Latest / The Inspired Speaker Network / Coping With Grief: How to Give Yourself Permission to Feel Featuring Danielle Benzon

Transcript

Coping With Grief: How to Give Yourself Permission to Feel Featuring Danielle Benzon · The Inspired Speaker Network

• 0:00
  Hey everybody, are you having a great day? Yes! Oh no, you're not? It's okay, I got you.
• 0:07
  I'm Tif Loeffler. Welcome to Positively Yours. I'm going to share Tif's tips, techniques,
• 0:12
  and a little bit of magic to help you up-level and have a great day every day. Are you ready
• 0:19
  to get started? Yeah! Oh, you're not? That's okay, I still got you. Let's go.
• 0:27
  And hello everyone. I must say that this is an episode that I wished I had never had to even
• 0:36
  think about. And today's topic is going to be about grief. I think that the most important tip
• 0:49
  that I could ever give you helps tie into the relationship that I have with my co-host,
• 0:59
  Danielle, for this season. Because I have been, and already, everybody, I've got my box of tissues
• 1:06
  ready. It is the reminder, the gentle reminder, that we truly must give ourselves time to be.
• 1:20
  And I feel this ties in beautifully to the tip that was given to me by Danielle,
• 1:28
  and it is this, is that when you need to rest, you simply rest. When that time arrives,
• 1:34
  and now I'm going to bring that into the realm of when there is a time where this is not,
• 1:42
  tips for when you're not having quite such a great day. Now we have gone all the way to,
• 1:46
  this is the worst day of my life, and I don't know how I am possibly going to get through it.
• 1:55
  You have every right to claim for yourself that space to actually grieve. I find it almost
• 2:04
  ridiculous that I have to say out loud that we must give ourselves permission to grieve.
• 2:12
  And why I say that is because the confounding part about grief to me is that it is
• 2:22
  completely universal. Nobody can escape leaving the planet. That's just, we arrive and we leave.
• 2:29
  And also, unless you are a complete robot, or maybe robots even have feelings,
• 2:37
  you are going to experience moments where the grief is going to overtake you.
• 2:43
  Because that just seems to be the nature of grief as I've been experiencing it.
• 2:48
  And so my tip for you is to please give yourself permission. And if you simply even need to say
• 2:56
  out loud, you know, because Tif said so. Tif said that I could take permission to have an ugly
• 3:01
  cry or scream out loud or yell blankety blank, blank, blank. I get to do that because I'm taking
• 3:08
  the time because it is happening. And that is my tip for you, if I could use that. Yes,
• 3:16
  the tip for today is please give yourself permission to feel the feels. And on that note,
• 3:24
  I have all the feels for Danielle Benzon, who is here with me this season. And I really appreciate
• 3:31
  that she was willing to go on this journey with me talking about grief. So Danielle,
• 3:38
  I just wanted to thank you so much for being here today with me.
• 3:42
  Aw, thank you for having me. It's an important topic, this.
• 3:47
  It is. And again, as I said before, and I feel it bears repeating that everybody,
• 3:54
  it's it's so universal. And also, everybody goes through their own grieving differently for
• 4:03
  each time you're grieving. It doesn't look the same for everyone. But there are some similarities.
• 4:08
  But also if I don't know, go ahead. Jump in. It doesn't always have to be grief, too. I mean,
• 4:14
  I have experienced grief. But I think also, there are other things that happen. I'm a depressive. I
• 4:21
  have had very serious depressive episodes that had nothing to do with grief. So I think also,
• 4:30
  like all of those negative emotions, I kind of feel because some people like, oh, grief is okay,
• 4:37
  but depression isn't, you know, and I don't want to have any of that. No elitism.
• 4:41
  Gotcha. You know, any sort of any time you are feeling pain, emotional pain,
• 4:52
  it's valid. And we need to acknowledge it in order to move through it. We cannot move through it if
• 4:59
  we're in denial. So it is important to, you know, know, and it's okay. Yeah, even if you have to say
• 5:05
  Tif said so. Or Danielle said so. That's right. You know? Yeah, I'm so glad that and here's the
• 5:15
  other thing, people can disagree on how they're dealing with their grief. And that's okay, too.
• 5:22
  Not that I think we haven't, but you never know. But I love that we are together on this journey,
• 5:29
  not only as that I get to be your client, and you're my mentor, and also we are friends. And
• 5:36
  I really appreciate how you've been there for me throughout this. And so let me know whatever you
• 5:44
  feel comfortable sharing, Danielle about. Yeah, I'm open book. Okay, cool. Because I'm, yeah,
• 5:51
  I'm gonna just jump right in and say up until, you know, a certain point in my life, yes,
• 5:56
  I experienced grief. It was the, when I was very little, there were,
• 6:08
  it's just very interesting, because when I was very little, there were little children who had
• 6:13
  died. And, and I, wow, it's just saying that right now, like, huh, I remember my first remembrance
• 6:23
  of someone passing away was my mom's uncle. And, and I, I was on a walk with some family,
• 6:31
  and I ran to the house, and she was crying, because she had just found out. And I remember
• 6:36
  being little four year old, consoling her. And that has never left me. And then,
• 6:45
  throughout my life, it has been the times when, of course, our relatives, our family, our friends,
• 6:56
  they, they, they get older, and they pass away. And it's kind of the natural progression, right?
• 7:03
  And it's just the going through the funeral and the grieving. Yes, exactly the circle of life.
