Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags With Joseph Scott Morgan: An Unhappy Anniversary - The Death of Emily Jean Schwartz

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Body Bags With Joseph Scott Morgan: An Unhappy Anniversary - The Death of Emily Jean Schwartz · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Quody dogs with Joseph's gotten more. Since my kids were little.
0:10
Speaker 1: My wife has been insistent upon camping, and I could,
0:17
Speaker 1: you know, regal you with all manner of stories about
0:22
Speaker 1: our camping trips, and generally they involve rain. I've never
0:30
Speaker 1: been one for tent camping. I'm an old soldier, so
0:32
Speaker 1: I had to bivohac and that sort of thing over
0:35
Speaker 1: the years, and it was more of a necessary evil
0:39
Speaker 1: for me. Now I don't mind going renting a cabin
0:42
Speaker 1: in an isolated area, you know. I don't even mind
0:46
Speaker 1: necessarily going out in a camper perhaps tent camping though
0:51
Speaker 1: it's just work. It's so much work. Some people live
0:55
Speaker 1: for it. Not my thing. But today we're going to
1:00
Speaker 1: talk about someone, a couple that did apparently enjoy camping
1:09
Speaker 1: with a camper. And it's not like a regular camper
1:14
Speaker 1: that you would go to some large, you know, sales
1:19
Speaker 1: lot to purchase. This is a camper that was customized.
1:24
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the camper looks much like
1:28
Speaker 1: the transportation buses that we have on campus, kind of
1:33
Speaker 1: short going from a stop to stop along the circle
1:39
Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State dropping off students. But they had converted
1:44
Speaker 1: it into an actual camper, sleeping area, kitchen, bathroom, with
1:53
Speaker 1: all of the appointments that you would expect for comfort
1:57
Speaker 1: on the road. The only problem is is that the
2:02
Speaker 1: trip that they were taking would end up with one
2:07
Speaker 1: of them dead and dismembered. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and
2:14
Speaker 1: this is Bodybags. Dave Mac. Have you ever had your
2:23
Speaker 1: kids come to you and say, Dad, I want to
2:27
Speaker 1: go tent camping. I want to go ten camping. I
2:30
Speaker 1: want to I want to lay on the dirt and
2:34
Speaker 1: we're going to cook out by the fire and we're
2:35
Speaker 1: going to sing songs. And they never they never bought
2:39
Speaker 1: into it at all.
2:40
Speaker 2: July fourth, nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, really, and it was
2:46
Speaker 2: Hannah was still a baby. Yeah, but Ladanna's father had
2:49
Speaker 2: just passed away on May fifth of ninety eight, and
2:53
Speaker 2: so we decide, you guys want to go camping. We're
2:57
Speaker 2: going to go camping. And we were tent camping. Okay,
3:01
Speaker 2: we had the big tent. We went out there, did
3:03
Speaker 2: the fishing and everything else, and had it fire. And
3:05
Speaker 2: it's about nine o'clock at night. And the area we
3:08
Speaker 2: were camping in it was not rural, it was not
3:10
Speaker 2: rough in camp it was the campsites and things, but
3:12
Speaker 2: also it did have a communal air in area where
3:14
Speaker 2: you could go and bathe. You know, it was a
3:17
Speaker 2: walking distance where our tent was pitched, and so I
3:20
Speaker 2: went up there to do that because I was filthy
3:21
Speaker 2: from setting up the tin. Because all my kids were
3:23
Speaker 2: young then, you know. Oh yeah, four kids and one
3:26
Speaker 2: that was only six months old. Okay, And so here
3:29
Speaker 2: we are, Daddy, Dave and I came back from the shower,
3:32
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I feel like a new man. My
3:34
Speaker 2: whole family out here in the woods. How cool is this?
3:36
Speaker 2: And I get there and I see the kids running
3:40
Speaker 2: from the van. We had my truck and we have
3:42
Speaker 2: my wife's minivan. I see them running from the tent
3:44
Speaker 2: to the van. I won the world. And I get there.
3:49
Speaker 2: I said, it's nine o'clock at night. Gotta love Alabama summer.
3:52
Speaker 2: And I said, what is wrong with you guys? Why
3:54
Speaker 2: are you? I look inside and Loadonna's got the baby,
3:58
Speaker 2: and the air's running. The van is on, windows are repping,
4:00
Speaker 2: the air's running, and like it's too hot in that
4:03
Speaker 2: ten Dad is just too hot. I'm like, no way,
4:06
Speaker 2: this is ridiculous. Come on, I'm not kidding. So I
4:08
Speaker 2: opened the flap. I said, well, you got to make
4:10
Speaker 2: sure those flaps are open, and the wind, you know.
4:12
Speaker 2: I get in there and I'm not kidding. It was
4:13
Speaker 2: an oven. It was so bad. I poked my head
4:16
Speaker 2: in there and went we're out. We went home. I'm
4:18
Speaker 2: not kidding. We drove home and we're filthy and sweaty
4:21
Speaker 2: because the kids that it was just it was crazy.
4:23
Speaker 2: And the thing is on the way home because the
4:25
Speaker 2: holiday weekend, we get stocked pulling off the highway to
4:28
Speaker 2: come towards our home. They've got one of these police
4:31
Speaker 2: identification stops on the UI checkpoint, and so I pull
4:35
Speaker 2: up there, my kids are We all look like we'd
4:37
Speaker 2: have been, you know, because I loaded them up. I
4:39
Speaker 2: mean I had just walked out of the shower from there.
4:41
Speaker 2: I like, get in the van, let's go. I left
4:43
Speaker 2: my truck and everything's sitting up there. We're riding now.
4:45
Speaker 2: I mean, we looked like we had been. Oh, it
4:48
Speaker 2: was bad. It was so bad.
4:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, you never know what's going to happen on one
4:53
Speaker 1: of these trips because many times the environment does, in fact,
4:56
Speaker 1: yeah dictate you know the behaviors of everybody there. If
5:00
Speaker 1: you're not all on the same sheet of music. It
5:03
Speaker 1: can be the worst experience in your life. But then again,
5:05
Speaker 1: you can have those moments that flash in and it's
5:09
Speaker 1: pure joy. There you go and you know we've.
