Latest / Pod Save America / Rage at Madison Square Garden

Transcript

Rage at Madison Square Garden · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's show, with one week to go, one week.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Big, big deep breath.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Don't like that.
• 0:31
  Speaker 5: In, out.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Our two candidates for president could not be closing more differently.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris held rallies with Michelle Obama and Beyonce that
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: hit on themes of reproductive freedom and bringing the country together,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: while Donald Trump just headlined a five-hour rally at New
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: York City's Madison Square Garden that was filled with more
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: hate and open racism than we've heard at a political event,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I think in decades. Even a Trump event, I cannot
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: remember anything quite like this. We'll get into all that,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and then later, Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi talked with Alyssa
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Mastromonaco about what it's like to be one of Trump's
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: enemies within, what's keeping her up at night, and what
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: she's expecting on Election Day. But first, so I'll be honest,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: when people were comparing Trump's plans to hold a rally
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden to the pro-Nazi rally that was
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: held there in 1939, I thought it was a bit much.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Plenty of other presidential candidates from both parties have held
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: rallies at the Garden over the years that no one
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: would confuse for being pro-Nazi. But regardless of what words
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: you might use to describe Trump's rally, you can decide
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: for yourself whether J.D. Vance was right in later calling
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: it a, quote, celebration of America. Let's listen.
• 1:41
  Speaker 6: And these Latinos, they love making babies, too. Just know
• 1:44
  Speaker 6: that they do.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: They do.
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: There's no pulling out.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: They don't do that.
• 1:51
  Speaker 6: They come inside, just like they did to our country.
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: There's a lot going on. Like, I don't know if
• 1:55
  Speaker 6: you guys know this, but there's literally a floating island
• 1:58
  Speaker 6: of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now.
• 2:01
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 2:02
  Speaker 6: I think it's called Puerto Rico. All right. Heck yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: This cool black guy with a thing on his head.
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: What the hell is that? A lampshade? Look at this guy.
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: Oh my goodness.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding.
• 2:14
  Speaker 6: That's one of my buddies. He had a Halloween party
• 2:16
  Speaker 6: last night.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: We had fun.
• 2:17
  Speaker 6: We carved watermelons together. It was awesome.
• 2:20
  Speaker 8: As the first Samoan Malaysian, low IQ, former California prosecutor
• 2:28
  Speaker 8: ever to be elected president, it was just a groundswell
• 2:30
  Speaker 8: of popular support.
• 2:32
  Speaker 6: She is the devil, whoever screamed that out.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: She is the antichrist.
• 2:36
  Speaker 7: She is some sick bastard, that Hillary Clinton, huh? What
• 2:39
  Speaker 7: a sick son of a bitch. The whole fucking party,
• 2:43
  Speaker 7: a bunch of degenerates, low-lives Jew haters and low-lives.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Every one of them.
• 2:50
  Speaker 6: We need to slaughter this other people.
• 2:53
  Speaker 9: America is for Americans and Americans only.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: When I say the enemy from within, the other side
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: goes crazy.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Becomes a sound, oh, how can he say?
• 3:03
  Speaker 10: No, they've done very bad things to this country.
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: They are indeed the enemy from within.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: But this is who we're fighting against. A day of love.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Another day of love. General impressions, guys? Do you think
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: that got some undecided voters off the fence? What do
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: you think?
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, weirdly, Trump's actual speech was basically just a
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: stump speech to a bigger than usual crowd. If it
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: had just been him, I think it would have kind
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: of been a nothing burger. But they decided to turn
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: it into basically another day of the RNC. It's interminable.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: RNC was much nicer.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Well, just this like long, endless... you know, group of
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: speakers and some of them were effective and some of
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: them were boring and some of them crossed the line
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: in ways that I don't think we've ever heard at
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: a Trump rally, at least not recently.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: And by the way, just to your point that it
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: was like an RNC, these were not people just going
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: up there and speaking off the cuff.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: These were vetted speeches.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: In fact, there's reporting that the Puerto Rico comment was
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: in a speech that was put through a teleprompter and
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: that they took out some of the other material for being.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: There was a there was a line in his original
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: speech that called Kamala Harris the C word. And the
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: campaign took that line out. But then they sent the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: rest of that speech right to the prompters. Although the
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: campaign is saying he ad-libbed the Puerto Rico joke.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: The general impression of the whole thing is a reminder
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: that for a lot of like the core base, like
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Trump is a personality hire for bigots. You know, he's
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: just like he's their avatar. And when these people have
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: a few hours to, I don't know, drink.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Be bored.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: This is what comes out. But pretty, pretty ugly. And like,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I have to imagine fundamentally unhelpful.
• 4:45
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I will say too, you're right. It was just Trump's
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: rally speech. It was Trump's typical stump speech, but like
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: doubling down on the enemy from within, which is why
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I wanted to play that part of it. And, you know,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: he did the, we're an occupied country liberation. It's like,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I guess we're numb to it because he's said it
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: so many times now.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're very much numb to it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: But on its own is incredibly dark to a way
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: to close the campaign. Like when you really I was
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: listening to that because I listened to his whole speech
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: because I was wondering if he would do anything different,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: you know. And he's really like even in 2016, even
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: in 2020, he was like going down a rabbit hole
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: of talking about like the FBI and Peter Strzok and things.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: You had to like have a degree in MAGA online
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: MAGA to know what he's talking about. 2016, he's still
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: talking about the Washington establishment. We're going to fight them.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: He basically when everyone's like, oh, what are Kamala Harris's plans?
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is only offering in his speeches now like
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: deporting even legal immigrants, I guess, drilling tariffs.
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And enemies list, and I'm going to prosecute people. That's it.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: That's all he's doing now. And then the rest is
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: just like an hour of grievance.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Some tax cuts for corporations.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you can tell what the campaign wanted
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: was at the very beginning, which is, are you better
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: off than you were four years ago? Kamala, you're fired.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Get out, right? You could tell that's what they wanted
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: on the evening news. But then he ends up doing
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: these crazy riffs about how there's a couple hundred thousand
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: kids who are missing in the U.S. or dead, or
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: they're sex slaves, and they came in because of Kamala's
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: open border. They played... uh, like this, like snuff footage,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: news clip, you real, you know, a couple of different
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: times they played all this, like really disgusting, you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: sort of descriptions of, of crimes by undocumented people. I mean,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: it is, it's gotten so, so dark and we are
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: very much used to it, but, um, you know, that
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: darkness in his speech is not what led the headlines.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: It was these people who came before him.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I also, there's been so much focus. We're going to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: talk about it more on, on Tony Hinchcliffe, that comedian
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: that did the Puerto Rico joke, but, The reason I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: want to play all those other voices is the Trump campaign.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Their response now is like, oh, it's a joke. It
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: was one joke. No, no, no, no. America is only
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: for Americans.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: That's Stephen.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: That was Stephen Miller, his top policy advisor, potentially the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: next White House chief of staff. The things they said
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: about Hillary Clinton, about Kamala Harris. I mean, it was
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: not it was not just one joke about Puerto Rico.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: There's Rudy Giuliani getting up there and saying hateful things
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: about Palestinians.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Do you guys think that the Trump campaign was happy
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: with how that went?
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: They can't be. I mean, when your main headline is
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: about whether the warm-up act, literally first speaker at the rally,
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: is hurt your standing with all Latino voters, that is
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: not a good headline. And again, it wasn't just AOC
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: weighing in. It wasn't Democrats. They can't just say this
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: was cancel culture. The campaign had to walk back from
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: this joke. A bunch of Florida elected officials put out statements.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Trump's trade advisor, Peter Navarro, who's like a real MAGA
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: dead ender, called Tony Hinchcliffe the biggest, stupidest asshole that
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: ever came down the comedy pike. That's a Trump advisor
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: saying that. So this is a real mess. And you
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: can't just blame the comedian. Like his show, Kill Tony,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: is a roast comedy show. A lot of the jokes
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: there are like them saying whatever is kind of the
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: most offensive, shocking thing. And often it's very, very racist.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: And you can love it. You can hate it. You
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: can listen to that. But but but. Booking that guy
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: to do that set at a political rally is unbelievably stupid.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: It is political malpractice. And of course this was going
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: to happen. Because, like, you can get away with saying
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: things at a comedy club you can't ever, ever say
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: at a political rally. They are morons for letting him
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: get there. Or the other guy who said Hillary Clinton's
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: a son of a bitch. Or the guy that said
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: that we should slaughter the Democrats. Or, I mean, like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: there's just, it's on and on and on past just
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: the comedian. Why would you book all these people?
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: And also just that, like, in the same way that, like,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I think they were caught off guard by the revulsion
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: to J.D. Vance because they don't realize how offensive some
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: of the things he has said are in the past.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: They don't realize how strange and extreme and bigoted they've gotten.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I think that's another case.
• 8:46
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: They have this guy. A lot of the remarks are vetted.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: This is what they want people to get up there
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: and say. And I think, of course, they're now backtracking
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: because the backlash was so severe. But like they wanted
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: this to be a bigoted, rabble rousing thing. They are
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: enjoying the comparison.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson saying that Kamala Harris is Samoan or Malaysian
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: or whatever when he fucking knows better.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Interestingly, I mean, per usual, Tucker Carlson kind of played
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: narrator at this thing where he talked about how he
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: had been given from Trump the gift of freedom and
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: liberation by being able to say what he really thinks now.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: And then you just saw it throughout all these speakers.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: And the biggest problem with the Kill Tony jokes, the
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Tony Hensliff jokes were that racist and awful. They also
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: were not even funny. They weren't jokes. They were just
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: like shitty observations. And you can get away with a
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: lot of things if you're funny, but also buddy, this
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: wasn't a comedy set. It was also an endorsement speech.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: He ended by saying like, uh, God voted three months ago.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: We voted in a week.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, as he said, Trump survived the assassination attempt.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: It's not a, it's not a fucking comedy show and
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a comedian just doing a bit and free speech and
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: cancel culture when the The candidate's top policy advisor gets
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: up there a week before the election and says, America's
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: for America. and americans only and then the speakers at
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the rally start saying making jokes about puerto ricans black
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: americans a number of other people and it just it's
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: it's what they want right like it's it is their
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: worldview right and they wanted to get that across.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Yes i also like and Tucker Carlson, we'll talk about
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: more of this later, but like Tucker Carlson basically saying, like,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: if they tell you Kamala Harris won, it's illegitimate, it's
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: inconceivable that she won because of our racist views on her,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: which teach, which tell us that anyone who says she's
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: compelling or successful as a politician is, is lying to you.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to lie anymore. I'm going to
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: be honest about my racism. Look, it was a night
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: of disgusting, racist, anti-democratic, anti-American speeches. But this idea that
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: like a guy makes a, a fucking terrible joke like this,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: which is not just racist, but as Tommy said, a
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: bad joke. And then people are criticizing it. It's like, oh,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: you guys can't take a fucking joke.
