Latest / The Scotchy Bourbon Boys / Exploring the Spirit of Whiskey: Tradition, Innovation, and the Metaphysical Journey with The Alchemist Alan Bishop

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Exploring the Spirit of Whiskey: Tradition, Innovation, and the Metaphysical Journey with The Alchemist Alan Bishop · The Scotchy Bourbon Boys

• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Sure, and I can come down Friday next Friday and I'm staying the night, so I'll either just walk around and you can tell me to get the hell out, and I'll go over to the brewery or you know whatever.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Whatever, I would like to see a master blender.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Jason Giles has brought back Rosewood Tr Rosewood by purchasing plus contract distillate barrels of bourbon in Kentucky and Indiana.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Once they mature, he ships them to Texas.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I have to defend myself against this rye thing.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Mueller, there's a reason I love Pennsylvania.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: The Rosewood and the Rosewood single barrels offer a unique bourbon and rye experience.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Please drink responsibly and never drink and drive.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Is that all.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man, I've drank a lot of that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Listen, the main thing that I, if I am drinking whiskey of any kind right now, unless it's something like, you know, cheap tractor whiskey, like Sazerac, it's either Stolen Wolf or Liberty Pole.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Most of the time, Scotch and Burden boys.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Amazingly, hell, we're making some noise.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're the Scotch and Burden boys.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: We're here to have fun.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: We hope you know we're here to have fun.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, that was Kenny Fuller singing our Scotchy Bourbon Boys theme song on Tiny.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: We got Super Nash and a special guest, guest star, I have to say guest star tonight.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Uh, alan, bishop of old homestead, if you have ghosts, you have everything and one piece of the time distilling institute.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Welcome alan and distillers talk and distillers talk.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, are you still doing that?
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Does christy still go on that?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely, she sure does yes, excellent, but uh, so great to have you on tonight.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I'll just quick do it wwwscotchiebourbonboyscom for all things scotchy bourbon boys, glenn karen's t-shirts, and then also check us out on Instagram and X and all the major podcast formats Apple, spotify and iHeart mainly, but whatever format you listen to, like, listen, subscribe, leave comments and make sure that you listen.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I covered the—.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Are you okay?
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: Did you smell a toaster?
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: No, make sure you leave good feedback.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I had it all down real quick and then at the end it just wasn't there.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: That's how it is lately.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: It's like the greatest thing ever is trying to remember somebody's name, where you can picture everything about them.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: You know what they said last night, but you can't remember their name.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And they were on TV.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: You know they're that famous.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: You're just sitting there going what is that actress name?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: You might sit there for 15 minutes.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden it goes away and all of a sudden, oh, that's the name, but it's out of context.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: It's like I think, uh, and I haven't been drinking, all right, so we have alan coming on.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: It's sponsor week.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Everybody, welcome.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Uh, this is this podcast.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: We've already been talking a lot about different things.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Uh, we were just finishing up.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Uh, we were.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: If you guys want a pre-game, always you've got facebook, we're live facebook and youtube, so that always on there.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: But if you're just listening, you want a 45 minute fix of us, uh, just keep listening on all the podcast formats.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: But I will say this when you, as a podcaster, so what I found out about YouTube and Facebook, the longer you're on.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I learned this from my son, who's a video game and the main video game people that have podcasted and became famous on YouTube or whatever.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: They basically play video games for eight hours a day online, so they're playing the game and people come on at all times so they get this giant viewership because all they're ever doing is playing the game.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So I have this thing I want to come up with and I might do it with Martin Kennedy.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I have this thing I want to come up with and I might do it with Martin Kennedy.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: He makes Buah Irish whiskey and with Pat Burns down in Columbus and he's in Ireland, brings it back and then he tells me about what's coming over on the ship.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: But it's Ohio Irish whiskey made in Ireland.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And Martin Kennedy used to work for Talamore Dew that's how he was a rep for them.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: So they're doing that there.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: But I was thinking I'd just go down to the Irish pub at 8 o'clock in the morning, I start the podcast for Facebook Live and YouTube and just go all day drinking Irish whiskey I mean ultimate podcast, right for whiskey.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: Then I'll get known for the guy that just drinks all day.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: What did jj say?
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: He said can we drink for eight?
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: hours.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, sure, you can join us there anytime, and it doesn't.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I mean they have bourbon, whatever, but it's irish and that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of like that's what I found that the longer I'm on YouTube, the way more views I get, but it's live, so as soon as it's over, nobody like keeps checking lives.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: They want to watch it live.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: You know that's what it's there for.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So anyways, let's get back on the discussion.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Alan on rye whiskey.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let me clarify, and I'll try to do this delicately, jeffrey, jeffrey.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Not Mueller Jeffrey.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I have always loved rye whiskey and I always loved Solomon Scott.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I think I know what you were driving at or what maybe you were remembering.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: So I do not like 95.5, and I do not like 51% rye.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, you did say that's okay, so then yes, okay.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I love rye whiskey, though, and hence my two, two of my favorite distilleries of all time.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: You guys are drinking a night Liberty pole as well as stolen wolf from the appropriate rye whiskey state of Pennsylvania, not Kentucky.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Right, and I love Kentucky as well, but it is not a rye state.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Although I and and I understand what I'm about to say is going to be controversial amongst the people that you run and maybe with you, but I think in my own honest to God opinion, knowing Dan McKee, that Michter's makes the best rye that comes out of Kentucky and it's almost paying homage.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: It pays homage to what comes out of Pennsylvania to an extent, except I think there's definitely the bourbon part of it.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: It's those caramels and whatever where the the Pennsylvania rye can have whatever, but they are definitely um, as, as I've been going through them, there is there is a definite aspect of Pennsylvania reclaiming rye.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: That needs to happen because that's what they were doing now in indiana.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: We were talking about a little bit about the rye and whatever, but I really think, from what I've been tasting of everything that you've done, that I really think indiana was good at apple brandy like damn good at apple brandy, because the apple brandy is that you make apple brandy taste and then you also age it and so apple brandy almost is like whiskey, and that's not how I've ever thought of it.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I've never.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: When I had apple brandy before, it usually ended up with me and the toilet having a relationship, and that's not the case with what you make.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: It's a totally different thing, right right, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: That is the heritage of Indiana.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: for sure there's other heritages there that I haven't ever touched on.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: I got to say this because Kev just said this and this is meant to me and Jeff, I'm pretty sure If you break him, you keep him until he's not broken anymore.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Ask Aunt.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Angie when he's broken.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's absolutely true.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I haven't been broken for a little while, so thankfully, hopefully, that won't be the case, but there's always the opportunity for a shirtless pick.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree with you.
