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Sexually Abused But Healed: Courtney Rakestraw · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your host, kathy Chastain.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Christian-based psychotherapist and Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, kathy Chastain.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I'm a licensed Christian psychotherapist and with me today.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, and I'm also a Redeemed Backslider, and with me today is my friend Courtney Rakeshaw.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Welcome, courtney.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, I always, always get your name wrong, even though I know your name so well.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Good night, that's okay.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: It's a hard name.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Courtney Rakeshaw.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Rakeshaw yeah, okay, I had it right the first time.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad to be here with you.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: You thank you for inviting yes yes, well, I'm so glad to know your testimony, um, I know that we met at a ladies conference at the visalia church my home church, um a couple years ago I guess it's been and what stood out, what stood out to me so much about you, was how nice you were.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I thought that you were so nice and so just genuine, just genuinely yourself.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I just thought you were so wonderful.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: And so when Sister Cain, my pastor's wife, told me I needed to talk to you about your testimony, I'm like, oh well, it just looks like you've been in church all your life, very well adjusted, happy, happy, happy.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So I've been looking forward to hearing your testimony and sharing your testimony with the world out there.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: I'm excited for this opportunity those are.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: One of my favorite opportunities is to share what God's done in my life.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, where would you like to begin?
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just start from the beginning.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I had a child life that was raised around the Apostolic Pentecostal organization and my parents raised me according to the Bible and just at a young age, at three years old, I got the Holy Ghost and filled with the Spirit, was speaking in tongues and I, just from a young age, was very close to God, was very sensitive to God.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: I would have deep talks with the Lord at a really young age and I had a really good child life.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: It was just one of the best child lives you could have that a kid could ever want.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: But before I get too far into it, I guess I just above all that my story has in it.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Before I get into the darkness of it and the different decisions I made and different things that happened, I just want to make sure that anything that I say, that God gets all the glory for it.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: You know, any restoration and healing, anything that I may become or am, anything that I am, is due to his grace, his amazing found, and I was very, very much blinded and the Lord has opened up my eyes and is still opening up my eyes and this is something only that God can do.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: It's supernatural, it's an amazing grace.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: And so I want to make sure that everything that I say reflects that, that he turned my very ugly past into a beautiful testimony, and I want to always, always give him praise for that.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: So none of this is my doing is my point.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I want to make sure that you hear that this is God's glory and that he deserves that for doing that in my life.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: So, anyway, I'll get back to where I was.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I had one of the best child lives very close to God, very sensitive to God, deep intercession prayers.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: You know, I was a kid so I didn't always stay consistent, but when I talked to the Lord it was generally pretty deep.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: And at 13, though, I was sexually abused, and so my innocent purity quickly turned into this evil wickedness, this darkness.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: It was absolutely life-altering.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: And in this sexual abuse I froze up, didn't know how to take it at this time, because I was very innocent and secluded child life.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Even at the age of 13, I was just very pure, very sheltered.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: We didn't have a TV in our home, nothing that would show me that evil side to show me that side, right, right, yeah.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: So when the sexual abuse happened, I ended up freezing up and not knowing what to do in this situation, because I couldn't understand whether this was really normal or not.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Because of my innocency I didn't quite, I couldn't comprehend in the moment.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: I just kind of froze up and I didn't know really what was going on.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: But spiritually, because I was so innocent and pure, and then all of a sudden this switched while this was happening.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Sudden this switched while this was happening.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Spiritually, um, I felt this, this evil presence in this.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Um, you know, I was aware of something dark being present and, uh, physically I like I was saying I didn't, I didn't really know if this was normal or not.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: This was someone I trusted, someone I loved very much, important in my life, and I didn't know why this person would do something wrong to me.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: So I just was very confused.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: But spiritually, in the instance, I knew something was very dark with me and spiritually, it's just this evil that came on me in the moment.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Courtney, I think it's fairly unusual we don't hear about it a lot Someone getting the Holy Ghost at the age of three, at such a very, very young age.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Have you given that any thought?
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Why do you think that God gave you the Holy Ghost at three?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Have you ever thought about that?
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: at three.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Have you ever thought about that?
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: I have.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Uh, I don't, I don't believe that I'm anybody special right.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: He's no respecter of persons?
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: so definitely not that, um, my dad raised me.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: One of.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: One of the reasons why I had the best child life that a kid could ever want, um, is because my dad really taught me by example, and not just with his words, how to be close to God, and I'm very thankful for that.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: There's not a day in his life that I know of that he hasn't spent time and I mean hours with the Lord and through his example.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: As a kid, you, just when you're around that that's what you do, right?
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: We are kind of a lot of how we're raised, and so sometimes not all the time.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I shouldn't say that but just in this kind of way.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: That's all I saw and that's all I wanted to be.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: And so I think that at this young age I had already been exposed to this walk with God.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: That's so beautiful and my dad would cry still does.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: He still has an amazing walk with the Lord.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I would hear him cry to God and just pour out his heart to God, and they had this relationship that I was, even as a young girl, I suppose, craving, you know, just humanity, wanting that relationship with God, and so I was just very sensitive.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: I'm a sensitive person.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: I'll probably cry today.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: I'm a very sensitive person so I possibly was just opening up my, you know, with my praise and worship I don't think there is an age limit and I believe that I had that childlike faith and that desire for him that I think I just opened up to him and he came in.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, at three there is no cognitive.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: You know your cognitive understanding is not fully developed there, it's just beginning, right.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: But I do think, because three years old you're a toddler You're just still putting your words together, learning how to understand what things mean in just the most basic sense.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: But I do think that the sensitivity that you carry, I think maybe your dad I mean I'm speculating, obviously, but I wonder if your dad and your mom had just created an atmosphere of his presence in the home.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: And because you were three, you are already very aware of that it was an easy transition because you were spiritually sensitive.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: You know sensitivity in the natural is sensitivity in the spiritual and so I think your spirit just really easily probably connected because it is.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: It is very unusual that someone at that age, you know um, would get the Holy ghost and know you know, really be aware of it in that way yeah, yeah so I was.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I was just curious if you've thought about it.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my son ended up getting the holy ghost to speak in in tongues at the age of four.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: So wow yeah, so, and he's very sensitive to god too.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: So, uh, like I said, I don't think the age really matters, but that is it, doesn't it?
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: But looking at your life and understanding who God has created you to be, I always think every little thing that happens is not by accident.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: It's all part of what he uses.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: So, just on a personal level, I think it's beautiful and I was just wondering you know what that would look like for someone so young to be able to just get the Holy Ghost?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's beautiful.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very thankful for it that I got that.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Especially with the rest of my testimony and the rest of what my life held, that I had that to always refer back to that relationship with him because you had until the age of 13.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: You had a good long time to develop, to develop a very deep and close walk with god absolutely, and my dad never stopped raising us that way.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: So, yes, I had all of those years of just not only in my prayer life, but he taught us the Word of God and why we live what we live, right, a lot of kids grow up not knowing why, and he taught us all those things and I'm very thankful for that.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: I'm very thankful for him in my life.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: He's been a very important voice in my life and I love him very much.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: But anyway, so, yes, so I was spiritually sensitive, right?
