Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / Join the Josh Club!
Transcript
- 0:00Oh, yeah, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it's a day to celebrate!
- 0:30Wouldn't be great if I was a 1980s DJ, man, I was born in the wrong era.
- 0:35Yeah, welcome back to the greatest hits of the 70s and 90s.
- 0:39Who's Josh Zebs? Who's great day for celebration?
- 0:42The day where you're going to get a lot more content coming your way.
- 0:46Would you listen to that? Who listened to those things?
- 0:49It celebrates today, to that big day for the show, big day for you, if you're a fan of me and the show,
- 0:55and if you're not, what are you doing listening to this? Is this on in the background?
- 0:59Are you a child? Are you an infant whose parents are listening to this show right now?
- 1:03I guess there's some proportion of listeners who actually are.
- 1:07So, hello, if you're like eight, there must be, statistically, given how many listeners we have,
- 1:13there must be some eight-year-olds right now listening to this.
- 1:16Who are like, mum and dad always listen to Josh in the kitchen when they're making lunch in the morning,
- 1:21a fairly irresponsible thing to do, I should have thought, given the profane language and radical ideas
- 1:28that are sometimes propagated on this very broadcast.
- 1:31And so, to those people, hello, and here's a little celebration music.
- 1:36Here's a deal. This show has become more successful than I thought it would,
- 1:46and clearly there's an appetite for more stuff like this.
- 1:49So, here's a little wee experiment that we're launching, which is something called Substack.
- 1:52I don't know if you've heard of the Substack.
- 1:54It's very, all the kids in like podcast land and blog land are big on your Substack.
- 2:00It's this independent publishing platform where people can subscribe, individuals can subscribe,
- 2:06and get the content that they want directly from the content producers.
- 2:10So, we don't have to worry about publishers and networks and broadcast stations and licensees
- 2:15and editorial policies and whatever to get in between the producer of the content
- 2:21and the consumer of the content, or it's more like a bilateral relationship, really.
- 2:27It's less of a one-way street and becomes more of an interactive thing,
- 2:31where it's not just me vomiting myself into your ear holes.
- 2:35Grateful as those ear holes may be.
- 2:38But more of a, you telling me what you like and me doing my best to deliver it.
- 2:43That's the idea behind a Substack.
- 2:45And this week, we launch a Substack.
- 2:47Now, you may be one of those people who has already sent an email.
- 2:50No more need to send emails to uncomfyconvosedgmail.com unless you want to send feedback about the show.
- 2:56You can now go directly to Substack and just subscribe right there.
- 3:01Now, you don't need to pay anything to subscribe because there's a free subscription to you.
- 3:04And I'll explain that in a second.
- 3:06But go to uncomfortableconvitations.substack.com or you can Google it.
- 3:11Here's the thinking here.
- 3:13Quite apart from the fact that this gives us the ability to produce more content
- 3:17and I'll get intersect to what that content is.
- 3:19This is something of an experiment to see what the actual market value of what I do is
- 3:29if you remove people who hire and fire people in mainstream media.
- 3:35It's basically a way of asking you to vote on whether you think I should be free and independent
- 3:43or whether I should be shackled to the gatekeepers of the old school conventional media.
- 3:52And your vote is to either do nothing which is fine and continue consuming the podcast as you do,
- 3:58in which case I remain a part of the mainstream media ecosystem.
- 4:02And I suppose that is by default a vote from you for old school conventional media.
- 4:12Or if you want to vote for me to have the freedom for people like me who are interested in exploring the kinds of spaces
- 4:22that I'm interested in exploring, these kind of, I suppose I'll have to say nuance,
- 4:27even though that's a bit of a taboo word now.
- 4:29I'm not supposed to call things nuance because it's also that word has become a way for mostly right-wing households
- 4:35to claim that they're just asking questions.
- 4:38Living a nuanced conversation, man, of on the one hand, like anti-Semitism is bad,
- 4:44but on the other hand, you know, Hitler made some good points and the Jews do own a lot of stuff.
- 4:49It's just nuance, bro.
- 4:50So that's not the way that I use the term nuance.
