Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #69: The Dirtiest Word in Parenting Adult Children | And This One Is for Every Parent

Transcript

#69: The Dirtiest Word in Parenting Adult Children | And This One Is for Every Parent · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_00: The adult child that's really, really stuck, and the parent that doesn't know what to do.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: What words of wisdom can you share with them?
0:08
SPEAKER_05: So I want to I want to speak to the parent who has kids living at home because that's what we're gonna focus on right now.
0:15
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
0:16
SPEAKER_05: And that is it's not okay for you to live in your home and have people living in your home where you're not living as a family unit, where everybody is a participant in life.
0:31
SPEAKER_05: You're not a hotel, you are not the cleaning service, you're not the cook and the chef, you're not the bank, you're a family, and the time is to have the conversation that says, Look, I gave space for you to have this opportunity to figure these things out, and I can sense that you're stuck.
0:57
SPEAKER_05: So as a family, when we get stuck, we just don't let people stay stuck when they live in our home.
1:05
SPEAKER_05: We help people get unstuck.
1:07
SPEAKER_05: And there's two choices.
1:09
SPEAKER_05: You either can participate in getting unstuck, which we will help you do, or you can choose to go live stuck some other place.
1:16
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
1:17
SPEAKER_05: Because I love you too much to watch you waste away any further.
1:23
SPEAKER_05: Not okay.
1:24
SPEAKER_05: It's too painful for me to watch you waste away.
1:27
SPEAKER_05: I know what's inside this person that's standing in front of me.
1:31
SPEAKER_05: I know what an incredible person you are.
1:34
SPEAKER_05: I know how smart you are.
1:36
SPEAKER_05: I know how talented you are, I know how compassionate, and you think of all the qualities that you know to be true about that person.
1:43
SPEAKER_05: And you say, I know those.
1:45
SPEAKER_05: I know that as truth.
1:47
SPEAKER_05: And I have watched you wither away and it's not okay.
1:53
SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna participate in that anymore.
1:56
SPEAKER_05: I love you too much to let that happen.
1:59
SPEAKER_05: So you have to make a choice.
2:01
SPEAKER_05: I'll give you till I'll give you till the end of Friday or the end of Sunday.
2:05
SPEAKER_05: But you have to decide are you gonna fight for you and we'll help fight for you too?
2:12
SPEAKER_05: Or if you're not gonna quote fight for you, then you can't die here in our home and wither away anymore.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for for every parent listening for the permission to say that to their adult child.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: That's what they need, not the kicking out.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: I hope they're not that's not the takeaway.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Because the child's not going anywhere.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: What they need is for you to just say, it's enough.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: It's enough.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, a podcast for parents with adult children in their 20s and 30s who are not moving forward in life and are struggling to connect with them.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: If you're a parent who feels shame, guilt, frustration, disappointment, but you are not willing to give up on your young adult, this podcast is for you.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: My lovely guest today is Catherine Hickam.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: She's a seasoned psychotherapist, a licensed social worker, executive coach, and the founder of Parenting Adult Children Today.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: For over 40 years, Catherine has been helping families navigate the emotional complexity of parenting adult children with clarity and purpose.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: She's worked with thousands of parents, guiding them through seasons of conflict, change, and growth.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Her message focuses on helping parents to reflect rather than react, to trade control for curiosity, and to do the inner work required to become a safe and steady presence in their adult children's lives.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is one of my favorites.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: We reveal the dirtiest word in parenting and how unspoken assumptions can sabotage relationships.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: We also talk about grieving the adult child you imagined you'd have and the life you hoped they would lead, from career and relationship choices to identity shifts and personal views.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: This episode is an important one, offering you suggestions that will challenge you to rethink your parenting perspectives and help you to work through them.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Catherine's wisdom on this topic is refreshing, insightful, and incredibly on point.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Remember to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode, and please share this with another parent who needs to hear it.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Catherine.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Hey, how are you?
4:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: It's such a pleasure to have you here with me on launch.
4:39
SPEAKER_05: I know.
4:40
SPEAKER_05: I'm so excited.
4:41
SPEAKER_05: I just, you're just one of my favorite people, and I'm like a new friend, and like I'm so excited, I got a chance to know you.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: I know, me too.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: I feel exactly the same way.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, I always like to begin each episode by inviting my guest to share a bit about their own story with us, whether it's something that was transformational that drew you into this field, um, why this work matters to you, or even an experience in your own life as a parent.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Just helps it just you become so relatable to the listener.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: So before we dive deep into our conversation, which I know is gonna get deep, um uh I'd love to know more about you know what inspired you to do the work that you do.
5:22
SPEAKER_05: That is such a loaded question.
5:23
SPEAKER_05: I could talk all day about that part, but I'm gonna give you just a few quick things.
5:27
SPEAKER_05: Um, I'll tell you the inspiration is actually my father.
5:32
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
5:33
SPEAKER_05: But it did not start off well.
5:35
SPEAKER_05: My dad and I um had a great relationship the first five years.
5:39
SPEAKER_05: Um, we were I was when I was young.
5:41
SPEAKER_05: And then there was this defining moment when I was five.
5:44
SPEAKER_05: He was a minister and I was at church and he was preaching.
5:48
SPEAKER_05: And my mother was homesick, and I was at the church in the pew that Sunday night, and um a family came in, sat down next to me, a little girl my age, and I'd never met them before.
5:59
SPEAKER_05: And so we're sitting, the service is going, and she taps me on the shoulder and she says, Do you know where the bathroom is?
6:06
SPEAKER_05: And I said, I'll take you.
6:08
SPEAKER_05: So being a good helper, good intentions, I take her to the bathroom.
6:12
SPEAKER_05: I don't talk, I mean, I don't make any noise, whatever.
6:15
SPEAKER_05: I come as I'm walking back in with this little girl, my dad stops his sermon and he says, Kathy Taylor, you sit down and don't you ever do that again.
6:25
SPEAKER_05: So I now have been publicly shamed in front of an entire congregation.
6:31
SPEAKER_05: And if the earth could have opened up and swallowed me whole, it would have been so much better than the shame that I felt in that moment.
6:40
SPEAKER_05: I go home and I'm crying.
6:42
SPEAKER_05: My mother's not really a great comforter, you know.
6:45
SPEAKER_05: Um, she she was okay, but she didn't understand what had really happened.
6:53
SPEAKER_05: So from that moment on, my dad changed the way he parented me.
6:58
SPEAKER_05: He was no longer warm, he no longer told me bedtime stories, he no longer tucked me in.
7:03
SPEAKER_05: He was very firm, he was very um, he was a perfectionist, very demanding.
7:08
SPEAKER_05: My goal as a child became just to become invisible.
7:11
SPEAKER_05: So I was not seen by him out of fear, he would publicly humiliate me and shame me again.
7:16
SPEAKER_05: So I would lay awake at night listening to if my name came up to see what I had done wrong, to make sure I would snap in place and get out of his harm of harm's way.
7:26
SPEAKER_05: So that went on for about 10 years.
7:28
SPEAKER_05: So at 15, I thought, you know, I really want a relationship with my dad.
7:31
SPEAKER_05: So I made an appointment with the secretary and went in to see him, uh, which he proceeds to throw me out of his office.
7:39
SPEAKER_05: Because he said, What are you doing here?
7:41
SPEAKER_05: And I said, I want a relationship with you.
7:42
SPEAKER_05: And I just thought maybe we could talk about it.
7:44
SPEAKER_05: And he says, You get home, we'll talk about it when I get home.
7:47
SPEAKER_05: And he was not happy with me.
7:49
SPEAKER_05: And we never had that conversation.
7:52
SPEAKER_05: So, fast forward, I'm 25.
7:55
SPEAKER_05: I have been to college, I've been to graduate school, I've become a therapist, I've had three or four years of my own personal therapy and working on my healing and um repairing the damage that had been done.
8:07
SPEAKER_05: And I've married, and so I'm gonna try one more time.
8:10
SPEAKER_05: So I set up this time with my dad and I said, Dad, I want to have a relationship with you.
8:15
SPEAKER_05: And I said, But it cannot be the way we've always had it.
