Latest / CEOs and ABCs / Stacey Pool (Ziggi's Coffee, Vail Resorts, Noodles & Company) won't apologize for her ambition, but she won't sugar coat what it cost her either #053

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Stacey Pool (Ziggi's Coffee, Vail Resorts, Noodles & Company) won't apologize for her ambition, but she won't sugar coat what it cost her either #053 · CEOs and ABCs

• 0:00
  Kevin Rice: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting, wins and fails, and everything in between. I'm your host, Kevin Rice. Here's today's episode. Stacy Poole won't apologize for her ambition, but she won't sugarcoat what it costs her, either. Today's guest is Stacy Poole, Chief Growth Officer at Ziggy's Coffee. Stacy's climb to the C suite has been extremely impressive. But as a working mom, her ambition is often met with judgment, and not just from her peers. When it comes to motherhood, she can be her harshest critic. Let's get into it. Stacey, thank you so much for being here.
• 0:34
  Stacey Pool: It's nice to see you, Kevin.
• 0:36
  Kevin Rice: It's great to see you, too. I'm so excited to chat with you. I had the pleasure of working with you while you were the chief Marketing Officer at Noodles and Company. And now we get to kind of unpack what was life like behind the scenes. So just really excited for this conversation.
• 0:52
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, I'm excited, too. I told you before that I've admired this podcast, so I feel very honored to be here.
• 0:58
  Kevin Rice: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. It's certainly a passion project for me, and I appreciate it. Appreciate all the feedback and sentiment that we get along the way. So, Stacy, you've had a genuinely very impressive career, going from Vail Resorts to being the chief Marketing officer at Noodles and Company, and now you're the chief Growth officer at Ziggy's Coffee. Without necessarily, like, going through the, you know, the resume, like, how did you get to where you are today and kind of, what. What's driven you through all of these chapters?
• 1:30
  Stacey Pool: That's a great question. I think it's been a very unconventional path for me. I career in it, then went to Vail Resorts in a more of a, like, technology capacity, more like digital product. The CMO at the time at Vail Resorts was an amazing leader and believed very strongly in my capabilities. And she's like, at some point, this was probably about 12 years ago, she said, hey, I'd love you to learn the commercial side of the business and run our Epic Pass division. Which I was. I was more of like a digital person up until that point, but she really invested in me and my ability to learn marketing because I. That's not my background. And so we did a lot of career planning. She's. She actually gave me the business with support from her. So I started to lead the Epic Past business. It was probably about 2015. So I was running both the digital side and the commercial side of the business, which was really interesting because I still got to have some. Some area that I was felt I was really strong in as, like, a safe bed for me while I was learning another part of the business. But then what ended up happening is I was able to be the chief of staff for the CEO there. And that's really where it accelerated my career, because it gave me an opportunity to learn other parts of the business that just, like, kind of, I would say, reinforced the stuff I had been learning along the way and allowed me to go back into the business in a larger marketing capacity because I had more context about the broader business. And so that was really the catalyst for moving into the marketing space. And then moving to Noodles Co. Was intentional. It wasn't about the title. It was, to me, it was more just about the impact that I could have on an organization. And the restaurant space is just really fun. You and I both know that. But it was two months before COVID so I definitely got dropped into a new role as an executive, a new industry, all while trying to navigate Covid, which was really super interesting. And then I've done a little bit of, you know, right turns and left turns along the way, but being back in restaurants has been really, really fun again. And coffee is just super fun to. To be able to sell. So it's been a. A very wild ride, but, like, also, like, really fulfilling to put all of my strengths together into, like, one bucket and be able to use them in different ways.
• 3:53
  Kevin Rice: I noticed your new title is Chief Growth Officer, and from what you're describing along your career journey, that kind of makes a lot of sense. Working alongside the CEO, learning the commercial side of the business, and, you know, including all of that with your marketing experience, is that kind of the natural evolution as, like, this growth officer role that brings all of that experience together?
• 4:16
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, I would answer that in two ways. One is that it very much being that I've worked in franchise systems before, and Ziggy's is primarily a franchise system, the coming in was to be able to take the learnings that I've either I have or I've observed in my. The past couple of jobs and be able to apply it or at least provide input into how we can drive growth here from a footprint standpoint. So expanding this, the volume of stores that we have, but also from a transactional perspective, which is what marketing's job is, is to bring traffic into the stores. So that's one thing is being able to bring all those things together that I've learned, learned over the last seven to 10 years. The other part of it, though, that I am not a secretive of is I would love to be a CEO at some point. And this felt like the natural extension from, hey, you've been a chief Marketing officer, you have a lot of exposure and experience in different parts of the business. Let's bring that together. And then hopefully that's the next step in then progressing my career into a CEO at some point. So it's a personal ambition, but then also a professional ambition to kind of combine those two worlds.
