Latest / Critical Error / The Toxic Positivity Problem

Transcript

The Toxic Positivity Problem · Critical Error

• 0:00
  Jake, I didn't like Metroid Prime 4 very
• 0:02
  much, and I think it's a bad video game.
• 0:03
  >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let people enjoy
• 0:05
  things, Peter. How am I supposed to
• 0:06
  enjoy Metroid Prime 4 if you're creating
• 0:08
  an environment for me in which it is
• 0:09
  very
• 0:10
  >> A critical error is an error which the
• 0:12
  OS cannot reasonably ignore. Sh. Jake
• 0:15
  Steinberg is a streamer and writer, and
• 0:17
  certified yapper. Complimentary. Peter
• 0:19
  Hunt spit tech is a YouTuber,
• 0:23
  journalist, and certified yapper.
• 0:25
  Derogatory. These are the things they
• 0:27
  cannot reasonably ignore. What exactly
• 0:29
  are people trying to do when they deploy
• 0:32
  the phrase let people enjoy things? And
• 0:36
  I think like that's good advice. That's
• 0:39
  like a that's like a good kind of mantra
• 0:41
  to have out into the open. I don't think
• 0:42
  any of us should be stopping anyone else
• 0:45
  from enjoying stuff. I don't want to run
• 0:48
  up to a child and smack their mocha chip
• 0:51
  ice cream out of their hands. But at the
• 0:53
  same time, this is a phrase that I think
• 0:55
  is very popular in the media and the
• 0:57
  critic space. And I find it to be almost
• 1:00
  an abdication of critical
• 1:01
  responsibility, almost an admittance
• 1:04
  that the critic's job is either
• 1:06
  undefined or uncared for. Because why in
• 1:10
  criticism are we in conversation with
• 1:12
  letting people enjoy things at all?
• 1:15
  >> You know, it's funny. I I I find it to
• 1:16
  be a very similar phrase to um the idea
• 1:20
  of like, well, it's just not for me. a
• 1:22
  phrase we've done a video on, an episode
• 1:23
  on um because of what you said. It
• 1:26
  abdicates the responsibility of the
• 1:28
  critic,
• 1:30
  but usually it's in my opinion not being
• 1:34
  said by a critic. It is being said to a
• 1:38
  critic, which is I think sort of a key
• 1:39
  difference because um in my experience
• 1:42
  when people say, "Well, why don't you
• 1:43
  just let people enjoy things, Peter?"
• 1:45
  It's because I have brought up a
• 1:47
  critical conversation surrounding a
• 1:48
  piece of media, specifically usually a
• 1:50
  video game, right? because I'm like,
• 1:51
  "Hey, I didn't really like this part of
• 1:53
  this thing and I want to talk about
• 1:54
  that." And for me, usually the idea of
• 1:56
  like enjoyment has very little to do
• 1:59
  with it. You know what I'm saying? Cuz
• 2:00
  cuz like I could talk about how uh like
• 2:03
  Ghost of Yote, for example, a game I
• 2:05
  recent game that I really didn't like.
• 2:06
  Um and I have very specific reasons why
• 2:08
  I didn't like it. And the reasons why I
• 2:12
  don't like it and the reasons why I
• 2:13
  don't think it work like eventually do
• 2:15
  come to the end point of enjoyment,
• 2:17
  right? The fact that these things didn't
• 2:19
  work eventually comes to to a head when
• 2:22
  I when I'm playing it and I'm not
• 2:23
  enjoying it. But my criticism of it has
• 2:27
  nothing to do with me enjoying it or
• 2:29
  not. It has to do with like, okay, this
• 2:30
  structurally doesn't work. This doesn't
• 2:32
  work here. It doesn't come together in a
• 2:34
  way that I I think it should, in a way
• 2:36
  that me makes something comp uh
• 2:37
  compelling or impactful or anything like
• 2:39
  that.
• 2:40
  >> Yeah. Yeah, it's this funny thing that I
• 2:42
  think is uh part and parcel with kind of
• 2:45
  having an undeveloped
• 2:48
  or a maybe just kind of like juvenile
• 2:52
  critical space because I think if you
• 2:54
  were to ask somebody even like an active
• 2:57
  critic in games media, what is the point
• 3:00
  of criticism? I think that that would be
• 3:03
  something that everyone would give
• 3:05
  almost everyone pause and it would be
• 3:07
  this question of like okay a video game
• 3:10
  review I think very obviously is trying
• 3:13
  to tell somebody whether or not they
• 3:16
  should buy a video game right
• 3:18
  >> I think that's some I think that would
• 3:20
  be a very common refrain that you would
• 3:22
  find if you ask a lot of people this
• 3:23
  >> I'm I'm I'm a trustworthy perspective
• 3:26
  I'm somebody whose opinions you can
• 3:27
  trust and listen to about whether or not
• 3:29
  you think that this game would be good
• 3:31
  about getting an idea of the game and
• 3:32
  then deciding whether or not to buy it.
• 3:34
  And I think people who listen to this
• 3:35
  podcast know that while that is a
• 3:39
  service that exists on the internet,
• 3:41
  does that mean that if I go to
• 3:44
  amazon.com and look up a product, every
• 3:46
  single one of the people's reviews that
• 3:49
  have been left rating that product is a
• 3:50
  work of criticism? Obviously, no. So, we
• 3:53
  know that there is something different
• 3:55
  happening there between just a review
• 3:57
  and criticism. Criticism is an art form.
• 3:59
  If we think about what the point of it
• 4:01
  is, I would say that it's a few things.
• 4:04
  It exists to explain why something
• 4:06
  works, who it serves, and what it
• 4:08
  values. I don't think the point of
• 4:11
  criticism or something even important to
• 4:13
  it is to
• 4:16
  manage whether or not somebody had a
• 4:18
  nice time.
• 4:20
  >> And because I I think like the idea of
• 4:22
  enjoyment is so is such a specific
• 4:24
  reaction to art too, right? Like uh I
• 4:27
  think about the movie The Shining U or
• 4:29
  let's use the video game um
• 4:33
  like PT the the very famous very
• 4:36
  horrifying like playable teaser for that
• 4:38
  Silent Host game that never came out
• 4:39
  very very iconic video game.
• 4:42
  Is the point of playing something like
• 4:44
  that to enjoy it? Not really. Because
• 4:47
  the emotions that you're feeling are
• 4:48
  like profoundly negative, right? It's
• 4:50
  fear, it's terror, it's it's disgust,
• 4:52
  whatever. So the idea of saying like
• 4:54
  we'll let people enjoy that I think is
• 4:56
  is kind of interesting because it's kind
• 4:58
  of in in uh conflict with some of the
• 5:01
  emotions that you're trying to feel when
• 5:03
  you're playing something like that, you
• 5:04
  know, or like the the idea that art is
• 5:06
  only only exists to be enjoyed and not
• 5:09
  to be confrontational or not to make you
• 5:11
  feel emotions other than just like
• 5:13
  >> uh general pleasantness is is right. I
• 5:17
  think uh kind of an interesting but
• 5:20
  reoccurring idea that comes up with this
• 5:22
  idea of like let people enjoy things.
• 5:24
  >> Yeah. You see so often people kind of
• 5:25
  have this criticism charged at video
• 5:27
  games where they're like yeah it does
• 5:29
  all this stuff but it's not fun and a
• 5:30
  game has to be fun. And it's kind of
• 5:32
  funny if you think about that in terms
• 5:33
  of like a book or a movie if it's like
• 5:34
  ah but it's not fun.
• 5:36
  >> It's not you know it's like it's a great
• 5:37
  movie but it's not fun. And that being
• 5:39
  like this this great curse against it. I
• 5:40
  think it's fair to say that most people
• 5:42
  experience criticism uh before they've
• 5:44
  played the video game. That's when you
• 5:46
  find a video game review. That's when
• 5:47
  you're reading it. And the thing is is
• 5:49
  that like I think that that is
• 5:52
  introducing a lot of problems in this
• 5:54
  equation of let people enjoy things
• 5:56
  because you are reaching people and then
• 5:59
  in theory kind of like trying to affect
• 6:02
  their idea of a video game as they are
• 6:05
  going into enjoying it. Whereas like
• 6:08
  criticism actually should sharpen your
• 6:11
  perspective. It's it's not about
• 6:13
  soothing it. Yes, this this is this
• 6:16
  whole idea of like uh I like to uh uh
• 6:20
  play a game and then like read reviews
• 6:22
  or like like watch videos or whatever
• 6:24
  about it because I have the full context
• 6:27
  for what the game is and now I've
• 6:28
  experienced it myself and as what you're
• 6:30
  saying like criticism should sharpen
• 6:31
  that experience and should should work
• 6:33
  as a way for me to help understand it.
• 6:36
  And this is something we've talked about
• 6:37
  a lot and maybe this is worthy of doing
• 6:39
  its own episode uh at some point down
• 6:41
  the line, but the idea of like most
• 6:43
  reviews are like, well, I'm not will I
• 6:44
  don't want to spoil anything. I don't
• 6:46
  want to spoil anything, but and like for
• 6:50
  me at that point, it's like, okay, the
• 6:52
  criticism of this thing has just ended
• 6:53
  for the most part. If if we're not
• 6:55
  willing to actually talk about what the
• 6:56
  the body of the work is for a piece of
• 6:59
  art, then it's like, well, I just I I
• 7:01
  think we're I'm kind of out in terms of
• 7:02
  what this is trying to say here. And
• 7:04
  that's such a prioritization of manners
• 7:07
  and enjoyment. I would say when you say
• 7:09
  I don't I don't want to spoil anything.
• 7:10
  You are thinking about the not the not
• 7:13
  the perception or appreciation of
• 7:15
  something. You're you are thinking about
• 7:17
  the user's enjoyment of the thing and
• 7:19
  trying to like protect that experience.
• 7:21
  And um it's funny I think that it is
• 7:24
  often times replacing analysis with this
• 7:27
  kind of like consumerfocused manners
• 7:30
  because the phrase let people enjoy
• 7:32
  things is like actually criticism is you
• 7:36
  being rude to the sanctity of somebody's
• 7:41
  uh ability to enjoy something or like
• 7:43
  the environment in which it will be most
• 7:45
  helpful for them to enjoy something.
• 7:47
  >> Yes. And it's it's this thing too
• 7:48
  because like I think the idea and you
• 7:50
  said this like right at the top of of
• 7:51
  like no we should let people enjoy
• 7:53
  everyone. It's good that people enjoy
• 7:56
  stuff. You shouldn't be smacking what
• 7:57
  did you say is smacking an ice cream
• 7:58
  coming out of the hand of a child like
• 7:59
  Yeah.
• 8:00
  >> Milk a chip.
• 8:01
  >> Yeah. And and to be honest with you,
• 8:02
  good choice. uh uh like the idea of
• 8:06
  letting people enjoy things in real life
• 8:09
  in my opinion is very different than the
• 8:11
  idea of saying like we'll let people
• 8:12
  enjoy things in a critical space because
• 8:14
  there's a certain level of like no no
• 8:17
  you do need to be like a normal person
• 8:19
  out there in the world and so like if
• 8:22
  everyone is talking about again in in
• 8:24
  conversation not a critical space
• 8:27
  whatever we're all talking about ghost
• 8:28
  of yote I am not going
• 8:32
  hold on a moment everyone
• 8:34
  how terrible this game is. Let me let me
• 8:35
  introduce you to my You have 23 minutes.
• 8:38
  Like I made a video about it. You know
• 8:39
  what I mean? Like that's that's being
• 8:41
  weird. But like in the critical space,
• 8:43
  in an online space where we we're
• 8:45
  sitting down and having criticisms about
• 8:47
  games and discussing their nuances and
• 8:49
  whatever, the idea that someone is is
• 8:53
  attacking
• 8:54
  a work of art
• 8:56
  >> simply for criticizing and for for uh
• 9:01
  you know, hopefully trying to meet it
• 9:03
  where it's at and discuss its, you know,
• 9:05
  constituent pieces.
