Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 310—Non-profit candidate. Marine Corps with Math degree. Digital trust and safety

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MBA Wire Taps 310—Non-profit candidate. Marine Corps with Math degree. Digital trust and safety · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:15
  Speaker A: Welcome to the clear. Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, September 25, 2023. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 0:27
  Speaker B: Very good. Thank you, Graham.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: So I want to put you on the spot and ask you a question, and we don't have to spend a lot of time on it, but reviewing all these profiles as we do week in and week out, I know that candidates are nervous about the economy, et cetera. And so I wanted to ask you, do you think now is a good time or a bad time to apply to business school?
• 0:48
  Speaker B: I would qualify. It is a very good time.
• 0:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, I actually agree. I think on the one hand, you have at least for the last couple of years, there's been sort of declining volume, so there might be your admissions odds are perhaps a touch higher. And on the other hand, you're not going to graduate until, in most cases, spring of what is it going to be? 25 or something, right. So that's a ways from now. And I think, yeah, it's probably a great time to go to business school. So I just was curious if you agreed. It sounds like you do.
• 1:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, I do. I guess some of the backdrop to that would be what's happening to the second year students from a recruiting standpoint, because there's definitely been some chatter about sort of how that's sort of evening out, given some I guess some of the companies I'm not saying reneging on offers, but rolling back offers and stuff from the previous year. But nevertheless, in terms of admissions, I think it's a very good time.
• 1:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. The thing that's interesting is that with MBA admissions, I feel like candidates are often focused on what are the current second years doing? When the reality is that you need kind of a crystal ball a little bit, because it's really a couple of years out that you should be thinking about what the job market kit will look like. So it's challenging. But anyway, I think, yeah, it's a great time to apply. Speaking of that, we're going to be sitting down this Wednesday for our final Essay Insights event. It's been a series of there have been three events. Well, this will be the third. So I'm going to sit down and talk with admissions representatives from Wharton, Elsom, UVA, Darden and Michigan ross you can still sign up. There's still some room left. You can go to cafallsays all one word, all lowercase. Those events have been going really well, as always, and they're great. I always kind of marvel at some of the tidbits that these admissions officers give out that really, I think, are helpful as you're applying to these programs. So if you're targeting any of the schools I just mentioned, definitely tune in and join us this Wednesday at noon Eastern. It'll be about an hour, and then the schools actually bounce off into individual zoom breakout rooms where you can ask them questions at the end of the hour. So join us for that. Alex, I wanted to ask you about something else. I know that you were featured in the little article that we did about this, but Business Week or Bloomberg Business Week released their NBA rankings last week, and I was just kind of curious if you wanted to weigh in. I can run down the numbers really quickly here. They rank us. Schools and international schools separately. So we'll start with kind of the big US. Programs, and I'll just give you the top ten, and I'd just love to have your thoughts. Number one was Stanford. Number two was Chicago Booth. There was a tie for third place with Tuck and Darden. Fifth place belongs to Columbia. At 6th. We've got Harvard Business School, then Kellogg, Wharton, Michigan and MIT Sloan rounding out the top ten. So there was some movement amongst that group between this year and last year. But yeah, what do you make of this ranking?
• 3:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, they got the right schools, not just in the top ten, but I actually looked further into that sort of top 25 bucket. I think they got the top 25 program reasonably captured in that top 25. I just think the order in some of these rankings is a little bizarre. Yeah. To me it's quite clear stanford, Harvard, and Wharton are the top three. And we talk about these tiers quite a lot on this show and how we think about rankings. And certainly this ranking does not follow the sort of tiers that we've sort of understood over the years. At the end of the day, I think these rankings are really useful for candidates when they first start thinking about the types of programs they're going to apply. But I do think candidates have access to so much information now, probably a bit of information overload, quite honestly, but they ultimately end up making great choices for the schools that they're targeting and don't simply rely on one ranking, which could be a little bit misleading, I think.
