Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #354 Half-Arsed Parenting with Susie O'Brien

Transcript

#354 Half-Arsed Parenting with Susie O'Brien · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers Now.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Parenting has never been more intense, and parents are kind
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: of cracking up. We don't have time to do it all.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and dad.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Gooday.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: This is doctor Justin Colson and the author of six
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: books about raising happy families. That I'm here with my
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: podcast partner and my life partner. This is Happy Families. Kylie,
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: mum to our six daughters.
• 0:31
  Speaker 5: Today we're going to be talking with doctor Susie O'Brien,
• 0:35
  Speaker 5: who is an author and a journalist, and we'd love
• 0:39
  Speaker 5: for you Susie to tell us about his off bet.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I've been writing on parenting and social issues for
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: news Corp newspapers for the last twenty years, which makes
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: me feel old. And about twenty five years ago I
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: did a PhD at the University of Queensland and I
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: look back at the title of my thesis that was
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: something to do with post structuralist food coding and analysis
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: of power, which I think is probably good that I
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: leave that worll behind me centrate on nice, positive, simple
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: messages about parenting.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: So you and I, Susie, have had many conversations over
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: the years as you've been looking for content and expert
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: ideas and opinions for your newspaper articles. But I just
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: can you tell me again what was the name of
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: that PhD thesis of yours?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I love it. It was a post structuralist analysis of
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: food code and models of power in the universe.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: Such a show off. Now, just to show off how
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: far you've come since you've become a journalist. What's the
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: title of the new book that you've written that we're
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: going to talk about today.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I've written a book called The Secret of Half Past Parenting,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Raising kids with half the guilt and twice the joy.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: That sounds like a really big leap from where you
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: were in your PhD days.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I did a PhD, and I
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: always thought I was going to become an academic, but
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: what I really wanted to do was be a journalist.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: And so, at age twenty eight, armed with a PhD,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I applied for the Adelaide Advertiser as a cadesh and
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I think they took me on because they felt sorry
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: for me, Like, who is this woman and what does
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: she want? And I've never looked back. I've had the
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: most wonderful twenty years working in newspapers, and the first
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: paper that ever took me on started publishing my work
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: was The Courier Mail in Brisbane. So I'm a very
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: proud expat Queenslander.
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: That's awesome, Susie. Can you tell us how many kids
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: do you have?
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: So? I have three, So my youngest is I have
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: to think about that, eleven, and my oldest is seventeen.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And my partner has two kids aged eight and eleven,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: so between us we've got five. We're a bit like
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: the Brady Bunch, but with no Alice to kind of
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: make the dinner and clean the house.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: You're right in the thick of it now. Your book
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: is basically a manifesto that I think can probably be
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: summed up by this line from chapter one act before.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: I mentioned the line to set up this line. In
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: chapter one, you talk about all the stress and the
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: endless push for being more hands on as parents that
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: mums and dads are experiencing today, and the sacrifices that
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: parents make for their children, and the endless need to
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: do more and do more and do more. And then
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: you say this and I'm quoting doing less parenting doesn't
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: seem to occur to anyone.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: And it's really true. It took me ages to work
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: out what was going wrong with our parenting lives because
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: parents today say they find it hard to find time
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: to do everything. Half the time, they don't even have
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: time to have a bubble bath once a week. And
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: so these days, often in families we've got mum and
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: dad both working full time or working a lot. We
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: put our hands up to be very hands on it
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: the kinder and the school and the footy club. We
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: think we have to do everything asked of us, and
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: we find that when the intensification of parenting means that
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: we are expected to be managing their friendships very hands on.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: At the school, we're taking them to activities and play
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: dates all weekend. Like, parenting has never been more intense,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: and parents are kind of cracking up. We don't have
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: time to do at all. And so what we're doing
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: is we're certainly the first thing that goes into our
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: social lives, and it certainly anything that doesn't do with
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the family socializing. So mum's book club, mum's bubble bath,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: mum's wine with the friends, and people are also doing
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: less work. You know, sometimes we're cutting back on work
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: hours so that we can be there for the kids.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: But doing less parenting hasn't occurred to anyone, like cutting
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: out some of that hands on, intensive, time consuming parenting
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: that isn't really making any of us happy, but which
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: we think we have to do to be a good
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: parent these days.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: I'm really curious, Susie. What were your parents like growing up.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Out of the seventies? Oh god, Actually, my mother was
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: listening in on one interview we did, and she was
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: texting me the whole time with tales of her lax parenting.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Like mother was saying that she had to organize her
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: own eighth birthday because mum and dad had been out
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: the night before and just showed those signs of getting
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: out of bed. So she cleaned the house, she made
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: the party food or you know, put it out on
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the table, and made her own birthday cake aged eight.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: And look, it wasn't like that. Most of the time.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: They were very very dutiful, very good parents. But the
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: thought of them leaving work early to take my sister
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: or to activities, the thought of them arranging their weekends
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: around what we wanted to do instead of stuff that
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: they wanted to do around the house, mostly kind of
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: cementing things into the ground. You know, what parents did
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: back in the seventies wouldn't have ever occurred to them,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Like they ran their own lives and we fitted in
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: with them. I'm not necessarily saying we have to go
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: back to that, but I think the balances moved too
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: far in the other direction.