• 9:07
  That is this. It's so different. It's
• 9:09
  just it's completely different than than
• 9:10
  I think talking about it in like a
• 9:12
  social situation.
• 9:13
  >> Well, but it's funny too because every
• 9:15
  single thing that a critic can say about
• 9:18
  a video game, any kind of negative
• 9:19
  criticism that anybody can lodge at a
• 9:21
  video game is completely opt in on the
• 9:24
  part of the reader, listener, viewer,
• 9:26
  whatever. Like protecting like if they
• 9:29
  need to protect if they need to enjoy
• 9:31
  things, that is their job to protect
• 9:34
  that space. They you don't have to opt
• 9:36
  in to clicking on a review. You don't
• 9:38
  like what are you doing?
• 9:39
  >> Right. No, it's it's like you Hey, man.
• 9:42
  You clicked on my video called Metroid
• 9:45
  Prime 4 is the worst video game ever
• 9:46
  made. You like
• 9:48
  >> and I guess if the title is ruining your
• 9:50
  enjoyment, apologies, I suppose. But
• 9:52
  skill issue,
• 9:53
  >> but you're here. Yeah, you're here.
• 9:56
  >> Um I don't know. I I find this this
• 9:58
  phrase to be um just reductive, right?
• 10:01
  And I I don't think there's like much
• 10:02
  work that needs to be done to convince
• 10:04
  people of like, hey, this is a phrase
• 10:06
  that like I don't really think belongs
• 10:08
  in criticism at all. Um I I think it's a
• 10:11
  a phrase that I guess if you want it to
• 10:13
  exist in like a fandom space, then I
• 10:16
  think that's probably fine, but for me
• 10:19
  personally, that's not how I want to
• 10:21
  exist in fandom. the the right way to
• 10:23
  use this phrase. Yeah. I I am on the uh
• 10:28
  subreddit for Xenolade Chronicles and
• 10:31
  all everybody there is a fan of it and
• 10:32
  I'm in the comments fighting with
• 10:34
  everyone. I'm in the comments fighting
• 10:36
  with everybody saying actually you're
• 10:38
  this is a bad game and you're dumb for
• 10:39
  liking it. And it's like that is maybe a
• 10:42
  let people enjoy things kind of
• 10:43
  situation because you are entering their
• 10:45
  space and you're like hey this space
• 10:47
  that is designed that is here for this
• 10:50
  particular job I'm actually going to go
• 10:52
  against that for the sake of some weird
• 10:56
  um mental jollies that I'm getting out
• 10:59
  of out of you know about owning people
• 11:00
  in the marketplace of ideas. I don't
• 11:02
  know. You know what I mean?
• 11:03
  >> Yes. But but I think that's the a the
• 11:06
  idea of like no this is a space set up
• 11:08
  for fandom. That's great and that's
• 11:10
  perfect and I'm happy that that exists
• 11:12
  for people, but I think it kind of
• 11:14
  highlights a a common complaint that we
• 11:17
  have talked about with um a lot of games
• 11:20
  media and this is something we brought
• 11:21
  up in our bonus episode today for our uh
• 11:23
  Patreon community.
• 11:24
  patreon.com/criticalair for the critical
• 11:25
  error nation. People who pay $5 a month
• 11:27
  or more um get to hear those bonus
• 11:29
  episodes. One of the things we talked
• 11:30
  about
• 11:30
  >> Wait, hold on, Peter. I'm I can't
• 11:32
  believe that you just plugged the bonus
• 11:33
  pod because I got to say this one was a
• 11:35
  was a big peak behind the curtain. Was a
• 11:37
  little raw. You did a little rod, didn't
• 11:39
  it?
• 11:40
  >> And now it's like there's some the
• 11:42
  secrets will be out if they subscribe $5
• 11:45
  or more to patreon.com/critical
• 11:47
  error. So I don't
• 11:48
  >> No, that's true. That's true. There's
• 11:49
  there's a whole secret conversation
• 11:51
  going on that you could be privy to.
• 11:53
  >> patreon.com/critical error. But one of
• 11:55
  the things that we talked about uh today
• 11:57
  is sort of this problem where um the
• 12:02
  intersection between
• 12:04
  fandom uh uh culture, fandom uh spaces
• 12:09
  online and journalism criticism, right?
• 12:13
  We talked a lot about the idea of um how
• 12:16
  a lot of these big media sites are sort
• 12:19
  of just like press release. they kind of
• 12:22
  just chew up press releases very lightly
• 12:24
  and then sort of uh uh present them
• 12:27
  almost on pretty much uncritically um to
• 12:30
  to audiences and stuff like that. And so
• 12:32
  because in my opinion there's been such
• 12:35
  an a denigration of the critical voice
• 12:38
  and the critical lens from these
• 12:40
  publications, it means that a lot of
• 12:42
  them double a lot of them that do not
• 12:45
  like are not like forward like
• 12:46
  front-facing uh enthusiast media do
• 12:48
  double as fandom spaces. And then so
• 12:50
  when someone shows up and says, "Here's
• 12:52
  my take on
• 12:54
  the big game that just high guard,
• 12:56
  right? That's something people are
• 12:57
  talking about a lot right now." Well,
• 12:59
  now you're attacking something.
• 13:01
  Attacking something because it was what
• 13:04
  everyone thought was a fandom space.
• 13:06
  >> Yeah. It's funny. Yeah, I had a little
• 13:08
  bit of a different wrinkle in in this, I
• 13:10
  think, because something another thing
• 13:11
  that we we talk about a lot is the is
• 13:14
  kind of like uh not just the collapsing
• 13:16
  of games media and journalists with
• 13:18
  fandom, but also with um like PR as
• 13:21
  well, right? And how Yeah. And uh you
• 13:23
  brought up like the Xbox Wire and I
• 13:26
  would say like we are seeing now
• 13:28
  previews being written by these just
• 13:31
  completely like corporate outlets. The
• 13:34
  PlayStation blog, Xbox Wire and they're
• 13:36
  like I don't know pretending to like do
• 13:38
  video game previews and to be doing the
• 13:41
  same job as everybody else though
• 13:42
  they're like corporate aims are
• 13:44
  obviously very different. But when you
• 13:46
  actually like read those blogs and you
• 13:48
  read those articles, what you will find
• 13:50
  is a written piece that is almost
• 13:54
  entirely the same as what you might find
• 13:57
  in a preview from some press outlet.
• 13:59
  Right. Yeah.
• 14:00
  >> So there is this there is this fear I
• 14:02
  think of the complete collapse between
• 14:06
  games media outlets and PR. And I think
• 14:08
  when I hear um let people enjoy things,
• 14:12
  when it comes from people in games, I
• 14:16
  worry that that is a collapsing there
• 14:19
  because if PR PR is asking constantly,
• 14:23
  will this upset people? That's a core
• 14:24
  question of PR. And I think a core
• 14:27
  question of criticism needs to be what
• 14:29
  is this doing? And these are two
• 14:32
  completely different questions. And I
• 14:34
  think when you have somebody who is
• 14:37
  almost abdicating what is this doing in
• 14:39
  favor of being like just let it's just
• 14:42
  shut up just let people enjoy things
• 14:44
  that starts to throw flags in my in my
• 14:46
  head because I think we almost
• 14:50
  could use a little more attitude and a
• 14:52
  little more bullishness in terms of how
• 14:54
  we feel about video games because Peter,
• 14:55
  it's not that serious. It's not that
• 14:57
  serious. I should be able to go online
• 14:59
  and write my piece about how I think
• 15:01
  Donkey Kong Bonanza is bad. I should be
• 15:03
  able to go on and on about how I think
• 15:05
  that game's lack of structure stops it
• 15:07
  from building and releasing any tension.
• 15:10
  There's no crescendo in that game. And I
• 15:13
  should be able to post that. And I get
• 15:16
  people who are in games media who are
• 15:19
  fighting me now for being too negative,
• 15:21
  who are in the replies literally saying,
• 15:24
  "Let people enjoy this." How could you
• 15:25
  say that the the content isn't
• 15:27
  meaningful, that it's just content?
• 15:30
  Negative. That is such a that is a
• 15:32
  because is it really so terrible for
• 15:33
  somebody in the space to say this is my
• 15:36
  position. This is how I feel about it.
• 15:38
  If that affects you emotionally,
• 15:41
  mentally that's not my problem. Is that
• 15:43
  so bad? Well, I think I think the lack
• 15:46
  of like a diverse set of opinions in
• 15:49
  terms of uh uh critical an analysis and
• 15:53
  the the sort of push back uh on on it
• 15:57
  whenever it does sort of rear its head
• 16:00
  like like real critical analysis that is
• 16:02
  like breaking things down and saying
• 16:03
  like hey I don't know if this works I
• 16:04
  don't know whatever whatever whatever I
• 16:06
  think shows a a fundamental lack of
• 16:08
  maturity in in the the space which is
• 16:11
  frustrating right because to me the idea
• 16:13
  of let people enjoy things is
• 16:18
  uh
• 16:20
  not something to be taken seriously in a
• 16:21
  critical space. I I think I think it is
• 16:23
  a a a display of immaturity in the uh
• 16:28
  when when talking with the critical eye
• 16:30
  and it's something that I just look at
• 16:31
  I'm like well I think we're
• 16:33
  fundamentally talking about different
• 16:34
  things if if that's what you're bringing
• 16:35
  to the table when it's time to criticize
• 16:37
  and time to discuss and time to dissect
• 16:40
  and um
• 16:42
  >> oh I love this take Peter I think
• 16:44
  something you're you're making really
• 16:45
  clear is the the consensus that how much
• 16:49
  power consensus has in this space and
• 16:51
  how I Think consensus is often times a
• 16:56
  a thing that people use to like signal
• 16:58
  something about their position and their
• 17:00
  taste because like let people enjoy
• 17:03
  things is for a lesser. Let people enjoy
• 17:06
  things is I know this is stupid. You
• 17:08
  know this is stupid. Let people enjoy
• 17:11
  the stupid thing. And I don't think we
• 17:13
  should be seeing anything like that. I
• 17:15
  think that you need to understand that
• 17:17
  different people have different
• 17:18
  perspectives and trying to collapse
• 17:20
  everybody into these are the serious
• 17:22
  game thinkers that recognize that this
• 17:24
  thing is bad and then these are the
• 17:26
  unserious game players who just let them
• 17:29
  enjoy things. I think even even having
• 17:31
  that in your mind is like a little
• 17:33
  silly.
• 17:34
  >> Well, there's a there's a great clip of
• 17:35
  um Jeff Gersman going around Blue Sky
• 17:37
  right now. Uh I think from one of his
• 17:39
  recent podcast episodes. I've not kept
• 17:42
  up with him in in in a few years, but um
• 17:44
  he someone said someone said in his chat
• 17:46
  like, "Jay, just let people enjoy
• 17:48
  things." And he's like, "No, let people
• 17:49
  [ __ ] hate things. Let like like
• 17:51
  grow." He like ends his like little like
• 17:52
  rant here by saying like, "Grow up. Grow
• 17:54
  up." You've entered sort of a space
• 17:57
  where you are interested in his opinion
• 17:59
  and then people are he gives it and then
• 18:03
  what happens? People don't want to hear
• 18:05
  it. And so it's like why are you even
• 18:06
  here? Why are you even here? I think a
• 18:07
  lot of this too comes down to um people
• 18:11
  have always been this way but uh it
• 18:13
  feels like it has ramped up to a uh
• 18:16
  uncontrollable degree over the last like
• 18:19
  decade or so. This idea of um media
• 18:22
  being personal identity. And so if
• 18:27
  for a lot of people they hear oh you
• 18:29
  know you didn't like I just keep going
• 18:32
  back to Metroid Prime 4 because it's on
• 18:33
  the mind. It's what I've played most
• 18:34
  recently that recently that I didn't
• 18:35
  like. But it's like, oh, you didn't like
• 18:37
  Metroid Prime 4, so that means you were
• 18:39
  talking about me.