5:13
Speaker 2: Taken it on wheels. That the end of the day
5:17
Speaker 2: another story. But at least I didn't get mad shoot
5:19
Speaker 2: him in the head and cut him up, you know.
5:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding.
5:22
Speaker 2: And the craziest thing I've ever heard of. Joe. Yeah,
5:26
Speaker 2: it is anniversary. This is anniversary camping, Joe, this is
5:30
Speaker 2: this is anniversary camping. They've been married one year.
5:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would think that this would be uh, embroidered
5:37
Speaker 1: with joy upon every step along the way, but this,
5:42
Speaker 1: this really did turn into an absolute nightmare with this
5:46
Speaker 1: young couple that again celebrating a one year anniversary and
5:52
Speaker 1: arguably Dave. They live in a region of the country
5:55
Speaker 1: that I have always wanted to visit, and that is
5:59
Speaker 1: Upper New England. Uh, I've never had a chance of
6:01
Speaker 1: being to Boston. Many times. I love Boston, one of
6:05
Speaker 1: the few big cities in America I would actually say
6:08
Speaker 1: that about but I've never gotten up to see the
6:12
Speaker 1: beauty that is, you know, up toward the Canadian border.
6:16
Speaker 1: In either Vermont or New Hampshire, and in this particular case,
6:21
Speaker 1: they're from Vermont, I believe, if that's if that's accurate,
6:27
Speaker 1: and they were heading out on the road to celebrate,
6:31
Speaker 1: and there's so much around you it. You know. I
6:33
Speaker 1: was talking to Kim that we were going to cover
6:35
Speaker 1: this case and she said, wow, this sounds like Gabby
6:40
Speaker 1: Patito and I was like, kind of, But it wasn't
6:44
Speaker 1: like a cross country trip. This is an area that
6:46
Speaker 1: they're they're you know, they're domiciled in. It's not like
6:51
Speaker 1: they're they're they've set out on the road, you know,
6:53
Speaker 1: on the road with Charles Carral remember, uh, They're they're
6:57
Speaker 1: not out on the road to discover America. This is
7:00
Speaker 1: kind of their home country, you know, the area up there,
7:04
Speaker 1: and I've always heard about how beautiful it is, but
7:07
Speaker 1: to visit such horror and truly, Dave, I guess, out
7:11
Speaker 1: of all the cases we've covered this past month, this
7:14
Speaker 1: might be one of the most horrific because I couldn't
7:18
Speaker 1: I couldn't fathom what had taken place in this converted van.
7:22
Speaker 1: And it's a converted bus. Actually, to be more accurate,
7:26
Speaker 1: it's a converted bus and I'm.
7:27
Speaker 2: Thinking pictures I've seen look pretty good.
7:29
Speaker 1: They do look good, and it looks like it's squared away.
7:33
Speaker 1: But Dave, can you kind of fill into blanks relative
7:35
Speaker 1: to some of the information about the couple, because that's
7:40
Speaker 1: one of the things that's the age I think plays
7:43
Speaker 1: into this. For me, I'm hearing about the age, and
7:45
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of thinking, are we coming from two
7:48
Speaker 1: different worlds here or what's going on? I'm trying to
7:51
Speaker 1: figure this out.
7:51
Speaker 2: Okay, first things first, you know what, there is an
7:55
Speaker 2: age gap here for a lot. Joseph for Loozzo is
7:58
Speaker 2: forty one at the time, his wife twenty two, so
8:02
Speaker 2: she's half his age. That's part one. The problem with it, though,
8:06
Speaker 2: isn't so much the age difference as it is the
8:10
Speaker 2: domestic violence issues that existed in their couplehood. Okay, I'm
8:15
Speaker 2: not going to say that it began the minute they
8:17
Speaker 2: got married. I'm not going to say that at all,
8:19
Speaker 2: because it doesn't happen like that. If you we tend
8:24
Speaker 2: to give a bit of a disclaimer because this does
8:27
Speaker 2: deal with domestic violence, and there is just a domestic
8:30
Speaker 2: violence hotline that we will give to you at the
8:32
Speaker 2: end of the show. But This was something that those
8:36
Speaker 2: close to the relationship could see coming. They knew that
8:40
Speaker 2: this couple fought a lot. You know, she seems like
8:43
Speaker 2: a wonderful person. Just everybody loves her. Her dream was
8:46
Speaker 2: to become a cosmetologist, to make people feel good about themselves.
8:49
Speaker 2: It was something she had dealt with in her life
8:51
Speaker 2: where she didn't always feel the best about herself. And
8:55
Speaker 2: here comes Joseph Forlozzo, and I think he played upon
8:59
Speaker 2: that he was able to wrangle her any You know
9:02
Speaker 2: a lot of domestic violence men who commit domestic violence,
9:06
Speaker 2: they control every situation and gaslight their partner to the
9:09
Speaker 2: point where the other person thinks they're always wrong. Whatever
9:12
Speaker 2: they've done is wrong, and they deserve whatever bad comes
9:15
Speaker 2: their way. And in this particular case, they've been married
9:20
Speaker 2: for one year and they go on their camping thing.
9:23
Speaker 2: But Joseph Farlozzo comes home and her parents say, well, well,
9:30
Speaker 2: what's up with Emily? Where's Emily? You know, you guys
9:33
Speaker 2: went on a camping trip to celebrate your one year
9:35
Speaker 2: anniversary of being married, and you come home without her?
9:39
Speaker 2: What happened? He tells his mother in law, or is
9:43
Speaker 2: Emily's stepmother, and her name is Prudy Schwartz because I
9:47
Speaker 2: wanted to share this with you. Prudy Schwartz says he
9:49
Speaker 2: came in and just said that they got into an
9:52
Speaker 2: argument and she ran off. So you're out camping your wife,
9:57
Speaker 2: you get into an argument so bad with your wife
9:58
Speaker 2: that she just takes off away and you come home
10:01
Speaker 2: without her. That's what he actually came home with by himself.