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: So, in this pure form, though, until 13, until this incident happened.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: So when this did happen, it just altered my life in a negative way, from white to black.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: And now.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: Just it seemed as if I won't say as deep as I was close to God.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: It went the other way, but it was very dark.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: The sexual abuse was and I felt that spiritually and you know I wouldn't be surprised if that happens a lot of people's life.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: They just maybe aren't, they're not aware of it, you know.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I wanted to ask when the sexual abuse happened.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Since you are spiritually aware, do you feel like an?
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Uh evil spirit attached itself to you?
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Uh because of the abuse, or do you feel like that evil was felt because of shame, like?
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: I feel like it was because of shame, because as soon as this happened, you know, when I was younger, I had this love for God and his spirit lived inside of me and I knew he loved me.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: I didn't question it.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: I knew God loved me when I was a kid.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: But as soon as someone touched me, this change happened and all of a sudden I'm too unlovable, I'm too dirty, I'm too because of the sins of this man.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: All of a sudden now it felt like I was too dirty, I'm too because of the sins of, you know, this man.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: All of a sudden now it felt like I was the sinner, it felt like I carried all this, you know why did I?
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: freeze up.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: So there was this self-blame of why didn't I do something about it.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: You know, why didn't I move, why didn't I say no, why didn't I do anything?
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: But but I just sat there and so I had the self-blame, the shame, right that that now I'm unworthy and and that opened the door what's that?
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: and that opened the door yes and I believe that I don't know that anything attached to me.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Necessarily.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: It definitely twisted, you know, my life after that in in different ways, but, um, I would say that this evil presence was in the room, it was a darkness and, um, I was aware of it, I was aware of it and from that moment on, you know, until later with healing, I really struggled with God loving me, because now I'm too dirty and I even took a shower right after the incident and just couldn't wash the dirt off.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I couldn't get it all off.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: The way that I was feeling and how it made me feel I couldn't wash this dirt off of what had happened to me.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about what happened that day, that night, when the incident occurred?
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: So I ended up going to bed that night and there was this, just like I said, like this evil presence.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I felt it the whole time.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: I was there because I was there for a weekend.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: So you were at someone's house that you knew, that you trusted that you loved that you felt safe with, so you were spending the weekend there, okay, yeah, and did you feel that presence the whole time you were there, or only at the time of the abuse?
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Wow, that is super good question, because I just something just clicked right when you asked that and I did feel it before.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: I felt him looking at me and, in fact, a very specific place.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: We were at this pizza place and I felt him looking at me and it's as if, like it's crazy that you just asked that question, because I've never thought of this and when he looked at me it wasn't in the way that I was used to because, see, I was we at at this time.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: You know, I lived down south in southern california, and right now I live in Northern California.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I'm from Eureka, california, but we live down South.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm trying to think where we were at my bad Now, I know, but I don't know.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: I just kind of took a minute there, that's okay, anyway.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Uh, so at 13, I was, you know, going going to this charter school and all of that, and so I, I had these, these men that would look on me, right and different things like that.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: But this was different because it did put some fear into me, because I, I all of a sudden was like why did I just feel that?
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Why did I just Notice that?
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Was like, why did I just feel that.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Why did I just notice that?
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and for me, like I've said before, I was so innocent.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: So it's strange because, like people you know I would, I would have men look at me or whatever before that, even at a young age, and go into school, different things like that, and it was nothing for me, but I was just like, oh yeah, men like women, not a big deal.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Now I think of it, and I was only 13.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: That's a really young age.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: There's something obviously wrong there.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: But I didn't think of it as a big deal because I was like that's just something you know they do and in my innocent mind no big deal.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: They're just looking you know, yeah, disregard yeah so, but when he looked and I remember it was at this pizza place, and when he looked, um, and I can't even tell you where he looked, there's not even a specific place, it's just when he looked I felt that yeah yeah, so and I would guess as we were saying that night.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: um, I would say that when the incident happened it definitely intensified that feeling that I had that fear, that shame, all of that.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: But laying down that night was tormenting because I didn't know if he would come in again and do it again.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: I didn't know if I was going to have to live through this hell another time, this hell another time.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: So you go home that night, to the place you go to bed and the door opens at some point and he comes in and molests you.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, and then?
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Well, it didn't happen while I was in the bedroom by myself, but it actually happened when we were just sitting together.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: However, once that was all done and I did the shower thing, I tried to wash off the dirt.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Couldn't, could not wash off the feeling that it caused me, then later.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: that night I went to bed and the door was open.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, and so I can't remember if it was like their rule that they wanted the door open, or if I just left it open Cause I was scared.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: I have no idea.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: But it was open and I didn't feel like, you know, the the power to shut it because it wasn't my house or anything, although I'm very close to them.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I laid there in torment that night.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: There was definitely fear in the room and this darkness in the room that was tormenting.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: How much longer did you have to be there before you were able to go home and talk to your folks?
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Did you tell them right away?
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, I told them right away and I'm glad that I did that, so glad that I knew something well enough in the innocency to let them know, and I was close enough to them still am so I'm thankful that I did that and didn't cause you know it to be repeated to myself.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: So did you go home right away after that, or did you have to stay another day or two at their?
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: house.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Thankfully it had happened.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I was there for the weekend, but the second day is when it happened, when the molest happened.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: And then, uh, the next day, the next morning is when I left, actually pretty early in the morning, so it was.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: I hadn't slept very well that night.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: Uh, the last night, because of obvious reasons that, the fear and just not knowing what was going to happen, and I couldn't even focus on my thoughts.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: I was just in overwhelming darkness that I'd never experienced before.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, okay.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: So now I felt the shame, the unworthy, the unloved, and, like I was saying, my view of God's love definitely changed at this point to where I started putting that block up, where I couldn't receive God.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't receive God's love because I labeled myself too unclean, myself too unclean.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: So all that I had known, all that innocence and all that purity and that sweet little Courtney, everything quickly shifted after that violation.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: So, unfortunately, I let that unworthiness and that unloved you know, the devil is accuser of the brethren right, so I let him.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: He spoke in my mind like that.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: It's almost like it left a kind of an open door for him to have access into my mind after that and I allowed those thoughts to stay in.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I believed them, unfortunately, and so I claimed to be too unworthy for him to love, too dirty for God to love me.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I, you know, went through the grief, the loss, the betrayal because I lost somebody that was important to me.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: This was a very important person to me and I lost them in my life, and to try to process that was really hard at this age because I didn't understand why it had to happen.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: I didn't know, you know, I didn't.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I didn't know where it was going to go from here.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: I didn't.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: I just, like I said, I couldn't focus, even.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: It wasn't just the night, you know, of that torment, like after that, I, I, in my life, I couldn't focus on really much of anything.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: It was kind of like being in a fog, right, well, it totally like being in a fog, right?