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: I haven't been broken since.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: I was broken with Ames the last time at German on the banks oh.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Jesus.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: As a real quick aside, I agree with you.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Mickers does a fine job.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying take it home where it belongs.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I also have personal feelings about that because of the way that, yeah, that's a whole nother thing, but I said I am well aware of what that is and what happened, and, and, and we're the whole.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: so I agree it's probably wasn't the people making those moves and we're not andrea Dan, exactly.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And I love you know that's one thing.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Initially, when you first start, you hear all the stuff about everything and people talk about transparency in the industry and yes, I think in a lot of cases transparency can be done and used to your advantages.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: There's a couple Irish whiskeys that have so much transparency.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's insane.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Just hear me out.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Here's a couple Irish whiskeys that have so much transparency.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It's insane.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Just hear me out.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Here's a marketing idea.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying I'm throwing this out there for funsies, just for funsies.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying that that river connects to another famous river in Pennsylvania and you could get some steamships to pull up in Louisville, load those stills on those steamships and move that whole thing back home where it belongs.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: And what great PR that would be for the world.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Super expensive, sure, but awesome.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: It's not like, at this point, when you look at it, they have the money.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I mean it's right, but but what?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: What I will say one way or another?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Um, I think pennsylvania is is doing what it needs to do and and and and.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, you have different kind of things, but it's kind of cool to see pennsylvania come back with the rye.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's you like, they do ryes first and it's kind of like cheesemakers, I was explained to me.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Either you make mozzarella and cheddar or you make Swiss, but you can't do both Because the Swiss and it's just like it's the same thing.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: In Pennsylvania, they're making rye.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: In.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania they're making rye and then they'll do a bourbon, but it's the rye that they're making that you taste, whereas in Kentucky it's going to be a bourbon and secondary rye, there's no doubt.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: We've got to give a shout-out to Laura Petruzio because she has definitely helped pushing to bring that rye back to Pennsylvania and rye whiskey and doing a great job Shout-out to her.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: She's done a fantastic job and she's in a state with, again, liberty Pole folks and also Eric and Avi, and JJ is down there.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Somebody needs to put that boy in a distillery and give him some major ownership in that distillery, because you're missing out on one of the greatest distillers in the United States, greatest young distillers with a bright path in front of them.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: If somebody just gave him a ship that he was allowed to sail.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: He just said he does live at the Confluence.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Right, See, they can take them stills right up there.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Drop them off and hire JJ.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Everything will be made right in the world.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Well, let's even just order them and put them up there.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Right, put the small set up there.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Just send them up.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would make sense.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And they got all the stuff.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: But, like I said, I was getting into transparency.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: But there's a certain aspect where some distilleries they're not trying to fool you because I don't think you can fool anybody right but they produce damn good whiskey and that's that's.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: That's the key in the end.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It's like whether you're transparent or or produce damn good whiskey, you know, it's so funny, all the transparent people with you.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Look, it's just like people leave and they all tell you what.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: They don't tell you what a mash bill is.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: They don't not telling you all the details that everybody.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: But at the same time you look on online and they'll say, oh, this is what the mash bill is, because obviously they've had workers there and they might have been sworn to silence when they were there, but when they left they weren't.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: You know you can't stop it.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: So but right, well, and it's that's.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons why I like the minor leagues, like we were saying before this got started.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Right, and I've worked at the small distilleries, because here's the way you always have to look at it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Obviously, you have to make money.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Everything has to be profitable.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Right, but then has to be profitable, right, but then you, so you have art, and then you have money, and then somewhere in between, on that scale, there's integrity, right, and so, yeah, I'll stay with the small guys.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I I so weird because, uh, two of the our friends, our biggest friends, is you're, uh, like one of our biggest friends, and then our other biggest friend, greg schneider, who's the, and you guys are very you're.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: You're the same in your passions, but different, different total paths to get to where you at, where you're at, but at the same time, you both were in a same, similar situation and both ended up with leaving one, and then he's in the process of where he's going to go, and you're already at where you're going to go.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like as a whiskey person who start, start, I was just I mean, you already had been through so much and whatnot, but I was just like a baby when and you basically took us and it's and same thing with greg and explained so much to us and that we were so grateful for that.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Um, and he did it, you know, and we promoted and grew up with your brands but, right, as the brands were hitting their peak whoosh.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: And then it's just like it's so hard because it's kind of like cheering for, or a quarterback playing for the football team the first time they're with all their people the same age, couple, veterans and they do it all together.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: They, they win and whatever.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And if you're a great quarterback, then all the other players leave and you start over and you do it again.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: And if you're tom brady, the last time you go to a different team and everybody's like 20 years younger than you and you might do it, but it's a totally different experience from all three different levels and that's the same thing for me.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Now I've never experienced my favorite person leaving his whiskey which was my favorite whiskey and then all of a sudden trying to drink that whiskey.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And now it's like my favorite person isn't at the place.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: So then you look in the glass and you're just like you see what you want, you, I'm like little teardrops in and then I I don't see your face in there anymore and then I'm like I don't want to drink that whiskey.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: It's just like it doesn't change.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: it doesn't change the integrity of what's in the bottle, though, which is great, I'm telling you 100%, alan.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Drinking whiskey with you makes whiskey taste better.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: It's just like.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It's just no way around it.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's the same thing drinking with Greg.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I've got all these bottles of what I won't say behind me.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I'm like I don't want to drink them anymore.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and to be clear, we can say Spirits of French Lick, because the truth of the matter is, I hope that Spirits of French Lick lives on, regardless of whatever it is what it is.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: You know, that is what it is.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of my legacy my IP because the way laws work in the United States is not my IP, but I'm proud of it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I'm proud of it.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I just hope that they can keep their boat righted, or get their boat righted and find a star and sail it by that and stick with it, because they can't float off of my reputation anymore and I won't let them.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Right, I'm going to try and find out, I don't know.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Ok, it's like still sponsoring us and I've been talking to them and for whatever reason, when, when I was with you.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just it's not whatever, but it was hard to get consistent, consistent out of them, or consistency out of them for me.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Consistent out of them, or consistency out of them for me.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: But, now they're damn straight right right on it they don't want to lose it.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: So I guess so, but I got to find out because I'm I don't know how I could put who's there currently on an actual.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to put them on a podcast.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that would do.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: So I've got to figure out what the hell is going on, how to do it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I'm still.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know who's there currently, but yeah, you actually do know who's there currently.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I'll reserve my commentary.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: What I will say is this I know and whatever, but I've got to find out, so I'm not going to find out for bad purposes for you.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: I'm just going to find out what's going on.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Alan, for what you were saying earlier about him.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have all the respect in the world for Greg in particular.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I really think he's a great guy and look up to him.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I bet he and I are very much alike in terms of the way that we we live our life and what we expect in life.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: And I just happened to bet and I don't know him well, just through you guys, I just happened to bet that he's probably about like me.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: He's really not that hard to make happy, really not.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: No, no, and you know, distillers are going to distill and they're going to put their heart and soul into it.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: If they're real distillers, and then whatever the company does with that is on them, yeah well, that's what it came down.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just came down to and just for the same thing.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: It was the same exact scenario setup and it's just like so it became.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: It was becoming successful and they wanted to take away.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And he's like working his ass off.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I mean he was boots on the ground tastings um barrels, so you know single barrel selections, and and then he was.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Then he was picking out staves to make the barrels.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: You know he was a came from the cooperage and then he was.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Then he was picking out staves to make the barrels.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: You know he was a came from the cooperage and then he distilled it with.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: You know, when they did they put it, he was there for the distilling, made sure, and then all the blending was done, and every time they made a purchase of whiskey that wasn't up to the standard, he figured out a way to fix it.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: It's like you know, they bought whiskey from 2012 that was put into used barrels because there was a barrel shortage back then.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: He bought a crap ton of it.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: They tasted it and he's like you can't put this out.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: So he's like, well, here's what we'll do.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: We'll buy brand new French oak barrels, we'll dump it in there for six, eight months and we'll call it double oak and it's a damn good whiskey.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: So he could fix it.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: But there was no acknowledgement of whatever they they.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: They just feel that that was a formula that they can pick and whatever.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know who's even going to do the blend and it's just me and you know it's an art.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Well, one day, many years from now, I'll tell them, I'll tell my story, and then, now, I'll tell my story, and then everybody will be like what I knew the story enough man.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: You did a fine job.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Honestly, what happened?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: You looked at it like it was a job that got you to where you needed to go and, honestly, if you want to believe in a God in one way or another, it's like in the end, in my opinion, god guided you to the perfect exit.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think you could have played that out better.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: You could have wrote it in a movie and it wouldn't have played out any better than what it did I think somebody kind of made a little short movie.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the much more unhinged version of myself, for sure.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, I have said that many times about my life in this industry and my wife can verify this and people that have known me the whole time If I ever actually wrote, really sat down and wrote out all of these things like for for a small craft distiller not distillery distiller for somebody that came from the family that I came from and where I came from, to be able to have pulled off the shit that I've somehow managed to pull off and I don't have a lot to show for it, I don't have a lot of money or anything, but certainly there's been, you know, plenty of attention paid to it.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, you have.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: You don't have a lot to show for it, I don't have a lot of money or anything, but certainly there's been plenty of attention paid to it.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, you haven't.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: You will not believe the shit that I have been through just to stay in this industry.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: It's insane.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: It's insane.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I literally not at Spirits of French Lick, but the other company I literally worked for a guy that I'm convinced was one of the villains from lethal weapon 2.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not even playing.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: She was electrocuting you in a, in a, in a sour south african accent, just oh no, just a whole thing.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's all, that's all behind me, it's all good, I got.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I got cool stuff going on, though I I got all kinds of cool stuff.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, we got, you know.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: It's a path.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Just know that it's a path.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I mean and, and, and.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: If you get out and you wake up every day, you're breathing, you have a great family, you have land, you have your, you know your, your dad and mom, everything and what you're doing, and now you're doing it at a place where you know you, you're part of it, you're actually part of it's part of you, and then you know you.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: This time everything was hands-on, with you involved, to do what you wanted to do.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: And now you're.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Now you're the mad scientist, it's an alchemist, but I, I, you know what you're gonna.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: You make absinthe, you make brandy you're the mad scientist, it's an alchemist, but you make absinthe, you make brandy, you're making and you have that.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: You still want to make some stuff that you know the standard, people come and they know and whatever, because you know it's going to sell.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you make a limited amount of bourbon.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I mean just like people are going to be dying for that crap kimberly said no one would ever believe it because it's absolutely unbelievable.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: But it's 100 true.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: She lived it.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: You're living it, man, still living it.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Just, uh, have a different perspective on it now, I think in a better perspective, or at least a somewhat healthier perspective on it.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you know, I don't have anything to complain about and I don't listen.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: This is the last piece I'll say on Spirits of French Lake, other than to talk about products.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I don't begrudge the owners.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I don't begrudge the owners.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Listen, people are who they are and they can decide to change, be different, be better, if they want to, and if they don't want to, that's their goddamn American right to not do it.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: So you know, I might wake up tomorrow and decide to be an asshole, so you know, and it is what it is.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: But uh, moving on from that, I got all kinds of cool stuff going on.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, but at the same time, the only thing I'll say about it is I just wish they.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: So when you go this is what I I'll you basically search and you find, and you find a treasure box okay, but you don't got the key or the tools to open it, right.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: So you basically work with it and try it and then, when you finally open it, you look in there and even though there's like a million dollars worth of gold coins in there, you go well, I guess I don't want that and you close it up, lock it back up and go on to the next thing, and that's kind of what they did, or some people.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: They get to a point and instead of anything else, rather than coming to a good conclusion, they put a stick of dynamite under and blow it up, and then they just ruin it all.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: They ruin everything trying to get the locks open.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Take the effect and make it the cause.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: So here's a little piece of advice for people who want to start distilleries, since we're going through a little reset with distilleries when you hire a distiller who you know, verifiably knows that they know what the fuck they're doing, make it worth their while to want to stay with their company.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Make it such that they are comfortable enough that they would never have a reason to leave, and make it to where they feel like they are involved, even if you have to bend your will, your ego, on your pocketbook just a little bit and you'd be surprised by how far you'll get.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And I'm not the.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not even necessarily talking about myself, but I've watched many, many of my friends, very talented distillers, be screwed by people who have money, who have no connection to liquor.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, because owners suck, because they don't pay attention to their product, they don't care as long as that bottle is selling and they commodify everything.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: And yes, it is an industry and yes, you have to make money, but take care of the people who take care of you.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Well, ok, that's true.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: But from somebody who's been in other industries.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Ok, so it's not distilling.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: That ownership is like this.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So people now I'm not talking about generational money, I'm talking about people in general who are really really good with managing money.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, whether they're good at so you're good at distilling.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I might be good at art.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: For instance, if you're a big distiller and you're producing high-end allocated bourbon but you also make vodka, tequila and other things, or gin which you know doesn't have to age and people drink it in mixed drinks like crazy, right?
