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How Living in an Unresolved Tension Shaped Russ Cline's Fatherhood · I Don't Know You

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm Matt.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a Jesus follower,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: husband,
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  SPEAKER_00: father,
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  SPEAKER_00: son,
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  and friend who is deeply curious about people's creativity and
• 0:13
  how we unleash our
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: unique talents onto a world that needs them.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Today, I'm joined by one of my mentors
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: and bosses, Russ Klein.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's a pastor,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: family man,
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  and entrepreneur who has started multiple global organizations
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  and currently leads
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: the Barnabas Group,
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  a place where business leaders share their time and talents
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  with Jesus-led
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  SPEAKER_00: nonprofits.
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  SPEAKER_00: We talk about one of the biggest questions in my life right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: how to manage the tension of building a sustainable,
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: fruitful career and how to be a great present parent.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Those things seem to be at odds in my life at times.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
• 0:46
  like we were just saying you and I can talk about anything
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  forever and so I think
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: the main thing that I kind of wanted to talk about
• 0:59
  today is around like leadership specifically with like career
• 1:04
  and then fatherhood
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  and like that being kind of the theme for it and I've been
• 1:12
  messing around with this
• 1:13
  format at the beginning of these conversations where we share
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  like I share a quote
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  and then we go into kind of that being the umbrella or the
• 1:23
  theme for it and I was
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  SPEAKER_00: trying to think of like what sums up
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  kind of what I want to talk about and was looking through the
• 1:32
  newsletter that you
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  SPEAKER_00: have every week,
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  SPEAKER_00: which if you're not listening to that newsletter,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: you should.
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  Yeah,
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  your daily Tuesday or your weekly Tuesday time with Russ
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  newsletter.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it's called, right?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Tuesday at 2.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so good.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a weekly appointment.
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  SPEAKER_01: Just a simple leadership.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been doing that for like a long time.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: A long time.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know how long, but probably 10 years.
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  but the I think it was a quote from a couple weeks ago that
• 2:03
  kind of hit on this
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  idea and maybe as we have this conversation kind of a theme for
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  it was from this
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  guy what's his name oh Tim let's see Tim Roth Tom Rath Tom Rath
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  there we go close
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  but the the quote that the format that you have that I really
• 2:33
  like a lot is you you
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  have these quotes and then you kind of go a little deeper and
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  then a little deeper
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  and a little deep and it's like such a nice way it's so
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  accessible as like a email
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  because it's like oh I have two minutes I can read a little
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  deeper and then oh I
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  have 10 minutes I can go to the deepest level or whatever and
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  then the juiciest
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  part is always like what you've been up to at the very end it's
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  like oh he's
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  SPEAKER_01: watching
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  whatever Netflix show now I can talk to him that's the
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  important stuff mm-hmm but
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  what he said in and what you were talking about in your
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  newsletter if you spend
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  your life trying to be good at everything you'll never be great
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  at anything and you
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  SPEAKER_00: kind of applied that to your strengths and leadership and
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  SPEAKER_00: and the focus that you have within those areas.
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  But I kind of want to push it in a different direction and
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  think about it a little
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  SPEAKER_00: bit more in a different way.
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  SPEAKER_00: And kind of as we start,
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  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask as you look back,
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  what did you choose to be great at and what did you kind of
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  allow to be good
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  SPEAKER_00: enough?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: when I saw that quote,
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  SPEAKER_01: Tom Rath is one of my favorite authors,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I followed his work for a long time.
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  SPEAKER_01: And he's written a lot on strength,
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  but he's also written a lot about health and he's been on a
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  personal health
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  SPEAKER_01: journey.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I've learned a lot from him along that way.
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  SPEAKER_01: But when he's talking about,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: if you don't,
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  SPEAKER_01: if you try to be great at everything,
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  SPEAKER_01: you'll never be great at anything.
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  SPEAKER_01: I
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  I spent a career doing a lot of different things and I learned
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  early on what what
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  I'm naturally good at and I've also learned early on what I'm
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  not good at and for a
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  long time I tried to you know Ralph talks about this a lot and
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  Marcus Buckingham
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  talked about a lot the idea that when you focus on your your
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  weaknesses it actually
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  SPEAKER_01: pulls your strengths down
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  SPEAKER_01: and you become mediocre at everything.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I did that for a long time.
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  Tried to bring my weaknesses up instead of really focusing on
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  my strengths.
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  And finally,
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  I don't know when it was,
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  but I just realized this is how God made me.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is who I am.
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  SPEAKER_01: I got to lean into that.
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  SPEAKER_01: But the hardest part of that was admitting where I was weakest.
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  SPEAKER_01: And once you get past,
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  SPEAKER_01: once you can get over your ego,
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  SPEAKER_01: once you can admit that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: the reality is we all have weaknesses.
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  SPEAKER_01: We all aren't great.
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  I mean,
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  I know some people that are great at a lot of things,
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  but all of us have weaknesses.
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  And the earliest,
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  the earlier I can identify those,
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  the better I'm going to be.
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  Because what that means is I didn't find people to help me with
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  those weaknesses.
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  But I think for me as a young leader,
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  it was really figuring out what am I good at?
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  SPEAKER_01: What can I do well that maybe some other people can?
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  SPEAKER_01: How do I bring my best self to the table or to a team?
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  SPEAKER_01: And how do I live out those strengths?
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I learned early on that I don't want to be mediocre.
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  I need to lean in what I'm good at and then not be afraid of
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  the things I'm not good at.
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  SPEAKER_00: What did you choose to be great at?
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  SPEAKER_01: I think if we're talking about leadership, I'm a dreamer.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm a visionary.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love to build things.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love to create things.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love to see organizations flourish.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love to learn and grow.
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  SPEAKER_01: I like that aspect of it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a good maintainer.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the details don't do well with me.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm more in the entrepreneur category.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love to spot opportunities and go after them,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I'm not good at living there for a long time.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I often need to find fresh new things to do.
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  But I also realize that that's a weakness because sometimes I
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  don't finish things.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about what's next.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of been my career,
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  SPEAKER_01: whether it be in the church or in business or in nonprofit.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of where I land.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I enjoy that.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I also find that I could speak into people that are
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  SPEAKER_01: that are trying to figure that out for themselves.
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  So helping people identify what their strengths are and what
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  their maybe weaknesses are.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love helping people identify that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's not me pointing it out.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's helping us discover that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because I had to discover that too.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, some things are easy to see.
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  SPEAKER_01: Some things you have to dig through.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  you have to kind of like work through the experience of trying
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  different things and
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  SPEAKER_00: failing.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I have plenty of failure to learn from.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think everybody does.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's something we all have in common as human beings.
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  But I'm so curious kind of like the going back to kind of your
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  upbringing and stuff.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm so curious, like you grew up internationally.
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  in Ecuador as like a missionary kid you spent your education
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  there and kind of like
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  early career like you you went back and forth there basically
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  and I'm so curious
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  about like how did that kind of shape you living like growing
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  up in another country
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  and having like a different culture to be a part of yeah and
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  how did that like help
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  SPEAKER_00: you view the world I guess yeah
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  SPEAKER_01: I actually moved to Latin America when I was 11.
