Latest / Pod Save America / “Drunk on Coup-laid.”

Transcript

“Drunk on Coup-laid.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, it's vaccine day and electoral college day.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: We're going to walk through the challenges and opportunities presented
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: by each of these milestones.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: I'm wearing a celebratory shirt as Michael O'Neill put a
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: picture of a cake I made on a shirt and
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: sent it to my house in honor of his friendship.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: That is very O'Neill. Well, that's pretty cool. But first, Lovett,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: how was the show this weekend?
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Great, love it or leave it. Sarah Silverman joined for
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: the monologue, which was hilarious. Then we were joined by
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: the first woman to get the vaccine in the UK,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: but we, you know, it was Darcy Carden. And Senator
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Brian Schatz joined for an update on negotiations in Congress.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: So check it out.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Is Senator Brian Schatz a co-host of Love It or
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Leave It at this point? Listen.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I just say, I say, get me shots.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: And then we move heaven and earth to make sure
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: that it works for his schedule in wherever he is.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Tommy, you've got a very big show this week on
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Pod Save the World. Tell us all about it.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: We're talking to a president, former President Obama later today
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: about his memoir. But specifically, Ben and I are going
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: to focus on all the foreign policy parts of the book,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: his record. So we haven't done it yet. So I
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: can't tell you if it's any good or not. You know,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: I don't want to lie to you people, but check
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: it out. It'll be out on Wednesday, normal time.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: We also want to give a shout out to Rachel,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Retina and the entire Hall of Shame team for a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: fantastic season of that pod. Hall of Shame is a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: cricket media show filled with fascinating and hilarious scandals and
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: sports from Metta World Peace to Spygate. It's a great
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: binge lesson for the holiday season. So go check that out. Finally,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: early voting in the January 5th Georgia runoffs has begun
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and your help is needed now more than ever. Head
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: over to votesaveamerica.com slash Georgia to adopt Georgia and find
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: something you can do right now. We'll also be sending
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: new opportunities for you to donate and volunteer to support
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: organizers on the ground in Georgia. All right, let's get
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: to the news. Less than a year after the first
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: documented coronavirus infection in the United States, the Food and
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Drug Administration just authorized Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: and the initial injections have begun today. marking the launch
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: of the largest vaccination effort in American history. The doses
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: will be distributed based on each state's adult population, and
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the states themselves would decide who gets vaccinated first, with
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: frontline health care workers expected to be at the front
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of the line. The first shipment of 3 million doses,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: enough to inoculate 1.5 million people, were flown out of
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Grand Rapids, Michigan on Sunday after being transported from one
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: of Pfizer's nearby facilities. Here's a clip of the crowd
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: gathered to watch the vaccine leave the warehouse.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Stop the steal. Stop the steal.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: It's just nice to see a group of people cheering
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: science and not trying to burn scientists at the stake.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: That is a good thing.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: That clip wasn't anything special for listeners. It could have
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: been any crowd, but it's not often we've been able
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: to talk about good news here, especially in 2020 on
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America. So I thought we'd play that clip. Lovett,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: you have any thoughts on the scope and speed of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: this scientific achievement and how it came to be? Yeah.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I actually would really recommend there was a deep, deep
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: dive in the Washington Post that was, I think, pretty
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: fair in looking at the achievement, Operation Warp Speed, Trump's impact,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: his negative impact. And inside of that piece, and I
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: don't want to just make it about Trump, but I
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: do think that there's something important in it because inside
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: of that piece, which is really about like This is
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: one of the greatest achievements in the history of science,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: really is. And it's born of an incredible focus over
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: the last year. It's born of decades of investment in
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: the public sector and basic research in systems that try
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: to prevent the influence of politics, of corporate influence and
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: interference on science, the building of public health infrastructure, of
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: trust in institutions, like all of that. But then there's
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: this senior administration official in the piece, and they're quoted
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: as saying something along the lines of, in 20 years,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: people won't remember bleach. They won't remember him not wearing masks.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: They won't remember this. They'll just remember Operation Warp Speed.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: And I saw that and I was like, oh, okay.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Wishing is not going to make that happen. And what
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: was striking to me in seeing the trucks leaving, it
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: was bittersweet to me. I was watching the videos on
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: repeat because what else am I going to do? And
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: what I was thinking when I saw it is, Look
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: at this incredible achievement that these scientists and.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Government were able to do together. It took everything that
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Trump hates.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: It took discipline. It took belief in institutions. It took
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: not allowing political interference. It took public investment.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Belief in math, science.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Math, science, and all of those things. Human ingenuity, human creativity,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: human discipline. It was enough to overcome the virus, and
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: that's extraordinary. But it wasn't enough to overcome Trump. It
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: wasn't enough to overcome the failure of leadership
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: And that is Trump's great failure. And it is
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: a tribute to every single person who was involved in
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: making this vaccine happen, that they were able to overcome
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: the absence of leadership that has been basically the only
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: consistent thing Trump has offered up and until him pretending
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: to be a leader by badgering officials to make the
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: vaccine roll out faster just before it is approved so
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: that he could claim some credit and get himself in
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: the news cycle.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: It ends as it began.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Tommy, what do you think? Do you think we'll still
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: remember the bleach in 20 years?