• 5:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I would also just say that we're not defending some kind of old guard of like, oh, this is the way the ranking should be, and they never should change in terms of the order of schools. But what we're saying when you talk about tiers and things, we're basing that on years and years of data, most of it quite recent in terms of how candidates behave when they're offered at School A and School B. So that's all we're saying. But I think one thing that's great is that I would argue that if you look at the top 25 schools in Business Week or US. News, or if you strip out the US. Schools from the Ft ranking or something, you'll see a lot of the same names over and over again. And that's really the value of the rankings, I think, is just to make sure that you're looking at schools that are really well respected, et cetera. And after that it gets into your personal preferences, your goals, where you want to be geographically, all that stuff. So I did want to mention they did the European schools, and I'm living in Paris. I'm just kind of always keeping an eye on these too. And so for the European schools, the top ten were Boconi at number one in Milan. Number two was ESA number three, IMD, followed by INSEAD, london Business School, ie Business School, mannheim in Germany, st gallen in Switzerland, cambridge Judge, and then Oxford rounding out the top ten. And my view on this is that I think they have most of the right schools. I think, again, one could argue with the ordering of them. And I will say I was kind of wondering where Ashes Paris is because they're not on the list, which struck me as kind of OD. So, in any event, it's just interesting to mean I want to give Business Week a little bit of kudos. At least they're doing kind of the European schools, and I like the fact that they're not mixing them all together. I think that's one of the things that always struck me as OD about the Ft. I think you just have to go by region when you're making these programs, because for one person, a school in Europe is going to mean one thing, and for another, it could mean something totally different depending on where they want to work afterwards.
• 7:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 7:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, so, all right, let's move on from that. I did want to mention we had a couple of things on the website. We did an admissions tip.
• 7:24
  Speaker B: You're not asked what's going on on the wires. Greg.
• 7:26
  Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. So wait, give me the deadlines again, what's been happening, because I know that you're going to talk about something. I did see something happen over the last week that pertains to a school that gets interview invitations out relatively early every year.
• 7:41
  Speaker B: So talk about so Yale, as they have done season after season recently. Anyway, their application deadline was September twelveTH. They're already rolling out interview invites. And what it appears that they do is they take an initial look, however they do that, and get out interview invites quickly to perhaps what they consider, based off of the sort of metrics and average test scores and various other things, some quick invites and get those out there before then. One would presume they do a deeper dive in the review process to then roll out other interview invites and so forth. But yeah, we're starting to see Yale's interview invites, obviously Kellogg too, on LiveWise seeing interview invites from Kellogg, because Kellogg effectively invites all the candidates that they can. They like to interview everybody. They certainly interview everyone that ultimately gets an admissions offer for Kellogg. Candidates really need that interview invite. If they get an interview waiver, that's not a good thing. But we're starting, obviously, because basically Kellogg is inviting, effectively trying to invite everybody that as soon as they apply, they should start seeing activity about that interview invite. We've also got deadlines upcoming this week. Graham with Tuck Sloan is the last of the M Seven to have its round one deadline that's coming up this week. Side, Oxford Side has its stage one deadline and Fuqua has its round one deadline. It already has had an early action deadline. But yeah, activity is picking up.
• 9:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So thanks for catching me on that, because I know our listeners like to hear the updates on what they need to do this week. So that's useful. We did do an admissions tip, speaking about applications and getting them in on time. We did a tip about how you should talk about the school you're applying to in your essays. And it's called avoid the comparison trap. And it's all about this. Sometimes people have a desire to actually talk about other schools they're applying to in sort of contrast and sort of explaining to the school they're applying to why they're better than School X or whatever. And so you'll see, there's a lot of really deep dive advice in this piece about how to talk about the school and how to avoid picking just the few things that the school kind of shouts from the rooftops. On their website over and over again. And to go deeper than the surface level marketing stuff when you're pitching your interest in a school. The other thing that's really cool, Alex, is that that admissions tip, I was reading it and underneath it, it's got the relevant videos from the Admissions Academy that we recorded that relate to this type of stuff in terms of making sure your essays are really perfect. So that's all LinkedIn. I think it was Vic and Lauren on our team kind of figured out which admissions tips meshed best with which videos in our series. And I think that was your idea, too, to get us on that. So everything's kind of connected now, which is really cool.
• 10:58
  Speaker B: That's very good.
