Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 982: Foundations - The Truth About the Big Bucks Behind All of Those Big Dead Bucks You See

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Ep. 982: Foundations - The Truth About the Big Bucks Behind All of Those Big Dead Bucks You See · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
0:05
Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
0:09
Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
0:14
Speaker 1: First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host
0:19
Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
0:20
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundation's podcast,
0:22
Speaker 2: which has brought to you by First Late. I'm your host,
0:24
Speaker 2: Tony Peterson. In today's episode is all about the money
0:27
Speaker 2: involved in whitetail hunting and why that matters to all
0:29
Speaker 2: of us. Look, there's a secret in the hunting industry
0:36
Speaker 2: that no one's going to tell you about, because honestly,
0:38
Speaker 2: we need you to keep buying stuff, and we need
0:40
Speaker 2: you to keep thinking that all of us are super
0:41
Speaker 2: rad hunters who can do what no one else can, which,
0:44
Speaker 2: if you believe that, will make you more likely to
0:47
Speaker 2: buy stuff from us. The big money thing in whitetails
0:49
Speaker 2: is kind of insane, and it's only getting worse. It's
0:52
Speaker 2: also kind of bullshit, and I think we need to
0:54
Speaker 2: talk about it, which is what I'm gonna do right now.
1:03
Speaker 2: A long, long, long time ago, I happened to catch
1:06
Speaker 2: an episode of Ted Nugent's show. I know some people
1:09
Speaker 2: love Uncle Ted, some people hate him. I don't really
1:12
Speaker 2: want to get into that. I did help interview him
1:14
Speaker 2: early in my career and it was an eye opener,
1:16
Speaker 2: and not in a way that made me want to
1:18
Speaker 2: interview him again. I'll leave it there now. On this show,
1:22
Speaker 2: Ted was hunting in northern Wisconsin, which was of particular
1:25
Speaker 2: interest to me for obvious reasons. Now, when he killed
1:28
Speaker 2: a giant, and I do mean a giant velvet antler buck,
1:32
Speaker 2: I thought, what the hell is going on here? The
1:35
Speaker 2: Wisconsin opener is mid September, which you know, usually means
1:39
Speaker 2: you rarely see any buck in velvet let alone like
1:41
Speaker 2: a two hundred inch type of deer. So I looked
1:44
Speaker 2: up the outfitter and I found out that it was
1:46
Speaker 2: a high fence operation, which meant that he didn't need
1:48
Speaker 2: to hunt that deer within the confines of the state regulations,
1:52
Speaker 2: you know, since it's livestock and not wildlife. I then
1:54
Speaker 2: looked up the price to shoot a buck of that caliber,
1:57
Speaker 2: and it was around twenty thousand dollars at that operation.
2:00
Speaker 2: I remember thinking a couple things like, if you have
2:03
Speaker 2: twenty k to drop out a deer, you could certainly
2:05
Speaker 2: find an easy hunt with lower fences. Then I remember
2:09
Speaker 2: thinking it's probably pretty likely he didn't need to pay
2:11
Speaker 2: the full twenty thousand dollars for that buck, given the
2:14
Speaker 2: exposure the outfitter would get from the show. I've had
2:18
Speaker 2: quite a few experiences as a casual consumer of outdoor
2:21
Speaker 2: content and quite a few more as an insider that
2:24
Speaker 2: have exposed me to the money that is involved in
2:26
Speaker 2: deer hunting, and honestly, while it's a huge part of
2:29
Speaker 2: the game, it's also something that is very rarely discussed.