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Well, it totally disrupted everything about your life.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And I think the grief.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I think grief is something that doesn't get talked about enough in trauma.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: But grief is a huge aspect of the abuse cycle and I think that people are so quick to process the abuse and try to get their bearings and feel like they're strong enough to keep going that often that grief never gets processed.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: But the fact that you were processing it and you know and grieving it because you had a safe place with your parents to tell them- yeah that part is really good, but the brokenness that it caused would have also caused you to be very emotionally vulnerable and susceptible, as you said, to the lies of the enemy, speaking into your thoughts.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so, even though I was very angry at him, I still lost someone that was important to me.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: So, yes, I still had to go through the grief of that.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: So so much happens in these abusive situations, happens in these abusive situations and you know, I, just I they shouldn't be downplayed, they should definitely be catered to, you know, to be helped with drastic intervention yeah because, and the sooner the better, right.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: so just so much, and because I was spiritually aware, and then I went from that white to black, the light to the darkness.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I was, I don't know if I was ready to learn how to fight that kind of fight.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: You know, even though I'd got the.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Holy Ghost at three.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: It was a lot to take in and brought a lot of confusion.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: So my teenage years were okay.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Besides, you know what I was battling in here.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: My teenage years were still somewhat normal until the trauma effects started showing up in my later teens, and even without looking for it, you know, I ended up falling into homosexuality.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So, courtney, you come home from that weekend, you tell your parents you guys deal with it and then you just go back to life as usual, going.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: You just go back to church, go back to your normal routine, dealing with, of course, the after effects, but you just keep going on in life, right, and you probably were a little bit aware.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: You probably were a little bit aware everything had shifted in you.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: But when you look back, do you think you were very much aware?
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like you were in any denial at all that you were going to be okay, or did you feel like as soon as you got home you just knew you weren't going to be okay?
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: I think because I had such a big past of everything being all right, when you just knew you weren't going to be okay.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I think because I had such a big past of everything being all right, I probably did believe that everything was just going to end up being okay, and because for most of my teen years it was okay, I mean there was nothing bad that happened in those years and besides, like I said, everything that was going on in here yeah, life went pretty back to normal.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: You know, and my parents and family and all did what they could.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: There's only so much you can do, but they did everything that they could do.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: So everything went pretty pretty much back to normal.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Besides, you know, it wasn't normal in here.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Nothing was going on normal in here, but also.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: I didn't have that focus to really until later in my life to really start.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Understand it.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah Right.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: So how did you fall into homosexuality?
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: What was the first step, would you say?
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I think it's more or less like I had this I guess you could say that from my abuse.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: It just twisted me up a bit in who I and who I am right and what I even want in life Could you describe that, could you describe?
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: where the twist was.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Could you describe where the twist was?
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: What was the twist?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know how to describe that actually, but just something had shifted from the sexual abuse that later started showing up.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: I guess so, but it wasn't.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: That was like I said I was sexually abused at 13, but I didn't fall into homosexuality until I was, you know, in my older teens, until I was, you know, in my older teens.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: So those effects didn't start showing up till later in my life.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: But you know, homosexuality, pornography or you know, promiscuous lifestyles like those are effects of a root cause, and so I didn't realize that at this time, you know, until all these effects started showing up in my life.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: So I don't think I processed through all the ways of how it happened and this and that, but definitely fell into sin because of the way that I was.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: I believe that's a part of it was because I wasn't receiving that love of God and I felt so unworthy and unloved, you know, yeah, so, and that's why, too, because of these effects like, it's so important to deal with those traumatic, you know, instances that happen in our lives, which is hard to do, very challenging to deal with them.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: But I think that sometimes we try to fix all these effect problems when it's really going back to the source of where this stuff came from.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Right right.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: So you know the darkness that I had encountered at 13,.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: It was dark, but you know it was present in my mind and living in my mind throughout those years.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I didn't fight against that.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: I don't think I knew how.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: I know that's probably not an excuse, but I, I didn't.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: I didn't fight against that I didn't.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: I don't think I knew how.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: I know that's probably not an excuse, but I really didn't.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: It just kind of all a blur in those years.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: I do remember things and all that, but it's just kind of like I was just floating into yeah see where life is going to take me.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: And but when I fell into homosexuality, this darkness.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: But when I fell into homosexuality, this darkness, you know, got even darker, it definitely escalated.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: So it's almost like, you know, with the abuse, my purity had got switched to the darkness and then it just switched again even darker, because I was now living in sin and you know, in this sin I was entertaining something very dark, without even realizing or contemplating the full depth of it.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: But homosexuality for me was far more spiritual than it was physical.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: For me, it was very.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: It was something that was dark to me that I was fighting against, more than something physical.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: So it was definitely, you know, sin.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: So when we fight against sin, and I didn't have the Holy Ghost living in me to overcome that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think sin is about separation from god.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: So it sounds like you were just getting further and further and further away, so you were filling the levels of that depth, the depth of your awayness from god.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: It sounds like the dark.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: The darkness because it would totally creep in and it is dark.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: It is dark because it's spiritual, like you said.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: So, unfortunately, still at this older age, I still didn't know how to deal with this level of darkness.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: So the spirit of homosexuality is very demonic and antichrist.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: So I got angry at myself throughout this from sinning right so frustrated, not realizing that this was an effect instead of you know, it was an effect of something that needed to be dealt with.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: So you know, we don't fight against flesh and blood or against people, but we fight against principalities, right and powers, rulers of darkness and spiritual wickedness.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: So sin is to blame and Christ did pay the price for that.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: So we have hope there.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Christ paid the price for blame and even self-blame and sin at Calvary.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: He took that upon himself.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: So we fight against the dark spirits, not people.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: So this sin.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: I was angry at myself, though I started turning inward and getting angry at myself because I didn't want sin in my life.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: I wanted to live for God.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: I wanted to have this relationship with God that I had had before.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: That never seemed to fully be at that same level.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Restored yeah.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Restored.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it never had seemed to return to that throughout those teen years, even when life was okay.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I just, I believe that well, yeah, I mean, it's biblical.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: You know, when I, throughout those years, when we're not taking the thought into captivity, when we're not, it's not dealt with in the way that you know, spiritually I needed it and I needed to do for myself and didn't realize, you know, it's just a lot happens during that time.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: But I don't know if I knew how deep I had been involved with and aware of the spiritual realm on the pure and righteous side as a kid.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I was fully aware of it at this time I am now.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: But so when this spiritual side on the evil, you know, came and now with sin, it just, it just really caused a lot of confusion in me.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: So I don't think anything changed in me.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: To turn to the sin of homosexuality, it just and I know I I said I feel like I was twisted a bit, but it was definitely more spiritual than physical Now that sin is in this picture, because this is not how God created me to be it caused all the more shame, all the more unworthinessiness and those unloved feelings and you know, I believe that sin opens up that access for the enemy to take over our thoughts, because if we don't have that armor of God on to protect those thoughts, that are lies and you know, the accuser of the brethren is accusing us and labeling us, and when we don't have the armor on or the spirit of god living in our life, um, that access, you know, to the enemy's thoughts is there and mine was wide open and I started really believing everything that the enemy was telling me well, I want to address something, something because I'm trying to think of how to say this without offending the righteous out there.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: I actually really hate the word sin.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I know that there is sin and I know that it is sin, but I just so hate the word sin in some context because it always comes with such condemnation, and I think there's willful sin and I think willful sin is definitely willful, and I think that there is sin and even though it's quote-unquote sin, people are not always aware in the ways that they are right and, like I said earlier, sin is about separation from God, because, ultimately, god didn't create any of this.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: God does not ever want you to be anyone but who he created you to be, and so the further we get away from his purest design for us, the further we get away from that, everything becomes corrupted and skewed, and I think exactly what you just said a second ago now that you were entering into a relationship that you knew was wrong, the enemy could beat you up with that.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he could beat you up with that choice, but it originated because of how you felt about yourself and the shame and the unworthiness and the uncleanness that you felt, and I want to make the distinction, because I'm probably a little bit of a bleeding heart, but I look at people through the lens of a wound and I think that a lot of people are judged and judge themselves by their behaviors, when in fact the wound is what is responsible for the behaviors.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: We've got to heal the wounds and Jesus came to bind up the brokenhearted right.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: And so is it sin?
