Latest / GowayPro Travel Tales / Nordic by Nature: Denmark, Finland, Norway & Sweden

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Nordic by Nature: Denmark, Finland, Norway & Sweden · GowayPro Travel Tales

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Nordics, where spectacular landscapes, innovative cities and rich traditions come together.
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  From Denmark and Sweden to Norway and Finland, discover dramatic fjords, arctic adventures, captivating culture and a passion for sustainable living.
• 0:16
  Journey beyond the capitals and uncover a region filled with unforgettable travel experiences and surprises.
• 0:23
  Hey there everyone, I'm Don, Professor Goay, and welcome to the GoayPro Travel Tale Podcast.
• 0:37
  and gravel off.
• 0:41
  Hello everyone, welcome to the Go Way Pro Travel Tales podcast.
• 0:45
  Today we are talking all things Nordic and I will clarify what that means.
• 0:50
  actually I won't clarify that.
• 0:52
  Our guest will or one of our guests will clarify that uh and I will introduce our first guest and no offense, Corey.
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  Corey's our second guest.
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  He's not quite as important as Christina.
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  So Christina Koons who is here to represent or who is representing
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  the Nordics.
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  So Christina, can you please clarify to our listening audience what the Nordics entail, i.e.
• 1:12
  what countries are wrapped up into that terminology?
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  For sure.
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  So this is a sustainable tourism cooperation involving in its larger capacity all seven Nordic countries, which is Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, Greenland, Iceland, Norway,
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  and Sweden.
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  But for the purpose of our chat today, we're just going to be focusing on the four countries of Denmark, Finland, Norway, and Sweden.
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  So it's all focused on sustainable travel to the entire region.
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  And I'm excited to to be here and chat about it more.
• 1:38
  Excellent, so thank you for that clarification.
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  And again, to our equally important second guest, for those, lot of you out there may know his voice and or his face if you're watching this video version of podcast, Corey Payton,
• 1:51
  who is uh our account manager based in sunny Los Angeles.
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  How are you doing today, Corey?
• 1:58
  Great.
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  Absolutely great.
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  Fantastic.
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  Coming you from West Hollywood, California.
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  Nice and warm.
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  I bet that's actually nice here in Toronto as well today.
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  Christina didn't ask where are you based at the moment?
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  I'm in New Jersey, so probably similar to weather.
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  Yeah.
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  Beautiful still summer like day over here.
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  is a very nice day on the east side of the continent and Corey is in LA so it's generally speaking pretty sunny in LA most of the time.
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  And why am I here?
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  Why am I here?
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  Because I did my significant birthday trip to Sweden and Norway, made it a highlight of my birthday.
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  So fantastic.
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  Just got back.
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  So I'm fresh.
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  Fresh.
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  and that's the reason where we're having a chat today for a few other reasons.
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  the sort of I guess the focus of today is to one to have some instant recall, so to speak, from Corey, who just traveled there with his with his husband, who happens to be because
• 2:58
  it's LA.
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  He's an actor.
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  It is a late actor.
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  And he was going to join us today.
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  But unfortunately, or not, unfortunately, it's a good reason why he's got a gig.
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  And can I say it?
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  Corey?
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  Yeah.
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  Absolutely, look for They're filming it right now.
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  Yeah, he is working on the next season of The Pit.
• 3:17
  Yeah, unfortunately he can't join us.
• 3:19
  But he and were there recently, as Corey just mentioned, as a birthday celebration for Corey, who was turning 18 once again.
• 3:26
  Christina was also there recently with her husband and her, your baby, it's a baby boy or girl?
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  girl, my my daughter Lenny, she was twenty one month at the time of our trip.
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  So we went in May.
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  So also fresh.
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  Also
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  Very fresh.
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  And the last time I actually spoke to Christina was about the Nordics, but it was, I think you just had your baby.
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  I literally just had her.
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  It was like my first work activity after having her.
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  So it was fun.
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  It was fun.
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  Yeah.
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  So we're going to talk about the destinations and in in today, in particular, the four countries that Christina mentioned, uh Finland, Iceland, Finland, Norway, Sweden and
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  Denmark.
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  with both of our guests, recent trips there, I've been to these countries, not as recently, and I love them.
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  So let me tell you first my story, then we'll get into your more recent travels.
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  When I was a kid growing up, and I know Corey will like this because this is one of the highlights of his trip to
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  the Nordics and Christina, I don't know, you can jump in and say whether it was something that was part of your excitement going there.
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  For sure.
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  In Australia growing up, ABBA in the 70s, they had their first number one in Australia.
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  They were probably their most popular when they were sort of coming out in Australia.
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  So ABBA and Equal Sweden stuck with me as a kid, both the music and the fact they came from Sweden, which was so exotic as an Australian.
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  So when I finally got there, it was like, oh, I'm in Sweden.
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  And by extension, went to Norway, went to Denmark, went to Finland, and it was absolutely amazing.
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  It was a childhood dream.
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  I also like ABBA and their music.
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  So I went to the ABBA Museum, which I know Corey went to, and I know he'll talk about.
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  So that was my sort of initial haul to the region.
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  So let me start with you, Christina, prior to you working for the Nordics and representing them and your obviously trips to there.
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  Yeah.
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  Was there childhood or a young adult um draw to this region um for you and or your husband even?
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  Yeah, my husband actually so my husband's a cinematographer and he's had the privilege of he's been to Sweden before and he's traveled quite a bit in Europe.
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  I had not had much European experience.
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  I my family vacations were always to Caribbean destinations.
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  That was kind of my world was a little small until I, you know, got into travel myself.
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  I I first worked with South African tourism and so it kinda cracked me open.
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  So as I kind of was continuing my career and being exposed to the Nordics, I was like, This is just something I just never
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  had in my ether, right?
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  It just wasn't really in my in my direct conscience.
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  So once I had the opportunity to represent this destination, this region, I was like all in.
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  I mean, I love Nordic design.
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  I l I love the coffee culture.
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  I love hookah.
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  I love it all.
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  It's just
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  It it embodies everything that I appreciate and like about um of life and travel and it really beyond lives up to the hype and the expectation that you may have if you've never
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  experienced it yourself firsthand.
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  So yeah, I could I could go on and on.
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  And that's why this was a personal trip.
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  This wasn't
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  Obviously there's work benefits to me going there, but this was me and my husband's like, this is what we're doing.
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  We wanted to do it ourselves.
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  So and I stand by that.
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  You know, we're like, where are we going next in the Nordics?
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  It's like, check all off for for our daughter, you know.
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  So is it fair to say you've landed into, if not the dream job, a dream job for yourself?
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  Gosh, are you kidding?
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  Yes, absolutely.
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  No, it doesn't get much better than this.
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  It really doesn't.
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  So Corey, same question for you now, obviously working with you and knowing you for three or four years now, it's been a while.
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  I know that you have traveled, well, you and your husband Jim have traveled extensively prior to this.
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  So what was the draw to the Nordics?
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  Was it like to add to the list of countries or was there something there?
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  I know one of the reasons was the ABA Museum.
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  Was there anything beyond that that sort of drew both of you to the same?
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  It just was a bit of an evolving situation.
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  We had traveled, like I said, quite a bit.
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  And so we we've been to Asia just rec yeah, like three years ago.
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  So that's somewhat recently in my in my age wise.
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  And then we'd been down to Latin America and then last year we went to India.
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  And India is just so
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  uh all in uh how can we say all encompassing it's overwhelming it can be quite overwhelming so we were kind of thinking okay next next time let's do something a little
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  bit more nature and more hiking and less like crowds is kind of what I thought was and um then my birthday was coming up it's ends with zero I'll say that and um yeah we we were
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  starting to think well how about ABBA Museum?
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  I've never done the Nordics people and
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  my generation, when we backpacked around Europe, we always felt like that was too expensive.
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  You'd always heard stories and we were, you know, in the college, after college, beer drinking, and everybody was saying, the beer prices are crazy expensive.
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  Go south.
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  So I had never been up there.
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  I'd traveled all through Europe, all through Greece, Italy, and, you know, the usuals, London, Paris, Amsterdam, lived in London, lived in Scotland for a while, and I just never
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  got across to the Nordics.
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  And so
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  For a birthday, we're like, okay, if it's gonna be expensive, let's spend it.
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  This is a significant trip.
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  So we started making plans and definitely wanting to hike is our number one aspect of a trip.
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  We do a lot of hiking.
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  We didn't all through the Inca Trail and things like that.
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  We'd trek towards Everest and so we towards keyword.
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  And so the hiking, when we started researching the hiking was just stunning when you look at some of these places.
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  So that that was cemented
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  the situation and then come to find out pricing wasn't near what we had ex thought.
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  We did not realize that it's it actually is can be within a client's budget, you know, with people's budget.
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  So with the help of Go Way doing some research and seeing places we could go and the pricing, we're like, we can do this.
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  Let's let's make it happen.
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  We start around January.
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  So that's probably what for a July trip.
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  So we were seven months out planning, which is probably usual for clients as they're
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  Picking their trips, but ABBA was a highlight.
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  It definitely was.
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  We you know, people are saying it's kind of smaller, and it would we kind of thought maybe be hokey, tutouristy, you know.
