Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Steven B & Nathan Bottomley about their choice of The Haunting of Villa Diodati

Transcript

Talks to Steven B & Nathan Bottomley about their choice of The Haunting of Villa Diodati · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to hamster with a
• 0:42
  blunt. Penknife with your hose to Cho
• 0:44
  Ford and myself, Stephen be from you-know-who and and may I'm
• 0:51
  Nathan bottomley from flight for entirety.
• 0:53
  Ha ha ha. Well, you can wait.
• 0:55
  Oh, hello? Well, and I'm title Star Trek
• 0:59
  project here everywhere. And yeah, let's say yes, I will
• 1:03
  cost you mad. This is a very special episode
• 1:08
  of House of a blunt penknife. Why is that favorite?
• 1:10
  But it's a bit different. Usually, I'm looking at you on
• 1:12
  the other side of the screen. That's right, right?
• 1:15
  Instead, you're in my bedroom right now, well, yeah, the
• 1:17
  heating will ya. People are gonna talk show
• 1:25
  sitting side-by-side because I've come to see you, and we're
• 1:30
  talking Doctor Who face to face for the first time, it's
• 1:33
  amazing, it's been wonderful week for end in the week.
• 1:35
  That's past, we've visited cast revolver.
• 1:38
  We've been into Two locations for the war games.
• 1:42
  The curse of fenric, the Leisure Hive.
• 1:45
  It's all Androids of Tara. Of course, how could I possibly
• 1:54
  to fish and I drew some particularly terrible red
• 1:57
  turrets on leads cars? Yeah, to make it look like the
• 2:01
  glass shop but also, that is also a very special episode
• 2:07
  because Nathan you've not been around for a while.
• 2:09
  All of, you know, I haven't been on it for a little bit.
• 2:14
  I can't remember what the last one you actually released was
• 2:16
  and I have no idea what the last one we recorded together was the
• 2:21
  Rebus? What was it, was that Delta.
• 2:23
  Oh, that was so much fun. I hope that I've managed to
• 2:28
  rehabilitate and the graph indicate as one of the best
• 2:32
  villains in the show's history, a bit.
• 2:35
  Where the graph indicate blows himself up.
• 2:38
  He was choking with Both laugh. So good.
• 2:45
  What an asshole, but we're gonna see a bit more of you
• 2:52
  sweetheart. We're going to record bad wolf,
• 2:53
  and parting of the ways. Yeah, yeah, we really have to do
• 2:57
  that. We, we've been recording and
• 2:59
  releasing Untitled Star Trek project every week without fail
• 3:04
  for like 37 weeks now. And so all of our Joint
• 3:09
  podcasting has gone towards Star Trek, which is, you know, a
• 3:14
  vastly superior program today, but absolutely not true.
• 3:20
  Well, maybe the nice, but, but bad wolf, and parting of the
• 3:24
  ways is absolutely one of my very, very favorite.
• 3:28
  Kind of stories ever. It's so terrific and so
• 3:32
  confident and so funny and so heartbreaking, and I'm really
• 3:37
  looking forward to doing it before.
• 3:39
  We talked about the episode in question today, which is the
• 3:43
  haunting of Villa, Di adult, a gentleman.
• 3:47
  Just a quick sort of one works while maybe one sentence summary
• 3:52
  of the Christian era from both of you.
• 3:54
  Because I'm sure this is going to be, you know, flowering with
• 3:58
  praise I would say that it ranges from boring to
• 4:06
  irritatingly lacking in basic competence and you were the one
• 4:13
  came on lording. Alright.
• 4:14
  Is in the UK, I think that's really fun.
• 4:18
  I think that is properly fun. But again, we said at the time,
• 4:21
  the doctor doesn't do anything to resolve the situation and it
• 4:25
  seems to have no sort of moral standpoint and the big I think
• 4:30
  he's we've got our first female doctor and not much thought has
• 4:33
  gone into what the character should be like, and she doesn't
• 4:36
  really defeat the villains. She doesn't, you know, seem to
• 4:41
  have a consistent moral Viewpoint and there's always
• 4:44
  something baffling. I think here in Philadelphia
• 4:46
  Darcy, which has to be among the best of the era.
• 4:49
  If not the best of year, she's got some great man in history
• 4:55
  thing happening which I just find a little bit worrying.
• 4:59
  So, So, I don't know. It's for other people to enjoy.
• 5:04
  That's very diplomatic of you will keep it up, maybe not in a
• 5:09
  sentence, but in a summative thought I think it has enormous
• 5:15
  potential and wastes that potential.
• 5:17
  The first female doctor a wonderfully, varied cast that
• 5:23
  really underlines the importance, that representation
• 5:25
  is reality, but all of these things ultimately amount to a
• 5:28
  superficial Scratching of the surface, rather than delving
• 5:32
  into perhaps the discourses and politics that should sit
• 5:35
  underneath that. That are in fact, largely absent
• 5:37
  from this era for me. So I kind of see it in the same
• 5:40
  way that I see it. Perhaps, as Davison are aware,
• 5:43
  there is so much that could have gone, right?
• 5:46
  That ultimately, if it didn't go wrong, probably didn't quite go
• 5:51
  as well as it should have. That's how I would sum it up.
• 5:54
  That seems very fair. I don't even need faithful being
• 5:58
  diplomatic. It's that thing where Doctor Who
• 6:02
  is brought back in 2005 by someone who is an angry left,
• 6:06
  you know who called Nadine door, he's a fuckwit on television and
• 6:10
  stuff, you know, someone who's a real proper leftist and Moffat
• 6:15
  himself, who seems to be less political still puts out some
• 6:20
  very angry staff and the Beast below.
• 6:22
  The first we were talking about loud.
• 6:24
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really properly political, and really
• 6:28
  interesting shit. Interested in politics at all.
• 6:32
  So that just means he ends up being kind of wet and Centrist
• 6:37
  and has no proper position on anything.
• 6:41
  And that's one of the problems with the area is that story
• 6:44
  after Story isn't about anything, and I think that's a
• 6:50
  problem. Oh, man.
• 6:51
  It may even be a problem with this episode, I think.
• 6:55
  But there's no coherent view point being present.
• 6:59
  I mean, for my own part I like this era far more than either of
• 7:05
  you two. There's a lot of I find to enjoy
• 7:09
  it but I usually in spite of the writing rather than because of
• 7:13
  it and if there's like the audacity, when it hits and roads
• 7:15
  are in Punjab and the other highlights, the era marvelous by
• 7:20
  love the chemistry of the leas. I think Jodie Whittaker is a
• 7:22
  ball of sunshine. I mean, the production values
• 7:25
  are astonishing. They absolutely can pull off,
• 7:28
  like, set pieces. Is I think the entertainment
• 7:31
  levels are usually fairly high and those things that you both
• 7:37
  mention aren't as much of an issue for me, then, maybe I'm
• 7:40
  not thinking on your level. I don't know.
• 7:43
  No, I just think it's about taste and preference and I
• 7:45
  think, you know, you mentioned earlier.
• 7:46
  Yeah, the way that it looks, it looks gorgeous.
• 7:49
  And I know that people engage with Doctor Who are entirely
• 7:53
  televisual Jeff goggles does. Yeah.
• 7:55
  And I can absolutely understand why this would be a favor Gira
• 7:59
  ivory. Completely.
• 8:00
  So, yeah. If you're coming to this new, if
• 8:02
  this is your first doctor, I can absolutely understand that if
• 8:05
  it's your, you know, latest Doctor out of it, all of them, I
• 8:08
  can understand why you would love it on those levels for
• 8:11
  myself, I do read it in a different way, that's all and
• 8:14
  that is largely, as a result of my upbringing, which is Target
• 8:18
  novelizations, as my primary takes of Doctor Who and, and
• 8:22
  Malcolm Hulk Target novelizations for as much as
• 8:25
  amongst my favorite. And for that reason, I just sort
• 8:28
  of sort of see this here as a Departure from.
• 8:30
  Did you read the which find us I've known as I actually really,
• 8:39
  really good start. Okay, well then very quickly
• 8:41
  before you go in just to just to turn this around a little bit
• 8:43
  because it's genuinely we accentuate, the positive and
• 8:46
  this podcast, usually Nathan your top, two episodes of the
• 8:52
  Whitaker era and Stephen, Nathan, first off you go, I
• 8:57
  think evil of the Daleks is fast solidly entertaining with some
• 9:04
  really fun performances and it's light and funny, it's a little
• 9:09
  bit like a chip novel series, seven AO episode.
