to Adam Sandau, the CEO and founder of Sandau.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And because I had so much regional experience with national publications, I was brought in to oversee the regional business of New Beauty.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was really unique because it's a combination of content and sales.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, the New Beauty doctors have to meet very strict requirements to even be whether it's quoted in editorial or to profile.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole time I was with New Beauty, I've been here, I'm on my 17th year.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I did take a brief sabbatical in 18 and 19, but um, I've been here for a long time.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I had an amazing editor-in-chief when I was here, Yolanda, who got Yolanda Yo, and we worked really closely together.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I understood the DNA of the brand and what made New Beauty different, I instantly had that it's all about the content.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And with great content, business follows.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always believed that if you have a true point of view and you know who you're speaking to and you know who your audience is, and you have an editorial mission that you stick to, the brand will succeed.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you that know our brand and have seen since our redesign in the last year or so, the the book is phenomenal, and the edit is just in my opinion, it's unparalleled in the industry.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, New Beauty is really up there.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have so much respect for this publication and so much respect for the immense amount of good work that you've put in because it just shines, you know, it really shines in the publication world.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, so yeah, and and and I love that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you've come from this, like, you know, you really kind of came from the beginning, you know, you've seen everything from the beginning.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a unique perspective to have.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel very, very fortunate.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like other publishers, there's been challenges along the road.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, New Beauty's always been kind of known for doing things differently.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're a little bit non-traditional, and as an independent publisher, we have some freedom and some flexibility to try things.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we've always been, you know, innovative, both in the content.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: We were really early on in talking about plastic surgery.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we took a very strong point of view.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you are going to get surgery, for us, we don't promote, do it or don't do it.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's about educating the consumer to find the right provider, should that be your choice?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like facts, it's fact-based reporting, yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what makes our team, I think, so incredibly special.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: All of our editors are 100% focused on beauty.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: They are immersed in the market, they're entrenched, I should say.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we have a very different model.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: We've always had an editorial advisory board.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And while we have had editors in chief, and we have had, you know, those traditional roles in the last few years, we've kind of changed the way we do things.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And rather than having that traditional role, we have a team.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've got an amazing beauty director and our features editor and our digital team, and we really all work together, and we've curated this brain trust of 100 experts.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So cosmetic chemists and makeup artists and celebrity hairstylists, nutritionists, plastic surgeons, dermatologists, and our editors have these tentacles almost where they've curated who these 100 people are.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So they help us, you know, with ideas and with sourcing.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's a really interesting way to put together a book.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have experts that vet every piece of content.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about the content.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's so, you know, I really love that because I think, you know, if you have a good product and with you know, publishing, that is the content.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a good content, it makes sense why people are drawn to that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I I want to ask you how you what the process is when you vet like, you know, experts like dermatologists and chemists.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you go by, you know, what school they went to, or do you like look at experience?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the you know things you really look for in your in those schools?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's an excellent question.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um we have really strict guidelines that start with their education.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not where they went to school, but it's what are they board certified as?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we start with ABMS, which is the American Board of Medical Specialties, and we only allow physicians that are board certified and practicing within scope, which means if you're board certified, you can be a board-certified surgeon or a board-certified internal medicine doctor or physician and still offer a mommy makeover, a tummy tuck, all the things you can do.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Any doctor can basically offer any surgery, but it doesn't mean they're the right choice.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, in order to feel comfortable about making a recommendation to a surgeon, they need to be a board-certified plastic surgeon.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we first look at their overarching board certification, and then there are societies that are specialties within each organization.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we look to make sure that the physician is a member of the proper society.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So whether that's the American Academy of Dermatology or ASDS, you know, there's various the American Society for Dermatological Surgeons.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Different, you know, the aesthetic society when it comes to plastic surgery or ASPS.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there's kind of four core categories for us, and then really, really also limit and restrict what the physicians can talk about.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're board certified as an oculospecialist and you're an oculo doctor, we really have you focus on your eyes.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you're yeah, like you're not making him quote something about, you know, something else, like skin on your toe or something.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, or a tummy puff, or something that would just be so far out of um, you know, their specialty.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we have a top doctor steel that we really encourage people to look for.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we also cover cosmetic dentistry, which is a really important category.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so cool.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just there's things that we really tell people to avoid.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there's certain terms like cosmetic surgeon, there's no board for cosmetic surgery.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're either there's not, there's not, and that's the thing.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny you mentioned that because I think for everyone listening out there, if you're not familiar with the terms, like when you're board certified as a as a doctor in any specialty, that's the hardest exam you'll take in your training.