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  And we thought that when we arrived out front, they have the cutout with the circle where you put your head through and then you're part of ABBA.
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  But inside, just amazing.
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  There are just so many small details, you know, like clothing, especially.
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  And it was just really nice.
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  And my husband, uh Jim.
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  He's a much bigger fan than I was.
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  I didn't realize this.
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  It's like the inner ABBA came out.
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  Like he knew they had certain set designs.
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  Like the cover of one of the ABBA albums, maybe Don, I'll quiz you, is a helicopter.
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  They're they're sitting in a helicopter cover.
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  Well, that helicopter um scene is actually in the museum.
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  It's in the museum.
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  You can sit in it and pretend, you know, create a cover and you can also dance with them.
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  And to show you what a nerd I am about Abba,
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  there you go.
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  So see I did not know that.
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  I knew the songs and all that, but he knew all that stuff.
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  So it was
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  So Christina, can I ask you, you are younger than both Corey and I.
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  Was ABBA ever on the radar for you?
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  So Corey's motivation, just heard, know, traveled many places, obviously coming off to India, he was looking for a completely different experience, which the Nordics compared to
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  India is.
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  Polar.
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  Polar.
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  You were in a different situation there, Christine, because as you told us at beginning of that conversation, young daughter is 21 months old at the time of travel.
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  So for you, when you were looking at the Nordics, apart from the professional connection, what drew you there with the consideration of traveling with, I don't want say newborn,
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  but a young infant?
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  I think the safety, knowing that it was such a safe destination, that I felt like this was our first international trip, first time Lenny was going on a plane.
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  So we wanted to feel as comfortable as we could.
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  And there's few destinations where I feel like, you know, we're big fans of like a Costa Rica or more adventurous, like off the beaten path.
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  And I'm like, I don't feel ready for that kind of you know, I want something that I feel like I can really have my boots on the ground and feel like we can navigate easily and
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  that we can combine multiple countries in one.
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  So really maximizing the trip without feeling like it's so much of this headache.
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  And I feel like the Nordics does that so well.
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  And so we were naturally able to combine multiple countries.
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  So we started with Copenhagen and then we had a day trip in Malmo and Sweden, and then we went to West Northwestern Norway.
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  So we were able to see and do a lot.
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  We were there two weeks and I feel like we packed it all in, but it was very doable at the same time, which is what we wanted to do.
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  We wanted to give her an adventure and we wanted to give ourselves one too.
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  My my husband husband
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  He always jokes that he never gets to go on my work trips, you know, 'cause I'm usually hosting, you know, agents or or media or whatever it is.
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  And so it was like, Can we please go to the Nordics?
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  Like, can I please get a taste of this?
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  So it was a natural kind of progression from there of being feeling that comfort and feeling like we we wanna just personally wanna explore it ourselves too.
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  So I would gather as your husband you mentioned is a cinematographer that he travels with cameras.
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  He must have I'm sure he did some research or he's aware of the photographic and video opportunities in these areas because having been there and being a photographer myself.
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  The opportunities and Corey's got his his what do call it Corey your bag.
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  The Bragg book.
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  I just got it in the mail.
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  That's why I'm so excited.
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  We just got it.
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  I finished it.
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  It takes hours and hours and hours to do these shutterfly books.
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  So we do one.
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  And this is like two weeks of work and then it comes in a brightly orange package and it's so exciting.
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  So yeah, I'm ready.
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  But definitely the scenery.
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  I gotta do better about that, about printing the photos.
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  He's really big on shooting on film right now.
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  So we have some amazing yeah, he's really big into film both from a cinematography and a photography perspective.
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  So we got some gorgeous, amazing film photos and video in in all of the countries which were so special.
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  I gotta print them out.
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  I gotta print them out.
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  does he develop those?
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  Yeah, I was going to say because
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  um The film culture is actually quite alive and well um in that in that community.
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  So you'd be surprised.
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  Um still has film labs and there's also more kind of like independent film labs that are kind of popping up more and more.
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  I am surprised.
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  I'm not surprised again because he's a cinema photographer.
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  He's obviously into it and he wants to experiment and or get the best results.
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  But it's just interesting because I remember when I was on the road to tour guide.
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  That's when I got into photography.
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  And back then the business all pre digital.
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  You only had film and I was using slides and slide film.
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  Good slide film is expensive.
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  And because I was in Latin America on a truck I used to send my film back to the UK.
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  Same here.
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  Yeah, and it then gets, it then gets sent back to me on the road somewhere.
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  I'd look through what I liked and I'd send those slides back to get them printed and back.
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  So took a lot of, mind you, my circumstance is a little bit different than the average person.
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  Took a long time and it costs so much money.
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  And you had to be so selective behind the viewfinder knowing that each photo or shot was going to cost you something.
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  And this, these, this day and age, I was taking photos of a rugby game recently and just had it on motor drive.
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  I just didn't care.
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  Yeah, fire it off.
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  I can just delete all the junk.
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  So I'm impressed that like it's impressive Because you've really got to have an eye to capture
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  You do.
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  You do.
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  There's a lot of pressure.
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  And I I'm like on the same way like 'cause I like having my my DSLR, but I like having options, right?
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  So I'm taking like a million photos of the same exact spot and he's like, No, just one.
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  And you know, you don't get it until like months later and you're like, can we take it on my phone too?
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  Can we take it on like he's like, No, trust.
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  And it or if not, it comes out.
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  It's so much better than what I would capture, you know, on my little iPhone, you know.
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  so I can see some creative tension on your trip then possibly.
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  I guess.
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  Yeah, we made it work.
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  Yeah, I'm sure you did.
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  Okay, then.
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  So one thing now for me, this was a sharp contrast, again, because of my professional past and guiding past being primarily based in Latin America and or the Middle East, you know,
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  India type thing.
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  My first big trip, because, you know, I worked in Latin America here, and then we
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  This is back in Galway, you know, seven, eight years ago now.
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  We bought on Europe and in turn we bought on the Nordics.
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  And I went across to Sweden for the very first time, Norway, Finland, et cetera, to do some research for new product.
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  So for me, it was a harsh reality check, so to speak, from traveling in Latin America, which is Latin, which I love to death, it's still my favorite spot.
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  But I got to Sweden, I think it was, or Norway, I can't remember where I landed.
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  And of course, I'm in Europe, right?
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  So it's Europe to start with.
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  So Europe is not Latin, Latin is not Europe.
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  but I found it so switched on all the Nordic countries.
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  I know we're focusing on four, but literally landing at the airport, there was just a tap to get on the airport shuttle, or the airport train.
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  It was sweet, I think in Stockholm.
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  And then there was wife on the train.
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  The trains are clean and beautiful.
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  Everything ran so smoothly.
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  The country's to my eyes, and you can speak more to this please, Christina, ah clean, pristine.
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  And as I started venturing further, Phil,
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  or you can comment this in your time in Norway.
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  It is pristine and it seems to be like it's an in your face sustainability vibe is what I'm getting at is that.
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  ah And I learned a lot in Norway too.
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  And I did this fantastic bike tour around Oslo with an American actually who married a Norwegian woman.
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  And he spoke of all the incentives for green, for uh battery powered cars.
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  It was just amazing.
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  how switched on and forward thinking I found the Nordic.
• 17:43
  So can you maybe expand on some of that sort of cultural aspect, Christina, for us?
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  Yeah, I think what people underestimate, I think, about the Nordics is like, you know, sustainability's such a big buzzword, if you will, in marketing and and tourism.
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  But it's kind of like their DNA.
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  They they don't even think about it as being sustainable because it's just the way things are done there.
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  So, you know, it the cooperation, when we talk about sustainable travel, I think a lot of people have this
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  focus on like, okay, we're just talking talking about carbon and transportation, but there's so many different ways to be sustainable that is kind of naturally embedded into
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  the Nordic way of life.
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  Like going off season, like my trips at their heart, at their core, you know, I still went to the capital cities.
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  I had a very, you know, straightforward, if you will, itinerary because I had my toddler and I wanted to make it as
• 18:33
  easy and simple as possible.
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  But you know, we went in a shoulder season.
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  We went in May, which was a really great way to just have a s a quick little sustainability check into your experience.
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  And I think a lot of people think sustainable means like compromise, like, I'm gonna make it more complicated.
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  It's gonna be I'm losing something.
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  I can't see northern lights or I can't do this.
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  And it's like it often enriches the experience.
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  You know, going when I was in Finland in October, um
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  I saw the Northern Lights in the fall.
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  The fall period was such an amazing time to go and experience.
• 19:02
  A lot of people think I have to be there in the dead of winter to see northern lights.
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  And absolutely you don't.
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  So I think there is a lot of just common misconceptions about what sustainability looks like and can mean.
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  And you know, it's just like supporting local community places and and and stays.
• 19:17
  It's just there are a lot more easy ways to be sustainable than just straightforward like d don't go on an airplane, you know.
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  Yeah.
• 19:24
  And again, that's what I sort of as I sort of paid attention to it, to your point, it's not as if they're standing on the hilltop.
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  This is more Switzerland yodeling from the hilltops.
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  We are sustainable.
• 19:35
  are green.
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  It's just all around you.
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  I now remember most of the buses in Norway.
• 19:41
  Sorry.