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  SPEAKER_01: We had traveled as a family through Central and South America.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I was exposed to it.
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  SPEAKER_01: But in Mexico, I mean, as a two-year-old, I was in Mexico.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I was exposed to the world in Latin America.
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  Moved to Ecuador when I was 11 years old and had an incredible
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  experience junior
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  SPEAKER_01: high in high school.
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  SPEAKER_01: I saw the world,
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  SPEAKER_01: understood that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: everything wasn't US centric,
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  SPEAKER_01: understood there's another way of life.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was a different pace, different posture.
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  SPEAKER_01: We were in a very international community.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it was people from all over the world, not just North America.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I had friends from many different countries.
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  SPEAKER_01: So again, it changed that whole posture.
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  when I came back to university I you know there's a couple
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  things I said I want to
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  be a global citizen I want that to be a part of my life
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  whatever I do I want that
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  to be part of my life because it was so rich and valuable and I
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  actually had a hard
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  time back in North America because I felt like man you're we're
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  missing out on so
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  much here I love being back in North America but again
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  comparing the two I felt
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  like there's just this richness again I never wanted to go back
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  I never wanted to
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  SPEAKER_01: move back overseas I wanted
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  SPEAKER_01: I wanted global to be a part of our life, not to be our life.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yet, God had another plan.
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  SPEAKER_01: 12 years after coming back to college,
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  SPEAKER_01: I moved my family and we went back to Ecuador to start a new work,
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  SPEAKER_01: to do something different.
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  SPEAKER_01: But again, it was my desire to, I want my kids to understand the world.
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  SPEAKER_01: I want them to have friends with different cultures.
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  SPEAKER_01: I want them to see that the world is so big and so broad and so diverse.
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  And Southern California,
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  it's a great view,
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  but man,
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  there's so much more to it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we traveled with our kids.
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  SPEAKER_01: We exposed them to as much as we could.
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  and that made us who we are and again I'm much less critical
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  now than I used to be
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  I used to be very critical on both sides I mean there are
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  things in Ecuador that
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  were just really difficult as there are things in North America
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  that are difficult
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  there is no perfect place and perfect culture but what I found
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  is an appreciation
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  for both and then as I began working I began getting exposed to
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  other places so I
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  remember one time I had an opportunity to go to Asia and I just
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  said man I
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  I've never been there I don't really have a lot of interest in
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  that I barely know
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  Latin America I want to learn more there and then I had an
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  opportunity to go to the
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  Philippines and it just changed my life and I oh my word it
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  opened up this whole
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  other world and deep friendships and relationships and work and
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  all that and same
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  thing happened in Africa I had an opportunity to go to Southern
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  Africa and again I
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  SPEAKER_01: knew people from there but I was like man I
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  SPEAKER_01: There's so much to learn in Latin America and North America.
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  SPEAKER_01: How do I have this?
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  SPEAKER_01: I went and I just opened up all these other site.
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  SPEAKER_01: I try to become a global citizen.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, Europe, spent time in Eastern and Western Europe.
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  SPEAKER_01: And again, I want to continue to learn.
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  SPEAKER_01: There's still a lot of places on the planet that I haven't been.
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  SPEAKER_01: I still want to learn.
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  SPEAKER_01: I still want to understand what that is.
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  But I'm richer because of those relationships,
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  of those places,
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  the culture,
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  the diversity.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's made me better.
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  Is there a place that's top of your list that you really want
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  to make it out to?
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you mean travel?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Or go back to?
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  SPEAKER_00: travel to that you've never been?
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, Gina and I have, my wife and I, we have a list.
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  And there are some places we want to go and some places we want
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  to go back to.
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  SPEAKER_01: So probably top of our list, Spain.
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  SPEAKER_01: We've never spent time in Spain.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's something we're intrigued by.
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  SPEAKER_01: We should do that together.
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  SPEAKER_01: We should.
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  SPEAKER_01: We've done...
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  SPEAKER_01: Central and Southern Italy.
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  SPEAKER_01: We've never done Northern Italy and that's on our list.
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  SPEAKER_01: Croatia is on our list.
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  SPEAKER_01: But again, there are countries in Latin America.
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  SPEAKER_01: There are places in Africa.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are places around the world we'd go to.
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  SPEAKER_01: We will go anywhere.
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  SPEAKER_01: But we have a list.
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  SPEAKER_01: We have some goals.
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  SPEAKER_01: We have an anniversary coming up next year.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're talking now about what that could be because it'll be an epic trip.
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  SPEAKER_01: Probably someplace new that we both can explore together.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's what we want.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you want some
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  SPEAKER_00: other people on that epic trip.
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  SPEAKER_01: Probably not on my anniversary trip, but anyway.
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  SPEAKER_00: Spain.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh man,
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  there's so much there because I feel like I've gotten just a
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  tiny taste of that
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  SPEAKER_00: idea of the global citizen and like getting outside of the,
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: growing up in Orange County,
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  having that OC bubble and like understanding just how small you
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  are in the grand
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  SPEAKER_00: scheme of the world when you go to these different places and
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  Comparatively I have not been to that many places but yeah the
• 12:23
  few places that I
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  have been to I think just you realize how similar we are in so
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  many ways and how
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  diverse we are and the beauty in that and how you like how do
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  you bring your own
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  SPEAKER_00: like
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  SPEAKER_00: uniqueness to a world that is so diverse and similar in the same way.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious,
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  kind of like going a little bit backwards to like your
• 12:49
  upbringing in Ecuador
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  SPEAKER_00: specifically,
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  SPEAKER_00: was there a time
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  that like a moment when you kind of realize like oh like and
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  maybe it maybe it
• 12:57
  wasn't this term leadership but was there like an affinity
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  towards that leadership
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  idea of like oh I think I'm really good at this is there was
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  there like a moment
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  that you were like oh like this is something I want to chase
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  and kind of go act
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  SPEAKER_00: like that vision wonder entrepreneur ship deal I I think
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everyone has different opportunities for leadership.
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  I had many opportunities to be a leader,
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  whether it be in a youth group or in our school.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, my parents are both leaders.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I always had opportunities to lead.
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  My junior year of high school,
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  I had a school mentor who I ran for student body president.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I had a mentor who just said, Russ, you can do this.
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  SPEAKER_01: Step out of your, you know, more of a formal leadership role.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: and he just said, you can do this.
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  His name was Randy and he just kind of believed in me and
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  pushed me a little bit.
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  And I stepped into it and then he walked with me and I really
• 13:57
  liked the formal leadership role.
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  That's probably I've been captain of a basketball team and I've
• 14:03
  had different
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: roles,
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  SPEAKER_01: but that was a that was a really formal.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was elected to an office.
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  SPEAKER_01: I had a leadership position.
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  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like in a little school, international school?