• 5:26
  Kevin Rice: I love that you're not shy about that and you're just putting it out there and putting, you know, a stake in the sand and saying, like, this is where I'm gonna go. I think that's fantastic.
• 5:36
  Stacey Pool: Yeah. I think it's often perceived as, like, saying you want to be a CEO is just maybe about the money or the title. For me, it's not that at all. CEO to me is like, if my legacy could be the impact that I have on people. And being a CEO allows you to have an impact in a broader sense. That, to me, is what motivates me. So I think everybody has a right to say they want to achieve something, but I think it's maybe also the why behind it. And my why is very different probably than a lot of people, because my why is not driven by title or financials. It's that I. I want to leave a legacy on the people around me. That's just something that motivates me, and I feel like I can do that if I move into that type of role.
• 6:23
  Kevin Rice: So as a working female executive and mother, what are some of the, like, the pressures or judgments that you've faced in your career?
• 6:32
  Stacey Pool: I think the biggest judgment that I faced is not being home by 5pm like, the expectation is that. Is that it's the mom. Like, why are you. Why aren't you home? Like, why are you working till 7 o'? Clock? It's like, because I enjoy it. I think that that's a big one. Is that people. And I don't know if I. I have to be careful of saying, would you ask a man that question? Because maybe somebody would. I can't make that assumption that they wouldn't, but I definitely, very much so, get judged for my hours, the hours that I work. That's probably the number one.
• 7:09
  Kevin Rice: Is that like an external judgment, like comments you hear from other people, that more of an internal dialogue?
• 7:15
  Stacey Pool: No, it's more external. Whether it's colleagues saying it or just acquaintances, My. My friends know me well enough to not say those things because they understand what my ambitions are, but know it is very much more external. I don't feel that guilty anymore like I used to of working later because I know when and how I need to be present more effectively with my kids than I did probably 10 years ago, and where and how they need me. Um, but no, it's more external. That's probably the biggest judgment that I get. You know, the emotional side is interesting because I think that often there's judgment on passion from a woman becoming emotional versus it being where, like, you're literally just passionate about what you're doing. And so passion for me turns into like, she's an intense leader. Um, and I think that, yeah, I would say, yes, I am an intense leader. And I don't. I'm not. I'm proud of that. Like, I love my intensity. It's gotten me to where I am and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And it's. Nobody that's worked for me would say it's intensity that leads to, like, discipline or anger or ineffectiveness. It's because I care so deeply. And I'm actually very proud of my intensity because I do care deeply about the people. I care deeply about my family. I care deeply about the work. I just care super deeply. And so I think that that's the other thing is, like, I don't know. Would. Would people say that intensity for a man looks the same way as it does for a woman? Probably. I don't know. You know, I think times are a little different. But I do think that probably my intensity gets judged differently than, you know, a male counterpart. But I would say the main one is poor. Probably the judgment around, like, you need to be home and present for your family at 5pm and I just don't agree with that.
• 9:10
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. If those been you've actually received comments like that or is it just looks that you're kind of inferring.
• 9:16
  Stacey Pool: I've never had people say to me, how does your family feel that you're still here?
• 9:20
  Kevin Rice: Wow.
• 9:22
  Stacey Pool: Like, if they're fine with it, like that's an agreement that we've made is like, that's okay. Yeah, they know I still love them. I'm present when I need to be present. Like, there's nothing wrong with it. So. Yeah, no, absolutely, I've received that.
• 9:36
  Kevin Rice: Well, I can tell you, even during the time I was a single father, like, nobody ever made that Comment to me, nobody ever said, like, shouldn't you be home with your kids? So I think there is absolutely a double standard. Right. That's not a conversation that, you know, the, the men in the workforce that I was around, like, that wasn't a conversation. In fact, it was very much celebrated that you are hustling, grinding. You know, you're doing what you need to do to grow in your career and help the company grow. Um, so, yeah, I, I'd say you're probably right that there is still very much a double standard on that.