• 10:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. So the other thing we did is we connected with Brent Nagamini, who is the admissions director at Washington Foster. We did an admissions director, Q A with him, and he gave some great essay advice. I mean, obviously it's very specific to Foster, but here's what he said, because if you're looking at this school, you need to hear this. He said, essays that stand out are well researched, demonstrate an understanding of the program, its opportunities, and how the applicant authentically sees themselves achieving their goals and contributing to the community. At Foster, a common mistake might be when an essay response could apply to any MBA program. We encourage you to tell your story while connecting the dots as to why Foster. Before you sit down to write your essays, I encourage you to engage with our community, connect with current students, staff, and alumni so that when you do write your admissions essays, you can authentically tell us how you see yourself thriving in the Foster MBA program. So I actually think that's good advice for any I mean, obviously don't write about Foster when applying to Cornell or something, but the general rule, I think, is a really good one in terms of making sure you're authentic, but also that you've done your research and that it.
• 12:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, very, very important advice. I think we covered that pretty well in the Admissions Academy.
• 12:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So if you're watching those videos, you know and then the last tidbit of news before we talk about the three candidates that you've selected for this week is that NYU Stern launched a one year full time MBA program in person in Abu Dhabi on a campus there that they've set up. It's going to take in its first class in January of 25. So it's going to be a January start, and it'll run a year. From the website or the article that we ran, there's a quote. It says it's designed for early career professionals interested in building a career in the Middle East and North Africa. And it says that there was something else about it. Oh, yeah, I know. I wanted to just ask you. I was like, wow, this is interesting. It's kind of a shorter program. They're going to a new market, so they're bringing their MBA program to a different part of the world, and it's in person. So this isn't like an online offering. And I kind of wondered what you thought of that right now, for the time being, we haven't seen MBA programs like Harvard, hasn't set up shop in ten places around the world to offer their MBA, but we see it a little bit INSEAD, has a few campuses. I think Lbs has some offerings in the Middle East. Now, Stern, what do you make of this?
• 13:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Isn't know in terms of geographic reach, like, how do you approach these different markets and so on and so forth. The standard would be to presume that folks in these regions come to your US based program to then learn about how to be really successful in their home markets, which if that's where they want to be in the long run. So for the folks that know that they want to work in that region for the long run, a program like this might actually be really strong for them. We'll see how it goes. We teach this in business, right? It's like, we've got to be agile, we've got to understand our marketplaces, and we've got to tailor our offerings to where the demand is. And if they've seen a particular type of demand in this region and it makes perfect sense. Then we'll see how it goes. Like you say, INSEAD, they have a campus in that region, and some other programs are doing stuff quite like this. But, yeah, I think it's quite interesting. Stern also has these one year tech program, maybe a fashion, so it's almost similar, right. Rather than focusing on a particular sector, they're focusing on a geographic region. So the model is there for Stern. Quite interesting.
• 15:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think it's very innovative. We're in a pretty interesting time, I think, in management education. Anyway, so congrats to them for getting that off the ground. We'll see how it goes. And again, I think you won't be able to apply until well, the first class won't start until January 25, so I'm guessing they'll be taking applications later this year, early next or something.
• 15:28
  Speaker B: I'd follow. One quick question, though, Graham. Do you think it increases the demand for Stern's traditional two year program in New York City or has a negative effect on the demand for that program?
• 15:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because if you're living in the Middle East, you'd say, wow, I can just go locally one year. It's still NYU Stern. But I would argue that I personally think there is such a draw to go to New York and to have an American experience while learning, know, business and things that I think it's two different things. And I think that this may appeal to people who were never going to leave in the first place and who are maybe sponsored. I think it'll be okay for them. And I think if anything, it might build their brand. It'll just help people be more aware.
• 16:13
  Speaker B: Could increase the interest in some folks going to New York City.
• 16:17
  Speaker A: So there you have it. If you want to reach out to Alex or me, you can write to us at info@clearadmit.com. Use the subject line Wiretaps, and we'll write you back. I think that's it. Alex, should we get into this week's candidates for review?