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, like dermatologists and plastic surgeons, when they take those exams, that's them saying, I am a specialist after my training in this specific field.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to clarify.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I should have said that you're right.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: When you think about plastic surgery versus any other category, it's like not only do they go to medical school, they do a residency and often in general surgery, but then they do an additional two to three years of a plastic surgery training residency.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So they're they're not just kind of going through the program and then saying, okay, I'm ready to do this.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much that goes in, um, you know, everything, whether it's an oculoplastic surgeon or a facial plastic surgeon, you know, they specialize in the topical and above, they really are so much more qualified because of the training, you know, and we believe strongly at our brand, and we have since day one, that choosing the right person to perform a procedure is not only critical to you know ensure the safest outcome, but you have to feel comfortable to ask questions and to know what questions to ask.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we pre-screen every single physician that we profile and quote, and then we use our brain trust to vet every ad, every article, and every profile that runs in New Beauty.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is so powerful, you know, honestly, Stephanie, because when I think of things like, for example, how social media plays into like body positivity or you know, how it plays into the decisions women make about their bodies and what they want done, that is a huge, you know, factor for a lot of women.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that you're really relaying true information, just facts, that is the best service you can provide your consumers.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's no, there's no space in medicine for opinions, you know, it has to be facts.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you guys are so fact focused.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: We really, you know, we've turned away a lot of doctors, we've turned away a lot of brands because, you know, we take science very seriously.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's going to make a claim in New Beauty, we have to see the white papers to back it up.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's very rooted.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to make sure we're scientifically accurate, we're ethically balanced.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Our job, you know, it's more than just writing about beauty, it's reporting on ingredients and technology.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And our job is to give our audience the information so they can then make the decision that's best for them.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one question I have, Stephanie, because I'm just curious overall, you know, not just about new beauty, but um beauty editorial, is that when it comes to like cutting edge research, for example, in the field of dermatology, and you know, I'm just giving an example, like maybe there's a brand new skincare product coming out that, you know, your editors are really interested in, they believe in the brand, but a lot of the research is cutting edge, and maybe some papers are just now coming out.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, how does that work in terms of incorporating actual medical research that is peer in peer-reviewed journals into beauty editorial?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: You see what I'm trying to say?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like medical editorial work and then this side of journalism.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you ever like have problems like meshing the two?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you like, you know, how does that work for you?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a tough, complicated, and great question.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't speak to how other brands would handle that topic.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: For us, because we're so rooted and we're so connected in the medical space, we often get access to clinicals and research and data from brands and societies before they're made public.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have a lot of really tight NDAs in place with some of the key industry leaders.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have a great team of editors that really are able to kind of sift through what's marketing hype and what's real.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if we don't have clinicals to back something up or a brand can't provide, we won't include any of that information in anything that we cover because we really are reporting on the product and the science.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: However, you know, if something's happening in the industry that, you know, is important to cover, you know, we might say, you know, clinicals coming soon, but we will never make a claim.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that your like traditional training and like newspaper publication is like shining in in beauty editorial.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love that because I feel like you know, journalism is something that you can't compromise with.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like it takes a mind like this to be able to bring that forward in no matter where you're applying it.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm trying to say?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no matter what you're writing about, it has to be this like, you know, I compare it to like for us scientists, it's like the scientific method.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's a methodology to true journalism, and I and I really want to, you know, give you kudos for really like keeping that alive, you know, in this world.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really do.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it, and it's interesting because we always joke around, you know, internally, like we'll say we're so busy, and you know, my husband's like, What are you doing?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Playing with lipstick.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, no, we're really working, like it's yeah, it's very serious.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to combine.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's products you don't want to combine, or you don't want to use things that are, you know, gonna negatively impact what you're doing in the morning by doing something, you know, crazy at night.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of education that's involved in making these decisions.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we at New Beauty love a good critical study.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're such beauty geeks.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I can't say enough great things about the editorial team.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: They are so knowledgeable and they are so dedicated not only to you know new beauty, but to the industry.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like they really, really care.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think having a team that's a hundred percent focused rather than you know, trying to write a little bit about travel and a little bit about fashion and a little bit about recipes, you know, it really is nice when they eat, sleep, and breathe beauty.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's well, I love that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very important to have a dedicated team, you know, no matter what you're doing, like it has to be a group of people that believe in what you're doing.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if and and I think that really, you know, that stems a lot from the lead leadership, you know, that's where it really shows if your team is really on board with your mission and your vision for where you want to go with this brand.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I love that.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually want to ask you um questions about like some of the bigger decisions that you have to make.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, you know, everyone talks about how um in the magazine world it's a lot of it's very female dominated, which I mean, in my opinion, that makes sense, you know what I mean?