• 10:11
  Stacey Pool: Yeah. Yeah, there probably is. It's good for you to hear. For me to hear you say that, Kevin, because I don't know if it's asked of somebody else, what would you
• 10:19
  Kevin Rice: say to, like, other women who have similar ambitions as you and, you know, are trying to figure out how to, like, be present when they need to be, but still, like, invest in themselves and grow in their career? What could you share with them that you've learned along the way?
• 10:34
  Stacey Pool: I would say, and I've told many women this is that don't fight it, just own it. Like, I used to fight this ambition and be like, oh, I'm going to change. I'm going to stop working hard. I'm going to go home at 5. And I didn't enjoy that. It wasn't fulfilling to me. Once I let that go and was like, no, actually, this is what I want to do. I love doing it. I'm curious. I love to learn. It's what energizes me. It's what motivates me. It was like, once I let that go, it was like, that's when my career skyrocketed. Was like, no, this is who I am. It's just who I am and embrace it. So I just say, own it.
• 11:13
  Kevin Rice: Where in your career journey did you start to have a family? Because you have a. A son that's a sophomore in college and a daughter that's a junior in high school.
• 11:22
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, spot on. Yeah. So it was very early in my career. I was actually at Nike and in, In Portland. I was young. I was probably. And I'm not afraid to share my age. Another thing that women should be very, very confident about is sharing their age. But I. It was probably when I was like, 30. I think it was 30 and 33, so very young in my career. But we, we. We were in Portland for about six years when both my husband and I were at Nike and we decided to move back to Colorado in order to be back near family and from two perspectives. One is that we needed help. Like I knew that my career and his career were going to continue to grow and we needed that help. But it was really important for us to be, for our kids to surround themselves with great role models. And we, and my parents were here and we wanted them to be closer to their grandparents. And it like, it's so cliche, but it absolutely is a village. When you have ambitions, when you desire to grow or expand your capabilities or expand your responsibilities, you have to have help. And so we knew that. We knew that and so that was the reason that we moved back to Colorado. But yeah, it's very different now having teenagers or even a little bit older than teenagers, but it still requires a village no matter what age they're at.
• 12:44
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, absolutely. Like my parents live nearby and they've been part of my kids lives ever since they were born and you know, wouldn't be able to do it without friends and family and support.
• 12:57
  Stacey Pool: You're spot on.
• 12:58
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. How was that transition for you? Like how did it affect your, your career? Was it easy for you? Like, for me personally, like, stepping into a fatherhood role, like that was outside of my comfort zone, just didn't really come naturally to me. So I'm curious, was this something that like, was a big transition for you and how did you adjust?
• 13:16
  Stacey Pool: I'm pretty open about this and probably get judged a lot on my comments around this, but I. Parenting, motherhood has never been natural for me. It's been very difficult. And it's been this constant question if I'm a selfish mother. I would say it that way versus I, I think that some people, maybe it comes naturally or some people are just not honest about it. I think there's part of that. But parenting didn't really become a lot better for me until my kids got a little bit older. It was. And I, I think I would even say like I, I do have a lot of probably guilt that I'll have to work through at some point around my engagement as a mom when they were younger because I think I often buried myself in work because I didn't know how to be a great mom. I didn't know how to engage and my husband's very natural. Thank God that one of us is natural at it. Thank God. But I think that I often would, you know, stay later at work because I didn't know how to do dress up or how to, to, you know, I mean, I know how to read a book, but when they want to play pretend, it's like that stuff doesn't excite me. And so it was really, really hard, actually. Probably up until the age of. This is probably. I shouldn't say this out loud, but maybe 12. But what's happened that's been really interesting is that we've almost. My husband and I have almost swapped roles a little bit because now it's becoming very natural to me. And he's still a great dad, but he was so engaged and so good when they were younger. I'm really good at this age, which is like, how do I build, build great humans? It just goes back to the legacy. It's like if I can leave a lasting impact on the type of human they're growing up to be and how they treat people and how they become an amazing worker or how they, you know, invest in learning, like that, to me is what's fulfilling. So I would say I'm a lot better parent and I love it a lot more now than I did, you know, the first 12 years of their lives.