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: What makes the most money allocated bourbon or vodka and gin?
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: So a lot of times they're.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: They're looking at that bottom dollar and they look at it and they see everything.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Now there's where they really get in trouble.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: What I seen is if what their main product, like the vodka or gin, is starting to falter because of marketing, because all that is is marketing.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: You're convincing people to drink stripped spirits to get drunk.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I still, to this day, anybody tries to tell me that it's a good vodka.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: That just means that person made it taste like water.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: That's the ultimate goal of vodka is to have no taste or smell.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: It's like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: But that's just me.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: But realistically, they're just all it's like.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: They can't, they're not able to think creatively.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: So this is where the disconnect happens.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: They're just looking at that and then, because they because what the power of money says to them is status or you know their place it becomes very, what would you say?
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: It makes them arrogant and mean to somebody who's passionate, doesn't care as much about money as them.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: That's why, usually, when you're doing something, and if you don't need as much money as somebody who only cares about money, you know what I'm saying.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: So it's a it's.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I see it in all businesses.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I can see it Now.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: The other aspect is the bigger you get, the less control you have of your money.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, more and more people are doing and then the less the.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: You know as a person at the distillery where you are, where you control pretty much everything, right, alan, or?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: less.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: And you might have a distiller that does that.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I have a question when you had a distiller before not naming any names if they were doing the distillate, did they do a pretty good job of carrying on what you wanted, or is there a lot of times that it wasn't exactly how you would have done it and you had to kind of either fix it or figure it out?
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Just personal, that's just a personal question.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And you dig in deep tonight.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Hold on, jeffrey, okay.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: So first of all, you're correct in what you say about the money side of things.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Now here's the other side of things.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: So the difference with craft distilling versus a lot of those other industries and there are other industries like this, let's say, small batch distilling, because I'm sticking with that, me and Paul Minta and several others are working on this as a thing so the difference is that quite often, the person who has been hired to be that distiller has been hired because they are the only person in that company that has any industry experience not just distilling experience, but industry experience in general and so what that means for them is that there is this expectation from day one that you're going to go far above and beyond what any normal employee would in terms of promoting, talking, writing stories, coming up with label text, coming up with intellectual property.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: That's a whole other conversation I could get into.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: In this industry, it's all kinds of fucked up, and so that's more what I'm driving at.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: If so, if your brand and yes, there are a lot that are making their money off vodka or gin or whatever they're making but if your entire lineup and your entire existence as a distilling company is predicated upon.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: We make very unique, very off the wall expressions that demand a bit of a premium, and that premium is created because the craft of the distiller allows that premium to be created.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Then the owners need to kind of get the fuck out of the way and and go out of their way to make sure that person does not leave one million percent, or they'll leave every time.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And I encourage them, I encourage distillers to do that.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Don't work for carpetbaggers.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Don't do it.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Fuck them.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: They ain't got the talent to do it on their own.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Fuck them, let them go.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: It is what it is and you know, brains come and go all the time and it is what it is.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Uh, as far as training other people, so, or having someone take over for me, um, I only ever gave that a go one time.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: It's a french lick with justin, quite obviously.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I thought he did a really good job on the psych gen that was me throwing him, quite honestly, into the deep end of the pool.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I volunteered him to do a smoke gin for the fucking eclipse and I knew my time was coming to an end and I thought he pulled it off wonderfully.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: They did not give him a chance to prove himself after that?
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, uh, for whatever that's worth now, I'm doing it again now, but it's not so much throwing somebody into the deep end of the pool.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I have a still hand now who, uh, is a home distiller or was a home distiller, is not anymore used to be and has grown up around it and knows his way around.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: A still, I mean this boy, I can turn him loose, I don't have to tell him shit.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: He is watching every video I ever made, read everything I've ever done.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: He intrinsically understands my style of distillation, um, in a way that would be hard to put into words without actually having to physically sit down and train every single thing that I was doing.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Um, don't get me wrong, I still, I still talk to him about things, still, give him ideas, et cetera.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: But there's a first time I've ever met somebody that was already on a level of oh, I can fucking turn you loose and tell you what I want, and that's exactly what's going to happen, which is awesome, because I've never had that before Before.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: It was always like listen, if I get sick or something, you guys are fucked.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: You know, if something goes wrong, you're just shit out of luck.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Uh, so that's.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: This is the first time that I've had that where it's already sort of intrinsically there.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: He already had that knowledge.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm giving him more knowledge, deeper knowledge that I wouldn't normally give you know on one piece at a time, etc.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I get it, but but he already has that foundational basis to build off, build off of you know but those are no.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I honestly I know what you're talking about.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: It's just kind of like there's just certain types of people in the world and where it comes from sometimes surprises you.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've managed enough people.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, what's what?
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: What I really have to do is sometimes and I've learned this over time I do have to not go off the first impression, because sometimes someone will surprise you, not very often, but like 90% of the times.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I know people who are going to work out and if they're for this or that, but I'll give them a week, a week or two just to see if they'll surprise me, because there has been those surprises.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, that's really cool that you found him, because not only does he know what you want, but he has the skill and the desire and it really does come down to the desire.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I honestly think I know, I know I'm not a home distiller Martin's way better, but if I came to work for you, I.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: What I do know is I understand what people are looking for when you're being taught.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I've been taught certain things.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I was an artist.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I learned to be a really good.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: First I was an airbrush artist, then I was a computer artist, I learned it all.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: But from the standpoint is, was I always trying to please my dad the whole time it was happening.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: He would always come up with this or that.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: The the same thing if I was to work for you not saying I'm applying for a job or anything, but I get.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: There's certain people who get people.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I know what you're trying to accomplish and you're not trying to accomplish what I want.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: You're trying to accomplish what you want and you want someone to help you, but by somebody like him, showing that he's willing to do that extra, to find out or know or do what you want and listen.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: So, like you, tell him one thing and the next time it happens he he had listened and he doesn't let the whole still blow up yeah well and even even more than that too.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: I gotta say've got to say this about Tyler.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: So the cool thing about Tyler is and first let me say about Justin I sincerely hope that Justin gets into a distillery somewhere.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: That's really what he wants to do.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I hope he finds somewhere where he can do that at absolutely.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: He did not get a fair shake at Spirits of French Lick, and they can take that however they want to.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I don't care, but he didn't.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I don't care, uh, but he didn't, he didn't set me for a loop when he left Cause all of a sudden things were going.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I had a direction and all of a sudden somebody else was running the doubler.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: The long and short with Tyler is that, uh, it's not even just distilling, right?
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: If I asked Tyler to clean the windows, I don't have to go look at them.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: They're clean.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: I know they're clean.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Yep, If I say, tyler, when you get a minute, I know you're busy as hell because there's only two of us here and we're running around everywhere trying to run three stills at once and do two mash-ins at once, and I say, when you get a minute, can you mop that spot over there?
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I don't have to come back around later and say, hey, tyler, remember, I asked you to mop that spot.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: It's gonna get done.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: He's gonna do it, he's gonna take care of it.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: And I've not ever had that kind of help before.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Short of, there were two guys.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: They had no, no interest in being in the industry full, full time for the rest of their life.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Two guys I had a copper and kings guy named darren leeo went to school with big shout out to him.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: And uh, another guy named nate cox who had worked for uh sazerac for a minute buffalo trace for many years.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Um, that's the only time I've ever had that kind of thing now.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Now tyler has what they had, but he also has the distilling experience, which is, which is phenomenal.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: You know, if I mentioned something theoretical about distillation to tyler and I say hey, tyler, what do you think about this weird thing that Alan wants to do over here, that Alan would do at home if he was at home distilling?
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Tyler has enough experience that he can immediately wrap his mind around exactly what I'm saying and then he can also pro and con it for me, as opposed to it just being a thing in my head, which is great, because now I can bounce that stuff off people.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: So now we're going to get some good Frankenstein whiskey right there, because you've got your Igor.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, I very much so do, I very much so do.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: He's a beast.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Awesome, that's.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: That's awesome to hear Super, and I bet you he doesn't miss much work.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: He, no, no, he doesn't.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, you know, I've got Jolie there too, which has been the goal is to get back together with her and do something for a long time, and then my dad will be coming back part time as well.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, we've got Steve and Heather, and it's a it's a, it's a team effort and it's and it's going to be a big fucking deal is what I would say.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: It may not be.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: It ain't going to be a 50-state distillery.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It doesn't need to be.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: It's an experiential distillery with limited distribution, but it will become a distillery that those people who the people who are at the lake will already be there, but the other people that want to learn distillation and see distillation, it's going to become a thing where they're going to want to travel to come see this thing in a way that very few distilleries can be so do you have your rickhouse?