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's sin, but it's not sin just from a volition of wanting to just go out and do whatever you want.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Right, the behavior is a byproduct of lies that we believe from the enemy.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Right, like you said, your eyes were blinded and so in your mind, I know you knew that homosexuality was wrong.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot of people out there that might be backslid, that might be listening, that fell into it out of a need to be loved.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: And is it still unbiblical?
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, but the maliciousness, the act of volition from a wrong place may not necessarily be there, right, I mean?
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: sin is still sin, so like motives.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and so when I hear sin and when people talk about sin, it brings such condemnation and assumption that people are doing that from a very bad motive, wrong place, and sometimes it's just done out of innocence or ignorance actually a lot and sometimes it's done because they, just like you said, believe the lies of the enemy.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: So I just want to clear that up for anyone who because I think this is way more common in the church world, especially as I started this podcast you podcast I am hearing more and more and more that this is much more common in the church world than what we have talked about in the church world.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: And coming out, as you have experienced, is not easy, and coming back to church as someone who's straight away from God is also not easy.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: So I just want to bridge that gap for anyone that's listening.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Like there is no judgment, you know just.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: You know if I want to give people place to just, we understand the pain that went along with all of that.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: Absolutely no, I respect that a lot.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: I get exactly what I think, I'm hearing you in, exactly what you're saying, and I know that you don't mean it that way.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: I just know that in a church culture, everything is discussed as right or wrong, good and bad, sin or holiness, right or wrong, good and bad, sin or holiness, and though that is true, I believe there is further conversation that needs to be had around those black and white concepts.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't looking for it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, yeah.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: It just happened.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: You even said I fell in.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: You know we stumble into things that we should not stumble into, but you were not equipped because you were so broken.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had already thought pretty low of myself, and so that's why I say, when I did fall into this sin, then it just created all the more.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Shame begets shame, so shame produces more shame.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: And those effects started showing up everywhere.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And once you have a behavior that we know is wrong, and then we do that, now the devil has ammunition to condemn us with it, because we already knew it wasn't okay.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Absolutely so.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: I'm thankful, like I said before, that I always had something to refer back to.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, as most people have walked away from God do and, you know, thankful for that because I had known God before on such a deep level that you know I'd been in those deep places with him that I did have that to refer back to always.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: You know it's still.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: You know, unfortunately sin still did damage in my life, but I always knew where home was, where I was going to come back to.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: I always knew that when I was ready for repentance I knew where I was coming.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: So I'm very thankful that I had that, because that's our hope right.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: And if I didn't have that it could have went my life probably would have went way worse.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: But again, god's amazing grace, so that I had that history of my relationship with him and being close to him and knowing he loved me To, even though now where I felt like you know, he didn't love me, which was my the lies of the enemy I still in the back of my mind, always would think about what I had had with him.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: And then from there on out I wanted to start working my way back, even after first sin.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: It's like you really crave that.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Because your spirit longs for it.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: It does.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: It does that so but because your spirit longs for it, it does.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: It does so that I mean to talk more on that unloved feeling.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: You know, the pivotal relationship between um god, others and ourself is ourself, and when we don't allow god to love us and open our heart to his love the way that he wants to love us, we don't love ourselves and others the way that he wants us to and how he loves us and them.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: So I was really hurting those around me, doing the lying and using everything that sin does.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: The way of a transgressor is hard and, you know, trying to cover my sin with, as Chester Wright describes it, you know, our own fig leaves that Adam and Eve made for themselves.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: It just the fig leaves don't work, but I was trying to cover.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: You know I was trying to, to cover up what sin was, was doing.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: And so there was definitely, you know, the lying and the using and hurting other people, and not only hurting other people but hurting myself.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: And I wasn't loving Courtney, the way that God, god, loved me, because I was just blocking that, that love that he had for me.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: His love didn't stop, but I wasn't receiving his love the way that you know I would if I I had opened that part up so um you do have others around you.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I thought you were done.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: How long did you stay in that lifestyle before you came out of it?
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know an exact amount, but I have another part of my testimony after the homosexuality that had turned my life around, it was a negative thing, but it's kind of where I came back to the cross and back to God's mercy.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: So I came back home.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: So I'm not, Um, it was definitely a sin that, um, you know God has delivered me from today, and that's what I'm thankful for.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: Is that deliverance, you know, of no longer having to be bound by that?
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: But, um, so you know the saying is, hurt people, hurt people.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: And I know that some people say that's not true.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: But if you're truly, if you're wounded, you do hurt others around you.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: You know that you can't heal any, help heal anyone, that when you're broken and unhealed yourself, it's really, really something that only God can do through his love.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: And so my root cause was the sexual abuse and that had festered in me.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: And then all these effects started happening afterwards, so it didn't just stop at homosexuality.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: The next part, you know well, I also was treating people wrong through all this, you know, like I had mentioned, and because shame produces more shame, but so there was more and more damage going on.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: But it didn't just stop with homosexuality.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: So I didn't want to live in sin Like we were saying.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to live like that.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: But I was also not desperate enough to leave Egypt yet.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: So, like Lot's wife, I didn't want to leave the lifestyle that I was choosing.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: So I was deceived that sin gave me something to make it to the next day, which is so sad.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: That a lot of people live their lives like that, be it alcohol or anything else, that just takes you to the next day, which is so sad that a lot of people live their lives like that.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: You know, be it alcohol or anything else, that just takes you to the next day.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: And then when you wake up you know you're wondering where the bottle is again, because you, just you start feeling.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: And so another effect that I had from this root cause of sexual abuse, which in some cases is directly related to homosexuality, was suicidal thoughts, and the spirit of suicide is the epitome of darkness, it's the darkest of dark.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: So when I have explained that I went from that light to dark, I didn't realize that it could get darker, but it did.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: And so what's that?