• 10:51
  Speaker 12: I hate it.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I fucking hate that. Like this guy, this guy posted
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: a video of Don Rickles at Ronald Reagan's second inaugural
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: saying nobody had a problem with Don Rickles speaking at
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan's second inaugural. First of all, it wasn't a
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: political event. It was a nonpartisan event. Also Don Rickles
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: turning over in his fucking grave and the number of
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: like hacky fucking terrible comedians who say, Don Rickles was
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: an equal opportunity offender. It was very frustrating. It's also like, hey, man,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: you can joke about whatever you want to joke about.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: It has to be fucking funny. And like, Jeselnik has
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: talked about this. A bunch of other comedians talked about it. Seinfeld,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: by the way, went out there and said, like, you
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: can't make any jokes anymore. The PC culture is coming
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: after it. And he actually thought about it. And he
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: came back later and said, you know what? I thought
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: about it. That was a stupid thing to say. I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: don't believe that.
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: Why?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Because culture change and politics change. And you have to
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: hit the goalposts. Like, the goalposts may move, what's funny
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: may be harder, may be more difficult, and you have
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to fucking hit it. And, like, the idea that these
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: terrible fucking comedians make the dumbest, worst jokes, and then
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: everybody has to defend them because of their free speech
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: is very frustrating. Like, if the joke was funny, we
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be in this.
• 11:52
  Speaker 8: I know.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I just, I get, like.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: It's not the most important point.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: No, I know you know that, but they want this
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: to be another debate about comedy and cancel culture and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: what's acceptable, and it's like, that is not what this
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: is about.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Of course not.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: And you weren't canceled, man. You were speaking at Madison
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Square Garden in front of 28,000 people sucking up to
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: the former and maybe future president of the United States.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: You were kissing his ass. You were kissing the ring.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Your joke sucked. Everyone let you know. Get over it.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: You're not a fucking victim.
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: It's also bad for, like, however, whatever effect this may
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: or may not have on actual voters, I do think
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: there are, there are now seven days left. At the time,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: there were, what, eight days left. So they lose Monday
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: now because Monday was all about Madison Square Garden and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the fact that they had, like, a hateful, racist rally.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Tuesday now is going to be Kamala Harris's closing argument speech.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: She gets the spotlight for Tuesday. So they're just losing days.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And we keep talking about, because we're on the Kamala
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Harris side about like, she needs to close the deal.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: She needs to do this. The race is pretty much tied.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Like Trump needs to close the deal too with voters.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: And he just lost, he's just lost a day doing
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that at the very least, if not worse, if not
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: like getting people off the fence to say like, that's
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: fucking crazy, you know?
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we just don't know the full effect
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: of this kind of rally in the closing days and
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: what it looks like for people to be hearing about it.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: And like, cause I do think that there's a bunch
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: of people that are in this home stretch going to
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: be reaching out to like friends and loved ones to
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: be like, hey, I know you've seen a lot of things.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I know you were saying like this, like, here's why
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I think this is important. And like, this is a
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: very good time for Trump to be part of something
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: so awful.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: And it doesn't seem like a coincidence that yesterday, Bad Bunny,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Ricky Martin, and J-Lo all endorsed Kamala Harris.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Well, it was a coincidence that earlier in the day,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: before this even happened, she released her economic plan for
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Puerto Rico in Philadelphia. That was just like, what timing?
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: There are 470,000 Puerto Rican Americans in Pennsylvania. It's the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: biggest population of Puerto Rican Americans of any swing state,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: certainly larger than Biden's 80,000 vote margin, a victory in 2020.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: This is probably one reason, as Tommy mentioned, that a
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: lot of Republican politicians sort of like fell all over
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: themselves to condemn this. Rick Scott, Florida's got, I think,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: a million Puerto Rican Americans. And we wanted to find
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: out whether this might actually have an electoral effect next week.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: So we checked in with our pal Carlos Odio, Democratic
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: strategist who's an expert on the Latino vote. Here's what
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: he said.
• 14:19
  Speaker 9: We're used to Trump and his allies saying wildly offensive things.
• 14:25
  Speaker 9: But those things don't always make it to the kind
• 14:29
  Speaker 9: of low information voters who are going to decide where
• 14:31
  Speaker 9: this ends up at the end of the day. And
• 14:33
  Speaker 9: so I want to do manage expectations that this is
• 14:36
  Speaker 9: not providing new information. But if there is an exception,
• 14:39
  Speaker 9: I would say it is the Puerto Rican piece. specifically
• 14:43
  Speaker 9: because of the way that those comments, those incredibly unfunny comments,
• 14:51
  Speaker 9: were so incendiary, they were almost designed to be amplified
• 14:54
  Speaker 9: at scale. I'm surprised WhatsApp didn't go down in Puerto
• 14:59
  Speaker 9: Rico and in Central Florida and in Allentown and Redding, Pennsylvania.
• 15:04
  Speaker 9: And they were instantly amplified by major players who had
• 15:08
  Speaker 9: been on the sidelines of this election. So you had
• 15:10
  Speaker 9: Bad Bunny and Ricky Martin Weighing in for Harris, normally
• 15:16
  Speaker 9: you would say in the era of Trump, these things
• 15:19
  Speaker 9: go down a rabbit hole. And yet this particular moment
• 15:23
  Speaker 9: and in the way it was timed felt like it
• 15:26
  Speaker 9: could be an exception.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So the Harris campaign also has a new ad out today.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I can't tell if it's a video ad or how
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: much money is behind it or whatever, but they made
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: an ad about this. Nate Silver also did a little research.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And he says there's some initial evidence that the rally
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: is drawing broader attention. Today and yesterday are the top
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: days of Google search traffic for Trump since the second
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: assassination attempt against him in September. The chart was interesting.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: It's like this pretty straight lines. The first assassination is
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: like off the charts. Conviction is pretty small. That's a bump, though.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Second assassination is like the conviction, a little bump. And
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: then now this is getting up towards that level, which
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I think is pretty telling.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I talked to it. AOC, which you'll hear on Wednesday,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: and it was before the rally, but we talked about
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. And I do think there's something about that,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: just the referring to Puerto Rico as garbage and it
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: reflecting the kind of the bigotry of that rally. Like
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the sense that Puerto Rico was forgotten and disrespected after Maria,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and that this is a place that has been ignored
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: by politicians, that Trump corruption contributed to the terrible response
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: in Puerto Rico. I do think like all of this
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: is like part of the ground on which this comment-
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: will grow. And so, yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: It's also the period of time when people who don't
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: ever think about politics are thinking about it for maybe
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: the first time in four years, because they're deciding whether
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: to vote. And this can't be helpful.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: No. And again, like, and that's with, we've been talking
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: about the Puerto Rican American community, but If, you know,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Google Trends and Google searches of Trump are like, anyone
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: who gets any part of that rally. Yeah. There's almost
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: no good parts of that rally.
• 17:02
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, voters all across the country are not thinking
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: about politics at all.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Like, oof, that's tough.
• 17:07
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: And if you see the headlines, you know, a lot
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: of critique about headlines over the last several years. They all,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: New York Times, Politico, Washington Post, they all had, you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: racist headlines. incendiary rally in the remarks. Like, I think
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: this is one that broke through, again, because it's the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: fucking final week of the campaign.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Not the most important point, but a group of people
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: that I'm sure yell when they have to press one
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: for English. Hillary Clinton would not be a son of
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: a bitch. She would just be a bitch.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: That about bothered you, I know.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: It's like you're going to claim you're bothered by people
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: speaking Spanish. You don't speak fucking English.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: That is very true. Trump also said, point well taken,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Trump also sat down with Joe Rogan on Friday. I
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: know that's a few days ago now, but in fairness,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: that's how long it takes to listen to Joe Rogan's podcast.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Almost literally. The interview clocked in at about three hours.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And as of Monday afternoon, though, has nearly 35 million
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: views on YouTube alone. Did you guys have, how far
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: did you two make it? I am an hour and
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: a half in and I'm just like, I can't do
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: it anymore.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Made it to the whole, made it through the whole
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: thing at two point.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Same.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Mostly two speed.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I gotta say two speed.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: I got up to 3.5. Thank you, Spotify. It was
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: about politics.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: What do you get at 3.5?
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: He talks slow enough that you get more than you think.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you something. When you played the clip of
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: the rally, I'm so used to, I try to avoid
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: watching Trump live so that I can watch him faster
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: so there's less time spent on Trump. And so I
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: listened to him at, And two, I was like, wow,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: he's pretty energetic. And then when I, like, I think
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I moved from my car to back to my phone
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and then he was back at one X. I was like,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, this is terrible.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I thought, which is first. So
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: if you saw somebody on social media telling you that
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: it's the worst interview Trump ever did, that it was embarrassing,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: that Joe Rogan was horrified and thought Trump was embarrassing.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: You should just keep in mind that those are people
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: you should not listen to because it was fake fucking news.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Do I think it's like a groundbreaking interview? Of course not.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: He rambles and he gives basically all of his same answers.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: But as a forum for Trump, it was also like,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I think, the best kind of interview he could hope
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to get. Joe Rogan was incredibly solicitous, kind of keying
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: him up with ways to take on some of the
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: arguments from the left. It was a love fest for Trump.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Do I think that necessarily matters? I have no fucking idea,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: but it was not, it was a good interview for him.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not like a fan of Rogan's and a
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: regular listener. I'm not a hater because I've like dipped
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: into times and heard celebrity interviews and things that were interesting. And,
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: you know, obviously he's very successful. So going into it,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I had like a little bit of hope that because
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: he'd been critical of Trump and because he was an
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: RFK guy, maybe he would push him on some things
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: during the three hours. Maybe he'd do a little research
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: to prep himself, but I couldn't have been more disappointed.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: It was entirely friendly. Rogan took everything at face value
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: from Trump saying he said some secret thing to Putin
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: to prevent him from invading Ukraine to Trump bragging about
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: being able to run on a treadmill all day, even
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: at the highest elevation, like everything was taken at face value.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Rogan, he kicked off.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: The questioning about the 2020 election denial by basically saying,
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: you know, everyone does this Hillary question, 2016, yada, yada, yada,
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: but never really like he came back to it, but
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: he didn't get past it.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: There was one point where he said, are you ever
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: going to show us the evidence? That was a good moment,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I suppose. But yeah, like it was, it was, I
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: feel like it was an example to me of like,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I see a bunch of people are like canceling their
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Washington Post subscriptions because they're mad that Jeff Bezos' Washington
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Post is not endorsing. And it just, I think, is
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: that a helpful thing to punish the journalists of the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Washington Post? I do not think so. But where does
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: that impulse come from? And I think part of where
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: it comes from is this kind of like endless feeling
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: of like dispiriting exhaustion that like there's a fundamentally fraudulent
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: case Donald Trump is offering, just a fundamentally flawed and
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: fraudulent case. And this was just a forum for him
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: to lay out that case But if it's not questioned,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: if it's not challenged, if it's entirely solicitous, you see
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: why if you're not paying that close of attention or
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: if you're receptive to in the first place, why Donald
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Trump is so appealing. Because in that forum, it's a
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: ton of lies and bullshit and self-aggrandizing made-up stories. But
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: it's compelling. And he's charming in it.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I thought it was not compelling. He was not good.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: He's meandering.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: He's meandering. And not even because of all the frames
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: about Trump. It's not the... the bigotry and lies from
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: the rally. It wasn't that it's not the, um, he's
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: addled and losing it kind of shit. He is just,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: he's a, he's a bad conversationalist because all he cares about,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: you don't get the weave dude.