10:07
Speaker 2: She ran off, deaf for an argument. Who thinks that's
10:10
Speaker 2: going to work?
10:11
Speaker 1: I have no idea. And let me say something in
10:15
Speaker 1: addition to this, she may have had a low self image,
10:20
Speaker 1: but she's a lovely young woman. Ye absolutely beautiful, and
10:27
Speaker 1: a smile, you know, one of these thousand watt smiles.
10:30
Speaker 1: It looks like and I think that you're right about.
10:34
Speaker 2: He looks horrible. He looks like somebody they should have
10:36
Speaker 2: married a blind person, you know.
10:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, or someone that lives under a bridge and eats
10:41
Speaker 1: billy goats. He's horrible, and he probably he probably is
10:48
Speaker 1: an individual that perhaps, as you had mentioned, gas lighting,
10:55
Speaker 1: she's revealed this to him about herself. And I can
10:59
Speaker 1: just of the conversation. Well, I'm the best you'll ever get.
11:02
Speaker 1: You better be counting your lucky stars. And I think
11:06
Speaker 1: that a lot of these people that perpetrate, you know,
11:10
Speaker 1: domestic violence on their partners like this, they have that
11:16
Speaker 1: ability and they can diminish people, that can demean people.
11:19
Speaker 1: There are folks right now that are within the sound
11:21
Speaker 1: of my voice that are either going through that right
11:24
Speaker 1: now or perhaps have encountered that in the past, where
11:27
Speaker 1: you're you feel completely diminished and worthless, and then you
11:31
Speaker 1: have an ogre like this that enters your life, you know,
11:36
Speaker 1: and just further exacerbates these you know, these images, these
11:40
Speaker 1: self image issues that you have. And you know, he
11:44
Speaker 1: he's certainly the ugly one in this case, ugly for
11:48
Speaker 1: a number of reasons, not just physical appearance, but what
11:52
Speaker 1: he wants up perpetrating, Dave. The thought is, and here's
11:57
Speaker 1: another thing, kind of going back to camping, if you
12:01
Speaker 1: want to control somebody, you get them in a camper.
12:06
Speaker 1: If you have sinister plans that you're looking to perpetrate,
12:11
Speaker 1: get them in a camper. Maybe it's something you've worked
12:13
Speaker 1: hard on. You're a control freak, you're a gas lighter.
12:19
Speaker 1: No one's going to hear anything. You're there. It's not
12:22
Speaker 1: like you're on a plane flying somewhere. It's not like
12:25
Speaker 1: you're going to some fancy resort to celebrate your first anniversary. No,
12:30
Speaker 1: you've planned this because in this I believe, as will reveal,
12:35
Speaker 1: there is planning that goes in to this horrific crime.
12:40
Speaker 1: He has the ability to control her movements where they're
12:43
Speaker 1: destined to and I think probably in the end where
12:48
Speaker 1: he would take her life. You know, I know that
13:05
Speaker 1: there are outward signs I think probably through behavior perhaps
13:14
Speaker 1: of people that have been abused and mistreated in their behaviors.
13:20
Speaker 1: You know, they don't do well with large groups of people.
13:25
Speaker 1: If they're in the presence of their abuser, they will
13:28
Speaker 1: put on a show or act for that person so
13:31
Speaker 1: that they're behaving in a manner that they think is
13:35
Speaker 1: acceptable to the person that's in control of them. But
13:38
Speaker 1: then there are the other things, you know, they're in
13:42
Speaker 1: this particular case, Dave, there is a record of domestic
13:48
Speaker 1: abuse and from what I understand, Emily actually presented in
13:53
Speaker 1: the past with injuries on her body. Is that accurate.
13:56
Speaker 2: The family actually talked about this that when Joseph lots
14:00
Speaker 2: so they go camping in Vermont, he returns home to
14:03
Speaker 2: New Hampshire without his wife and tells the family that
14:07
Speaker 2: she stormed off and that's why they called police. They
14:10
Speaker 2: didn't find out right away either. I don't know if
14:12
Speaker 2: I mentioned that. It was like forty eight hours before
14:14
Speaker 2: he even told them that she started. You know, he's
14:17
Speaker 2: been home two days and doesn't even bother to tell anybody.
14:19
Speaker 2: When mom or stepmom starts checking up, he then says, yeah,
14:22
Speaker 2: she stormed off, We got no fight, and she calls
14:26
Speaker 2: the police.
14:27
Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the things. That's one of the
14:28
Speaker 1: things that my wife had mentioned about this case, and
14:31
Speaker 1: with similarity to the Potito case. You know, because of
14:35
Speaker 1: this the dead air, if you will, you know, no
14:38
Speaker 1: one knows what's going on, and isn't that Isn't that fascinating?
14:42
Speaker 1: I often wonder you what, how does that actually happen?
14:48
Speaker 1: I think actually it goes to this idea of they're
14:51
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what they're going to do next, right,
14:54
Speaker 1: and so they'll stammer and they'll stumble on their words
14:57
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. But yeah, I mean, I
15:00
Speaker 1: don't know that anybody could have anticipated the storm that
15:02
Speaker 1: was coming.
15:02
Speaker 2: But that's where Prudy Schwortz, the stepmom, says, who waits
15:06
Speaker 2: two and a half days to even tell anybody their
15:09
Speaker 2: significant other is missing, even if you have to wait
15:12
Speaker 2: forty eight hours to call the cop. You tell family something.
15:15
Speaker 2: And you know what, that actually was probably the most
15:18
Speaker 2: honest thing I've ever heard anybody say. What she is
15:20
Speaker 2: saying is, look, you killed somebody, all right, You at
15:23
Speaker 2: least tell your family what's going on. You know, you
15:26
Speaker 2: don't lie to everybody close to you while you figure
15:28
Speaker 2: out what you're going to tell is your story. But
15:30
Speaker 2: in this case, he doesn't tell anybody that she's gone. Okay,
15:34
Speaker 2: if you believe his story, I mean, to believe his story,
15:37
Speaker 2: one has to believe that they were camping for their
15:40
Speaker 2: one year anniversary, having a romantic time, and for whatever reason,
15:44
Speaker 2: they got into an argument. And even though you're still
15:47
Speaker 2: in the honeymoon phase in your first year of marriage,
15:49
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're not, you married the wrong person.