• 18:40
  >> And if you don't like that, you just
• 18:41
  have to let people enjoy things because
• 18:43
  I'm enjoying this and I'm having fun
• 18:44
  with it. And if you don't like it, it
• 18:46
  means you have a problem with me as a
• 18:48
  person. That obviously couldn't be
• 18:49
  farther from the truth.
• 18:51
  >> There's such a short memory in video
• 18:53
  games. And I think that a lot of the
• 18:56
  times when you think about the games
• 18:58
  that people really love, um I wonder how
• 19:01
  much they really love the game or how
• 19:03
  much they love identifying themselves as
• 19:05
  a fan of the game.
• 19:06
  >> Yeah.
• 19:07
  >> And maybe maybe that's the thing that
• 19:08
  they're really attached to, right? It's
• 19:10
  like how many people have played what
• 19:12
  they say is their favorite game of all
• 19:14
  time in the past year. And it's like
• 19:16
  when you go back to it, maybe there's
• 19:17
  something that about it that doesn't
• 19:20
  speak to you the way that it once was.
• 19:22
  But at the same time, you like being the
• 19:23
  kind of person that identifies as a fan
• 19:26
  of that game, as a huge fan of that
• 19:27
  game.
• 19:28
  >> Yeah.
• 19:28
  >> And uh then when that is the case, that
• 19:32
  is how you become somebody who takes
• 19:34
  offense to other people's criticism.
• 19:36
  Yeah.
• 19:37
  >> Uh when you have somebody online saying,
• 19:40
  "What's a game everybody loves?" Like
• 19:41
  Super Mario World. Um, if I go online
• 19:44
  right now, if I go on Blue Sky, if I
• 19:45
  were to type it out right now, but
• 19:47
  before we finished recording this
• 19:49
  episode, I would have several angry
• 19:52
  responses. And if I said, "How can
• 19:54
  anyone regard Super Mario World as a
• 19:57
  classic when the front page of Reddit
• 20:00
  disembowled in front of everyone?" It
• 20:02
  would be it would be horrific. And it's
• 20:04
  just this it's just this funny thing
• 20:06
  where um that that underdeveloped
• 20:08
  critical arm I think exposes itself
• 20:11
  because why is there so much fear of
• 20:14
  around somebody feeling this way
• 20:17
  >> and yeah I don't know it's such a it's
• 20:19
  such a strange thing. It's like the once
• 20:21
  once you finish reading that take I
• 20:23
  think the only reason it would affect
• 20:25
  you was if you took it personally. If
• 20:27
  you made it about you and not just about
• 20:29
  that person's opinion of a video game.
• 20:31
  >> Yeah. So, so I I think that like let
• 20:34
  people enjoy things
• 20:35
  >> is an abdication of criticism.
• 20:38
  >> Yeah.
• 20:38
  >> Of just of just of just like waving it
• 20:40
  away. And I think it um speaks uh it's a
• 20:43
  like growing problem that has again
• 20:46
  always been in this space. But it seems
• 20:48
  that as um in my view,
• 20:51
  >> I've seen a lot more people want to try
• 20:53
  and have critical voices in the game
• 20:55
  space over the last like 5 years or so
• 20:57
  >> and and want to try to actually say
• 20:58
  these things, but then they sort of get
• 21:00
  shut down by this this sort of fandom
• 21:02
  idea of wanting to just enjoy things,
• 21:05
  let people just play the game how they
• 21:06
  want. And I think it sort of speaks to
• 21:08
  this larger culture of like toxic
• 21:10
  positivity in games that I think um does
• 21:14
  come like largely out of fandom spaces
• 21:16
  and it really just pushes back on the
• 21:19
  idea that anyone can criticize anything.
• 21:21
  Even though I don't I don't know about
• 21:22
  you, I don't view criticism to be
• 21:25
  inherently negative. Do you?
• 21:27
  >> No, of course not. And I also think that
• 21:29
  um reviews aren't inherently criticism.
• 21:32
  So, it's it's it's one of these things
• 21:34
  that when we invoke that word and when I
• 21:36
  see that word even used out in public, I
• 21:39
  have to first discern what exactly it is
• 21:41
  that people are talking about.
• 21:43
  >> But, um yeah, the the the idea of this
• 21:45
  like toxic positivity in video games, I
• 21:48
  think there is a to to edit that idea a
• 21:51
  tiny bit.
• 21:52
  >> Yeah, please. uh performative alignment
• 21:54
  because we see this we see this in the
• 21:57
  direction of positivity and we also see
• 21:59
  it in the direction of negativity and
• 22:00
  what I would say is like performative
• 22:02
  dunking
• 22:03
  >> and we see this all the time in video
• 22:05
  games with the dog piling of whatever
• 22:07
  the thing is that we're all supposed to
• 22:09
  hate that day.
• 22:10
  >> Yeah. And it's I don't know, not to not
• 22:13
  to make light of these things, but I'm
• 22:15
  I'm sure like a bell, we can all
• 22:17
  remember these like phrases where it's
• 22:19
  like, "How many times have you heard
• 22:21
  people say that online? Support indies.
• 22:23
  I want cheaper games with worse
• 22:24
  graphics." They're not often really like
• 22:28
  talking about any specific video game or
• 22:30
  anything they're actually doing. They're
• 22:32
  just signaling what kind of person that
• 22:33
  they want to be seen as online. And this
• 22:36
  is um taste as identity, which I think
• 22:40
  is what a lot of this conversation is
• 22:42
  about. And when you present your to your
• 22:45
  your taste as social positioning more
• 22:48
  than it even is personal preference and
• 22:50
  the tell with this is always the lack of
• 22:52
  specificity and bringing that back to
• 22:57
  uh let people enjoy things. That is the
• 22:59
  most inspecific phrase of all time. Who
• 23:01
  are people? Who are people?
• 23:03
  >> Who? Because you just I I think I think
• 23:06
  uh in the same way that it is like
• 23:08
  abdicating criticism, I think it is also
• 23:09
  abdicating the personal responsibility
• 23:11
  of a feeling, right? Because it's like
• 23:13
  what they're what when someone says that
• 23:15
  I think what they're actually trying to
• 23:16
  say is let me enjoy this.
• 23:19
  >> Yeah, sure.
• 23:20
  >> Because what you said I really
• 23:22
  appreciate about the idea of like it's
• 23:23
  not specific
• 23:25
  people. Who are people? Things. What
• 23:27
  things? Let me enjoy this thing. And I
• 23:31
  don't think there's anything wrong with
• 23:32
  saying like, "Hey, I'm actually playing
• 23:35
  um Super Mario World." And I'm liking it
• 23:37
  quite a bit. I don't like that you're in
• 23:40
  my DMs telling me that it's bad.
• 23:44
  >> But again, that comes back to like just
• 23:45
  being like a like a regular person.
• 23:47
  Like, yeah, don't do that. That's weird.
• 23:49
  What are you doing here?
• 23:50
  >> But like, what if something was bad?
• 23:52
  What if something was actually bad? Not
• 23:53
  bad in like a like a taste way, but bad
• 23:55
  in like a this is this is like a like a
• 23:58
  racist piece of text. Should I still let
• 24:00
  people enjoy things? Like, like the
• 24:02
  phrase isn't good.
• 24:02
  >> Yeah. No,
• 24:03
  >> the phrase is not good,
• 24:04
  >> right? Because it is. It It just
• 24:06
  completely like throws the hands up of
• 24:09
  like, well, it doesn't matter what this
• 24:11
  thing is. It doesn't matter what anyone
• 24:13
  views as enjoyment. Like, yeah, no, no,
• 24:16
  thank you. Um,
• 24:17
  >> there is this enemy of criticism that is
• 24:19
  like this um, you know, a phrase I love
• 24:22
  in my everyday life. All feelings are
• 24:25
  valid, but not all feelings are
• 24:26
  important. And criticism is so like
• 24:30
  >> the act of asserting your own importance
• 24:33
  the the the importance of your own
• 24:35
  perspective. There is something that you
• 24:37
  are by writing it down by presenting it
• 24:38
  to others you are uplifting as
• 24:41
  important.
• 24:42
  >> And I think that like that's why just
• 24:45
  any reaction to any game is is valid and
• 24:49
  real but is it important? It's once once
• 24:52
  it's it's once it's criticism, I think
• 24:54
  it becomes important, but you have to do
• 24:56
  more work to um actually get it there.
• 24:59
  >> Yes. And and I think you got to back it
• 25:00
  up. Uh uh something we talked about a
• 25:02
  little bit a lot last week was um that
• 25:05
  uh that piece on IGN about like uh uh uh
• 25:12
  >> it was something about like, hey, can we
• 25:13
  all please stop dunking on High Guard?
• 25:15
  >> Yes, please stop dunking.
• 25:17
  >> And uh now now Highguard is out. It's a
• 25:19
  game that you and I have played. Uh if
• 25:21
  you are interested in our thoughts on
• 25:22
  it, which are uh primarily positive, uh
• 25:25
  patreon.com/critical error. But um you
• 25:29
  know, you were talking about this idea
• 25:30
  of of what would you say like
• 25:32
  performative uh fandom or or
• 25:35
  performative dunking or however you you
• 25:37
  phrased it. Um there's like inroups in
• 25:40
  games and there's outgroups in games.
• 25:42
  And I think there's this idea of when
• 25:44
  you say like let just let people enjoy
• 25:46
  things. I think it is also trying to
• 25:47
  sort of like take the power of the
• 25:51
  grouping and shift it into saying you
• 25:53
  are actually by behaving this way you
• 25:55
  are in the out group and I'm in the
• 25:57
  inroup and by creating and you're trying
• 25:59
  to like create momentum for your inroup
• 26:01
  of actually I like this thing and it's
• 26:03
  good and it is you the person who's
• 26:05
  criticizing that is bad and in the out
• 26:08
  groupoup and you are in the minority
• 26:09
  opinion here and because of that you
• 26:10
  should be shunned and made fun of
• 26:12
  online. Hating the right game functions
• 26:15
  exactly the same as loving the right
• 26:17
  indie game. It is just about telling
• 26:19
  your peers that you are on the right
• 26:21
  side of the collective consciousness.
• 26:23
  Yes. And unfortunately for Highg guard
• 26:26
  it it is aligned with Jeff Keley who in
• 26:30
  games media you got to pretend that you
• 26:32
  hate while you spend hundreds of dollars
• 26:34
  to go to his show and you know and then
• 26:37
  and you know it uh it did the it did the
• 26:39
  reveal there. It had the bad trailer. It
• 26:41
  did all this other I don't know. It's a
• 26:42
  games as a service. It's it's this this
• 26:44
  tired genre. All this other stuff. It's
• 26:46
  got all these things that I think are
• 26:48
  contributing to making an ungenerous
• 26:51
  viewer when you finally sit down to look
• 26:53
  at this game. And it's funny because I
• 26:56
  think that there is a let people hate
• 26:59
  things that emerged because of
• 27:02
  Highguard.
• 27:03
  >> Yes. But it is it is fun. it is serving
• 27:05
  the exact same function as let people
• 27:08
  enjoy things because it just it's on the
• 27:10
  opposite end of the spectrum and it is
• 27:12
  again I think to create an in-group and
• 27:14
  an outgroup and um uh uh it has been
• 27:18
  really interesting seeing the response
• 27:19
  to this game from people who sort of
• 27:21
  walk in with a preconceived notion of oh
• 27:23
  I'm not going to like this they play it
• 27:24
  for like an hour and a half two hours
• 27:26
  and they go yeah I didn't like it
• 27:27
  because I didn't think I would and then
• 27:29
  when they are giving criticism I I
• 27:31
  watched a few reviews of Highguard
• 27:33
  online on YouTube. Uh, and I was kind of
• 27:36
  surprised by the lack of specificity in
• 27:39
  them and by the lack of actual critical
• 27:42
  analysis. Now, here's the thing. I like
• 27:44
  the game. It is perfectly valid if
• 27:45
  someone doesn't like it. However, I do
• 27:48
  think that in order to create a
• 27:49
  well-crafted review, and this is just
• 27:51
  like the basics of the craft, right, is
• 27:53
  like if you're saying something is bad,
• 27:55
  you got to tell me why, and you have to
• 27:57
  be specific. You, you know, like just
• 27:59
  saying like, "Oh, it's generic."