• 9:12
  It's really fun. It's still got weirdness, is
• 9:16
  didn't sort of odd things. Don't make any sense, but it's
• 9:20
  probably entertaining. I think up arachnids is these
• 9:24
  terribly fun as well? Well, I am a little bit more on
• 9:29
  the fence about Rosa, which I think, is has political problems
• 9:35
  and maybe Punjab does as well, but less.
• 9:38
  So it is pretty pretty good and I think this one is definitely
• 9:42
  up there, too. Steven look, if I had to pick
• 9:45
  two it's the to Maxine audition scripts but I am a big fan as a
• 9:50
  Nathan. I have spoken about this off mic
• 9:52
  many times about of Rosa. I just think it's an incredible.
• 9:56
  Mark and I absolutely understand your repair is about that, but I
• 9:59
  think that moment on Jody's face as it's true breaks and her
• 10:05
  powerlessness to do anything. He's probably actually it's
• 10:10
  wonderful moment. So yeah, yeah.
• 10:13
  Wait 3. It's like, she discovers him,
• 10:17
  Graham as well, they both discovered that as white people,
• 10:20
  they have no choice but to be completely, this has oppression.
• 10:25
  Now, I think the problem is that just all too often Jody can't do
• 10:30
  anything. And that becomes, yeah, like a
• 10:33
  field of science. Seems to rain where Robertson
• 10:36
  literally departs, the story walking in front of her, son
• 10:40
  away, yet after behaving a polling, well, just to be
• 10:45
  contrary. I'll throw in the Battle of
• 10:47
  France, gorovkin on the Timeless children.
• 10:54
  I think putting job. Mmm is one of my favorites and I
• 11:00
  really love warmth on time. Hmm.
• 11:03
  Well, I think it's the best of flux, the sure it's a genius
• 11:07
  idea. Yeah, is all wrapped up in a
• 11:10
  really lazy explosion. Let's skip over that We
• 11:17
  entertaining. And I thought at that point, the
• 11:19
  flux was just flying high. And like with this is gonna be
• 11:22
  amazing. I've got to live anguishes in
• 11:24
  the end and back to reality. I think episode 3 is where I
• 11:29
  came back to reality. It's not very good.
• 11:33
  But then idea, you know, where we're finding the Chromebook
• 11:36
  Crimean War, but no one's heard of the Russians and it's the
• 11:38
  sontaran Empire, I think it's so great.
• 11:42
  That such a brilliant idea. That's yeah, I think it's Be
• 11:45
  good. Wow, off to this sorry clay,
• 11:48
  quick departure into the Whitaker era as a whole.
• 11:51
  Shall we? Watch The Haunting of the Lydia
• 11:53
  toffee, but I think they should. Okay.
• 11:57
  Well, then if somebody would care to counters in West MI5, I
• 12:02
  think that's the motto. No.
• 12:03
  Okay, it's a normally my job is Five, four, three, two, one, and
• 12:17
  we're off, we're off Lake Geneva.
• 12:21
  June 18 16. So I love the fact that we've
• 12:25
  gone to this point in history as the setting for this is this
• 12:29
  story, I think it's very Doctor Who in the sense that this is
• 12:33
  night, that effectively science fiction / horror as a genre in
• 12:36
  the modern sense. Gets defined.
• 12:40
  We hear about this Later on, but for Doctor Who to sort of go
• 12:43
  back to a point in time where it's as a program, as a concept,
• 12:47
  as a text is effectively can be traced back to, I think.
• 12:51
  Is it's a lovely little touch? So, yes, I think it's great.
• 12:57
  I think it does. It does commit the sin that time
• 13:01
  lash commits before it, which he's actually making a creative
• 13:08
  figure in The History of Science Fiction get their inspiration
• 13:12
  from a shit Doctor Who monsters It's a Cyberman.
• 13:22
  Come on so you know and if it wasn't a woman riding it I would
• 13:29
  be Supercross about it because it would be you know taking a
• 13:33
  woman's creativity and saying that actually it was kid
• 13:37
  Peddlers idea or whatever. So so this is yeah this is one
• 13:45
  of the very few times where a woman is overwriting.
• 13:50
  And directing Doctor Who I think of many other.
• 13:53
  I know Enlightenment, one of my absolute favorites.
• 13:56
  Another. Yeah, it's my thing.
• 14:01
  Is anyone? There are no, I think can you
• 14:02
  hear me, was also okay written and directed by a woman and I
• 14:07
  asked you earlier, see this raven is also another face.
• 14:10
  Raven is yes. Yes, yeah, yeah, tell you what.
• 14:16
  That is one thing that to bill has done and they desperately
• 14:20
  need Doing which was increasing, you know, increasing diversity
• 14:25
  among the directing and writing in the show and Moffat sort of
• 14:32
  was gesturing towards it and wanted it to happen.
• 14:35
  But it was the usual thing where you just say no one's putting
• 14:39
  themselves forward and that's not a good enough.
• 14:41
  Reason you have to do something positive to get it to happen and
• 14:45
  that's what general is done. Not on the one hand, say that
• 14:48
  he's doing a wonderful thing. Only creative team, incredibly
• 14:52
  diverse. And then, on the other hand
• 14:53
  saying, this is a truly terrible era, that's not for you.
• 14:57
  Well, she believes is not a very good Rider.
• 15:00
  I think is the problem and that was Apparent from his stuff
• 15:05
  during the day bees at Moffett here.
• 15:08
  I think that he doesn't see that's such a cheesy joke.
• 15:11
  We begin to be conquered, but it is pretty funny.
• 15:15
  It is pretty funny and now he's vicious oily.
• 15:18
  Puddle title sequence But you know what?
• 15:22
  I love the key drop. I love the key drop in the.
• 15:25
  Yeah, I love the key drop to. Yeah, I do too.
• 15:28
  Yeah, in fact, one of the things that I really noticed is that
• 15:32
  saguna, canola's approach to the music, really works very well
• 15:36
  here because there's the doctors theme and stuff and important
• 15:41
  moments. But also there's a it's really
• 15:43
  glow really effective for you for the Cybermen as well.
• 15:46
  Sort of industrial theme uses very yeah.
• 15:50
  But he has a real kind of sense of creating atmosphere, which I
• 15:54
  think is, is really great. I love this line about how she
• 15:59
  needs to blow dry. The psychic paper.
• 16:04
  Does it got wet? I think she let them dress up in
• 16:08
  Period costumes, you know? Yeah, this is her best.
• 16:15
  Yeah. Well like the doctor is kind of
• 16:17
  unaffected by being the past which I kind of think is okay,
• 16:21
  that's a good approach, but it's a bit less fun than putting Bill
• 16:25
  Hartnell in a big plumed thing Tara.
• 17:07
  Of in the 80s. This is pastic lining.
• 17:13
  Let's think about the The Pride and Prejudice thing from the
• 17:17
  90s, which is glorious. Absolutely brilliant and setting
• 17:22
  the same era and everything's just lit to buggery.
• 17:24
  You know, what can we light on everything for this scene?
• 17:29
  Which shows absolutely brilliantly how to do,
• 17:33
  Exposition introduce characters. Let you know where is that and
• 17:38
  what everybody thinks of each other and it's not written by
• 17:41
  Chris chibnall Yeah, well, I think I think this is a really
• 17:45
  fun scene that tells you pretty much everything you need to know
• 17:48
  about these people. But let's also draw out the
• 17:51
  differences as to why this is so different from Chris, chibnall
• 17:54
  Exposition. And it's clear that you've got
• 17:58
  here, a really fun and funny scene, and it's quite short as
• 18:02
  well. And it comes at a point in the
• 18:04
  narrative, where, immediately after the cold open, the
• 18:06
  orientation. You have, What's called the
• 18:09
  exposition. And this is the way to do it.
• 18:11
  You get it out of the way. And from this point onwards, you
• 18:13
  don't need any info dumps necessarily.
• 18:16
  What you need to do is to find out what's happening as things
• 18:19
  are actually happening. So I think it's fantastic, it's
• 18:23
  so different from children, although where he will build up
• 18:26
  a head of steam, some wonderful amazing things will happen and
• 18:28
  then he'll just hit the handbrake and everything comes
• 18:31
  to a screeching halt for two or three minutes of exposition.