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  SPEAKER_01: Again,
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  SPEAKER_01: It was a role that defined me.
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  SPEAKER_00: Someone seeing that in you.
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  SPEAKER_01: Someone seeing it and calling me out.
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  I think my parents just said,
• 14:23
  oh,
• 14:23
  Russ,
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  you're going to naturally do that.
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  SPEAKER_01: I played in band and I did sports and all that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: But this guy said, I'm going to push you.
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  Interesting enough,
• 14:34
  when I was in university,
• 14:35
  I had another mentor who did the exact same thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: and it was around student government.
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  SPEAKER_01: And he challenged me to run for student office.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I ran for student body president of my college and was elected.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And he said the same thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: He says, Russ, you're a leader.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was working in a ministry on campus.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, Gina and I were involved together and having a great time.
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  SPEAKER_01: He just really challenged me.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to push you out of your comfort zone.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is a government role on campus and I'm going to walk with you.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he mentored me.
• 15:05
  His name was Guy and he mentored me through that year and I
• 15:08
  learned a ton.
• 15:09
  But I really learned and I could push myself and do some things
• 15:13
  that might be uncomfortable.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: and learn and be exposed in some new ways, fail at some things.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: But both of those experiences,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: more in the formal realm of leadership,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think really shaped me a little bit.
• 15:25
  That's fascinating because I feel like that's giving me clarity
• 15:30
  and context as to
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: our relationship.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: As my boss, basically, with the work that we're doing with Barnabas, that
• 15:41
  gives me insight into like how you mentor me and and lead me in
• 15:47
  in like that Randy
• 15:48
  guy way of just like yeah I think you can like do better in
• 15:51
  this I think yeah I'm
• 15:53
  gonna challenge you in this way and I've often wondered like
• 15:57
  what is that that like
• 15:59
  because it's hard to be challenged in in the ways that I think
• 16:03
  you call me up in
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: that sometimes and it's like oh
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now I have a little more context for that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: What's funny is I don't go back to Randy and Guy a lot,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: but just talking about them,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a lot from them.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it was they pushed me,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: they challenged me,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: they did call me out,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: and they gave me some expectations.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it was the first time that I was forced to step into that.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And again, whether I succeed or not was up to me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they gave me the space to do that.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 16:41
  Yeah I'm just kind of putting that together now hearing that
• 16:45
  and I think like that
• 16:46
  has been because I've learned so much through the leadership
• 16:51
  that you've the way
• 16:53
  that you've led me as like an employee for lack of a better way
• 16:57
  of saying that but
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: then also as a mentor and a mentee where it's like oh I get I get the the
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: challenger piece and then like
• 17:06
  the challenger and freedom to fail where it's like yeah I'm
• 17:10
  here to support but
• 17:11
  also like you have your own agency and like figure this out and
• 17:16
  I'll be here if you
• 17:17
  need help but like you can figure this out and I believe in you
• 17:21
  and I know that you
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: can
• 17:24
  and I think like there's not a lot of people in my life that
• 17:26
  have it's almost
• 17:28
  always gone the other way which I'm super grateful for but the
• 17:31
  more supportive way
• 17:32
  around like literally supporting and being the scaffolding
• 17:37
  rather than like well
• 17:38
  actually maybe it's time to like do bouldering without like a
• 17:42
  harness and a safety
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: rope or whatever but there's a big crash pad underneath you
• 17:48
  and if you fall 15 feet like yeah you're not gonna die but
• 17:52
  you're gonna learn some
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: stuff and you're not gonna want to do that again.
• 17:55
  There was a woman in college her name was Carolyn and she was a
• 17:58
  mentor as well and
• 17:59
  I worked for her and we were running some projects in Mexico
• 18:05
  and she had hired me
• 18:07
  to stay on for the summer and basically she wanted me to go do
• 18:12
  some strategic
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: partnership building in Baja Mexico for the summer and
• 18:18
  you know she hired me I was like stretching what a great job so
• 18:21
  I walked into her
• 18:21
  and I said all right what do I do she says I have no idea she
• 18:28
  says here's your
• 18:30
  budget here's a vehicle go she said you figure it out I never
• 18:37
  had anyone that gave
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: me that kind of freedom but also that that belief and that trust yeah
• 18:43
  and I looked at that and went oh this is going to be incredible
• 18:46
  and I had an
• 18:47
  incredible summer and again there were some guidelines and some
• 18:50
  responsibilities
• 18:51
  but she gave me a ton of freedom I ate a lot of tacos that
• 18:55
  summer I lived with a
• 18:56
  Mexican family it was great and I did things that no one else
• 19:00
  in that role had done
• 19:01
  before but she gave me the freedom and said you figured that
• 19:05
  out and there was a
• 19:06
  purpose for what I was doing but you go figure it out and she
• 19:09
  goes I was 20 years
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: old
• 19:12
  I mean,
• 19:13
  you don't give someone a car and some cash and say,
• 19:15
  go to Mexico and do what you want.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But because she did, I took it really seriously.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it wasn't without expectation, I would imagine.
• 19:24
  Where it was like,
• 19:25
  no,
• 19:25
  I'm giving you this responsibility because I trust you enough
• 19:28
  to do this.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm expecting you to be successful on some level in this.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like I could ask her for help.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: The funny thing is I wanted to prove to her I could do it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the expectations were self-imposed.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked hard that summer.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it was freeing.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was great.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was challenging.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I learned.
• 19:50
  I love that independent opportunity to show my stuff and to
• 19:56
  say,
• 19:56
  I can do this.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that challenge, I love that.
• 20:00
  well one of the challenges that you built years and years ago
• 20:05
  around I mean when
• 20:06
  you went back to Ecuador and I don't know how long were you in
• 20:11
  Ecuador before
• 20:12
  leaders started or did you start that as you kind of got there
• 20:17
  oh I moved my family
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: to Ecuador in 1994 okay and later with y'all began in 2007 yeah okay
• 20:24
  um but i'm curious kind of fast forwarding to that that first
• 20:28
  kind of summit that
• 20:29
  you did with leader um what was kind of the dream in that room
• 20:36
  with those leaders
• 20:37
  that were there because it's like 30 something leaders yeah
• 20:39
  that you started that
• 20:40
  with we had we had begun an organization called youth world
• 20:43
  that was uh training
• 20:45
  youth workers in latin america and that that's what we did in
• 20:48
  1994 and we built an
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: organization and built a team and
• 20:51
  and we're having the time of our life really focused on youth
• 20:55
  ministry and young
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: people and helping the church and missions community.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just really everything around youth ministry.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And somewhere along the way,
• 21:05
  I went from training and coaching and helping leaders to
• 21:09
  running an organization.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: and that was hard for me because it was,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: administration,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: it was conflict,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: it was finance,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: it was infrastructure.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I enjoyed that to a degree, but that's not my strength.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was all the stuff that you just said was not.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I could do it for a period of time, but I'd kind of hit the time.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I also realized that as we worked with leaders,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:34
  originally it was talking about youth culture and youth
• 21:37
  ministry and all that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: The conversation changed to leadership.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: and they were asking different questions.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: They were asking questions like, how do you run an organization?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: How do you create vision?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: How do you manage your family?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they were asking bigger questions.
