Latest / Queer Voices / September 16th - Rose Morrigan is Mozart, Paul Hope's Jazzed-up Cabaret, News Wrap

Transcript

September 16th - Rose Morrigan is Mozart, Paul Hope's Jazzed-up Cabaret, News Wrap · Queer Voices

• 0:02
  Brett: You are listening to Queer Voices, a radio show on KPST 90.1 Houston, and a podcast that's been around since the 1970s.
• 0:12
  Brett: We focused on Houston's LGBTQIA Plus community.
• 0:16
  Brett: I am your host for this one, Brett Column.
• 0:18
  Brett: In a minute, I will talk with Rose Morgan about her role and updates at Red Room Arts opening this month.
• 0:26
  Brett: Rose is a transgender woman for speed.
• 0:49
  Brett: And finally, I am joined by After RCU is after my stuff to do a new scrap segment on the latest LGBTQIA plus stories.
• 1:02
  Brett: He's craft y'all because I know where he lives.
• 1:05
  Brett: Quick Voices start now.
• 1:11
  Brett: Hi there, this is Brett Cullum, and Rose Morgan is playing Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart in Rec Room Arts production of Amadeus, starting September 17th and running through October 10th.
• 1:24
  Brett: Now, this is the Peter Schaefer classic script, of course, but Rose has been a huge presence in Houston theater and was seen at stages playing Sherlock's Holmes.
• 1:34
  Brett: So she is no stranger to leading roles of cultural note.
• 1:38
  Brett: But this particular play is, it has one of the most coveted roles in theater.
• 1:43
  Brett: So congratulations, lady.
• 1:45
  Brett: This is huge.
• 1:46
  Brett: Thank you.
• 1:46
  Brett: Thank you.
• 1:47
  Brett: Yeah enough.
• 1:48
  Brett: I am so excited for you.
• 1:49
  Brett: And I wanted to just get this right off the bat.
• 1:52
  Brett: What does it mean to you to have a transgender woman playing Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is a conversation I've I've actually been having ever since I came out in college and started playing female and male roles on stage as a trans woman.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I I think it's interesting because a lot of people come in with a lot of expectations of how we should be presenting trans people on stage.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: However, when I look at theater, it's kind of this magical transformative space.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea of, you know, from from something like Hamilton, where it's like, what does it mean to kind of look at, you know, this uh these historical figures and and, you know, how does the lens change when we allow different performers to get to take this on?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've I think really anytime a trans person is on stage playing what is commonly known as this cisgender role, you're kind of just turning the coin and getting to see another facet of this character.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: With Mozart especially, Mozart's kind of this other in the script.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it is about Mozart's genius, but I think a lot of it is about how that genius and that ability to see the world in a different way alienates Mozart from their family, from their their loved ones, from everyone that they're trying to connect with in the world.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something as a trans woman that I can identify with very, very deeply is I I constantly feel like I am at at a length with people.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of nice because then I don't have to I, you know, it takes away the mystique of Mozart being this like untouchable genius, and then just gives me the opportunity to see Mozart as someone that just views the world through a different lens.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of think that that's what's magical about being trans in today's world is the ability to stop and and see yourself and see the world around you through a very different lens than most people are.
• 3:40
  Brett: Yes, absolutely.
• 3:41
  Brett: How much freedom did you feel that you had to reinvent this role?
• 3:45
  Brett: Because obviously you're competing with a pretty iconic performance if we look at some of the previous people.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think, and this is a a thing that I've I've known in many performers, which is don't look at those people whenever you start the process.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of blocked it all out of my mind.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: The movie is one of my favorites.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's I think it's a 10 out of 10 film, and and obviously so many iconic performers have have done Mozart on stage.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I I complete freedom.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I what I've really enjoyed about our process is being encouraged to bring our whole selves into these characters and kind of approach it from that direction.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: How would I feel in this situation?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is such a fantastic script that all the tools you need as a performer to build your version of the character are already there.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much richness in how Mozart talks about their past and talks about how they see the world that um I'm never stopping and thinking the one thing is the laugh.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I do have that laugh from the movie seared into my brain.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one where I definitely had to go, I'm not doing that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of have to think about it, but uh I I have, I think, found every piece as well as the laugh now in my own way.
• 4:54
  Brett: It's tough when you approach a role that is so iconic, especially one that has been stamped like that.
• 5:00
  Brett: It was a long time ago.
• 5:01
  Brett: So, and and we're doing it in rec room.
• 5:03
  Brett: And rec room is a very different kind of space.
• 5:05
  Brett: It's not one that I would assume would do this roll this play.
• 5:10
  Brett: It's it's a small, intimate, 60-seat theater, and you are right there.
• 5:16
  Brett: So are they changing the way that they're approaching this?
• 5:18
  Brett: Because it's a pretty epic play.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say the first big change is originally the cast is, I believe, 15 performers, and we're doing it with eight.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: But uh truly, it just like you know, approaching the role in my own way, I feel like since the text is so rich that I forget that it's a big show.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: I forget that it's a show that is, you know, commonly done with massive set pieces and and lots of non-speaking roles and and you know, all these flurries of movement because the text does allow for it to be such an intimate experience.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I I'm just so lucky to have such brilliant performers across from me that there's so much being shared in those looks that I think I I am glad that I have audience members that are going to be right there that get to capture every little piece of that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because if this was the grander production that it usually is, I think that so much of what makes our version of Amadeus so special would get lost.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because it even the set is it's very bare bones, it's very, you know, grounded.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in that grounded, we kind of get to let all this magic happen.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's very cool that the audience gets to get invited into it thanks to being so close and thanks to it being such an intimate space.
• 6:33
  Brett: So who else is in this cast with you?
• 6:35
  Brett: Tell me a little bit about who you're opposite of.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I I am across Luis Colindo and what a a force he is, a salari.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is definitely one of the performers where I feel spoiled in how rich his performance is and how much he's bringing to that role and how much he fills that very small space.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Maken a Marmalejo, who's playing Constanza, my wife, once again, just such a a deeply rich performance.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I was telling them just a few days ago that this is such a big play that you can kind of get lost in all the responsibility and all of the expectation.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I get to look across from, you know, the myself and see this performer that is just giving me everything that I need.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it's not a cop out to say a very human play, but that's I kind of get to look across and see these humans that are kind of taking on this insurmountable task with me.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that makes it all okay.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I can suddenly just snap back into what I need to be doing, and I can kind of let all these expectations and worries kind of slide right off my back.