• 18:36
  And then you'd have to try and build up that momentum again and
• 18:39
  it takes forever to get our bats got like in built energy.
• 18:41
  That's absolutely. And this is how you do it.
• 18:44
  You're right. Joe, this is how you do
• 18:45
  Exposition as opposed to the sort of handbrake approach.
• 18:49
  Well in the very next story, in Ascension of the Cybermen, they
• 18:52
  all turn up at the location and then they like, what I've got
• 18:55
  this bit of equipment that does this and I think this would
• 19:00
  explain how it's kind of gone wrong and I'm like can I just
• 19:09
  say how much I love Fletcher in the Is and like Jody has said
• 19:15
  that we've turned up for an evening with the most brilliant
• 19:18
  people in the world or whatever. And Fletcher just things are all
• 19:22
  kind of hey credit card, so good.
• 19:39
  Yeah, in fact, the story kills. It's um to working-class
• 19:43
  characters and obviously and it's believed all of the Irish
• 19:46
  crack to live through that because they are real.
• 19:49
  Yeah. Well, I want to do.
• 19:52
  I want to pray for the High Heavens, the completely
• 19:55
  unexplained subplot of Graham and his two ghosts laughs.
• 19:59
  Yeah, they kind of explained in the front in the last scene as
• 20:03
  in, they were just ghost, but it's completely unrelated, but
• 20:06
  actually just shuffled into the pack of the rest of the weirdest
• 20:09
  that's going on. A doctor who gives you space
• 20:14
  reasons, but there's more than just space reasons for other
• 20:17
  things happening. These ghosts aren't necessarily
• 20:20
  explained using this space reasons, Nathan, and I love
• 20:24
  them. I love that so much.
• 20:27
  But this is, this is doing a haunted house story, and the
• 20:32
  episode that did that previous to.
• 20:33
  This is hide. Mmm.
• 20:36
  Certainly for. Yeah, but I think this kind of
• 20:40
  gets right. What I didn't think was Works at
• 20:42
  all well in high, which is they kind of it's very funny.
• 20:46
  And there's funny lines and, and there's a lot of energy in the
• 20:49
  performances but no was kind of taken a piss out of the genre.
• 20:53
  You know what I mean? Everyone's sort of committed to
• 20:54
  the fact that this is a horror story and they're behaving like
• 20:58
  in hide, you've got the doctor and Clara dancing around, the
• 21:01
  holes going. We're in a horror story of no
• 21:03
  amazing. Takes my, I think the, yeah, I
• 21:07
  mean hide doesn't work because there's a ghost story.
• 21:10
  It's not It has no villain and no, there's no real kind of
• 21:17
  problem. And that's a thing.
• 21:18
  Like a substitution at Moffett sometimes does psych turns out.
• 21:22
  There's no one who's a little behind this at all but I think
• 21:25
  it just wrecks it. Yeah.
• 21:27
  Yeah. It's glory between the two
• 21:29
  bizarre-looking Mutant people? Yes.
• 21:36
  Is this the first hint that you has got a thing for the doctor
• 21:38
  because she talks about I was wondering that too.
• 21:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:43
  So miss Claremont is talking about the thrill and mystery of
• 21:47
  dating Lord Byron and then you know Yaz says that must be a
• 21:53
  problem and then she turns and says you know what about this
• 21:57
  person that you know, or whatever and I think it probably
• 22:00
  is I think Just think it shines a light on how underdeveloped
• 22:05
  both years and Brian are and Graham in a sense, they're kind
• 22:09
  of surplus to requirements in this story of beer and it is a
• 22:13
  bit of a shame. I quite fun things to do and
• 22:16
  they're all paired off with different characters.
• 22:19
  Yeah. But yes basically gets this
• 22:21
  speech and that's about it it's and Ryan gets to do some goofing
• 22:26
  around which I think he does quite well and should have been
• 22:30
  permitted to do a little bit more.
• 22:33
  And then Graham like the fun of grime is that he uses weird
• 22:37
  language and that's about it, but none of them really are
• 22:40
  affected by what's going on. What about this?
• 22:42
  And this is the first time we're two seasons in to Whitaker.
• 22:47
  Yeah, it's the first time that it's ever acknowledged that
• 22:50
  somebody might consider her sexually attractive, which would
• 22:55
  have been kind of Unthinkable with any of the male doctors
• 22:58
  before this You know, Amy's flirting with him by the end of
• 23:01
  the 11th hour. Yeah, no.
• 23:05
  I mean but you know, debt tenant is sexy and knows that he's sexy
• 23:09
  or Jody little sexy. The things that makes his doctor
• 23:12
  insufferable but not having but not having like having Jody be
• 23:19
  completely sexless is if we have cast a warm and but we're a bit
• 23:23
  scared of the implications of it, I think is a problem and it
• 23:26
  is nice to have Lord Byron flirt with Her.
• 23:29
  And yes, his line about the possibility but she might snug
• 23:32
  Lord brought by her. And you know, that's one of the
• 23:35
  rules that may have said, don't mention Frankenstein.
• 23:39
  Nobody snog Lord Byron. And I think, you know, that's
• 23:42
  pretty great. You will say well, look at how
• 23:48
  well it had to be borrowing cuz he had bad and dangerous to know
• 23:51
  and basically shagged anything that moved.
• 23:53
  So I mean in that regard is kind of like a free hit, isn't it?
• 23:57
  You put the doctor and would Barn together and their barns
• 24:00
  Outlook when you chasing after Can I just say how incredibly
• 24:05
  useful Maxine baldry is as dr. Pollidori he is such an
• 24:10
  attractive man. He's also pretty even more
• 24:13
  gorgeous in years and years, you know.
• 24:16
  Yeah. Beautiful and years and years,
• 24:18
  just stunning. But he's very pretty here and
• 24:20
  it's such a different here. Is very kind of rare.
• 24:27
  He's threatening fisticuffs in a minute.
• 24:30
  Yeah. Watch it now.
• 24:37
  Yeah, well I just get drawn into it every single time.
• 24:41
  I think it's a perfect little chamber piece.
• 24:43
  You know, everything sort of comes in the three acts are very
• 24:46
  clear and at each turning point, something new and amazing
• 24:49
  happens, and takes the story to a new level.
• 24:52
  We'll get to the resolution. I think Nathan's had some some
• 24:54
  point earlier that, I'm, I tend to agree with, but it's just a
• 24:59
  watchable, the entire production is gorgeous.
• 25:02
  Everyone's on top form. Amazing cast.
• 25:05
  I don't know, I really do think that this is the strongest story
• 25:08
  out of the entire chip liver for me.
• 25:11
  I'm astonished how many times G is allowed to mention the
• 25:13
  toilet. You know
• 25:24
  there was a time when doctors told us we're not acknowledged
• 25:26
  at all in Doctor Who but it is that thing that Nathan was
• 25:32
  telling telling us about before that you either Got either of
• 25:35
  got companions doing Exposition or comic relief you know, to
• 25:38
  sort of quote. What is it messy in?
• 25:41
  Yeah, Missy it's me. See in yeah, well that we
• 25:49
  literally have that out, don't we?
• 25:51
  We have Dan is comic relief and yeah, it s position but there is
• 25:59
  something to be said. Now you just said they're all
• 26:01
  very thin. I do think I have good chemistry
• 26:03
  though and there is something Be said for that, you know, that
• 26:05
  was that was kind of go back into the 70s when Barry Letts
• 26:09
  was looking to college. Yeah, it was like I need people
• 26:12
  that are gonna hold your attention.
• 26:13
  Even if what's on the screen is boring?
• 26:15
  I know, she will shouldn't have aspired to what's on the screen
• 26:17
  to be boring. Haha, They still hold my
• 26:20
  attention. I think man, Dave Gil is a
• 26:24
  really great and I think she's going to go places because I
• 26:27
  think she's solidly good actor with a great deal of Charisma is
• 26:31
  seen against me thankless role. Is that scene in village of the
• 26:36
  Angels, where she sees the angel behind Dan, and she starts
• 26:40
  letting out tears of fear, she's I think she's yeah, like seem to
• 26:44
  think she's brilliant. She's just not know, really good
• 26:47
  everything, particularly well, I think that I think they
• 26:52
  underplay it. I think again, a lot of what
• 26:54
  goes wrong with the chip Malia is it's reacting against things
• 26:57
  in them often. Hear that we were probably tired
• 26:59
  of by the end of the mall for Tara, but that end up actually
• 27:03
  being a good idea. And that is having sort of
• 27:06
  Larger than Life regular cast with very defined viewpoints,
• 27:10
  and, and ways of Behaving, and having a doctor, that's a bit of
• 27:17
  a problem in some ways that both of us and Moffat do that.