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, the idea that any of these people can
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: predict what we will or won't remember in 20, I
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: feel like in 20 years, our kids are going to
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: be like, So wait, you guys could have put Kleenex
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: on your face and not had 300,000 people died and
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: you chose not to. What's wrong with you? Like, you know,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: so anyway, that idiot is an idiot. On a personal level,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I just feel like it has been like really nice
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: for all of our mental health to wake up and
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: read these stories and see these photos, right? I mean,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Hannah and I canceled our plans to see her family
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: around Thanksgiving. We're staying in LA over Christmas instead of
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: going to see my mom and my sister and my
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: brother in Boston. And it sucks, right? I mean, holidays
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: are a big deal to us. They are to everybody.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: But finally, there's light at the end of the tunnel here.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And to Levitt's point, I mean, this vaccine is a miracle.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: 95% effective and created in record time. I mean, we
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: are so, so lucky. That is so much faster than
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: anything in history. It is way more effective than your
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: standard flu vaccine. So this is a miracle. And we
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: should be clear, the Pfizer vaccine was developed by a
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: German couple. Right. One of them was born in Turkey
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: and emigrated to Germany when he was four. The other
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: is the daughter of Turkish immigrants to Germany. So for
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: all of Trump's credit grab, we have Germans and immigrants
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: to thank for this Pfizer vaccine. The the Operation Warp
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Speed folks deserve some credit for buying 100 million doses
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: of the Pfizer vaccine. They deserve our eternal hatred and
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: shame for passing on up to 400 million doses at
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: no cost to the US. I mean, we could have
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: just like paid when we got it.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: But, you know, it's an extraordinary scientific feat. There's some
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: really interesting research about how in the future we might
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: be able to speed up this process even more. And
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: we might be able to pre-prepare vaccines for almost all
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: the major known viruses out there. We could maybe create
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: a vaccine for 50 to 100 of the most dangerous
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: prominent viruses for the cost of the F-35 fighter jet program.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: So that seems like a pretty good deal compared to
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: a plane we may or may not need to use.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So lots of good news today. Feeling really good about this.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And it was nice to see people feeling less scared, basically.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So I just remember in April, when this started, Dr.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Fauci said 12 to 18 months for a vaccine, hopefully.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: And there were a bunch of epidemiologists, scientists, and others
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: saying that Fauci's timeline was way too optimistic for 12
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: to 18 months, 11 months. That's what this vaccine came in,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: 11 months. The shortest timeline previously for any vaccine ever
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: was the mumps vaccine, which took four years.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: That was the record. And we've gone from four years
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to 11 months. And like, you know, Tommy, you just
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: mentioned about the 95% effective. FDA was ready to approve
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: a vaccine that was over 50% effective. No, like the
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: number of people that expected 95% effective. I mean, this is,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: it truly is a miracle. There were headlines back in
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: the spring saying like, we may never get a vaccine. So, no,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I had the same kind of, you know, hope and optimism.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: This section is John basically being so mad at like
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: a series of articles in The Atlantic that were so
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: annoying over the course of many months. It was like
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: the doom and gloom publication of Choice for several months.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I've been holding back on this because I think The Atlantic...
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: The Atlantic has some of like the best journalists in
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: the world and write some of the best fucking stuff
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: in the world. But the number of doomsday, you can
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: just Google them, the number of doomsday headlines in that
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: fucking publication about how we're going to live forever with
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: this and never go be the same is ridiculous. But anyway, no,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: so I was, I was like, I was very hopeful
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and optimistic too. And kind of what you were saying,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: love it. Like it, it really speaks to the fact that,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: you know, our world is politics and we talk so
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: much about politics. and we're all obsessed with politics and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: politics is really broken. And the brokenness of politics has
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: contributed to the death and disaster that has come from
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: this pandemic. But other parts of society are not broken.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Science is not broken. Like this was a feat of
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: science and just like a modern miracle that that we
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: should celebrate even though, you know, politics failed us so
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: incredibly in 2020 and everywhere else, every other way, every
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: other way.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Well, I also just say too that like Fauci said
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: basically that he was going to see this vaccine to
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: the end and that the compromises he was making, you know,
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: being inside of this administration, you know, we've talked a
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: lot about people saying they were compromising, you know, not
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: telling the truth about Trump. for their own political gain,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: failing to make any headway, failing to actually stand up
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: to Trump, doing the morally reprehensible and easy thing.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: But like, here's this.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Guy Fauci, who I think like we will look back
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: and say, like, did an extraordinary thing of serving his country,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: despite the headwinds that were presented by his boss, despite
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: the incredible obstacles set up by Donald Trump to make
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: sure that this came to an end. And like, he's
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: a real, you know, he's a hero.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: He is. So, uh, Trump did publicly pressure the FDA
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: to speed up the approval process from Saturday to Friday,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and his chief of staff reportedly threatened to fire FDA
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Commissioner Stephen Hahn if that didn't happen. You guys see
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: any problems with that?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah. Look, let's just talk about this issue
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: of credit for a minute, because there's a debate going on, too. But, like...