• 28:00
  Generic? What do you mean? In what way?
• 28:03
  you need I need specificity towards what
• 28:05
  you're trying to say here because you're
• 28:07
  welcome to think it's generic, but I
• 28:08
  need to hear why. And you can't just
• 28:09
  like deploy these like uh common phrases
• 28:12
  that we use to say something is bad in
• 28:14
  games without actually
• 28:18
  pointing at evidence in the actual game
• 28:19
  and say this is why.
• 28:21
  >> Yeah. You have to you have to perform
• 28:22
  the act of criticism. You have to
• 28:24
  participate in the arting. I know.
• 28:27
  >> And and it's so funny, dude. That's why
• 28:28
  the the complete collapse of this stuff
• 28:30
  has just made discourse so degenerate
• 28:33
  because somebody's review of the game is
• 28:36
  like functionally similar to like
• 28:39
  anybody in games media spouting off a
• 28:41
  couple of posts. It's like the same
• 28:43
  thing because ultimately the only thing
• 28:45
  we care about is like the summary at the
• 28:48
  end of the review and the score good
• 28:50
  bad. Um, and you know, I I think I
• 28:53
  started this discussion by introducing
• 28:55
  this idea of like I think if you asked
• 28:57
  people like to define criticism that
• 28:59
  would kind of stop them in their tracks.
• 29:00
  I think another term that would be
• 29:02
  similarly hard for people to um identify
• 29:05
  or describe is love.
• 29:08
  >> And you know, I think oftentimes people
• 29:13
  mistake love as approval, but I like to
• 29:15
  think love as of love more as attention.
• 29:19
  And nothing can be examined without
• 29:23
  love.
• 29:24
  >> Yeah.
• 29:24
  >> And there's this like
• 29:28
  there's this there's this weird notion
• 29:30
  and attitude towards being critical of
• 29:33
  games and negatively evaluating them
• 29:36
  that I think people forget that the act
• 29:39
  of interrogation, the act, the art of
• 29:41
  criticism is one of love. It is one of
• 29:44
  attention. Yes.
• 29:45
  >> And if you are not in if you are not
• 29:49
  invoking love or revealing love in your
• 29:51
  interrogation of these games, I know
• 29:54
  you're not performing criticism because
• 29:56
  that's what criticism is. It's attention
• 29:57
  >> because it's it's this thing that you
• 29:59
  hear so frequently about like, oh, these
• 30:01
  games journalists don't even like games.
• 30:03
  They're in it for and then I have no
• 30:05
  idea what anyone would say. The money.
• 30:07
  Haha. Um, I guess but like it's it's to
• 30:11
  what you're saying like no, if you don't
• 30:12
  love this as an art form, if you don't
• 30:14
  love the way games make you feel, you
• 30:16
  just wouldn't be in this space. Like
• 30:18
  like that's just true. It is honestly
• 30:21
  [ __ ] miserable. Like it is it's
• 30:24
  miserable. It's terrible. And and in
• 30:26
  terms of like what it is like to
• 30:27
  actually work in this space and I think
• 30:30
  it is
• 30:32
  criticism is an act of love because it
• 30:35
  is someone expressing like I love this
• 30:36
  art form. I love this medium. Here's how
• 30:39
  this work
• 30:41
  helps push that medium forward. Here's
• 30:44
  how it helps uh uh uh like uh solidify
• 30:49
  previous uh iterations of the medium or
• 30:53
  how it lets down the history of the
• 30:55
  medium. It it's it's it should be
• 30:57
  specific and and and like that. I I
• 30:59
  really like what you said right there
• 31:00
  about that. We had a comment on last
• 31:03
  week's podcast that said, "I really
• 31:04
  appreciate how every episode of Critical
• 31:06
  Error has like a call to action." I
• 31:08
  thought that was a really cool comment.
• 31:09
  And I think what I'm thinking about with
• 31:11
  this episode now is that I I do think
• 31:14
  that games media could stand to be
• 31:16
  pushed in the direction of saying
• 31:19
  clearly what you believe and why and
• 31:21
  being bold and incisive in that. Because
• 31:24
  I do think that the attitudes behind let
• 31:27
  people enjoy things and the kind of
• 31:29
  performative disdain that we see all the
• 31:30
  time are two ways of avoiding the same
• 31:33
  responsibility. And it is the
• 31:35
  responsibility of being unique, of being
• 31:38
  bold and incisive in your own
• 31:40
  perspective, saying clearly what you
• 31:42
  believe and why.
• 31:43
  >> And it feels like people constantly
• 31:46
  hedge so that they don't have to do
• 31:48
  this. And I feel like you see this in so
• 31:49
  many different forms. It's it's it's not
• 31:52
  only like making excuses for, you know,
• 31:56
  every every experience is valid, phony
• 31:58
  bologoney. It's like, of course, every
• 31:59
  experience is valid. Like, shut up.
• 32:01
  Like, that's not what we're that's not
• 32:02
  what we're here to do. We're going a
• 32:03
  step above that. And but it's like I I
• 32:06
  feel like I see this all the time when
• 32:07
  when discourse around any specific video
• 32:10
  game is brought up. And I feel like you
• 32:12
  see calcified opinions and reputations
• 32:16
  brought up to defend or deride a game.
• 32:20
  And no one is actually. So, you know,
• 32:22
  something we talk about on the bonus
• 32:23
  spot a lot is that sometimes people will
• 32:26
  ask us, they'll be like, "Hey, what's a
• 32:28
  good example of this idea in a video
• 32:30
  game?" And it's like, Jake, just pull
• 32:32
  back into your the library in your brain
• 32:35
  of video games and pull out an example.
• 32:37
  And I always say the same thing. I'm not
• 32:38
  good at that. I can't do that because
• 32:40
  what I do is close read a text. And I
• 32:44
  can only experience a text really as I
• 32:47
  am now. And that's part of it. That's
• 32:48
  part of how you generate meaning is is
• 32:51
  in that experience. Yes.
• 32:52
  >> So to kind of default to a calcified
• 32:55
  opinion or a reputation or maybe an
• 32:57
  opinion that secretly implanted its way
• 32:59
  into my mind as a you in a YouTube video
• 33:00
  and I've held on to for years is again
• 33:04
  the abdication of this responsibility.
• 33:06
  The abdication of generating meaning
• 33:08
  between the thing and yourself. And
• 33:11
  that's I I just feel like there's like a
• 33:12
  real fear of that in the game space or
• 33:15
  an insistence to like do anything you
• 33:17
  can to avoid doing that work.
• 33:18
  >> Yeah. So, I've got a question for you.
• 33:19
  And now I this is not what this uh uh
• 33:22
  episode is about, but there was this um
• 33:24
  uh tweet from Sven Sven [ __ ] from uh uh
• 33:28
  Larian Studios. Uh basically talking
• 33:30
  about how um he thinks it would be a
• 33:32
  great idea for critics to get scores
• 33:34
  similar to like Metacritic scores so
• 33:36
  that people can sort of like judge if
• 33:38
  they're a good critic or not and
• 33:39
  whatever. Uh, and the response to this
• 33:41
  has been sort of all over the place and
• 33:42
  whatever. Again, this is not what this
• 33:44
  episode is about, but there was an
• 33:45
  interesting response from uh Luke
• 33:46
  Plunkett at Aftermath. And Luke wrote,
• 33:50
  "I wrote a freelance piece for an outlet
• 33:51
  outside of games a couple of years ago,
• 33:53
  and the editor reached out and said,
• 33:54
  Luke, your writing is so defensive. Why
• 33:56
  are you couching and qualifying every
• 33:58
  single thought you have, and I have to
• 34:00
  say, I worked at Kotaku for 17 years.
• 34:02
  Have you seen the internet?" And I think
• 34:04
  this is an interesting sort of point.
• 34:05
  and and the thread here is is um uh
• 34:08
  interesting and whatever Lucas I think a
• 34:11
  a great writer. Um but what I'm trying
• 34:13
  to get at here is this idea of I think
• 34:15
  that so often the idea of let people
• 34:19
  enjoy things or whatever sort of uh uh
• 34:21
  fandom response that happens with
• 34:24
  criticism is often then used as a way to
• 34:27
  like like we said like put someone in an
• 34:29
  out group and then frequently there is
• 34:31
  like dog piling on that person. And so I
• 34:34
  think that a lot of people tend to maybe
• 34:35
  write from a um defensive perspective
• 34:38
  and maybe don't want to actually get
• 34:41
  real and say things and whatever out of
• 34:43
  fear of backlash on the internet, which
• 34:45
  I do understand, but I would urge as you
• 34:47
  were saying about this idea of like a
• 34:49
  call to action or whatever. I would urge
• 34:51
  critics write honestly, write
• 34:53
  truthfully.
• 34:55
  Well, and don't be confused because what
• 34:58
  what the mistake that Sven is making in
• 35:00
  that in that tweet is the idea that
• 35:04
  there is a pure true truth that every
• 35:08
  critic is trying to reach and people
• 35:10
  reach that truth at different levels of
• 35:12
  success. It is secretly that tweet is
• 35:14
  secretly objectivity discourse. And it's
• 35:17
  funny, it's like your value is in how
• 35:20
  agreeable you are. how many people can
• 35:23
  the consensus can cosign the take that
• 35:25
  you arrived at. Whereas like criticism
• 35:28
  has never it's not a popularity contest.
• 35:30
  It's just an argument and scoring
• 35:33
  criticism again is treating people to
• 35:36
  read like reviews or whatever as um like
• 35:40
  PR as like vibes management as as like a
• 35:43
  as like a Yeah, it's it's terrible.
• 35:45
  >> I think you said this earlier, but I
• 35:47
  just want to like hit on it again. And I
• 35:48
  feel like the like we were talking about
• 35:50
  sort of the the uh deconstruction of the
• 35:53
  idea of like games media and games
• 35:54
  criticism and it's like sort of like
• 35:56
  being molded back just into like PR
• 35:59
  speak for these like you know major
• 36:01
  companies and stuff like that. The
• 36:03
  phrase let people enjoy things is the
• 36:05
  most like PR like like like Discord
• 36:09
  moderator type response to criticism
• 36:12
  that that's what PR does. Right. Right.
• 36:15
  like it is it is meant to say, "Hey, I
• 36:17
  know you're trying to say something
• 36:18
  here. I know you're trying to use the uh
• 36:21
  medium of criticism to make an argument
• 36:23
  to make a point to uh point something
• 36:26
  out about this piece of art." But what
• 36:28
  if we don't think about that? Because if
• 36:29
  we start thinking about this a little
• 36:31
  too critically, it might cause people to
• 36:32
  say, "I don't want to buy this game."
• 36:34
  >> Yeah. Something you exposed there is
• 36:36
  that let people enjoy things is secretly
• 36:38
  like status quo upholding and correct
• 36:41
  conservative in ideology.
• 36:43
  >> And that's what VR does.
• 36:44
  >> Yep. Then it's the exact same expression
• 36:46
  that you could use if uh you and I are
• 36:49
  criticizing um Xbox and we are
• 36:52
  proponents of like BDS. Somebody could
• 36:54
  say Jake, hey, you're criticizing, let
• 36:56
  people enjoy, let people enjoy Xbox, let
• 36:58
  people enjoy things. Like that's the
• 37:00
  exact same defense that one could use.
• 37:02
  And it is um I think like in every in
• 37:05
  every
• 37:07
  serious conversation, it is just an
• 37:09
  enemy to progress and more interesting
• 37:12
  work and uh dilutes any discussion. Just
• 37:15
  turns it into well but what if you just
• 37:17
  presented the most bland take possible
• 37:20
  and um I think we should all just click
• 37:22
  onto reviews and it should say if insert
• 37:26
  game here is for you, you will like it.