• 7:09
  Once in a while, there would be something, there was a girl that, and this was when I was in my
• 7:15
  early twenties, and we had just become friends. And, and she had gotten very sick. And she had
• 7:22
  died suddenly, and she was only 23 years old. And I felt so devastated. And it's interesting when
• 7:28
  people make judgments on you. And I think maybe I'm just going to jump right into the judgments
• 7:33
  other people make when you're grieving. Because I was there, just, I was very sad. And, and all
• 7:39
  I got from people were, well, you just knew, you just met her, like, basically, what's wrong with
• 7:43
  you? Get yourself together. And I'm sure I was grieving. How dare you have feelings? How, well,
• 7:50
  how dare you care about someone after only knowing them for just a little bit? And, right? I was like,
• 7:55
  okay. Conversely, I had a piano teacher. Oh, Sister St. Augustine, I wish I had stuck with
• 8:04
  the piano. But she's such a lovely soul. And I visited her from time to time. And she lived to
• 8:09
  be a hundred. And then she, she passed shortly thereafter. And I remember being very, very sad
• 8:17
  about it. I'll say upset. And then someone said to me, what's basically what's wrong with you? She
• 8:21
  lived to be a hundred. What are you upset about? I mean, in quite so many words. And, and I, I kind
• 8:28
  of preface the, the, what I really am here talking about is there are moments, and then there are
• 8:39
  moments that are in that forever realm. And I experienced that on the morning of March 28, 2024.
• 8:54
  The night before, I was at the Ball of America. The reason I say that is because I was having
• 8:58
  such a fun day. Because I didn't realize that at the Lego store, they had these build and take,
• 9:05
  you could build a little, they had a little car, you could build a little car. I'm like,
• 9:07
  what are you kidding me? It's like the greatest day ever. It's just, you know, random thing. And
• 9:11
  then I went up to the Crayola store. And I bought some, my, my youngest brother asked me if I could
• 9:17
  get him, I think they were some, some markers. I'm like, sure. I got the markers. And I was all
• 9:21
  excited, you know, such a great day. And I was especially excited about the Legos. And I couldn't
• 9:26
  wait to tell my younger brother, he lived in Florida, by the time I got home, it was really
• 9:29
  late at night. But I was telling it to my youngest brother, I said, Oh, my gosh, it's so cool about
• 9:33
  Legos. I can't wait to tell Cort. And the morning and the next morning, Theron, my youngest brother
• 9:38
  woke me up and said, on my brother Cort's Apple phone, it said that he had suffered a fall.
• 9:48
  And he was not getting up. And I do find technology. So amazing. The paramedics were
• 9:57
  called from the Apple watch. Wow. In fact, as a friend was driving over to check the ambulance
• 10:03
  was already on its way to the hospital. On that morning, my brother, yeah, I just really think
• 10:10
  it is. And, and I think I'll add to that, that caused one of my relatives to then get an Apple
• 10:19
  watch. And one of his children had been begging him to get one for that very purpose. And you know
• 10:25
  what? There you go. It's, it was, my brother dropped his wife off to go she was going on a trip.
• 10:36
  And he kissed her goodbye. And this was very early in the morning. And then he went and took care of
• 10:40
  their animals on he they had a ranch in Florida. And he went inside to make a cup of coffee. And
• 10:47
  that is where he was found. And they took him to the hospital. And at that time, we were already
• 10:53
  making plans to drive or to fly to Florida. Because we didn't know. And then his father in law
• 11:04
  had to tell us that he died. And the first word out of my mouth was no, no, no, no. And I ran out
• 11:12
  of the house. And and it's interesting, I can say that without I just and so that's those are those
• 11:24
  are some facts. Some feelings were that I hadn't my family, we are very close family. In fact,
• 11:34
  I got to talk to my brother court just about every day, just about every day he would call it was
• 11:37
  awesome. But we didn't really talk about deep things. Because I was going through some really
• 11:40
  stupid financial stuff. And now here's the part where I say in January, and I don't mean to be
• 11:47
  quite so rambly. But in January of 2024, our cousin died of a sudden massive heart attack.
• 11:56
  And I had one of the most beautiful conversations I think I could ever have with someone. And it was
• 12:01
  very it felt like how could I even do this. But as I told my brother, because he was with the rest
• 12:11
  of my family, my youngest brother and my parents in Florida, they were coming back that day. And
• 12:16
  after they were on the plane, I had a conversation with court. And here was here was the great
• 12:22
  confession. And it was court. I love you. I am so sorry that I have been not telling you things
• 12:28
  about my life, because I felt embarrassed and ashamed and all the things. I said, I love you
• 12:33
  with all of my heart. I, I want so much to have deeper conversations with you. And I'm sorry that
• 12:39
  I've kept it surface and only wanted to hear about your stuff. I touched my mic. But he said, and it
• 12:46
  was so beautiful. The response was, Oh, Tif, I totally understand. I love you so much. Don't
• 12:50
  worry about it. And we will have them. And for a couple months, we had some amazing, you know,
• 12:55
  they were beautiful. And then in February, one of our cousins died. And she was 48. And she had
• 13:04
  Down syndrome. And, and I don't even know how to say that. I think that's but I and she,
• 13:11
  by all accounts, had a beautiful life. And you know, that's and I, I'm so happy. And yet,
• 13:16
  it was so strange to me that people would say, Well, she lived to be 48. And that's fair. And
• 13:20
  I just thought that's not a long time at all. I wanted her to live longer. I wanted her to
• 13:24
  be having her best life longer. And then my own beloved brother, who was 48.
• 13:32
  As far as everyone knew, he he took better care of himself than anyone I knew he had a schedule
• 13:36
  for the seasons for working out, you know, took vitamins, but there was things.