• 27:23
  And it is 11. Don't they make the doctor a
• 27:26
  little bit safer? You know, she's quite variable
• 27:29
  and yeah, there aren't so many problematic moment.
• 27:33
  Although I think I asked, The air has gone on.
• 27:35
  There's been a few moments that are very problematic like that
• 27:39
  scene in spiteful, where she reveals the master for, who he
• 27:42
  is, what Nazis, I actually think the same, the steam in this,
• 27:49
  which I really liked, which I actually like I could beat less
• 27:51
  after watching it again. Yesterday is the scene where she
• 27:54
  talks about it actually not being a flat team structure, I
• 27:57
  think that's overwritten but it is actually nice for her to
• 28:01
  acknowledge. No, actually I'm in charge and
• 28:03
  I'm just going to do What I think is the right thing, and
• 28:06
  you guys don't get a say in it. And I think that's really good.
• 28:09
  I mean, I remember seeing her up here after twice upon a time and
• 28:13
  that terrible episode, where the doctor wants to kill himself
• 28:17
  from power, and then he turns into Jodie Whittaker, and she
• 28:24
  just Smiles. Big lie and says brilliant.
• 28:28
  And it was just like, oh my God, this is such a relief.
• 28:32
  Yeah. What's the current now I've
• 28:39
  completely lost track of the doctors got blue.
• 28:45
  Yeah we're back to the reign of terror.
• 28:47
  Yeah I'm sure he's in the in the Attic.
• 28:51
  As far in the cellar, the whole time in the cellar.
• 28:54
  Yeah, we so he should be in the house because he was at the
• 28:58
  time. I mean they actually do stop the
• 29:01
  riding a Frankenstein from happening on this night, don't
• 29:04
  they? I mean, it's this night that
• 29:07
  Frankenstein is to be written and they all have a competition
• 29:09
  to write something and Shelly brights Frankenstein, which is
• 29:14
  Shelly. Mary Shelley rights rights
• 29:16
  Frankenstein, but Shelley should be here.
• 29:19
  And that's how the doctor knows that something's already gone
• 29:22
  wrong. So, I guess that gives her
• 29:24
  license to interfere. I'm sorry, I'm just hypnotized
• 29:29
  by the ghost. That's just the light.
• 29:31
  Yeah, it's it's really good. Harry atmosphere problem here,
• 29:36
  II just feel as well. This was one story where there's
• 29:40
  so many weird things going on that.
• 29:44
  We did need an explanation for them all because we know you've
• 29:47
  got the hand and the skull, you've got people walking
• 29:50
  through walls, you've got ghost walking about like there's so
• 29:53
  much weird shit going on, but it doesn't feel unsafe.
• 29:56
  This fire, when all of that sort of slots into place.
• 30:00
  And but that's okay, this is one of the things that I think this
• 30:03
  script shows that, you know, chibnall doesn't sort of take up
• 30:07
  in his own stories. You don't need to be told and
• 30:10
  have things explained, and immediately after that happened.
• 30:13
  Yeah, you can wait until act 3, when you can, you know, you
• 30:16
  know, like, pyro bring all of this the characters into the
• 30:19
  room at the end and explain who did what to whom.
• 30:22
  That's the point where you can sort of expect.
• 30:24
  And this is what this is, what happens in this story.
• 30:25
  We'll see it later on. On the Siberian, when Shelia
• 30:28
  causing all these crazy things to happen in the house.
• 30:31
  Okay, great. I don't I don't need to be told
• 30:34
  that I don't need to have that explained whilst we're seeing,
• 30:36
  you know, the house turning to cast revolver or you know.
• 30:40
  Yeah, he's got little hands choking people.
• 30:43
  I want to be caught up in that and really enjoyed that and
• 30:47
  still at the back of my thinking, okay, there's got to
• 30:49
  be an explanation for this because it's Doctor Who and he
• 30:51
  can't just be, you know, crazy things happening for the sake of
• 30:54
  it. I'm going to get the space
• 30:56
  reasons explained. At the end of this and I'd much
• 30:58
  rather that than, you know, have it interspersed throughout and
• 31:00
  break that tension and that and the way that they do it isn't
• 31:04
  with a speech is that we get to see scenes that we're really
• 31:07
  striking. The first time re-enacted with
• 31:09
  Shelly involved in the, I think that's great.
• 31:11
  You know, when the, when the Vaz leaps up off the table and
• 31:15
  smashes against the opposite wall, then we go back and we see
• 31:18
  Shelly active just picking it up and throwing it and it's a
• 31:20
  gration. Yeah.
• 31:21
  Okay. Yeah and I think you're right
• 31:24
  there like Exposition does It needs to be done through action
• 31:28
  and or at least something visually arresting or fun or
• 31:32
  funny like the dance. Yeah, another great example is,
• 31:34
  and we were talking about this earlier this week, Joe in.
• 31:37
  Can you hear me? You get the animation of the
• 31:40
  explanation of the eternals or whatever they are.
• 31:43
  And I really enjoy that because it's visually arresting and say,
• 31:46
  okay great. Now we're getting told a story
• 31:48
  otherwise that were standing in rooms talking to one of it's
• 31:51
  literally going to be like, yeah, it's got to be one person.
• 31:54
  Just making the speech with the camera lingering on the Yeah, at
• 31:57
  least they're offering something that is visually striking.
• 31:59
  Yeah as a result. But I think that Exposition in,
• 32:04
  can you hear me is completely unnecessary.
• 32:06
  Like, we need something explaining, why there are gods
• 32:09
  and stuff, who cares? It's not who, you know, like
• 32:12
  yeah, we don't need to know. It's like the solar track speech
• 32:16
  in it. Takes you away, which is an
• 32:18
  episode that I have quite a soft spot for but we don't need to
• 32:22
  know that. It's some bullshit timelord
• 32:24
  thing, that makes it worse. Just got cops straight to our
• 32:34
  talking to the Frog on the chair.
• 32:36
  Yeah, let's have that. That's awesome revolver.
• 32:41
  I thought they found many ingenious ways for the time of
• 32:45
  showing people, you know, Walk It Out of spaces and back into
• 32:49
  them and making it a disoriented that's true.
• 32:51
  They just don't show any wish to walk out of a room and then walk
• 32:54
  back in the paint it so fucking cheap.
• 32:59
  I don't think it's so I actually kind of like that.
• 33:02
  Just think the easiest way to fix that is you have a walk in
• 33:05
  from the other side. Yeah, if she goes out stage left
• 33:08
  coming stage, right? It's not hard but it's so
• 33:11
  clearly is what it is. You know, she's walk Three Paces
• 33:15
  that way and turned around on her heels and walk back and say,
• 33:18
  I'm back in this room. I wonder how other people guess,
• 33:23
  how you're doing it for that Blake's 7 episode, where they
• 33:25
  keep going up that staircase and that same room and they just do
• 33:28
  it a different color, different shells.
• 33:30
  Yeah. Bloody cheap time high school,
• 33:35
  they do exactly the same trick that.
• 33:37
  Yeah, so in this is well like Jodi was he has a lot to do in
• 33:42
  this doesn't she's massively proactive yes and she gets a ton
• 33:47
  of dialogue. But for the most part is good
• 33:50
  dialogue, is she speaking? So you know, it just elevates
• 33:55
  her. I think there's one or two
• 33:56
  moments where you can pick that Shipment has inserted some kind
• 33:59
  of unnecessary. Exposition.
• 34:01
  But that yeah at the climax, you know and I think the bit where
• 34:05
  the side man arrived and she explains how so it's a
• 34:08
  congruence of this and that and low-tech there babbling like
• 34:11
  exactly we absolutely it was when he was had the electricity.
• 34:16
  The light recharging she's recharging and do We can
• 34:20
  literally see this. Give it alone.
• 34:23
  Put him down. I think Joe what this time
• 34:28
  watching it? I always have like the second
• 34:31
  half of this better than the first.