• 16:31
  Speaker B: Let's kick on. Yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. Our first applicant this week wants to start business school in the fall of 24. So they're applying right now. And they've got Dartmouth, Duke, the Indian School of Business, oxford, Wharton, and UVA on their target list. They've been working in nonprofit for the time being, and they want to get into consulting, although they also mentioned possibly kind of continuing in this kind of nonprofit social impact type work. They do mention that they're primarily interested in companies like BCG, Deloitte, and PwC on the consulting side. And I'm guessing that they'd love to do kind of Si or CSR type work for one of those firms. At the outset, their GRE score is a 325, their GPA is a 3.28. This person's got four years of work experience, and she writes, and I know that this is a woman she mentioned later in her comments. So female candidate and I believe, based in India. And she writes, I wanted to know about safety schools that I could apply to. My GPA and GRE lie within the middle 80th percentile for the schools I'm considering yet, as they're all top programs. I would also like some info on potential safety schools. So, Alex, let's start with just what do you think of this candidacy? And I will add, I mean, she shared some additional data points. So, for instance, she mentioned she's really into classical dance in India and has been doing that for like 15 years, studied economics as an undergrad. The GPA obviously a little bit lower, and it's actually kind of a downward trend. GPA she shared with us due to some health issues in the family. She had to care for her grandmother, who had dementia as she entered into the final couple of years of her studies. So that's kind of the background. I just want to understand from you. What do you make of this candidacy overrepresented, underrepresented? And then also, what about her question about safety schools?
• 18:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, this candidate looks like they potentially could be quite a strong candidate. And it really depends. We know that she works in nonprofit and so on and so forth, but what is her impact, what is her growth? That's really, really important. So it's not just a question of I've worked in this sector and so forth, but we really need to know a little bit more about that sort of growth and impact and that commitment to classical dance. I think that says a lot about someone that's had a long term commitment to something, and they can continue that. That can play quite well, I think, in admissions. Their GRE? 325. That's fine. It's around the median of most of the top schools, even if it might be a point below it's a little bit further below Yale. The GPA is obviously a little bit of an issue at 3.28. They have some mitigating circumstance with their family health issues, so they definitely need to address that in their optional essay. But one thing that sort of struck me about this candidate and this profile is they're very focused on their numbers and then trying to identify safety schools just based off of those numbers. And while I recognize that numbers are easy, then to sort of compare and contrast with MBA admissions is much more than simply the numbers. Right. So there are going to be people that get into, let's say, Harvard with numbers that are going to be lower than this. They're going to have mitigating circumstance. They're going to have really strong sort of professional profile showing that impact and growth and various other things that really allow their profile to stand out, as well as showing that their numbers won't harm them in the rigorous academic side of the program. Right, so my point being, sometimes we see candidates so focused on their numbers to target what schools to apply that I think they can sometimes miss out on opportunities and so forth. So I would say that this candidate potentially could be really strong. Graham they're going to have to mitigate that GPA upfront in the optional yeah, I think a lot of it really will depend on what is this nonprofit work, what is their impact, what is their growth?
• 21:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think, again, definitely an optional essay to explain the GPA, which, I mean, it's three two eight. It's not like it's a two nine or something. So I think they seem to have a reasonable explanation. They did pursue a rigorous undergraduate degree in terms of being an econ and from a top school in India. Yeah, I agree with you, though. I mean, it's not all about the numbers. And I think it's going to come down to how well she articulates what she's done in her work to date and just sort of the passion she has in terms of those accomplishments and progress. I pointed out to her, I think there's already a range of schools on the list. The only thing I would say is that I feel like the schools that might be slightly easier to get into on her list, like, let's say Oxford or something, or even the ISB, they're really different than the offerings she seems to be principally focused on in the States. And so I understand her desire to maybe add some schools, US schools, and I recommended a few to her because we had some back and forth on the website where she left her applywire post. And she mentioned of the ones I'd kind of pointed out that she thought maybe tepper could be an option for her. She definitely wants a Stem program so that she can stay in the US for a few years and work, which is why I'm kind of wondering about the European schools or sorry, the European and then the Indian schools she's targeting. If she really wants to be in the States, she should apply to schools in the States and cast a net accordingly. So, in any event, chose to mention Kelly at Indiana, which would be a great option. Very good MBA program, as you and I know, has been very consistently, kind of top 25 school for decades. So that's another option, too. I think she'll be fine. I think she just needs to make sure the apps are solid and again, explain the GPA in the optional essay and yeah, I feel like she's not going to be super overrepresented. I mean, I think she's female, which helps, even though she's from India, which is a big market.