• 13:45
  And again, I know I'm kind of bringing a mishmash, but it's like all of these things,
• 13:48
  right? Like, here comes the wave of horrid feelings, because on both sides of our family,
• 13:55
  we do have heart issues. And, and it, it was so hard to, like, how could he die of a heart attack?
• 14:04
  How could how could that happen? And the why? Why? Why? The day we found out
• 14:09
  that day was the day we found out that another cousin who's only two months. Yeah. He's a month
• 14:15
  younger than my youngest brother. He was dying of cancer. And he died a couple months later.
• 14:21
  And I didn't really get to spend time with him. And, and I had a much better, more prepared,
• 14:26
  like timeline to say, but it just comes out the way it comes out sometimes. And at the end of
• 14:32
  December, another cousin, my cousin, Jennifer, who is just beautiful angel, she passed away from
• 14:40
  cancer. And you've had so much grief in your life. And there's, there's more, you know,
• 14:46
  but that's just, so I am here today to unpack a bit of some things that came up for me
• 14:55
  when my brother Court died. And I think the shock was, I couldn't even describe it. And if
• 15:08
  I were to say one first thing, I can understand how if someone hears that another person has passed
• 15:19
  away, has died, that it can go one of two ways. They can either be there for you or not there
• 15:28
  for you. And there could be a lot of judgment, you know, like how could so-and-so, especially
• 15:36
  if you see it on a peripheral, but all I can say is you just don't know what you don't know.
• 15:44
  And you, and it's just, it's just hard to, it's hard to understand how, like, how can you be
• 15:53
  there for everybody all the time? Well, you can be compassionate all the time. You can't
• 15:59
  necessarily be there to support people all the time, but you can always be compassionate.
• 16:03
  And I think this is one of the things that really gets me about what I call magical thinking.
• 16:11
  I hope this is okay to talk about on your podcast, Tif. I happen to be a nihilistic atheist,
• 16:19
  and a lot of people hear that. They're like, oh my goodness, you must be so cynical. I'm like, no,
• 16:23
  I just, I live in a world, the way that I see things is that the universe is chaotic and there
• 16:32
  is no rhyme or reason other than, you know, like physics rhyme or reason. Like I don't,
• 16:37
  I'm not particularly spiritual. I'm not, I don't ascribe to any sort of religions. And I have a
• 16:43
  lot of religious friends and it's, I don't have a problem with it. But for me, it just doesn't
• 16:47
  make sense because there is so much grief and there is so much pain. And I see people trying
• 16:53
  to make meaning out of it. And I see them doing more damage than good. You know, we desperately,
• 16:57
  we want to create meaning. We're pattern makers. You know, we always want to feel like there's a,
• 17:02
  there's a justification for pain and there often isn't. And when we don't accept that there often
• 17:09
  isn't a justification for pain, we can do things like say, oh, well, they must have deserved it.
• 17:14
  Or, you know, there's, there's people can, can do very cruel things, not because they're trying
• 17:20
  to be cruel, but because they're trying to make meaning. They're trying to make sense of the
• 17:25
  universe. And I, I understand that need. I do. I also think that we have to be very careful about
• 17:33
  the way that we phrase these things because we can do a lot of damage to people who are just in pain
• 17:39
  and all they need is a, that sucks. I'm sorry for your loss. That's all they need. They don't need
• 17:45
  a lecture about how they're supposed to handle it. They don't need any of that. They just need
• 17:50
  someone to go. We may never know why we may never, you know, and, and it's not fair and that's okay.
• 17:58
  It's okay that it's not fair, you know, and that's hard. That's hard to accept. That's hard to hear
• 18:04
  from. Yes. It's hard to hear and it's hard to accept, but I think, I think it's the only way
• 18:09
  to be truly compassionate because there is so much pain and horrible feelings and, and, and violence
• 18:16
  in the world. And if we try to create this little rose colored universe where everything makes sense
• 18:26
  and only bad people have bad things happen to them. At, you know, at some point you're going to
• 18:32
  do a lot of damage because that's just not, it's just not the way the world works. And, you know,
• 18:38
  you can say God works in mysterious ways. That's fine. I'm okay with that because that's a mystery
• 18:41
  and we don't understand it and that's fine. But trying to make sense of it, like trying to make
• 18:49
  someone deserve something bad that's happened to them. No one deserves that period. I don't care
• 18:55
  how, you know, rude or, you know, inconsiderate you are, or even mean you are. There are certain
• 19:04
  things that human beings just don't deserve and they go through all the time. No one deserves
• 19:12
  huge amounts of pain. No one deserves to have their life cut short. No one deserves that.
• 19:18
  And I get really angry with people who, and I understand that it's because they're just trying
• 19:23
  to make sense of their world, but I'm kind of like, if you're, you're only allowed to do those
• 19:30
  kind of things if you do no harm, you know, and if you're going to harm someone else, then,
• 19:34
  then don't do it. That's kind of how I feel about that.
• 19:40
  Well said. I am, I am spiritual. I, I do, I do believe in, and how do you say it, you know,
• 19:50
  God, spirit. And also, and also, I, I find it very strange that we are told so many different
• 20:04
  things about how we got here and what we're here for. And one of them being that, okay,
• 20:10
  and here's some of the, well, you came down here and you, like, you specifically chose your mom
• 20:15
  and dad, you specifically chose them to use specific lessons and you came down here. And
• 20:19
  I've got a couple questions on that because I can't tell you how many people I've talked to
• 20:26
  that were like, even if we have been told that we're like, you know, I signed up for this,
• 20:32
  really? Like we came on the planet at this time for the what now?