2:33
Speaker 2: After all, pretty much every person who is a hunting
2:35
Speaker 2: influencer wants you to believe that they are relatable. Every
2:39
Speaker 2: brand that makes bows and broadheads and guns and clothing
2:42
Speaker 2: and everything related to hunting also wants to be attached
2:46
Speaker 2: to that relatable sentiment. Not every brand, I guess, since
2:49
Speaker 2: there are some premium you know, luxury guns and other
2:52
Speaker 2: items that are marketed exclusively to this small percentage of
2:55
Speaker 2: outdoor folks you know who can afford such things, and
2:58
Speaker 2: you know probably sheep hunt on a regular But mostly
3:02
Speaker 2: everyone wants to be as relatable as possible because that
3:05
Speaker 2: builds brand loyalty and moves the revenue needle. But the
3:08
Speaker 2: truth is that big money is such an advantage I
3:11
Speaker 2: really don't even know how to overstate it. So let
3:14
Speaker 2: me start at the bottom of this one and talk
3:16
Speaker 2: about yours. Truly. One of the huge reasons I started
3:19
Speaker 2: hunting public land and trying to kill deer where anyone
3:21
Speaker 2: else could is because I was broke as a joke
3:23
Speaker 2: at the time and just as fed up with the
3:25
Speaker 2: hunting industry as a lot of people are today. I'd
3:29
Speaker 2: spent a couple of years editing articles for people who
3:31
Speaker 2: mostly had really really good deer hunting in places like Iowa,
3:36
Speaker 2: but who were writing articles for people who definitely didn't
3:39
Speaker 2: have access to that kind of ground. It left a
3:42
Speaker 2: bad taste in my mouth because candy land hunts aren't
3:45
Speaker 2: what most hunters have access to. So I set out
3:49
Speaker 2: on the public land thing and tried to be relatable,
3:51
Speaker 2: and you know what, it worked. But I had so
3:55
Speaker 2: many advantages for starters. I wasn't paying for most of
3:59
Speaker 2: my gear. I was paying for my tags and travel
4:02
Speaker 2: at the time, but that was all right off, and
4:04
Speaker 2: killing deer, at least in a roundabout way, was my job,
4:10
Speaker 2: so it wasn't like I had to worry about leaving
4:12
Speaker 2: the woods to go work somewhere else to make the
4:14
Speaker 2: money that allowed me to get back to the woods.
4:17
Speaker 2: I'll never forget posting photos of two public land bucks
4:19
Speaker 2: I killed in the same weekend, one in North Dakota
4:22
Speaker 2: and one in Wisconsin, if I'm remembering things correctly, And
4:25
Speaker 2: someone posted that they can't believe anyone can kill bucks
4:29
Speaker 2: like that on public land. That made me feel pretty good.
4:32
Speaker 2: But that person undoubtedly had fewer advantages than I did.
4:37
Speaker 2: Even a bottom of the barrel kind of fella like
4:40
Speaker 2: me has so many advantages. It's really not the same thing.
4:44
Speaker 2: And whether you believe this or not, it's one of
4:46
Speaker 2: the primary reasons I keep trying to hunt hard places.
4:49
Speaker 2: For the most part, I think that that is at
4:51
Speaker 2: least partially our duty, even if it means shooting smaller
4:54
Speaker 2: deer and eating more tags. But you might have noticed
4:57
Speaker 2: that not everyone who hunts public land as a forward
5:00
Speaker 2: facing individual is settling for two year old eight pointers.