• 37:30
  >> Right. And that's why I think it it we
• 37:32
  sort of said this at the top like
• 37:34
  >> uh you know this isn't for me feels like
• 37:37
  such a similar phrase because it kind of
• 37:40
  assumes that like we talked about like
• 37:41
  the idea of like let people who people
• 37:43
  you know not for me for who who are we
• 37:46
  talking about? I'm reading a review
• 37:47
  because you are talking about it. Um I'm
• 37:50
  reading this review because I'm
• 37:51
  interested in what you have to say and
• 37:52
  your what you have to say has nothing to
• 37:54
  do with my enjoyment of a thing of a
• 37:56
  game of whatever. Um, yeah. I I find it
• 37:59
  to be this very bizarre response and and
• 38:02
  you know, you said that um it dilutes
• 38:05
  discussion and I don't even know if
• 38:07
  that's true. I think it just stops
• 38:08
  discussion.
• 38:10
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:11
  >> Like how are you supposed how are you
• 38:12
  even supposed to respond to that if
• 38:13
  you're like, "Let me enjoy this." I
• 38:16
  would be like, "Okay." It just sounds
• 38:17
  like you don't want to talk about this.
• 38:19
  I was thinking about how you would train
• 38:20
  people because it's the kind of thing
• 38:21
  where if you have a game that the
• 38:23
  audience, the people online are
• 38:26
  extremely for it, then you are being
• 38:29
  trained to not harsh the vibe. But but
• 38:32
  if you have a game that people are
• 38:34
  extremely against and then you have a
• 38:36
  review and you want to be positive for
• 38:38
  it, um now you are a a fanboy, a shill,
• 38:42
  whatever it is. is it's like you're
• 38:44
  you're ruining both both aspects of this
• 38:47
  are ruining the consensus but by but the
• 38:51
  thing about disrupting consensus is that
• 38:54
  how it feels is that everybody is
• 38:57
  engaging in a
• 39:00
  >> subreddit. It's it's a funny thing,
• 39:02
  right? It's I I brought that up earlier
• 39:03
  where you're like you're in the fan
• 39:05
  space and I think that's how consensus
• 39:07
  can feel sometimes. It's like we all
• 39:09
  agree this thing is good on Blue Sky. We
• 39:11
  all agree that this thing is bad. So now
• 39:14
  when you are posting positively about
• 39:16
  High Guard,
• 39:19
  >> that's that's about you. You're doing
• 39:21
  something that you should not be doing
• 39:22
  in this space.
• 39:23
  >> Yes. And
• 39:24
  >> you're outside of the consensus. Yeah.
• 39:25
  >> And you're ruining you're ruining the
• 39:26
  fun that we're all having being on the
• 39:28
  same side.
• 39:29
  >> Yeah. Because that's what it is, right?
• 39:30
  I mean, like think about Highguard
• 39:32
  specifically like uh there's like this
• 39:34
  game that people online are playing
• 39:36
  right now and it is like, "Oh, I'm just
• 39:37
  going to go like review bomb this
• 39:39
  thing." And it's almost like it is even
• 39:41
  outside of like the uh specific
• 39:44
  qualities of the game, right? I think
• 39:46
  like uh uh when like Concord came out, I
• 39:51
  think there were a lot of things about
• 39:52
  that game that people didn't like,
• 39:54
  right? And of course like there's like
• 39:55
  all of the shitty stuff surrounding. I'm
• 39:57
  not talking about that, but I'm talking
• 39:58
  about like I I think that was a a game
• 40:00
  that just did not click with people in a
• 40:03
  in a meaningful way. And so people could
• 40:06
  cite those things if they're leaving a
• 40:09
  review for it and say like, "Hey, this
• 40:10
  is bad. Hey, this is wrong. Hey, I don't
• 40:11
  like this game." But whereas like
• 40:13
  Highguard, it feels like so many people
• 40:16
  are not even taking those like the
• 40:18
  actual qualities of the game into
• 40:20
  consideration and it has become a game,
• 40:22
  a fun thing to do for people to like
• 40:24
  band together and be like, "Hey, this
• 40:26
  sucks. Hey, uh, let people hate things."
• 40:28
  And then, as you said, you pop in and
• 40:30
  you say, "Hey, actually, I I think the
• 40:32
  game's pretty good. I think the game is
• 40:33
  actually pretty fun. It's like whoa
• 40:35
  whoa. You actually aren't you're kind of
• 40:36
  harshing the vibe of us playing this
• 40:38
  game of like getting to hate on dunk on
• 40:41
  whatever this this thing. And I think I
• 40:43
  wonder about the how complicit some of
• 40:48
  to to be honest, not to, you know, um,
• 40:51
  some of games media is in this, right?
• 40:53
  Because I think when we talk about the
• 40:55
  importance and the responsibility that
• 40:57
  criticism has unto itself, it is tough
• 41:00
  for me to see a article on IGN titled
• 41:05
  High Guard review in progress and then
• 41:07
  you read the article and it's based on
• 41:08
  the 5h hour preview event and it's like
• 41:11
  this is the it's it's based on the exact
• 41:13
  same content that many other websites uh
• 41:16
  put up a similar article and called it
• 41:17
  first impressions called it a preview.
• 41:19
  And it's like to to use that content and
• 41:21
  say that this is a review. Are you not
• 41:24
  training your audience member to think
• 41:26
  of reviews in a certain way? Are you not
• 41:28
  training them to think that it's you can
• 41:30
  arrive at a review on first like like
• 41:33
  you know it's it's it's your you're
• 41:35
  you're weakening the what it's supposed
• 41:36
  to be. I think that creates a culture of
• 41:40
  shallow takes and bad analysis.
• 41:42
  >> Yeah. And I think I think it comes back
• 41:44
  to the idea of like so much of this is
• 41:46
  it just becomes like PR, right? and the
• 41:48
  the integration of these sort of
• 41:50
  specific unique voices.
• 41:52
  >> Um and and it it's kind of a shame
• 41:56
  because I think that
• 41:57
  >> um
• 42:00
  what a world it would be if if we did
• 42:02
  not have like continued and frequent
• 42:04
  like critical consensus about games. I
• 42:06
  think it would just be more interesting.
• 42:07
  I think people would be saying more
• 42:08
  interesting stuff about it if if you
• 42:10
  know I think there would there's like a
• 42:12
  certain level of critical consensus of
• 42:13
  hey this game is good, hey this game is
• 42:15
  bad largely, right? But like um
• 42:19
  I think we would have a lot more
• 42:21
  interesting sort of middle opinions
• 42:23
  about stuff. You know, you talk about
• 42:25
  like Donkey Kong Bonanza, whatever. A
• 42:26
  game that seems to in time, um people
• 42:30
  seem to have like cooled on that game,
• 42:32
  what I would call like significantly
• 42:34
  just based on my experience of seeing
• 42:35
  people talk about it online. But it's
• 42:37
  like, but because you said all of that
• 42:38
  right away when everyone was like, "No,
• 42:40
  we are in let people enjoy things mode.
• 42:42
  We are in um the game is new. The game
• 42:44
  is out." Nintendo said it's fun. It's
• 42:46
  fun. We played it. New Donkey Kong
• 42:48
  excitement mode.
• 42:50
  You are harshing the vibe. But now that
• 42:52
  the vibe is has cooled down a little
• 42:53
  bit, I think people are more open to it.
• 42:55
  And I think that's frustrating.
• 42:56
  >> It's a it's an interesting thing, too,
• 42:58
  right? Because um I was kind of in a
• 43:00
  unique position as somebody not doing it
• 43:03
  for a website or whatever, but like
• 43:05
  writing a review for Donkey Kong Bonanza
• 43:08
  um I don't know, a month plus after that
• 43:10
  game came out. So, I'm actually talking
• 43:12
  to people who have played the game. And
• 43:14
  it's one of these things where it's like
• 43:17
  the sharpening of a perspective. Um what
• 43:20
  makes a review good? What makes a review
• 43:22
  good? Is it one that you agree with?
• 43:25
  Like when if if I go online and I
• 43:27
  publish a review and I say I'm really
• 43:29
  proud of this one, what am I saying? Why
• 43:31
  why what makes me more proud of one
• 43:33
  review than another? I put a lot of work
• 43:35
  into it. And I think um
• 43:38
  what I aim for at least or just to speak
• 43:41
  for myself is that I arrive at something
• 43:45
  that feels really true to me. I arrive
• 43:47
  at something and I'm like this is it
• 43:50
  actually. And it's about finding
• 43:53
  something, placing something within
• 43:54
  myself and my own experience more than
• 43:57
  it is about um
• 44:00
  I don't know listing stuff out from the
• 44:03
  game. I think to um what you're saying
• 44:05
  about like oh it feels true to me like
• 44:07
  when I've written a review that I think
• 44:08
  people are going to walk away from being
• 44:10
  like oh I understand this guy a little
• 44:11
  bit better.
• 44:12
  >> I think because it is it is crit like
• 44:14
  criticism is a form of expression right
• 44:16
  and it's a form of like saying like this
• 44:18
  is where I'm coming from. And I think if
• 44:21
  you walk away from my review being like
• 44:22
  oh I'm be I understand a little bit more
• 44:25
  about where that guy comes from.
• 44:27
  >> I think I think that is is something to
• 44:29
  be proud of and a show of good work. Um,
• 44:33
  and and you know, you mentioned too
• 44:34
  about like, you know, talking points
• 44:36
  from PR and whatever. I think so many
• 44:38
  reviews tend to sort of resort to just
• 44:40
  listing um, features that were mentioned
• 44:44
  in marketing and then go, "Yep, it's
• 44:46
  here." And, you know, without sort of
• 44:48
  like analysis of of
• 44:51
  those matter, if those are a big part of
• 44:54
  the experience.
• 44:56
  The motorcycle in Metroid Prime 4 was so
• 44:59
  was so heavily marketed. Does it matter
• 45:03
  >> at all?
• 45:04
  >> No. But who's talking about it in that
• 45:07
  way? You know what I mean?
• 45:09
  >> Yeah. That really is just um the the way
• 45:13
  in which I think people are allowing
• 45:16
  outside forces to shape them and shape
• 45:18
  how they even interact with something
• 45:20
  because there is something kind of
• 45:22
  interesting I guess about
• 45:26
  when when I think about Highguard um
• 45:28
  what people are interested in talking
• 45:30
  about and how they're interested in
• 45:31
  approaching that game because of the
• 45:33
  conversation that has been built up by
• 45:35
  the consensus where it's like I have to
• 45:37
  address this I have to speak on their
• 45:39
  terms, you know, rather than your own.
• 45:41
  >> You know what's kind of fascinating
• 45:42
  about that? Um I I saw someone online
• 45:45
  say like, "Oh, what's interesting about
• 45:46
  Highguard is that the discussion
• 45:47
  surrounding it is more interesting than
• 45:49
  Highguard is."
• 45:50
  >> And like I simply couldn't agree less
• 45:53
  like like I think that the actual like
• 45:55
  cuz I think that that is true sometimes.
• 45:57
  Sometimes the discussion surrounding a
• 45:58
  video game is more interesting like uh
• 46:00
  horses right from from last year at the
• 46:02
  end of the year. Like I think the
• 46:03
  discussion surrounding horses and
• 46:05
  surrounding um like censorship on on
• 46:08
  Steam and Epic Games and all that sort
• 46:09
  of stuff is fascinating, especially when
• 46:11
  it when you start like looking into like
• 46:13
  okay well what does what do these online
• 46:14
  marketplaces allow on their platforms.
• 46:17
  That conversation I find to be
• 46:19
  significantly more fascinating than
• 46:20
  anything that Horses is trying to say.
• 46:22
  But when it comes to something like
• 46:23
  Highguard, I'm like no no there is an
• 46:25
  interesting game here. And I think the
• 46:26
  least interesting part about this is
• 46:28
  sort of this the the cultural consensus
• 46:31
  about it because the cultural consensus
• 46:32
  about it is largely not taking into
• 46:34
  account what the game is and what it is
• 46:36
  doing and what it's trying to do.