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: When we're talking about the Pfizer vaccine, the US deserves
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: credit for making an advance purchase of that vaccine in July.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: They got 100 million doses. I already mentioned how angry
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I am that they didn't advance purchase several hundred million
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: more doses, but whatever. But the thing that's incredible, again,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: about the Moderna vaccine is that that vaccine was designed
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: January 13th, 2020. We've had this vaccine formula in our
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: hands forever. for the entire year because a very brave
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Chinese doctor sequenced the genome and publicized it. And there
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: were these advances in mRNA technology that none of us
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: actually understand, but it allowed us to pull this off
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: so quickly. And now the problem becomes logistics. But I mean,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: in terms of like threatening the FDA chief, I mean,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: there's a huge problem with that. I mean, even the
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: term operation warp speed is horribly problematic if you think
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: about it from a medical point of view. Like we
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: know Trump wants credit for the vaccine being developed quickly,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: but this isn't fast food. Like no one is really
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: pumped about like a rushed medical product, right? Like no
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: one's getting the fastest created Tylenol ever, right? I mean,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: it's a bad idea to talk about this and to
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: talk about it as something that happened quickly or in
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: a rushed manner. And so Going even further to politicize
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: the approval process is a bad idea when you've got like,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously there's some subsets of the anti-vaxxer community
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: that are kind of super aggressive and dangerous and spread misinformation.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: But then there's other people, especially in the black community,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: who have read about the Tuskegee syphilis study. and have
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: some understandable hesitation based on that history about a new drug.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: So this is going to require a serious science-based public
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: awareness campaign. And that's really important because there's a lot
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: of people in this country who desperately want a vaccine
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: but can't have it, right? Like if you're getting chemotherapy,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: you can't get the vaccine. If you're under 16, as
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: of right now, you can't take the vaccine. It's not
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: clear when it's going to be approved for pregnant women.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: And so if the virus is swirling around the country
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: because a bunch of vaccine eligible people just refuse to
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: take it, that'll put others at risk. And so that's why,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: you know, it's just it's horrible that we have to
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: read these stories over and over again of Trump's politicizing
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: the process when if he had to shut up and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: stepped back and let the process work, things would be better.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: In fact, Pfizer didn't take Operation Warp Speed money because
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: they were worried that the government might slow them down.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like Trump is the worst offender here,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: but it is going to be a major challenge to
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: get the public communication around this correct, you know, even
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: for the Biden administration, who's going to approach it in
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: good faith, you know, even, you know, the FDA approval process,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't, it wasn't in a unanimous decision.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And some people were like, Oh, why did some members
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: of the panel vote against it? Well, it turns out
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the people who voted against it were just saying, Oh,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's ready for 16 and 17 year olds,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: just those two specific ages. But it's like that's the
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: kind of thing that you actually need to make sure
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: you communicate clearly to people, because if you just see
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: a number, oh, some people voted against it, you think
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: it's dangerous. It's not. It's just they had a problem
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: with the ages so far, you know. So there is
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: going to be like there's no such thing as too
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: much public communication around this vaccination effort. And it really
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: has to be consistent and done very well.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, there was something such a, to me,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: it was such like a signal example of what Trump
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: has done throughout this period because, yeah, he was complaining that, oh,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: they held back the saying that the vaccine worked because
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: they didn't want to help me in my election, right?
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: That was just in the past couple of weeks.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: But this was like, he knew the approval was going
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: to happen. It had nothing to do with him. He
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: wasn't going to speed it up. He wasn't really going
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: to slow it down. The vaccine was going to be
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: delivered on Monday. So he like hectored and hectored and
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: hectored to achieve some made up results so that he
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: could look like a TV president. The other piece of
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: this too is there's a lot of stuff that should
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: have been happened that hasn't happened, right? There should be
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: a public campaign going on right now that doesn't exist
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: about how the vaccine is going to be distributed, where
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: it's going to go. Like there's all the aspects of
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: presidential leadership that have just been completely missing, right? Like
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: it's why there aren't enough N95 masks right now. It's
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: why there may be supply problems down the line with
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: the vaccine. And it's why right now we don't know
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: how people will get it. We don't know where it's
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: going to go. We don't know the process because there's
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: been no public education. And some of this hasn't even
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: been fully thought out.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Trump administration officials have said they hope to vaccinate up
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: to 24 million Americans by mid-January. And Joe Biden has
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: set a goal of 100 million vaccinations within his first
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: 100 days, which would bring us to the end of April.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: What are some of the bigger challenges in getting every
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: American inoculated as quickly as possible? You know, we've already
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: covered sort of the demand side of it, which is
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: making sure that enough people want it and trust it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But what are some of the other issues involved in this, Tommy?
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think this is now just a massive
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: logistical issue. You know, when you think about 100 million,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: 200 million, 500 million doses, if everybody needs two of them,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: all of those doses need to be contained in a
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: little vial and they all need to be manufactured and
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: they all need to be shipped somewhere and they all
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: need to be doled out by states that are really
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: short on cash. And so it really is like, thank
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: God Joe Biden and his team are coming in because
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: it really is just about competency. And so that's where, again,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I feel a little more hopeful. I mean, I feel
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: hopeful in a lot of ways with Joe Biden and
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: not Trump, but it's something we should all feel hopeful about,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: that maybe we can speed up these timelines. I guess
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the thing I don't understand, and look, I'm totally out
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: of my depth here, is why the US government isn't
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: using the Defense Production Act to maybe aid in manufacturing
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: or distribution of the vaccine. I'm not saying that they
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: should do what Trump seems to be attempting to do
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: with his executive order, which is use the DPA or
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: use the government to say, hey, Pfizer, all your doses
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: are for us. They're not for other countries, right? Like
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that's immoral and it's not feasible because they manufacture a
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: lot of these doses outside the country too. But like
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: at a minimum, we could use the DPA to ramp
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: up production of PPE and Or we could use military
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: assets to ship some of these vaccines, especially the ones
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: that need to be stored at super cold temperatures. We
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: could ramp up the availability and frequency of testing to
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: do a better job of identifying outbreaks. I mean, I
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: do think like the thing we were just talking about
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: was the broken messaging and clarity about what's going to
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: happen and what's going to expect. And the Biden team
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: will fix that. Along those lines, I mean, I think
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: one of the best things that the media could do
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: is commit to not reporting on or amplifying Trump's COVID-related
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: lies or misinformation starting the day he leaves office. You
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? He is the biggest problem in
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: terms of vaccine hesitation right now. And we should all
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: agree that we are moving on from this asshole if
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: you're not a Fox News host.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I sort of get the sense that the DPA is like,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and it's tough to figure this out now because we
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: still have the Trump administration here and we don't know
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: what the Biden administration is going to do, but it's
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: almost like a last resort thing that you use if
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: all of the different private companies aren't cooperating and doing
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: what you want them to do fast enough. And of
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: course it's like, there's a whole supply chain issue, right?