- 4:52But if you know this show, then you know what I'm up to,
- 4:56which is to try and have conversations with people,
- 4:59I disagree with the maximum amount of generosity towards their point of view
- 5:04that we can find some accommodation and avert the inevitable civil war that civilization is careening towards.
- 5:13And when I have conversations with people I do agree with,
- 5:16I at least try to find the areas in which I can encourage them to think about the way that our shared agreement would be perceived by people
- 5:25who aren't in our club and who aren't inside our echo chamber.
- 5:29With the goal of, I suppose, stitching together some sort of consensus about the basic fact of the world that we live in
- 5:36and the challenges that we face and the things that we need to do to surmount them.
- 5:40And this is a very fun experience.
- 5:43This is not, I mean, when you phrase it like that, it sounds dull.
- 5:48But what I'm actually up to is getting my hands dirty having fascinating conversations with the world's most interesting people.
- 5:55And I want to do more of that.
- 5:57And I would love to do more of that with you simply voting with your feet and your wallet.
- 6:04No wallets will be involved yet, by the way.
- 6:08At the moment, this is just a gauge.
- 6:11This is simply a request for you to vote by going to substack uncomfortable conversations dot substack.com and signing up for free.
- 6:22There will be a few tears to this whole malaki.
- 6:26The existing podcast will remain free.
- 6:28You will always get one episode a week at the same rate that you've always got it.
- 6:32And that will always be free and it'll have ads on it.
- 6:35The paid subscription, which will be at $6.99 US a month.
- 6:41And by the way, I'm enjoying a delicious caffeinated beverage right here.
- 6:45You can even just do it.
- 6:52Now this costs $5.50.
- 6:55And I buy one every day.
- 6:57So for $6.99 for one, I can't do the maths now.
- 7:01What is that?
- 7:021.2 coffees for 1.2 coffee.
- 7:05Well, there's an exchange rate difference.
- 7:06So it's probably about 1.6 coffees per month.
- 7:10You'll be able to get no ads on the podcast ever.
- 7:15You'll have longer podcast episodes.
- 7:17And I do a little segment at the end of the at the end of each episode called first date questions
- 7:22where I pepper the guest with kind of raw shut questions.
- 7:25Like if you had a time machine, you could go back in time.
- 7:27Where would you go?
- 7:28Or like, you know, what gets better as you age or whatever those things are.
- 7:32From now on, those will only be available to paid subscribers.
- 7:36And we'll mix that up a little bit.
- 7:37It's not always going to be first date question.
- 7:39But there will be a sort of a 10 minute additional bonus segment at the end of every episode
- 7:43you'll only get if you're if you're a paid subscriber.
- 7:46All subscribers, including free ones, will get a weekly newsletter with links to some of the best segments
- 7:52that I've done on ABC radio directing you back to the ABC radio website.
- 7:55Because I know that not everybody has that easy access to the best radio segments that I do.
- 8:00So that will be a free perk regardless of whether or not you pay paid subscribers will get at least two special kind of one of a kind bonus shows every month
- 8:09that we don't you can't find anywhere else like ask me anything.
- 8:12So that you and I can sort of build a closer relationship between the things that you're interested in knowing about my world view and the things that I'm interested in discussing.
- 8:23Also the power of the Josh will be any frequent regular segment that someone suggested because they were like, we want to know about the things that you're interested in that aren't to do with culture and politics.
- 8:36Like I hear that you're great at travel hacking frequent flyer programs and flying first class for free. How do you do that?
- 8:44And I was like, well, that's just the power of the Josh that we should do that as a segment, maybe like my husband just interviews me or my producer just interviews me about some random shit.
- 8:53So there'll be a lot of like that kind of fun outside of the box. It's not just me in a in a brain bin with another brain like talking at each other kind of segments where you'll get much more of a feel for the playfulness and the overall irreverence of the show and my life.
- 9:11They'll that one thing that I'm super excited about, which will happen on the sub stack as well is we will regularly deliver some of my best ever interviews from other platforms like half post live and we're the people live my old podcast.
- 9:29One of the depressing vagaries of this digital age of ours is everything bloody disappears. I was looking for my classic interview and I say that in all humility.
- 9:42Not it was classic was bloody classic who needs to be humble when you're responsible for something that is classic with a capital C in fact not just a capital C it has a capital L as well and a capital A but then a lower case SSIC.