• 46:38
  >> It's funny and I even think that we are
• 46:39
  kind of like victims of the environment
• 46:41
  that we find ourselves in right now
• 46:43
  because um I almost feel like I can't
• 46:46
  talk about Highguard without being like
• 46:48
  addressing all of the stuff that people
• 46:50
  say about it.
• 46:50
  >> 100%.
• 46:51
  >> So it's Yeah. Yeah. So, it's this weird
• 46:53
  thing where it's like there's there's
• 46:54
  not a lot of space to like actually talk
• 46:56
  about the game. And I also feel to be
• 46:58
  honest that there's an unpreparedness on
• 47:00
  the part of my like interlocators with
• 47:02
  this game because something that you and
• 47:03
  I have discovered is that we actually
• 47:05
  think that maybe we have played a bit
• 47:07
  more of this game than a lot of the
• 47:09
  people who have been talking about it
• 47:11
  online uh just through happen stance. We
• 47:13
  had we had a few nights in a row where
• 47:15
  this was just what we were playing. And
• 47:18
  I know that we both kind of had this
• 47:20
  experience of our relationship with the
• 47:22
  game developing over time and our
• 47:24
  thoughts on it changing as is the case
• 47:27
  with every single piece of art I've ever
• 47:30
  encountered in my life.
• 47:31
  >> Yeah. Usually when you spend more time
• 47:33
  with a thing and you are able to like
• 47:35
  work through your understanding and
• 47:36
  feeling of it, whatever. Whatever. Who
• 47:37
  cares?
• 47:38
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's just one
• 47:39
  of these things where it's it's like um
• 47:43
  just let people enjoy things. It's like
• 47:45
  >> just let people enjoy things. It's like
• 47:47
  don't do work.
• 47:48
  >> Don't do work.
• 47:49
  >> Oh, that is kind of what it's asking,
• 47:50
  right?
• 47:50
  >> Like don't do nobody do any work. Decide
• 47:53
  right off the top if this is something
• 47:54
  you like or something you don't like.
• 47:56
  And all of that is good. There is no
• 47:58
  version of you. A piece that I actually
• 48:01
  quite liked quite a bit that I published
• 48:03
  last year on my blog was my review of
• 48:05
  that indie game Morsels. And
• 48:07
  >> oh yeah,
• 48:08
  >> I start from a position of the first
• 48:09
  time I play Mors, I think it [ __ ]
• 48:12
  sucks. Like that's the first sentence of
• 48:13
  the essay. And um and it's funny, man.
• 48:16
  It's like one of these things where I
• 48:18
  actually expected that to be very like
• 48:20
  not PR friendly. And I you know what I
• 48:24
  mean? Being like, "Oh yeah, the first
• 48:25
  time I played this game, I truly think
• 48:26
  it's terrible." I remember going online
• 48:29
  to play Fortnite with you and telling
• 48:30
  you, "Oh, this Marshalls game is not
• 48:32
  good." Yes.
• 48:33
  >> And but then I kind of like gave myself
• 48:35
  the room to be like,
• 48:36
  >> "I need to I need to think through this
• 48:38
  a little bit more." And I played it a
• 48:40
  little bit more, played it a little bit
• 48:40
  more, and my thoughts really developed
• 48:42
  around that game. And even though I
• 48:43
  start that essay with the first time I
• 48:45
  play Mors I think it [ __ ] sucks, the
• 48:48
  person who was in charge of the PR for
• 48:49
  that game and the president of the
• 48:51
  studio both reposted that piece and I
• 48:53
  was you know what I mean? So it's like
• 48:54
  it's this thing where it's I I don't
• 48:56
  think it's quite as like
• 48:59
  I don't know. I think I think people uh
• 49:00
  are too ready to accept the invitation
• 49:03
  to be boring.
• 49:04
  >> Yes. And because I think when you say
• 49:05
  like when when when you use let people
• 49:08
  enjoy things as sort of the metric for
• 49:10
  like the barometer for the conversation,
• 49:12
  you are shutting out the ability for
• 49:14
  someone to have um a genuine emotional
• 49:17
  experience with something cuz I I didn't
• 49:19
  play morals. I but I had a similar
• 49:20
  experience with the game Saro where like
• 49:22
  that is a game where when I played it uh
• 49:25
  for the second I tried it when it came
• 49:27
  out and I bounced off whatever when I
• 49:28
  came back to it to like really try it I
• 49:30
  was like this is a terrible video game.
• 49:33
  this is like a like a monumentally bad
• 49:35
  video game,
• 49:37
  but I took the time to like I kept
• 49:39
  coming back to it for whatever reason.
• 49:40
  And then that has shaped my
• 49:41
  understanding of it and I'm like I think
• 49:43
  this is one of the best games ever made.
• 49:45
  And if you are just coming from the the
• 49:47
  perspective of well just let people
• 49:48
  enjoy things then I don't get to have
• 49:49
  that moment. I don't get to have that
• 49:50
  realization and I don't get to have that
• 49:52
  journey of understanding for something
• 49:54
  because like then my perspective on it
• 49:57
  is is null and void in in the in in that
• 49:59
  space. Right? if if we can only enjoy
• 50:01
  things.
• 50:02
  >> It really it really is this idea of of
• 50:04
  let people enjoy things is don't do work
• 50:07
  like because that that is that is what
• 50:08
  it is. And it's this funny thing where
• 50:10
  we talked about this on the bonus pod
• 50:11
  patreon patreon.com/critical error where
• 50:14
  like sometimes the most satisfying
• 50:16
  things the most the most like indelible
• 50:18
  experiences we have with any fiction any
• 50:21
  art are the things that require a little
• 50:23
  bit of work to get to the meaning that
• 50:26
  require you to put something in to get
• 50:28
  something out of it. And um I bet you
• 50:31
  people listening to this podcast right
• 50:32
  now have experiences that they are
• 50:35
  thinking about right now where they're
• 50:36
  like, "Yes, I had to put a little bit of
• 50:39
  work in and then I got a lot out of
• 50:41
  this." And with that said, um I do want
• 50:45
  to give a shout out to the people who
• 50:48
  support this podcast, particularly those
• 50:50
  first off at the $20 tier, Peter, which
• 50:54
  is crazy because at the $10 tier, you
• 50:56
  get everything that this has that this
• 50:58
  that this production has to offer. We
• 51:01
  had a little uh we had a little
• 51:02
  community party in Animal Crossing last
• 51:04
  week. We are we are currently running a
• 51:07
  critical error book club in which we are
• 51:08
  reading an actual book. So, if that's an
• 51:11
  experience that's interesting to you
• 51:12
  about maybe sharpening some tools in
• 51:15
  your uh craft tool set, a great way to
• 51:19
  do that is to apply those tools to a
• 51:22
  different medium and then see what you
• 51:23
  can take back to the one that you care
• 51:25
  most about. So, if any of those perks
• 51:27
  sound interesting to you, you can join
• 51:29
  members at patreon.com/critical
• 51:32
  error like the top tier members at the
• 51:35
  Jake and Peter tier that is of course
• 51:37
  Robert Quesada, Monroe, Evan Cne, Ancel
• 51:41
  Trait, Evan Pon, and Andrew Bular.
• 51:45
  Godamn, thank you for supporting the
• 51:47
  show.
• 51:47
  >> Thank you so much. It means so much to
• 51:48
  us. And Jake, every week you prepare a
• 51:51
  sound effect. Is that correct? For the
• 51:53
  members of the Critical Error Royalty.
• 51:55
  >> That's right. Yeah, that's right. Not
• 51:56
  just the Jake and Peter tier, but that's
• 51:57
  just $10 and up. Critical error royalty.
• 52:00
  That is all it takes to be part of this
• 52:03
  glorious, glorious
• 52:05
  >> sound effect. Peter, I think this week
• 52:08
  I'm feeling a little horny.
• 52:11
  >> Oh,
• 52:12
  >> I think I think And now by saying that
• 52:15
  on the podcast, I'm going to have to
• 52:17
  figure out how to make a horny sound
• 52:18
  effect. Exactly. Which I think would be
• 52:20
  a fun challenge. So, I think I'm going
• 52:22
  to hornyax this sound effect from the
• 52:25
  Critical Error Nation. Let's play the
• 52:28
  sound.
• 52:30
  Yeah,
• 52:31
  that's right.
• 52:34
  Critical error royalty.
• 52:36
  That's who we're talking about, baby.
• 52:39
  Let's go.
• 52:41
  Yeah. Brianna Bossman, Thick Dick
• 52:45
  Mystic, Pinky Oats, Shin Koja Cole, Sam
• 52:50
  Woods, Jared Kuseno, Dick Richtor, James
• 52:54
  Bid, Sam Cedar, Danny Disaster, Connor,
• 52:58
  True Love,
• 53:01
  Robert Casada,
• 53:04
  Mero,
• 53:06
  Anel, Trait, Evan Ponz,
• 53:10
  Andrew Bular,
• 53:12
  It's critical error, baby. Don't forget
• 53:15
  it.
• 53:16
  >> I hope it was good.
• 53:17
  >> I bet it was.
• 53:18
  >> I hope it was.
• 53:18
  >> I Well, I hope it was good for you, too.
• 53:20
  >> Okay, good.
• 53:21
  >> Hey,
• 53:24
  >> how do we close the show?
• 53:25
  >> Jake, every week one of us prepares a
• 53:27
  written piece
• 53:29
  >> um that we've worked on this week. It is
• 53:31
  my week. I have written something. I
• 53:32
  wrote this last night and this morning.
• 53:35
  Um I've been reflecting a little bit on
• 53:37
  my relationship to the content that I
• 53:39
  consume. Um because this is a period of
• 53:41
  my life that's a little stressful uh in
• 53:43
  terms of work. I I've been juggling a
• 53:45
  bunch of stuff and uh I've been thinking
• 53:47
  about like well what have I been
• 53:48
  consuming in my off time? What I've been
• 53:50
  what have I I've been consuming when I'm
• 53:52
  not at work or when I'm trying to take a
• 53:54
  quick break.
• 53:55
  >> Love this topic. Love this topic.
• 53:57
  Excited to hear what you what you wrote.
• 53:59
  >> Here we go.
• 54:01
  >> I don't think I have a gambling
• 54:02
  addiction, but I do have an addiction to
• 54:05
  watching these millionaire [ __ ]
• 54:06
  gamble on TikTok.
• 54:08
  >> Mhm.
• 54:08
  >> I have no idea why. I mean, I do like to
• 54:11
  gamble. That's not a secret. But there's
• 54:12
  something about watching the worst
• 54:14
  people on planet Earth try to tell me
• 54:16
  that if only I bet like them, I might be
• 54:18
  able to live the lives of luxury that
• 54:20
  they so enjoy. You know, hanging out in
• 54:23
  dingy rooms full of cigarette smoke,
• 54:25
  playing blackjack and Texas Holde. And
• 54:28
  actually, that sounds pretty good. I
• 54:30
  don't think I have a gambling addiction
• 54:31
  because I don't have enough money to
• 54:33
  have a gambling addiction. I look at
• 54:34
  these guys, Vegas, Matt, John Sarasani,
• 54:37
  Bluff, the Emma Gambles. Yes, those are
• 54:39
  all real. And it takes one single second
• 54:41
  of recollection to remember the tens if
• 54:44
  not hundreds of thousands of dollars
• 54:46
  I've watched them lose recorded on an
• 54:49
  iPhone or those meta ray bands that
• 54:52
  should be illegal and the fantasy comes
• 54:54
  crashing down. But it takes just one
• 54:56
  video with a caption like every
• 54:58
  blackjack player dreams of a legendary
• 55:00
  run like this for the fantasy to be
• 55:02
  rebuilt entirely. for me to buy back in
• 55:06
  on watching these people gamble over and
• 55:08
  over and over again. It is the lowest
• 55:11
  form of lowbrow content that exists and
• 55:13
  I might be addicted to it. I don't think
• 55:17
  the fantasy of it comes entirely from
• 55:19
  the idea of being able to gamble all day
• 55:21
  and win money because I've seen these
• 55:23
  guys lose a lot, like a lot. Instead, I
• 55:28
  think the fantasy of bluff or whatever
• 55:30
  other guy wearing an ugly graphic
• 55:32
  t-shirt in some casino eight blocks away
• 55:34
  from the Vegas strip has more to do with
• 55:36
  the ability to lose money without
• 55:37
  breaking a sweat. Vegas Matt is the
• 55:40
  poster boy of this. In a single
• 55:42
  afternoon, I watch this guy lose more
• 55:44
  money than I make in a year. And at the
• 55:46
  end of each video where he loses $2,000,
• 55:49
  he looks at the camera with this pretend
• 55:51
  bewildered face on. He goes, "Well," and
• 55:55
  then the video awkwardly cuts. It's not
• 55:58
  a fantasy of gambling thousands of
• 56:00
  dollars. It's a fantasy where I can lose
• 56:02
  thousands and not be bothered. A fantasy
• 56:05
  where I have thousands at all sounds
• 56:07
  pretty good. But to be able to have
• 56:09
  enough of a piece of the world where I
• 56:11
  am not worried about survival would be
• 56:13
  more than enough for me. Watching these
• 56:15
  guys gamble more and more, playing and
• 56:18
  making increasingly stupid gambling
• 56:20
  choices as the months go on, as their
• 56:22
  follower count grows, is like looking at
• 56:25
  another species entirely. We are living
• 56:28
  such different lives, but it's not the
• 56:30
  same fascination that people have with
• 56:32
  celebrities who live it up in the most
• 56:34
  gorgeous mansions or drive expensive
• 56:36
  cars. No, my fantasy is of dripless men
• 56:39
  in the Elcortez.