• 15:19
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that because I. I had a similar experience where I probably buried myself in my work for maybe different, but similar, like, personal reasons. Like, I got a lot of validation in my career. And being somebody who kind of grew up with like, maybe not low self esteem, but not high self esteem, I found other ways to get validation and, you know, whether it was like sports and grades in school and then eventually in my career, like, I was really good at it. I was very, like, logically brain and that allowed me to succeed and perform. I was very driven. And so this became like, you know, flywheel of sorts where it would just reinforce the validation that I was looking for. And then if I would go home, like, I wasn't getting that with my kids and I was feeling like I was failing. And so I just wanted to go away from the areas where I felt like I was underperforming and lean into the areas where I was and that was in my career. So I can kind of relate to, like, that being a place to, you know, like, feel like you're good enough.
• 16:22
  Stacey Pool: Thank you for sharing that. That is an awesome reflection. And I would say it's probably similar in that, like, growing up in my household because my sister had a lot of health issues throughout my childhood, like, it was very much focused on keeping her healthy, which then you're always trying to find your place. And I think work was my place. I was really good at it. I really love leading teams. I love leading people. That was very natural to me. So I did lean More probably towards the thing that I felt that I was really good at and where I could get a community, because I just didn't have a strong community growing up. And my community still remains my safe place. My work community still does. My best friends are from work, so I do. I think that's. I'm glad you shared that, because I think that's a good way to say it is like, it feels like I'm really good at this part of my life, which is probably why I gravitate towards it a little bit more.
• 17:21
  Kevin Rice: I admire an unapologetically ambitious professional, and for you, that drive is taking you all the way to the C suite. But as a parent, ambition can come at a cost.
• 17:32
  Stacey Pool: You know, I would actually answer that, that I think my husband's had to make more sacrifices than I have. But I would also say that there was always this relationship and communication that was like, who's going to lean into the family and who's going to lean into the work? But it was because we both were motivated by two very different things. He loves taking care of the family through doing stuff for us. You know, my love language is definitely acts of service. So he. He very much leans into that, and he gets tremendous fulfillment from it. I get tremendous fulfillment from my career, but also being able to financially provide for my family. And we've learned where we've had to sacrifice. And I think he's given up probably more than I have because he's just an unbelievable human. I probably have had to sacrifice. Maybe. Maybe I just question a little bit. Probably the going back to the point about being a good mom, it's maybe not sacrifice, but it's just this constant internal challenge in my head of like, am I. Am I doing a good enough job? So maybe it's more. That's the way I feel. And he may have fe. May feel like that he's sacrificing more. So it's just a different maybe definition of sacrifice.
• 18:50
  Kevin Rice: Sure. Yeah. And when you're thinking about those feelings of not feeling good enough as a mother, like, is that because you didn't. You feel like maybe there were periods where you didn't spend enough time together or you weren't present for them? Like, what is it that's underneath that for you?
• 19:04
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, I definitely missed baseball games. I've missed tennis matches. I've missed shows. I never went to parent teacher conferences. But, you know, I remember one time my daughter just said to me, like, you're doing great, mom. But you have this feeling of that because you're missing those things that you're. You. You're not doing a good enough job. My husband never missed that. But I do. I do think that. That there is now. If my. If you ask my kids, it would be like they don't think I did anything wrong. It was just me being hard on myself, you know, because I. My daughter, like my daughter, my relationship is very, very strong. And so I probably. It's just me in my head saying that I could have done a little bit better.
• 19:50
  Kevin Rice: We are our worst critics, right?
• 19:53
  Stacey Pool: Totally. Totally. Yeah.
• 19:55
  Kevin Rice: But now you look at your kids, and they're growing up, and your son is off into the world starting his career. Your daughter's almost there. She's probably in her toughest year of high school being her junior year. And they had the opportunity to see you excel in your career and see what working hard for something looks like. That's really important lesson that you were able to give to them. And so hopefully that gives you some solace to set aside the guilt. Because, you know, you built in a very, very impressive career, and you helped so many people along the way, and they got to see that, you know? And so, like, when I look back on some of the years where I wasn't available, I remind myself that, like, I am showing them what this looks like to build a life of their own. And, you know, more is caught than taught. So the parental guilt comes up, but hopefully you can set it aside. And knowing that, like, you set a
• 20:55
  Stacey Pool: great example for them, I think that it's that. And I think what I'm also observing about them is that the type of people that they surround themselves with, the friends that they choose, the partner that they choose, is they're recognizing the importance of having the partnership, the healthy friendships, because there's no way that you can do what you can do what you're trying to do. There's no way I could have had the ambition without the community surrounding me. And I think that's the other thing, is that, yes, they see my hard work and they see success in that hard work, but they also see their dad giving everything he has to give to help it all work. It has to be that joint partnership, which to me is a healthy. They just create. We created a healthy environment for them. And don't get me wrong, that that sounds like it's perfection. Not at all. Like, I'm very transparent on the areas or years where it wasn't perfection. But we've both worked hard to create this environment where they see that you can have healthy relationships. You can have healthy partnerships and be ambitious, but you got to have that partnership to do it.