• 34:33
  I think our first office time is all the mystery and all the
• 34:39
  horror that they were leaning into when the side man, who is
• 34:41
  and I do love a Shad in this and I think it's a great design and
• 34:47
  a fantastic Millions as well. Well, and there's one bit in
• 34:50
  particular that I was raving about which I'm going to Rave
• 34:53
  about today because this is absolutely addressing a Moffat
• 34:57
  cliche and then doing something fucking brilliant with that, but
• 35:03
  we'll get there good. I'm just, I'm just thinking
• 35:09
  about Max in baldry, mesmerised and unable to defend himself, to
• 35:13
  be honest, excuse me. That's my role in this play, but
• 35:15
  that's just me. And for the wall, very nice.
• 35:27
  So just turn the lights down, it's just it's so good, isn't
• 35:31
  it? It's really that just looks
• 35:34
  terrific and it's a thing I could never have done in classic
• 35:37
  Doctor Who because I don't know, they could have but they never
• 35:40
  chose to always turn the lines up.
• 35:42
  I mean, they did our house touring ghost.
• 35:45
  I didn't make, but that was very well, it's well lit.
• 35:49
  Yeah, yeah, I think also the playing around with filters and
• 35:53
  all sorts of things in Photoshop or whatever it is that they use
• 35:55
  to sort of grade the film which is all Gillette After Effects.
• 35:59
  Yeah. That helps too.
• 36:02
  Ask all I would say, that's what about the baby?
• 36:05
  How they set up the baby for that wonderful sort of
• 36:09
  heart-stopping moment where he picks it up and the holes that
• 36:14
  are murders. The maze.
• 36:17
  So you're like yeah it's curtains for the baby because it
• 36:21
  grows up, it's a historical person, you know, you know, it's
• 36:30
  Doctor Who they're not going to, that is really great.
• 36:32
  You don't get to kill it by E, be on Doctor Who come on
• 36:35
  blankets Doctor Who but there is a moment there.
• 36:39
  It could be like three or four minutes of screen time where
• 36:42
  yeah to the uninitiated viewer and certainly someone who maybe
• 36:47
  doesn't know their literary figures but I think you would
• 36:50
  probably be led to believe that. Yeah the baby was killed at that
• 36:53
  point by I should. Yeah you're speaking somebody
• 36:55
  who doesn't know his literary figures genuinely for the baby
• 36:59
  was going to be dead. So there we go.
• 37:01
  Yeah, no, no. Never A killer baby and Doctor?
• 37:03
  Who surely. I think that I'm still cross
• 37:05
  about the dog in time at the Ronnie not time of the running.
• 37:08
  Mark of the Rani still very he killed his own grandchild at the
• 37:13
  end of children of Earth. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 37:17
  But that's a hard name is horrible moppet high on a
• 37:24
  minute. Infant side at the end of my
• 37:28
  sinful cited, at the end of The Runaway Bride, all those little
• 37:32
  spider babies, there's spiders, you flush them down the sink.
• 37:37
  That's what you do with spine, you might think differently.
• 37:52
  I love this shot through the window with the rain coming
• 37:54
  down. Why you can absolutely see why
• 37:58
  somebody like, Jeff got ours. I thought.
• 38:01
  Oh yeah. Sumptuous is so wonderful.
• 38:04
  But you know, his favorite episode is a nice one.
• 38:07
  Yeah, and I refuse to condemn it because the ghost Monument is
• 38:10
  full of beautiful images. I thought they had the location
• 38:16
  that first big location shooting South Africa and so everything
• 38:20
  looks massive, an expansive, you know, what?
• 38:23
  And plus on Malik, I'm a huge fan following Cyberman, there's
• 38:26
  sort of hovering above the lake there.
• 38:28
  It looks a bit more like the one that's Ian Cybermen, doesn't he
• 38:32
  in the distant? Yeah, but do I love looks like
• 38:37
  it looks like it's on film from the early 20th century or
• 38:41
  something like very early black and white.
• 38:44
  Film and it the visual effects that are given to it make it
• 38:48
  look grainy and you know like a make it into a representation of
• 38:54
  the Cybermen on film. I think it's really good and I
• 38:57
  really like that is oh yeah it's quite far away.
• 39:01
  We're still quite safe and then in a heartbeat is out there in
• 39:05
  the corridor and coming to get us.
• 39:08
  What do you think about the design of like the half face?
• 39:14
  It's really good. I think it's really good and the
• 39:17
  closeup of his mouth and he's got a really like he's got such
• 39:20
  kind of scary looking teeth, you know like he looks like the
• 39:24
  human part of him looks really scary and like the other teeth
• 39:27
  and metal or something. There's something away.
• 39:29
  Yeah. Mmm.
• 39:30
  Well the skin is almost like scarred and stuff.
• 39:36
  I think it really speaks to that body horror We last saw her not
• 39:39
  too long ago, I guess, in terms of the doctors timeline in World
• 39:42
  enough and time in the doctor falls where, you know, seidman
• 39:46
  really become as horrible as they should have been right from
• 39:50
  the start is the body horror aspect of it.
• 39:52
  You can see that obviously in a shadow as well and you know the
• 39:55
  fact that all grimy and you know, bits of broken off, you
• 39:59
  know, he's obviously it doesn't have that sort of clean.
• 40:02
  Look about the Cybermen which is a bit to be too clean.
• 40:05
  Perhaps this is this is just ghoulish.
• 40:08
  In every single way, last time we saw it, right?
• 40:11
  Attack of the Cybermen, isn't it?
• 40:12
  Would listen all. Yeah.
• 40:16
  It's muffled Cybermen are corpses in need armor.
• 40:21
  Like they're, they're, you know, in in our TD's conception
• 40:25
  they've had their brain surgically removed and they've
• 40:28
  been chopped up and and there's neural tissue throughout seeing
• 40:32
  to make it work or whatever. But my father says no, their
• 40:35
  dead bodies in armor and that works really Well done, water.
• 40:40
  That a terrifying thing. In dark Waters.
• 40:42
  My polling, honestly, don't cremate me.
• 40:47
  So good. We've Ross's the eggs always
• 40:49
  feel like the, the emphasis on the loss of identity.
• 40:51
  So you get a lot of momentum in the initial two-parter and then
• 40:56
  there's a lot of focus on the loss of identity in the next
• 40:59
  Doctor as well. Isn't there, Mmm?
• 41:03
  Yeah. What, I'm not sure what she was
• 41:04
  trying to say about the sidemen really, you get a shot who is
• 41:08
  genuinely terrifying? But then you get the normal
• 41:13
  side, maybe we should just clumpy monsters and then you get
• 41:16
  the cyber Lords. Last fall about I think every
• 41:20
  like next all I can say, that's okay, it's full but I think next
• 41:26
  week the Cybermen aren't just really shitty like just
• 41:30
  terrible. It's the most generic next week
• 41:34
  in the time. In Haiti Cybermen.
• 41:38
  Yeah that's that's the only good thing.
• 41:41
  The rest of it is just as generic as possible.
• 41:44
  It's just a kind of warmed over version of her.
• 41:47
  Earth shock, without Barrel. Read moment of like
• 41:54
  heart-stopping. I don't know.
• 41:56
  I remember the suspense of first watching this but he's just
• 41:59
  killed the butler. The ballot is just killed the
• 42:02
  maid and you'd think he's any compunction in killing.
• 42:05
  And you know, that is one thing I will credit.
• 42:07
  She ignored for, and he obviously has had a hand in.
• 42:10
  This is a his monsters do just fucking murder people that Darla
• 42:14
  comes along in resolution. Kills a whole bunch of people.
• 42:20
  I don't remember Daleks doing that much Canadian off its time.
• 42:24
  Yeah. And I think the other thing that
• 42:25
  works with that is that there's one Dalek and here, there's one.
• 42:28
  Yeah, so he's kind of boring from Moffat maybe in the sense
• 42:32
  that it's the body horror aspect but it's also boring very much
• 42:35
  from humans, Dalek episode here, muscles first in as well.
• 42:39
  Well remember that the Dalek with two shots kills all of
• 42:43
  clothes so it's just yeah, shoots twice and their old bear.
• 42:47
  Mmm. And this does lead into, I know
• 42:49
  a criticism of yours Nathan of the era that there's nothing
• 42:53
  original here. He is essentially borrowing.