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: So there's supply of the vaccine, but there's glass vials, syringes, needles,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: cooling systems, ultra cold freezers, GPS, thermal sensors. I mean,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: if you read some of these stories about what they
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: have to do to get this vaccine around, It's incredible.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: And it's like so much more than just needing enough
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: actual vaccine. So the coordination and logistics are just like
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: mind boggling. Also delivering them, right? Like you need the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: first batch of vaccines are going to hospitals that can
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: handle ultra cold storage, which is not every hospital. Trucks
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: that can handle ultra cold storage, which is certainly not
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: every truck. And then you have the issue where it's
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: like going to be harder to reach rural and underserved
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: areas that just don't have the right healthcare capacity. How
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: do you get it to them? When you don't have
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the right trucks and hospitals there, like it is a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: it's a Biden administration has quite a challenge.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: We need the Moderna approval to come through because that
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: can be stored at more regular temperatures. And that will,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I think, help for sure.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: And I do sort of wish AstraZeneca hadn't just told
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: doctors to kind of, you know, give give people two
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: or three fingers worth. Yeah. Like, you know, two fingers
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: for most people, three fingers if you're like, you're, you know, really.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Thirsty for the vaccine. Yeah, that was not a good idea.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Because not great. Not great. And I wonder what's going
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: on with Johnson and Johnson. Come on, Johnson and Johnson.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: But Tommy, you said this a couple times but we
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: really should hit on it like this fucking the fact
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: that the trump administration could have bought 400 million more
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: doses from pfizer had the this was a new york
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: times story a couple weeks ago had the chance in
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: july and then i didn't realize until i saw scott
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: gottlieb the former fda commissioner was on CNBC this morning saying,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: as late as November, this November, the Trump administration had
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: another chance to buy another 400 million doses and didn't.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And we still don't know why. Like, I keep looking for,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like, are we just, is this hyperbole? Are we
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: like not? No, no. There's no explanation anywhere, as far
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: as I can tell, of why they passed up in
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: November the chance to buy another 400 million doses.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I get that they're hedging their bets and buying from
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: a bunch of companies. But again, like, in the grand
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: scheme of things, first of all, I think we had
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: to make the payment upon receipt of the doses. So
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: if we didn't get them from Pfizer, we wouldn't have
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: to pay the money. But in the grand scheme of things,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: spending another $ 8 billion on vaccine doses is nothing, nothing
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: compared to the cost in lives, in our economy and
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: everything else. It is baffling. It is absolutely mind boggling.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: It is baffling. I don't get how this happened. This
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: is a fuck up of just epic proportion. And I
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: don't know, hopefully we'll figure out who did it. I
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: bet the email just like unopened in Jared's inbox somewhere
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: with one of his you know, his college roommates, you know,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: told him not to do it or something.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I've been looking too.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: It's like, there's really is, you can't find any plausible
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: explanation because it was not, the money was no risk.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: There was no risk. It just was like, if it worked.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: And it's like, I was like, are they, were they,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: were they worried about getting the super cold version where
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: they were also counting on Moderna, AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson?
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Is there any explanation? So far, there's been no explanation whatsoever.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: You touch on this, but experts say that it's going
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: to cost about $ 8 billion for the states to distribute
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: all this. And it's not just its distribution. It's storing
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the vaccine, hiring medical workers, running public awareness campaigns. Federal
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: government picks up some of the tab, but a lot
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: of this is on the states. And of course, states
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: don't have any money left. because of this recession, and
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: they have been begging for local and state aid for months,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: that Mitch McConnell is holding up single-handedly. In fact, he's
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: holding up the entire COVID relief bill over this because
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want states to get a penny of additional money.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: It does seem to me like Democrats should just hammer
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: this issue relentlessly and turn the state and local aid
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: issue into an issue about vaccine distribution to states.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, just before we were recording, it looked
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: like some of the negotiators were putting out kind of
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: two versions, right? They were going to put out the
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: version of the bill that was just the relief portion,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: and they were going to separate out the state aid
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: and the liability portion.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Because they probably know that that's not going to pass.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: And they're like, all right, we'll just fucking set that loose.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Well, it does seem like if we really are separating
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: out liability and state and local aid, it does seem
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: to doom liability protections in state and local aid, because
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Mitch McConnell won't budge on state and local aid. And
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Democrats obviously don't want liability protections. And I don't care
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: what that negotiation looks like. It's a maddening thing. You know,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: I talked to Schatz about it in Love It or
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Leave It. And it really is. It's It's worth remembering,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: this is taking a really important part of protecting people
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: and helping people during this crisis and adding a completely
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: unrelated thing of immunizing corporations, which does nothing to help
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: us get out of this crisis. But it does seem
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: as though separating those things out makes both far less
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: likely to happen while making direct payments maybe more plausible.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: One of the things that drives me the most insane
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: about Washington is that it's all about expectations management in
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: terms of press coverage, right? So the worse you are
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: as a human being, the more terrible you are consistently,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: the less likely you are to get hammered over an
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: issue like this. And when it comes to Mitch McConnell,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: he has spent months refusing to engage with Democrats over
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: COVID relief period, right? And now he wants to punish
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: states because their finances have been decimated by lockdowns that
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: were made necessary to by a federal response that was
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: absolutely miserable. And again, like love it. His top priority
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: is liability protection for businesses.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: What?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Like Mitch McConnell has blood on his hands. People are
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: waiting for hours in food lines because of Mitch McConnell, right?