- 9:59Class was a class interview with Russell brand and it became iconic and then half post gets bought by I don't know global mega corp.
- 10:14Some gigantic telecommunications company and they're like no she's not actually profit up for us to be keeping all the video on the show that we need to go to be what was costing you like nine cents a year to keep those things online.
- 10:28It doesn't doesn't align with our corporate vision so they just wipe thousands of hours of gold and now you go online and this is the only thing you can hear from my interview by classic interview with Russell brand listen to this one minute.
- 10:46Did you get mistaken for gay were you over a little bit gay?
- 10:50I've never done that kind of game and that sort of flamboyant air that is sometimes associated with that persuasion.
- 10:56Yeah I mean I did once for a television program was a crack and heroin addict I once masturbated a man to the point of orgasm in a public bathroom but it was for television program.
- 11:06That's exactly the kind of thing that gay people tend not to do that closeted straight people that we're talking about before you know it's always what you find Republican senators doing.
- 11:14It's homophobic but I wasn't homophobic I was just young and on drugs and I thought what would happen if I do it it just happened to be in a bathroom because I couldn't find another gay man to do it.
- 11:23You know we need someone who's going to let us film them for heaven sake so you know obviously you're picking from a particular strata of society once you make the decision to film it.
- 11:31I must say it wasn't for me I didn't really enjoy it.
- 11:34My tendency in my inclination towards women is very very powerful I like them very much it's just a biological urge but like for me it's not this is not the arena for morality but if something exists in nature and is not harmful to people that are vulnerable then let it go.
- 11:50So that's Russell brand speaking with me the only reason why that exists is because some online gay publication ripped it back when it still did exist on a server farm somewhere and now they've embedded in their website but soon sure enough.
- 12:05Sure is the sands of times we put over our sarcophagi that too will be gone from the web fortunately though the listener and by the way wouldn't it be nice big hello to the eight year old children who are still listening about Russell brand masturbating a man to the point of orgasm you've got very good parents very responsive parents i'm glad they're maturing you so quickly as they make your peanut butter sandwiches.
- 12:34Actually not peanut butter because they'll probably kill a fellow child who's allergic to nuts i'll tell you what what's happening to the world these days am I right.
- 12:44Nonetheless I have copies of all of these fantastic interviews and I have no platform on which to release them except for here to you deal listener as regular bonus content on this show do you remember the interview that I did with sui park.
- 13:02The Asian American activist who was trying to get the Colbert rapport canceled were back when Stephen Colbert played a right wing character on TV after jobs due its daily show and he made fun of of an anti Asian racist.
- 13:17Bloke and in the satire he ostensibly made fun of Asian people because he was making fun he was satirizing anti Asian racism and so this activist tries to get him canceled and I interviewed her on half post live needless to say it didn't go very well.
- 13:37Cancel Colbert that's what some Twitter users are demanding after the Colbert rapport put out a now deleted tweet reading I'm willing to show Asian community I care by introducing the Ching Chong Ding Dong foundation for sensitivity to orientals or whatever.
- 13:55This set off a Twitter firestorm late Thursday night with people sounding off hashtag cancel Colbert because we really don't need another white liberal celebrity trying to justify racism using satire that ironically ridiculous Asians is not productive for indigenous or not any marginalized group white humor blows hashtag cancel colbert and the one that started all via sui park white people please keep hashtag cancel colbert trending until there's an apology this is not the burden of people of color fix it do something joining us now with the author of that very same tweet.
- 14:25Sui park and also still with us is half post politics reporter Jason Lincoln's thanks for being with us sui of course thanks for having me why cancel colbert what did you have to achieve with that.
- 14:37That's a loaded question I think it's sad but unfortunately a lot of times our demands aren't really met unless we have really serious asks or we generate these larger conversations unfortunately people usually don't listen to us when we're being reasonable so I think it's really to make a statement that this sort of thing happens weekly that Asian Americans are always a punchline.
- 14:57And so I think we're just trying to make a point that people will be held accountable the next time they do these sort of things.