• 7:42
  Brett: Is there anything that you the traditional interpretation of this that you immediately wanted to throw away?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: The film version of Mozart in Amadeus is kind of burned into my brain, that kind of fopish attitude that's still there, but I really wanted to take that idea of who Mozart was in a historical expectation and take that away and rediscover who is the human being under all of these compositions and such a tragic death at such an early age.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So much of Mozart's life can be blown up.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even the idea of a seven-year-old traveling around Europe and impressing kings and queens with these brilliant compositions.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: One of my sisters was very wonderful and sent me a collection of letters from Mozart and Mozart's family.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the most valuable ones I found are from Mozart's father during that time when Mozart was very young.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because while he's also composing for a king or queen, he's chatting up a border guard at a port and charming them and sitting in people's laps.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was this child that met people and instantly knew how to befriend them and be warm and be open.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to refine that kind of human element of Mozart and really shine a light on that.
• 8:51
  Brett: Is there anything that you want to do with his physicality or his sexuality?
• 8:55
  Brett: Yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I think one uninhibitedness in both of those aspects.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I joked to someone recently that if I'm in a show, I'm climbing, clambering, and crawling.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I did a lot of that in Miss Holmes and Miss Watson, and I'm doing a lot of that in this show.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but with Mozart, I think it's this general idea of freedom.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think especially even with I I hadn't realized how much the text focuses in on aspects of Mozart's sexuality, but I think not even necessarily in, you know, was he just straight or was he bisexual or anything like that?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I think Mozart is a very skinky individual in very odd ways in the play.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just another aspect of how Mozart saw the world differently.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think everything is a game.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so the idea that, you know, attraction is a game or or you know, being naughty, whether that is in a sexual nature or just in a social faux pas kind of way.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so much fun that comes out of my, you know, what I get to discover when I'm like, how do I play with this person?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, am I winning the game?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Am I losing the game?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Am I happy that they're playing, or am I mad that they're denying me the the chance to play?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think rediscovering that this is very much someone who was a child their whole life and uh how rich that made their life, but also how many problems they encountered because they kind of never let go of their child, child self.
• 10:20
  Brett: It's amazing to look at the childlike properties in there.
• 10:23
  Brett: And it's it's gonna be so much fun to watch you get to explore that, and I'm so excited about that.
• 10:28
  Brett: Do you play piano?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I actually come from uh I I'm from a family of ten, and every single member of that family in some way knows how to play an instrument, some of them very well, but my brain and hands do not connect in that way.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason I I stuck with acting.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I even that's a fun thing to talk about because without, you know, going into exact moments in the show, I think there's a fun part of this production where we're kind of focusing on the magic above that.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think any kind of grander production would have to be like, well, you know, let's get an actor that at the very least can copy these movements, and there's a little bit of that.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we kind of get these moments where we see how music is for Mozart inside.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, a piano is a is a very focal point of the play.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of love that I'm on top of it, below it, underneath it, jumping off of it, sleeping on it, but so rarely playing it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's a very indicative of how Mozart used it.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because for Mozart, it's not the showing off of playing, but more how this piano and uh how music kind of lives inside of Mozart.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's their language.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been kind of fun for me to get to let go of that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, am I hitting the right notes in this scene?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And more, what is Mozart feeling?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: How is that sense of play coming out of me?
• 11:48
  Brett: Yeah.
• 11:48
  Brett: Well, tell me a little bit about your identity and your journey.
• 11:52
  Brett: If somebody says, Who is Rose Morgan?
• 11:54
  Brett: How do you answer that one?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Rose Morrigan is an actor who has been doing theater my entire life.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I was, you know, at age six, running up to my parents, going, I just wrote a play, come sit down and watch me do it.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I kind of I view it as a blessing and a curse when you know exactly what you want to do from a very, very early age.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I know what I want to do to be happy.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I came out as trans my freshman year of college.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I believe I was one of, if not the first openly out trans performer at Sam Houston State University when I was going through the program.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of uh I don't want to say trailblazer, but I got to br I view myself as a conversation conversation starter.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: We we would do a play where you wouldn't necessarily think this role would be played by a trans woman, and I got to kind of bring it to directors and say, hey, I think that there is a lot that can come out of this play if you do cast a trans person.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of have viewed that as my goal ever since.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that there are massive strides happening, but theater kind of all over the country still pigeonholes trans people.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's either, you know, I think so often people limit themselves by thinking that trans people can only play trans roles.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I would love to see a trans Juliet and Romeo and Juliet.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to see uh a trans man in Death of a Salesman.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because these roles that you think are so archetypal, when a trans person's in that role, you're not portraying a truth.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're just kind of getting to see a new one.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that that's kind of my goal as a performer now is how can I find roles where I get to kind of discover truths that wouldn't get to be discovered unless a trans person was taking on this role.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Also, just being a trans woman in Houston, Texas, I think that I don't get a choice in whether or not I'm an activist.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am kind of constantly fighting for my place in the world, and I just see theater kind of as my avenue to do that.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think actor and activist kind of have to go hand in hand when you're trying to live your truth as a trans person in the South.
• 13:58
  Brett: It's a crazy proposition because it's definitely something that you bring that's unique to the table, but it shouldn't define your opportunities, obviously.
• 14:07
  Brett: And what I love about your career so far is you really have just been open to accepting things and playing with them and all of that.
• 14:17
  Brett: Because I I think that somebody, you know, as a trans identity might say, you know, hey, you cast me in this or that or whatever, and and and you kind of just roll with it.
• 14:26
  Brett: I mean, you really are just so adaptable about it.
• 14:28
  Brett: It's there's a fluidity to you as a performer that is just so wonderful.
• 14:33
  Brett: And I think that that's what the audience reacts to a lot of times, and that's why I'm so excited to see you in this particular script and this particular production, just because that's gonna be so neat to see that brought in.
• 14:44
  Brett: I I really was like when they announced the season for Wreck Remarts, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm a dais, like this old chestnut classic.
• 14:51
  Brett: How the heck is that gonna work?
• 14:52
  Brett: But then what I heard is when you were cast, I was like, all right, there, now I'm in.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I really do think that the script is what gets to activate that in me.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, I'm very, you know, I I I will take my flowers.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: But please do.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: As as I've read the script and as I've gone over it, I do think that so often with theater classics, we kind of cast them in stone and we go, this is what this play is about.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And as we've done this show and and as I keep doing it every single night in rehearsals, just so much raw truth in this play that applies to everything in my life, but especially art, and especially I think how we limit other people from being their true selves.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's been it's just the gift that doesn't stop giving.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I think about this play every single night when I go to sleep, and I think I'm gonna be thinking about it for months after we're done.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it's left a really resonating mark on me.
• 15:50
  Brett: Well, and I think that you captured the spirit of it right there.
• 15:53
  Brett: How we limit people just by putting these rigidity on them or saying that this has to be done this way and you have to be this way because you're that, and Mozart really challenged those things.
• 16:06
  Brett: And I think that you know, your community and the transgender community right now is challenging all of that.
• 16:12
  Brett: So it's it's neat and it's it's a wonderful, brilliant thing.