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Like states.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Have to decide who gets this vaccine first. They have
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: to distribute it. They have to do all these logistics
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: and he's preventing them from getting that money. Right now,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Mitch McConnell is blocking a bipartisan bill to prevent patients
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: who have insurance from getting surprise medical bills for unexpected
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: out of network or emergency care.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Because he cares more about private equity backed insurance company
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: profits than regular people. McConnell is one of the worst
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: people in Political life in political history. He's disgusting. He's
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: a corporate stooge He's cynical and like the coverage of
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: him in how he acts is is talked about as
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: sort of savvy or tough and impressive. The reality is
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: he's a monster. He's a monster. He's a bad legislator.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: All he does is block shit. Everything they do is
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: via some ominous bill. Tommy, what do you think of Mitch?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's just, it's so frustrating.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Tommy, you gotta tell us what you think about him.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: It's like you get- Stop mincing words.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: You get punished for trying. You know what I mean?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: It's like everyone's hammering Pelosi online. for engaging or not
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: engaging fucking tweeting up pictures of the amount of ice
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: cream she has in her freezer like Mitch McConnell is
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the clear enemy he has been all along.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: But this is this is what drives me nuts it's
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: like And you know why Mitch McConnell is going to
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: get his way on this and this deal is probably
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: going to pass with all of the shit that he
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: wants in it or doesn't want in it is because
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: he's got the fucking numbers and he's got Donald Trump
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: in the White House. Like I thought, you know, Bernie
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Sanders said the deal is bad and we shouldn't support
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the deal. And like, I agree with him in the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: sense that the deal is fucking bad. The bipartisan compromise
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: is bad. Now that they've separated state and local aid
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and liability protections, what's left over is even more inadequate
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: than the bipartisan compromise. It's shit for sure. But like,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: What's the choice here? You're not going to negotiate a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: better package with these Republicans. Who are you going to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: get to vote for more money? You're going to get
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Susan Collins and Mitt Romney to vote for more money
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and Lisa Murkowski? No, they said this is as best
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: that they would do. And if you don't take the
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: deal and we don't win Georgia, we're not going to
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: get a better deal when Joe Biden's president. And Joe
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Biden's not going to have a mechanism to force a
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: better deal because Mitch McConnell is going to sit there
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and say, fuck you. I have the numbers. I don't
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: have to pass a deal.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: If they really do pull out state and local aid,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: And they pull out the liability protections, which obviously none
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: of us think should be part of this at all.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: It makes no sense.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: And they have said from the beginning they won't do
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: a trillion dollars. I mean, keep in mind, Democrats, right,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: we've come down from three trillion to two trillion to
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: one five.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Now we're trying to get to one.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: What I don't know is what happens if they replace
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: the state and local aid as it was drafted with
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: direct payments. Does that become something that gets people like
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Bernie back on board?
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe you try that. I mean, Bernie is one thing,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: but like Josh Hawley or some of these Republicans who
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: want direct payments. Yeah, I would try to get as
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: much in there as I could, you know, and I
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: would try to push more direct payments for sure. But
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: like at the end of the day, I would also
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: take whatever's left because something is better than nothing for
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: people who are struggling, even though it's not money. No,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, Congress doesn't do anything well anymore. What
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: they do is they jam every bill they're ever supposed
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: to pass together in what's called an omnibus. And the
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: deadline for that bill, which is currently, I think, 1.4
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: trillion with the T dollars is Friday or else the
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: government shuts down. They're going to try to jam whatever
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: like COVID relief measures they can into that. And that's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: kind of like the best and only shot we're going
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to have until February, March.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I also, what I was going to say is, yeah,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: that's exactly right. And so like this, if there's going
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: to be something close to a trillion dollar relief bill,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: it will be inadequate. It will be terribly inadequate and
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: people will be suffering next year. And if what you're
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: doing is replacing state and local aid with direct payments
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: to people, you are kind of changing where that inadequacy
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: and where that pain will be felt. And basically what
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: you're saying is next year, You want states and localities
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: to be put in incredibly difficult positions, right as hopefully
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: we're emerging from this, to cut transportation, cut schools, cut
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: public health, defund the police, something Republicans seem to believe
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: is something that they oppose, and every other local service.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: So it really is like, because we are talking about
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: a completely inadequate stimulus, no matter what happens, we are
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: really just talking about who do we want to unnecessarily
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: subject to pain?