5:03
Speaker 2: Every year. You might see some of these folks killing
5:06
Speaker 2: absolute giants over and over. You think that happens without
5:09
Speaker 2: a lot of money, It doesn't, and it doesn't happen
5:13
Speaker 2: usually without lots and lots of money. Sure, someone can
5:18
Speaker 2: get really good at home state hunts where they can
5:20
Speaker 2: put in tons of time or maybe stringed together to
5:23
Speaker 2: a few good bucks in multiple states, but over a
5:26
Speaker 2: long enough timeline it usually just levels out to good years,
5:29
Speaker 2: bad years, and a base level consistency that's higher than
5:33
Speaker 2: your average hunter. Now that exists, and there are some
5:36
Speaker 2: very very good hunters out there who have made a
5:38
Speaker 2: name for themselves by not having a giant bank account
5:41
Speaker 2: but working really hard at hunting and being students of
5:44
Speaker 2: the game. But there are a lot of folks who
5:47
Speaker 2: have access to money most of us couldn't even dream about,
5:51
Speaker 2: and they can buy information, they can pay for exclusive access,
5:55
Speaker 2: and generally enlist all of the help that deep pockets
5:58
Speaker 2: can buy. Recently filmed the show with a cameraman who
6:01
Speaker 2: has worked all over the industry and who knows a
6:03
Speaker 2: hell of a lot of cameramen, and he dropped a
6:06
Speaker 2: few stories of bucks being saved for big name folks
6:08
Speaker 2: who paid unbelievable money for the opportunity, you know, money
6:12
Speaker 2: like fifteen to twenty thousand dollars to reserve the opportunity
6:15
Speaker 2: to hunt specific bucks that are known and advertised by outfitters.
6:20
Speaker 2: You ever notice how you never hear about what someone
6:23
Speaker 2: pays to go hunt and shoot giant deer at outfitters.
6:27
Speaker 2: It's because it would make most folks just not care
6:29
Speaker 2: about the deer. I think we all know that, but
6:32
Speaker 2: we don't really know the like nitty gritty details of that.
6:35
Speaker 2: There has been a long history of buying opportunities that
6:38
Speaker 2: giant deer on private land. There is a more recent
6:42
Speaker 2: reality of buying information leading to big public land deer
6:46
Speaker 2: as well as Western critters. Is it illegal, Nope, But
6:50
Speaker 2: to that cloud the water is a bit on what
6:51
Speaker 2: we are all doing with ourselves. I think so. It's
6:55
Speaker 2: not just that, though, because the big money has to
6:57
Speaker 2: get to the folks who are paying that big money
6:59
Speaker 2: for the A buddy of mine used to handle accounts
7:02
Speaker 2: for several big outdoor brands. He was responsible for tying
7:06
Speaker 2: up influencers with marketing budgets. One fellow they were working
7:09
Speaker 2: with turned down a contract they offered up that was
7:12
Speaker 2: worth two hundred grand for one brand. There was a
7:16
Speaker 2: breakdown in there of you know, actual straight cash, a
7:20
Speaker 2: hunt budget, and a gear budget, but the whole compensation
7:24
Speaker 2: package was two hundred thousand dollars. Does that sound pretty relatable?
7:29
Speaker 2: It's not, and that money buys a lot of big,
7:32
Speaker 2: dead critters, which keeps the whole snowball rolling along. Now,
7:37
Speaker 2: when you think about paying twenty five or thirty grand
7:39
Speaker 2: for an elk on a highly exclusive ranch, you probably
7:43
Speaker 2: think that it's just pure bananas and really open to
7:45
Speaker 2: rich oil tycoons or folks who bought five thousand shares
7:48
Speaker 2: of Amazon at its IPO and have held on pretty
7:51
Speaker 2: tightly since. But it's also the people who sell you
7:54
Speaker 2: hunting gear with an aweschus attitude and a curated air
7:57
Speaker 2: of being just like everyone else, but just a little
8:00
Speaker 2: harder working if you get my drift. Now, Look, I
8:03
Speaker 2: don't want to sound like I'm just dunking out a
8:06
Speaker 2: bunch of folks, because I don't mean it that way.