• 42:55
  All of his best shocks and twists from the other era, like
• 42:59
  the master of you inspire for like The Fugitive doctor in
• 43:02
  futures of the judoon, but I will say, he can't do those
• 43:06
  moments. Well, borrow it or not.
• 43:08
  I think that reviewers by 4 is great.
• 43:10
  I think that revealing fugitive of the judoon is great and I
• 43:13
  think I shot His Brilliant in this, I think he Again, and
• 43:18
  typically of the Jubilee, right? He just gets thrown away a
• 43:21
  couple of episodes later, like, just goes nowhere.
• 43:25
  Yeah. Yeah, the master kills it in,
• 43:27
  you know, again, using a great special effect, but it's kind of
• 43:30
  like, well, what was all that about?
• 43:32
  Then can I say that? I have, in fact, read some of
• 43:35
  the script of the Centenary special and you would never
• 43:40
  believe where he turns up again. I'm not going to reveal it now
• 43:43
  because I'll probably get a lot of trouble and be able to come
• 43:46
  and shoot me or me. I love the sound knocking down
• 43:49
  my door. Offering me 30 grand for the
• 43:50
  script, but how could you manage?
• 43:52
  You would never believe where. That tiny arshad ends up in the
• 44:04
  episode? Get in touch.
• 44:07
  It's really fucking terrible. I think these clam are these
• 44:14
  really pretty, she's right. It's good.
• 44:17
  I joined another team, please. Thank you.
• 44:19
  Yeah, that's really that's roughly.
• 44:21
  Funny. Yeah.
• 44:23
  Oh here we go. Here's that bit of exposition.
• 44:25
  Here we are. Recharging.
• 44:27
  Yeah. Although she does get that line
• 44:29
  about breath mints. I like that.
• 44:31
  Yeah, yeah. I give it its this bit onwards
• 44:35
  figuring out how to manipulate the elements from creating an
• 44:37
  extreme sophisticated, and probably unlimited external
• 44:40
  power source. It's even more tedious glass
• 44:43
  hard. If you told are absolutely
• 44:48
  unnecessary. Yeah, yeah.
• 44:53
  Okay, let's find little people. We're about to start getting
• 45:02
  some explanations. Now, aren't we?
• 45:04
  When She say there's a foul stench down here.
• 45:08
  That's all very nice people. Yes, I'm sure it is.
• 45:10
  Shelly. He's a very pretty manner as
• 45:13
  well. You know?
• 45:14
  There's a lot pretty bad week though.
• 45:17
  I think the week the room again. Yes, quite work.
• 45:21
  Where have I seen him before, shall we?
• 45:24
  I thought the answer, I think I feel like I have, not sure.
• 45:30
  Might have to Google it later. So I do like it where Whitaker
• 45:35
  dances around the the monster of the week being a bit sarcastic.
• 45:39
  You know, she does it with the Dalek in resolution as well.
• 45:43
  Yeah no I think it's really important to have a doctor vs
• 45:47
  Monster or villain Showdown where the doctor isn't afraid or
• 45:51
  if they are afraid, they're relying on the Ingenuity here
• 45:55
  and then cleverness and wit. I think that's really important.
• 45:57
  Definitely, I think the whole notion that people throw in the
• 46:01
  air that Whitaker's doctor does not have Confrontation savings
• 46:06
  is complete nonsense. It's not that she doesn't is
• 46:09
  that she doesn't have enough of them and it certainly doesn't
• 46:11
  happen all the time. We're talking about Robin said
• 46:12
  before, in Iraq into the UK or what he keeps getting away.
• 46:17
  Yeah, and it's not to say I will, you know, he comes back in
• 46:21
  another story. So he can't possibly be eaten by
• 46:23
  a spider or whatever. So, okay, fine, you just have to
• 46:26
  be in by a spider but at least send him to jail for a bit
• 46:31
  answer for his crimes. Christophe has You know, had a
• 46:34
  bit of trouble like just about every person going.
• 46:37
  He's been canceled. Yeah.
• 46:48
  It's troubling this neighbor, it is it's that's another one that
• 46:53
  stuff is horribly from Exposition where we just get
• 46:56
  ages devoted to telling us how they got to be Daleks again and
• 47:01
  we couldn't possibly care about it.
• 47:03
  I'm gonna counter that along, uh, saying is that fabulous
• 47:06
  moment where she convinces, all the Daleks to fly inside it and
• 47:09
  then the whole child is just scroll, that's very doctor.
• 47:12
  Yeah, I like yeah, that is good. Is that And Daleks versus Daleks
• 47:17
  on the bridge and all his lost. Love you, there's too little of
• 47:20
  that there should be more of that.
• 47:21
  That's what we're here for. I think, in that story.
• 47:25
  It lists of Chris KT business. Dealings would be nice.
• 47:32
  I love it. We just had the two servant
• 47:43
  killed and, you know, to Nathan's coin it's the the
• 47:46
  working class characters, kill, kill your working-class
• 47:49
  characters, true, perhaps. But then I mean if you are going
• 47:54
  to have psilocybin alone, Simon stop around and kill people.
• 47:58
  You're going to have to have them kill people and you can't
• 48:00
  be the historical figure so you're kind of in no that's
• 48:03
  right. Yeah yeah yeah.
• 48:05
  And we're about to have and you got us all to dilemmas.
• 48:10
  For the doctor in this episode, number one is down, in the
• 48:15
  cellar, isn't every year we've Shelly.
• 48:17
  And the number two is once you have the Siberia of inside of
• 48:20
  her, and what she does with that, And I think I really like
• 48:26
  the first one, but one, because she shows her teeth a bit and I
• 48:31
  really liked how she cuts Ryan down as well, because she
• 48:34
  doesn't do that all too often. But I don't like the fact that
• 48:39
  it's not a dialogue. It's basically just her talking
• 48:42
  and talking and talking. Yeah.
• 48:45
  And you know, one good thing that I have to say is that in
• 48:50
  the RTD era, they invent this thing.
• 48:53
  The fixed point in time, and that normal moral rules, don't
• 48:57
  apply around a fixed point in time.
• 48:59
  You're not allowed to save people because they didn't get
• 49:01
  saved and stuff. And I think that's bullshit,
• 49:04
  space reasons and I think it's a big problem.
• 49:06
  I think it's the biggest problem with Waters of Mars.
• 49:09
  For instance, these we want the doctor to disobey the rules and
• 49:12
  save people because that's what the doctor does.
• 49:14
  Does, but the doctor gets punished for it.
• 49:16
  He's seen as over reaching in waters of Mars here.
• 49:20
  What we get is Percy bysshe Shelley is important, not
• 49:26
  because he's, you know, a very smart man.
• 49:28
  Necessarily are a great person or whatever, but because he's
• 49:32
  had an effect on the world because everyone has heard a few
• 49:34
  because people have joined University classes to study in
• 49:39
  more bonded, over their shared love of Shelley's writing or
• 49:43
  whatever. And That is, that makes a
• 49:47
  difference to the world if he dies now because he's known, he
• 49:52
  has this sort of massive effect on the world and I like that.
• 49:56
  It's a little bit like the motivation for carrying in
• 50:00
  Punjab which is these, are you guys's ancestors?
• 50:05
  And so Yaz stopped existing if something happens to them.
• 50:08
  And I think that's good. But I do think that the thing
• 50:11
  that RTD and Moffat both have over this, Is they give that
• 50:16
  importance to everyone because any one of us can do a little
• 50:20
  thing that changes history without realizing it.
• 50:23
  Do you know what I mean? We could do anything.
• 50:25
  We turned left rather than right one morning and things change
• 50:29
  and it's so so, you know, I think this dilemma here is a bit
• 50:34
  fake. Do we save Shelly or do we save
• 50:37
  the future? And I think that You know, you
• 50:41
  saved the person in front of you.
• 50:43
  You don't let people die because all of that time stuff is all
• 50:47
  just made up. There's no real moral principle
• 50:49
  at stake there. Does that make sense?
• 50:51
  It does. It does make sense, but it just
• 50:54
  then automatically flaws. Anything, that's a in the past,
• 50:56
  you can't tell a story where the doctor is, the doctor in the
• 51:00
  past, unless you accept the fixed point in time, I think if
• 51:03
  that is the price that you have to pay for a historical or a
• 51:06
  celebrity historical or a pseudo historical, whatever the case
• 51:09
  is, I just think that that's it. That's just the limitations of
• 51:12
  the supposedly Limitless nature of Doctor Who is a genre.