15:52
Speaker 2: And in this case, he comes home and doesn't tell
15:55
Speaker 2: anybody that she left, that he doesn't know where she is.
15:58
Speaker 2: It's the most ridiculous thing. But you know, he's probably
16:02
Speaker 2: pulled off so many other lies in his life. And
16:06
Speaker 2: the worst part is to find out that the family
16:09
Speaker 2: you mentioned she presented the family mentioned that while police
16:12
Speaker 2: had been called, and by the way, police are oftentimes
16:15
Speaker 2: called to loud arguments that are not physical. They haven't
16:19
Speaker 2: turned physical yet. In this case, the family said they
16:22
Speaker 2: saw the cuts and bruises, they saw the marks, they
16:24
Speaker 2: saw the things that they knew they believed were from
16:29
Speaker 2: her husband. You know, first, it is so weird to
16:32
Speaker 2: have two different Lodonna things in the first in this show.
16:36
Speaker 2: When we first got married Laddanna had been a career
16:39
Speaker 2: person and had always you know, had a career, and
16:41
Speaker 2: so we decided to raise our children with her at home.
16:45
Speaker 2: It's something she wanted to do back that's so weird,
16:47
Speaker 2: single fan household. But she was so used to doing
16:50
Speaker 2: things during the day that she would move furniture all
16:53
Speaker 2: day long, moving it from one point. I mean, I'd
16:55
Speaker 2: come home and trip over something. It was like Dick
16:57
Speaker 2: van Dyke in the Hassock because it was never in
16:59
Speaker 2: the same way two days in a row. But the
17:02
Speaker 2: thing is she also bruised very easy. So we're at church,
17:05
Speaker 2: been married about three months and the ladies group at
17:08
Speaker 2: church pulled it on a side when we got to
17:09
Speaker 2: church one day and they sat her down and said,
17:12
Speaker 2: you're going to tell us what's going on? We see
17:14
Speaker 2: the bruises. What is he doing to you? They were
17:17
Speaker 2: not tolerating.
17:18
Speaker 1: It, totally smokes.
17:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was like I didn't find this out
17:21
Speaker 2: till after the church service, but yeah, I freaked out.
17:24
Speaker 2: I'm like, what, you know, stop moving furniture, you know.
17:28
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing is like, why don't people
17:31
Speaker 2: do that?
17:32
Speaker 1: You know?
17:32
Speaker 2: In our case, it was very innocent and explainable, and
17:35
Speaker 2: thank god, her mother was like, no, it's that's the
17:37
Speaker 2: way she's always been. But if you care about somebody,
17:40
Speaker 2: step in the gap. Somebody needed to be there for
17:44
Speaker 2: If you're going to tell me that after she's dead,
17:47
Speaker 2: that you saw this coming and you did nothing.
17:50
Speaker 1: Come on, yeah, we uh. We had a case recently.
17:56
Speaker 1: I think we covered it last week where the grandparents
17:59
Speaker 1: or the grand father had seen something, remember, and didn't
18:03
Speaker 1: report it, and of course the child wound up deceased.
18:09
Speaker 1: I'm amazed by this, you know that, because look, you know,
18:14
Speaker 1: it's one of these circumstances. You get one shot at
18:17
Speaker 1: protecting somebody and you might not want to be embarrassed,
18:22
Speaker 1: but it would be better to be embarrassed and be
18:27
Speaker 1: sure that nothing had happened as opposed to well, them
18:32
Speaker 1: going on a vacation and they're coming back, and so yeah,
18:36
Speaker 1: you think about the price that has to be paid,
18:39
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's a tough bit of business, you know,
18:41
Speaker 1: to even have this discussion. I think for many people
18:44
Speaker 1: there in the midst of these sorts of things. Here's
18:47
Speaker 1: another bit to this with for lots of story, which
18:51
Speaker 1: is so super bizarre. You know how I told you
18:53
Speaker 1: I wanted to go and visit Vermont in New Hampshire.
18:57
Speaker 1: People out there that are listening, don't take this the
19:00
Speaker 1: wrong way. I don't want to be around people. I
19:07
Speaker 1: really don't. It's not that I dislike everybody that I
19:10
Speaker 1: come across, but if I'm going to go and get away,
19:14
Speaker 1: I want to get away and I don't want to
19:16
Speaker 1: be bothered. You know. I think ideally it would either
19:19
Speaker 1: be a small little shack on the beach or maybe
19:24
Speaker 1: up in the north Woods quiet, you know, my dog there,
19:28
Speaker 1: having a fire, reading a book, nice, getting a nice
19:30
Speaker 1: bottle of wine.
19:31
Speaker 2: Y'all have to understand the reason for that is because
19:34
Speaker 2: in your professional life, you're constantly on. You have to
19:39
Speaker 2: always when you're doing an appearance on network television, doing
19:42
Speaker 2: the podcast, doing the other shows that you do. And
19:45
Speaker 2: by the way, being a professor at a college and
19:47
Speaker 2: being a teaching professor, you've got to constantly be on
19:50
Speaker 2: your game in front of other people and engaging, and
19:53
Speaker 2: after giving so much of yourself for a while, you
19:55
Speaker 2: do need that time to be alone and recharge your batteries.
19:58
Speaker 2: So I understand it hundred percent. I've been around Joe
20:01
Speaker 2: and his wife enough to know he loves people. But
20:04
Speaker 2: you got to get away too well.
20:06
Speaker 1: I find I find that when I do finally get
20:09
Speaker 1: a bit of quiet, tom, I choose to sit in
20:12
Speaker 1: my chair and I go to sleep, and then I
20:14
Speaker 1: forget it, so that i've we.