• 16:16
  Brett: I'm so excited about it.
• 16:17
  Brett: It is going to be September 17th through October 10th, 60 seat theater.
• 16:22
  Brett: So please book quickly.
• 16:24
  Brett: Please do.
• 16:25
  Brett: Micro Arts sells out.
• 16:27
  Brett: I'm it's it's great.
• 16:29
  Brett: But let me ask you this where do you go from here?
• 16:31
  Brett: What is next?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am very curious to see that myself.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I think without being too there's some there's a line in the play.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, you're being cativo, you're being a little bit naughty.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think I had kind of reached a point where I thought, okay, Houston's not for me.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that kind of for all the things we've been talking about, people have a lot of reservations about putting trans people on stage.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I think there's a lot of fear around, you know, not even from a bad place.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people are like, I think a lot of people who would have done Amadeus would have looked at a trans woman who came into the room and said, Well, I don't want to deny you your right to be yourself on stage.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not going to call you back.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I really hope that when people see me in this, it it not just open doors in the idea of like, wow, you were really good in Amadeus, get in this room.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I really hope it opens doors in a lot of casting directors and artistic directors' minds of the idea that no, call if that person is right for the role, call them back.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really hope that I just start getting into more rooms and and getting to show people that no matter what the role is, if if you think that person's right for it, then it doesn't matter whether or not, you know, their gender identity lines up with exactly what you need it to be.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think it there's a very interesting hump that a lot of people can't get over where with classical theater, you know, if if you're doing a Molière, if you're doing a a Shakespeare, we can automatically go, oh, I understand being kind of creative with your casting.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that I just get to get into more rooms where it's not just with that show, with those shows.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's more, you know, hey, we we think you're the right person for this.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why we're calling you in.
• 18:10
  Brett: It's something that I think, you know, as liberal of a space as people think theater is, I think that needs to be on the agenda.
• 18:17
  Brett: I think there's a lot of burrowing that still needs to happen.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um these conversations are are are coming up more and more and more.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I just hope that I am I am another drop in that pond that hopefully starts to get it to overflow and really make people have to start talking and thinking about these things.
• 18:35
  Brett: Yeah.
• 18:35
  Brett: Well, they'll start talking and they'll start thinking because Amadeus is coming on Wreck Room Arts, and you're the lead, of course.
• 18:42
  Brett: Congratulations.
• 18:43
  Brett: Can't wait to see you reflex.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:45
  Brett: Thank you.
• 19:05
  Brett: This is Brett Cullum.
• 19:06
  Brett: Paul Hope's cabaret performed at Ovations in Rice Village, is kicking off its new season with the best is yet to come, the Jazzy Broadway of Csy Coleman Part One.
• 19:17
  Brett: He's promising us baby Csy Coleman.
• 19:20
  Brett: It is going to run Monday, September 14th, the 21st, and the 28th over in Rice Village, the ovations location next to Main Street Theater.
• 19:28
  Brett: So welcome, Paul.
• 19:30
  Brett: Hello, hello.
• 19:31
  Brett: Yeah, you're one of those legendary actors and keeper of the great American songbook for these parts.
• 19:37
  Brett: So I'm excited to have you back to talk about all of this.
• 19:40
  Brett: First up, Sy Coleman.
• 19:41
  Brett: Who was he?
• 19:42
  Brett: What would I know of Psyche?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, he was a very prolific Broadway composer, although they only, because, you know, right around the time he hit, the movie musicals started cranking down.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So really the only one of his shows, even though he had lots of hits, the only one of his shows to be filmed was Sweet Charity with Shirley McLean, which had been a hit on Broadway with Gwen Verdon and directed and choreographed by Bob Fossey, which was the same with the film.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: But Sy Coleman got started as a jazz musician.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: He was a child prodigy pianist and concertized at a very early age.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then he began writing pop songs in the 50s and had quite a few hits.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Songwriters like I mean, like Tony Bennett and Peggy Lee and Frank Sinatra all recorded his songs.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so our first act is completely dedicated to his pop career pre-Broadway.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all pop songs.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And which means it'll zip by real fast because that means I don't have a lot to gas on about on the shows and what have you.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll I'll let you know once my person has sung it, I'll then let you know who recorded it.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not comparing all the the entire time they're singing.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the song The Best Is Yet to Come is a fairly famous song of his, which was a big hit, and Tony Bennett and Peggy Lee both recorded it.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: And also songs like It Amazes Me, I Walk a Little Faster, You Fascinate Me So.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: These are all songs that probably audiences, our audiences will go, Yeah, I've heard that before.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because you probably, if you've had been listening to an album of one of those singers, it's probably popped up.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: But they're not necessarily, and a lot of these songs charted, but they weren't at the tops of the charts.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: But they're they are fantastic, fantastic songs.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Liza Minnelli has recorded some of them.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: The wonderful Broadway singing actress Randy Graff, who was the original Fonteen on Broadway in La Miz, did an entire Cy Coleman CD.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And Recorded a lot of these songs.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, so he had this pop career and he he partnered with mostly two lyricists during this period.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: The first was a gentleman who had the unfortunate name of Joseph McCarthy, but he wasn't that Joseph McCarthy.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: He, you know, but he so he wrote the earliest of Coleman's hits, and then he partnered with somebody that he had a long partnership, which lasted into his Broadway years, with a lady named Carolyn Lee, L-E-I-G-H.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: She had written some lyrics for the Mary Martin Peter Pan.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so they part they wrote some pop songs together.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then in 1959, they debuted on Broadway with Lucille Ball's one and only Broadway musical called Wildcat, and which the opening number, Hey Look Me Over, has become a standard.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: People know that song.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And Wildcat probably would have run longer had Ball run longer.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: But she was not someone who had the stamina for eight shows a week and actually one night fainted on stage.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, and uh and she had money in the show.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: She was one of the producers.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: So Wildcat ran about seven months.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as Lucy was in it, people were, you know, people were lining up and and the score got good reviews.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: But then their next piece was a vehicle for Sid Caesar called Little Me.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And Little Me was a book by Patrick Dennis, who wrote Anti-Mame.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And this was his second book, which was a satire on movie star autobiographies, yeah, you know, as told to autobiography.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's about a very buxome but talent-free movie star and her memoirs.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And well, her name is Belle Poitrine, which translated means big chest.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: And but to do the musical, and they got Neil Simon to write the script.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: They got Sid Caesar to play all the men in her life.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: So he played seven characters in one evening.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so Little Me was a bigger hit than Wildcat, but also Caesar had some addiction issues.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so he actually passed out on stage one, you know, one night.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it was a tough season because a lot of other really big shows were opening the same season.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if Little Me was a hit until those shows opened.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was a bigger hit.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: It had more of an audience, but then those other shows sort of stole stole the audit the audience from it.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: But it also threw off a couple of standards like I've got your number and real live girl, which I my first time to hear I've got your number was Dick Van Dyke and Mary Tyler Morris singing it on the Dick Van Dyke show, doing a floor show dressed as convicts with a chain, you know, between them on the, you know, and with the prisoner's number across their chest.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: I've got your number.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: But that is from that song, it's from Little Me.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And once again, it was recorded by people like Bennett and Peggy Lee and Frank Sinatra.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then his biggest hit in the the evening that we're doing, which was 65, was Sweet Charity.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And which by the way, Bob Fossey had choreographed Little Me, and then he developed Sweet Charity as a vehicle for his wife, Gwen Verdon.