Latest / The MADness Podcast / [MAD LABZ] How to get the most out of your agent and consultant networks ft. Stefan Tueger
Transcript
- Nik Higgins: Okay, hello everyone. Welcome to this Mad Labs episode of the Madness Podcast. I am joined by Stefan Sugar, who is the executive director at Lion Rock Education based out of Hong Kong. Stefan, how are you doing? Stefan: Hi Nick, thank you very much for the warm welcome. I'm very fine. Thank you. Nik Higgins: Good. And I hear you've just been on a bit of an epic European adventure. You were just telling me before the recording started. How many countries did you make it to? Stefan: I believe we are in the ninth country now. Nik Higgins: Nine countries. Okay, and you're heading back to Hong Kong tomorrow, is that correct? Stefan: Yes, back to Hong Kong tomorrow, correct, yes. Nik Higgins: Very nice, very nice. Okay, so Stefan, you have come on as our expert to talk about how international schools can get the most out of their agent and consultant network, which I know will be a topic that's of serious interest to our listeners. If it's all right, I think we should probably start with some definitions. So, for the uninitiated, what on earth are agents? What on earth are consultants? What are the similarities and and what are the differences? Stefan: That's actually a very good question. I think in general both are quite similar, but the main difference is that education consultants actually work for the family and education agents work for the schools. And the way I see it is because education consultants are usually getting paid by the family, so they work in the best interest of the family. And they look at all schools that are out there. So they have the full width and the full breadth. And they really also analyze the family and the student in order to find the best matching school. Whereas education agents, they usually have a list of schools which pay them, and then they try to find try to place the student within these schools and then get paid by the schools. So there's not that much in depth research about the family, but more to be able to place the student as soon as possible. And also on the other side, of course, I mean schools will get more honest feedback from us about how parents think about their school, whereas agents will not probably not tell the whole truth about what p parents think about their schools. I think it goes both ways and also this is the reason why We decided to become consultants, not agents. Nik Higgins: Interesting, potentially controversial. So different motivations, different kind of perspectives there. That's that that that's really fascinating. Can can you talk about some of the things that a consultant might do? So you've said that they work for the families and they'll kind of explore the fit of a particular school for a for for the the the family's child or children. How how does that work in practice, Stefan? What do what do consultants actually do on the ground? Stefan: I believe working with the families really needs a lot of time to spend during the research phase actually meeting the family, meeting the parents, meeting the child. And in many cases, we also work directly with the student, especially those who have reached the the the teenager age. we just finished a project with with a 15-year-old and she actually managed the project from the end till the big from the beginning till the end. And We also actually are very close with the schools, so we visit a lot of schools and we have very good relationships with schools. And again, as I said, it's about finding the best fit because there are many schools out there. And of course, also many parents I think approach consultants and many parents will ask for for the for the usual top popular schools. But in many cases we then also turn around and tell them actually after our research and after talking to you, after having all the knowledge about your family, we would suggest different schools, a different set of schools instead. And then very often this also comes as a surprise to the family. But also many cases they follow our advice and many parents are really happy about that we don't just target those schools that everyone is targeting, but schools where the student would actually thrive and have an amazing educational future. I think this is really the difference to really use our intelligence and also the op the the ability to read between the lines and to really grasp what kind of character the student actually has. Nik Higgins: Interesting. All right. Thanks for that. So on the podcast, we have listeners from I don't know what last count, 70 plus countries around the world. So could could you give our our listeners who work in lots of different kinds of schools in lots of different kinds of roles? Can you give them a sense of the kind of agent and consultant landscape around the globe as you're aware of it? You know, are agents and consultants particularly present in some markets rather than others, or are they kind of a a feature of the international Stefan: Yeah, good point. I believe it heavily depends on on the region and also on the knowledge of the parents. So I believe in terms for for day school consultancy, I believe Hong Kong is quite an outlier. I'm not sure if there's any other city or region actually that would require consultants like us. Maybe China, maybe Singapore, maybe Dubai. but because the market here is so competitive, so mature. there's so much demand. actually there are less and less spaces available, especially the very competitive schools. I mean they have wait lists for for years. it's actually it's in many cases it's the probability is extremely low to actually get an offer. but if you look more like boarding schools, colleges, university guidance, I think there are many, many agents all over the world, and I think it's also It's a it's a great service because most families, let's say if if you're in Hong Kong and you want to apply for boarding school in in the UK or in Canada, yeah, you just don't know the market. So I think agents can also help you a lot to facilitate the whole process. But