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Michigan budget provides a boost to public transportation · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jeff Cranston.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: This week I wanted to talk about some components in the fiscal year 26 Michigan budget that will help public transportation.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's more money for transit.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to say right now specifically how much until there is an estimated conference where a number of people get together and see what they can come up with as a consensus for how much revenue will be coming in.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: But we know it will be more, both for the operations for various transit agencies around the state and for some capital improvements.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: A longtime advocate for transit, former member of the Rapid Board in Kent County, which serves six different cities that all have all contribute to a millage to support it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: David Bukowski, he's also the executive director of disability advocates of Kent County, meaning that he spends a lot of time helping raise money to help people with various disabilities so that they have more freedom and more mobility.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he talks about how transportation pretty much is at the center of everything that they do and a lot of their advocacy and why it's so important.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you enjoy the conversation.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So David Blukowski, repeat visitor to the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, and I know at least occasional listener because I get feedback occasionally.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for making a return.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh before we launch into what this recently passed FY26 budget in Michigan means to public transportation and a lot of the causes you advocate for, remind people a little bit of your background and how you came to disability advocates of Kent County.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um I've been at Disability Advocates for just 30 and a half years.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I started as the Disability Rights Coordinator and uh became the executive director and been hanging out here.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And advocacy for public transportation and public accessibility has always been at the center of what we do.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just telling somebody the story this morning that my very first day on the job, there was a follow-up meeting, as you know, Jeff, but probably a few of the listeners, GRATA, Grand Rapids Area Transit Authority, was the precursor to the Rapid, which is our current authority.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: And four guys who were wheelchair users sued GRADA for their lack of Americans with Disabilities Act compliance.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I I used that lawsuit from before I got here as the true turning point in our community's perspective on transit.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: It still took a while for things to get better, and we're still working to make things better.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: But that was the first time somebody took transit serious enough that they actually went to federal court to get the Americans with Disabilities Act enforced.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was a good wake-up call for our community, and we keep trying to do that.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, how many years from the time that the ADA was signed into law was it that they brought that lawsuit?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm trying to put the timeline together because Grata uh was reconstituted as the Interurban Transit Agency/ Rapid.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like somewhere around that same time, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, that that happened in the year 2000 when the first Rapid Millage was successful.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, not to sound like an attorney, which I should have disclosed that I am, um Grata totally disbanded and and transferred all its assets and liabilities to the Rapid or ITP, and that's you know, who continues to exist today.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed in 1990, and people had two years to come into compliance.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: So 1992, January of that year was the effective date.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: So two years later, Grata still hadn't had basic compliance um with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so again, these four guys um found an attorney and and successfully sued Grata.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So uh talk about what informs your passion for this topic.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know uh there was uh some overlap with a group called Faith in Motion in Kent County.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um you've got counterparts all over the state, you're very plugged into um things legislatively.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, you're you work for a group that has Kent County in the name, but you're obviously an advocate for people with disabilities on a universal basis.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about where that comes from.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean the biggest thing is so when I talk about public transportation, a lot of times we think it's for those people.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And who are those people?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we label those people as like the poor, the seniors, and people with disabilities, folks who can't afford their own vehicle or you know, can't drive for various reasons.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: But instead of talking about those people, I talk about my family and friends.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's who use public transportation.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, and and a lot of my coworkers here at Disability Advocates.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I know firsthand how good public transportation can be a total game changer in somebody's life.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, getting to, I'm laughing because one of my favorite stories is a buddy of mine who uses GoBus actually went to a concert um down at Van Andel Arena shortly after um transit went from six o'clock at night and was extended to 11 p.m.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: But the show, the guy kept doing um encores, and and so he missed his GoBus ride home.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's our paratransit.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: But the good news, Mark Mark is ambulatory, so he was able to call a cab.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: He may have to wait a long time, but he got that's way before Uber and Lyft and all those things.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, he was able to get home.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't have to sleep downtown.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: But again, it's that passion of just how are we all helping each other be part of community?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: That that's the key.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um and I start sounding like a snake oil salesman when it comes to public transportation, because as I like to say, public transportation is almost no one's number one issue.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: People are working on affordable housing, health care, education, um, employment, workforce development, economic development.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And again, that's what people work on.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: But public transportation helps every single one of those issues.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I think public transportation should be everybody's second issue they should work on.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: But again, it's like, but Dave, that does it cure everything?