Latest / Hart & Hustle Podcast / How One Woman's Journey Transformed Her from Banker to Community Leader in Guatemala
Transcript
- Efrain: Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We got Miss Caroline in the building. How you doing today, ma'am? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): doing great. How are you? Efrain: Good. You said that it is very cold in Boston. Is that where you're located today? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yes, it's getting chillier here in in Somerville, Massachusetts, but we're excited for Halloween and the and the colder weather too. Efrain: Got it. I is I would actually start there. What is your favorite holiday? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Halloween is close. I think I'd actually have to say All Saints Day, which is the first of November, and when I'm in Guatemala, is my absolute favorite holiday. What about you? it's so fun. You Efrain: What does that look like? What does Saint Days look like? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): get to go to you you go to the cemeteries and you have like a meal with your, you know, your people that you've lost. And so you share, you leave things for them and and then the other piece that they do in Guatemala is they fly kites in the cemetery. They they put little notes on kites and believe that it can go and their their loved ones that they've lost can read the notes. So it's really, really a cool, a cool holiday. Efrain: Is that where you're from? Guatemala? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): I'm not from Guatemala. My husband is from Guatemala and my work is in Guatemala, and so I have a very special place in my heart. Efrain: you d you don't get scared going to a cemetery and and doing that? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): At the beginning I was a little like, what are we doing? Efrain: Ha ha ha. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): What's what's going on here? But but then again, when you're in a different country, you kind of just have to accept that things are going to be different. And and now I I've learned to absolutely love it. It's my my favorite my favorite thing. Efrain: That is crazy. I was I was actually in Boston earlier this year, maybe. And the where I would always kind of hang out was by the cemetery, just because it was by it was just like a it was more like a it meant something because it was like a park cemetery and then they had all these things around it. And I would tell my wife when I'm talking to, she's like, Where you're at? I'm like, I'm just sitting in front of the cemetery because they had park benches and stuff like that. And she's like, What? She's like, What you you gotta get away? I'm like, babe, I'm just hanging out with the dead. Like it's completely cool. Like they're not gonna come after me. If anything, they're not coming after me. So that you say that Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Ha ha ha. Efrain: is so funny. Some people will be really terrified to do that, but I can see why it's being done, right? Just be there with those that you love. I think that's that's actually cool. I just in America we do things a little different, right? People you you tell that to Americans and they're looking like like you're crazy. Like, what do you mean you're sitting here hanging out with the dead? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah. Efrain: But it I also think about is it Coco? Is the movie Coco, right? Is that Coco? Yeah. It is, it's a pretty Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Love that movie. Efrain: good movie. So you said your work is in G Guatemalas. Exactly. What's the organization that you're doing? What are some of the things that you guys do? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah, so our organization is called Nuya. It's Kakchiquel, which is an indigenous Maya language for and it means the cycle of giving. And so we'll get into and talk more about how we really live that cycle of giving. But our work is with indigenous women in Guatemala, and they work in their own communities to improve health and education in different programs. so we have a leadership academy where the women come in and then we work they work in their own communities on a maternal and child wellness program for pregnant women and young children, a health program in primary schools. So making sure simple things like that the kids have toilet paper is one big thing that we that they never have in their schools. So we make sure they have the supplies they need, but then also the education around it to make sure we have healthy kiddos going to school. And then education, our literacy program and the these women do all of it and they do it really, really in in an incredible way. And so that's the that's the work that we do in in Guatemala. And Efrain: Love it. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): well I look forward to being able to talk more about this the individual women that make the difference and and the work that they do. But yeah. Efrain: I love that. How big is the organization? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): So we work with around 2,000, a little over 2,000 participants in, you know, 50 different communities throughout these two municipalities in Guatemala that we work in. They have some really tiny communities, some larger communities, but about fifty communities that that we cover. and we have 30 staff all together in mostly in Guatemala. Almost all of our staff is in Guatemala. There are a few of us here in the US supporting, but but yeah, so small but mighty organization. Efrain: What what brings you to something like this? I mean, you talk about this is a whole different country, you're not from Guatemala, so there's something unique there on what really brings you to that table. How did you get here? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah, good question. I it was funny. I remember being in college and thinking, I want to join the Peace Corps. And and I went to the career services place because that's where you were supposed to go, right? And and talk to them about, you know, I think I want to join join the Peace Corps. And I don't know if I just w didn't seem decisive enough or whether they kind of steered everyone away, but I remember them saying to me, you should join the real world first, in quotes. because you know, then if you still have that bug of the Peace Corps, then you know, down the road you could you could join. And so I did that. I went and worked at a bank. And Efrain: Fun, fun times, fun times. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): I I did a leadership program, I did a management program at a at a bank, and and you know, I I I actually really enjoyed this aspect. I was in the retail banking world and I was there. In 2008 when you know the banking world took turned Efrain: Yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): on its head as well. and I enjoyed being able to to work with customers, to speak with them, but I did have this thing that I really wanted to go to another country and learn from people in another country and be able to do whatever I could to help. and so I I applied to the Peace Corps. And at that point with Peace Corps, you could give kind of preferences, but you didn't get to choose where you went. And I think Peace Corps could not have matched me with a better country than Guatemala. I was so excited to to be able to go down to to Guatemala. And I remember when I was first in Peace Corps, we did interviews or we chatted with our country director. And I told her that story that they told me I should go into the real world first. And she kind of patted my hand in a like knowing way, you know, there was Probably 30 Efrain: Yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): years difference between her and me. And she had lived it through a lot of things. And she just patted my hand and said, I think you'll find this is the real world. And Efrain: The real world, yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): and it's just a thing that I've never wanted to go back. You know, I think I I've found my path and I've found something that really, really means a lot to me. And so that was how I got to Guatemala, and then being able to find. this organization that does work that's so important in in Guatemala and be able to continue working there. my husband is from Guatemala and two of my kids were born in Guatemala and so so I have a lot of a lot of of love. Efrain: Wow. But you're not from Guatemala. Where are you from? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): I'm from kind of central New York area. So yeah. Efrain: Wow how cool. Wait, did you meet your husband Guatemala? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yes, he was yep. He I met him, he was he didn't work for Peace Corps, but he he kind of supported us with Peace Corps and I met him in the first few months of of living there and and and yeah, then we lived for nine years in Guatemala Efrain: Yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): and now we've been back in the US for about six or seven years too. So Efrain: I love that for you. Yes. That's what it looks like to get uncomfortable. Got your whole husband and all, the whole family. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): For sure. Learning two different languages that I didn't know. I had some Spanish background, but definitely didn't speak it fluently. And then the language that was spoken in the community where I lived was Cacchical. And so it was learning a whole nother language as as well and a whole lot of uncomfortable, but definitely worth it. Efrain: Where do you get this this drive from, this fight to just want to do better, want to learn? You know, it it's no easy task to go to another country and do the work that you do. Where does that all stem from? Where do you is it just kind of your family? Is it people that you've come across that drive you? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah, that's a good question. I think that I I have definitely had the support of my family to be myself and do whatever I I wanted to do. And I was always a kid that was noticing injustices and not happy with it. You know, I was the kind of kid that in school the teachers would be like, can you stop trying to make sure so and so is okay and just worry about yourself and and things like that. But If I saw, you know, somebody wasn't being treated fairly or something wasn't working, you know, the way that it should have been working for the people who are maybe the most vulnerable in in some ways, then I was always the one that was going to to point that out. But then also try to figure out a way to to make it work, you know, try to figure out a way to make it better. and so I think I think it's yeah, I think my family supported that a lot and that there's a lot in me that just really doesn't You know, it doesn't appreciate injustices and and does realize the privilege that that I have and and that I need to be able to support other people in the way that I can. Efrain: And I know you said you this all s kind of kind of started in in a transactional part of college. Did you what were you going to school for? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): I was a political science major. and I it was funny because I went to I did a semester in Washington DC through my college, and I had the amazing opportunity to work to intern at the Supreme Court in in Washington and it was so crazy. And you know, I met most of the Supreme Court justices. I I was working in the mailroom, so I wasn't like doing anything. important, but I I was in that building and doing really cool, seeing really cool things happening. I could go listen to arguments. And and so of course the like natural path was to become an a a an a lawyer, right? Or an attorney. And I said, I already worked at the Supreme Court. Like I don't I don't really need I don't I don't really need that. And I'm not sure that that's kind of the path that I that I want to go down. And so so I think Listening to that internal voice too really helped me because I don't know that I would have been happy in a in that role. So Efrain: What makes you w what do you think makes you different? I mean, there's in order to do the work that we do, we gotta be a little crazy and a little different, you know, I believe. what do you think makes you different? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): You know, that's a good question. I don't know that there's anything, honestly, that that makes me different in the sense of I think we all have in us something and I think what can make us different is finding mentors, finding people that support us, finding people that believe in us. This is a theme throughout our organization that we believe in the women that are our leaders before they believe in their sel in themselves. And I think having somebody believe in me before I believed in myself is something that not everybody has. And so Efrain: Yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): is there something in me that makes me different? I I I don't really think so, but I think being able to have the support and being willing to step out on the edge and maybe risk failing, maybe risk having, you know, uncomfortable or difficult moments. you know, that might be something that some people don't always do for different reasons. finding what we're passionate about is really where it's at. Efrain: you've sat here and lived the life that you wanted. Not that someone was going to curate for you. do. Okay, if you want me to do this, but I really want to do that, right? And you found your way to go do that. I think there's some people get stuck in being comfortable. You love to be uncomfortable. You talk about learning different languages. You know, I think it's always one of those crazy things because it is who you are and you can't change it. You know, sometimes I want to change Like, man, I why can't I be a couch potato? Why am I always working, you know, trying Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah. Efrain: to help, trying to do this? And it's like, that's not in us, right? That's just not what God has really provided for us, is really for us to be that voice for those that don't, as you mentioned, don't see themselves yet. And I love that you said, someone's seen something in me more before I was able to see something in myself. That is so crucial that we as individuals now in the seats that we are in, we help somebody else get to that table. You know, I hear so many amazing stories of people that just were seen for the first time and it changes their lives because for so long someone may tell them that they couldn't, that they're that it's not possible. And I know you've heard that plenty of times in your life, but you've never accepted that. And now you're working with this organization where you're working with ladies to help them understand that they too can reach the heights that you've reached. Tell us a little bit about that. What does that actually look like? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah, I mean that's I want them to reach further than than I could ever reach, and particularly in their own communities, because that's that's the difference. So at New York, we do what a lot of other organizations do. We try to improve health and education in places where there are few government resources or opportunities for people. And and in our case, that's in indigenous communities in in rural Guatemala, right? But We do it in a really different way. So we don't go into the communities assuming, you know, I wouldn't go into the community assuming I'm the expert on that community. The expertise already exists there. And so our job is to recognize the leadership that these that other people in the community and the women themselves haven't yet recognized. And then we invest on in it. So a traditional nonprofit model might. Hire professionals and deliver programs, and the communities are there to receive the programs. And in a certain sense, that works, right? Because there are needs in all of the communities. But I think one of the biggest things that I've learned and we've learned as an organization over the last, you know, almost 20 years of doing this is that the closer we get to the community, the better our programs are going to be. And so we turn this model on its head and we decide okay, let's take participants and have them volunteer with the organization and then have them become staff members and then have them create and deliver the programs in their own communities. So our former program participants are leading our maternal and child wellness program, our health program, our education program. They're the people who are doing the work in their communities, and they can do it in a way. That I really never could. Like, I I remember one time I went to a maternal and child wellness workshop in one of our communities, and two of our staff members were there. And one of them, her name was Monica, and she has many indigenous women in Guatemala, Indigenous Maya women, have like a very calm, reserved presence. They've been through a a lot. Historically and personally, a lot of times, and they just have this very calm, kind of quiet, reserved presence. And so, you know, me being this outgoing foreigner, it's like, let's jump in and do all of all of the things. And Monica sat and started chatting with the women, and of course, she's doing it in Quiche, a language Efrain: Yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): that I don't speak, and that it is their first language, and some of them only speak quiche. And while her partner was weighing and measuring babies, she's chatting with the moms and she's hearing, you know, I'm picking up some of what she what they're saying, and she's hearing about challenges they're having with their children's, you know, health. My child isn't, you know, it won't eat different things. You know, my baby is having trouble with this, or my child just got sick, or my child's doing really well. They're Growing faster than I expected, you know, all of these different like spectrum of things. And she's having the conversation so that she's then able to put in those kind of tips and things of, have you, you know, if your child's getting sick, have you really made sure we're paying attention to, you know, they're at the age where they're putting everything in their mouths and we want to make sure we're washing our hands and we want to make sure we're doing this. And so she's giving the advice in a way that. If I were to try to do that, knowing what I know about early childhood, I could do all of I could go through all of the steps and do it. There's no way the women would listen to me the way that they were listening to Monica. And Efrain: Mm-hmm. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): then and the comfort level that they felt with her as part of their community talking to them in their language just made all of the difference in that, in that community. And then The part that really struck me aside from how incredible of a connection she had with these women in order to ask the tough questions about, you know, are you actually giving them the the vitamin supplements that they need and what's going on here and all of that? Was when we finished the workshop, we were at a school doing the the workshop and her work was done, you know, for the for the day. That workshop was what we went to do and it But she went into the classrooms to check on the children and how they were doing. We provide water filters and we really s you know push the idea of drinking water and and you know this these healthy habits at school. She was checking in with the kids, how much of your of your water bottle have you been able to finish? She kind of made it like a joke, a competition out of it. And and that what she does that because this is her community and she cares about these kids Efrain: Yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): in her. community, right? Efrain: I love it. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): And she's not checking a thing off of a list. She's making sure that they're improving the health in their in their community in a way that it would be really difficult for somebody outside of the community to do that. So it's things like that that I I mean we have I have hundreds of stories of women just like that that that when you do the traditional kind of nonprofit model, you're missing out. on and much of the success that you would be able to get with women like Monica. Efrain: And we just we even talked about like offline is having to be different, think outside the box, right? The traditional model just may not work for a lot of organizations. and we always wonder why are we stagnant? Why haven't we seen, you know, growth? A lot of the times it's because you would did not think outside the box. It's because the same model that you think worked 25 years ago just doesn't work today. I love what you're talking about. You do have to work with those, meet people at where they're at. And when you can help them get from where they're at to a new level, those people are the ones that are going to pour back into the next generation. Right. So you talk about the Monica, pour them back into her community to the next generation. People feel trust because she is from the same place, right? They feel that they can they could what's the word? just relate a little bit better, possibly. You know, nothing Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah. Efrain: against you, Caroline, but That's just what it looks like, right? And Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah. Efrain: I could remember when I was in South Africa, I I was well respected, but I also wasn't from their country. So it was very while they respected me and they they gave me all the respect that I I deserved during those times, it was easier for me to work with someone else that was from the country that understood their language, that understood their living situations, because I'm just a guest in their country. There's people that actually live this every single day and knowing that we're a little bit more fortunate in The that we live here in America. I think sometimes even Americans take it for granted, to be quite frank. I always say you have to go to another country and experience that because you'll come back to America and realize, wait a minute, I gotta do a little bit more for my people. I and and I and I know it's how you really think and believe. You mentioned two thousand people. Is that a month Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah. Efrain: or is that on a yearly basis that you you guys help? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah. So that's a that's o over the course of the the year, but it's more so we work with children in the schools, teachers, the women themselves and the women in the program. So it's all of those women in the different communities. And you talk about growth. That's one of the things that we that we talk about too. And we have a waiting list, you know, of So many communities, women, teachers, children in in all of our communities. but we also we want to make sure that as we grow, we're doing it in a way where we're still having really deep impact in the communities. Because I it's funny, be my brain works on this sense of like, you know, the very, you know, US centered sense of. efficiency and growth and you know really doing all of these things in the way that will allow us to grow and scale our impact in different ways. And the way that they they work in our communities in Guatemala is very different. And sometimes it's much more successful. Like I at the end of last year I had you know what I thought was this brilliant idea to bring videos into our work. So we do in-person workshops in the communities. And we were going to each community and doing these workshops in our in our health program. And so they're learning things about leadership, but they're also learning about health habits and nutrition and all of these things in their in their schools and for children and, you know, student council leaders, but then also for the mothers that are leading in their communities. And I said, well, why don't we create videos and and provide the videos to them? And so we don't have to go to every community and we'll be able to have a bigger impact and scale our impact. And one of our leaders, Isabel in Guatemala, kind of was like, Okay, Carolina, but we think we'll be missing something if we're not there in person. Like we're not sure it's going to work if we're not there. And so being diplomatic, our leader in Guatemala, Lucy, said, Why don't we do half of them in person and half of them with videos? And we'll test, we'll see how it works. We do pre and post tests and with our participants. And so, you know, as you could probably imagine, w in all of the in-person workshops, the women had this huge jump in knowledge. And then with all of the video videos that they received, there was almost no jump in knowledge. And so we come back and we talk about it and they say, Well, Number one, this is an opportunity for them to get together in a way that they're never able to do. And so they're really focused and centered and thinking about this. When we send them a video, even when we follow up, number one, there can be technology issues, there, but there's also just so many things that they're doing during the day. That Efrain: Mm-hmm. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): a video is just kind of added to the things that they have to do. But when they're able to get together with another, with the rest of the group of women in leaders in their community. Hear from us personally, ask us questions in a different way, they're gonna learn a lot more. And so for me, it's one of those lessons that I just constantly get that yes, we want to grow because there is a lot of need and there's a lot of ways that we can have a really big impact in the communities, but we don't want to lose the impact that we're having for the sake of growth, right? And for the sake of efficiencies and for the sake of Something that would look really great on a grant application or to a potential funder, right? Is like, we're gonna do we're gonna use technology to scale our programs. But in in some circumstances, that's not it. And you have to listen to the local leadership who really knows what they're talking about, about what will work. And so growth for us looks like maintaining impact while we grow capacity in different ways. Efrain: You mentioned grants and funding. what does it look like? How does someone even get involved to fund what you guys are doing? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah, well, we have you know, we have individual funders so people can go to our website and and see the amazing work that the women in Guatemala are doing and they can support that way. And then we have foundations, family foundations, larger foundations that can support us and and the work that we're doing. And I think for individual funders, it's a little easier for them to kind of get and understand and see the the work that we're doing and how important it is and these indigenous women leading their own communities and doing things that are are going to be sustainable into the future. I think on grant applications it's always kind of difficult to say, you know, Dalila wrote her first email today. Like that's part of the impact that this is having after she, you know, she didn't she was only able to go to school through first grade. And now she's writing me an email ask keeping me on task saying, you know, I'm reminding you that you didn't do this thing that you were supposed to do, you know. And so it's like Dalila wrote her an email to me, the executive director, asking me to do something. Like it's it's really difficult to to prove and show some of the impact that you're having when the impact is with people and their trajectories themselves, right? And then And then you there are other things that you can absolutely see. You know, we have, we just got our recent data back from our literacy evaluations, and we have double the percent of kids reading Efrain: Love it. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): on grade level than the national average because the work that these women are doing in their communities. And so sometimes it's really easy to see, but the not all of the work is very linear linear, right? The work with people to start to believe in themselves. Start to take more risks in what they're doing to be able to then lead a group, lead different activities, become leaders in the organization. That's not a linear journey that's always easy to understand. But individual donors are really, are really jumping onto this work because they realize that we are all connected in this, you know, that the work in Guatemala is the is the same as the work in the US, is the same as the work in in. you know, some part of another, you know, continent as well. It's Efrain: Yeah. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): it's all working toward women supporting and and leading change in their own communities. And that Efrain: Mm-hmm. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): people wanna be a part of and and can absolutely be a part of it. Efrain: So amazing the work that you've done and and really how you continue to empower and inspire other women, right? I ask you, because you said you had two kids, what do you hope that your kids take out of seeing mom do this work? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): thank you. I actually have three kids, three little ones. Yes. Efrain: Three kids, okay, three, three. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): So an almost 12-year-old, an almost 10-year-old, and a five-year-old. And let me tell you, that third kid, he's whoo is so much fun. Efrain: man, busy. Yeah. I got a five year old daughter. I know. Okay. I can imagine that it is I mean sassiness. Is it a girl boy? Your Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): It's it's so much fun. Efrain: five year old. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): The five year old is a boy. Yeah. He Efrain: My five-year-old's a girl, so you know, she's on another level. Definitely has dad wrapped around her finger for sure. Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): I bet. I bet. I absolutely bet. Yeah. It's funny. I want my kids to see how much they can do and then also how much they can support other people to do. I want them to know that the world that they're growing up in, like you said, is not the same as the world everywhere in some some really important ways. And that they've got a lot of privilege in in this world and that they, in my opinion, have a responsibility to support other people in the way that they can. And part of that is being a positive source of believing in other people and what they can do and and not only what I can do as a leader, but what other people can do there. If my kids can learn in that and grow into leaders who step back and allow other people to lead in in certain ways, that'll be I I'll I'll feel really, really proud of of them and of our family for that. Efrain: Yeah, and what a good way to kind of look at leadership is it's not about just you leading, but helping others lead as well. That's true leadership. And Caroline, you've got to downpack. Where can people find more information about the organization? They wanted to just read more, they wanted to donate. What is the website? Carolyn Daly - Nuya' (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So our website is nuya.org. So it's n-u-y-a.org. And you can find so much information there about the work that the women are doing. You'll see testimonials, you'll see amazing photos of the beautiful colors in Guatemala and all of the things that we're doing. And you can you can donate there as well, but you can also follow along with their stories, you know, sign up for our newsletter. you can become an amigo, which is a monthly giver. So five dollars a month, wow, that can make such a difference in in Guatemala and the work that we're doing. So yeah, they can find find them there. You can find me on LinkedIn as well. I I'm pretty active on LinkedIn and I like to share stories of the amazing things that our our women do in their communities. So you can absolutely connect with me there too. Efrain: Caroline, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for what you're doing. Not just for people in the US, because I can imagine your work doesn't just stop in in over there. It's also here in America. So shoutouts to just the work that you do for continuing to inspire, continuing to empower, allowing others to know that it is possible. I think that is amazing. and and some people gotta just kind of look at you and and learn from that, you know. So kudos to you for never giving up and believing in. what you've always wanted to do. And here you are so many, you know, years later. So if you guys haven't already, make sure you guys check out their website. Check her out on LinkedIn as well. Check out the amazing work that she is doing Guatemala. My name's Efrain. This is Caroline. We'll catch you on the next one. Later.