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And there you have a whole plethora of standards like I'm a brass band, If my friends could see me now, Big Spender, all of which we will be doing.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: But my musical director, Stephen Jones, has been talking about, he said, My God, his chords are so unusual because he's the jazz thing.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of from a jazz background.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, at least initially, the only score we had for the charity songs was the actual score that you get when you rent the show, when you get the rights to the show.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's in manuscript.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's not standard printing, it's in manuscript.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it is very difficult to read.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And Stevens says, I feel like I'm losing my mind whenever I play I'm a brass fan.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even sure if I'm playing the right notes because it's so hard to read because the way his chords are so crunchy.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're all about, you know, the notes are so on top of each other.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: But he was, you know, now just for your the audience's sake, I'll rattle off his some of his later shows.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll also have some more context for his career.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: He also wrote I Love My Wife, Barnum on the 20th Century, The Will Rogers Follies.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think his last Broadway show was a show called The Life that was came out the same year as Titanic.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: And once again, and none of these shows were flops.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Barnum was a was a huge hit on the 20th century, was a hit, would have probably run longer if they hadn't cast Madeline Kahn in the lead.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: She she lasted about a month, but she couldn't do eight shows a week.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was Judy Kay's big break.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, she was the understudy who got to take over the star part.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, this is what we'll be doing in a in a future Psych Holman show.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: But in the current show, the the songs are so pop friendly.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Even the theater songs are pop friendly, are things that supposedly when Peggy Lee ran into him and said, What are you working on?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I'm working on this show called Sweet Charity.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm right now I'm working on this.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's just a little group number.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, Well, what what?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Play it for me.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Well, it's called Big Expender, but it's a group song.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's nothing you'd be interested in.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: She says, Play me some of it.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: And he played a little bit of it and she said, Send me a demo.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then she recorded it and it was a hit.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: She had a hit.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we're so we're, you know, we're now tipping into the 60s with our cabarets.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've gotten about everything out of the 40s and 50s that we can get, including Walt Disney.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: So now we're steaming ahead with the with the 60s.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: And 1959-1960 was Syke Holman's first big year on Broadway.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: And but he sure had a lot of fantastic songs before that.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And even one, he continued to write songs for movies that weren't movie musicals.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like another hit song that Peggy Lee had was a song called Pass Me By, which was the big song in Father Goose with Carrie Grant and Leslie Kirone.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that became a hit.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's an Uptempo song.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that wound up b getting a lot of radio play, you know, as well.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: So so at any rate, that's we're having a great time with, I mean, and great lyrics, Carolyn Lee.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Carolyn Lee was a bit of a crazy person when when they were working on Little Me, there was a number that wasn't working that they kept trying to get it to work, and it just was not happening.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so they decided to cut it.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Bob Fossey and Abe Burroughs, the director, decided to cut it.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And she ran outside the theater and hailed a policeman and brought him in and asked him to arrest them.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: She was making a citizen's arrest.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, he's like, Lady, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand this at all.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: But could I have a couple of free tickets to the show?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think after Little Me, she and Sy Coleman decided they'd best go their separate ways.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And which another thing, Swig Charity has incredible lyrics by the legendary Dorothy Fields.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the first show that she did with Sy Coleman.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: So just in but Carolyn Lee was no slouch in the lyric department herself.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So just so there's some really great lyrics on display in these songs.
• 29:34
  Brett: Yeah, no, it's definitely an exciting start to the 60s for sure.
• 29:39
  Brett: So tell me a little bit, who are your singers uh this time, Al?
• 29:42
  Brett: Who all is coming on board?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a couple of new people that I haven't worked with before who are quite wonderful, Chaney Moore and Lizzie Cooper.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And they are both just, you know, wonderful.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then I've got Tamara Siler is back, and she's doing two of the three Mondays.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: She has to go out of town for the third Monday.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: So Lizzie and Lizzie and Cheney are taking her solos for that for that third Monday.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then my men are Pantelis Karastamatis, our our Greek matinee idol, and uh Richard Paul Fink is back, our big baritone, and then Michael Shavani and Jude Iber, who are my my my young'uns, you know.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: So they get to do some of the the lighter weight things that you know that are will benefit from their particular personalities.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, so it's a it's a real good group.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, you know, and having some new some new voices on board is always exciting.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and they're having a great time learning this stuff.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: With particularly with Lizzie, I said she was singing on the other side of the tracks from Little Me.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, This should be an audition song for you.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: You need to keep this in the book because she was just knocking it out of the ballpark, you know.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, and but you know, there's the there's another song that you might have heard because it Barbara Streisand recorded it early in her career, When in Rome, I do as the Romans Do.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: That was on her people album, you know, with the one with her back to the camera on the beach.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I first heard that.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's Psych Holman and Carolyn Lee.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so Cheney is doing is doing that number.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's uh, you know, it's just a real good group.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And Stephen Jones, as a musical director, has done some lovely group arrangements on on our our group numbers.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're doing The Best Is Yet to Come is a group number, and Hey Look Me Over from Wildcat is a group number, and he's doing that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then there is a song called from early in Coleman's career called The Riviera that was cut from a musical review he was writing songs for.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: And before he could recycle it into another show, the cabaret diva Mabel Mercer grabbed it and it became a signature song of hers.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so Stephen has done this gorgeous group arrangement for the singers for of the Riviera.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's our opening number.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have a very sort of chic, sophisticated opening number for the show before we, you know, send it all down the toilet, you know.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: So before we start rolling around in the mud, you know.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: So so musically, I think it's gonna be a very strong show.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: I like to think all of our shows are strong musically, but they're particularly good when Steven's at the helm.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: He makes he makes sure all the all the T's are crossed and the I's are dotted.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm even gonna sing Witchcraft, though, which was another side.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the only thing I'm gonna do this time.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've got I'm directing another show, and you know, and I'm just like, no, I don't have time to learn any group vocals, so I will I'll leave it to you young people, you know.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: So but I do I already knew Witchcraft.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've sung that song before, and I thought, okay, I think this will be safe, you know.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: So and we and and we've got to have that on the program because that was such a big hit for for Coleman.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 33:02
  Brett: Yeah.