• 21:47
  Speaker 11: Right.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: All he, all he cares about is himself and his
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: fucking stories. And he's one of those people like you
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: could tell, and I was watching some of it too.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: You could tell Rogan too, like Rogan was extremely solicitous
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and very nice to him, but you could tell at
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: times Rogan's looking at him like, okay, what, what next?
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Like he just, The stories, and first of all, all
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: of the stories, I mean, if we've been listening to
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Trump for way too long, all the stories we heard before.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: A thousand times.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Again, we now, we analyze Kamala Harris's speeches now and
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: her interviews and be like, oh, did she talk about
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: people though? Is she talking about what she's going to
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: do for people? Donald Trump was like, at one point
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: at the beginning, he was bitching about how hard it
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: is to build things in New York because of all
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the environmental regulations and the permits and the unions. And
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: he's yelling and he's, and it's like, he's like talking
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: about something from 10, 15 years ago. Then he's talking
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: about burying windmills and blades. And it just, it is
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: all like it is. It's self-aggrandizing. I just, I cannot
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: imagine that unless you were a Trump fan, if you
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: could sit through that whole thing, you'd be like, yeah,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: this guy, I think this guy could be in charge.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: This guy, this guy was looking out for me.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: That's not where I landed.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: That's not where I landed either. I just like the,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I think that like the way he was talking about it,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: like he talks about, I, again.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: It's all just bullshit. What did you think was appealing?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Uh, I, I, first of all, he, they had very,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: they had like kind of a, they had charming interactions about, about, uh,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: UFC and about fighters.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Trump knows his stuff when it comes to the UFC
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: and boxing and they connected on that. And the audience
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: really likes that.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: And then the stuff about building, like it's, he, it's
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: all pretend, right. But he's kind of trying to display
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: for that audience. It kind of like, I know about building,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: like there was a conversation about, um, staffing up and
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: how you have to use politicians. Cause if you use
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: business people that haven't been vetted before, he just, to me,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it was like, the, of course, yes, he's rambling and
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: the stories go on forever. And occasionally Rogan didn't know
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: exactly what he was talking about. But inside of that
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: was like a section where he talked about how moved
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: he was to be at the White House when he
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: became president. There was a section where he talked about
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: the economy and taxes. Now it's ultimately a bullshit case,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: but I felt like it conveyed the kind of like
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump as businessman, this sort of affable outsider that
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: is what he's been trying to convey.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it gets him anything. I do
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: think they connected on some level. I definitely think he
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: rambled that audience might be gone. I think Rogan is
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: looking for conspiracies in every corner. And I think Trump
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: served them up frequently. The thing that just, he was
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: just so frustratingly uninformed. Again, I know Joe Rogan is in,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: you know, meet the press, but like he referred to
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: Kamala Harris being in her late forties. He was talking
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: about the bipartisan immigration bill that Trump killed. And he
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: literally said to Trump, what was in that bill? It's like, buddy,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: you could have, you could have Googled that. He like, there's,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: this is my hobby horse, but there's no like pushback
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: or context about the Afghanistan withdrawal and the fact that
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Trump negotiated the withdrawal timeframe. Rogan's a big RFK guy.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: He's talking about healthy foods. There's no thinking or acknowledgement
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: that Republicans are the ones who like want to get
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: rid of the EPA to allow all these chemicals into
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: our atmosphere and make our foods less healthy. So just,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: it made me insane. And remind me to tell you, uh,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: I watched an after the show clip where Rogan criticized
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: one part about Trump and I'll, I'll tell you what
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: that was after we're done with this.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: But like stepping back from it, what I was thinking
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: when I was watching the interview is to that interview
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: that his two advisors gave to Semaphore about what their
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: strategy is. And I do think if you watched all
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: three hours of that interview, you come away a little
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: bit inoculated against the idea that Donald Trump is some
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: like fascist menace. I just think you do because the
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: section about the vote in 2020 was so favorable to Trump.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: There was nothing about the insurrection, he just, I think,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: comes across in this non-threatening way in that forum. And
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I do think it's worth keeping that in mind when
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: we get to talking about the argument around fascism and
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: all the rest, that this is a version of Trump
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: that a lot of people are seeing. And I just
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: don't want to dismiss it.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss it at all. I'm just saying,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and I think that on some of these podcasts that
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: he's done, it is a good forum for him. And
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: he sounded better. I think on this one, He has
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: he's just he was very like to me, it's it's
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: you're right. If people are worried about the fascism thing,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: that's going to help that. But like at this stage,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: a week out, if you're undecided, first of all, if
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: you're undecided to week out, I don't know that you're
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: listening to three hours of Joe Rogan because you're probably
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a low information voter, low propensity voter. So that's, you know, uncertain.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And at this point, you want to be again, we're
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: going to say this about Kamala Harris. We've been saying
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: it for a month. You want to know, like, what
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: what is this person going to do for me?
• 26:21
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that he did that at all.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: I think just, I think that Rogan was a bit
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: of a Trump skeptic and this interview all but stamped
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: his approval on him by the end. And I don't
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: know how many people that moves or if it matters,
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: but on the margins it could, especially given the 35
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: million number you cited on YouTube.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I had the same disappointment that you did. I was like, oh,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I just, I like also bought into some of what
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I'd seen online before I went into it. And I
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, maybe Rogan's going to push back here
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: and there, but it just wasn't there.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: So the Harris campaign said that they were interested in
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: going on, but it didn't work out. What do you
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: guys think about that? I, it's a huge show.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: I think writing off any audience generally is a mistake
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: in politics. I'd love to see Obama go on or
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: like Colin Allred or somebody who might, you know, kind
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: of jive with him, you know, in terms of love
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: of sports. But I think in a normal length campaign,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: it would be a mistake to skip it. Doing it now,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: a few weeks left. got to go to Texas, got
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: to spend three hours. Like, I don't know that Harris
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: should have done it. I think it would probably have
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: been a bad use of time.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have been a bad interview. I think
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: like he, for all the reasons that you guys cited
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and haven't listened to half of it, he clearly loves Trump.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: He didn't, you know, endorse Trump up to this, but
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: he's got his facts wrong on a whole bunch of things.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: He's not pushing back. He's got Trump's worldview. He's got
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: RFK Jr. 's worldview probably more than Trump. Kamala Harris
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: does not. And so she would have to spend, I
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: don't know how many hours going back and forth with
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: him over like basic facts, um, that he would, you know,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: like I just, it would, it, he claims he.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Wasn't going to push her on that. He claims he
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: just wanted to have like a, who are you? What's
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: your deal conversation. But yeah, I mean, he has a,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: he's clearly got the kind of aggrieved, you know, cancel culture,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: whiner worldview.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And I think with Brett bear on Fox, you know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: that it is a set amount of time for the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: interview fight that you're going to push back, that you're
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: going to do this. You can't do that for two
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: hours and three hours.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I also like, I take to heart what, uh, binder
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: told dan which is that you know there's all this
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: sort of discourse around this the unique set of issues
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: that appeal to young men that we're trying to reach
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: but actually they care about the same set of issues
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: every as everybody else uh to to a large extent
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: and so to me it'd be less about like should
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: she do this one interview i do think this larger
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: constellation of kind of less political podcast and and youtube
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: shows that are aimed at men like i i would
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: like to see us engaging with them more and like
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the Theo Vons of the world and all the rest.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: But beyond that, it's like, well, she is going to
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of places where, where you reach young men.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: She's on Charlemagne. She's doing all kinds of things. So like,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: they do have a strategy around this. Does Rogan necessarily
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: fit into that? Maybe, maybe not, but it's just one show.
• 28:50
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: I am.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Look, I've always been on this, in this train, but like,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: do not go on a show because you're platforming, whatever.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just, I've been long done with. Oh yeah, I
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: don't care. It's a big show with a big audience.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: You go on.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: If you're in politics, right? Like that's, you're, you're, you're
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: trying to reach people. You go do it, you know, unless,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: unless you think it's not going to serve you politically
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: because the substance of the interview itself is not going
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: to make up for the reach that you get rigged
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: against you. Yeah.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: So I caught this quick clip of Rogan talking with
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: some of his buddies after he'd recorded it and they
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: were in the guys were like, what'd you talk about?
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: And one of them said, did you ask him why
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: he was so pro vaccine? And Rogan's like, ah, kind of,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, the only time I was sort of frustrated
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: in the interview was was Trump started talking about the
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: polio vaccine eradicating the disease. And I wanted to show
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: him the chart of how that actually isn't true. And
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: it's like, but he said, I decided not to get
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: into it because I didn't want to go down a
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: long path about vaccine. and it's like okay wait so
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: the one time you were disappointed in this interview joe
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: rogan was when donald trump said the polio vaccine eradicated polio.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Now imagine interviewing kamala harris and and and him bringing
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: up that point like what do you even do i
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: don't know yeah you're just like shocked like so now
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have kamala harris prep i mean i i
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I have changed my mind on this because at first
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, I think it might be good
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: for her to go on. But having listened to him,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to Trump, and even that, it's like you're going to
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: have to prep Kamala Harris now for a day where you,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: instead of prepping her with just all the things you'd
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: prep her for for normal interviews, you'd be like, oh,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: by the way, on vaccines, you've got to know your
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: shit on polio and this study and that. I mean,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: come on.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Six months ago, yes.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Now, right.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: So everything we see shows the race is still a
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: toss up. But the Trump campaign and Magra World are
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: as confident and cocky as I think I've ever heard them,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: even more so than in 16 or 20. After campaigning
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: in places like New York, California, Colorado, Trump is also
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: making stops in New Mexico and Virginia this week. Two
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: states Republicans haven't won in decades, two decades. And here's
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: a puzzling comment Trump made to Speaker Mike Johnson during
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the MSG rally on Sunday.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So Johnson got asked on Monday what the secret might be,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: and he said, By definition, a secret is not to
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: be shared.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: And I don't intend to share this one.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: You fucking, what the fuck kind of like, I'm sorry.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Dictionary.com over there.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Do you think that Trump made Johnson his accountability partner
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: on that app that he uses to monitor his kids'
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: porn intake?
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: It has to be.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Trump is fucking, like, he should be just an aging
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: drag queen. Because that's like the energy of these comments.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Just a kind of, like, it's a Sunset Boulevard, like,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: me and Mike Johnson, we have a little secret, don't we, Mikey?