• 22:05
  Kevin Rice: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I look back and, you know, I was a single father for a couple years raising very young kids, and then, you know, when I got into a relationship with my current partner, she really helped me see that, like, some of the challenges they were struggling with started with me. And it's like, if they're having meltdowns or tantrums, then I need to look at myself and look at my own behavior because they're just learning from me. Like, I can't blame anyone else because, like, I am, you know, who they learn from. They see it every day from me. So, yeah, our. Our partners, you know, give us support. They also act as a mirror for us and help us kind of see what our, you know, what we're missing.
• 22:43
  Stacey Pool: They do. You're spot on. Yep.
• 22:45
  Kevin Rice: Hi, Kevin here. If you're enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who's working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I'd really love it if you could share this episode with them. It's one of the best ways you can help us and help more leaders build their careers in a way that they're proud of without missing the moments that matter most. Most as working parents. We have a whole separate life behind our title. There's some seasons where work asks more for us and some seasons where work needs to be set aside so we can prioritize our family. What does that look like for you?
• 23:15
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, I think there's. I would kind of view it as, like, three seasons that have impacted me. One was there was a season at Vail Resorts where I think I had it in my head that I was. I. I had to be perfect, but I. That I was also perfect and that I had done nothing wrong, because I just, up to that point in my career, had never received constructive feedback in a very effective way. And I had. There was a moment where we were coming off of the actual ski season, and the results that I was meant to deliver were not performing. And I had received some very hard feedback from one of my. Or from the cmo, the. My leader at that time. And in that seasonal moment, it, like, dropped me to my knees. I mean, like, I had never received hard feedback. I didn't know how to handle hard feedback. Immediately went home, no joke, prepared my resume that evening, started applying for jobs, because I was like, wait, I've never received this feedback. I'm a. I'm a perfect worker. I do I work as hard as I possibly can to do everything as best as I can, and you're telling me that it wasn't good enough. And I would say that seasonal moment was pivotal in my personal and professional life, because at that moment I realized if I'm going to be a great worker, if I'm going to be a great mom, I have to work on myself because there's no possible way that I'm going to encounter. I'm. I should say, I'm. There are many more opportunities to encounter tough feedback, and I've got to be able to navigate them. And that's where I really did the work on myself, where it was like, what's important to me, what's my value system? Where do I want to work, where do I want to be to be effective in this thing called life? And it wasn't a perfection. I was perfectionistic. But it was like, I have to be able to ride the waves of challenges, challenging situations, challenging conversations, celebrate when I've done great, but also recognize that I can always be doing better. And that was a really, really important point in my personal life where I worked on myself to just be a better person and a better leader. So that's. That's like season number one. Season number two was when I became the chief of staff for the CEO at Vail Resorts. And that was a moment where we as a family decided that my husband would stop working and I would really lean into my career. And that was an interesting season because it was like the dynamics changing where I was like, you know, skyrocketing. He was trying to figure out how to be present and home when working for the last 20 years. And so there was a really interesting change in dynamic of the way that our roles shifted, the way he provided value, the way I provided value, and making sure that we both felt like, like we were providing value personally and professionally. That was like season number two, which was an interesting dynamic within our marriage and our kids lives, but also on a professional level. The season number three was just recently. This was about maybe right before Ziggy's about four months ago, where I was really, really struggling at work. Probably the hardest point my entire career was I was not in the healthiest of environments for me personally. And my son comes home from college and he was like, you're done. You need to leave this job. You're done. He's like, I don't care if we have to take college loans. I don't have to care. You're. I mean, I don't care you're done with this job. And that was a seasonal moment where I was like, like, wow. First of all, I'd raised a child to be like, no more and confident in saying that to his mom, which demonstrated to me that we've created a safe place for him to do that. But then also it was like, okay, like, he's telling me I need to recognize and care for myself when I haven't been caring for myself, which made me also realize of how to catch that sooner in the future of where I need to be prioritizing me and my family, sometimes maybe more than I am. And so that's a good awareness that I'm going to really try to keep in, you know, the forefront of my mind going forward is when is enough enough? And I think that I had overlooked that. And he was. It was good for him to come home and say no more.