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: yeah, I was agreeing yeah.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: So um and it affects a lot of people, I probably more than we even realize, because it's usually uns, not spoken um, hell's ultimate uh plan is to still kill and destroy.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: So the temptations of it are very dark and evil, you know, when you don't even want to live anymore.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: So this was the darkest of dark that I had ever experienced and in this attempt to take my life, my life was drastically changed.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: When I was battling this spirit, I was shutting out at this particular time, with this attempt, I was shutting out God's gentle voice, but God intervened.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Even though I was like I'm going to do this.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: God intervened for me, on my behalf and showed me this vision and in this, the atmosphere and times of just suicidal thoughts, which is mainly what I had, god would switch this death to life and it was spiritually one of the most mind-blowing besides receiving the power of the Holy Ghost or the Spirit of God in my life, powerful prayer meetings or prayer time that I would have with God.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: After I would call on Him and he would turn it around for me, just life-changing.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: So in this moment I called, I screamed out Jesus, and that's all I could barely get out at this time is.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: I just screamed out his name and, because times passed, I had you know when these temptations would come.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: I would talk with the Lord and, just you know, tell him he knew.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: But I would just talk to him, you know, and and he would gently do his way of that only he can do, of just kind of slowly guiding me out of it.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: It's like we were just trying to get me out of this.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: You know he would.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: He was deemed corny, I'm his child, and so on, but at this particular time I screamed his name out when he showed me this vision.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: I screamed his name out and his name the power of his name, holds all power, changed everything for me and I've never felt the love of God in this kind of way.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: I felt it in many ways, but the love of God in this kind of way where it takes you from death and the darkest of dark to his love and his light, absolutely just mind-boggling how he can turn such a dark situation into light, like only he can.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: And you know, just as soon as I was able to to say the.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: So for those that do go and struggle through this spirit and I know it's super sensitive and everyone's different, but if you could speak the name or just whisper it, do what you need to do to get the name of Jesus out of your mouth and call on Him, he will help you turn that situation around.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: So Courtney, I'm trying to think of how to say this.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: I know you and I love everything that you're saying and I know that as I've done these episodes and I've interviewed backsliders when they've been in these places, I have noticed that many are reluctant to talk about the details, and some of that is shame, and I think the other part of it is they don't want to give any glory to the devil.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that you've done a lot of work on shame, so I don't think that that's necessarily true about you.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: So I don't think that that's necessarily true about you.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: But, with that said, I think it's one thing to stand up in church and testify about what God has done to a body of believers who also know what God has done.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: It's another thing to stand up and tell somebody when what they're looking for is why am I going to listen to you?
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: I can't even relate to this.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: What they're going to relate to is you know what?
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: That lie he said to you is the same exact lie he said to me.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: So the details really matter, because there are people that are still stuck in, never even telling another person that they were sexually abused, especially men, men never even talking about the abuse because it was by another man.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: That shame is incredible.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: They also don't are afraid.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, in my job, people are so afraid to talk about the voices that they hear because we know them, we know that it's the devil, but people that don't know it's the devil think that they're crazy and, worse, they think it's their own brain telling them these things.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: And so I apologize in advance to just kind of dig into the details, but I want anybody who hears this to know that you understand, that we understand what it's like laying in your bed at night and feeling like something's laying in bed with you or there's a voice literally telling you.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I've had people say that they had the voice tell them, go get the knife out of the kitchen drawer and stab yourself in the heart.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: I actually knew someone who stabbed themselves in the heart and died Like.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: This is so very real and and yes, jesus is the answer period.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: He is the everything, the end, all, the be all.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: But we got to talk about where people are living today, right now, because this is a podcast to someone that has not come home yet.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: They're still stuck, they're still out there, they are still brokenhearted and still very wounded, feeling all the things that you felt and hearing what you have been through will make them feel they're not alone, like they're not the only ones.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: And how much does everybody feel that way?
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Because that's what the devil says to us, right?
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: You're the only one.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: No one's going to love you again, no one's going to understand you, no one will ever love you.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: You know all of those things, and so, if you can talk a little bit more about what you actually experienced you know you don't have to give tons of detail, but I want to hear about the wrestle.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: I want to hear about what you struggled with in your humanity before you ever was able to come back.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: You had a place to come back to, and maybe somebody watching this isn't a backslider.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: They maybe just stumbled upon it.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: They don't know anything about Jesus, but they do know about the wrestle.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: So could you talk a little bit more about the depravity that all of this takes you to as a human?
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: So I would say that, with this unloved, this unworthy feeling that sin and trauma had brought me to, and because I didn't have the power of the Holy Ghost living inside of me to overcome, you know, sin, because Jesus is the only one that can do that for us through his spirit.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Well, and I wasn't dying to myself Will at this time, and so I would say the biggest part of this for me was that this darkness, like you were saying that you do wrestle with the, the unworthy, the unloved um, you know why would I want to stay and continue doing this for the rest of my life?
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: Why would I want to hurt God, hurt people, um, for the rest of my life.