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: You want an adequate stimulus? Vote for two Democrats in Georgia.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: That's how we're going to get an adequate stimulus.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: There you go. It's the only hope of something next year.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: The only hope of something next year. Yeah, that's it.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Other big news today is that it's the day assigned
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: by the U.S. Constitution for each state's electors to gather
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and cast their official ballots for president based on the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: winner of the popular vote in that state.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: As the founders intended. Literally. You gather and hide. Yeah,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: with police protection. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm too
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: hot today.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: It is a day that usually passes without much fanfare,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: except for this year, when Donald Trump and most Republican
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: politicians in Congress have so far refused to accept the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: results of a presidential election for the first time in
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: American history. Even though their false conspiracies about voter fraud
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: have essentially been unanimously rejected by election officials and judges
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: from across the political spectrum, liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: They were like... Yeah, basically these kind of cases. I
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: don't know if we can shut them down. Oh, but
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: this case.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Definitely this case. So on one hand, we have a
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: complete rejection by the Supreme Court that comes after 59
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: other rejections by judges appointed by Democratic and Republican presidents,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: including Trump. On the other hand, We have 17 state
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: attorneys general and 126 Republican members of the House of Representatives.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: That is more than half the Republican caucus, including minority
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: leader Kevin McCarthy, who wants to be fucking Speaker of
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the House in two years. All these people publicly supported
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: an attempt to overturn the results of the election, publicly
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: supported and lent their names to. What do you guys
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: take away from that?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Tommy?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Tommy?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I take away that the Republican Party is
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: no longer a party. It's a cult. And the cult
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: leader is about to be out of office, but he
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: is still mixing up a big vat of Kool-Aid. And
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: he has not loosened his grip on these people at all.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't matter how irrational the demand is.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter that the demands are illegal. The MAGA
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: cult does not believe in democracy. They believe in Trump. And,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I just people love to both sides it
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: and decry partisanship like we should just be clear. This
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: is a very new thing. Like the Democratic Party was
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: supportive of Obama, but if he had said falsely that
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: the BP oil spill was fixed when everyone was watching
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: oil gushing out of it on live TV, zero Democrats
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: would have fallen in line behind him, right? But like
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Trump's COVID denial is worse than that. This electoral fiction
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: he's peddling is worse than that. And so it's a
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: very scary thing. I would like to believe that it
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: will be destructive for the Republican Party and then maybe
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Democrats can win, but the odds are that 2022 is
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: going to be brutal because of redistricting. And so we
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: shouldn't count on it. And I don't, I don't know
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the way around it. Like, I hope that people will
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: get tired of his shtick, but that was my hope
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: in 2015 and then 16. And then, you know, the
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Republican primary happened and obviously that didn't happen. I hate
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: to say it guys like, Oh, well, one obvious thing
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that would be helpful is winning these Georgia runoffs. But
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: then I hate to say it, but it would, it
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: would also help. I think if Brian Kemp survived his
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: primary challenge, that's going to come. I mean, like we
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: need some anti-Trump Republicans to start winning so that they're
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: all not living in fear of a primary challenge from
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: a Trump-backed candidate. Otherwise, the guy is just going to
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: hold a grip on the party, a grip on Fox News,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: a grip on Newsmax, and we're stuck in this cycle.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I think we have to beat them all. I mean,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I don't, I just, like, there's no, I, look, I
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: know how hard the House is going to be in 2022.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know if everyone realizes this, but it was
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: going to be hard no matter what. Now with redistricting,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: it's going to be even harder. But like, I don't
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: see an option besides winning the house or holding the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: house in 2022, because if like, you know, I have
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: been saying that a lot of the concern over Donald
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Trump successfully overturning this election, um, is, is a little
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: overhyped because we have Democrats in all the right positions
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: because we control the house of representatives because we control
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: the governorships in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Like that's the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: only reason that I felt safe in, in, in saying
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: that Joe Biden is going to be president. If we
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: have a Republican House in 2024, not only do I
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: think they'll have impeached Joe Biden by then, they'll just
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: make up some reason to do that. But then in
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: the 2024 election, if the Republican candidate or if it's
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Trump pulls what Trump pulled again, it goes to Congress
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: and now you have a Republican House. And do we
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: really think the Republican House is going to play by
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the rules after what happened this time? I don't think so.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think we should not confuse the fact that
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: this coup will fail and that its instigators are silly
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: and buffoonish from how dangerous this moment is. I don't
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: think I think that that's sort of trivial. I think
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: we all get that. But then I do think then
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: there's this problem. It's like, OK, well, what do we do?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Well, we know what we need to do. We need
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: to win elections. All right.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: And the problem is we just ran a national election
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: in which we won. We won by 4.5 percent of
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: the vote. But given where our voters are, given some
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: of the inherent anti-democratic aspects of the Senate, it was
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: not enough to win the Senate. And we still managed
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: to lose some House seats. And those fundamental problems are
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: not going anywhere. We're not abolishing the Electoral College. in
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: the next four years, we're not getting rid of the Senate.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: We're going to have some really bad redistricting that's going
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: to hurt us because we did so poorly in legislatures.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: And so to me, like, I do think we have
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: to split these things into kind of two big, difficult conversations.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: One is how do we win inside of democracy? And
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: the other is how do we preserve democracy and fight
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: for it against a party that has abandoned it? I
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: no longer am interested in stories about how Republicans behind
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: the scenes say they don't really mean it.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: No, you do mean it. This is it.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: You're not in private saying that you don't support what
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: you support. Actually, in private, you're pretending to hold a
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: set of beliefs that nothing in your politics, nothing in
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: your public statements is true. You're pretending to not believe
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: it while everything you do subverts democracy. You know, Ted
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Cruz is not putting on a show. Ted Cruz is
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: doing what he thinks is in his best interest. He's
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: not doing it. He's not going above and beyond. He's
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: not saying he wants to argue before the Supreme Court
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: because he's afraid of Trump. He's chosen a side.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: He's seen where his people are going so that he
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: can lead them.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: What they learned from Trump is that shame is not
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: a useful attribute to have in politics. So they are
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: all shameless. You cannot shame these people. All we do is, oh,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: these Republicans got to learn better. We're just going to
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: put pressure on them. We're not putting any pressure on them.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Pressure is not going to change their behavior. Shame is
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: not going to change their behavior anymore. They have to
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: be beaten. We did win this time and he tried
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: to steal it, but it was enough. it was a
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: big enough margin that he was not able to steal it.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: And we, the only thing we can do in the
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: future is to beat these people. And like you said,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: like we were not going to eliminate the electoral college
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: before then, before we beat them, we're not going to
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: fix gerrymandering before we beat them. We're not going to
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: fix the Senate before we beat them. All roads lead
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: back to beating them in elections. There's nothing else.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And, and I would say too, like the next,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: the conversation we should have is obviously not about shame and,
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: But I do think we should be talking, and I
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: do think it's a much longer term challenge than even
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: what we'll have to do electorally to keep the House
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: and to keep the White House. And it is like,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: all right, they're shameless. They're mercenaries. They're doing what they
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: think is in their interest. We need to talk about
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: the fact that they don't view defending democracy as in
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: their interest, right? That that propaganda has so thoroughly taken hold, right?