• 19:41
  Or at in the capital cities in Sweden and Norway and Finland, for that matter, were electric buses.
• 19:46
  um And again, there's a big push on electric cars.
• 19:50
  ah And yeah, it's just
• 19:53
  I think you summed up really well.
• 19:55
  It's just part of their DNA.
• 19:56
  They just do it as it's the way to do it, not to earn kudos, so to speak, though.
• 20:01
  That is obviously, you know, a good byproduct, so to speak, of it as well.
• 20:07
  that's something that and again, I know we're focusing on the four countries, but I think that extends definitely to Iceland as well.
• 20:13
  um so that's something to keep in mind for our travel partners out there.
• 20:17
  If you're looking for ethical, I guess, for one of the better term.
• 20:21
  destinations from a sustainability point of view than the Nordics have at all.
• 20:26
  yeah, and I think again, Christine is totally.
• 20:30
  It's just said in their DNA.
• 20:32
  We we we got really lucky with the weather and we talked to so many people that all they do is bike or walk.
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  And if the weather's nice, they that's the mode of transportation preferred.
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  And I was like, how far away you are you?
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  it took me an hour to bike here.
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  And it was just like that was awesome.
• 20:48
  It was a beautiful hour, you know, that type of thing.
• 20:50
  And the other fascinating part, which I know we have to some extent here in the US, but like a train, it'll everywhere we went, in the outskirts, the middle of
• 21:00
  you know, some really amazing scenery, the bus stop will say five minutes to next bus or ten minutes to next bus and it's actually there.
• 21:07
  Like so you can really confidently plan your trip as to when a bus is going to come.
• 21:14
  And we took buses all over our whole generally our whole time was public transportation.
• 21:20
  And it was absolutely fantastic.
• 21:22
  And one interesting aspect, don't know if Christina when you were there, we never used cash once.
• 21:28
  Any sort of
• 21:29
  was my next question.
• 21:31
  Not once.
• 21:31
  I mean I had money to change in my pocket.
• 21:34
  We thought, well, we'll change it when we need it.
• 21:36
  We'll get some Norwegian money or Swedish money crowns.
• 21:40
  And never once.
• 21:41
  I mean, even on the middle of we were hiking Praikastolen and going to waterfall waterfalls and you're really off the beaten track.
• 21:50
  There was a it even had a sign saying walk up thirty meters to get a signal so that you can pay for your parking.
• 21:57
  Like it would not only because people couldn't get a signal where the parking was down below.
• 22:02
  So it would say, Pay for your parking thirty meters up.
• 22:04
  I mean how that's just organized.
• 22:07
  really a cashless society.
• 22:09
  When I was in Rovon Yemi in Finland, we were at like a local couple's house for dinner.
• 22:14
  They were at a like a host of kind of homestay vibe.
• 22:16
  Um they would had their own workshop.
• 22:18
  We're in the middle of nowhere in Lapland and I paid for my
• 22:23
  crafts with my credit card.
• 22:26
  You guys what?
• 22:27
  It's it was baffling, but it's amazing and it makes yeah that convenience that goes such a long way, especially for, you know, North American travelers who are used to it in other
• 22:35
  parts of the world.
• 22:35
  So that's that's a huge draw.
• 22:37
  Yeah, because I was going to ask you both that question and you have answered because when I was there in Norway and Sweden, I remember speaking to our local guides and just people
• 22:45
  that at the time both countries were going or were working towards being officially cashless to get rid of cash altogether.
• 22:54
  They tried it and again this might have changed.
• 22:56
  You can update me on this Christina if you know that they couldn't go 100 % cashless because cash was still needed.
• 23:03
  for certain things.
• 23:04
  It was more government transactional stuff versus the day to day.
• 23:07
  But to Corey's point, when I was there, and this is four or five years ago, if not longer, yeah, I don't think I had any, I had cash on me in case, and I think I brought it home as
• 23:17
  a collector's item.
• 23:20
  But yeah, I don't remember using cash at all as well.
• 23:22
  So again, this is where I was just, I know compared to a Latin America, it is Europe, but it seems to me, it seemed to me past tense.
• 23:32
  that the Nordics seem to be that next step ahead.
• 23:34
  And they're always thinking ahead again when it comes to lifestyle choices.
• 23:39
  And again, I picked this up from my guide in Norway that um in Norway and extends to Sweden um and Finland to less agree Denmark.
• 23:48
  But because their winters are so harsh and their summers are so short, I know in Norway they I think the official finish time workday is four o'clock because they want you
• 23:58
  finishing work and going out and enjoying.
• 24:00
  the outdoors and the sunshine while you can.
• 24:03
  And of course, they're all socialist governments.
• 24:07
  most things are taken care of, you you pay high taxes, but you get free education, free, uh free medical care.
• 24:15
  Like, it's just it.
• 24:18
  Countries in the world.
• 24:19
  That is like the happiest countries in the world.
• 24:21
  Google that.
• 24:22
  Happiest one.
• 24:23
  The other aspect that I you just reminded me is the technology is so advanced.
• 24:28
  And one thing we had no idea is we were in Staubinger.
• 24:32
  The longest drivable tunnel in the world is now in Staubinger.
• 24:38
  It was cra I mean, it goes on for 17 kilometers.
• 24:41
  You can Google this and do that.
• 24:43
  I might be off a bit, but
• 24:45
  It is incredible.
• 24:46
  And that is to save on emissions because otherwise you drive all the way around.
• 24:51
  Yes, it's going to cost a fortune.
• 24:53
  And yes, it's pretty incredible technology.
• 24:56
  But they are going to build tunnel road all the way from Stavinger to Bergen in Norway.
• 25:03
  And you can watch those videos now, and they're pretty impressive.
• 25:06
  Like they are the leaders in tunnel building, and it's all sustainable.
• 25:13
  Like absolutely.
• 25:14
  sustainable in so many ways.
• 25:16
  Just recycling the air, recycling everything they can do.
• 25:21
  It's it's it wasn't impressive.
• 25:23
  Yeah, it's an amazing.
• 25:24
  to see it too, right?
• 25:25
  Like seeing this tunnel like in the middle of this like mountain.
• 25:28
  You're like, what is it's just crazy.
• 25:29
  It's just very fun to see.
• 25:31
  Let me ask you this, Christina, when you went from Copenhagen across the Malmo, did you take that?
• 25:37
  The train?
• 25:38
  Well, you took the train, but it goes under the.
• 25:41
  Yes.
• 25:41
  Yes.
• 25:42
  That's another amazing thing, because I came the other way from Sweden into Denmark and you're on a bridge over the water and all of a you go into the underneath the lake or the
• 25:52
  the the strait.
• 25:54
  yeah, it's amazing technology.
• 25:57
  think, too, in.
• 26:00
  Denmark, in Copenhagen,
• 26:02
  across from the city, there's some factory, some description, but they designed it in a way that the roof in the wintertime becomes a ski run.
• 26:11
  So I love it.
• 26:14
  But again, like, you know, they don't think of everything, but they do think ahead and whatnot.
• 26:19
  Okay, Christina, so back to your trip.
• 26:22
  Did you find it, like, I think I know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway, traveling with a toddler, ah let me ask you this, back it up.
• 26:30
  How did you get around?
• 26:31
  Were you like, Corey, were you using public transport?
• 26:33
  Were you using private guides, a combination of both?
• 26:35
  Did you find traveling with a toddler easy if it was public transport?
• 26:41
  Yeah, I think I'd be lying if I said it was easy.
• 26:43
  Um, having a young one.
• 26:45
  But so so we flew from from Newark to Copenhagen and we stayed at Villa Copenhagen, which is really right access right by the metro.
• 26:53
  So it was very easy to get to our hotel.
• 26:55
  And then we flew to Olysund when we were um going starting our Norway trip.
• 27:01
  So that was just a quick flight.
• 27:02
  And then we drove, we got a rental car when we were there.
• 27:05
  So we drove from Olisund to Grengerfjord first, so because
• 27:10
  The way it worked with our route coming home, we would have had to wake up very early to fly out to Oslo from Olleson.
• 27:16
  So we were like, let's start the journey in Grangerfjord, then drive back and end in Olison so that we're
• 27:21
  right there to to leave for our international trip back home.
• 27:24
  So yeah, we had a rental car in all of our Norway trip and it was I can't recommend that more.
• 27:28
  That was so nice to have that freedom to, you know, drive to different viewpoints and feel like you can kind of explore your own.
• 27:34
  That was super helpful for us.
• 27:36
  And then obviously taking the train all throughout w when we were in Copenhagen, we never obviously had any kind of car or didn't need it because just the public transportation is
• 27:45
  absolutely seamless.
• 27:46
  So that was very easy.
• 27:47
  So our whole week in Copenhagen we were just kind of exploring by foot or by
• 27:51
  By train and metro.
• 27:53
  Yeah, would.
• 27:54
  People have listened to me on podcasts when I was no, you know, used to be a guy and overland driver.
• 27:58
  So I always if time allows, you know, drive wherever you can, because I find that the best way to see a country.
• 28:06
  again, it was on my first trip over to Sweden for there's a big Nordics trade show over there, you know, bio show.
• 28:13
  can't remember what it's called.
• 28:14
  An annual one.