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: So I started struggling with and then, of course, I had this self-blame.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: I had gone all these years blaming myself for the sexual abuse of why I didn't do something about it.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Right, which is unfortunate that so many do blame themselves for that.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Right right and uh, and then that was sin in my life too.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Uh, I just I didn't feel any worth.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: I didn't feel like I had it had been so such a while before I had, since I had felt god's love, true love for me.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: So without that that love in my life, it was very dark not to glorify, it just really was a dark place to be in and a real dark place to live in and in my mind and just in life around me.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: And I would say that, you know, you say I'm love, you can say the word unloved, but it just doesn't describe what these things do to your life.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: When you do go through loss of someone you're very close to and someone that you love, and then you're sinning now.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: And then you're sinning now and, yeah, you weren't looking for the sin, but now you've fallen in sin and you're having a struggle getting back up.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: That's when I feel like I just didn't want to make it to the next day.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: And so you know, like I said, for me mainly it wasn't a ton of attempts or anything like that.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: It was more of you know, these thoughts and these temptations and all of that.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: But in this attempt that I did try and I was definitely determined it was going to be this time, because I was very angry at myself for not having the courage to follow through times before overwhelmed by the spirit again, I should say, because as soon as I would call out to God and he would help me turn that situation around, then I was thankful, of course, but because I felt his, a touch of his love and his peace, which was so opposite of what you know I was feeling.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: So, you know, I did always view God as, as a God of, even though I had a good relationship with Him.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: After the abuse, I would say, I started viewing God as, like you know, just pointing his finger at me.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: And so it was probably the way my perception was of feeling unloved and all of that, and so I was viewing God wrong and I've had to repent for that as well, and I know that it's all better now, but thank the Lord, but at this time, have you Go ahead?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: I want to pause there because I think that I think religious culture overall can cause that punitive picture of God not on purpose, of course, but we just gather that because we have an understanding of right and wrong.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: But I think there's a lot of people out there that do view God as you know.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: The God up there that's mad because you're messing up and he's going to punish you.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: But I also think that that is a way the devil twists who he really is to cause us to believe that, because that's not at all who he is.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: But I think that that's part of his accusation.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: When you're in this place that condemnation because of what is taking place in your life you just feel like you deserve that right.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: So you know, even though I did view God in this kind of way, it would always collide and collide with the way that he would make me feel in these situations.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: I love that they clashed.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: They clashed.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: I viewed him this way, pointing his finger at me, but then, when I would feel his warmth and his love, it didn't line up.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: It was opposite of what how he made me feel.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: And you know cause, in these moments he was hugging me and now this was when I would be able to, to reach out to him.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: And in this, this one attempt, when he showed me the vision, um, um, in spite of me closing my ears off to him because I was determined I wanted to do it this time and so I was trying to shut that switch right Because he's not forceful, and so, but in these moments, and especially in this story, In this story, this is when everything started changing for me, because and then after that, we could talk about the restoration, but I had this darkest of dark going on in my life, and I'll never forget this day when he did show me the vision and he, it was almost as if you know that prodigal story where he's waiting for running towards the sun, towards the prodigal.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: He knew that I couldn't save myself and he gave me the hope of life when I didn't want to live anymore.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: And, um, just, it was beautiful the way that he, he fought for me and he, uh, like I was saying, the way that I viewed him, just collided with him, and the way that he made me feel and, and his word, you know, his word, showed me opposite, when I would read it, um, of the way that you know I wrongly viewed him.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: It would show me opposite of that and it was just powerful, um, for those that do struggle with this, it's absolutely, I do understand it's.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: It's a terrible spirit to fight against and only god can be the true, the true, uh, victor of that.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: Um, and that's why I do say speak the name if you can.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: But, yeah, sometimes you're in a dark place where you can't speak, right, you don't want to, you really don't have the strength to do much.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: I've been there too.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: But if you can even get one thought on God, one whisper to Him, you know, one whisper to him, you know, and if you can get anything in that moment where you have that hope, because then when he sweeps in, that hope is just, there's really no other way to put it, it's just opposite of the darkness that you feel and that's encountered.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: You know that you're experiencing in that moment.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: So that love of God and that peace of God and that hope of God that he's not sitting there, the way that we view him and we hear him you know he's not doing that, that the prodigal father, you know, didn't didn't say how dirty he was, he just welcomed him in, right, and yeah, you know the prodigal father didn't didn't say you know you can't come in, you need to sleep outside, nothing like that.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: He ran to him, hugged him, kissed his neck, brought him in and they celebrated and he clothed him with the best robe.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: And I love that story because it resembles the same thing as god is waiting for you and god wants um, even at our darkest places and our lowest places, he wants to be the one that he's ready right there.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: So I'm thankful that, in this situation that happened in my life, you know in this story that this started really revealing his love for me, because when someone can love you when you are in a hot pen, when someone can give you hope, when you feel hopelessness and shed light on you, even if it's just a little bit in the darkness, it's just no.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: No, that's supernatural.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: Only a God of grace can do that, because no other person could have talked me out of that.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: And no other person could have changed my mind Absolutely no one, and not even myself.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: Like I said, I couldn't save myself, so it was God that did that, and it was God that showed me that, and it was God that was fighting for me, and he wants to do that for everyone.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: He comes to still kill and destroy.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: So that's his ultimate plan.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: Is you know, if they're not breathing, you know?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: What was the vision that he gave you that day?
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: It's kind of personal, so I don't know if I'll go into much detail.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: but you don't have to.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: You don't know if I'll go into much detail, but you don't.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: You don't have to, you don't have to.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: It was enough to kind of wake you up and yeah pay attention, right, okay, how long would you say that you had pondered suicidal ideation before the day came that you decided this is it, I'm doing it this time yeah, yeah, how long.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: I would say that was probably.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: Like I had mentioned before, I really feel like probably not everyone's case so I don't want to be quoted there, but generally I've just in hearing different people's stories with the shame studies and things as such, Homosexuality and suicide are really related, I mean.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: Correlated yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: So, whether they're just thoughts or attempts, or you know, it's all dark.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: Anyway, I would say that as soon as I fell into the sin of homosexuality, that's when, not much later, the thoughts started coming.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: However, I would say that the thoughts started coming, they were very mild.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: The devil is ignorant, so it's like it's.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: I mean he is, but I'm saying like he knows that he needs to be sly, so it didn't start out.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, just, you know, um, it was very slow and gradual because, um, I I had felt the hope that I could overcome this at some point, the sin, you know, and so I think, these thoughts of the unloved and unworthy and the shame, when it started growing through from sin, then it started making me believe, you know, want to give into that temptation more, till it brought me to this point where yeah, I was.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: I was determined to do it and it was a beautiful thing when God did step in like he did.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it, it really illustrates how the enemy works.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: He does plant a little seed.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: It hasn't manifested yet, it hasn't really grown into full-fledged.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just a passing thought until you begin to entertain it and then you know it looks different for everybody, but then it becomes a very real option.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: You know, for people because they have entertained that idea for such a long time.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: Till now there is a plan in place and a willingness.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: So so God miraculously stepped in and intervened.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like I said, in this moment God was really starting to.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, he was loving me all along, because His love for us is unconditional and doesn't change whether we are in sin or not.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: But I believe that with this block that I had of Him allowing him to love me, the way that he wanted to love me, started changing and it started feeling like this was going to turn.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: After this situation, when the father does show up in a way, like how he did, I started in this at this time, started feeling a little bit of that innocency and that, you know, that love that he had for me, and I started to try and actually believe that.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: So I feel like something was opened then and I was because I had felt his love so strongly this night and I hadn't felt it in that kind of way since I was younger, you know, and it was in a different way.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: So, you know, they were great talks with the Lord.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I could say the best in my entire life, but this particular night, when he showed up for me in the way that he did, I just I think just part of that block just started.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: Even if it was a couple bricks.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: It started opening up to where I was like how could this not be love for me, right?
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: right.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Undeniable, to where again, the way that I viewed God, the way that I viewed myself, it all started kind of becoming or crumbling down when I started to feel even a little bit of His love for me.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: And just a beautiful.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: His love is so beautiful, he is love and it's the most beautiful thing to know about him is the love that he truly has for his children.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: Right For all.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: He died for all.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: So this, the shame study by Chester Wright, I get.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: I have the privilege to actually teach this in some classes and it's amazing.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: It definitely was life-changing for me.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: But it helped me to go back to this root cause and deal with the sexual abuse that I had never really thought about.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was on my mind every day, but I'm saying like I wasn't trying to process it or take care of it, I just it was on that back burner.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: It was tormenting, but I just lay it in the back of my mind.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: You know it's in there, but it's just in the back.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: And this study I was able to do this study and or go through this study and it drastically changed my life.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: I wasn't instantly delivered, I wasn't any of those things instantly healed or anything like that.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: It was a slow process for me but it really changed my life in the sense of it.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: It took me back to deal with that trauma, the traumatic event that really was the root cause of all these effects going on in my life.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: And once I started dealing with this root of the sexual abuse, then God just ordered the steps after that.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: He just paved the way for me to know where my next step was.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: And I didn't, you know, I can't, like I said, I can't say that I instantly was, you know?