8:18
SPEAKER_05: And he said to me, Kath, I made a lot of mistakes with you.
8:24
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
8:24
SPEAKER_05: And he said, if I could do it over, I would totally do it over.
8:29
SPEAKER_05: But he said, I can't.
8:30
SPEAKER_05: I can't go back and undo what I did.
8:32
SPEAKER_04: Right.
8:32
SPEAKER_05: He says, But what I can do is become the father that you needed, not the dad that you have.
8:39
SPEAKER_05: And in that moment, I saw a man sitting in front of me who was earnest in what he said.
8:46
SPEAKER_05: And for the next 33 years, I had the dad I always wanted.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Catherine, I just got the shivers.
8:53
SPEAKER_05: It was it was the gift of a lifetime because from that moment on, he he was present when we were together.
9:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:01
SPEAKER_05: He would ask me great questions.
9:03
SPEAKER_05: So he was very curious.
9:04
SPEAKER_05: He believed in me, he had incredible confidence in me.
9:08
SPEAKER_05: Um, he honored my my parenting with my children.
9:12
SPEAKER_05: It was all the things I ever could have asked for in a dad.
9:16
SPEAKER_05: That was my gift, the last 33 years of my life.
9:20
SPEAKER_05: And so the the name of the book that I'm I've written has been is gonna is gonna be called Um, It's Never Too Late to Be a Great Parent.
9:28
SPEAKER_03: Right.
9:29
SPEAKER_05: Because I believe in redemption, I believe in restoration.
9:32
SPEAKER_05: I believe that as long as we're willing to grow and change and learn and have humility, I think we can restore or repair most things.
9:43
SPEAKER_05: And I just want parents out there to realize you may not have been a great parent that first season of their life.
9:49
SPEAKER_05: You may have had a lot of extenuating circumstances that were going on that made life really hard that if you could do it over, you'd go back and do it over, like my dad did.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:58
SPEAKER_05: Can we completely be redeemed and restore and work at parenting how we want to parent them now?
10:07
SPEAKER_05: And so that's my inspiration because I'm the beneficiary of somebody who was willing to quote evolve and change and grow.
10:15
SPEAKER_05: And I just think if we're willing to do it, I don't think there's any ceiling on what can happen.
10:20
SPEAKER_05: I could do that because I was healed.
10:22
SPEAKER_05: Yes, right, and I had done the work that needed to be done to be able to go back to have the conversation because I wasn't angry.
10:31
SPEAKER_05: I had forgiven him and I had healed from the from the wounds that I had experienced.
10:37
SPEAKER_05: But I think most adult children haven't done the work, right?
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:42
SPEAKER_05: And they may not even believe that it can be different because of their own wounds that they've yet to heal from.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:51
SPEAKER_05: And not every wound they have is inflicted, inflicted by the parent.
10:54
SPEAKER_05: Some of it are some of the choices that they've made too, right?
10:57
SPEAKER_05: But I think the real thing is that if a parent's going to approach an adult child because it has been a rough and rocky road, we can't go in with the idea of being defensive.
11:08
SPEAKER_05: We can't go in with the idea of trying to justify or explain.
11:11
SPEAKER_05: We have to go in with a degree of humility and say, you know, I I really blew it with you in some ways.
11:17
SPEAKER_05: And I am so sorry.
11:19
SPEAKER_05: You know, that is, I love you.
11:22
SPEAKER_05: And I had some really crappy ways of showing it back then.
11:26
SPEAKER_05: And I could go into a hundred different reasons why, but that's not that's that doesn't justify the fact that I hurt you.
11:32
SPEAKER_05: And I'm so incredibly sad about that.
11:35
SPEAKER_05: And I know it's hurt our trust.
11:38
SPEAKER_05: And I would love to be able to spend the rest of my life figuring out how we can work together so you can learn to trust me.
11:46
SPEAKER_05: You know, being able to say that really is so powerful because the worst that they can say, and don't get me wrong, it's bad, is well, I don't want you.
11:55
SPEAKER_05: It's like, okay, just know that I'm here when you're ready, if you're ever ready.
11:59
SPEAKER_05: And that doesn't mean it'll be forever.
12:01
SPEAKER_05: Because let me tell you something, we can't write the end of our story for the rest of our lives today, because too many things in life happen.
12:09
SPEAKER_05: But maybe for this day, we don't have a relationship, or maybe they're not ready.
12:14
SPEAKER_05: Maybe they have to walk.
12:15
SPEAKER_05: And here's what I'll tell you when when our adult children have their own children and they walk through some hard places with them, it's amazing the how the humility starts to seep back in, right?
12:26
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree with you more.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that is the pivotal moment in their life.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: They could have the pivotal moment.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
12:31
SPEAKER_05: There was a a recent story of a gal who had cut her parents off and wouldn't had not had a communication with them in years.
12:40
SPEAKER_05: And her children grew up and they did the same thing to her.
12:43
SPEAKER_05: The young adult population is being very short-sighted because how you're living is how your children will now define what normal is.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
12:52
SPEAKER_05: If you cut your parents off, yes, that's now becomes your children's definition of what it means that oh, if we get into a problem and I'm in my 20s, I can just cut them off and it's okay.
13:03
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
13:04
SPEAKER_05: That's what normal is, right?
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Be very, very careful what you do in 100.
13:09
SPEAKER_05: No, I do need to put this little asterisk up here.
13:13
SPEAKER_05: If you came from a background where you were sexually abused, 100% go with that violated, yes, you have every right to cut off, keep at bay, and not allow them into your space.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Amen to that, sister.
13:29
SPEAKER_05: I'm not supporting letting those type of parents into your world.
13:33
SPEAKER_05: Agree.
13:34
SPEAKER_05: What I'm talking about, which is about 80 to 90 percent of the population, we're not talking that group.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:40
SPEAKER_05: We're talking about we have political differences, we have values differences, we have, you know, faith differences, whatever those differences are, we've allowed those to trump the relationship.
13:54
SPEAKER_05: And I keep saying to parents, we cannot let an issue become more important than the relationship.
14:01
SPEAKER_05: And when we do, we've got a problem.
14:03
SPEAKER_05: And we got to step back, take a breath, and go, where did I allow an issue to be more important than my child?
14:11
SPEAKER_03: Right.
14:12
SPEAKER_05: One of the big issues is with when you're dealing with like trans just gender issues, like parents just can't handle it.
14:18
SPEAKER_05: I I was reading a thing last night about this gal who um back in the 80s, it was when AIDS was so, so rampant and they didn't have anything to help people with AIDS, and people were just dying so rapidly from it.
14:35
SPEAKER_05: And they would call the family, the parents, and say, you know, he's dying, and they go, good riddance, like they just couldn't come.
14:42
SPEAKER_05: And this one woman took it upon herself to care for like a thousand different people over the course of her lifetime who were dying of AIDS whose families had abandoned them.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable.
14:55
SPEAKER_05: And the sadness of being abandoned.
14:58
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, I'm like, I really want parents out there to think, is there really something that would make you not love your kid?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: I know.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: I I can't.
15:07
SPEAKER_05: It's like I don't I don't connect to that.
15:09
SPEAKER_05: Me neither.
15:09
SPEAKER_05: Do I always like choices my kids make?
15:13
SPEAKER_05: No.
15:14
SPEAKER_05: No, they don't always like choices I make.
15:16
SPEAKER_05: Right.
15:17
SPEAKER_05: Right?
15:18
SPEAKER_05: We're different.
15:19
SPEAKER_05: But boy, what does the word unconditional love mean?
15:22
SPEAKER_05: And if you if we can't get it from a mom and dad, then I'm not really sure that it's possible.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, by the way, for that asterisk.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Parent, we are no in no way, shape, or form saying you must repair the wounds of that level of abuse.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: You have absolute permission to live your life and never ever repair that wound.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: They don't deserve you.
15:43
SPEAKER_05: It would not be safe.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:45
SPEAKER_05: Right.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, I know people who have been abused and they keep their, they stay away because they have children and they don't trust the parent with their children.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: So I don't want you near my children.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: So for that reason alone, they don't have to have a relationship.
