Latest / The Group Chat / Ep. 2 Thanks for the Brain Rot

Transcript

Ep. 2 Thanks for the Brain Rot · The Group Chat

• speaker-0: If you were the prime minister of Spain, how would you confront this problem? speaker-1: Okay, so we're live. All right guys. So the topic for today is social media. What's going on around the world? What are we thinking? How are we feeling? Brandon, start us off. You're the master. speaker-0: I'm the master. I'm the master of nothing. All right. So in Spain The president puts a name Pedro Sanchez I can remember he announced last week or two weeks ago that they were going to Start talking about having a ⁓ ban for social media for children in Spain under the age of 16 Some people are obviously for others against it Lots of questions. I don't know. We have to wait and see what rather how this is actually gonna play out. I don't know speaker-1: So you're saying that's an outright ban is the proposal. Just no kids under 16 whatsoever. speaker-0: to sign up for the social media. once again, you have to figure out, you have to go through and actually explain, well, what is social media? What accounts as social media, which platforms? Because I don't know, is WhatsApp considered social media? What do you think? I don't think so, but it could be. don't know. What do you speaker-1: I don't think so. speaker-2: personally would have considered, sorry Carson, yeah go ahead. Yeah no, I personally would have considered necessarily a social media because it's not like you can really post anything on it, like you don't really express your opinions or whatever, like it's an app for communication rather than anything else. speaker-1: No, no, no, no, you, you, Same, same yeah. It's not like Snapchat. Snapchat has a little bit more of that like time wasting appeal to it. You know, WhatsApp you're primarily communicating and so yeah, I wouldn't classify it as that. But I mean, what do you guys think about that? I mean, do you think 16 is reasonable to require that as a minimum age in Spain? I mean, it seems to be like, I would say at least 16, but maybe it is the right age. I don't know what I feel like. speaker-2: I think it's difficult to put a cap on what the age should be because we're talking about Spain, but this also is happening in France, Portugal, Australia. And from what I have noticed that children from, I don't know, say the States, teenagers in the States, you can't really compare them necessarily to teenagers in Spain. What I mean is that... speaker-1: What do mean? speaker-2: From my own personal experience, like certain, I don't know, I feel like some teenagers in Spain are a little bit more mature than teenagers in the States. Not all, I don't want to generalize, I don't want to throw everyone into the same bag, but I think the cultural aspect also has to do something with it. That if you look at a 16-year-old in, I don't know, Romania versus a 16-year-old in Spain or in, I don't know, Germany or whatever, or in Bolivia, I don't think they're culturally, they grew up a little bit different, so maybe they also have a little bit of a different... understanding and connection to social media. speaker-1: Okay. So maybe it does make sense to have different ages in different places as the minimum required age to log in or log on. speaker-0: Yeah, I don't think there's no way to have one uniform age for everyone. That's impossible. Everyone's going to be different, as you said, culturally or just the way they're brought up. Yeah. It's going to be different. Actually see comparing Spain and the United States, I actually see that the opposite. I'm thinking about when I was 16 in the US being more mature because I was 16, almost everyone I knew, they were already driving and they were working and they had that connect with the real world. And now here. The 16 year olds here, they don't do anything. speaker-1: This is true, there's kind of more responsibility, I guess, required at a younger age or more expectation, you know? I don't know, I mean, maybe it's a little extreme to say, but like, I wouldn't think it's a completely bad idea to make it 18 everywhere. I mean, 18, like, I know it might sound extreme, but if you're under 18, do you really need social media or should you be going out and doing things with friends? I mean, you can still film it. You can still create like, you know, have apps that are similar to Instagram where you can keep track of all the things that you're doing and record it and share it or like come up with some other way. But the fact that you're under 18, you're on an app that is public. It's essentially a globally public platform where you can find or be exposed to anything, any kind of content. And if you don't look for it, well, guess what? Algorithms make it so that it finds you. speaker-0: find you. speaker-2: Yeah. I want to bounce back to what Brandon said with, I think I lost my train of thought. speaker-1: We're talking about maturity, speaker-2: Yeah, something with maturity. Yeah, but we're talking about back in the days, right? now I think that is going to be also a little bit different. I look at, for example, my niece who is 18 right now she lives in Poland and compare her maturity levels to Spanish kids she's a more mature. I don't really know any teenagers in the States. I don't hang out with teenagers, you know, on the reg. speaker-0: Yeah, now who knows. It's probably a good thing. speaker-1: Full disclaimer, none of us hang out with kids. speaker-0: You speaker-2: What? speaker-1: I kind of have to. Well, except for teaching, right? Yeah. speaker-2: Exactly, with my students who are, I don't know, let's say 15, I feel like, or 16, I feel like they're quite mature. But that's also a very specific environment that they're placed because they're in a class. It's not like they're in, you know, hanging out at the mall with their friends. So I think it's also difficult to compare them. But yeah, Carson, you're right with the age of 18, it's sort of like, it sounds a little bit extreme. How do we actually need social media? speaker-1: I mean, that's what I kind of feel like and I don't want to trail too far off like the different points, but like... We'll get, we'll get to it. Like, but we know how much time we all can waste so easily before you know it. spent an hour on social media and then you think about it. Like, what are the goals that I have? Like what other things could I be using that 30 minutes a day, one hour a day to accomplish learning a language, you know, careers, you name it. But, ⁓ Brandon, you made a good point earlier as well about, well, we all kind of were coming together on this, talking about how it really starts with the parents. starts at. speaker-0: anything. speaker-1: Like what happens to the household in terms of like the parents being the gatekeepers? Like they decide just how much time, if any, these kids should be spending online, let alone social media. So yeah, what are your thoughts? speaker-0: I think it's a little bit difficult in that sense because in most cases, at least from being around lots of parents and students, being a teacher, the parents don't know exactly how much time the kids are spending on their phones and they don't know what they're doing with their phones. And so it's impossible for them to actually control it when they're so far out of the loop and that they're practically clueless to the whole situation. speaker-1: This is true. This is true. They're just, you know, worried about their day. They're not diving in too much into the lives of their kids and looking at their screen time and setting app timers and stuff like that. speaker-0: It seems to be more prevalent with younger children. So younger children that I don't know, maybe if they have like a iPad that they use to watch YouTube or whatever, that they seem like the parents control that or they have some type of program where they can see what it is exactly they're watching or how much time. But for the older kids, like my students, don't believe they have any type of control with their parents. Just a wild, west. speaker-2: No, definitely. I don't think so. I honestly believe, yeah, you're completely right with the younger kids being a lot more controlled, especially on YouTube. They think they have a special profile that you can make, like YouTube kids. speaker-0: You too, kids. speaker-1: Sure. speaker-2: And I see this with my little nephew as well. you know, my sister sort of controls that and she's like, okay, like that's what you're going to be watching, you know? But when it comes to other social media things, I highly doubt that parents really go in depth. I mean, my parents didn't. speaker-1: Yeah, no way. No way. parents. My sp- Carson, how much time are you spending on Myspace? What? I don't know. It doesn't keep track. They don't care about that right now. It's 2015. speaker-0: I have a That wasn't a concern before. speaker-1: No, no, no. But like, I agree with both of your points. Like, yeah, it is really the older kids, you know, 15, 16, 17, but then the younger kids, seems like at least the parents are a little more aware. Like they've seen enough, you know, coincidentally, they've seen enough information on social media about the problems or the dangers of social media. So yeah, it's, really those younger kids. Maybe we're doing a better job and maybe we're at that point where we are, you know, changing it over to like more regulation. which kind of invites over regulation and control the loss of freedom of speech. kind of have to be a little bit careful of that. We don't want to go too extreme because maybe it's not like, you know, it's not going to be overnight that we get all these young kids off social media or start, you know, restricting how much time they spend on it or whatnot. So yeah, broad topic. I can just, wow. speaker-2: Yeah, it's true, it's true. speaker-0: And it's going to be a fight because like you said before, if you put the age at 18, so what are you going to do? What's going to happen to those kids who already have social media accounts? The kids that are 13 or 14, 15 already have their social media accounts and all of a sudden they're taken away for the next three years until they're They're not going to want that. also the parents are going to, I think the parents are going to back them. The parents will fight for that. speaker-2: I think the parents will suffer at that point because it's, I mean, it's extreme, but I mean, it's a form of entertainment, right? And if a kid is used to using social media as a form of entertainment and then they don't have that, the parents will have to come up with some sort of activities, I don't know, sports or whatever for them to go out and do things. That's not going to be easy. Let's say, I think it's also going to be a little bit of like a withdrawal, know, people are like kids are having withdrawal. Like, I can't imagine what's going to happen when you take away from a 13 year old a mobile phone. mean, they're going to have a fit. speaker-1: We heard about what happened when those kids' parents took away the wifi. Remember that story? In Spain? Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. Why did I hear about this? speaker-1: I mean, Brandon, you maybe remember better than I do, but somebody died over this, speaker-0: the entire family. Yeah. There was, think the kid was maybe 14 or 15 years old and he got a bad grade on an exam or something. The teacher sent a message home. The parents saw it and they was like, all right, well, until you get your grades up, we're taking away the wifi. Kid didn't like that. So he waited, he went home, waited for the parents to come home. Basically, I think it was, I think they had a rifle and he, when the dad came home, killed his dad, killed the mom. And I think he had a sister or a little brother also. Cause they took the wife. speaker-1: I'm wife. Oh my god. speaker-2: point. speaker-0: And this, wasn't that long ago. This was probably around COVID time, maybe right after it or a few years ago. speaker-2: And the crazy thing is, this is not probably the first type of situation like this, you know? speaker-0: You think about that to the point, killed his entire family over internet. speaker-1: So yeah, withdrawals. But maybe they can like grandfather kids into this system. Like, okay, you've been using it. So if your parents agree, you can be grandfathered into the new system, but no new under 16s, no new under 18, whatever the country decides. Maybe, I mean, that might be hard to enforce. It might be impossible, but I mean, it's, it is amazing how we're just now getting to this point of Hey shit, like before this gets out of control, ⁓ wait, it kind of already is. Let's use a technology that we've had for so many years already to verify age. you have cameras on your phones since when? Okay. That's just even that alone, know, ⁓ ⁓ verification. Okay. Before even the fingerprints, the fingerprints ⁓ have been introduced for the last like what 13, 14 years, three or four years ago. It's been like almost all smartphones. How's fingerprint scanners like we can verify with a higher degree of accuracy than a password or a, you know, some, it's, you know, like, it's so easy to log in. Why is it so easy when, you know, we take it seriously when it's our banking information, but when it's our kids getting on social media, we're just like, yeah, go ahead. Steal my password here. Use my phone. Use my account. Okay. I'm on. Incredible. Yeah. speaker-0: Go ahead, do whatever. speaker-2: don't know what say about that. have anything to add on to that. But it's like, yeah, it's true. I completely see your point. ⁓ the same time, ⁓ for me, it brings this question ⁓ ⁓ right? mean, how much data do we want to get? mean, ⁓ over here, you know, on a podcast recording. They're going to know everything about us, but... It's this idea of still like privacy, right? For these kids, I don't know if they need to upload some sort of information that they're at the age of 13, that they were born this year. I mean, this is information that they use either way for creating any sort of app or I don't know, mail or whatever. But I think this is where there's going to be that pushback of like, how do we go about verifying all of this? speaker-1: Yeah. mean, because if they're going to start recording, saving the data of fingerprints and facial recognition, that's more data that can be leaked. That's more data that can be stolen. That's a, that's a privacy security risk. So for sure. speaker-2: Arson you would know about speaker-0: I that's the road that, I'm sorry, go ahead. I was going say that's a road that they're also going have a lot of problems with that because people are not going to want to provide any more extra information. Just have access to social media. Because I think in some places, I don't know if it was Australia, or I can't remember where, but basically what it is, you have to use your government ID. That's how they verify it. So once again, is it worth it to. speaker-1: No no no no no RRRR speaker-0: Upload your government ID to the social media platforms just so you can have access. don't know if some people will. Yeah, they'll say yeah, but I think a lot of people say no. speaker-2: Yeah, I think it is Australia. I think I heard that I think it is Australia. speaker-1: think they started in December. speaker-0: Australia, New Zealand, Australia, New Zealand are the, the first ones to enforce it. think Australia then New Zealand. And now I think in England, they're talking about it. France strain, obviously Portugal. speaker-1: The has its own thing going on, but a little different. ⁓ what was it? It's something that hasn't passed, but they are talking about, ⁓ I don't know if it's limiting time online. Now I want to say like even in Virginia, they're already starting to make, ⁓ limit the amount of time per day for 16, for under 16s or something like that. It's nothing. I don't know if there is like. speaker-0: I don't know what they're doing in the US. speaker-1: as far along in making progress. Cause I, maybe it's a bit harder to get all 50 States to kind of get on board, especially the whole state versus federal government type thing going on right now, a little bit of difficulty and just having a civilized conversation. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's happening everywhere and we're just going to maybe have to see what, how does it work in Australia? How's it going? Like our kids behaving, are they not killing their parents over this? Are. Are they getting better grades in school? Maybe this is going to take five or 10 years to really measure. Like, cause I've even heard the argument that kids are scoring way lower and cognitive tests. Like the idea was that every generation is supposed to outperform previous generations, like Gen Z apparently, and I hate, know, I'm not talking bad about any generation here. I'm just saying like, this is what I've heard. I don't know if it's true. I don't know the statistics, but one can only imagine that spending more time on social media is not good for. you know, complimenting other things that you're learning, unless you are strictly looking at things that are educational, which nobody does. Nobody does. speaker-0: They're not, none of them are doing that. But it is true in defense of the younger kids. They do use it to help them. Cause there are lots of accounts on TikTok, on Instagram that are, basically they teach you how to do math or explain whatever it is that you're learning in school. Well, they do it better. So a lot of kids will go directly to social media instead of paying attention in class. They'll go to social media and have someone explain it and they'll say, well, I use it for that amongst other things. yeah, but they do have, it does have some positive uses, but. I imagine that's a very small percentage. speaker-1: Yeah. And I would even, mean, yes, it's every social media has its own kind of algorithm. It's always feeding you something based on what it thinks you'll like or what it thinks you'll need. I don't know how that works, but it seems to me like at least YouTube has, I mean, I know I use it more for educational purposes and I guess I'm hopeful. Maybe I'm just blissfully unaware, but I feel like it has at least the potential to be less harmful. Whereas the scrolling. the scrolling type of just the way it's built into an app, kind of already sets you up for like getting lost in that. Just, you don't know how much time you're. Yeah, go ahead Paulina. want to say. speaker-2: Yeah, I mean, it's true, but I don't know if you have noticed that YouTube also started doing reels on YouTube. Like you can actually start scrolling through reels. speaker-1: True. speaker-0: It's same as TikTok and Instagram and everything now. speaker-1: ⁓ I didn't notice that the other day. was like, this looks different. And I mean, obviously the shorts have been around for a minute, but now the reels of shorts just like you speaker-2: Yeah. But I do think it definitely affects the attention span. mean, the videos that you watch on TikTok or on Instagram, if it's not interesting enough in the first, I don't know, three to five seconds, you're going to scroll and be like, I'm not going to watch this. speaker-1: time. Waste my time. speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-1: you're wasting time anyways. speaker-0: Exactly. So that, that at least sort of the problem, if they have the attention spans that are five seconds max, well, how are they going to sit in a class that's for 50 minutes or an hour or maybe back in the U S when you have block schedule, 90 minute classes, that's impossible with five second attention spans. speaker-1: 90 minutes, that's absurd. ⁓ man. can't get adults to do that. Like, get teenagers, like, come on. speaker-2: You have to get real creative in that class. speaker-1: You gotta take a break every 30 minutes, every 45 minutes, otherwise you're gonna lose them. You might have one