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: We have a secret, shh. Don't tell anybody what we
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: talked about. Anyway, immigrants.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Maybe they have a secret plan to actually hang Mike Pence.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Finish the job.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: So just to have a conversation about this, some people
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: are wondering if this has to do with some plan
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: between Johnson and Trump so that if Harris wins and
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Johnson's still Speaker of the House... That he will not
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: certify the election or he'll engage in some shenanigans and
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: then he'll try to throw the election to the House,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: in which case if the House votes, then Trump wins.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think? I did not quite get that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: It's possible. But just the verb tenses that Trump used,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: it makes me it made me it. I took it
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: as they've got a secret about how to win the House, not. that,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: but I don't know.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't know either. And I don't ever want to
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: find out. So everybody do everything you can to win
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: the fucking house. Like we win the house on January 3rd,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Mike Johnson and Donald Trump could have whatever fucking bedroom
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: secrets they want to have. And it won't matter. It
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: could really matter if Mike Johnson is still the speaker.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: So I really like the fact that like there was this, this,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: this was a line that came at the end of
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: hours of menace of Tucker Carlson, basically denying any kind
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: of Kamala win could be legitimate. And it felt menacing
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: when you hear it. I like the feeling I had
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: when I heard him say it was like, oh, that's
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: a menacing fucking comment. Maybe it's innocuous. It's their secret
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: fucking game plan to win the House.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I don't want to find out.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I want people to be clear about that, too, because
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I saw some people saying, oh, well, even if if
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Harris wins, even if Democrats win the House, Johnson will
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: still be speaker during January. He won't be. He won't.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: He won't be. The new Congress will be seated for
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: January 6th. We'll be wild.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Hopefully less wild.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Hopefully less wild. But it'll be... So if Hakeem Jeffries
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: is Speaker, and then also even if, you know, whoever
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: they have, if the Republicans win the Senate and whoever
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the leader is there, there's still not... We got it.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: If that happens, we got it. At least in the
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Congress part. There's no shenanigans in Congress at that point
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: because we would control the House. But to the point
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: you made about Tucker, right? Because Tucker's doing this. How
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: could she possibly win 86 million votes or whatever and
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: this is... If you look on social media right now,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: every fucking blue-checked MAGA account, they are... We talk about, like,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: don't read too much into the early vote. They think
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: the early vote is, like, just... They are crushing Democrats
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: right now. They're like, Trump is going to win all
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: seven states. And, like, they have... I don't know whether
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: they actually believe this or whether they're just, like, you know,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: spewing bullshit. But, like, if Trump loses... Talk about stop
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the steal. They are very primed to say that there's
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: absolutely no way possible that Kamala Harris could.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Have won this election. Whether they're being cynical or naive,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I think one of the big lessons of a decade
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: of Trump is it doesn't matter. Either way, this is
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: what they're going to pretend to have believed if Donald
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Trump loses. So I do think that that matters. But
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I also like, I think it's like, yes, it's about
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: getting ready for post-election shenanigans. But I do think part
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: of it is like, Look, any campaign puts up yard
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: signs like yard signs are about a bandwagon effect. We
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: all do that. Everybody does that. But there's something specific
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: about Trump because so much of the argument is about
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: character and about him being sort of morally unacceptable. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: so creating a kind of permission structure that's like they're
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: all crazy. Look, the country's behind him. Like you come
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: on board.
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Everybody's doing it. And I think that matters more for
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: him than it would for a normal candidate.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Meanwhile, Kamala Harris is keeping up her breakneck schedule
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: in the battlegrounds. She's in Michigan as we're recording this.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Three rallies today in Michigan, three events.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: And earlier today, she responded on the tarmac to a
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: reporter's question about Trump's Madison Square Garden hate fest. Here's
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: that response, along with comments from AOC, who is, of course,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Puerto Rican-American herself. And she responded during the rally while
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: live streaming a game of Madden NFL 25 with Tim
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Walls on Twitch. It's 2024. That's what we're doing right now.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: All right, let's listen.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump has, this is not new about him, by
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: the way.
• 35:54
  Speaker 10: What he did last night is not a discovery.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: It is just more of the same and maybe more
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: vivid than usual. Donald Trump spends full time trying to
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: have Americans point their finger at each other, fans, the
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: fuel of hate and division. And that's why people are
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: exhausted with him.
• 36:13
  Speaker 12: I need people to understand that when they, when you
• 36:16
  Speaker 12: have some a-hole president, calling Puerto Rico floating garbage, know
• 36:25
  Speaker 12: that that's what they think about you. That's just what
• 36:28
  Speaker 12: they think about you. It's what they think about anyone
• 36:31
  Speaker 12: who makes less money than them. It's what they think
• 36:33
  Speaker 12: about the people who serve them food in a restaurant.
• 36:36
  Speaker 12: It's what they think about the people who fold their
• 36:40
  Speaker 12: clothes in a store.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Like, You're right.
• 36:43
  Speaker 12: Are you serious?
• 36:45
  Speaker 13: Like, are you serious?
• 36:47
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: The privilege of being on this campaign is traveling across
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the entire country.
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: There are hundreds of thousands of Puerto Ricans across in
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: battleground states that need to send them a message.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think about the way Harris responded, AOC, Walls?
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: First of all, I want Kamala to get away from
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: the jet engines. I'm never going to let this go.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I also was wondering why, why is Tim Walls whispering
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: like his He doesn't want his mom to hear him
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: playing Madden.
• 37:11
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: It was like, I'm like, everyone's very chill right now. Like,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: where is our defense? What's happening?
• 37:16
  Speaker 11: I don't know.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: I thought AOC was particularly good on this because she
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: understands and is from the community and she's a really
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: credible messenger. And it dovetails with the broader argument she's
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: been making about Elon Musk, that he's laughing at you.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: They're mocking you when they dangle the million dollar check.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: They're mocking you. They don't care about you. They don't
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: understand you. I think that was effective. The Harris comments
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: about divisiveness and division and feeling the flames. They're accurate,
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: but it is giving me a little bit of 2016
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: PTSD if I'm being totally honest.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I thought it was great. I thought she's, she
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to get offended by them. No, I think
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: 2016 would be like, this is racist. This is offensive. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: That was what 2016 was. She's saying like, it's the
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: same old divisive shit.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she is saying the same old thing.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: And we're going to get into the whole future forward
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: thing and focus on economic stuff, but that's the pivot
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: she's making. She's not taking the bait. She's not saying, like,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go on and on the rally and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: say how offensive it is.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Well, she commented on it multiple times. So, I mean,
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: there's certainly, I don't know if taking the bait or not,
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: but they're certainly talking about it. They cut an ad
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: about it that we mentioned earlier. They're doing a lot
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: of things to highlight this part of the story.
• 38:20
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: But I think the way that the message is from
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: her is that he should be, he's not focusing on
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: you and I'm going to be focusing on you, which
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: is the right message.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I think that's right.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: So, as we get close to the end, the A-list
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: surrogates are out on the trail for Harris. On Friday,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: of course, Harris and Beyonce rallied together in Houston. And
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: then on Saturday, Michelle Obama appeared with the VP at
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: a rally in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Let's listen.
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: We are at the precipice of an incredible shift, the
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: brink of history. I'm not here as a celebrity. I'm
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: not here as a politician. I'm here as a mother.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: A mother who cares deeply about the world my children
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: and all of our children live in. A world where
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: we have the freedom to control our bodies.
• 39:12
  Speaker 11: Do not put our lives in the hands of politicians,
• 39:17
  Speaker 11: mostly men who have no clue or do not care
• 39:22
  Speaker 11: about what we as women are going through. Please, please
• 39:26
  Speaker 11: do not hand our fates over to the likes of Trump,
• 39:29
  Speaker 11: who know nothing about us, who has shown deep contempt
• 39:33
  Speaker 11: for us, because a vote for him is a vote
• 39:39
  Speaker 11: against us.
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: Against our health, against our work.
• 39:45
  Speaker 14: So fellas, before you cast your votes, Ask yourselves, what
• 39:52
  Speaker 14: side of history do you want to be on?
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I would encourage everyone to watch the entire Michelle Obama speech.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: They call her the closer for a reason. What do
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: you guys think of the speech?
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I thought it was one of the best
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: political speeches I've heard in a really long time. I
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: was really moved by it, moved thinking about it. She
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: was emotional delivering it. And I actually was thinking, like,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: you put that Joe Rogan interview together. up against Michelle Obama.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: And I just think Michelle Obama wins every time. Because yes,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: that might've been the most effective version of Trump you'll see, right?
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: The affable businessman talking, shooting the shit with Joe Rogan.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: But this was about the stakes. And I found it persuasive.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: It was persuasive. It was aimed at people who aren't
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: paying a lot of attention, but it was also aimed
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: at people who are paying a lot of attention and
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: the best argument they can make to the people in
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: their lives. And spoke to, I think, a lot of
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: the cynicism and frustration people have who are paying close
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: attention to. I just thought it was an amazing speech.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Tommy.
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, the speech is two parts. The first half
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: was basically her like unloading the oppo clip on Trump
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: and going at him very hard and laying into him.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: And I obviously enjoyed that. But that's something that a
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: lot of people can do. The second half was riveting.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, you can hear it is silent in there.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: People are wrapped in paying attention. And it really was
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: unlike any speech I've heard this entire election cycle, the
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: way she talked about the stakes for everyone being in
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: terms of reproductive health. And she figured out a way
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: to bring you emotionally into the room, into the hospital room,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: watching someone you love die. And it was unbelievably powerful.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: And I watched, I mean, a bunch of people told
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: me it was great. And when I finally watched it,
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: I too was like blown away by just how powerful,
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: how much she connected and how much you could tell
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: she meant it. And my only thought afterwards was like,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: how do we get this in front of everybody? How
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: do you make sure this is the thing on TikTok
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: that's getting the most push?
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Because it's long, right?
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: There's extended chunks and that's the power, the sort of
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: like three minute detailed explanation of what life could be
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: like for you and your partner.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: If these laws pass. I know I was, we were
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: trying to clip this for today and it's hard because
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: the whole section on reproductive freedom is eight minutes, I think.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: And so it's just, it's hard to, it's, I mean,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: both of the Obamas are like this, right? Which is,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: There's not, they don't do sound bites and like one
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: line here and there. And you really have to watch
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: the whole thing in full to get it. I thought,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've been talking forever about like men and
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: appeals to men and how this works. And she makes
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: this direct appeal to men that I think is maybe
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: one of the most effective appeals to men on almost
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: any issues, certainly reproductive rights. Otherwise, like, you know, I
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: tweeted this and then fucking Ben Shapiro quote tweets me
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: and he's like, Michelle Obama, is always just disappointed in you.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Everything she says, she's just so disappointed in you. And
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's a funny reaction because she went out
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: of her way in that section to empathize with what
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: young men or what men might be thinking. And at
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: one point she says like, I don't expect men to
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: understand all that women go through with our reproductive health.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: She's like, frankly, women don't always understand what's going on
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: in our own bodies, right? But she's like, just imagine
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: if you do this. And then she's like she's she's
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: pleading with men.
• 43:08
  Speaker 12: Right.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: And she's trying to, like, put herself in their shoes.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it was so empathetic. Well, it's
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: so empathetic.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Look, you were worth saying as well.
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: There's some political value to saying, oh, Michelle Obama is
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: talking down to men. She is.