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: we do okay.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: We do okay because, honestly, based off what I saw when I was there this summer, distribution for outside you might hit some outside liquor stores that you know and love you and everything, but as far as distribution man, it's going to be hard to get out of there.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: It's going to be like a whiskey deep thing You're just going to, it's just going to be from the store.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: You already see it with the wines and I'm not gonna say that I it's just like, but in my you know, the beer, the brewery is done, you know really well.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: And then you're good, you have wine barrels and beer barrels and all that you'll be able to do.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Plus it seems like they're just everybody's on board.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: So you won't, you're not going to have any kind of backlash or whatever.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: You might even have say-so in, like I really want to do a finished bourbon or whiskey in this and can you make that kind of wine?
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: And they're like oh, yeah, we can.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Or make this kind of beer, yeah, we can.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: But as far as how many people come in and what they do, it's just like they are the epitome of it gets pretty crazy over there.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I will say I do think, even with the lake and everything, we probably are still going to end up being in time, not initially, but in time with the whiskeys.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: It's probably going to be a five market distillery, is my guess.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: That's about that's probably going to be a five-market distillery is my guess.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: That's probably going to be about the sweet spot.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: And when I say five-market, it doesn't mean the entirety of five states.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: It means five really good markets within probably five separate states or a couple markets in one state.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I'm putting in you've already had Ann on your podcast for if you have ghosts and you need to talk to her, because I'm putting in for ohio to be one of those five states, so that right.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be fun.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: If it's one of the ohio's one of those five states, that means you might come up here and visit me that's true that's true and we could get in a lot of trouble up here I could well, you know, kim I could break them and keep them for a while.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: I just want to refer back to Kim's rule number two If you can't take it back to a lone car, you've got to take them home.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: I could see Ohio in particular.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I would say this, Jeff Given the number of home distillers and the passion for home distilling in Ohio in particular, I could see some of our weirder products actually doing pretty damn well in distribution in Ohio and I think I've got enough followers there that it wouldn't be a problem.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I think you do Plus you got us.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I mean you start putting that, we're supporting that, and then also, you know you got mashing.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I mean you have support for ohio and ohio is one of the largest uh whiskey markets there is.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Plus, they're actually taking their knowledge of whiskey and just applying it to all spirits.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: So I don't know how good that is, because now it seems like Ohio's like drinking five times more than it was five years ago.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: But we gamble and drink at a massive amount.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Train keeps rolling, brother, listen, neotemperance is a thing.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: They can dry up any other state, but don't dry up Ohio or Indiana.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: And marijuana is legal up here now, and so they took away our director from OHLQ.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: That really brought it back and they put him in charge of the marijuana.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: So this is going to be a wild state pretty soon.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Between gambling, drinking, drinking and smoking, they got it covered right now.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, the sports gambling was insane.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: The amount that that ohio ohio leads, it's just like per day.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: They're just like putting out these stats and I'm like that's insane.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, yep, anyways, all right, so let's get in a little bit of detail.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, so talk about if you have ghosts, you have everything.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: What are the best podcasts?
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Where you're talking about both ends of of this, both spirits aspects, the spirit industry, with the spiritual things happening?
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: What was like the best podcast you did where you're actually taking both of your worlds and blending it together?
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I?
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't know if I if I have one I can pick, like that, because there's been so many of them.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Some of them have been highly personal.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I will tell you that one of them that probably and he and I are not on the same spiritual wavelength, but the one that probably moved me the most was Whiskey Shaman Randall, down in Texas and his story with his cancer and finding God and and, uh, getting into the Septuagint and all that stuff, uh, that episode was pretty, pretty fucking special.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Um, I think the some of the stuff I did on, like the how do you see God thing, like, uh, having Kevin Rose, who's an evangelical and again, spiritually we're not the same uh, but we're brothers and I love him to death but having him here in the bedroom telling his thing, or even we had Randall and DJ Henderson on together, those were great.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: The ones that I really really like the most, though and I mentioned before we started doing the actual audio of this podcast that I do If you have Ghosts for myself, I figured out that I'm doing it for myself and I'm good with that.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: The ones that I like the most are the ones where either kim and I get a chance to work together and tell a story, or I like the ones where I'm actually doing the exposition um, because then I can.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Then I can be a little more theatric, I can be a little more creative, I can touch on some spiritual stuff, literature and stuff, or esoteric or occult stuff that might be a little difficult to carry on conversations with other people.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: I will tell you one of the issues with If you have Ghosts, you have Everything is.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: You would be surprised and part of this is because I'm picky you would be surprised how hard it is to get guests consistently for that show, and part of that is because I have a pretty tight bullshit detector when it comes to if I think you're lying to me, and I can tell you that on this computer right now there's about four episodes that will never see the light of day because I think you're full of.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Never see the light of day because I think you're full of shit.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: And most of the time I'll tell them if I think they're full of shit.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Actually, I think I've told all of them that that aren't getting released.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I think they're full of shit.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: It's not about.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: It's not about getting attention, it's not about going on as many podcasts as you can and telling the same tired story over and over again, especially not with it if you have ghosts, because despite the fact that Ghost is in the name, it's really a show.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: As much about cryptids or the 14, and more so about spirituality in terms of high magic and low magic, both folk magic and ceremonial magic, philosophy, theosophy, all those sort of things which I'm much more interested in most of the time Not always Most of the time I'm much more interested in those things, especially practical magic, than I am in.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Here's another ghost story.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, ghost stories are a dime a dozen.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: They exist, they're out there and I love them, don't get me wrong, and I'll do episodes on them if I find them compelling.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: But the practical magic in terms of, like folk magic and what I mean by that god, right, miracles are a god thing.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: But the things that you can affect, that might have scientific reasoning, that we just don't quite understand or never can really understand, the things that are unlikely but somehow do happen, that you seem to be able to have some effect on, that humanity has played with for millennia, that stuff really, really interests me very much so.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm, I'm, I'm all the part.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Honestly, the part about it all is that I know I have a certain talent within me, but I just wonder at this point, like if I just keep going with the way I am and I only use it when I feel I think I would say more safe or it's worth it, opposed to if you tried to.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Actually, it's like, it's's like there's such a a thing aspect of when I tried to start to develop it, when you're talking about healing people and making them understand that if you're a diabetic and your spleen stops working when you're 12 years old, there might have been a reason for that and that you might be.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: There might be something stopping it, or there might be, and they don't believe you.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: But then you help them.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: You have the permission through the universe to help them, universe to help them and then they come back at you when they're feeling better, or they won't, they'll avoid you because they're feeling better or they it's working, and then, all of a sudden, you find out about that and it's just so hurtful that you that, that they didn't want to tell you because they didn't want you to take credit, or they didn't want you to do this or you don't, and it happens because we we live in a society now in general in the western world, where those things are not appreciated in the way they should.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: There's no there.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: There is.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest, here there is no room and this goes beyond politics on either side.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: There is no room and this goes beyond politics on either side.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: There is no room in Western society polite Western society, for better or worse for any type of anything that cannot be scientifically dissected and explained, and even those who are in the magic, and all the proof you need of this is to jump on TikTok for five minutes and look at all the people who are claimed to be witches.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: And yet, listen, what are you doing?
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: You're doing a little bit of you doing a little tear over here, but you also.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: You got to have all the.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: You got to have all the piercings.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: You got to have all the weird hair.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: You got to buy all the dead shit.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Don't process the dead shit yourself.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Buy that stuff off eBay somewhere, because you're not being authentic.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: You have a stage show, you have an act.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: That's as close to miraculous as we can get is.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I've got 300,000 followers.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: I must really have something special about me.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: No, you don't.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: If you did, you'd put yourself out there and it would actually be integrated into who you are as a person and as your career, as part of your career, just like distilling is for me and and with your, with your, with your healing process.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Do you have people push back on it because they don't want you to have credit, because everything becomes about credit people?
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: are always raving, raving about.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: I just know, I know to be.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: People are always raving about.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I just want them to be feeling better.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I want that, whatever it is.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: And there's, you know, the reasons of why I can do it in my mind.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: If I explained it to me, it sounds like I'm insane, but it's like I know what it it is, but it makes no sense.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: There's no explanation for what I'm doing, but I understand it and it's so.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: I so when, when I don't all I want to do, when I help the people that I helped and I've helped probably 30, 40 people and every single time it's dead nuts on, but I'm not looking.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: I just want them to feel better, or I want them to be able to deal with what they're dealing with, because I can remove what's causing it.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Right, and when I explain it to them.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: But but then to come back and say somehow I want credit, I don't want credit, I just want that Let me know it's removed and I'm happy.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to you know what I mean.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, that's not on you, that's not what I'm saying.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that's on them.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: People are credit seeking for everything all the time, constantly, all the time and more than that, like there's, there's there would be a million explanations for what you do and how you do it, buried in dusty old texts that people don't really bother to read or understand anymore powwow texts and cunning man texts and things of that nature.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: But people would probably feel less comfortable if they knew what actually was motivating any of those things or causing them Like.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Does it matter as long as it works?