or two students who can keep up for over an hour, but that's rare. That's so rare. speaker-0: No. Yeah, in Tennessee they have block scheduling. My school didn't have block scheduling. When I would hear stories about everyone else having 90 minute classes, I was like, no thank you. Glad to take my 45 minute class. speaker-1: I don't speaker-0: troubles. speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. mean, with the attention span, mean, when you look at the students now, and even adults, like, it's not just students. We're talking about like, ⁓ yeah, the students and young people and I get frustrated when my internet is too slow, you know? like, when the website won't load, I'm like, ⁓ my God, it's taking too long, refresh, you know? it's like, as Carson told me the other day, patience, woman, patience. speaker-1: But it's super later. speaker-0: We're so used to having everything instantaneously. speaker-1: Now we're all guilty. I mean, we're all being ⁓ exposed to this. It's just like different levels, right? I mean, we are all five years apart. So Like I got my first smartphone. My first phone was not a smartphone. Let me just start from there. That was a flip phone. So we all started with flip phones or some Nokia. The bricks. Classic. ⁓ yeah. yeah. So we all started somewhere and it wasn't, ⁓ these crazy screens ⁓ smartphones you know, what am I trying to say here? Like. speaker-2: Alright Nokia, hand the old- speaker-1: You know, it's just the way it started versus how it is now. Imagine starting as a young kid, getting your first phone and being exposed to the things that are out there. Like we're, kind of were introduced to it as it was, as it was happening on the up. Like we've seen the progression of it. We, played outside. We did things with friends. know, we didn't have phones. Parents said be home at eight o'clock for dinner or seven o'clock. Cause in the U S more like six to them. speaker-2: When the lights, you know, when the light posts are, turn the light, come home. speaker-0: Street lights come on, speaker-1: Yeah. When you're, when you stepped out of whistles and you're in the woods with your brother and you hear it, okay, it's time for dinner. Let's go. Like there was no phone on you 24 seven. There was no, got to check my, see who liked my photo. Oh, I got to send a Snapchat to this friend. I'm doing this thing. So I just, you were more in the moment. So we, we know what that's like, but I, I fear that like a lot of young people today, if we don't do something about it, if we don't start limiting it or monitoring it somehow controlling it, not, you know, then maybe we're just going to take away what it means to be a young person. speaker-0: I saw a stroller, someone pushing a stroller the other day and the stroller had like a, what's it called? Like a holder for a phone, like on the stroller, like a little baby stroller. And it had a holder, so you put your phone. I was like, this is sad. speaker-1: That's pretty sad. That's pretty sad that you need that that much I mean for me it's hard enough seeing people on the treadmills with reading reading or you know looking at their phones and it's just like you could be working so much harder if you just put that thing away for ten minutes and then like oh no you're just pushing your baby only the most important thing in your in your life in your world and I'm sorry I cross the street when I when a car was coming because I was watching a reel and it was just so funny oh no regrets speaker-0: No, no, no. The phone holder was for the baby. What? The phone holder was for the baby so the baby could watch videos. the phone Yeah, not for the parents. speaker-1: that's better? speaker-2: me. speaker-0: One of us better or worse, but yeah, it's a bad situation no matter what speaker-1: like that doesn't need to be and just doesn't need to like when we when we're designing the next drill ⁓ make sure you put a freaking smartphone holder in it ⁓ needs to be big enough for a tablet like speaker-2: Also shows like how the way we raise kids or like how we take care of our kids also has changed. I mean, I don't have kids. have two cats. I think none of us have kids. speaker-1: ⁓ wait guys, I forgot to tell you. speaker-2: You pregnant? speaker-1: This is not an announcement. No. am not pregnant. No. All speaker-2: But no, like how much attention we actually give, you know, to our kids because of media and all of that, you know, but the fact that kids need to also have phones or whatever to stay entertained because we need to do this, we need to put in the laundry, we need to whatever. I'm not a mother. I don't know what it's like, you know, and I understand it's a stressful job. I can only imagine. But at the same time, like my parents ⁓ three daughters. you know, without having us glued to the screens, you know? So they would tell us, go outside, go be with your friends, the other one take up the other one, you know, like take care of each other, whatever. And somehow I think we turned out to be okay. And we didn't need to be glued to the screen from the age of, I don't know, two or one. speaker-1: it's hard, right? ⁓ is hard. You feel like ⁓ shouldn't say anything because you don't have kids, but we see ⁓ we see and we feel how we feel about it. We make our judgments. Like it's only natural to say like, Ooh, I wouldn't do that if I were, if I had kids, I wouldn't be giving them the phone. But shit, you know, maybe you would because you're tired of this kid screaming. You're trying to have a nice dinner. It's your one night to go out per week or per month. The kid's like losing his shit unless you give him the phone. And then you can actually have a conversation with another adult. And ⁓ kind of, need that too. You need that. you need to be able to socialize as an adult too. So it's like. speaker-2: And I see this a lot with my friends that actually have kids and they told me like, I'm not going to be those moms, you know, that like gives phones and makes my kid watch TV or whatever. But now I go to their house and they're like, I look at their kid and their kid is like this looking at the screen, you know, at the TV because they need a moment for themselves. Their husband is at work, whatever. And they need a moment to, I don't know, let's say go and put the food in the microwave. or go and take a shower, whatever the thing that they need to do. yeah, it's easy for us, you know, we're very quick to judge, but at the same time, there are always two sides to this. speaker-1: Yeah. feel like as long as you're not using it as a babysitter, you're just kind of using it as like five, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever. How about 30 minute nap or something on the sofa? don't know, your kid's there, they're old enough. You don't have to keep an eye on them at 24 seven. I don't know what it is, but like, I think it's just about being responsible and being responsible means like making good choices for the little ones who pretty much don't choose. I mean, you choose everything for them. So choose to give them. the right amount of time and the right apps and the right content. definitely should start like the platform should be more careful about like, okay, this user who's logged in, how old are they? What type of content should they be seeing? You know, absolutely on extreme ends, like how, how crazy is the content or, or whatever. Like, I think that's what we're getting at. I think with all these bans and restrictions is they're trying to have that conversation with the tech companies. So I like to believe that the governments have our back. like to believe like they're trying to protect kids and families and society in the sense that kids grow up knowing how to socialize and they're comfortable approaching people in the streets and having mild confrontations and not, you know, ranting online and, you know, closing up and isolating themselves. Like, I think we can really, really see things going south if we don't get a grip on it. So I want to believe that this is, this is positive change. Maybe it's going to work out for the best if the governments tell us what to do. speaker-0: But I don't know, I can see it in class that the changes already happened. The kids don't know how to act. In a group, everyone is individual. They only want to work by themselves with a tablet or with their laptop. And they have no sense of actually working as a group with other people. The social connection is quite limited now. It's only getting worse. speaker-1: So yeah, definitely seen that too. Especially the younger kids too. I mean, they're just as quick to want to do something on tablet. Absolutely. I mean, it's a little unbelievable. It makes me a little sad, to be honest. speaker-2: Yeah, I mean, when we look back at like, I don't remember who was, think Carson mentioned like of going outside and as kids, like, you know, we spent the whole day outside and we're with with other kids and okay, we had an argument. All right, we worked it out and we didn't need to post about it online. But now it's like you have an argument with, I don't know, Jessica, and you need to post everything, you know, that Jessica is such a blah, blah, blah and sending hate and speaker-0: Instead of talking to Jessica. speaker-2: then you never talk to Jessica again. then, you know, five weeks later, you guys are best friends because Jessica, I don't know, liked your post and everything is okay now. ⁓ speaker-0: world in such a short amount of time. speaker-2: For sure. speaker-1: Seems like it, right? Like I said, I was, I was trying to say earlier, I was trying to connect the dots. Like I think I was started using Instagram in college when I was like really getting into it. At first it was Snapchat. I was more interested in Snapchat. using that more, and then it just turned into Instagram all the time and Snapchat just to the background. know a lot of people, I know a lot of people still use Snapchat. I don't personally, but to me, at least Snapchat