15:59
SPEAKER_05: No, and I think I think they often are in great conflict because they hear a lot of what you should do.
16:06
SPEAKER_05: And and there are just some relationships that are so severe that it can't be done that way.
16:12
SPEAKER_05: It's sad.
16:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
16:14
SPEAKER_05: It's really sad.
16:15
SPEAKER_05: But adult children have to take care of themselves now.
16:19
SPEAKER_05: With that being said, that doesn't mean that I think a majority of adult children have the right to cut off their parents because they don't agree with politics or values or whatever.
16:30
SPEAKER_05: I don't, I don't think that's right either.
16:31
SPEAKER_05: I think, and no matter which direction it goes, we've got to learn how to have hard conversations respectfully and kindly without it activating, you know, our central nervous system and sending us over the edge.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:44
SPEAKER_05: People are just too reactive in and and their emotions, they get scared.
16:50
SPEAKER_05: And that's that's the real core issue, Sherry.
16:53
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
16:54
SPEAKER_05: People are so fear-driven and they don't know that's what it is.
16:58
SPEAKER_05: But every bad decision that we've ever made, every impulsive comment that we've ever had has come from a place of fear.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: There are not many coaches for parents of adult children, and the very few that I'm familiar with don't bring anything original to the table.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: No disrespect to them.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: It's just my opinion.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: But I find your approach so refreshing.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: You're a straight shooter, you do not soft pedal.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: You're you are beautiful and gracious and how you deliver the message.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: But you you give parents what they need.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: You give them the tough love and and the permission to be confident again and to love on their children in the way that their children need them to be loved on.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: All right.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about the dirtiest word in parenting.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:56
SPEAKER_05: And it's a big one.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: But the reason why I'm calling it the dirtiest word and not just a dirty word, as we spoke about, is because there's a few contenders here.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, so for clarification, uh, these are words or constructs, rat rather, constructs that parents don't admit to or they won't say out loud because it makes them feel uncomfortable.
18:19
unknown: Right.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: You can elaborate on that if you want to, but um, which is the last thing we want parents to feel.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, because that level of it's we're not, you know, we're not looking to blame, we're we're asking them to take responsibility.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And and becoming aware of these feelings is like then is the step towards repairing your relationship and to helping your adult child move forward.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: So that that's fair assessment to say.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay, completely.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: All right.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: So there is one word, more than any other, that quietly, you know, shapes the the tone of and you're smiling.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: So for anyone who's listening, when I smile, it's because I love what you're saying.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: When you smile, like you, I you know where I'm going with this.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: But there is that one word.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, it shapes the relationship, it it erodes the closeness, it leads to disappointment, which to me is the real culprit here.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: But before we declare the dirtiest word in parenting, let's first talk about some of those leading contenders.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: Now, I just dropped this on you, so I'm gonna go first.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: So give you a chance.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: So one of them for me is boundaries.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Because parents really struggle with boundaries.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes, they do.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: First, there's a misconception, which we're gonna clear up.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: But even when parents understand them, they're afraid they're gonna damage the relationship, they're afraid they're gonna come across as cold or unloving.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, they worry that setting the boundary will build a wall or create more distance between them and their adult child.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And then there's the guilt.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Many parents already feel responsible because their adult child is struggling.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: So setting boundaries is like adding insult to injury, if you will, and putting more strain on their relationship instead of helping it.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: The misunderstanding, and I'm talking a lot, but I'll let you jump in in a second.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: The misunderstanding is that boundaries get framed as rules that are imposed upon by over-controlling parents when they right, when they really are about respect and structure, which is lacking.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: So in fact, this is something that I thought about earlier.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm convinced that parents are more comfortable being needed than being respected.
20:29
SPEAKER_05: Yes, I right there with you.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Which is why I declare that one of the contenders um is boundaries, because of how uncomfortable it makes parents feel.
20:39
SPEAKER_05: I would agree.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Now, you can you can add to that or you can nominate another dirty word before we reveal the winner.
20:46
SPEAKER_05: No, I think that's I think that's one of the major, major challenges because I've always looked at boundaries as like bumper rails, bumper guards.
20:57
SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, like when you're teaching a little kid how to bowl, like you put the bumpers in the thing so they don't go off the lane.
21:06
SPEAKER_05: I look at that in a relationship as protecting the relationship.
21:09
SPEAKER_05: But I think where we get into trouble with most parents is that it's the way they deliver.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:16
SPEAKER_05: It's their delivery type, it's not the words or as much in the significance, it's how they do it.
21:25
SPEAKER_05: And our how is what our children organically react to because they have 18 years of living in our homes when they would see us lose our stuff and it would trigger fear.
21:37
SPEAKER_05: And that when we start to quote, make a declaration of some kind, if we're not really aware of how we're doing it, we're we're screwed.
21:47
SPEAKER_05: We're just screwed.
21:48
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
21:49
SPEAKER_05: Right.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_05: And my when my daughter came home, she'd been really sick and she came home to live with me for a while.
21:55
SPEAKER_05: And one of my boundaries with her was she had a dog.
21:58
SPEAKER_05: And I said, You can, you may live here.
22:02
SPEAKER_05: Um, I want to support whatever's happening with you in whatever way I can.
22:06
SPEAKER_05: But I need you to be aware of one thing.
22:08
SPEAKER_05: I will not take care of your dog.
22:11
SPEAKER_05: I will not be the one who gets up and lets it out.
22:13
SPEAKER_05: I will not be the one who has to get home early because your job goes late.
22:18
SPEAKER_05: I will not be responsible for this dog in any way, shape, or form.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: You just said the key word, one of the keywords, and you said it four times.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: I count it.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: You said I.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: I this is not about you will take care of your dog.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: You, you, it's I.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: When you say a boundary that starts with I instead of you, then they it's like remember back in the day when I feel when but in therapy, talk about how you're feeling.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: The second you said I four times, and that's what parents need to understand.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to have something that you feel very strongly about.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: These are your core values.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: This is I I say this a hundred times.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm, but I can never say it enough because I I want parents to feel comfortable declaring their own boundaries, and that's what establishes respect.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure your daughter had no issue.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: She didn't.
23:08
SPEAKER_05: No, you know, she never did.
23:10
SPEAKER_05: There were times when she lived with me, I would say, hey, would it would it be helpful if?
23:16
SPEAKER_05: And I would offer to take the dog for to do something or whatever.
23:21
SPEAKER_05: But it it was at my request.
23:24
SPEAKER_05: It was it was very clear because I my life was I'm in and out all the time.
23:28
SPEAKER_05: I my calendar is looks like a Christmas tree with light bulbs.
23:32
SPEAKER_05: It just kind of like I'm everywhere.
23:33
SPEAKER_05: You know, when you spend a hundred nights on the road, right?
23:36
SPEAKER_05: You don't know your life isn't consistent.
23:40
SPEAKER_05: Um, and I didn't want to commit to something that I knew I couldn't do.
23:43
SPEAKER_05: I had been responsible my whole life.
23:45
SPEAKER_05: It was like I just was for the first time not being responsible for anything or anybody.
23:49
SPEAKER_05: I know I didn't want to even be responsible for a four-legged creature of any kind, not even a two-legged creature.
23:55
SPEAKER_05: So it we never had a problem because she understood, she respected it, and she lived her life as if she didn't have me around to take care of her dog.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:05
SPEAKER_05: So it's a question though, it I but I was kind, I wasn't mean.
24:10
unknown: No.
24:11
SPEAKER_05: And I loved the dog, you know.
24:13
SPEAKER_05: Um, but it was like I didn't want the responsibility of one more thing to have to take care of.
24:19
SPEAKER_05: And I'm a pet person, so that's kind of hard for me.
24:21
SPEAKER_05: But at the end of the day, it's a question of our how impacts because our kids carry trauma from the first 18 years of how we spoke to them.
24:34
SPEAKER_05: And just how we say their name triggers all kinds of memories.
24:40
SPEAKER_05: So we really have to be emotionally aware of when we're dealing with something hard, our approach will determine oftentimes whether it can be heard or not be heard.