an educational consultancy like us and with this in depth service and knowledge, I think it's quite unique in the Hong Kong region. Nik Higgins: Interesting. Go on. So you you you kind of touched on Hong Kong specifically there as a uniquely competitive market. Not everyone listening will be familiar with the kind of nuances of Hong Kong. So what what what what what's happening there? What do you mean by competitive? You mentioned, you know, long wait lists, like what what what's happening on the ground in in Hong Kong's international school scene? Stefan: I mean, look at Hong Kong in general. It's it's one of the financial centers in the world. And many, many families and many professionals come to Hong Kong to to start their career or build their businesses. And Hong Kong has always been the the the gateway between the East and the West. And in particular Hong Kong, I I don't know about other international schools market, but in particular Hong Kong, actually you can attend international schools no matter the passport. And this opens the opportunities for all families, no matter if they come from Hong Kong, from China, from from any Western countries. And in Hong Kong also the difference between the international schools market and the local market is so vast, so so so big, that most families, especially those coming from foreign countries, it's pretty much impossible for them to to send their child to a local school because of the the culture, the language. the way things are taught. And in particular after COVID, I mean there was a short window during COVID when actually it was easier to get into a school. But now Hong Kong is back in the swing. Hong Kong is is back really and many, many families are coming to Hong Kong and also of course many families from the mainland through the through the so called taught talent scheme. So it's very crowded. And also many schools have this yeah they have their nose a little bit high to be honest. especially those very established and very popular schools. And you need to know how to approach these schools, you need to prepare for the interviews, which can be quite tough, quite hard. You cannot just show up and hope for the best. So and we see it a lot actually, that parents try themselves first and then they come to us after they failed. And that's okay. But yeah, it's a very much a market, very competitive, a lot of unwritten rules. it's a very about about relationships. You cannot buy your way in. it doesn't really help if you know someone sitting in the board, for example. You always have to go through the through the proper procedure. It's very transparent, very fair in Hong Kong. And yeah, again, I mean most families also they just don't expect how hard it is. Let's say you're from the UK and you have a new job in Hong Kong. They they would never expect how hard it is, how challenging it is to actually get a seat in one of the Hong Kong schools. Nik Higgins: Interesting, that's really useful. Thanks, Stefan. So you are a consultant, but we've brought you on as our expert in both agents and consultants. I'm going to ask you in a second what are your top three tips for how schools can better use those networks? But for for anyone who's not familiar, so this is thank you, that's a really interesting introduction to agents and consultants in general and also to what's happening in Hong Kong. But could you just give, you know, for anyone who is again uninitiated, a sense of how schools currently use their agent and consultancy networks like what part of the kind of marketing and admissions jigsaw do they kind of fill or what you know what what what what what what part of the the the mix do they occupy? How how are they being used by schools? Stefan: Yes, so I mean some schools will of course also offer commissions for for a for agents or consultants. Nik Higgins: Mm-hmm. Stefan: but majority of the schools really because they don't need that, there's already enough demand on their side. but of course if you work with a consultant, if you work with a trusted partner, then the schools are also more open. To receive applications that come through consultants like us because we pre-wetted these families. And of course, the school will know that these families are actually much more serious. Because we also, of course, we see it a lot. I mean, families will apply by themselves and they will just how we call it spray and pray, right? So they will apply for many, many schools without putting much thought into it. But if you work with a consultant like us, we actually pre-seal, we pre-filter. And this also leads to a much better outcome for the schools because yeah, those families we we put forward are also quite likely to actually really enroll with the school and this is what is really appreciated by the schools. Nik Higgins: Yeah, interesting. Okay. And and Stefan, in a previous life, you were a market and admissions director at a school. So for you in that role, agents and consultants, like what what space did they occupy? Like what what did they kind of do that you couldn't do? How did they extend your school's reach? Like how did you use them when you were in the in the role yourself? Stefan: Yes, so in fact I worked for several international schools here in the region, including Huchung International School, Shrewsbury International School, Kido Preschools, and German Swiss International School. And I also built pretty solid and deep connections with many consultants, which are now my competitor. It's a bit awkward, yes. but I must also say that I was never really impressed with most consultants. Nik Higgins: Mm. Stefan: Or which I would probably more more consider like agents because Nik Higgins: Yeah. Stefan: I've seen they also brought especially GSIS. I remember there was one company and they brought like dozens of families. and we rejected all of them pretty much. because again the the the agency or the consultancy didn't take the time to really understand the family and understand our school and and make it a match. Nik Higgins: Nice, thanks Stefan. Okay, so we're now at your top tips. This is what the listeners