20:16
Speaker 2: Would do that battle. One time I told Lodna I
20:18
Speaker 2: would live in the bat cave. I really would like
20:20
Speaker 2: to have a million I'd like to have a mile
20:21
Speaker 2: long driveway that just drops off into the woods where
20:24
Speaker 2: you don't even know where it went. And day the
20:27
Speaker 2: next day when I show up at work, you know.
20:29
Speaker 1: Well, I wonder about this relative to for Lasso. He's
20:33
Speaker 1: saying that this young woman who you know, by the way,
20:37
Speaker 1: you know when it comes to marriage, and I view
20:41
Speaker 1: myself and you know, I don't care if I offend
20:44
Speaker 1: anybody by saying this, I view myself as my wife's protector.
20:48
Speaker 1: I'm a fierce protector of my wife. And so you're
20:53
Speaker 1: telling me that this young woman suddenly out of nowhere,
21:01
Speaker 1: literally walks off into the wilderness. Inarguably not in the
21:07
Speaker 1: entirety of America, but I would say probably east of
21:10
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, one of the single most isolated areas.
21:15
Speaker 1: And we're talking seriously rural east of the Mississippi River.
21:20
Speaker 1: You're saying, just so that I get this straight, mister philosophy,
21:23
Speaker 1: you're saying that she is up after an argument, decided
21:27
Speaker 1: to wander off and leaving everything behind. I can't That's
21:34
Speaker 1: hard to fathom from me. When if I'm sitting there
21:39
Speaker 1: and I'm listening to this individual and I'm interviewing him
21:42
Speaker 1: from an investigative standpoint, and he's telling me the story,
21:47
Speaker 1: it just doesn't add up because either you know that
21:51
Speaker 1: something horrific has happened to her, or you're one of
21:55
Speaker 1: the biggest beasts on the face of the planet absent
21:58
Speaker 1: any kind of compassion and love, which this is all about.
22:03
Speaker 1: Remember they're going on there the celebration of their first anniversary.
22:06
Speaker 1: You're telling me that you are going to go home
22:09
Speaker 1: abandoning the person that you have, you know, stated that
22:14
Speaker 1: you love more than anybody in the world. You're supposed
22:16
Speaker 1: to love more than yourself, by the way, and you're
22:19
Speaker 1: going to leave her up there in this wilderness. It
22:22
Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense, Dave No.
22:25
Speaker 2: And the part about it that when he says that
22:27
Speaker 2: she ran off, you know that, you're saying she ran
22:30
Speaker 2: off into the woods. You know that, and I think
22:32
Speaker 2: you're accurate in that assessment. That's what he claims to believe.
22:35
Speaker 2: But he actually spends it around okay, when nobody believes
22:39
Speaker 2: this story of her just getting lost, because you know,
22:42
Speaker 2: she's not an idiot, smart person, early twenties, in good health,
22:45
Speaker 2: she would have been able to find civilization. Right. She's
22:48
Speaker 2: been gone two days by the time he even reports
22:50
Speaker 2: her two and a half days, but well before her
22:52
Speaker 2: family reports are missing. He never did, and so the
22:56
Speaker 2: idea that she's out there wandering around angles sleep doesn't
23:00
Speaker 2: hold water either. So they're like, what happened? Now, That's
23:03
Speaker 2: when they start turning the screws. That's when they bring
23:05
Speaker 2: him in and say, excuse me, Joseph Forlotzo, you're forty
23:10
Speaker 2: one years old, you married a girl half your age.
23:12
Speaker 2: Come on and talk to us. Now, Now you're going
23:14
Speaker 2: to actually and this is what I always picture happening, Joe,
23:16
Speaker 2: and you correct me if I'm wrong. I always picture
23:18
Speaker 2: people like this. Men that are like this towards are
23:20
Speaker 2: so weak. They are not the kind of guy that
23:23
Speaker 2: has friends, because they're horrible people. They're all about controlling
23:27
Speaker 2: another person who they deem weaker, and that's how they
23:30
Speaker 2: get their jollies or whatever in life. Now this type
23:33
Speaker 2: of individual is going to have to sit down with
23:36
Speaker 2: some real men. And if a woman is investigating this
23:41
Speaker 2: as a detective as well, she's going to be able
23:43
Speaker 2: to stand right in his face. They're going to get
23:45
Speaker 2: the best and worst out of this guy in no time.
23:48
Speaker 2: Is that a fair assessment of how that interview is
23:50
Speaker 2: going to take place.
23:52
Speaker 1: Yes, it's very very true. And they you know the
23:55
Speaker 1: old adage about good cop back cop, And if you've
23:58
Speaker 1: got a group of investigators sort of work working this,
24:00
Speaker 1: this thing is scripted. Before they ever begin to talk
24:03
Speaker 1: to him, they'll say, Okay, I'm going to observe. I'm
24:06
Speaker 1: going to ask the questions, and the person that is
24:08
Speaker 1: asking the questions will pretty much stand on task unless
24:12
Speaker 1: they have pre arranged for them to suddenly interrupt because
24:16
Speaker 1: you're trying to elicit a response because you know, you
24:20
Speaker 1: don't initially you don't know where the young woman is. Okay,
24:24
Speaker 1: she's out in the wilderness for all you know. You
24:28
Speaker 1: just want to know where she is, and you try to.
24:31
Speaker 1: I think in many of these quote unquote missing persons cases,
24:35
Speaker 1: you try to appeal to their humanity. But here's the problem.
24:40
Speaker 1: If you're absent humanity and compassion, what the hell are
24:46
Speaker 1: you appealing to. Well, we hit a jackpot here, Dave,
25:04
Speaker 1: with this particular case. I am proud to say that
25:09
Speaker 1: once again we have another person, an accused perpetrator, who
25:15
Speaker 1: is trying to use the famous I blacked out defense.
25:21
Speaker 1: And you know, I love the fact that you talked
25:24
Speaker 1: about putting the screws to him, this idea of you know,
25:29
Speaker 1: we're going to get some answers from you, and if
25:33
Speaker 1: we have to stay here all day, you're going to
25:36
Speaker 1: stand up and answer for what has happened to Emily.