• 27:08
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, good for him.
• 27:10
  Stacey Pool: Yeah. Yeah. It was an eye opener for sure.
• 27:13
  Kevin Rice: Could talk about critical feedback.
• 27:14
  Stacey Pool: Exactly. Exactly.
• 27:17
  Kevin Rice: Let's go back to that season one. So you're Vail Resorts. You get some difficult feedback. You know, my, my immediate reaction is to get defensive. And I'm constantly watching for that, like, like defensiveness and like, okay, it's showing up again. How do I just relax into this and allow, you know, remember that feedback is a gift. And no matter how difficult it is, like, it's. It's an opportunity. You know, you can either go through something or you can grow through something. So I'm curious, how did you respond to that, you know, feedback from your boss?
• 27:49
  Stacey Pool: Oh, yeah. I mean, that getting defensive is like the definition of an amygdala hijack. Right? Like, it was a. An immediate hijack. Tears. And I just, I guess I'll say on the tear side is that women cry. Men usually get angry. They're same. They're just the same thing. Right? It's frustration, it's anger, it's disappointment in yourself, in the situation. But yeah, of course it was tears. Like I said, it was developing my resume easy immediately, but I would say after 24 hours, I was able to bring it down a little bit. Still frustrated, angry, but at least being able to have a productive conversation as a follow up. But I would say she navigated it beautifully because that's where it became her feedback of like, you can't grow if you don't work on yourself. Right. You can't have an amygdala hijack to this extent. Where it leads to resume building to a job application. It has to be where you recognize the hijack, understand what value did it trigger in you? Because that's all it is. It's like it hits you to your core. How do you pick up on, like, why did it hit me to my core? What did I, how did I show up through this situation? How can I give myself feedback? How can I give that other person feedback? So for me, it was like, I don't know, it was just such a critical moment for me to do that self exploration, to say, like, it can't happen like that again. Don't get me wrong, I get hijacked, but I know when I'm getting hijacked and I know usually the reason why for the hijack and I can come down from it faster than I was able to do before. So I would say that that's the, that was the self work is just usually it's triggering a core value. You and you got to recognize what that is and then figure out how you're going to navigate through that trigger on a core value.
• 29:33
  Kevin Rice: Did you go through any sort of courses or did you, how did you work on developing those EQ skills with this kind of newfound awareness about how you're responding to that feedback?
• 29:46
  Stacey Pool: Vail was exceptional at giving you the tools to learn about the what kind of leader you wanted to be, what mattered to you. And so it was really through a lot of the leadership programs there where I started to narrow it in and say, like, what is it that really matters to me? How do I want to show up as a leader? Which is ultimately just setting your brand, like, what kind of leader do you want to be? How do I want to receive feedback? How do I want to give feedback? How do I want to lead my team? That that's all the work that they do there. So a lot of it was really through the programs that they built and the investment that they made in me personally, but then also the ecosystem around me. So, yeah, it was the work, it was the programs that, that they provided that really helped me do that.
• 30:28
  Kevin Rice: And then as you started to develop those like, EQ skills, did you see that also benefiting yourself at home and in your relationship with your kids?
• 30:38
  Stacey Pool: Oh, definitely. And I would say that the biggest thing I learned during all of this over the last, whatever it's been seven to 10, 10 years, is like emotional regulation because your kids don't know how to emotionally regulate yet. But if you can regulate your emotions, it's going to lead to a place that's not effective for either one of you. So even if they're saying mean things and triggering you. Being able to understand that trigger and why it's triggering you and to like calm those emotions fast is going to lead to a much more productive conversation with your children too. Just, let's just be honest. Leading people at work is no different than leading your children. It really is not. They're going to trigger you, they're going to say mean things, you are going to say mean things. And then how is it that you show up after that or during? You know, it's no different. And so yeah, it's been a benefit for both home and at work.
• 31:31
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, the tantrums are just a little louder at home.
• 31:35
  Stacey Pool: Yes, yes. You still have to build trust. You still have to demonstrate that you care for them and that you want the best for them. Like it's still at the core of just leadership at home or at work is about showing up for people. And so yeah, I think that taught me the right ways to show up and how to be effective in those moments.
• 31:57
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I've written about this concept of a flywheel for building like or for creating connection at home. And the idea is that it's an acronym, it's the Spark flywheel. So it's safety, presence, attunement, rituals and celebration. And so you mentioned, you know, giving them safety and building trust. And you know, I think that those steps of creating connection work equally well with your kids at home and with your colleagues at work.