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: Justin was reading a line to me as he was
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: devouring the book the other night, and it made me
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: laugh out loud. You're a proponent of the three second rule.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, once you become a parent, you have to
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: apply the three second rules to everything, you know, to
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the dropped ice cream, to the dropped dummy, to daddy's pants.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: You know, now we're a parent, three seconds all you're
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: going to get.
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: I actually saw a really cool meme the other day.
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: It was a piece of bread on the ground and
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: then there was a sergeant germ and then a whole
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: heap of lucky germs at the other end, and he
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: was like, wait.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: Three seconds, don't jump on the bread until three seconds
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  Speaker 4: is up.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: And you guys would know, you know, the more kids
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: you have, the lower you stand it's drop and you
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: know that's not necessarily a bad thing. You know, when
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: you have the first kid, they drop the dummy and
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: you sterilize it and pop out the new jummy that
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: you've got in your nappy bag. When there's second kid
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: drops their dummy, you run under the hot water tap
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: and put it back in. And a third kid drops
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: their dummy, you lick it and you put it straight.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: We've got We've got We've got six kids, Susy, so
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: we we've lived that dream.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Nightmare no dummies for number six.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: We're going to continue this in Justice Ex Suzy. We
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: we're going to find out a little bit about maybe
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: some provocative things that you've written in your brand new book.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: That's right after this. It's the Happy Families Podcast.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: to feel bad or in trouble. The Do's and donts
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: of Discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at Happy
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: families dot com dot au slash shop.
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: poor parent who just wants answers now and today we've
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: been talking with journalist and author Susie O'Brien about her
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: brand new book. We're having a lot of fun doing it.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: Too, So, Susie, something that I found really provocative was
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: what you said about the idea that parents are always
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: complaining that they don't have time.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: We talked about this just briefly before, but I think
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: that it's worth spending more time on it because you've
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: gone to the data in the book and according to
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: the National Center for Social and Economic Modeling, ossies have
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: filled in their time used data surveys and we have
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: about twenty percent of our days available for leisure. Now,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: first of all, I looked at it and I thought, kriky,
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: I'd do anything for twenty percent of my day as leisure.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: But I know that it's an average, so on average.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: While some parents are going to rubbish that and say
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: I do not have that amount of time, the nat
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: SEM data says that we do actually have this time.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: And is it that our kids are now getting it
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: with us? Like, what are we doing with that extra
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: twenty percent of our days that's available for leisure?
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that our kids. We're doing things with
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: and for our kids. And you know what, in some
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: ways that's not a bad thing, but it means that
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: we were not actually don't have time for anything else,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: and we're filling our time driving our kids around to
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: places that they could probably get to themselves where, not
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: only dropping them off at sporting matches like my parents
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: certainly used to do. My dad used to sit in
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the Kingswood out the back, you know, about a block
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: away and listen to the Google on the radio because
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: they were like the thought of watching my sister and
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I for endless hours play sport was just not on
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: his radar. He would have driven home, but we lived
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: on the other side of town. So you know, I
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: think we're filling our days with things that don't necessarily
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: make us happy, but we feel compelled to do these days.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And you know, I look at Lego, and that's a
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: really good example. When I was growing up in the
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: seventies and eighties, Lego. You'd get a new box of Lego,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: you think it was Christmas. You'd open it out onto
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: the living room floor. Your parents might swear if they
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: stand on a piece, that's about the extent of their
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: engagement on it. And they would leave us to make
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: our wonky creations these days, you know, lego is all branded.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: You spend two hundred dollars on the Mandalorian X Wing
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: star Fighter whatever they're called. And the parents sit down
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: and they do the lego with.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: The kids, and there's right and the wrong way to
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: do it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what, the kids aren't happy because
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: they've been told that they're doing it wrong. The parents
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: aren't happy because it's boring, let's face it, and it's
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: expensive and it takes up hours of our time. And
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: when that X wing plane or whatever it's called has
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: been finished eight hours later by the dad, often it
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: goes up on the high shelf because it's too valuable
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: to be played with.
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: That's just nuts.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: We're giving our kids these lego, but we're not actually
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: letting them play with it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: So I just I've had a thought. Susie's had been talking.
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: You're saying that you know, as parents we should ease up.