24:52
SPEAKER_05: That's what a family is.
24:53
SPEAKER_05: Like it's a family unit.
24:54
SPEAKER_05: And if you come home to live with me, you're becoming a part of my family unit.
25:00
SPEAKER_05: And there are some non-negotiables in our family unit.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Non-negotiables.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: That's that's it.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Core values, non-negotiables, things I'm just uncomfortable with, things that I would just make make our lives easier living in this house.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, meal sharing, cleaning.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is it like I've done my nurturing for you?
25:19
SPEAKER_00: I've wiped your ass.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: And your nose, right?
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Your nose.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Every orifice in your body I've wiped.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do that anymore.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: So I think but boundaries is something we have to get over, we have to get them over the hump.
25:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
25:35
SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm it's that's one of my my dripping faucets, yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's the parent that suffers without setting the boundaries.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: So but this word that we're gonna come up, this dirty word, this is this is affecting the relationship.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's why it's it does uh it does win the award.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, do you want to add another word or do you want to because you're gonna say the word, but do you want to add something else that you feel?
25:55
SPEAKER_05: I mean, yeah, I think one of the nominees for your constructs happens to be the issue of control.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Great, let's talk about that.
26:03
SPEAKER_05: We have the opportunity to have a lot of influence in their lives.
26:07
unknown: Right.
26:07
SPEAKER_05: The one thing we do not want is control.
26:10
SPEAKER_05: Because if we put ourselves in a position of control, then we are definitely the target for blame.
26:16
SPEAKER_05: It is a no-win situation.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: You are so right.
26:20
SPEAKER_05: So I think we think if I if only I could, I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no.
26:27
SPEAKER_05: You don't want to go anywhere near that because you know it's one thing to support, it's another thing to become an ally, it's another thing to be a resource, but the issue of control is about your fear.
26:40
SPEAKER_05: Yes, control is always about our fear, and and with that comes a lot of insinuations that our children will in create in their own head as to what it means.
26:53
SPEAKER_05: So we may not have thought it through to that point, but it's about our fear, and then we then we hand our fear over to them by being controlling, right?
27:04
SPEAKER_05: So now we've got two groups of people who have fear, the parents and the kids.
27:10
SPEAKER_05: And then the real issue is the issue gets lost because the kids then focus on how to manage the parents and their control instead of the issue that may be the real threat.
27:23
SPEAKER_05: What we don't understand with control is that it's very diminishing and it's very disrespectful.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: It is.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: It is.
27:32
SPEAKER_05: And they're trying to quote find their footing as an adult.
27:36
SPEAKER_05: They're trying to figure out who they are and what's important to them.
27:40
SPEAKER_05: And is this what I believe, or is this what my friends believe?
27:43
SPEAKER_05: And is this right for me?
27:44
SPEAKER_05: And who am I?
27:45
SPEAKER_05: I mean, they're asking really, really important questions.
27:49
SPEAKER_05: And when we go in, guns ablazing, right, because we're scared and because we think we have an answer and because you know we know better, those two worlds collide and it is not a pretty sight.
28:02
SPEAKER_05: Good does not come from that.
28:03
SPEAKER_05: Good intentions may have been there.
28:06
SPEAKER_05: Yes, but they don't translate as good intentions.
28:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they're very diminishing and disrespectful to the adult child.
28:14
SPEAKER_05: And you know, one of the studies that came out in 25 from Cambridge, I think it was Cambridge University, was that they uncovered the fact that the brain really isn't finished forming now until 32.
28:26
SPEAKER_05: For years was like 25 or 26.
28:29
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
28:31
SPEAKER_05: The latest research is saying it's really not really solidified until those early 30s.
28:39
SPEAKER_05: So that really changes some things too, in terms of my perspective.
28:42
SPEAKER_05: We need to quote let them have the space of being able to have that room to figure out the answers to these questions as to who they are, not to who we think they are, who we wanted them to be.
28:57
SPEAKER_05: And those are very different worlds.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're getting close.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: I think we should my best.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's reveal.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Let's reveal the dirtiest word in parenting.
29:09
SPEAKER_05: It's expectations, and it starts when we find out we're gonna have them.
29:13
SPEAKER_05: I tell this story because um my son's adopted, and a month before he was born, I got a letter from his birth mother, and it was three pages long.
29:24
SPEAKER_05: And in this letter, it was so thoughtful and so precious, but it had a lot of expectations as to what she thought he should be and who he should be.
29:35
SPEAKER_05: Um and it with good intentions, but she would never hold him, she would never see him, because back then that's how adoption was handled.
29:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it was a closed adoption, but she had expectations of what she thought he should become and who he should be as a person.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
29:51
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, I think it's organic to us when we become a parent.
29:55
SPEAKER_05: We get a vision in our head, and the minute they're born, then we know is it gonna go this path or this path?
30:00
SPEAKER_05: And then their little personalities start to form and they go, oh, they can be this or they can be that.
30:05
SPEAKER_05: And then we look at family history and we look at what other interests are and what their interests are, and we start to paint this picture of who we think they're gonna be and who they should be.
30:13
SPEAKER_05: And like you see it happen over and over and again, whether it's what colleges they're gonna go into, or what if they're gonna be an athlete or they're gonna be, you know, a performer.
30:22
SPEAKER_05: I mean, what all the different pieces, but it then we see the parents' expectations get tied up with what they didn't fulfill in their lives, yeah.
30:32
SPEAKER_05: That they bring to that child.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a there's b, there's the social expectations that you want to be proud of your child and tell everybody what your child is doing.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: So that's the other thing.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Because if you were living on a deserted island, uh you wouldn't have the same kind of expectations.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: You'd be like, just get you know, go out and bring us food and make sure we have shelter.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: That's all we need, is let's survive here.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: But you wouldn't have them.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: So, but isn't it funny when we first find out that we're getting that we're getting a baby, wherever that baby comes from, that all we want is for them to be healthy, right?
31:06
SPEAKER_00: And then the second they come to us and they're healthy, we're like, okay, so I've got the healthy, let's go to the next step.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: But I was, you know, as I was thinking about this topic, how many parents say, I just want what's best for my child, or I just want them to be happy, not even realizing that that's an expectation.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: It is.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Best is an expectation, happy is an expectation.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: That alone puts pressure on them.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I was talking to a parent the other day who said, I don't, I don't say to my my adult child, I want you to be happy.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: I say to them, I want you to be okay.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, the bar is pretty low on okay.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's perfectly acceptable.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: If we can just all wake up every single morning and just be okay, what a great day that's gonna be.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hard to, right?
31:52
SPEAKER_00: It's what what is this happy and best?
31:54
SPEAKER_00: And see, happiness is not a state that you can maintain.
31:59
SPEAKER_05: It's just not, it's a moment in time, right?
32:02
SPEAKER_05: We can have glimpses or moments of happiness, but what about peace?
32:07
SPEAKER_05: How about being a person who, you know, I want my kids to live peacefully?
32:11
SPEAKER_05: Yes, because if they are peaceful, that means anxiety and fear is not driving their decisions and making the the biggest impact in their lives.
32:19
SPEAKER_05: You know, I want them to be grounded to where they know who they are and they don't get, you know, swept to and from by the way of the wind.
32:27
SPEAKER_05: I want them to know that who they are is enough and they don't have to have credentials and and all these things around their names in order to make a difference in the world.
32:38
SPEAKER_05: It's like this is we have created an impossible scenario for our children to achieve things that says this will be you'll be happy when.
32:48
SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna tell you, I know a lot of kids who are jumping off the top of towers because they couldn't quote get into the right graduate school.
32:58
SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of suffering families out there because these kids could not handle just life.
33:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
33:06
SPEAKER_05: Because they didn't get in, they didn't get, they didn't get accepted, they got rejected, they did they their dream died, you know.
33:13
SPEAKER_05: And I will tell you, if you talk to Olympic athletes, when they've accomplished the goal, they stand on the podium and they'll go, I've spent my whole life for this moment.
33:23
SPEAKER_05: Is there anything more?
33:25
SPEAKER_05: And it's not that they don't enjoy it, but they've spent, they've given up so much for the moment.
33:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
33:31
SPEAKER_05: Well, now what do they do?
33:33
SPEAKER_05: Can we be with them without having to expect something from them?
33:39
SPEAKER_05: And is there being enough?
33:42
SPEAKER_05: See, I I think we what whatever we didn't get a chance to do in our childhood, we want to make sure they had a chance to do.
33:49
SPEAKER_05: You know, whatever unmet needs we have, we want to make sure their their needs are met.
33:53
SPEAKER_05: And don't get me wrong, I I think some of those things drive us to be better people, better parents, better everything.
33:58
SPEAKER_05: But boy, they can also it can be a double-edged sword.
34:02
SPEAKER_05: Because if our children know that our happiness is dependent upon their success, brutal, brutal.
34:11
SPEAKER_05: And that's why they shut us off.
34:13
SPEAKER_05: That's why they they pull back because they can't meet all the expectations and they don't want to disappoint us.
34:19
SPEAKER_05: The last thing, I mean, I'll tell you, this came from my own experience as a therapist.
34:23
SPEAKER_05: I used to think about this.
34:25
SPEAKER_05: Over 50% of my clientele would never have told their parent, no matter if they were 20, 30, 50, would never have told their parent of anything they did in their life that they thought it was going to disappoint them.
34:40
SPEAKER_05: Because they didn't want to risk disappointing them, hurting them, changing the relationship where the parent couldn't recover from it, feel like they weren't as good as their other siblings, or risk knowing they could be abandoned.
34:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
34:55
SPEAKER_05: That was the reason why they wouldn't tell their parents, like their darkest moment.
35:00
SPEAKER_05: Well, if you can't tell your parent your darkest moment because you're fearful that you will fall from grace with them and they will not trust you or not respect you or whatever, then where do you go?
35:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
35:14
SPEAKER_05: In my definition of parenting, I always said, I want to be the first one you tell the story to.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:21
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna love you.
35:22
SPEAKER_05: I don't, I may not understand how you got there, I can't fix it for you, but I can be with you in it.
35:29
SPEAKER_05: And that to me is what unconditional love looks like.
35:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
35:34
SPEAKER_05: But the more expectations we have of them, the more they pull back and have a secret life.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: The problem with expectations is that when they are not met, it leads to disappointment.
35:48
SPEAKER_05: Oh I've got a perfect story on that.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
35:51
SPEAKER_05: My daughter's friend came home, it was it was her junior year of college, and he was driving through and he said, Hey, can I come by?
35:57
SPEAKER_05: And said, Sure.
35:57
SPEAKER_05: So he stayed for lunch.
35:59
SPEAKER_05: And we'll call him Jason.
36:01
SPEAKER_05: And Jason said to me, Tiffany had gone to the bathroom or something.
36:04
SPEAKER_05: She went in the room, and he said to me, He said, Mrs.
36:07
SPEAKER_05: Sickum, did you know that Tiffany is the only friend that I have who is the same in front of her parents as she is behind their back?
36:13
SPEAKER_05: I don't think anyone's ever said that before.
36:16
SPEAKER_05: I said, I'm really curious.
36:18
SPEAKER_05: What about you, Jason?
36:19
SPEAKER_05: Are you the same in front of your parents as you are behind their back?
36:22
SPEAKER_05: And he said, Oh, no, Miss Sickcom, I'm not.
36:24
SPEAKER_05: And he said, Well, what's that about?
36:27
SPEAKER_05: And he said, I know what my parents expect of me.
36:30
SPEAKER_05: And if I go home and I'm myself, my mom cries and my dad gets mad.
36:36
SPEAKER_05: So when I'm with them, I just become who they want me to be.
36:39
SPEAKER_05: And when I walk out the door, I go back to being myself.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: That's so unfortunate.
36:42
SPEAKER_05: I was so heartbroken.
36:44
SPEAKER_05: This was a precious young man.
36:46
SPEAKER_05: I adore this kid.
36:47
SPEAKER_05: I would have claimed him as my own any day of the week.
36:50
SPEAKER_05: And the idea that he couldn't be himself without it disrupting the family and upsetting the apple cart, I thought to myself, we're in trouble if this is the definition of normal.
37:03
SPEAKER_05: So I got really curious with his comment about Tiffany being the only one and all these other people.
37:08
SPEAKER_05: So I really started exploring it.
37:09
SPEAKER_05: And I had to tell you, he was right.
37:11
SPEAKER_05: And I had, you know, exposure to a lot of people at that time.
37:16
SPEAKER_05: And I'd say, Are you the same?
37:18
SPEAKER_05: And they go, Oh, no, no.
37:19
SPEAKER_05: Because I know what that is.
37:21
SPEAKER_05: And I know because I saw how they handled my siblings.
37:24
SPEAKER_05: I saw how they talked about other people's kids behind their back.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:28
SPEAKER_05: So I know what they believe.
37:30
SPEAKER_05: I know what they think.
37:32
SPEAKER_05: I'm not risking that.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Why is it so hard for parents to let go of the future they imagined for their kid?
37:40
SPEAKER_05: Because they haven't worked through and figured out what their worth and value is.
37:44
SPEAKER_05: It's attached to what their kids is.
37:46
SPEAKER_05: They they don't have their own.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: I love that answer.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's about you.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: It's about you.
37:52
SPEAKER_05: It's about you.
37:53
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, that's really my premise, right?
37:55
SPEAKER_05: My premise is parenting is not about your children, it's about how you show up in the relationship.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:03
SPEAKER_05: It's all about us as parents.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: I could just sit back and listen to you all day because it's so it's so refreshing to hear someone who believes everything I believe in, but I can't keep talking about it in my own head.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: So that's why this podcast is great.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: I get to have guests like you who just share in the same thing.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: And so parents can finally go, Yeah, it is about me.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: You're right, it is about me.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: It's my my my cross to bear, so to speak.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: The expectations my parents had for me, and now I've done it to my children, and now my children are doing it to themselves.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Now they're they're living through these expectations that they can't meet, or they think they're they're disappointed in themselves for not achieving.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: I know there's a lot of kids that go, I I failed that, I didn't get into this, like you said.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: So now they're disappointing themselves.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: So that they're this torch of expectations is being passed on from generation to generation.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: In your practice, what what's the transformation you see when you get parents to understand that these expectations are driving a wedge between them and their children?
39:06
SPEAKER_05: You know, I will tell you, it has done a 180 in a lot of relationships.
39:10
SPEAKER_05: The minute they start to connect the dots and the minute they start to quote step back.
39:14
SPEAKER_05: And you know, and one of the things, you know, I tell parents, Sherry, is that I want you to really look at the last the last several times that you've been with your adult child, right?
39:28
SPEAKER_05: And I want you to look at when did you get triggered?
39:30
SPEAKER_05: Did you get triggered?
39:31
SPEAKER_05: You know, if you got triggered, I want you to identify what was the fear that caused that trigger.
39:38
SPEAKER_05: I want you to really get honest with yourself.
39:40
SPEAKER_05: What was that fear about?
39:42
SPEAKER_05: Like let's just take holidays, right?
39:45
SPEAKER_05: When you talk to parents about holidays, oh, we don't have any expectations, we're just gonna all get together.
39:49
SPEAKER_05: Well, guess what?
39:50
SPEAKER_05: If the kid doesn't come home when they think they're coming, or they don't stay as long, or they don't want to do the traditional things that we've always done, like maybe a Christmas Eve service or a, you know, some kind of a tradition that they've had.
40:02
SPEAKER_05: If if things are different, they get all bent out of shape.
40:06
SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, of course, this is what we do, right?
40:09
SPEAKER_05: It's like they they want to continue doing what they've always done because this is how we built our memories.
40:14
SPEAKER_05: These are the things that we cherished and we treasured, but maybe they don't work anymore the same way.
40:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
40:19
SPEAKER_05: And maybe our kids can't stay as long.
40:23
SPEAKER_05: And maybe they have to alternate holidays.
40:27
SPEAKER_05: Well, now we have a different conversation.