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Like when you say like they don't respond to shame,
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: like what does that mean? It means that like virtue, integrity,
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: these qualities no longer matter in our politics.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Being honest.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Caring about the basic civic ideas that are the bedrock
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: of our country. They're not important anymore, which tells us something,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: which is like, like it or not, yeah, our institutions
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: may have been just strong enough to get us through this, right?
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: But like this fascistic way of thinking, like it's taken
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: hold of a lot of people. It's taken hold of
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: a lot of people in this country and it's really,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: really dangerous. And we have to talk about those incentives
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: and those levers now. Because this will get worse unless
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: we start looking upriver, when we start looking at propaganda,
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: what Facebook is doing, what Fox News is doing, and
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: actually having conversations about how we combat it, how we
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: don't just lament it, but we actually combat it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: So there's one more play they're going to try here.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: lost all their legal challenges, couldn't pressure any Republican election
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: officials to illegally refuse certification of the results, couldn't find
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: any Republican state legislatures to illegally send their own slate
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: of electors. So now they're looking at January 6th, which
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: is when the electoral votes are officially tallied in Congress
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and read aloud by none other than the vice president,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence. So that's fun. Here's the rules. If a
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: member of the House and a senator together both raise
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: an objection to a slate of electors, Both houses of
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Congress have to vote on whether to reject or accept
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: the objection. Of course, already a few House Republicans. No
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: surprise there. They're all fucking yahoos. And a few senators
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: like Ron Johnson of Wisconsin have said they may object.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Like this is. It's not going to work because Democrats
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: have a majority in the House and will vote down
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: the objection. And there are now enough senators in the
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Senate who have said that Joe Biden is president, enough
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Republican senators, that there's also a pro-democracy majority in the Senate.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So it's not going to work. But it is interesting
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: to me that it's now going to put every single
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Republican member of the House and the Senate on record
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: as whether you were for or against the coup attempt.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And so the ones who are trying to hide, like
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio... but it's doing the hand wave thing. They'd
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: be like, Oh, it's forget about the coup. It's the,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it's the left-wing outrage. That's a problem. Left-wing outrage about
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the coup. That's the real problem.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: I'm not taking this beyond Twitter. I've said what I
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: have to say on Twitter. I'm not going to bring
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: it to our podcast. Didn't not look, didn't a couple
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: of Democrats object and Bush v. Gore, and they couldn't
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: find a democratic Senator to do it. And it kind
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: of went by the wayside.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: In 2004, they did it with Kerry in Ohio too.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: But like, this is madness. And it'll go nowhere. It'll
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: go nowhere.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: And this time they'll have a senator, but it'll still
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: go nowhere.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: This is drink the Kool-Aid. This is their moment. All
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: of them will be on record. Oh, should we call
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it the Kool-Aid with a P? That works. Hey, hey.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: The Kool-Aid.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Hey, how nice, Tommy.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Thanks, guys. I don't know if it's a good or
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: a bad thing to have all these guys on the record.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: As for or against the coup attempt? I'd like to
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: think it's a good thing. I don't either. Because maybe
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: we could hold it against them in elections. I don't
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: know anymore. I don't know anymore.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be sad. I think we're
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: going to be sad. I think it's going to be
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a sad moment.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Every Trump thing starts as zany, but then he just
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: goes all in on every maddening, insane, right-wing conspiracy theory
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: that he latches onto. And here we are. I don't know.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: It's like when you say something ironically, and then all
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: of a sudden it's just something you say.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Yes. You know what I mean? All of a sudden
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: you're typing. LOL.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a really sad moment
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: because like one of the institutions that have stood up
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: really well during the coup attempt is the judiciary. And
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: we've seen, you know, liberal judges, conservative judges, Trump judges
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: all throw out these challenges. But at the end of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the day, selecting a president comes down to Congress. And
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: you're right, we're going to get a bunch of Republican
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: House members who object. Who cares about them? They may
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: get Ron Johnson or Ted Cruz or Rand Paul or
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: one of the buck nuts in the Senate to join them.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: And then both houses are going to have to vote,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: which means that in the future, if they do this,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: it's not going to matter what the courts do, if
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: the courts throw them out, because it'll ultimately come down
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: to the January 6th moment in Congress. And what if
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: you have a majority in Congress one of these days
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: that says, yeah, we're going to throw out some, we're
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: going to throw out some electors and overturn the results.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: That's all it takes. That's all it takes is just
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Congress doing that.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Bit by bit.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the damage that the coup attempt is
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: already doing beyond our Republican politicians. The Texas Republican Party
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: responded to the Supreme Court decision by calling for secession.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: That's true. That actually happened. Alex Jones said that Joe Biden, quote,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: will be removed one way or another. Sidney Powell, a
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: former member of Trump's legal team, joined other MAGA lunatics
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: in calling on the president to suspend the Electoral College
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: and set up military tribunals. Many of these lunatics descended
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: on Washington over the weekend where right-wing power military groups
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: like the Proud Boys attacked police, counter protesters, and defaced
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: two historic black churches. Four people were stabbed and 23 arrested. Like,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: where do we go from here?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: These are fascists. These people are fascists. And these are
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: their brown shirts. And they're storming around through Washington. And
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: it is incredibly scary and unsettling. And where we go
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: from here feels uncertain to me. I hope we can
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: get through inauguration and like Joe Biden will be in
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: office and maybe these people can recede to the back.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: But I do think it's going to it's going to
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: take a conscious choice for all of us, the media politicians,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: to stop covering Donald Trump like he's the national narrator