• 32:27
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, I know you. They absolutely do. I do a lot of similar things. I think my kids probably would say at the age of 12 they didn't need all the leadership lessons, but I think that it's got, it's benefited them to mature them, to get them even more aware of their, their emotions. They're pretty, I would, maybe I, I'm, I have a bias, but I would say both my kids have a pretty high EQ at this point.
• 32:48
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, you mentioned regulating yourself. Can you think back and share any sort of stories where you know, your kids were dealing with something and you had to regulate yourself? Like walk us through how you, after working on your emotional depth and awareness, how you handled the situation maybe differently than you would have before doing that inner work?
• 33:12
  Stacey Pool: In all honesty, like, because I did the work sooner and this is may come across as like, I'm a perfect parent. By no means. I'm saying that I haven't actually had a lot of run ins with my kids because of the fact that like when they try to trigger me, I'm like, let's come back to this, when you're ready to come back to this. But there was one recent one where my daughter and I were having. I would say my daughter and I are very, very close and we need that quality time together. And we hadn't had that. I was working a lot. This was probably about six months ago. I was working a lot. And in the not, like I said, not so healthy environment for me and probably not showing up as my best self at home either, she did something that very much triggered me and I, you know, between the two of us, we kind of lost it on each other, which does not happen very often in either case because we've learned to communicate. But in that moment, it was for me and her, it was both like stepping away from the situation. And I would say we actually did both did a great job of, of being like, why am I angry in this moment? Which just goes back to like, what's being triggered at your core? And what was being triggered at my core was how guilty I had felt that I was being absent when she needed me. And what was what she was feeling guilty about is that she had these high expectations for me and something that I could not achieve at that moment. So what ended up happening, we both had our triggered points, we came back together and it was this honest realization for both of us of like, I can't give you what you need right now. And her saying, I expect more from me, from you than you can give me. And it was just an apology. There's nothing literally that you can do is just be like, I'm trying the best I can right now and I can't give you what you need right now. And I need permission for you, I need permission from you to be okay with that. And it was like, okay, I understand and I'm being too hard on you, mom. Right. Like, so I think it's just this like, honestly honesty rather than blaming somebody else. It's like the honesty of like, I feel super guilty to my daughter that I can't be there for her, but it was just the reality of the situation. And having that honest conversation and apologizing and just saying you're doing the best you can is what. What we did.
• 35:24
  Kevin Rice: There's a lot of maturity in that conversation, especially to be having it with a 16 year old, 17 year old.
• 35:32
  Stacey Pool: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it.
• 35:35
  Kevin Rice: That's very impressive. So yet another thing that you should be very proud of, of being able to raise your daughter with that level of emotional awareness and ability to like, have a very mature Conversation at a relatively young age.
• 35:50
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, she's. She's amazing. She's a. She's an amazing young woman. I'm very proud. I would say that I'm very proud of the children that we have raised.
• 35:59
  Kevin Rice: Navigating our own path to success, both at work and at home. I think really comes down to having, like, a personal playbook. Do you have one? And like, what does that look like?
• 36:08
  Stacey Pool: My number one bit of advice, I would say that had the most impactful moment, at least the most impactful moment for me in my career was we were. I was at Outward Bound and most people would know what this. We were doing some leadership work with Vail Resorts at Outward Bound, and I was walking along this path and the person that was coaching us said to me, you're never going to be able to grow as a leader if you don't ask your help. And that to me was like, that moment I will never forget. Is that somebody. And because it changed everything. It was like, whether that's personal or professional help, you don't have to have all the answers. You won't have all the answers. Remain curious, ask for help. Recognize when you don't know and say you don't know. That vulnerability is really, really critical. But I would say that on the personal side, too, is saying to my husband, there's no way I could do this without your help or my parents or my children, whomever that is. So that's number one, is don't be too proud to ask for help. That's number one. The number two is that. And this is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I do not believe you can have it all. And what I mean by that is like, at moments in time, you have to sacrifice things. You have to sacrifice the baseball game, you have to sacrifice the parent teacher conferences. And on the other side of it, too, I've had to sacrifice meetings. I've had to sacrifice off sites that were not right for me to go to because I needed to be present for my family. It just happened last week where I missed a very important meeting to guide some strategic conversations because my daughter said, I'm coming to work, I need to talk. And I was like, great. And it's. And that's just, you know, I've picked up some pieces post that conversation at work that went. Went the direction I wish they wouldn't have gone. And I still would have never not gone downstairs and sat and had a coffee with her because she needed me. So I just think there's it's really an hour or it can be a week where no, you can't have it all. But you gotta prioritize what matters at that moment and just know that you're doing the very best you can and that's what's most important. And so that's the other thing that I've learned is like. And you, you say, like, I don't give enough myself enough grace. But you do have to give your grace self grace along the way. Which is probably last thing I'll say is. And I said this to her in that moment when she asked for help, which was, do you feel like you're doing the very best you can at this moment? And she was like, yes. And I said, that's good enough. Like that's good. And that's what I have to wake up and tell myself. Am I doing the very best I can in this moment? And my answer to that is often yes, and that's good enough right now. So that is the way that I give myself some grace is asking myself that question and teaching my kids to ask themselves that same question.