had as at its core, the essence of Snapchat was more sharing more. I like this person. I want to send this person this thing. a little bit more connection, whereas Instagram is more like, I gotta have everybody think, like, I'm the shit, my life is a- Look at me, I'm only gonna post when it's perfect, when I really love the photo, when I love the filter. speaker-2: Yes, but Instagram didn't start off like that. I don't know if you guys remember like the very first Instagram. speaker-1: don't. What was it like? don't remember. video, right? It's just pictures. ⁓ speaker-2: Really? It's just pictures. think it was just... speaker-0: I it's just pictures, because it's more like for photographers. speaker-2: Yeah. And it was very like basic, like if you think, if you look back at like the most basic Facebook, that's what sort of was like what Instagram was like. Also like the most basic type of layout, nothing crazy. And it was like peaceful, you know, you didn't have all of these reels up in your face, all of these ads and stories and you constantly know what everyone else is doing. It's like. ⁓ Betty posted a photo! ⁓ beautiful flowers! Great, you know? And that's it. And... And you guys remembered that feature of Instagram where you could actually... spy on other people? speaker-1: ⁓ you can see what they liked and what they who they were following and stuff. Well, I mean, you can still see what they're but like, yeah, it was a yeah. When did that change? That was not too long ago that that. And it's still kind of built in. It's a little less built in, but you still. Yeah. yeah, it's true. ⁓ speaker-2: Too long ago, yeah. speaker-0: So that's. speaker-2: Yeah. They took that out because probably like it broke like of like a lot of couples of marriages because I mean you literally could see what like your crush liked or your husband or your girlfriend or whatever you're like they like this so. speaker-1: Hey, I know somebody that was affected by that not too long ago, so that's why I say you can still you can still kind of you can yeah, you can figure that shit out Pretty easily not as easily as before speaker-2: ⁓ yeah. What apps do you guys normally use? Right. Instagram. Just Insta. speaker-1: Instagram. Same here. speaker-0: Instagram, YouTube. speaker-1: That's it. Really. Instagram, YouTube. And I was going to say I have Facebook, but I don't use it. I have it just in case family members want to message me on Messenger, which never happens. Yeah. speaker-0: I Facebook for family. speaker-1: Yeah. Right. Yeah, I to share. speaker-2: out there with all of it, but yeah. speaker-1: What got? What you got? No, no, what you got? speaker-2: No, I have like all of it. have all of them. Not surprised. No, I have obviously Instagram. We have TikTok, which started the whole journey with TikTok about a year ago. YouTube, but YouTube I mainly use for like teaching, you know, if I find like a fun video or whatever. And Facebook, but Facebook for the same reason, since my family lives in a different country. It's mainly to keep in touch with people, but I don't really use Facebook to really post on Facebook. Not anymore. speaker-1: I know you tried to get me on TikTok, you and another friend of mine, uh, JC. Yeah. Just sending me things. And for a while there, you could open it without having TikTok. You could see them, but now like at some point I wasn't able to. Yeah. And I was like, you have to download the app. I'm like, that's pushy. I'm gonna try to entice me a little more by giving me a taste. Let me see this real. Oh, that's a really good one. Now I'm going to join. No, I mean, don't even let me see it. All right. It's easier for me to say, no, thanks. I'm good. I waste enough time on Instagram. speaker-2: Welcome to the Dark Side. speaker-1: ⁓ No, thank you. speaker-0: No, thank you. speaker-2: Why not? Why don't you guys like TikTok? That is my, that is sort of a question because I mean, it's a lot of- I would say it's a lot of young people that always go, I don't want to be ageist here. speaker-0: No, it's mainly young people, but also now if you have any type of business or anything, any type of brand, have to have, you have to have a TikTok. Well, all social media, but especially TikTok. Yeah. But I don't use it personally because I'm trying to get as far away as from social media as possible. And so that for that reason with Instagram, that's enough for me. I don't need, I don't need more than that. speaker-1: Yeah, that's kind of the same reason for me. That's just like I already use an app timer for Instagram. I'm trying to be a good boy. I don't think anymore distraction is good. speaker-2: understandable. And I want to come back to this idea of the ban because if we're going to start banning people because TikTok, right, mainly is used by like teenagers and I don't know, people in their twenties and whatnot. Or as Brandon said, businesses and people who try to establish their brand. If we take all of those people off of TikTok, you know, the kids that are below the age of, I don't know, 16 or I'm trying to think how is that going to influence the influencers, the brands. speaker-0: They're going to lose a lot of money. ⁓ We saw this happen was the last year when it shut down for, was it 24 hours? I can't remember what happened. I guess it was when they were trying to find someone to buy it. And I think Trump said it was, it doesn't get shut down if someone buys it or I can't remember exactly both. It was down for 24 hours or not even 24 hours and people lost a lot of money. speaker-2: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah, there is a lot of pros and cons with these young people being online and whatever because for people who have their businesses on TikTok and for example makeup brands or clothing stores or whatever and if their audience is, I don't know, teenagers or their audience is young adults or whatever then it's possible that those people are not going to be there anymore. speaker-1: Such a concept. speaker-2: They're not going to be on TikTok. So who are they going to be selling to? I don't know if that makes sense. speaker-0: Oh yeah, you have to go to a different platform. have to use something. You have to find your customers somewhere else. speaker-1: Yeah. Well, yeah. mean, if you, if you end up banning, like completely banning a certain demographic, like you said, then, then yeah, what do they do when these kids aren't seeing what the brands are doing and they're not interested in going there on the weekends to the malls with their friends because they saw something on TikTok, they saw a girl shopping there and whatever it may be. Right. So you're right. mean, that's why I think it's more appropriate to tailor the experience and In a lot of cases, try not to use so much algorithmic stuff or at least be transparent about it. And like overall, just like limiting the content. Like you can go here. These doors are open for you because you are this demographic, but these doors are closed because you're not 18, because you're not 21. Like you can't go into a bar and start drinking. If you're underage, you shouldn't be able to go to certain, to view certain sites, view certain pages. If you're not certain age, like it only makes sense to me. It's logical, right? But kicking them off altogether, I don't think is the answer either. Like you said, think like businesses suffer, kids lose their sense of identity, which is wrapped around kind of their social media life, their life online. So yeah, I think like anytime you do these extreme, take extreme measures, like the fallout is probably sometimes just worse than you expected. And it's not worth it. speaker-2: Another sort of question comes up when you're talking about this, because yeah, we're talking also about businesses, but there's also the aspect of like, creative. like people who, like, I don't know, let's say artists, right? There is a lot of young people that go to those shows. Let's say, I don't know, the parents doesn't follow the artist, but the kid wants to go to a show and they can't even see when they're having, I don't know. I know nowadays you can see that on Spotify or whatever, but generally people young kids don't really maybe use Spotify. They prefer to go on TikTok or Instagram and see, my favorite artist is touring or whatever. I think that also creates a little bit of like a dip. speaker-1: Yeah. You know? speaker-0: ⁓ No, young people definitely get they get all their information from social media. No matter what it is, they get it from social media. speaker-1: They do. And so do we. I mean, a lot of times like I just started using, ⁓ ground news to, look into stories, news stories that I find interesting, but where do I first hear about these stories? Sometimes, I mean, a lot of times online, I see a real and I'm like, that's interesting. Yeah. So I do a little investigation, but I don't expect everybody else to do the same. think a lot of people just get that surface encounter and they're like, ⁓ that's the way it is. I saw something on social media, but now we have all these AI videos circulating and unless you're really. really into like picking apart the details and you're like good at that shit or you're aware. Most people are even if you are aware, you're busy, you're doing your life, you catch something and you're like, what that's happening right now. Like it can really, I can really mess with people and that could cause huge problems. course. So, like the whole getting your news, like we get our news online, we get it on social media. So how do we retrain ourselves to like find the appropriate channel for the appropriate content or. We just have to get better at filtering that content on the platforms. These tech companies need to do a better job and they need to hire more people. Maybe this is how we get more jobs is that we have people behind these computers who are actually filtering and we're actually checking on you're responsible for this state, this county, like