• 21:50
  And as I saw that shift,
• 21:51
  I was like,
• 21:52
  I want to help answer those questions.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I realized that someone else can come and run the youth role.
• 21:58
  And I brought in a guy,
• 21:59
  a good friend of mine,
• 22:00
  who was a pastor and a shepherd and a leader and
• 22:03
  and he came in and really brought stability to youth world and
• 22:06
  helped us continue to grow.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I then pivoted and said,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to find some leaders that need some help that I can leverage.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're all running other organizations.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to pour into them and help them be more successful.
• 22:21
  And so Leader Mundial was born in 2007 and that first community
• 22:24
  was 13 global
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: leaders that we brought from seven or eight different countries.
• 22:28
  We brought them in and then we matched them with a coach from
• 22:31
  North America
• 22:33
  and we built a community and it really became a learning
• 22:35
  coaching community and the
• 22:36
  idea was let's learn and grow together let's all learn from our
• 22:39
  strengths let's
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: learn from our weaknesses let's grow together and then let's apply it
• 22:44
  in each of these countries,
• 22:45
  in each of these cultural contexts,
• 22:47
  let's apply it differently.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: But that truly, you know, I use the term global citizen.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Really what I'm talking about is talking about kingdom.
• 22:54
  I'm talking about people that cared about God's kingdom
• 22:57
  wherever they were.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's come to the table and let's help each other make a bigger impact.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that began this 20 year journey of building these communities,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: helping leaders grow and develop.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I built that community not because I'm an expert.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I built it because I wanted a seat at the table
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: and I wanted to learn with them.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to contribute.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be a part of that conversation.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's been an incredible ride.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so curious,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 23:24
  what is something over the last 20 years of being a part of
• 23:28
  this community and
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: helping foster it that's happened that you didn't necessarily expect?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think...
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many things I could talk for a long time on that topic.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of key things I learned was one, we built this community.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: The idea was we have global leaders that need help and we have business
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: professionals that have skills.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you create that model,
• 23:57
  the idea is the coaches are coming in to give the help and the
• 24:00
  leaders are going to
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: receive it.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: That was the original model.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: What we learned really quick was that
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not only did the leaders need help, but the coaches needed help.
• 24:12
  And so what we learned really quickly was that we're learning
• 24:15
  community and we're
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: all learning from each other.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: There is no one that has all the answers.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can stand up and teach.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not teaching because I know it all.
• 24:22
  I'm teaching because I'm willing to share what I don't know and
• 24:25
  what I'm learning.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so the idea that we're all learning together and even in any coaching
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: conversation I have,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Matt,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: you and I,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would say we have a coaching relationship.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of work with me, but I'm also mentoring you a little bit.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm investing in you, but I'm also learning from you.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so whether you know it or not, you're contributing to my development.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm learning things.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: often you'll say something and I'll write it down because I'm like,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: and it's not just the tech stuff.
• 24:55
  I'm learning from you and I love that posture and I think we
• 24:58
  get in trouble when we
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: think that we know it all and so I often say to people that want to coach
• 25:03
  especially nonprofit leaders I said come in and have a
• 25:06
  conversation but be open
• 25:08
  because your life is going to be changed and what I've seen
• 25:11
  over the years
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: is I've seen leaders.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen leaders change.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen their ministries, their organizations completely transformed.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've also seen these coaches.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen their businesses.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen their families.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen their communities.
• 25:25
  I've seen them completely transformed by these leaders lives
• 25:30
  and this community.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was just at a gathering this week and it was so evident the impact
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: that this community had on this guy's life.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was so evident.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was an aha.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't think that would happen.
• 25:44
  But when it happened,
• 25:45
  I went,
• 25:45
  that's what I want to do the rest of my life.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to create space for people to grow and learn together.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much value in that because I need that.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like as I get older, that becomes so much of the
• 26:00
  kind of imperative that I have in life is like what do how do I
• 26:03
  create the things
• 26:04
  that I want to like live into and I mean even the opportunity
• 26:09
  of of growing and
• 26:10
  building the emerging leaders group with Barnabas is like
• 26:14
  that's so much of what I
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: crave and I that's so funny that you're talking about it as this mutually
• 26:21
  beneficial where it is like yeah even being a part of the
• 26:26
  summit like a couple
• 26:27
  years ago with leader and seeing like it wasn't just you or
• 26:31
  your dad going up there
• 26:32
  it was like all of the people that are a part of that community
• 26:36
  contributing and
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: helping learn from each other whether they were on the business aisle
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: or the ministry aisle or whatever.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't differentiate between those two aisles.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what we found is business is ministry and ministry is business.
• 26:54
  And once you get rid of those labels,
• 26:56
  you actually truly can learn from each other.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 27:02
  Okay so you've spent a lot of your life ministry and career
• 27:06
  kind of helping leaders
• 27:08
  be better and grow and you've grown from them kind of around
• 27:13
  the world but I'm
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: curious like what do you think leaders get wrong most of the time?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's a loaded question.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's a large question interpret that how you will.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: What do leaders get wrong?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think one is we don't understand our potential.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: We underestimate what we actually can do.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so we settle for mediocrity.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen that in my own life at times.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're afraid.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so we hold back.
• 27:51
  And so helping people understand the potential and the
• 27:53
  opportunity and what they're
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: actually capable of,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think leaders get caught in that.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I had a mentor tell me way back,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: guy named Jim and he said, leaders quit for two reasons.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: One is they quit because they don't know what to do.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And two, they quit because they burn out.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that to be true in every community I'm involved in.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that true in my own life.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: The idea that as leaders, we have to keep learning is essential.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: The world's changing.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: We have to keep learning.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love to learn.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love to read.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love to learn things that are so far outside my scope.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just intrigued by that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to be expert at that, but I want to learn.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: But the other thing is then learning parameters.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: How do you live a healthy life?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do you live in balance?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do you find rhythm?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: How do you make sure that you avoid that burnout?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you burn out, you lose everything.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so really trying to find a way to live in a healthy way,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think those have been the two things that have helped me.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am constantly battling for rhythm.
• 28:55
  I spent my life trying to find that and there are times that I
• 28:58
  failed miserably and
• 28:59
  there are times that I found this really sweet spot of health
• 29:02
  and I'm constantly
• 29:03
  trying to seek that but the other side of that I also want to
• 29:06
  keep pushing myself
• 29:07
  and challenging myself I'm 62 years old I have not done it all
• 29:11
  I have not learned
• 29:12
  all there is to know I still I still want to grow and I still
• 29:15
  want to develop and
• 29:16
  there's things that I want to do that I'm not able to do yet
• 29:19
  and I'm not done and
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: so that idea of just a constant pursuit
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: People, when they're afraid or when they settle,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: they miss out on so much.