• 28:15
  But our.
• 28:17
  Ground operator, he was there and we drove from.
• 28:21
  somewhere around Stockholm.
• 28:22
  It wasn't in Stockholm, but near there.
• 28:24
  And we drove into Copenhagen.
• 28:27
  So we drove through southern Sweden.
• 28:31
  it was just beautiful.
• 28:33
  Like all this farmland, castles.
• 28:36
  It was amazing.
• 28:37
  And having traveled through Norway, not by road too much, primarily by rail, as all three of us know, Norway in its scenery is stunning, astounding, with all the fjords.
• 28:50
  So to have the opportunity, as you did, Christina, to drive in that area would be fantastic.
• 28:55
  So our travel partners out there, we do have lots of self drives available for these areas.
• 28:59
  So keep that in mind when you're offering options for your clients.
• 29:04
  Corey, you said you were doing sort of public transport for the most part.
• 29:07
  Well we did the train, so we did so just I mean, we didn't get down to Denmark, so I can't wait to go back and I'm already thinking about actually going back because there are a
• 29:16
  couple of trails we didn't get to hike.
• 29:17
  Um we flew into Sweden, so we did Stockholm and did the three days there, and then we took the train to Oslo and experienced that, and then we went out to Bergen by train.
• 29:30
  And I you know, the trains are just amazing.
• 29:32
  Uh just the scenery, the
• 29:34
  the the the pubs.
• 29:36
  They have a pub car and and it was just really cause you meet other people.
• 29:41
  So w in those pub cars, I you know, I'm pretty outgoing.
• 29:45
  Everybody wanted to give you suggestions and places and writing down and come see my family.
• 29:49
  And it it's just had that kindness as we were traveling.
• 29:52
  So that was to from Oslo to Bergen and then we took the ferry Bergen down to Staubinger and then Staubinger back we flew.
• 29:59
  I mean that was
• 30:01
  a go way suggestion because we did it is quite a long train ride and so that was excellent.
• 30:06
  I wish I would have done the ferry from Stavinger on down to Denmark and flown out.
• 30:10
  So then I would have done another one.
• 30:12
  So that was but that was, you know, we're kind of in a in a time range.
• 30:15
  Two weeks was our trip as well.
• 30:17
  And so we rented a car for three days around Stavinger.
• 30:20
  So we did get out.
• 30:21
  That's how you can get to the hikes.
• 30:23
  Many people got there via public transportation, but um we decided to rent a car and it was fantastic.
• 30:28
  It was really
• 30:29
  Really nice.
• 30:30
  So we we kind of did the combo and Go way's great to make amazing suggestions, but then we just added more, like you guys were saying, and you had a toddler.
• 30:39
  We did so much.
• 30:40
  Like our first day, we saw the changing of the guard in Stockholm.
• 30:44
  We went out to ABBA, went over to the Vasa Museum, which you can look it up.
• 30:49
  Absolutely incredible.
• 30:50
  Which we have no idea about it.
• 30:52
  And then we went over to see the Avici Museum and some of the younger generations Avici.
• 30:58
  Incredible, a beautiful story of a young DJ whose father built the museum for him.
• 31:05
  So that's a teaser.
• 31:06
  Um absolutely beautiful.
• 31:07
  And then we saw sunset and we were there in July and that's about quarter to eleven.
• 31:11
  So quite a long day.
• 31:13
  That's day one.
• 31:15
  We don't mess around.
• 31:17
  much in one day.
• 31:18
  Yeah.
• 31:18
  We we were astounded by that too, like how much you can do in one day.
• 31:22
  And so it felt like you could pack a lot in because everything's so close, right?
• 31:25
  Everything's just accessible with the trains and everything.
• 31:28
  And yeah, it's great.
• 31:30
  Yeah.
• 31:30
  So on that point to Stockholm, I concur with what Corey says because the Abernmuseum and the Vasa Museum are almost next door to each other.
• 31:40
  can walk between the two.
• 31:42
  And I was the same.
• 31:42
  I didn't know about the Vasa Museum until we got there.
• 31:44
  And I'm a historian buff.
• 31:46
  For those who don't know, this is a 15th century sailboat or vessel that was launched in the harbor of Stockholm.
• 31:56
  And it got about a hundred yards out of
• 32:00
  port and it tipped over because it was designed.
• 32:03
  And it's face.
• 32:05
  Your brand new tree, literally brand new.
• 32:09
  I think about 30 odd of the sailors died, but it's sunk and there was forgotten about for the most part.
• 32:15
  then, and again, this is all in the museum.
• 32:17
  was rediscovered and brought up.
• 32:19
  So you will see a full size, almost complete 15th century ah vessel, a man of war ship.
• 32:28
  It's stunning.
• 32:29
  what we're looking at is ninety eight percent original of this sh warship that's as big as like four football fields.
• 32:37
  Yeah, hold one football field.
• 32:39
  It's
• 32:39
  And again, going back to the Nordics, you know, sort of art design and planning and doing things properly in the right way.
• 32:47
  spent, and this is all in the museum, years and years planning that they'll get it up and they built this museum around it, moved it in there.
• 32:53
  It's all, um, atmosphereically controlled.
• 32:55
  It's fantastic.
• 32:56
  Um, of course you've also got historically going now up to Oslo.
• 33:01
  You have the Fram Museum and you have the, there's an
• 33:08
  I'm not sure what it's called, Christina, just outside of Oslo.
• 33:11
  I think it's the Viking Ship Museum, which has been closed for about two or three years under renovation.
• 33:16
  tiki.
• 33:17
  Kiki Museum.
• 33:19
  Yeah.
• 33:19
  Do you know if that's
• 33:20
  Has that opened up again?
• 33:21
  you know?
• 33:22
  I don't
• 33:23
  Is it you went?
• 33:24
  Yeah.
• 33:26
  Definitely open and there's beaches right there, which is really cool.
• 33:29
  We I that was a stumble on because we were going to the beach.
• 33:32
  We wanted a half day beach day.
• 33:34
  We were in July, and so people on the transportation said, Hey, why don't you go to the beach?
• 33:38
  People at the place, the hotel we were staying.
• 33:41
  we're gonna go to the beach tomorrow.
• 33:42
  It was a Sunday, and so we're like, great.
• 33:44
  And we went out there and the Contiki we did about an hour and a half because it was the end of the day, and we were ferrying back into the main town of Oslo, and it was right
• 33:52
  there at the ferry, one of the little ferry terminals from the beach, and we're like, Hey.
• 33:56
  Let's pop in.
• 33:57
  So
• 33:58
  So there you go.
• 33:58
  See, that's the other thing too.
• 33:59
  I remember I rode a bike out to these two museums and then I put the bike on the ferry and came back.
• 34:04
  So back to Christina's point earlier on, these areas, be it big, getting from, say, Stockholm to Oslo or Oslo to Southern Norway or Stockholm to Helsinki by the Baltic
• 34:17
  ferries.
• 34:18
  It's so well connected, but even on the small scale.
• 34:21
  um And again, so the Fram Museum is all about polar exploration, primarily the Arctic.
• 34:26
  And the Conti Museum is, think, one of the only places, if not the only place in the world, that has a full-sized, authentic, long boat, long ship from the Viking era.
• 34:37
  So if you're new to history, there's all the, you know, all the Viking lore, which is very popular of late with all the TV shows and stuff like that.
• 34:46
  That's all around all these areas as well.
• 34:48
  And then you have World War II history and also it's amazing, the Opera House.
• 34:52
  It's fantastic.
• 34:54
  Christina, let's...
• 34:56
  Let's talk a bit about Finland, which hasn't got so much of the spotlight just yet.
• 34:59
  uh You mentioned Lapland and you mentioned you're up there in October and you saw the uh Northern Lights.
• 35:07
  Can you expand a bit on one, Lapland and two in general, how the Nordics and particularly Lapland of Sweden and Norway, which will have a bit of Lapland in them, are not just a
• 35:19
  summer destination, they're also a very good winter, like hard of winter destination.
• 35:24
  yes, I mean Lapland, I think that's mostly I think that's the the what people know is that either it's summer or it's winter.
• 35:30
  Obviously in Lapland in in Finland, that's where the home of Santa Claus is.
• 35:35
  So we met Santa Claus and in Rovaniemi, so that's always a fun highlight.
• 35:39
  You know, doing like dog sleding.
• 35:42
  Usually you're doing it on a sled in the wintertime, but we went in October, so we do it in a cart.
• 35:46
  So we went like dog cart racing, which was kind of a fun experience.
• 35:50
  So I think yeah, a lot of people and you know
• 35:53
  Well, they have a saying in the Nordics that's like there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing, right?
• 35:58
  So I was really prepared
• 36:00
  Many times.
• 36:02
  It's so true, 'cause I will be honest, I am a fair weather girl at heart.
• 36:07
  I liked my summer, I like not being cold.
• 36:10
  So I remember when I was going to Lapland and I was like I I got all the things, I got all the bundled up stuff and can I was going in October so it wasn't too bad, but I was so
• 36:18
  comfortable, right?
• 36:19
  Because I prepared, right?
• 36:20
  And I did the same thing when we went in for our trip in in
• 36:25
  May, you know, because I was it could have been very different.