40:30
SPEAKER_05: Well, can we handle that conversation with grace or do we take it personally and do we react?
40:35
SPEAKER_05: And then do we get mad and then say things we regret?
40:39
SPEAKER_00: All of it because of expectations.
40:41
SPEAKER_05: It creates such a problem because then especially as you start to add new family members into it, now you've created walls instead of bridges.
40:53
SPEAKER_05: And those bridges are so important, and those walls take a while to tear down because it's about trust.
41:02
unknown: Yeah.
41:02
SPEAKER_05: And that's where I'm seeing, you know, we don't know how to have hard conversations.
41:07
SPEAKER_05: The other thing, too, Sherry, though, that I think is really important, we have to be able to grieve our expectations.
41:14
SPEAKER_05: And this is one of the things I I try to get parents to do is to make those lists of all your expectations as much as you possibly can.
41:23
SPEAKER_05: And whether it's with finances or you know, life choices of partners or lifestyles or location, whatever those things are.
41:33
SPEAKER_05: Try to figure out where your expectations are on those things.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: So this is not about just your expectations for your adult.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: This is in your own taking inventory of your own expectations of the life.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:45
SPEAKER_05: Because here's the thing we don't do.
41:47
SPEAKER_05: We don't grieve lost expectations.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is beautiful, Catherine.
41:53
SPEAKER_05: And we need to.
41:55
SPEAKER_05: And when we don't, it impacts us and it impacts our kids.
41:58
SPEAKER_05: Can I I'm gonna have time to share one?
42:00
SPEAKER_00: You have all the time in the world.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't Okay.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if this and if nobody listens to the end of this.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: That's that's their loss.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: This is good stuff.
42:09
SPEAKER_05: So this happened with my um, we were at a wedding, my son's one of his dearest friends got married.
42:16
SPEAKER_05: And we were all at the wedding.
42:18
SPEAKER_05: My daughter and my husband had officiated, my ex-husband had officiated the wedding.
42:22
SPEAKER_05: And so we it came time for the mother-son dance.
42:25
SPEAKER_05: And the his mom, who's a really good friend of mine, and and her son, get up to do the dance.
42:31
SPEAKER_05: And I noticed in that moment I start to cry.
42:36
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, Kath, what is this about?
42:38
SPEAKER_05: And Taylor's back to me, so he can't see that I'm crying.
42:41
SPEAKER_05: Tiffany can see that I'm crying.
42:42
SPEAKER_05: And being the high EQ kid that she is, she reaches over and grabs my hand.
42:47
SPEAKER_05: And I ask myself, what is this about?
42:50
SPEAKER_05: And in that moment, I knew I would never have that moment with Taylor.
42:53
SPEAKER_05: Taylor always dated international women.
42:56
SPEAKER_05: Taylor loved living abroad, he loved being abroad.
43:02
SPEAKER_05: And at the time he had a job in the States, but I got this sense that any of the American traditions that I had raised him with would not be a part of his future.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
43:16
SPEAKER_05: And I realized I needed to release him of that expectation, and I needed to release me from holding on to that so I would not interfere with what he wanted in his life.
43:30
SPEAKER_05: He never had a dream of a mother-son dance.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:34
SPEAKER_05: I had that.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, that is so powerful.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: Parents should grieve these expectations, and that would free their adult children so much.
43:45
SPEAKER_05: And so I I did.
43:47
SPEAKER_05: I gave myself permission to grieve it.
43:50
SPEAKER_05: I acknowledge it to myself, and and I never discussed it with him because it wasn't his it wasn't his problem.
43:58
SPEAKER_05: It was mine.
43:58
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
43:59
SPEAKER_05: So So fast forward four years, I get a call from Taylor.
44:04
SPEAKER_05: He's living in Singapore.
44:06
SPEAKER_05: Hey, mom, I'm getting married in 60 days.
44:08
SPEAKER_05: Would you come to the wedding?
44:10
SPEAKER_05: Son, I will be there.
44:13
SPEAKER_05: Nothing would keep me from being with you on your day.
44:16
SPEAKER_05: So I get on the plane.
44:17
SPEAKER_05: I'm the only family member who's attending this wedding.
44:20
SPEAKER_05: Um, it is 12,000 miles away, a 26-hour flight.
44:25
SPEAKER_05: I know absolutely nobody.
44:26
SPEAKER_05: And I'm going into this wedding.
44:29
SPEAKER_05: She, the wedding was actually going to be in Kuala Lumpur.
44:32
SPEAKER_05: They lived in Singapore.
44:34
SPEAKER_05: So we drove to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and had the wedding.
44:38
SPEAKER_05: And then we went through all the traditions of that culture, of which I'd never been exposed to.
44:45
SPEAKER_05: I'd never met the bride.
44:46
SPEAKER_05: I'd never met her family.
44:48
SPEAKER_05: And it was the week of a lifetime for me because I just was open.
44:53
SPEAKER_05: I had my heart open, my hands open to receive all I could get in that week being with him for a few days, just the two of us, and then being with his family and learning their traditions.
45:05
SPEAKER_05: It was such an amazing experience.
45:07
SPEAKER_05: And not one time did I think about another son dance.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
45:13
SPEAKER_05: But I'd done the work, right?
45:15
SPEAKER_05: I had let it go so I could be ready to receive whatever it was I was going to receive.
45:20
SPEAKER_05: And it was so rich and so meaningful.
45:22
SPEAKER_05: And I think this is what happens when we hold on so tightly to what we think something should be, we miss out on what could be.
45:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
45:32
SPEAKER_05: And what would honor our children and what would honor who they are and how they live and the choices that they make.
45:38
SPEAKER_05: But sometimes we do have to quote, we do have to let it go.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: I love, I love the grieving part, but I'll tell you why be why I have a bit of an issue with letting go.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: It's it's just an opinion of mine, but it's personal.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: For letting letting go for me feels very much like uh, and it's I know it's a tangible thing, but it feels like it feels like letting go of a brick, right?
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Someone says, uh, Sherry, you I have a fear of something, and I'll they'll go, just let it go.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like, yeah, if it was that easy, I would have done it by now.
46:12
SPEAKER_05: Right.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Right?
46:12
SPEAKER_05: That's why grieving, that's why the grief has to be.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: That's I love the grieving.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: I think that's so much more.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: But this is what I do instead of the letting go.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, that's not easy to let go of fear, uh expectations.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Hell no, but fear also, right?
46:26
SPEAKER_00: It's debilitating.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: What I do is I lean in.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because I had this episode.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, my guest talked about leaning in to awkwardness.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: And so leaning in, because for me, leaning in is just about becoming aware.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: If you lean into it, it's you can you can face the feeling, you can accept the feeling, and then that feels easier once you acknowledge it to kind of be with it, be one with my fear.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be there.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be afraid of doing the things I do, but I'm going to do them anyway.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: I love the grieving.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: But when you say let it go, I find that that concept is a bit overused for us.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: And people let it go, just let it go.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: People don't know how to let go, but they do know how to become aware.
47:10
SPEAKER_05: And they do know how to grieve.
47:11
SPEAKER_05: And I think parents are scared to grieve because that means that means I'm giving up.
47:15
SPEAKER_05: Well, no, you're right.
47:16
SPEAKER_05: You're releasing the moment that you have put so much energy in defining that may or may not be true.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: And you make space for possibilities, like you did.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: You had an incredible wedding experience because you made space for it by grieving your ex your expectations.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: I just think there's so much power in that.
47:38
SPEAKER_05: There, let me tell you something, and it happened again with my daughter.
47:42
SPEAKER_05: Three years ago, this week, I had a really bad accident, and um my hand was disconnected from my wrist.
47:53
SPEAKER_05: So um it was three weeks before she got married.
47:57
SPEAKER_05: And so I'm the mother of the bride.
47:59
SPEAKER_05: Um, I no longer had use of my arm and hand and wrist, and so it was we have all these people coming in.
48:06
SPEAKER_05: We have a dress that I had had made for, you know, now I had to go figure out can I wear the dress?
48:13
SPEAKER_05: What about all the activities that go up?
48:15
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you need your mother to be with you with all this stuff.