25:40
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. When Emily, or all that remained
25:48
Speaker 1: of Emily is finally discovered, I'm just amazed that, first off,
25:57
Speaker 1: the police could contain themselves to the point where they
26:01
Speaker 1: didn't feel like their heads were going to explode or
26:04
Speaker 1: that they were going to great bodily harm, because what
26:07
Speaker 1: they wound up finding relative to Emily would shock the
26:11
Speaker 1: most stalwart among us to your absolute core. He finally
26:18
Speaker 1: admits that he did in fact kill her. However, Yeah, I.
26:24
Speaker 2: Got to ask you something because yeah, yeah, in that
26:26
Speaker 2: interview room, you and I have watched these and you've
26:28
Speaker 2: seen the end results of these. But when they start
26:31
Speaker 2: talking and they listen to him, you know, they get
26:34
Speaker 2: the story. Okay, you guys got into an argument and
26:36
Speaker 2: she left. They're talking to him about his story, and
26:41
Speaker 2: it obviously doesn't hold water for what you just explained
26:43
Speaker 2: a minute ago. I mean, what kind of man is
26:45
Speaker 2: going to let, and this particular case, a much younger
26:48
Speaker 2: woman leave and beyond her own in the woods. I mean,
26:51
Speaker 2: are you a real man to do that? And I
26:53
Speaker 2: would imagine that alone would cause him to go. Look,
26:57
Speaker 2: we got into a fight, but it's not my fault
27:00
Speaker 2: because that's what he did. It's not my fault. She
27:03
Speaker 2: was the aggressor. We hadn't We don't know what the
27:05
Speaker 2: argument was about. By the way, I don't think he
27:06
Speaker 2: ever copped to make it up anything. But she was
27:09
Speaker 2: the aggressor. He was the punching bag. He's the victim. Joe,
27:13
Speaker 2: have you.
27:14
Speaker 1: Seen these two? Have you seen the image? This guy
27:16
Speaker 1: towers over her like bigfoot, this guy, I mean, she's
27:20
Speaker 1: the minutive, you know, long, pretty blonde hair, and he
27:24
Speaker 1: stands over her. I don't know, he's two feet taller
27:28
Speaker 1: than her. He almost looks like and okay, so let
27:31
Speaker 1: me get this straight. And I'm not saying that somebody
27:34
Speaker 1: that is short of sature cannot be an aggressor. All right,
27:37
Speaker 1: we all know that that's not the case. However, Okay,
27:41
Speaker 1: you're a grown man, and you're saying she's the aggressor. Yeah,
27:45
Speaker 1: he talks. He talks about she initiated the physical violence
27:49
Speaker 1: relative to I think, throwing candles at him, hurling insults
27:53
Speaker 1: at him, all these sorts of things. And she lays
27:58
Speaker 1: down on the sofa, apparent at some point in tom
28:02
Speaker 1: and if I remember correctly, she says something like okay,
28:06
Speaker 1: that's it. He claims Dave that she reached beneath the
28:13
Speaker 1: throat pillar on the sofa, emerged with a handgun, points
28:19
Speaker 1: it at him and mysteriously he winds up. He discovers
28:23
Speaker 1: that he is holding a glock pistol with a suppressor
28:30
Speaker 1: screwed onto the end of it, and as it gets
28:34
Speaker 1: into the throes of uber violence, he dispatches her and
28:38
Speaker 1: kills her. That's the story you're going with, Well, that's
28:42
Speaker 1: the one that he ran with. That's his defense story.
28:45
Speaker 1: And it gets better after that, doesn't it.
28:49
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, well, I'm trying to get to that point
28:51
Speaker 2: with him where he's actually saying this, you know, and
28:54
Speaker 2: he's able to make this up. And it goes back
28:56
Speaker 2: to that gaslighting thing where no matter what happens, he's
28:59
Speaker 2: pretty ejecting everything onto her. And so you have to
29:02
Speaker 2: assume that he had planted the glock, because who has
29:06
Speaker 2: a glock with the silencer that's not planning on killing somebody.
29:08
Speaker 2: Think about that for a minute. I have plenty of
29:10
Speaker 2: people that I know that have guns. I don't know
29:14
Speaker 2: any that have a silencer.
29:17
Speaker 1: Well, they're easy, they are easy to get. It requires
29:21
Speaker 1: if you're going to get one, you have to get
29:22
Speaker 1: a particular there's a special form that you have to
29:26
Speaker 1: fill out and there's a waiting period to get one.
29:29
Speaker 1: But if you have a weapon. First off, you have
29:31
Speaker 1: to have a weapon that has a suppressor adapter on
29:35
Speaker 1: the end of it. In other words, the end of
29:37
Speaker 1: the barrel has to be threaded in order to accommodate
29:42
Speaker 1: screwing on the suppressor, and it has to the suppressor
29:45
Speaker 1: has to actually fit the weapon. Well. He has all
29:49
Speaker 1: of these components, Dave, all right, and it's that weapon
29:53
Speaker 1: that actually ended Emily's life. The other part this is
30:00
Speaker 1: that he remains with her body in this van, this
30:10
Speaker 1: camper that they've created out of a bus, sleeps with her,
30:14
Speaker 1: remains in the bus for many hours, gets up the
30:20
Speaker 1: next morning, goes and has breakfast with his sister, all
30:25
Speaker 1: the while Emily's body is in the van. It's at
30:29
Speaker 1: some point in time that he acquires or has already
30:33
Speaker 1: I believe, has already a saw, and it's the saw
30:39
Speaker 1: and the knives out of the knife block in their
30:43
Speaker 1: little kitchenette that are used in order to huh, cut
30:50
Speaker 1: Emily's body into eight separate pieces. And he was prepared
30:55
Speaker 1: with he was prepared with black garbage bags as well
31:00
Speaker 1: to place her body in. And it's not like this
31:03
Speaker 1: guy took her body after he had dismembered it and
31:08
Speaker 1: then went out into the woods and decided to place
31:12
Speaker 1: each individual bag in an unseen location. Maybe he buried it,
31:16
Speaker 1: maybe he took it to a body or no, no, no, no.