• 56:41
  There's nothing glamorous about the
• 56:43
  world of Tik Tok gambling. It is filthy
• 56:45
  in the way that touching casino chips
• 56:47
  is. It makes me feel like I need to take
• 56:49
  a shower. But damn, do I want to watch
• 56:52
  more. There is something sinister here
• 56:54
  that I think is important to address.
• 56:56
  Gambling addictions have been
• 56:57
  exacerbated over the last 5 years or so
• 57:00
  with the legalization of sports betting
• 57:02
  apps, but also from content from the
• 57:04
  likes of John Sarasani. Mhm.
• 57:06
  >> I'm not saying that people can't make
• 57:07
  their own choices and that these Tik Tok
• 57:09
  gamblers are forcing anyone to play, but
• 57:12
  from my position, I am watching these
• 57:14
  people gamble tens of thousands of
• 57:15
  dollars in 60-second videos, and I say
• 57:18
  to myself, that looks pretty good.
• 57:21
  I don't have a gambling addiction, but I
• 57:23
  am addicted to the fantasy of having
• 57:25
  enough money that I could have one.
• 57:28
  addicted to the fantasy of having a
• 57:30
  full-time job where you do basically
• 57:32
  nothing other than exist without the
• 57:33
  fear of losing two grand.
• 57:36
  I'm a believer that everyone should buy
• 57:38
  Powerball tickets when the pot gets big
• 57:41
  and then go sit on the porch outside in
• 57:43
  silence. You will spend $5 for the most
• 57:46
  incredible fantasy of your life.
• 57:48
  Thinking about all the good you could do
• 57:50
  for yourself and other people if you
• 57:52
  were magically gifted $2 billion
• 57:55
  of all the problems that would wash away
• 57:57
  if you had it.
• 57:59
  You won't win the money. I certainly
• 58:01
  haven't. And maybe you don't want to win
• 58:03
  the money. I think it's incredibly
• 58:04
  likely that that much money is actually
• 58:06
  a curse. But I think that's part of the
• 58:09
  fun of fantasy. You ignore the cigarette
• 58:12
  smoke and the the mystery stick that's
• 58:14
  on the chips and the realities of sudden
• 58:16
  extreme wealth and instead get to
• 58:20
  imagine a life where everything is fine.
• 58:23
  A life where you're down two grand and
• 58:26
  feeling okay.
• 58:28
  Thank you. Oh my god. Delightful. Okay.
• 58:31
  So many existential truths in there. I
• 58:34
  think that so first off, okay, top level
• 58:36
  reaction. I think there is a there is a
• 58:38
  degree to which like my my heart breaks
• 58:41
  as to how relatable this position is of
• 58:45
  dreaming of a life in which you have a
• 58:49
  safety net in which you can exist
• 58:52
  without the fear of everything
• 58:55
  crumbling.
• 58:56
  >> Yes. And that is a life that should be
• 59:01
  um a reality for everyone in the world
• 59:05
  and we have the means to do that. And it
• 59:08
  is a crime and an injustice that we
• 59:10
  don't. Um yeah, that like breaks my
• 59:12
  heart because I think
• 59:14
  >> you know
• 59:14
  >> there's more of us than there are of
• 59:16
  them.
• 59:17
  >> And you know I I don't remember what the
• 59:19
  percentage is but it's it's like in the
• 59:21
  80 90% of people who don't have like
• 59:23
  $500 of emergency money.
• 59:25
  >> Yeah. And that is like
• 59:29
  to not to not to
• 59:32
  uh
• 59:34
  demean your position, but to to create a
• 59:38
  society in which its citizens are
• 59:41
  wistfully almost lusting after the
• 59:44
  lifestyle of the Tik Tok betting content
• 59:47
  creator is a is is a huge societal
• 59:51
  failure on our part.
• 59:52
  >> But no, that's that's the thing that I
• 59:53
  like as I was like writing this. You
• 59:54
  know what it was? It was when I was able
• 59:56
  to write down the names of the guys and
• 59:58
  one of them is a woman that I watch um
• 1:00:01
  >> without kind of having to look it up and
• 1:00:03
  I was like embarrassed that I knew that
• 1:00:05
  >> because but but I was like then thinking
• 1:00:06
  about like well what is the fantasy cuz
• 1:00:08
  they're not luxurious. The videos aren't
• 1:00:10
  luxurious. They're not like showing off
• 1:00:11
  their wealth. Again, it's like I said,
• 1:00:13
  they're like dripless. It's like guys in
• 1:00:14
  like graphic t-shirts and cargo shorts
• 1:00:16
  in in casinos that I've been to that
• 1:00:18
  suck. And it's like but like why then?
• 1:00:20
  What is the fantasy? And it's like, oh,
• 1:00:22
  no, no, no. It's not even the it's not
• 1:00:24
  the fantasy of having money and using
• 1:00:25
  money in a way that allow like for all
• 1:00:28
  of the things that it can get you,
• 1:00:29
  right? It's the fantasy of of being so
• 1:00:33
  like fine that you can just lose that
• 1:00:35
  money and go like that's no big deal.
• 1:00:37
  That's what the fantasy is, right? To to
• 1:00:38
  what you said, the safety net.
• 1:00:41
  >> Oh my god, that's Yeah, that's tough.
• 1:00:43
  That one like strikes a chord for me
• 1:00:45
  because that I think it's just so it's
• 1:00:47
  so like
• 1:00:48
  >> just I know how possible it is.
• 1:00:50
  >> Yeah. Right.
• 1:00:51
  >> And and I know how many people just like
• 1:00:53
  don't have that. And I truly believe
• 1:00:55
  that if everyone did have that, we would
• 1:00:58
  uh as a society Yeah. Okay. Okay. Here's
• 1:01:01
  like a funny thing to think about. We um
• 1:01:04
  import athletes in this country all of
• 1:01:07
  the time.
• 1:01:07
  >> Yeah.
• 1:01:07
  >> All of the time. We do these like global
• 1:01:11
  searches for people who can uh perform
• 1:01:15
  on, you know, the our our in in like the
• 1:01:19
  NBA and in the NFL and in all of these
• 1:01:21
  things because of how much money these
• 1:01:23
  people can maybe bring in and that's
• 1:01:24
  what's important to us. And I think all
• 1:01:27
  the time about like if somebody didn't
• 1:01:30
  have if if everybody didn't have to
• 1:01:32
  worry about like their immediate
• 1:01:34
  circumstances and needs like the kinds
• 1:01:37
  of people that that would create because
• 1:01:38
  we already we already take these people
• 1:01:41
  from countries all over the world and we
• 1:01:43
  feed them right and we give them housing
• 1:01:45
  and we take away their worries and they
• 1:01:47
  blossom into worldclass athletes. Yeah.
• 1:01:51
  >> Could you imagine if we did this for a
• 1:01:53
  scientist?
• 1:01:55
  you or even just like I think about like
• 1:01:56
  if all of my needs were being met, the
• 1:01:59
  person I would be, the friend I would be
• 1:02:00
  to people,
• 1:02:01
  >> you know what I mean? Because because
• 1:02:02
  then it's not like wake up every day and
• 1:02:04
  like panic panic panic like like figure
• 1:02:06
  it out, fight, watch a bunch of gambling
• 1:02:07
  TikTok videos, go to bed, wake up. Do
• 1:02:09
  you know what I mean? Like like it's
• 1:02:10
  this thing about like
• 1:02:12
  >> uh uh if those needs were being met, I
• 1:02:14
  think this fantasy disappears.
• 1:02:16
  >> Well, yes. And it's it's it's not to you
• 1:02:18
  know
• 1:02:20
  psychoanalyze too much but there's also
• 1:02:22
  there's also a degree to which our
• 1:02:23
  society has created a person who is in
• 1:02:25
  need of this um this this content that
• 1:02:28
  goes down like medicine and that stops
• 1:02:32
  people from
• 1:02:34
  living lives that I think could maybe be
• 1:02:37
  more exploratory or fulfilling because
• 1:02:39
  you're just so focused on trying to get
• 1:02:41
  by.
• 1:02:42
  >> Yes. And it's like the the the
• 1:02:46
  the art almost of experiencing life and
• 1:02:49
  enjoying it and finding something
• 1:02:51
  fulfilling is just not even secondary,
• 1:02:54
  it's tertiary for so many people because
• 1:02:57
  the main focus, the overwhelming focus
• 1:02:59
  is survival.
• 1:03:00
  >> Yes.
• 1:03:02
  >> Oh god, man. It's like
• 1:03:07
  >> I don't know. You ever you ever read uh
• 1:03:10
  A Room of One's Own? No. That's a stupid
• 1:03:12
  I'm sorry. I'm sorry for even asking
• 1:03:13
  that. That was rude. That was rude of
• 1:03:14
  me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That that that
• 1:03:17
  was that I'm sorry. That was
• 1:03:19
  >> Maybe maybe that's on the critical era
• 1:03:20
  book club.
• 1:03:21
  >> Oh, Jesus Christ. I can't depressing.
• 1:03:23
  >> I forgot where I was. I forgot. It's
• 1:03:25
  It's just there's like a um
• 1:03:29
  you know, create the there's this idea,
• 1:03:32
  right? That's a Did you just look it up?
• 1:03:34
  It's for Okay. Okay. Good. there the a
• 1:03:37
  kind of like big idea there is that um
• 1:03:40
  creative freedom requires material
• 1:03:44
  security
• 1:03:45
  >> and yes and I think she writes about
• 1:03:48
  having this like $500 or I guess it
• 1:03:51
  would be pounds but like whatever it is
• 1:03:53
  it's um this like I have this room that
• 1:03:57
  I live in and it's like500 for the year
• 1:04:01
  and it's the minimum condition for her
• 1:04:04
  for this life that is not governed by
• 1:04:07
  fear and what's what's radical and and I
• 1:04:10
  I really like that reading that because
• 1:04:12
  I think it shows that what's radical is
• 1:04:14
  um how small the ask actually is. How
• 1:04:17
  how little people really need for for
• 1:04:20
  that sense of security and comfort to to
• 1:04:22
  be, you know, greater than their
• 1:04:24
  circumstances. That's that's all they
• 1:04:26
  need.
• 1:04:26
  >> Yes.
• 1:04:29
  >> And imagine if I was with hanging out
• 1:04:30
  with Vegas Matt.
• 1:04:33
  >> Imagine.