48:19
SPEAKER_05: And she was so precious and so gracious.
48:21
SPEAKER_05: And she was like, Mom, I got it.
48:23
SPEAKER_05: You just, you just, you just take care of you.
48:26
SPEAKER_05: Let's just get you taken care of.
48:28
SPEAKER_05: But I had had all these dreams of what it meant to be the mother of the bride, to be able to help her with this and to help her with that.
48:34
SPEAKER_05: And I had all these dreams.
48:37
SPEAKER_05: And I had to look, I had to grieve that too.
48:41
SPEAKER_05: Because it wasn't gonna look it all the way I'd spent my whole life expecting it to look.
48:47
SPEAKER_05: Was it special?
48:48
SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
48:48
SPEAKER_05: I was so grateful to be there.
48:50
SPEAKER_05: I was so grateful to see her happiness and her joy.
48:53
SPEAKER_05: So I focused on that.
48:55
SPEAKER_05: But I'm not gonna lie to tell you, I had to do some little grieving privately on the parts that I missed because I couldn't do it.
49:03
SPEAKER_05: So it's like it doesn't have to be big, it can be small, but just a little bit of acknowledgement goes a long way when we need to release things.
49:10
SPEAKER_05: We don't have to, you know, pitch a tent, set up camp, and hang drapes in our in our grief booth.
49:16
SPEAKER_05: We can simply just acknowledge it and admit it and own it so we can get unstuck to move forward in it.
49:23
SPEAKER_05: And it's it changes your world when you can let go.
49:26
SPEAKER_05: It just is such a gift.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: I I want to make sure that for the parent that's listening right now, that's coming to this realization that these expectations are in fact uh in uh impeding their relationship and really kind of not not helping, in fact, probably hurting, creating the distance between themselves and their adult who's very aware of their parents' expectations.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: How what do you suggest for parents who want to create more space, more space for acceptance?
49:56
SPEAKER_05: I think you need to do a really deep dive with yourself and say, what expectations have I held on to for them?
50:04
SPEAKER_05: Did I expect them to go to a certain college?
50:07
SPEAKER_05: Did I expect them to make a certain amount of money?
50:09
SPEAKER_05: Did I expect them to marry a certain type of person?
50:12
SPEAKER_05: Did I, you know, what are the expectations that have I I've attached to my children?
50:16
SPEAKER_05: And then go back and say, which of these are their expectations for their lives and which are mine?
50:21
SPEAKER_05: Yeah because our children should not be the carrying the weight of our expectations for their life.
50:28
SPEAKER_05: And one of the things I'll tell people is, you know, I encourage them to do the work ahead of time, right?
50:34
SPEAKER_05: And not just go throw up on their kid.
50:38
SPEAKER_05: But one of the things I do encourage parents is say, if you have the ability for self-control, yeah, and you don't have to get into a place of justifying, explaining, or defending yourself, you can always ask the question Is there any expectation that you're carrying on your shoulders that you think I have of you that I need to release you from?
51:02
SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
51:05
SPEAKER_05: That's and I just had a friend who did it.
51:07
SPEAKER_05: I just had a friend who did it.
51:09
SPEAKER_05: And it's with her son.
51:10
SPEAKER_05: He's a senior in high school.
51:11
SPEAKER_05: He's trying to make a decision about his future college.
51:15
SPEAKER_05: So she heard me say this on one of my talks, and she went home and she said, Hey, is there anything that you're caring that is interfering that you think I expect of you that I would be disappointed if you made a decision in a certain way?
51:33
SPEAKER_05: And he said, Yes, mom, there is.
51:36
SPEAKER_05: And she said, Well, what is it?
51:38
SPEAKER_05: He he said, I know what college you want me to go to.
51:41
SPEAKER_05: And he said, I know you want me to go to that college because you think if I go there, I will not lose the values and morals that you brought me up with.
51:51
SPEAKER_05: And he said, Mom, you've got to decide if you can trust me.
51:55
SPEAKER_04: That's great.
51:57
SPEAKER_05: And she said, I do trust you, and I'm so sorry.
52:00
SPEAKER_05: She said, I wanted you to go to a place that I thought would support what you believed instead of constantly challenging what you believed.
52:10
SPEAKER_05: But she said, I really need to just step back and put my confidence in who you are.
52:15
SPEAKER_05: And he said, Mom, that would really mean a lot.
52:17
SPEAKER_05: Because I think organically, every child has a very deep longing to know that they are enough for the people who brought them into the world.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is so true.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: So much of this of what's happening with young adults today is because they feel like they're not good enough.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Social expectations is secondary to the parental ones.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: Get that right, and then maybe they will have the courage to be who they want to be because their parents love them regardless.
52:47
SPEAKER_05: And it's a gift that lasts for generations because they get to pass it on to their That's right.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
52:54
SPEAKER_05: So I look at it as a generational blessing.
52:57
SPEAKER_05: Show me the people who are the healthiest in the world, and I will show you the people who don't have to prove anything to anybody.
53:05
SPEAKER_05: They know they're enough.
53:06
SPEAKER_05: And that doesn't mean they're arrogant.
53:08
SPEAKER_05: I'm not saying because arrogant people are truly insecure people.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
53:12
SPEAKER_05: People who are really grounded don't have to be the first person to speak in the room, they don't have to go around proving their value to everybody because they know from the inside out that they're enough.
53:25
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
53:26
SPEAKER_05: And when we can release our kids of all the stuff that's ours, just say, just be the very best version of you.
53:34
SPEAKER_05: Whatever that is, you decide what that gets to be.
53:37
SPEAKER_05: But I believe in you.
53:38
SPEAKER_05: I know who you are, I know what you bring to the world.
53:42
SPEAKER_05: And I still can't believe that I got to be your mom.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: I think it's the greatest gift.
53:48
SPEAKER_05: I think about with my own, right?
53:50
SPEAKER_05: It's like, um, I still can't believe that I got to be the parents of these two amazing people who have taught me far more than I will ever teach them.
54:00
SPEAKER_05: So grateful.
54:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
54:01
SPEAKER_05: So incredibly grateful.
54:03
SPEAKER_05: Because it hasn't been easy, don't get me wrong.
54:05
SPEAKER_00: And just just so our audience knows, your children are not in their 20s.
54:09
SPEAKER_05: No, I have a 41-year-old son and a 40-year-old daughter.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: So, for parents out there with kids in their young adults in their 20s, there's so much, there's so much learning left.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: There's so much learning.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: I I always tell my children when they could have picked any parent, any mother in the world in this or on the earth, they chose me.
54:28
SPEAKER_00: And I say this to them every birthday card.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for choosing me to be your mother.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: I am so grateful.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: This popped into my head.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: So I want to say that the opposite of expectations is meeting them where they are.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: Seeing them for who they are.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: So opposite of expectations is acceptance.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: And they are all gifts to us.
54:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: They're different from us.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: Some of our children push our buttons, some of them are just, they don't think the way we think, they don't dress the way we dress.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: And uh embracing them for who they are.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't want to leave just yet because I want you to talk about your pillars.
55:07
SPEAKER_05: I've watched and observed for a very long time now, working with people uh and really paying attention to what were the foundational pieces that the healthiest people I've ever been with had.
55:22
SPEAKER_05: And then I began to do the inverse and looking at the people who I've worked with who were really broken and wounded, and what did they not have?
55:30
SPEAKER_05: Right.
55:30
SPEAKER_04: That's great.
55:31
SPEAKER_05: And so as I began to put all that together, it became really clear to me that we all need, as humans, we all need four things.
55:38
SPEAKER_05: The very first thing we need is to be truly accepted.
55:42
SPEAKER_05: And that's the reason why we got to get rid of the expectations, is because we really can accept people as long as we think they should be this.
55:49
SPEAKER_05: That means we'll never accept them really for who they are.
55:52
SPEAKER_05: And so acceptance is a core value that if we can give that to our children that says, you're enough, who you are is enough.
56:00
SPEAKER_05: And I believe in who you are, and I accept you for who you are.
56:05
SPEAKER_05: And that's a powerful statement that goes into the very core of their being that they can build on.