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Of course she's not.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: It's just lazy.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Of course it's lazy.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Which Ben has become.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Voting for Trump is a very disappointing thing for men
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: to do. And I think part of what that speech
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: was about was about how to reach people that you
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: might feel upset with that they're considering this, right? She
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: says at one point in the speech, like your rage
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: may be justified, but if you use your rage to
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: vote for Trump, you're voting against us. And like that,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I think that idea saying that, like, I understand why
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: you're upset. I understand why this may be on the
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: table for you, but it's morally wrong. And it's not
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: just politics. It's not just, oh, we can disagree. A
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: vote for Trump is a vote against the women you
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: claim to love. And if you love them, you should
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: listen to them.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: Ben Shapiro was so mad about the Barbie movie that
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: he lit Barbie dolls on fire and then released a
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: 43-minute review of it. So just for context.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I just have a real special animus towards people like
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro and J.D. Vance who fancy themselves the intellectual Zambonis, right?
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Who try to make this intellectual argument about shit when
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know what? You're full of shit. You're
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: foolish because if you actually listen to it, your criticism
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: of the speech has nothing to do with what was
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: actually in the speech.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: If your wife was dying, you would do anything it
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: took to save her life. You lying little shit.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. It's like if you want to pick
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: apart facts, then go try to pick apart facts. But
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: you didn't do that because you can't. So like the
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Trump campaign, the Harris campaign is also projecting confidence, though
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Democratic strategists and reporters are doing their thing by continuing
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: to publicly air an internal debate about which message Harris
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: should close on. The New York Times reports that Future Forward,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: the big pro-Harris super PAC, warned in their weekly email
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: to Democratic operatives that attacking Trump as a fascist, which
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: two four-star generals who worked for him have now called him,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: isn't particularly persuasive, and that hammering a contrast with Trump
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: on the economy and reproductive rights, featuring Harris's own stances,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: works better. We've talked about this a lot. Dan asked
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Kamala's lead pollster, our friend David Binder, about it on
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Sunday's bonus pod, which if you haven't listened to yet,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: you should absolutely listen to. Binder said you have to
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: do both. And here's what Harris campaign manager Jen O'Malley
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Dillon said about it to Jen Psaki on Sunday.
• 45:27
  Speaker 10: I mean, look, I think we have seen from the
• 45:29
  Speaker 10: beginning that when people who have worked closest with Donald
• 45:34
  Speaker 10: Trump speak out, it has real impact on voters and
• 45:38
  Speaker 10: certainly on these voters that we're still trying to reach
• 45:41
  Speaker 10: this small segment of undecided voters. We know anecdotally, we
• 45:46
  Speaker 10: know from our research, when someone like John Kelly stands
• 45:49
  Speaker 10: up and speaks about what it was like to serve
• 45:52
  Speaker 10: under Donald Trump, speaks about how he clearly wants unchecked power.
• 45:56
  Speaker 10: The American people are not comfortable with that. And that
• 45:59
  Speaker 10: is an important contrast that we have. And I think
• 46:01
  Speaker 10: that it's fundamental to everything that the vice president is
• 46:05
  Speaker 10: talking about, how we turn the page from this. how
• 46:08
  Speaker 10: we have a leadership in this country that's focused on
• 46:10
  Speaker 10: the issues that the American people care about. So we
• 46:12
  Speaker 10: do think it's important. It's really important when people that
• 46:14
  Speaker 10: are closest to Donald Trump speak out about it. And
• 46:17
  Speaker 10: we've seen that across all of our data.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think about this debate and particularly
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: the balance that the Harris campaign is striking right now?
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: So, first of all, I think we obviously have to
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: do both is the answer we've always been landing on.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: It's just like you have to do both. You have
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: to make the positive case. You have to make the
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: contrast case. You have to make sure people understand the threat.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: One thing that Binder said that I thought captures, I think,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: like another facet of this is he said around this
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: question of whether to call Trump a fascist. It's that
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: one word doesn't communicate what the threat is.
• 46:45
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And to me, like that was the most important point
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: of this. Not should we describe the menace and threat
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: that Trump poses versus should we just make a positive argument?
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: It's that when we talk about the threat Trump poses,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: how do we do that? And like, so I asked
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: AOC about this, this question of like calling Trump a fascist.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: And she went right to Donald Trump will take away.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: basic rights of women across this country. And so I
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: think translating like fascism is a is a is a identity.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: It's a it's a it's a it's a summary. And actually,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: you have to get into the details with people because
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: people have heard for years all kinds of words that
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: are true to describe Donald Trump. The last group of
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: people we're trying to reach are by Nate, by definition,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: undecided and unmoved by those broad, broad brush characteristics. You
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: have to get into the details.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: I'm a little worried about the balance of the moment
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: and not because of like the message testing of ads.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: It's just because you have to ask yourself, what is
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: breaking through in the closing days? And I do think
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: it is primarily this conversation about Trump and fascism. And
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: I think it's valuable to say the top people that
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: work for him don't trust him to be president again.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: I think that's alarming new information probably for a lot
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: of people, but it's gotten mixed in with conversations about
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: like praising Hitler's generals and things that I think just
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: sound partisan and hyperbolic.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people are, Do you think the
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Harris campaign has done that, though?
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Because we're talking about, like, this is what, I think
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: it's unfair that this, it's like, there's a lot of
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: straw men running around here, which is like, the Harris
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: campaign's leaning in on fascism. No, they're not. Anderson Cooper
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: asked her, do you think he's a fascist? She said yes, right?
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Everything else they've done, their ads, everything else has been
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: about what you said, Lovett, which is conveying what the
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: threat means to people. And so, like, I don't know
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: what else they would do at this point.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not blaming anyone. I'm talking about the closing conversation
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: that people are hearing. And I think it's overly tilted
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: away from an economic message right now in ways that
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: worry me. Because every focus group and piece of polling
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: we see shows you that voters primarily care about those issues.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: And there are also, there's a pretty easy ready-made answer
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: for Trump, which is we saw him for four years.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: People don't think it was that bad. And so some
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: of the language used to describe him can seem ridiculous
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: to people. So that's where my anxiety comes from. And
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: I agree with you. I'm not criticizing their strategy necessarily,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: but you get to decide whether you do a press
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: avail or not. You get to take questions or not.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: You get to decide how you answer things and what
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: you highlight or not. And so it does feel like
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: they are leaning into this. There's a big speech Tuesday
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: at the Ellipse where January 6th started. That is going
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: to lead to a conversation about the 2020 election and
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: the insurrection and Trump's fascistic tendencies. And I just I'm
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: a little worried about that emphasis when a lot of
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: these undecided swing voters are. are like, I don't know,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: but gas was cheaper.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: But this is what drives me sort of crazy, because
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I think that there is a gap between the people
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: who spend their days looking at focus groups and looking
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: at data. I am one of them. If Kamala Harris
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: sat down with a bunch of voters in a focus
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: group who are undecided, and she had a choice of
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: what to say, what she should say to them, of course,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: is a lot of this economic messaging, right? Now, Not
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: all of them, as Binder said. Their research shows, I
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: know that Future Forward has their own research, but the
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Harris campaign research, pretty good too. Their research shows that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: there is some segment of people who, when you tell
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: them that John Kelly said that this man was unfit
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: to serve and he's a four-star general, that gives them
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: pause and that they may not vote for it, right?
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: But I would still say, yes, Kamala Harris should deliver
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: a message on economics, absolutely. The problem is the filter
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: and what gets through to voters. And when you're saying
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: the conversation is, Yeah, it gives me anxiety too, but
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: there's only so much you can control in a campaign.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: And I think if Tuesday, when she does her closing
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: argument speech, she's going to get a lot of press
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: attention because of where the speech is, right? I think
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: if she decided that for her closing argument speech, she
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: was going to go to a grocery store or whatever,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: you could think something better, and just do a big
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: economic speech, it would be a fart in the wind.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: No one would cover it. Voters wouldn't hear it. And
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: then we'd all be happy that she gave the right message,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: but no one would actually hear the message. I mean,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: that's a.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: Look, straw man, like... A fascism speech versus the most
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: boring version of an economic event. Yes, of course. Like
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: you would choose something that was interesting. I think at
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: the end of a campaign, you are far more likely
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: to get coverage and for those things to break through
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: than in any other point. And I'm just worried that
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: the focus right now is about a message that might
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: not be as compelling to these swing voters. I think
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: your job as a campaign is to figure out a
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: way for the thing you want to talk about to
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: break through and get covered. Well, all the ads are
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: doing that. I'm not criticizing them. I'm just saying like
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: when I look at kind of concerns I'm hearing from
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: all these people about slippage and what people are saying
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: they're hearing on the doors about, well, I just want
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: to know about her economic plans and, you know, the
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: need for more information about her. I wonder if a
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: closing focus that is again about Trump is answering the
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: mail with those people.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I also think that she's not going to spend like
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: the setting is the setting. I think the setting gets attention.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: The setting gets press attention. I think that the entire
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: speech will probably be The economic stuff, the contrast, the
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: whole positive vision.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Right, but what breaks through? We're talking about Kill Tony
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: and his comments at Madison Square Garden and not what
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump said.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: But that's not under the control of the Harris campaign.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: I'm saying the setting is where they chose, and that's
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: going to frame up the speech.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: But you said Kill Tony. They don't have anything to
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: do with Kill Tony.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: I'm just making the point that something else can.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: Be the focus of the covered versus the words?
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Like in 2016, I feel like there were a bunch
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: of big mistakes that we had to make because we
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: were running against Trump for the first time. One of
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: those mistakes that I think is absolutely a mistake, but
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: one that's been, I think, laid completely at the feet
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: of the Clinton campaign, what was actually a larger media
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: failing is I think what Tommy is talking about, which
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: is she was traveling the country talking about the economy.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: We always have it. She did a bus tour. Or
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: towards the end, through the Midwest, all about the economy.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: No one fucking heard it.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, she does do this economic message.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: But what's breaking through during that time? It's the anti-Trump message.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: And the anti-Trump message was like, I think, clearly not effective,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: both because he hadn't been president. The people weren't. It
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: was just it was we we failed to make that case.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: The story is about his character.
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: Like him being a shitty guy.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: I think now we have landed on far more effective
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: ways to beat Donald Trump, to make the argument against
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Kamala Harris is very good at making that argument.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: We still have this problem of how do you break
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: through on the economy when the catnip is the more
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: kind of political, exciting, Trump is an extremist threat. Now,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: the good news, right, is replacing Joe Biden with Kamala
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Harris and then like an incredibly well-run campaign over months
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: has like moved the needle on the economy, right? That
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: has absolutely happened.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: It has broken through. Like their strategy has worked so far.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Like she's like almost even with them on the economy
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: in some polls. And even in New York Times-Siena, she
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: like gained, I don't know, seven or eight points.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: And so then I do think like in this last week,
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: how do you do both of those things? I kind
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: of like, I think doing a speech on the national
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: ellipse to just reaffirm that, that, that view that the
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Americans have that Donald Trump is chaotic and dangerous and unstable.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: And like, you can't trust him. Like I think is,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: is worth doing. I think that to me is the
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: right thing to do because of the attention it gets.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: I think the question then is, okay, we've hit that point.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: How in the seven days that follow, do you drive
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: what Tommy's talking about? Because it's really fucking hard to do.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: And you've used your closing speech on the ellipse. You've
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: spent it. That's been spent. So it's hard, but like,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I come down on thinking it's the right place to
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: reach a ton of people.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: With a closing.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: It's an all an opportunity costs. None of it is easy.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: But we're talking about the biggest, most important decisions in
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: the closing week and what we want to get in
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: front of voters. And it just does concern me a
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: little bit like the Michelle Obama speech specifically about reproductive
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: care and access to that care and going in great
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: detail about the horrors that could come from Trump getting
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: four more years. was unbelievably powerful. If that speech was
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: sort of framed as, you know, Trump as dictator, and
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: that was sort of like the prism through which that
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: information got, it just changes the tenor and the way
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: it lands. And I think the likelihood that people get
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: the information you want them to hear.