31:18
Speaker 1: He takes all of her remains and then goes into
31:22
Speaker 1: the bathroom of their van slash camper and retains them.
31:28
Speaker 1: Then he gets bleach and tries to clean up the scene.
31:32
Speaker 1: You know, it's when you begin to take the toll
31:40
Speaker 1: of what this guy did. It's really amazing. And Dave,
31:44
Speaker 1: there's one piece of evidence that they found. There were
31:46
Speaker 1: eight bags. Actually, there was one piece of evidence that
31:49
Speaker 1: they found in one of these bags that completely changed
31:52
Speaker 1: the story. Do you remember the pillow that I was
31:54
Speaker 1: talking about she was laying on. Yeah, yeah, she had
31:57
Speaker 1: her head resting on this pillar rade. Well, he claims
32:00
Speaker 1: that she that it is something like out of a
32:03
Speaker 1: spy movie or something. She you know, sticks her hand
32:06
Speaker 1: under the pillow and produces a weapon and then threatens him,
32:10
Speaker 1: and then you know, she says something like this is it,
32:13
Speaker 1: you know, or you're dead or whatever it is. Yeah,
32:16
Speaker 1: that pillow comes into play. You know why it comes
32:18
Speaker 1: into play because he took that pillow. He put it
32:22
Speaker 1: over this beautiful young woman's head and then takes that
32:26
Speaker 1: glock pistol equipped with a suppressor and fires through the
32:31
Speaker 1: pillow into her skull and kills her dead right there
32:36
Speaker 1: while she was apparently laying on the sofa on her phone.
32:41
Speaker 2: This is that's a big time thread.
32:43
Speaker 1: Joy, It is a big time thread. They can kill you,
32:45
Speaker 1: Oh boy, I'll tell you what. It's amazing, isn't it.
32:48
Speaker 1: This might be one of the most gutless things that
32:50
Speaker 1: I have heard of. And sometime it's it's bad enough
32:56
Speaker 1: that he did this to her after having, you know,
33:03
Speaker 1: mal treated her for so long with domestic abuse. It's
33:08
Speaker 1: not enough just to kill her. Now he's got to
33:11
Speaker 1: dismember her remains and ride around with him in a
33:15
Speaker 1: bus and then lie about it to the people that
33:20
Speaker 1: loved her. This is like the ultimate insult, Dave.
33:23
Speaker 2: If it's a defense thing where you're you know, you're
33:25
Speaker 2: afraid for your life and you're having to shoot somebody,
33:28
Speaker 2: and again your your wife in this case, why would
33:31
Speaker 2: you shoot them twice in the head? I mean, wouldn't
33:33
Speaker 2: one time be enough if you were if you were
33:35
Speaker 2: afraid for your life. With her laying on the couch
33:38
Speaker 2: and playing on her phone, where it's scaring you to death,
33:40
Speaker 2: and you're shooting just to try to back her off,
33:43
Speaker 2: you know, and fear that she's going to I guess,
33:46
Speaker 2: psychically kill you. And he shoots her twice in the head.
33:49
Speaker 2: Then do you think that maybe he because we know
33:53
Speaker 2: that he chopped her up. But unless you have planned
33:56
Speaker 2: on this, unless you know a good bit about the
33:58
Speaker 2: human anatomy, it's not an easy task to cut up
34:02
Speaker 2: a body. We've covered this many times. Yes, we have
34:04
Speaker 2: her easy.
34:05
Speaker 1: And it's not clean either. And you know he had
34:09
Speaker 1: laid out, you know, plastic bags on the floor of
34:13
Speaker 1: this thing in order to facilitate that hints he had
34:16
Speaker 1: to go back and bleach. But you know, there's one
34:17
Speaker 1: big piece that I forgot to tell you about, Dave.
34:21
Speaker 1: We know that he dispatched her with this glock pistol,
34:26
Speaker 1: but after having laid around in this converted bus with
34:35
Speaker 1: her remains, I mean, after hours, he decides with these
34:40
Speaker 1: knives from the knife block, he takes one, Dave, and
34:45
Speaker 1: he stabs her body. I think it was like upwards
34:49
Speaker 1: of fifteen times in a post mortem state. This is
34:52
Speaker 1: before he ever begins his dismemberment. Now you go and
34:57
Speaker 1: you tell me can we take the measure of how
35:01
Speaker 1: polluted this guy's mind would be. And you know, those
35:03
Speaker 1: stab wounds because you're you know, I'm kind of stating
35:08
Speaker 1: the obvious here. You're stabbing a corpse when you were
35:11
Speaker 1: when you would examine those wounds, and I can only
35:14
Speaker 1: can you imagine being the pathologist in you're you're there
35:21
Speaker 1: and you're you've got bags. There were six bags containing
35:25
Speaker 1: human remains. So you're opening gently, opening each back and
35:29
Speaker 1: you're taking out And what we do with dismembered remains
35:33
Speaker 1: is that we will try it. We don't. You can't
35:36
Speaker 1: rearticulate a body, but you lay it out on a table.
35:40
Speaker 1: We do the same thing with skeletal remains as well,
35:42
Speaker 1: and the board you lay you lay the body out
35:47
Speaker 1: as best you can in its correct anatomical orientation, and
35:51
Speaker 1: that way you can kind of appreciate where everything is.
35:54
Speaker 1: And as simplistic as it sounds, one of the things
35:57
Speaker 1: you're also trying to do is see if you're missing anything,
36:00
Speaker 1: because there are you know, there are dismemberment cases where
36:03
Speaker 1: people will take trophies, you know, and it's kind of absurd.