• 36:27
  We were very much lucked out with our weather.
• 36:29
  we had great sun sh shiny days, but we were prepared for if it wasn't going to be.
• 36:35
  So in October in Finland, it was such a nice, pleasant surprise because I feel like I got to see all the fun experiences, but I wasn't freezing cold, you know, and and obviously
• 36:45
  the northern lights was such a huge highlight.
• 36:47
  We stayed at the Arctic Treehouse Hotel in Roland and it's just it's insane.
• 36:54
  Tree house.
• 36:55
  Wow.
• 36:56
  I'm picturing igloos in a tree, which I don't think is the c
• 37:00
  Yeah, you're in your own little tree house, which is really tremendous.
• 37:03
  And that's and we saw again the night that we had gone to that those local makers' home and they had dinner, we first saw it when we were at their property, and then we went back
• 37:11
  to the hotel and then we saw it again like a little bit later.
• 37:14
  And they give you alerts, right, on your phone if you choose to opt into it at the hotel.
• 37:18
  Like they could wake you up
• 37:19
  Technology
• 37:22
  So then my me and my group all like it's like midnight, we're like texting each other, like you guys wanna go outside and go see.
• 37:29
  So we all ran outside, we met in in outside and just we're looking at the northern lights together.
• 37:33
  It was just the best.
• 37:34
  It was like our last I think it was our last night in Finland and it was like we couldn't have possibly dreamed up a better send off.
• 37:40
  So yeah, Finland is such a special destination.
• 37:42
  I think people underestimate it a lot.
• 37:44
  Um but yeah.
• 37:45
  Yeah, I think as we did ourselves just in our conversation so far, you know, we sort of focus in on the two biggies, which would be Sweden and Norway, and focusing on the four
• 37:56
  main countries.
• 37:56
  We've even not given Denmark its its fair spotlight.
• 38:00
  But a lot of people do neglect Finland, which is a shame because, again, historically, it's at the crossroads of so much history.
• 38:08
  It's easy to get to most people.
• 38:10
  Well, you can always fly.
• 38:12
  Yeah.
• 38:13
  My suggestion is, and we did this, is you take the Baltic ferry service from, in our instance, was Stockholm into Helsinki, it was in overnight, and these ferries are very
• 38:21
  much like a small version, relatively small version of a big cruise ship in that they've got shops on board, bars, restaurants, that type of thing.
• 38:33
  yeah, duty free, the whole thing.
• 38:35
  And you see a lot of the people from the Baltic states, Latvia, Estonia, et cetera, they're all on board.
• 38:41
  buying up monstrous amounts of alcohol to take home with them and stuff like that.
• 38:45
  But I found it.
• 38:46
  I found Helsinki charming compared to the bigger cities, relatively speaking, as Stockholm and Oslo.
• 38:53
  It's a smaller city, but again, historically rich.
• 38:57
  Again, very, very modern, very forward thinking.
• 39:00
  Not that it's an option at the moment, unfortunately, but that's where you can take the train from Helsinki into St.
• 39:06
  Petersburg.
• 39:07
  Hopefully when Russia opens up again, which is an amazing
• 39:10
  trail, a rail journey in itself.
• 39:12
  um So for those who may not know, Christine, obviously Finland, Oslo and Norway, what did I say?
• 39:20
  Finland, start that again, Helsinki, Stockholm and Oslo, sorry, are roughly are all about the same, was it latitude or longitude, whatever.
• 39:31
  They're all about the same distance, so to speak.
• 39:34
  So when you head north, let's talk Finland for the moment, obviously,
• 39:39
  flight would be the obvious choice due to the distances.
• 39:43
  But I do know you can, back to what you said about driving, you can drive from the southern parts of these countries into their northern regions, is that right?
• 39:52
  Yes, of course.
• 39:54
  Yeah.
• 39:54
  And the rail journeys obviously as well.
• 39:56
  course, there's rail.
• 39:58
  And I think one big option which we have sold a lot of in the past is talking Norway because Norway is like one side of it is all very, very coastal.
• 40:07
  Lots of fjords is you have the Hurtigruten ferry service, which runs from, I think Bergen, maybe even further south all the way up.
• 40:16
  What's the northernmost city or town in Norway, Christina, do you remember off the top of your head?
• 40:23
  oh
• 40:25
  We didn't go that far.
• 40:26
  But I know I was recommended Hurtigruden many, many times before I left.
• 40:30
  So that is that is a tough decision.
• 40:33
  So this is a good, this is more a Norway.
• 40:36
  looking, well, we'll be looking at a map as I'm saying this.
• 40:38
  ah This is a very good option for those who maybe want to do top to bottom Norway.
• 40:43
  ah But as I say, this is on a, I want to find this town where, uh show me, me.
• 40:51
  Anyway, it's a ferry service and it is a ferry that runs up the coast of Norway stopping at all these little towns, fjord towns, and it's dropping off supplies.
• 41:02
  Services.
• 41:03
  Yeah.
• 41:03
  Yeah, it's a car service as well.
• 41:06
  it's also designed for travelers and tourists so you can get a nice cabin and enjoy yourself.
• 41:11
  You mightn't get to spend a lot of time in each port town, but you can always get off and rejoin the ferry another day.
• 41:16
  So that's another good option to get north to south in Norway or south to north.
• 41:20
  Norway and in in the north I always say Senja and Svalborg are really great destinations that are great to explore.
• 41:28
  Yeah, and that's other thing too.
• 41:29
  A lot of people naturally, and we had this conversation the other day when I was, talking about Japan and the golden root and you know, Japan has so much more to offer than that.
• 41:39
  Norway's the same.
• 41:40
  A lot of people do also Bergen ah and Stavring I think it is, but you go north as Christina says, there's, or even south for that matter, like Trollstuhl, like there's all
• 41:51
  this other stuff in all these countries.
• 41:53
  A lot of people, when they think Lapland, they think Finnish Lapland, Lapland.
• 41:58
  because of uh the ice hotels and all that up there.
• 42:00
  But also Northern Sweden has a Lapland, which is just as rich in experience as it's ice hotels.
• 42:07
  Christina, go on.
• 42:09
  No, that was it.
• 42:09
  Sorry.
• 42:11
  Well what is the term Lapland?
• 42:12
  Do you know where that comes from?
• 42:13
  I don't want to put you on the spot, but maybe we can put it up and Dawn can overlay.
• 42:18
  I just wondered Lapland.
• 42:19
  I know people use it.
• 42:20
  I just did no idea where that term came from.
• 42:23
  don't know its actual origins.
• 42:26
  But it just refers to the whole region, like just the whole area.
• 42:29
  Yeah, can tell you that.
• 42:31
  It's the region, generally speaking, of Finland and Sweden primarily, but also into Norway.
• 42:37
  But and I have I've had a brain fart on there is also an indigenous culture, which is in this area.
• 42:45
  Christina, what's oh the Sami people?
• 42:48
  the Sami.
• 42:50
  Yeah.
• 42:50
  So you have that sort of cultural immersion, too, in these countries.
• 42:54
  ah So again, we've now hit Finland.
• 42:58
  quite heavily spoken about Norway and Sweden.
• 43:00
  We haven't really given Denmark its due.
• 43:04
  Christina, can you maybe, because you flew into Copenhagen, do want to expand on options in and around Denmark and why people should not miss that when they look at the sort of
• 43:12
  four big Nordic countries?
• 43:13
  Yeah, I think obviously most people when they think of Denmark, they think of Copenhagen, which is rightfully so, right?
• 43:18
  It's an incredible um destination.
• 43:21
  I think I want if I have anyone have like their biggest takeaway from our conversation is like I'm not trying to get travelers to like
• 43:28
  replace or eliminate these capital experiences, right?
• 43:31
  It's like how can you go beyond it, right?
• 43:33
  Think of these capital cities as your gateway.
• 43:35
  So you're starting your journey just like I did in Copenhagen.
• 43:38
  And then maybe you're going to a Malmo in Sweden or you're going to Odense in in Copenhagen.
• 43:44
  It's like an hour and change by train to a totally different world in Copenhagen.
• 43:49
  So there's so much that you can do within these destinations that really can enrich them and make them a little bit more, you know
• 43:56
  the coastal beaches and coastal communities in in Denmark, people don't think of it.
• 44:01
  They they just think again, city.
• 44:02
  But there are so many amazing fishing villages and coastal communities and amazing destinations that really just wouldn't otherwise be on your radar that are super easy to
• 44:11
  do.
• 44:12
  You know seeing like white chalk cliffs in moon, right?
• 44:16
  Like that's just our like two hours by car ride to do that.
• 44:19
  So you can do Copenhagen and do that if you're trying to
• 44:22
  have something a little bit more doable, or you can go all the way north into the Jutland region and that's a totally different experience.
• 44:27
  So you really can combine a lot and I think that's that's really what people need to realize is feasible.
• 44:33
  Yeah, I think that's a very important part.
• 44:36
  And again, this goes for any country because and we had this common, we focus on this point again in our conversation about Japan is that for a travel professional partner out
• 44:47
  there, when you have a client come to you they want to go to Sweden and or Norway, which is often the very big combination, also to Stockholm, Stockholm, vice versa, and a few
• 44:56
  periphery.
• 44:57
  sites in there.