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I think in her, in her speech, she did
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of Trump as the threat that Trump poses.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: She talks about shooting unarmed protesters, right? Like, look, I
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: think stipulated if you're out there, which no one has done,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: but if you're out there talking about Trump is a fascist.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Trump is a dictator, blah, blah, blah. Like that is bad.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: That is very, very bad. But there are things that
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Trump could do or that he wants to do. that
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: we know from polling is very effective with the voters
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: that we're talking about, right? People don't want him to
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: shoot unarmed protesters. That's not popular. They don't want him
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: to pardon the January 6th protesters. They fucking hate the 2020,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: steal the... This is why the Trump campaign has had
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: an entire strategy to put him on these podcasts. Because
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: they know that if people think that Trump is a threat,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: that they lose. The New York Times today just said
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: that the Trump campaign's actually also worried that some of
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: this Hitler stuff, the John Kelly stuff, is gonna cost
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: them the election, right? So like, I do... I just
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: think that it is I guess I'm not trying to
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: defend the campaign or anything. I'm just trying to put
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: myself in the campaign and events happen. And then it's like,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: what do you do to respond to an event that
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: happens like Madison Square Garden happens? And if she gets
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: off the tarmac and a reporter says, what do you
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: think about Madison Square Garden? I just I think it
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: it it makes me laugh to think of her saying, well,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: I'm just focused on costs.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Well, yes, the dumbest possible answer is not what she's
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: going to say. But there's like J.D. Vance pretended he
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: didn't hear the joke. So he didn't comment on the joke.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: There's a million and one ways to avoid making news
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: on the thing you don't want to avoid on. I'm
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: not saying that's the right thing to do here. I'm
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: just saying it is a strategic choice. And like, do
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: you think there would be a better a better answer
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: off the plane? Like, what do you think that... I
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: don't remember what she said now.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Just the divisiveness thing that you were saying.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: Possibly. I don't know. I have not thought about it
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: until you just asked me. But like you said, running
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: around saying fascism is not the way to go.
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: I agree.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: I don't think they've been doing that. But very recently,
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: she started using the word fascist. Just when Anderson Cooper.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: No. Oh, and then Charlemagne said it.
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: It's been a couple of times.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: She agreed. She didn't use it on her own. The
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: point I'm making is this is what you're responding to events.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: And I think when you... I think there's certain things
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: where like he proposes a very serious threat And she
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: could make the choice to say, no, he's not a fascist. But, like,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's a good choice either.
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: You'd be like, it's a word I haven't used, et cetera.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: I'm saying, like, all we're getting at here is, like,
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: these are purposeful decisions that end up having an impact
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: on what is covered and what the closing message is and.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: What people hear.
• 57:20
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: I'm just... Yeah.
• 57:22
  Speaker 7: I know.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: For sure. I'm just saying it's really.
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: You're heated on this one. No, because I am.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Because I'm heated on it. I'm not... I mean, I'm
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: not mad. I'm just saying, like, I have struggled with
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: this so much because I've seen all the fucking data. Like,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: I don't... all of our friends in the democratic super
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: PACs and everyone else who's saying like, this is bad.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: We got to do more in the economy. I get them.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: I've been there. I've seen the fucking data, but like
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: when this happens on a campaign, a campaign is also
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: about like the exigent events that you are responding to.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: And if you respond in a way that seems like
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: JD Vance seemed like bullshit when he said he hadn't
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: heard the joke, if she had said she hadn't heard
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: the joke, it would have been fucking bullshit. Right. And
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: it's a clearly something that worries the Trump campaign, which
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: is why they walked it back. So of course she
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: should go in on that.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying she shouldn't have said that. I'm just
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: saying like, it's not hard to not make news on
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: things you don't want to. It just really isn't.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: And all I'm saying is I think the critique from
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: the super PACs that somehow the Harris-Walls campaign is not,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: is the strategy is leaning too heavy on the Trump
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: threat is just wrong. I think it's just wrong criticism.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: And then I think they need to close the deal
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: on the economy for sure. But I guess I just,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I'm with Binder, which is like, you really just have
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: to figure out a way to do both.
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: And also just like the, Kamala Harris is running an
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: incredibly impressive campaign in a media environment that sucks and
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: makes Trump possible. And that is the thing. And in
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: the closing days- It's so hard.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: It's so much harder than any other campaign to break
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: through on.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: And so in that context, how do you break through
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: on the economy? What's the balance? Where I kind of
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: land is I have the same worry, Tommy. How do
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: you reach these people? How do you get to this
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: final group of people and make sure they understand the
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: economic stakes? At the same time, he's out there calling
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: people the enemy of the people. He's out there saying
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: these fascistic things. Tucker Carlson, his like fucking mind guru
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: is out there like kind of like addled and claiming
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: that they won't accept the election results. He's planning to
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: not accept these election results. You can go to the ellipse.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: You can tell the truth and somewhere and try to
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: use that to at least. get to some coverage of
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: the economic stakes too i don't know what else.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: I think eight out of ten voters on the doors
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: that you ask if they're going to be like well
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: i don't know what she's going to do for me
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: and then you tell that voter that her plans and
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: that might be your best shot at getting them vote
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: i totally agree.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: The doors might be the best shot but like again
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: it's just you know the campaigns make a lot of
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: choices in donald trump did this goofy ass thing where
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: he worked at McDonald's kind of for an hour. And
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: it was like the thing that more people saw that
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: week when it comes to political news than anything else.
• 59:39
  Speaker 12: It was a.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Creative borderline bizarre choice, but it was really, really, really effective.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: And like, I'm not criticizing the Harris campaign. I'm just
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: saying like your job in the campaign is to find
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: those things that do break through. And that was a
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: really good example.
• 59:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll leave it there. When we come back from
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: the break, you're going to hear Alyssa's interview with Nancy
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Pelosi about pulling off a win next week. But before
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: we do that, this is the part of the show
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: where we beg you to do the most effective thing
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: you can do to beat Donald Trump and win the selection.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: We need you to think of three people in swing states. Arizona, Nevada, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: North Carolina, Georgia. And call or text them now to
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: confirm their voting plans. That would be nice. Or to
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: just try to persuade them if they're thinking about not
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: voting or thinking about voting for Donald Trump.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: And then.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: You can have whatever conversation you want with them. You
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: can say, can I offer you a fascist threat? And
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: if they say, I don't care about that, you can say,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: can I offer you a health care plan?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: Or a McGriddle.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Can I offer you a tariff? Can I offer.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: You reproductive rights? Have you heard about what John Kelly said?
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Have you heard what this hack comedian from Texas said?
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: You can go through a whole list. However long you
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: got on the phone, it's not a 30-second ad. No.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: That's the beauty of a real conversation, and it's with
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: someone you know, so you can really have an interesting conversation.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: If you don't have swing state contacts, that's pretty sad.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: But then ask your contacts if they have swing state contacts.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: And once you've identified some swing state folks who may
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: need some convincing, use Vote Save America's last call tool
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: for easy scripts at votesaveamerica.com slash vote. Also, if you've
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: been scrolling Instagram and feeling some shame and envy about
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: all those cool photos of your friends canvassing to save democracy,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: it's not too late to make a plan to join them.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Just go to votesaveamerica.com and click on I want to volunteer.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: This message has been paid for by Vote Save America.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: This ad has not been authorized by any candidate or
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: candidates committee. When we come back, Speaker Pelosi.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 15: Today I am honored to be able to sit down
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 15: with Speaker Nancy Pelosi representing California's 11th district for the
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 15: last 37 years.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 15: Inductee to the National Women's Hall of Fame in Seneca Falls,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 15: recipient of the nation's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 15: of Freedom. Also, New York Times bestselling author of The
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 15: Art of Power, which I cannot recommend enough. Madam Speaker,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 15: by my math, this is your eighth presidential election since
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 15: coming to Congress. We are nearing election day. What is
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 15: keeping you.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Up at night?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 13: Well, I'm just, how can I say this? I'm not
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 13: up at night. I'm very happy about it. Oh, good. See,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 13: I'm a former chair of the California Democratic Party. And
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 13: so my whole thrust in politics is own the ground.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 13: So it's wonderful to have the, we have to have
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 13: the mobilization on the ground. We have to have the message,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 13: which is unifying and not menacing, but is bold and progressive,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 13: but not menacing. And we have to have the money
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 13: to get the job done. The money's coming in. The
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 13: message is in the hands of the candidate. The mobilization
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 13: is what matters now. And I'm traveling all over for
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 13: some House races as well as presidential. And I feel
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 13: very good about the fact that everybody knows it's in
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 13: their hands. You know, people say, have my fingers crossed.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 13: I said, uncross them and make calls. Make calls. Or text.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 15: Send a postcard.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 13: Or knock on doors. Or go walk precincts. But no
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 13: fingers crossed. Okay, good.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 15: Well, then I'm feeling good. So last week, Donald Trump
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 15: referred to you again as the enemy within. He also
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 15: said that January 6th was a beautiful thing and that
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 15: it was all about love and peace. Your disdain and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 15: dislike for the former president is pretty well documented at
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 15: this point. But did these comments scare you any more
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 15: than things he's previously said?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 13: Well, we've already borne the brunt of his hatred, as
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 13: you probably are aware. There's something– this person is not
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 13: on the level. You understand. He is– anytime he says something,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 13: he's projecting his own self. He is the enemy within.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 13: And that's why this election is so important. But when
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 13: he says me– talks about me or Adam Schiff or that,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 13: he's really talking about the American people. And I think
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 13: that– Vice President Harris has been very good about making
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 13: that clear. When he's talking about the enemy within, he's
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 13: talking about the American people. I myself think we're going
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 13: to win this election because of the goodness of the
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 13: American people, not because of the enemy within. I think
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 13: the American people, when it comes right down to it,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 13: will understand that you cannot elect a person of such vulgarity,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 13: such misrepresentation, such insulting the intelligence of the American people.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 13: It was not a day of love. It was a
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 13: tragedy for our nation. People ended up dying from it,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 13: many injured from it, and that just goes to show.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 13: But I think that there's a judgment out there that
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 13: may not be very loud, but it's very strong.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 15: So you were just in Florida for a women's Get
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 15: Out the Vote breakfast.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 15: Where you discussed the state's Amendment 4, which would codify
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 15: abortion rights. How important has reproductive rights been as an
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 15: issue for Democrats this cycle, both at the top of
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 15: the ticket and down ballot?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 13: Vitally important. Reproductive rights, very important. I just recall to