• 29:29
  And so trying to ignite people and cast vision and challenge
• 29:33
  them and encourage
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: them that there's so much more.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what God means when he talks about abundant life.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Jesus calls us to that.
• 29:40
  He says,
• 29:41
  I have created you for so much and many of us just miss it
• 29:45
  because we settle.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And boy,
• 29:47
  my pursuit is I want that life that he created me for and I'm
• 29:51
  not gonna stop until
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've achieved that.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's no way to achieve that.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: that life is life eternal.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm pursuing that my whole life.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And boy, I don't want to miss anything that he has for me.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's something that most people think is a strength,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: but is actually like a liability in leadership?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I wish you'd have given me these questions ahead of time.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think the first thing that came to my mind is the word confidence.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think confidence is a strength.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Being confident in your own abilities,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: confidence in your leadership,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: confidence in your strength,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: that's a really important thing.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: However, confidence quickly leads to ego and pride.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And again,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: in my own life,
• 30:40
  there have been times that I'm so full of myself that I'm
• 30:44
  blinded by myself.
• 30:46
  And so there's a real balance between I'm a confident leader,
• 30:50
  I know what I'm able to do,
• 30:52
  also know what I'm not able to do or I know where I'm most
• 30:57
  vulnerable or where my
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: weaknesses are.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Understanding that and then holding it lightly.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I get in trouble when I think I can do it all.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And understanding that
• 31:07
  we're all vulnerable to that so yeah just the I don't know so
• 31:11
  much of life is
• 31:11
  managing managing tensions and balance the balancing acts and
• 31:16
  that's kind of like
• 31:17
  so much of what I want to talk to you about where it's like man
• 31:20
  I look at your life
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm inspired and encouraged and
• 31:25
  I don't know I look up to the way that you've made decisions
• 31:29
  about family and
• 31:30
  career and stuff in many ways but I think like yeah oftentimes
• 31:36
  our like greatest
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: strengths can be our our weaknesses too on some level
• 31:42
  yeah so I mean there's there's a lot of different pieces of you
• 31:45
  as a person but
• 31:47
  they're kind of holistically knit together but one of one of
• 31:51
  the other pieces of
• 31:52
  who you are is that you you help people kind of plan their
• 31:56
  lives out as well in
• 31:59
  like the leadership way but then you're also like a certified
• 32:03
  life coach and all
• 32:03
  the stuff that comes along with that and I'm curious like is
• 32:07
  there a question that
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: tends to like crack open
• 32:13
  understanding or awareness or bigger discussion when you're
• 32:18
  going through something
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: like that with someone.
• 32:21
  Yeah,
• 32:22
  I think years ago,
• 32:24
  the word convergence was just a word that kept coming to my
• 32:29
  mind.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: The convergence, the idea that things all happen for a reason.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: They come together.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's a point.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: I had a couple moments in my life of true convergence.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: One was
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, moving to Ecuador in 1994, you know, I love Latin America.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love I studied business.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love the Lord of Ministry.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love the youth ministry.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: The convergence was that's what I got to do.
• 32:53
  And I showed up in Ecuador like I get I get to build an
• 32:56
  organization in a place I
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: love in a language I love with people I love.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's convergence.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that I'd spent some time there as a kid.
• 33:05
  the fact that I'd been a youth pastor for 10 years,
• 33:07
  all those things convergence.
• 33:09
  So when I'm working with a leader,
• 33:10
  I use a thing called the Patterson life plan process.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there's two questions.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: The first question,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: and Matt,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: you've been through this process,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: but the first question is how did I end up here?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a question of perspective.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you look at your life and what led you here
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then the other question is, where do I want to go?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea that your past plays into your future.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I love when people, you know, we actually put that on the wall.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at your life and you realize,
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
• 33:39
  this thing that I experienced when I was 10 actually is
• 33:44
  something that I'm using
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: today in my job.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's convergence.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so the light comes on when people make that connection.
• 33:52
  And again,
• 33:53
  I don't think,
• 33:53
  I think God has us all,
• 33:55
  all of our stories are unique.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: God has us all on this unique journey.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: But when I did my life plan and to get certified,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I had to do one and I did it because I had to do it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't expect anything to come out of it.
• 34:08
  and there were some ahas in there that answered some questions
• 34:11
  that I've been
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: asking,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: some things that bubbled up of,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: oh my word,
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought about this thing that happened to me when I was a kid,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: how that fleshed out as an adult and it changed my perspective.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And again, so the question was, what keeps coming up?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: That convergence question of how our story,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: our past and our future,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: how they collide and how we actually are part of one big story
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a purpose and a plan to that.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: All of these,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have like my questions that I want to get to,
• 34:45
  but all of these could be the three hour conversation that we
• 34:48
  have where I think
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: that's like so much of the,
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm on the precipice and selfishly,
• 34:55
  I wanted to have this conversation to get advice in this season
• 35:00
  that I'm in of
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: is this a convergence of like,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 35:05
  I'm intentionally making the decision to push my life in a
• 35:09
  direction of those
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: things that I feel God calling me towards,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: but also that align with my affinities and my skill set.
• 35:19
  And then areas that I want to be challenged in more too and
• 35:22
  continue to learn and grow.
• 35:25
  And I think that's like one of the biggest questions that I
• 35:27
  want to work through in
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: this conversation is the tension of like,
• 35:32
  so many people in my life now and I feel like the world talks
• 35:37
  about this idea of
• 35:38
  like now is the time to grow and really like lean into career
• 35:43
  and grow wealth and
• 35:46
  compound like build the foundation to compound that in the
• 35:50
  future and really be
• 35:53
  like a hustler and live into career and stuff and then like
• 35:57
  there's this other
• 35:58
  tension in me that's like oh well but I'm starting a family and
• 36:02
  I want to be
• 36:02
  present with them and how do I like do marriage well and how do
• 36:07
  I do fatherhood
• 36:08
  well and like be a part of a church community and be present in
• 36:12
  that but then also
• 36:13
  like make a crap ton of money so that I can like live in and
• 36:18
  part of these tensions
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think are because of where we live and where we live
• 36:23
  want to live and stuff but I'm so curious like within all of
• 36:28
  that kind of looking
• 36:31
  at your own like your own experience as a young father like is
• 36:37
  there things you
• 36:38
  would have changed about the like that tension in your life at
• 36:43
  that time of being
• 36:44
  like a young dad because how old were the kids when you were in
• 36:48
  Ecuador building
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: like youth world and
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: When we moved back to our kids were five and two.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then our third daughter was born a couple years later.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here's the deal.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: As an old dad, I mean, perspective is horrible.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: There are a hundred things I would do differently.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And regrets.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I did spend time building ministry, building organization, traveling.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I also...
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: spent time with my family.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I there was always that there's always that tension.
• 37:23
  And it's it's really it's really interesting to look back now
• 37:26
  and ask those questions.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what would I change?