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: But like also like just in terms of diversity, you know, I've heard people say that a lot of like black editors like they get like bombarded with a lot of um stories and stuff.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you manage that?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like those kind of workloads that are maybe more specific to a certain ethnicity or a culture or background?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you like how does that work?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no real rule.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, diversity and inclusivity are incredibly important, not only in the beauty industry, but of course at UPD.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things that speaks to our point of view, and we actually have a whole section that's gonna be coming out in the summer issue.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny that you brought that up.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, on exactly that.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like the whole section is gonna be all about beauty redefined and how you can't, there's no exclusion.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's about inclusivity.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I mentioned earlier, you know, we have our brain trust.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I'm so incredibly proud of is the phenomenal diversity on the brain trust, not only you know, male to female, but it's it's everything.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not only by category and specialty.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's just for us, it's always been important.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, with everything that's happening, it's more so.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: We try to always look through the lens of what does our reader expect from us.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, it's about amazing products, regardless of you know, who makes them and where they come from.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the technology and the science and the key ingredients and things like that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: But we're very, very open and interested in expanding even further, you know.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's it's really, I think there's so many great things happening in the industry around this topic that I love to see what everyone else is doing as well.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, we're partnering with some amazing leaders in the space to really even bring this more to the forefront in July.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe you want to after that comes out, yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, honestly, the thing is like I'm I'm very curious because I think, you know, when it comes to inclusivity and diversity, like it's either like you do it or you don't.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it, you know, the way you describe it, I love it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's keeping it fact-based again.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've always said, you know, just in like conversation with people, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the most inclusive we can ever be is the closer we get to science because science isn't differentiated.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's no color or you know, gender, like it's facts are facts.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if we stick to the facts, these conversations will get easier, you know what I mean?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And though yeah, I agree, I agree a hundred percent.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I give kudos to a lot of people in industry that are really, I think, doing the right thing.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's exciting to see, you know, there's so much going on, not only when it comes to diversity and inclusivity, but the category, there's just a lot to talk about.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you focus on any one thing too much, you lose sight of the bigger picture.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, the bigger picture is staying true to the mission of the brand.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And our editorial mission is to empower women to make better, safer beauty decisions.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and that's what I learned early on.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you stay true to your mission, things should fall into place.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I you know, I want to ask you though, uh Stephanie, if there's anything like, you know, anything that you find to be very, very difficult about your role um, you know, as a in what you do, like it what is the biggest hurdle, you know, like for you on a day to day basis?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have to say when we switched like everybody else to, you know, modify.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The way that we worked together, you know, not being in the office and being home based.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was really, I don't want to say really concerned, but if you would have asked me before this, can this book, can this brand be put together with you know 40 people in 40 different locations?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would say absolutely not.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's impossible.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, becoming as independent as each person on our team has has actually, in my opinion, made our brand better.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's less time for distraction and less time for things that aren't really, you know, moving the brand forward.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think we pay much better attention to each other because our meetings are more structured because we're on Zoom, we're all together.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, it was really getting used to our team.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of what happens is you ideate, you know, products come in and it's like, oh, did you get this?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: How does this smell?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you know what did the clinical say on this?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And because we don't have that um sort of off the cuff conversation time, I find that it has been a challenge, but one that has worked out better because we're all paying closer attention to what everybody on the team has to say.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: We all are listening.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, like just today, you know, um, every Friday we have a meeting where all of the editors share kind of, you know, the new products that they were, you know, pitched this week or what they received or what they're working on, and to hear, oh, that's interesting.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I got this, and oh, that plays nicely with this.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we start to notice there are trends coming because multiple people are receiving things rather than all coming to the office.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's really cool.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I like that compare, you know, like what do you have?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you have here?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's a it's a nice team building exercise, I feel like.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what's even funnier is we had our annual awards come out every year.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it came out uh at the first week of April.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, I was just gonna ask you that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to go through that with us if you can, like how that works, how you guys decide your winners.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know all about that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the first year, obviously, that we have done, you know, usually it's like you you are in our office during this three to five month testing period and you're literally stepping over, tripping over beauty products.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: This year we had over 10,000 submissions.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what's crazy is, you know, in order to get the new beauty seal, you really first and foremost, the product has to deliver on its claims.