8:08
Speaker 2: Hunting is an industry, and you don't get badass bows
8:12
Speaker 2: and trail cameras and all the stuff we use without
8:14
Speaker 2: the typical trappings of capitalism in its current form. It's
8:18
Speaker 2: just the nature of the game, and honestly, I'm okay
8:20
Speaker 2: with it. I think people should just be able to
8:22
Speaker 2: make a lot of money and start businesses and brands
8:25
Speaker 2: and go for broke. I just think that it sucks
8:27
Speaker 2: a little bit that an image is being sold that you, too,
8:31
Speaker 2: dear listener, can easily have what others have. But just
8:34
Speaker 2: by buying a few things and hunting a certain way,
8:38
Speaker 2: or maybe just working on developing some real grit, you
8:52
Speaker 2: should do all that. It actually will help. But so
8:55
Speaker 2: would an extra two hundred thousand dollars a year. In fact,
8:58
Speaker 2: I bet that would be the busiest way to shoot
9:00
Speaker 2: a bunch of big bucks or bulls. Uh, because it
9:03
Speaker 2: is Well, maybe you're thinking, okay, but what about the
9:06
Speaker 2: folks who just worked hard and developed a brand and
9:08
Speaker 2: a following, and now they own some good land and
9:11
Speaker 2: grow huge bucks. What's so bad about that? Nothing? There's
9:15
Speaker 2: absolutely nothing bad about it, I don't think. In fact,
9:18
Speaker 2: I admire people way more who can build and run
9:20
Speaker 2: a business for a long time over people who can
9:23
Speaker 2: kill big bucks. I really do. But you also need
9:26
Speaker 2: to understand that the business part produces those big bucks.
9:31
Speaker 2: Several years ago, I interviewed the male half of a
9:33
Speaker 2: celebrity deer hunting couple, although not the one that probably
9:36
Speaker 2: comes immediately to your mind right now, and he casually
9:40
Speaker 2: mentioned that he planted one hundred acres of food blots
9:44
Speaker 2: that year, one hundred acres of food blots just for deer.
9:50
Speaker 2: Do you have any idea how much land you need
9:52
Speaker 2: to have access to in order to carve out one
9:56
Speaker 2: hundred acres? For a frame of reference, if you stood
9:59
Speaker 2: where you are now and could somehow walk in a
10:02
Speaker 2: perfectly straight line to the east, you would walk two
10:06
Speaker 2: thousand and eighty seven feet before you turn north, where
10:09
Speaker 2: you would walk two thousand and eighty seven feet, and
10:12
Speaker 2: then west the same distance, and finally south. Inside of
10:15
Speaker 2: that is one hundred acres. Now, that power couple, they
10:19
Speaker 2: killed big bucks, and a lot of them. But what
10:22
Speaker 2: do you think the dollar value behind that land and
10:25
Speaker 2: the input costs of those crops and other resourcess. At
10:30
Speaker 2: one point in my career I did a whole bunch
10:33
Speaker 2: of speaking events at sports shows and deer classics. I
10:36
Speaker 2: got paid five hundred dollars a day, which back then
10:39
Speaker 2: meant an awful lot to me, which is why I
10:41
Speaker 2: didn't mind going up on stage after water skiing squirrels
10:44
Speaker 2: and shit like that. One year I spoke at a
10:47
Speaker 2: deer classic where a couple of really well known white
10:49
Speaker 2: tail hunters were the keynote speakers. They got paid twenty
10:52
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars for the weekend, but also got a
10:55
Speaker 2: free booth from which they sold merchandise, and boy, they
10:59
Speaker 2: were moving some shirts and hats. Imagine making something like
11:03
Speaker 2: I don't know, forty or fifty grand for a weekend.
11:06
Speaker 2: You know what that buys you a shitload of land,
11:09
Speaker 2: which is the key ingredient to growing giant deer and
11:11
Speaker 2: shooting them. When you're in the industry, you hear about
11:14
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars Western leases, giant sponsorship deals, and
11:19
Speaker 2: just big money stuff all the time, But none of
11:22
Speaker 2: that really trickles down to the audience because it would
11:24
Speaker 2: absolutely take the shine off the apple. And believe me,
11:28
Speaker 2: I know that I'm a part of this machine and
11:30
Speaker 2: it has always bothered me. I get why so many
11:34
Speaker 2: people are so sick of the hunting industry and why
11:36
Speaker 2: so many folks are just jaded. I think in general,
11:40
Speaker 2: we are at a stage of humanity where we are
11:42
Speaker 2: just inundated with propaganda and just total bullshit all the time.