• 37:30
  There's there's a lot of things I would change things that as I
• 37:33
  look back now,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why they seem so important at the time,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: but they they were looking back is like,
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: that was a mistake.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: However, I also made some really good decisions around family.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I'd come back to the question of how do you define wealth?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm very wealthy.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:50
  Unfortunately,
• 37:51
  that's not necessarily financially,
• 37:53
  but wealth is family and relationships.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we're in a season of,
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:59
  being with our kids and their spouses and grandkids and a
• 38:02
  couple of new grandkids
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: and parents and extended family.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my word.
• 38:07
  While I did make mistakes,
• 38:09
  which we all do,
• 38:10
  I also,
• 38:11
  man,
• 38:12
  I'm the wealthiest guy you can find.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that we have deep relationships with our kids,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: we're building trust and bonds with our grandkids.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I wouldn't trade that for anything.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is financial wealth important?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Stability?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Career?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is family priorities important?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sure it is.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so that tension is something you have to live with.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would just say you can't sell out to one or the other.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have to live in the tension.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that tension will not go away.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you this, the tension never goes away.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to learn how to navigate that.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And Jane and I,
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 38:51
  we spent a lot of time trying to figure out what works for us
• 38:55
  in this season.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we made mistakes.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: I made mistakes about,
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: time away,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: travel,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: conquering new territory,
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: being on the road again,
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: that at the time felt like they were important.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Looking back, why were they so important?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: I regret some of them.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I also I never missed one of my kids birthdays.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so
• 39:13
  you know I didn't miss a tournament we we really worked hard to
• 39:18
  prioritize our
• 39:18
  family and had some incredible family time so again it's that
• 39:21
  it's a constant
• 39:22
  tension the dance yeah and again I would do things differently
• 39:25
  looking back but I
• 39:26
  can't and my advice is to you is understand the tension that's
• 39:30
  the first thing is
• 39:31
  it's always going to be there and pursue both with everything
• 39:34
  you've got and so but
• 39:36
  you don't sacrifice one for the other yeah I know people that
• 39:40
  made the conscious
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: decision to
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: And again,
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: in some of the worlds that we live and work in,
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: people that say,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to serve God when I retire,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: when I'm done.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to spend time with my family when I'm done working.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they keep putting it off and they never get to it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to live that way.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've had the blessing of being able to do both.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And again, God has provided in incredible ways.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm very wealthy in the sense of relationships and
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: quality of life and family.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh my gosh, so blessed.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so live in the tension and understand it's always going to be there.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so like,
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: what is,
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: and again,
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: you don't need to answer this if you don't want to,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: but what is one of those things you wish you did differently
• 40:31
  um sort of in that season of young fatherhood while you were
• 40:35
  hustling to to build
• 40:37
  the thing that that you're like I wish I had done that
• 40:40
  differently I yeah because
• 40:46
  it's a for me it's a really hard question to ask because you
• 40:49
  wouldn't be the person
• 40:50
  that you are now if you had done something different like you
• 40:54
  might still be
• 40:56
  you might never have gone to Ecuador or you might never and so
• 40:59
  I think that's part
• 41:00
  of the challenge in asking that question for me where it's sort
• 41:04
  of like well what
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: happened happened and so like
• 41:07
  i've made the most of the situation i'm in now or whatever well
• 41:10
  and some of that
• 41:10
  goes back to when we were we were newly married um there are a
• 41:14
  couple decisions
• 41:15
  that we made that were significant one is i i always wanted a
• 41:19
  job that that gave me
• 41:21
  some flexibility and the idea was i i want to be a present dad
• 41:25
  husband um i'm going
• 41:26
  to coach my kids baseball teams i gotta have flexibility and so
• 41:30
  i i wouldn't
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: consider a job that didn't have that two
• 41:33
  I didn't want to commute and so the idea of spending time on a
• 41:36
  freeway was time
• 41:38
  that I wasn't willing to give up and so we made that conscious
• 41:40
  which means we lived
• 41:41
  in some strange places but I wouldn't I knew that that was
• 41:46
  valuable time and I saw
• 41:47
  other people I had a friend we were young in our marriage who
• 41:53
  had a 90-minute
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: commute every day one way
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: and I just said, I'm never gonna, I wouldn't do that for the money.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I just made that, now for them, it worked.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I knew that I couldn't sacrifice that time.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Gina and I made decisions about career,
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: about her work,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: about my work,
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: about family,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: about how we're gonna manage that on one income,
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: on dual income.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you go on the mission field,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: it all changes,
• 42:17
  but we made some really clear decisions about what we would and
• 42:20
  wouldn't do that
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: kind of guided us.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean we did it all right.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the one thing for me came around travel.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And as we were trying to grow our influence globally,
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: it meant that I needed to spend more time on the road.
• 42:36
  And time away,
• 42:38
  I think looking back,
• 42:39
  I realized the load that was for Gina.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I did miss stuff with my kids.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when I was home, I was very present.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: And again, was able to schedule that.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: But looking back, I wish I wouldn't have done that.
• 42:51
  and I continued that for a long time and we also reap the
• 42:55
  benefits our families
• 42:57
  traveled around the world and we had some great vacations and
• 43:00
  we got a lot of
• 43:00
  airplane miles and that was awesome so there's benefits to it
• 43:05
  but as I look back
• 43:06
  that was the one thing at the time I thought it was really
• 43:09
  important and it wasn't
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: there was some ego and some pride there
• 43:14
  of you know my identity was what can I go conquer and and again
• 43:18
  that was where I
• 43:19
  kind of lost that vision again I fortunately I figured that out
• 43:21
  yeah but um I would
• 43:23
  change that okay so you I feel like you answered this a little
• 43:27
  bit but I'll I'll
• 43:28
  phrase it a different way um like 30 year old Russ is sitting
• 43:33
  across from you like
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: what would you tell him
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: now.
• 43:38
  And from what I understand you saying,
• 43:40
  part of that is like live in the tension.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Live in the tension.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Seek some really wise counsel.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Get some help.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid to ask for help.
• 43:53
  And then prioritize your family and make sure that you're not
• 43:59
  sacrificing family for career.
• 44:02
  And again,
• 44:03
  there are seasons and there's time that's going to pull and
• 44:06
  push.
• 44:07
  But acknowledging those seasons and understanding what works
• 44:11
  and what doesn't work.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will spend the rest of my life answering those questions.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck with that.
• 44:20
  That's what I'm so curious about with these conversations is
• 44:22
  like having them as
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: little time capsules to look back in 10,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: 15 years.