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: that's all that really matters.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fine, I can do it and it does work.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: But then I sit there, feel guilty, like you were talking about guilty.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: He felt a little guilty that you weren't doing the podcast.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: It's the same thing.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: I've almost.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: There's a guilt aspect of.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Well, there's one person that I helped and it was working, and then they, they pulled away and they didn't want anything to do with me because they thought that somehow, so I, to try and prove something to myself, I, everything that I did, I took away and they went and they went 100 percent back to feeling like total shit.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, I just took it, I didn't, I just stopped doing what I do and part of it is a connection with a human being, and I know this is not a whiskey podcast anymore, but we're talking about if you have ghosts if you have everything.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: So the spiritual and I think that's why we're drawn together a little bit, because you do sense we've talked about certain things.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I really felt that your connection to what you do and what you research and everything and your wife and what she does, because I understand, because when I was a kid I did a lot of tarot card readings.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand why I was able to do it.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: It was just it just basically, it wasn't all about the cards, it's about what the cards would tell me and then the feeling and the whole mutual thing and I could be right consistently and it kind of freaked me out back then because I was young and I so I stopped, stopped doing that.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: But getting into this once again, it's a connection with a spiritual thing that I had.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: You talk about gods, right, you talk about this God, that God, this God, my spiritual moment.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: When I was being taught, I had a vision and I saw that all gods, all of them, are part of it.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: There's not just one, they're all there, they were all there for me.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: It was like the vision I had.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: It was woke, it was clear as day.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: They all appeared to me, all of them, all of them.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: They were like it's the same God, appearing to different people based off of who they want to see.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: It's not Christianity, it's not Judaism, it's not Hinduism, it's not Buddhism, but it's still the same God as one, but appears as all.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: That was the moment that I and I actually physically had that thing.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: So you live your life completely and totally different.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: The fact that they're there, that there's something after, and when you know something's after, it's a whole different experience.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: So you have this experience and then you try to go out with it, but you get burned and then you're like, okay, so help the people around you.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: But then I sometimes feel guilty the fact that I could help more people.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, but some people don't want help, they don't believe it.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: I mean you offer it and they say no, you can't help people who don't want help.
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: Alan, this past summer I really gained a lot more understanding and respect for spirits and I guess you'd say supernatural, because I actually experienced it firsthand.
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: With my wife we went to Hawaii and she's Choctaw Indian and almost 90% and her sister is too, and they always had this thing about being drunk, spirits being drawn to them and things like that.
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: Well, we went out to the USS Arizona and I just happened to be filming and looking down to the sunken ship and Sherry was on the other side, just on the other side, and a spirit came up out of the water towards her and I mean literally just scared her because she didn't expect it and came right at her.
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: She came running over to me, right behind me as I was filming, shaking, scared and all that and telling me about it.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden and I got it on film and everything all of a sudden the water.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: I mean it was cold as could be and all of a sudden the water just started rippling right across where I was filming, down into it.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden, this rush of air pressure.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: It was like nothing I've ever felt before in my life and it was like it just I could almost just see like I missed or something.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: But that air pressure and everything come right up off of that water straight like straight through me, like it was coming straight to her, and she felt it.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: And at the same time as I was jumping back too, she saw it and felt it too and it was just I went like the rest of the day.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: I called Jeff later that day.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what happened for us all is with multiple people.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: So you've been around it, Alan, right.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: At the same time we also, you know, realizing that there was over a thousand people that went down with that ship and spirits and all that were within that ship and it wasn't like and it's like she was saying it wasn't like it was trying to hurt her or anything.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: She said it felt more like it was just wanting them to know that they were there, that it was just wanting them to know that they were there, that it was there Absolutely.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: It was just enlightening.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: So, alan, what I found is that the movies always go towards the bad experiences right, the bad experiences, right, they don't tell, they're not telling the enlightening.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: But at almost every single thing that I've been involved with isn't anything like the movies.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: It's mostly enlightening, but at the same time, when I dealt with something very, very negative, it's nothing like it at all.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: You know, it's almost like what they portray is just almost like when you're saying bullshit.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: It's almost like most of the stuff that's been portrayed in the movies is almost like bullshit.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Because you know, you know the whole exorcism thing played over, over and over and that it's all evil and it's all this.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: But when you, when you usually come across something that's negative or evil, it's usually not an aggressive thing, I find it just, in some cases, just runs away of the spiritual aspects, of higher ceremonial magic or lower folk magic, the paranormal 14, et cetera.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Even in mainstream media, anything that really gets into like oh, what's causing this thing?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Or what's you know, any analytical thing, like very rarely are you ever going to come across anything that really has any real substance to it, and there's only just a very few things that come to mind.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: And so Ridley Scott's Prometheus and Covenant and the most recent Alien movie.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: They've got some things in there that are pretty interesting, but you really have to be up on some of the Gnostic stuff and also on some of the Edward Kelly stuff.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Anything Philip K Dick ever did is imbued with high magic, and anything that he inspired the Matrix.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: The guys that came up with the Matrix should just write the Philip K Dick estate a giant fucking check, because all they did was rip Philip K Dick off completely.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: But even the humor in things too ripped Philip K Dick off completely, but even the humor in things too.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: So another great example would be if you've not watched it in many years and you have to go back to the original one, and especially the stuff that Peo was really involved in, but go back to the Smurfs.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff in the Smurfs.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: There's a ton of stuff, a ton of it.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, especially you go back to that, the, the animated, uh, uh magic flute.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: There's a, there's so much in there, um, with alchemy and and cunning folks and uh, all that stuff.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: The other thing that I get really aggravated about with modern day people and I run into this on the podcast sometimes and I like, I like dann, I like Joe Rogan as much as the next blue-collar guy does.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong, but I'm so fucking tired of hearing this thing about how psychedelics are the way into the spirit realm.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: And, yes, just like alcohol, yes, there is an effect there.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: It's not the only fucking way and it's not the only way that humanity has done it throughout time.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: I call it falling into a pothole.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: That's what it is.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: If you're a pothead, you're gonna fall into a pothole eventually.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: Right, they're not wrong with smoking weed either, but when that becomes the only focus of how we can we can communicate with these things, I have no interest.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: Um, it's diversionary, it's, it's abusive.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: In the same way that if I told you as a distiller, like the only way you can find God is to drink spirits, right, there is a spiritual aspect to drinking spirits, or writing stories.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: You're saying well, the only way to find God is distill your own spirit and then drink it, and then you can find.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: God, yes, too much yeah exactly Well magic is everywhere, it's a spirituality is everywhere.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: So I got to tell you guys this, a little piece of philosophy and these philosophies that I've developed over the years, a lot of the stuff I kept back from people for a long time until I got the courage to write the first book, and now I'm doing the distillers almanac yearly with things I learned when I was growing up, things I learn every year, little things that are magic, that you don't think of.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: So when I get in in a place and I told a very dear friend this the other day she lost her job with a major distilling company in a very shitty way and she needed someone to talk to.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: And I was kind of walking her through some things and trying to give her some advice because she needed to talk to somebody, and so I told her a few things that I repeat in my head from time to time just to remember things right, uh, or just for positive affirmation or whatever, which sounds like a hippie bullshit sort of thing, but things that really have meaning to them.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: So one thing, so a real simple piece of magic that people, people in everyday life can use every single day, is literally to say the following words.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: I do it every morning when I walk out the door on my way to work.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I'm on the earth.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: The earth is not on me, right?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: It's not on you, you're on it.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Take advantage of that.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: And the other one is, if I am in a, in a mood or something, if I even get two seconds to walk outside and look somewhere and you can do this even if you're in the city you'll find somewhere like this.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Anywhere you ever go, no matter how urban, blighted it is, there will always be some little corner where the concrete is cracked.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: There's a few little shrubs or trees growing up that nobody planted.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: They came up on their own.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: There's briars and shit in there, and amongst that little hedgerow there will be any number of useful plants.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe you do know the uses of them, maybe you don't know the uses of them.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: There will be any number of animals trying to escape the suburban sprawl, as it were, at that point in time during the day, and those trees are subject and witness to all of the things that we do that we think no one sees, and so I always think to myself the hedges have secrets.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: All the magic of the world is in those places so I look at the world through a logical way.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: So if you're a spirit and we are spiritual and we actually do become part of the universe when we go in and we have a consciousness that can go anywhere, any place and do anything, ok.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: So I always felt that if you could do that, the only way that you end up here inside a body with the amount of pain that's put on it is this is a prison planet.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: This is where, when you've been bad, you're, you're basically your jail cell is your body, and then all the things that control your body is how serious your sentence is.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: I always look at it like, let's just say, a baby's being birthed and then all of a sudden it passes away and there's a ton of pain for the people around, but the baby passes away.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: I look at it that the baby just got a one-nighter.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: It was just a one-nighter, was on the earth and whatever, and got released back its soul, whatever.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: It's just different ways of looking at it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I really believe if you're put into this, you're here to learn a lesson while you're there and everybody's got different lessons to learn, like the amount that you know, some people that get in a car crash and they're a ton of pain.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: You know some people whose bodies fail them.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: You got all different types of things that happen right.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: So I've always looked at it that way.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: So when I wake up in the morning, I just basically go that I know the sun's coming up and it's going to go down and the goal is is just to be the nicest, happiest person I can be, no matter what happens.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Now, it doesn't always work, trust me, but it's my goal on a day, because while we're here, we all try and stay here so hard, right, like your goal is survival.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: You know, every single second of every day you're trying to survive.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: You're trying, not, you don't.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: You don't jump in the water and drown, you don't.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: If you can't swim or whatever, you don't do stuff to get off the planet.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, if you, it would be such.