11:46
Speaker 2: It comes at us from every direction, and most of
11:48
Speaker 2: us create a little bit of it ourselves. If we
11:50
Speaker 2: use social media at all, we all know that, and
11:53
Speaker 2: it's like we're just stuck in the undertow and can't
11:56
Speaker 2: see any reason to try to swim out of it.
11:58
Speaker 2: That sucks. But what I want to say about this,
12:00
Speaker 2: you know, the message I really want to get out
12:02
Speaker 2: on this anyway, is this just got to find your
12:05
Speaker 2: own way, go be happy out there. However, you have
12:08
Speaker 2: to forget what other people kill and what they do,
12:11
Speaker 2: because you know what that big money is in deer
12:13
Speaker 2: that aren't a part of the industry as well. Most
12:16
Speaker 2: of the folks you see who kill big bucks with
12:19
Speaker 2: any consistency have money. Not all of them, mind you,
12:23
Speaker 2: but a hell of a lot of the grip and
12:24
Speaker 2: grins you see are propped up on real money, leases,
12:28
Speaker 2: buying farms, paying for outfitted hunts. It's all predicated on
12:32
Speaker 2: the big spend. And good for those folks. For real,
12:36
Speaker 2: If you have money and that's what you want to
12:37
Speaker 2: spend it on, I don't begrudge anyone that. But if
12:40
Speaker 2: you don't, or spending half a year's college tuition to
12:43
Speaker 2: shoot a deer someone else scouted for you seems like
12:45
Speaker 2: the move of an insane person. There's an easier way,
12:49
Speaker 2: just go hunting. Forget about everyone else. The truth is
12:52
Speaker 2: that whitetail hunting is full of bs, and we all
12:55
Speaker 2: do it. We all want everyone to know we are,
12:58
Speaker 2: you know, hunting the hardest deer. And the only reason
13:01
Speaker 2: we killed that one hundred and twenty and eight pointer
13:03
Speaker 2: when we should kill one sixties is because the family
13:06
Speaker 2: needed us more and it just felt right in a moment.
13:08
Speaker 2: And we really don't care about trophies anymore. We really
13:11
Speaker 2: want to know, you know, we could kill a giant,
13:13
Speaker 2: we just don't or whatever, and on and on. But
13:17
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, my friends. Deer hunting is something that
13:19
Speaker 2: should be between us and the deer, you know, mostly
13:23
Speaker 2: you know, maybe us the deer, our families, and maybe
13:25
Speaker 2: some close friends. I kind of look at this stuff,
13:28
Speaker 2: you know, like it has just gotten harder and harder
13:31
Speaker 2: to keep parts of it all secret, and that the
13:33
Speaker 2: money has gotten bigger and bigger because there's more competition
13:36
Speaker 2: for eyeballs and earballs, and every brand out there is
13:39
Speaker 2: looking to attach itself to the folks who can you know,
13:42
Speaker 2: get their products in front of all those eyes or
13:44
Speaker 2: Whisper Sweet, nothing's into all those ears. There is a
13:48
Speaker 2: machine built around making money off of hunting just like
13:51
Speaker 2: there is around literally every facet of our lives. It
13:55
Speaker 2: influences behavior, it promises success, and it directly funds the
13:59
Speaker 2: death of an awful lot of giant bucks. It's just
14:01
Speaker 2: the way it kind of goes. So if you're disgusted
14:05
Speaker 2: by it, or indifferent or all of it, that's great.
14:09
Speaker 2: Follow your own compass, find your own way, and do
14:12
Speaker 2: what you have to in order to enjoy your time
14:14
Speaker 2: in the woods. Because even though that money issue can
14:16
Speaker 2: be an ugly part that sells a lot of folks
14:18
Speaker 2: who want to believe it's also the reason we can
14:21
Speaker 2: sit comfortably in a box lind with our kids on
14:23
Speaker 2: a Sunday afternoon, or slip into the public land on
14:26
Speaker 2: a Tuesday morning and hang us set super quietly, and
14:29
Speaker 2: just about any tree we choose. Everything is nuanced and muddy.