• 44:28
  be able to see oh well yeah that really stands the test of time
• 44:31
  or man that idea
• 44:32
  that I had is really off or whatever it is I also had I when I
• 44:38
  say seek counsel I
• 44:40
  had some people speak into my life early about that tension
• 44:44
  yeah and it really
• 44:44
  helped me yeah and they spoke wisdom and gave me some really
• 44:48
  good stuff that that I
• 44:50
  used and it really made a difference yeah and so find people
• 44:54
  like that that you
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: trust
• 44:57
  yeah yeah and and lean into that and and I'm glad I did and
• 45:01
  those people still walk
• 45:02
  with me yeah and that was really important that's been such a
• 45:05
  huge blessing I think
• 45:07
  I have like understood that lesson from an early age because I
• 45:12
  just talk about
• 45:13
  wealth like I think I've been blessed to have that wealth of
• 45:18
  counselors around like
• 45:20
  whether it's you or my other like one of my other mentors Jason
• 45:23
  or my dad or
• 45:26
  and I think because of my personality and wiring not being
• 45:29
  afraid to like ask for
• 45:31
  that from people where yeah if there's a question I have for a
• 45:36
  specific type of
• 45:37
  person or expertise or whatever like I'm not afraid to go like
• 45:41
  cold email someone
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: or whatever that looks like
• 45:44
  and within reason I think the other the bad side of that is
• 45:49
  like getting too many
• 45:50
  cooks in the kitchen and too much advice about stuff and not
• 45:54
  being like yeah so
• 45:56
  having a few counselors that are better trusted and working
• 46:00
  through that advice is
• 46:01
  advice it doesn't mean it's it's all valuable to you but at
• 46:06
  least you hear it and
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: again
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: When you can hear a lot of advice or a lot of input,
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: that's where you're going to make your best decisions.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And learning from people.
• 46:14
  And I often,
• 46:15
  I remember early on,
• 46:16
  I would ask people,
• 46:16
  you know,
• 46:17
  what do you struggle with?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: What mistakes have you made?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: I learn from people's mistakes and then try to avoid those same mistakes.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's where we learn.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 46:25
  that's part of the beauty of being the youngest and having two
• 46:29
  older brothers that
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: showed me many of the mistakes that they made.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: I still made
• 46:35
  lots of the same and lots of different mistakes than them but
• 46:39
  at least getting to
• 46:40
  observe how they made mistakes and and learn from them in some
• 46:43
  way yeah so we've
• 46:46
  kind of talked about like leader we've talked about like some
• 46:52
  of the life planning
• 46:53
  stuff that you do I kind of want to get into Barnabas a little
• 46:56
  bit where you where
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: you're still serving like ministry
• 47:00
  and then business leaders and again we talked about that like
• 47:04
  everybody is in
• 47:05
  ministry if you're following Jesus it might look more explicit
• 47:10
  or more implicit
• 47:11
  depending on the type of role that you have and the type of
• 47:14
  situation you're in
• 47:17
  but I'm curious for leaders in non-profit ministries
• 47:21
  specifically with Barnabas
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: kind of connecting the faith and business piece what do you see in that
• 47:28
  intersection that like a lot of people miss from a from a
• 47:33
  non-profit perspective or
• 47:35
  from a yeah like how first of all I'm curious how you interpret
• 47:40
  that question and
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: then yeah from like a
• 47:44
  let's go with that with from the ministry I mean the first
• 47:47
  again whether this
• 47:47
  answers your question or not what I heard was you know what
• 47:51
  what what do people
• 47:52
  miss I the foundation of the Barnabas group is relationship
• 47:58
  yeah and what many
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: nonprofit leaders or leaders or business leaders they focus on growth
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: and building.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do that, you tend to sacrifice relationship.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So a nonprofit leader,
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: if they're working on raising money,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: often they'll pursue the dollar instead of the relationship.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the beauty of Barnabas is we're selling relationship.
• 48:23
  And what I say over and over to nonprofit leaders is build a
• 48:26
  relationship.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: The funding may come, it may not come, but build a relationship.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's the value.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Bob Shank is one of the co-founders of Barnabas.
• 48:38
  He said,
• 48:39
  you know,
• 48:39
  a lot of people look at donors as a as a personal checkbook.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's what you want, that's all you're going to get.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so true.
• 48:47
  There are times that I've I've gone to raise money and I've
• 48:50
  gotten a check.
• 48:51
  and that's it and I've missed the opportunity for a
• 48:54
  relationship and I could have
• 48:56
  gotten so much more out of that relationship from their
• 48:59
  knowledge expertise but I
• 49:01
  was content with a check because that was my biggest need and
• 49:04
  so in our community
• 49:05
  and what I say to non-profits all the time is build a
• 49:08
  relationship don't go for the
• 49:10
  quick check go for the relationship because you'll get so much
• 49:15
  value from a
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: relationship that will help you
• 49:21
  Yeah that's fascinating to just kind of see from the ministry
• 49:25
  side because the
• 49:26
  metrics are and I think like the way probably more so in our
• 49:31
  like capitalistic
• 49:33
  mindset of like here's this need that I have how do you meet
• 49:39
  the need very
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: explicitly
• 49:41
  without kind of the relationship is like a byproduct of the
• 49:46
  donation or whatever it
• 49:47
  is but it I mean it definitely goes both ways to where it's
• 49:50
  like for Barnabas it's
• 49:54
  like how do business leaders share their their time and their
• 49:57
  talent with these
• 49:59
  ministries and not view it as like well I'm here to solve
• 50:03
  problems for them that's
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: a piece of it I think but even the relationship piece of like
• 50:08
  it goes both ways where like there's this mutual encouragement
• 50:13
  and mutual growth
• 50:14
  and to your point that learning that happens both ways where I
• 50:19
  didn't know anything
• 50:20
  about Kathy's house or whatever and then oh you hear John talk
• 50:23
  about what he's
• 50:24
  doing and you're like oh my gosh like that crazy that's crazy
• 50:28
  and how do I get
• 50:28
  involved in that and how do I start building relationship with
• 50:31
  him and all that
• 50:32
  kind of stuff where it's like there's these other crazy
• 50:36
  byproducts that happen
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: if we're kind of keeping relationship focused in that way.
• 50:41
  I think too it goes the other way too so if I'm a non-profit
• 50:45
  and there's a donor
• 50:47
  that makes a gift my choice is I can just accept that gift or I
• 50:52
  can pursue a
• 50:53
  relationship I mean some of my closest friends are people that
• 50:56
  began as donors and
• 50:58
  then became friends and again that value of relationship it's
• 51:01
  so important so it's
• 51:02
  not a it's a both and it's a how do you value that and model it
• 51:08
  and live it and
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: it's so important
• 51:10
  Just what you're telling me about life in general is that
• 51:12
  everything's gray and
• 51:16
  everything's in the middle and you're just constantly tensions
• 51:20
  that you're
• 51:21
  balancing and it's like man I like the black and white
• 51:25
  absolutes you know So I used
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: to teach about balance
• 51:29
  and I actually stole this illustration from Francis Chan and he
• 51:34
  talks about our
• 51:35
  pursuit of balance and used a broom and tried to balance it and
• 51:39
  talk about how do
• 51:39
  you find that balance and I had all the lessons on balance and
• 51:43
  I was talking with a
• 51:43
  friend of mine one time and we both came to the realization
• 51:47
  that God hasn't called
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: us to balance.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: And often when God shows up, it's when we're out of balance.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so the idea is how do we manage the extreme?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: And life is a bunch of extremes.