56:12
SPEAKER_05: The second thing is, do I respect them?
56:15
SPEAKER_05: Can I show respect?
56:17
SPEAKER_05: And I believe you can show respect to children.
56:19
SPEAKER_05: That doesn't mean we give them a path to live their lives the way they want to.
56:22
SPEAKER_05: And there's a big difference between respecting and giving, you know, a carte blanche for them to do anything they want to.
56:30
SPEAKER_05: To me, that's not that's not good parenting when you give a kid a carte blanche.
56:34
SPEAKER_05: Respect means I'm going to pay attention to how I speak to you.
56:37
SPEAKER_05: Respect means when they're little, I will kneel down and look you eye to eye.
56:41
SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna always tower over you.
56:43
SPEAKER_05: Respect means I'm gonna pay attention to the tone of voice with which I speak to you with.
56:48
SPEAKER_05: Respect means I'm gonna ask for your input when there are age-appropriate places that your input should matter, right?
56:56
SPEAKER_05: I'm going to demonstrate respect by recognizing that you're a person who has a who can have a bad day.
57:03
SPEAKER_05: And I'm not gonna hold it against you that you can have a bad day because you're fully human.
57:07
SPEAKER_05: Um, but I but I'm also gonna expect there to be respect given back.
57:12
SPEAKER_05: And when that doesn't exist, I'm gonna let you know that that's not acceptable, right?
57:17
SPEAKER_05: So respect is it needs to be a common threat on all of our interactions, um, on our worst in our worst moments, and in our best moments, we can be respectful.
57:29
SPEAKER_05: Um, because when I'm respectful to somebody, it changes the way they see themselves.
57:34
SPEAKER_05: They walk taller, they hold their head higher, they say I matter.
57:39
SPEAKER_05: And it says they will not be comfortable when they are mistreated by other people.
57:43
SPEAKER_04: Oh, god.
57:44
SPEAKER_05: And that's important for children to know and to learn and for adults and teenagers to learn, right?
57:50
SPEAKER_05: Yes, so that sense of respect is extremely important.
57:54
SPEAKER_05: Then we move to um the idea is that am I known?
58:01
SPEAKER_05: Do you really know me?
58:04
SPEAKER_05: Or do you know who you want me to be?
58:07
SPEAKER_05: Our adult children, they want us to know them for who they are.
58:12
SPEAKER_05: And that's in the great places and in the not so great places.
58:16
SPEAKER_03: True.
58:17
SPEAKER_05: They need to know they're safe to be their full selves with us, regardless of what that means and what that looks like for the rest of the world.
58:25
SPEAKER_05: And I think our children long to be known by the people who raise them, not for all the world defines as successful, but who they really are.
58:35
SPEAKER_05: And boy, show me a kid who knows that I'll show you a confident human being.
58:39
SPEAKER_05: And the last one is is that every person needs to know that they are truly unconditionally loved.
58:46
SPEAKER_05: Unconditionally love means I'm gonna love you on your worst day the same as I love you on your best day.
58:51
SPEAKER_05: And when you were born and when you were little, you could do nothing for me.
58:55
SPEAKER_05: You could just be and you could just toddle into the room and I would smile at you simply because you were and you didn't earn it.
59:03
SPEAKER_05: Your presence was enough for me.
59:05
SPEAKER_05: And here's the thing: if as parents we don't know that for ourselves, then that's where we need to do the work.
59:13
SPEAKER_05: Because we can't give what we don't have, but we got to also give it to ourselves because we deserve the same kind of love that we give them.
59:20
SPEAKER_05: We deserve that.
59:22
SPEAKER_05: You know what?
59:22
SPEAKER_05: There's not a one of us who haven't made mistakes, there's not a one of us who haven't blown it.
59:27
SPEAKER_05: We've we are all can be hot messes at any given amount of time.
59:31
SPEAKER_05: But you know what?
59:33
SPEAKER_05: We're enough, and when we live in that enoughness, that's powerful for our children because then they can therefore be enough with us without having to climb a ladder or have this kind of money in their account or drive this kind of car or accomplish this kind of task.
59:49
SPEAKER_05: At the end of the day, that's not what matters.
59:52
SPEAKER_05: Who we are is the best gift we bring to the world.
59:56
SPEAKER_05: And all of us can bring that.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: This has been such a beautiful conversation, and not that I didn't think it would be, because we had a wonderful one the first time.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but is there anything other another message you would like to leave parents who are especially feeling very discouraged or worn down?
1:00:15
SPEAKER_05: You're not responsible for your children's successes or their failures.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_05: I want to release you from that.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_05: You're not responsible for that.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_05: They're adults, they get to make choices, let them celebrate their successes, and you can support them when the mistakes come, but it's not on you and it's not about you.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_05: So don't own it.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_05: Don't take that on and don't rescue them from the life experiences that they need to experience in order to gain the wisdom that they will need moving forward in their lives.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_05: These hard moments are gifts because they can teach us some really important things that can help the future.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_05: We need to release each other from having to rescue our children.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_05: It doesn't help them and it doesn't help us.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: I do want to go back to something that you said before we end this.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: At what point do they step in and say, This is this life that you're choosing?
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: I have let you make this choice for years.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_00: You've been living in the home, maybe since COVID, you know, and I and I have given you that grace to figure out on your own what you want to do.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: You've come back home, but now all they're doing is nothing.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: And these parents who I'm, you know, working with, they are they are themselves in a lot of pain because they feel so helpless and hopeless, which is exactly what their adult children are feeling in their rooms.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_00: But we need to help them find a way out of this for the adult child that's really, really stuck, and the parent that doesn't know what to do.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: What words of wisdom can you share with them?
1:01:58
SPEAKER_05: So I want to I want to speak to the parent who has kids living at home because that's what we're gonna focus on right now.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_05: And that is it's not okay for you to live in your home and not have and have people living in your home where you're not living as a family unit, where everybody is a participant in life.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_05: You're not a hotel, you are not the cleaning service, you're not the cook and the chef, you're not the bank, you're family, and the time is to have the conversation that says, Look, I gave space for you to have this opportunity to figure these things out, and I can sense that you're stuck.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_05: So, as a family, when we get stuck, we just don't let people stay stuck when they live in our home.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_05: We help people get unstuck.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_05: And there's two choices.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_05: You either can participate in getting unstuck, which we will help you do, or you can choose to go live stuck some other place.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_05: Okay, because I love you too much to watch you waste away any further.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_05: Not okay.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_05: It's too painful for me to watch you waste away.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_05: I know what's inside this person that's standing in front of me.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_05: I know what an incredible person you are, and I have watched you wither away and it's not okay.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna participate in that anymore.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_05: I love you too much to let that happen.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_05: But you have to decide are you gonna fight for you and we'll help fight for you too?
1:03:39
SPEAKER_05: Or if you're not gonna quote fight for you, then you can't die here in our home and wither away anymore.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for for every parent listening for the permission to say that to their adult child.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_00: That's what they need, not the kicking out.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: I hope they're not that's not the takeaway because the child's not going anywhere.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_00: What they need is for you to just say, it's enough.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_00: It's enough.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_05: And we'll figure it out together.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_05: If you if you're willing to get unstuck, we will we will do everything we can to help figure out what does that look like and what does that mean.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_05: And I know this this conversation probably raises your anxiety.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_05: What we're trying to do is to get you to embrace the best of everything we know you to be.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_05: That's what we want for you.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_05: Because you're not living.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_05: This is existing, this is this is surviving, this is not living or thriving, and you can't do it under our roof anymore.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_05: We love you too much to let you do it under our roof anymore.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I wish I could give you a hug.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: I really do.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna come and see you one of these days, but we have to make that happen.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_05: And thank you so much for the opportunity to to be a part of your world and your journey.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_05: And I'm honored and humbled by that opportunity.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_05: So thank you.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_05: We're trusting me with your people.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_00: And we have to do this again.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_05: I'm right there with you.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it was beautiful, beautiful.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Catherine.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
1:05:25
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1:05:31
SPEAKER_00: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_00: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_00: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_00: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_00: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: Talk to you soon.