• 20:37
  And I mean, you are, you and I are reasonably lucky. How do you say that to a child who was
• 20:40
  abused? How do you say that they chose their parents? See, exactly. Like that's, that's,
• 20:45
  so I, I can't, and I find it and now going through, going through a level of grief that
• 20:53
  I was not prepared for. And I know, I'm not sure that you could be prepared. And in fact,
• 20:59
  um, a lovely person that I I've talked to that her brother died through an illness. And we just
• 21:06
  said, basically it's, it, it, it didn't matter if someone left suddenly or if someone left
• 21:16
  slower, real, it's just still, it's always hard. It's always hard. It's always going to be hard.
• 21:21
  And when I, I, for a time, and again, I'm doing my best to, um, cause again, I had,
• 21:30
  I had a lovely, like lyrical storyline on this, but then that just all got chopped up. But,
• 21:35
  um, I got to a point where I felt I had a temporary, I had temporary Tourette's syndrome.
• 21:45
  And I'm not saying that to be funny. I could not stop swearing. I just, it just could not.
• 21:52
  And I mean that with loving reverence to, to people who have Tourette's syndrome, because
• 21:58
  not being able to control. Um, I said so many, I said the F word so many times. I just, it just,
• 22:06
  I would just shout it out, just out loud at just certain, certain moments. And,
• 22:12
  and at this time when my brother Court died, I could not,
• 22:17
  you know, there wasn't anything to, as you say, you know, the, as people might say, sugar coat it,
• 22:26
  you know, like, or try to find the silver lining, what silver lining is. And what I came up was it
• 22:33
  effing sucks. It's effing sucks. Yeah. That was my mantra. It just, there was nothing. You could
• 22:41
  not console me. I cannot be, it's just, and I said that and I came up with that because
• 22:50
  what do you say to someone when someone dies? And I am feeling the smallest form of gratitude that
• 23:02
  I never tried to say any of the things all I could say to people was, I am so sorry. I don't
• 23:08
  know what to say. I am so sorry for your loss. That was what I said. And now I've added to it
• 23:16
  and I just say, I hope it's okay for me to say it effing sucks. And that has gotten a pretty
• 23:26
  actually, um, it's got an interesting response and that people have really responded to it.
• 23:32
  I went to, um, a, a funeral and this beautiful angelic girl who had lost her parents. She,
• 23:44
  I came up to her and, and I, I gave her a hug and she looked at me and she smiled and she said,
• 23:51
  and I did say, I said, Oh honey, I love you so much. I am so sorry. I wish I had anything to,
• 23:57
  any words I could say to you. And she said, and you know what? It effing sucks. Like that came,
• 24:04
  you know, she didn't say effing, she said it, but it just, and, and I just, I, I, in that moment,
• 24:14
  thought, wow, having permission to say that because what upsets, what has upset me
• 24:25
  so much has been the people, let me tell you how I feel and how you're going to feel about this.
• 24:32
  And there have been so many instances and then they get compounded by the stuff I've heard other
• 24:42
  people say that I didn't realize, as you said, how damaging they are until you're, because I'll,
• 24:51
  I'll just back up and say, you know what? I would rather be in, and I'm not, I'm doing better.
• 24:57
  I would rather have horrible finances, have my life be absolutely whatever, because the thing
• 25:02
  I was able to lean back on was, Hey, but my family's healthy. So what do I care? You know,
• 25:06
  like life is great. And then when court died, well, that's gone. And I, and hearing people
• 25:16
  say stuff like things happen for a reason. Now, or I guess I'm just going to go into just a few
• 25:30
  things, people that I would recommend. Don't say to someone who someone they love has died.
• 25:35
  Please don't say everything happens for a reason. Please don't say, even if they had been, well,
• 25:42
  they're not suffering anymore. Yes. We are. I get that. And maybe there's some things that people
• 25:48
  like, well, what's wrong with saying that? Or I say that all the time. Okay. Well, I mean,
• 25:51
  it depends on how much the person was suffering. You know, I mean, I would say that to someone who
• 25:55
  was, who had been suffering for many years. I would say that because my dad, I had the privilege of,
• 26:02
  of providing end of life care with my sister for my dad. And he was miserable the last three years
• 26:09
  of his life. And it was, it was an, at least he's not suffering anymore then, but you got to be
• 26:17
  careful. Don't assume. Well, I appreciate how, thank you. So this is again, why I wanted to talk
• 26:23
  to you about this. Cause I appreciate as, as I talk things out loud and different perspective,
• 26:28
  I think also tonality. Oh yeah. There's a challenge. Yeah. There's a challenge because
• 26:34
  I actually just learned at a workshop that most of the time, pretty much the vast majority of time,
• 26:42
  we do not hear fully our tonality. Like most of the time we don't hear it at all.
• 26:49
  And I was really glad I learned that kind of wish I'd learned that several years ago,
• 26:53
  but that's okay. Just from a scientific, like fascinating standpoint,
• 26:57
  because there's a difference saying, you know, I'm so, I'm so sorry.
• 27:03
  It it's, you know, they're, they're not suffering anymore as opposed to say, well,
• 27:07
  they're not suffering anymore. So what are you crying about? I mean, there are just, it's amazing.
• 27:12
  You know what the difference is. You can hear your tonality, but it requires an amount of self
• 27:18
  awareness and presence. And I think that's the thing is people just want to be pat. They just,
• 27:22
  they just want to, they just want to get comfortable again. They don't want to deal with you.
• 27:26
  And, you know, it is this kind of, this, this kind of social agreement that we don't talk
• 27:31
  about anything, you know, too deep or too serious. So when someone comes with real raw emotions,
• 27:36
  some people just try to shut them down as quickly as possible. And that can be one of the things you
• 27:40
  can say, at least they're not suffering anymore. Let's start, let's talk about something else.