• 33:02
  Brett: And these are the thing that's cool about your cabarets is they're on Mondays.
• 33:06
  Brett: So you can get these people that are usually in shows.
• 33:10
  Brett: I mean, these are high-demand people.
• 33:11
  Brett: So Monday, September 14th, 21st, and 28th is going to be your chances to see Psych Coleman.
• 33:18
  Brett: And then you've got some other stuff coming up, like a Christmas one, and I'm very excited to.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: We have a Christmas show.
• 33:25
  Brett: Yeah.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's the the Christmas show.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm calling it Christmas Night, the supporting cast.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying to find as many songs about the shepherds and the wise men as I can, whether you know, serious or not.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're back in February for our first, it's a kind of a split.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, next year in 2027, we're starting off with two split cabarets, in that February is the beginning of Sondheim's career, Stephen Sondheim's career, and the end of Richard Rogers' career.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they intersect with Do I Hear a Waltz, where Sondheim wrote lyrics to Richard Rogers' music.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll be doing songs from both of those gentlemen.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then in May, I'm calling that show The Men That Got Away.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: So one act is Harold Arlen, who is the gentleman who wrote Over the Rainbow, among many other things, Paper Moon, That Old Black Magic, etc.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: So he wrote The Man That Got Away for Star is Born for Judy Garland during this period.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then a gentleman who had quite a few Broadway hits, but it's completely forgotten today.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: His name's Harold Rome.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he wrote Wish You Were Here, Fanny, Destri Rides Again, and I Can Get It For You Wholesale, which was Barbara Streisand's Broadway debut.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he even, though it did not come to Broadway, wrote the musical of Gone with the Wind, which I actually performed in at Theater Under the Stars when I was much younger.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, but what's significant, particularly about Harold Rome, is that two of those shows were set in Jewish milieus, and this was pretty fiddler on the roof.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: So he tackled, he had some significant musicals with Jewish summer camp for Jewish singles, like in The Poconos.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's the show famously that had a swimming pool on stage, you know.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why they couldn't take it out of town because they couldn't travel with a swimming pool, you know.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that's our our show in in May.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful songs, you know.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great lineup.
• 35:26
  Brett: Yeah, I mean it's it's amazing.
• 35:28
  Brett: And if if anybody wants to get tickets, Paul Hope Cabarets, that's a plural, dot org is the website, and you can look at it.
• 35:37
  Brett: And there's two seating options.
• 35:38
  Brett: You've got tables, and then you've got a really nice balcony.
• 35:42
  Brett: And the balcony is great because you can sit up there single seats and you're close to the bar.
• 35:46
  Brett: You don't have to Yeah, the bar is upstairs, so you don't have to go very far.
• 35:50
  Brett: Yes.
• 35:51
  Brett: And it's great.
• 35:52
  Brett: And in ovation's is such a cool space.
• 35:55
  Brett: I just love it.
• 35:56
  Brett: It feels like an old jazz club, perfect for Cyc Coleman.
• 36:00
  Brett: I mean, come on, you couldn't ask for anything better for that venue to put that in there.
• 36:06
  Brett: So definitely a good one.
• 36:07
  Brett: So again, September 14th, 21st, and 28th, always on Mondays.
• 36:11
  Brett: It is the best is yet to come, the Jazzy Broadway of Cy Coleman with a lot of his pop hits as well from Paul Hope's Camera, which always just amazing talent.
• 36:21
  Brett: And we get great insight into him and the songs as well from you.
• 36:26
  Brett: So there we go.
• 36:27
  Brett: Fantastic.
• 36:28
  Brett: We try.
• 36:29
  Brett: You succeed.
• 36:29
  Brett: You succeed, definitely.
• 36:31
  Brett: Good.
• 36:31
  Brett: All right.
• 36:32
  Brett: Well, thank you so much.
• 36:33
  Brett: We will talk to you a little later, I'm sure.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you sure will.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 36:46
  Deborah: This radio program, Clear Voices, has existed since the 1970s on KPFT.
• 36:55
  Deborah: We have this little crew of folks working every week to produce what's no longer unique because we're almost mainstream now.
• 37:06
  Deborah: But we're still an important voice that might not otherwise get heard because it's not on that many places.
• 37:14
  Deborah: So KPFT is very important to give voices to those who might not otherwise have voices.
• 37:22
  Deborah: So as Glenn always says, you participate by listening, but you should also participate by supporting the station.
• 37:32
  Deborah: So please go to kpft.org and make your donation right away.
• 37:42
  Brett: Hi there, it's Brett Cullum, and I am joined by author R.
• 37:45
  Brett: Lee Ingalls.
• 37:46
  Brett: And we are going to do a news rap section for this past week.
• 37:49
  Brett: A lot of things happening out there in the country and the world.
• 37:53
  Brett: So yeah.
• 37:54
  Lee: Yeah, yeah, sadly.
• 37:56
  Lee: It's uh well, some good news and bad news.
• 37:57
  Lee: And we'll we'll start with the bad news first, I guess.
• 38:00
  Lee: So one of the big events or one of the big stories last week was the federal pressure on hospitals providing transgender youth care.
• 38:07
  Lee: Uh, it appears to be intensifying.
• 38:09
  Lee: And even in those areas where it is more supportive of transgender youth care, because most of them are funded federally, they do have an impact on whether or not they're going to provide those services and if so, how much?
• 38:22
  Lee: So specifically, they're talking about the puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and surgical interventions to minors.
• 38:29
  Lee: That's where the targets are.
• 38:30
  Lee: But one of the hospitals, Mount Sinai, uh, was also dedicated or has dedicated$2 million to medical care for people the government says experienced harmful consequences from the treatment they received as minors.
• 38:44
  Lee: So significance, it goes well beyond the individual hospitals, even when this, well, like I said, the states that permit it, they're pulling back only because of the federal funding could be pulled away from them.
• 38:54
  Brett: The biggest thing about this is Mount Sinai is in New York, which is a little bit more liberal than Texas.
• 39:00
  Brett: Yes.
• 39:01
  Brett: And we saw this happen with Texas Children's Hospital.
• 39:04
  Brett: We've also seen it with the Cleveland Clinic and Connecticut Children's Hospital.
• 39:08
  Brett: So they're forcing these children's hospitals to establish these federal programs where they will not get federal funding if they do puberty blockers or do any kind of gender-affirming care for pediatric patients, and they have to dedicate a certain amount of money to do people that says that they were transitioning when they didn't want to.
• 39:30
  Brett: I mean, that's or that they had some kind of like thing where they've decided that they don't want to anymore.
• 39:35
  Brett: It's really kind of crazy to me.
• 39:37
  Lee: I know because it's assuming it's kind of a slippery slope, but the point at the very foundation of it, I think, is who do you want controlling those decisions?