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: That you know, it's okay for us to have bake
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: beans on toast for dinner and stop trying to do
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: it all. But for me as a mum, I have
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: to admit that, even though I'm really exhausted, I also
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: take pride in, you know, serving up beautifully cooked meals
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: for my kids and you know, making my house look beauty.
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: You know, as a mum of six girls, like I
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: wish it wasn't so full on all the time. But
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: I don't love it when I don't do all of
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: that stuff because it just it just it doesn't make
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: me feel great. So I personally feel good when I'm
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: able to do all of the things that I want
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: to do. So what would you say to someone who's
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: argued that this book may be just a call for
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: mediocrity and an acceptance of the meh whatever kind of
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: approach to parenting.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I think that if what you're doing makes you happy
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: and makes the people in your life happy, then go
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: for gold. I mean, there's a big part of this
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: book that is about trust your gut. Like you know,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the answers people say all the time are my kids
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: on too many spending too much time on screens? If
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you're asking the question, then they probably are the biggest
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: thing that younger mothers are saying to me. And done
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: weeks of media interviews now about the book, the biggest
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: question they raise is do I have to cook everything
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: from scratch? Is a squeezy pow okay, and I say
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to them, how would I know? If you're asking the question,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: then it's obviously an issue. So it probably is okay
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: to use the odd squeeze pouch. So it's really up
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: to you and trusting your gut and your instincts as
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: a parent. If you, as a parent don't want to,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: you know, the cooking the beautiful meals from scratchel, from
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a can, whatever, and keeping the house in order is
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: important to you, then.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Go for gold.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: But it might be that in order to get that
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: done and stay sane, you hold back on some of
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the activities and you say to the kids, I'm not
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: driving anyone anywhere on Sunday, so that I've actually got
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: some time for some family time where I'm not cooking
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: or cleaning or doing something for someone else. So it's
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: actually about making conscious decisions about what suits us as
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: families and not following what I tell people to do,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: or not following what the Instagram you know influences say
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: is the right way to parent.
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: Love this approach, Susie, just that recognition that you know,
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: parenting is not this one size fits all, and you
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: know we have to go through our own filters to
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: kind of work out you know what sits well with
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: each of.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Us, and you know what it's about giving us permission
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to parent the way that we want. And I think
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: for me, and like I said, by partner says, because
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: his parents never drove him anywhere, he always talks about
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: how he walked everywhere, and of course this is the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: middle of Melbourne, so it wasn't that bad. It wasn't
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: through the snow or anything. He says, Oh, you drive
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: the kids too many places, and I say to that him, yeah,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: But for me, particularly with my oldest son, it's our
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: time together. Maybe it's an excuse, but if I wanted
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to say no, I would. And so it's actually about
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: going through that process of working out what makes you
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: happy as a parent, and no one else can do
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: that for us. And I think what we're what we're
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: letting happen is we're letting other people decide what a
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: good parent is like we're letting other people have control
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: over our guilt and our minds about what we should
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: be doing and how we should be spending our time.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: And if having take away two nights a week, which
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: means that you can go to the park and throw
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the ball with the dog and kick the footy with
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: the kids gives you that time, that extra hour in
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the day, then that might be more important than cooking
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: from scratch every night. Or you might feel that that
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: meal and knowing that exactly what's gone into it is
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: more important for you.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: Susy. If there was one thing, just one message that
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: you really want parents to take from the book, what
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: would it be.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I want people to drop the guilt. And one of
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: the things that people say is I don't seem to
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: be able to raise my kids the way I want to,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and you think about that, that's nuts because where the
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: ones raising them. I want people to think about what
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: they're doing as parents and question everything. You don't have
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: to do everything that's asked of you. You don't have
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: to parent the way you think other people want you
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: to do it. They're your kids. Back his se and
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: make your own decisions.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: You go, girl. It's a funny book, loads of great insights,
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: some surprising data, and it's well researched, as you would
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: expect from doctor Susie O'Brien. Plus it probably will make
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: you fall in love with parenting again. That's my parenting
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: review of it. Susi O'Brien. What do we need to
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: know about the book? Its title, and where we can
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: get it.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: It's called the Secret of Half Fast Parenting and it's
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: in all good bookshops now, it's online, and there's even
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: going to be an audio book, So the Secret of
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Half Us Parenting.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: Thanks so much, Doctor Suzi O'Brien. We hope you've enjoyed
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: the podcast and thank you for listening.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Leave us a rating and review. By the way, if
• 15:36
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• 15:38
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• 15:40
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• 15:43
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• 15:45
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• 15:47
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• 15:50
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• 15:52
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• 15:54
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• 15:59
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  Speaker 4: and leave one for us. Five stars are the ones
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: that we like because that's when people get to foind
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: out about the podcast. We appreciate Justin rule On from
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: Bridge Media for his wonderful work producing the podcast, and
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you'd like more
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: information about making your family happy, you can find it
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: at happy families dot com dot au