- 15:02So just to clarify the context the tweet was related to a segment that was lampooning Dan Snyder who's the owner of a certain Washington DC football team that has a racist name it was meant to be satire I mean do you understand the point of satire that you say something that's intentionally absurd in order to ridicule not the people who are the target of what you're saying but the other people who might say it.
- 15:22Of course I understand satire I'm a writer I think satire cater so the audience that you're speaking to so it says something about what the audience finds humor is acceptable when you're using this sort of jokes and I think satire is supposed to punch up and unfortunately he's not doing that when he draws a parallel to orientalism to make a point about Native American mascots.
- 15:41But isn't his point that there are lots of stupid racist people who even in their attempt to be conciliatory on rice and up putting their foot in it and saying something dumb.
- 15:51I really don't think that we're going to end racism by joking about it like I'm glad that the white liberals feel like they are less racist because they can joke about people that are more explicitly racist but that actually does nothing to help people of color.
- 16:02Why why attack a satirical attack on dance not as racism instead of just attacking dance not as racism.
- 16:08Well if you're familiar with my activism or my work I've been very vocal about Native American mascots I went to the University of Illinois for my undergraduate career.
- 16:17We had chief Alina wet and I was incredibly vocal about it and I had the same sort of backlash and that kind of backlash happens no matter what you're really attacking whether it be you know the word oriental being used as a slur.
- 16:28Yellow face jokes against Asian American people or if I'm really just talking about Native American mascots and dance nighter.
- 16:34I know I helped trend not your mascot on Super Bowl night to fight you know the name red skins and not your tanto and I had the same sort of backlash so it really isn't fair to kind of individualize these things and ask why I'm not shifting my behavior because honestly if white liberals cared about really getting rid of the mascot there's a lot they can do to help organize or get involved besides caring about their joke.
- 16:55So for them it's not really about whether or not the red skins exist or whether or not racism is over it's really about them feeling like they can't have fun anymore I'm feeling entitled to be able to laugh at things that aren't really funny.
- 17:07Jason part of the whole the whole gag here is the use of the term orientalism which is such a weird old loaded like it's just it's a stupid stupid word.
- 17:16Word that but to get upset about that about the use of that word when it's in a satirical context strikes me as misguided I want to take a look though at a tweet which Colbert rapport has has tweeted out says for the record.
- 17:26But the white man hang on hang on so I'll come to you in just a sec for the record Colbert rapport is not controlled by Stephen Colbert or his show he is at Stephen at home sorry for the confusion Colbert himself has responded to some of the criticism on Twitter.
- 17:39Hashtag cancel Colbert I agree just saw at Colbert report tweet I share your rage who is that though I'm Stephen at home so you were just going to jump in.
- 17:48Yeah I was going to say that I feel like it's incredibly patronizing for you to paint these questions this way especially as a white man I don't expect you to be able to understand what people of color are actually seeing with regards to cancel Colbert he is a history of mixing jokes.
- 18:01So being a white man doesn't give doesn't prevent me from being able to think and doesn't prevent me from being able to have have thought reasons perspectives on things I don't I didn't give up my right to be able to have an intellectual conversation when I was born.
- 18:14I know but well white men definitely feel like they are entitled to talk over me they definitely feel like they're entitled to kind of minimize my experiences and they definitely feel like they are somehow exempt and so logical compared to women who are painted as emotional right.
- 18:27No no one's minimizing your your experiences no one's minimizing your right to have an opinion it's just a stupid opinion I mean it's a it's a misunderstanding of what you just called my opinion stupid that's incredibly unproductive and I don't think I'm going to enact the labor of having to explain to you why that's incredibly offensive and patronizing explain.
- 18:50I just told you I went in at the labor.
- 18:52Okay thanks for being with us.
- 18:56Jason what do you make of this?
- 18:59I don't know I just I just was informed by a young woman that I actually don't have the right or the occasion to say anything on this matter so I suppose I will decline.
- 19:14Good point good point as a white man you're not allowed to have any beliefs thanks for being with us Jason great to talk to you.
- 19:19Nothing say true plenty more conversations coming up right here on our first live.
- 19:23So that wasn't exactly my finest moment I don't think.
- 19:29Nonetheless I do look back on it now from the perspective of the kind of culture wars right now and what is and isn't possible in the mainstream media.