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, my past is erased.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: To him when I repent it was, but for me.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: I was still dealing with all the things.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, pit it was, but for me I was still dealing with all the things.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: But, yes, yes, but this took me back to deal with that root that needed to be pulled out of my life and, um, you know, like I said, once I started dealing with that root, then then God just really ordered the steps after now, after that, how did you finally pull the root out?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: I would say that God really helped me to truly forgive that, because I had walked all those years too, not only angry at him, the abuser, angry at myself.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: I had a lot of anger towards myself and I would say forgiveness played the biggest part in that, which was only from God, because we can't forget situations like that.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: Just Right, just naturally in our own mind, right, it's definitely a God thing when he can forgive through us, and I believe that a lot of that came from forgiveness.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: Easier said than done.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: I think it's a letting go of of an anger that's, you know and human nature, well-deserved Right.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: So it's it's painful but it's also a very beautiful thing and I allowed God to clean that infection out.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: That wound from my childhood just festered and it infected my whole being, and spiritually.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: That's what it did to me and that's why I'm so big on the root cause because I've been through that experience myself is that when you go and you take care of the root cause, then the effects start diminishing, with God's help.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: But, forgiveness was huge and, like I said, none of this is my glory, none of this is my doing, because I really had to have the Lord's help for this, as many do when it's something like sexual abuse, it has to be a God thing, because there's a lot of anger there that you don't want to let go of because you have a right, because you have a right and so that he, he's so gracious because he, in his own way, again, god just gently guided me through that.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: It wasn't a one-time deal, because still still, you know I'm triggered by.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: You know my abuser's dead and gone and still you're triggered by that unforgiveness again.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: You know, look how many years of my life he took from me.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: Look at you know why did he do that?
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: You know the simple thoughts, even sometimes.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: And forgiveness, once you learn that, once you learn how beautiful it can be in your life because it frees yourself.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: You know the scripture says release, release and you will be released.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: You know, free it and you'll be set free.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: When it says condemn not and you won't be condemned.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: And so forgive and you will be forgiven.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: And so forgive and you will be forgiven.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: You know the translations of that are beautiful.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: I love the release and you'll be released.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: And it's not according to whether they're worthy of that or not, it's just you do it for God's sake.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: He died for that and so forgiveness was the big one there and it's probably what took me the longest to really die to myself.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: Will on that one, and I'm sure a lot of people can understand that.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of people think and believe and have forgiven things like this.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: They think that they've forgiven them and moved on, and I've heard that a lot.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, I've forgiven them.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: But you could see that there are when unforgiveness is really there.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: It does have effects and I think something like this, courtney, does require a supernatural ability that comes from God to really forgive.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Our part is exactly what you said a second ago the dying to yourself, the willingness to release it into God's hands, and then there is a supernatural ability.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: I believe he just really takes it from us.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: He just takes it and lifts that off of us.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: But, like you said, forgiveness is also something we have to do continually, every time we're triggered, every time we feel it we have to remember.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, I've forgiven that, I've.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: I've moved beyond that I'm just gonna push that away and let it go, because the enemy's always gonna want to bring anything back to pull us back right.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: So I love how you, how you, how you clarified that and said that, yeah.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: And so, since you were able to get that root out, another I think a very important point to make is where you're at today, in your ministry, in your walk in your life.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: Do you think it would exist without what you've been through?
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: no, and I have a lot of thoughts on that.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'll get into them because they're kind of between me and the lord, but, um, I have questions to him sometimes.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: You know about, I don't believe that anything.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: I do not believe that and I know that nothing, such as sexual abuse, comes from that sin of human nature, man, and the enemy is planned right but, he does promise to make all things good yeah and I think I'm bringing it up and you don't have to share your personal, but he does promise to make all things good.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I'm bringing it up and you don't have to share your personal questions that you have, but I'm bringing it up to show purpose, because our ministry is often in the place of our greatest heartache, often in the place of our greatest heartache.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: And because what the enemy meant for evil, god will use for good.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: And so no one is going to do what you can do for the kingdom and for others, because no one even though other people have been abused, no one is going to have your testimony, your story, your empathy, your insight, your understanding except for you.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: And isn't it amazing that nothing is ever wasted with God.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: You are such a beautiful person with a beautiful family.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: You have your own podcast ministry, your own ministry inside a church.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: You have your own ministry out to the world with music and what you're doing with other people, and it's because of where you've been that you can show up in this way.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: You know, and yes, you're right, god doesn't.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: God doesn't do any of that.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: Evil is evil, but if we allow God into our pain, then he can take us through the process and make it then he can take us through the process and make it something beautiful in the end.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I love that.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: So I allowed God to clean this infection out and let him heal this properly to where it just became a scar, this sexual abuse.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: I can talk about it now.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: There's not that anger, there's not that.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: You know, isn't that a beautiful thing?
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: And the thoughts are hardly there, it's so dim.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: Because it was so infected for so many years.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: But now that it's online as well, I just want to share with others these things.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: Look at the scar and see what God can do for you.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: Because everybody has wounds in some kind of way.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: Everybody has different traumas happen in their life, big or small, and we're all affected by life because life is, you know, the ruler of darkness, is present, and our humanity and all of that.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: And so there's these traumas and problems in our life.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: You know, we're not going to be exempt from that until Jesus comes, but he gives us that hope and that grace to overcome that through his spirit Right.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: So allowing God to do that and then sharing your.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: I love what you're doing, because our testimonies are not meant to be in vain.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: No, right, right.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not meant to be in vain, and I always want to share mine wherever I can, you know because?