• 27:42
  Let's talk about something nice and happy and surface level. If you allow yourself to just
• 27:48
  connect with the person first, make eye contact, breathe with them. Don't rush to say anything.
• 27:56
  And even if they're not speaking, just listen to them first, listen to their energy,
• 27:59
  listen to their body, take them in, get connected. Chances of you saying something wrong are very
• 28:06
  low at that point. It's when we were speaking without thinking about them. We're not checking
• 28:13
  in with them. We're not connecting with them in any way. We're just going, I want this conversation
• 28:18
  to be over. And I'm going to say whatever I have to, to try and get it to be over and to move on
• 28:23
  as quickly as possible. That is what most people do. And so if you can just connect, just, just
• 28:30
  take a few seconds, take them in, look at them, look them in the eye, connect, breathe with them,
• 28:38
  get present. And then speaking from your heart, you're probably not going to say the wrong thing.
• 28:43
  And even if you do, if you say something that could potentially be triggering, either you'll
• 28:49
  say it in a way that isn't, or you'll see it in their face and you'll be able to correct it really
• 28:55
  quickly, you know, because you're connected with them. The problem is, is that we are so scared
• 28:59
  of emotions. We're so scared of our emotionality. We are so scared of negative emotions as a society
• 29:04
  in general, that people just want to run away. They want to shut it down. And this is, I think,
• 29:10
  is what is sick with our society, because you cannot, you cannot connect on a human level with
• 29:18
  people if you, if you're committed to that surface level. I mean, that's, now that I say it out loud,
• 29:23
  obviously you can't, you know, we, human beings, we're, we're, we're feeling emotional beings.
• 29:31
  And why are we walking around, insisting on only conversing, only interacting with
• 29:40
  the surface, not really interesting level of people to keep ourselves safe. I don't want
• 29:47
  to live a safe life. I want to live an alive life. I want to live a connected life. I want to actually
• 29:53
  experience the people that I have in my life. And sure, on some days you can't handle it. You're
• 29:58
  dealing with your own thing. It's not that that's not okay. Of course that's okay. You need to have
• 30:03
  emotional boundaries. But I think most of the time people are just trying to stay comfortable.
• 30:09
  And the thing is though, when you're walking around feeling comfortable,
• 30:14
  you're also walking around at like 20% sensation. You're not feeling, you're not alive. You're just
• 30:19
  going through the motions. You're, you're an automaton, an autopilot, just marking time.
• 30:27
  You're not living life. So what's the point? Can I, can I, can I read something to you
• 30:35
  quickly? I would love it. No, read it slowly. I'll read it slowly. So I, again, I have had
• 30:42
  my version of grief, but I also want to, you know, I've, I've had a lot of depression and
• 30:49
  suicidal ideation and that kind of thing in my life. And and most of my friends,
• 30:54
  us, us emotional delinquents kind of tend to come together. And my family wasn't very good
• 31:02
  at dealing with that kind of stuff. But my mom gave me a little pocketbook of The Prophet by
• 31:08
  Khalil Gibran when I was a teenager. And that book helped a lot. There's a couple of particular,
• 31:15
  certain particular poems that really helped, but I just wanted to read this. I'm not going to read
• 31:21
  the whole thing, but so if you don't know The Prophet, it's it's a bunch of little, little
• 31:26
  poems on different different areas of life. And this one is on sorrow, on joy and sorrow. Sorry.
• 31:35
  Actually, I'm going to, I'm going to start from the beginning. So then a woman said,
• 31:39
  speak to us of joy and sorrow. And he answered, your joy is your sorrow unmasked. And the self
• 31:46
  same well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears. And how else
• 31:52
  can it be? The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.
• 32:00
  Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?
• 32:06
  And is not the lute that soothes your spirit the very wood that was hollowed with knives?
• 32:13
  When you are joyous, look deep into your heart, and you shall find that it is only that which
• 32:18
  has given you sorrow that is giving you joy. When you are sorrowful, look again into your heart,
• 32:23
  and you shall see that that in truth, you are weeping for that, which has been your delight.
• 32:30
  And I there's more, but that's all I want to say, because it's so I think, we try to we try
• 32:36
  to separate the emotions, but like, I'm only going to experience happy emotions. You can't.
• 32:41
  Human beings are complicated, our emotions are intertwined, and it is impossible to separate
• 32:47
  them completely. If you're going to be an emotional, alive person, joy, and sorrow, and
• 32:53
  grief, and love, and all of those things, they are, they are the same thing. Because if you didn't love
• 33:00
  someone, you wouldn't grieve them. And it is so important to remember that when we are going
• 33:09
  through pain, it is because we are capable of joy. And the other way around. That really helped me
• 33:14
  because I could understand the need to carve the cup, you know. And it was painful, but it was,
• 33:26
  it felt necessary. And I think we're so complex. And this is what I think of as joy is not,
• 33:37
  you know, happiness versus sadness. Joy is that the experience that exquisite pain of being alive.
• 33:48
  That is joy is for me, it's that it's that experience of living, of feeling itself.
• 33:55
  For me, that's, that is a lot of what joy is for me. And I think if we can allow ourselves to
• 34:05
  to accept all of our emotions, and to honor all of them, because they're all telling you something,
• 34:11
  and they're all part of the human condition. And if we can see them in others, without being
• 34:16
  threatened. I don't know why someone else's pain is going to threaten you, or someone else's bad
• 34:22
  mood. If you, yes, we're compassionate. And yes, we're empathetic. But you should have worked on
• 34:29
  yourself enough to not be completely derailed by someone else having a bad day. What if they were
• 34:35
  having an awful day and you connected with them? And by connecting with them, you both,
• 34:39
  it eased their sorrow a little bit. Shouldn't that make your day so much better?