• 44:59
  If it's their first time there, like as Corey was his first time there.
• 45:01
  First time.
• 45:02
  Well, not for Christina, she's been there a few times, but for Corey was.
• 45:05
  he, you know, he hit naturally, he and Jim hit the big sites as you would.
• 45:10
  this is the thing either second, and this is the good thing about the Nordics and particularly if you then expand it to the Faroe and Iceland and even Greenland, it's a
• 45:20
  three, four return time visit.
• 45:22
  There's so much to see and do.
• 45:23
  And what
• 45:24
  What really hit home for me to Christina's point that she just made there is that that drive I did from, again, it wasn't Stockholm, but it was sort of mid Sweden down into
• 45:33
  Copenhagen.
• 45:33
  That drive through southern Sweden was amazing because not only was it pretty and historic, there were all these beautiful little like B &B type hotels you could stay at.
• 45:45
  There was a culinary culture down there that you could tap into, art festivals.
• 45:50
  It was, yeah, it was
• 45:53
  Beautiful.
• 45:54
  if you really want to get away from the crowds, then hitting southern Norway, Sweden, Finland and Northern Denmark gets you away from a lot of the big crowds as well.
• 46:06
  And then obviously north up into Lapland of those other three big countries.
• 46:10
  So yeah, to Christina's point, there's so much more to see and do beyond the big sites.
• 46:16
  So just keep that in mind when you're speaking to a traveler about maybe extending by a day or two, self-driving or
• 46:22
  just getting off into the, you know.
• 46:24
  Yeah, we did that in our first in Sweden in Stockholm.
• 46:28
  We went out on a ferry.
• 46:30
  They'd have ferry journeys out to all kinds of fishing villages all around.
• 46:34
  One was about two hours away.
• 46:35
  We just kind of wanted to get out on the harbor.
• 46:37
  So instead of taking a harbor cruise, we went to a fishing village.
• 46:41
  And it was had lunch there.
• 46:43
  People weren't as used to seeing as many tourists.
• 46:46
  This was more of a commuter tr ferry into town.
• 46:50
  And then we took it out.
• 46:52
  And saw so many locals that were like, where are you from?
• 46:55
  California.
• 46:55
  Wow, we don't see many Californians.
• 46:57
  So you can get off the beaten track.
• 46:59
  You don't see that everywhere these days.
• 47:01
  So it was just really nice to, you know, be out and about.
• 47:05
  And we did that in every city that now when you were talking about it.
• 47:08
  In Oslo, we went out to the beaches and we went out to, you know, the parks.
• 47:11
  And in Oslo, you can go up to a beautiful park just about forty five minutes out and swim in lakes and have a really good time.
• 47:18
  And then renting a car and stopping her and doing the hikes.
• 47:20
  I mean, you gotta go back if you're
• 47:22
  a hiker and want to get into nature, be cautious, I will say, because it was comical.
• 47:28
  Norwegians will say easy to moderate hike.
• 47:31
  And easy to moderate for Norwegians.
• 47:34
  It's labeled on their websites.
• 47:35
  It's labeled.
• 47:36
  We did precastolen said easy to moderate.
• 47:39
  And they said three hours.
• 47:40
  Well, for us, and we're hikers.
• 47:42
  We're we're I we're decent shape.
• 47:44
  Six hours later we were
• 47:47
  We were like, wow, that is n easy to me is park up high, walk flat, see your view, and then go back.
• 47:54
  That would to me easy.
• 47:55
  But this was I mean, there were Nepalese Sherpas had built the actual stairs for this hike.
• 48:01
  really?
• 48:01
  That there's no easy about it.
• 48:03
  Yeah.
• 48:03
  If you do the research, they had to do some real construction just to make it more permanent.
• 48:08
  And if you look up Precastolen it's where Mission Impossible, the last one, four, I think, is where Tom Cruise
• 48:15
  gets his due or he He he hangs over the side.
• 48:20
  So people can look it up at the end of that for s you get the idea of the beauty of some of the hikes there.
• 48:27
  Or just a waterfall out of town.
• 48:28
  Like we'd get locals saying, Hey, hike this waterfall.
• 48:31
  Yeah, I think it's worth pointing out too that a lot of people know Norway for its amazing fjords, which you see in all the classic photos for marketing and tourism.
• 48:41
  But on the Swedish side, I'm not sure what the ocean is called, north of the Baltic Sea.
• 48:48
  Lots of archipelago, or is huge archipelago, lots of little islands now, arching back to the old Abba story that we started off with.
• 48:54
  Yeah.
• 48:55
  that's where they did a lot of their music.
• 48:57
  Absolutely.
• 48:58
  I I paid attention.
• 48:59
  They were out on those little islands writing the music to get away from it all, to get, you know, kind of nature and get some ideas flowing and yeah, that that was cool.
• 49:09
  And they showed their view.
• 49:11
  Yeah, like all four of these countries are stunningly beautiful, be it winter or summer.
• 49:17
  Christina, question for you.
• 49:18
  And again, I know that you had your toddler with you, this would have restricted it.
• 49:23
  But were you able to be active to some degree with your babe?
• 49:27
  Did you throw her in a backpack and do some trekking yourself?
• 49:30
  In the front.
• 49:31
  We we tried to do it when we were in Norway in Gringerfjord, but then my husband ended up just t doing the hike by himself because we had some big feelings throughout this this
• 49:41
  journey.
• 49:41
  But for the most part, yeah, she was just kinda down for the for the ride.
• 49:44
  And when we were in, you know, Copenhagen especially, we kinda tackled like one neighborhood per day.
• 49:49
  We really wanted to see, like we wanted to soak it all up because we knew we weren't gonna be able to explore so much beyond
• 49:55
  Copenhagen and Denmark and we wanted to really um get it all.
• 49:59
  So we dedicate each day to like one neighborhood and just seeing and doing as much as we could.
• 50:03
  And so we'd be gone from early morning after breakfast until late at night.
• 50:06
  You know, and we did, you know, because it was it wasn't obviously midnight sun this time of year, but the nights were were very long.
• 50:12
  And so she went to bed, you know, at home, she's going to bed at seven o'clock, but here she was going to bed at like ten o'clock.
• 50:17
  Like we went to Tivoli, Tivoli Gardens at nighttime.
• 50:21
  At nighttime.
• 50:21
  And that's my biggest little
• 50:23
  tip to be to parents and you know it was so magical it was really calm and quiet and she was just absolutely enthralled by it as were we you know my husband was like I don't want
• 50:34
  to go to an amusement park he was like not about it and I'm like we have to go to Tivoli like Lenny needs to experience Tivoli and he was like my goodness like can we go back
• 50:43
  again like it was completely we felt like little kids there just it was so transformative and going at nighttime added this
• 50:51
  Different layer to the experience.
• 50:52
  So and and Corey had touched on something earlier that I wanted to kind of expand on.
• 50:56
  Like you don't really know that you're being sustainable in these regions.
• 50:59
  Like you going and saying, we were in Stockholm, but then we did all these day trips, and you don't realize that that is sustainable.
• 51:05
  That is a way to make your trip a little bit more meaningful in a very low lift way, right?
• 51:10
  So I think people overcomplicate the sustainability charge and they think that, yeah, you have to be doing something so out of your comfort zone.
• 51:18
  And it's really, it's built in.
• 51:19
  It's it's really built in.
• 51:21
  But you do have to be willing to, yeah, see and do a little bit more.
• 51:24
  You know, we were more adventurous with our toddler than I maybe was comfortable with, you know, going doing a two two and a half hour drive.
• 51:31
  I was like, she is gonna be but we wanted to see and and do it all.
• 51:34
  And it is very easy to do and it was so worth it to to have those experiences.
• 51:38
  So I think, yeah, don't be afraid to kind of go a little bit further off the beaten path.
• 51:42
  I think that's my biggest kind of takeaway.
• 51:45
  Yeah, and I agree because as Corey has done, he and Jim, they went to these little spots outside the towns and you can get there again on public transport, which is generally
• 51:53
  electrified.
• 51:55
  So to use your term, I like the term, it's not a big lift with respect to putting pressure on ah the environment by using...
• 52:05
  smoke spitting buses and or cabs or whatever.
• 52:08
  It's so well connected that it's and it's easy to do even with a toddler.
• 52:13
  And I've got to say I am impressed with both you and your husband for taking on a trip like this because we did the same thing when our kids were a bit younger to Australia.
• 52:20
  And as you said, and I that's why I laughed earlier on.
• 52:24
  It's like it's always fun, but it's always a challenge like a toddler is a toddler.
• 52:27
  They have their challenges.
• 52:28
  There's no way out of it.
• 52:29
  But I've got to say I'm impressed with your daughter.
• 52:31
  It's like to be up at seven in the morning and be going all day.
• 52:34
  Yeah.
• 52:35
  m And being manageable, that's all relative of course.
• 52:38
  really Yeah, up until 10 at night.
• 52:40
  That's impressive on her front as well.
• 52:42
  So I think you do have a future traveler.
• 52:44
  No, she loved it.
• 52:46
  She was thriving.
• 52:47
  Like going through the King's Garden in Copenhagen.
• 52:49
  She's just running through.
• 52:50
  Like she was just thriving.