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: It almost cures everything, Jeff.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm just telling you.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, just to take the metaphor to the extreme, I guess what you're basically saying is all those things are spokes on the same wheel.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Some would call it that.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are the um what do they call them, the social determinants of health.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Transportation is one of those, you know, housing, whatever you put in the middle of the spoke, transportation's gonna be um, or whatever you put in the hub, transportation will be a spoke on that wheel.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just, yeah, it's what connects us.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: We we continue to build a world where um where we have to move sometimes great distances to just meet our basic needs.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and a great distance isn't really great if you're driving, but you know, get out, walk and roll, and a mile can be a great distance, especially if you have to cart groceries home.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, determinant of freedom, basically.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you talk about access for all or access to mobility, that's that's your that's your basic freedom.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so talk about aha moments you've had over the years when you speak to people, um potential donors, lawmakers, and Lancing, um, just just anybody about what you do and and what you call your extended family, the people that you serve.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: What do you find you know gets them gets it to click in their minds all of a sudden?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I when you start telling those again real stories, and they put the fact that that this really is about their family and friends.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I this was way back in the summer of 1997.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I've been doing this a long time, and and there was some terrible budget cuts on the federal level.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: And quickly to say there were some local leaders who said we have to do something about it.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, without boring you with all the names I remember, but they um they were every time they went to say, we have to do something for those people, they kind of winced because three of those people were in the back of the room with me.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So again, and my wife, who you know, she would always give me grief because we had an old, I would say, broken down van here at Discipline Advocates, an old-fashioned lift thing.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I would cart people around town back before we had a decent paratransit system.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so, especially evening meetings.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: A friend of mine who lives in the city of Walker, he was on his way to Walker City Hall to testify one night.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And he was actually stopped by the police because now, again, Walker, don't get me wrong, they are actually a great champion for all modes of transportation, working on things.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, y'all just cut the ribbon on the Fruit Ridge overpass, all kinds of cool stuff happening in Walker.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: But back in with non-motorized lanes, I might exactly non-motorized lanes.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so again, it's all coming together.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: But 30 years ago, the only way to get from Tom's house in Walker to Walker City Hall was to get on the gravel curb or shoulder.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: And Tom had the ability to push his wheelchair in that gravel, but the police pulled him over and said, Hey, dude, where are you going?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, I'm going to City Hall.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And they said, We kind of recommend you turn around and go home because it's dark and people can't see you and and and so, anyways, those kinds of stories that he couldn't even get to City Hall to exercise his First Amendment rights.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then some, that's the thing, you know.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, business lead.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: When business people speak to the issue, that that really opens people's perspectives because it's not, it's not me.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had elected people say, Dave, we know what your people need.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, I don't have any people, but that's how people characterize it.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's like, oh my gosh, a business owner needs public transportation to get his employees here.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: We got to do something about it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that one thing that resonated with me a few years back, uh, person um from Branch County where I grew up was there advocating for services before a committee because his elderly mother relied on a dial ride service in a very small rural county.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I hoped what maybe broke through for some of those lawmakers who represent those rural areas is that transit isn't just in the cities, you know, that it it really isn't and and where where are we growing, you know, old at the highest rate, right?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's the rural areas of Michigan.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this mobility challenge is only going to get worse as as we go on.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he made those points very eloquently.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I the one of the reasons I want to talk to you is because Representative Jason Morgan of Ann Arbor, who is a co-chair of the transit caucus, uh has called this budget um, you know, one of the best ever for public transportation, the record amounts of money.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now the problem is, um, and that was the intention of a lot of people who advocated to get that money in there, and certainly the various chairs of the of the committees in both chambers and the governor.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: But we really don't know the extent of it yet because those numbers are still being crunched, and there's going to be a consensus revenue estimating conference, which I know is a real bureaucratic term, but it's also very important to know how much money will be coming in in January.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But let's say this plays out as a record amount of money for various transit agencies across the state.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what do you think that means, both in terms of operations and capital?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, the critical piece is that um the various authorities around the state can sustain service.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it every once in a while the Rapid will adjust routes based on what they do.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's called a um comprehensive operation analysis or COA.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember long ago, they moved like there was two miles of service that only one person used three days a week.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they moved that two miles of capacity to a place where it got used more.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that one guy called me probably a dozen times.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Every time he would see me, like either quoted in the paper, the Graphs Press andor a local TV station, he'd call me and say, But Dave, they took my service away.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, these things happen, but if if the state budget can't keep up with the local budgets and the local needs, then you have to take much harsher cuts to service.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And some systems have been doing that.