really tune into these episodes for. So the title of this episode is How International Schools Can Get the Most From Their Agent and Consultant Networks. So what would be your three top tips? And this could be how schools can work with people in those networks better. In fact, no, I'm not gonna preempt what you might say. You're the expert. So over to you. What what would be your first tip, Stefan? Stefan: I think in general Reply quickly. So because especially in our in our field, of course we work with families who who plan a few years in advance, but also majority of our families actually need a space tomorrow. So we need schools to act firmly, quickly and decisively and let us know if there are anything any openings at the moment. And also on the other hand, it would be great if schools in general could be more proactive about informing us about any changes. For example, if they open more classes, if there's a new principal coming, if they have spaces, if someone left in a particular year group, for example, I think this would be very helpful. And in general, yeah, just just work more closely with the consultants and really also use them as a as an echo hall, as someone who gets the the direct and unbiased and honest feedback from the parents and also asks us, hey Stefan, like what do parents actually think about our school? And is there anything that we can address it? And then the last one usually it's a very factual one actually, but it's about yeah, will the school bus actually go to the district that we are moving to, for example. Nik Higgins: Mm. Stefan: This is a big one for families because if there's no school bus in right in front of your door, then it's actually almost impossible to get to the school. Nik Higgins: Yeah. Stefan: So and many schools actually don't publish this information on their website, like school Nik Higgins: Mm. Stefan: bus timetables, for example. Like very Nik Higgins: Mm. Stefan: very, very factual things really. yeah, so these are a few things. but in general I think working with with schools actually is is is going very well. Nik Higgins: Nice. Okay, so your top tips. I think there were four in there. It is speedy replies. It is proactively communicate with your agents and consultants and tell them about any changes that might be happening. The third is to use them as kind of like I suppose like y you you're you're you're kind of like moles in the in in the world of the parent. You you you're hearing the stuff that maybe schools don't hear. So I think that's really interesting. And the fourth one was equip them with specific answers and specific information that they can then communicate to the family. And the example that you gave there was school bus routes, which I think is like, yeah, it's a really easy one to overlook. But I think it's quite a it's quite a pertinent issue if you're deciding where to live. Stefan: Yes, correct, yes. Nik Higgins: All right, Stefan, thank you. So we're coming to the end of your episode. That was amazing. Thanks for an insight into the world of agents and consultants, and thank you for your top tips. we've mentioned a few times you are the executive director at Lion Rock Education based in Hong Kong. So, Stefan, this is your opportunity. What is Lion Rock Education? Stefan: What is line rock education? so again, my background is that I have worked in international schools for more than twelve years here in Hong Kong in local, regional and also global roles. And I've met hundreds, if not thousands, of families during that time. And I've also I've always noticed how shallow the knowledge of parents actually is, especially for those coming from outside the region, because they just don't know how competitive and challenging it is. So that's that brought me actually to to launch Line Rock Education to really yeah to really actually take a lot of time to to digest and understand what each family is all about. The character, not only the the student, but also the whole family, because also the family has to match the community of the particular school. Do you really want to have a beer with with the other families? Or will you feel left out a little bit? And Of course it's also my passion because I've worked in the industry for many, many years and I've built Nik Higgins: Mm-hmm. Stefan: really solid relationships with with many schools. And Nik Higgins: Mm-hmm. Stefan: I really want to give children a better future and again stop wasting time, money, effort, traumatic experiences and really make it a smooth process for the families because imagine you relocate to a different country, especially from the West to to Asia, it's quite frightening. And many parents actually underestimate how complicated and how tough it is to find a a place in a school, which is usually the the most the hardest task in the whole move. And this is where we step in and say, Okay, we take your hand and we guide you through the whole process as smooth as possible. And our service really includes everything from the research to the application to the interview preparation and then to decide which school to choose. It's it's a one stop solution. It could take four weeks, it could take two years. we are here for you and that's what we do and you will also work directly with me actually. So you will not be handed over to a junior staff. Nik Higgins: Nice. Okay. Thanks so much, Stefan. And if people want to find out more, where can they find you online? Stefan: So we have a website called www.linerockeducation.hk or of course they can also find us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, you name it, and we are also available via WhatsApp, WeChat. but I think the the first stop should be our website at Lionrockeducation.hk. Nik Higgins: Nice. So everyone check out LineRockeducation.hk and then you have a veritable smorgasboard of contact options from there, should you wish to get in touch with Stefan. So Stefan, thank you so much for being a great guest on this episode of the Madness podcast Mad Labs. And I hope we speak to you again very soon. Stefan: Yeah, let's do that. thank you, Nick, and have a nice day.