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've already said we love a good clinical study, has to really solve a beauty problem.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you want to be really excited about the products that you use.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's really interesting to me, again, because I don't have that, the traditional editorial background.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: One of the editors will pick up a problem and say, This was the best XYZ I've ever used.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then another editor's like, Really?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because that went in my discard bucket.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I find it so fascinating to understand why.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, well, obviously you're 50 and she's 30, and she has, you know, coarse hair and you have thin, you know, you know, different hair.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really is interesting.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the process, you know, the products come in, and this year they were sent to various people's homes.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And to try to, you know, be as eco-conscious as possible, we actually asked the brands rather than to send multiple products to multiple places, we tried to have them go like in a routing system.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, like a bunch of products went to one person who tried them, and then they that whole shipment was sent to someone else.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: We were really trying to make it as easy for the brands as possible.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you know, the editors really went through.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, you know, I don't pick the products, um, but the editors went through and really we worked.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: We put together a board to help us specifically on our in-office and post-procedure treatments.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we had an amazing group of a pro panel of 30 board-certified plastic surgeons, dermatologists, and in-office winners were selected.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we really relied on them and their patient experiences.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it was, it's a lot of work.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it sounds like it.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's not just, oh, this is new, let's give it an award.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it really is, um, it's a mix of old and new.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have our cult classic tag, which means that if you see that, it's a tried and true favorite.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's been on the market for at least five years.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: We have 10 categories, we had 280 winners.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our team worked hard.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it sounds very difficult, actually.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how you you narrow it down.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it reminds me of medical school admissions.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is a lot of that.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the team does, I think, an incredible job.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the other thing is there's a lot of there is a lot, excuse me, of amazing products.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And just because somebody doesn't win doesn't mean the product's not great.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we still have a full section in the magazine of products that we're covering.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it takes a lot to win an award.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, we have 10,000 products and only 281.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a that's a huge like, you know, thing to go through and to be able to narrow down.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, it must take so much time and energy.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, months and months.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I joke around with my team because I think that sometimes they try so many products.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think our dermatologists are like, what are you doing to your skin?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you can't put all this together on.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I want to actually ask you though, because um, I'm very curious in terms of like beauty content.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there's a lot of things changing these days.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know like, you know, people are coming out with uh, you know, new ways to to kind of bring beauty forward.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not just about products anymore, it's about like conversations and and I don't know, just different things.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so how do you guys incorporate um that kind of stuff into the magazine?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, just so that it's like mixed up content, you know what I mean?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe like YouTube, you know, influencer that's blew up, or maybe you know, something on Instagram that's really going crazy.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how are those different ways of like people talking about beauty incorporated?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a that's you know, it's a great question again, because part of our brain trust, you know, we do work with certain influencers and we do have um, you know, some contributing editors that you know are dedicated to really paying attention to trends, whether it be on TikTok or whether it be elsewhere.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And because again, our editors are so entrenched, they all have their favorites that they follow.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: We pay close attention to what's happening sort of in social media, but just because something's blowing up, again, it doesn't necessarily mean it's right for our book or our website, because again, we're a little bit um our consumers a little bit older and a little bit more interested in kind of key ingredients.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Again, the same things I've been saying, the science behind the product, but we have to make sure that we talk about everything.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we more listen to what's the tone of that conversation and what buzzwords are no longer happening.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we notice a lot of trends, whether it's ingredient-based or other things, but we also notice, and we've been noticing, you know, certain things are incredibly important.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sustainability is something that there's an insane amount of conversation around.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's like a huge thing right now.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's huge.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we were actually talking about it today.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like to me, it's not uh you are or you aren't.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Every step that you can take helps.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, we just started with our our test tubes and our beauty boxes that we do.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: We just started mailing 100% carbon neutral shipping.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a big deal, you know, it's it's something that, you know, we it doesn't mean that we're, you know, green per se.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: We make each eco-conscious decisions whenever we can.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really important.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we notice that a lot of the conversations are around refillable packaging and um sustainability.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we're working on some amazing content for that, not only in book, but um, you know, online, of course.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, actually it's interesting because I talked to um the founder of Ace of Air um the other week and Stephanie Stahl, and she was explaining, you know, just their approach.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just sitting there thinking, like, wow, we have we're really making leaps and bounds and sustainability.