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: The greatest joke on us all is if, when you do leave the planet, you're like, why the hell was I trying to stay there for so long?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: But most people are like there's nothing else.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: But you look at that and that's almost kind of how I look at it.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: I certainly think that there and this goes into more that higher magic sort of thing but there are aspects of this place that is definitely a soul school.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: We are a sublunar species and everything that we do is dictated to some degree by the moon.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: We are spiritual, but the other part of that and this is where I'll tie it back into distillation, so that we can also touch on a little bit of that too but spirit is a thing that people don't understand spirit and soul and they get them confused quite often.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: So your soul is your consciousness, your soul is your mind.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: And when I say mind and consciousness, I don't mean mind and consciousness the way that most people think of it.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: Think of it as the thing that is a receptor for a program that was laid out long before you ever got here.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: And it's not fate, it's what you pick up from, what is coming from.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: Whatever the ultimate fount of this emanation of this world is, that continues to play out regardless of what happens to you.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Say you get paralyzed or you're brain dead, right, your consciousness is playing that out.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: It still exists.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: It is a separate thing from you.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: That is your soul.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Your spirit is your vital principle.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Your spirit is the animating principle of the body, uh, what's called the vitus, um, and that is a thing, a concept that has been been explored very heavily for a very, very, very long time in humanity, but it's the thing that makes all the physical parts actually have animation and have life to them.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Uh, the spirit of the vitus is the, the quintessence of what and who you are here in this lifetime Currently.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: Uh, one of the goals I think that humanity is supposed to have or should have, uh, to be a decent person.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I think you certainly should look at life this way, and if you can't look at life this way, I might argue that you're probably a psychopath.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: But one of your goals here should be to build or create or contribute beautiful and significant in their own way, things that help you and your own people, and that can include things like alchemy and creating spirits.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Uh, we use that word spirit because we're capturing the quintessence of something that once was here, that is no longer here but is trapped within the environment.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Uh, tying that back in the streets.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: That's why I always name things after people whose story didn't get told.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: It's a form of positive necromancy.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: You're bringing people back from the dead who didn't get their due diligence in life.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: And when you put that into a spirit, and you put that intention into a spirit, and people drink that spirit and they read the story, there's something they can connect with on a very primal way, what some cultures, like in Africa, for example, or even amongst Native Americans, might call ancestor worship.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be directly related to somebody for it to be ancestor worship, but that spirit is entering you, just like a spirit can enter you right, and it's causing a physiological change.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: And so you're hoping that that physiological change, as an alchemist, when you're creating these things, is for the positive and that it helps people and it's something that is beautiful and creative and not used or just disabused in the wrong way and I've certainly been guilty of that in the past myself.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: Um, but those are.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: Those are sort of some of the foundational philosophies of what I do and what I'm trying to do, and it's very hard to it's.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: It's taking me a long time to figure out ways to express that that makes sense to other people, but that's sort of the short path to it.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: I agree what you said is exactly taking that one step.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: But what I would where I was going initially about where your spirit is.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Just imagine if a tree, when you were bringing up the trees, right, and people are looking and watching, and so if you're really bad in spiritual, well, your spirit gets stuck into a tree.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: So not only are you on the earth for 80, 100 years, but you're basically stuck in a position and you can't do anything except watch.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: You get to get rained on, frozen, you, whatever you go through the seasons, but all all the like you said, all that tree can do is watch for a long time.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Right, it's just like I always thought of it that way, exactly how you were saying are they watching?
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Well, if it's a spirit entrapped, that was, that could be another form of worse punishment than being a human being.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: Or it might only seem worse to us.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: From our vantage point it might actually be better.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: You're still with nature.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: The physiology is obviously different, but certainly trees would seem to be much more useful to the other things on earth humans than what humans typically would be to any other species.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: I would say well, that's true, except for the fact I just imagine anytime I'm kept and forced to stay in one place for any period of time, it's just pure torture.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: So so I like to keep moving.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: So for me, you stick me in that, that would you know, that'd be pretty rough.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: Right, right, I don't, I don't know man, you put me next to put me next to a little stream, and yeah, I say that.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: And then I got COVID and I had to sit around for three weeks not doing anything.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: I almost lost my mind.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're doing all kinds of stuff.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: You're being you're being sexually reproductive in a cycle.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: You're, uh, you're creating children every year.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: You're uh, you're sheltering animals.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: You're creating sustenance.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: You're part of an ecological system.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: Uh, you get turned into badass mushrooms after you die.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it might not be too bad it might be okay.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: All right, I'll give you that.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we've been on for a long time.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Um, we, you talked about, you know, the distilling aspect, so and then you're gonna, you're working on some.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: So you got the stuff up right now the stills are all running right.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: I mean you got everything and it took you a little bit to get that to that point all of them going because you did some really unique things to your stills.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have different ways?
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: yeah, it was sort of twofold sort of thing.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: Um, first of all is, uh, well, you know, when you're building the distillery in the middle of nowhere and I learned this at spirits of french lick and also at a lot of other places I've consulted for you know, you're you're dealing with your local contractors, and your local contractors have never built a distillery before, so they're not, uh, they don't know necessarily what you need done, they don't necessarily know the workflow, and so you've got to get to know those guys and, uh, you know, hope that they understand you and hope they understand what your process is.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: And then the other part of it is that old homestead is, to my knowledge we are the largest all electric distillery in the United States.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: So everything there is electric element in uh jackets.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: So 500 gallons, still two, 250 gallons, stills, 500 gallon cooker, all electric.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: Um, that's a lot of three phase power, um, you know, and that's that's a lot of electrical engineering.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: And we just so happen to luck out and we have an electrician that works with us who is a home distiller and a great guy to boot.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: But it did take us a little while to figure out what we needed, as far as the electricity went, to be able to get everything online.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: So from July until actually really until January, from July until January it was just the one 250-gallon pot with a double thumper and we made several thousand gallons.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: I mean that still has been run over 160 times since July.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: If that puts that in perspective for you, I don't know if you ever tried to make a few thousand gallons of liquor 25 gallons at a time, but it is a feat for sure and a lot of that was done without any other infrastructure really in place.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: You know, just us mashing into barrels, having a single pump, et cetera.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: So everything is kind of we were distilling in the middle of a massive construction zone and we still are to some degree, because it's a slow burn and a slow build to get everything into place.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: But yes, now all the stills are online and so now we get to really explore.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: What we were really focused on previously was getting all the sunshine and the Black Forest Spirit stuff going.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: So sunshine is basically anything that's going to have sunflowers in it, which is a tribute to my brother, mike Stallings St Sparrow as we call him, moonshine Mike Stallings who distilled with sunflowers a lot, and so I kind of took that and took it and put my own spin on it and did a lot of malting and roasting and we came up with several products there, as well as Newton Stewart, which is a traditional corn-based moonshine.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: We call these all sunshines, because moonshine is an illicit product made by lie of the moon.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: Sunshine is a legal product that's made during a lie of the day and using sunflowers, which is pretty magical in and of itself.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Uh, we made a lot of, um, really really interesting liqueurs.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: So there's sort of two lines to that.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: There's a, there's a line that is the very sweet kind of almost syrupy sort of stuff, uh, which is based on sunshine and that's going to be like your old apothecary flavors like cinnamon and root beer and butterscotch and all that sort of thing.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: But then there's also, yes, lemon as well.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: There's also this sort of higher end, uh, liqueur stuff that we're doing that's not quite as sweet, and so that's's part of the Black Forest line, and so that's going to be things like the Nine Herb Charm, which is based on an old English poem, based on Woden, which is a version of Odin, of Norse Odin, and the nine charms that represent the nine different realms.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like chartreuse.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: We've got a peach brandy cordial.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: We're going to have a cherry brandy cordial.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, I have a heritage chocolate cordial, which is really cool.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: So this heritage chocolate is actually made, uh, in the style of colonial era chocolates, uh.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: So I did a lot of those things, got that out of the way and now we're into whiskey production on top of it.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: So every day right now we are currently mashing in one of the sunshines and we're mashing in a whiskey, and then we're running typically all three stills.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: So we're typically running a 500-gallon stripping.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: Still.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: We're running a 250-gallon doubling still with the offset gin basket and column.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not running a column on that very often right now.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: And then we're running the pot with the double thumper and we're able to manipulate a lot of different things.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: It's all open-top fermentation.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: We're able to manipulate a lot of different things.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: It's all open top fermentation.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: I really want as much of the local microbiome as what I can get.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: We're running two yeast strains right now, but we have others that we'll introduce.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: They're all self-propagated.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: We're not using any commercial yeast whatsoever.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: So we're running my Kvike strain and we're also running the Newton Stewart strain that I gathered from one of the old towns.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: It's now underwater at patoka lake and, uh, with the whiskeys we're able to do really cool things.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: So we're focusing on american whiskey because that's something that people should be proud of.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: Right, it has america in the name.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: Right, that should be a thing.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: It's made in america, it's american whiskey.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: It is what it is.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to bourbon.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: This is much more in line with the way that I would make apple brandy.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: So it's barreled at a little higher proof.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: It still isn't a new charred oak barrel.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: It still meets all the other requirements almost for being a bourbon or a rye, but it's not a bourbon.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: But what we're able to do is we will do some of those fermentations using kvike yeast and going into stainless steel open top fermenters, some of them using newton stewart yeast, and going into our barrel fermenters made out of wood.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: Uh, open top on both of them and then we distill in three different ways for every mash bill.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: So yeah, your fermenters, which you said stainless steel.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: How many gallon?