check on who's accessing the platform. Are there any anomalies? are these, are all these people verifying their age the same way? there any like, like look into it, if there's an issue. And also definitely hold parents more accountable for their kids getting online. Like, you know, the tech companies absolutely have a responsibility, but parents, have to be like, it begins and ends with them. Like you can't do any of this without them. I mean, there's always a way for the kid to get around it. There's always a way to spoof your, your identity. hate to say it's probably not so easy, but there's a will, there's a way at some point a kid's going to find a way around this. And then that's just like, ⁓ now we're teaching kids how to steal identities at like 10 years old. This is great. So we have to be careful what kind of problems we unearth when we're doing all this. It's a very complex problem. speaker-0: When they started talking about this last week, or like I said, a couple of weeks ago here in Spain, they were down in the streets and they were asking people, well, what do you think about the ban for social media for children under 16? And like I said, there were some people that were for it, some people were for it, against it. And there were some people that were saying, well, how is the government going to tell me how to raise my kid? But at the same time, it's kind of like, well, the whole situation is so far out of control because whatever we're doing is not working. So now the government is. for whatever motive they have, they're stepping in to try to do something. You to wait and see if it's actually a good motive or not, but the situation's out of control. So whatever was happening wasn't working. now they're choosing to go to take this road to try and the problem. speaker-1: Yeah, that's that definitely like lingers in my mind this whole time while all this is happening What is the prime motivation? Why now? it hit that we're seeing So much more public backlash against governments and people speaking up the government's feeling like they're losing their grip on control of societies is this a step towards more oversight or speaker-0: Why now? speaker-1: You know, government oversight, is this like fueled by that kind of negative, you know, dark motivation, or is this actually to help people? Like, and how do we, as the public, how do we maintain some control over this instead of just letting the legislators, letting the governments decide how do we, how do we work with them and find like, know, common ground? Like maybe, I don't know, we... The parents, if, let's just say a kid who's 15 years old wants to sign up for Instagram. Hey, Instagram knows right away. That's a 15 year old kid. There's ID, there's facial recognition, there's biometrics. Okay. We've registered this kid as 15 year old. now at this point, it could be, I don't want to be the one making these decisions, obviously, but then you can ask with the parents consent. And then that parent goes through the same process, verifies their identification. Shit. I wouldn't even mind if they had to go to a place in person. to say, this is my kid. I am saying that it's okay for them to use social media. And then just like you go and get a driver's license, you get this privilege, this right, obviously streamline it. It doesn't have to be such a stupid process because that's a stupid process. But you know what I mean? Like there is a way, if we really care about it, there's a right way to do it. Where, like you said, we're not just stepping on toes. We're not saying this is how you got to raise your kids. Like absolutely a COC. Like it doesn't have to be, you know what I mean? speaker-0: But I think we all know that's not going to happen. As hard as it is to get stuff done now, if you say you have to go through all those steps, obviously in a perfect world, it'd be amazing. But if you're in Spain, that happening. speaker-1: Oh no no no No, but at least do it online. least fucking video conference. Come on. That's, that's something. I mean, I could, I could spoof that. could fake that with AI. Yes. But like, it'd still be a little harder for the average person to go through all those, all that trouble just to verify their identity. At least like we have some fine print that says you verified, ⁓ don't hold us liable for this, this, this. speaker-2: Yeah, but I want to bring him back to the question that Carson asked, but why now? Like what is the motive behind it right now? speaker-1: Brandon said it's out of control, but hasn't it been out of control? speaker-2: Yeah, that's the thing. When you look back, I don't know, let's say 2006, 2008, 2010, mean, yeah, internet wasn't the same as it is now. But I mean, there are websites like Omegle or I don't know, Chatroulette and Tumblr and you go down and Tumblr and you have a whole bunch of speaker-0: I think the difference now is that before, obviously, so we had to actually get on a laptop, go to the different websites and do all that. Now everyone has a phone. Literally everyone has a phone from what eight or nine years old. Kids are getting phones. haven't their first phone. So now they have their phone and now they have access to anything and everything. And that's something that's been happening in the last what? don't know, maybe five, 10 years. And I think maybe it's because of that. Cause just sort of the sheer exposure and the number of phones that are. that are out there now. And it's always getting younger and younger for when you get your phone. As we were talking about before, we didn't get a phone until we had our Nokia bricks. But now when you're in elementary school, kids are going to school with their phones. speaker-1: We didn't have so much power at that age, but at this age, at that age now, it's like some kids know how to use their phones better than their parents. And that's just bizarre. It's a strange concept. speaker-0: And also with the why now I heard this in a podcast. was listening to, I don't know if it was this morning or yesterday. And it was like an actual, it's actual concept. can't remember what it was called, but basically it was cause since I think it was Australia was the first one to do it, to put in the band and then it was New Zealand. And basically it's the fact that you see something happening and then other people say, Oh yeah, let's do that also. And so they started. And it keeps going and going and going. And so I started in Australia, New Zealand, and then it went to England and France, Germany, Spain, Portugal. And I think he's just going to keep going just because someone said, ⁓ let's do this. And then everyone else, like you said, jumped on the jumped on the bandwagon. ⁓ I mean. speaker-1: At least, yeah, we can, guess we could be grateful for them starting it off. Like having, starting the conversation. Somebody's got to do it. Right. I mean, otherwise, like you said, people are lazy. We're just like, nah, we're, we're, when I work our jobs, we're going to try to earn more money and go vacation. ⁓ kids will be kids. Ha ha ha. It's just the way it is. This is just life nowadays, but we make excuses very easily. So it is harder to like have those adult conversations. We should. Do something about this. speaker-2: Yeah. I want to bring up a point that I think I sent to, to Carson, well, to both of you guys today. Let me just look it up because I don't remember exactly how I structured it, but it's similar to what you guys were just talking about. ⁓ about like why, as I said, why now? You know, like if, if we're being overprotective, like our kids nowadays just like more mean to each other or because I mean, like social media, mean, there is a lot of like cyber bullying. mean, once you have social media, you can't escape that, you know, but is it because kids are mean or is it because we're more sensitive to him? We're more sort of like, we know we're more aware or are kids more sensitive? That's sort of like, you know, I think about it because Like I said, we had so many different types of apps and websites and whatever, and yeah, maybe they weren't on our phones. We had to directly go them on our computer or laptop, but they were still accessible. And I think, I mean, we're a little bit weird, but I think like we turned out to be pretty okay, you know? So I'm trying to sort of see, it because it's a generational thing, are kids more sensitive? Are we being more... speaker-0: I think parents in general are definitely way more overprotective than before. As far as our kids meet her now, no, kids are always, always been mean. But I think, I think, I don't know, it's just a change. It's just, like I said before, I think a lot has changed in a short amount of time, especially, I don't know, for me, being the oldest one out of the group. I've seen how it's changed from like when I was in high school to what it is now. And I, I'm pretty sure I shared this with you all before, but I tell my students, like, you can pay me to be a teenager right now. speaker-1: Yeah, I'll second that. speaker-0: There's no way I would go back and go through all this that they're going through now. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, no way. Yeah, good point, Molina. mean, I'm glad you brought that up. Because I guess I feel like kids are not meaner nowadays. think kids always have a mean streak. You know, there's a certain age range where they're like really harsh and critical of each other. And, you know, and they start forming their opinions of what's right, what's wrong, what looks good, what looks bad, what's funny, what's stupid. And I think maybe just social media opens up another channel for kids to exercise that hate because they can be nice. It's a choice, right? It could be nice. They could say nice things. They can give compliments or what's better. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. But that doesn't seem to exist anymore. That's kind of where. ⁓ no, you have like, you have this voice that's, I don't know. It's almost like I can get away with it if I say it online when it's like kind of the opposite. It's there forever until you take it down. speaker-0: Definitely not. speaker-1: But it's more permanent than just saying it out loud or making a mistake or having to apologize in person. Now it's, yeah, it's another channel, another opportunity. And for some reason, maybe kids feel a little, I don't know, just more confident in ⁓ things that are, ⁓ shouldn't be saying or, you know, things that later thinking or regret or might send somebody off. into a dark spiral, you know, kids are affected by this. Kids are very sensitive. And then they see that other people, it's like, if I just say something to you on a playground and maybe five or 10 people hear it, okay, I can, I can live with that. I can, I can come back from that shit. But I'm sorry, how many people are online? How many people saw that hundreds, a thousand of my friends or connected relatives or whoever that's embarrassing. And that really is like way more of a psychological hit than than just what he would experience as playground bullying. mean, I was bullied a little bit in elementary school, believe it or not. Like, yeah, I got in some fights, but like, you know, nobody's posting shit online about Carson's and the fucking ugly carrot top ginger skinny kid weak, you know, like that would have hurt. That would have hurt a lot more. But one, one kid saying that to me, I'm like, okay, I'm going to defend myself. Let's go. Let's rattle. I say it like that because the woman, the leader of the after school program, I'm not going to throw names around, but she was very southern. She said, Carson, stop wrestling. I was like, what? You mean wrestling? speaker-0: ⁓ man. speaker-1: I was like, I'm just offending myself. They call me Carrot Top. I'm not going to take that shit. But yeah, it's way different, Paulina. It's way different. kids are like, I can't find the word, you know, they're emboldened by this, the shield, this, this cover of a screen. It's like, it's not, but it gets the opposite. speaker-2: this started already like I mean I don't know if you guys knew about this website was called Ask FM. No? when I was in high school... speaker-1: Now what's up? Ask Jeeves, speaker-2: No, it was pretty much that you could post like anonymous questions to people in your school or people that you sort of knew because a lot of people who created the account, there were two different websites. There was AskFM and there was I think another one called FormSpring and you could ask questions. You would post the links to your Facebook and whatever and be like, hey, ask me anything. A lot of the time they didn't ask you questions. It was like, Hey, you ugly, you know, or like, like straight up, you know, because you could either post as a, as a person who actually had like an account or anonymous. Obviously majority of the people would choose anonymous. And very few questions were asked, you know, or like they were very personal. They were like, Hey, I saw you hanging out with Jack. Do you like him? It's your boyfriend. And it's like, no. So it was just like, think very gossipy, know, like XOXO, gossip girl type of style. But it's true that you handle those things like very differently, you know, like the people that actually saw that were the people in your school. It wasn't a whole, I don't know, like social media across all platforms or whatever. It's just like, okay, maybe the people who actually visit the website that visit your profile will see it. And that will be maybe like, I don't know, 50 people. Whereas right now, as you said, it's infinite amount, amount of people who are just like constantly. speaker-1: just seemed to be a little more playful back in the day. Yeah. And kids could take it. Maybe, maybe kids were tougher back then. I mean, I don't, I don't want to say that kids are more sensitive now. think like, if it's that, if they are more sensitive now, it's because adult society has made them more ⁓ because of exposing them to these things. Right. It is like, you have to bring it back. Who's responsible? Tech companies, parents, adults. Yeah. So yeah, tech companies create jobs. You got a lot of money. I don't know what to tell you, but deal with this shit before it gets out of control. Worse because when things happen to kids, it's on you. You got blood on your hands, so to speak. And maybe not so to speak in some cases, like kids have, you know, died. Kids have killed themselves. Kids have totally isolated themselves and they're, they're not able to socialize properly. And it's hard to come back from that. You know, kids get, that's scarred for life type of stuff. So. speaker-0: I think there was a trial that started last week in the U S about, I can't remember if it was a boy or a girl, someone who killed himself. And they were, I think it was a girl and they were taken, I don't know if it was open AI or who, but they were taken to court and it just started last week. they said, well, this is going to be like the first of many cases of, of families of children that are committed suicide, taking the big tech companies to. speaker-1: Right. speaker-2: And it's not just about, you know, kids. That's very heavy, but it's not just about the kids committing suicide, but also the violence between kids. In Poland, quite recently, I don't know, a few months ago, there was a case where I think a 12 or 13 year old stabbed another, like, I don't know, 12 or 11 year old. She brought a knife to school because I think there was something that had to do in connection with posts online they don't they didn't really talk to each other in person. They didn't really know each other They sort of like see each other on the hallway, but never had like any contact and I think what happened was that something escalated online ⁓ The other one just decided to Stop the other one. I mean the other the I think she was 11 I think or 12 she died It wasn't just one stab wound. It was like ⁓ ⁓ speaker-1: Later, man. It's unthinkable, like the things that have happened and then you find out like, all started online. speaker-0: A lot of it, it's always online. The stuff that we hear at school, like the parents will come to us and say, well, our child can't be with this child because they said this online two years ago and then they still talk and all these different problems. It's always, everything starts online. Nothing's ever in person. speaker-1: Big problems. just say, all stop using social media. Just everybody at the like tomorrow. Okay. Just forget about it. Just boycott, boycott social media. Done. We don't need it. Come on. Let's do this. Let's have conversations. Is that not enough? speaker-0: do it. We could do it, but the younger generation? No, I think we could. You could. You were struggling at first, but you'd be able to do it. speaker-1: and we can't do it. I think, yeah, it would be possible for us, but we can't speak for everybody. speaker-2: I think it would be really nice. do you guys remember the blackout that happened in Spain like last year? And we didn't have like any access to our phones, social media or nothing. Like I sat down on my couch and I was reading for like two hours and I was like, Oh, this is so peaceful. speaker-1: It was. Yeah. Oh, I'm glad it was nice for you guys. I was trying to put together a lesson and I did need some interactive materials because I was covering a group that I had never spoken to before. was like, ah, this is great. I love this. Where is my technology? speaker-0: I didn't know. was in class when it went out. speaker-1: now they're speaker-2: Yes, it was I, but then I was like, okay. speaker-1: All of us. Just walk out the door like that's class for today guys. We're done. We don't know how to interact anymore. We are not humans. We are robots on screens. But. Well, shit. speaker-2: I mean, I think it's possible for adults to do. think we could definitely, you know, go, I don't know, a couple of days without social media. I think it would be even healthy to do those like little... speaker-0: It should be necessary. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah. Detox. Exactly. That's the word I was looking for, a detox. Yes. speaker-1: I think that's, it's that obviously now that comes down to a personal choice. Like we all have to decide for ourselves when, how much time we want to spend on it. ⁓ Brandon, thank you. Thank you so much for showing me the app timers on the phone because the ones in the apps just are kind of, you know, shit sweet. Yeah. speaker-0: No, because they want you to stay on. speaker-1: They want you to like, ⁓ they make it so easy. like, ⁓ forget about this timer. Like social media is way fun. ⁓ you're like, ⁓ yeah, sure. But then on the app timers, it like grays out on your phone. You have to go into your settings, change that timer again. I still don't like how they like add 10 minutes. It's just a very easy button to push, but I don't know. It feels a little bit stronger. But other than that, like it's your phone, you can adjust the settings, but Hey, okay. Maybe it's the social media companies restrict the amount of time kids spend. How old are these kids? We're verifying age. And also, how many days per week do we need to have this available to kids seven days a week? Monday through Friday or Monday through Thursday, is it necessary for a kid? No. Should they be doing their homework? Should they be going up to their friend's house and studying together? Yes. So maybe that's a conversation to be had. I think definitely restricting the time, but even maybe restricting the number of days. Like you said, like we should definitely detox ourselves. Like adults included, our personal relationships. Come on, it's affecting our personal relationships. I know all of us are guilty of this, that we're out somewhere with our loved ones. a family, know, romantic partner, whoever it may be. And then like, at some point somebody pulls out the phone and it's like, obviously it's