• 38:57
  Kevin Rice: No, that's, that's beautiful because you're, you're praising her effort and not necessarily her performance. And that's a big part of helping our kids develop self esteem.
• 39:06
  Stacey Pool: Right, right.
• 39:08
  Kevin Rice: So in order for, you know, any working mother or like, or father to be ambitious but still like find time to be present at home, there are some like, boundaries or practices or systems that you gotta like put in place. Are there any like rituals or boundaries that you've put in place that allow you to like, be in the right place depending the season?
• 39:29
  Stacey Pool: Interesting. I think it still comes down to seasonality. Like do I have any boundaries right now? No. And it's just, it is just what it is. Like we've all agreed that like right now I'm learning, I'm growing in my career. I'm in new, you know, new waters. And so I would say that I don't have great boundaries right now. And I'm actually kind of okay with that, Kevin, because of where I'm at in my career. But there have been other instances where my boundary might be where like this is my workout time. Oh, I have a good boundary for you. My family knows 1 to 3pm on the weekends is my nap time. Even before my children were born, I don't miss my naps on Saturdays.
• 40:09
  Kevin Rice: That sounds great.
• 40:10
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, they know it. Vacations are built around it. Weekends are built around it. Even when my kids were infants, that was my husband's time period for me to recover from a busy week, from a busy day. That is a boundary that is set. Even my friends text me on, like, hey, when you wake up from your nap, like, can you give me a ring? Like, is very much part of who I am is that I have to nap to recover. So that's a big, big boundary. And then, yeah, I think that's probably the main boundary is like, I'm kind of introverted, so I have to have that moment to just reset and re energize myself for a week. Because I give a lot to my people and to my. As much as I can to my family in a given week. So it's my recovery time.
• 40:55
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, well, you shared a boundary earlier, too, like when your daughter really needs you and called, you showed up for her.
• 41:00
  Stacey Pool: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's definitely true.
• 41:03
  Kevin Rice: Is there any, like, words that you could share with somebody who's maybe like a working mother or. And is kind of beating themselves up for missing bedtime or staying late at the office and, you know, choosing their career over potentially nights, you know, with their kids? What advice or guidance would you share with them?
• 41:21
  Stacey Pool: I probably would just go back to ask yourself, are you doing the best you can in this moment? And if you're not, if you. The answer to that is no, then put forward a sacrifice. I'm going to actually not do great at this. I'm going to be great at this one thing, and that's good enough. Um, and so for me, it's very much just like, that's a Grace question for me is like, am I doing the very best that I can in this moment? So that's my advice to anybody.
• 41:47
  Kevin Rice: A great way to frame up Grace. Well, Stacy, I really appreciated you coming on the show today. I want to celebrate, you know, the woman and the mother that you are, because you. I had the pleasure to work with you, and I always just thought you were such a fantastic leader. And, you know, you've also raised some amazing kids who've clearly got a lot of maturity and wisdom at a young age. So you're just a wonderful person and I appreciate you so much for being on the show today.
• 42:19
  Stacey Pool: It's been. Been such an honor, honestly. Kevin, and thank you for the kind words, because I think it's also important to just. Also, here's maybe one bit of advice. Say thank you when people give you a compliment, because often you're like, but I'm not doing it. It's like, no, you're doing a great job. And it's okay to say thank you when you did a great job. And so I appreciate that and I will definitely listen to that compliment. I appreciate it very much.
• 42:43
  Kevin Rice: If you've enjoyed this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We have many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow and stay tuned.