• 51:16
  Yeah. And I think that that's a
• 51:18
  problem where she'd bill is introduced in historical, is in
• 51:21
  a way that Moffat basically never did or, you know, once or
• 51:25
  twice. And, and the problem with
• 51:29
  historical sees that the doctor can't change anything and think
• 51:32
  about those early historical roles that aren't by sort of
• 51:35
  Dennis Spooner. We're basically, it's, we need
• 51:38
  to get out of here because the past, Hostile.
• 51:41
  And we've got to go and we don't try and fix anything.
• 51:44
  We just try and leave when the doctor become someone who can
• 51:47
  fix something, but she's in the past.
• 51:50
  So often she ends up not being able to do anything.
• 51:53
  See, I want to know why she can overthrow?
• 51:57
  Well, she hardly ever overthrows anything.
• 52:01
  Okay. Why the doctor why?
• 52:03
  The doctor can, you know, overthrow the government in the
• 52:06
  Savages but can't overthrow the government of Alabama, in Rose.
• 52:12
  Do you know what I mean? Like my doctor tricks.
• 52:15
  The governor of Alabama into exploding a bomb in the
• 52:18
  Statehouse. Killing all of the gal, Bama
• 52:22
  government needs something done which would have been great.
• 52:24
  That would have been an absolute Triumph but we can't do that.
• 52:27
  That's not available to us. And that's a problem.
• 52:31
  And I, well, I felt in this moment, it was an effort to give
• 52:36
  Jodi, which because dr. A moment and she hasn't had Many
• 52:40
  moments like, no, yeah, dramatic moments in the climax of an
• 52:45
  episode, and it does feel a little bit manufactured.
• 52:50
  I've felt that actually the first time I was watching this
• 52:53
  and I remember a lot of praise for the mountainous speech, but
• 52:56
  I did feel like it was a bit forced, but having said, yeah,
• 53:00
  it's this moment and also the moment during covid, where she
• 53:03
  records a piece on her phone good, where Holly crested are to
• 53:09
  see what this doctor. Is about.
• 53:10
  I was her best episodes are the moments that we get to see the
• 53:17
  doctor. So I agree.
• 53:18
  This is Clumsy and ham-fisted. And as I say right at the
• 53:21
  beginning, when I first saw her didn't quite land for me, but
• 53:24
  it's kind of what the doctor should be doing.
• 53:26
  The doctor should have a moment where whether it's in a
• 53:29
  pertwee's Manoj Sharma, what he would call it, they need to be
• 53:32
  the doctors and they to be the proactive force that resolves
• 53:34
  this you know, drug dilemma or whatever the case is at the
• 53:38
  climax of the story. And here, but it's like it's a
• 53:42
  dilemma here. When it's one person were suit
• 53:45
  versus like, the future audio. And yet, when it's the Dilemma
• 53:51
  is, it's the Earth or the Siberia?
• 53:53
  Mm. Well then she absolutely makes
• 53:55
  that call straight away and I'm gonna show you.
• 53:56
  Okay, I'll save the Earth. That's what I do.
• 53:59
  And then I'll clear up my horrible mess afterwards, which
• 54:02
  I do like, I like that ending. I think it's a superb.
• 54:05
  Way of setting up a final two parter.
• 54:07
  The problem is a lot, doesn't it?
• 54:09
  Absolutely. The problem is type it
• 54:11
  delicious. Exactly it absolutely drops the
• 54:17
  ball because she should be going to a future that is different
• 54:20
  from what she knows. So, you know, a chance threatens
• 54:24
  to damage the future in some way, but she just goes to the
• 54:28
  Future and it's this thing that always happened when there's
• 54:30
  seven human beings Left Alive, and the whole place is overrun
• 54:34
  by. So I have a man and she is
• 54:36
  unable to do anything with her, she arrives after all of that
• 54:39
  happens. Interject during this moment,
• 54:42
  please, because I, when I first watched this, I genuinely
• 54:45
  thought we were heading for one of those Agony NG love
• 54:49
  agonizing, love conquers. All moments that you get in many
• 54:52
  as Steven Moffat episode where she's going, you were a man,
• 54:55
  once I can see, there's still a soul in there and your child and
• 54:59
  he takes her hand and he cocks his head.
• 55:01
  I'm like, please no, please don't do this again.
• 55:05
  And then he comes out with this, I can poison about slitting, his
• 55:09
  children's Frozen, Is, it's a bit much actually, but I love
• 55:14
  the way it pushes against that because I just never would have
• 55:18
  forgiven the episode of it ended there.
• 55:23
  And then this is very strange, isn't it?
• 55:25
  It's kind of like they wanted to get this bit of Percy.
• 55:28
  Bysshe, Shelley's, Wikipedia entry.
• 55:33
  How do we do him drowning educated?
• 55:36
  Okay. I'll donate or now offering it
• 55:44
  for every historical. That just reading the Wiki page,
• 55:49
  Rosa Parks, right? It's lovely.
• 55:57
  Am I wrong in my own head Canon? You thinking this is, whatever
• 56:00
  it is that Matt Smith talks to when talking to himself, in
• 56:03
  nightmare in silver, or is that a different kind of buzz blows
• 56:06
  you think that recently, they use the word side be Riyadh
• 56:09
  there and that's like, The Cybermen Empire.
• 56:14
  That's my little Quicksilver cyber Mike's in that one so / -
• 56:19
  yeah yeah. Let's just assume.
• 56:24
  It's a new Cyber thing. Cyber Technology.
• 56:28
  Yeah. Who's got this convenience
• 56:30
  spaceship? That's up there.
• 56:32
  Well, we didn't know how we've been doing or anything.
• 56:35
  That's going to now destroy the Earth.
• 56:39
  No II. Yeah.
• 56:40
  Do we? I think this work is ongoing.
• 56:43
  I think it works because it's all about the next two parts.
• 56:46
  Now you've just had a fantastic self-contained episode and now
• 56:51
  there's going to be an enormous threat posed to the future of
• 56:54
  humanity and the Cybermen will arise blah blah blah.
• 56:58
  I just hate how we transpires over there but I think it's a
• 57:02
  really good way of setting up. You know we see it we in
• 57:05
  episodes like Utopia or face the The Raven third, last one, or
• 57:09
  turn left, we'll set up a fantastic or you, you know, a
• 57:12
  really epic sort of last to partner.
• 57:15
  I, yeah, I don't suppose, this is the right time for me to
• 57:18
  mention. I genuinely quite like Ascension
• 57:20
  of the sidemen. So boring.
• 57:26
  I just there the whole time going.
• 57:28
  Where's Barrel read? Like, I mean, which one What
• 57:37
  happens to her? Joe what happened?
• 57:39
  She goes to Earth to have a romance with graham that clearly
• 57:42
  never. And then disappears without a
• 57:45
  trace, and is never mentioned again, having a relationship
• 57:49
  with mr. Kaufer, the same thing.
• 57:52
  Well, my question was going to be of the seven humans left.
• 57:55
  At the end of the universe. Who is your favorite mind?
• 57:57
  You had like only because that stupid horrible name space. my
• 58:09
  theory is that all of the humans from the future in particular
• 58:13
  are all related and the those space names are their first
• 58:17
  names and their last name is space name, space name, Zell in
• 58:28
  space name again, he really loved the last five minutes.
• 59:13
  Let me see. So Nathan, you have a problem
• 59:16
  with the, the great man of History sort of approach to
• 59:18
  historical zw--, it may be that we see here.
• 59:22
  Yeah I mean I think they just about sell it by saying that
• 59:26
  removing Shelly affects the future are not because he's a
• 59:29
  great man necessarily but because he's well known.
• 59:32
  So the world. You know, she says to Ryan the
• 59:35
  future won't be the world that gave us.
• 59:37
  You it won't be the world that you grew up in and that makes
• 59:40
  sense. I think and could be done before
• 59:43
  but it is Reason for her not to act at all for her to never go
• 59:47
  to the Past because it's so potentially dangerous and I mean
• 59:52
  it makes no sense that she's gone here tonight.