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: 500.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: How many gallon on the wood?
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: So there are 53 and 62 gallon barrels, so typically 250 gallons is what we'll.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: So you're doing actual barrels with the wood?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: Yep, okay.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Yep, and there's a rationale behind that too.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: And the rationale behind that is that Cypress is cool, but it is a pain in the ass to keep together and to keep clean.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: It costs a lot of money.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: Whiskey barrels are cheap.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: If something goes wrong, you just put a new one in there.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: It ain't no big deal, right?
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: I get why.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: But you have the stainless steel fermenters up.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: Why so?
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: And then, but you have the stainless steel fermenters up, Because you know, when I was there the last time, like you said, you were running the one still and you were pretty much using everything and anything to ferment.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: It was pretty cool Right, yeah, yeah, but I get it so that's going and a 500-gallon fermenter.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: So what is your?
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: Do you have?
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: Where's your blending tanks?
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: How big are those?
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: So right now I've got two 500 blending tanks, uh, and then various other sizes, you know, 50 gallons stuff like that, just depending smaller stuff, yep, yep.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: And then there is a, uh, a fourth still as well.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: Actually there's five, total six, but there's one at the winery we haven't hooked up yet, uh.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: So there's a little absence still, which is a little 17-gallon.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: But you're starting with high-proof alcohol to begin with.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: You basically get back out what you put into it.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: So if I put 17 gallons in there, I'm going to get 17 gallons of absinthe back out, or pretty damn close to it.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: One way, shape the other, by the time you proofing everything.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Are you distilling that currently, or is that?
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: not yet.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: Yep, we've been distilling it.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: It'll be there when we open up.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: So there will be two varieties of absinthe essential or first off and then there'll be a third variety introduced later, maybe a fourth variety, we'll see.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: We will have a pretty extensive absinthe program on a small scale, but we're going to really take you through what absinthe can be in the United States in a way that nobody else ever really has.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's some great absinthe out there and I love what Ted Brough does, but Ted focuses on the traditional absinthe and so what we're doing is we're taking that, as I said, sort of the motto there at Old Homestead is pushing the envelope while respecting tradition.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: So you know, we're taking the traditional things and we're putting our spin on them, we're putting a folk spin on them, we're putting a home distiller spin on them, very much so.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: That was one thing that I enjoyed when we went down to New Orleans bourbon festival last year.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 4: When we went down to New Orleans bourbon festival last year, when we went down to Bourbon Street, me and Jeff went down to the Absinthe Bar down there, yeah, we did a couple of tastings of some different absinthes but Alan, they lit that shit on fire yeah, they did the Bohemian thing.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: Honestly, I don't know how you can't.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think you should just have a special night during the summer where you just light the shit out of it, and then all the other times you don't.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: Because, honestly, that that that sells, that that's a marketing play that sells a living crap out of it.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 4: It is, and plus that was another thing there was almost completely dark in there in in that absent bar.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: it was like that high, that high off the glass.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: I mean that girl, that girl went.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, even for myself, I I don't mind the bohemian bohemian process.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: I understand it's not pure or whatever, but I personally like the sugar.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: Like, if you're going to put a sugar cube dropped in there, I like shit burnt.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: So you do that.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: I like that flavor that it adds to the licorice.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: But I mean for me, are yours going to be mostly anise?
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Are you going to do cinnamon ones?
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: Are you going to do other ones?
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: Are you going to do other ones?
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: Are you just going to experiment?
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: The hell out of it.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: So they're all based on things I've done in the past at home when I was a home distiller.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: So there will be a very traditional absinthe, there will be a purple absinthe that is much more earthy, there will be a yellow absinthe that has a lot of flowers in it, um, and things of that nature.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: And as far as drinking goes and uh, this might come as a surprise, just like me not just being a straight double pot still guy, but um, had to do certain things a certain way at french lick because we were trying to, we're trying to, I was trying to present something very specific with that.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: The truth of the matter is I'm pretty fucking agnostic.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: As far as, however, somebody wants to drink their alcohol, if they want to light their absinthe on fire, fucking have at it.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: I don't care.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: Just let me tell you the story first and explain to you what it is you know, and then you know, then go from there.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: That's fine, I don't have any.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: Some of that stuff's not necessarily for me.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: You know, like, obviously, the sunshine stuff that we're doing, the more syrupy type stuff, is not, um, that is not my, that's not my wheelhouse, but you know, I will say this.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: I could say you make it really well.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: I got to taste some of it and you might not.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: It's not your wheelhouse of what you drink, but it's.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: It's certainly what sells, but there's this.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: Are you doing that?
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: oh, yeah, yeah, the purple absinthe?
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, or is that the black?
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: That's the black one I sent you yeah, are you gonna do black?
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: Probably at some point in time um, maybe around halloween, we might do a little limited release of that.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: We might also do that as a limited release.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: When we have, we might do like a paranormal conference or something like that, sometime in the winter time, so maybe we can coincide the release of the painting, because I finally got the wrist to the point.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: At last weekend I called the painting up again because I hadn't really.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: After I broke my wrist, I it was like there's a lot of fucked up shit that was going on and it finally fell.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: So I did a little bit on it and it was working.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: So I figured out probably I should be able to finish by the summertime.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Awesome and awesome.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you, you've got to make like uh, uh, let's see a 30 by 60 space in your house to hang it, because it's going to come to you and then every day you'll just be able to look at yourself no, I'll hang that in jolie's office she'll be all about it right next to her sasquatch poster.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: Um, real quick, though.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: Jumping back to the whiskey part of it, though, too, is uh, so you know, we're using those two different yeast strains of two different types of fermenters, but then I have three different methods of distillation for each mash bill, for every mash bill.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: So, uh, I can do double thumper and pot, I can do double pot, still distillation, or I can do pot and column, and, uh, it's going to get three very different, very unique profiles that go into their own separate barrels, which then can be chosen as single barrels or be blended together.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: And there's all kinds of little home distiller's tricks that go along with that adding some sweet corn to a thumper on a corn-based product, or adding some rye to a thumper, or various other things like that.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of really interesting things that we can do, and some of these sunshines, I think, are going to surprise people, uh, even people who are not interested in moonshine.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: This, this, this is not moonshine.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: It's an entirely different thing.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: It's much more along the lines of home distilled things.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: Um, some of the flavors are not the, not the post distillation flavored stuff.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: But some of the flavors we actually can create during distillation using different processes and different ingredients, I think are really going to blow people's minds.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: The sunflower thing has its own almost mezcal sort of a flavor to it, Um, but we also played around with a thing that we call rise and shine, which is a rye, a malted rye base.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: Of course it's still got sugar added to it because it is a shine.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: But then we have different variations.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: So one of them is I went and collected hickory bark from my woods and toasted that like you'd make hickory syrup and put that into the thumpers, and that has a unique thing.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: One of them we threw some cacao nibs and we did a shit ton of different citrus into the thumpers, and that has a unique thing.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: One of them we threw some cacao nibs and we did a shit ton of different citrus into the thump barrels.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: Another one we did jasmine and chamomile into uh, and so they're.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: Those are very unique spirits that have gone into barrels.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: They are getting some barrel maturation, uh, short term.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: Um, trying to think of some of the other really weird ones that we did, there's been several that we did over the summertime.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: There's one we call Wycliffe Bell, wycliffe Bell, sort of a tribute to uh, to Welsh style.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, something like Irish poaching, but it'd be a Welsh style.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: So it's a Pete smoked oats.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: Um with uh.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: Pete smoked apples, apples, and then that's Pete from, so it's coming from.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: Ireland is where it's coming from.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: You're pulling it from Yep and that's going into a number three char barrel, which is something I never do.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: So you got to get the, the Pete that they're using at Thornton.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: There you got to get some Illinois Pete.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: No, I got it.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: We got Indiana Pete.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: You got Indiana Pete.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: You don't like?