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of like really getting the word out there, you know what I mean, and like showing people like examples.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it must be hard for editors, you know what I mean, to put all that information together.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: It must be difficult.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's challenging, but again, because our audience is so defined, and again, we we know who we're speaking to, our book is sort of laid out where we always have our trends and certain things up front, and we really like to stay, you know, obviously celebrity content's important, but we like to stay on top.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we actually have a page in every issue, it's our social network page, and we kind of follow what are the celebrities doing on social and like what are they posting and what's exciting, and like what's our point of view on that?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, we're really, really big on obviously, you know, again, I keep saying it, but ingredients and you know, um like doctor content, but everything falls into place because when you have the right ingredients and you're doing the right thing, you know, these same brands that are so focused on, you know, where they're sourcing their products from, or a product like Eminence Organics who plants trees and does different things based on their products that are being sold, like they do the right thing because it's a part of their brand.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to connect with brands like that, and then it just sort of organically works its way into editorial because we're reporting on what's happening in the industry.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, good content, finding good content, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all about the content, yeah.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: You like attracts, like I mean, it I it makes a lot of sense, and I and I, you know, I I find it interesting because I think new beauty for me, especially as a consumer, has really stood out in the last I think you know, few years because I I know everyone flocked to, you know, back I also grew up with highlights, you know, and Vogue and like all the the magazines.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And like when I look at it, I I I can feel like that same classic appeal that I used to feel in those magazines, you know.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like it's really come on to my radar, and I've I've just loved all the pieces you guys have.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we went into a major brand redesign right before the pandemic.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: So a little over a year ago, we relaunched, we changed the size of the publication, the physical size, and we actually upped the quality of the paper, and we went to more of like a book paper because what we had been hearing is that people keep the magazine, the we now call it a book, for so long and they they you know earmark the pages because it's evergreen content.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really is, you know, there could be a new trend, but for the most part, it's very, very permanent content.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we found that people were holding on to them for so long, it's the most expensive magazine beauty magazine on the market.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's now$12.95.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was$10.95 forever.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: But in my opinion, because I love magazines, and that's what I started with, nothing replaces to me the feeling of sitting and holding the magazine.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, oh my gosh, I'm so glad to sell that.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, like I love all the digital you know advantages we have now.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have so many subscribers that subscribe to our digital edition, and I'm very appreciative for that and of them.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I personally don't think holding a device is the same experience as flipping through the pages and even seeing the gorgeous ads, like that's part of the experience.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know, and like the like the perfume like advanced, oh my god, like what the heck?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was a whole culture around magazines, and I completely agree with you.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like yeah.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I also think, too, that um, you know, it's funny, it's like you think about what it used to be like when you flip through the magazine, and I know that the magazine in in in general is having some challenges, but I think niche publications like books like ours or you know, topics that are a hundred percent dedicated, you know, titles that are a hundred percent dedicated to one topic.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a beauty enthusiast, you're not going to not pick up new beauty.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're into beauty, you're going to pick it up or read it.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think exactly, yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's like it's the same thing.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think of like I have a friend who's really into yachts and boats.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, he's not gonna stop getting that one magazine that he loves.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we try to keep in the back of our mind with every issue of New Beauty.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is everything in here something that a beauty enthusiast is gonna be so excited to learn about that she's gonna want to keep it or tell a friend?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like what happened to like ripping out pages for magazines and like creating collages, and you know what I mean?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Those things are meaningful.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: That that goes a long way.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a cut, that's a culture.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Was that what's my it's like you can see into the wall in my office right now?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have tear torn out pages from not just from mine, from all different magazines.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was my high school bedroom, seriously.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like magazines, you know, everywhere.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's the same.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, Stephanie, I honestly could talk to you for days, and I'm gonna beg you to come back onto the show because I would love um to talk more.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to thank you though for your time and for all of your insight.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: This has been such a fun interview.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to come back, Bob.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, after our beauty redefined comes out in July, so we can talk more about it.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm totally in.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would love that.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope everyone out there, I hope you guys love this episode.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I know Stephanie is, you know, a wealth of knowledge.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if you guys have any questions, leave them in our concept art and I will pass them along to her team and maybe we can come up with new topics to ask her for next time, you know?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good for me.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much, and I'll be back next time.
• 35:22
  unknown: Okay.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 35:26
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• 35:31
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• 35:33
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• 35:36
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• 35:48
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• 36:03
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• 36:05
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• 36:09
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• 36:19
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• 36:25
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• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.