• 59:55
  Why would she turn up here? Tonight, I on the night that
• 59:58
  there's supposed to be getting on with writing Frankenstein, it
• 1:00:01
  seems like a bad idea. Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  But I think when you smile it is, well, if I had a time
• 1:00:05
  travel, which is exactly what I'd be doing, and this is the
• 1:00:08
  point, you have a time-travel machine, you can't not go back
• 1:00:11
  to the past. It's yeah, these are the
• 1:00:13
  limitations that, you must impose.
• 1:00:14
  Upon yourself to tell these kinds of stories.
• 1:00:17
  It's irresponsible, but I did it to be.
• 1:00:22
  Yeah, it's a funny Choice. It is a funny, like, you can't
• 1:00:26
  push it at too hard. It's like the doctor never thing
• 1:00:29
  the companions again. Now, after dropping them off.
• 1:00:31
  Now that she has an actual functioning time machine, like,
• 1:00:34
  it doesn't really make sense but we just have to go with it.
• 1:00:37
  I think we're stuck with that as an idea.
• 1:00:39
  No, I like that very cheeky lying that you had thereafter,
• 1:00:42
  you know, Jon Pertwee insisted that.
• 1:00:44
  There are no Anyway, yeah, maybe there are come on, jump in now
• 1:00:50
  and tell me the explanation. Is that there aren't really,
• 1:00:52
  ghosts are there? And just goes, unless they are.
• 1:00:55
  Yeah, I think. Yeah, it's great.
• 1:01:00
  This is a nice thing, as well. Giving Jodi a bit of.
• 1:01:06
  Yeah, bit of Pros. Are she's the Universe?
• 1:01:09
  I think it's quite lovely here. Mmm.
• 1:01:13
  I think the point is there is if there are moments that we feel
• 1:01:17
  that don't work. This is generally one of those
• 1:01:20
  episodes that comes together. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:23
  Yeah, various. Yeah, I think so too.
• 1:01:27
  And I am now going to force both of you gentlemen to give me two
• 1:01:33
  reasons of Peace. Why you admire The Haunting
• 1:01:39
  availability? Adulty start with Nathan,
• 1:01:42
  Stable, then to me and then background again.
• 1:01:47
  Well, look, I'm just watching the next time trailer for a
• 1:01:50
  second, which is so Dreadful. There's something about, you
• 1:01:59
  know, the series 11 and the cinematography which is really
• 1:02:01
  great. But the show looks really cheap
• 1:02:04
  because there's no other people apart from the regular cars to
• 1:02:07
  her very much. So I guess I think that the
• 1:02:12
  production and the music really come together and I think This
• 1:02:16
  is and this matter as it sounds trivial but this is the best
• 1:02:20
  late historical. Oh my God.
• 1:02:23
  Is that roaring? I'm going for it.
• 1:02:26
  It's really well lately. I think that's actually think
• 1:02:29
  that probably matters and so I'm going with that, can I ask if
• 1:02:35
  you saw any reflective surfaces for our episode?
• 1:02:38
  There was some glass window glass in them all their
• 1:02:43
  reflection. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:53
  I think that's really good. And I think mixing baldry is
• 1:02:56
  stunningly beautiful. And I'm just happy watching mean
• 1:02:58
  anything. So they might generate.
• 1:03:01
  Those are the two most that are reasons I've ever owned.
• 1:03:04
  What do you mean? I definitely just how beautiful
• 1:03:09
  it looks in. The lining is so instrumental in
• 1:03:10
  there, but my to would be, this is an superbly plotted story.
• 1:03:16
  You can see the three acts stitching together.
• 1:03:18
  You can see the turning points between them, you can see how
• 1:03:21
  the rise in tension leads to an incredible Climax and then the
• 1:03:23
  resolution, which for me works. So I think just in terms of the
• 1:03:27
  way that it's written by Maxine Alderson who I think is probably
• 1:03:29
  one of the best three things out of the entire children, alera
• 1:03:32
  the discovery of her and her writing.
• 1:03:35
  That is my my absolute number one.
• 1:03:37
  Absolute my, number two, I guess I really like when Doctor Who
• 1:03:42
  does literary things and to have literary characters and on that
• 1:03:45
  night when, you know, sci-fi and modern sci-fi and horror was
• 1:03:49
  effectively born I'd sort of bring Doctor Who as I said as
• 1:03:54
  text, not just as a character into that, I think is just sweet
• 1:03:58
  and lovely. So that tickle me enormously to
• 1:04:02
  I'm going to say that Christian or should been paying hearty
• 1:04:05
  attention to that dance scene in this episode because he still
• 1:04:09
  had all season to write. So he could have learned, you
• 1:04:13
  know, perfectly how to write musician.
• 1:04:16
  He certainly didn't and introduce Carol.
• 1:04:17
  No, the premix. Bloody excellent.
• 1:04:21
  For Thomas children, where we got a half an hour piece of
• 1:04:24
  exposition, pretty pictures also known as the man's formation of
• 1:04:27
  the doctor to me and you get phrase agree on that you think
• 1:04:31
  so and my second thing is the I think a Shad is a genuine.
• 1:04:39
  Yeah. Of the Cybermen and that's
• 1:04:42
  something that's been done since 1960.
• 1:04:45
  Help me out here. Thank you very much.
• 1:04:47
  And how hard is it to find sort of new avenues with it?
• 1:04:51
  If it tried to do with the Daleks several times, I think he
• 1:04:54
  went down several blind alleys and I think when chibnall he's
• 1:04:57
  not doing original things because he's bringing back
• 1:04:59
  Daleks and Cybermen and the master but when he does I think
• 1:05:03
  that Dalek in resolution that sort of first first Charlotte B
• 1:05:08
  ve being possessed and then building the no scratch, that
• 1:05:12
  was really interesting. The half-human side man in this.
• 1:05:15
  That's really interesting. And I think Sasha towards Master
• 1:05:18
  is absolutely superb. So I think Yeah, the fact that I
• 1:05:23
  actually managed to do something interesting with a very old idea
• 1:05:29
  is worth a little bit of Pretties.
• 1:05:32
  Hmm. Well, on that note, Stephen the
• 1:05:37
  next time I speak to you. Yeah.
• 1:05:39
  Where are we heading back to the 50s?
• 1:05:41
  Are we, we are it'll be series to again because I genuinely
• 1:05:44
  believe it's the pits series of new whoever it's going to be the
• 1:05:48
  idiots Lantern. So good to hear someone richly
• 1:05:53
  appraised. That one is going to be
• 1:05:55
  marvelous and Nathan. I think you and I are heading to
• 1:05:58
  satellite five. I think we are.
• 1:06:01
  Yeah to do where I'm not sure you're going to have any any
• 1:06:05
  serious criticisms to make at all.
• 1:06:07
  No, it's superb. It's everything.
• 1:06:10
  I want Doctor Who to be and it was unbelievably exciting.
• 1:06:15
  The first time we saw it in 2005, so great, it's Doctor Who
• 1:06:19
  takes over all of television. Just before it did, would it be
• 1:06:25
  overly? Ambitious.
• 1:06:26
  Say that is your favorite Doctor, Who story?
• 1:06:29
  I don't do spreadsheets or not numerical ratings or anything
• 1:06:34
  like that and it is sometimes my favorite Doctor Who story but
• 1:06:41
  that it just depends on how I'm feeling on any given day.
• 1:06:44
  But yeah, it's up there for sure.
• 1:06:47
  So strongly the idiots Lantern is not your favorite story.
• 1:06:51
  No. He does come from my favorite
• 1:06:53
  new series so that's why we're doing it.
• 1:06:56
  It's gonna be a brilliant. Well, it's Maureen.
• 1:06:58
  Lipman has been cancelled. Hasn't she's a turf or
• 1:07:01
  something. Probably.
• 1:07:01
  She's I don't know. It's I loved her.
• 1:07:06
  Do you remember? Um, Agony, I loved it.
• 1:07:08
  I can eat you. I was a trivial and she came up
• 1:07:11
  in that. Yeah, I could.
• 1:07:12
  Yeah, I had a big crush on her. She was wonderful, just so good.
• 1:07:17
  Then they did it again in the 90s and she had a gay son, and I
• 1:07:20
  mean crush on him. There we go.
• 1:07:23
  He's fascinating things about us, guys.
• 1:07:28
  Thank you very much for your time.
• 1:07:29
  Has been an absolute blast. Thank you, thank you.
• 1:07:32
  And thank you for having us. Yeah.