• 52:00
  I mean,
• 52:01
  we are constantly moving from this emotion to this emotion,
• 52:05
  from this pace to this pace.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: We are constantly and finding balance is elusive.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're trying to stay in the middle where it's safe,
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: we're missing what God has for us on the extreme.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: I want to find balance, but I don't want to stay there.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to continually come back to that.
• 52:21
  And that's the learning process is like finding the edges and
• 52:27
  then recentering on
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: the new insights from the learning.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't live at the extreme for a long period of time.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can't live there.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can be there, but if you stay there, you're in trouble.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is how can I embrace that
• 52:42
  how can God help me sustain and grow in that but then how do I
• 52:45
  come back to okay I
• 52:46
  made it through that what's the next thing he's got for me yeah
• 52:51
  that's where he
• 52:52
  wants us to live that's where he shows up if everything's
• 52:54
  balanced I don't need God
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: yeah
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's boring.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's boring.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Life is not boring.
• 53:02
  The adventure of life demands the swaying between the opposite
• 53:09
  extremes on some way.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Man.
• 53:11
  And there's been times in my life that I've lived in that
• 53:13
  extreme too long.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what leads to burnout and all that stuff.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not healthy.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whatever it is.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Understanding what that looks like, what it feels like.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know when I'm
• 53:25
  I'm in trouble and and learning what that's like and avoiding
• 53:28
  that or working away from that.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: as we as we close,
• 53:35
  I'm curious around the idea of calling and sort of like how you
• 53:43
  like how's your
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: sense of calling through ministry and career?
• 53:47
  Do you think that's something that like you construct or
• 53:51
  discover or is it both?
• 53:55
  I think it's both I think I mean there's been times in my life
• 54:00
  that I have felt
• 54:00
  100% called by God yeah like like physically called clarity of
• 54:08
  this is what you're
• 54:09
  supposed to do like going to Ecuador yeah there's been other
• 54:12
  times that it's been I
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: felt God said do what I created you to do go
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: without a lot of parameters.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel empowered in that too.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I'm like,
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to pursue this because I think this is what God made me like.
• 54:26
  And that's like the discernment of knowing who he is enough to
• 54:30
  like live into that.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: My prayer my entire life, probably since, probably in college.
• 54:40
  My prayer has been,
• 54:41
  Lord,
• 54:41
  close the door that you don't want me to walk through.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm dumb.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to push the doors open.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Make it so clear where you want me that I don't make a mistake.
• 54:52
  And I can tell you about a lot of closed doors over time that
• 54:55
  I've closed or He's closed.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: And my prayer is, man, make it so evident.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm going to want to do a lot.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to want to do a lot of different things.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to go after those things.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: And He's allowed me to do that or He's
• 55:07
  dragged me into them but boy if you don't want me doing
• 55:10
  something shut that door or
• 55:12
  make it so evident through other people through my wife in my
• 55:18
  heart make it so
• 55:19
  clear that I know I'm not supposed to do that make it clear I
• 55:23
  think that's the
• 55:24
  kindred spirit that I feel where it's like man I'm just so
• 55:27
  excited by so many
• 55:28
  things I want to do so many things it's like no you gotta where
• 55:32
  are the constraints
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: where's the sandbox that you play in dang
• 55:37
  Well I could talk another five hours about it but I'm curious
• 55:41
  um every I need to
• 55:43
  stop saying I'm curious you know I have these little sayings
• 55:45
  that I say literally
• 55:46
  every question um every episode um I I ask the previous guest
• 55:54
  what a question is
• 55:55
  they have for the next guest and so um the previous guest uh
• 56:00
  Katie who who runs
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: that um kind of brief non-profit um
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Her question to you is what brings you joy?
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: What brings you the most joy?
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a great question.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yesterday I was at an art show for my almost four-year-old grandson.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was there with a couple of my kids, my granddaughter, my wife,
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: and there's a moment of just pure joy.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Laughter, kicking a ball, family brings joy.
• 56:45
  And I've had a couple of those moments the last couple of weeks
• 56:48
  with family that
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful,
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: so thankful.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Gina and I are blessed and that brings me a lot of joy.
• 56:58
  But the other day I had a board meeting and I shared with our
• 57:00
  board,
• 57:01
  this is with Barnabas.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: I get joy when I see people
• 57:08
  understand what God created them for and walk into that and
• 57:12
  I've had some stories
• 57:13
  come up the last couple weeks of people that had some
• 57:16
  incredible things happen in
• 57:18
  their life and they're like wow God allowed me to use my gifts
• 57:22
  or my strengths or
• 57:23
  my skills and to see that joy come through them oh I love I
• 57:28
  love watching it
• 57:29
  whether I'm a part of it or not I love seeing that come on
• 57:32
  because I know what that
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: feels like yeah that brings me joy well you talk about
• 57:36
  like even the name Barnabas is like the encourager where it's
• 57:40
  like oh is that a way
• 57:41
  that you are wired to encourage people and then like I don't
• 57:45
  know that's the beauty
• 57:47
  of encouragement is that you oftentimes get encouraged through
• 57:50
  I used to think that
• 57:52
  I you know if I was going to really experience joy had to be
• 57:54
  something that I did
• 57:56
  and what I'm learning is boy there's people around me I can
• 58:00
  experience joy through
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: them
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: So whether that be a leader,
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: a nonprofit leader,
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: a business person in Barnabas or a four year old grandson,
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can get great joy through seeing them
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: use their gifts and their skills and what God has created them to do.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about me.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love that God allows us to experience that.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's such a,
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: I resonate with that idea,
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: even just with seeing my daughter do things that are,
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: that's a,
• 58:33
  it's been such a cool journey to see like the father's heart
• 58:37
  for me in like the
• 58:39
  father's heart that I have for my daughter where it's like oh I
• 58:44
  can relate to God
• 58:46
  the Father more because of like my relationship that he's
• 58:50
  blessed me with with my
• 58:51
  daughter where it's like I just get so much excitement when
• 58:54
  she's like listening
• 58:56
  and obeying and like we're doing something fun together or
• 58:58
  whatever it is yeah
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: what's a question that you have for our next guest
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to ask it now?
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a question.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's a lesson you learned from one of your greatest failures?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sweet.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta ask that because I've learned a lot from failure.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:20
  Well,
• 59:20
  I would argue you probably learned more from failure than from
• 59:23
  success.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: You bet.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I think acknowledging that is an opportunity to learn more.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Have you found in your experience that most people
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: are quick to acknowledge that or like slow to acknowledge that idea?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think both.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it depends on the person.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Some people run from it, avoid it, ignore it.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: Some people embrace it.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: It catches up to them anyway.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: And some people take some time.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 59:49
  I look back at things that happened 30 years ago and I'm still
• 59:52
  learning from
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: mistakes I made.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is just embracing that.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the fear of I don't want to fail.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Once you get past that,
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to fail.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: What do you learn from that?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: How does that help you?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: How does that propel you forward?
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: Jake asked a similar question.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: Kindred spirits there too.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks Matt.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for taking the time.