kind of unspoken nowadays. Like it's a little bit frowned on, ⁓ a little taboo to like be on your phone for too long, but at some point you're to spend a minute on it here. You're to spend a minute on it there. But like, that is a pause from like the normal silence that two people should have between, between them, you know, and like, that's part of like living. That's part of really like we're in live, you know, direct coming to you live. We're not connected to our phones. But the second you pull it out, it just breaks that what should be normal. speaker-2: Hold on. I got a type-wise. speaker-1: the- ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, speaker-2: But it's ⁓ Carson. It's so true, especially with that silence, right? Those silent moments, feel like nowadays we avoid them, right? Because we're like, ⁓ my god, this is awkward. This is weird. I don't know what to say. Should I say something? Because we're so overstimulated constantly with noises, with music, with, I don't know, a reel, with a photo, with a story that is all of it has music. All of it, you know, is like, so there's just so much happening. And the moment that it's silent. Like, crickets? You look around? Awkward! speaker-1: True. Gotta fill the silence. Constant stimulation. I need constant stimulation. speaker-0: You can't be bored for three seconds. speaker-1: gotta be bored sometimes, you gotta give yourself permission. speaker-0: necessary. Have you all seen The Social Dilemma on Netflix, the documentary? speaker-1: Yes, this is the one where they kind of simulate when they're building like the profile on you, how they do that. speaker-0: Yeah, It's basically, yeah. So people that, I think there are people that worked on, on Facebook, on all the different social platforms, social media platforms, well basically they go through it and talk about, well, how it really works, all the algorithms and I don't know. It's, I think it's extremely eye-opening and it should be required viewing for everyone. Be how social media truly is and how they want us to stay on and. For sure. speaker-1: I we're just so, yeah, it's worth seeing for sure. mean, it's like, kind of all know that we have that in the back of our minds. Like this is how it works behind the scenes, but otherwise we just love this illusion that it was magic and it's fun and everything's great. And the stimulation makes my brain happy. like, you start seeing like, they're tracking me. They're starting to say like, and predict what I should see. That's control. That's mind control. That's. speaker-0: Exactly. speaker-1: They're controlling my life to an extent. I'm spending hours a day or hours a week, which we all do at a minimum spend hours a week on social media. Those are hours that we're just handing over saying, here's my brain. Do with it what you will force feed me what you think I should hear and what I should see because my brain is just linear. And I always just think of the same things, but that's not how the brain works. Not at all. We need randomness. We need like no algorithms. We need just to see what just happens to pop up. latest thing that was posted from our friends, please not ads. Thank you. have to scroll through ads for five minutes because I want to pay for Instagram. Why should I pay for Instagram? Like they should pay me. speaker-0: That's another reason I don't even use it that often because I get on and I don't see any posts from friends. I was like, I don't want to see ads. So I just get off. speaker-2: to go to your friend's profile to actually see what is happening with them, you know? Like, I haven't seen anything from Carson. It's like, is he still alive? And he's like, let me see. And it's like, I don't see anything about Carson. Yeah, doesn't pop up. speaker-1: Yup. was following, following somebody, a dancer. I like watching people break dance to crazy dances. It's fun, right? But then like, I've been following this guy for years and he's based out of Paris and his moon walks. Salif, Crook Boys. I don't know if you guys know this. Shout out to Salif. He's got the moves. Anyways, I haven't seen posts from him for more, for a minute. I mean, for a hot minute. And then last, I think it was last night. I saw him. I was like, he's alive. Like, okay. Where has he been hidden all this time? Like I liked, I've liked so many of his videos, so many of his photos and posts and like, I don't follow that many people. mean, it's under a thousand like should be seeing his content. So what's going on? They're just promoting other content. They're just promoting and pushing other things. Like you said, Paulina, I have to go search for him. If I want to see him, I have to go search for my friends to see what's going on in their lives. When that was the whole point of this in the beginning, wasn't it? To stay in touch with people, people I know, people I knew. Which is also a weird to me. It's a little weird to me. I consider myself more of a private person than I ever have. And the fact that these people that used to be in my life, went to high school together or even earlier than that, they can see everything I'm doing. I can see everything they're doing. Like, is that necessary? Is that normal? Like, I don't mind. I'm not like paranoid about it, but it is kind of strange. I mean, a little strange. speaker-2: that. I have thought about that this morning actually because I was looking through like the Instagram stories and I saw like somebody that I went to high school with and like, are they really that important in my life that I have them in my like followers? Okay, like we're in high school together, we had the same classes but... speaker-1: That was that much of your life. speaker-2: they're not relevant in my life right now. And I think it's also this idea of, I mean, this goes for adults and teens of like comparing yourself, you know, like sometimes I think it's very like so much in our human nature that we sometimes look at are like, this person has done this. Why didn't I do that? Why can't I do that? I had that recently with the person that I know. I met her maybe like she was sort of my friend, like acquaintance when I was living in Poland. She published the book and she had her first like author meeting and she invited me to an event in Poland on Facebook and whatever. And I didn't see it because I don't really check Facebook. And then it came up on my Instagram and I'm like, Oh, she had an event for her book and she just published it. Like my book has been out for a year. And I'm like, I'm not over here doing. anything with it. And it's like, creates this pressure and you start comparing like, it not good? it whatever? And as adults, and I'm trying to think of it like on the scale of teenagers with everything that they see, with all the supermodels that are like, you know, in their 20s or, you know, early 30s, and they start comparing themselves to that. speaker-0: Yeah, it's rough. It's rough. Keeping up with the Joneses. Yeah. speaker-1: I mean, it's just, yeah. And then the filters and it's like, that's not even how they really look sometimes. Right. Okay. I what's going on? I mean, bad for the bad for the one posting bad for the people seeing it. Yeah. Like superficial me. Here you go. I mean, there's that benefit, right? The educational benefit that like speaker-0: Thanks for everyone. speaker-1: You're being exposed to these people who do the things that you need to be interested in. Those things happen. There's good, you know, we can't like say it's just so bad. Everything's bad. We should get rid of it altogether. That wouldn't work and it wouldn't be good for us anyways. But how do we combine like responsible use with responsible protection with cooperation with parents and just education. What's happening to your brain when you're on this? Let's make this a class. Let's make this class in elementary school. speaker-0: they teach the kids, it also teaches the parents. Because as we said before, everything starts at home. So if the parents don't know, unfortunately, it would be a bad situation if we have to leave it up to the children to teach the parents, which I'm sure happens at some point, but it should be the other way around. speaker-2: I think in this situation as Carson said, I mean, there needs to be some sort of limit, right? Definitely with the age and, you know, whether, how many hours we can be online and all of this, but at the same time, there should be some sort of courses, whether it's in schools or offered by, I don't know, a city hall or town hall or whatever that puts that sort of like, you know, puts that out there for the parents to be like, Hey, this is what your kid might be doing online. This is how you can actually have them, you know, stay safe online. And have that as like for kids and for adults, right? So for the parents, I don't know, have one session and for the kids to have like a modified younger version session. But at the same time, you can also create something that is for both of them, you know, that they can join and go to this course. together, could be a school, can be something that is done by, as I said, city hall, town hall, whatever. Because that, if you're not educated about it, you're not going to take the steps to do anything about it. speaker-1: Sure. If it's not. speaker-0: Speaking of that, I saw a program here in Spain on the Spanish TV in English. It would be translated as Generation Click. And it was basically that ⁓ it's about the parents. have the parent, they interview the parents with the children. So the children are saying what they, how much time they spend on their phones, on social media, or even on the Xbox, PlayStation, all the things that they do. And then basically the parents are there and they don't, they didn't have a clue to what was going on and how much time they were spending. And I remember there's like even girls like little, there's little girls that's even like nine, nine years old. And she was like playing GTA and just on her phone and