• 39:46
  Lee: Do you want the parent and the child and the doctor in charge of those decisions working together?
• 39:51
  Lee: Or do you want the government to legislate how this takes place?
• 39:56
  Lee: And that's what we're seeing happen.
• 39:58
  Brett: Well, and I think it echoes the abortion thing.
• 40:00
  Brett: When did the government have a right to come in and tell us what we can and cannot do with our bodies, with medical procedures, what you can do as treatment?
• 40:08
  Brett: The government is not made up of psychiatrists and doctors and people that know better what would be right for their patients.
• 40:16
  Brett: So I don't understand why they're trying to do this other than it's an issue right now.
• 40:21
  Lee: And from my point, you'll see you'll hear me say this many times today on the stories that we're seeing hitting the headlines, and that is they're finding wedge issues that getting people to vote for a politician or political whatever.
• 40:34
  Lee: And this is one of those items they found that that it is a wedge issue.
• 40:37
  Lee: People will go to the voting booth just because of this reason, and what a shame that is, because there are people that actually will suffer a consequence from this.
• 40:45
  Brett: Well, and it's it's projecting an image almost that these kids are transitioning without the support of their parents and their doctors, which they are.
• 40:53
  Brett: I mean, that's that's the whole point.
• 40:55
  Brett: And so it's really it's really strange.
• 40:58
  Brett: Another transgender issue is that the Department of Health and Human Services released a report that they did on their own, which associated transgender people and gender-affirming healthcare with left-wing authoritarianism and political violence.
• 41:15
  Brett: Now, this is crazy because this is your US Department of Health and Human Services.
• 41:20
  Brett: I mean, first of all, what does it have to do with health?
• 41:24
  Brett: And secondly, it wasn't peer-reviewed by any scientists, it wasn't published by any credible scientific publication or anything.
• 41:32
  Brett: I mean, this was like just a study done by this department, and it's like, why is suddenly the government and science?
• 41:39
  Lee: Right.
• 41:39
  Lee: Well, well, okay, you're saying science, like there actually was some involved.
• 41:43
  Lee: Yeah, so it it didn't go through the normal vetting process that any scientific uh discoverers or decision would be made.
• 41:52
  Lee: It's being used and being presented as a way to establish an ideology rationale for the government policy toward LGBTQ plus uh Americans.
• 42:02
  Brett: Yeah.
• 42:03
  Brett: And it's it's really wild.
• 42:05
  Brett: And you think about all of these issues, and I know that you and I, when we grew up, we had parents that maybe were trying to do the best for us at the time that they were in, but we both ended up like I think that you ended up in treatment for just your identity.
• 42:21
  Lee: Yeah, well, when I was young, a child, it being gay was still considered an illness and something that was treatable.
• 42:28
  Lee: And my parents didn't do the wrong thing on purpose.
• 42:33
  Lee: They did what they were told by the experts of that day to treat their son the best that they could.
• 42:39
  Lee: They wanted the best for me, so I have to give them that.
• 42:42
  Lee: But at the end of the day, as an adult, we now knew no, those processes and treatments, first of all, they didn't work, thank goodness.
• 42:52
  Lee: And secondly, it never was an illness.
• 42:55
  Brett: Yeah.
• 42:55
  Brett: Well, I got in kind of a different phase of it because I was suggested to go to conversion therapy, which was religious based, even though they said it was psychologically based, which it really wasn't.
• 43:06
  Brett: It was religion, let's face it.
• 43:07
  Brett: Yeah.
• 43:08
  Brett: And it was very unhealthy.
• 43:09
  Brett: And a lot of the people that were running those programs were actually identified as part of the community themselves, and that later came out.
• 43:16
  Brett: And we're trusting those people to actually convert people.
• 43:18
  Brett: And it just reminds me with this whole transgender issue, that they're trying to make it look like it's some sort of illness or something's wrong, or we need to treat this, or we need to not treat it in the case of this, because obviously they're saying not to treat gender dysphoria, but we know that these teenagers have the largest rates of suicide out of any group.
• 43:41
  Brett: And you know, that LGBTQ plus teenagers are really high in that.
• 43:47
  Brett: So it just it seems like they're really ignoring what the real problems are here.
• 43:51
  Brett: Yeah, and exactly it's just crazy.
• 43:53
  Brett: And speaking of real problems, yeah, yeah.
• 43:56
  Lee: What a crazy weekend development in terms.
• 44:00
  Lee: Turkey.
• 44:00
  Lee: So on Saturday, September 12th, the Turkish court ordered access uh restrictions on websites and social media accounts of a number of LGBTQ plus organizations, media outlet activists, human rights defenders.
• 44:15
  Lee: Those are just a few.
• 44:16
  Lee: Yeah, and they raided bars, they went into homes, confiscated computers, and and yeah.
• 44:24
  Lee: They ended up arresting like 40-some people was the initial report, or taking them into detain them.
• 44:34
  Lee: Not all of them were kept, some of them were and some were not, but they yeah, they took them all in.
• 44:39
  Brett: Yeah.
• 44:40
  Brett: Well, it looks like they thought at least 47 people had been detained as of Sunday.
• 44:45
  Brett: Right.
• 44:45
  Brett: But there was a broader investigation that involved 162 suspects, nine associations, 13 businesses across 15 provinces.
• 44:53
  Brett: I mean, it was basically just a crackdown.
• 44:55
  Brett: There was a lot of raids, and it just seems really crazy.
• 44:59
  Brett: It was the government's operation, they used a Turkish term that meant my family is safe.
• 45:05
  Brett: And Justice Minister King Gurlik said his actions were intended to protect children and the institution of the family.
• 45:10
  Brett: So again, we have this whole thing about the community being dangerous to children and families.
• 45:16
  Brett: I mean, it seems like a very weird thing there.
• 45:19
  Lee: You know, being gay in Turkey is not illegal.
• 45:22
  Lee: So what they're saying is their focus is more on obscenity, prostitution, drugs, other criminal activity.
• 45:28
  Lee: That's how they were uh able to get this done.
• 45:31
  Brett: Well, they're basically making it illegal to be that identity by cracking down on all of this and finding them in criminal.
• 45:43
  Lee: The UN Special Uh Reporteur on Human Rights Defenders called the detained solely for legitimate human rights to be released.
• 45:53
  Lee: Yeah.
• 45:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:54
  Lee: It was a violation of their rights, so they should be released.
• 45:57
  Brett: And uh she was appalled that there was harassment and repression of the activists and the organizations.
• 46:03
  Brett: And of course, I mean that's it's wild.
• 46:05
  Brett: You know, Turkey has restricted pride marches and LBGTQ demonstrations ever since like 2015.
• 46:12
  Brett: Right.