• 52:52
  oh It was really fun.
• 52:54
  Thank you.
• 52:55
  you this question, Christina?
• 52:56
  Prior to your daughter coming onto the scene, are or not were, because I'm sure once she's older, your daughter, if you were active and outdoors type people, that will come back
• 53:06
  into your travel plans.
• 53:07
  But were you an active couple?
• 53:09
  Like do you trek and raft?
• 53:12
  Husband more than me.
• 53:13
  My husband more than me.
• 53:14
  I used to say I only go camping when it's my husband's birthday.
• 53:17
  You know, so I I can do it.
• 53:19
  I can do it.
• 53:20
  I would say he's definitely more the the more active person, but I would love to.
• 53:25
  So I feel like when she's a little older, I'd love to do like a Faroe Islands with her and have like the hike.
• 53:31
  So like we were thinking about doing it next year.
• 53:33
  I'm like, I think she's still maybe a little too young, just being like she'd be like three then.
• 53:36
  I wanna make sure she can really
• 53:39
  handle some of those more to your point, Corey, more challenging hikes if they if they get there.
• 53:44
  So I think no, she's a little adventurer though.
• 53:47
  So I think we definitely want to um yeah, have fun with it.
• 53:50
  just got the vibe from talking to you, Christina, both this time and last time we spoke that you were the...
• 53:54
  not that...
• 53:55
  I don't know, you had never spoken to your husband, so...
• 53:57
  I just got the vibe that you were also an active-y outdoor girl.
• 54:01
  I love that and I cannot wait to tell my husband that you think that about I can I'm you know, I'm I'm an active person, I'm a yogi, I'm things like that, but I would say I'm not
• 54:10
  like a rough and tough kind of girl to take anything.
• 54:14
  Okay, so before we wrap this up, and again, I know we wanted to focus on those four main Nordics, which again, for those who might have picked up on our conversation, Sweden,
• 54:22
  Norway, Finland, and Denmark.
• 54:24
  The other Nordic group is Greenland, Iceland, and the Faroe Islands.
• 54:29
  Christina, is there anything you just want to throw out there about those three other countries, just so we can give a true overview of the Nordics?
• 54:36
  No, I think if you're really into that outdoor nature hiking and things like that, those are your destinations.
• 54:43
  I think don't be afraid of a Greenland, you know, like don't be afraid, don't think that that is like you have to be, you know, yeah.
• 54:50
  the the most crazy active person.
• 54:52
  There are degrees, right?
• 54:53
  There are degrees and you can definitely experience that.
• 54:56
  I think that the nature there and the the culture there and community experience, the community tourism, if that's really something that you're passionate about experience.
• 55:04
  I think it's so alive and well in those destinations.
• 55:06
  The Faroe Islands is just completely just mind bending how that landscape's come about.
• 55:13
  It's just kind of you you can't really it needs to be seen to be believed.
• 55:16
  And and in Iceland as well.
• 55:18
  It's just it's
• 55:19
  They're they're tremendous and they all have something to offer.
• 55:21
  And that's why I love like individually all these countries are so special and have so many draws in their own right.
• 55:28
  But then when you combine them, like you get just so Yeah, you have everything in the Nordics.
• 55:33
  I mean, obviously I'm biased, but you truly have everything.
• 55:36
  You have amazing food, you have a gr great culture and community, you have, you know, people.
• 55:41
  It's just all of it.
• 55:42
  Design, music.
• 55:44
  Museums, it's just the list goes on and on and the nature of course isn't isn't obvious in all of the countries.
• 55:49
  So I have
• 55:50
  been to Iceland.
• 55:51
  So I absolutely can highly recommend Iceland, much more stark.
• 55:55
  You kind of, you know, lava field type, you know, aspect.
• 56:00
  You won't have the trees, like the massive forests and trees like you would at Norway.
• 56:04
  It's much more stark and absolutely the waterfalls and the geothermal activity.
• 56:09
  And when you're in Reykjavik, every home is powered by geothermal activity.
• 56:14
  It's like having electricity coming in your house.
• 56:16
  They have geothermal to heat it up, every single house.
• 56:19
  And they're really big on getting to the
• 56:21
  You know, swimming, the local swimming, indoor swimming spa treatments.
• 56:28
  Very cultural to spa
• 56:31
  proud.
• 56:33
  back to the sustainability side of things, uh Iceland is also another big proponent of that.
• 56:39
  believe that they are fully geothermal in their power regeneration and stuff like that.
• 56:45
  they are also very, very conscious of positive impacts on everything they do as well.
• 56:52
  um Now,
• 56:54
  I've been very spoiled and lucky over my lifetime.
• 56:56
  I've traveled to many, many countries and I've as you know, I, you know, sort of travel these days.
• 57:02
  I've want to go places I haven't been before and I've got like a top five list and on in that top five or two of the Nordics, one is Greenland and one is the Faroe Islands because
• 57:13
  I've been lucky enough to go to the other ones.
• 57:15
  So the Faroe Islands seem to me to be amazing.
• 57:18
  To me, it's a self-drive destination.
• 57:20
  Is that right, Christina?
• 57:22
  Yes, absolutely.
• 57:23
  You want to make sure that you can explore um there's there's so much to explore there and you want that freedom.
• 57:28
  So absolutely.
• 57:29
  Yeah.
• 57:30
  That's another reason why I wanna wait maybe another few years before I pick my daughter.
• 57:34
  Yeah.
• 57:35
  Yeah, and I think also, as you know, as a parent that, you you want to, and I had this conversation with our head of our African department, Robin, who just took her young kids,
• 57:44
  they were six and seven, I think at the time, down to South Africa.
• 57:48
  And the conversation was along the lines of, it's always worth it, of course, but did it ever cross your mind about their ages, them being too young to not remember it, all this
• 57:56
  type of thing.
• 57:57
  So yeah, to your point, think some of them as very special as the Faroe Islands, which it's easy to get to everyone.
• 58:02
  It's not hard to get to.
• 58:03
  No.
• 58:04
  Yeah, but it is one that's often probably not even on anyone's list, but should be.
• 58:08
  That might be one, as you say, when she's a bit older and she can maybe retain some of the memories of it.
• 58:14
  uh
• 58:15
  always challenge that too because people say that you know it's like why are you going this big trip with your with with her she's not gonna remember it's like but I'm gonna
• 58:21
  remember it right and it's still it's still informing her life too in in maybe not like such obvious ways but like she does remember what she's experienced and learned there.
• 58:31
  She might not have this like recall memory years from now, but it's still informing her life and it's like I have those memories.
• 58:36
  Maybe my husband had those memories and like that's something that's something that I think is totally valuable in its own right.
• 58:42
  So I'll get off that
• 58:43
  I agree.
• 58:45
  I agree with you 100 % because that was exactly what Bromman and I were talking about.
• 58:49
  And I said almost exactly the same thing that when we took our kids to Australia and even Ecuador, they were older than your young one.
• 58:58
  But I remember my wife at times being frustrated because they weren't listening to the guide or whatever it may be.
• 59:02
  it's, and I've spoken to them recently and they have some memories of those trips when they were younger.
• 59:09
  But to your point, and as I said to Bromman as well,
• 59:12
  because my kids are now in their mid twenties.
• 59:14
  Like it molds them.
• 59:17
  It sort of refines who they will become in time and why they might not to your point.
• 59:22
  Remember the exact thing.
• 59:24
  Every little trip will make them in my opinion as a father, the better child because they get to see and are exposed to differences, it Nordic differences, a Latin difference, an
• 59:37
  Indian difference.
• 59:38
  It makes them who they are.
• 59:40
  Absolutely agree.
• 59:41
  My grandparents, when I was little, five and six, they took us up to Yosemite.
• 59:44
  I grew up in California and we were all over Yosemite.
• 59:47
  My parents, my grandparents were fisher, you know, fishing in little streams and hiking in Yosemite and up to the falls.
• 59:54
  And I think that has an influence of why I like the land and the hiking.
• 59:58
  Yeah.
• 59:58
  Because when we were young.
• 1:00:00
  That's amazing.
• 1:00:01
  See that's the proof right there.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah, there you go.
• 1:00:03
  Did you do a lot of travel when you were younger, Christina, with your family?
• 1:00:06
  Yeah, like I was saying in the beginning, we did a lot of island destinations, which are amazing.
• 1:00:11
  I'm gonna I g I love that.
• 1:00:12
  Um but I feel like I I didn't really get the world kind of cracked open for me until I started my career in tourism.
• 1:00:19
  Again, South Africa was my first um tourist client.
• 1:00:23
  And I went there.
• 1:00:24
  It was like my first business trip when I was like twenty two years old, and I was like, wow, it just changed my life.
• 1:00:31
  So I feel like there's so much of the world to see.
• 1:00:34
  So I feel like getting into the beat
• 1:00:36
  experience a little bit of everything is such a privilege and such a gift if you're able to do it.
• 1:00:40
  And there's ways different ways to do it.
• 1:00:42
  You don't have to have all the money in the world to to travel, right?
• 1:00:44
  So I think that's always important for people to remember.
• 1:00:47
  Is most of your travel now, again, understanding you have a young one with you, is it Nordic based because of your connection or do you and your husband want to expand out?