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: of all U.S.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Events.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: We cannot center this man in our politics for four
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: more years and rid ourselves of like the cancer of
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: this MAGA thing. fascist mindset. We have to try to
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: move on from him somehow. We have to get serious
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: and actually focus on things that matter. Otherwise, we're going
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: to be back here in four years and he's going
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: to be the GOP nominee and God knows what will happen.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: It was such a split screen moment for me over
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: the weekend and just prepping for today's pod is on
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: one hand you have the vaccine development and distribution and
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: it's this it's this example of the entire world working
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: together scientists health care workers truckers politicians got like everyone
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: coming together to do something good and try to get
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: people vaccinated and then you have these fucking assholes descending
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: on washington just trying to burn everything down just trying
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: to burn it all down like these people are awful just.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Awful yeah and i do think We need to stop
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: trying to convince ourselves that because they're silly, because they
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: write things on their butts, because Sidney Powell is a
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: bad lawyer, because Rudy Giuliani's face melted. We need to
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: stop taking comfort in the fact that they're silly because
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: every dangerous, violent, revanchist, anti-democratic movement is silly in some
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: sense if they weren't dumb, if they weren't buffoonish, they
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: wouldn't support that movement. And so we should just keep
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: in mind that some of the most dangerous and reactionary
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: forces that have had huge impact on this country, that
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: have pulled this country backwards in our history, were.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Geniuses.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: They didn't have to be. Because when you employ violence,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: when you introduce the specter of violence across our politics,
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: it can warp things and change things without you having
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: to be very sophisticated. And I just think that requires...
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know what to do with that information, but
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: it's just something we all should keep in mind. Don't
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: take comfort in their stupidity. We just can't.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: It's still an open question of how big their numbers are,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and part of this is making sure the numbers don't
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: get bigger. You're not going to do anything about the
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: assholes who descended on DC, but there's other people who
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: could fall into that kind of trap. And you want
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: to avoid that. I mean, like there was a new
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: CBS poll out over the weekend. You know, it gives
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: the usual numbers. Only 18 percent of Trump voters think
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Biden's the legitimate winner of the election. Forty nine percent
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: think Trump should refuse to concede even if the Electoral
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: College votes for Biden, which they will. And 75 percent
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: think Republicans in Congress should try to keep Trump in power.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: But then I saw at the end, the last question
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: was 40 percent of Trump voters believe that if Biden
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: is the president. that Trump and his supporters should work
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: together with Biden on making progress, which was surprising because
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like these same people who think the election is
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: not legitimate, you know, 60% of them think never work
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: with Biden on anything. So that's still a majority, but
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: that 40% might be where you begin, you know, because
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: that's the only option we have at this point.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I also just think it's interesting too. It's important too,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: because what it does also show you is that these
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: are in some sense, performative reactions, even to pollsters.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: We're all pundits now. We're all on a team.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: And that's a good thing in the sense that people
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: are saying things they don't totally mean. It's a dangerous
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: thing in which beliefs themselves are now how you demonstrate
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: your fealty, which means nobody is going to be telling
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: the truth. And, you know, like, sorry, I'm going to
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: do it. Vonnegut, the quote, which I think about all
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: the time these days is, you know, you are what
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: you pretend to be. So be careful what you pretend
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: to be.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: The difference between what people say and what they think
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: is it doesn't really matter. Because what people say and
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: what they perform is what becomes our politics.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going to follow suit here. So I was reading
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Obama's book. And then I started reading an old book
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I had from college from Václav Havel, who was a playwright, writer, thinker,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: political leader in the Czech Republic. And he talks about
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: how every country, every culture, every society has these sort
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: of poles, right? There's always sort of a fascistic camp.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: And there's always a more hopeful camp. And it is
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: up to the leaders to to decide which one of
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: those you awaken. And Trump has spent four to six
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: years awakening the scary, fascistic, right-wing camp. And the next Republican,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: like Ronald Reagan was awful. He did immeasurable damage to
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: this country, but he didn't do that. And we barely
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: survived that. And the next set of Republican leaders better
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: be pretty goddamn careful about whether or not they decide
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: to reawaken those fascistic forces. Because right now those people Or,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: you know, they're in D.C. over the weekend saying, chanting,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: destroy the GOP because they won't go along with a
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: coup attempt. So, yeah, that shit will bite you back.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Well, and, you know, you talked about future Republican presidents,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: but it's also this is this was part of Joe
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Biden's message in the campaign. Talking about what you want
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: to project to the country and what kind of country
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: that you want to have, you know, like. And do
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of optimism that Joe Biden and
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell are going to sit down and hammer out
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: some deals together?
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: No, I don't.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: But I think Biden's message was bigger than I'm going
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: to work with Republicans in Congress. It's about, you know,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: a battle for the soul of the country and healing
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: the nation. And I think projecting that image to the country,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: it matters. It matters what a president says and does.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: And oh, by the way, let's add to the list.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: As he projects that vision to the country, he also,
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: perhaps without a Senate, hopefully with a Senate that's incredibly divided, regardless,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: he has to deliver. And that's like the single most
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: important thing he can do to save the country from this,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: which is deliver.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Well- That's all we have for today. And everyone, check
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: out Pod Save the World for the Big Obama interview
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: this week. And we'll talk to you guys on Thursday. Bye, everybody.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Bye, y'all. Bye.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somenator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Quinn Lewis, Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: and Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: videos every week.