• 46:12
  Brett: They have not had any, and there's a lot of rhetoric from the government, and it's just been increasing.
• 46:17
  Brett: But this actually goes so much further than just breaking up a pride event.
• 46:21
  Lee: It did.
• 46:22
  Brett: Yeah.
• 46:38
  Lee: It's crazy.
• 46:39
  Brett: Yeah, they were blocking sites actually inside Turkey from getting on the net.
• 46:42
  Brett: And the European Pride Organizers Association uh described it as an unprecedented wave of coordinated measures against LGBTQ plus civil society in Turkey.
• 46:51
  Brett: And then basically it is.
• 46:53
  Brett: You're going after these people that are still just living their lives and uh going into that.
• 46:59
  Brett: So it's it's a really hard stance by the government, and it it really looks like it's a crackdown on our society, the community society, LGBTQIA plus people, really strong, and you haven't seen that around the world in many years.
• 47:16
  Brett: Yeah.
• 47:17
  Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:17
  Lee: Well, that's all was reported over the weekend, and they didn't update.
• 47:21
  Lee: Uh, they're saying that there were 16 people have been jailed ending trial, you know, following the crackdown.
• 47:27
  Lee: They're still arresting people.
• 47:28
  Lee: In fact, they did later this afternoon as well.
• 47:30
  Brett: Yeah.
• 47:31
  Brett: And this is just as of Monday this week.
• 47:33
  Brett: So there have been a different people that are part of this whole My Family a Safe operation.
• 47:38
  Brett: And it just seems really crazy.
• 47:41
  Brett: It just keeps rising.
• 47:42
  Brett: And I'm sure that we'll see that more and more as this whole thing develops.
• 47:46
  Brett: So it's it's a really shocking escalation, basically repression and taking this out.
• 47:51
  Brett: And it just seems like uh it's discrimination led by the state.
• 47:56
  Brett: And you worry that maybe this could happen here almost because you look at some of the things that we just talked about with the transgender policies, and it feels like state-led discrimination, but this is on an even higher level.
• 48:07
  Brett: I mean, this is the entire community and going after a whole group and and blocking the internet and doing all of these extreme authoritarian things.
• 48:17
  Brett: So think that people are being held pending trial that's more than just a raid or breaking something up.
• 48:23
  Brett: And I don't think you're gonna see the arrest stop anytime soon.
• 48:27
  Lee: So yeah, no, no, we'll continue to follow this story and and provide updates as we get them.
• 48:32
  Brett: Yeah, well, and then I thought what was interesting is we have some friends that went on an Atlantis events uh chartered cruise.
• 48:38
  Brett: It was on the Virgin Voyages Scarlet Lady back in July of this past summer, and Turkey did not let them dock.
• 48:45
  Brett: No.
• 48:45
  Brett: And they actually had to kind of float around the Greek islands because actually Egypt did the same thing.
• 48:50
  Brett: They refused this boat to dock from into Alexandria.
• 48:55
  Brett: So I think it's interesting that an LGBTQIA plus group, knowing that pride marches have been squashed in Turkey since 2015, would pick Turkey as a destination and think that like 7,000 LGBTQ plus men are gonna be safe.
• 49:12
  Lee: Yeah, I think they picked an itinerary that already existed.
• 49:15
  Lee: They just changed the guests that were on the ship itself.
• 49:19
  Lee: So that's what I'm thinking that this is uh an itinerary that they that particular cruise line sails all the time.
• 49:28
  Lee: Well, they just happen to be all gay at this point.
• 49:30
  Brett: It is a charted boat.
• 49:31
  Brett: I mean, Atlantis Events is actually taking the taking over the boat.
• 49:35
  Brett: You would think they would have that.
• 49:36
  Brett: I know that we usually go with groups that are just present on a normal cruise and we just kind of do like a group of friends all on one cruise, and we've been in ones where it's hundreds of us on a traditional cruise ship, and we've gone to Jamaica.
• 49:51
  Brett: And I thought, well, why are we going to Jamaica as a big gay group?
• 49:55
  Brett: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:56
  Brett: It's just really wild to think about what's happening with Turkey.
• 49:59
  Brett: And and definitely I I'm not sure I would want to travel there, which is a shame because it's a beautiful country, and I've been there before, and I I think it's one of the the great experiences, but I just politically I'd be very scared.
• 50:12
  Brett: Yeah.
• 50:13
  Lee: So yeah, well, we we try to avoid that.
• 50:15
  Lee: Even on those ones that we go on where they do stop in area in the places like Jamaica, we know we're not safe there, and we're not we know we're not welcome there.
• 50:21
  Lee: So we don't get off the ship.
• 50:23
  Lee: We stay on the ship.
• 50:24
  Lee: Then we have yeah, Texas Senates puts the transgender rights squarely into the campaign.
• 50:29
  Lee: This is one of those, again, wedge issues that uh it has been decided that this is something that if you talk about and and you talk about it enough, it will get voters into the voting booth to vote your direction.
• 50:41
  Lee: So we've got uh the two candidates for the Senate, the U.S.
• 50:45
  Lee: Senate seat, Ken Paxton and James Telarico.
• 50:49
  Lee: And they're trying to make this more a defining candidate issue.
• 50:55
  Lee: Part of the issue that I have with this is who are we allowing to create the narrative on this?
• 51:01
  Lee: And why are we allowing them to do that?
• 51:03
  Brett: Well, it's particularly problematic when you see attack ads.
• 51:06
  Brett: Ken Paxton's ads have just been wild, showing things like just these immediate transitions and saying that they're not for you, they're for they, them.
• 51:15
  Brett: And I just it just it's cringe.
• 51:18
  Brett: They're trying to make this a huge issue for Republicans, and it just seems so unfair.
• 51:25
  Brett: I I can't imagine being a transgender person and seeing these ads and realizing that my life, my you know, identity is becoming a political sticking point to get voters to vote against my interests.
• 51:42
  Brett: It seems like the this particular party seems to want to go against any kind of progress and to accepting anybody and letting them make their own decisions.
• 51:50
  Brett: They're continuing to make this an issue.
• 51:53
  Brett: It's almost like this happens mysteriously.
• 51:56
  Brett: Yeah.
• 51:57
  Brett: And it's not a progression, and it's a whole uh realization on the part of the child.
• 52:01
  Brett: And a lot of times children have the support of their parents.
• 52:04
  Lee: Um, not always, but sometimes.
• 52:06
  Lee: The problem is that there are legislatures or politicians that would like to legislate themselves into that space and dictate what happens there.
• 52:15
  Brett: Well, and another another sad note, Bob Mackey passed away Monday, September 14th.
• 52:20
  Brett: He had a very bad case of pneumonia, and he was in Palm Springs.
• 52:24
  Brett: The official Instagram post from his account basically said is with a heavy heart that we share the news that Mr.