• 34:44
  We don't have to be worried about people bringing us down all the time.
• 34:48
  We don't need to worry about people ruining our day. We can let people in.
• 34:55
  And if letting someone in to your emotional state on a normal day, you know, obviously we have
• 35:04
  fragile days. But if letting someone in completely derails your emotional state, you have work to do,
• 35:10
  because you are not an adult. We need to be fully emotionally realized beings. And we need to accept
• 35:17
  that we are going to cry, and we are going to grieve. And we are going to get angry. And we
• 35:23
  are going to get sad. And we are going to feel joy and bliss and gratitude. And those are all
• 35:30
  equally important. That's my little rant.
• 35:43
  Well, I tell you, there was a lot there. Thank you. And thank you for sharing that poem.
• 35:50
  Yeah.
• 35:53
  And it's beautiful. For me, joy is the feeling of everything. It's all the feels. Joy is all the
• 36:04
  feels. And, you know, having grown up in a big family, Christian family, happy to say that, you
• 36:17
  And also, I feel in, and I'm going to really broaden it out to society, I might start with
• 36:30
  American society, that we have a horrible grief culture. I'm just going to say it right now.
• 36:36
  It sucks. How about it effing sucks? It really does.
• 36:41
  I feel like that is the slogan for this episode.
• 36:45
  It effing sucks.
• 36:48
  Mm hmm.
• 36:49
  I've seen, I had to dig, I had to dig. I admit, I do appreciate social media, seeing things,
• 36:58
  mainly on Instagram. And people who are helping others specifically with grieving, because
• 37:06
  I felt very lost. And I think that that's, I just wonder why, why does it have to be that way?
• 37:14
  Now, I'm not saying it gets to a, oh, we have a nice, oh, someone died. And you go through these
• 37:18
  steps. And everything is, I'm not saying that. However, there are a few things it would have
• 37:23
  been nice to know. Just to know how to, and mainly to help understand what other people are going
• 37:33
  through in a general sense. Because if you go through it yourself, well, that is just a whole
• 37:38
  different, it's just a whole different game. And I've said it before, and I'll say it many times,
• 37:45
  I would have rather been the blissfully ignorant, or maybe not so blissfully at times,
• 37:50
  ignorant mess that I was, and still have my brother. Like, it's hard, even sometimes to
• 37:57
  hear people say, when my spouse died, or when this, but now, and it's just my interpretation,
• 38:05
  but it's just, it's just hard, because I just think, well, that's great that you grew in all
• 38:08
  of that. And I don't want to grow. I don't want to, my, my happy ever after is shattered for this
• 38:16
  lifetime, thank you. He died early. He died suddenly. I don't have him here. And it effing
• 38:22
  sucks. But also, I am still here. And I, I, I'm living, or am I alive? And I just find it,
• 38:36
  it's been interesting to process how to keep on having great days. And the best that I can say it
• 38:44
  that over time, but that's another thing too, even with someone who,
• 38:52
  talking to someone who lost their spouse, like 20 years ago, and, and they just say,
• 38:57
  oh, just give it time. And I'm just like, I hear that from people. And it's very hard, because all
• 39:05
  I can say is for me, now my life is on a different track. Like it was on a track. Absolutely. The
• 39:11
  death happened. And, and depending on who it is, and when and where and those things,
• 39:19
  you either are a little off, or maybe the path, I could say you're on the path.
• 39:24
  And either you go on a slightly different path, or you are an entirely different path,
• 39:29
  entirely different path. And there, there are great days still for me to be had and joy,
• 39:37
  and love and laughter. And also, it is on a different path. It can't, can't ever be the way
• 39:45
  it was. Well, and I think that's what grief is, is accepting that your life will never be the same.
• 39:53
  And it's not that there isn't another happily ever after for you, because happily ever after
• 39:57
  isn't a once off thing. There will be a happily ever after for you. It won't be the one that you
• 40:03
  were expecting. And I think, I believe that our lives get shattered, often more than once,
• 40:14
  multiple times as we live. And everything, you know, you're like, how can I carry on?
• 40:21
  I'm not the person I was yesterday. And I don't think that's, in itself, I don't think that's
• 40:28
  bad. It's traumatic. And you know, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that tragedy is good at all.
• 40:35
  I think it's neutral. I think it's just it is what it is. And I think one of the beautiful
• 40:44
  things about humans is how resilient we are. It is very important to grieve, and to acknowledge
• 40:50
  that grief, because if we don't, we hold on to it forever. And we never, we never grow.
• 40:55
  And I don't think we ever let go of the people who are important to us. I think we integrate them,
• 41:02
  and we learn to make that grief a part of us, and part of our new lives. And we reshape our path,
• 41:09
  and we find a new path, and we find a different happy ever after. Not the same. And I don't think
• 41:17
  you can compare these things like apples to oranges, you know. But at the same time, I do think
• 41:25
  that, and it's easy for people, you know, like, when it's been 20 years later, and they have
• 41:31
  found their happy again, it's easy to kind of pat go, oh, we'll give it time. Because they're,
• 41:36
  they're there. And they're in their new happy ever after. And they want to console you. They
• 41:42
  want to be like, it's going to be okay. But the point is, it doesn't feel like it's going to be
• 41:47
  okay now. And it's okay to feel like it's not going to be okay. Even if you know it is. It's okay to
• 41:53
  feel like it's not. And rushing someone in that process is doing them an injustice. Because we
• 41:59
  need, and everyone takes a different amount of time. And everyone does it differently. And
• 42:05
  everyone shapes their life in their own way. But it's important to honor that. Not to hold on to
• 42:11
  it. Not to, not to stop your life. But it is important to grieve what you thought you had.