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: And so I love this opportunity.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: Thanks again so much for the invite, because it's really giving God glory for all that he did.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: Now we think of the 10 lepers, and there was only one that came back and thanked him for what he had done.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: And then he was made whole, you know.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: So we do overcome by the blood of the lamb and by the word of our testimony.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: And so I think, it's a beautiful thing that somebody like you and then you know others that share their testimony like this.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 3: It is relatable because we've all been through different things and it might not be the same exact thing, but there's just so much hope, hearing of what God can do in somebody's life.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 3: And yeah, my family God's blessed me with the most beautiful family and the kids of mine.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: My kids God's used them through my restoration.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: It's amazing.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: That's why I know age doesn't matter, because they are innocent and pure and they have that childlike faith and they'll pray over me, they'll speak over me and you know, I don't want to say that I'm the kid in the household, but they're just spiritually mature.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah right.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: They haven't quite encountered that darkness, so they've been protected from that and of course every parent does what they can to protect them from that.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: But, they have this genuine walk with the Lord and it's just beautiful that God not only delivered me and saved my soul, but he also added on some extra bonus blessings and they pray for me.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: When I've had sad days of grief or loss, they'll pray for me.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: My husband's been amazing.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: He has the family pray for me.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 3: We make sure the house is.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: We have the spirit of God in our house.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: For other people that come in that are broken and want to feel His spirit, just feel it when they walk in.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: No, it's undeniable.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 3: So my family has been an amazing blessing to me and kids have been very supportive with Creative Studio and how I am trying to to say my testimony.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: Let my testimonies be out there and help somebody, but also let others speak their testimonies.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: Everybody has a powerful story when they return to their father's house.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: Like that's already just a miracle and a beautiful story, no matter how it is.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 3: When they make it back home and now I came to God before I came to the church building.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: But when they make it back to God, our.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: Father, it is the biggest miracle that God brought back into his life.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: It really is, it really really is.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is, yeah, it really is.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's something to be celebrated.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I heard this many years ago and it helped me where I was at.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: But it said, he said, the preacher said, the deeper that you go in despair, the depths down that you go is only an indication of the height that you will go.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: Because every time they build a skyscraper, before the skyscraper ever reaches its glorious height, they dig miles and miles and miles into creative foundation.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: And that blessed me so much because I felt like I was in my own life.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: My own story had been so low, and so it was very encouraging.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: But that's why I also like to talk about the depths that people live in, because that is such the glorious, miraculous work of God when he pulls them out.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: But what I was alluding to with you getting the Holy Ghost at three, the Holy Ghost at three I felt like that was a special thing.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: I felt like that was a God-ordained thing.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: I felt that that was an uncommon thing, and maybe it's becoming more common, but I felt like that was just a little jewel for you to hold on to, because the Lord knew you know, he, he, he sees the end from the beginning.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: He knew what you would face and he gave you a foundation that would eventually bring you back, ultimately, to him.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: So I I think it's beautiful when people get the Holy Ghost at such a young age.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: My first thought is it's going to carry them through whatever is coming in their life.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: God just so miraculously gave it to them here in order to carry them and, knowing they would, I know wherever they're at, they will come back, because I just believe that I believe if.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: God begins a good work in us, he will complete it, and there's such comfort in that, no matter where they're at, as far away as they might be, and so I hope that that didn't sound offensive or negative in any way.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: I was just trying to allude to how unique and very special and pure and innocent and sensitive to the Spirit of God that you must have been to be able to so easily receive that at such a beautiful age.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: I, I, I think, uh, I think through all of it and I know that you know this now.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: God has always had you, but it's wonderful to look back and see all of the places when you didn't know he had you, that he really had you.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: And I think, I wonder, courtney, because you just said something I think about often and one day I'm going to do a podcast on it.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: I know that we have to die to ourself and ourself will turn that over to God, but I always wonder, lord, what's coming first?
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: Because when trust is broken through violation, we lose trust for everybody.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: Trust is broken for everybody.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: When we are wounded to that degree, we don't trust anybody, let alone trust God, because you didn't believe he loved you.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: So for anyone listening, I just want to say that if you could just take a step to believe, what if God really loves you?
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: What if all the stories about God are actually true, the good ones, not the bad ones that he really does love you?
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: What if you could just gamble on that, take a risk on that, test him.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: The Bible says test him and taste him and see that he's sweet, right.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: Everything else comes after, because that crossroads of surrender that you're talking about is not so difficult when you encounter his love.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: It's just so much easier.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: Does it prick us?
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, are we aware of what that is going to mean?
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, but when you just really come face to face with the love of God, like you did, die into yourself, I think it's the most beautiful thing.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: It's like you said it's the only way we really get to live.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: It's the only way we really get to receive everything he created us to be and have.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: You know, the devil, just as you said, he just taints it, he just twists it all up and he makes it something so very different than what it truly, truly is in God.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: So so, courtney, I always end with two questions.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: What do you want to say to the backslider who might be out there?
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: It's distorting.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: So, courtney, I always end with two questions.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: What do you want to say to the backslider who might be out there who might share similarities to your story?
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 3: What do you want to say to them?
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, know that you're not alone, know that we feel that way when we're away from God.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 3: But hearing stories like this can lift your faith too, because we feel so alone when we're away from God, but you're not.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 3: Those feelings are real sometimes, but that doesn't with stories that have encountered the love of God in those kind of areas.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: That is meant for you as well.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 3: God loves you the same way God loves us so much, and you're loved.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 3: You're not alone and the Father is waiting for you, and the Father is waiting for you.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 3: God is our Father, and something switched with me when I started getting my healing, and that was he wasn't just God to me, and that's powerful, that he was my Father and when you view.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: Him.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: When you're able to view, just like you were saying, kathy, like a slight belief of maybe he does love me.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 3: When you start to believe that love that he has for you, it definitely turns everything around.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 3: And yes, it does.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 3: He draws us to repentance.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 3: So his love for us changes everything.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: And so I think that, above all, I would tell you that you're loved and you're not alone, because those are two of the biggest feelings you know, and you also face a lot of fear when you're away from God, and God wants you in his arms.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: He misses you, he loves you, he doesn't want you anywhere but in his arms.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: So come home to him, come home.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: And life gets better.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: And life gets better.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: It does.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so much better.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: Once he touches it, yep.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: What would you say to the parent who has a child or a spouse or a loved one out there?
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 3: You know I haven't walked through that and so I can't talk from experience, but I can talk about what I needed, you know, in my time away from God, and that was, again, love.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: So pray for them, of course, but allow God's love to be in you.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: As you know, a parent, a friend I think you had asked about a parent as you know a parent, a friend I think you had asked about a parent allow God's love to be in you so it can come out, it can ooze out of you and they can feel that love of God, because when they're in that darkness, there's no light around them besides what we have living inside of us, that they can, can, it can, it can shine on them and give them a little bit of light.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 3: And so again, god's love, it's so big.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: It's so big.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: It's life changing, the love that he has for us.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 3: So love, love them back home.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: That's what I would say is love them back home.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 3: Love them back home.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: And also, you know my side of the compassion and empathy would be to be easy on yourself, because I know that you know some people start blaming themselves for their child's walk from God, and no condemnation comes from Christ.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 3: No condemnation at all, and so let him guide you.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: Let him again.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 3: I haven't experienced this, so I don't necessarily want to tell you what to do.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying what I needed as a prodigal was just to be loved back.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: Loved back home.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: That's good, Courtney.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: It's as simple as that God's love, not human love, which takes His spirit.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: So God's love loving them back home and obviously the prayers for them.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: Don't stop that because prayers that my mom and dad prayed for me and many others brought me back home yeah, All right Prayers.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, courtney.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: You're beautiful.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to see what else God has in store for you, because all this new business is new.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: So I know she's got music on Amazon.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: Her social media is Creative Studio on Instagram and Facebook, so follow her.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: She's amazing.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you, courtney, god bless you.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, god bless.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: We are so glad you joined us.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, so much God bless.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: We hope you will tune in for our next episode.