- 19:40And I sort of shake my head at my own audacity for better or worse at even getting into that conversation in the first place.
- 19:50Would I do it now?
- 19:52Would I have that conversation today could you have that conversation today?
- 19:59In a mainstream media outlet on my radio show for the public broadcaster I mean would I get censured?
- 20:09Would I get fired?
- 20:13A white man telling a woman of color that her opinion about racism is stupid.
- 20:25It's almost inconceivable.
- 20:29But the reality is her opinion was stupid.
- 20:35If anything in the intervening years we're doing a worse and worse job but being able to be clear about what's stupid and what's not.
- 20:45I don't think you have a monopoly on understanding bigotry just because you come from a minority like you can certainly articulate to me your lived experience which I'll never understand.
- 20:58I will never understand what it's like to walk through a majority white society as an Asian woman.
- 21:07But she will never understand what it's like to walk through a majority straight society as a gay man or to walk through a majority.
- 21:17I think it's like a secular society as someone of Jewish heritage as an anti-Semitic society as someone of Jewish heritage.
- 21:26There are all kinds of things that all of us go through that we don't understand and our ability to converse with each other about a common human experience rather than our own kind of possessive victimization.
- 21:40Where we're each trying to trump each other with the more unique and more special form of victimhood.
- 21:48Our ability to stitch together this kind of fabric of common dialogue and common humanity is becoming increasingly eroded and the mainstream media is not helping because it's making it harder and harder to call bullshit.
- 22:01This is where your vote comes in.
- 22:04This is where I'm asking you to join me to go to uncomfortable conversations dot sub stack dot com and simply enter your email and subscribe.
- 22:15There's no as I say no money is changing hands at the moment.
- 22:19So here's what's going to happen.
- 22:21There's a free tier. The free tier will always give you access to a weekly newsletter and to like comment threads and comment boards if you want to chat about the basically makes you part of the community right there'll be ongoing conversations about each episode of the podcast.
- 22:39You'll have an online online access to my sub stack and to the conversations that are happening there and you'll be able to shout at me if you wish to which apparently many of you do.
- 22:48And also compliment me and discuss discuss what some of the guests have said and you'll get that weekly newsletter which will direct you which will have it all in one place the easiest way for you to access some of the best audio content that I put out during the week much of which of course is not on this show I mean I host three hours of radio every single day.
- 23:06So some portion of that all of the highlights will go up on the ABC website and the ABC listen app and unless you're an extremely diligent Joshua file you are missing all of that so the weekly newsletter gives you a way of getting all of that and directing you to the best bits of Josh every single week in a single click that's all free that will always be free that's all I'm asking you to sign up for now.
- 23:32Then the paid subscription 699 a month or 69 dollars a year he he 69 he said 69 how Elon Musk of me that is where you'll get all of the bonus content at least another couple of episodes every month.
- 23:50The bone at the longer podcast episodes the no ads the ask me anything the power of the Joshes the archived we the people lives the archive tough post lives all of that stuff comes with 699 but here's the kicker here's the kicker.
- 24:08You're going to get all of that for the first two months while we're trying to iron out some kinks and find our feet and figure out what we're doing all of that on all of the free subscription levels as well.
- 24:38That's right everybody gets a car you all get it you're going to get everything for the next two months quickly go to uncomfort conversations on topstack.com quickly you're going to I would be so bad.
- 24:56I would be the worst 1980s DJ you get a car you get a car so quickly go see the see the sense of urgency that I created just there.
- 25:08This is what they teach you in marketing school in my brain I've never been to marketing school but in my brain they go you know what you need to do you need to tell people to to go you should play some peppy music and I go what kind of peppy music and they go how about cool on the game and I go like this.
- 25:25And then go yeah yeah and then over the music you should say go to uncomfortable conversations on topstack.com inside up now ladies and gentlemen boys and girls all that free staff coming your way the next two months you be charged zero dollars all tiers get all the benefits all the bonus episodes for everybody even on the preacher.
- 25:55I'm really tempted to just let the song run and just never say anything else for the rest of the episode and you'll just be sitting there going hmm.