• 42:20
  And that is as true. And I'm not putting these on the same level. But that is as true when someone's
• 42:26
  heart is broken. Or when you lose somebody or you know, whatever the big life event is,
• 42:34
  a resetting of self is resetting of self. And it is important to grieve what you thought was going
• 42:41
  to be the future. Because that is no longer the future. And you have to integrate that you have
• 42:46
  to accept that in order to move on. So I think, you know, people mean well. But they don't remember.
• 42:54
  It's difficult to remember that pain. I mean, even now, here, and I know that I've been,
• 43:01
  I have been depressive and suicidal ideation for most of my life, more than half of my life.
• 43:08
  And even that, even knowing that I'm finding it hard to bring up that feeling right now. Because
• 43:14
  that's not where I am right now. And it's a difficult feeling. It's not something I want to,
• 43:19
  not something I really want to try out. So it's something that's very difficult to relate to
• 43:24
  on like a really deep level. Because I'm not feeling it at this moment. And even though I know
• 43:29
  that, you know, I'm very familiar with it. I can't bring it up right now. I mean, I'm sure I could
• 43:37
  if I tried hard enough, but I don't want to. But you know, so it's it was a when we're interacting
• 43:42
  with someone who's going through something, even if we've gone through it, that distance between
• 43:47
  where they are and where we are. I think it's important that we acknowledge that and not just
• 43:52
  kind of go, Oh, well, it'll be fine. Acknowledge that they're there somewhere that you maybe can't
• 43:58
  comprehend. Even if you've experienced it, you may not be able to comprehend it in this moment.
• 44:04
  Or, you know, you may not be capable of feeling it right now. And that's fine. But acknowledge that.
• 44:10
  I think it's all about we all we just want everyone to be the same as us. We want everyone
• 44:16
  to feel we want to be so comfortable. And yeah, it's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay to not
• 44:21
  know what to say. It's okay to just sit and breathe and cry with someone. It's okay to just
• 44:28
  hold their hand. It's okay to just go. That effing sucks. I can't help you. I wish I could.
• 44:34
  But I can be here and I can listen. Is that enough? And it's okay to not be enough
• 44:44
  when someone is grieving and it's okay to not fix them. In fact, it's your job to not fix them.
• 44:50
  It is your job to not fix them. Everyone hear that? We want to fix everybody.
• 45:00
  If you try to fix them, you're taking away the journey that they have to go through in order
• 45:06
  to be whole again. Yeah, we want to make it better. And that's a beautiful thing. We want
• 45:10
  to fix things. We want to we want to care for people. I'm really glad that you've well, you
• 45:17
  brought up so many things. And if I were to say, having my faith shattered when Court died,
• 45:31
  I will say absolutely. And that is very hard. And again, one of the reasons I so appreciate
• 45:41
  our talk today is because it's not that I thought I had anything figured out,
• 45:49
  but there's some raw stuff under there still. And dare I say, and here the tears are coming,
• 45:57
  it's almost embarrassing to me. And I'm not saying, oh, well, a certain amount of time you
• 46:04
  will, because I can only liken it to a tsunami when the grief, like ding, ding, ding. And here
• 46:13
  it is. And this might be a bit of a, I'm not sure if it's a non sequitur, but I was at a
• 46:28
  because I'm just thinking about the stuff is coming up and I'm like, what? I haven't processed
• 46:32
  this yet. What is it ever? What is it ever going to get to a point? Because I went to Hay House has
• 46:37
  a writer's bootcamp, which I highly recommend. It's awesome. And there is a Hay House author
• 46:42
  and her name is Nancy Levin. And she's amazing. And she gave a quote from a woman named,
• 46:51
  I hope I'm saying her name right, Nadia Boltz Weber. And it's right from the scar and not the
• 46:58
  wound. And yes. And I get that. They say that to speakers too. Oh, okay. Cool. And right now I
• 47:08
  feel like I'm speaking from a wound and I'm writing from a wound. And so I appreciate anyone who's
• 47:15
  listening to this for, I just wanted to start a conversation because along the lines of,
• 47:25
  thank you for talking about being comfortable. It's almost as if people want to wrap grief up
• 47:30
  in this little attractive package and you can't do it. Grief is so ugly, messy, disgusting,
• 47:38
  gross. It's hideous. It's abhorrent. It's obnoxious. And it effing sucks. And,
• 47:46
  and I really, again, would have rather never had to have gotten to that point
• 47:52
  where I can see things from a different, but just to be able to understand that people,
• 47:58
  as, as you so eloquently put, like, do not try to fix people, let people grieve,
• 48:04
  give them permission to go through what they need to go through. And, and if, however, if,
• 48:14
  if you are, if you are a follower of a faith or if you're not, there are still,
• 48:21
  I feel many beautiful things that you can do for people. And thank you for bringing,
• 48:27
  like, I think the number one, and I am still learning this is to ask.
• 48:31
  And also, I truly want to make sure to say this. I have a very, I have a very insightful friend
• 48:39
  who, when she found out, she did reach out to me and I found this to be so absolutely
• 48:48
  amazing. She said, Tif, I love you with all of my heart. I cannot help you. Like she just,
• 48:54
  I can't. And when she said, I can't be there for you. I said, I'm so sorry. She was going
• 48:59
  through her own. She is going through grief on her own. And she said, but please know that I
• 49:05
  am sending you love. I absolutely love you. And if you truly need to call someone to talk to,
• 49:10
  yes, of course. But I thought that was so wonderful because I think it's a wonderful
• 49:18
  thing to say to people what I can offer. And if someone can't offer something, I mean, that
• 49:24
  meant so much to me because she was brave enough to say, I got nothing. I just got,
• 49:32
  it's just, it ain't there, but I love you. And those were not mutually exclusive. It's,
• 49:38
  I absolutely love you. And also I can't be here for you. And maybe that brings me to another,
• 49:47
  um, if I were to say that to those of us who are grieving and it is a challenge, I know
• 49:55
  up on all the other channels, because people are like, Oh, call me when you need something.