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 13: mind that two years ago, in 22, the off year,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 13: people said we were going to lose 30 or 40 seats.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 13: And I said, they just don't know what they're talking about.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 13: They make collect high salaries, but they ain't on the
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 13: ground and they don't know what's happening. Because we knew
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 13: that that issue was very important. And they said, she,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 13: meaning me, I owed an apology to the Democrats for
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 13: putting that in the forefront. Didn't I know it was
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 13: in the rearview mirror and people didn't care that much.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 13: But we know how those members voted and we know
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 13: how our candidates were opposing the They opposed putting Roe v.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 13: Wade into law, and they even opposed women having a
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 13: right to contraception. And they opposed anything to do with
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 13: climate crisis, gun violence prevention, all of that. But the
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 13: women's issue, the reproductive health issue, is primary. And as
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 13: you know, we lost five seats in New York.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 11: I know.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 13: And that's for a lot of different reasons, but... Hopefully
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 13: we win them back this time. But I have no
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 13: doubt that we will win the House of Representatives. Hakeem
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 13: Jeffries will be the speaker. He must be the speaker.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 13: He must be the speaker for all the issues we
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 13: care about, but also on January 6th to protect our democracy.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 15: So it's October. October surprises throughout the years are of
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 15: great lore. And in 2008, I was on the Obama campaign.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 15: Many consider the financial crisis and the record rise in
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 15: unemployment as.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 13: The October surprise of that election.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 15: But in 2008, weeks before the presidential election, Congress came
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 15: together to keep the economy from going over a cliff.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 15: Do you think Congress could come together today to solve
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 15: a problem that catastrophic?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 13: We would have to. You remember that President Bush was
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 13: president at the time when this happened. And it was
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 13: the generosity and the really responsible attitude of the Democrats
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 13: that saved the day. Let's be sure to point that
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 13: out because Republicans never lived up to their commitment to
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 13: have 100 votes to pass this. I do believe it
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 13: was the reason we lost the House in 2010.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 13: Because we had to save the day. And people thought
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 13: we were bailing out Wall Street, we're bailing out the economy.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 13: And we always agreed that whatever we did would be bipartisan,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 13: but they didn't do their share. So we had to
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 13: weigh in more heavily. But nonetheless, as you indicate, it
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 13: was bipartisan. We got the job done. I don't know
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 13: that anything like that could happen under Trump because he
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 13: doesn't have it. The only thing he did when he
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 13: was president of the United States with a Republican majority,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 13: was to give a tax break, to have a tax bill,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 13: a tax bill that gave 83% of the benefits to
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 13: the top 1%, added $ 2 trillion to the national debt
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 13: to give tax breaks to the richest and biggest corporate
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 13: America and individuals as well. And he says that's what
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 13: his agenda is. to renew that tax cut. But at
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 13: this point, it will be more like $ 5 trillion to
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 13: the national debt. So it's hard to imagine anything. We
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 13: tried to do uh, infrastructure with him. He wouldn't do it. Well,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 13: let me just say this. Why am I even talking
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 13: about him being president? Kamala Harris will be president of
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 13: the United States.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 14: Yes, ma'am.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 13: And, uh, because of the rules of the Senate with
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 13: the 60 votes and the rest, we would have to
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 13: have bipartisanship to get something big done. Uh, let us
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 13: always think that, uh, that that sense of responsibility will
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 13: enable the Republicans to come on board. If we make
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 13: our compromise, they have to make theirs. But that's our responsibility.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 13: We have a responsibility to strive for bipartisanship, to be
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 13: accountable to the public about that, and have transparency so
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 13: the public knows.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 15: In 2007, you were elected first woman Speaker of the House.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 15: You have been the most powerful woman in politics since—
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 15: And you made the decision to step down from leadership.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 15: It takes women so long to break the glass ceiling.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 15: Why did you make the choice? What did you hope for?
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 13: And were you right? Well, yes, I was right, of course.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 13: But let me just say that it's not a glass
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 13: ceiling in the Congress. It's a marble ceiling.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 12: Oh, yes.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 13: It's a much tougher thing, obstacle to break. No, I
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 13: thought it was right. I was excited about it.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 13: People ask me, was it right? Yes, I was full
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 13: of excitement about it. The only thing I regretted was
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 13: that it wasn't going to be in the majority. See,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 13: I thought we could win it, even though they said 30,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 13: 40 seats was five seats. But I stayed in order
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 13: to make sure that What's-His-Name doesn't set foot in the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 13: White House again and to make sure that Hakeem Jeffries
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 13: has that gavel. But I've been there 20 years. I mean,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 13: 20 years either— Eight as speaker, 12 as leader.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 12: Right.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 13: And it's a major responsibility. And, you know, legislatively, politically, fundraising-wise.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 13: I was proud of what we had done, but I
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 13: was glad others were willing to carry the load.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 15: So you were just telling me you've been in Boston
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 15: today already campaigning. You're here in New York City campaigning.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 15: you are then heading out and crossing the country campaigning
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 15: for Democrats. So one of my favorite memories was hearing
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 15: Barbara Mikulski, who served as U.S. Senator for 30 years
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 15: before retiring. I saw her speak once about her first
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 15: run in Congress in 1976. And she talked about how
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 15: she raised money through bake sales for Barb. So how
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 15: has campaigning changed over the years? With the advent of
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 15: social media, do you think it's become more inclusive?
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 13: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 13: Separate in part from the advent of social media, there
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 13: was a decision made. When I went to Congress in
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 13: 37 years ago, a few years after Barbara went to
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 13: the Senate, and we're all so proud of her, there
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 13: were 435 members of Congress, and that is the number.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 13: There were 23 women, 12 Democrats, 11 Republicans. That was
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 13: absolutely unacceptable. So we made a decision to recruit, to train,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 13: to fund, to accept self-recruitment and that. And then this Congress,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 13: I'm very proud that we have 94 women.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 11: Right.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 13: And we're going to get more in this next election.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 13: Because it was a decision. And social media is a
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 13: double-edged sword. Some of it's positive. Some of it is not.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 13: But all of it is about women. And, of course,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 13: we want minority, even with more diversity. Our caucus, our
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 13: House Democratic Caucus, I'm proud to say, is 70% women,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 13: people of color, LGBTQ. It's a fabulous statement about a
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 13: political party and a Congress, a parliament, or whatever. And
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 13: we still want more. But it was a decision. It
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 13: wasn't just happened because of social media.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 13: And social media can be a danger too because when
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 13: I'm trying to encourage women to run or talk to
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 13: those who have decided they're going to run, they're always
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 13: concerned about the negative aspects of it. I could never
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 13: subject my family to what you've been through. I'm not
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 13: even talking about the physical violence of Donald Trump's friends.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 13: I'm talking about the– just you become a target. That's
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 13: just the way it is. And they know that women–
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 13: here's the way I see it. They know that women
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 13: have a reputation for being more ethical. It's just the
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 13: way it is. That's the way it is. So what
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 13: do they do to our women candidates? They attack their
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 13: ethical standing by saying things, make them up, they're not
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 13: even true. And if your child hears that, that their
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 13: classmate heard that on TV– And comes home crying, is
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 13: this worth it?
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 13: So we have to get rid of that politics of
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 13: personal destruction, which really became a factor during the 90s.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 13: When Newt Gingrich became speaker, he really did that. Went
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 13: after the Clintons, as you know, Hillary Clinton so much.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 13: And we just have to take it down to we're
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 13: a democracy. We have differences of opinions. Let's express those differences.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 13: Let people judge what it means to them without trying
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 13: to say things that really— I have no doubt that
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 13: the things they said about me when I was speaker
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 13: and the rest and became speaker and all that on
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 13: the Republican side contributed to the assault on my husband.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 15: So I remember— At Senator Harry Reid's funeral, President Obama
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 15: talked about how Reid was the epitome of progress over perfection.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 15: And I wanted to know if you had any words
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 15: for folks who are sitting on the sidelines right now,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 15: who are still undecided about whether to vote for Kamala
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 15: Harris on November 5th, specifically for folks who think she's
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 15: not progressive enough.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, come on.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 13: Excuse me. Well, that was a beautiful word that the
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 13: president said about Harry was wonderful and he was masterful.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 13: And I miss him every day. I have two words
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 13: to say to people who say she's not progressive enough.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 13: Donald Trump, a tragedy for our country if he were
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 13: ever to be elected. Everything that we care about or
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 13: have done would be obliterated by him. Somebody said to
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 13: me the other day, what's the difference between the Democrats
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 13: and Republicans and how you treat poor children? I said,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 13: we do, and they don't. That's just the way it is. So,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 13: you know, with all due respect to that, and I'm
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 13: a progressive from San Francisco, and what the thing is,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 13: is that we have to win in the whole country.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 13: And when I was invited by the governor of Michigan
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 13: to be there for events, I said then, What works
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 13: in Michigan works in San Francisco, working class message. What
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 13: works in San Francisco may not work in Michigan. Let's win, baby.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 14: Okay?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 13: So if they have ideas that they want to develop
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 13: at the local level and have them become something that
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 13: have national acceptance, that's what this is about. That's what
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 13: I did. I mean, I came at it very differently.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 13: from the left in San Francisco, but I know you
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 13: have to govern from the center. So I just say
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 13: to them, everything that we did, Joe Biden was a
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 13: fabulous president, consequential. Our agenda was beautiful from all the bills,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 13: the rescue package with the child tax credit, the infrastructure
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 13: bill with all the jobs, the PACT Act for our veterans,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 13: the CHIPS Act for our economy and for involving women
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 13: in ownership as well as jobs, and to save the planet,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 13: the biggest commitment of any country ever, $ 370 billion to
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 13: save the planet, that's very progressive. And it would be
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 13: all negated, lowering the cost of prescription drugs, lowering the
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 13: cost of insulin. That's not what they're there for. They're
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 13: taking us to court on some of those things. And
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 13: Trump has sat down with, oh, I said his name.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 13: I know, you don't like to do that. I don't
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 13: like to do it, slip down. Sat down with the
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 13: fossil fuel industry and said, give me a billion dollars
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 13: and I'll get rid of all this other stuff. So
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 13: I just have two words for them, Donald Trump. Bless
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 13: your hearts for your sincerity and the rest, as I
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 13: say that as a San Francisco liberal, very close to
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 13: my constituents. And I had a lot of those signs
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 13: in my basement for 40 years. But right now, we
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 13: want to win the White House. And if they think
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 13: that giving a vote to a third party or something
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 13: like that is courageous, no, it's dangerous.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 14: It is dangerous.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 15: So I did want to ask, you mentioned your husband, Paul.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 15: And shortly after he was brutally attacked, Trump took to
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 15: Twitter and made a joke about it.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 15: And minutes after Trump was grazed by a bullet in Butler, Pennsylvania,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 15: you released a statement on Twitter that read in part,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 15: As one whose family has been the victim of political violence,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 15: I know firsthand that political violence of any kind has
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 15: no place in our society. Thank God that former President
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 15: Trump is safe. Having walked in his shoes, how depraved
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 15: does it seem that he couldn't wish you and your
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 15: husband well?