- 26:12It's been a couple minutes of the song now it's just coming back is that it and then the song just ends and then I put on about 10 minutes of just dead air you go is he come was that it is that was that the whole the substack launch and then you just left us with the song and then after 10 minutes I just find another song.
- 26:30And you go oh is he doing now he's got is this I'm so excited I get it Josh is saying that he's so excited to be launching a substack but are we going to hear from Josh again or is he just now are we just now getting a long succession of loosely themed tracks about how excited he is and how he's celebrating.
- 26:54See that would be good but that would alienate you and be sort of self indulgent and I'm not going to do that to you any who I think you get the you get the just now you get the com tours of what are on about.
- 27:05Go to uncomfortable conversation to substack.com and just enter your email and subscribe if you have already sent an email as I said to uncomfy combos at gmail.com saying can you subscribe me don't worry you don't have to do that but this week you should receive your initial subscription emails and you welcome emails and all that sort of stuff as it rolls out over the course of the week if you don't then something's gone screwy at the back end and you should probably just subscribe again.
- 27:32As I say this is not just to get all of the benefits but the benefits will be substantial and overwhelming and fantastic for the next two months I mean this is a great summer this will be a great summer treat if you're in the southern hemisphere and a lovely winter treat if you're in the northern hemisphere to have a lot more content from me and all of it free so you might as well at least get that.
- 27:54And it's not like by subscribing you're automatically you're going to have to enter your credit card information now and then automatically get enrolled and you have to come back and be subscribed or something or like it is none of that nonsense it's just i'm giving it all to you regardless of the tier you sign up for so if you want to go all in now and start paying money then that's fantastic and I appreciate it but don't feel any obligation to do that at all or we're trying to do now is just get a sense of like what is the what is the pool that we're talking about here.
- 28:24Like how many votes am I getting i'm basically running for class presidents and i'm asking for your vote and all you have to do to vote is to go on comfortable conversations dot sub stack dot com and subscribe and that's simply a way of saying yeah I'd kind of like to live in a world where I'm not governed by.
- 28:41My traditional media gatekeepers and where i'm not governed by social media algorithms where i'm voting directly for the media outlets and the media people who I think are doing a fair income job as we would say in Australia who I think a legit and are trying to do the best and if you think that's me then enter your email at uncomfortable conversation dot sub stack dot com and if you don't then what are you doing listening to this stupid podcast.
- 29:11Too many shows these days are afraid I believe they're afraid of angering sensorious conservatives they're afraid of angering woke bullies I don't think I am but i'm limited in my ability to really get out there as long as i'm in the conventional media ecosystem and this is just an experiment to see whether or not it's possible to.
- 29:33Depart that system and you are the person who has the power to make that decision.
- 29:41So that's the initial pitch essentially I want you to vote for a world in which gatekeepers don't control what you hear I want you to vote against the group think that we get from so much mainstream media I want you to vote against the snack that you get from social media I want you to vote for a world that is less toxic.
- 30:00And less judgmental and less insane I want you to vote for a world that's more rambunctious and more enlivening and more enlightened and I get that you have an infinite number of choices of what to support if you already support people on sub stack then i'm sure there are a bunch of great things that you're already paying for.
- 30:20Paying for the only difference here is that you're choosing to essentially free and almost broke like me from having to count how to big media money it's your voting for essentially a transition and at 6.99 I think that's a bloody bargain.
- 30:42At zero dollars for the next two months it's a no brainer.
- 30:48Pull out your phone right now go on pull out your phone and come to conversation.substake.com just subscribe get two months of amazing bonus content that you can't get anywhere else for any price for free and submit a vote this is your vote that says you like this show.
- 31:04Do it now I'm gonna go and walk away and give you three minutes and twenty seconds of a song about how today was the greatest day of my life see you next week.
- 32:05I don't want any more.
- 32:11And I will never read a piece for what I wish you on.
- 32:22I'll see you next week.
- 32:26Today's the greatest day of my life can't wait until now.
- 32:37I'm not going to have it all until I have it all.
- 32:43I'll see you next week.
- 33:13Today's the greatest day of my life can't wait until now.
- 33:43I'll see you next week.
- 34:13I'll see you next week.
- 34:43Bye.