• 52:30
  Brett: Bob Mackey passed away today.
• 52:32
  Brett: He lived his 87 years to the fullest, fulfilling his dream, being a fashion and costume designer, which is all he ever wanted to do.
• 52:40
  Brett: His genius and extraordinary designs will live on forever, continuing to bring beauty into this world.
• 52:45
  Brett: And certainly incredible loss.
• 52:47
  Brett: Yes.
• 52:48
  Brett: Just he's dressed all of our favorite women.
• 52:50
  Brett: Oh, yeah.
• 52:51
  Brett: Cher, Diana Ross, Tina Turner.
• 52:54
  Brett: Yeah, Maryland Row.
• 52:55
  Brett: All of that.
• 52:56
  Brett: I mean, it's just I can't imagine the world without Balk Backie.
• 52:58
  Brett: Barbie.
• 52:59
  Brett: Yes.
• 53:00
  Brett: Well, a few times with Barbie, actually.
• 53:02
  Brett: Yeah.
• 53:02
  Brett: She may have been one of his biggest clients, but I always associate him with Cher for some reason.
• 53:08
  Lee: Yeah, well, he did a lot of hers.
• 53:10
  Lee: Actually, he did the reason the the way he got to Cher was through Carol Burnett.
• 53:15
  Lee: Oh, wow.
• 53:16
  Lee: He did Carol Burnett's costumes for her show, and when the Sonny and Cher show started, Cher had to wear one of uh Carol Burnett's costumes.
• 53:25
  Lee: And that's how she got with the Bob.
• 53:27
  Lee: She got with Bob Mackey.
• 53:29
  Lee: Or at least that's the story that I read.
• 53:31
  Lee: And I know that that team of that's true or not, I don't know.
• 53:33
  Brett: Drove censors crazy because Bob used this nude illusion, so it looked like she was just practically naked, even though she was covered.
• 53:40
  Brett: Yeah.
• 53:40
  Brett: Completely.
• 53:41
  Brett: Wow.
• 53:42
  Brett: What an amazing thing to have a gay man whose muse is all of these fabulous women and making them look better.
• 53:50
  Brett: Yes.
• 53:50
  Brett: I mean, that's just talk about making the world a more beautiful place.
• 53:54
  Brett: Definitely gonna be somebody that you miss.
• 53:56
  Lee: Yeah.
• 53:56
  Lee: So appreciate it.
• 53:58
  Lee: Well, now that we've given all the depressing news, what about some good news?
• 54:04
  Brett: Well, actually, uh, we've got one coming out of Pearl Bar.
• 54:07
  Brett: They had the first LGBTQIA plus nerd convention that was held September 6th, and they brought together more than 20 vendors, gaming collectibles, the whole community.
• 54:16
  Brett: It's not a huge national story or anything, but it's kind of fun to think about that even when faced with a lot of political opposition, our community continues to gather.
• 54:28
  Brett: Yes.
• 54:28
  Brett: We create, we play, we build relationships, all with all of the stuff politically going on around us.
• 54:35
  Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:36
  Lee: And this past week we had an opportunity to drive by Pearl Bar's new location, which I wasn't sure where it was.
• 54:42
  Lee: And congratulations and congratulations to them.
• 54:45
  Lee: Uh, what a great space that was.
• 54:47
  Lee: Congratulations, Pearl Bar.
• 54:49
  Lee: Very happy for you.
• 54:50
  Lee: Wishing you much success in the new space.
• 54:52
  Brett: Yeah.
• 54:53
  Brett: And another good news, while we were seeing all of this horrible persecution in Turkey, Hungary's government has said that it's going to be begin dismantling its ban on gay adoption.
• 55:05
  Brett: The new prime minister, Peter Magyar, announced that he's going to change it, the system that was imposed under their former prime minister.
• 55:14
  Brett: And it used to require ministerial approval here.
• 55:18
  Brett: So they've effectively banned gay couples from doing adoption.
• 55:21
  Brett: But now they're going to say, hey, if you're a good parent, you're a good parent, and we're going to let the adoption agency and everything make the decisions and not based on these criteria.
• 55:30
  Lee: Yeah, which you wonder why that's a significant story.
• 55:33
  Lee: Well, it Hungary has been known as a symbol of LGBTQ rights moving backwards.
• 55:40
  Lee: This they're thinking could represent the beginning of a movement in the opposite direction.
• 55:44
  Brett: Yeah, let that pendulum sping a little bit.
• 55:47
  Brett: Yes.
• 55:47
  Brett: Yeah.
• 55:48
  Lee: Yeah, and then we also have some other good news in the U.S.
• 55:51
  Lee: Senate.
• 55:52
  Lee: We have the first openly gay uh congressman who's one election away from making the history in that arena.
• 55:59
  Lee: Chris Pappas won the New Hampshire's Democratic primary on September 8th.
• 56:03
  Lee: If he wins in November, he would be the first openly gay man elected to the U.S.
• 56:08
  Lee: Senate.
• 56:08
  Brett: Yes, we have to make sure it's the Senate, not the House of Representatives.
• 56:11
  Brett: That's already had Barney Frank in there.
• 56:14
  Brett: Yeah, and a couple of others.
• 56:15
  Brett: So, but this Chris Pappas would be the first one in the Senate.
• 56:18
  Lee: Yeah.
• 56:18
  Brett: So, and that's that's amazing.
• 56:20
  Brett: And he was actually New Hampshire's first openly LGBTQIA plus member of Congress when he was elected to the House of Representatives in 2018.
• 56:27
  Brett: So he's making history again.
• 56:30
  Lee: Again.
• 56:30
  Brett: Yeah for him.
• 56:31
  Brett: So yeah, no, awesome.
• 56:32
  Brett: I mean, that's the kind of progress that you want to see.
• 56:34
  Brett: And you want to see those people go into the government so that we can stop seeing, like I mean, kind of trying to control medical stuff and using our community as a wedge issue for everything.
• 56:46
  Brett: And oh my gosh.
• 56:48
  Brett: And and then just, you know, you fear that this could come to like a state of like Turkey almost.
• 56:54
  Brett: It was going the same direction still.
• 56:56
  Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:57
  Lee: Well, let's hope it doesn't, but yeah, I can't see that, but you know, I'm I might be more optimistic than I should be.
• 57:04
  Brett: Well, it's just definitely it feels like the world is sometimes against you, and you feel it more and more.
• 57:11
  Brett: You feel like this pendulum is swinging.
• 57:13
  Brett: So hopefully Hungary and a couple of other things are signaling that maybe we're on the best swing back and back towards progress.
• 57:21
  Lee: Yep.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_06: This has been Queer Voices heard on APFT Houston and as a podcast available from several podcasting sources.
• 57:43
  Ghost of Glenn: Check our webpage at queervoices.org or something.