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 13: I think it's indicative of who he is. That's why
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 13: I come back to the goodness of the American people.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 13: This is a person who has no respect for other people.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 13: He's all about himself and his rich friends at the
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 13: expense of other people. He exploits fears and concerns that
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 13: people have about how they will survive economically in a
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 13: time of globalization, a time of innovation. He sells them
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 13: a bill of goods. And again, there's cultural issues like
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 13: guns and gays, as they call it, 3Gs, guns, gays,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 13: and God, can you believe it? As a mother of
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 13: five and six years and seven days, I have something
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 13: to say about that. But this is not a person
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 13: that you would even let in your house, much less
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 13: into the White House of the United States. He is vulgar, grotesque.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 13: He is unpatriotic. We know that he is demonstrating characteristics
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 13: that can be considered fascist. And how people respond to
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 13: him because he, again, he sells a good bill of goods.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 13: But if his lips are moving, he ain't telling the truth.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 15: You came to Congress in 1987. You came to Congress
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 15: to fight for children and HIV AIDS. What do you
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 15: consider the biggest fight still ahead?
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 13: You mentioned the social media earlier. It's not about what
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 13: the fight is. It's about how the fight is conducted.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 13: President Lincoln, let the record show I'm quoting a Republican president.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 13: President Lincoln said, public sentiment is everything. With it, you
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 13: can accomplish almost anything. Without it, practically nothing. But for
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 13: public sentiment to prevail, people have to know. And that
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 13: is what I think the challenge has been in this administration.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 13: We did great things, but the bully pulpit of the
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 13: White House did not showcase them so that the president's
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 13: numbers were like a 37%. So the challenge is not
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 13: the issue. The challenge is the presentation. Now, on the issue,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 13: we build consensus. We reach across the aisle to try
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 13: to have bipartisan support for so many things. But the
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 13: public really has to be aware of that because some
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 13: of it takes a great deal of courage for our members,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 13: not me, because I represent beautiful San Francisco, but it
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 13: takes a deal of courage for them to vote for
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 13: in their districts, especially since the other side will try
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 13: to misrepresent what it is. So the point is, as
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 13: I always say, I can bake the pie or I
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 13: can sell the pie, but I can't do them both
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 13: at once. So there has to be A recognition. As
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 13: we did the Affordable Care Act, we just went out
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 13: there and mobilized and mobilized and mobilized. And that's the
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 13: way we passed it, and that's how we saved it,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 13: because of the engagement of the public. So I would
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 13: say as we go forward, there's a care agenda that
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 13: has to happen in our country. We are, I think,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 13: the only developed nation that does not have affordable child care.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 13: The child tax credit is so important. Home health care
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 13: for our seniors. Family and medical leave. So if you
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 13: want to talk about how we can make a big
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 13: difference in our economy, it's the fullest empowerment of women
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 13: and caregivers. They may be men, too, in the workplace.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 13: And we have to make sure that the public is
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 13: aware of it so it is not misrepresented to them
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 13: by the other side that does not believe In governance.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 13: They don't believe in science, so don't do anything about climate.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 13: Because you've invented the climate crisis, right? Weather service, that's
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 13: why they want to privatize it. The education, they're going
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 13: to abolish the Department of Education. And the EPA.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: EPA.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 13: What is this? Okay, so let's go right to your
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 13: kitchen table. Let's go right to your kitchen table. You
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 13: have to make ends meet. The cost of child care
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 13: is huge. Cost of housing is huge. The cost of
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 13: care for your older parent or sibling in addition to
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 13: children is hard. It's expensive, but it's also hard to
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 13: get the kind of safe care that you need. We
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 13: really have to change that. We had it in the
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 13: Build Back Better bill. We couldn't get it completely. We
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 13: got most of it, but we didn't get what I
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 13: just named, paid family and medical leave. affordable child care,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 13: child tax credit. We had $ 400 billion in the bill
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 13: for home health care for senior siblings, in addition to children.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 13: So I think the empowerment of women, when women succeed,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 13: America succeeds. And we want women, when they're in the workplace,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 13: to be fully present. They always worry about families. We
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 13: all do. But if you have the assurance that The
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 13: care is safe and good, and it is affordable to you.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 13: I think that women will make bigger strides even in
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 13: the workplace, in our economy, in our national security, in
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 13: our politics, in our government, in academia, in every way.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 15: So speaking of women, you ran for Congress in your
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 15: late 40s. Toni Morrison wrote The Bluest Eye in her
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 15: late 40s. Julia Child was 49 when she published Mastering
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 15: the Art of French Cooking. What should women know about
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 15: the second half of life? What changes as we age?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 13: Well, for me, my children grew up. It was about them.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 13: Once they were in school all day and five children
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 13: in six years and seven days, that was quite an
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 13: occupying force. I had never intended to run for office.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 13: I wasn't even interested in it. In fact, I avoided it.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 13: I mean, I didn't even avoid it. I didn't even
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 13: think of it. And then when the opportunity came along,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 13: and then I ran, and they said, you'll love it
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 13: because you love the issues. That's why you're involved in politics.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 13: They were right. I loved it. And then when I
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 13: was there, then they said, now you have to run
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 13: for leadership after a few years. And I said, no,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 13: I like the issue. I love what I'm doing. One
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 13: thing and another, but Again, we were losing. We lost 94, 96, 98.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 13: And I said, okay, I'll take some responsibility in the 2000s.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 13: And then we won. I became speaker. So when I
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 13: go housewife, house member, house speaker, my motivation was for
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 13: the children. I always tell people, know your why. Know
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 13: why you are doing this because you're going to get
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 13: the slings and arrows and everything else. And it's all
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 13: worth it if you know why you're there. And mine
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 13: was– The children writ large, but specifically when I went there,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 13: it was about the AIDS crisis as well.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 15: So I have to ask you, what's your secret to
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 15: being able to spend all day in sky-high heels that
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 15: would take down the average 35-year-old?
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 13: The dark, I think dark chocolate, very dark chocolate.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 15: What is your favorite dark chocolate?
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 13: Oh, well, it just depends if it's ice cream or
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 13: if it's candy or whatever it is. I said when
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 13: I left the hotel in Boston this morning, I had
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 13: chocolate ice cream in the refrigerator. And I said to Ian,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 13: I said, I just drank the chocolate ice cream because
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 13: it didn't freeze in the refrigerator. No, I think some
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 13: of it is being Italian-American. I just have this... not
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 13: enough hours in the day to get all the things
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 13: done that I want. I think part of it is
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 13: raising five children. You're always working. You don't even have
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 13: time to wash your face. You know, it's constant. And
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 13: then you multitask, you get it done. So it is,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 13: I don't know, I largely attribute it to chocolate. Dark,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 13: very dark.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 15: Is a dessert a dessert if it's not chocolate?
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 13: No, I mean, people give you, like, fruit or something.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 13: I think that's a nice vegetable or fruit, but it's
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 13: not dessert. That's not Ms. Lidar's. And then so sometimes
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 13: that happens. People put like, oh, I just made this thing.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 13: I say, that's nice. I was like, I'll consider it
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 13: like a piece of bread or I'll consider it if
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 13: it's a pastry or I'll consider it a vegetable if
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 13: it's fruit, you know, a fresh something. No, it's chocolate.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 13: And people know it. I mean, it saves me a
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 13: lot because Do.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 15: You know how I know it? Because when we first
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 15: came to the White House, when Rahm Emanuel was chief
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 15: of staff, he would call me and he'd say, honey,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 15: which is not sexist. Everyone listening because he called David
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 15: Axelrod honey, too. He'd say, honey, Nancy's coming down. And
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 15: I'm only calling you Nancy because that's what he said.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 15: He said, where are the best chocolate croissants? And so
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 15: even though I was an assistant to the president. I
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 15: was in charge of the chocolate croissants that we got
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 15: for you because he said she will be happy if
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 15: we have chocolate.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 13: I remember going to my first lunch with President Obama
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 13: in that little lunch.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 11: Yeah. place.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 13: And he said, first we're going to start. And he
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 13: had dark chocolate candy with sea salt sprinkled on top.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 13: That's the first time I had that. It was delicious.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 13: But I'm a connoisseur. And I'm not, you know, I'm
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 13: not indiscriminate.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 13: It's not just any chocolate. And I don't like it adulterated.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 13: Somebody will say, oh, this is great. It's got hazelnut
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 13: in it. I say, that's good. You enjoy it. You
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 13: enjoy your chocolate.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 15: So, but if I want a chocolate bar, what should
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 15: I put in my bag?
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 13: Oh, no. Let me just say this. I like very
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 13: dark chocolate.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 11: But.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 13: A good Hershey's with almonds never offended anybody.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 15: Well, Madam Speaker, thank you so much for talking to
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 15: me today. And listeners, don't forget to head over to votesaveamerica.com
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 15: slash 2024 and make sure you're all set for Election Day.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 13: And make sure they do their calls.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 15: Do your calls, your postcards, drive people to the polls,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 15: be a poll worker.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: Do all of it.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 13: It all is in their hands. Madam Speaker, thank you.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 13: Thank you so much.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: All right, before we go, one of the best memes
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: of the Kamala Harris era.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: This is going now after Pelosi?
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: She's going to be really happy. Do you think she'll
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: be as happy or happier than Brian Schatz?
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: Better than the lead-in.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: The meme got an important update on Sunday, courtesy of
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani, whose stirring speech we did not play a
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: clip from yet. And we felt a journalistic responsibility to
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: share the whole new meme with you that we've updated.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 4: Do not come. Do not come.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: I'm going to come.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 8: There's no place in America the president shouldn't be able
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 8: to come.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, does Rudy have a point?
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: No, he doesn't.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: We learned that clearly in the Clinton impeachment.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: No, there are places where the president shouldn't go. Absolutely.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: Or come.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: His speech was fucking nuts.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: He's lost it, man. I mean, he had to give
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: up his apartment. to the election workers from Georgia, which
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: is fucking awesome. He had to give the election workers
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: a Mercedes that once belonged to Lauren Bacall. What, really?
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: If this was tested, that clip, do you think that
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: would move some voters off the fence?
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: I think we could get people going with that thing.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think it'll help Rudy's mayor campaign.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: You think he's going to take one more run out
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: after Adams?
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: By the way, just going to once again throw out
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: my terrible prediction that if Donald Trump wins, Eric Adams,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I thought you were going to say pardon.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like, obviously, the pardon.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the pardon's happening. Rudy hasn't been sober since the
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: Bush administration.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: That's our show for today. Thanks to Speaker Pelosi and
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: to Alyssa for that great conversation.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Speaker Pelosi.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: So great to have you.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: We love our guests.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 3: We love our guests.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 5: Love it.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: And our buddy Tim Miller of The Bulwark will be
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: back on Wednesday with a new show. Bye, everybody. If
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more...
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at cricket.com
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: slash friends. And if you're already doom scrolling, don't forget
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: to follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: a review to help boost this episode or spice up
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: the group chat by sharing it with friends, family, or
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: randos you want in on this conversation. Pod Save America
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: is a Cricket Media production. Our producers are David Toledo
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Reid
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: Cherlin is our executive editor and Adrian Hill is our
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: DeGroat is our head of production. Andy Taft is our
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hethcote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel,
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: Kirill Pelleviv and David Toles.