doing all these different things. And she's coming home from school and getting on, on her PlayStation playing GTA and talk about killing people and robbing people. it's like, it's insane. definitely cornerstones. ⁓ speaker-2: And there's me playing Sims and... I don't know. Like, yeah. I don't know. It's just... Go ahead, Carson, cause I see your- speaker-1: ⁓ I don't know where to go from here. just don't know where to go from here. Like, I mean, I want to. believe in the good and the positive and the optimistic and say that, you know, we can just retrain ourselves, retrain our parents, retrain our kids and ourselves included. How to use it properly, how to use it in an optimal way where it's not, you know, we're minimizing the negative effects of it. mean, It's just like anything. mean, you had, you got to strive to, for a balance. can't go to the gym seven days a week, work out really hard and expect to recover enough to see the benefits of all that training. Same thing goes for drinking and drugs. I can't, I can't abuse this stuff. know, if you moderate it, maybe you can get the benefits of it. Maybe you can loosen up. Maybe we can release some of that stress. Maybe certain things can help you sleep at night. Okay. Whatever social media has to be kind of treated the same. And in the sense that how should it be used? How can I adjust it? What controls do I have over the settings? know like Facebook for a while there went through a huge transition after all the lawsuits, the privacy concerns. And now all of sudden there's like a million different things you can do in your privacy settings. And it's too much. It's overwhelming. something along those lines of like, can, I want to be able to change the way, which tabs can I see? Do I need the discover feed? Can I hide that altogether? Maybe you can already correct me if I'm wrong. don't know. But like, maybe there's just. More we can do to control what we're seeing, uh, how we're using it and beyond just how much time we're spending on it. But like, what are we using it for? What should we be using it for? Like, do we care? Okay. You don't care. You know, leave it open wild, wild west. Like see whatever you want to see, see whatever they want you to see. but yeah, I think we're all in agreement here. Like the whole point of this talk is just to say, like, we're living this. We, we see what it's like for us. We've seen how it's progressed. We've seen the effects it's had on younger people, even on people older than us too, it's having an effect and that's maybe a conversation for another day, but we're living this and it's something worth talking about, something worth reforming. Like I'm all for the government helping, you know, helping regulate if it's to help, if it is, you know, aimed in the right direction and it's not a takeover. And that's all I have to say about that. speaker-0: I have a question for it, the way that we can end this. If you were the prime minister of Spain, how would you confront this problem? How would you sit down and try to deal with this? What would you do? speaker-2: Now it's like, don't know. Cool question. It's a difficult question because I mean, as Carson said, we want to do this in a way that is responsible, that is logical, that is actually, you know, useful, that we're actually helping, but also not taking away somebody's voice completely. How does one balance that? What is the sort of creative solution for that? mean, speaker-1: That's right. speaker-2: There probably are many solutions, right? There are probably many options that, mean, right now I'm not going to sit here and think, well, on the top of my head, that's not my job. You know, I wish I could solve this issue, but it's not in my hands. But it is something that I think it is doable to do it if it's actually to help the young people. think it is doable, but there is, I think it's also a slippery slope of how things could go. And there's always going to be, you know, things that can backfire or there's going to be certain backlash. speaker-1: Yeah. I agree. I mean, what you just said really, really hit me, hit home with me. It's out of my hands, what you just said. And I hate that we feel that way. And that is the reality as well is that it is so out of our hands. It's just kind of whatever they say it's going to be is what it's going to be. Right. But to answer your question, Brandon, I would say open up the discussion, open up the discussion and every capital city and every region in Spain, let people come, you know, invites. Not invite, like let people sign up. Maybe the place can hold a thousand people. Take turns talking, have civilized conversations, know, constructive workshops. Let actually government officials hear what real families from different, you know, socioeconomic backgrounds have to say about this, but really let the people kind of push it in whichever direction it needs to be pushed. than, mean, otherwise we're just going to feel like we're being told what to do. And I don't know about you guys, but when somebody tried to tell me what to do, I tend to do the opposite, or at least I want to do the opposite. I don't know if I will, but it's not a good feeling. And so I hate that it is out of our hands. But that's what I would say would be the number one thing is have a conversation and conversations and don't rush into any one action. Take time, six months, take a year to hear stories and hear opinions from people all over. then. And then we can vote on it. We can, we can vote on things, right? We don't have to vote on people. Maybe we should have more control over policies than we have in the past, or then we do in the present. Like these things affect all of us. We all use it. We're all equally owners of these, of these apps. mean, we're not the ones who created them, but by using them, they exist because of us. should have a say. yeah, in a nutshell, that's what I would do. speaker-0: I think it's important that we, we have to remember who's been affected. So we said like, have like a town hall situation where you have your communication, have a meeting, like you say, with the prime minister or whoever from the government have people from actually from meta from these different. Tech companies have your parents. And then of course you have to have the children. We always forget about the children and they're the ones that are actually going to be affected by it the most. So I have to listen to them and get their input on what do they say? Cause we may think, ⁓ we see, or we think that they see social media this way, but until you actually sit down and talk to them and listen to what they have to say, what maybe is completely different than what we think. you need all those. Exactly. You need all those inputs. speaker-1: hearing their voices. Yeah. It's easier to see it when you have all that information in front of you. And if you get all the parties, like you said, then we can make a, you know, informed decisions. We can, we can consider all the, you know, different angles of this. think about everybody involved and not just hear from the politicians, not just hear from the rich people, not just hear from the poor people. Everybody has a say, everybody has a voice and an opinion and an experience. So you're right. You're absolutely right. speaker-2: are you guys changing the world and being geniuses here? ⁓ speaker-1: No, speaker-2: I think you guys are completely right on that. think, especially I agree here with Brandon that we should have the kids involved as well because we might see it as like our little boomers that we are. Let's just call it as it is, you know? I mean, the kids see us as boomers. They're like, you guys are like 50 years old. And it's like, don't know. speaker-1: ever get one of those? Sorry, sorry. speaker-2: Yeah, but they think that like, we see it in a specific way, but in reality, their experience with social media might be very different than what we actually think, you know? We're probably here thinking like that they're just watching stupid, I don't know, Roblox videos and Minecraft or whatever. And some of them are, which is not very educational either, but most of them probably are not, you know? And they're doing other maybe more productive things. they use the Roblox as, I don't know, to talk to their friends and send a video about this. Hey, did you see this latest video? And they actually, you know, maybe have conversations, but we don't see it as that. speaker-1: No. speaker-2: So I think it's important to also get their voice. But sorry, Karsten, you were saying, did you get one of those? speaker-1: You ever get one of those kids is like you ask them like how old do think I am and they're like 57 it's like Usually I'm not I'm not trying to like to my own norm, but usually they think I'm younger like 28 29. I'll take that I'm like really you see this What do you think's going on for 20 year old losing his hair? Like no man 30. They're like 31. I'm like keep going keep going speaker-0: Yeah, they always go low. It's like I'm not changing your grade. speaker-1: HENDERSON! I'm bad kids. They're the best. We got to protect them. We got to keep them safe online. think that's where all this comes from is just we want to make sure they have the best opportunities and that could be, you it could be happy and healthy and mentally and psychologically. speaker-0: extremely important. speaker-2: Even though none of us have kids, but we still care about them. We work with kids. speaker-1: Yeah, speaker-0: Yeah, we work with kids. are nieces and nephews. speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-1: ⁓ True. speaker-2: So any last words over here? speaker-1: Last words social media companies speaker-2: Opinions? Comments? speaker-1: I think that covers it. think we touched on it beautifully. think we brought it all together. We brought it home. Yeah, we brought it home. That's right. speaker-2: That's it. Until next time. speaker-1: Until next time! Later. Carson, stop rasslin'.