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you mentioned the rural systems that um if you don't have mainline service, because only the Americans with Disabilities Act really hits mainline service the most, you know, do you start rationing rides?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so you only get eight rides instead of 10.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so this will at least sustain service.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and then it's um it's also heartening for me, and I hope the the transit agencies that that the transit champions in the legislature are becoming more active.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I mean, we had a uh coffee hour with Senate Majority Leader Brinks, end of August.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, before she got in the House, and of course that was before she got in the Senate, um, she worked at a place called the Source.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So she knows people by name who needed public transportation to go a couple extra miles into a township, and we're still working on that, but that's a different episode.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: But to say that, you know, she said to me that day, I mean, she said to everybody, but then, you know, I saw her at a different event a couple of weeks before, it's like, don't worry, Dave, transit will be in the roads package.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And to have a Senate majority leader who has that commitment, and as you mentioned, you know, the members of the House who are part of the transit caucus, that that folks are, you know, nothing against caucuses at the state capitol.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: This one, this one has results, and this one is is showing a little more assertiveness, assertiveness to to again get results for all Michigan citizens and residents.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have to ask you later what this paper is you speak of, but um I think uh the I I want to, along with those members of both chambers, uh give credit to the governor's office and some people there that really advocated for this to happen too, which is a great thing.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, it's all three House, Senate, and Governor, um, they get together and and working on this.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's still as an advocate, I don't know if I'll ever be happy with the result or but I am maybe happy is the wrong word.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know if I'll be exuberant.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very happy at this moment with, as you said, you know, we still have to figure out what it how it will all roll out, but I'm um exuberance.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're still a few billion dollars short of exuberance.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I've been the transportation funding task force with Governor Granholm, and then I think I was the only person in Michigan saying vote yes on Prop One under Governor Snyder.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we've been working to get the clear, you were part of 19.5%.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know, okay, okay.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I exaggerate.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, we continue to advocate for all mobility options because every bus except for a few, well, every bus, only a few vehicles in Michigan that are considered transit are on rail.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but every bus is on the road.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Every person who uses the bus is gonna have a last mile, first mile experience.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we need good sidewalks and other infrastructure and ability to cross, you know, be it a two-lane road, three or five-lane road, you know, so that so again, we advocate for the whole of the system.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: We we lead with public transportation, but we don't leave anybody off the table.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Please stay tuned.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be back with more talking Michigan transportation right after this.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Michigan law requires drivers to maintain at least 200 feet behind a snow plow when crews are plowing or treating roads and have their lights on.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: This does not apply when passing the snow plow.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: In addition, stay at least 20 feet away when the plow is stopped or at an intersection.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Failure to do so can result in a fine of$100.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: The log is meant to ensure snowplow operators have the proper space and time to clear the roads.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: This makes Michigan's roads and neighborhoods safer to drive on and walk around throughout the winter.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Always remember, snowplows need room to groom.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about that a little bit in terms of transportation.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean a motorized vehicle, doesn't mean getting on a bus or in an Uber, but literally just getting around, whether it's on foot or, you know, rolling, as you said.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um Grand Rapids, I think probably Grand Rapids, Travis City, Ann Arbor have been uh among the best at advocating for those kinds of things.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you probably speak um to your counterparts around the state, other places about what you've done, and they want to know how you did it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about what we've done um in the city of Grand Rapids in recent years to really help with that kind of safer um mobility and accessibility on the streets.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, as part of the um shift in our um income tax that went to or goes towards transportation, um, that there was a commitment.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was first called the Sustainable Streets Task Force, didn't want to utilize the complete streets moniker.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so what are sustainable streets?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or then we also use the tape the title vibrant streets.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: But we as disability advocates were at the table during all those committee meetings.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the person who was our access coordinator, and that most communities are of the size that if you show up to a meeting, eventually you're you're just gonna be invited to sit at the table.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And her name was Kim, and she was our access coordinator, and she would sit with city staff, and she eventually just said, Why don't you just sit at the table?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because every time they asked the technical question, I would say Kim, and she would answer it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: So um I've forgotten way more than I used to know.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: But, anyways, get involved with your community.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's the key.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then um with that, there was the prioritization to replace sidewalks and replacing curb cuts.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: So some of the initial curb cuts that were done were done poorly, and so the city is redoing those.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: I know the city of Kentwood has actually replaced all their non-compliant curb cuts.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: So they already had curb cuts.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, city of Granville, City of East Grand Rapids, they're 100%, you know, curb cut.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: They got no curbs.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're still learned along the way about that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about how uh, you know, I mean, it was all good intentions when curb cuts were first created, but of course, yeah, there's always going to be things you learn and they have to evolve.