• 1:00:57
  say that we haven't traveled too much since we had her.
• 1:01:00
  we went to like Oaxaca Me Oaxaca, Mexico um right before we had had her.
• 1:01:05
  We had gone to a delayed honeymoon in Greece and different islands in Greece when 'cause we got married in twenty twenty.
• 1:01:10
  So we had in like twenty twenty three we went to Greece, Naxos
• 1:01:14
  Paros and Sifnos, so a little bit of different islands in the cyclists.
• 1:01:18
  So we try to always be a little bit more off the beaten path and we love Costa Rica, as I was saying, Santa Teresa is one of our favorite places.
• 1:01:24
  So we try.
• 1:01:27
  Yeah.
• 1:01:28
  You've definitely seen different parts of the world like South Africa to Greece to Costa Rica and now the Nordics.
• 1:01:36
  Okay then so we've gone a bit over our normal sort of allotment of an hour but I think it was worthwhile because it's an amazing region don't say destination or it is a destination
• 1:01:44
  unto itself but really the region of the countries.
• 1:01:49
  Well you can say is make it happen.
• 1:01:50
  I put it off way too long.
• 1:01:51
  I thought it was too expensive.
• 1:01:52
  Uh just in my back of my mind.
• 1:01:55
  I was thinking, you know, well, well, you know, and you see other countries and you kinda price it out, but it absolutely wasn't.
• 1:02:00
  Once you book the trip through Go way, you have your set price and then you can go off from there.
• 1:02:05
  We added a ton while we were there.
• 1:02:07
  Day trips and you know, things were planned, but I specifically asked Go way for
• 1:02:13
  Free time, you know, the day is free 'cause we didn't really know the hikes as well.
• 1:02:16
  We didn't know what we wanted to do.
• 1:02:17
  So you can do that with Go Way.
• 1:02:19
  You can add a day where then you can hop on, you know, 'cause I know how I travel.
• 1:02:23
  So it just depends on how you travel.
• 1:02:24
  So it was much less expensive while you're in country.
• 1:02:28
  And um absolutely stunning.
• 1:02:30
  We did happen to go in July.
• 1:02:31
  I know off season.
• 1:02:32
  Our favorite time to travel is May and October.
• 1:02:34
  You know, the off season's in between and I know it's beautiful.
• 1:02:37
  you might get a little snow on the peaks in Norway, which I saw some pictures of.
• 1:02:41
  But um
• 1:02:42
  We loved it and it wasn't as near as crowded.
• 1:02:44
  You know, you hear those stories of Italy and Greece just being overrun in July and August.
• 1:02:48
  Norway was stunning and so was Sweden for crowds.
• 1:02:52
  It just you just didn't get that, you know, close in feel.
• 1:02:56
  So I highly, highly recommend it.
• 1:02:59
  Right, so there are a couple of important things to finish up on there for our travel partners out there that, as we have said in many of our podcasts, people are looking to
• 1:03:06
  get away from the crowds and the big things.
• 1:03:08
  So the Nordics is a very good option if people looking at Europe in general.
• 1:03:13
  Look at the Nordics because you will have lesser crowds.
• 1:03:15
  It'll still be crowded in the summer months, naturally, but it will be less so than other areas.
• 1:03:21
  And as Christina did and recommended earlier on in our conversation, go in the off seasons, which Corey just reinforced.
• 1:03:30
  Look at the shoulder seasons for some better pricing and beautiful scenery.
• 1:03:34
  Cause you know, the fall season in the Nordics is as beautiful as it is here up in sort of, you know, the Toronto, New England area as well.
• 1:03:42
  Beautiful changing of colors.
• 1:03:45
  And then as you come into the spring, you get the natural spring flowers and stuff happening as well.
• 1:03:51
  ah Our destination specialists are here to help you with any advice you have.
• 1:03:55
  Obviously you can call on your account managers, plural, but Corey's been there so he's got a lot of first-hand knowledge on that.
• 1:04:01
  ah We have programs for all the countries we discussed, Greenland, Faroe, Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland, be it North, be it South.
• 1:04:11
  Very nice, Don.
• 1:04:12
  You nailed that one.
• 1:04:13
  Impressive.
• 1:04:16
  Call you Professor Gole.
• 1:04:17
  That's why I it Professor Goa.
• 1:04:18
  Um, we have the skill here.
• 1:04:21
  You had the backup of your account managers out there.
• 1:04:23
  And of course you have the organization, the Nordics, which Christina represents.
• 1:04:27
  So they can help you with marketing training on the training front back to the professor Goa angle.
• 1:04:33
  The Goa Pro Travel Academy has modules on Greenland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, not Finland, but we do have one on the Arctic.
• 1:04:44
  which takes in the northern regions of Norway, Finland and Sweden as well, and Denmark's territory, so Greenland as well, up there as well.
• 1:04:53
  So there's lots of educational information there.
• 1:04:56
  Christina, I'm gonna let you finish off our podcast today.
• 1:05:00
  First question is, do you have training, support and or information for our travel partners out there via the Nordic website?
• 1:05:07
  And two, can you finish off with a farewell message to our travel partners about the Nordics?
• 1:05:12
  Yeah, if you need any training resources, find us at thenordics.travel.
• 1:05:16
  So we have contact information for all the individual country reps, and then we have links to their travel trade resources.
• 1:05:22
  A lot of them do have their own trainings.
• 1:05:25
  not all, but you will find everything you need in that one handy website.
• 1:05:28
  So that's the nordics.travel.
• 1:05:30
  Yeah, I think for me as just a final message is like focus on three things like seasonality.
• 1:05:37
  Think about how you can go on different seasons, as you mentioned, Don.
• 1:05:41
  Travel slower, right?
• 1:05:43
  So spend more time in a destination, even if you're, you know, Copenhagen is is on your bucket list.
• 1:05:48
  Like see where else in that region you can experience in that destination if you're not able to tack on another country.
• 1:05:54
  See what you can do in that one country in a little bit of a more thoughtful, expansive way, and then go beyond when you can.
• 1:06:01
  Go up, go beyond.
• 1:06:02
  It's very easy to do so as we talked about in this conversation.
• 1:06:05
  You know, use your capital cities as your gateway into so much more.
• 1:06:09
  This region is just ripe with so much to explore and discover.
• 1:06:13
  So don't be afraid to do it.
• 1:06:15
  Just a feel good country.
• 1:06:16
  I can I mean it makes you feel good to help this planet.
• 1:06:19
  I mean, it just feels good when you're traveling.
• 1:06:21
  When it heels feels good when you're talking to others about how they love to walk to work and it's just not all about, you know, I'm from Los Angeles, all about the car.
• 1:06:30
  But I just when you're traveling around after you get just immersed in the region, you just feel good about giving back to the planet as opposed to taking, you know, and that
• 1:06:41
  that just is a great
• 1:06:42
  A great little aspect that you don't kind of notice until you get back.
• 1:06:48
  Christine, just from the official point of view as well, guess...
• 1:06:54
  I got the warm and fuzzy.
• 1:06:57
  I I just think from from the Nordics perspective, I think
• 1:07:00
  realizing that sustainable travel doesn't have to make that travel harder or more difficult or more complicated.
• 1:07:06
  That it is really easy to do it, you know, travel, you know, at a different time of year, stay longer, combine multiple countries, give back to local communities, stay at local
• 1:07:16
  community-based tourism destinations, use those providers.
• 1:07:20
  It's it's very easy because you almost don't even have to think about it when you're in this region.
• 1:07:24
  So, but but still lean on on it when you do because it's it's meaningful.
• 1:07:28
  It it it has meaning, it has impact
• 1:07:30
  impact and you experience that first time when you're in this region.
• 1:07:33
  Yeah, I agree 100%.
• 1:07:35
  I think the impact aspect is really important because as we've all said throughout our conversation today, it's all around you.
• 1:07:43
  It's part of the DNA.
• 1:07:44
  So by going there and to Christina's where you have to go out of your way to be to make a positive impact because you are, it is part of the culture, the political outlook,
• 1:07:55
  everything to do in around the Nordics is based around sustainability as the thing to do.
• 1:08:01
  It is the right thing to do, but it's just what they do.
• 1:08:04
  Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  So on that note, as always, I'd like to thank our guests today.
• 1:08:08
  Corey coming all the way from sunny LA, Christina coming away from sunny New Jersey.
• 1:08:13
  Uh, I'm sitting in a basement, but it is sunny here in And as always to our travel partners out there.
• 1:08:20
  again, we've gone, Oh, what are we at an hour?
• 1:08:23
  At an hour travels.
• 1:08:25
  That's not bad, but I think it was worthwhile.
• 1:08:27
  It was very good information here from two people who,
• 1:08:31
  have traveled to these wonderful regions recently, and Christina, who is neck deep in the Nordics ah by representing them, and is neck deep in bringing up her young one and taking
• 1:08:43
  her young girl to the Nordics as well, at the tender age of 21 months.
• 1:08:47
  So kudos to you and your husband on doing that.
• 1:08:50
  And thank you for your time, both of you today, and as always out there, our travel partners for carving out an hour and a bit today of your time to listen in to us.
• 1:08:59
  And until next time.
• 1:09:01
  Safe travel.
• 1:09:02
  uh