• 1:04:34
  >> Imagine, right? Cuz cuz I think also
• 1:04:36
  what I I wanted to hit on too is like
• 1:04:37
  this idea of like no no there is like
• 1:04:39
  something sinister going on with with
• 1:04:41
  like gambling content and like and like
• 1:04:43
  the perpetuation of of these like uh of
• 1:04:46
  like gambling addiction and stuff like
• 1:04:48
  that which is very real and and I think
• 1:04:50
  a [ __ ] enormous problem especially in
• 1:04:53
  this country that um I think we are uh
• 1:04:56
  largely ignoring because of the money
• 1:04:58
  that it generates.
• 1:04:59
  >> Um
• 1:05:00
  >> but uh yeah I don't know. Thank you for
• 1:05:03
  letting me show this. I I thought this
• 1:05:04
  was uh something that that like like I
• 1:05:06
  said, I've just been reflecting a lot on
• 1:05:07
  like the content I've been consuming and
• 1:05:10
  going like, hey, why am I watching this?
• 1:05:14
  Like like why? I have such a when you
• 1:05:17
  introduced this, I I was enthusiastic
• 1:05:18
  about it because I I kind of have a
• 1:05:20
  passion for um the subtle ways in which
• 1:05:25
  the content that we consume really has
• 1:05:28
  like a strong effect on people, like far
• 1:05:31
  stronger than people realize. And
• 1:05:32
  >> Oh, yeah. you know, especially people
• 1:05:34
  that are around my age, I think you grow
• 1:05:36
  up and the idea that commercials
• 1:05:38
  influence you or your perspective is
• 1:05:40
  like a comical notion. Like you think
• 1:05:42
  like, oh yeah, because I saw that
• 1:05:44
  Coca-Cola commercial, I'm going to go
• 1:05:45
  buy a Coca-Cola, but it's like at the
• 1:05:48
  same time, what has made Coca-Cola the
• 1:05:51
  default, you know, soda pop brand in my
• 1:05:53
  brain? Like, I don't know. That's a
• 1:05:54
  that's a funny thing to think about,
• 1:05:55
  right?
• 1:05:55
  >> No, 100%. Yeah.
• 1:05:56
  >> Yeah. But then it's like
• 1:05:59
  maybe something not as oblique as
• 1:06:01
  advertising, but what has the what what
• 1:06:04
  has the content you watch shaped you
• 1:06:06
  into assuming is reality that actually
• 1:06:09
  isn't? And this is why I love the
• 1:06:12
  expression media diet because it's just
• 1:06:15
  like the food you put into your body and
• 1:06:16
  it really affects you. And it's like the
• 1:06:18
  the brain is like a it's it's like a
• 1:06:20
  muscle that you need to work and you
• 1:06:22
  need to practice. There's a there's a
• 1:06:24
  great piece in the cut recently that um
• 1:06:26
  one of my favorite essaist uh PE Mositz
• 1:06:28
  wrote about and it's this idea of
• 1:06:30
  friction maxing. Have you come across
• 1:06:32
  this?
• 1:06:33
  >> No, but I but I mean I I think I can
• 1:06:35
  maybe put it together. Go on.
• 1:06:36
  >> So there is this um conceit that is
• 1:06:40
  floating around in our culture right now
• 1:06:42
  that is all about like a good life is
• 1:06:44
  one that removes as much friction as
• 1:06:46
  possible. And it talks about how like
• 1:06:48
  using chat GPT to look stuff up and what
• 1:06:52
  is lost when you lose friction in that
• 1:06:54
  way. Yeah. So the piece and and the
• 1:06:56
  piece I really liked about P Mosquitz is
• 1:06:58
  about like the reintroduction of
• 1:07:00
  friction in your life for the sake of
• 1:07:02
  the kind of person it builds you into.
• 1:07:04
  >> Yes.
• 1:07:05
  >> And it's like it's so obvious and it's
• 1:07:08
  so important and um I don't know. It's
• 1:07:10
  it's it's one of these things where it's
• 1:07:12
  like I I I worry sometimes that our
• 1:07:15
  content is becoming
• 1:07:17
  more and more frictionless. Yes. And I I
• 1:07:20
  definitely see that in TV and movies
• 1:07:22
  occasionally and I I feel I'm seeing it
• 1:07:25
  in like online content as well.
• 1:07:28
  >> Not to do something that we've literally
• 1:07:29
  never done before, but to bring it back
• 1:07:31
  to the topic of this very episode in
• 1:07:33
  >> Oh my god. Please excuse me. Is that
• 1:07:36
  idea though of let people enjoy things.
• 1:07:38
  It should be frictionless to enjoy to to
• 1:07:39
  play a video game. You shouldn't have
• 1:07:40
  thoughts other than delight and
• 1:07:43
  enjoyment. Like,
• 1:07:44
  >> and I think that's bad. Not not that
• 1:07:46
  enjoying stuff is bad. Enjoy things, of
• 1:07:48
  course. Yes, please. Um I enjoy video
• 1:07:49
  games. That's why I play them. That's
• 1:07:50
  why I write about them. That's why I do
• 1:07:51
  do all of this. But it's it's like um
• 1:07:53
  no, the friction of of discussion, the
• 1:07:56
  friction of understanding, that's good
• 1:07:58
  and that's important because what you
• 1:08:00
  just said like like oh no, that friction
• 1:08:02
  is like part of the things that make you
• 1:08:03
  who you are. I used to work at a high
• 1:08:04
  school and um not to be like a well kids
• 1:08:08
  these days type of person but there was
• 1:08:10
  a uh sort of shift in the way that
• 1:08:12
  parents treated their kids and I'm not
• 1:08:14
  saying this is uh bad but I am saying
• 1:08:16
  there was a lot of like we would ask the
• 1:08:18
  kids to do stuff and then they wouldn't
• 1:08:20
  do them and then it would be like okay
• 1:08:22
  well we can't I was a speech and debate
• 1:08:24
  coach and so I was like well we can't
• 1:08:26
  work on the speech and make the speech
• 1:08:27
  good make you good at speech if you
• 1:08:28
  didn't do the work to write the speech
• 1:08:29
  and it's like uh there was we would sort
• 1:08:33
  of lean on parents and say like, "Hey,
• 1:08:34
  can you help prioritize this for them
• 1:08:35
  and help them understand that this is
• 1:08:36
  something they should be doing?" And
• 1:08:37
  there was a lot of like, "Well, no. Um,
• 1:08:40
  it's actually really hard for them, so
• 1:08:41
  they're not going to do it." And it's
• 1:08:42
  like, "Okay, well, that's fine. Uh, but
• 1:08:44
  how do we get better at stuff?" By doing
• 1:08:46
  things that are hard. Or if it's if it's
• 1:08:48
  too hard for them, and I'm not trying to
• 1:08:49
  be shitty, but I'm like, "Then maybe
• 1:08:50
  this isn't the activity for them." You
• 1:08:51
  know, if this if this is something
• 1:08:52
  they're not getting anything out of. Um,
• 1:08:55
  but what you're saying, it's this idea
• 1:08:57
  though of like, okay, well, if this kid
• 1:08:58
  is trying to have a frictionless
• 1:09:00
  experience with speech and trying to
• 1:09:01
  write a speech, well then they're not
• 1:09:03
  going to learn how to write a speech
• 1:09:04
  because they're not going to have
• 1:09:05
  failed. They're not going to have, you
• 1:09:06
  know, run into the the troubles that
• 1:09:08
  come with trying to make something and
• 1:09:09
  create something.
• 1:09:10
  >> I think this is so in conversation with
• 1:09:12
  the piece that you shared today. This is
• 1:09:13
  uh this is just from the PE Moscowitz
• 1:09:15
  piece about friction mixing.
• 1:09:17
  >> Um, addiction is not random. It's
• 1:09:19
  usually many things. a cry for help, a
• 1:09:21
  way to find the love you never had in
• 1:09:22
  chemical form, a sign that you are
• 1:09:24
  missing community and feeling dislocated
• 1:09:25
  and depressed and dissatisfied. I think
• 1:09:28
  this is true whether our addictions are
• 1:09:29
  to drugs or our phones. And so I think
• 1:09:31
  an important step in challenging our
• 1:09:33
  dependence on technologies is to figure
• 1:09:35
  out why exactly we have become so
• 1:09:37
  dependent on them. Is your constant
• 1:09:39
  scrolling on social media a sign that
• 1:09:41
  you are lonely and need friends? Is your
• 1:09:44
  reliance on discourse a sign that you
• 1:09:47
  are intellectually understimulated?
• 1:09:49
  a insane question to ask on this
• 1:09:52
  podcast.
• 1:09:52
  >> I'm the critical error podcast. No, the
• 1:09:54
  answer answer is no. What? No. No.
• 1:09:55
  >> Right. And then personally, I've
• 1:09:57
  realized I reach for my phone to not
• 1:09:59
  just soothe anxiety, but to keep me from
• 1:10:02
  realizing that I have reason to be
• 1:10:04
  anxious in the first place.
• 1:10:06
  >> OH, BROTHER. Oh my
• 1:10:12
  >> friction maxing. It's good.
• 1:10:14
  >> It's good.
• 1:10:15
  >> Oh my god.
• 1:10:15
  >> Where is that? Sorry. Friction maxing.
• 1:10:17
  Where is That is a That is a That is a
• 1:10:19
  uh Substack blog. Uh
• 1:10:21
  >> you mentioned this once, didn't you?
• 1:10:22
  >> I Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:10:24
  >> You tweeted about this. Yes.
• 1:10:25
  >> I Yeah. I I really I like this blog a
• 1:10:27
  lot. And it's one of those things that
• 1:10:29
  um it's it's when people ask me, they're
• 1:10:31
  like, "Jake, what do you read that like
• 1:10:33
  informs your perspective and that like
• 1:10:35
  shapes the way that you consume stuff?"
• 1:10:37
  It's like the number one thing I always
• 1:10:39
  give them is I'm like, "Dog, I think
• 1:10:41
  it's like $3 a month or something to
• 1:10:44
  subscribe to this um blog. It's mental
• 1:10:48
  health health spelled h e l and it's
• 1:10:52
  mental health.xyz.
• 1:10:54
  That is the that is the link." And um
• 1:10:58
  this blog, every single piece that
• 1:11:00
  Moscowitz writes, I'm just like,
• 1:11:03
  >> well, time to time to read this five
• 1:11:06
  times and let it wash over me. Um truly
• 1:11:09
  like one of the most incisive essayists
• 1:11:11
  of our time. Um an incredible resource.
• 1:11:14
  Just uh when I when I talk about reading
• 1:11:16
  to like make you a more well-rounded
• 1:11:18
  person, this is kind of what I'm talking
• 1:11:20
  about.
• 1:11:20
  >> Wow.
• 1:11:21
  >> Yeah.
• 1:11:21
  >> Wow.
• 1:11:22
  >> Yeah.
• 1:11:23
  I'm going to try I'm actually going to
• 1:11:24
  check this out because there's a bunch
• 1:11:25
  of stuff on here. I'm like just
• 1:11:26
  scrolling through I'm like, "Oh, this is
• 1:11:27
  actually kind of sick."
• 1:11:28
  >> I enjoy it so much that I went on a
• 1:11:31
  spree last week and bought year-long
• 1:11:34
  subscriptions to some of my friends and
• 1:11:37
  just was like, I don't support this
• 1:11:39
  enough by like the $3 a month that I
• 1:11:41
  give this blog is like not enough for
• 1:11:43
  the value I'm getting out of it. So, I
• 1:11:45
  just I just was like, here's here's like
• 1:11:47
  a year on the blog is like 60 bucks. I
• 1:11:49
  was like, okay, that's great.
• 1:11:50
  >> Yeah, it's actually not bad at all. No,
• 1:11:52
  I was like, so yeah. So,
• 1:11:54
  >> yeah.
• 1:11:54
  >> All right.
• 1:11:55
  >> Well, hey, thanks for being here. Um,
• 1:11:57
  patreon.com/criticalclair. If you're
• 1:11:59
  interested in more of us, subscribe to
• 1:12:00
  the YouTube channel. We love you so
• 1:12:01
  much. Bye.
• 1:12:03
  >> Not too late to get in on the book club.