• 49:59
  And they're not doing it because they're being flippant. They just, they truly like,
• 50:02
  there's so many people now you might find out a couple of people are just saying it to say it,
• 50:07
  but there are people who are, you know, when you need something, I'm here,
• 50:11
  please do your very best to take them up on that. Because my, my best friend, Terri,
• 50:18
  my bestie Terri, uh, with an I, and she lives about 10 minutes from me. I don't know how I
• 50:24
  would have survived, how I would have survived without her being there. And that was quite,
• 50:31
  and here's the tears, quite the burden that I put on her.
• 50:38
  And I would also like to say, if possible, if you do mean it and you say, you know,
• 50:46
  I don't know how to help, but call me if you need anything. I would say, if at all possible,
• 50:51
  when someone is in deep in grief or, or deep in depression or deep in anything,
• 50:54
  it's very difficult to think of what you need. Yeah. So if you could say, I have the impulse
• 51:02
  to do this, or I would really like to do this thing, but I don't want to impose, could I do
• 51:08
  one of these things for you? Or, or is there something else I could do? Give them some ideas.
• 51:14
  Because also, you know, people say, call me if you need anything, but then you're like,
• 51:17
  yeah, but I do need this thing, but it's, I don't think it's what they meant. And you know,
• 51:22
  it can get, it can get so you can get so much in your head. And then you often just don't reach
• 51:25
  out because the thing that you need isn't really, they didn't actually offer. And you're not sure
• 51:30
  so much. So instead kind of go, look, I want to help. I don't know how to help. These are my ideas
• 51:36
  of how to help. Are any of those useful? Do you need space? Do you want me to call you every day
• 51:42
  and just check in? Do you want me to leave you alone for a week? Like, what do you want? How
• 51:46
  can I help? Give them some suggestions because it is so hard. It's kind of putting the onus on
• 51:51
  them. It's making them do more work. Like, oh God, now I have to think of what will happen,
• 51:55
  what might help. And that is so much work. So give them some ideas. Like,
• 52:00
  this is what I think would help, but I don't know. I'm not you. Would any of these things be a good
• 52:05
  idea or, or, or is there something else that you can think of? You know, if you can give them some
• 52:11
  ideas, it really, it takes the load off of them a little bit. And that's really what you want to do.
• 52:17
  That's what you're trying to do. If you're a good friend, you're trying to take the load
• 52:20
  off a little bit. So take the mental load off too, that it can help so much.
• 52:28
  And sometimes all someone needs is like a text message. Sometimes they really want some space,
• 52:32
  but they just want to know they're loved. So you could just text them, I love you every day.
• 52:36
  You don't know what it is and everybody is different. So ask and be open to the thing
• 52:43
  that you wanting to give not being the right thing as well. I have a few friends, bless them.
• 52:48
  They're wonderful people, but I have a few more than one friend who they want to help in their way.
• 52:55
  And if you don't want that, and I was like, but I thought this was about helping me.
• 53:00
  And then it becomes a fight because they're like, well, I wanted to do this nice thing for you. And
• 53:04
  you're like, but that's not going to help me. That's, you know, so it's not about you. It's
• 53:08
  about them. If it truly is about them, listen to them, give them suggestions, but listen,
• 53:15
  because yeah, that can be, it can turn into a fight really fast when you're the one who is
• 53:21
  already so low and they're trying to impose their idea of what might help to you. That's not always
• 53:28
  the right thing to do. No. And then as you say, conversely, when you give options, when you just
• 53:34
  offer, even just to say, I don't know, but I'm here. That is so faith affirming. Talk about
• 53:42
  reinstilling faith in, in, in someone's heart. And, and I, I so appreciate, so appreciate this
• 53:52
  conversation and you know what, I think we might need to carry it over. So, so I think,
• 53:57
  may I, may I make a little suggestion? Absolutely. I feel like we've spent this entire,
• 54:02
  not this entire episode. I feel like this episode has very much been about honoring your feelings,
• 54:07
  how to help someone who is in distress, what not to do. I would love in our next episode to talk
• 54:14
  about how you can help yourself when you are in this kind of place, because we've talked a lot
• 54:21
  about, you know, honoring your emotions, which is extremely important, but it is only step one.
• 54:25
  And so let's talk about what comes next. So when you are ready to start looking at maybe
• 54:35
  making some healthy changes or you want to start things moving or whatever,
• 54:38
  let's talk about that in the next episode, because this episode has been very much about the wound
• 54:44
  and advice for people who are experiencing people in distress, which is extremely important.
• 54:50
  I would like to talk about how to, like, how to, how to start getting yourself,
• 54:55
  when you're ready, how to start getting yourself. I like that. I might have a couple other things
• 55:00
  to wrap up from, but yes, I like, I like the, there might be just a couple more what not to
• 55:05
  do's that I forgot, but I love, what can I say, Danielle? But I, I'm still in her wound. I'm in
• 55:12
  my scar. You're in your wound. Right. And also I love that. And thank you. That is definitely
• 55:18
  excellent for the next episode. Wonderful. All right. Well, we'll see you in the next one.