• 23:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. What about should she apply to Yale?
• 23:13
  Speaker A: Graham yeah, I mentioned Yale, just given her goals and stuff, and she sort of pushed back and said, oh, but their numbers are even higher. And my view is, like you were saying, it's not all about the numbers and I think her numbers I don't think they disqualify her. Obviously, no one's numbers ever truly disqualify them. Well, if you have, like, a 200 on the GMAT and a 1.7 GPA, maybe you probably don't want to, but yeah, no, she should probably give it a shot. I mean, it's probably a really good program for her, and it sounded like the only reason she wasn't applying was because she was scared away by the numbers.
• 23:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think she should apply, and then if she doesn't get admitted, at least she knows that Yale was beyond her reach. At the end of the day, if she gets admitted to a bunch of schools but would have preferred Yale and didn't apply to Yale, then she'll always.
• 24:03
  Speaker A: Agree, so all right, well, I want to wish her the best of luck and thank her for it was great because I asked her a couple of questions. She was really prompt about providing some additional detail to help us offer better advice. So best luck to her as she applies. We'll see how it turns out. She can keep us posted by dropping us an email or adding to her apply wire entry as we go. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps candidate number two. So our second candidate this week is also wanting to start school in the fall of 24. Actively working on those applications, I think has actually submitted most of these. They've applied to Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, Booth, and Wharton. This is a Marine Corps member who wants to pivot it's a pretty big pivot into investment banking or private equity. They have a GRE score of 336, and their GPA is 3.91. They did attend a I believe they attended one of the service academies. Yeah, they were a math major at a service academy, and they have four and a half years of service so far. They're located in San Diego, and they mentioned they worked with Service to School, which is an organization we know that helps military folks to just learn more about the MBA and to get in touch with current students. And they've also connected with the vets clubs at all the schools they're targeting. So, Alex, why'd you pick this person? I mean, the numbers are kind of off the charts, right. Everything seems to line up, and we don't know much about outside activities, but for military folks, that's a little challenging. Anyway. So what do you make of this candidate?
• 25:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, obviously this is a super geek type candidate, right. 3.91 GPA, math major, 336 GRE. Absolutely fantastic. So, yeah, this person no problem on the numbers.
• 25:55
  Speaker A: They're Marine Corps, Alex. So I want to be on the record. You're the one that called them a geek. That wasn't me. That wasn't me.
• 26:05
  Speaker B: But we don't really know what they did as a Marine. Right. But let's assume that it's relative to their overall profile, and they have a really good sort of experience as a Marine, and that checks the box and showcases them very well. I like the idea that they want to go into investment banking. We typically see the typical career path for those coming out of the military is consulting and then maybe an operations leadership role. I mean, that stereotype typing a little bit, but consulting is definitely the preferred path for most. But again, this is a math geek, right. So I like the fact that they're going into investment banking. They're going on the finance side, potentially over to private equity. I would argue that in their applications, they should highlight investment banking as the stepping stone to potentially private equity rather than trying to enter into private equity straight away, which, as we know, is profoundly difficult. But I would assume, Graham, that if their Marine Corps experience is relative to everything else that they present, that this is a super strong candidate.
• 27:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I would ordinarily say, yeah, investment banking or private equity are not as common, like you said, but math major, right? So I can see it. I think the banks won't have any problem. It would be really good to know more about what this person has done in those four and a half years in the service. But again, I have to believe that it's probably been pretty good, I mean, just based on everything else we have here. So assuming that's the case, it should be fine.
• 27:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very good. Strong candidate. I picked this person so we can shorten the show a little bit.