36:07
Speaker 1: More no, it's not. There's really nothing off limits in
36:11
Speaker 1: the world of death investigation. There is no absurdity that's
36:14
Speaker 1: too absurd. You have to consider all of this. But
36:17
Speaker 1: can you imagine being that pathologist and you're looking at
36:21
Speaker 1: this body. You have the head, and probably the heads
36:24
Speaker 1: the first thing you're going to go to, and you
36:25
Speaker 1: see that she's been tapped twice in the head. Okay,
36:29
Speaker 1: I've seen that before. But then you go to look
36:31
Speaker 1: at these other injuries and I'm not talking about the
36:35
Speaker 1: areas of dismemberment where you're disarticulating the body. I'm talking
36:39
Speaker 1: about knife wounds. And you're sitting there and say, my god,
36:43
Speaker 1: every one of these knife wounds is post mortem. There's
36:45
Speaker 1: no hemorrhage in them whatsoever. It's you know, you look
36:51
Speaker 1: at this and you try to drink all of this
36:53
Speaker 1: in everything that he tried to do with her body,
36:57
Speaker 1: but he couldn't seal the deal at the end as
37:00
Speaker 1: far as just trying to, I don't know, in some
37:04
Speaker 1: way discard her body or place her body, get as
37:07
Speaker 1: much distance from him and the body the mortal remains
37:11
Speaker 1: as he possibly can. I have a real hard time
37:14
Speaker 1: understanding that. And you know, we've we've had cases like
37:17
Speaker 1: this where people will kill individuals and then bury them
37:20
Speaker 1: in their own backyard.
37:22
Speaker 2: Dave, you know, I was thinking about something along the
37:25
Speaker 2: lines of for Loozzo Junior and his father, you know,
37:28
Speaker 2: they when he come up with the crazy story like
37:31
Speaker 2: he did, and later confessing, and it did come up
37:34
Speaker 2: in court, by the way, the defense did not want
37:36
Speaker 2: his confession to police to be entered in. But again,
37:39
Speaker 2: remember he claimed self defense. You know, it was in
37:44
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. Okay, Now this happened in twenty
37:48
Speaker 2: twenty one, so we're talking it's four years ago. But
37:51
Speaker 2: in twenty nine, twelve years before, Joseph Forlozzo Junior is
37:55
Speaker 2: accused of shooting his wife twice in the head on
37:57
Speaker 2: a camping train and cutting her body up. Joseph for
38:00
Speaker 2: Loozzo Senior, Joseph Junior's dad, Well, he owned massage parlors
38:06
Speaker 2: in Reading, Reading, Pennsylvania, and his wife managed. Her name
38:09
Speaker 2: is jong he Lim for Lootzo. Well, his salon had
38:17
Speaker 2: been raided earlier by cops, you know, because of prostitution
38:20
Speaker 2: going on at the salon, and he comes home from
38:25
Speaker 2: the grocery store in the midst of all this criminal
38:28
Speaker 2: activity and his wife, young he Lim Falazzo, has been
38:34
Speaker 2: killed with a knife. She's been stabbed to death. And
38:37
Speaker 2: he was the only you know, because happened when nobody's home.
38:40
Speaker 2: He comes home from the grocery store late at night
38:43
Speaker 2: and finds his wife dad, and they never convicted him
38:46
Speaker 2: for it, Joseph for Loozzo Senior. So twelve years later,
38:50
Speaker 2: his own son, his wife ends up dead and I'm
38:54
Speaker 2: wondering he shut her twice in the head? Did he
38:57
Speaker 2: stab her in? Is some kind of tribute to what
39:00
Speaker 2: his father did allegedly to his stepmother?
39:05
Speaker 1: Just a thought, Wow, And that's an amazing piece to this.
39:09
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting? How if an individual, maybe even someone
39:14
Speaker 1: much younger, had born witness to that level of violence,
39:19
Speaker 1: do they become numb to it? I have no idea.
39:23
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked a lot about control relative to
39:26
Speaker 1: this case, control and gas lighting and those sorts of things.
39:33
Speaker 1: When you look at you look at a case like
39:37
Speaker 1: this and you have a subject that would go to
39:39
Speaker 1: all of this trouble relative to obviously the murder and
39:44
Speaker 1: then the dismemberment and not want to get rid of
39:47
Speaker 1: the body, you have to think that there's something else
39:50
Speaker 1: going on here. That's why I believe that many people
39:53
Speaker 1: that hang on to remains, bearing them in the backyard,
39:57
Speaker 1: putting them in the basement, put them in a cross space,
40:01
Speaker 1: putting them up in the attic, which does happen. They
40:04
Speaker 1: want to.
40:05
Speaker 2: Still put those murder victims under the house, under the house.
40:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, John Wayne Gacy did that with I don't know
40:11
Speaker 1: it was what thirty thirty or approximately thirty young men.
40:15
Speaker 1: I think that that control element continues on after death.
40:21
Speaker 1: They still have the desire to control the circumstances in
40:24
Speaker 1: their life, to control those that they've always had control over,
40:28
Speaker 1: even in death. And yeah, you could say, well, Morgan,
40:31
Speaker 1: it's part of not wanting to get caught that you
40:35
Speaker 1: can kind of dictate the comings and goings. But I
40:38
Speaker 1: think it's something much deeper. It's a matter of individuals
40:43
Speaker 1: that want to say in their own way that I
40:47
Speaker 1: am in control of the world around me, and I
40:49
Speaker 1: defy anybody to find me guilty or maybe just accuse me.
40:56
Speaker 1: But in this case, Joseph for Lazzo in fact found
41:01
Speaker 1: guilty and now he'll spend probably the rest of his
41:04
Speaker 1: days in jail. Please hear me, right, If you are
41:10
Speaker 1: anyone that you know is suffering in a relationship involving
41:17
Speaker 1: domestic abuse. I urge you, with everything that is within
41:22
Speaker 1: me to reach out for help, and there is help.
41:25
Speaker 1: You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at one
41:29
Speaker 1: eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three. That's one
41:34
Speaker 1: eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three, or
41:39
Speaker 1: go to the hotline all one word dot org. That's
41:45
Speaker 1: the hot line dot org. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and
41:50
Speaker 1: this is Bodybacks