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about the difference between one now and 20 years ago.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, one of the biggest things is, and and it's I'm glad we have this fear because we have um we have water to be afraid of in Michigan.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, nothing against our friends in southwest states and other parts of the world without water.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: But some of the curb cuts were done and without uh getting too far into the weeds, you know, they have these little little bumps, or not bumps, or like a two-inch curb to protect water.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like water is smarter than we give it credit for.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to give it much instruction.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: It'll go, you know.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I again I do listen more than occasionally to the podcast.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I love the podcast about the 696 rebuild and some water issues you had on those big bridges or whatever you guys call them.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: What's green, green field, green, you know what I'm talking about.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Those big bridges built so that yeah, people can cross over the top of it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, exactly.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then, yeah, those plazas.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And but then now you've you've learned, okay, let's let's we gotta help water just a little bit on this.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, all of that being said, the curb cut construction definitely is way better.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Way like downtown Grand Rapids, they're just real, like you don't even notice the bump into the street.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we have to have the tactile warnings there for folks with low vision.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: But the biggest thing we've learned is that everybody appreciates curb cuts.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a person in a wheelchair, absolutely.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're a person pushing a stroller, person pulling a luggage, wheeled luggage.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just it's as we like to say, access for all.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it can be, yeah, some of these solutions are more than just the one-offs.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And some more even progressive things that are happening are basically raised intersections so that the crosswalks are are at the same grade all the way across, right?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was the city planner from um far off Halifax, Nova Scotia, who talked about first taught us about it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where again, why should somebody go down into the street and then back out as opposed to a vehicle which has greater ability that could go over that raised sidewalk?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it's you know, I've I have two speed bumps on my street, um, you know, which is definitely again the very again.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I gotta I gotta remember some of the things I forgot, but you know, it's just a tiny little neighborhood street, but it's got two curb cuts to slow people down, and people know how to deal with it.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you're right.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh early on when these were introduced and being uh being done pretty aggressively in Grand Rapids, both uh speed humps and curb uh what do they call them, bump outs and pinch points and various things to slow traffic down.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: People at first complain and then they get used to it and uh and say, yeah, this this works just fine.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and then they start complaining that they want one on this other street because people are going too fast.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's the biggest complaint I hear in Grand Rapids is people want more of them.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the same with roundabouts, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um they they at first people are not sure and then they they generally I mean, I'm not gonna say everybody's on board.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: We we still hear complaints, and uh again, right the city of Grand Rapids has been pretty aggressive about roundabouts, and not everybody likes them, but uh when you think about both the uh the the way they reduce series crashes and and what they do for emissions, it's to me it's a no-brainer.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, real quickly, uh your annual event is coming up, Disability Advocates of Kent County, Invest in Ability.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um what are the themes this year?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know it it always ties into everything we've talked about again because it's one of the spokes on the wheel.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, well, this year we're our Invest in Ability Award is being given to the Kendall College of Art and Design of Fair State University.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been um just really, really increasing our partnership with them.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: We signed a memorandum of understanding a year ago, and just we both they and us continue to learn so much about a thing called inclusive design, and that's you know, a great example of it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they're actually helping us um document the process is we have a group of people we call our test pilots, and the test pilots would go out on you know, pick an M road, you know, M11 and M37.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Some people call that 28th Street in the belt line.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but most people call it most people call it most people in Grand Rapids are like M11, what's that?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Bingo.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, sorry, that's there's no Wilson Avenue, just to confuse you further.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, exactly.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so confused.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: But, anyways, you go out there.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a multi-decade advocacy to get sidewalks on that M road, but um back to having people with the experience, so people in wheelchairs, people who have vision loss with planning commissions, experiencing streets, be they a five-lane or that intersection is probably six or seven as it winds out to various turn lanes and such, but to experience the crossing to understand how best to design for the future.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, so that's the fun we're having with Kendall College and the students there and and the commitment at Fair Estate, you know, their main campus up at Big Rapids, that yeah, people are just more than interested, really, really engaged in this next generation of design.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, without without letting out any spoilers, um, you'll all be invited to be part of our conspiracy.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: So look forward to that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, always, always looking forward to that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks, David.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: As always, I appreciate talking to you about these things, and I certainly appreciate what you do to uh to enlighten the world about the needs of what you say uh people think of as other people, um, or those people, I guess that's the term you use.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh you and your staff's work has gone a long way to break down that barrier.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you much, sir.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jackie Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.