• 27:59
  Speaker A: All right, then I won't say anything else. I want to thank them for their service and for posting on the site. Yeah, best of luck. Hopefully they start to get interview invitations and everything, so we shall see. But yeah, very strong candidacy. Let's move on and talk about Wiretaps candidate number three. So, our third candidate this week, also applying as we speak to join a class in the fall of 24. They have Columbia, Dartmouth, Kellogg, NYU, Stern, Chicago, Booth, and Yale on their target list. This person's been doing analytics consulting, and they want to get into tech after business school companies. On their wish list are Apple, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft. Their GRE score is a 329 and they have a 3.7 GPA. So, again, terrific numbers. Five years of work experience to date. And they mentioned in their notes, they say they're really hoping to get into Tuck or Yale. So I'm guessing that they're looking for kind of a smaller, close knit program. They also shared some pretty interesting stuff about outside activities. They said that outside of work, they do a lot of work with policy advocacy for digital freedoms in their home country, and they meet directly with congressional staffers as a part of a council working with an organization that focuses on online safety for children in the US. So this person, by the way, has dual citizenship. So they have a US citizenship and they did their studies, presumably in the States, but they also have heritage and another nationality in the Middle East. And they mentioned that they're passionate about kind of bringing sort of digital freedom to those markets. And they said that it kind of relates to their job because they do some work in digital trust and safety in any event. So that's kind of their background. I'm going to stop there because you had some really interesting dialogue with this candidate, Alex. So what do you make of their chances, given these schools and just their kind of pitch overall?
• 29:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, quite honestly, again, numbers are very strong. GRE is over the median at 329. I mean, yeah, might be not quite over Yale's median, but for most top schools, strong GPA, five years of experience. I really love their experience. I'm biased, so I'll say that from the outset. But this whole area of sort of trust, digital trust that they're working in and doing sort of outside of work activity and trying to trying to do lots of interesting things, I think in that regard is super sort of topical at the moment and should resonate, I think, with adcom and so forth. And, you know, Graham, I'm working on this Disinformation essay that's now 18,000 words, it's getting quite ridiculous, but even in the UK, we just introduced the UK online Safety Bill last week, after months and months and months of trying to sort out what's a reasonable approach. So that's the sort of work this person is doing. And I think it's the sort of work that's highly topical, highly necessary. So I'm hoping that they can show, through their essays and so forth, the impact that they've had in this area back in their home country with their lobbying outside of work, as well as their direct work experience, and then they can really tie it to strong goals in this area. Because I think digital trust will be an important sort of field as we move. Yeah, I think there's a lot to like about this candidate, Graham, yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker A: And I would just underline the fact that at the end of the day, all business schools are they're in favor of how do I put this? I'm just thinking about how most admissions readers like to hear stories of candidates who are advocating for democratic open markets, free markets, people being able to create and innovate and all that stuff. Right. I think you won't find anyone who's not sympathetic to this kind of cause here. And I think it's a great one. Right, so I agree with you, they have a lot to share and a lot to bring into an MBA program. And hopefully this is the kind of alum that if, as you're reading this, when you're an admissions reader, you're thinking, wow, this is someone who could come into our program. 329, GRE, 37. So they tick the boxes numbers wise. So they'll probably excel academically, but then 20 years from now, they might be doing big time things in their home country. Imagine that there are changes to the government or whatever is happening. They might be at the forefront of that in terms of bringing greater yeah, it's definitely this would be up in admissions, readers think.
• 33:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't agree more.
• 33:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to thank that person for their post. Alex, you picked the last two were pretty straightforward. I mean, obviously they got to get their stuff together and make sure they're telling their story, but I think obviously, hopefully, they'll do well. I do want to thank them for their post.
• 33:23
  Speaker B: One question to you, just because we shorten it up a little bit, they really want to get into Talk and Yale graham, what do you think of.
• 33:30
  Speaker A: I just I think that they clearly there's something about those two communities that's resonating with them. I think with Yale, obviously, there's a lot of great opportunities to do additional studies within the university that could relate to policy and things like that. It sounds like. Yeah. Maybe they're just drawn to these kind of close knit, smaller programs, and hopefully they get into all of these and have some nice, hard decisions to make. We shall see.
• 33:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. I only asked because, as you pointed out before we came on the show, other schools that they're targeting are in the tier above. So it's quite interesting that Tock and Yale, for this particular person, their goals and what they're interested in, tock and Yale are the Standout program.
• 34:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. And that's why it goes back to what we said at the top of the show about rankings. There are these 25 schools. They're all pretty great, and you can kind of move within these groups and find what's the right fit for you. So, in any event, thanks for picking these out, Alex, and we'll do it all again next week.
• 34:29
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.
• 34:34
  Speaker A: You, Sam.