14:34
Speaker 2: And the only thing I really want to give you
14:35
Speaker 2: out of this is that if you're bummed about your hunting,
14:38
Speaker 2: or in that phase where you just can't level up
14:40
Speaker 2: to a good one when it seems like everyone else has,
14:43
Speaker 2: or you're just not enjoying it for whatever reason, it's
14:46
Speaker 2: not hopeless. You're playing by a different set of rules.
14:50
Speaker 2: All of which make the whole thing a hell of
14:52
Speaker 2: a lot more difficult. I recently had a conversation with
14:56
Speaker 2: someone who is trying to kill a doe on public
14:58
Speaker 2: land in Kansas, and it's not owing very well. But
15:01
Speaker 2: this person has been on or around bucks in every
15:05
Speaker 2: hang and bang sit, and I was like, you can't
15:08
Speaker 2: do much better than walking in, reading signs, setting up,
15:11
Speaker 2: and having deer around you. You know, the goal was
15:14
Speaker 2: to put a dough in the freezer, but that's not
15:16
Speaker 2: the only thing that matters. I told this person, like,
15:18
Speaker 2: you're doing a good job with your hunting circumstances and
15:21
Speaker 2: you're stacking up wins. You know that you're not even
15:24
Speaker 2: considering all of us, or at least most of us,
15:28
Speaker 2: are also probably in a position with hunting that someone
15:31
Speaker 2: else would kill two have think about that when you
15:34
Speaker 2: head out. You know, sure, you might not get paid
15:37
Speaker 2: six times the average salary in the US just to
15:39
Speaker 2: pedal a certain brand of bo but if you have
15:42
Speaker 2: enough gear and enough time to go hunting, and you
15:44
Speaker 2: can fill up the truck without worrying about putting food
15:46
Speaker 2: on the table, it could be a hell of a
15:48
Speaker 2: lot worse. You know what, I honestly don't even really
15:51
Speaker 2: know how to wrap this one up, but I've been
15:52
Speaker 2: thinking about it all fall, after hearing some stories about
15:56
Speaker 2: the industry and talking to people who are truly befuddled
15:59
Speaker 2: by white They can't kill a big buck. Sometimes you
16:02
Speaker 2: just want to get something off your chest, you know.
16:04
Speaker 2: I'll throw out a little rant and then go back
16:06
Speaker 2: to the woods and try to figure out where the
16:07
Speaker 2: deer have gone to, which is what I'm going to
16:10
Speaker 2: do this week. And I feel like you should too now,
16:12
Speaker 2: even if you aren't guaranteed to have a booner walk out,
16:15
Speaker 2: because you're slugging it out on public land with a
16:17
Speaker 2: bunch of other hunters who might never get to set
16:19
Speaker 2: foot on candyland even once, let alone own hundreds or
16:22
Speaker 2: thousands of acres of it. So go have fun, remember
16:25
Speaker 2: that everything is total bullshit, and try to enjoy your
16:28
Speaker 2: own deer hunting ride, because if you don't, no matter
16:31
Speaker 2: what your circumstances are, there's some hunter out there who
16:34
Speaker 2: would just kill to have your opportunities. That's it for
16:39
Speaker 2: this week. I'm Tony Peterson. This has been the Wired
16:41
Speaker 2: to Hunt Foundation's podcast, which is brought to you by
16:43
Speaker 2: First Light. As always, I want to thank you so
16:46
Speaker 2: much for listening for all your support. You might have
16:48
Speaker 2: noticed that the days are really short and the nights
16:50
Speaker 2: are really long right now. Maybe you need some new entertainment,
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Speaker 2: Maybe you want to learn something new about hunting. The
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Speaker 2: com and thanks once again for your support