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: yeah, that's I do like it.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: I do like I didn't want it for that product, though, so we will use it for other things, but yes, uh, that's what I use it on the whiskey witch at spirits of french lick was indiana pete.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, so, um, but yeah, that'll be.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: That'll be something in the future that we used as well.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: Uh, we're making some single malt.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, I'll be starting on that probably, uh, in the next few weeks.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: Here, that's actually an alder-smoked malt, which is pretty cool, and there's some beach-smoked stuff too.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: We'll be making a malted rye whiskey, but it won't be.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: It'll be 100% malted rye, but it'll probably be a base malted rye and then a modified malted rye on top of it.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and those will all go through the same kind of variations.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: We'll run those through all three systems and we'll run them on both different yeasts right, wow what people don't know is.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: I cannot wait it's gonna be fun well, it going to be fun.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: You'll have some stuff for me to sample when I'm there, right oh, yeah, absolutely, um absolutely I will tell you that I do.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: Did you know when you do get into scotch and you're talking about malt, you know, single malt, whatever the pot still still to this day they say, is the way to do it.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it's not something that converts to the column still, the column still, it's like it's pot still.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: I mean the definition is pot still.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: Yes well and there's a lot of American single malts that are being made on column stills and it's just like it's almost like a slap in the face.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: This is approach too, approach to from again.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: There's the, the traditional, but pushing the envelope, uh, pushing the boundaries.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: So it is pot still, um.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: But the other part of that is obviously it's alder or beechwood smoked, which is pretty weird.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: But now alder, and beech alder in particular, was uh sacred to the Gauls, the Vikings, et cetera.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: We're using Kvike yeast for that, and it's my strains of Kvike because it's multiple strains.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: But one thing that we do quite a bit differently there's a few distilleries that do this in the US, and I did this at French Lick too, but none of it's been released yet.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: So I don't larder and sparge.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: All the grain goes in, all of it goes in.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: I want all that brand flavor, I want all that earthiness.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: That's that's the american style of doing things and that's what we're going to do, 100 million percent and it makes total sense.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: We talked about this from the start when I first met you.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: It's like why the hell would anybody outside right now, outside of Kentucky, try and make anything that Kentucky's producing?
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: It makes no freaking sense.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: They produce so much of it.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: They can produce stuff that's aged that tastes like caramel, that tastes like butter, whatever that's aged that tastes like caramel.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: They taste butter, what double whatever?
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: So you've always made something that's more towards you pull out.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: You're pulling out the grains.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: You can taste the wheat, or you could taste the corn, but also your tape.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: You're pulling out a fruity note based off of your yeasts, and so I I, the first time we were podcasting, I think you I did earn a little respect in the fact that I said you're making Indiana bourbon and whiskey.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: Because that's what?
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: Why would you try and make Kentucky?
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: It's like enough if it's been made.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: If I want to go have Kentucky whiskey, you can go and get it off of like 50, but you can't get Indiana tasting bourbons off the shelf.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: Go ahead.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 4: I just want to know who told you you were gaining respect.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: Well and beyond that now, with this, this isn't even Indiana-style stuff, this is Black Forest stuff, it's one million percent.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: And I say that as not only carrying on the heritage of the people who distilled here, you know, a hundred years ago, but also as the progenitor of a style of distillation in a region of Indiana that is soon to include three distilleries between Spirits of French Lick, spirits of French Lick Actually four now Spirits of French Lick, old Homestead, spring Mill, and a good friend of mine who's opening a distillery over in Tell City, another friend who's opening one up in Jackson County, just north of here.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: So it has become a thing, it is a legitimate thing now, and so that is on me to continue to tell that story.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: You don't include the other one.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: They're not part of the Black Forest, so they're just outside of.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: They're closer to louisville because, so they're outside of the forest, okay and it's also a different.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: It's also a different uh branch of germans.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's and it's also more of a they're more of a farm type distillery than what you're talking about.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're not, they're not traditionally they're basically within their own realm.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're definitely, uh, and nothing wrong with what they're doing.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: They're just not.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: They're not part of the black forest whatsoever, right, and that's not anything against anybody else from anywhere else in Indiana.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: Just, uh, listen, I am very particular about the black forest, two regions, the black forest, and in switzerland county, that's, that's, that's my indiana.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: That very much so.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: Um, but another example, and this will kind of tie everything together for you guys, I think and it'd probably be a good place to wrap up, because I gotta pee really bad um, so you know, if you have ghosts, you have everything.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: And so I've always done this, like I said, the positive necromancy, et cetera, and I've always said even when I was at Spirits of French Lake, I was very honest about this I have saved my not only my best recipes and my best ideas for a place that could truly be home to them, which is what Old Homestead is, but also a place where they belonged, also a place where they belonged.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: And so I've never, ever, ever and you guys know this leaned into my moonshine heritage in any way, shape or form anywhere until now, ever, and I've never named anything.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: Do what.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: You went to a place that accepted all aspects of distilling that's why you're there and they built you a goddamned distillery.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, what more can you ask for?
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: I also never um, you know I'm part of.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: This is a tribute to mike stallings as well, who also was from indiana, by the way, if you guys didn't know that he was from shoals.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: Um, but, uh, I never used any of my personal ghosts.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: I always used, you know, because I'm a historian of southern Indiana in particular, more so than I am my own family genealogy or anything like that.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: But the product that we're making right now is called WP Wilson and that's my grandfather's name.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: William Penn Wilson, to my daughter is named after grandfather's name.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: William Penn Wilson to my daughter is named after he actually died the same day that my daughter was born.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: So now I've introduced one of my own ghosts into this thing, and when I say this, I can say this with a straight face and not be lying, which is something that very few distillers in the moonshine world or the legal distilling world can say.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: It is an actual heritage, fucking recipe that I have known my entire life and been around my entire life, and it is maybe not made on the same type of equipment et cetera that he would have made it on, but it is made appropriately enough that he'd have walked over, patted me on the back and said that I was doing a damn good job, that he'd have walked over and patted me on the back and said that I was doing a damn good job.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: So that's a full circle thing for me to get to name a whiskey after my grandfather, who was not an outlaw moonshiner in terms of the way that people think of that nowadays.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: He was a fucking character and he was hilarious and he was just a hell of a guy and had a hell of a cool life and he never did anything outstanding.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: Because he didn't have to, because he took care of his family and he did what he had to do for a living, and so to be able to name something after somebody like that is a real honor, truthfully.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 4: Do you talk to Michael's?
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: wife still Stallings.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: Do what?
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: Do you still talk to his wife?
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: stop, michael oh, yeah, yeah, I still talk to sandra, okay, yeah, yeah, because that was.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I knew you at the time and but I also was friends with him because of just whatever, and watch that.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: That was a horrible time.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: There's not much anybody could do.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: He tried and it was just quick.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: It was pretty quick and fast once it happened.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: He has a place in our distillery 1 million percent.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: We have his 50-gallon still, named Sondra, on display right there in the distillery along with the map that he drew me when he gave me the still.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: That's all set up where everybody can see it.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: We'll use it for classes during the summertime outside.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: From time to time.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: We also have I have my seven-gallon that he built me.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: It's on display in the tasting room now.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: So Mike will always be a huge part of the distillery, without a doubt, and happy to tell his story, because he never got a chance to really tell his story the way that he should have.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: Not at all.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: But I mean, and he was like at the beginning of what I was doing and I didn't realize your connection until until the end, when you were, because after it was over, you, you guys, have shown so some, so much support for what what her sandra, right sandra yes, like yeah, it was just not a.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's no doubt, it's just like my cousin.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: It was just a, it happened and there's nothing anybody could do.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: And he tried and it was just over.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: Mike was a huge inspiration and a very, very, very dear friend, a brother.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: I'm honored that he chose me to give his still to, and that's why we call him St Stallings.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: And so there are people that have these.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: These are little pendants, little magical items that are for St Stallings, the patron saint of heathen distillers, and they're for people who spend their time actually understanding what this art is all about.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: So I owe some to a few other people still yet and they will get them, and other people can earn them over time, but it's something that has to be earned.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: I totally get that.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, he knew what he was doing and and he was a damn from.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: You could tell from posts he was a good musician he's a very good musician absolutely.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: I mean absolutely.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: There was many times he was playing right from his hospital bed.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: There's a bonus hidden episode.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: I'll throw this out there real quick for people that may have missed it.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: There is actually a bonus hidden episode of If you have Ghosts.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: You have Everything that you can only find on the One Piece at a Time Distilling Institute on YouTube, because you cannot upload an episode of music to most podcasts.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: But I went through all the publicly available or privately available live recordings, cell phone recordings, et cetera, that Mike did Not the ones he did in the hospital.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: There's an actual album of those that Sondra has for sale.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: But I went through and I took.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: I took the audio, cleaned it up.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I would add a little piece of music here and there to it, but there is an entire unreleased uh, michael stalling's live album episode of if you have ghosts.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: You have everything on youtube okay, there you go.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: Everybody go check that one out.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: Alan has to go because he has to go to the bathroom.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: I'll change my tampon.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: Let's end this on the regular one.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Speaking of weird things with YouTube, right now I'm in a dispute because my guy, Steve-O, who did the cover song for Alabama, all of a sudden RKO Records or whatever that owns the Alabama song with the Doors decided that that was theirs.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: So they started hitting up all my podcasts that he did the cover and it's a cover song of the Alabama song from 1923 done by a german artist, and somehow they're like saying that they have the right to the cover song of the cover song.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: Right, I have a dispute so I can't play it at the end, so we're just gonna end it.
• 1:43:46
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• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: X.
• 1:43:55
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• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: Good bourbon equals good times with good friends, and that's what we're all about.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 4: And remember to not drink and drive, drink responsibly and live your life uncut and unfiltered, and go buy my damn 2025 almanac from thealchemistcabinetcom.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: If you're at all interested in folklore, magic, distillation principles, agricultural principles, etc.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: The Almanac is available.
• 1:44:40
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• 1:44:41
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• 1:44:43
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• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: So please buy that.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: That is the thing that I believe will be my lasting legacy.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: Alright, thanks, alan.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: Alan really do appreciate it.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: That is the thing that I believe will be my lasting legacy.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 4: All right, Thanks Alan.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 4: Thanks Alan, Really do appreciate every time you come on here, man.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, love you guys.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: Good to see you, brother, Love you too brother, you too.